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Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: snods big brother on June 27, 2010, 05:01:34 pm

Title: Capello
Post by: snods big brother on June 27, 2010, 05:01:34 pm
Can I start the Capello out thread?
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: mushRTID on June 27, 2010, 05:04:07 pm
Redknapp in.
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: mugnapper on June 27, 2010, 05:06:57 pm
I was just gonna suggest Harry, but with his court case with Mandaric Vs HMRC still outstanding and other 'incidents' in his past, the buffers at the FA would never sanction him!
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: washyrover on June 27, 2010, 05:20:11 pm
Please leave ,P.S. take rooney with you.
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: Chris on June 27, 2010, 05:33:06 pm
Sean O'Driscoll to take the job part time...
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: graingrover on June 27, 2010, 05:38:18 pm
Sky TV should put a Sky team of Englishmen in the Premiership like they are in the Tour de France! To narrow the blame onto Capello is understandable but has been done before in respect of every previous English manager and resolves nothing fundamentally.
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: hoolahoop on June 27, 2010, 05:40:16 pm
washyrover wrote:
Quote
Please leave ,P.S. take rooney with you.


Of course it was all Rooney's fault........ ffs don't talk bollox! Where
were the balls to him, who was with him when he was looking to play the ball ?
Easy to put all the blame on that lad  isn't it? I take it he was responsible for all the goals we conceeded too..........Jeez.
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: LongbridgeMGRover on June 27, 2010, 05:57:46 pm
look on the bright side. at least we won't be seeing David Cameron pretending to be interested in football and revelling in a nationwide feelgood factor, with Churchillian undertones.
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: Snods Shinpad 2 on June 27, 2010, 06:03:13 pm
Capello's agent has played a blinder. £12 million quid to get rid of him now apparently.

The FA are £350 million in debt, so I'm not sure they can afford to get rid of him.

I can't see Wembley selling out for internationals in the near future either. Looks like they've made a right ol' mess of things.
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: Thinwhiteduke on June 27, 2010, 06:07:33 pm
Rigoglioso wrote:
Quote
hoolahoop wrote:
Quote
washyrover wrote:
Quote
Please leave ,P.S. take rooney with you.


Of course it was all Rooney's fault........ ffs don't talk bollox! Where
were the balls to him, who was with him when he was looking to play the ball ?
Easy to put all the blame on that lad  isn't it? I take it he was responsible for all the goals we conceeded too..........Jeez.


Rooney has been the most disappointing player at this World Cup! In four games he's offered absolutely nothing and not showed his potential. That is terrible and when the next World Cup arrives, if Rooney is still in the England set-up people will question whether he can cut the mustard on the world stage.


Agreed. Rooney has been a joke in this tournament - and was no great shakes in the last World Cup either. He aint World Class pure and simple.

World Class Strikers mak space for themselves, take the ball on, not look for an easy cop out pass, and do not go missing/ hiding for the majority of the tournament.

Rooneys done little more than bitch and moan his way through this tournament and offered absolutely nothing of merit.
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: Pintolager on June 27, 2010, 06:13:13 pm
graingrover wrote:
Quote
Sky TV should put a Sky team of Englishmen in the Premiership like they are in the Tour de France! To narrow the blame onto Capello is understandable but has been done before in respect of every previous English manager and resolves nothing fundamentally.


Correct. I think alot of us are missing the point! We can blame the players/manager all we want, but as I said in a previous thread, maybe the problems are more deep rooted eg Psycholigical, methodical, preparation. Maybe it goes a bit deeper and we should look at how English football is run? I once heard an interview with Sir Bobby Charlton where he basically said that if a business/organisation is run correctly from the top then the rest will follow and that for me, is very true. I am sure that Bob G can carry this discussion further and explain reasons why the whole organisation is flawed, but we do need to change our ways of thinking if we are to move forward.
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: hoolahoop on June 27, 2010, 06:54:55 pm
Thinwhiteduke wrote:
Quote
Rigoglioso wrote:
Quote
hoolahoop wrote:
Quote
washyrover wrote:
Quote
Please leave ,P.S. take rooney with you.


Of course it was all Rooney's fault........ ffs don't talk bollox! Where
were the balls to him, who was with him when he was looking to play the ball ?
Easy to put all the blame on that lad  isn't it? I take it he was responsible for all the goals we conceeded too..........Jeez.


Rooney has been the most disappointing player at this World Cup! In four games he's offered absolutely nothing and not showed his potential. That is terrible and when the next World Cup arrives, if Rooney is still in the England set-up people will question whether he can cut the mustard on the world stage.


Agreed. Rooney has been a joke in this tournament - and was no great shakes in the last World Cup either. He aint World Class pure and simple.

World Class Strikers mak space for themselves, take the ball on, not look for an easy cop out pass, and do not go missing/ hiding for the majority of the tournament.

Rooneys done little more than bitch and moan his way through this tournament and offered absolutely nothing of merit.


All the rest of the squad have been heroes I presume then TWD, fook me why are you singling him out in a bloody TEAM game ? A team that incidentally didn't gel from the start , that created few opportunitiesm for each other.
Easy scapegoat for you , I take it................. :blink:
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: NathanDRFC on June 27, 2010, 06:58:38 pm
THis is from a grassroots forum, and for me highlights the issues:

Quote
But let's face it - it's not about Sepp Blatter and whether the ball crossed the line and goal line technology could have solved it - it's not about the manager and whether his reputaion is a myth or not or whether it's the players that don't buy into the Team England ethos or whether they don't like the regime / manager etc.

You reap what you sow - the result we harvested today was as a result of the seeds we sowed 20 years ago. It's ENTIRELY to do with the way we develop young kids and whether we teach them the game properly.

We need to learn and study how the likes of Germany, Argentina, Brazil develop players. What do THEY do to develop their players that we should work from that get them to world and Euro cup finals, semis etc on a regular basis? We need to learn how to impart that to our young players and hopefully reap a World or Euro win in 20 years time.

Our players are NOT world class - the evidence is apparent from anyone who has follwed our national team for the last 20 years. One world cup final 44 years ago, one Semi 20 years ago and a Euro semi 14 years ago are not testament that we are in fact doing ANYTHING right. Time to re-evaluate and time for Sir Trevor to DICTATE, not try to influence, what is done at at grassroots level.
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: coventryrover on June 27, 2010, 07:04:48 pm
How about blaming the overhyped, overpaid, underperforming players?

Football has to be one of the easiest games to play but this generation of so called quality players (lampard, cole, gerrard, terry, james) have failed uner erikson, mclaren and now capello.  The managers pick the 'best' the prem has produced.  Its time for them to stop believing their own hype and perform for the national side.
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: SkellowRover on June 27, 2010, 07:07:51 pm
This just shows how overrated our so called \"superstars\" are, it's the foreigners in English football that make our teams successful in the Champions League. As for Rooney, how can anybody call him world class? On the same stage as the best players in the world over 4 games he has shown the world he isn't even good enough to lace a player like Messi's boots.
No passion, no pride, no fight. And Don't use the goal that wasn't given as an excuse, we were lucky not to be 4-0 down before we scored our first. We deserved all we got and the result is a fair one.
Roll on August, at least i'll see some quality football played with passion by the Rovers instead of that shit given out by over paid useless t**ts that represent my country.
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: DonnyNoel on June 27, 2010, 07:09:27 pm
NathanDRFC wrote:
Quote
THis is from a grassroots forum, and for me highlights the issues:

Quote
But let's face it - it's not about Sepp Blatter and whether the ball crossed the line and goal line technology could have solved it - it's not about the manager and whether his reputaion is a myth or not or whether it's the players that don't buy into the Team England ethos or whether they don't like the regime / manager etc.

You reap what you sow - the result we harvested today was as a result of the seeds we sowed 20 years ago. It's ENTIRELY to do with the way we develop young kids and whether we teach them the game properly.

We need to learn and study how the likes of Germany, Argentina, Brazil develop players. What do THEY do to develop their players that we should work from that get them to world and Euro cup finals, semis etc on a regular basis? We need to learn how to impart that to our young players and hopefully reap a World or Euro win in 20 years time.

Our players are NOT world class - the evidence is apparent from anyone who has follwed our national team for the last 20 years. One world cup final 44 years ago, one Semi 20 years ago and a Euro semi 14 years ago are not testament that we are in fact doing ANYTHING right. Time to re-evaluate and time for Sir Trevor to DICTATE, not try to influence, what is done at at grassroots level.


Thats bang on IMO. Too much emphasis on winning at an early age and not on performance/development. Winning at U10/U11/U12 level teaches you nothing about becoming a footballer as its usually achieved by doing things you cant rely on by the time you're 14 (pacey strikers/one wonderkid beating 5 men).

I played for a team that used to win cups and finish top 3 every year between 10 and 13. I was a full back and all I had to do was run as fast as the winger to block his cross and then lump it long to our lightning quick strikers who averaged nearly 3 goals a game each. By 14 we were a mid table side. By 15 and 16 we were whipping boys against teams whom we used to hammer the years before (same players involved).

Short term I'd say get a Premiership manager (preferably English but I wouldnt grumble at someone like Moyes) and gamble on playing the high tempo but technically unsound premiership style in the Euros and maybe 2014.

Mid term, we seem to be f**ked. Other nations stars are making the jump from U21 to full international level but ours dont seem to be achieving much at that level.

Long term. Pass the ball from 8 years old to a player in space then find space to get it back.
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: jucyberry on June 27, 2010, 07:13:32 pm
The trouble with over inflating a player to god like status is that unless they can give 1000% every time they are on the pitch then they are bound to fall foul of the man in the street.

Lets be honest, these men are paid more money than we can ever dream of and all that is really asked of them is that they pull something extra out of the ermine lined bag in competitions like this.

I wonder tho where the team work was because there seemed to be precious little  at times. I can't help but think that  their ego's  are bigger than the desire to be in the team. So much of the game seemed to consist of no red shirts protecting the goal at all, no wonder it was all so easy for the Germans.

We did rather hand it to them on a plate didn't we?
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: hoolahoop on June 27, 2010, 07:15:28 pm
SkellowRover wrote:
Quote
This just shows how overrated our so called \"superstars\" are, it's the foreigners in English football that make our teams successful in the Champions League. As for Rooney, how can anybody call him world class? On the same stage as the best players in the world over 4 games he has shown the world he isn't even good enough to lace a player like Messi's boots.
No passion, no pride, no fight. And Don't use the goal that wasn't given as an excuse, we were lucky not to be 4-0 down before we scored our first. We deserved all we got and the result is a fair one.
Roll on August, at least i'll see some quality football played with passion by the Rovers instead of that shit given out by over paid useless t**ts that represent my country.


This is beginning to sound like a 'we hate Guy' thread only substituted with the name of Rooney.
Could somebody tell me whty he is the only 'bad apple' in the pie, is it easy to scapegoat than throw the blame at quite a few who didn't deserve to wear the shirt during the World Cup ? I take it that Green, Lampard, Terry et al were superb then ?
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: washyrover on June 27, 2010, 07:22:57 pm
Its no hate of rooney or any other players but hoopahoop can you tell me if in the 4 games he showed any passion apart from when he had a go at the fans you had worked hard for their money to go there in the first place and were let down.
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: SkellowRover on June 27, 2010, 07:27:05 pm
hoolahoop wrote:
Quote
SkellowRover wrote:
Quote
This just shows how overrated our so called \"superstars\" are, it's the foreigners in English football that make our teams successful in the Champions League. As for Rooney, how can anybody call him world class? On the same stage as the best players in the world over 4 games he has shown the world he isn't even good enough to lace a player like Messi's boots.
No passion, no pride, no fight. And Don't use the goal that wasn't given as an excuse, we were lucky not to be 4-0 down before we scored our first. We deserved all we got and the result is a fair one.
Roll on August, at least i'll see some quality football played with passion by the Rovers instead of that shit given out by over paid useless t**ts that represent my country.


This is beginning to sound like a 'we hate Guy' thread only substituted with the name of Rooney.
Could somebody tell me whty he is the only 'bad apple' in the pie, is it easy to scapegoat than throw the blame at quite a few who didn't deserve to wear the shirt during the World Cup ? I take it that Green, Lampard, Terry et al were superb then ?


I'm having a go at them all Hoola, we have defenders that can't defend, midfielders that can't pass and our talisman up front is rooney who is supposedly one of the best players in the world....... based on how he plays in the premier league for man utd.
Our problem is we always hype England up and call certain players in the team world class when they aren't. We haven't had a team that can compete at this level for 20 years since italia 90 and thats a fact and the only player who has worn an england shirt in the last decade that can call himself world class as he's done the business everywhere he has played at every level is Beckham.
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: Snods Shinpad 2 on June 27, 2010, 07:27:48 pm
NathanDRFC wrote:
Quote
THis is from a grassroots forum, and for me highlights the issues:


Agreed. Learning to control the ball properly and lay off a decent pass to feet (not to waist height) whilst learning to move into a position off the ball to give the ball holder options are something England cannot do and haven't since I've been watching them (Venables came the closest).

Watch any other team play and their first touch is perfect. They can kill the ball immediately and look up immediately for options. England players require two touches to control the ball (even our much heralded superstars like Gerrard, Rooney, Lampard)  and as a result vital time is lost and opportunities disappear. Simple short passes are continually delivered not to feet, but to waist or shoulder height.

They can get away with this in the Premier league when surrounded by technically gifted foreigners, but are found out at international level.

All this talk of lacking passion and desire is pointless if you can't do the fundamentals correctly.

Our players are technically deficient. Simple as that.
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: Wellred on June 27, 2010, 07:31:42 pm
To an extent I agree but don't include Green. The lad made one mistake and he has been crucified for it.
Johnson has looked shakey most of the time.
Terry has been woeful every game.
Lampard has never ever played well for England.
Ronney?? did he play?
Heskey? Its not his fault he is crap.
Capello? Has to be the most stubborn manager for a long time. WHY did he never pick our regular goalscorer in an England shirt. 5 goals in his last 8 games but not a sniff.
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: Al4475 on June 27, 2010, 08:23:12 pm
To be honest - I'm quite glad I chose the golf course!  :laugh:

I know it's a different kettle of fish - but this grassroots level is bang on for me! I (as many other posters no doubt) work with kids teams at school, and my players do not rely on the one superstar! I see so often with other schools the talented dribbler/greedy git who everyone simply passes the ball to and sits back and watches him/her (girls too) - not for me! We train constantly with a ball apiece - then move away to small game situations in 10x10 grids, and eventually move onto pitch and game time - where I insist on 3 touches, we work a lot on releasing the ball and moving into space and we often play teams off the park because all my teams are comfortable with the ball - and don't get berated if they try that good pass that doesn't quite come off! It takes time but even in a Junior School after four years of working like this, by the time kids reach Year 6 they are often of a different level ability, spatial awareness-wise and picking the right option! We don't always win obviously, but we play the game well and are graceful losers as well as winners and always earn plaudits - the overall record is pretty good! Lots of championships and trophies and enjoyment of playing the right way! Great feeling - Bring this to England and like someone said earlier in the thread, reap the rewards in the future.
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: I-was-there1976 on June 27, 2010, 09:19:13 pm
i saw a team of 7 year old Spanish kids play last year. Comparing them to a team of 7 year old English kids would be like comparing chalk and cheese.

We are light years behind
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: DonnyNoel on June 27, 2010, 09:26:59 pm
I-was-there1976 wrote:
Quote
i saw a team of 7 year old Spanish kids play last year. Comparing them to a team of 7 year old English kids would be like comparing chalk and cheese.

We are light years behind


I read an article (can't find the link anymore) where a German journalist reckoned us beating them 5-1 was the best thing that happened to them as they totally revised their youth set up after that. Hopefully our new set up at Burton has a similar effect.
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: MartinB on June 27, 2010, 09:27:07 pm
Must agree the FA have improved the \"Grassroots\" level of football. Non competitive games at U7 & U8 levels then when the U9's (to the best of my knowledge) then it starts....hoofball, parental pressure and all the other stuff which stops progress.  The FA are making progress and Trevor Brooking has been a key part of that.
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: MrFrost on June 27, 2010, 09:34:59 pm
Having watched the game today in town, I cannot believe the support everyone gives \"captain marvel\" Steven Gerrard. IMO he has never performed at international level and is probably the best of a bad bunch at Liverpool.

Captain my arse.
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: Son of thor on June 27, 2010, 09:44:55 pm
How many english men, run out on a saturday afternoon.This could be the problem. :dry:
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: billdoor on June 27, 2010, 10:21:32 pm
I am a great believer in futsal, for all kids. The ball is easy to control and pass. The game is quick and easy to play in any gym. The Spanish,Portugese and Brazilian kids all play it, as well as Doncaster Rovers (deaf school) have won the national league and qualified for europe. How many times have Doncaster rovers qualified for europe?
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: vaya on June 27, 2010, 10:26:53 pm
Son of thor wrote:
Quote
How many english men, run out on a saturday afternoon.This could be the problem. :dry:


Is is the problem, or the manifestation of it?

Is it that the top league has that many overseas players in it because of the paucity of home-grown 'talent'?
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: DadsleyRover on June 27, 2010, 10:29:12 pm
Capello has the ingrediants for a certain style of play and he chose to stick to 442. His substitutions were like for like. He could not change the system.

He should be sacked and if he goes to an industrial tribunal there will be thousands who could be called to give evidence as to the reason he failed.

Another way could be to ask him to do a tour of the troops in Afgaistan. I bet he wouldn't come back from that.

I agree totally with all the comments on coaching the kids they should be allowed to learn the game.

We should get the suits out of the FA and get some football people in there and learn from the nations that are doing well.
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: Barmby Rover on June 27, 2010, 10:33:01 pm
I went to see an international tournament of futsal a couple of years ago at the institute of sport in Sheffield. It is a great game, I would love to see a local tournament between the S.Yorks. sides, and I am pretty sure Rovers would win, it is all about skill and not hoofing. That is where the future lies for our youngsters. Pity they will never play for the top \"teams\" in England though, the places there are reserved for foreign players who have already made it, and not for our home grown youngsters.
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: Al4475 on June 27, 2010, 10:40:16 pm
The Burton thing is interesting, I worked out at a school in Staffordshire when I left college at a place called Barton-Under-Needwood perhaps 3 miles up the road from Burton on Trent and about 10 miles max, from the Burton development site, the whole area around there was ready for this development and it seemed to stand still for years as a simple piece of green ground that was disused - I don't know really how well things have moved on since then - in theory the idea was great, an Ajax style grass roots academy or a Clairefontayne (spelling/name) where the cream of the British kids could go and be taught and coached properly.

But maybe that's the crux of the problem - this development has been in place on paper or whatever for around 10 years, and I ain't sure how it's progressing! No decisiveness - if as a previous poster said that night in Germany changed their mentality about kids and grass roots -why the hell hasn't it happened here?
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: DonnyNoel on June 28, 2010, 07:24:50 am
Al4475 wrote:
Quote
The Burton thing is interesting, I worked out at a school in Staffordshire when I left college at a place called Barton-Under-Needwood perhaps 3 miles up the road from Burton on Trent and about 10 miles max, from the Burton development site, the whole area around there was ready for this development and it seemed to stand still for years as a simple piece of green ground that was disused - I don't know really how well things have moved on since then - in theory the idea was great, an Ajax style grass roots academy or a Clairefontayne (spelling/name) where the cream of the British kids could go and be taught and coached properly.

But maybe that's the crux of the problem - this development has been in place on paper or whatever for around 10 years, and I ain't sure how it's progressing! No decisiveness - if as a previous poster said that night in Germany changed their mentality about kids and grass roots -why the hell hasn't it happened here?


Hopefully this is the tipping point. This was the \"Golden Generation\"'s last chance of winning anything. I'd start looking at the Euros to blood players like Hart/Young/Huddlestone/Agbonglahor to be ready for 2014. Whilst this goes on hopefully the new facility at Burton starts to show its worth.
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on June 28, 2010, 08:38:01 am
Rigoglioso wrote:
Quote
I started it about two and a half years ago, the second I found out he got the job.

My main concerns were that he didn't have the man management skills to work with a group of players when the World Cup came around and motivate them in the six weeks or so that they would be in South Africa. I predicted that their would be fall-outs and spats in the England camp, and by and large I think I've been proved right.

I also said time and time again during the qualifiers and successful friendlies that England won, that we'd proved nothing and we wouldn't win the World Cup - or reach the semi-finals that were the target!

Okay, my head's getting a bit big now, but you get the point. Think I've been proved right. The only thing that surprises me is just how shambolic the England team have been in their four games in the tournament. I'd say for at least 80%-85% of actual game time, we've been easily the second best team in our games. Pathetic.


That's an interesting rewrite of history. From what I remember, the main reason you kept saying Capello was a crap manager was because he refused to pick Michael Owen. :/
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: PACMAN on June 28, 2010, 09:50:56 am
I'll stick up for Rooney, seeing as nobody else has. He is a world class player, when surrounded by world class players. Sadly, that hasn't proved to be the case at this world cup. How many times yesterday did we see him trying to win a header from a long ball pumped up at him? Yet when he did get the ball at his feet he looked more than dangerous!!

For me it's time for a clear out. Goodbye Messrs Gerrard, Lampard, Terry, James et al, throw in the Adam Johnson's, Theo Walcott's, Joe Hart's. Young, hungry players who have something to prove rather than vastly overpaid, over-rated has beens how have had their chances!!

As for Capello, keep him, he's stubborn enough to carry through a reconstruction job and not be bothered by the press calling for his head every time we lose!!

English football is rotten to the core IMHO. The FA is so prehistoric it's untrue, jobs for the boys, old school tie network etc, etc. They can't see the blindingly obvious, the England national team will never again win the world cup in my lifetime. Why? We have far too many foreigners at the top level of our game, young talent cannot progress as it once did when clubs go out and splash millions on players instead of developing our own.
Nathan's correct, the grassroots are neglected because clubs need an instant solution rather than growing talent. Most of the best young English players are now in the Championship because they can't break into Premiership sides which would dramatically aid their development. Looking further down, parents place so much pressure on kids in this country at such an early age, is there any wonder so many burn out or simply walk away from the game?
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: River Don on June 28, 2010, 10:09:46 am
I agree with a lot of the comments here. To me the England players are over rated and they do look better in their club sides because they are surrounded by foreign quality. If this English side were playing in the Premier League, they'd be battling it out with the likes of Villa and Everton at best.

I've been saying for many years,t we don't teach the game properly in this country and I would like to see root and branch reform of the FA and the likes of Brooking given proper responsibility for youth football. I'd like to see people like Wenger and Roy Hodgson involved too.

As for Capello, I wouldn't sack him. There's no point in always blaming the manager, we keep sacking them and we get nowhere. The next manager is ALWAYS just as unlikely to deliver. The players simply weren't good enough, I don't believe anyone would have got much more from them.

Far too much emphasis is placed on formations and tactics when the basic problem England face is players who can't control the ball properly. We still keep giving the ball away.

Until we start getting the very basics right, we don't stand a chance.
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: graingrover on June 28, 2010, 10:26:26 am
I  obviously do not know Capello as well as some ( never having met him or played for one of his teams  :( ).His lack of command fof  the language may be a contributory factor in this failure since his previous successes were in Italy and Spain (and he speaks fluent Spanish.)However on the pitch we lacked a General for sure. Not one of our players led by example ...were they scared of Capello? Did you see the way he got stuck in to Stuart Pearce! :woohoo:
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: CusworthRovers on June 28, 2010, 10:44:08 am
Good thread this.

Futsal- My lad has played that. Very good and all about a few factors that matter IMO: control of ball, space awareness of self and team-mates, pass and move. This is something we should be encouraging at an early age, be it Futsal or normal Footy. Instead, it's the powerhouse 10yr old who will barge through 6 skinny kids and score 40 goals in a game with little awareness of his team-mates and with little skill and control......or it's the lightening quick speedster who will push it forward and run like chuff and then try and shoot everytime. Yes he will bag 26 out of 68 attempts, but again with little awareness of team-mates, control and technical ability. Unfortunately it's these kids that will come through at a young age, as they are winners there and then at that age only. They are picked up even at non competitive small sided footy, and each pro club will have 15 of these types with a view to making them winners. The real footy boys with the correct skills and abilities can be often left behind, and do not get the required coaching.

Then again, the coaching at pro clubs at a young age is very much focused on results for that age group, inclusive of DRFC. Is there any wonder they will only pick up the strapping 10yr old  who can dictate a game through physique and speed only.

The trouble is when they get in their teens, the physique and speed element is less apparent, as the other have caught them up, then they have little to offer as footballers, with 5-8 years of investment wasted
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: graingrover on June 28, 2010, 10:53:52 am
i had two lads  I recommended to Rovers ,one of whom played futsal for the French National team ... but they never got any answer from the club to the CV's I sent (in DP's era)...  .Did DP consider futsal was no platform from which to develop 'real' footballers . Unfortunately ,as often has happened with Rovers, .. no answer.. so we will never know!
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: Lytham Rover on June 28, 2010, 10:58:04 am
where do you start!

in america they have commissioners who lead the sport and are relatively independant in the decisions that they make

in england we have committees!

we need root and branch reform of the pyramid starting at the top with the FA

then down to the premier league *spit*

then out to the clubs

with a coherent and achievable plan as to raising the standard of players coming through to provide the players of the future giving preference to english qualified players (look how cosmopolitan germany looked with the different ethnic backgrounds  one in the eye for the neo nazis!!!)

the most impressive/improved side at the WC this time has been japan  who barely had a professional league 20 years ago but have ran denmark ragged  what did they do right that we havent?

the key thing is that we mustn't think that everything is ok and it will sort itself out

cricket has had numerous inquests into their debacles but finally they are getting it right and are winning albeit in a smaller pool but they are on the right tracks

the status quo is NOT AN OPTION!
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: jucyberry on June 28, 2010, 11:10:20 am
The thing is, Capello will never win, if he is strong and fierce then oh dear the poor babies played badly cos of the big scary manager.

if he is soft, then it would be, oh look at the little lambs why doesn't he instill some backbone.

At the end of the day, those men just wern't good enough. No more no less.

I guess there are times when every manager makes decisions that seem totally wrong for the game that is being played out. wait till the season begins and SOD brings on all the subs in the last three mins..lol..

The only difference is, 99.9% of the other managers aren't making those strange decisions infront of the world.

And to be fair to Capello, the ratio of failed England managers who are actually English against those who aren't is way higher over the past forty years isn't it.
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: River Don on June 28, 2010, 11:16:57 am
You have a far greater chance of succeeding as a footballer in this country if you happen to be born earlier in the school year. Those kids with a September birthday have grown more and are likely to be better athletically than kids with a late birthday.

Our youth football is so concerned with results and physicality that the younger kids are simply barged out of the way. Smaller talented kids also tend to be ignored and lost to the game before they have chance to develop properly.

And we just don't do enough to concentrate on the basic skills throughout kids football anyway. The problem is deep seated and I have very little faith in the FAs current approach to improving things.

I'm all for initiatives such as footsal and small sided games. For instance I believe it's the Dutch don't allow young children to play in competitive leagues, they believe that kind of competition at a young age is actually detrimental.
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: Pintolager on June 28, 2010, 11:26:22 am
I would like to hear O'Driscoll's views on England's failure in the World Cup. With his philosophies on football and how he likes the game to be played, I think he would have some intersting opinions.
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: DonnyNoel on June 28, 2010, 11:38:22 am
Pintolager wrote:
Quote
I would like to hear O'Driscoll's views on England's failure in the World Cup. With his philosophies on football and how he likes the game to be played, I think he would have some intersting opinions.


Whilst I wouldn't want him to leave Rovers I think his input into youth coaching at a national level would be a huge asset for the country. His policy of questioning \"the norm because it's the norm\" and his stance on results vs performance should be introduced whilst kids are young. He said when he joined DRFC that he had to re-brief scouts on what to look for in players (irrelevant of whether a player gives the ball away, was it right pass to be making? If it was, he can coach how to complete the pass) and I think we need to take a similar stance on what makes a good player at 10/11/12 years old.
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: Foozer on June 28, 2010, 12:46:06 pm
You wanna have a better national team? Easy: Reduce the number of foreigners in the prem. F.ex: Never more than 4 foreigners on the field for a team during a game.
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: keyser_soze on June 28, 2010, 01:18:02 pm
Without being xenophobic we need an immediate cap on the number of foreigners at the highest level of English football (if its even legal?). How about a max of 5 in your starting XI and subs? How many of the star players of the teams progressing in this world cup play their football in England, benefiting from our coaching and our TV money, and playing in our European place. We're building International players for other countries.

All our potential England stars are rotting in the reserves of Premier League clubs, and playing at lower levels. 15 years ago, the stars in the Championship would have been playing at the top-level had a chance to prove their potential as England players.  Players like Sharp, Stock and Wellens would be top division squad players.

A Leeds supporter on a different forum asked for Jermaine Beckford to be chosen for this squad, there was no way he could have based on a season in League One, but without Drogba, Malouda, Tevez, Anelka, Essien, Torres etc etc etc a player like Beckford would have already had that chance to prove whether or not he was worthy at a higher level.

England have maybe 5 world-class players (2 of which are incompatible, and the system shouldn't be changed to accommodate them), but just don't have the strength in depth. How many English goalies are there playing regularly in the Prem? 4? 5? How many have played in Europe? Realistically, that's your pot you've got to chose from.

And goal-line technology as discussed in another thread. No video replays, just a simple alarm/light/bell/fanfare/fireworks, whatever.

And, if you're chasing a game, don't take off Defoe, and if you're gonna bring another striker on, put Crouch on instead of Heskey.


Or how about chosing the England team from England-based players regardless of nationality? That appears to be what the Germans have done with their Turkish/Polish/Ghanaian army.
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: Lytham Rover on June 28, 2010, 01:34:34 pm
keyser_soze wrote:
Quote

Or how about chosing the England team from England-based players regardless of nationality? That appears to be what the Germans have done with their Turkish/Polish/Ghanaian army.


the thing is the germans recognised that these players were there and encouraged them to declare for germany rather than one of their other parents birth place

the other fact is that 5 players from the under 21's winning side (against england) were included in this squad and a couple of them made it into the team compare and contrast 1 for england!

ps f**k the premier league!
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: River Don on June 28, 2010, 01:54:50 pm
Brian Clough knew the biggest problem with English football.

John Ryan knows it.

It isn't the manager, it isn't foreigners in our game.

It is the Football Association itself. The lead weight that NEVER changes.
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: snods big brother on June 28, 2010, 02:10:42 pm
One of the problems with football is the fans - we do not have the ability to manage our expectations correctly. Every competition we expect to win and have done since 1966 and quite probably long before that, after all we invented the game! We continually listen and believe the sound bites of papers, managers and players - where in reality qualifications is an achievement as is getting out of the group stages. Until we learn to manage expectation we will continue to have this woe is me atitude after every so called failure.
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: RobTheRover on June 28, 2010, 02:26:32 pm
River Don wrote:
Quote
You have a far greater chance of succeeding as a footballer in this country if you happen to be born earlier in the school year. Those kids with a September birthday have grown more and are likely to be better athletically than kids with a late birthday.

Our youth football is so concerned with results and physicality that the younger kids are simply barged out of the way. Smaller talented kids also tend to be ignored and lost to the game before they have chance to develop properly.

And we just don't do enough to concentrate on the basic skills throughout kids football anyway. The problem is deep seated and I have very little faith in the FAs current approach to improving things.

I'm all for initiatives such as footsal and small sided games. For instance I believe it's the Dutch don't allow young children to play in competitive leagues, they believe that kind of competition at a young age is actually detrimental.


I agree totally with this, RD.

I'm a coach of an U7s side, the youngest that kids can play for a team.  There is no competitive league (in fact, there are only friendlies up to u11s), although the DDJSFL organise a league season of matches, and managers of clubs want to win at all costs.  The idea that this is an opportunity to coach kids PROPER developmental skills at the time when they are most receptive to them is lost.  I see coaches who see the team not winning as a bad reflection on them.  I also see parents who believe their little Johnny is going to be the next Rooney or Messi, and place ridiculous levels of EXPECTATION on them rather than just supporting their child's FOOTBALL EDUCATION.

I've just been on the FA's Level 1 coaching course, and the focus is now all about first touch, finding the pass, supporting play by having awareness of space, etc.  Barely any of the drills are about shooting or scoring goals.  Maybe the sands are finally starting to shift at the top, but it will be a long time before everyone is on the same page.
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: River Don on June 28, 2010, 02:54:01 pm
RobTheRover wrote:
Quote
River Don wrote:
Quote
You have a far greater chance of succeeding as a footballer in this country if you happen to be born earlier in the school year. Those kids with a September birthday have grown more and are likely to be better athletically than kids with a late birthday.

Our youth football is so concerned with results and physicality that the younger kids are simply barged out of the way. Smaller talented kids also tend to be ignored and lost to the game before they have chance to develop properly.

And we just don't do enough to concentrate on the basic skills throughout kids football anyway. The problem is deep seated and I have very little faith in the FAs current approach to improving things.

I'm all for initiatives such as footsal and small sided games. For instance I believe it's the Dutch don't allow young children to play in competitive leagues, they believe that kind of competition at a young age is actually detrimental.


I agree totally with this, RD.

I'm a coach of an U7s side, the youngest that kids can play for a team.  There is no competitive league (in fact, there are only friendlies up to u11s), although the DDJSFL organise a league season of matches, and managers of clubs want to win at all costs.  The idea that this is an opportunity to coach kids PROPER developmental skills at the time when they are most receptive to them is lost.  I see coaches who see the team not winning as a bad reflection on them.  I also see parents who believe their little Johnny is going to be the next Rooney or Messi, and place ridiculous levels of EXPECTATION on them rather than just supporting their child's FOOTBALL EDUCATION.

I've just been on the FA's Level 1 coaching course, and the focus is now all about first touch, finding the pass, supporting play by having awareness of space, etc.  Barely any of the drills are about shooting or scoring goals.  Maybe the sands are finally starting to shift at the top, but it will be a long time before everyone is on the same page.


Interesting reading:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/article2957535.ece

Quote
The land is flat but the people are rounded in the Netherlands. Clubs do not throw kids on the scrapheap if they do not make the grade. If Groningen decide a youth player is not good enough, the club are duty-bound by their agreement with the KNVB to find him an amateur one. The whole ethos is on caring for the children. “We have a way of educating players,” Jeltema said. “It’s not all about winning.”


Quote
They also have an age group and technical co-ordinator and more qualified coaches, with parents having little influence.


Quote
It is not rocket science, but the idea that winning is not everything is anathema to the English.
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: billdoor on June 29, 2010, 08:21:41 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFnJB__4AvU&feature=player_embedded#!

Have a look at this futsal site.

t should be at least part of the future of british football.
Title: Re:Capello
Post by: BLIR on June 30, 2010, 01:47:48 am
It's all very well trying to deflect the blame from the manager but there are a number of questions that need to be answered:

[ol]Who selected the squad, including clearly unfit players?
Who picked the team for each match?
Who played players out of position, sticking rigidly to formations that the players clearly weren't comfortable with?
Who took Defoe off and replaced him with Heskey when we were desperately in of goals - the equivalent of fancying a w**k and turning the porn off?[/ol]

The buck stops with the manager for me, and on the money he has been paid to do the job he simply hasn't been up to scratch