Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: ChrisBx on July 04, 2025, 12:23:13 pm
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Official page teasing a signing on X...
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Who who charlie crew?
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New contract for Broadbent.
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George Broadbent signs a two year contract extension. Includes the option of a third year.
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George Broadbent signs a two year contract extension. Includes the option of a third year.
Struggling to understand this one.
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George Broadbent signs a two year contract extension. Includes the option of a third year.
Struggling to understand this one.
Why? He has become a very good player for us.
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George Broadbent signs a two year contract extension. Includes the option of a third year.
Struggling to understand this one.
His contract was due to expire next season.
He’s at an age where you’d want to protect the club against losing him for nowt.
He’s still underrated by a lot of people.
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George Broadbent signs a two year contract extension. Includes the option of a third year.
Struggling to understand this one.
Agree, I'm yet to be convinced. The most compelling case I've heard for our faith in Broadbent is 'Grant seems to like him', but for me he's too slow, doesn't win enough of the ball in the middle, can't get around the pitch enough, doesn't contribute to the attacking phase, and makes a lot of mistakes giving the ball away - he must have cost us half a dozen goals in about 8 games before Christmas, including in the cup v Palace. We should be setting our sights way higher if we want to compete in Lg1.
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George Broadbent signs a two year contract extension. Includes the option of a third year.
Struggling to understand this one.
But then we'd be saying that when he plays well this season and left for nothing at the end of the season a la Olowu.
Good business for me. I feel like I'm in the minority for seeing him as a cracking player both now and going forward. He's still learning his role and for me will become even better.
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Should secure him a loan deal to Eastleigh in January anyway :coat:
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I thought we gave him a new contract a few months back? Have I got that wrong?
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I thought we gave him a new contract a few months back? Have I got that wrong?
We took the option on him as he was out of contract at the end of last season otherwise.
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Yes he's improved, but scares me when he's on the ball - got a massive mistake in him!
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Made strides to improve last season, has he improved enough to be effective at the higher level this season?
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Improved last season yeah but he's not good enough for higher than league 2, had Westbrooke put in some of the performances he did last season following game he would be out the squad.
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He has improved a lot. Good to see him sign. Not everyone agrees with others about players. But I am glad he has signed.
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Thought he was really good last season and grew into his more defensive role
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Very good second half of last season, couple of MOM performances or very close. At 24, if a player like that keeps improving I am very happy with this contract.
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When we had a poll on the player of the season, I mentioned Broadbent as the most improved player.
As others have said, he's underrated but thankfully not undervalued by GM and the club. In his position, which GM saw his potential, we take for granted his pass completion rate. Yes, he made a couple of clangers but I think you need to go a way back to find his last. He has learned on the job and for me, he's not too far behind where Whitemen was when he adapted to the same role. His passing has become sharper, more reliable and progressive. I think we also underestimate his physical presence. You don't have to be going to ground and be a tough tackler in the modern game but read the game and force the opposition to make mistakes.
Yes, he needs to show he can cope with the step up where he'll meet plenty of opposing players of good quality.
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I think he and Grant realised his limitations and he was better in the second half of the season playing a more conservative role- doesn’t mean he won’t improve further but for time being imo it does place more onus on having a Charlie Crew type to link midfield with attack
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Looking at some of the comments on here, and the opinions on where we'll finish in the league, I'd say some people have very little faith in GM.
Trust.
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Count me in your minority Chris, he can go a long way yet.
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I think he and Grant realised his limitations and he was better in the second half of the season playing a more conservative role- doesn’t mean he won’t improve further but for time being imo it does place more onus on having a Charlie Crew type to link midfield with attack
Bailey & Broadbent can't play together in midfield for me , no surprise we looked miles better when Bailey dropped to CB and we had the energy of Crew in midfield leading the press for the run in.
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I'm actually very pleased about this. I think George is constantly improving with experience and played a very significant role in last season's success. I also think League One will suit him better than Two. He's also a saleable asset so makes sense to keep him tied up.
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Limitations ? I think Grant looks for potential strengths more than limitations and nurtures players accordingly .
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Looking at some of the comments on here, and the opinions on where we'll finish in the league, I'd say some people have very little faith in GM.
Trust.
The doubters were all proved wrong ( me as well ) so my belief is Grant n Co have a reasonable budget this time around and they’ve used it to bring in players of ability and the right age to settle in . It was a strange season last time around and I doubt there were many who could have seen its ending with us on top of. So League one is more competitive and we start with a similar amount of players like last year to bed in and gel , but Grants approach seems to be long term with small adjustments for each game until he sees a grove forming in the style of play he’s looking for .
His choice of low underwhelming preseason matches suggests that he’s attempting not to put too much emphasis of selection too soon and just get team fitness high from the out set . IMO Exeter will be hit hard from the outset and players will be asked to make a statement early about claiming their places in the first team ..
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He moves like a double decker bus at times and I think he will be completely outclassed against better opposition and we will regret this extension like we did Close.
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This will be an interesting thread to resurrect in 10 months time.
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I'm saying nowt because he's got a tune out of Jamie Sterry.
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Not just a tune - he is the best player we have in my opinion.
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Not just a tune - he is the best player we have in my opinion.
Hes in the top 2. Proper footballer.
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Grant not ruling out further singings later on in the window but sounds happy with the squad he’s got in his latest interview.
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The 2025 Close/Westbrooke award goes to… George Broadbent. That’s slightly tongue in cheek, but he won’t be seeing that 3rd year of his contract if we are still in L1. Can understand Grant not wanting his contract to run down this season though. I’m not sure he will end up being first choice this season though.
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Made strides to improve last season, has he improved enough to be effective at the higher level this season?
Bang on.
If he improves as much this year as he did last year, this'll be the best business of the summer.
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He did improve a lot towards the end of the season.
We’d have got criticism for extending Olowu contract at one point and in the end he improved to a point where he wasn’t going to stick around.
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The 2025 Close/Westbrooke award goes to… George Broadbent. That’s slightly tongue in cheek, but he won’t be seeing that 3rd year of his contract if we are still in L1. Can understand Grant not wanting his contract to run down this season though. I’m not sure he will end up being first choice this season though.
Thats how i see it but would love to be proved wrong. Barely good enough for league 2.
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The 2025 Close/Westbrooke award goes to… George Broadbent. That’s slightly tongue in cheek, but he won’t be seeing that 3rd year of his contract if we are still in L1. Can understand Grant not wanting his contract to run down this season though. I’m not sure he will end up being first choice this season though.
Made strides to improve last season, has he improved enough to be effective at the higher level this season?
Bang on.
If he improves as much this year as he did last year, this'll be the best business of the summer.
Choices eh...
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If a loanee had come in this January and played like Broadbent did in that period everybody would be waxing lyrical and demanding we signed him.
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If a loanee had come in this January and played like Broadbent did in that period everybody would be waxing lyrical and demanding we signed him.
A player did come in on loan, played better than Broadbent and we are wanting him back on loan in the league above.
I think if it was Broadbent who’d of come in, we’d be thinking we’d need to sign someone better after winning promotion.
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I have seen quite a lot of praise offered after some performances which doesn’t seem to have been merited. In some games his defensive play, his lack of willingness to tackle, has been obvious and the opposition have exploited it.
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I thought he improved after Crew settled into that Bailey position, with Bailey covering centre back. It’s a good move by the Club because he still has plenty of room for further improvement in him. That said, he’s not the sort of lad, yet, who is that vital ‘cog’ in our midfield - that part has not arrived yet!
It’ll be interesting to see what sort of impression Gott has this season. There will be lots of energy in that department at least.
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If a loanee had come in this January and played like Broadbent did in that period everybody would be waxing lyrical and demanding we signed him.
No they wouldn’t..
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Players in his position after go unseen when they play well, or affect the team positively, because it’s not so noticeable. Yet they get criticised for a poor game, or the odd missed pass or tackle - perhaps more than any other on the pitch.
Another example of this was Paul Keegan. Did the graft but didn’t get the credit from many fans.
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Players in his position after go unseen when they play well, or affect the team positively, because it’s not so noticeable. Yet they get criticised for a poor game, or the odd missed pass or tackle - perhaps more than any other on the pitch.
Another example of this was Paul Keegan. Did the graft but didn’t get the credit from many fans.
Yes and every team needs that type of player too.
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Players in his position after go unseen when they play well, or affect the team positively, because it’s not so noticeable. Yet they get criticised for a poor game, or the odd missed pass or tackle - perhaps more than any other on the pitch.
Another example of this was Paul Keegan. Did the graft but didn’t get the credit from many fans.
That’s the biggest cliche in football.
A lot go unseen because they do very little. Think of the good ones that play in that deeper role… Yes, loads spring to mind didn’t they… the ones that you remember doing loads of good stuff in games… doesn’t even have to be Keane and Viera you think of. Been the good ones at lower levels, Ryan Stirk, Louis Reed, Arthur Read, Brian Stock for us back in the day. He didn’t go unnoticed did he? Why? Because he did loads of passing and won the ball back regularly.
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We do need cover and competition in that position though. Not sure what the intentions are with Westbrooke. He can play that role but lacks the game time so he could be that understudy without having to go into the market again.
Crew would be a dynamic addition to the midfield although perhaps better further up the pitch. In time, he could probably adapt to any role but he's still developing physically and needs to be nurtured. Probably one who McCanns prepared to wait for.
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Players in his position after go unseen when they play well, or affect the team positively, because it’s not so noticeable. Yet they get criticised for a poor game, or the odd missed pass or tackle - perhaps more than any other on the pitch.
Another example of this was Paul Keegan. Did the graft but didn’t get the credit from many fans.
That’s the biggest cliche in football.
A lot go unseen because they do very little. Think of the good ones that play in that deeper role… Yes, loads spring to mind didn’t they… the ones that you remember doing loads of good stuff in games… doesn’t even have to be Keane and Viera you think of. Been the good ones at lower levels, Ryan Stirk, Louis Reed, Arthur Read, Brian Stock for us back in the day. He didn’t go unnoticed did he? Why? Because he did loads of passing and won the ball back regularly.
Disagree. They go unnoticed not because they don’t do much, but because folks aren’t remembering the mundane stuff, more the attacking play and any errors.
Of course, there are more dynamic and exciting players as you’ve noted.
But I stand by my point.
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We do need cover and competition in that position though. Not sure what the intentions are with Westbrooke. He can play that role but lacks the game time so he could be that understudy without having to go into the market again.
Crew would be a dynamic addition to the midfield although perhaps better further up the pitch. In time, he could probably adapt to any role but he's still developing physically and needs to be nurtured. Probably one who McCanns prepared to wait for.
Hope your right DBR cos like you say I feel he could be the final piece in the jigsaw
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Players in his position after go unseen when they play well, or affect the team positively, because it’s not so noticeable. Yet they get criticised for a poor game, or the odd missed pass or tackle - perhaps more than any other on the pitch.
Another example of this was Paul Keegan. Did the graft but didn’t get the credit from many fans.
That’s the biggest cliche in football.
A lot go unseen because they do very little. Think of the good ones that play in that deeper role… Yes, loads spring to mind didn’t they… the ones that you remember doing loads of good stuff in games… doesn’t even have to be Keane and Viera you think of. Been the good ones at lower levels, Ryan Stirk, Louis Reed, Arthur Read, Brian Stock for us back in the day. He didn’t go unnoticed did he? Why? Because he did loads of passing and won the ball back regularly.
How are his stats looking Gaz? Not only as a stand alone back end of season but since he joined. Do the stats back up the seemed improvement or do they tell a different story?
Personally I think he is a good player. I'm not so sure how much development is left in a 24yr old. Considering PK and Crew came in and performed how they did at a much younger age.
I'm on the fence with the contract but in essence it's 1yr extn past what he already had? Feels like GM is trying to protect the club in terms of assets rather than constant turnover for nothing.
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Players in his position after go unseen when they play well, or affect the team positively, because it’s not so noticeable. Yet they get criticised for a poor game, or the odd missed pass or tackle - perhaps more than any other on the pitch.
Another example of this was Paul Keegan. Did the graft but didn’t get the credit from many fans.
That’s the biggest cliche in football.
A lot go unseen because they do very little. Think of the good ones that play in that deeper role… Yes, loads spring to mind didn’t they… the ones that you remember doing loads of good stuff in games… doesn’t even have to be Keane and Viera you think of. Been the good ones at lower levels, Ryan Stirk, Louis Reed, Arthur Read, Brian Stock for us back in the day. He didn’t go unnoticed did he? Why? Because he did loads of passing and won the ball back regularly.
How are his stats looking Gaz? Not only as a stand alone back end of season but since he joined. Do the stats back up the seemed improvement or do they tell a different story?
Personally I think he is a good player. I'm not so sure how much development is left in a 24yr old. Considering PK and Crew came in and performed how they did at a much younger age.
I'm on the fence with the contract but in essence it's 1yr extn past what he already had? Feels like GM is trying to protect the club in terms of assets rather than constant turnover for nothing.
Data says he’s not very good.
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Question for Gaz, not having a dig but genuinely interested:
Couple of scenarios, firstly a team breaks forward quickly, tricky winger about to cross. Big no 9 moves towards the far post dragging both centre halves, no 10 runs in from midfield and scores at the near post. I can see how the team might get a stat, and the winger and the no 10, but what stat does the no 9 get for playing a huge part in the goal?
Other scenario, same as above but another defender tracks the no 10. Winger in two minds floats a cross straight to the goalie. What stats do the individual defenders get when they don’t touch the ball?
What stats illustrate game-effecting things like movement and positioning? aspects of the game that we can see and appreciate as spectators, but can’t be measured.?
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Gaz, data is not everything it is obvious some eyes disagree with the data because they see the circumstances the data is accompanied with.
Its purely a numbers game to be used in conjunction with an experienced eye with who puts the data in.
In most cases its still somebody ticking a box, its good information to be used in conjunction with other information.
I don't believe teams like Manchester United don't rely heavily on the system or any Premiership side, but they still can't get 11 to play in a cohesive way.
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Players in his position after go unseen when they play well, or affect the team positively, because it’s not so noticeable. Yet they get criticised for a poor game, or the odd missed pass or tackle - perhaps more than any other on the pitch.
Another example of this was Paul Keegan. Did the graft but didn’t get the credit from many fans.
That’s the biggest cliche in football.
A lot go unseen because they do very little. Think of the good ones that play in that deeper role… Yes, loads spring to mind didn’t they… the ones that you remember doing loads of good stuff in games… doesn’t even have to be Keane and Viera you think of. Been the good ones at lower levels, Ryan Stirk, Louis Reed, Arthur Read, Brian Stock for us back in the day. He didn’t go unnoticed did he? Why? Because he did loads of passing and won the ball back regularly.
How are his stats looking Gaz? Not only as a stand alone back end of season but since he joined. Do the stats back up the seemed improvement or do they tell a different story?
Personally I think he is a good player. I'm not so sure how much development is left in a 24yr old. Considering PK and Crew came in and performed how they did at a much younger age.
I'm on the fence with the contract but in essence it's 1yr extn past what he already had? Feels like GM is trying to protect the club in terms of assets rather than constant turnover for nothing.
Data says he’s not very good.
That's an interpretation of the data. There is no context for us to understand what stats over what period bring you to that conclusion.
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Question for Gaz, not having a dig but genuinely interested:
Couple of scenarios, firstly a team breaks forward quickly, tricky winger about to cross. Big no 9 moves towards the far post dragging both centre halves, no 10 runs in from midfield and scores at the near post. I can see how the team might get a stat, and the winger and the no 10, but what stat does the no 9 get for playing a huge part in the goal?
Other scenario, same as above but another defender tracks the no 10. Winger in two minds floats a cross straight to the goalie. What stats do the individual defenders get when they don’t touch the ball?
What stats illustrate game-effecting things like movement and positioning? aspects of the game that we can see and appreciate as spectators, but can’t be measured.?
That's tracking data, it's where the big money is but it is potentially available to professional football clubs. Majority of us mere mortals will only ever be able to access event data.
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Gaz, data is not everything it is obvious some eyes disagree with the data because they see the circumstances the data is accompanied with.
Its purely a numbers game to be used in conjunction with an experienced eye with who puts the data in.
In most cases its still somebody ticking a box, its good information to be used in conjunction with other information.
I don't believe teams like Manchester United don't rely heavily on the system or any Premiership side, but they still can't get 11 to play in a cohesive way.
Jim Ratcliffe came out about a year ago saying that they're shit with data. They're definitely not in the same league as Liverpool, Brighton, Bournemouth, Brentford, etc in that regard.
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Players in his position after go unseen when they play well, or affect the team positively, because it’s not so noticeable. Yet they get criticised for a poor game, or the odd missed pass or tackle - perhaps more than any other on the pitch.
Another example of this was Paul Keegan. Did the graft but didn’t get the credit from many fans.
That’s the biggest cliche in football.
A lot go unseen because they do very little. Think of the good ones that play in that deeper role… Yes, loads spring to mind didn’t they… the ones that you remember doing loads of good stuff in games… doesn’t even have to be Keane and Viera you think of. Been the good ones at lower levels, Ryan Stirk, Louis Reed, Arthur Read, Brian Stock for us back in the day. He didn’t go unnoticed did he? Why? Because he did loads of passing and won the ball back regularly.
How are his stats looking Gaz? Not only as a stand alone back end of season but since he joined. Do the stats back up the seemed improvement or do they tell a different story?
Personally I think he is a good player. I'm not so sure how much development is left in a 24yr old. Considering PK and Crew came in and performed how they did at a much younger age.
I'm on the fence with the contract but in essence it's 1yr extn past what he already had? Feels like GM is trying to protect the club in terms of assets rather than constant turnover for nothing.
Data says he’s not very good.
You dont need data to see that.
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Question for Gaz, not having a dig but genuinely interested:
Couple of scenarios, firstly a team breaks forward quickly, tricky winger about to cross. Big no 9 moves towards the far post dragging both centre halves, no 10 runs in from midfield and scores at the near post. I can see how the team might get a stat, and the winger and the no 10, but what stat does the no 9 get for playing a huge part in the goal?
Other scenario, same as above but another defender tracks the no 10. Winger in two minds floats a cross straight to the goalie. What stats do the individual defenders get when they don’t touch the ball?
What stats illustrate game-effecting things like movement and positioning? aspects of the game that we can see and appreciate as spectators, but can’t be measured.?
It’s difficult to quantify every single action 100% of the time. AI used to track player movements now so that’s bringing about improvements in that area. Also how much players team mates improve when player ‘X” is on the pitch etc etc.
I think people think about data in the wrong way. Data is used by everyone every day, in all walks of life. I’m talking about analytics really, that’s essentially how you use that raw data to give it a predictive element. This can be used to predict how good teams/ players will be.
The level of analytics being used now is mind blowing. It’s at a level that a man in the street would struggle to understand. I don’t mind saying I probably know more than most but I’m a million miles away from the quants and analysts that produce these models. We are talking top class former Oxford/ Cambridge men that would likely be working on the analytics programme for a space travel company if they weren’t working in football. The level that’s been set in football analytics now is mind blowing. It’s not just people looking down a list of stats and seeing how many shots someone has had or how many headers they have won. People are literally predicting the future using historical information.
Research USG in Belgium. They don’t then employ a scout. Just gone from the second division in Belgium to the top level and won the league. They’ve qualified for the CL group stages on a mid table budget for the league.
All by picking players off a spreadsheet that were playing in leagues nobody else was really looking at.
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There are lots of psychological factors that determine how well an individual and team can perform each season / month / week that surely even the best analytics model can’t factor in. E.g. dressing room culture, team-mate relationships, family life.
I think the club has put a big onus on making sure there is a really strong culture which can help the team perform greater than the sum of its parts.
Will there come a point where we reach peak-level analytics that most clubs are using data in the same way so that they have to look for that extra advantage somewhere more ‘old-fashioned’?
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"People are literally predicting the future using historical information"
I remember discussing this with an old boss of mine as we started to explore the use of historical data to improve the future.
He said, while using stats are beneficial, you can't drive a car just using the rear view mirror. I thought that was a great analogy.
It comes down to how well (or poorly) people use and interpret data. As ncRover says, there are so many other factors which go into managing performance.
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It's very true it comes down to what data and how to interpret it. Rovers some way behind when they tried telling us James Brown was a better player than Kyle Knoyle.
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"People are literally predicting the future using historical information"
I remember discussing this with an old boss of mine as we started to explore the use of historical data to improve the future.
He said, while using stats are beneficial, you can't drive a car just using the rear view mirror. I thought that was a great analogy.
It comes down to how well (or poorly) people use and interpret data. As ncRover says, there are so many other factors which go into managing performance.
Within a football environment (and gambling which is the area I have a big involvement in) you don’t have to be perfect, you just have to find a way of being better than the others. At this point in time, the easiest way to get that edge as a football club, is to use a very smart data led model.
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Information is power
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Question for Gaz, not having a dig but genuinely interested:
Couple of scenarios, firstly a team breaks forward quickly, tricky winger about to cross. Big no 9 moves towards the far post dragging both centre halves, no 10 runs in from midfield and scores at the near post. I can see how the team might get a stat, and the winger and the no 10, but what stat does the no 9 get for playing a huge part in the goal?
Other scenario, same as above but another defender tracks the no 10. Winger in two minds floats a cross straight to the goalie. What stats do the individual defenders get when they don’t touch the ball?
What stats illustrate game-effecting things like movement and positioning? aspects of the game that we can see and appreciate as spectators, but can’t be measured.?
It’s difficult to quantify every single action 100% of the time. AI used to track player movements now so that’s bringing about improvements in that area. Also how much players team mates improve when player ‘X” is on the pitch etc etc.
I think people think about data in the wrong way. Data is used by everyone every day, in all walks of life. I’m talking about analytics really, that’s essentially how you use that raw data to give it a predictive element. This can be used to predict how good teams/ players will be.
The level of analytics being used now is mind blowing. It’s at a level that a man in the street would struggle to understand. I don’t mind saying I probably know more than most but I’m a million miles away from the quants and analysts that produce these models. We are talking top class former Oxford/ Cambridge men that would likely be working on the analytics programme for a space travel company if they weren’t working in football. The level that’s been set in football analytics now is mind blowing. It’s not just people looking down a list of stats and seeing how many shots someone has had or how many headers they have won. People are literally predicting the future using historical information.
Research USG in Belgium. They don’t then employ a scout. Just gone from the second division in Belgium to the top level and won the league. They’ve qualified for the CL group stages on a mid table budget for the league.
All by picking players off a spreadsheet that were playing in leagues nobody else was really looking at.
Thanks, I understand where you are coming from, but is that in depth data available for league 1 and 2 clubs.?
I certainly think that analytics is valuable for the coaching staff, but for us mere fans watching the game, I want to see passion, excitement, commitment etc. I want to see us play against statistically better players and teams, where all the analytics say we should lose, but we don’t, because of getting better luck, defending valiantly, making the fewer chances we get count.
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Gaz, which League One team has best data / analytics team and set up?
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Question for Gaz, not having a dig but genuinely interested:
Couple of scenarios, firstly a team breaks forward quickly, tricky winger about to cross. Big no 9 moves towards the far post dragging both centre halves, no 10 runs in from midfield and scores at the near post. I can see how the team might get a stat, and the winger and the no 10, but what stat does the no 9 get for playing a huge part in the goal?
Other scenario, same as above but another defender tracks the no 10. Winger in two minds floats a cross straight to the goalie. What stats do the individual defenders get when they don’t touch the ball?
What stats illustrate game-effecting things like movement and positioning? aspects of the game that we can see and appreciate as spectators, but can’t be measured.?
It’s difficult to quantify every single action 100% of the time. AI used to track player movements now so that’s bringing about improvements in that area. Also how much players team mates improve when player ‘X” is on the pitch etc etc.
I think people think about data in the wrong way. Data is used by everyone every day, in all walks of life. I’m talking about analytics really, that’s essentially how you use that raw data to give it a predictive element. This can be used to predict how good teams/ players will be.
The level of analytics being used now is mind blowing. It’s at a level that a man in the street would struggle to understand. I don’t mind saying I probably know more than most but I’m a million miles away from the quants and analysts that produce these models. We are talking top class former Oxford/ Cambridge men that would likely be working on the analytics programme for a space travel company if they weren’t working in football. The level that’s been set in football analytics now is mind blowing. It’s not just people looking down a list of stats and seeing how many shots someone has had or how many headers they have won. People are literally predicting the future using historical information.
Research USG in Belgium. They don’t then employ a scout. Just gone from the second division in Belgium to the top level and won the league. They’ve qualified for the CL group stages on a mid table budget for the league.
All by picking players off a spreadsheet that were playing in leagues nobody else was really looking at.
Thanks, I understand where you are coming from, but is that in depth data available for league 1 and 2 clubs.?
I certainly think that analytics is valuable for the coaching staff, but for us mere fans watching the game, I want to see passion, excitement, commitment etc. I want to see us play against statistically better players and teams, where all the analytics say we should lose, but we don’t, because of getting better luck, defending valiantly, making the fewer chances we get count.
You get really good data down to the NL North/South now. Probably wasn’t the case 2 years ago.
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Does anyone know how much work we do on the analytical side when it comes to player evaluation/acquisition?
Seems to me the clubs that punch above their weight these days go in for this stuff heavily now.
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"People are literally predicting the future using historical information"
I remember discussing this with an old boss of mine as we started to explore the use of historical data to improve the future.
He said, while using stats are beneficial, you can't drive a car just using the rear view mirror. I thought that was a great analogy.
It comes down to how well (or poorly) people use and interpret data. As ncRover says, there are so many other factors which go into managing performance.
Every tool that helps you drive such as maps, road signs, GPS, and your own memory exists because someone used historical data.
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Getting back to the main point of this thread it seems to me that we are just 1 or 2 signings, i.e. a creative midfielder and / or a striker, away from a squad that can compete at the top end of League 1. No sign of Charlie Crew as wanted by many of us but this raises the question does our Grant reckon Broadbent alone is the man to grow into this job ? I recall when we first signed Ben Whiteman and how he subsequently developed into the playmaker role so magnificently. Is our business done already and that's all we get, for now ? This is where the Manager factor really differntiates and it could be that our Manager knows exactly how to form a style of play that transforms this squad into a playing unit that performs in a manner that is greater than the sum of its parts.
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We can’t be relying just on Broadbent, as an injury, loss of form or suspension could scupper us. I think he’ll bring another one in and it’ll be a loan.
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"People are literally predicting the future using historical information"
I remember discussing this with an old boss of mine as we started to explore the use of historical data to improve the future.
He said, while using stats are beneficial, you can't drive a car just using the rear view mirror. I thought that was a great analogy.
It comes down to how well (or poorly) people use and interpret data. As ncRover says, there are so many other factors which go into managing performance.
Within a football environment (and gambling which is the area I have a big involvement in) you don’t have to be perfect, you just have to find a way of being better than the others. At this point in time, the easiest way to get that edge as a football club, is to use a very smart data led model.
Gaz: can you bear with me whilst I try to understand the fundamentals of this.
You tell us that “good” data, by which I assume you mean fairly extensive data, is available down to NL level and you point to the value of good modelling of such data which seems indispensable. So in preparation for a match you would analyse the data held on the opposition and match it against typical data accumulated by your own team and assess strengths and weaknesses and best strategy. That would be via the employment of your modelling tools.
There would be gaps in the data, but what you held would largely cover common ground and you would assume that the most essential areas were incorporated. If either your modelling or your data was superior or more extensive to that employed and held by the opposition you would have the tactical advantage even if your players were less skilful or not as industrious.
When you refer us to the phenomenal results of the Belgian team are you saying the club just looked at individual player stats in isolation? Because if you are, would there not be doubt as to whether they would be able to combine to be successful as a team? Perhaps once together, somehow their individual attributes blended more or less perfectly which could sound like it may have been by good fortune. It does prompt the question that the standard of data collection and modelling of the rest of the members of the league in question must have been rather unsatisfactory, especially as they would have players more talented in the general sense of the word.
Furthermore, you would think that their results would be seen as achieved unconventionally yet apparently not countered. Perhaps this was some time ago when data collection and modelling was not as widespread.
Am I missing something?
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"People are literally predicting the future using historical information"
I remember discussing this with an old boss of mine as we started to explore the use of historical data to improve the future.
He said, while using stats are beneficial, you can't drive a car just using the rear view mirror. I thought that was a great analogy.
It comes down to how well (or poorly) people use and interpret data. As ncRover says, there are so many other factors which go into managing performance.
Within a football environment (and gambling which is the area I have a big involvement in) you don’t have to be perfect, you just have to find a way of being better than the others. At this point in time, the easiest way to get that edge as a football club, is to use a very smart data led model.
Gaz: can you bear with me whilst I try to understand the fundamentals of this.
You tell us that “good” data, by which I assume you mean fairly extensive data, is available down to NL level and you point to the value of good modelling of such data which seems indispensable. So in preparation for a match you would analyse the data held on the opposition and match it against typical data accumulated by your own team and assess strengths and weaknesses and best strategy. That would be via the employment of your modelling tools.
There would be gaps in the data, but what you held would largely cover common ground and you would assume that the most essential areas were incorporated. If either your modelling or your data was superior or more extensive to that employed and held by the opposition you would have the tactical advantage even if your players were less skilful or not as industrious.
When you refer us to the phenomenal results of the Belgian team are you saying the club just looked at individual player stats in isolation? Because if you are, would there not be doubt as to whether they would be able to combine to be successful as a team? Perhaps once together, somehow their individual attributes blended more or less perfectly which could sound like it may have been by good fortune. It does prompt the question that the standard of data collection and modelling of the rest of the members of the league in question must have been rather unsatisfactory, especially as they would have players more talented in the general sense of the word.
Furthermore, you would think that their results would be seen as achieved unconventionally yet apparently not countered. Perhaps this was some time ago when data collection and modelling was not as widespread.
Am I missing something?
Yeah, missing loads.
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"People are literally predicting the future using historical information"
I remember discussing this with an old boss of mine as we started to explore the use of historical data to improve the future.
He said, while using stats are beneficial, you can't drive a car just using the rear view mirror. I thought that was a great analogy.
It comes down to how well (or poorly) people use and interpret data. As ncRover says, there are so many other factors which go into managing performance.
Within a football environment (and gambling which is the area I have a big involvement in) you don’t have to be perfect, you just have to find a way of being better than the others. At this point in time, the easiest way to get that edge as a football club, is to use a very smart data led model.
Gaz: can you bear with me whilst I try to understand the fundamentals of this.
You tell us that “good” data, by which I assume you mean fairly extensive data, is available down to NL level and you point to the value of good modelling of such data which seems indispensable. So in preparation for a match you would analyse the data held on the opposition and match it against typical data accumulated by your own team and assess strengths and weaknesses and best strategy. That would be via the employment of your modelling tools.
There would be gaps in the data, but what you held would largely cover common ground and you would assume that the most essential areas were incorporated. If either your modelling or your data was superior or more extensive to that employed and held by the opposition you would have the tactical advantage even if your players were less skilful or not as industrious.
When you refer us to the phenomenal results of the Belgian team are you saying the club just looked at individual player stats in isolation? Because if you are, would there not be doubt as to whether they would be able to combine to be successful as a team? Perhaps once together, somehow their individual attributes blended more or less perfectly which could sound like it may have been by good fortune. It does prompt the question that the standard of data collection and modelling of the rest of the members of the league in question must have been rather unsatisfactory, especially as they would have players more talented in the general sense of the word.
Furthermore, you would think that their results would be seen as achieved unconventionally yet apparently not countered. Perhaps this was some time ago when data collection and modelling was not as widespread.
Am I missing something?
Yeah, missing loads.
If you are not being purely dismissive of the points I am making I shall interpret this as requiring a very complicated explanation. If, as you say, great academic brains are employed to support the gambling industry, the science is probably beyond the intellectual capacity of people like me. To accept stats to the extent that they are promulgated by some as the ultimate definitive reality of the game seems to extract everything that is exciting about watching matches.
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Does continual focus of improving the stats of players lead to over coaching and sanitised robotic football?
Or does it improve natural flare and develop natural instinctive talent?
It’s an honest question, because I thought that
the premiership last season was a borefest. Some of the National League playoffs were more entertaining and exciting. I assume the prem teams have the best analytical equipment and staff to deploy these methods most effectively.
(BTW I love stats and numbers)
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Does continual focus of improving the stats of players lead to over coaching and sanitised robotic football?
Or does it improve natural flare and develop natural instinctive talent?
It’s an honest question, because I thought that
the premiership last season was a borefest. Some of the National League playoffs were more entertaining and exciting. I assume the prem teams have the best analytical equipment and staff to deploy these methods most effectively.
(BTW I love stats and numbers)
The Prem is the most boring league to watch bar a couple of teams. I think you're right that players at that level seem to have all the flair & unpredictably coached out of them. They all seem scared to make a mistake.
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Midfield ..I don’t have a clue without a Crew do you ?
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Midfield ..I don’t have a clue without a Crew do you ?
Is that a clue about an incoming?
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Does continual focus of improving the stats of players lead to over coaching and sanitised robotic football?
Or does it improve natural flare and develop natural instinctive talent?
It’s an honest question, because I thought that
the premiership last season was a borefest. Some of the National League playoffs were more entertaining and exciting. I assume the prem teams have the best analytical equipment and staff to deploy these methods most effectively.
(BTW I love stats and numbers)
The Prem is the most boring league to watch bar a couple of teams. I think you're right that players at that level seem to have all the flair & unpredictably coached out of them. They all seem scared to make a mistake.
Get more goals in the EPL than emu other division in England. Goals don’t always mean excitement admittedly. I think the Prem is great to watch where as I think people over rate the championship.
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Does continual focus of improving the stats of players lead to over coaching and sanitised robotic football?
Or does it improve natural flare and develop natural instinctive talent?
It’s an honest question, because I thought that
the premiership last season was a borefest. Some of the National League playoffs were more entertaining and exciting. I assume the prem teams have the best analytical equipment and staff to deploy these methods most effectively.
(BTW I love stats and numbers)
The Prem is the most boring league to watch bar a couple of teams. I think you're right that players at that level seem to have all the flair & unpredictably coached out of them. They all seem scared to make a mistake.
Get more goals in the EPL than emu other division in England. Goals don’t always mean excitement admittedly. I think the Prem is great to watch where as I think people over rate the championship.
Each to their own Gaz. There is probably more goals because there is such a huge gap between the top 7 or 8 teams and the rest of the division.
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Does continual focus of improving the stats of players lead to over coaching and sanitised robotic football?
Or does it improve natural flare and develop natural instinctive talent?
It’s an honest question, because I thought that
the premiership last season was a borefest. Some of the National League playoffs were more entertaining and exciting. I assume the prem teams have the best analytical equipment and staff to deploy these methods most effectively.
(BTW I love stats and numbers)
The Prem is the most boring league to watch bar a couple of teams. I think you're right that players at that level seem to have all the flair & unpredictably coached out of them. They all seem scared to make a mistake.
Get more goals in the EPL than emu other division in England. Goals don’t always mean excitement admittedly. I think the Prem is great to watch where as I think people over rate the championship.
Each to their own Gaz. There is probably more goals because there is such a huge gap between the top 7 or 8 teams and the rest of the division.
Other than the bottom 5/6 last season the Prem was so strong. Just have to look at the quality of players signing for “non traditional” top 6 sides in West Ham, Forest, Bournemouth etc. some incredible players there that would be playing for massive clubs in other countries. Different things appeal to different people when watching sport, and that one of the reasons it’s a popular pastime I suppose.
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I am not in the slightest interested in the Premiership and find the media hype of it quite artificial .The TV money has taken it beyond my concept of material values .
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Completely agree Graingrover, absolutely irrelevant to English football and it should be forced to give up 20% of its income to cascade down the pyramid.
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Back to the topic - McGrath signs 3+1 year deal.