Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: rtid88 on July 13, 2010, 09:33:02 am
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Well i'm out of a job within the next 2-3 years because of those toffy, rich bas**rds, they have not got a clue how to run this country!!
Give the already rich GP's millions of pounds to spend, take them away from the patients that the coalition wants them to spend more time with and make half of the country unemployed and give all of the finance and management responibilities to private companies like price waterhouse making the tories best mates even richer!!
How can this kind of thing happen!! This country is a f@cking joke!!!
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Well I can't get a job thanks to the previous Labour government so it's tough for us all. Try blaming those who mean we have massive debts in this country.
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rtid88 wrote:
Well i'm out of a job within the next 2-3 years because of those toffy, rich bas**rds, they have not got a clue how to run this country!!
Give the already rich GP's millions of pounds to spend, take them away from the patients that the coalition wants them to spend more time with and make half of the country unemployed and give all of the finance and management responibilities to private companies like price waterhouse making the tories best mates even richer!!
How can this kind of thing happen!! This country is a f@cking joke!!!
What have they specificly done to put you out of a job?
At least you have 2-3 years to sort something, which is more time than what alot of people who were made unemployed during the last government were given.
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No one has specifically come to my desk and said you are out of a job, but the government in the White Paper has said that all 152 PCTs (of which I work for one) will be closed by April 2013 and that management costs need to be cut by 46%! I do not envisage that there will be many jobs to go around in this area and unemployment will rise significantly!
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rtid88 wrote:
No one has specifically come to my desk and said you are out of a job, but the government in the White Paper has said that all 152 PCTs (of which I work for one) will be closed by April 2013 and that management costs need to be cut by 46%! I do not envisage that there will be many jobs to go around in this area and unemployment will rise significantly!
And how long have the ConDems been in power? I'm afraid it's only going to get worse for the majority.
I'm lucky coz I work for a Private company, which the Tories like much more the Public Financed jobs.
:dry:
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Interestingly enough, so far, the people cming out to defend the tories are the ones who are too young to remember them being in power the last time. It has faded into almost a fairy tale for them. Those old enough to remember tho, aren't waving the flags in the same manner. I guess innocence has to learn from harsh experience tho.
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I was a kid during the last Tory Government. I had a decent upbringing despite coming from a one parent family. I didn't go without.
I personally have suffered, as have my family under the Labour government, so why shouldn't I defend the Tories?
Now I guess once again I will be lambasted for being in the minority on this forum who voted Tory. Who cares. I have my beliefs, as do you. Why are mine any less credible?
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You are in the same boat as my other half. She is fully expecting her \"at risk\" letter to land on the door mat in the next week or so. She's been with the NHS 21 years and was dreading the Tories getting in as they raised months ago about big changes.
The whole countries going to collapse big time!
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MrFrost wrote:
I was a kid during the last Tory Government. I had a decent upbringing despite coming from a one parent family. I didn't go without.
I personally have suffered, as have my family under the Labour government, so why shouldn't I defend the Tories?
Now I guess once again I will be lambasted for being in the minority on this forum who voted Tory. Who cares. I have my beliefs, as do you. Why are mine any less credible?
Frosty.
I started School in '79, under a Tory regime, a working class kid who's mum picked potatoes for a living and Dad shovelled Sand at a Builders Merchants. I have no issue with them at all.
My parents paid extortianate interest rates under the same regime, they benefited from the 'Right To Buy Scheme' and always have been, and always will be, Conservative Voters. My mum, under said regime, set up her own dry cleaners, my dad worked to become a Chief Officer in Humberside Fire Service.
Our lass's Dad a former miner in a mining community, voted Conservative this time out - you telling me he wasnt aware of the Tories in the 80's?? But whilst the Mining industry was being brought to its knees, he did the sensible thing, pre empted it and gained employment elsewhere.
Our lass, who works for Doncaster Council, has 4 interviews with Private Companies this week, cos she can see that the Council is over bloated and inefficient.At the end of the day, it wont hurt for our Public services to have to be run more like Private Companies - with defined targets, economically and with Value for Money.
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Thinwhiteduke wrote:
At the end of the day, it wont hurt for our Public services to have to be run more like Private Companies - with defined targets, economically and with Value for Money.
Ah, Privatisation. You're defo a Tory voter aren't you TWD?
It's crackers that yourself and other Tories think they can run councils like a business - do you forget that Council's aren't there to make money? They are there to provide a service and run towns and cities. If a town needs more bin-men or more childrens services or whatever, it shouldn't come down to whether it will make the council a loss or not!
Councils have always had targets, it's just with the Tories they have to meet them on less public money so the difference can cover the reduced taxes for the less needy and Private Businesses.
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Just noticed this diamond aswell:
Thinwhiteduke wrote:
Our lass's Dad a former miner in a mining community, voted Conservative this time out - you telling me he wasnt aware of the Tories in the 80's?? But whilst the Mining industry was being brought to its knees, he did the sensible thing, pre empted it and gained employment elsewhere.
So if a government brings down an entire British industry and causes mass unemployment, it's the workers' own fault for not getting another job before it happens?
i.e. If a government causes unemployment, so what - it's not their fault!
:S
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bobjimwilly wrote:
Just noticed this diamond aswell:
Thinwhiteduke wrote:
Our lass's Dad a former miner in a mining community, voted Conservative this time out - you telling me he wasnt aware of the Tories in the 80's?? But whilst the Mining industry was being brought to its knees, he did the sensible thing, pre empted it and gained employment elsewhere.
So if a government brings down an entire British industry and causes mass unemployment, it's the workers' own fault for not getting another job before it happens?
i.e. If a government causes unemployment, so what - it's not their fault!
:S
The whole miners thing's been done to death, it happened before I was even born and I'm 22 now, time to cosign it to the past really isn't it? I mean the PM at the time's not far from dead.
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One thing that gets mentioned quite frequently by economists but tends to be ignored by the Government is they reckon the deficit will be halved by 2014/15 by doing ............absolutly nothing, carrying on basically as we are without all these massive cuts
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big fat yorkshire pudding wrote:
The whole miners thing's been done to death, it happened before I was even born and I'm 22 now, time to cosign it to the past really isn't it? I mean the PM at the time's not far from dead.
But surely the one thing history should teach is how to avoid past mistakes?
Tbh I really was just pointing out a bit of an elephant in MrFrosts' rant, the fact he is suggesting the resulting mass unemployment due to a governments mistake can be blamed on the workers. I'm not suggesting anything on such scale should happen again under the coalition, but if it did it would definately be their fault, not ours.
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big fat yorkshire pudding wrote:
Well I can't get a job thanks to the previous Labour government so it's tough for us all. Try blaming those who mean we have massive debts in this country.
every country on earth owes loads of money to other countries, we have only just finished paying off world war 2 with the americans, so to say the previous government caused all the debts and issues in the country. It was easy for the tory party to claim it was all labours fault when the debt and economic crisis came from such a massive range of sources to blame the labour party is make things like this out to be simple matters when they aren't.
the smug tory bas**rds would rather make cuts to public services and have managed to use the GLOBAL economic crisis as an excuse to and unfortunatly a huge section of the population seems to have fallen for it hook line and sinker.
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MrFrost wrote:
I was a kid during the last Tory Government. I had a decent upbringing despite coming from a one parent family. I didn't go without.
I personally have suffered, as have my family under the Labour government, so why shouldn't I defend the Tories?
Now I guess once again I will be lambasted for being in the minority on this forum who voted Tory. Who cares. I have my beliefs, as do you. Why are mine any less credible?
So you won't remember the middle 80s, with the streets thronged with homeless people living cardboard boxes, then?
Never mind, I confidently predict you'll get a second chance when the repossessions start after the unemployment rate doubles within the next five years (if the government lasts that long).
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big fat yorkshire pudding wrote:
bobjimwilly wrote:
Just noticed this diamond aswell:
Thinwhiteduke wrote:
Our lass's Dad a former miner in a mining community, voted Conservative this time out - you telling me he wasnt aware of the Tories in the 80's?? But whilst the Mining industry was being brought to its knees, he did the sensible thing, pre empted it and gained employment elsewhere.
So if a government brings down an entire British industry and causes mass unemployment, it's the workers' own fault for not getting another job before it happens?
i.e. If a government causes unemployment, so what - it's not their fault!
:S
The whole miners thing's been done to death, it happened before I was even born and I'm 22 now, time to cosign it to the past really isn't it? I mean the PM at the time's not far from dead.
Good Bury her now
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When I turned eighteen, I voted tory, I shall say because I knew no better, I was young and not politically motivated. Over the years until the advent of Blair I continued to vote the same, mainly because our M.P as I have said on many occasions does a good job for this area. When Blair came along I was time for a change, there was far too much that I didn't like about the government..
Finally, this time I voted as an adult I didn't vote Tory because Henry Bellingham is good for my part of the country. I tried to think of the wider picture in the misguided belief that my vote would count.
Sadly tho, my team so to speak decided to crawl in bed with the devil.
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Glyn_Wigley wrote:
MrFrost wrote:
I was a kid during the last Tory Government. I had a decent upbringing despite coming from a one parent family. I didn't go without.
I personally have suffered, as have my family under the Labour government, so why shouldn't I defend the Tories?
Now I guess once again I will be lambasted for being in the minority on this forum who voted Tory. Who cares. I have my beliefs, as do you. Why are mine any less credible?
So you won't remember the middle 80s, with the streets thronged with homeless people living cardboard boxes, then?
Never mind, I confidently predict you'll get a second chance when the repossessions start after the unemployment rate doubles within the next five years (if the government lasts that long).
No, seeing as I was only a few years old at the time, my memory is a bit sketchy.
I'm not worried. Come what may, i'm confident things will work out better than if the Jock had remained in power.
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They undoubtedly will turn out better Mr Frost - for some. That is the entire raison d'etre of the Conservative Party. Our problem, collectively, is that, unfortunately, quite a lot of people have what's called a conscience. A social conscience. They don't like it when those who already have quite a lot get quite a lot more - at the expense of those who don't have so much and who will end up having significantly less. I do remember the cardboard boxes down Charing Cross Road. You couldn't walk a straight line for all the poor sods freezing their asses off. As I said last night, I agree, some of those poeople will have been wasters, tossers, scroungers. But I really cannot, and do not, believe that they all were.
I often ask myself 'What is the purpose of society?' I mean, why does it exist? What's it for? What's it do? If that purpose is not to ensure that every member of that society has at least the basics necessary to survive and to have a little dignity, then I'm afraid I'm for Anarchism. It's the only rational alternative.
I'll give you another thought: what party, do you think, would Jesus Christ have voted for? The man who gave his coat to a right old baddy remember? I've often giggled myself almost senseless watching the Tory party at prayer. It's a tautology. If you are a Tory believer, fine. That's the privilege of every single voter. But to also claim that that same person, that same party is also christian is simply bizarre. The two are mutually exclusive.
Cheers
BobG
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Anyone care to predict when the riots are going to start? The current Tory administration is getting away with far more already than that cow Maggies did and we're only a few weeks in!
Back to that cow,I, like many of my ex-colleagues whom she gave a year off without pay, have in advance booked the day off when she dies, to get pissed! Been waiting that long for it that I stopped drinking since, but am going to start again on that day, and fully expect celebrations in the street.
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Do you know the day she is going to die?
Another one jumping on the Tory bandwagon. It's all too easy to blame the current government for the cuts that HAVE to be made. Do you really think rioting will solve the issues? Did it work with Thatcher?
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MrFrost wrote:
Do you know the day she is going to die?
Another one jumping on the Tory bandwagon. It's all too easy to blame the current government for the cuts that HAVE to be made. Do you really think rioting will solve the issues? Did it work with Thatcher?
Not soon enough,
The only sadness of the Brighton Hotel bomb was that they missed her, Bitch.
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I remember being mad as hell that they missed her. I'm not going to get drunk the day she dies. I'm going to wait. And one day, when the fuss has died down, I'm going to make s special journey - to her grave. And I'm going to dance on the damn thing.
BobG
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nice one rovers wrote:
MrFrost wrote:
Do you know the day she is going to die?
Another one jumping on the Tory bandwagon. It's all too easy to blame the current government for the cuts that HAVE to be made. Do you really think rioting will solve the issues? Did it work with Thatcher?
Not soon enough,
The only sadness of the Brighton Hotel bomb was that they missed her, Bitch.
Hmmmmm. Well done.
Do you care to tell me what the current Government have \"got away with\".
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BobG wrote:
I remember being mad as hell that they missed her. I'm not going to get drunk the day she dies. I'm going to wait. And one day, when the fuss has died down, I'm going to make s special journey - to her grave. And I'm going to dance on the damn thing.
BobG
That is interesting. So I assume you wish death on her?
Are there any other wrong doers who might wish death on, and who's grave you would dance on?
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MrFrost wrote:
nice one rovers wrote:
MrFrost wrote:
Do you know the day she is going to die?
Another one jumping on the Tory bandwagon. It's all too easy to blame the current government for the cuts that HAVE to be made. Do you really think rioting will solve the issues? Did it work with Thatcher?
Not soon enough,
The only sadness of the Brighton Hotel bomb was that they missed her, Bitch.
Hmmmmm. Well done.
Do you care to tell me what the current Government have \"got away with\".
Not really, cant be arsed. You'll only fire back with some right-wing hate sh*t. You'll feel it soon enough.
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MrFrost wrote:
BobG wrote:
I remember being mad as hell that they missed her. I'm not going to get drunk the day she dies. I'm going to wait. And one day, when the fuss has died down, I'm going to make s special journey - to her grave. And I'm going to dance on the damn thing.
BobG
That is interesting. So I assume you wish death on her?
Are there any other wrong doers who might wish death on, and who's grave you would dance on?
you've really got it bad for her havent you, Do you honestly think she and her like would piss on you, the working class if they saw you on fire on their doorstep?
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nice one rovers wrote:
MrFrost wrote:
nice one rovers wrote:
MrFrost wrote:
Do you know the day she is going to die?
Another one jumping on the Tory bandwagon. It's all too easy to blame the current government for the cuts that HAVE to be made. Do you really think rioting will solve the issues? Did it work with Thatcher?
Not soon enough,
The only sadness of the Brighton Hotel bomb was that they missed her, Bitch.
Hmmmmm. Well done.
Do you care to tell me what the current Government have \"got away with\".
Not really, cant be arsed. You'll only fire back with some right-wing hate sh*t. You'll feel it soon enough.
Can't be arsed. More likely story is that you can't answer it, as they haven't \"got away\" with anything.
Feel what soon enough? Nah pal, i'll be fine. I've got faith in the government to do right by the country. I'm not stuck in the past like so many people here who carry very large chips on their shoulders.
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MrFrost wrote:
nice one rovers wrote:
MrFrost wrote:
nice one rovers wrote:
MrFrost wrote:
Do you know the day she is going to die?
Another one jumping on the Tory bandwagon. It's all too easy to blame the current government for the cuts that HAVE to be made. Do you really think rioting will solve the issues? Did it work with Thatcher?
Not soon enough,
The only sadness of the Brighton Hotel bomb was that they missed her, Bitch.
Hmmmmm. Well done.
Do you care to tell me what the current Government have \"got away with\".
Not really, cant be arsed. You'll only fire back with some right-wing hate sh*t. You'll feel it soon enough.
Can't be arsed. More likely story is that you can't answer it, as they haven't \"got away\" with anything.
Feel what soon enough? Nah pal, i'll be fine. I've got faith in the government to do right by the country. I'm not stuck in the past like so many people here who carry very large chips on their shoulders.
So your deep-seated racist views are forward thinking , are they? Cant think of anything more stuck in the past.
Where do you get large chips from anyway, I'm starving now.
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MrFrost wrote:
Do you really think rioting will solve the issues? Did it work with Thatcher?
Err...yep it did. It was the Poll Tax that did for Maggie. She utterly mis-read the mood of the nation on that one. When the Miners were fighting police in Orgreave, no-one in the Tory Party gave a shit. But when Middle England rioted in Trafalgar Square over the Poll Tax, the Tories cacked their pants and got shut of her sharpish.
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nice one rovers wrote:
MrFrost wrote:
nice one rovers wrote:
MrFrost wrote:
nice one rovers wrote:
MrFrost wrote:
Do you know the day she is going to die?
Another one jumping on the Tory bandwagon. It's all too easy to blame the current government for the cuts that HAVE to be made. Do you really think rioting will solve the issues? Did it work with Thatcher?
Not soon enough,
The only sadness of the Brighton Hotel bomb was that they missed her, Bitch.
Hmmmmm. Well done.
Do you care to tell me what the current Government have \"got away with\".
Not really, cant be arsed. You'll only fire back with some right-wing hate sh*t. You'll feel it soon enough.
Can't be arsed. More likely story is that you can't answer it, as they haven't \"got away\" with anything.
Feel what soon enough? Nah pal, i'll be fine. I've got faith in the government to do right by the country. I'm not stuck in the past like so many people here who carry very large chips on their shoulders.
So your deep-seated racist views are forward thinking , are they? Cant think of anything more stuck in the past.
Where do you get large chips from anyway, I'm starving now.
Please, please, pelase point out one racist view to me. Do you even know the meaning of the word?
Being against mass immigration doesn't make me a racist.
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MrFrost wrote:
the cuts that HAVE to be made.
You, being a clever bloke, will no doubt have read the comments by the IMF last week. Hardly a socialist organisation - they are the international finaciers that brought the 1970s Labour Govt to its knees, and that usually virulently argue for fiscal prudence.
Well, last week the IMF fired a huge warning shot across the Tories' bows. They said that cutting Government spending in the current economic climate carried \"significant downside risks\". Which, when the diplomatic gloss is stripped away, really means, \"Are you ABSOLUTELY SURE that you know what you are doing, because you are running the risk of turning a crisis into a disaster the like of which we haven't seen since your Grandad was first growing pubes.\"
These cuts simply do NOT have to be made as quickly and deeply as the Tories are telling us. They don't. This is a POLITICAL CHOICE, not an economic imperative. It is the biggest political and economic gamble that any political party has made in any of our lifetimes, and it is intellectually disgraceful to dress it up in There Is No Alternative clothing. If the IMF are suggesting that alternatives exist, you hardly need to be a Lonny Lefty to question Osbourne's policy.
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BillyStubbsTears wrote:
MrFrost wrote:
the cuts that HAVE to be made.
You, being a clever bloke, will no doubt have read the comments by the IMF last week. Hardly a socialist organisation - they are the international finaciers that brought the 1970s Labour Govt to its knees, and that usually virulently argue for fiscal prudence.
Well, last week the IMF fired a huge warning shot across the Tories' bows. They said that cutting Government spending in the current economic climate carried \"significant downside risks\". Which, when the diplomatic gloss is stripped away, really means, \"Are you ABSOLUTELY SURE that you know what you are doing, because you are running the risk of turning a crisis into a disaster the like of which we haven't seen since your Grandad was first growing pubes.\"
These cuts simply do NOT have to be made as quickly and deeply as the Tories are telling us. They don't. This is a POLITICAL CHOICE, not an economic imperative. It is the biggest political and economic gamble that any political party has made in any of our lifetimes, and it is intellectually disgraceful to dress it up in There Is No Alternative clothing. If the IMF are suggesting that alternatives exist, you hardly need to be a Lonny Lefty to question Osbourne's policy.
Well we will soon find out. Exciting times ahead............
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I find your trivialisation of the absolute financial devastation which is certain to hit many of our communities utterly distasteful.
You've picked your side, thats fine. You be a Tory, and be happy with your choice, but dont ever, ever, call the deep uncertainty many people working in sectors already targetted as \"quick wins\" will feel over how they will keep their homes above their heads and their families supported \"exciting times\", you sanctimonious prat.
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In the end RTR we haveto remember one thing, you can't educate spam.
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May I ask what job you have Mr Frost?? Do you have children and a wife to look after, a house to pay for? I do and this god for saken tory government is going to ruin the life of so many people and better theirs and their buddies lives.
The unemployment rate of this country is going to be higher then it has ever been in a few years, there will be people living on the streets all over the country!
The tories could not give two stuffs to us up north or to the majority of the population of this country! As long as the country is run in the way that they want it and their pockets are getting fuller that is all they are worried about!
To describe what is happening as 'exciting times' is a disgrace and I for one hope you never write on this forum again you f@cking tw@t!!
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rtid88 wrote:
May I ask what job you have Mr Frost?? Do you have children and a wife to look after, a house to pay for? I do and this god for saken tory government is going to ruin the life of so many people and better theirs and their buddies lives.
The unemployment rate of this country is going to be higher then it has ever been in a few years, there will be people living on the streets all over the country!
The tories could not give two stuffs to us up north or to the majority of the population of this country! As long as the country is run in the way that they want it and their pockets are getting fuller that is all they are worried about!
To describe what is happening as 'exciting times' is a disgrace and I for one hope you never write on this forum again you f@cking tw@t!!
It was a flippent comment designed to annoy those still living in the past. And it worked.
If you want to know, I run a business. I'm pleased what the Tories have done for small businesses in the budget and it should help mine grow in the future.
The public spending cuts are needed badly. Labour would have gone on signing away blank checks for this and that and the situation would have been much worse further down the line.
Do people ever stop to think of those who lost their jobs under labour and the cock ups they made? Or should we not blame labour for that?
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Who is living in the past?? I'm living in the present where the tories are cutting back on everything when it has already been clearly stated by the likes of BST (who I respect and I feel has a much better grasp of politics then yourself) that the IMF have said there is no need to make the drastic cutbacks that the tories are making.
It is almost as if they are playing a pathetic game of just changing every single thing that Labour put into place just for the sake of it and for their enjoyment to sit back and watch the poor get poorer and the rich richer. They are making the divide between the south and the north, the rich and the poorer greater and they are loving it!
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A wolf in a wooly pullover is still a wolf. This new breed of Tory still goes to bed masterbating over Thatcher and the 'glory days' of her government. To think that this lot will help the country is simplistic in the extreme. They are part of a culture that believes any thing north of London is a bug to be squashed. Round here, we have so many tory land owners, but get past Norfolk and people really start to suffer. Hard times are coming, and to itimate even in jest that it is exciting is crass to say the least. I hope for your sake that one day that doesn't turn round and bite you on the bum.
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What I find strange is that people are questioning the needs for cuts.
For years ethe majority in this country have spent beyound their means, from government to the man in the street, and now people are surprised things have gone tits up?
Under the labour government it was so easy for people to borrow money, credit cards, loans etc. People never stopped to think what would happen if they couldn't pay the money back. Labour did nothing but promote a false self confidence.
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So your blaming the Labour government for people taking out loans and using credit cards beyond their means!! Don't talk twaddle, that was every individual persons choice, I don't remember seeing Tony Blair or Gordon Brown on the tv advertising a home owner loan or credit cards!! The person to blame is Carol Vorderman!!
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rtid88 wrote:
May I ask what job you have Mr Frost?? Do you have children and a wife to look after, a house to pay for? I do and this god for saken tory government is going to ruin the life of so many people and better theirs and their buddies lives.
The unemployment rate of this country is going to be higher then it has ever been in a few years, there will be people living on the streets all over the country!
The tories could not give two stuffs to us up north or to the majority of the population of this country! As long as the country is run in the way that they want it and their pockets are getting fuller that is all they are worried about!
To describe what is happening as 'exciting times' is a disgrace and I for one hope you never write on this forum again you f@cking tw@t!!
Seconded, but he wont go away, its only three months ago that he resigned from posting on the forum,\"full stop\". I honestly dont think he realises that his views are met with resentment, and anger, but mostly intense pity and laughter. Poor selfish, deluded chap.
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rtid88 wrote:
So your blaming the Labour government for people taking out loans and using credit cards beyond their means!! Don't talk twaddle, that was every individual persons choice, I don't remember seeing Tony Blair or Gordon Brown on the tv advertising a home owner loan or credit cards!! The person to blame is Carol Vorderman!!
Denial.
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nice one rovers wrote:
rtid88 wrote:
May I ask what job you have Mr Frost?? Do you have children and a wife to look after, a house to pay for? I do and this god for saken tory government is going to ruin the life of so many people and better theirs and their buddies lives.
The unemployment rate of this country is going to be higher then it has ever been in a few years, there will be people living on the streets all over the country!
The tories could not give two stuffs to us up north or to the majority of the population of this country! As long as the country is run in the way that they want it and their pockets are getting fuller that is all they are worried about!
To describe what is happening as 'exciting times' is a disgrace and I for one hope you never write on this forum again you f@cking tw@t!!
Seconded, but he wont go away, its only three months ago that he resigned from posting on the forum,\"full stop\". I honestly dont think he realises that his views are met with resentment, and anger, but mostly intense pity and laughter. Poor selfish, deluded chap.
Can you speak for every person on this forum? Or just the usual suspects. Because I dont agree with the majority? Or accpet the country will fall flat on its knee's because it happened before?
Tell you what, instead of moping about worrying about losing your job, being turfed onto the streets. Do something proactive about it instead of waiting for it to happen.
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Look, you know when you're having a chat, talk, discussion, debate, and in over 1500 posts nobody has yet agreed with a single thing you've said, then it's probably time to stand back a bit and re-think your life philosophies.
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MrFrost wrote:
Tell you what, instead of moping about worrying about losing your job, being turfed onto the streets. Do something proactive about it instead of waiting for it to happen.
My word you are ignorant and naive. Unemployment is rising and set to worsen due to the massive cuts in government spending, which will also have repurcussions in the private sector on businesses who rely on council,NHS etc contracts, and all you can say to people facing reduncancy is \"be proactive\". How the hell can someone be \"proactive\" and find a job that doesn't exist.
I hate swearing, but you're a tool (http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/260819/thumbnail/smiley%20sign%20you%20are%20stupid.gif)
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nice one rovers wrote:
Look, you know when you're having a chat, talk, discussion, debate, and in over 1500 posts nobody has yet agreed with a single thing you've said, then it's probably time to stand back a bit and re-think your life philosophies.
There are people who agree. Look further back, you'll find it.
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How the hell can someone be \"proactive\" and find a job that doesn't exist.
Start their own business?
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MrFrost wrote:
nice one rovers wrote:
Look, you know when you're having a chat, talk, discussion, debate, and in over 1500 posts nobody has yet agreed with a single thing you've said, then it's probably time to stand back a bit and re-think your life philosophies.
There are people who agree. Look further back, you'll find it.
A lot of people agreed with \"Meine Kampfe\".
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bobjimwilly wrote:
MrFrost wrote:
Tell you what, instead of moping about worrying about losing your job, being turfed onto the streets. Do something proactive about it instead of waiting for it to happen.
My word you are ignorant and naive. Unemployment is rising and set to worsen due to the massive cuts in government spending, which will also have repurcussions in the private sector on businesses who rely on council,NHS etc contracts, and all you can say to people facing reduncancy is \"be proactive\". How the hell can someone be \"proactive\" and find a job that doesn't exist.
I hate swearing, but you're a tool (http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/260819/thumbnail/smiley%20sign%20you%20are%20stupid.gif)
Then blame that on Brown and his blank cheque book. Look at the comments regarding Gordon Brown being reported today from Tony Blair.
There are two choices aren't there really. You accept defeat. Resign yourself to the fact you've lost your job, house etc. Or you can try and take action now, to prepare yourself if the worst does happen.
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MrFrost wrote:
bobjimwilly wrote:
MrFrost wrote:
Tell you what, instead of moping about worrying about losing your job, being turfed onto the streets. Do something proactive about it instead of waiting for it to happen.
My word you are ignorant and naive. Unemployment is rising and set to worsen due to the massive cuts in government spending, which will also have repurcussions in the private sector on businesses who rely on council,NHS etc contracts, and all you can say to people facing reduncancy is \"be proactive\". How the hell can someone be \"proactive\" and find a job that doesn't exist.
I hate swearing, but you're a tool (http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/260819/thumbnail/smiley%20sign%20you%20are%20stupid.gif)
Then blame that on Brown and his blank cheque book. Look at the comments regarding Gordon Brown being reported today from Tony Blair.
There are two choices aren't there really. You accept defeat. Resign yourself to the fact you've lost your job, house etc. Or you can try and take action now, to prepare yourself if the worst does happen.
You're either very clever, or you've been very lucky in life. I'm guessing it's the latter.
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I've not been lucky at all pal. I was brought up by a single mother on a council estate. I left school with hardly any qualifications because I couldn't be arsed and didn't go most of the time. I had a string of dead end jobs before I decided to pull myself together and make something of myself.
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MrFrost wrote:
There are two choices aren't there really. You accept defeat. Resign yourself to the fact you've lost your job, house etc. Or you can try and take action now, to prepare yourself if the worst does happen.
And how do you prepare for the worst, exactly, if money's already tight and there's no jobs? :blink:
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MrFrost wrote:
I've not been lucky at all pal. I was brought up by a single mother on a council estate. I left school with hardly any qualifications because I couldn't be arsed and didn't go most of the time. I had a string of dead end jobs before I decided to pull myself together and make something of myself.
Is there anything wrong with single mothers and council estates? You seem to have done well to raise yourself up above such indignities.
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What's frightening is that people like you eventually get in power.
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nice one rovers wrote:
MrFrost wrote:
I've not been lucky at all pal. I was brought up by a single mother on a council estate. I left school with hardly any qualifications because I couldn't be arsed and didn't go most of the time. I had a string of dead end jobs before I decided to pull myself together and make something of myself.
Is there anything wrong with single mothers and council estates? You seem to have done well to raise yourself up above such indignities.
I never said there was anything wrong with it. I was merely pointing out that I wasn't as lucky as some, and I certainly born with any kind of silver spoon.
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bobjimwilly wrote:
MrFrost wrote:
There are two choices aren't there really. You accept defeat. Resign yourself to the fact you've lost your job, house etc. Or you can try and take action now, to prepare yourself if the worst does happen.
And how do you prepare for the worst, exactly, if money's already tight and there's no jobs? :blink:
So there are no jobs? What so ever? My Mum's fella was unlucky to be laid off a few months back. He went straight to a recruitment agency and got a job in a warehouse the very next day. Not perfect, not his nice 9-5 desk job he was used to, but its a job.
And I go back to the people who became unemployed when the labour regime went tits up. But we cant say a bad word about them can we?
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Thinwhiteduke wrote:
MrFrost wrote:
I was a kid during the last Tory Government. I had a decent upbringing despite coming from a one parent family. I didn't go without.
I personally have suffered, as have my family under the Labour government, so why shouldn't I defend the Tories?
Now I guess once again I will be lambasted for being in the minority on this forum who voted Tory. Who cares. I have my beliefs, as do you. Why are mine any less credible?
Frosty.
I started School in '79, under a Tory regime, a working class kid who's mum picked potatoes for a living and Dad shovelled Sand at a Builders Merchants. I have no issue with them at all.
My parents paid extortianate interest rates under the same regime, they benefited from the 'Right To Buy Scheme' and always have been, and always will be, Conservative Voters. My mum, under said regime, set up her own dry cleaners, my dad worked to become a Chief Officer in Humberside Fire Service.
Our lass's Dad a former miner in a mining community, voted Conservative this time out - you telling me he wasnt aware of the Tories in the 80's?? But whilst the Mining industry was being brought to its knees, he did the sensible thing, pre empted it and gained employment elsewhere.
Our lass, who works for Doncaster Council, has 4 interviews with Private Companies this week, cos she can see that the Council is over bloated and inefficient.At the end of the day, it wont hurt for our Public services to have to be run more like Private Companies - with defined targets, economically and with Value for Money.
I'll also go back to this post, which is the only other one that makes sense here.
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MrFrost wrote:
What I find strange is that people are questioning the needs for cuts.
Because, soft lad, cutting Government spending when the private sector is on it's knees is THE most dangerous thing that a Government can do. Even a Market-fundamentalist organisation like the IMF said that last week. It us simple textbook economics.
And cutting Government expenditure more quickly and deeply than at any time in living memory is sheer, ideologically-driven suicidal recklessness.
Yes, cuts have to be made, but not now and certainly not this deeply. It is vital, ABSOLUTELY VITAL for the good of the country and the economy that Government spending rakes up the slack unt the private sector gets up and running again. Decimating public spending now runs the huge risk of utterly destroying what faint recovery there is.
The Tories' economic forecasts suggest that the overall economy will grow by 2.7% per year by 2015. But their own figures say that their cutbacks in Government spending will be the equivalent of a 6% per year reduction in growth. So they are actually assuming that the private sector will grow at 8.7% per year. Whichbis about what China typically manages. And higher than we have managed in more than a century. Utter, rank f**king stupidity if the most dangerous kind.
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What have they actually cut so far? They've stopped some redevlopment plans, the schools project (which to be honest was a far from convincing idea in the first place). They plan to cut £1 billion from the administration of the NHS, taking away alot of needless red tape. They actually don't plan to cut the NHS funding, as labour actually intended to do.
There is a public sector pay freeze. Labour actually had plans to cut more public sector jobs than the Tories.
Unemployment is actually on the decrease at the moment, and there are now less people claiming benefits than there were in March last year.
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MrFrost wrote:
What have they actually cut so far? They've stopped some redevlopment plans, the schools project (which to be honest was a far from convincing idea in the first place). They plan to cut £1 billion from the administration of the NHS, taking away alot of needless red tape. They actually don't plan to cut the NHS funding, as labour actually intended to do.
There is a public sector pay freeze. Labour actually had plans to cut more public sector jobs than the Tories.
Unemployment is actually on the decrease at the moment, and there are now less people claiming benefits than there were in March last year.
Have you been to all the secondary schools in the country to check what state they are in? As part of my job I have been involved in many BSF projects and, believe me, the facilities need refurbishing or new buildings redeveloped. Your arguement that the project isnt needed doesnt sway me one jot
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MrFrost wrote:
Unemployment is actually on the decrease at the moment, and there are now less people claiming benefits than there were in March last year.
Until my mates and I sign on next month as we're no longer students and can't gain employment.
But on the whole I don't think the government's done too bad, in fact I expected cuts to be bigger than they are. Surely removing the ridiculous notion of a primary school head earning 200k is not a bad thing? Neither is the ridiculous amount of NHS admin. Now it doesn't help me, in fact it hinders me as I'm competing with people nearly twice my age who understandably have way more experience, that really isn't easy. However, I can understand why it's the way it is and I just have to live with it.
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MrFrost wrote:
What have they actually cut so far? They've stopped some redevlopment plans, the schools project (which to be honest was a far from convincing idea in the first place). They plan to cut £1 billion from the administration of the NHS, taking away alot of needless red tape. They actually don't plan to cut the NHS funding, as labour actually intended to do.
There is a public sector pay freeze. Labour actually had plans to cut more public sector jobs than the Tories.
Unemployment is actually on the decrease at the moment, and there are now less people claiming benefits than there were in March last year.
Do you not watch the news? Have you not seen the state of some of these schools? You cannot honestly say that the kids who attend these decaying schools don't deserve the chance to be educated in classrooms that don't leak when it rains, that aren't rotten and structurally unsound.. Or can you?
How wonderful is a government who has had to recount it's list on schools so many times? It gives very little confidence in anything else they might also be doing .
You yourself are growing quite an interesting list here... from housing to race relations to education.......
I don't think I dare ask what your stance is on capital punishment.....
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BillyStubbsTears wrote:
MrFrost wrote:
What I find strange is that people are questioning the needs for cuts.
Decimating public spending now runs the huge risk of utterly destroying what faint recovery there is.
What recovery? The banks are still broke and as we're seeing now, the rally has been based on stimulus and money printing. Our debts are already sky high according to the Independent today four times higher than previously acknowledged:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/britainrsquos-debt-the-untold-story-2025979.html
It's highly uncertain as to whether private sector spending and employment are able to fill the gap that the cuts in public spending leave but we don't have any choice in the matter. Britain now has to cut back and a Labour government would have had to too. Other economies are trimming their deficits. If we don't follow suit, it'll be targeted by investors worrying about sovereign debt.
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jucyberry wrote:
MrFrost wrote:
What have they actually cut so far? They've stopped some redevlopment plans, the schools project (which to be honest was a far from convincing idea in the first place). They plan to cut £1 billion from the administration of the NHS, taking away alot of needless red tape. They actually don't plan to cut the NHS funding, as labour actually intended to do.
There is a public sector pay freeze. Labour actually had plans to cut more public sector jobs than the Tories.
Unemployment is actually on the decrease at the moment, and there are now less people claiming benefits than there were in March last year.
Do you not watch the news? Have you not seen the state of some of these schools? You cannot honestly say that the kids who attend these decaying schools don't deserve the chance to be educated in classrooms that don't leak when it rains, that aren't rotten and structurally unsound.. Or can you?
How wonderful is a government who has had to recount it's list on schools so many times? It gives very little confidence in anything else they might also be doing .
You yourself are growing quite an interesting list here... from housing to race relations to education.......
I don't think I dare ask what your stance is on capital punishment.....
Do we need half the stuff in these schools. Just 7 years ago when I was at school we had white boards and that was it. Now they have computerised boards, some classrooms have a laptop for each student and 3D interactive lessons. But do they need them? I was always quite happy with a simple blackboard. My school was Armthorpe, falling down a bit it was, but a patched up job did enough. Why do we need multi million pound schools and mega technology when we are essentially teaching the same stuff?
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Yes, I think we do. We live in an ever developing world of technology, Children need to be able to grow apace with this growth. and yes, they do deserve to be able to do it in surroundings condusive to that learning..
Why should they have to do it in surroundings that are cold, and unsafe?
Surely the future is one area that should be tended with the greatest care.
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jucyberry wrote:
I don't think I dare ask what your stance is on capital punishment.....
My guess? He's one of the hang 'em brigade who spout that capital punishment should be brought in where someone is '100% guilty', but don't have the wit to realise that this will result in more acquittals.
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Can I congratulate Mr Frost on his postings. I profoundly disagree with (nearly) everything he has ever written, but this board would be a much duller place without him. And it never hurts to have someone hold a stance you disagree with - so you remember why you disagree with it in the first place.
I could tell you that I was in Trafalagr Square in March 1990 during the Poll Tax Riots, working on a building site nest to Keadby Power Station in 1984 when the miners came to picket it and the police charged them across the fields, worked as a volunteer for Shelter & St Martin's homeless charities in London in the late 80's feeding the people in the cardboard boxes (got filmed by the Beeb too but never seen it myself) was at Ruskin College in 1993-1994 when Mandleson, Blair, Brown etc came to have meetings with the lecturers there to plan 'New' Labour after the death of John Smith, was in Bucharest in 1990 during the protests against the goverment drafting in the miners to break the call for 'proper' democracy and in Israel in 1996, leaving two days before the intafada broke out and then saw on the news one of the Arab lads I had been working alongside waving a gun and swearing to overthrow zionism or die.
What does this life experience give me, nothing but the knowledge to say, shit happens all over the world and it is generally the poor who suffer; after 16 years of the last Tory goverment was the country in any better state after it than before - and why will this bunch of tossers be any different?
I also work in local goverment, so my job is only marginaly safer than the OP. I dislike the PCT for what they have done in wrecking community care in the area where I live and I am afraid I wont shed any tears over their passing, but that is not the fault of those who worked for them but the rational in why they were set up. Good luck in finding a new job, there are always oportunities for someone with a bit of go about them, a lot of us have been there before you so it can be done.
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wilts rover wrote:
Can I congratulate Mr Frost on his postings. I profoundly disagree with (nearly) everything he has ever written, but this board would be a much duller place without him. And it never hurts to have someone hold a stance you disagree with - so you remember why you disagree with it in the first place.
I could tell you that I was in Trafalagr Square in March 1990 during the Poll Tax Riots, working on a building site nest to Keadby Power Station in 1984 when the miners came to picket it and the police charged them across the fields, worked as a volunteer for Shelter & St Martin's homeless charities in London in the late 80's feeding the people in the cardboard boxes (got filmed by the Beeb too but never seen it myself) was at Ruskin College in 1993-1994 when Mandleson, Blair, Brown etc came to have meetings with the lecturers there to plan 'New' Labour after the death of John Smith, was in Bucharest in 1990 during the protests against the goverment drafting in the miners to break the call for 'proper' democracy and in Israel in 1996, leaving two days before the intafada broke out and then saw on the news one of the Arab lads I had been working alongside waving a gun and swearing to overthrow zionism or die.
What does this life experience give me, nothing but the knowledge to say, shit happens all over the world and it is generally the poor who suffer; after 16 years of the last Tory goverment was the country in any better state after it than before - and why will this bunch of tossers be any different?
I also work in local goverment, so my job is only marginaly safer than the OP. I dislike the PCT for what they have done in wrecking community care in the area where I live and I am afraid I wont shed any tears over their passing, but that is not the fault of those who worked for them but the rational in why they were set up. Good luck in finding a new job, there are always oportunities for someone with a bit of go about them, a lot of us have been there before you so it can be done.
Cracking last paragraph there.
I dare say had I been a miner, or suffered personally under the Tories, I may feel different. But I didn't. I base who I vote for on personal experiences, and how I feel me and those close to me will benefit from a particular party.
I'm sorry if people see this as selfish, but thats the way I am.
The Tories will probably make mistakes, and people will come down on them like a ton of bricks. What I don't see many people doing is mentioning the mistakes Labour made.
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MrFrost wrote:
I'm sorry if people see this as selfish, but thats the way I am.
Don't you just love it when a right-wing t**t finally comes clean and gets right to the heart of the matter.
Never met one yet who doesn't have this egotistical selfishness at the core if their value system.
Hey ho. Takes all sorts.
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I'm just glad BST that I really don't care what you think of me. I certainly won't lose any sleep over it that's for sure!
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big fat yorkshire pudding wrote:
Until my mates and I sign on next month as we're no longer students and can't gain employment.
But on the whole I don't think the government's done too bad, in fact I expected cuts to be bigger than they are.
That's a pretty stupid comment, they've barely been in office two months so what exactly were you expecting to see at this stage? If you were privvy to what is going on behind the scenes you may be a little more alarmed. The situation may become slightly clearer after the spending review in October, but the effects can only really be judged over time.
It's very easy for people to sit back and say cut this, cut that and cut the other. The consequences are and will be a lot more far-reaching than just telling people to go out and sign on or find another job. Services that vulnerable people have come to rely on will be at serious risk over the coming years, it is inevitable as we are entering a stage where providers are left with no option than to look at ways of doing less for less. There is such a thing as a social conscience and it extends beyond just worrying about other peoples employment prospects (which it's obvious you can afford to be flippant about). You may not need social services, for example, so it doesn't matter to you, but if you can't spare a thought for people that do then I think that's pretty sad.
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My best friend works for a mental health charity, I won't say which one. Over the coming months she has already been told they have to make huge cuts. The day center she runs is looking more and more like it will if not close, be severely restricted.. Service users have had their funding removed. this is the thin end of the wedge, as Jonathan says, the vunerable are the ones who will suffer first.....
But then, I guess that doesn't matter because all they do is take from the system, unlike the majority who put in...........isn't that right?
I fear in its fervor to prune back the 'dead wood' many vunerable people, the old, the infirm, people with mental health problems and the single parents are going to be pruned into abject poverty.
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Jonathan wrote:
big fat yorkshire pudding wrote:
Until my mates and I sign on next month as we're no longer students and can't gain employment.
But on the whole I don't think the government's done too bad, in fact I expected cuts to be bigger than they are.
That's a pretty stupid comment, they've barely been in office two months so what exactly were you expecting to see at this stage? If you were privvy to what is going on behind the scenes you may be a little more alarmed. The situation may become slightly clearer after the spending review in October, but the effects can only really be judged over time.
It's very easy for people to sit back and say cut this, cut that and cut the other. The consequences are and will be a lot more far-reaching than just telling people to go out and sign on or find another job. Services that vulnerable people have come to rely on will be at serious risk over the coming years, it is inevitable as we are entering a stage where providers are left with no option than to look at ways of doing less for less. There is such a thing as a social conscience and it extends beyond just worrying about other peoples employment prospects (which it's obvious you can afford to be flippant about). You may not need social services, for example, so it doesn't matter to you, but if you can't spare a thought for people that do then I think that's pretty sad.
It's not a case of not sparing a thought for people. But would you agree the majority of voters vote for the party they see as the best choice for them and their family?
As i've pointed out before, if you want to blame anyone for cuts, try looking at the last government and their insane overspending. Someone was going to have to put it right. Whether the coalition do a decent job of it remains to be seen. I do find it encouraging that employment is currently rising. We will have to see if that continues.
I also believe the white paper and abolishing the PCT will have a better effect on the NHS. Labour actually wanted to reduce NHS spending, the colaition don't.
As you rightly pointed out Jonathan, we will have a better understanding of the situation later on in the year.
If my nature is being portrayed as selfish, then so be it. I simply voted for a party I believed would serve me and my family the best. However, what I see alot of people jumping on a bandwagon to slate the coalition because they are now the easy target.
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jucyberry wrote:
My best friend works for a mental health charity, I won't say which one. Over the coming months she has already been told they have to make huge cuts. The day center she runs is looking more and more like it will if not close, be severely restricted.. Service users have had their funding removed. this is the thin end of the wedge, as Jonathan says, the vunerable are the ones who will suffer first.....
But then, I guess that doesn't matter because all they do is take from the system, unlike the majority who put in...........isn't that right?
I fear in its fervor to prune back the 'dead wood' many vunerable people, the old, the infirm, people with mental health problems and the single parents are going to be pruned into abject poverty.
Look at why the cuts have to be made. Perhaps because the countries financial situation is far worse than thought when the colaition took power.
Forgive me for being ignorant, but does the charities funding come direct from the government? Serious question. I have no idea how that works, so i'd actually be interested to know.
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It must do, she is forever telling me how hard it has been to explain to people that it isn't the charity who will be cutting funding , but that it is from government. all areas of the mental health sector are to be tightened from what I can make out. And as the last wave of cuts and alterations gave us a care in the community that didn't seem to care much at all, I guess it's something to think about.
Well, I have to go to bed, I over slept this morning ..Not good...
nighty night mr frost et al, sweet dreams.. :kiss:
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1) See Mr Frost, you can't help playing up to the Tory t**t stereotype can you. Being a self-confessed selfish type, you really can't believe that people are actually capable of considering the wider context, the collective can you? How deeply sad.
2) What f**king \"insane overspending\"? We went into the recession with the lowest total debt as a percentage of GDP of any major economy. Lower than America. Lower than Germany. About half that of either Japan or Italy. How does THAT square with your claim of \"insane overspending\"? The problem we were then faced with is that our economy was particularly exposed to a banking collapse (a collapse which not one major politician or economist predicted). So our Government finances took a double hit - we had to bail out the banks or face an utter financial and economic catastrophe, and we lost serious tax income because of the banking crisis. The Labour Government then, like all other major Western governments deliberately injected a fiscal stimulus into the economy to prevent a vicious recession turning into a God-awful Depression. There was no \"insane spending\". If you believe differently, spell it out in numbers. Otherwise, stop rabbiting trite soundbites and expect to be taken seriously.
3) So the Tories' Great Plan for the NHS is to let GPs run the whole show eh? Well God-f**king-help-us-all. It was a GP who sent my Dad away with a bottle of Gaviscon when he was in the first stages of his fatal heart attack. It was a GP who repeatedly gave my father-in-law prescriptions for Benylin when he went complaining of a hacking cough for 4 years. The Benylin didn't do much for the lung cancer that was the cause of the cough and that killed him.
GPs in charge of the NHS? Genius. Could only have been thought up by the Party that thought splitting up the railways into a couple of dozen private monopolies was a wizzard wheeze.
4) Why the f**k do you think employment has risen slightly over the last few months? Could it just possibly be because of the deliberate policies of the last Government, in reducing VAT and allowing huge Quantitative Easing to help stimulate the economy? And what do you think the effect od the Tories' policies of cutting Government spending by £70bn will be? To INCREASE employment? Don't make me chuckle. Even their own predictions reckon that unemployment will be half a million higher by 2013 than it is now. And that's assuming that the private sector suddenly rises, Lazarus-like from its death bed. You are living in Cloud-Cuckoo Land pal.
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MrFrost wrote:
It's not a case of not sparing a thought for people. But would you agree the majority of voters vote for the party they see as the best choice for them and their family?
As i've pointed out before, if you want to blame anyone for cuts, try looking at the last government and their insane overspending. Someone was going to have to put it right. Whether the coalition do a decent job of it remains to be seen. I do find it encouraging that employment is currently rising. We will have to see if that continues.
I also believe the white paper and abolishing the PCT will have a better effect on the NHS. Labour actually wanted to reduce NHS spending, the colaition don't.
As you rightly pointed out Jonathan, we will have a better understanding of the situation later on in the year.
If my nature is being portrayed as selfish, then so be it. I simply voted for a party I believed would serve me and my family the best. However, what I see alot of people jumping on a bandwagon to slate the coalition because they are now the easy target.
You can't just look at it from one perspective Frosty. You accuse people of being on the 'bandwagon' of slating the coalition, but how would you refer to your perspective of choosing to blame the previous regime for the fact that the Conservatives are currently implementing their own political ideology? Would you suggest that the planned shrinking of the public service sector (that happens to be a particularly significant employer in areas of Northern England that saw their industrial backgrounds decimated) is purely a consequence of the previous Government?
I'll not just mindlessly blame the coalition (or should I say the Tories) for everything. There are certain elements of their action I'm in theoretically in favour of, for example if they can remove some of the obstructive red tape and bureaucracy associated with service provision then very few could argue against that being a positive thing, but my worries about the more far-reaching effects still stand and are valid. It is far too early to hang them based on what little they've done so far, but I would defend the right of people to put an educated argument forward as to why their proposals put the future of the economic recovery, and the prosperity of so many people, at risk.
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Night jucy............. ;)
\"Look at why the cuts have to be made. Perhaps because the countries financial situation is far worse than thought when the colaition took power \"
I have looked at the way the cuts have been made, frostyboy, and to me it smacks of opportunism by the blood blood Kitsons. Let's big up the financial crisis and push through things we'd never get away with otherwise.
message for Mr Frost
I know you've made things interesting on here and just wondered if you were planning on bringing out a book..........you know the sort of thing \"Everything you ever wanted to know that ran round Mr Frost's head\"
I'd suggest you made it big, hard and empty
;)
If I can I'll pick up this tomorrow after work because unfortunately I'm too busy earning a crust. Hope your business isn't suffering because of your constancy on the board.
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BillyStubbsTears wrote:
1) See Mr Frost, you can't help playing up to the Tory t**t stereotype can you. Being a self-confessed selfish type, you really can't believe that people are actually capable of considering the wider context, the collective can you? How deeply sad.
2) What fcuking \"insane overspending\"? We went into the recession with the lowest total debt as a percentage of GDP of any major economy. Lower than America. Lower than Germany. About half that of either Japan or Italy. How does THAT square with your claim of \"insane overspending\"? The problem we were then faced with is that our economy was particularly exposed to a banking collapse (a collapse which not one major politician or economist predicted). So our Government finances took a double hit - we had to bail out the banks or face an utter financial and economic catastrophe, and we lost serious tax income because of the banking crisis. The Labour Government then, like all other major Western governments deliberately injected a fiscal stimulus into the economy to prevent a vicious recession turning into a God-awful Depression. There was no \"insane spending\". If you believe differently, spell it out in numbers. Otherwise, stop rabbiting trite soundbites and expect to be taken seriously.
3) So the Tories' Great Plan for the NHS is to let GPs run the whole show eh? Well God-fcuking-help-us-all. It was a GP who sent my Dad away with a bottle of Gaviscon when he was in the first stages of his fatal heart attack. It was a GP who repeatedly gave my father-in-law prescriptions for Benylin when he went complaining of a hacking cough for 4 years. The Benylin didn't do much for the lung cancer that was the cause of the cough and that killed him.
GPs in charge of the NHS? Genius. Could only have been thought up by the Party that thought splitting up the railways into a couple of dozen private monopolies was a wizzard wheeze.
4) Why the fcuk do you think employment has risen slightly over the last few months? Could it just possibly be because of the deliberate policies of the last Government, in reducing VAT and allowing huge Quantitative Easing to help stimulate the economy? And what do you think the effect od the Tories' policies of cutting Government spending by £70bn will be? To INCREASE employment? Don't make me chuckle. Even their own predictions reckon that unemployment will be half a million higher by 2013 than it is now. And that's assuming that the private sector suddenly rises, Lazarus-like from its death bed. You are living in Cloud-Cuckoo Land pal.
Where do you get your figures from? I have just watched, not ten minutes ago that although around 500,000 public sector jobs could be lost over the next few years, over 1.6 million private sector jobs are expected to be created. That doesn't tie in with what you have just quoted.
Insane overspending, I'll give a few examples.
Business Link. Set up suppoisdly help new businesses. It was set up during the last Tory government, however in 2004 labour sactioned the spending of £35 million a year for their new website. Don't make me laugh. The advice they give is nothing that you cannot get from a book in the library or on the internet yourself.
Last year Labour were spending more than £258 million per day.
Here we have some more evidence:
Project: NHS national IT programme
•Budget £2.3bn
•Current cost £12.6bn
•Percentage overspent 450%
•Established in October 2002, under Alan Milburn, scheme to link 30,000 GPs in England to nearly 300 hospitals has been derided for huge costs and technical problems.
Project: 2012 Olympics
•Budget £2.4bn
•Current cost £9.3bn
•Percentage overspent 289%
•The euphoria that greeted the decision to award London the 2012 Games has largely given way to concerns over spiralling costs.
Project: Astute Class submarine
•Budget £2.5bn
•Current cost £3.8bn
•Percentage overspent 48%
•The order for three of next-generation nuclear fleet submarines for the Royal Navy was announced in 1997 and subsequently increased to four. Only one has yet arrived.
Project: Pensions Transformation programme for DWP
•Budget £429m
•Current cost £598m
•Percentage overspent 39%
•An NAO report subsequently criticised the delays and overspend.
Project: A46 Improvement
•Budget £157m
•Current cost £220m
•Percentage overspent 40.1%
Closer to home - our new £80 million pound college. Look at the problems this place had, and still has. There was nothing wrong with the old place. A pipe dream to create a Doncaster University and obtain city status.
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MrFrost wrote:
Look at why the cuts have to be made. Perhaps because the countries financial situation is far worse than thought when the colaition took power.
Yeah, because the Tories would never have made any cuts otherwise, would they? :side:
They're using the excuse of the credit crunch to get done exactly what they would have done anyway.
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Never mind closing schools and hospitals.
I would decriminalise and tax all drugs, saving a fortune on police and prison services. We would probably be able to close 50% of the prisons immediately and open treatment centres instead. Evidence from abroad suggests such a move would lower rates of drug use and addiction, while improving the health of addicts. Crime rates, particularly burgalry would plummet. Happily we would also choke off a massive revenue stream currently flowing to South American ganglords and Afghan terrorists.
It seems to me it would be a fairly painless way of improving the nations finances. No politician would dare contemplate it obviously.
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River Don wrote:
I would decriminalise and tax all drugs, saving a fortune on police and prison services. We would probably be able to close 50% of the prisons immediately and open treatment centres instead. Evidence from abroad suggests such a move would lower rates of drug use and addiction, while improving the health of addicts. Crime rates, particularly burgalry would plummet. Happily we would also choke off a massive revenue stream currently flowing to South American ganglords and Afghan terrorists.
It seems to me it would be a fairly painless way of improving the nations finances. No politician would dare contemplate it obviously.
That's because it's b*llocks.
Unless you can convince me that the 'South American ganglords' and 'Afghan terrorists' will somehow sell their product to the UK at bargain prices instead of continuing to smuggle their stuff into places where it is still illegal and make at least ten times the profit...or can convince me of some other mysterious supply that will magically take the place of the supply currently smuggled into the UK...
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Still no comments regarding the labour overspend, of which the likes of BST deny existed.
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MrFrost wrote:
Still no comments regarding the labour overspend, of which the likes of BST deny existed.
If you are waiting for me to defend New Labour you will have a long wait. I am one of the people who voted for the dream in 1995, only to find we had actually voted for a party who were set on destroying or ignoring what they were supposed to stand for - Blair inviting Thatcher to Downing Street!! If you loose your morals and principles - you aint gonna be very good at running a country are you.
So my comment is; after 16 years of the last Tory rule and refusal to spend on the public services, we had schools, hospitals, social services, transport infrastructure in chaos, our manufacturing base had moved to India and Taiwan and with the drop-off in North Sea Oil were now relaint on power supplies from France and Russia to keep the lights on, Labour had a heck of a job on last time. As the Coalition now appear to want to do the same again - lets hope it is a shorter wait to fix it.
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Glyn_Wigley wrote:
River Don wrote:
I would decriminalise and tax all drugs, saving a fortune on police and prison services. We would probably be able to close 50% of the prisons immediately and open treatment centres instead. Evidence from abroad suggests such a move would lower rates of drug use and addiction, while improving the health of addicts. Crime rates, particularly burgalry would plummet. Happily we would also choke off a massive revenue stream currently flowing to South American ganglords and Afghan terrorists.
It seems to me it would be a fairly painless way of improving the nations finances. No politician would dare contemplate it obviously.
That's because it's b*llocks.
Unless you can convince me that the 'South American ganglords' and 'Afghan terrorists' will somehow sell their product to the UK at bargain prices instead of continuing to smuggle their stuff into places where it is still illegal and make at least ten times the profit...or can convince me of some other mysterious supply that will magically take the place of the supply currently smuggled into the UK...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jul/20/marijuana-factories-weed-oakland