Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: 1-0 to the Doncaster on November 25, 2015, 03:31:19 pm
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Bizarre situation last night I counted 12 stewards inc the "chief steward" called to eject a guy who always stands at back of east stand just where family area starts. Chief steward got a bit of grief from one fan for being well over top. Bang out of order by stewards any idea what happened??
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If it is the Chief Steward that fkd up the event in West Stand I was involved in, then I am sorry I was not there last night. He wants getting rid of..Hiding in his Official capacity my arse. he will no doubt get thumped yet by someone ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
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From my experience there are also idiots get invited to VIP( including Leeds supporters). I was once invited to lunch then found myself in a seat behind a loud mouthed ' Rubbish Rovers ! You're a load of w*****.! type, and his lumpy mate . I stayed silent until I had to ask him to shut up or eff off home. That caused the inevitable rucus that I always seem to cause when I meet negative bas**rds live at Keepmoat as opposed to on a forum
.The half time whistle gave both time to cool off ,and I had prepared,( with my wife's quiet influencial insistence) my explanation as to why negative comments against MY Rovers upset me . BUT he and his minder didn't return to their complimentary seats and had either gone home or were watching Sky Sports in the lounge drinking free VIP drinks on OUR club!
I don't like these free loaders you often get over East side on invitations from sponsors . Who invites them and why do they always pick a different MOM to the other 6,000 of us ?
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From my experience there are also idiots get invited to VIP( including Leeds supporters). I was once invited to lunch then found myself in a seat behind a loud mouthed ' Rubbish Rovers ! You're a load of w*****.! type, and his lumpy mate . I stayed silent until I had to ask him to shut up or eff off home. That caused the inevitable rucus that I always seem to cause when I meet negative b*****ds live at Keepmoat as opposed to on a forum
.The half time whistle gave both time to cool off ,and I had prepared,( with my wife's quiet influencial insistence) my explanation as to why negative comments against MY Rovers upset me . BUT he and his minder didn't return to their complimentary seats and had either gone home or were watching Sky Sports in the lounge drinking free VIP drinks on OUR club!
I don't like these free loaders you often get over East side on invitations from sponsors . Who invites them and why do they always pick a different MOM to the other 6,000 of us ?
You will normally find that the sponsors MOTM plays down the east stand side in the second half. Either that or it is someone the sponsors want to meet.
It is not that often that the sponsors MOTM is a popular choice with the majority of fans.
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It was our very own, SilentMajority. Was sat very close to Martin but don't know why it happened though.
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The very same mentioned on Facebook too.
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Is somebody at the club trying to prove some sort of point??? Firstly one of the DRSG committee and now this
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If this is true and Silent Majority has been ejected from the Keepmoat, then I despair.
Words fail me, which is probably a good thing.
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It's hard to believe that's for sure. But then Andy Liney being barred from Bradford was bizarre as well.
BobG
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As the OP says, very bizarre.
Doesn't post for over three years, in which quite a lot has happened to put it mildy, yet some bloke being ejected from the east stand is worthy of comment. It must have been some incident.
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It's hard to believe that's for sure. But then Andy Liney being barred from Bradford was bizarre as well.
BobG
Wasn't it Huddersfield Bob?
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Was definitely SM, I sit near Martin every match. Half a dozen of the Gestapo on a mission as an escort. Again, no idea why though.
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It's hard to believe that's for sure. But then Andy Liney being barred from Bradford was bizarre as well.
BobG
Wasn't it Huddersfield Bob?
Terriers !
http://www.examiner.co.uk/news/west-yorkshire-news/its-red-card-donny-dog-5059339
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Perhaps there IS NO alliance between club and Official Supporters Club. He has obviously rocked the boat but I think we should ALL stand up in support of him in any way deemed necessary. In recent contact with Martin over something I found him very supportive of my views and suddenly club wanted me to attend a function at pitch side. I declined.
Nothing alters in Politics, I can support the team from my front room and as Martin listened to me I shall withold my money until it becomes clearer.
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As we know, Martin is a strong campaigner for fans rights and champions fair deals and fair treatment for us all. Whilst I appreciate this incident is being looked in to, you can bet the Steward/stewards picked on the wrong one!
As said, let's hope some good comes out of it.
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Perhaps there IS NO alliance between club and Official Supporters Club Viking Supporters Co-operative.
;)
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Sorry. I put money in both and presumed wrongly there were connected.
BUT matters not. The incident if true shows the dangers of buying Season Tickets, you are identified by all at the club. Martin sticks up for the fans..Then HOW just HOW did employees of the club know where he was sitting and why was this done. Answer please Liam Scully or the Club CEO who have attempted recently to cover their tracks in an incident in West Stand match v Barnsley in 90th Minute in which I was involved.
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I know nothing about it but on the face of it does not sound good at all.
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On a previous deleted thread, somebody said can we not deal in speculation with regard to the fan who was ejected. Should we not be doing the likewise with the club's actions until more becomes clear?
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The stewards all twelve of them are employed by DRFC. One man requires twelve eager, ready and primed stewards. No reason there is there.
Perhaps you should make contact and ask for the club's statement
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Anyone know how you nominate someone for a sainthood?
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I perhaps unfairly yesterday mentioned the incident in a separate thread but have been in contact with a few since this has occurred.
A few things that I do know is that Martin is the best placed person in the ground to pick apart any wrong doings by stewards. He knows the training they should be given better than anyone at the club I've no doubt. With that in mind there must be some repercussions with this.
Secondly, as someone who witnessed an avoidable eviction early in the season there are some severe questions to be asked of those being tasked with doing so.
Why on earth any team was sent to deal with someone so well known to the club is beyond me and frankly an insult to the work Martin does for the club - for free - in his own time.
Lastly there seems to be some gaping gaps in terms of training on conflict resolution and ground regulations. These need fixing very very quickly as we can ill afford for this kind of situation to be carried out on any fan of DRFC.
Back to the drawing board!
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Anyone know how you nominate someone for a sainthood?
Luckily nobody here is suggesting that so we don't need to know.
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I think the club should bow its head in shame! Most people know (some don't) that Martin does a lot of work for the club in his own time and free of charge. He has been a supporter for over 50 years! Surly this should have earned him some sort or credibility!
I think the steward involved should have more training regarding his communication abilities, and spend time dealing with the real trouble causers at matches.
It's disgusting the way this has been handled by the club. Shame on you DRFC!!
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I perhaps unfairly yesterday mentioned the incident in a separate thread but have been in contact with a few since this has occurred.
A few things that I do know is that Martin is the best placed person in the ground to pick apart any wrong doings by stewards. He knows the training they should be given better than anyone at the club I've no doubt. With that in mind there must be some repercussions with this.
Secondly, as someone who witnessed an avoidable eviction early in the season there are some severe questions to be asked of those being tasked with doing so.
Why on earth any team was sent to deal with someone so well known to the club is beyond me and frankly an insult to the work Martin does for the club - for free - in his own time.
Lastly there seems to be some gaping gaps in terms of training on conflict resolution and ground regulations. These need fixing very very quickly as we can ill afford for this kind of situation to be carried out on any fan of DRFC.
Back to the drawing board!
I dont think it was unfair, Wes. To me, its a valid discussion to be had. After all, this could have happened to any one of us.
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I think the club should bow its head in shame! Most people know (some don't) that Martin does a lot of work for the club in his own time and free of charge. He has been a supporter for over 50 years! Surly this should have earned him some sort or credibility!
I think the steward involved should have more training regarding his communication abilities, and spend time dealing with the real trouble causers at matches.
It's disgusting the way this has been handled by the club. Shame on you DRFC!!
Has the club made a statement on this? If not, how can we know how the club has dealt with the situation yet? I am not defending nor condoning anything, but to say otherwise is speculation, unless I have missed something?
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Agree. IDM.
As I posted elsewhere, lets try not to speculate (and that means from both perspectives). This is still an ongoing matter.
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I perhaps unfairly yesterday mentioned the incident in a separate thread but have been in contact with a few since this has occurred.
A few things that I do know is that Martin is the best placed person in the ground to pick apart any wrong doings by stewards. He knows the training they should be given better than anyone at the club I've no doubt. With that in mind there must be some repercussions with this.
Secondly, as someone who witnessed an avoidable eviction early in the season there are some severe questions to be asked of those being tasked with doing so.
Why on earth any team was sent to deal with someone so well known to the club is beyond me and frankly an insult to the work Martin does for the club - for free - in his own time.
Lastly there seems to be some gaping gaps in terms of training on conflict resolution and ground regulations. These need fixing very very quickly as we can ill afford for this kind of situation to be carried out on any fan of DRFC.
Back to the drawing board!
I dont think it was unfair, Wes. To me, its a valid discussion to be had. After all, this could have happened to any one of us.
I wonder if all the DRSG directors agree..?
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I was sat next to Martin at the game so know exactly what occured. I have given the club a full description of events and am eagerly awaiting the result of the investigation as the behaviour of certain people left my son upset and wanting to leave the game 15 minutes into the second half.
I just want to say when it all comes out I hope Martin gets the proper apology he deserves.
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I perhaps unfairly yesterday mentioned the incident in a separate thread but have been in contact with a few since this has occurred.
A few things that I do know is that Martin is the best placed person in the ground to pick apart any wrong doings by stewards. He knows the training they should be given better than anyone at the club I've no doubt. With that in mind there must be some repercussions with this.
Secondly, as someone who witnessed an avoidable eviction early in the season there are some severe questions to be asked of those being tasked with doing so.
Why on earth any team was sent to deal with someone so well known to the club is beyond me and frankly an insult to the work Martin does for the club - for free - in his own time.
Lastly there seems to be some gaping gaps in terms of training on conflict resolution and ground regulations. These need fixing very very quickly as we can ill afford for this kind of situation to be carried out on any fan of DRFC.
Back to the drawing board!
I dont think it was unfair, Wes. To me, its a valid discussion to be had. After all, this could have happened to any one of us.
I wonder if all the DRSG directors agree..?
Yes. Why?
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I perhaps unfairly yesterday mentioned the incident in a separate thread but have been in contact with a few since this has occurred.
A few things that I do know is that Martin is the best placed person in the ground to pick apart any wrong doings by stewards. He knows the training they should be given better than anyone at the club I've no doubt. With that in mind there must be some repercussions with this.
Secondly, as someone who witnessed an avoidable eviction early in the season there are some severe questions to be asked of those being tasked with doing so.
Why on earth any team was sent to deal with someone so well known to the club is beyond me and frankly an insult to the work Martin does for the club - for free - in his own time.
Lastly there seems to be some gaping gaps in terms of training on conflict resolution and ground regulations. These need fixing very very quickly as we can ill afford for this kind of situation to be carried out on any fan of DRFC.
Back to the drawing board!
I dont think it was unfair, Wes. To me, its a valid discussion to be had. After all, this could have happened to any one of us.
I wonder if all the DRSG directors agree..?
What is a DRSG director?
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Because one of them gives me the impression his personal axe-grinding is more important to him than representing DRFC supporters interests regarding stewarding. To me, his continual vendetta just damages the integrity and credibility of the DRSG, which is a shame. But that's just my own impression, I don't pretend to speak for others.
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You would of course be welcome to that opinion. Without knowing which director you're referring to I couldn't possibly comment however I have emailed my concerns to the club regarding this incident and Neil has also been in contact with Martin having suffered with a similar incident of inept stewarding earlier in the season that I witnessed also.
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Because one of them gives me the impression his personal axe-grinding is more important to him than representing DRFC supporters interests regarding stewarding. To me, his continual vendetta just damages the integrity and credibility of the DRSG, which is a shame. But that's just my own impression, I don't pretend to speak for others.
:facepalm:
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Seems very strange that a DRSG director is ejected then a few weeks later a VSC director suffers the same fate................... conspiracy theory or just coincidence :)
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Seems very strange that a DRSG director is ejected then a few weeks later a VSC director suffers the same fate................... conspiracy theory or just coincidence :)
Look out Donny Dog I say .... bet they eject DD when he is en route to give me the Pukka Pies !
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Certain 'bouncers' get job satisfaction by ejecting a 'name'. I guess it comes with the job but the folk we employ are not supposed to be bouncers and thankfully the majority are there to help not hinder.
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Sorry. I put money in both and presumed wrongly there were connected.
BUT matters not. The incident if true shows the dangers of buying Season Tickets, you are identified by all at the club. Martin sticks up for the fans..Then HOW just HOW did employees of the club know where he was sitting and why was this done. Answer please Liam Scully or the Club CEO who have attempted recently to cover their tracks in an incident in West Stand match v Barnsley in 90th Minute in which I was involved.
Because SM was sat in the East Stand, wouldn't the club know where he was sat by his seat number?
I dont know whether he is a ST holder or not but either way you are allocated a seat in the East Stand.
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Seems very strange that a DRSG director is ejected then a few weeks later a VSC director suffers the same fate................... conspiracy theory or just coincidence :)
Look out Donny Dog I say .... bet they eject DD when he is en route to give me the Pukka Pies !
Watch out she DW our DD is a girl/woman/lady
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wasn't at game but if this is the same incident I was told then surly the fan involved with all his so called training knows that pushing a steward in the chest is classed as assault and is an ejection
I hope it got caught on cctv so the truth can come out either way
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Taking someone's mobile phone without consent is also robbery, and maybe the individual felt threatened by 10 or so "ejection squad" stewards? :aok:
Like you said, you wasn't at the game so all you're going on is hearsay. Maybe best to let this be settled by those involved?
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If thats the case, then the steward involved should be sacked and diciplined with immediate effect and reported to the SIA, he's gone well beyond his boundries!
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I recall that for quite some years the official advice of those that represent supporters was that the best way to prevent 'over zealous' policing, by both police and stewards, was to carry, and use, a camera. It appears that carrying a camera is now an offence....
I do suspect though that it might just be that using a camera inside a footy ground is a civil offence. Filming is banned isn't it? I wonder if taking snaps is? And if it is an 'offence', what rights to stewards have to confiscate the offending item? Precious few I would think given it can only be a civil matter at most.
Martin: you have a lot of friends mate. If you need anything, just let me, them, everyone know.
Cheers
BobG
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Martin
Goes without saying but I am in your corner my friend
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Just a thought: could this incident be the catalyst to a much more reasonable working relationship between the VSC and the DSRG? I hope so. It's a common cause. It's a cause that has affected both groups. It's a cause that could affect anybody at anytime. Seems like both groups should be working together.... I suspect they may already be doing so. Hope so. Congratulations to everyone who has offered an olive branch.
BobG
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If thats the case, then the steward involved should be sacked and diciplined with immediate effect and reported to the SIA, he's gone well beyond his boundries!
Damn right!!!! oh well thats me and Filo ejected next game :)
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Sad to read this thread in the extreme. Heaven help us all if SM is the sort now to be ejected from a football match. Corporate sponsors only soon if it carries on this way. No space for the normal responsible fan or fans champion.
Death of the game looms large.
Hang your heads DRFC.
My decision not to renew my season ticket after not so much as a "kiss my arse" after being chucked out my seat, followed by my first game since march stood in a bloody queue missing the first goal the other week because a pay on the day turnstile couldn't accept my money?
Always a fan but not a supporter with the way things are now.
Disgusted.
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I was close bye. I won't post anything at the present time until the proper channels have been used. When the facts are posted I can honestly say you will all be gobsmacked as to the totally inappropriate action by a complete arsehole of a steward. Martin was doing what he does, helping out a fellow younger fan that was being picked on. The reaction of our club/stewards was disgraceful at best. Sending a dozen stewards to eject a 60 year old law abiding supporter of 50 years or more. I was ashamed of my club and I still am. The further treatment given to him out of sight on the concourse is even more of concern. I thought we'd left all this behind years ago.
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Same theory also applies to some referees Rigo.
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Sadly. you'e right Rigo. I've forgotten the name of the chap who did it, but there was a real interesting experiment in an American university quite a few years ago now. One bunch of students in a house was told they had to do exactly what they were told by anther bunch of students. The other bunch were told they could make the first bunch do anything they liked.
These were all intelligent, middle class, well educated people. The cream of the crop so to speak. The experiment lasted, I think, 3 days before the academics had to step in - to stop somebody from being hurt.
The lesson they learned from the experiment was that there is a strong tendancy in people, when put in a position of authority over others, to abuse that power. And that those on the receiving end will almost (but not quite) always accept what's dished out to them. That's why what happened in Nazi Germany could happen anywhere, at any time. Look at Ruanda for one other obvious example. That's why these cretinous stewards at the KM, who are hardly the cream of any crop at all, did what they did.
BobG
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That's why these cretinous stewards at the KM, who are hardly the cream of any crop at all, did what they did.
Easy now, it's not on tarring all our Stewards, who consistently do well in away fan surveys and have an excellent relationship with our own fans, with the actions of a few idiots.
Just as Stewards shouldn't tar all football fans with the actions of a few moron "supporters".
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Sadly. you'e right Rigo. I've forgotten the name of the chap who did it, but there was a real interesting experiment in an American university quite a few years ago now. One bunch of students in a house was told they had to do exactly what they were told by anther bunch of students. The other bunch were told they could make the first bunch do anything they liked.
These were all intelligent, middle class, well educated people. The cream of the crop so to speak. The experiment lasted, I think, 3 days before the academics had to step in - to stop somebody from being hurt.
The lesson they learned from the experiment was that there is a strong tendancy in people, when put in a position of authority over others, to abuse that power. And that those on the receiving end will almost (but not quite) always accept what's dished out to them. That's why what happened in Nazi Germany could happen anywhere, at any time. Look at Ruanda for one other obvious example. That's why these cretinous stewards at the KM, who are hardly the cream of any crop at all, did what they did.
BobG
The Stanford experiment Bob, I believe they have made a film of it.
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That's why these cretinous stewards at the KM, who are hardly the cream of any crop at all, did what they did.
Easy now, it's not on tarring all our Stewards, who consistently do well in away fan surveys and have an excellent relationship with our own fans, with the actions of a few idiots.
Just as Stewards shouldn't tar all football fans with the actions of a few moron "supporters".
On the other side of this, I've praised the stewards that have looked after the South Stand this year. Jan and the guy with the mohican have been as much a part of Black Bank as the supporters. Jan has even contributed to the latest Crowdfunder for scarves. They've gained the respect of everyone up there and that's reflected in the response they get when they need to do their job.
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That's why these cretinous stewards at the KM, who are hardly the cream of any crop at all, did what they did.
Easy now, it's not on tarring all our Stewards, who consistently do well in away fan surveys and have an excellent relationship with our own fans, with the actions of a few idiots.
Just as Stewards shouldn't tar all football fans with the actions of a few moron "supporters".
On the other side of this, I've praised the stewards that have looked after the South Stand this year. Jan and the guy with the mohican have been as much a part of Black Bank as the supporters. Jan has even contributed to the latest Crowdfunder for scarves. They've gained the respect of everyone up there and that's reflected in the response they get when they need to do their job.
Agree with you Wes not all the stewards should be tarred with the same brush, let this incident be dealt with through the correct channels as RTR has stated.
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I despair with this club at times...I'm genuinely beginning to question Gavin for the first time....We cant sort out the catering after 3 years,We cant sort out our own stewards,We cant sort out overflowing toilets,nobody at the club ever answers a e-mail even bloody sponsorship and that's the start.....In Rovers we trust??????????? Gavin needs to get a bloody grip of one or two at this club because I don't trust them at the moment...And that's a very bad thing!!!!
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Wingco do you know what the club has and has not done in reaction to this incident?
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Nope not a clue,i haven't spoken to Martin,i'm sure he has enough on his plate at the minute..but it's just another in whats becoming a long list of failures that the clubs senior management seems incapable of addressing or putting right as far as I'm concerned...
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I despair with this club at times...I'm genuinely beginning to question Gavin for the first time....We cant sort out the catering after 3 years,We cant sort out our own stewards,We cant sort out overflowing toilets,nobody at the club ever answers a e-mail even bloody sponsorship and that's the start.....In Rovers we trust??????????? Gavin needs to get a bloody grip of one or two at this club because I don't trust them at the moment...And that's a very bad thing!!!!
I think you have very good reason to question Gavin Baldwin. Terry Bramall and Dick Watson etc are putting the money into the club but they have put him in charge of running it.
We all know he could write his knowledge of football on the back of a postage stamp but I thought he was supposed to be a good administrator?
There is a saying in business that you are as good as the people that work for you. I guess that says an awful lot!!
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Nope not a clue,i haven't spoken to Martin,i'm sure he has enough on his plate at the minute..but it's just another in whats becoming a long list of failures that the clubs senior management seems incapable of addressing or putting right as far as I'm concerned...
I have! At this moment in time the club have made zilch, zip, no contact with Martin at all which is disgusting considering the amount he has done for them, for free, over the years. Not even a phone call to ask how he is and to say "What happened there then Martin?"
If you witnessed the incident it might be worthwhile sending in a statement which will be met with. ' We are investigating'
Storm in a tea cup that could be settled in a matter of minutes if it was so inclined. :thumbdown:
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i've met Gavin a couple of times in meetings and there is no doubt he does talk a good game when it comes to business..But one thing running a business has taught me over the years is talking and doing are two different things..In Rovers we trust is good for fancy aims on boards in the concourses but its about reality and frankly we are going backwards fast when it comes to fans liason....Fans are ignored or given lip service and there doesn't seem to be the slightest appetite to put this right...One or two of his more recent appointments have got to be questioned too (not the manager)
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And I'm talking about Ryan Murrant there..Apparently he has won awards for fan engagement at his previous clubs..Personally I wouldn't pay him in brass buttons....
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On the flip side of things, I believe the club is much better run and far more professional than it was five or six years ago, looking from the outside in.
The only thing that's sometimes difficult to decipher is what the long-term aim/strategy is, when the owners opt to take the silent approach.
Come on Rigo. If we had given Brian the Blade the job he would have been better than the previous CEO.
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The major problem with this club is they try too hard to get new fans in, and give jack shit
care about existing customers.
I have had my own issues last season which made me stay away which i wont go into .
Me and my partner thought we would try again for the Bradford game , which we were refused entry , which again i will not go into . Martin has very kindly represented my complaints to the club , but its all fallen on deaf ears, no response at all from the club .
I am out of the habit of attending now , and will not return .
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I believe that this incident will receive the same cover up as the incident in the West Stand was. "A third party" investigated and found the club did nothing wrong "It will never happen again" ha ha ha.
The club did nothing end of. How dare fans complain against a football club. Look at what happens at Blackpool. That tells a story.
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I believe that this incident will receive the same cover up as the incident in the West Stand was. "A third party" investigated and found the club did nothing wrong "It will never happen again" ha ha ha.
The club did nothing end of. How dare fans complain against a football club. Look at what happens at Blackpool. That tells a story.
Which incident in the West Stand?
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When the young boy died and was revived. THAT ONE
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What makes you think there was a cover up? Genuinely interested.
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Just take it from me that there was because I was there and know what happened. The matter is still in the melting pot at this time and because of that I cannot say any more. I can tell you the club were eagre to get it forgotten.. Have you seen any statement from them about it. Oh of course other than Rob Jones face timed the boy in hospital well whoooopppeee do
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What statement do you expect them to make?
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On the flip side of things, I believe the club is much better run and far more professional than it was five or six years ago, looking from the outside in.
The only thing that's sometimes difficult to decipher is what the long-term aim/strategy is, when the owners opt to take the silent approach.
it's not the owners who are at fault here..They pay other people a lot of money to address these problems on a day to day basis..The fact they seem incapable of doing so or even replying to any e-mail whatever the department tells me the one thing this club is not run with is "professionalism"
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Just to add insult to injury, it might be worth taking a peek at the clubs web site and reading their Customer Charter. It's about a year or so out of date, but! They are only too keen to put across how they "value each and every loyal fan" and how "loyal fans are their greatest asset" what a load of poppycock!! Having just read that the club hasn't even contacted Martin is having me question the Customer Charter further. Come on DRFC put your words into action and show that you really do care and value your loyal fans. Stop hiding hoping it will go away, because I think you know it won't! Not in this instance anyhow.
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What statement do you expect them to make?
I agree. If they say "we screwed up" then that puts the club at risk of litigation. In this case the family just seem happy that everything ended well, but if they were put into the hands of some scummy ambulance chasers, who knows?
You have to hope that lessons genuinely have been learned. Having worked in plenty of organisations where lessons are always being "learned" then quietly forgotten about I'm sceptical but there we go!
But as for public statements, you won't get anything that might hint they got it wrong.
Back to the original topic, I wasn't there on Tuesday but I'm appalled by some of the things I've read. It needs sorting out, pronto.
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What statement do you expect them to make?
I agree. If they say "we screwed up" then that puts the club at risk of litigation. In this case the family just seem happy that everything ended well, but if they were put into the hands of some scummy ambulance chasers, who knows?
You have to hope that lessons genuinely have been learned. Having worked in plenty of organisations where lessons are always being "learned" then quietly forgotten about I'm sceptical but there we go!
But as for public statements, you won't get anything that might hint they got it wrong.
Exactly this. No sane business would put out a statement admitting liability (not that I'm convinced they're even remotely liable in this case). More to the point, better this lad collapsed at Rovers where there are trained medical staff to respond, even if it was too slow in the opinion of some, than if he was out on a walk in the country somewhere.
Sometimes I think people like kicking the club for the sake of it.
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DRFC....It is not a statement that is required it is a Code of Practice...No litigation what so ever, Now horse has gone so close the barn door. Or the Chairman of SWFC after the trouble in 1987 not 89 "Well nobody will get killed".
Me kick Doncaster Rovers FC. I am 65 and been going since I was 6 but I am no longer brow beaten by them.
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I also see you joined forum the day after the event on Tuesday.
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What bearing does my join date have?
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Oh, something springs to mind and your certain comments. Not a problem you are entitled to your say
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I think it's a disgrace the way Martin was ejected and I hope the Steward(s) responsible areremoved from the club.
Conversely, I don't think the club should be making statements potentially admitting responsibly for something out of their control. Hope that clears things up
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I accept your point and you have my apology. I also stated something similar about the stewards in the West Stand incident, it went very quiet and a third party said the club and stewards did nothing wrong. Not what everybody thinks. But never mind.
Again I say You have my apology
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wasn't at game but if this is the same incident I was told then surly the fan involved with all his so called training knows that pushing a steward in the chest is classed as assault and is an ejection
I hope it got caught on cctv so the truth can come out either way
Hmmm Martin lent across the family to his left two or three whole seats( Father and son) and pushed the steward in the chest with his left arm ( very Larry Grayson esk). Oooo! You are awful. For no reason what's so ever. Or....
Martin takes out his mobile phone out of his pocket because the steward refuses to give his name and number. The steward lunges across the said family, upsetting the kid so much he wanted to leave, knocking his grandad in the back who was sat in the seat in front, grabbing Martins right arm and trying to wrestle Martins phone out of his hand. Martin pushed him away with his left hand.......as you say it will all be on CCTV. I got the impression somebody somewhere had already made their mind up to eject him before the fracas as the Chief steward had no intention of having a 'quiet' word with Martin. The steward was the villain and it is Pantomime Season after all. :clapping:
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From my Police Days and when bouncers had done wrong under the cameras, it is amazing how many things can go wrong with CCTV or camera was aiming elsewhere.
If it was the little fat scruffy unshaven Chief Steward with a black tashe it does not surprise me. But one day he will over react and get caught out. Maybe a complaint of a breach of the peace be made to the Police, because he was acting outside of his duties and used more than the necessary force in the issue. BET THAT DOES NOT GET SHOWN ON CAMERA.
:clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
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From my Police Days and when bouncers had done wrong under the cameras, it is amazing how many things can go wrong with CCTV or camera was aiming elsewhere.
If it was the little fat scruffy unshaven Chief Steward with a black tashe it does not surprise me. But one day he will over react and get caught out. Maybe a complaint of a breach of the peace be made to the Police, because he was acting outside of his duties and used more than the necessary force in the issue. BET THAT DOES NOT GET SHOWN ON CAMERA.
:clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
The thing is and the more I think about it. It seemed very orchestrated from elsewhere the steward kept talking into his mic and receiving feedback from somebody who was 'directing' the precedings. At one point he shouted 'Did you see that? Did you see that?. My guess is the cameras were homed in specifically and the little man in the tower was conducting. :whistle:
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This isn't the description of a club I want to be part of.
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This isn't the description of a club I want to be part of.
I must admit I'm questioning my commitment and that of my kids. Do I want this?
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IF that post from someone as long supporting and respected as Naith doesn't get the senior management of this club worried about there attitude to the fans then nothing will.....I feel the same...
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The thing is and the more I think about it. It seemed very orchestrated from elsewhere the steward kept talking into his mic and receiving feedback from somebody who was 'directing' the precedings. At one point he shouted 'Did you see that? Did you see that?. My guess is the cameras were homed in specifically and the little man in the tower was conducting. :whistle:
That's been happening for years and happens with every security issue in the stands. It's definitely not a case specific thing.
But, people really have amazing double standards on these issues. When I posted about the CCTV, the searches outside the ground and threat of dogs we had earlier in the season people were all for it. If it stopped the pyros great they said!
Now we have potential examples of it being used indiscriminately and suddenly people have a different take on it.
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wasn't at game but if this is the same incident I was told then surly the fan involved with all his so called training knows that pushing a steward in the chest is classed as assault and is an ejection
I hope it got caught on cctv so the truth can come out either way
A few of your past posts touch on stewarding, are you part of the stewarding team?
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wasn't at game but if this is the same incident I was told then surly the fan involved with all his so called training knows that pushing a steward in the chest is classed as assault and is an ejection
I hope it got caught on cctv so the truth can come out either way
A few of your past posts touch on stewarding, are you part of the stewarding team?
A few of your past posts touch on football, are you a footballer?
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The thing is and the more I think about it. It seemed very orchestrated from elsewhere the steward kept talking into his mic and receiving feedback from somebody who was 'directing' the precedings. At one point he shouted 'Did you see that? Did you see that?. My guess is the cameras were homed in specifically and the little man in the tower was conducting. :whistle:
That's been happening for years and happens with every security issue in the stands. It's definitely not a case specific thing.
But, people really have amazing double standards on these issues. When I posted about the CCTV, the searches outside the ground and threat of dogs we had earlier in the season people were all for it. If it stopped the pyros great they said!
Now we have potential examples of it being used indiscriminately and suddenly people have a different take on it.
The thing is Copps, it appeared that a decision had already been made and this particular steward was sent to get a reaction just to justify the ejection. At no point was the approach calm and 'Excuse me Sir Can I have a quick word with you?" It was straight in with BAM! Shouting and balling, at the wrong guy by the way until Martin pointed out that is possibly him they were looking for. The steward was obnoxious from the get go! At one point in the proceedings, when they were asking his name, one steward said "Why are we asking his name we know who it is?" They came to force a reaction and were not getting one, so they created one.
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An incredulous set of events that harps back to the '70's.
Do we have any stewards that are 'frustrated bare knuckle fighters'? If so whoever employed them needs to go, along with these thugs.
Disgusted.
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wasn't at game but if this is the same incident I was told then surly the fan involved with all his so called training knows that pushing a steward in the chest is classed as assault and is an ejection
I hope it got caught on cctv so the truth can come out either way
A few of your past posts touch on stewarding, are you part of the stewarding team?
A few of your past posts touch on football, are you a footballer?
I have n't just made 20 posts in 3 years!
It's a reasonable question, because if the poster is connected to the stewarding team he shouldn't be contributing whilst there appears to be an investigation going on
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It was my family that the idiot knocked and I was privvy to the jumped up Barstewards every word on his headset to the control room. It was evident from the conversation the CCTV was homed in on Martin. When Martin refused to be intimidated by his threats he was on the headset with "he is being cocky with me, i'm not having it" we also had "Do you know who I am and what I could do to you?". All the time he was getting more irate. Martin pushed him away after he suddenly lunged across us knocking me, my son and my dad who was on the row infront in a violent attempt to grab Martins phone. He said "Thats it your going out now" and was straight on to the control room with "Did you see thast , Did you see that?".
I pointed out to him that it was him that he was in the wrong and I was told to shut up and stay out of it if you know whats good for you.
I have been going to the Rovers for 37 Years and my own group have 11 season tickets next to Martins group , I have sponsored events, sponsored the half time draw, had boxes and advertising boards over the years but as Rovers Return says in the light of what has happened I am seriously considering cutting all ties with the club if this doesn't get sorted and sorted swiftly.
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It was my family that the idiot knocked and I was privvy to the jumped up Barstewards every word on his headset to the control room. It was evident from the conversation the CCTV was homed in on Martin. When Martin refused to be intimidated by his threats he was on the headset with "he is being cocky with me, i'm not having it" we also had "Do you know who I am and what I could do to you?". All the time he was getting more irate. Martin pushed him away after he suddenly lunged across us knocking me, my son and my dad who was on the row infront in a violent attempt to grab Martins phone. He said "Thats it your going out now" and was straight on to the control room with "Did you see thast , Did you see that?".
I pointed out to him that it was him that he was in the wrong and I was told to shut up and stay out of it if you know whats good for you.
I have been going to the Rovers for 37 Years and my own group have 11 season tickets next to Martins group , I have sponsored events, sponsored the half time draw, had boxes and advertising boards over the years but as Rovers Return says in the light of what has happened I am seriously considering cutting all ties with the club if this doesn't get sorted and sorted swiftly.
So was it a regular steward or an SIA meathead?
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Wow. There has certainly been a can of worms opened but we do need to put the situation into a bit of perspective.
I suppose I should start by saying I'm really dissapointed in this situation occurring. Especially as it's not the first time it's occurred this season. I recall a few on this very forum not being as lenient on Neil when he had a similar situation yet let me reassure you, as the witness to that event from start to finish that was handled equally poorly and in the same fashion, there was a lot of goading and inflammatory behavior that was just waiting for a reaction.
However some of the reactions on here are potentially going a bit too far. The club employ over 100 staff at least and there is clearly a few that should have the buck stop at their feet for this occurring again.
However we've somehow managed to find criticism of the marketing and communication which regardless of the opinion of the few, has grossly improved over the last 12 months and the CEO who I believe has shifted the Pub Team set up off the pitch and made us a club that by and large operate in the right way.
Without a response from the club it's very hard to make a judgement on what's going on but my biggest concern, the same as with Neils ejection, is that I simply refuse to believe that they didn't know who Martin or Neil was in the control room and don't feel it could have been dealt with better than sending an ejection team to deal with it. There should be no special privileges - it should he the norm that as a club that prides itself on fan engagement, they try and rectify it with bouncers in a club coat.
To see some suggesting they aren't sure about attending anymore over this incident is absolutely crazy. Both Martin and Neil are Rovers mad and I've no doubt are aware that incidents of rash decision making and the wrong call at the wrong time occur. It's now over to the club to investigate properly and reassurances that an incident like this doesn't occur for any supporter in that Stadium.
Realistically Martin being the victim on this occasion is one of the most productive things that can happen as anyone who knows Martin will guarantee that this will be fought.
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:that:
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Wes, I was one who made sarcastic remarks about Neils ejection, and not trying to make excuses or justify my comments, my comments were made probly with previous events and actions in mind, it was wrong of me to do that and I aplogise to Neil for that. After stepping back a little and taking stock you realise that sometimes events start to control you and you get carried away with them, I and a few others I dare say just want to support our team in an enjoyable environment and credit goes to people such as yourself and Martin for championing the fans cause. I hope this gets resolved qiuckly and with the right result and if anything good comes out of it I hope it can bring fans from all side closer together for the benefit of all.
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Filo it was the bloke with Chief Steward on his coat.
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So that would make him a regular steward and a club employee, like Wes has said, I find it hard to believe he didn't know who he was ejecting. On the face of it and considering Neils ejection a few weeks ago it's hard to get away from thinking that those two ejections were targeted
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Why would anybody do this?
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If it's the one I'm thinking of he's the same bloke who spearheaded my symbolic ejection from the Darlo JPT game in the first season at the KMS too. It's being going on for far too long.
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P.S. Good to have you back on here, Wes.
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Wow. There has certainly been a can of worms opened but we do need to put the situation into a bit of perspective.
I suppose I should start by saying I'm really dissapointed in this situation occurring. Especially as it's not the first time it's occurred this season. I recall a few on this very forum not being as lenient on Neil when he had a similar situation yet let me reassure you, as the witness to that event from start to finish that was handled equally poorly and in the same fashion, there was a lot of goading and inflammatory behavior that was just waiting for a reaction.
However some of the reactions on here are potentially going a bit too far. The club employ over 100 staff at least and there is clearly a few that should have the buck stop at their feet for this occurring again.
However we've somehow managed to find criticism of the marketing and communication which regardless of the opinion of the few, has grossly improved over the last 12 months and the CEO who I believe has shifted the Pub Team set up off the pitch and made us a club that by and large operate in the right way.
Without a response from the club it's very hard to make a judgement on what's going on but my biggest concern, the same as with Neils ejection, is that I simply refuse to believe that they didn't know who Martin or Neil was in the control room and don't feel it could have been dealt with better than sending an ejection team to deal with it. There should be no special privileges - it should he the norm that as a club that prides itself on fan engagement, they try and rectify it with bouncers in a club coat.
To see some suggesting they aren't sure about attending anymore over this incident is absolutely crazy. Both Martin and Neil are Rovers mad and I've no doubt are aware that incidents of rash decision making and the wrong call at the wrong time occur. It's now over to the club to investigate properly and reassurances that an incident like this doesn't occur for any supporter in that Stadium.
Realistically Martin being the victim on this occasion is one of the most productive things that can happen as anyone who knows Martin will guarantee that this will be fought.
Hi WESISBACK,
I don't know you or your personal circumstances but, Do you have your kids with you? I do and when it happens in and around your family you have to question if you want to expose them to that enviroment when you can be enjoying your time elsewhere. I felt physically sick the other night witnessing what unfolded in front of me. I've been in some hairy situations home and abroad in my years following football and quite a few caused by the local police or/and the bully tactics of stewards. If you are of any age and were around in the sixties, seventies, and eighties you will know what I mean. We can't allow that sort of stewarding, we just can't stand there and ignore it. Do I feel like chucking in my season ticket and my families? Yes I do if I have to put up with that sort of stewarding at........wait for it........Doncaster 'Bloody' Rovers.....not Millwall,Lazio,Leeds........It's the year 2015 for god's sake not 1977.
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The more I read about this on here, two questions are at the forefront of my mind. The first being, do I want to be associated with this club? And, was this a targeted attack by the stewards? The answer to the first will come later when we see the outcome of it all, the answer to the second without doubt is yes!! Reading the other posts it would be impossible for it to be anything else!!
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You just have to wonder what the motive is really. If it is targeted, then why?
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Although neither incident warrants being kicked out, and certainly not in the manner that was witnessed on both occasions, I do think it's ok to treat each situation on their own merits as they were by different fans in different parts of the ground. Add to the fact how long Martin has been going to the Rovers, how long he has been a season ticker holder and the fact he is 60 (sorry Martin!) I think it's plain to see every part of what happened in his case was OTT. Like I said, I'm not discounting what has happened previously, but I'm not surprised that this incident has seemingly attracted more attention.
Rigo - I don't think it's appropriate to get the local press involved, and like you said they might not even be interested, but if they did mention it online or in the rag the club would be soley responsible for any negative publicity thereafter.
RedJ - A very interesting question, and one that has been alluded to already. I sincerely hope the club aren't playing these sorts of games, although I doubt it with Gavin in charge and his established relationship with Martin.
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There is understandably much outpouring of anger on here but as few of us actually witnessed what happened I think we need to give Martin and the club the time to resolve this before we all make knee jerk/emotive reactions.
Every fan should be treated the same regardless of what position they may or may not hold. I expect the club to deal with this in the correct manner and take appropriate action against anyone found guilty of wrongdoing. That said, if they fail to act in the proper manner then I don't know of anyone better placed than Martin to take them to task!
It's left a sour taste in all our mouths but its now all about how the club deal with it. Let's hope justice prevails and we are all satisfied with the outcome.
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Although neither incident warrants being kicked out, and certainly not in the manner that was witnessed on both occasions, I do think it's ok to treat each situation on their own merits as they were by different fans in different parts of the ground. Add to the fact how long Martin has been going to the Rovers, how long he has been a season ticker holder and the fact he is 60 (sorry Martin!) I think it's plain to see every part of what happened in his case was OTT.
What difference should it make what stand, who the supporter is or how long they've been going? A wrongful ejection is a wrongful ejection and I'd like to think that all fans and supporters groups would be as outraged as they are regardless of who the individual was?
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Wow. There has certainly been a can of worms opened but we do need to put the situation into a bit of perspective.
I suppose I should start by saying I'm really dissapointed in this situation occurring. Especially as it's not the first time it's occurred this season. I recall a few on this very forum not being as lenient on Neil when he had a similar situation yet let me reassure you, as the witness to that event from start to finish that was handled equally poorly and in the same fashion, there was a lot of goading and inflammatory behavior that was just waiting for a reaction.
However some of the reactions on here are potentially going a bit too far. The club employ over 100 staff at least and there is clearly a few that should have the buck stop at their feet for this occurring again.
However we've somehow managed to find criticism of the marketing and communication which regardless of the opinion of the few, has grossly improved over the last 12 months and the CEO who I believe has shifted the Pub Team set up off the pitch and made us a club that by and large operate in the right way.
Without a response from the club it's very hard to make a judgement on what's going on but my biggest concern, the same as with Neils ejection, is that I simply refuse to believe that they didn't know who Martin or Neil was in the control room and don't feel it could have been dealt with better than sending an ejection team to deal with it. There should be no special privileges - it should he the norm that as a club that prides itself on fan engagement, they try and rectify it with bouncers in a club coat.
To see some suggesting they aren't sure about attending anymore over this incident is absolutely crazy. Both Martin and Neil are Rovers mad and I've no doubt are aware that incidents of rash decision making and the wrong call at the wrong time occur. It's now over to the club to investigate properly and reassurances that an incident like this doesn't occur for any supporter in that Stadium.
Realistically Martin being the victim on this occasion is one of the most productive things that can happen as anyone who knows Martin will guarantee that this will be fought.
Hi WESISBACK,
I don't know you or your personal circumstances but, Do you have your kids with you? I do and when it happens in and around your family you have to question if you want to expose them to that enviroment when you can be enjoying your time elsewhere. I felt physically sick the other night witnessing what unfolded in front of me. I've been in some hairy situations home and abroad in my years following football and quite a few caused by the local police or/and the bully tactics of stewards. If you are of any age and were around in the sixties, seventies, and eighties you will know what I mean. We can't allow that sort of stewarding, we just can't stand there and ignore it. Do I feel like chucking in my season ticket and my families? Yes I do if I have to put up with that sort of stewarding at........wait for it........Doncaster 'Bloody' Rovers.....not Millwall,Lazio,Leeds........It's the year 2015 for god's sake not 1977.
You have misconstrued me slightly. If you have been an innocent person involved in this then you are as much a victim as Martin. Particlarly as this was near the family section, you would expect that a different approach could have been attempted before eviction.
However from being in the East Stand you will no doubt see the work the club has done to make games more palatable for younger fans.
I took my 4 year old for his first game last year and moved out of my usual South Stand seat and tried the Family Stand and was very happy with what was put on for kids. I've recommended it to loads of people since who have also raved about it (including non Rovers fans).
These incidents happen very scarcely at Rovers (I'd like them never to happen in an ideal world) and we need to give the club time to be looking at all footage and statements and ensuring the right decision is made for those affected.
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The club are responsible for these stewards. My previous post wanted to see how the club dealt with it. Why let the press wild with this before the club have been able to do that? Bad publicity could take a long time to overcome.
We have so many positive things going on at the club at the moment. Let's not spoil it too soon. Give the club a chance. If they fail to deal with it then yes take it to another level.
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RedJ - A very interesting question, and one that has been alluded to already. I sincerely hope the club aren't playing these sorts of games, although I doubt it with Gavin in charge and his established relationship with Martin.
I don't think the problem is with Gavin etc, the problem appears to be down the chain a bit Chief Steward/ matchday control room, they are the ones making these decisions they don't ask Gavins permission first
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If the club are after suggestions I can tell them immediately they should get rid of the bouncer type stewards and use the blueprint that has developed in the South Stand. Even the dress code of stewards seems to have slowly changed over the last 5 years or so to the point that they all dress like bouncers and wear the old arm band I'm a registered bouncer thing.
It's football at the Keepmoat, late-middle-aged men and 13 year old dressers, what are they expecting?
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This is where a good relationship with a local paper would be advantageous.
If the local paper ran a story on it, and the club essentially faced the prospect of receiving bad press which could damage their reputation, they would most likely be quick to want to make amends and get things sorted out.
Whether the local paper would want to do it, given certain differences with the VSC in the past, is another matter though.
I've shared comms with Liam and Paul since then. There is no issue. But that's not the way to resolve this.
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I'd say it's a good way to get a result - a bit of negative publicity (i.e. stewards being threatening in the family section, upsetting kiddies, multiple witnesses, etc) and the club will want it brushed under the carpet and forgotten about as soon as possible to protect their own reputation.
It still all reverts back to egos and a 'because I can' type mentality of some folk though.
That doesn't sound like the view of someone with any regard for the best interests of our football club.
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If the club are after suggestions I can tell them immediately they should get rid of the bouncer type stewards and use the blueprint that has developed in the South Stand. Even the dress code of stewards seems to have slowly changed over the last 5 years or so to the point that they all dress like bouncers and wear the old arm band I'm a registered bouncer thing.
It's football at the Keepmoat, late-middle-aged men and 13 year old dressers, what are they expecting?
Always remind me of a Judas Priest tribute act as they stroll around the perimiter. Shaved head and goatee? Strereotype or what! Completely laughable. But mob handed it doesn't matter what they look like
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Just reading this thread and the accounts of the incident, it really makes my blood boil. If the Neil incident wasn't bad enough, and good enough to identify inappropriate stewarding, then we have this.
Seems someone thinks they call the shots at the stadium and are making decisions from their own rule book. Not for much longer I hope.
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Thanks for your explanation of the way newspaper publicity works Rigo, I so much needed your help with that.
Certainly, from the accounts of those who witnessed it it seems clear that those chosen to represent the club have done the club no favours. As others have said, let's see what the club does about it before thinking about doing something that is to the detriment of everyone with an attachment to Doncaster Rovers which of course would include Martin. And equally would exclude you.
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Matter of interest what side do you "support" these days, Rigo?
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Happy to oblige.
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Although neither incident warrants being kicked out, and certainly not in the manner that was witnessed on both occasions, I do think it's ok to treat each situation on their own merits as they were by different fans in different parts of the ground. Add to the fact how long Martin has been going to the Rovers, how long he has been a season ticker holder and the fact he is 60 (sorry Martin!) I think it's plain to see every part of what happened in his case was OTT. Like I said, I'm not discounting what has happened previously, but I'm not surprised that this incident has seemingly attracted more attention.
Rigo - I don't think it's appropriate to get the local press involved, and like you said they might not even be interested, but if they did mention it online or in the rag the club would be soley responsible for any negative publicity thereafter.
RedJ - A very interesting question, and one that has been alluded to already. I sincerely hope the club aren't playing these sorts of games, although I doubt it with Gavin in charge and his established relationship with Martin.
Rob what is your view on Neils Eviction? serious question. Before ya have a pop I believe Martin was from what I've read n been told unjustly treated
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Stop it guys! All of you. From all the strife last Tuesday we have a one tme opprtunity to restore at least a little respect, generosity of spirit and fellow feeling. Rigo offered a suggestion. It's a perfectly reasonable suggestion. if you think it's not appropriate right now then no problem with you saying so. But the snide remarks that accompanied some of those rejections of the idea are simply pathetic. Grow up for Gods sake.
As for Rigo's idea, this thread is full of comments pointing out that the club has clearly done nothing at all since Neil's ejection. So I suspect waiting around for the club to 'do something' won't show much more of a result this time around. So I'd go to the press. Force their hand. It's pretty damn newsworthy stuff.
BobG
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Blimey this has opened a can of worms hasn't it?
As with all incidents of this nature I am sure that it will reviewed within the club from the CCTV footage and discussed appropriately.
I'm not sure how people can question the integrity of some of the senior officials at the club on this particular matter to be fair nor also how they can be held personally responsible. They've appointed security/stewards etc to do that particular job to the best of their ability - nothing more or less!
The negativity towards some of the club officials on this thread is somewhat overboard don't you all think? Especially as there are so many positive things happening in and around the club at the moment.
Do people really believe that Club Officials tactically deploy stewards to kick people out because they don't like what they have to say? I bet they wish they really had that much time on their hands! LOL!
Contrary to some reports SM has received lots of positive support from some of these people inside the club and that the relationship he was with specific individuals will ensure a positive outcome to this whole incident.
There has been a meeting arranged with the club and SM next week to the best of my knowledge and I'm sure that through sensible dialogue and cctv scrutiny everyone will be aiming to clear things up properly one way or another.
The club, stewards and SM between them (as was the case with the Neil and Black Bank incident - which nobody can dispute finished with a positive outcome as the success of subsequent growth of the BB has shown- plus the positives gleaned from that awful West Stand incident also highlight) will sort this out between themselves and will (if the need arises) explain any actions and repercussions in the future should that be deemed the best course of action.
Let SM and the club resolve this properly before any of the rest of us chuck in loads of undue emotional reactions - leave them to it and see what any outcome(s) is (are.)
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Is this steward the same bloke that runs the Car Boot SPG ?
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BobG, you seem more interested in protecting Rigos feelings than giving the club and Martin time to sort things out before running to the press, why's that?
I'm sure Rigo is a big lad and doesn't need your protection.
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Why would I want to protect Rigo? What a bizarre conclusion to jump to. You must be one of those who can't see an opinion opposed to his own without making snide remarks about it.
Discussion involves different points of view. I gave a reason for mine. What's the reason for your contribution?
BobG
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Been looking back... since the opening of the KM there's been more ejected from the home end than the away end
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But the snide remarks that accompanied some of those rejections of the idea are simply pathetic.
Your words. Personally I'd say that's the snidest remark in here. Opinions, eh?
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Been looking back... since the opening of the KM there's been more ejected from the home end than the away end
Easy target. Look at how Scunny (Scunny!) took the piss last season.
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It should have been sorted by now its as simple as that,
then the bulk of all this wouldn't be happening
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It's hard to believe that's for sure. But then Andy Liney being barred from Bradford was bizarre as well.
BobG
Wasn't it Huddersfield Bob?
Yes it was Huddersfield.
Bradford (city) was where he danced???????with some very good looking majorettes and seemed to have a whale of a time.
Regards
Ray
Ray
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It should have been sorted by now its as simple as that,
then the bulk of all this wouldn't be happening
Somehow I don't think Martin will be settling for a half arsed apology from the club so until something substantial happens it's all conjecture on our part.
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It should have been sorted by now its as simple as that,
then the bulk of all this wouldn't be happening
Somehow I don't think Martin will be settling for a half arsed apology from the club so until something substantial happens it's all conjecture on our part.
I hope he isn't judging by what I've read on here!!
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It should have been sorted by now its as simple as that,
then the bulk of all this wouldn't be happening
Somehow I don't think Martin will be settling for a half arsed apology from the club so until something substantial happens it's all conjecture on our part.
I would think the position Martin holds nationally will be requiring a complete and official apology.
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We'll have to see what he demands / the club offers. Certainly interesting times ahead but I'd like to echo Al and Wes above, now isn't the time for attacks on the club and it's personnel.
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Oh well I'm known to some perhaps I'm next :( cos I do gob off occasionally
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There is something sick at Doncaster Rovers.
I don't know the motives, I don't understand the politics.
I did everything i could to support my club in the dark days. Bought all the tat from the shop, sponsored match ball, sponsored kit. Every little helps eh?
Now Ive given up my season ticket, despair at the treatment of respected (nationally) individuals and ashamed to be associated in any way with doncaster rovers.
Time for change.
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.
Time for change.
What changes do you suggest?
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A good question DRFC my new forum buddy.
Lets start with communication from the club.
I tried to renew my season ticket in the SW corner. It was unavailable. No reason. No explanation. ST holder since the conference days and club sponsor in minor ways, thought I might have deserved slightly better.
Taken my bat and ball home. But i'm a fan at heart so turned up to the FA cup game. pay on the day. "Oh no, you need to queue at the ticket office" Missed the first goal as a result.
Treatment of a well respected DRFC fan, recognised not just locally but nationally? And you have the temerity to ask what needs to change?
The experience of myself and other fans will soon have us likened to other eras or less respected c,lubs if this continues.
What needs to change? you ask..... respect and customer care.
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Which cup game did you turn up for?
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The FA cup.
The ticket office made valiant attempts to issue tickets to juniors and after KO to adults all turned away from the pay on the day turnstile.
If you are in any way connected with the club, N486 and my initials/username will tally.
A sad state of affairs.
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Thank you DVR. A really frightening experiment that. It amply (!!!) demonstrated mans inhumanity to man and explained why there are people like those we are discussing in this thread. We seem to have another example before us at the KM these days.....
BobG
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I'm in no way employed by the club.
I'll try and reply to your points as best as I can:
Your seat wouldn't be available, the South Stand is fully unreserved and anyway a large chunk of the SW corner is now taken up with the big screen and segregation netting between the South and West stands. The club have admitted they didn't handle the change to unreserved seating especially well and apologised to the effected fans, offering them seats elsewhere in the ground if they wanted the convenience of a guaranteed seat.
The treatment of those ejected recently has been appalling but is that really a reason to abandon the club that you love, especially as it hasnt directly impacted you? I'm sure that this issue is now in very capable hands and we'll see an improvement in what in reality is a tiny, tiny part of the match day experience.
Obviously I've no idea what the issue was with your ticket problem as I'm not privy to all the information but in my experience Ryan Murrant has been great at dealing with issues along those lines. Would an apology from the club change your feelings on returning?
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You're not related to Lifelong are you DRFC? I'm not trying to be sarky or owt but your post reminds me of him.
BobG
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You're not related to Lifelong are you DRFC? I'm not trying to be sarky or owt but your post reminds me of him.
BobG
Hmm they might just be on the same wavelength Bob. What makes you think that ? ;)
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I'm in no way employed by the club.
I'll try and reply to your points as best as I can:
Your seat wouldn't be available, the South Stand is fully unreserved and anyway a large chunk of the SW corner is now taken up with the big screen and segregation netting between the South and West stands. The club have admitted they didn't handle the change to unreserved seating especially well and apologised to the effected fans, offering them seats elsewhere in the ground if they wanted the convenience of a guaranteed seat.
The treatment of those ejected recently has been appalling but is that really a reason to abandon the club that you love, especially as it hasnt directly impacted you? I'm sure that this issue is now in very capable hands and we'll see an improvement in what in reality is a tiny, tiny part of the match day experience.
Obviously I've no idea what the issue was with your ticket problem as I'm not privy to all the information but in my experience Ryan Murrant has been great at dealing with issues along those lines. Would an apology from the club change your feelings on returning?
Now they're calling us camp!
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I'm in no way employed by the club.
I'll try and reply to your points as best as I can:
Your seat wouldn't be available, the South Stand is fully unreserved and anyway a large chunk of the SW corner is now taken up with the big screen and segregation netting between the South and West stands. The club have admitted they didn't handle the change to unreserved seating especially well and apologised to the effected fans, offering them seats elsewhere in the ground if they wanted the convenience of a guaranteed seat.
The treatment of those ejected recently has been appalling but is that really a reason to abandon the club that you love, especially as it hasnt directly impacted you? I'm sure that this issue is now in very capable hands and we'll see an improvement in what in reality is a tiny, tiny part of the match day experience.
Obviously I've no idea what the issue was with your ticket problem as I'm not privy to all the information but in my experience Ryan Murrant has been great at dealing with issues along those lines. Would an apology from the club change your feelings on returning?
Eventually after a lot of complaints initially there was nothing from the club, I believe the people affected by the big screen were basically kicked out to somewhere else with no explanation, no doubt someone will correct this bit if need be
To an extent its irrelevant whether it directly impacted you or not the way it appears to have been handled (and other incidents) sets the precedence next week it could be you receiving the same sort of treatment it needs sorting.
They ran out of adult tickets at the pay on the day turnstiles so instead of getting more to the turnstiles they decided to send everybody to the ticket office to buy tickets there, it was covered on here at the time
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Now they're calling us camp!
If the cap fits, darling. ;)
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Bob, Steve, I'm not Dave Parker. I wouldn't wipe my arse on the Sun for a start.
If you want to find out who I am (so you can idly threaten to expose what I post here under a pseudonym to my employers, like happened to Mad Mick) why don't we play a game of Guess Who?
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No.
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Are you Bald?
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No. (Perhaps thinning a little)
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You're not related to Lifelong are you DRFC? I'm not trying to be sarky or owt but your post reminds me of him.
BobG
Lifelong is usually having a dig at the club or the owners, though.
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No. You've had enough turns now, Tony. Let the other children have a go.
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All, can we leave the game of "Guess Who" out of it please and stick on topic. Thanks.
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Can I reiterate that sm, the club and (I think) the stewards' rep/matchday security team are meeting next week to discuss this and suggest we leave this one to them to sort?
There's no need for further conjecture on the matter till it's resolved by those involved! We've got a game to win today lol!
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I reckon the thread should be locked until we hear the "facts! from the parties concerned
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Have there been any updates on this that I've missed, or has nothing further come to light with this?
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Nothing yet as far as I know but it's a week or so since I spoke to sm!
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Hope that this can be resolved quickly and quietly
SM has done sterling work for VSC and the club
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I do believe it's the wording of the, erm' apology 🤔
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Statement now on the Official Site.
http://mobile.doncasterroversfc.co.uk/news/article/rovers-to-talk-to-fsf-2839459.aspx
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And on here (http://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?page=219) too.
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I'm sure Martin has already seen the club statement prior to it's release..Personally i would have been looking for a apology in that statement which isn't there..But knowing Martin his priority will be to make sure this cant happen to anybody else and will want to concentrate on working with the club with his role in the FSF to make sure that happens rather than personal gratification....
It's an area that has been getting worse and worse in certain areas of the ground and people simply will not attend especially with kids if they think they can be subjected to treatment like that....So hopefully good things will come out of it....
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Wingco, according to the report on the VSC site (Rob's link) the club has apologised to Martin directly.
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Yes I saw that but only a few will read and recognise that...the majority of fans wont see the vsc post...Like I said sometimes it takes the better man to let it lye and work towards the greater good..The official statement doesn't do it for me but as long as Martins happy with it,thats all that matters...
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Having followed the various posts on this incident all I can say is that I am pleased it happened to someone in SM's position.
Had it been anyone else then no doubt nothing would have come of it.
By picking on the wrong person hopefully we might now get the best stewarding in the league.
Well done to all concerned (excluding the guilty party of course)
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Yep.
I have read it,...
COVER UP. WRITTEN OFF THE PERSON WHO CAUSED IT, THE HEAD STEWARD??? OTHER ISSUES??
GIVE UP drfc.
YES little drfc
Mick Ball
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Yes I saw that but only a few will read and recognise that...the majority of fans wont see the vsc post...Like I said sometimes it takes the better man to let it lye and work towards the greater good..The official statement doesn't do it for me but as long as Martins happy with it,thats all that matters...
Will the majority of fans have known there was an issue in the first place.
Martin was wronged, and he got an apology. The details of which can stay between him and the club - as far as I am concerned.
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Yep.
I have read it,...
COVER UP. WRITTEN OFF THE PERSON WHO CAUSED IT, THE HEAD STEWARD??? OTHER ISSUES??
GIVE UP drfc.
YES little drfc
Mick Ball
Knowing Martin I doubt he will have let them get away with that Bally...Publically he will have let them get away with just issuing whats obviously a nice political soundbite on the website...but they will have to be good for there word of that I have no doubt...
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I'm of the opinion the club statement falls well short of any apology, and is basically a cop out
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The apology was received by Martin, Filo, and that is reflected in our statement. Martin has accepted the apology in good faith and with good grace.
As the both the VSC and club statements says there is the opportunity for a silver lining here with the club and the FSF working together to make sure that Doncaster Rovers stewards are recognised as the best in the country.
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Indeed the VSC version states the club apologised to Martin but as others have said, the version on Rovers Official site should also make clear the club has apologised. Not just for Martin's benefit but also so all other fans can see the club aren't too big to apologise.
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The apology was received by Martin, Filo, and that is reflected in our statement. Martin has accepted the apology in good faith and with good grace.
As the both the VSC and club statements says there is the opportunity for a silver lining here with the club and the FSF working together to make sure that Doncaster Rovers stewards are recognised as the best in the country.
I accept that Martin is happy with it, but the clubs line on the official site, makes no mention of an apology and appears to dismiss any wrong doing, perhaps they could be a bit more humble in these circumstances, in my opinion the clubs statement looks like it's been made through gritted teeth
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Like i said..if it would have been anybody else i would class that statement as unacceptable...But Martin will make sure that the club sticks to its pledges on this issue...Which is the most important part of it...
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Tale of two statements for me. I agree with the majority on here that the club statement is rubbish. They removed Martin publically so why wouldn't they be apologising for it publically? As stated it looks like it has been made begrudgingly.
On the other hand of that the VSC statement genuinely fills me with hope that these stewarding issues will be properly dealt with to deliver a better service for DRFC.
Good result for every supporter who attends home games.
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Must say that statement leaves me disappointed in the club, it reads like it was wrung from them and would not have been sufficient to placate me. Martin takes all of the moral high ground as a result of it. Well done sir.
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id say that 50% of people at that match dont even know what went off so it covers what it needs to.
As we know more then we can say its a cop out etc but the vsc statement says what should have been said if everyone knew what happened
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Disappointingly with the club statement, it doesn't actually mention that it was Martin that was removed from the ground, just that they had a meeting with him and implying that he was from FSF and not the fan removed. Or am i missing something?
COYR
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Disappointingly with the club statement, it doesn't actually mention that it was Martin that was removed from the ground, just that they had a meeting with him and implying that he was from FSF and not the fan removed. Or am i missing something?
COYR
No you are not missing anything, all it needed was "a personal apology has been given to the fan ejected that he is happy with and we hope to move forward with the FSF"
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I've noticed Martin hasn't posted on here since the incident. I hope it hasn't left him disillusioned and feeling he doesn't want to contribute his time and effort to the same extent as before all this happened.
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Must make you wonder why the f**k you bother though, I'd imagine.
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Yes Mate, I agree. It must have made him think of doing an 'Andy Liney' and packing it all in.
I wouldn't blame him either. Just hope that he hasn't.
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Maybe this was just the high profile cock up needed to enforce a rethink on certain stewarding issues.
Just as long as the culprit isn't just moved to another stand and carries on
acting in the same manner.
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I'm sure some on the board of the vsc and drsg know the identity of the steward or stewards and will hopefully be keeping an eye out
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Shouldn't the guilty steward(s) be relieved of their duties?
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A statement from the club...
The Club can confirm that, after an incident during the Rovers v Chesterfield game (Tuesday 24th November), a meeting has taken place between the Safety Officer and Martin O’Hara to identify ways of which the club can further its commitment to improving how we operate on match days. Future learning and development opportunities were identified.
Talks are to take place with representatives of the Football Supporters Federation as regards the club piloting training initiatives that will allow it to offer the very best in customer care and to further develop into a model club leading the way in how we steward football matches.
The Club would like to thank Martin for his continued assistance in this and other club initiatives.
Read more at http://www.doncasterroversfc.co.uk/news/article/rovers-to-talk-to-fsf-2839459.aspx#JHoyGjg62QqygVgZ.99
Or to translate.........
Oooops! We made a mess of that didn't we? Apologies but our stewards are badly trained and don't know the rules and regulations regarding football stadia. What you did wasn't a 'Criminal Offence' as claimed by our steward but we don't know the rules and we and our stewards apply our own interpretation and we have no control over the stewards when they do. Please can you help us Martin? Can the FSF come and put our house in order? Can they come and train our stewards?
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les.
I agree totally, they were out of order in West Stand but got away with a cover up or a F. U Supporters. Well Martin stood up to them and got singled out for it. Yep F.U Supporters but we make us look good.
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Just what do the club think they are doing? Again digging their heads in the sand in the hope we won't realise that they have got it wrong. These are clearly issues that should be paramount in the stewards training! Brushing it under the carpet!! Not good enough im afraid!! Come on DRFC give Martin the apology he so rightly deserves. Anyone else agree with me?
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Shouldn't the guilty steward(s) be relieved of their duties?
yes he should.
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"..further it's commitment to improving how we operate on match days.."
"..piloting training initiatives that will allow it to offer the very best in customer care.."!!
Where's the apology for an incident that was obviously orchestrated by match officials operating under 'guidance' from someone 'inside the club', ending up by ejecting a diehard supporter from the ground & in doing so, upset a family group caught up in the middle of what was a nasty, abusive, violent (when witnessed by a small child) fracas.
If such an incident had happened near me, hand on heart, I'd post my season ticket back to the club until this 'Head Steward' was sent packing back to his nightclub door.
Martin, you have a far, far longer fuse than me.
Shame on you Doncaster Rovers for putting out such a pathetic piece of blather.
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A statement from the club...
The Club can confirm that, after an incident during the Rovers v Chesterfield game (Tuesday 24th November), a meeting has taken place between the Safety Officer and Martin O’Hara to identify ways of which the club can further its commitment to improving how we operate on match days. Future learning and development opportunities were identified.
Talks are to take place with representatives of the Football Supporters Federation as regards the club piloting training initiatives that will allow it to offer the very best in customer care and to further develop into a model club leading the way in how we steward football matches.
The Club would like to thank Martin for his continued assistance in this and other club initiatives.
Read more at http://www.doncasterroversfc.co.uk/news/article/rovers-to-talk-to-fsf-2839459.aspx#JHoyGjg62QqygVgZ.99
Or to translate.........
Oooops! We made a mess of that didn't we? Apologies but our stewards are badly trained and don't know the rules and regulations regarding football stadia. What you did wasn't a 'Criminal Offence' as claimed by our steward but we don't know the rules and we and our stewards apply our own interpretation and we have no control over the stewards when they do. Please can you help us Martin? Can the FSF come and put our house in order? Can they come and train our stewards?
Apart from the "apologies " part, yes.
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"..further it's commitment to improving how we operate on match days.."
"..piloting training initiatives that will allow it to offer the very best in customer care.."!!
Where's the apology for an incident that was obviously orchestrated by match officials operating under 'guidance' from someone 'inside the club', ending up by ejecting a diehard supporter from the ground & in doing so, upset a family group caught up in the middle of what was a nasty, abusive, violent (when witnessed by a small child) fracas.
If such an incident had happened near me, hand on heart, I'd post my season ticket back to the club until this 'Head Steward' was sent packing back to his nightclub door.
Martin, you have a far, far longer fuse than me.
Shame on you Doncaster Rovers for putting out such a pathetic piece of blather.
Honestly 'Colin C No3' I'm still seething over the incident. The Chief Steward was/is a complete knob and doesn't belong inside our stadium where he can display his 'bouncer' attributes in front of my kids.
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Shouldn't the guilty steward(s) be relieved of their duties?
Only if he was acting without any guidance which I'd find very unlikely. Surely in any kind of situation where you can see it getting fraught, you'd report to the control room first and foremost to ensure the incident is being recorded and to take advice on how to handle it?
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Just what do the club think they are doing? Again digging their heads in the sand in the hope we won't realise that they have got it wrong. These are clearly issues that should be paramount in the stewards training! Brushing it under the carpet!! Not good enough im afraid!! Come on DRFC give Martin the apology he so rightly deserves. Anyone else agree with me?
Read the statement on the VSC website. Martin has had an apology. Whether that should be more public is a matter of opinion..
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Just what do the club think they are doing? Again digging their heads in the sand in the hope we won't realise that they have got it wrong. These are clearly issues that should be paramount in the stewards training! Brushing it under the carpet!! Not good enough im afraid!! Come on DRFC give Martin the apology he so rightly deserves. Anyone else agree with me?
Read the statement on the VSC website. Martin has had an apology. Whether that should be more public is a matter of opinion..
The icident played out in public, the apology should made in public in my opinion, and that goes to the two recent incidents. The club statement looks like it was begrudgingly put out
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Just what do the club think they are doing? Again digging their heads in the sand in the hope we won't realise that they have got it wrong. These are clearly issues that should be paramount in the stewards training! Brushing it under the carpet!! Not good enough im afraid!! Come on DRFC give Martin the apology he so rightly deserves. Anyone else agree with me?
Read the statement on the VSC website. Martin has had an apology. Whether that should be more public is a matter of opinion..
Not good enough for me IDM...that's NOT a apology but if Martins happy that's what matters.....However I would have thought it might have twigged to one or two in the boardroom that we are not happy with this incident but after that standard statement similar to the ones that they put out about the catering which are never kept,obviously not....!!!
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Just what do the club think they are doing? Again digging their heads in the sand in the hope we won't realise that they have got it wrong. These are clearly issues that should be paramount in the stewards training! Brushing it under the carpet!! Not good enough im afraid!! Come on DRFC give Martin the apology he so rightly deserves. Anyone else agree with me?
Read the statement on the VSC website. Martin has had an apology. Whether that should be more public is a matter of opinion..
IDM Having read the statement put out by the club numerous times at no point do I see the words, "Apology" or "Sorry" Could you please direct me to the words or indeed the sentence that your reading as an apology?
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Just what do the club think they are doing? Again digging their heads in the sand in the hope we won't realise that they have got it wrong. These are clearly issues that should be paramount in the stewards training! Brushing it under the carpet!! Not good enough im afraid!! Come on DRFC give Martin the apology he so rightly deserves. Anyone else agree with me?
Read the statement on the VSC website. Martin has had an apology. Whether that should be more public is a matter of opinion..
IDM Having read the statement put out by the club numerous times at point do I see the words, "Apology" or "Sorry" Could you please direct me to the words or indeed the sentence that your reading as an apology?
http://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php (http://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php)
"The trust is delighted to be able to inform supporters that the club have apologised to Martin for this action, having conducted an investigation and found that he did nothing to warrant this outcome. Both the trust and Martin as an individual would like to thank the club for reaching the correct decision."
OK this does not contain the wording of the apology, more stating that it has happened. IMHO the person wronged is Martin, so the apology is personal to him?
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Filo, Wingco, I was referring to the VSC statement, not the club's statement, just to make myself clear.
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I just don't get your point IDM..Thats a statement put out by the VSC and nothing whatsoever to do with the club it's the clubs OFFICIAL statement that is nothing more than the standard political sound bite drivel that is designed to do nothing more than keep the plebs quiet that we have issues with....
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My point is simple - Martin was wronged, and has received an apology, as reported by the VSC.
Whether the club's apology statement should be more public is a matter (it seems) for debate. That's fair enough, but my point still stands.
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So it appears that the VSC have inform people of the clubs apology because the club cannot bring themselves to do it
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So it appears that the VSC have inform people of the clubs apology because the club cannot bring themselves to do it
That's not my point. Maybe Martin was content with a private apology - I am guessing at that, you'd have to ask him!
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So it appears that the VSC have inform people of the clubs apology because the club cannot bring themselves to do it
That's not my point. Maybe Martin was content with a private apology - I am guessing at that, you'd have to ask him!
You wouldn't then put it out via the VSC statement that they've apologised though would you? Just that a satisfactory outcome had been achieved and a wish to move forward.
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I can't speak for the way the club nor the VSC put out statements. My views on this thread are simply to point out that an apology has been made, as some posters (throughout the thread) seemed to think it had not been done.
Whether this goes far enough, or is appropriate, is a different issue.
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I can't speak for the way the club nor the VSC put out statements. My views on this thread are simply to point out that an apology has been made, as some posters (throughout the thread) seemed to think it had not been done.
Whether this goes far enough, or is appropriate, is a different issue.
I see it totally differently.
The club has made a private apology to MH (and the VSC?)
As for public apologies the club has totally ducked the issue of what happened. How do the club know if any of those present in the East Stand who witnessed what happened and were as a result upset or had family members upset are VSC members?
On the basis that some may not be then the club (in my opinion) has acted badly.
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Corporate bullshit aside, and assuming SM is content with the response of DRFC to himself personally, there are still 1 or 2 questions not answered by the club.
Did a steward act inappropriately,
Did he exceed his legal powers,
Who is responsible for oversight of the stewarding team,
What guidance/protocols are in use to govern stewarding practice,
Where are these published for supporters to read and understand,
Have any disciplinary measures been taken for breach of standards,
What will DRFC do to enforce good practice going forward,
What apologies have been given to others affected by the incident.
These seem to me a list of minimum requirements for transparency.
Bland assurances that everything will be sorted are usually and indicator that they wish it would go away, and in 2 weeks it will all be forgotten. Not always though, so this might be different.
Deal with it and tell the truth Rovers! You will feel a lot better afterwards.
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Corporate bullshit aside, and assuming SM is content with the response of DRFC to himself personally, there are still 1 or 2 questions not answered by the club.
Did a steward act inappropriately,
Did he exceed his legal powers,
Who is responsible for oversight of the stewarding team,
What guidance/protocols are in use to govern stewarding practice,
Where are these published for supporters to read and understand,
Have any disciplinary measures been taken for breach of standards,
What will DRFC do to enforce good practice going forward,
What apologies have been given to others affected by the incident.
These seem to me a list of minimum requirements for transparency.
Bland assurances that everything will be sorted are usually and indicator that they wish it would go away, and in 2 weeks it will all be forgotten. Not always though, so this might be different.
Deal with it and tell the truth Rovers! You will feel a lot better afterwards.
I think the main thing we've learned from all this is that albie can't count. ;)
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He does do good questions though :)
All very relevant and all very ignored.
BobG
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If the news coming out of America is true, I reckon Silent Majority got exactly what he deserved
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5647/21436971642_2e991a57fc_b.jpg)
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I stood with a trump once.
Followed through. Messy.
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I stood with a trump once.
Followed through. Messy.
I'm not sure what turns my stomach more. Donald Trump or the image you've just given me!
Having heard some of Trump's supporters they don't seem very silent. Let's hope they are not the majority!
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Where does Trump's comb over start? I hope the clue's not in the name!
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Hi,
I think it’s about time that I shone a little light into the corners here and answered some of the questions that a few posters have quite rightly asked.
Firstly let me say that I decided not to post while the club were investigating the issue surrounding my ejection and that my failure to post since the statements were issued is just simply a matter of timing; timing which just happened to coincide with a period of being away on business, and for no other reason at all.
Inside the FSF we always talk of a begrudging ‘expect and accept’ culture with football supporters. In other words most supporters expect to be treated in a certain way and accept that the world will treat them in a certain fashion because of the sport they follow. It’s quite obvious with things like ticket prices, all seater stadia, and laws that exist purely to deal with football supporters that other sections of society would never accept. It’s prevalent in areas where football supporters are deemed to be a potential social disorder problem despite statistics showing that 99% of football supporters are perfectly normal law abiding citizens. Glastonbury as a music festival has far more arrests per capita than any football match played out in the British Isles and yet music festivals are not legislated in the same way. On that very subject, and a report on how low football arrest figures have reached, then this article by my colleague Amanda Jacks makes interesting reading;
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/nov/26/football-arrests-home-office-figures
And it was against this background that my ejection from the Keepmoat was almost inevitable, because I don’t ‘expect and accept’. Enough people have given the details of my ejection that further details don’t really add to the story. I think it’s also fair to say, and I hope this is not taken in the wrong way, but the very fact it was me in the limelight has made this easier to deal with than would normally be the case. I have had numerous years of experience in dealing with issues like this and having one to deal with on a first hand basis made it so much easier. However to ensure that I wasn’t becoming too personal with this particular case I did refer back to my colleagues in the FSF as often as I could.
So, how did things proceed? Well it was accepted pretty much straight away that I didn’t really have a case to answer, I had my season ticket back and apologies were issued directly to me over a cup of coffee and a very long discussion on stewarding standards and issues. Again the view of the FSF is that stewards play a vital if difficult role in the game of football. Most are on zero hour contracts and are paid the minimum wage. Training can be very poor and recruiting is a difficult and painstaking process. But they are there for our safety, that’s their primary role, and was ably demonstrated in Paris recently when potential bombers were turned away from the Stade de France. History shows that we do need them, Bradford and Hillsborough are two cases in point, but we need them carrying out their duties as professionally as we can.
It’s not for me to outline here what steps the club will be taking with regard to individual stewards. However it would be remiss of me not to ask the club to take action in rectifying the situation so that it doesn’t happen again. And that’s essentially what we discussed. I realise that most people didn’t like the club statement, but I doubt very much if any football club has ever issued a statement that actually reveals as much as that one does! Not only does it say, in the nicest possible way, that they screwed up but that they will take this opportunity to start again. Not only does it commit to changing the training routine, but it commits to doing it in a completely different manner in the very near future. The FSF and I will be taking a very active role in addressing these issues and we already have meetings scheduled in the next few weeks so that we can begin this process. As far as we can see this is a fantastic opportunity for us, never before has a football club asked us to play such an in depth role as this. We’ve talked to, and advised clubs, at all levels on individual issues but hopefully this breaks new ground and a long standing ambition of ours will see the light of day.
To finish I would like to make two points. I never really thought of a public apology that much. I can see the point that a lot of people have made on here and I accept that, so maybe next time I would do it differently! However what was uppermost in my mind all the time was that this was an opportunity to change the stewarding culture at our club, and you never know where that could lead to. Hopefully other clubs will follow suit and adopt what we hope is a successful strategy. We will be keeping everyone informed and within reason I expect the club to let me give out details from time to time. I think that’s a fair request and one that should ensure that promises are kept. Our CEO has been excellent throughout these last two weeks and has been very supportive. Gavin has been in touch on an almost daily basis and has ensured that we would always have a positive outcome.
Finally, I would like to say that I have been blown away with the amount of support I’ve received from individuals on here. I’ve had tremendous support from my brother who has been ever present at football matches with me over the last fifty years, and friends and colleagues have contacted me in various ways to offer support. Thanks to all of you. But to those ‘trolls’ who thought it wise to contact the club and express their opinion of me in a negative way, shame on you!! Fortunately the club didn’t pay any attention to them!
And on that note I should end the longest post I’ve ever made on this forum! Thanks to everyone!
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A great post SM and if it achieves those things it may turn out to be a blessing in disguise for the future and maybe even be used as a blueprint elsewhere which may benefit supporters everywhere...The only thing I would question is back to the statement..Yes I appreciate that they are not likely to grovel for forgiveness and nor should they,like in all aspects of life mistakes are made and they certainly shouldn't disclose any internal action taken...However for my money it certainly didn't go far enough in my eyes as regards any public apology that was warranted....Yes you may have had one from Gavin over a coffee but to the rest of the supporter base who are now wondering wether they are able to take there kids to a Donny match without being subjected to the scenes that played out (as some were upset by this) that statement doesn't assure anybody that Rovers can just admit when they got it wrong....This is a family club with a community spirit nor a corporate conglomerate....The statements they put out wether this or the catering are more in tune to the house of commons political soundbites than a local community club....After all the slogan is "In Rovers we trust"...Something they really need to address.....
As for the trolls who rang the club words simply fail me they really do,beyond pathetic mate....
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:that:
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A great post SM and if it achieves those things it may turn out to be a blessing in disguise for the future and maybe even be used as a blueprint elsewhere which may benefit supporters everywhere...The only thing I would question is back to the statement..Yes I appreciate that they are not likely to grovel for forgiveness and nor should they,like in all aspects of life mistakes are made and they certainly shouldn't disclose any internal action taken...However for my money it certainly didn't go far enough in my eyes as regards any public apology that was warranted....Yes you may have had one from Gavin over a coffee but to the rest of the supporter base who are now wondering wether they are able to take there kids to a Donny match without being subjected to the scenes that played out (as some were upset by this) that statement doesn't assure anybody that Rovers can just admit when they got it wrong....This is a family club with a community spirit nor a corporate conglomerate....The statements they put out wether this or the catering are more in tune to the house of commons political soundbites than a local community club....After all the slogan is "In Rovers we trust"...Something they really need to address.....
As for the trolls who rang the club words simply fail me they really do,beyond pathetic mate....
I agree with all of that.
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You know what chaps? I think we don't know how lucky we are to have Martin at the helm of the VSC.
It would have been so, so easy for an incident like this to have been handled in so many different, and equally wrong, ways. I'm not at all sure I would have handled it well. But Martin did. I think that takes a man of rare qualities. I think we could acknowledge it a tad more than we usually do!
Cheers
BobG
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But to those ‘trolls’ who thought it wise to contact the club and express their opinion of me in a negative way, shame on you!!
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The above comments sicken me but that's what we all have to deal with now 'keyboard warriors'.You only have to look back to see the stick Martin has taken in the past on this forum. I would not be surprised if it is the same group trying to make the situation worse for Martin.
I have talked to Martin in the past about this type of problem that he has had to deal with, even in his private life, and it is horrific.
All I can say is "Martin don't let the B****** get you down"
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I wonder if Martin was set up by someone with a grudge against him.
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I would not be surprised if it is the same group trying to make the situation worse for Martin.
What group would that be?
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Actually, how does Martin know that people have contacted the club? Surely the club should treat any contact in confidence, regardless of it being positive or negative about the ejection?
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The club might have asked Martin to comment on allegations made by certain people. The confidentiality would only be breached if the details of these people were passed on to Martin or others surely.
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What this incident has actually done, I hope, is show all supporters that Martin is in their corner. It would have been very easy for him to take this very personally. He hasn't. He looked at it as an opportunity to make positive change to help all fans avoid finding themselves in a similar position in the future through helping the club's stewards improve.
If people want to write to the club bemoaning him personally, then that says more about them than him.
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Actually, how does Martin know that people have contacted the club? Surely the club should treat any contact in confidence, regardless of it being positive or negative about the ejection?
JEEZ!!
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Actually, how does Martin know that people have contacted the club? Surely the club should treat any contact in confidence, regardless of it being positive or negative about the ejection?
You're joking, right?
I think you forgot to add the 'wink' emoticon
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I would not be surprised if it is the same group trying to make the situation worse for Martin.
What group would that be?
The group that has ridiculed Martins comments on this forum!! not too difficult to work out is it?
I think you will agree that Martin always puts them in their place, with respect, just like the way he has done on this occasion.
Don't you agree DRFC?
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I'm intrigued, Alick. Who exactly are you referring to?
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Martin has actually received messages of support from all sections of Rovers supporters, including the Supporters Club and DRSG. Pointing the finger at groups here is not at all helpful or accurate.
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Hat's off to you Martin for being able to see the 'longer picture' throughout & not react in a knee jerk way.
Your action has enabled supporters to get their 'feet under the table' on an fundamentally important issue on stewarding. As you say their "fundamental duty is our safety", if nothing else, the 'incident' you & others had to endure on the day & your subsequent handling of the situation has 'forced' the club in to revaluating the role of the club's stewarding & given 'us' a voice on how that is developed.
I'm glad that your shoulders are broad enough to recognise that the amoeba who have used all this to attack you personally with mindless slurs are to be treated with the contempt they deserve.
Long may your good work continue.
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Yes I agree Rob..This is a football supporter issue regardless of groups and I would just be as dissapointed about it whoever it happened too....It's the club I'm disappointed at most...We can have all the fan engagement meetings we want but unless the club is prepared to treat fans with respect wether on the terraces or in public statements then promises mean little...
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Very proud of your reaction Martin. You have always been a man to stand your ground for what is right not only for yourself but for many, many others even if it has caused you far, far more trouble than what it's worth.
Unfortunately a few individuals within our supporter base don't seem to have the intelligence to see what immense good work you do.
I was once close by Martin when he was verbally attacked by one of our supporters when he only asked quite politely why this person was posting untruths on a certain website about him. Martin remained polite and calm during the very personal abuse. The supporter in question didn't appear the 'full shilling'. My pal who is a chief nurse at a secure hospital said that he detains blokes like that on a daily basis. 😏
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Yes I agree Rob..This is a football supporter issue regardless of groups and I would just be as dissapointed about it whoever it happened too....It's the club I'm disappointed at most...We can have all the fan engagement meetings we want but unless the club is prepared to treat fans with respect wether on the terraces or in public statements then promises mean little...
I couldn't agree more. I'm still disappointed in the club
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It's disappointing that it happened but the club have engaged with the FSF to a greater level than any club has ever done on stewarding so let's give them the chance to make a bad ting good, iree.
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I would not be surprised if it is the same group trying to make the situation worse for Martin.
What group would that be?
The group that has ridiculed Martins comments on this forum!! not too difficult to work out is it?
I think you will agree that Martin always puts them in their place, with respect, just like the way he has done on this occasion.
Don't you agree DRFC?
I think you misunderstand me DRFC?
Let me give the group a title "The trolls" just like Martin did in his comments.
Now the trolls may well be connected! or they may not be connected but what they have in common is that they resent the good work that Martin does for the club/ FSF and tried to hit him when they thought he was down. They seem to have got that wrong.
I am pleased that Martin has got the support from everyone with the exception of the "Trolls"
Don't you agree DRFC.
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Actually, how does Martin know that people have contacted the club? Surely the club should treat any contact in confidence, regardless of it being positive or negative about the ejection?
Why don't you ask Martin directly?
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Or perhaps accuse Martin of being a liar to his face?
But then you'd need b**ls & a brain.......silly me.
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Where's all this abuse come from? My concern is the club potentially giving out a third persons details, not over Martins unjustified ejection which has now been resolved.
Some of you need a knicker change.
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No abuse from me. The club needn't have identified individuals by name at all. They could say they had received negative messages without naming names?
As I said, ask Martin directly if it concerns you so much.
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I'm referring to Colin C.
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Where's all this abuse come from? My concern is the club potentially giving out a third persons details, not over Martins unjustified ejection which has now been resolved.
Some of you need a knicker change.
Someone has made comments/claims about Martin to the club, why would you not expect them to put these to him? And where is there any indication that the club has given any personal information out?
It is interesting that you have plenty of comment and questioning over the club in this, but nothing whatsoever about the person(s) who have 'contact(ed) the club and express(ed) their opinion of (Martin) in a negative way', when presumably they were nothing whatsoever to do with the actual event (who would have been spoken to in person). So here's you chance, what do you think of the people who did that DRFC?
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I didn't witness the event in person but it's a well known phenomenon that of 10 people witnessing an incident there'll be 10 different versions of events. Perhaps this person genuinely thought Martin was at fault?
So, if this individual(s?) reported what they saw without bias then I don't see an issue however if they intentionally misrepresented this situation to get one over on Martin that's reprehensible.
What I would take issue with is if the club saw fit to release that individuals details to a third person, in this case Martin. If, for example, you made a complaint about someone making racist comments would you like the club to pass your details on to the person in question?
Perhaps Martin could clarify if the club have given him that persons details or not?
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No personal details were given. The comment was that they had received many emails from witnesses backing Martins version of events. They also pointed out that they had received a couple who claimed Martin was rightly ejected as he was very rude to that steward. As I was stood one person away from Martin at the time I can honestly say that they were shit stirring trolls. End of!
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I was the one person between RR and SM! He was never rude nor obnoxious nor anything else levelled his way, he was amicable with the ejection (tho puzzled I don't doubt) and the club have gone through the wringer to sort it one way or another!
The club have acted in the best possible way in all areas of this incident and a reciprocal, middle of the road amicable solution has been sorted!
Well played all round!
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DRFC, I dont know if you have deliberately misread or misunderstood my question, but nowhere in any posts that have been made on the subject does it say that that the comments made by the individual(s) were about the incident in question. They quite clearly are personal comments about Martin himself. This is the direct quotation:
'But to those ‘trolls’ who thought it wise to contact the club and express their opinion of me in a negative way, shame on you!! Fortunately the club didn’t pay any attention to them!
For clarity's sake would you now wish to comment on the person(s) who did this?
Nothing I have read indicates that any details were given out btw.
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Wilts, it seems you're the one misunderstanding here, I'll quote from my last post:
"if they intentionally misrepresented this situation to get one over on Martin that's reprehensible."
Does that clear it up?
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Not really DRFC, nowhere in Martin's comment does it relate to these people 'misrepresenting this situation', that appears to be something you have either plucked out of thin air or have other sources to that I am unaware of from this thread. My question is related to the comment that is in the public domain and included in my post above.
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I feel we're off on a tangent here.
If someone intentionally used this situation to stick the boot into Martin then that individual is a Kitson.
If someone viewed the incident and, in their opinion, Martin was in the wrong then they did right emailing the club. As I said earlier 10 witnesses will normally give 10 different versions of events.
If the club gave that persons details to Martin (rather than just telling him X number of emails pro, Y number anti Martin) then that's a fairly serious breach of trust by the club. Judging from Martins comments this was premeditated on their part, how would he know that without being privy to the contents of that email and, potentially, knowing who made the complaint in the first place.
Once again for those that seem to want to pigeon hole me into something I'm not:
I fully support Martin in this issue, in my opinion he was dealt with terribly by the club and I'm glad that, finally, lessons have been learnt.
I'm concerned that, potentially, the club could be releasing people's info to a third party. I'm awaiting Martin to confirm.
Bullet point for the terminally stupid:
* My issue is with the club, not Martin.
I await Colin C's apology for his unprovoked attack.
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It would appear that all these later comments about the trolls were kicked off by me, sorry for that. I think if you stand back and judge DRFC's comments fairly he is actively trying to provoking a situation out of nothing. Why he would want to do that? I don't really know perhaps he has a grievance against the club or the smooth running of the VSC forum or could it be he got the sack recently?
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It would appear that all these later comments about the trolls were kicked off by me, sorry for that. I think if you stand back and judge DRFC's comments fairly he is actively trying to provoking a situation out of nothing. Why he would want to do that? I don't really know perhaps he has a grievance against the club or the smooth running of the VSC forum or could it be he got the sack recently?
Are you drinking tonight, Alick? I've no issue with the club other than it's completely unjustified removal of Martin (although I'm heartened to see it's resolved to the betterment of all fans)
I'm trying to provoke only debate, scroll back and see who's been abused here. You'll find I've been polite throughout.
I've no grievance with the club, why would I? Also, I've recently left a job and moved into another one but the relevance of that is lost on me. What did you have for breakfast?
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DRFC,
I like your style, what size feet have you got?
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DRFC,
I like your style, what size feet have you got?
You're not the first to like my style and I'm sure you'll not be the last.
Size 9.
Have you ever danced naked in the rain?
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Yes but it didn't go down too well with the Spanish police...
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We better pack in, this is a serious thread... :chair:
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I feel we're off on a tangent here.
If someone intentionally used this situation to stick the boot into Martin then that individual is a Kitson.
If someone viewed the incident and, in their opinion, Martin was in the wrong then they did right emailing the club. As I said earlier 10 witnesses will normally give 10 different versions of events.
If the club gave that persons details to Martin (rather than just telling him X number of emails pro, Y number anti Martin) then that's a fairly serious breach of trust by the club. Judging from Martins comments this was premeditated on their part, how would he know that without being privy to the contents of that email and, potentially, knowing who made the complaint in the first place.
Once again for those that seem to want to pigeon hole me into something I'm not:
I fully support Martin in this issue, in my opinion he was dealt with terribly by the club and I'm glad that, finally, lessons have been learnt.
I'm concerned that, potentially, the club could be releasing people's info to a third party. I'm awaiting Martin to confirm.
Bullet point for the terminally stupid:
* My issue is with the club, not Martin.
I await Colin C's apology for his unprovoked attack.
Are you for real?
Find something else to occupy your time. And don't wait too long for Colin C's apology...life's too short.
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You will have a long wait if it's an apology from Colin C you are looking for. It's always somebody else in the wrong isn't it Colin?
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I feel we're off on a tangent here.
If someone intentionally used this situation to stick the boot into Martin then that individual is a Kitson.
If someone viewed the incident and, in their opinion, Martin was in the wrong then they did right emailing the club. As I said earlier 10 witnesses will normally give 10 different versions of events.
If the club gave that persons details to Martin (rather than just telling him X number of emails pro, Y number anti Martin) then that's a fairly serious breach of trust by the club. Judging from Martins comments this was premeditated on their part, how would he know that without being privy to the contents of that email and, potentially, knowing who made the complaint in the first place.
Once again for those that seem to want to pigeon hole me into something I'm not:
I fully support Martin in this issue, in my opinion he was dealt with terribly by the club and I'm glad that, finally, lessons have been learnt.
I'm concerned that, potentially, the club could be releasing people's info to a third party. I'm awaiting Martin to confirm.
Bullet point for the terminally stupid:
* My issue is with the club, not Martin.
I await Colin C's apology for his unprovoked attack.
Are you for real?
Find something else to occupy your time. And don't wait too long for Colin C's apology...life's too short.
You've lost me, son.
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I feel we're off on a tangent here.
If someone intentionally used this situation to stick the boot into Martin then that individual is a Kitson.
If someone viewed the incident and, in their opinion, Martin was in the wrong then they did right emailing the club. As I said earlier 10 witnesses will normally give 10 different versions of events.
If the club gave that persons details to Martin (rather than just telling him X number of emails pro, Y number anti Martin) then that's a fairly serious breach of trust by the club. Judging from Martins comments this was premeditated on their part, how would he know that without being privy to the contents of that email and, potentially, knowing who made the complaint in the first place.
Once again for those that seem to want to pigeon hole me into something I'm not:
I fully support Martin in this issue, in my opinion he was dealt with terribly by the club and I'm glad that, finally, lessons have been learnt.
I'm concerned that, potentially, the club could be releasing people's info to a third party. I'm awaiting Martin to confirm.
Bullet point for the terminally stupid:
* My issue is with the club, not Martin.
I await Colin C's apology for his unprovoked attack.
Are you for real?
Find something else to occupy your time. And don't wait too long for Colin C's apology...life's too short.
You've lost me, son.
Sorry, Dad
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You will have a long wait if it's an apology from Colin C you are looking for. It's always somebody else in the wrong isn't it Colin?
Don't worry too much about Colin C's criticism of you Yorkiered..... I think he was in a jokey way just challenging your opinion that the draw against Stoke was "shit" and wouldn't attract a very good crowd.
Some posters on here just want to be positive, you know, if possible.
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Certainly wasn't very positive when he said I was accusing Martin of lying or that I didn't have the balls to ask him. Especially as that is categorically not what I was saying.
Perhaps he has a differing version of being positive to me.
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By the way, just for clarification. The club haven't disclosed anything of a personal nature.
Those people claiming to have witnessed the events quite clearly didn't, as was born out from CCTV evidence and others.
I hope that helps.
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Thanks for clearing that up, Martin.
There are some very low individuals about if they're prepared to lie to the club about a fellow fan just to settle a score over an internet forum.
I absolutely abhor liars.
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By the way, just for clarification. The club haven't disclosed anything of a personal nature.
Those people claiming to have witnessed the events quite clearly didn't, as was born out from CCTV evidence and others.
I hope that helps.
As I said about 10 posts back 😏
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Actually, how does Martin know that people have contacted the club? Surely the club should treat any contact in confidence, regardless of it being positive or negative about the ejection?
I refer you to your earlier contribution.
Explain that one, hand on heart.
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What a weird bunch of contributions old DRFC has come up with. I have a feeling he's turning into our latter day Mick. You're not Mick by any chance are you? You're clearly not for real so you I suppose you must have to be somebody, somewhere.
Tell you something else that's odd DRFC: you popping into existence when and how you did. Anyone would think you had an agenda. Funny that don't you think? You abhor liars apparently. Me? I respect integrity and intelligence. Martin has lots of both. In Spades. What have you got? I have a strong feeling you must abhor yourself.
Cheers
BobG
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What a weird bunch of contributions old DRFC has come up with. I have a feeling he's turning into our latter day Mick. You're not Mick by any chance are you? You're clearly not for real so you I suppose you must have to be somebody, somewhere.
Tell you something else that's odd DRFC: you popping into existence when and how you did. Anyone would think you had an agenda. Funny that don't you think? You abhor liars apparently. Me? I respect integrity and intelligence. Martin has lots of both. In Spades. What have you got? I have a strong feeling you must abhor yourself.
Cheers
BobG
How many people have you accused of being Mad Mick, Bob? Hand on heart?
If you're accusing me of lying based on what you know about me which, given you've accused me of being someone completely different, is obviously very little I strongly suggest you show me your proof. Otherwise you'll look a bit of a knob, won't you?
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/quote]
Otherwise you'll look a bit of a knob, won't you?
Oh, the irony!
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Someone obviously gets his understanding of Irony from Alanis Morissette. :headbang:
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Gi up the lot of yer :)
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Gi up the lot of yer :)
Agreed.
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Look! Two pages now wasted by this wastrel.
And to answer your question, one.
BobG
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Look! An unfounded accusation from someone who should know better given his legal issues in the past. Need to watch those old fingers Bob, they'll get you in trouble again. You sharp deleted that post about Oyston the other day, I thought you might have been slowly learning your lesson but it's obviously a very slow process.
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Anyone here like oysters? f**king vile they are.
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There are some very low individuals about if they're prepared to lie to the club about a fellow fan just to settle a score over an internet forum.
I absolutely abhor liars.
Posted by: DRFC
« on: December 11, 2015, 09:41:49 PM »
Are you drinking tonight, Alick? I've no issue with the club other than it's completely unjustified removal of Martin......
I'm trying to provoke only debate...
I've no grievance with the club.....
Posted by: DRFC
« on: December 11, 2015, 08:59:46 PM »
If the club gave that persons details to Martin (rather than just telling him X number of emails pro, Y number anti Martin) then that's a fairly serious breach of trust by the club....
I'm concerned that, potentially, the club could be releasing people's info to a third party
Is it just me, or is the assertion in post No1, made to look contradictory by posts Nos 2 and 3?
As I said in a previous comment about this poster, his/her interaction with other forum posters, and perceived prior knowledge of them, would lead a suspicious person to the conclusion that this is not the first time this person has been a member of this forum.
Which, if true, would mean they seemingly attempting to cause arguments around holding others to account for breaking rules - whilst breaking them him/herself.
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Good job you're not a suspicious person though, eh?
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What I really find hilarious is two of the most argumentative, shit s
tirring posters on here calling DRFC.
You couldn't make it up. :facepalm:
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Without lifting all the quotes, DRFC, you clearly implied that club may have given Martin personal information on 3rd parties - in a way that I interpreted that you believed this to be the case. Then you changed your tack to have a go at what folks may have said either positively or negatively - neither of which you would have known directly unless you were involved with the process.
Martin since clarified that no 3rd party information was disclosed to him, so your first hypothesis was wrong.
Now, without descending into abuse, why are you getting so involved in this? There's no wonder some posters may think you have an agenda - whether you do or not!
Thank f**k there is a football match today!!!
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forum mods haven't had to intefere much these last few months; we'd like it to stay that way.
pack it in with the name calling please - if anyone has a problem with another user either PM them directly or PM the Forum Admin.