Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Ian Nimmo on August 27, 2025, 07:01:41 am
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Two great performances from Ben capped with a goal in each game.
Worked really hard for in both games, all over the pitch, so his fitness looks to be really good.
Surely with his experience he must be in our match day squads.
Rotherham and Bradford will be two fierce games with highly charged atmospheres, expect both will be 3000 away supporters, thus his experience will be invaluable.
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I’ve said before the role Crew eventually played last year, is ideal for Ben, and with Charlie’s fitness looking like it suffers around the 60-70 minute mark, he is the ideal replacement to come on., or start. The position seems an important position for how Grants teams play, so why not have two who you can swap.
Ben is in great form right now, and cannot do anything more to force Grants hand.
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I was saying last night that Close has proved his quality yet again.
Surely he should be given an opportunity to play on Saturday.
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Who comes out of the matchday squad if Close joins? He has one central midfielder on the bench usually for league games. So far this season the bench player has been Crew, Clifton or Gotts. If Sterry is back then that means the midfield is definitely Bailey and Broadbent, then you have one player to join them and one on the bench from Gotts, Close, Clifton and Crew. Gotts is out for a while so that makes it a bit easier but it is still two from Close, Crew and Clifton. Many people will say drop Clifton but it’s obvious McCann rates him whatever the view on the terrace.
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With Gotts injured, Crew has to make way for Close.
Clifton is a different type of player and is important to the team.
I have been wondering why we even bothered getting Crew here when we already have Close, who is a quality player.
GM sees them all in training every week so I have to trust his judgement but have to say that to my untrained eye, Close is a long way ahead of Crew.
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At the moment the best three central midfield players are Broadbent Bailey and Close play all three. Crew or Clifton on the bench
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With Gotts injured, Crew has to make way for Close.
Clifton is a different type of player and is important to the team.
I have been wondering why we even bothered getting Crew here when we already have Close, who is a quality player.
GM sees them all in training every week so I have to trust his judgement but have to say that to my untrained eye, Close is a long way ahead of Crew.
Agree with that hound.
It was interesting last night to watch Ben and Charlie playing alongside each other in midfield and you couldn’t help but notice the gap in quality.
That’s only one game of course but Close showed his experience against Charlie’s naivety at times.
Crew is obviously a real talent but he’s young and raw and still learning.
There’s a strong argument, in my view, to start with Ben and have Charlie to come off the bench when needed.
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Close must get in ahead of Crew.
As much as I can see the talent in Crew his effort levels are inconsistent, and last night just awful.
Walking about the pitch, not calling for the ball, zero enthusiasm. What topped it off for me was the pass to Hanlon(a whole separate thread on him) with the outside of his right boot almost showboating at 1-0. We don’t need that attitude every week. I’d drop him and give him a reality check.
Hopefully he will reproduce the hunger he had last season, when he was brilliant.
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With the ball, I’d agree with Close being favoured but when we don’t have the ball, for me, Crew still tips the balance in his favour. He was superb partnering Broadbent last season (when Bailey had to cover defensive duties).
Last night, of course, he was a bit subdued, by his standards, but I think he was given the responsibility of being the defensive linchpin.
It’s a tough call either way - all I will say is that Bailey simply can’t be left out as he can play anywhere in that midfield 3. Broadbent, surely comes back in so that only leaves 1 position to fight over.
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It's the touches of magic, the speed of thought and the clear technical ability that is impressive about Crew. He has a natural talent that is a class above, he just needs more game time to become the top player he is destined to be. He raises the bar and the overall quality in the squad which in turn has the effect of making his fellows lift their game. This 2 x 1st teams concept that Grant talks about is really working well and it seems inevitable that Ben Close performing as he is will get plenty of game time during the season.
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Bailey proved last night he is good in the 10 (shocker) and can do everything Clifton and Sbarra can do there and more. Get Close in the squad and bin off Clifton and Sbarra who aren't good enough.
I'm not saying to start Bailey as 10 but there's an option to play Close centre mid and push Bailey up if needed.
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With the ball, I’d agree with Close being favoured but when we don’t have the ball, for me, Crew still tips the balance in his favour. He was superb partnering Broadbent last season (when Bailey had to cover defensive duties).
Last night, of course, he was a bit subdued, by his standards, but I think he was given the responsibility of being the defensive linchpin.
It’s a tough call either way - all I will say is that Bailey simply can’t be left out as he can play anywhere in that midfield 3. Broadbent, surely comes back in so that only leaves 1 position to fight over.
Close was a beast without the ball last night. He’s better defensively than public perception. Like Bostock was, he reads the game well and doesn’t have to charge around diving in.
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Apart from a superbly taken goal I thought Close was very average. Taking the ball off the centre halves 20 yards out and knocking it to the full back does nothing for me, Crew was miles off it first half but wasn't helped by his midfield partner dropping so unesseraly deep all the time when in possession. The Partnership didn't really work and we had to rely on Gibson dropping into pockets getting hold of the ball and moving us up the pitch. Thought the combination of Close & Gotts against Middlesbrough was much more effective, Gotts was the catalyst to allow Close to advance further up the pitch where he became more effective in that game.
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Bailey proved last night he is good in the 10 (shocker) and can do everything Clifton and Sbarra can do there and more. Get Close in the squad and bin off Clifton and Sbarra who aren't good enough.
I'm not saying to start Bailey as 10 but there's an option to play Close centre mid and push Bailey up if needed.
Whilst we are looking at who is performing best, given we struggled a little to convert in ratio to our performance, we have to consider who has been scoring goals. Obviously Bailey but also 2 in 2 for Ben.
It’s a no brainer for me Bailey Broadbent and Close have all performed the best so far, therefore why would you not start with these three?
We have Nixon who has played well and Maxwell seemed to be getting back towards his normal performance level, plus Senior. All have the energy to defend well and getting further up the field. I would give Sterry a little bit more time to recover after such a nasty injury and don’t risk him when we have others playing well.
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Bailey proved last night he is good in the 10 (shocker) and can do everything Clifton and Sbarra can do there and more. Get Close in the squad and bin off Clifton and Sbarra who aren't good enough.
I'm not saying to start Bailey as 10 but there's an option to play Close centre mid and push Bailey up if needed.
agree with this wholeheartedly. I would start Bailey number 10. Without doubt. It would then give us quality throughout. Not making do with bit part nothing players. Bailey has shown he can run all day and press and now he’s shown a deadly eye for goal. It’s made for him. To be honest, we could put him in net and he’d be great.
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It's funny isn't it. I wonder why GM signed him on another contract :)
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He’s earnt his place in the match day squad for me. Good to bring on to keep possession or build momentum if we’re chasing a lead.
Also would a midfield of Broadbent, Close and then Bailey getting into the box be a 1st choice line up? I really like Gotts but while he’s out that’s a good 3.
Crew won’t get dropped out the match day for long due to loan player bias but at the moment he should be the one missing out. He would be if he was contracted to DRFC not Leeds
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Also if he doesn’t make the match day I think it tells us we’re trying to offload him before the window closes. His level of performance might be with a view to attracting a club.
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I always felt Close is a League One player who’s game is much more suited to the third tier rather than the 4th which is too physical for him.
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I thought he has played well the last 2 efl cup games that being said Broadbent drops in between the centre half’s to pick up the ball which close likes to do also. Can’t see it working with both of them in the side. Let’s be honest Accrington were awful last night offered nothing in a press and let us have the ball in our third unopposed which is obviously going to suit close. It’s clear Grant likes a midfield that’s energetic and gets about the pitch and I’m not sure that is close’s game. Still a lot more to do in my opinion before he makes it back into the league side
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I thought he has played well the last 2 efl cup games that being said Broadbent drops in between the centre half’s to pick up the ball which close likes to do also. Can’t see it working with both of them in the side. Let’s be honest Accrington were awful last night offered nothing in a press and let us have the ball in our third unopposed which is obviously going to suit close. It’s clear Grant likes a midfield that’s energetic and gets about the pitch and I’m not sure that is close’s game. Still a lot more to do in my opinion before he makes it back into the league side
But I think he has made a case for himself if Broadbent is injured.
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In the squad at least. It’s a good point that the opposition probably didn’t press him much so not that comparable to a league game.
That said if the opposition are coming to just sit back and pressing midfielder like Clifton is wasted a bit.
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It won't be the same sort of game on Saturday as Accrington or Middlesbrough, and Close has been disappointing over a long three seasons to be trusted in a hard game to start for me.
He has earnt the bench but we have started well in far harder games with others playing and they keep the shirt for me.
Hopefully he might attract a bid.
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Close played a lot for Portsmouth in this league not so long ago..
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Close was a main player for us not so long ago.
I remember when he picked up the bad injury at Bradford and plenty of us on here were worried about our prospects without him in the team.
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Can't help but think McCann doesn't think a thud and blunder local Derby won't suit Close's play maker skills, with the ball often taking the aerial route but, now we rely less on long balls who knows, although Rotherham still likely to prefer that option. Then again, they have been a bit better of late.
Close could be another candidate for the 10 role, due to his eye for goal and his all round passing ability. I think in Gotts absence, then he deffo has a chance to get on the pitch.
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He was that much of a main player for us that game at bradford we were about fourth from bottom of the league and looking to be in a relegation battle.
With him missing we got on a really long run of good results and got in the playoffs.
We didn't half miss him.
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It does feel that people over react when certain players have a good game or a poor one. No doubt he played well but on balance there’s not been enough evidence of him truly impacting games on a regular basis.
I don’t get the criticism of Crew. He shows real quality and if we nurture him and get him involved more he could be huge for us.
As always football is a game of opinions.
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He was that much of a main player for us that game at bradford we were about fourth from bottom of the league and looking to be in a relegation battle.
With him missing we got on a really long run of good results and got in the playoffs.
We didn't half miss him.
I’m not denying any of that mate but it is a fact that plenty of supporters were worried when he was injured at Bradford.
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He was that much of a main player for us that game at bradford we were about fourth from bottom of the league and looking to be in a relegation battle.
With him missing we got on a really long run of good results and got in the playoffs.
We didn't half miss him.
I’m not denying any of that mate but it is a fact that plenty of supporters were worried when he was injured at Bradford.
Why?! Part of a midfield unit that got relegated from league 1 and was making a bloody good fist of getting us relegated from League 2 until he got injured! As for Crew , he will go on to have a far better career than Ben Close ever will , admittedly he wasn't quite at it Tuesday but he's done more in a short time span at Rovers than Close ever has.
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He was that much of a main player for us that game at bradford we were about fourth from bottom of the league and looking to be in a relegation battle.
With him missing we got on a really long run of good results and got in the playoffs.
We didn't half miss him.
I’m not denying any of that mate but it is a fact that plenty of supporters were worried when he was injured at Bradford.
Why?! Part of a midfield unit that got relegated from league 1 and was making a bloody good fist of getting us relegated from League 2 until he got injured! As for Crew , he will go on to have a far better career than Ben Close ever will , admittedly he wasn't quite at it Tuesday but he's done more in a short time span at Rovers than Close ever has.
Why, ask the people who posted on here after the Bradford game.
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He was that much of a main player for us that game at bradford we were about fourth from bottom of the league and looking to be in a relegation battle.
With him missing we got on a really long run of good results and got in the playoffs.
We didn't half miss him.
I’m not denying any of that mate but it is a fact that plenty of supporters were worried when he was injured at Bradford.
Why?! Part of a midfield unit that got relegated from league 1 and was making a bloody good fist of getting us relegated from League 2 until he got injured! As for Crew , he will go on to have a far better career than Ben Close ever will , admittedly he wasn't quite at it Tuesday but he's done more in a short time span at Rovers than Close ever has.
TBF, I, like others, haven't been the biggest fan of Ben Close; however, saying that, he has played well in his recent appearances and I feel that GM has been somewhat vindicated in his previous assessment that BC could/would be an asset in League One. In the 2 recent games he has played (90 mins in both I think) he has strolled through the match and looked (and performed) a different player to who we saw last season. It may be a mindset, it may be fitness, it may be psychological.... but nobody can deny that he has looked like a fine tuned engine in those matches... If he can continue in that vein, then I can see beyond the player that was so very average, shaky and under performing.
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He was that much of a main player for us that game at bradford we were about fourth from bottom of the league and looking to be in a relegation battle.
With him missing we got on a really long run of good results and got in the playoffs.
We didn't half miss him.
Wow.
So you are implying we might not have had that run had Close not been injured.??
Maybe, just maybe, he’s a more effective player (when fit and in form) at the higher level.?
Not so long ago he was a regular for Portsmouth at this level, so he has pedigree. Maybe this season will be the one he comes good for us, if he can get games given our squad size.
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He was that much of a main player for us that game at bradford we were about fourth from bottom of the league and looking to be in a relegation battle.
With him missing we got on a really long run of good results and got in the playoffs.
We didn't half miss him.
Wow.
So you are implying we might not have had that run had Close not been injured.??
Maybe, just maybe, he’s a more effective player (when fit and in form) at the higher level.?
Not so long ago he was a regular for Portsmouth at this level, so he has pedigree. Maybe this season will be the one he comes good for us, if he can get games given our squad size.
Give over , if he was any good Portsmouth wouldn't have got shut. He's made about 80 apearances in 5 years and I can count on 1 hand the number of goals he's scored.
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Close was a main player for us not so long ago.
I remember when he picked up the bad injury at Bradford and plenty of us on here were worried about our prospects without him in the team.
Close was a main player for us not so long ago.
I remember when he picked up the bad injury at Bradford and plenty of us on here were worried about our prospects without him in the team.
Why?! When you used the term us , I presumed you were including yourself, that's why I asked.
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Close was a main player for us not so long ago.
I remember when he picked up the bad injury at Bradford and plenty of us on here were worried about our prospects without him in the team.
Close was a main player for us not so long ago.
I remember when he picked up the bad injury at Bradford and plenty of us on here were worried about our prospects without him in the team.
Why?! When you used the term us , I presumed you were including yourself, that's why I asked.
Us is The Rovers.
Lots of people use that terminology.
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He was that much of a main player for us that game at bradford we were about fourth from bottom of the league and looking to be in a relegation battle.
With him missing we got on a really long run of good results and got in the playoffs.
We didn't half miss him.
Wow.
So you are implying we might not have had that run had Close not been injured.??
Maybe, just maybe, he’s a more effective player (when fit and in form) at the higher level.?
Not so long ago he was a regular for Portsmouth at this level, so he has pedigree. Maybe this season will be the one he comes good for us, if he can get games given our squad size.
Give over , if he was any good Portsmouth wouldn't have got shut. He's made about 80 apearances in 5 years and I can count on 1 hand the number of goals he's scored.
125 games in 4 seasons in league 1 for Portsmouth assuming the data on wiki is correct.
14 goals too, so unless you’re from Barnsley your point is rather moot.
If you are going to make a counter argument best to get your data sorted first maybe.?
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He was that much of a main player for us that game at bradford we were about fourth from bottom of the league and looking to be in a relegation battle.
With him missing we got on a really long run of good results and got in the playoffs.
We didn't half miss him.
Wow.
So you are implying we might not have had that run had Close not been injured.??
Maybe, just maybe, he’s a more effective player (when fit and in form) at the higher level.?
Not so long ago he was a regular for Portsmouth at this level, so he has pedigree. Maybe this season will be the one he comes good for us, if he can get games given our squad size.
Give over , if he was any good Portsmouth wouldn't have got shut. He's made about 80 apearances in 5 years and I can count on 1 hand the number of goals he's scored.
125 games in 4 seasons in league 1 for Portsmouth assuming the data on wiki is correct.
14 goals too, so unless you’re from Barnsley your point is rather moot.
If you are going to make a counter argument best to get your data sorted first maybe.?
I'm on about his appearances for us, apologies if I'd not quite made myself clear enough
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Fair enough - my point is he has pedigree at this level. Whether he shows it now remains to be seen.
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Ben Close has ability and should have been able to play a larger part in the time he's been with us. There are a number of things which has compounded resulting in us not getting value for money out of him. Firstly injuries. Blighted by them at times when we least needed it. Secondly, when playing in a poor team, as a senior pro alongside young loanees, many expected him to be a more combative midfield player, putting in tackles 'putting a shift in' as we say. In a losing team, people find it hard to accept when he wasn't that player.
Third, when things improved, he couldn't get a run of games and develop understandings with players but there were times (I remember Hartogate away specifically) when he fell asleep losing his man, who went on to score. Once again, I it didn't go down well with his card already being marked, so he didn't really help himself either.
Fourth. He doesn't really have much charisma off the pitch where he's warmed himself to the community, although given his stop, start time with us he's probably not one of the first to be chosen for PR duties.
IF he could have a run of games with better players around him, then I'm sure we'd see what he's really capable of but, it's a very big IF.
I think he should have wanted to move on and make a fresh start. He could have three or four good games, but as soon as he cocks up, he'll get crucified.
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Ben Close has ability and should have been able to play a larger part in the time he's been with us. There are a number of things which has compounded resulting in us not getting value for money out of him. Firstly injuries. Blighted by them at times when we least needed it. Secondly, when playing in a poor team, as a senior pro alongside young loanees, many expected him to be a more combative midfield player, putting in tackles 'putting a shift in' as we say. In a losing team, people find it hard to accept when he wasn't that player.
Third, when things improved, he couldn't get a run of games and develop understandings with players but there were times (I remember Hartogate away specifically) when he fell asleep losing his man, who went on to score. Once again, I it didn't go down well with his card already being marked, so he didn't really help himself either.
Fourth. He doesn't really have much charisma off the pitch where he's warmed himself to the community, although given his stop, start time with us he's probably not one of the first to be chosen for PR duties.
IF he could have a run of games with better players around him, then I'm sure we'd see what he's really capable of but, it's a very big IF.
I think he should have wanted to move on and make a fresh start. He could have three or four good games, but as soon as he cocks up, he'll get crucified.
I think that’s a very fair summary of his abilities. He undoubtedly has skill, but his physical fragility as a result of past injuries means that he cannot fulfil the full range of requirements of someone in his role at this level, especially his reluctance to tackle. As an admirer, you could point to some moments of brilliance, especially his goals. As a critic, even when he has a relatively easy ride, as in the Accrington game, I cannot see how people can be satisfied with a player whose preference for at least 75% of the time is the risk-free square or backward pass. In the more intensely-fought contests is the luxury of a few nice touches worth the loss of a significant element of midfield defensive strength?
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Ben Close has ability and should have been able to play a larger part in the time he's been with us. There are a number of things which has compounded resulting in us not getting value for money out of him. Firstly injuries. Blighted by them at times when we least needed it. Secondly, when playing in a poor team, as a senior pro alongside young loanees, many expected him to be a more combative midfield player, putting in tackles 'putting a shift in' as we say. In a losing team, people find it hard to accept when he wasn't that player.
Third, when things improved, he couldn't get a run of games and develop understandings with players but there were times (I remember Hartogate away specifically) when he fell asleep losing his man, who went on to score. Once again, I it didn't go down well with his card already being marked, so he didn't really help himself either.
Fourth. He doesn't really have much charisma off the pitch where he's warmed himself to the community, although given his stop, start time with us he's probably not one of the first to be chosen for PR duties.
IF he could have a run of games with better players around him, then I'm sure we'd see what he's really capable of but, it's a very big IF.
I think he should have wanted to move on and make a fresh start. He could have three or four good games, but as soon as he cocks up, he'll get crucified.
I think that’s a very fair summary of his abilities. He undoubtedly has skill, but his physical fragility as a result of past injuries means that he cannot fulfil the full range of requirements of someone in his role at this level, especially his reluctance to tackle. As an admirer, you could point to some moments of brilliance, especially his goals. As a critic, even when he has a relatively easy ride, as in the Accrington game, I cannot see how people can be satisfied with a player whose preference for at least 75% of the time is the risk-free square or backward pass. In the more intensely-fought contests is the luxury of a few nice touches worth the loss of a significant element of midfield defensive strength?
He likes a forward pass.. (as does Zain)
Career forward passes/90 (WyScout)
O. Bailey - 15.15*
G. Broadbent - 12.92
H. Clifton - 11.75
B. Close - 15.99
C. Crew - 13.57
R. Gotts - 9.93
J. Sbarra - 7.3
Z. Westbrooke - 15.44
* Includes games played as a defender
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That is really interesting data Ho, thanks for sharing.
I was just about to challenge Forsolongarover’s claim that “at least 75% of his passes are square or backward” because that’s not what I’ve observed, but I had no facts to back that up.
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He was that much of a main player for us that game at bradford we were about fourth from bottom of the league and looking to be in a relegation battle.
With him missing we got on a really long run of good results and got in the playoffs.
We didn't half miss him.
I’m not denying any of that mate but it is a fact that plenty of supporters were worried when he was injured at Bradford.
Why?! Part of a midfield unit that got relegated from league 1 and was making a bloody good fist of getting us relegated from League 2 until he got injured! As for Crew , he will go on to have a far better career than Ben Close ever will , admittedly he wasn't quite at it Tuesday but he's done more in a short time span at Rovers than Close ever has.
The comparisons between Close and Crew on this thread are based on the game at Accrington.
You’ve made a huge leap to compare their past and future careers.
Nobody is saying that Close will prove to be a better player than Crew over their entire careers because that would be silly wouldn’t it?
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Ben Close has ability and should have been able to play a larger part in the time he's been with us. There are a number of things which has compounded resulting in us not getting value for money out of him. Firstly injuries. Blighted by them at times when we least needed it. Secondly, when playing in a poor team, as a senior pro alongside young loanees, many expected him to be a more combative midfield player, putting in tackles 'putting a shift in' as we say. In a losing team, people find it hard to accept when he wasn't that player.
Third, when things improved, he couldn't get a run of games and develop understandings with players but there were times (I remember Hartogate away specifically) when he fell asleep losing his man, who went on to score. Once again, I it didn't go down well with his card already being marked, so he didn't really help himself either.
Fourth. He doesn't really have much charisma off the pitch where he's warmed himself to the community, although given his stop, start time with us he's probably not one of the first to be chosen for PR duties.
IF he could have a run of games with better players around him, then I'm sure we'd see what he's really capable of but, it's a very big IF.
I think he should have wanted to move on and make a fresh start. He could have three or four good games, but as soon as he cocks up, he'll get crucified.
I think that’s a very fair summary of his abilities. He undoubtedly has skill, but his physical fragility as a result of past injuries means that he cannot fulfil the full range of requirements of someone in his role at this level, especially his reluctance to tackle. As an admirer, you could point to some moments of brilliance, especially his goals. As a critic, even when he has a relatively easy ride, as in the Accrington game, I cannot see how people can be satisfied with a player whose preference for at least 75% of the time is the risk-free square or backward pass. In the more intensely-fought contests is the luxury of a few nice touches worth the loss of a significant element of midfield defensive strength?
He likes a forward pass.. (as does Zain)
Career forward passes/90 (WyScout)
O. Bailey - 15.15*
G. Broadbent - 12.92
H. Clifton - 11.75
B. Close - 15.99
C. Crew - 13.57
R. Gotts - 9.93
J. Sbarra - 7.3
Z. Westbrooke - 15.44
* Includes games played as a defender
I suspect that a “forward pass” includes ones that are basically cross-field and a degree or two upward of zero, because you only have to watch Close to know that he nearly always plays safe. I’m afraid that these stats don’t change my opinion.
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Ben Close has ability and should have been able to play a larger part in the time he's been with us. There are a number of things which has compounded resulting in us not getting value for money out of him. Firstly injuries. Blighted by them at times when we least needed it. Secondly, when playing in a poor team, as a senior pro alongside young loanees, many expected him to be a more combative midfield player, putting in tackles 'putting a shift in' as we say. In a losing team, people find it hard to accept when he wasn't that player.
Third, when things improved, he couldn't get a run of games and develop understandings with players but there were times (I remember Hartogate away specifically) when he fell asleep losing his man, who went on to score. Once again, I it didn't go down well with his card already being marked, so he didn't really help himself either.
Fourth. He doesn't really have much charisma off the pitch where he's warmed himself to the community, although given his stop, start time with us he's probably not one of the first to be chosen for PR duties.
IF he could have a run of games with better players around him, then I'm sure we'd see what he's really capable of but, it's a very big IF.
I think he should have wanted to move on and make a fresh start. He could have three or four good games, but as soon as he cocks up, he'll get crucified.
I think that’s a very fair summary of his abilities. He undoubtedly has skill, but his physical fragility as a result of past injuries means that he cannot fulfil the full range of requirements of someone in his role at this level, especially his reluctance to tackle. As an admirer, you could point to some moments of brilliance, especially his goals. As a critic, even when he has a relatively easy ride, as in the Accrington game, I cannot see how people can be satisfied with a player whose preference for at least 75% of the time is the risk-free square or backward pass. In the more intensely-fought contests is the luxury of a few nice touches worth the loss of a significant element of midfield defensive strength?
He likes a forward pass.. (as does Zain)
Career forward passes/90 (WyScout)
O. Bailey - 15.15*
G. Broadbent - 12.92
H. Clifton - 11.75
B. Close - 15.99
C. Crew - 13.57
R. Gotts - 9.93
J. Sbarra - 7.3
Z. Westbrooke - 15.44
* Includes games played as a defender
I suspect that a “forward pass” includes ones that are basically cross-field and a degree or two upward of zero, because you only have to watch Close to know that he nearly always plays safe. I’m afraid that these stats don’t change my opinion.
The evidence clearly shows Close is our best forward passing midfielder. If you choose to ignore this you’re obviously prejudiced against him for some other reason.
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Ben Close has ability and should have been able to play a larger part in the time he's been with us. There are a number of things which has compounded resulting in us not getting value for money out of him. Firstly injuries. Blighted by them at times when we least needed it. Secondly, when playing in a poor team, as a senior pro alongside young loanees, many expected him to be a more combative midfield player, putting in tackles 'putting a shift in' as we say. In a losing team, people find it hard to accept when he wasn't that player.
Third, when things improved, he couldn't get a run of games and develop understandings with players but there were times (I remember Hartogate away specifically) when he fell asleep losing his man, who went on to score. Once again, I it didn't go down well with his card already being marked, so he didn't really help himself either.
Fourth. He doesn't really have much charisma off the pitch where he's warmed himself to the community, although given his stop, start time with us he's probably not one of the first to be chosen for PR duties.
IF he could have a run of games with better players around him, then I'm sure we'd see what he's really capable of but, it's a very big IF.
I think he should have wanted to move on and make a fresh start. He could have three or four good games, but as soon as he cocks up, he'll get crucified.
I think that’s a very fair summary of his abilities. He undoubtedly has skill, but his physical fragility as a result of past injuries means that he cannot fulfil the full range of requirements of someone in his role at this level, especially his reluctance to tackle. As an admirer, you could point to some moments of brilliance, especially his goals. As a critic, even when he has a relatively easy ride, as in the Accrington game, I cannot see how people can be satisfied with a player whose preference for at least 75% of the time is the risk-free square or backward pass. In the more intensely-fought contests is the luxury of a few nice touches worth the loss of a significant element of midfield defensive strength?
He likes a forward pass.. (as does Zain)
Career forward passes/90 (WyScout)
O. Bailey - 15.15*
G. Broadbent - 12.92
H. Clifton - 11.75
B. Close - 15.99
C. Crew - 13.57
R. Gotts - 9.93
J. Sbarra - 7.3
Z. Westbrooke - 15.44
* Includes games played as a defender
I suspect that a “forward pass” includes ones that are basically cross-field and a degree or two upward of zero, because you only have to watch Close to know that he nearly always plays safe. I’m afraid that these stats don’t change my opinion.
The evidence clearly shows Close is our best forward passing midfielder. If you choose to ignore this you’re obviously prejudiced against him for some other reason.
Only if we were to rely entirely on statistics to make all our judgments!
Football is a sport and if punters could rely on statistics in betting there would be no bookmakers, let alone prosperous ones!
It seems that some people imagine that stats can encompasses everything which happens in a football match.
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My eyes don’t lie to me and from the moment Wellens brought him in he has been poor throughout and unavailable a lot. Could argue he was in a horrendous team up until now but good players pull their sleeves up and stand out. He has undeniable technical ability, played very well at Boro and was decent the other night but, in my opinion the moment you put him into a league match he will be our weak link. If memory serves me correctly his last league start for us was home to Chesterfield last season and he was sh!te. Didn’t know what to do with their press and struggled physically. He should have been subbed in that game before it went to 0-1. Rightly came out the team for the following game and sat the season out.
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Close has got skills but he struggles maintaining any consistency every season. I hope his spell of good form continues, but it rarely does.
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Ben Close has ability and should have been able to play a larger part in the time he's been with us. There are a number of things which has compounded resulting in us not getting value for money out of him. Firstly injuries. Blighted by them at times when we least needed it. Secondly, when playing in a poor team, as a senior pro alongside young loanees, many expected him to be a more combative midfield player, putting in tackles 'putting a shift in' as we say. In a losing team, people find it hard to accept when he wasn't that player.
Third, when things improved, he couldn't get a run of games and develop understandings with players but there were times (I remember Hartogate away specifically) when he fell asleep losing his man, who went on to score. Once again, I it didn't go down well with his card already being marked, so he didn't really help himself either.
Fourth. He doesn't really have much charisma off the pitch where he's warmed himself to the community, although given his stop, start time with us he's probably not one of the first to be chosen for PR duties.
IF he could have a run of games with better players around him, then I'm sure we'd see what he's really capable of but, it's a very big IF.
I think he should have wanted to move on and make a fresh start. He could have three or four good games, but as soon as he cocks up, he'll get crucified.
I think that’s a very fair summary of his abilities. He undoubtedly has skill, but his physical fragility as a result of past injuries means that he cannot fulfil the full range of requirements of someone in his role at this level, especially his reluctance to tackle. As an admirer, you could point to some moments of brilliance, especially his goals. As a critic, even when he has a relatively easy ride, as in the Accrington game, I cannot see how people can be satisfied with a player whose preference for at least 75% of the time is the risk-free square or backward pass. In the more intensely-fought contests is the luxury of a few nice touches worth the loss of a significant element of midfield defensive strength?
He likes a forward pass.. (as does Zain)
Career forward passes/90 (WyScout)
O. Bailey - 15.15*
G. Broadbent - 12.92
H. Clifton - 11.75
B. Close - 15.99
C. Crew - 13.57
R. Gotts - 9.93
J. Sbarra - 7.3
Z. Westbrooke - 15.44
* Includes games played as a defender
I suspect that a “forward pass” includes ones that are basically cross-field and a degree or two upward of zero, because you only have to watch Close to know that he nearly always plays safe. I’m afraid that these stats don’t change my opinion.
A forward pass is less than 45 degrees if 0 degrees is straight ahead (according to the WyScout glossary).
Further info:
B. Close forward passes/90 (WyScout)
2021/2 - 13.04
2022/3 - 15.18
2023/4 - 17.24
2024/5 - 16.10 *
2025/6 - 18.00
* Excludes games at Eastleigh, 14.36 including those games.
The first couple of seasons were below career average which may explain the perception people took and then held.
I’m slightly surprised that 2022/3 wasn’t less given what was ahead of him…
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Ben Close has ability and should have been able to play a larger part in the time he's been with us. There are a number of things which has compounded resulting in us not getting value for money out of him. Firstly injuries. Blighted by them at times when we least needed it. Secondly, when playing in a poor team, as a senior pro alongside young loanees, many expected him to be a more combative midfield player, putting in tackles 'putting a shift in' as we say. In a losing team, people find it hard to accept when he wasn't that player.
Third, when things improved, he couldn't get a run of games and develop understandings with players but there were times (I remember Hartogate away specifically) when he fell asleep losing his man, who went on to score. Once again, I it didn't go down well with his card already being marked, so he didn't really help himself either.
Fourth. He doesn't really have much charisma off the pitch where he's warmed himself to the community, although given his stop, start time with us he's probably not one of the first to be chosen for PR duties.
IF he could have a run of games with better players around him, then I'm sure we'd see what he's really capable of but, it's a very big IF.
I think he should have wanted to move on and make a fresh start. He could have three or four good games, but as soon as he cocks up, he'll get crucified.
I think that’s a very fair summary of his abilities. He undoubtedly has skill, but his physical fragility as a result of past injuries means that he cannot fulfil the full range of requirements of someone in his role at this level, especially his reluctance to tackle. As an admirer, you could point to some moments of brilliance, especially his goals. As a critic, even when he has a relatively easy ride, as in the Accrington game, I cannot see how people can be satisfied with a player whose preference for at least 75% of the time is the risk-free square or backward pass. In the more intensely-fought contests is the luxury of a few nice touches worth the loss of a significant element of midfield defensive strength?
He likes a forward pass.. (as does Zain)
Career forward passes/90 (WyScout)
O. Bailey - 15.15*
G. Broadbent - 12.92
H. Clifton - 11.75
B. Close - 15.99
C. Crew - 13.57
R. Gotts - 9.93
J. Sbarra - 7.3
Z. Westbrooke - 15.44
* Includes games played as a defender
I suspect that a “forward pass” includes ones that are basically cross-field and a degree or two upward of zero, because you only have to watch Close to know that he nearly always plays safe. I’m afraid that these stats don’t change my opinion.
A forward pass is less than 45 degrees if 0 degrees is straight ahead (according to the WyScout glossary).
Further info:
B. Close forward passes/90 (WyScout)
2021/2 - 13.04
2022/3 - 15.18
2023/4 - 17.24
2024/5 - 16.10 *
2025/6 - 18.00
* Excludes games at Eastleigh, 14.36 including those games.
The first couple of seasons were below career average which may explain the perception people took and then held.
I’m slightly surprised that 2022/3 wasn’t less given what was ahead of him…
Can you do key passes per 90 for the same group of players please?
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Can you do key passes per 90 for the same group of players please?
I don't have access to "Key Passes", but here's Shot Assist which is similar.
Career shot assists/90 (WyScout)
O. Bailey - 0.43*
G. Broadbent - 0.57
H. Clifton - 0.71
B. Close - 0.83
C. Crew - 0.76
R. Gotts - 0.84
J. Sbarra - 1.04
Z. Westbrooke - 1.37
* Includes games played as a defender
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Ben Close has ability and should have been able to play a larger part in the time he's been with us. There are a number of things which has compounded resulting in us not getting value for money out of him. Firstly injuries. Blighted by them at times when we least needed it. Secondly, when playing in a poor team, as a senior pro alongside young loanees, many expected him to be a more combative midfield player, putting in tackles 'putting a shift in' as we say. In a losing team, people find it hard to accept when he wasn't that player.
Third, when things improved, he couldn't get a run of games and develop understandings with players but there were times (I remember Hartogate away specifically) when he fell asleep losing his man, who went on to score. Once again, I it didn't go down well with his card already being marked, so he didn't really help himself either.
Fourth. He doesn't really have much charisma off the pitch where he's warmed himself to the community, although given his stop, start time with us he's probably not one of the first to be chosen for PR duties.
IF he could have a run of games with better players around him, then I'm sure we'd see what he's really capable of but, it's a very big IF.
I think he should have wanted to move on and make a fresh start. He could have three or four good games, but as soon as he cocks up, he'll get crucified.
I think that%u2019s a very fair summary of his abilities. He undoubtedly has skill, but his physical fragility as a result of past injuries means that he cannot fulfil the full range of requirements of someone in his role at this level, especially his reluctance to tackle. As an admirer, you could point to some moments of brilliance, especially his goals. As a critic, even when he has a relatively easy ride, as in the Accrington game, I cannot see how people can be satisfied with a player whose preference for at least 75% of the time is the risk-free square or backward pass. In the more intensely-fought contests is the luxury of a few nice touches worth the loss of a significant element of midfield defensive strength?
He likes a forward pass.. (as does Zain)
Career forward passes/90 (WyScout)
O. Bailey - 15.15*
G. Broadbent - 12.92
H. Clifton - 11.75
B. Close - 15.99
C. Crew - 13.57
R. Gotts - 9.93
J. Sbarra - 7.3
Z. Westbrooke - 15.44
* Includes games played as a defender
I suspect that a %u201Cforward pass%u201D includes ones that are basically cross-field and a degree or two upward of zero, because you only have to watch Close to know that he nearly always plays safe. I%u2019m afraid that these stats don%u2019t change my opinion.
The bare facts show that your assumption was incorrect.
How can you maintain an opinion when actual facts show it to be incorrect?
Do the honourable thing and put down your shovel, it%u2019s becoming embarrassing.
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Can you do key passes per 90 for the same group of players please?
I don't have access to "Key Passes", but here's Shot Assist which is similar.
Career shot assists/90 (WyScout)
O. Bailey - 0.43*
G. Broadbent - 0.57
H. Clifton - 0.71
B. Close - 0.83
C. Crew - 0.76
R. Gotts - 0.84
J. Sbarra - 1.04
Z. Westbrooke - 1.37
* Includes games played as a defender
Interesting that Westbrooke has great passing stats on both those metrics.
The narrative I’ve always fought against on here is that he “only passes sideways and backwards”. So thank you.
No idea how Sbarra gets game time over him.
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Ben Close has ability and should have been able to play a larger part in the time he's been with us. There are a number of things which has compounded resulting in us not getting value for money out of him. Firstly injuries. Blighted by them at times when we least needed it. Secondly, when playing in a poor team, as a senior pro alongside young loanees, many expected him to be a more combative midfield player, putting in tackles 'putting a shift in' as we say. In a losing team, people find it hard to accept when he wasn't that player.
Third, when things improved, he couldn't get a run of games and develop understandings with players but there were times (I remember Hartogate away specifically) when he fell asleep losing his man, who went on to score. Once again, I it didn't go down well with his card already being marked, so he didn't really help himself either.
Fourth. He doesn't really have much charisma off the pitch where he's warmed himself to the community, although given his stop, start time with us he's probably not one of the first to be chosen for PR duties.
IF he could have a run of games with better players around him, then I'm sure we'd see what he's really capable of but, it's a very big IF.
I think he should have wanted to move on and make a fresh start. He could have three or four good games, but as soon as he cocks up, he'll get crucified.
I think that%u2019s a very fair summary of his abilities. He undoubtedly has skill, but his physical fragility as a result of past injuries means that he cannot fulfil the full range of requirements of someone in his role at this level, especially his reluctance to tackle. As an admirer, you could point to some moments of brilliance, especially his goals. As a critic, even when he has a relatively easy ride, as in the Accrington game, I cannot see how people can be satisfied with a player whose preference for at least 75% of the time is the risk-free square or backward pass. In the more intensely-fought contests is the luxury of a few nice touches worth the loss of a significant element of midfield defensive strength?
He likes a forward pass.. (as does Zain)
Career forward passes/90 (WyScout)
O. Bailey - 15.15*
G. Broadbent - 12.92
H. Clifton - 11.75
B. Close - 15.99
C. Crew - 13.57
R. Gotts - 9.93
J. Sbarra - 7.3
Z. Westbrooke - 15.44
* Includes games played as a defender
I suspect that a %u201Cforward pass%u201D includes ones that are basically cross-field and a degree or two upward of zero, because you only have to watch Close to know that he nearly always plays safe. I%u2019m afraid that these stats don%u2019t change my opinion.
The bare facts show that your assumption was incorrect.
How can you maintain an opinion when actual facts show it to be incorrect?
Do the honourable thing and put down your shovel, it%u2019s becoming embarrassing.
I am quite comfortable taking a view which may be at odds with what you believe statistics “prove”.
If you believe that sporting performance can be judged solely by reference to statistics, perhaps you should consult a professional statistician or even study the subject in more depth for yourself.
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Genuine question but couldn't his pass forward stats be higher because he generally receives the ball stood next to our CB or he's deep lying in midfield? In which case he has more options to pass forward compared to the likes of Clifton or Sbarra who are generally recieving the ball in more advanced positions (more often than not with their backs to goal) so have less options to pass forward. Also our cb's and keeper must have really good stats for passing forward ?!
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Bet our keepers have great forward pass stats. Let’s put them in midfield! The stats prove it.
Can we get his physical duals and 2nd ball win stats. As almost everyone is saying he’s obviously got ability and imo is worth a place in the match day. But we’ve seen enough to know he’s a bit soft and has weak areas. They type of weak areas that you can’t be having in the team really. They type that lead a team to get rolled over weekly and ran all over in midfield.
He’ll show up a bit better because he’s players around him who cover for those weaknesses but they are glaring.
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Genuine question but couldn't his pass forward stats be higher because he generally receives the ball stood next to our CB or he's deep lying in midfield? In which case he has more options to pass forward compared to the likes of Clifton or Sbarra who are generally recieving the ball in more advanced positions (more often than not with their backs to goal) so have less options to pass forward. Also our cb's and keeper must have really good stats for passing forward ?!
Pretty much. A defensive midfielder is a progressor of the ball, he'll be your Close's, your Broadbent's, etc, the people show for the ball to recycle it and move it on. Those guys will have high passes stats, high pass completions, high progressive passes, high forward passes.
Then your number 10s, will usually try for harder passes, they will have lower amount of passes because they're in the final third and they'll complete fewer because they're harder passes, they'll likely have higher key passes because they're making the risky passes that create goal scoring opportunities more.
If you compare like for like Close with Broadbent or Crew then you'll get an idea of how he compares.
We tend to progress mostly with our wing backs so they'll probably come highest, along with Broadbent.