Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Barmby Rover on May 24, 2025, 03:52:56 pm
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1-0 up at half time, much the better side and Billy is there supporting them of course. I hope he has a good day.
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Wonder if molyneux has gone fmto watch being from sunderland and cane through there setup
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What’s up with Chris Wilders tracky bottoms? They’re like the ones my mum used to make me play out in, they’re two sizes two small with elasticated legs!
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What’s up with Chris Wilders tracky bottoms? They’re like the ones my mum used to make me play out in, they’re two sizes two small with elasticated legs!
Pretty obvious he's forgotten his kit and has had to get something out of lost property.
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What’s up with Chris Wilders tracky bottoms? They’re like the ones my mum used to make me play out in, they’re two sizes two small with elasticated legs!
Like the Glaswegians call them, jobbie catchers..
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1-0 up at half time, much the better side and Billy is there supporting them of course. I hope he has a good day.
Agreed and Sunderland were second best in their semi in my opinion. Question is, are Sheff U good enough to survive in the PL? Their strength is energy on the break, but does the level of individual skill match the quality needed to break down PL defences?
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1-0 up at half time, much the better side and Billy is there supporting them of course. I hope he has a good day.
Agreed and Sunderland were second best in their semi in my opinion. Question is, are Sheff U good enough to survive in the PL? Their strength is energy on the break, but does the level of individual skill match the quality needed to break down PL defences?
They need to get there first…
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Get in, 1-1
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1-0 up at half time, much the better side and Billy is there supporting them of course. I hope he has a good day.
Agreed and Sunderland were second best in their semi in my opinion. Question is, are Sheff U good enough to survive in the PL? Their strength is energy on the break, but does the level of individual skill match the quality needed to break down PL defences?
They need to get there first…
Agreed - Sunderland have woken up and are doing what SU were doing to them in the first half.
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1-2
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Still haven’t forgiven Sunderland for Eric Gates’ handball. The cheating get.
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Sunderland, the youngest team in the Championship. Experience hey.
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Better team overall for me. Blades should have been a few up after the first 30 mins. But Sunderland never gave up and even though their quality wasn't great all the way through, deserved the win.
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Yet another play off defeat for the Blades. Historic bottle jobs.
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Can see Sunderland getting fewer points than Southampton, nowhere near good enough for the PL.
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Leeds the only team of the 3 are going to have a chance of staying up
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Two brilliant goals for Sunderland, the last one was superb with the curl taking it just inside the post.
The young kid had not been on the pitch for long and was his last kick for Sunderland, having already signed for Brighton.
You couldn’t write that!
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Leeds the only team of the 3 are going to have a chance of staying up
I think Leeds have a chance due to having the RB brains behind them. Not impossible for Sunderland given how clever their recruitment is. Possible that they find some Prem ready players. Tough ask though obviously.
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I hope you're right Tommy. I haven't forgotten it was them that screwed up the paperwork on us signing a forward (lol. Who was it?!). By the time they'd put it right the deadline had passed. Incompetent tossers.
BobG
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Two brilliant goals for Sunderland, the last one was superb with the curl taking it just inside the post.
The young kid had not been on the pitch for long and was his last kick for Sunderland, having already signed for Brighton.
You couldn’t write that!
He had a grand total of 5 touches. Talk about an impact sub.
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Delighted about the result.
Sunderland have done it without parachute payments.
That and I can't abide wilder
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Brentford and Brighton have showed smart recruitment pays off, none of the teams going down tried that. Hard to say if there's a weak team for the 3 coming up to target nut oddly I think Sunderland might be best placed to do that.
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Wow, that would have been a decent double, Sunderland and Aberdeen both to win. I guess the Blades will have to do a Donny next season now. Have you got GM on speed dial Chris Wilder?
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Yet another play off defeat for the Blades. Historic bottle jobs.
Apparently it's now 10 play off attempts, inc 5 finals, zero wins.
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I hope you're right Tommy. I haven't forgotten it was them that screwed up the paperwork on us signing a forward (lol. Who was it?!). By the time they'd put it right the deadline had passed. Incompetent tossers.
BobG
Brentford and Brighton have showed smart recruitment pays off, none of the teams going down tried that. Hard to say if there's a weak team for the 3 coming up to target nut oddly I think Sunderland might be best placed to do that.
Will Grigg, Bob - or were you just being ironic?
Perhaps it’s a bit of an obsession with me, but individual skill in close ball control seems to be the quality that is present throughout the PL teams that survive and this is something which promoted teams struggle to find in enough of their players. Wilder’s style is based largely on 100% application and commitment, and that alone doesn’t work well against skilful PL defences. In contrast to Brentford and Brighton, the 3 relegated teams this season have only a smattering of men with the necessary level of skill. Sunderland were not all that different in their style to SU and they’ll have a way to go if they are going to survive. Leeds and Burnley have been there before and Leeds did it fairly impressively under Bielsa, so they ought to know what they are up against the second time around.
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I hope you're right Tommy. I haven't forgotten it was them that screwed up the paperwork on us signing a forward (lol. Who was it?!). By the time they'd put it right the deadline had passed. Incompetent tossers.
BobG
Brentford and Brighton have showed smart recruitment pays off, none of the teams going down tried that. Hard to say if there's a weak team for the 3 coming up to target nut oddly I think Sunderland might be best placed to do that.
Will Grigg, Bob - or were you just being ironic?
Perhaps it’s a bit of an obsession with me, but individual skill in close ball control seems to be the quality that is present throughout the PL teams that survive and this is something which promoted teams struggle to find in enough of their players. Wilder’s style is based largely on 100% application and commitment, and that alone doesn’t work well against skilful PL defences. In contrast to Brentford and Brighton, the 3 relegated teams this season have only a smattering of men with the necessary level of skill. Sunderland were not all that different in their style to SU and they’ll have a way to go if they are going to survive. Leeds and Burnley have been there before and Leeds did it fairly impressively under Bielsa, so they ought to know what they are up against the second time around.
Edit: it’s the 3rd time I suppose.
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I hope you're right Tommy. I haven't forgotten it was them that screwed up the paperwork on us signing a forward (lol. Who was it?!). By the time they'd put it right the deadline had passed. Incompetent tossers.
BobG
Brentford and Brighton have showed smart recruitment pays off, none of the teams going down tried that. Hard to say if there's a weak team for the 3 coming up to target nut oddly I think Sunderland might be best placed to do that.
Will Grigg, Bob - or were you just being ironic?
Perhaps it’s a bit of an obsession with me, but individual skill in close ball control seems to be the quality that is present throughout the PL teams that survive and this is something which promoted teams struggle to find in enough of their players. Wilder’s style is based largely on 100% application and commitment, and that alone doesn’t work well against skilful PL defences. In contrast to Brentford and Brighton, the 3 relegated teams this season have only a smattering of men with the necessary level of skill. Sunderland were not all that different in their style to SU and they’ll have a way to go if they are going to survive. Leeds and Burnley have been there before and Leeds did it fairly impressively under Bielsa, so they ought to know what they are up against the second time around.
It was Aiden O'Brien when the paperwork got cocked up.
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Just us flying the red and white flag in South Yorkshire then. As the saying goes…… f@ck em!
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Two brilliant goals for Sunderland, the last one was superb with the curl taking it just inside the post.
The young kid had not been on the pitch for long and was his last kick for Sunderland, having already signed for Brighton.
You couldn’t write that!
Be a special game for him and some of their fans if he plays for Brighton against them this coming season.
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Thanks DBR & Forsolong. I was being serious. I couldn't remember the name of the player and I resented their damaging my club.
BobG
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Blades are cursed!
Hope a promoted team or two stay up this time (not Leeds). Recruitment is key as mentioned but hopefully this time round they’ve learnt from the teams who think they can play Pep football because it’s their “philosophy”. Load of nonsense your fighting for your life from day 1.
Brentford are a great example of recruitment but also playing a way that allows you a chance in games. Early on that’s so important in the first season or two. Brighton weren’t a I e football team when they first went up either.
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Sunderland finished 16 points behind the Blades but they get promoted.
These play-offs can be cruel.
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Ah well. Never mind.
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Been out for a few in town, walked past the railway station as loads of Donny blades were emerging, Told a few of them they should be supporting the Rovers.
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Jobe Bellingham living off his brother's name wouldn't have known he was playing how he has been linked with Dortmund and even call up to the England squad baffles me!
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Been out for a few in town, walked past the railway station as loads of Donny blades were emerging, Told a few of them they should be supporting the Rovers.
Bet they appreciated that.
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Thanks DBR & Forsolong. I was being serious. I couldn't remember the name of the player and I resented their damaging my club.
BobG
Seems I was wrong anyway Bob - sorry.
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Jobe Bellingham living off his brother's name wouldn't have known he was playing how he has been linked with Dortmund and even call up to the England squad baffles me!
Came up through the ranks at Birmingham, like his brother. I suspect he was signed up there before his brother hit the big time.
Would you have said the same about Young Snod.?
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Thanks DBR & Forsolong. I was being serious. I couldn't remember the name of the player and I resented their damaging my club.
BobG
It was Rovers fault for leaving it until the 11th hour on deadline day.
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That was the season of the Will Grigg fiasco. We ended up signing Rodrigo Vilca having not seen him play. The less said about that window the better.
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Jobe Bellingham living off his brother's name wouldn't have known he was playing how he has been linked with Dortmund and even call up to the England squad baffles me!
Such a lazy thing to say that. He was quality yesterday. Comparing him with one of the best midfielders in the world that actually plays a different midfield role is crazy. He’s two years younger as well.
If you can perform like he has in the Championship at 19yo, clubs like Dortmund should be looking at him. He’s a player.
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Thanks DBR & Forsolong. I was being serious. I couldn't remember the name of the player and I resented their damaging my club.
BobG
Seems I was wrong anyway Bob - sorry.
Well not entirely wrong. We allegedly had an agreement with Sunderland to take Grigg, albeit a loan but I still think to this day Sunderland were wanting to offload him on a permanent basis after all his injury woes, and Grigg needed a new start, so both were prepared to run the clock down to deadlines day hoping for better offers. Late in the day, Rotherham stepped in for Grigg. At this point Sunderland then offered us Aiden O'Brien on loan instead but they submitted to wrong paperwork and it was too late to correct it.
Grigg only made 19 appearances for Rotherham scoring just 2 goals with injury plaguing him again.
Not good times for us or Wellens.
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Thanks DBR & Forsolong. I was being serious. I couldn't remember the name of the player and I resented their damaging my club.
BobG
It was Rovers fault for leaving it until the 11th hour on deadline day.
I'm sure we were chasing Grigg for weeks then he suddenly decided to go to Rotherham which is what caused it.
Not that it wasn't stupid to let him string us along for so long.
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A combination of things mean we won’t be in that position again. Predominantly the fact that McCann is much more aggressive in the market and won’t ever be kept waiting like that, and he doesn’t have Blunt holding him back like Wellens did.
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Thanks DBR & Forsolong. I was being serious. I couldn't remember the name of the player and I resented their damaging my club.
BobG
It was Rovers fault for leaving it until the 11th hour on deadline day.
I'm sure we were chasing Grigg for weeks then he suddenly decided to go to Rotherham which is what caused it.
Not that it wasn't stupid to let him string us along for so long.
Selling marquis at the last minute for peanuts, without a plan to replace him didn't help.
The david blunt years
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Thanks DBR & Forsolong. I was being serious. I couldn't remember the name of the player and I resented their damaging my club.
BobG
It was Rovers fault for leaving it until the 11th hour on deadline day.
I'm sure we were chasing Grigg for weeks then he suddenly decided to go to Rotherham which is what caused it.
Not that it wasn't stupid to let him string us along for so long.
Selling marquis at the last minute for peanuts, without a plan to replace him didn't help.
The david blunt years
Wrong period. Marquis had gone in 2019 to Portsmouth.
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And he wanted to go. Rovers got the best they couldin the circumstances at the time.
BobG
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Not at all. Because we didn't replace him did we.
Until we tried to sign a player from Sunderland at the last minute.
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Have it your way but between Marquis going, under Moore we did quite well. I still believe if the curtailed season hadn't finished when it did, we would have had a great chance of reaching the play offs, with Jacob Ramsey having a big impact supporting Fejiri Ockineberhe, Sadlier and Cole? up front. The following season, still behind closed doors we started well but tailed off before Moore left. Quite a bit of water passed under the bridge before Wellens and the Grigg situation arose (plus alot of isolation and vaccinations!)
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It's ok DBR. Tony subscribes to the Whig reinterpretation school of history..
BobG
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No, I'm not wrong though am I.
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No, I'm not wrong though am I.
The way you wrote your post about Marquis leaving at the last minute inferred it was the same window the Grigg situation. Plus, he wasn't sold for peanuts, he was sold for alot more than we paid for him after Portsmouth met the min value in his release clause....just as Preston did for Whitemen after previous bids were declined.
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Was Moore the least sustainable manager in recent years? Got us playing very well for a period but did so largely using players we didn’t own and left a shell of a squad when he f**ked off. The sustainability approach we adopted for a few seasons had a lot to do with our collapse but not actually owning players who could compete in League One was a serious issue also.
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No, I'm not wrong though am I.
The way you wrote your post about Marquis leaving at the last minute inferred it was the same window the Grigg situation. Plus, he wasn't sold for peanuts, he was sold for alot more than we paid for him after Portsmouth met the min value in his release clause....just as Preston did for Whitemen after previous bids were declined.
You privy to what exactly the release clauses were ? No, didn't think so .
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No, I'm not wrong though am I.
The way you wrote your post about Marquis leaving at the last minute inferred it was the same window the Grigg situation. Plus, he wasn't sold for peanuts, he was sold for alot more than we paid for him after Portsmouth met the min value in his release clause....just as Preston did for Whitemen after previous bids were declined.
You privy to what exactly the release clauses were ? No, didn't think so .
Thank you for answering for me.
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Silly billy DBR. Tony knows everything!
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I saw it mentioned somewhere that if blades went up they’d be 14 clubs owned by Americans and therefore enough to vote in changes we might not like.
Maybe for the best the blades stay down a bit longer!
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I saw it mentioned somewhere that if blades went up they’d be 14 clubs owned by Americans and therefore enough to vote in changes we might not like.
Maybe for the best the blades stay down a bit longer!
Really? hope not, don't want Time-outs, Cheerleaders or Offence and Defense swapping phases in the game thank you! Yanks go HOME!!!!
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Given that very few Yanks, Bill Gates excepted, are philanthropist, one really should ask, 'why do so many Yanks want to invest hundreds of millions in PL clubs?' Given that the answer isn't hard to work out, that should tell every single one of us exactly what the motivation , values and behaviours of the PL are now and forever will be.
BobG
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Given that very few Yanks, Bill Gates excepted, are philanthropist, one really should ask, 'why do so many Yanks want to invest hundreds of millions in PL clubs?' Given that the answer isn't hard to work out, that should tell every single one of us exactly what the motivation , values and behaviours of the PL are now and forever will be.
BobG
Are they that different to the time Labour supporting and one time devout Blairite Greg Dyke, very English duo David Dein and Trevor East originally set about awarding the largest pot of TV money to what was termed the big 5, of the top division?
Of course the separation of the then League 1, in terms of priorities and monetary rewards for the top teams being separated from the rest of the lower leagues started long before Murdoch offered more for games through Sky and not ITV, but lazy generalisations usually prevents anyone mentioning that.
Glad though Bob you understand the vast differences, brought into British culture that can be damaging to it and it's historically laid out principles when lazily introduced for what are the requirements of the richest and powerful.
But only "Yanks" have this detrimental effect eh?
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Christ Almighty.....
BobG
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Point of order: it was never “league 1”..
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Once again! Please can we keep politics out of this. Five minutes on the politics section of this forum is enough to cause a days worth of depression. Which is why I avoid it. But I’d still like to read opinions about the Rovers.
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Was Moore the least sustainable manager in recent years? Got us playing very well for a period but did so largely using players we didn’t own and left a shell of a squad when he f**ked off. The sustainability approach we adopted for a few seasons had a lot to do with our collapse but not actually owning players who could compete in League One was a serious issue also.
Not to forget he inherited a ‘shell of a squad’ as well.
The David Blunt years. Please let’s not go there again.
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Point of order: it was never “league 1”..
Sorry Division 1
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Christ Almighty.....
BobG
Maybe you couldn't mention your tiresome reductionist crap about everything being the fault of Murdoch?
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Because, unlike you, I have my beliefs and assumptions challenged, on a very regular basis, by some very bright people indeed. Just as an example one of them is a graduate of Oxford and is a long term Conservative member of Milton Keynes Council holding both executive and oversight responsibilities.The others are all not backwards in coming forwards either. If I say something that is emotionally driven, without a factual and/or evidence basis, then I get shot down very rapidly indeed.
In other words, what I say is tested against evidence, fact and logic too. You, on the other hand, wouldn't last 90 seconds. You don't think.You emote. And it is consistently utter drivel. I've rarely seen so much rubbish out of the mouth of one single person.
BobG
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Been out for a few in town, walked past the railway station as loads of Donny blades were emerging, Told a few of them they should be supporting the Rovers.
Being football fans doesn’t mean we’re automatically obligated to support our local team. Loyalty has to be earned — through consistent performance. That kind of connection takes years to build and can be lost far more quickly.
Sheffield United is a club that’s consistently striving for a place in the Premier League. They’re not just celebrating a return to League One after years languishing in the EFL’s lowest tier. That kind of mediocrity, driven by a poorly thought-out “sustainability” strategy, is exactly what’s held Doncaster Rovers back for the last 3 years.
With an owner unwilling to invest enough to compete for top-tier football, Doncaster is unlikely to ever reach the heights achieved by the Blades. We are lucky to have their cast-offs in Billy Sharp who is one of the most talented players ever in a Rovers’ shirt.
I bet their fans found your comment hilarious.
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Aaaah he's back!
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cp34kj9p8xno (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cp34kj9p8xno)
There is some evidence that we are historically under-achieving given the size of the city we live in. We've picked this topic up a few times in the years I've been on here, and whilst there's reasons we're probably underachievers (proximity to big city teams, corrupt ownership in the 1990s, lack of disposable income in the 1980s) it doesn't fully explain the longer historical and persistent nature of our under achievement. Maybe if we could have held on when we got to the Championship and those last day relegations and failed experiments hadn't happened we could have consolidated upwards? But even that doesn't explain 150 years of bang-averageness.
We're miles bigger than Burnley, Bournemouth, Portsmouth - so club-bashing aside, there is something in the Donny water keeping us down! Forget Andrew Tate, let's have a doctoral thesis about this!!
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It's an interesting one Reg. Whenever someone puts Donny down as a small town I do pull out the population statistic and point out from Stainforth I can get to Meadowhall quicker than I can get to other parts of Doncaster. But from a Rovers point of view I do think it's a red herring. Assuming that includes Mexborough, Conisbrough etc I would never consider them an area that would pull in Rovers fans. I work in Thorne, lots of people there would say they're from Thorne not Doncaster, hence the large Leeds following.
Obviously, we lost a generation of fans too which doesn't help. I'm 44. I went to school with a minute number of Rovers fans - they were seen as a bit of a joke club at times amongst younger fans at that times.
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Been out for a few in town, walked past the railway station as loads of Donny blades were emerging, Told a few of them they should be supporting the Rovers.
Being football fans doesn’t mean we’re automatically obligated to support our local team. Loyalty has to be earned — through consistent performance. That kind of connection takes years to build and can be lost far more quickly.
Sheffield United is a club that’s consistently striving for a place in the Premier League. They’re not just celebrating a return to League One after years languishing in the EFL’s lowest tier. That kind of mediocrity, driven by a poorly thought-out “sustainability” strategy, is exactly what’s held Doncaster Rovers back for the last 3 years.
With an owner unwilling to invest enough to compete for top-tier football, Doncaster is unlikely to ever reach the heights achieved by the Blades. We are lucky to have their cast-offs in Billy Sharp who is one of the most talented players ever in a Rovers’ shirt.
I bet their fans found your comment hilarious.
And that’s your opinion, other people might have a different one to yours but feel free to preach your gospel for a while
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A very, very sizeable reason for the descent from the second division to the fourth, and at least a decade of subsequent mediocrity came in the shape of Hubert Bates. It was he who pushed out Peter Doherty. He was therefore also responsible for the exodus of good players that followed. Once Rovers were in the fourth division it was his stewardship that saw us stay there. Even when he was removed from the Chair he stayed on the Board - until 1973 or 1974 I think it was. His baleful influence sank the club. Despite occasional upturns the club only really came back to life when John Ryan arrived. We all owe John a very great deal therefore no matter what we might think of some of the more questionable episodes.
BobG
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A very, very sizeable reason for the descent from the second division to the fourth, and at best more than a decade of subsequent mediocrity came in the shape of Hubert Bates. It was he pushed out Peter Doherty. He was therefore also responsible for the exodus of good players that followed. Once Rovers were in the fourth division it was his stewardship that saw us stay there. Even when he was removed from the Chair he stayed on the Board - until 1973 or 1974 I think. His baleful influence sank the club. Despite occasional upturns it only came back to real life when John Ryan arrived. We all owe him a very great deal therefore no matter what we might think of some of the more questionable episodes.
BobG
I hadn't realised the indifference went back that far.
Picking two at random, I'd love to know what %age of Barnsley and Stockport people support their local club. I know Barnsley had a season in the sun but that was 25 years ago. I guess I want to know what makes people gravitate towards/away from their local team.
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It's hard to grasp - looking at Ipswich which his half the size of Donny, they've had 26 seasons of top flight football, including last year, and average attendances above the 15k mark consistently for 70 years.
We've had our benefactor, but as he was a millionaire rather than a billionaire, we've never pushed on massively, but the people of Donny still haven't got fully behind the team. I'm a similar age to you Noel, and I was one of two Donny fans in my secondary school. But even now my kids are two of maybe a dozen 'proper' Donny fans at their school - which is probably the root of the issue.
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Been out for a few in town, walked past the railway station as loads of Donny blades were emerging, Told a few of them they should be supporting the Rovers.
Being football fans doesn’t mean we’re automatically obligated to support our local team. Loyalty has to be earned — through consistent performance. That kind of connection takes years to build and can be lost far more quickly.
Sheffield United is a club that’s consistently striving for a place in the Premier League. They’re not just celebrating a return to League One after years languishing in the EFL’s lowest tier. That kind of mediocrity, driven by a poorly thought-out “sustainability” strategy, is exactly what’s held Doncaster Rovers back for the last 3 years.
With an owner unwilling to invest enough to compete for top-tier football, Doncaster is unlikely to ever reach the heights achieved by the Blades. We are lucky to have their cast-offs in Billy Sharp who is one of the most talented players ever in a Rovers’ shirt.
I bet their fans found your comment hilarious.
Blimey calm down.
It was a light hearted finish from me after discussing with half a dozen of them the fact that they should have been 4-0 up before Sunderland scored.
Maybe I should have posted this earlier.
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It's hard to grasp - looking at Ipswich which his half the size of Donny, they've had 26 seasons of top flight football, including last year, and average attendances above the 15k mark consistently for 70 years.
We've had our benefactor, but as he was a millionaire rather than a billionaire, we've never pushed on massively, but the people of Donny still haven't got fully behind the team. I'm a similar age to you Noel, and I was one of two Donny fans in my secondary school. But even now my kids are two of maybe a dozen 'proper' Donny fans at their school - which is probably the root of the issue.
If you live in Ipswich how far do you travel to watch a big club?
It is the same with Norwich, you have a captive audience so to speak if you want to watch a high standard game.
Lack of investment in 1966 and selling Laurie Sheffield held us back after a great season the year before when crowds were booming at the end of the season.
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Tell me, seriously Michael Shaw, what your qualifications and experience are that allows you state, categorically, that the Rovers sustainability strategy is "poorly thought out" and "mediocre". Seriously, if you can justify those statements with evidence and proper qualifications then I'd take them a lot more seriously than I do right now. At the moment I'm a follower of Hitchens Razor and Professor Cox. For the former:
"An assertion made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence"
and for the latter:
"The problem with today’s world is that everyone believes they have the right to express their opinion AND have others listen to it. The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense".
Over to you
BobG
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But only 'Yanks' have this detrimental effect eh?
not your comment I know, Smyth - but the Swiss present a far more existential threat to the game as we know it than the Americans - well, one of them, in particular...
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Been out for a few in town, walked past the railway station as loads of Donny blades were emerging, Told a few of them they should be supporting the Rovers.
Being football fans doesn’t mean we’re automatically obligated to support our local team. Loyalty has to be earned — through consistent performance. That kind of connection takes years to build and can be lost far more quickly.
Sheffield United is a club that’s consistently striving for a place in the Premier League. They’re not just celebrating a return to League One after years languishing in the EFL’s lowest tier. That kind of mediocrity, driven by a poorly thought-out “sustainability” strategy, is exactly what’s held Doncaster Rovers back for the last 3 years.
With an owner unwilling to invest enough to compete for top-tier football, Doncaster is unlikely to ever reach the heights achieved by the Blades. We are lucky to have their cast-offs in Billy Sharp who is one of the most talented players ever in a Rovers’ shirt.
I bet their fans found your comment hilarious.
Interesting first paragraph, for me and not having parents remotely interested in Football I went to Rovers for a couple of games in 1974, as an 11 year old on my own. I loved footy and was keen on Liverpool, probably because everyone who was interested in footy at Town Fields school supported Leeds.
The first Home game of the 1975/76 season I went v Cambridge and Rovers lost 2-0, however I vividly remember coming out of the ground and thinking ‘I’m going to support this club’, and went to every home game that season.
It mattered not about any loyalty, couldn’t care less whoever ran the club, didn’t matter we weren’t that good (though Stan Anderson gave us a good season) I quite simply was hooked and have never swayed. Supporting a club gets in the blood and nothing shifts it.
My 2 sons in Australia are mad fans (have had season tickets when in Donny) and my other lad in Newquay (whose never lived any where near Donny) is as passionate as I ever was, and will drive up from Cornwall to take in matches.
So really, loyalty doesn’t have to be gained, it takes a game to get you connected, and it’s never lost, consistent performances or not.
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Been out for a few in town, walked past the railway station as loads of Donny blades were emerging, Told a few of them they should be supporting the Rovers.
Being football fans doesn’t mean we’re automatically obligated to support our local team. Loyalty has to be earned — through consistent performance. That kind of connection takes years to build and can be lost far more quickly.
Sheffield United is a club that’s consistently striving for a place in the Premier League. They’re not just celebrating a return to League One after years languishing in the EFL’s lowest tier. That kind of mediocrity, driven by a poorly thought-out “sustainability” strategy, is exactly what’s held Doncaster Rovers back for the last 3 years.
With an owner unwilling to invest enough to compete for top-tier football, Doncaster is unlikely to ever reach the heights achieved by the Blades. We are lucky to have their cast-offs in Billy Sharp who is one of the most talented players ever in a Rovers’ shirt.
I bet their fans found your comment hilarious.
Interesting first paragraph, for me and not having parents remotely interested in Football I went to Rovers for a couple of games in 1974, as an 11 year old on my own. I loved footy and was keen on Liverpool, probably because everyone who was interested in footy at Town Fields school supported Leeds.
The first Home game of the 1975/76 season I went v Cambridge and Rovers lost 2-0, however I vividly remember coming out of the ground and thinking ‘I’m going to support this club’, and went to every home game that season.
It mattered not about any loyalty, couldn’t care less whoever ran the club, didn’t matter we weren’t that good (though Stan Anderson gave us a good season) I quite simply was hooked and have never swayed. Supporting a club gets in the blood and nothing shifts it.
My 2 sons in Australia are mad fans (have had season tickets when in Donny) and my other lad in Newquay (whose never lived any where near Donny) is as passionate as I ever was, and will drive up from Cornwall to take in matches.
So really, loyalty doesn’t have to be gained, it takes a game to get you connected, and it’s never lost, consistent performances or not.
Great post RiS, your beginning of the journey is more or less the same as mine, except mine began a decade or so earlier.
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Tell me, seriously Michael Shaw, what your qualifications and experience are that allows you state, categorically, that the Rovers sustainability strategy is "poorly thought out" and "mediocre". Seriously, if you can justify those statements with evidence and proper qualifications then I'd take them a lot more seriously than I do right now. At the moment I'm a follower of Hitchens Razor and Professor Cox. For the former:
"An assertion made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence"
and for the latter:
"The problem with today’s world is that everyone believes they have the right to express their opinion AND have others listen to it. The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense".
Over to you
BobG
My evidence Bobg is there for all to see if you pay attention.
With Ryan, Watson and Bramall as owners we rose up to the Championship. With just Bramall we have been in League Two for three years. Isn’t it obvious. With massive funding Wrexham proved what funding can do, and with one owner controlling the purse strings Doncaster will never be a Wrexham.
Collapsing down into the lowest tier is hardly going promote support for the club and that support needs to be rebuilt.
I have said similar time and time again, but if some can’t absorb common sense then there is nothing more I can do.
I am calm, because I don’t have a season ticket and don’t personally attend many matches so I am not as emotional as most posters on here. You just spout off your opinion, like others that live on this forum with a massive number of posts, but don’t provide intelligent arguments yourself against views like mine.
We were once a Championship side and look where we have been for three years. Fact.
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It's hard to grasp - looking at Ipswich which his half the size of Donny, they've had 26 seasons of top flight football, including last year, and average attendances above the 15k mark consistently for 70 years.
We've had our benefactor, but as he was a millionaire rather than a billionaire, we've never pushed on massively, but the people of Donny still haven't got fully behind the team. I'm a similar age to you Noel, and I was one of two Donny fans in my secondary school. But even now my kids are two of maybe a dozen 'proper' Donny fans at their school - which is probably the root of the issue.
I totally agree RIS.
Ipswich have not fallen into league two like Doncaster has. If we had sustained a high level of success like Ipswich we could also probably pull in a higher fan base. We are not consistent enough to maintain interest from floating supporters. We need to give fans something to watch and that is not league two football.
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Been out for a few in town, walked past the railway station as loads of Donny blades were emerging, Told a few of them they should be supporting the Rovers.
Being football fans doesn’t mean we’re automatically obligated to support our local team. Loyalty has to be earned — through consistent performance. That kind of connection takes years to build and can be lost far more quickly.
Sheffield United is a club that’s consistently striving for a place in the Premier League. They’re not just celebrating a return to League One after years languishing in the EFL’s lowest tier. That kind of mediocrity, driven by a poorly thought-out “sustainability” strategy, is exactly what’s held Doncaster Rovers back for the last 3 years.
With an owner unwilling to invest enough to compete for top-tier football, Doncaster is unlikely to ever reach the heights achieved by the Blades. We are lucky to have their cast-offs in Billy Sharp who is one of the most talented players ever in a Rovers’ shirt.
I bet their fans found your comment hilarious.
Interesting first paragraph, for me and not having parents remotely interested in Football I went to Rovers for a couple of games in 1974, as an 11 year old on my own. I loved footy and was keen on Liverpool, probably because everyone who was interested in footy at Town Fields school supported Leeds.
The first Home game of the 1975/76 season I went v Cambridge and Rovers lost 2-0, however I vividly remember coming out of the ground and thinking ‘I’m going to support this club’, and went to every home game that season.
It mattered not about any loyalty, couldn’t care less whoever ran the club, didn’t matter we weren’t that good (though Stan Anderson gave us a good season) I quite simply was hooked and have never swayed. Supporting a club gets in the blood and nothing shifts it.
My 2 sons in Australia are mad fans (have had season tickets when in Donny) and my other lad in Newquay (whose never lived any where near Donny) is as passionate as I ever was, and will drive up from Cornwall to take in matches.
So really, loyalty doesn’t have to be gained, it takes a game to get you connected, and it’s never lost, consistent performances or not.
Same here My Widowed Mum wasn’t interested in anything other than Scraping by! I went to my first Rovers game in early 1973 we lost 1-2 to Brentford.
Most of the lads T Adwick comp were either Leeds or Man Utd , several also went to Rovers so I went with them.
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It's hard to grasp - looking at Ipswich which his half the size of Donny, they've had 26 seasons of top flight football, including last year, and average attendances above the 15k mark consistently for 70 years.
We've had our benefactor, but as he was a millionaire rather than a billionaire, we've never pushed on massively, but the people of Donny still haven't got fully behind the team. I'm a similar age to you Noel, and I was one of two Donny fans in my secondary school. But even now my kids are two of maybe a dozen 'proper' Donny fans at their school - which is probably the root of the issue.
I totally agree RIS.
Ipswich have not fallen into league two like Doncaster has. If we had sustained a high level of success like Ipswich we could also probably pull in a higher fan base. We are not consistent enough to maintain interest from floating supporters. We need to give fans something to watch and that is not league two football.
Ipswich would not have lost a generation of fans in the late 70’s however, given they were one of the country’s top sides then and competing in Europe.
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Tell me, seriously Michael Shaw, what your qualifications and experience are that allows you state, categorically, that the Rovers sustainability strategy is "poorly thought out" and "mediocre". Seriously, if you can justify those statements with evidence and proper qualifications then I'd take them a lot more seriously than I do right now. At the moment I'm a follower of Hitchens Razor and Professor Cox. For the former:
"An assertion made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence"
and for the latter:
"The problem with today’s world is that everyone believes they have the right to express their opinion AND have others listen to it. The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense".
Over to you
BobG
My evidence Bobg is there for all to see if you pay attention.
With Ryan, Watson and Bramall as owners we rose up to the Championship. With just Bramall we have been in League Two for three years. Isn’t it obvious. With massive funding Wrexham proved what funding can do, and with one owner controlling the purse strings Doncaster will never be a Wrexham.
Collapsing down into the lowest tier is hardly going promote support for the club and that support needs to be rebuilt.
I have said similar time and time again, but if some can’t absorb common sense then there is nothing more I can do.
I am calm, because I don’t have a season ticket and don’t personally attend many matches so I am not as emotional as most posters on here. You just spout off your opinion, like others that live on this forum with a massive number of posts, but don’t provide intelligent arguments yourself against views like mine.
We were once a Championship side and look where we have been for three years. Fact.
That's partly true, but also for every example you give there are umpteen others that don't support your argument. Carlisle relegated, Scunthorpe once had bigger budgets than us, and there are numerous examples higher up the league, clubs that have spent millions not going anywhere.
Last season, League 1, 2nd biggest spenders in the transfer market, behind Birmingham, were Huddersfield who spent over £5m and finished 10th, Peterborough Utd who were the 4th biggest spenders and finished 18th. One of my favourites is PNE in the Championship whose owner pumps in £17m a season to finish just above relegation.
Club finances are a mess, and the argument isn't about sustainability as you mention it because its more about keeping the debt pile as low as possible for most clubs.
Because Wrexham have done what they’ve done the EFL have changed the financial rules for next season because operating like they have done isn't good for competition, and certainly will affect the game at lower levels in a very negative fashion.
The Football Distress Survey for last season goes into a lot of detail, but also had this to say about Wrexham and clearly states that the message is not a positive one;
“The revival of Wrexham from non-league status to the Championship has seemed like a fairy tale, but it has not been done without huge media deals to creatively generate additional revenues and good management. It is a fantastic story for the game here, but we need to ensure a spotlight is shone on the more typical, struggling lower league clubs before they are pushed over the brink.”
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Tell me, seriously Michael Shaw, what your qualifications and experience are that allows you state, categorically, that the Rovers sustainability strategy is "poorly thought out" and "mediocre". Seriously, if you can justify those statements with evidence and proper qualifications then I'd take them a lot more seriously than I do right now. At the moment I'm a follower of Hitchens Razor and Professor Cox. For the former:
"An assertion made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence"
and for the latter:
"The problem with today’s world is that everyone believes they have the right to express their opinion AND have others listen to it. The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense".
Over to you
BobG
My evidence Bobg is there for all to see if you pay attention.
With Ryan, Watson and Bramall as owners we rose up to the Championship. With just Bramall we have been in League Two for three years. Isn’t it obvious. With massive funding Wrexham proved what funding can do, and with one owner controlling the purse strings Doncaster will never be a Wrexham.
Collapsing down into the lowest tier is hardly going promote support for the club and that support needs to be rebuilt.
I have said similar time and time again, but if some can’t absorb common sense then there is nothing more I can do.
I am calm, because I don’t have a season ticket and don’t personally attend many matches so I am not as emotional as most posters on here. You just spout off your opinion, like others that live on this forum with a massive number of posts, but don’t provide intelligent arguments yourself against views like mine.
We were once a Championship side and look where we have been for three years. Fact.
That's partly true, but also for every example you give there are umpteen others that don't support your argument. Carlisle relegated, Scunthorpe once had bigger budgets than us, and there are numerous examples higher up the league, clubs that have spent millions not going anywhere.
Last season, League 1, 2nd biggest spenders in the transfer market, behind Birmingham, were Huddersfield who spent over £5m and finished 10th, Peterborough Utd who were the 4th biggest spenders and finished 18th. One of my favourites is PNE in the Championship whose owner pumps in £17m a season to finish just above relegation.
Club finances are a mess, and the argument isn't about sustainability as you mention it because its more about keeping the debt pile as low as possible for most clubs.
Because Wrexham have done what they’ve done the EFL have changed the financial rules for next season because operating like they have done isn't good for competition, and certainly will affect the game at lower levels in a very negative fashion.
The Football Distress Survey for last season goes into a lot of detail, but also had this to say about Wrexham and clearly states that the message is not a positive one;
“The revival of Wrexham from non-league status to the Championship has seemed like a fairy tale, but it has not been done without huge media deals to creatively generate additional revenues and good management. It is a fantastic story for the game here, but we need to ensure a spotlight is shone on the more typical, struggling lower league clubs before they are pushed over the brink.”
Agree with what you’re saying but that figure for Preston is surely an exaggeration.
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Preston had an operating loss of £20.2m in 2022, £14.4m in 2023 and £14.4m again in 2024. Over the last decade their wage bill has more than tripled and they’ve gone from an operating profit of £17.4m to an operating loss of £14.4m.
Since 2020 they have booked a cumulative loss of £90.3m. This has been financed fairy equally by equity (£50m of new shares issued to the owners) and debt (loans of £48.6m to the owners). They make barely any profit ever from player sales and have been net spenders in the last four seasons.
Best thing you can say about their model is that they are starting to get a grip on wages, which were at 196pc of income in 2021 and have come down gradually to ‘only’ 136pc of income in 2024. Their average wage is only £10.5k.
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Preston had an operating loss of £20.2m in 2022, £14.4m in 2023 and £14.4m again. in 2024. Over the last decade their wage bill has more than tripled and they’ve gone from an operating profit of £17.4m to a loss of £14.4m. Since 2020 they have booked a cumulative loss of £90.3m.
That’s not the same as what the owner puts in, though.
Just had a look myself and in the 2022/23 figures £9.5m was put in and in the 2023/24 it was £9.8m. 2024/25 figures aren’t publicly available yet. Still eye watering figures.
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This thread has gone way off track!!
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Tell me, seriously Michael Shaw, what your qualifications and experience are that allows you state, categorically, that the Rovers sustainability strategy is "poorly thought out" and "mediocre". Seriously, if you can justify those statements with evidence and proper qualifications then I'd take them a lot more seriously than I do right now. At the moment I'm a follower of Hitchens Razor and Professor Cox. For the former:
"An assertion made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence"
and for the latter:
"The problem with today’s world is that everyone believes they have the right to express their opinion AND have others listen to it. The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense".
Over to you
BobG
My evidence Bobg is there for all to see if you pay attention.
With Ryan, Watson and Bramall as owners we rose up to the Championship. With just Bramall we have been in League Two for three years. Isn’t it obvious. With massive funding Wrexham proved what funding can do, and with one owner controlling the purse strings Doncaster will never be a Wrexham.
Collapsing down into the lowest tier is hardly going promote support for the club and that support needs to be rebuilt.
I have said similar time and time again, but if some can’t absorb common sense then there is nothing more I can do.
I am calm, because I don’t have a season ticket and don’t personally attend many matches so I am not as emotional as most posters on here. You just spout off your opinion, like others that live on this forum with a massive number of posts, but don’t provide intelligent arguments yourself against views like mine.
We were once a Championship side and look where we have been for three years. Fact.
Your evidence has as many holes as Swiss Cheese.
Yes, we were a Championship but you forgot to mention we couldn't sustain it and why.
Ipswich and Wrexham have a far bigger catchment area and can call upon 30k attendances. If you haven't watched any of the many videos about why the Wrexham ownership chose them above other clubs including Hartlepool. They did their homework. Both those clubs potential income would blow ours out of the water.
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Preston had an operating loss of £20.2m in 2022, £14.4m in 2023 and £14.4m again. in 2024. Over the last decade their wage bill has more than tripled and they’ve gone from an operating profit of £17.4m to a loss of £14.4m. Since 2020 they have booked a cumulative loss of £90.3m.
That’s not the same as what the owner puts in, though.
Just had a look myself and in the 2022/23 figures £9.5m was put in and in the 2023/24 it was £9.8m. 2024/25 figures aren’t publicly available yet. Still eye watering figures.
Whichever way you look at it though the owners are underwriting a loss of £90m in the last 5 years.
It was covered in an EFL report a couple of years ago when an overseas buyer was asking how much it would cost to own and run an EFL club. I’ll see if I can find it.
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And Michael Shaw used a helluva lot of words to not answer the question. Hardly surprising though. It's always the empty vessels that make the most noise.
BobG
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If I just say "BobG you are pompous literary muppet” then I haven’t said enough. If I explain myself you say “ Michael Shaw used a helluva lot of words to not answer the question”.
Since when were Hitchens Razor and Professor Cox Rovers fans, or got anything to do with following Doncaster Rovers? And you accuse me of using lots of words!! And why do you think I have to explain anything to you or anyone else? We are all entitled to our own opinions.
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Still using plenty of words to avoid answering the question...
Crack on mate. We know what you are: an empty vessel that just goes on and on making the same fatuous noises - never constructive, never offering evidence, always running away.
BobG