Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: paddymacca on June 10, 2010, 06:58:52 pm
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ONLY JOKING :laugh:
After reading some of the doom and gloom on here surrounding the players we have missed out on, i can see how easy it is to get disheartened, but just remember how far we have come in such a short space of time. Competing with clubs such as Leicester, Leeds and Burnley a few years ago would have seemed crazy, but in reality, although we are in the same footballing division as them financially we are not.
And to be honest... i actually respect a football management team such as JR and the board, SOD and ROK for NOT jeopardizing the future of this magnificent club by paying 'silly money and wages' for players. I wanted Kennedy here but at the end of the day he was only just out of league 2 for the first time in his career and has signed, probably for crazy wages, for leicester.
There is plenty more players out there to go at and i have every confidence in SOD an JR to assemble another great team, weather that be loans players or players from league 2 i don't care, with the budget Rovers have had and the players we have bought in for relatively small amounts of money over the last couple of years we have shown we are a quality side.
Ok, we don't have the biggest names in football but the football we play with the players we have is wonderful to watch no matter what first eleven sean put out there. And that is testament to SOD and ROK and the way they manage the game.
I would like to finish this post by offering a name in to the hat for a potential summer signing. DANNY GREEN from Dagenham. He has really impressed me this season particularly in the League 2 play off final. Worth a punt maybe?
R.T.I.D :scarf: :scarf:
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It depends which way you look at it. We are so close to a £90 million pay cheque (as we aren’t a bad side) and therefore, we have an excellent chance of promotion especially as this league is a flipping poor league, if the truth be told, that is. So surely, our board are a “tiny weenie” bit tempted to spend the going rate, to get a massive investment back in return?
What’s our board’s risk? They lose small change. What can they gain by spending, or taking a risk (for a couple of years)? Thousands more fans gained and £90 million squid if we succeed. Surely with our board’s wealth, it’s worth a risk?
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Surely with your own you could put a couple of hunmdred quid on Rovers being promoted and giving the proceeds if any to the VSC? Not too much for you to risk is it? I am not keen on telling others to risk money either. Until you put in a significant amount yourself then let the board deal with their money as they will.
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Barmby Rover wrote:
Surely with your own you could put a couple of hunmdred quid on Rovers being promoted and giving the proceeds if any to the VSC? Not too much for you to risk is it? I am not keen on telling others to risk money either. Until you put in a significant amount yourself then let the board deal with their money as they will.
I buy season tickets. I spend more of my little wealth (in %) than the board do.
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Love the way folks think £90m is given to you and you get to keep it all when the dream ends.
Promotion means a massive hike in current players contracts. It means bringing in a load of high-priced journeymen on stupid wages. It means a greater tax bill, too.
Why are Hull City in financial trouble? Couldn't they just bail themselves out with the £90m they must have stashed in the bank?
And what of the players you come down with on Premiership wages? You cannot terminate their contracts, can you? So you're saddled with a Prem wage bill for 2, 3 or even 4 years because the only players of premiership quality that we could possibly attract in the face of competition from other premiership teams would demand ridiculous wages and long-term contracts.
Just try and see a bit of persprective. It's not a simple case of spend £1m and get £90m back. Past history suggests most teams that fall out of the Prem do so saddled with debt and they also attract gates that are already double ours. I doubt we'd even sell out against teams like Wigan in the Prem.
The promised land comes at a high price. Bit like buying a nice second hand high performance sports car. Doesn't cost much more to buy but when you try and insure it and then have it serviced you suddenly realise your folly. As for the running costs...
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Donnybob wrote:
Love the way folks think £90m is given to you and you get to keep it all when the dream ends.
Promotion means a massive hike in current players contracts. It means bringing in a load of high-priced journeymen on stupid wages. It means a greater tax bill, too.
Why are Hull City in financial trouble? Couldn't they just bail themselves out with the £90m they must have stashed in the bank?
And what of the players you come down with on Premiership wages? You cannot terminate their contracts, can you? So you're saddled with a Prem wage bill for 2, 3 or even 4 years because the only players of premiership quality that we could possibly attract in the face of competition from other premiership teams would demand ridiculous wages and long-term contracts.
Just try and see a bit of persprective. It's not a simple case of spend £1m and get £90m back. Past history suggests most teams that fall out of the Prem do so saddled with debt and they also attract gates that are already double ours. I doubt we'd even sell out against teams like Wigan in the Prem.
The promised land comes at a high price. Bit like buying a nice second hand high performance sports car. Doesn't cost much more to buy but when you try and insure it and then have it serviced you suddenly realise your folly. As for the running costs...
Blackpool could keep current players, so yes you could be 90 million better off.
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Donnybob wrote:
Love the way folks think £90m is given to you and you get to keep it all when the dream ends.
Promotion means a massive hike in current players contracts. It means bringing in a load of high-priced journeymen on stupid wages. It means a greater tax bill, too.
Why are Hull City in financial trouble? Couldn't they just bail themselves out with the £90m they must have stashed in the bank?
And what of the players you come down with on Premiership wages? You cannot terminate their contracts, can you? So you're saddled with a Prem wage bill for 2, 3 or even 4 years because the only players of premiership quality that we could possibly attract in the face of competition from other premiership teams would demand ridiculous wages and long-term contracts.
Just try and see a bit of persprective. It's not a simple case of spend £1m and get £90m back. Past history suggests most teams that fall out of the Prem do so saddled with debt and they also attract gates that are already double ours. I doubt we'd even sell out against teams like Wigan in the Prem.
The promised land comes at a high price. Bit like buying a nice second hand high performance sports car. Doesn't cost much more to buy but when you try and insure it and then have it serviced you suddenly realise your folly. As for the running costs...
Hull dont get the new payment.
And they were a good team but badly managed. They should have consolidated but Phil brown being the tosser that he is......
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Donnybob wrote:
Love the way folks think £90m is given to you and you get to keep it all when the dream ends.
Promotion means a massive hike in current players contracts. It means bringing in a load of high-priced journeymen on stupid wages. It means a greater tax bill, too.
Why are Hull City in financial trouble? Couldn't they just bail themselves out with the £90m they must have stashed in the bank?
And what of the players you come down with on Premiership wages? You cannot terminate their contracts, can you? So you're saddled with a Prem wage bill for 2, 3 or even 4 years because the only players of premiership quality that we could possibly attract in the face of competition from other premiership teams would demand ridiculous wages and long-term contracts.
Just try and see a bit of persprective. It's not a simple case of spend £1m and get £90m back. Past history suggests most teams that fall out of the Prem do so saddled with debt and they also attract gates that are already double ours. I doubt we'd even sell out against teams like Wigan in the Prem.
The promised land comes at a high price. Bit like buying a nice second hand high performance sports car. Doesn't cost much more to buy but when you try and insure it and then have it serviced you suddenly realise your folly. As for the running costs...
I remember a time when the championship was the promised land, does the same statement still apply?
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topnotch_Donny wrote:
Barmby Rover wrote:
Surely with your own you could put a couple of hunmdred quid on Rovers being promoted and giving the proceeds if any to the VSC? Not too much for you to risk is it? I am not keen on telling others to risk money either. Until you put in a significant amount yourself then let the board deal with their money as they will.
I buy season tickets. I spend more of my little wealth (in %) than the board do.
No, you buy a product, just as if you spent your money to go to the cinema. That is not an investment in the club, do you own a share? No, thought not. that is taking risks with money.
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Barmby Rover wrote:
topnotch_Donny wrote:
Barmby Rover wrote:
Surely with your own you could put a couple of hunmdred quid on Rovers being promoted and giving the proceeds if any to the VSC? Not too much for you to risk is it? I am not keen on telling others to risk money either. Until you put in a significant amount yourself then let the board deal with their money as they will.
I buy season tickets. I spend more of my little wealth (in %) than the board do.
No, you buy a product, just as if you spent your money to go to the cinema. That is not an investment in the club, do you own a share? No, thought not. that is taking risks with money.
Have no option to buy share? its not on the stock market as it is a limited company.
My money goes into the club. Without folk buying season tickets, there would be no rovers.
The board can make money back, our cash is dead end.
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You buy shares when you subscribe to the VSC, not that you would know that. The board of any fotball club tends not to make money back if you hadn't noticed, ask the Chairmen( or former ones) of Newcastle, Portsmouth, Crystal Palace....I could go on. Football money is generally dead money, and to get back to the original point, I don't tell others to spend when I am not prepared to do the same.
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Barmby Rover wrote:
You buy shares when you subscribe to the VSC, not that you would know that. The board of any fotball club tends not to make money back if you hadn't noticed, ask the Chairmen( or former ones) of Newcastle, Portsmouth, Crystal Palace....I could go on. Football money is generally dead money, and to get back to the original point, I don't tell others to spend when I am not prepared to do the same.
PMSL vsc share isn't much. I was talking proper shares not shares to be part of a side bench :laugh:
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Barmby Rover wrote:
You buy shares when you subscribe to the VSC, not that you would know that. The board of any fotball club tends not to make money back if you hadn't noticed, ask the Chairmen( or former ones) of Newcastle, Portsmouth, Crystal Palace....I could go on. Football money is generally dead money, and to get back to the original point, I don't tell others to spend when I am not prepared to do the same.
I do spend though. Correct me if i'm wrong, but weren't you the bloke that never bought a season ticket? And you can get money back in football and if you run a limited company into the ground, you can start up a new adventure the day after.
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You really can't see the plot can you TND? Take a deep breath, relax, and then try reading this thread again with a determination to seek understanding of the points, the issues, behind the words. The issues are real. They won't go away just beacuse you choose to blame them on 'bad management' or assume that another club needn't sign anybody at all. Come on. Admit it. That response was just childish. Think about the issues - not the people or the words people write.
Cheers
BobG
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BobG wrote:
You really can't see the plot can you TND? Take a deep breath, relax, and then try reading this thread again with a determination to seek understanding of the points, the issues, behind the words. The issues are real. They won't go away just beacuse you choose to blame them on 'bad management' or assume that another club needn't sign anybody at all. Come on. Admit it. That response was just childish. Think about the issues - not the people or the words people write.
Cheers
BobG
I understand all too well what happens, thanks.
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BobG wrote:
You really can't see the plot can you TND? Take a deep breath, relax, and then try reading this thread again with a determination to seek understanding of the points, the issues, behind the words. The issues are real. They won't go away just beacuse you choose to blame them on 'bad management' or assume that another club needn't sign anybody at all. Come on. Admit it. That response was just childish. Think about the issues - not the people or the words people write.
Cheers
BobG
Wasting our time here Bob, incapable of understanding the point about not spending others money for them.
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Sadly, 'twas ever thus' Barmby. I've just read one of today's lengthy threads about how crap this club is. It's full of the usual suspects mouthing off about things aabout they, and we, know absolutely sod all. But whilst that is bad enough, what's even worse is that not one of them seems to have drawn any conclusions at all from the experience of 12 months ago.
BobG
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Ok the original poster goes on to tell how much debt leicester et al are in, then goes to say we cant compete financially with them?
I know we are operating at a lose, but we are in better shape than most and they take risk because they all have big plans.
Us we are just on borrowed time crossing our fingers hoping that the inevitable doesn't happen this season.
Its all good, but we will go in reverse soon and see the likes of Blackpool become giants.
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I do wish that the \"this club is crap\" brigade would go and support one of the wonderful clubs and leave us to marvel at how well we do as a relative minnow in this division. I quite enjoy it at the moment, smiling from above at our \"big\" S.Yorkshire neighbours, letting them take on our players to maybe, just maybe, have a chance of competing with us again. Knowing that we can afford to do what we did last year again and again until the club can develop financially enough to go to the next level without bankrupting anybody.
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Barmby Rover wrote:
I do wish that the \"this club is crap\" brigade would go and support one of the wonderful clubs and leave us to marvel at how well we do as a relative minnow in this division. I quite enjoy it at the moment, smiling from above at our \"big\" S.Yorkshire neighbours, letting them take on our players to maybe, just maybe, have a chance of competing with us again. Knowing that we can afford to do what we did last year again and again until the club can develop financially enough to go to the next level without bankrupting anybody.
You are a dying ignorant breed. You think you are a better class of fan, yet you don't even go to all games.
Piss off and support york if you want good old times.
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Yup. Point proved right there. QED
BobG
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topnotch_Donny wrote:
Ok the original poster goes on to tell how much debt leicester et al are in, then goes to say we cant compete financially with them?
I know we are operating at a lose, but we are in better shape than most and they take risk because they all have big plans.
Us we are just on borrowed time crossing our fingers hoping that the inevitable doesn't happen this season.
Its all good, but we will go in reverse soon and see the likes of Blackpool become giants.
Yes TND, some clubs are speculating to accumulate (as Blackpool did to a small extent), however the point remains that the money that you wish to speculate with isn't..........YOURS!
However , we all share your frustrations but we will sort it out as we always do.
Clubs are going to have to learn to live within their financial restraints even the bigger city clubs like Leicester , Forest, Leeds etc. I would prefer we do it now (albeit not quite breaking even) and watch the game unfold. Our chance will come and we will be well prepared structurally for it both on and off the field.
In the meantime , I am pleased that our Board are not letting guns be levelled at their heads from greedy players and their agents.
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Careful Barmy, I'm starting to like you.
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hoolahoop wrote:
topnotch_Donny wrote:
Ok the original poster goes on to tell how much debt leicester et al are in, then goes to say we cant compete financially with them?
I know we are operating at a lose, but we are in better shape than most and they take risk because they all have big plans.
Us we are just on borrowed time crossing our fingers hoping that the inevitable doesn't happen this season.
Its all good, but we will go in reverse soon and see the likes of Blackpool become giants.
Yes TND, some clubs are speculating to accumulate (as Blackpool did to a small extent), however the point remains that the money that you wish to speculate with isn't..........YOURS!
However , we all share your frustrations but we will sort it out as we always do.
Clubs are going to have to learn to live within their financial restraints even the bigger city clubs like Leicester , Forest, Leeds etc. I would prefer we do it now (albeit not quite breaking even) and watch the game unfold. Our chance will come and we will be well prepared structurally for it both on and off the field.
In the meantime , I am pleased that our Board are not letting guns be levelled at their heads from greedy players and their agents.
Yes, but surely we should take advantage in this situation? We will never have a better opportunity, and we know we will lose fans to west Yorkshire again soon :(
Have we seen the best of Rovers in our life time :huh: Maybe folk will go back to supporting man u and Chelsea again now.
You know what they say abut the brave :blush:
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They're usually the first that fall in battle?
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Just to add a little bit more to a pointless argument - how much do you believe we need to spend to compete with these clubs? It is very easy to quote Blackpool as an example and how much they invested last year - whilst ignoring Forest - £12 million, Ipswich £8 million, Coventry, Bristol C, Cardiff and the rest and the success that money brought them f... all. Throwing money around is no guarantee of anything (other than problems further down the line in our case), investing an amount you can afford carefully & wisely is.
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wilts rover wrote:
Just to add a little bit more to a pointless argument - how much do you believe we need to spend to compete with these clubs? It is very easy to quote Blackpool as an example and how much they invested last year - whilst ignoring Forest - £12 million, Ipswich £8 million, Coventry, Bristol C, Cardiff and the rest and the success that money brought them f... all. Throwing money around is no guarantee of anything (other than problems further down the line in our case), investing an amount you can afford carefully & wisely is.
I'd say just don't get complacent and spend on a striker because that is what has saved our ass in the championship thus far.
Its not rocket science. We are going down without a striker.
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I don't suppose either JR or SOD have ever thought of that. Good point. Well done. I'll see if I can get Rob to pass it on. It could change the entire season.
Cheers
BobG
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BobG wrote:
I don't suppose either JR or SOD have ever thought of that. Good point. Well done. I'll see if I can get Rob to pass it on. It could change the entire season.
Cheers
BobG
I got the feeling that jr was getting complacent. This was at the end of last season when we pulled it around after that dreadful start.
The more we escape the inevitable, the more we get over confident.
Two people have saved our arse.
Heffs
Sharp
edit the season before last
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End of the day I'll support Rovers be it in this league or the conference just as I always have. When you look at the club everything's going ok, then you look at the fans, we used to be so optimistic and now half the fans are chuffing miserable. That in itself is blooming crazy.
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big fat yorkshire pudding wrote:
End of the day I'll support Rovers be it in this league or the conference just as I always have. When you look at the club everything's going ok, then you look at the fans, we used to be so optimistic and now half the fans are chuffing miserable. That in itself is blooming crazy.
Problem is, most jumped on the bandwagon as it rolled up. What happens when that buzz stops and we go down again?
From history, we will have 2k fans if that. Even in times of low gate price, we couldn't muster 3k.
What comes around goes around vice versa. I see us going back down now. Hold on to your hats, it's going to be a bumpy ride :blush:
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topnotch_Donny wrote:
big fat yorkshire pudding wrote:
End of the day I'll support Rovers be it in this league or the conference just as I always have. When you look at the club everything's going ok, then you look at the fans, we used to be so optimistic and now half the fans are chuffing miserable. That in itself is blooming crazy.
Problem is, most jumped on the bandwagon as it rolled up. What happens when that buzz stops and we go down again?
From history, we will have 2k fans if that. Even in times of low gate price, we couldn't muster 3k.
What comes around goes around vice versa. I see us going back down now. Hold on to your hats, it's going to be a bumpy ride :blush:
Ah mate, you messed up on your last post. I could see your point for the majority of this thread and what you were trying to say. However, whilst we haven't signed anyone, there are 8 weeks left and the season doesn't start tomorrow! I agree it will be our hardest of the three seasons we've been in the Championship, but lets not go jumping the gun, yeah?
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Carling in full flight. Welcome back Captain
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CusworthRovers wrote:
Carling in full flight. Welcome back Captain
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Don't usually do those but you beat me to it by about 3 seconds!
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It can't possibly be Carling. He's actually coherent after midnight.
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It's him, he said so himself on another thread, probably knowing noone would notice, but us fans.
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CusworthRovers wrote:
Carling in full flight. Welcome back Captain
You was reading the other night when i fessed to being Carling. I was expecting you to find me out after 5 posts :P
And am i Carling? Muahahahaahaaha
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I always have a similar debate with my best mate who keeps saying we've got one of the richest boards in the country, why don't they put their hand in their pockets ?
Well they do. They underwrite the operating losses and putting a reported £1m each in to the club just to tick over is not chicken feed.
I would feel very uncomfortable if the club all of a sudden started chucking silly money around. I may be old fashioned but players wages have spiralled out of all proportion and despite the recession, it's been reported that players wages rose again by an avarage 10% last season.
Shackell, Ward etc, took higher offers from other clubs and good players they are, I would still question their value for money.
The money we are reputedly willing to lay out for Billy is huge compared to where we've been and I never thought I would associate Rovers with £1m deals !
Should the board elect to push the boundaries even further it can only go one way and that's tits up.
I applaud the board for sticking with the prudent policy and with recent trading, it has shown we have been getting value for money with the players who have moved on.
Disappointing that it is to lose out on preferred signings, don't go breaking the bank on my behalf. I'm sure our board didn't get rich by throwing money down the plug hole !
I'm at the point now where I've just about managed to afford my season ticket. I wouldn't want the club to bankroll a team of superstars only to put ticket prices out of my comfort zone or that of many other fans. I'd rather pay less, watch a good honest game of football with player who are making a good honest living and feel I'm getting reasonable entertainment at a reasonable price.
It's funny but the more we seem to pay for tickets, the booing at matches get even louder ! is there a link somewhere ?
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DonnyBazR0ver wrote:
I always have a similar debate with my best mate who keeps saying we've got one of the richest boards in the country, why don't they put their hand in their pockets ?
Well they do. They underwrite the operating losses and putting a reported £1m each in to the club just to tick over is not chicken feed.
I would feel very uncomfortable if the club all of a sudden started chucking silly money around. I may be old fashioned but players wages have spiralled out of all proportion and despite the recession, it's been reported that players wages rose again by an avarage 10% last season.
Shackell, Ward etc, took higher offers from other clubs and good players they are, I would still question their value for money.
The money we are reputedly willing to lay out for Billy is huge compared to where we've been and I never thought I would associate Rovers with £1m deals !
Should the board elect to push the boundaries even further it can only go one way and that's tits up.
I applaud the board for sticking with the prudent policy and with recent trading, it has shown we have been getting value for money with the players who have moved on.
Disappointing that it is to lose out on preferred signings, don't go breaking the bank on my behalf. I'm sure our board didn't get rich by throwing money down the plug hole !
I'm at the point now where I've just about managed to afford my season ticket. I wouldn't want the club to bankroll a team of superstars only to put ticket prices out of my comfort zone or that of many other fans. I'd rather pay less, watch a good honest game of football with player who are making a good honest living and feel I'm getting reasonable entertainment at a reasonable price.
It's funny but the more we seem to pay for tickets, the booing at matches get even louder ! is there a link somewhere ?
Its hard to tell where the money goes. The only thing i hate is stuff like, we wanted to keep wellens and milss, yet the transfer money went back in the copper jar?
Because mills and wellens were sold, and the board saying we wanted to keep them, you'd have thought the money would be straight on replacements as we wouldn't have the cash and still have the player if they werent sold.
Load of spin and that's why Donny folk are not turning up.
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topnotch_Donny wrote:
Ok the original poster goes on to tell how much debt leicester et al are in, then goes to say we cant compete financially with them?
I know we are operating at a lose, but we are in better shape than most and they take risk because they all have big plans.
Us we are just on borrowed time crossing our fingers hoping that the inevitable doesn't happen this season.
Its all good, but we will go in reverse soon and see the likes of Blackpool become giants.
If you're so dissatisfied with how things are being done at the Rovers, why don't you just go and follow a big spending club???
I really, REALLY!!! wish you would.
(Note the careful avoidance of suggesting he go and 'support' a big spending club, he clearly doesn't know the meaning of the word)
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i_ateallthepies wrote:
topnotch_Donny wrote:
Ok the original poster goes on to tell how much debt leicester et al are in, then goes to say we cant compete financially with them?
I know we are operating at a lose, but we are in better shape than most and they take risk because they all have big plans.
Us we are just on borrowed time crossing our fingers hoping that the inevitable doesn't happen this season.
Its all good, but we will go in reverse soon and see the likes of Blackpool become giants.
If you're so dissatisfied with how things are being done at the Rovers, why don't you just go and follow a big spending club???
I really, REALLY!!! wish you would.
(Note the careful avoidance of suggesting he go and 'support' a big spending club, he clearly doesn't know the meaning of the word)
I wont support any other club than rovers. Ive supported them since i was four.
I know something though, most of doncaster will support other clubs. Good job folk dont take your advice as there would be no donny fans left.
Now jog on sunshine