Viking Supporters Co-operative

Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: JamieM on March 01, 2010, 09:59:56 pm

Title: Everyone get a grip
Post by: JamieM on March 01, 2010, 09:59:56 pm
Dear me what is it with everyone moaning about season tickets for next year?

JR has explained in his letter the reason for the increase in price for season tickets, it's necessary. I quote 'the price rise reflects the board's desire and ambition to take this club forward and onto the next level'. Also, he said that the extra revenue would be spent on 'the key signings that we need'.

Jesus christ the amount of times i've heard people moaning on here about a lack of ambition from the board - well here it is.

Yes it's annoying that we have to pay an increase but how else can this push be facilitated? The board have invested £5 million over the past 2 years - they need our help.

With the enjoyment that i have gained from the Rovers over the past 8 years or so i feel like i owe them some money!

You have to credit the man's ambition - look at where he's taken us for cry sake - if he wants a bit of extra money to propel this club forward then i'll happily dig out a few quid extra without a second thought. I thought that that would be the reaction from the majority of supporters?

Also, we have ONE MONTH to get the early bird prices - everyone else is saying that this is too short. How much time do you need? The process of buying a season ticket is so simple and quick.

The question you have to ask yourself is - do you want to carry on seeing your hometown club continue their surge up the football league or are you going to sulk and carry on sucking on your dummy and pretending that people care about this oh so cruel season ticket rise. Get a grip.

Success doesn't materialise from nowhere - it has to be invested in. Deal with it. Support the club!
Title: Re:Everyone get a grip
Post by: Lytham Rover on March 01, 2010, 10:06:04 pm
i agree with all these sentiments :)
Title: Re:Everyone get a grip
Post by: leedshayter on March 01, 2010, 10:08:18 pm
i agree jamie can u lend me £280 ill give it you back in july
Title: Re:Everyone get a grip
Post by: JamieM on March 01, 2010, 10:08:45 pm
Another point to add to my argument:

Rovers had the 4th lowest season ticket maximum price out of all the teams in the championsip for the 09/10 season.

You have to dish out £700 a year for the likes of QPR and Ipswich.
Title: Re:Everyone get a grip
Post by: Nudga on March 01, 2010, 10:10:44 pm
I think i'll just stick to paying on the day thanks.
Title: Re:Everyone get a grip
Post by: MrFrost on March 01, 2010, 10:11:28 pm
JamieM wrote:
Quote
Dear me what is it with everyone moaning about season tickets for next year?

JR has explained in his letter the reason for the increase in price for season tickets, it's necessary. I quote 'the price rise reflects the board's desire and ambition to take this club forward and onto the next level'. Also, he said that the extra revenue would be spent on 'the key signings that we need'.

Jesus christ the amount of times i've heard people moaning on here about a lack of ambition from the board - well here it is.

Yes it's annoying that we have to pay an increase but how else can this push be facilitated? The board have invested £5 million over the past 2 years - they need our help.

With the enjoyment that i have gained from the Rovers over the past 8 years or so i feel like i owe them some money!

You have to credit the man's ambition - look at where he's taken us for cry sake - if he wants a bit of extra money to propel this club forward then i'll happily dig out a few quid extra without a second thought. I thought that that would be the reaction from the majority of supporters?

Also, we have ONE MONTH to get the early bird prices - everyone else is saying that this is too short. How much time do you need? The process of buying a season ticket is so simple and quick.

The question you have to ask yourself is - do you want to carry on seeing your hometown club continue their surge up the football league or are you going to sulk and carry on sucking on your dummy and pretending that people care about this oh so cruel season ticket rise. Get a grip.

Success doesn't materialise from nowhere - it has to be invested in. Deal with it. Support the club!


Its not the process that people are complaining about. Its having a month to find the money. Take a family of four with Cat C seats. Pushing a £200 increase on last year and they have to find the money within a month or the prices rise to a crazy 50% increase on this season.

The rises in Cat A are fine, i've no problem with that, but that category C rises cannot be justified.
Title: Re:Everyone get a grip
Post by: jucyberry on March 01, 2010, 10:13:47 pm
JamieM wrote:
Quote

Also, we have ONE MONTH to get the early bird prices - everyone else is saying that this is too short. How much time do you need? The process of buying a season ticket is so simple and quick.



Only simple and quick if you have the cash...Most people are paid monthly, mostly towards the end of the month at that.  Not so many will have the extra chinking around in the bottom of their wage packets.
Title: Re:Everyone get a grip
Post by: thin bird on March 01, 2010, 10:15:16 pm
Dear me what is it with everyone moaning about season tickets for next year?

JR has explained in his letter the reason for the increase in price for season tickets, it's necessary. I quote 'the price rise reflects the board's desire and ambition to take this club forward and onto the next level'. Also, he said that the extra revenue would be spent on 'the key signings that we need'.

Jesus christ the amount of times i've heard people moaning on here about a lack of ambition from the board - well here it is.

Yes it's annoying that we have to pay an increase but how else can this push be facilitated? The board have invested £5 million over the past 2 years - they need our help.

With the enjoyment that i have gained from the Rovers over the past 8 years or so i feel like i owe them some money!

You have to credit the man's ambition - look at where he's taken us for cry sake - if he wants a bit of extra money to propel this club forward then i'll happily dig out a few quid extra without a second thought. I thought that that would be the reaction from the majority of supporters?

Also, we have ONE MONTH to get the early bird prices - everyone else is saying that this is too short. How much time do you need? The process of buying a season ticket is so simple and quick.

The question you have to ask yourself is - do you want to carry on seeing your hometown club continue their surge up the football league or are you going to sulk and carry on sucking on your dummy and pretending that people care about this oh so cruel season ticket rise. Get a grip.

Success doesn't materialise from nowhere - it has to be invested in. Deal with it. Support the club!


Well said at last someone talking sense !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re:Everyone get a grip
Post by: MrFrost on March 01, 2010, 10:16:13 pm
To put Cat C into perspective. A family of 4 (2 adults and kids over 12) Face a £350 hike compared to this season if they don't renew this month.

Even if they do renew this month its already a hike of £140.

We are pricing families out.
Title: Re:Everyone get a grip
Post by: JamieM on March 01, 2010, 10:17:08 pm
True i cannot defend the rise in Cat C but people sitting there have had a good time of it for the last few seasons. £30 season ticket for under 11's? Whilst it's brlliant for families with young children it's no way to run a business.

I think the whole idea of the cheap Cat C was to encourage families with youngsters to the Keepmoat.

It was only a matter of time for Cat C - the previous prices were too good to be true. However, maybe a series of annual installments would have been a better idea instead of a full on £200 all at one go.
Title: Re:Everyone get a grip
Post by: RTID75 on March 01, 2010, 10:17:57 pm
Whilst the price rise is not something I am exactly over the moon over, I can live with it, and although I think the logic will have the reverse effect of reducing season ticket sales, I don't really begrudge the club the price rise.

The fact we have a month to get the money together (in my case £440) with no prior warning before the price goes up again, is, in my opinion, not right. Can you afford to spend that much money of one month's pay? If so, you're a richer person than I - good for you, but don't treat everyone like they can pull serious amounts of cash out of nowhere in such a short space of time.

Like I also said elsewhere, I have had no official notice from Rovers as yet either. If it weren't for the internet I'd not know and I'd have even less notice.
Title: Re:Everyone get a grip
Post by: Nudga on March 01, 2010, 10:18:10 pm
Me and my missus have just been through our bank statement this evening and have shaved a few \"luxeries\" off, like pet insurance and re-financing existing loans and getting rid of sky tv. Our monthly out goings are still £1350, not a lot of spare money about i'm afraid. If folk can afford it then great, but others shouldn't berate the ones who can't, and the club should realise that fans aren't made of money.
Title: Re:Everyone get a grip
Post by: SkellowRover on March 01, 2010, 10:19:19 pm
JamieM wrote:
Quote

Also, we have ONE MONTH to get the early bird prices - everyone else is saying that this is too short. How much time do you need? The process of buying a season ticket is so simple and quick.


I budgeted for my ST's to be paid for my the end of may as they are every year at the early bird prices. I knew there would be an increase so for my 4 ST's (1 adult, 1 consc, 1 12-16 & 1 u'11) so i had planed to put £230 away this month, £230 in April and a further £230 in May to cover this.

My 4 ST's this season come to £665 at early bird prices which is great because that's roughly what i had budgeted for to pay at the end of May. Now the club are telling me to fcuk off, for the first time in our history you won't have until the end of may as the earliest cut off point for early bird prices, instead you have 4 weeks and if you don't pay by then we will charge you an extra £160!!!!!

So i have to borrow £435 this month from family or the bank to get my 4 ST's at early bird prices or find an extra £160 which i havn't budgeted for and will struggle to find.

And everyone i have spoken too and 99% of the people posting on here are in the same boat, it's not the money it's the pathetic amount of time we have been given by the club if we don't want to have a £160 increase because they are incapable of being realistic and giving supporters more then 4 weeks notice.
Title: Re:Everyone get a grip
Post by: MrFrost on March 01, 2010, 10:20:25 pm
I know alot of families who go to the Rovers (2 adults and kids)
If they buy after the so called early bird for the same Cat C seats as they had this season they will pay a total of £1030 instead of £680.

You can imagine the queue's now.
Title: Re:Everyone get a grip
Post by: dijit8 on March 01, 2010, 10:22:55 pm
I got one of these credit cards a few years ago.

0% interest on season tickets

http://www.barclaysfootball.co.uk/
Title: Re:Everyone get a grip
Post by: BobG on March 01, 2010, 10:25:13 pm
Don't mean to pry Nudga, but surely 're-financing existing loans' is exactly what you, and others, should do to help pay for next years' ST? I've just done that for somone I know and she's knocked well over 70 quid a month off through doing really simple things  - and she only earns about 250 quid a week.

BobG
Title: Re:Everyone get a grip
Post by: kyle17balby on March 01, 2010, 10:26:37 pm
im going for it :) only 150 quid but i supose its worth it to see rovers :)
Title: Re:Everyone get a grip
Post by: DonnyBazR0ver on March 01, 2010, 10:27:22 pm
I'll remind you of JR statement.

\"We need to improve our fan base paticularly on season ticket sales\"

Can someone explain to me how season ticket sales will be improved to achieve this objective ?
Title: Re:Everyone get a grip
Post by: big fat yorkshire pudding on March 01, 2010, 10:31:17 pm
I'll be doing it, my simple saving that I do every year means I'll be able to afford it again.  I've had to cut a few more things out my lifestyle this year to do the things I want to do, pretty simple really.  I do think there's a lack of financial planning in our society, people should think a little longer term, unfortunately most don't.
Title: Re:Everyone get a grip
Post by: Snods Shinpad 2 on March 01, 2010, 10:33:13 pm
I can't wait for the matchday prices to be announced.  :laugh:
Title: Re:Everyone get a grip
Post by: MrFrost on March 01, 2010, 10:33:25 pm
big fat yorkshire pudding wrote:
Quote
I'll be doing it, my simple saving that I do every year means I'll be able to afford it again.  I've had to cut a few more things out my lifestyle this year to do the things I want to do, pretty simple really.  I do think there's a lack of financial planning in our society, people should think a little longer term, unfortunately most don't.


I'm actually surprised no one has mentioned the vast increase for a family who go to watch the Rovers. potentially £350 in category C. Is that justified? How many families could afford that, even if they have tried to budget?

The families I know who go now will NOT shell out over a grand for season tickets.
Title: Re:Everyone get a grip
Post by: JamieM on March 01, 2010, 10:36:15 pm
Unfortunately i'm not that rich RTID, i just anticipated an increased ST rise and have saved accordingly. I only have to buy 2 so it's not so bad i suppose.

I do have empathy for others who have to pay for families Nudga, your making me out to be an ignorant right-winger!

I just feel that everyone is overreacting on this one, making it out to be a swirling vortex of impending doom, when actually it's just a modest price rise if you sort your organised about it.
Title: Re:Everyone get a grip
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on March 01, 2010, 11:12:12 pm
dijit8 wrote:
Quote
I got one of these credit cards a few years ago.

0% interest on season tickets

http://www.barclaysfootball.co.uk/


No point in telling us. They've stopped doing them.
Title: Re:Everyone get a grip
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on March 01, 2010, 11:15:29 pm
JamieM wrote:
Quote
Also, we have ONE MONTH to get the early bird prices - everyone else is saying that this is too short. How much time do you need? The process of buying a season ticket is so simple and quick.


I'll just cut'n'paste what I've already said in another thread.

Oh, and btw, it's not the increase that bothers me, I expected it this year. It's the dishonourable way the club has acted to it's loyalest customers.

Quote
a Cat A STH, and on a MONTHLY salary.

This has completely stuffed up any financial planning I've got - and I'm booked to have a new boiler installed at £1400 next week. Suddenly I'm expected to find another £440 at the drop of a non-existant hint. And I only know about this because I happen to come on this site - how many hundreds in my situation still have no inkling about this at all because DRFC cares not a jot about telling anyone?

Thanks for FCUK ALL, whoever is responsible for this kick in the teeth.

Unless, of course, the intended effect was ALWAYS to make people have to cough up the higher amount. Which would be morally bankrupt and another kick in the teeth.
Title: Re:Everyone get a grip
Post by: MrFrost on March 01, 2010, 11:18:22 pm
Can I just ask, do people think the Cat C increases after July are reasonable?
Title: Re:Everyone get a grip
Post by: CusworthRovers on March 02, 2010, 01:10:02 am
No I don't.

I will be renewing and I count as your heavily featured family of 4 in Cat C. I'm not here to gloat and fully understand the cost implications felt by all. Each to their own on how much they can afford and how much they value their private family needs against following DRFC.
We all have different limits/values on how much we can afford to spend on following Rovers. I wouldn't knock anybody who couldn't afford it and instead put a greater emphasis on personal outgoings centred around their households.

I have had times in my life when I couldn't afford to scratch my arse and Rovers were the last thing on my mind. I've had times in my life when work or having young kids (babies) as been far more important than DRFC even when I've had the cash.

A few factors:

The kids pricing structure has been way under priced for some time now.
We have had no significant rise in ST's for how many seasons?
We still look very good value in comparable to any other CCC club, inclusive of the, shall we say, Northern working class area clubs.




To think we could stay at the same price or even have a reduction in price (which we would all like) whilst ever we are in CCC is pure fantasy in all honesty. It was always coming folks IMO, more surpised, as many on here were, that it has never risen whilst in the CCC. Regardless of any gimmicks/quotes that we get a free Prem ST or all the money is needed to jetison us up the table with quality signings is immaterial, be it to happen or not IMO. The price will need to go up anyway looking at the current market.

Yes, it makes you whince, but it's been coming IMO and we have got away with it until now.

The marketing of this new scheme has been utter shite, granted. The deadline is tight, granted. Some may say (and it's a fair point) that we have had probs 9 months to save for a ST, if we know it's always a struggle to fork out a large amount at once, why wait til the last minute, then scream blue murder.
Title: Re:Everyone get a grip
Post by: en aitch on March 02, 2010, 06:58:25 am
Every year there is the \"moan\" about the pricing, but it isn't about the money this time, it's about the timing. As many have said bringing it forward to March 31 takes away 2 months of sensible budgeting - If you're going to do it, tell us at the fecking start of the season, not near the end!

On a purely selfish note, if lots of CatC people aren't renewing I may give up my Cat A and make a suitable saving by moving to the corner ;)
Title: Re:Everyone get a grip
Post by: mushRTID on March 02, 2010, 07:37:24 am
i had the barclays footy credit card last year and have assumed as they are not taking new orders they dont do that anymore. My sainsburys credit card is on order, 10 months 0% interest. Just hope theres no charge for using it.
Title: Re:Everyone get a grip
Post by: nice one rovers on March 02, 2010, 08:35:45 am
This forum is becoming dominated by proper moaners.   It's only a month earlier than the usual renewal date.    Not many things in life go down in price,and we've been getting really good value for the money. Get on with it, if you can afford the season ticket, buy it. If you can't ,dont.       Go watch Moorends stingers instead, thats cheaper.    Stop moaning, or phone praise or grumble with your negativity.
Title: Re:Everyone get a grip
Post by: DaveDRFC on March 02, 2010, 08:51:19 am
mushRTID wrote:
Quote
i had the barclays footy credit card last year and have assumed as they are not taking new orders they dont do that anymore. My sainsburys credit card is on order, 10 months 0% interest. Just hope theres no charge for using it.


If you've already got the Barclaycard you'll have no problem mate, they still honour the offer to existing cardholders, that's what I did last year. Mine doesn't expire until next year so I could put my tickets on that, but I am still loathe to do it as even though it's interest free you still have to pay it back! I only fully paid off this season's last week and now they want my money for next season already!
Title: Re:Everyone get a grip
Post by: Filo on March 02, 2010, 08:54:44 am
DaveDRFC wrote:
Quote
but I am still loathe to do it as even though it's interest free you still have to pay it back!





Thats the concept of borrowing, bit of a t**t when they want paying back isn`t it?  :laugh:
Title: Re:Everyone get a grip
Post by: Lytham Rover on March 02, 2010, 09:10:20 am
DonnyBazR0ver wrote:
Quote
I'll remind you of JR statement.

\"We need to improve our fan base paticularly on season ticket sales\"

Can someone explain to me how season ticket sales will be improved to achieve this objective ?


it doesnt say increase it says improve back to bob g a nd his ab1  etc
Title: Re:Everyone get a grip
Post by: DaveDRFC on March 02, 2010, 09:19:38 am
Filo wrote:
Quote
DaveDRFC wrote:
Quote
but I am still loathe to do it as even though it's interest free you still have to pay it back!





Thats the concept of borrowing, bit of a t**t when they want paying back isn`t it?  :laugh:


You know what I mean, at the time you think 'oh that's fine, ages to pay it back!' but when your still paying it off 9 months later it gets to be a bit of a bind! To be fair in my current circumstances it is money that would be better spent elsewhere but we all know football spending and common sense don't really go together!
Title: Re:Everyone get a grip
Post by: en aitch on March 02, 2010, 10:16:52 am
It's only a month earlier than the usual renewal date

March 31st - May 31st .... 2 Months.

Not moaning, not a problem - this is my last season as an STH .... Armthorpe Welfare maybe - Moorends Stingers, I don't think so!
Title: Re:Everyone get a grip
Post by: mushRTID on March 02, 2010, 10:33:43 am
DaveDRFC wrote:
Quote
mushRTID wrote:
Quote
i had the barclays footy credit card last year and have assumed as they are not taking new orders they dont do that anymore. My sainsburys credit card is on order, 10 months 0% interest. Just hope theres no charge for using it.


If you've already got the Barclaycard you'll have no problem mate, they still honour the offer to existing cardholders, that's what I did last year. Mine doesn't expire until next year so I could put my tickets on that, but I am still loathe to do it as even though it's interest free you still have to pay it back! I only fully paid off this season's last week and now they want my money for next season already!


Thanks for that mate, I do still have the card so will use that.
Title: Re:Everyone get a grip
Post by: Nudga on March 02, 2010, 08:02:21 pm
BobG wrote:
Quote
Don't mean to pry Nudga, but surely 're-financing existing loans' is exactly what you, and others, should do to help pay for next years' ST? I've just done that for somone I know and she's knocked well over 70 quid a month off through doing really simple things  - and she only earns about 250 quid a week.

BobG


No Bob, re-financing existing loans is to help pay for the rising fuel costs to get me to work and college and my missus to work. All it's done is soften the blow of HAVING to spend £250/£300 a month in fuel. This saving that we have made is the difference between 80ltrs of diesel. So still not enough money to go towards a season ticket.
Title: Re:Everyone get a grip
Post by: newtownjoe1 on March 02, 2010, 09:01:23 pm
I think most people are more upset about the way they found out about the price rise, and even more so by the new time limit,bringing it forward by 6-8 weeks is a shallow move by the bean counters.It could have been avoided by good communication but alas the dept concerned has been inept to say the least over the last couple of seasons.Most people will be able to absorb the increase but there will be quite a few who will not be able to do it.For these people i feel sorry for and hope that in time they will be able to again buy ST`s.I remember the Irish Fa introduced block booking of tickets for our internationals and i could not afford to stump up for 3 matches all at once,so i lost out and now watch all home games on the TV.Big difference i asking for 60 quid and asking for 180 quid in a matter of weeks.
Title: Re:Everyone get a grip
Post by: RobTheRover on March 03, 2010, 01:53:13 am
JamieM wrote:
Quote
£30 season ticket for under 11's? Whilst it's brlliant for families with young children it's no way to run a business.


Actually, its EXACTLY the right way to run a business.  Hook them under 11 year old and you have them for life.  Think about the enormous amount of money getting 3000 under 11's hooked brings in over say 25 years as an adult supporter - 3000 x £400 x 25 = £30 million quid.  Thats potential money lost to our neighbouring clubs if we dont make it easy for the kids to come (and remember, they usually bring at least one responsible adult with them).  Barnsley are still offering a FREE childs ST with every adult ST sold.  They understand how important getting the new blood in is to the long term ambition of the club.  For the families living in the villages on the Doncaster/Barnsley periphery who havent jumped either way yet, it could come down to a purely monetary decision.  We need to make sure they choose us.
Title: Re:Everyone get a grip
Post by: JamieM on March 03, 2010, 11:51:16 am
RobTheRover wrote:
Quote
JamieM wrote:
Quote
£30 season ticket for under 11's? Whilst it's brlliant for families with young children it's no way to run a business.


Actually, its EXACTLY the right way to run a business.  Hook them under 11 year old and you have them for life.  Think about the enormous amount of money getting 3000 under 11's hooked brings in over say 25 years as an adult supporter - 3000 x £400 x 25 = £30 million quid.  Thats potential money lost to our neighbouring clubs if we dont make it easy for the kids to come (and remember, they usually bring at least one responsible adult with them).  Barnsley are still offering a FREE childs ST with every adult ST sold.  They understand how important getting the new blood in is to the long term ambition of the club.  For the families living in the villages on the Doncaster/Barnsley periphery who havent jumped either way yet, it could come down to a purely monetary decision.  We need to make sure they choose us.


Good point Rob. However i see it differently.

We've had these great prices in Cat C for a few seasons now and it should be enough (given our success) to have a considerable amount of youngsters ''hooked''.

I see it as an opportunity cost situation. We can carry on with these low prices yet deal with the consequence of a reduced revenue for DRFC thus limiting our progress towards ''the next level''.

If we remain stagnant from the above situation (in terms of the league table) i would argue that we would attract less supporters, even with these great prices. Let's face it, the best way to attract support is success with money second i feel (especially considering the prices of ST's of our local rivals).

However, if we increase the prices of Cat C the already ''hooked'' supporters will still want to come thus increasing the revenue available for DRFC.

In this situation we would be able to begin our financial pursuit for the acquisition (sp?) of Sharp and Shackell which will, in my opinion, increase the amount of supporters coming to the Keepmoat (given that we gradually progress up the table, which is very likely with these signings) even with the price increases.

I know all this is very generalised and crude but you get my drift.
Title: Re:Everyone get a grip
Post by: bobjimwilly on March 03, 2010, 12:08:59 pm
JamieM wrote:
Quote
Good point Rob. However i see it differently.

We've had these great prices in Cat C for a few seasons now and it should be enough (given our success) to have a considerable amount of youngsters ''hooked''.

I see it as an opportunity cost situation. We can carry on with these low prices yet deal with the consequence of a reduced revenue for DRFC thus limiting our progress towards ''the next level''.

If we remain stagnant from the above situation (in terms of the league table) i would argue that we would attract less supporters, even with these great prices. Let's face it, the best way to attract support is success with money second i feel (especially considering the prices of ST's of our local rivals).

However, if we increase the prices of Cat C the already ''hooked'' supporters will still want to come thus increasing the revenue available for DRFC.

In this situation we would be able to begin our financial pursuit for the acquisition (sp?) of Sharp and Shackell which will, in my opinion, increase the amount of supporters coming to the Keepmoat (given that we gradually progress up the table, which is very likely with these signings) even with the price increases.

I know all this is very generalised and crude but you get my drift.


It's not all kids in Cat C you know? In fact, where I sit in South East corner it is mainly adults?  :huh:
Title: Re:Everyone get a grip
Post by: JamieM on March 03, 2010, 12:12:44 pm
Really? Well i would never have guessed.

Rob was referring specifically to kids in the Cat C and so i replied referring specifically in the case of the kids in Cat C too.
Title: Re:Everyone get a grip
Post by: WSBBA_Joe on March 03, 2010, 12:14:52 pm
I would pay any amount of money to see the love of my life Doncaster Rovers, especialy with Sir John Ryan is raising the prices for a very good reason. Just would like a longer timescale to buy.
Title: Re:Everyone get a grip
Post by: bobjimwilly on March 03, 2010, 02:30:46 pm
JamieM wrote:
Quote
Really? Well i would never have guessed.

Rob was referring specifically to kids in the Cat C and so i replied referring specifically in the case of the kids in Cat C too.


I apologise. Had misread Robs post.  :byebye