Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: Filo on December 06, 2017, 06:34:31 pm
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Is Trump that arrogant that he can't see beyond the end of his nose, he seems to be picking fights with everyone in the world
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Seems he can't see a hornets' nest without wanting to stir it up.
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When you have problems at home divert attention by creating problems abroad/starting a war somewhere...
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When you have problems at home divert attention by creating problems abroad/starting a war somewhere...
Don't tell Theresa May that!
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It's distraction. I genuinely think he's very stupid, which is why he's so short sighted. The Mueller investigation is getting close to home? Better go and wade into the Middle East! In aiming for a short-term distraction he's creating a lot of long-term problems for the rest of the world, not that he cares.
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Like I said the other day, he is a lot of things but stupid isn’t one of them. Thinking he is is a big mistake.
He’s doing this for the reasons I said in the other thread. To stir up trouble and inspire his base.
Whatever happens to Trump’s presidency, those angry bigots are still going to exist.
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I think his ego gets in the way of any rational thinking
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Like I said the other day, he is a lot of things but stupid isn’t one of them. Thinking he is is a big mistake.
He’s doing this for the reasons I said in the other thread. To stir up trouble and inspire his base.
Whatever happens to Trump’s presidency, those angry bigots are still going to exist.
I don't know. I think Trump can be a complete clown while also being incredibly dangerous. Just because he had Steve Bannon's hand up his arse controlling his every move doesn't mean Trump is intelligent.
If Trump was an incredibly calculating political player, I'm not sure Putin would have worked so hard to put him in power. The people around Trump are certainly canny operators, turning Trump's mindless burbling right wing word salad into policy, but the man himself? He can barely speak.
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Trump and co don't give a monkeys about upsetting the Arabs,they're a spent force, the Yanks have got approx 80 Bbl shale oil reserves, when that runs out we will all be using lithium Battery powered transport.
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Macho
Youre judging him on the wrong type of intelligence. It’s not about eloquent speaking or ability to think deeply in complex issues. What he has is an empathetic intelligence with the 30odd% of Americans who have been waiting for a politician to come along and justify their prejudices. He does that brilliantly. Underestimate that at your peril.
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Trump wants a war, all lousy leaders are happy to engage in wars as they know it takes peoples minds off the economy they get behind the flag and it benefits the incumbent. Thatcher, Bush, John Howard, Blair.
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Trump and co don't give a monkeys about upsetting the Arabs,they're a spent force, the Yanks have got approx 80 Bbl shale oil reserves, when that runs out we will all be using lithium Battery powered transport.
Yes what a prophetic Novel "Wheels" by Arthur Hailey was (and a great read ! *)
Main thrust was the Car Companies had the technology (it said) to produce the Cars we are now seeing going into mainstream production. Electric,Hybrid & Hydrogen Cell could be made (it said **) but the Companies were suppressing all knowledge as they had too much to lose at that time.
Then at a time to suit them they unleash the technology and eventually get all the older stuff phased out and just as Sprotyrover has indicated that time is near !
** Cant remember how old the Book is but it was great and he may have imagined that Car Co's had the technology or it was fiction. Either way it has an uncanny parallel and truth to it now
* Since I read the book I cant go into a Car Showroom without thinking of the "bugged" Salesman's desks. Basically the book suggested that when the Salesman leaves to "have a word with the Manager" both the Salesman and the Manager just listen in and how many times have you declared to your other half something like "if they come down another Thousand and throw in x, y or z" I would probably sign up ?
Then the Salesman comes back and then offers you what you have offered or something very close to it. It's probably crap but I can never rule it out or not think about it
Anyway back to Trump
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18 months ago an article appeared in the Times bemoaning the lack of a readily accessible supply of Lithium in the world, 2/3 Months later Rio Tinto announces the Jardar lithium deposit in Serbia enough to supply all the worlds needs for 20 years or the whole of europes needs for 80 years.
The Serbs are sat on a minimum of 130 million tons of easily accessible lithium.hence we now see the rush to get Electric Cars into production.
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Macho
Youre judging him on the wrong type of intelligence. It’s not about eloquent speaking or ability to think deeply in complex issues. What he has is an empathetic intelligence with the 30odd% of Americans who have been waiting for a politician to come along and justify their prejudices. He does that brilliantly. Underestimate that at your peril.
A fair argument, but I'd put it more down to Trump's demented survival instinct, which is just to offer everyone whatever they want at all times and then kick the can down the road until people forget about it. Whether he calculated it, or whether he simply was the right (wrong) man at the right (wrong) time, when a decent percentage of America was feeling angry and betrayed, and up against a dismal candidate who many Americans felt embodied everything they hated about politics, is up for debate. You could say for him to capitalise on that situation took some degree of intelligence, but I'm not so sure.
Either way, the historians of the future will be puzzling on all this for many years with no answer.
I notice Al Franken resigned today (or announced his intention to do so) after a series of sexual misconduct claims. Compare and contrast that with Roy Moore, who now has the backing of Trump and the GOP. America has a serious personality disorder, and Trump seems to be a grotesque symptom of it.
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When you have problems at home divert attention by creating problems abroad/starting a war somewhere...
That's exactly what he's done, he can feel Mueller breathing down his neck .
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I see Roy Moore lost his election, meaning Alabama of all places has a Democrat Senator now. I'm not sure what this means. On the one hand, one of the hardest core Republican strongholds has fallen. On the other hand, the Republican candidate was a literal child molester, and he still only lost by 2 points.
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I see Roy Moore lost his election, meaning Alabama of all places has a Democrat Senator now. I'm not sure what this means. On the one hand, one of the hardest core Republican strongholds has fallen. On the other hand, the Republican candidate was a literal child molester, and he still only lost by 2 points.
I think it just proves that if the Reps had run anyone else he/ she would have won.
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I see Roy Moore lost his election, meaning Alabama of all places has a Democrat Senator now. I'm not sure what this means. On the one hand, one of the hardest core Republican strongholds has fallen. On the other hand, the Republican candidate was a literal child molester, and he still only lost by 2 points.
I think it just proves that if the Reps had run anyone else he/ she would have won.
From what I've been reading a strong black turnout is what swung it. White people - including white women - were largely not too bothered by having a racist, homophobic child molester in office. I wonder if that would have made the difference even if it was a relatively average Republican Alabama candidate.
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TRB
Certainly they would have won with anyone else.
But.
In 2014, the Dems didn’t even bother putting up a candidate, such a Rep stronghold is Alabama.
This is a game changer. For the Dems to even get close in AL, following on from winning the Governors’ seats in NJ and VA, it strongly suggests that the tide is turning.
And this matters. Once the Reps start to think Trump is a millstone who will lose them their seats, they will impeach him in a flash.
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I imagine that moderate Republicans have rather mixed feelings after this result. Nervous about losing seats in the Mid-Terms. On the other hand relieved that they don't have to be associated with Moore. They may also feel that anything that clips Trump's wings can't be a bad thing.
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That's making the rather large assumption that this will affect Trump's behaviour one iota. My view of the man is that it'll just make him even more belligerent.
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That's making the rather large assumption that this will affect Trump's behaviour one iota. My view of the man is that it'll just make him even more belligerent.
I suppose the point I was making is that he is less likely to have the support in Congress to achieve very much.
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I see what you mean, and yes I agree. Mind you, he's achieved sod all so far so things don't look like changing at all!
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Macho
Youre judging him on the wrong type of intelligence. It’s not about eloquent speaking or ability to think deeply in complex issues. What he has is an empathetic intelligence with the 30odd% of Americans who have been waiting for a politician to come along and justify their prejudices. He does that brilliantly. Underestimate that at your peril.
Trump is like that expert used car salesman that has had your trousers down before you know it. It's not about the pretty words, degrees or even appearance. He can be more accurately compared to a street fighter rather than than that finely honed boxer down at the gym. He uses cronies to do all the expert stuff and then chucks them away as soon as they are no longer useful.
He will have learnt these skills from his father from a very early age and as you say uses them to mobilise his troops , his gang if you like , as a barrier or agitator when the going gets tough. He is an arch- manipulator actor and most of all bully.
He has that base of his eating out of his hand and hanging on to his every tweet, word or action because they want to be just like him with all the trappings of wealth and fame.
He has picked his support base wisely because they have little or no hope other than that which he falsely supplies to them.
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TRB
Certainly they would have won with anyone else.
But.
In 2014, the Dems didn’t even bother putting up a candidate, such a Rep stronghold is Alabama.
This is a game changer. For the Dems to even get close in AL, following on from winning the Governors’ seats in NJ and VA, it strongly suggests that the tide is turning.
And this matters. Once the Reps start to think Trump is a millstone who will lose them their seats, they will impeach him in a flash.
Exactly Ryan and his buddies will turn their backs on him - they want their tax reforms first . Then if this tide keeps rolling in the same direction the kingmaker will lead him to the scaffold. I'm sure they have enough dirt on him by now .
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57jRBt4h6ks
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Brilliant
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Jesus wept. It’s bad enough hearing idiots on here talking like this. But when the Leader if the Free World does it...
https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/946531657229701120
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* Since I read the book I cant go into a Car Showroom without thinking of the "bugged" Salesman's desks. Basically the book suggested that when the Salesman leaves to "have a word with the Manager" both the Salesman and the Manager just listen in and how many times have you declared to your other half something like "if they come down another Thousand and throw in x, y or z" I would probably sign up ?
Then the Salesman comes back and then offers you what you have offered or something very close to it. It's probably crap but I can never rule it out or not think about it
[/quote]
Believe me John I have worked for Reg Vardy, Stoneacre , Kia, Toyota, Mazda as well as small independents..........
It definitely does NOT work like that, the salesman wants a deal , the one retaining the profit is the Business Manager - the salesman has to fight for every penny on your behalf . Without you there is no deal, no wage packet and ultimately no job. Whose side do you think the salesman is on now ? He is merely the middle man, told to do deals that sometimes make no money but still take his time up in order to hit manufacturers targets. Loss leading, the front- loaded profit often unlocks a reserved profit for the dealership as a whole . Often salesmen are left with a £15-25 pre-tax payment for up to 4/5 hours work .
If they turn you away because you've asked for too much - they don't get paid either for 1/2 hours of wasted time.
The trick is for the salesman to convince both you and the Business Manager that a compromise can be struck. Good salesman " farm " good customers time and time again with a win-win for all sides compromising for all 3 parties each and every time . However it relies in all parties being both honest and realistic.
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#1 book in the world right now is this new tell-all biography of the Trump White House. It seems every person who works with him, including his own family members, seem to view him as a child, of diminishing mental capacity, who has no attention span whatsoever. Personal favourite example of this is the story about Trump yelling at one of the cleaners for picking his shirts up off the floor, because if his shirt is on the floor that's obviously where he wants it.
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How long a journey is it from
“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free”
to
“Why are we having all these people from shithole countries come here?”
Jesus f**king wept.
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Now blaming Obama for his not coming to open new London USA embassy, saying Obama sold old one too cheaply, such a bad deal. Unfortunately process began under George W Bush and he's scared of the demonstrations. You can't make it up.
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Now blaming Obama for his not coming to open new London USA embassy, saying Obama sold old one too cheaply, such a bad deal. Unfortunately process began under George W Bush and he's scared of the demonstrations. You can't make it up.
But unfortunately he seems very good at it.....
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Now blaming Obama for his not coming to open new London USA embassy, saying Obama sold old one too cheaply, such a bad deal. Unfortunately process began under George W Bush and he's scared of the demonstrations. You can't make it up.
Apparently they never owned the other one to sell
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Now blaming Obama for his not coming to open new London USA embassy, saying Obama sold old one too cheaply, such a bad deal. Unfortunately process began under George W Bush and he's scared of the demonstrations. You can't make it up.
Funny how this wasn't a problem when the visit was arranged, or for the several months it's been in the diary since.
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Now blaming Obama for his not coming to open new London USA embassy, saying Obama sold old one too cheaply, such a bad deal. Unfortunately process began under George W Bush and he's scared of the demonstrations. You can't make it up.
it was leased from that little known property man £Duke of Westminster,
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Who do you think said this today:
It is the most secure, hi-tech and environmentally friendly embassy that the United States has ever built. Purchased and built from the sale of our London properties, the new embassy did not cost the US taxpayer a cent. Yet is one of the most advanced embassies we have ever built.
a) Donald Trump
b) some bloke on Twitter
c) the US Ambassador to the UK
https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/our-nine-elms-embassy-is-the-most-advanced-we-ve-ever-built-a3738566.html
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I think large parts of London outside the visitor areas are dog holes, Millwall, Charlton, Q.P.R. Brentford, just to name a few.
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"So the US Embassy ‘deal’ was instigated by George W Bush, whose administration secured the Battersea site, & the Grosvenor Square freehold was never theirs to sell."
https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/951727814738415616
quelle surprise
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The stock exchange is up 30% in the U.S.A. since he took office, he must be doing something right, well he has made some people a lot of money.
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The stock exchange is up 30% in the U.S.A. since he took office, he must be doing something right, well he has made some people a lot of money.
yes, he's pretty much done the opposite of draining the swamp, that's why the markets are up
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Markets are up all over the world over the past year because the global economy is finally getting up to speed after the Great Crash.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DStyMDcUMAAFHB5.jpg)
The USA isn’t doing particularly well compared to other markets, but it’s nothing to do with Trump either way.
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Yes Trump is winning; DOW at all time record levels, higher employment and there’s the worldwide bounce too! What’s not to appreciate about all that?
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Yes Trump is winning; DOW at all time record levels, higher employment and there’s the worldwide bounce too! What’s not to appreciate about all that?
Did you see BST's post above? Worldwide markets are all up, so how can that be because of Trump?
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The stock exchange is up 30% in the U.S.A. since he took office, he must be doing something right, well he has made some people a lot of money.
yes, he's pretty much done the opposite of draining the swamp, that's why the markets are up
That's exactly what he is doing .
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Yes Trump is winning; DOW at all time record levels, higher employment and there’s the worldwide bounce too! What’s not to appreciate about all that?
What legislation has he passed to achieve all that? Aside from his tax bill, which most economists agree will hurt when it starts to take effect, he's still essentially running on Obama-era policies.
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Hmmm....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42724380
Next it'll be "Wall? What wall? I never said anything about a wall! FAKE. NEWS."
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Wait and watch Mueller’s investigation. It’s gatgering pace nicely. He’s already turned several Trump associates to his side. We’ll see the details of what Putin has on Trump sometime in late 2018.
And it’ll be the biggest criminal scandal in American political history. There’s a very good chance that Trump will be in prison before the next Presidential election.
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I think the key is if Mueller gets an interview with Trump. Trump is doing his best to weasel out of it (wonder why?), and his legal team seem to be taking an extremely flexible view of the law in doing so. That surely won't stand up under pressure from Mueller.
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MM
That is one way. But Mueller already knows that Trump has breached the Logan Act. He’s assiduously putting the evidence together by turning the screws on Trump’s ex-associates.
Flynn has cracked. Papadopoulos has cracked. Kushner is the next one. They will provide Mueller with his evidence. It’s coming.
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If you’ve got a spare few minutes, this guy is worth reading. He’s been predicting the steps of the Mueller inquiry correctly for months.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/937816893448245248.html
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If you’ve got a spare few minutes, this guy is worth reading. He’s been predicting the steps of the Mueller inquiry correctly for months.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/937816893448245248.html
Hard work reading through it but you can see exactly how Mueller will reel them all in despite their best efforts - he wants them all especially the big lardarse himself . Trump is used to buying off people, manipulating the rules of the game to get maximum leverage however Mueller will prove to be his nemesis.
With a target, masquerading as a President, Mueller is right to be methodical- he has to get both Trump and Pence right in the crosshairs before firing
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Hoola
There will be a wonderful irony if it is the Logan Act that brings Trump down. If his criminal action was (illegally) negotiating with Putin in the period between the Nov 2016 election and his Jan 2017 inauguration. It would mean that a combination of
a) His overwhelming desire to appease Putin
b) His ignorance of procedure and law, and
c) His bombastic arrogance and egotism, in think that he can do whatever he wants and get away with it
would be what destroys him. That would be perfect.
Mind, as abramson says, the scary thing is the concerted attempt by right wing commentators to try to brush away the Logan Act as irrelevant. It’s a pattern. Trump will be supported by them whatever laws he breaks and trouble he causes because he’s on their side. Just like they supported Roy Moore in Alabama despite the allegations that he was a predatory child molester, because he wasn’t a Democrat.
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But he's pissed off an awful lot of influential Republicans that you wouldn't have expected from a Republican president. There's quite a few of them that would be happy to hang him out to dry for the sake of both their party and their country.
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They’ve got to be careful though. 35-40% of Americans and 80-odd% of Republican supporters still thing Trump is doing a good job and believe he’s being unfairly treated by the liberal Establishment. This is the endgame of decades of Fox News.
So Republicans who genuinely think he’s somewhere on the scale from evil to deranged, via just a plain and simple greedy, ignorant egotist have to be careful about being accused of not being behind him.
I still think they WILL stick the knife in eventually, when they get eviscerated in the mid sessional, but I’m far from certain.
In some ways it’s fascinating. This is how very bad things happen. When a charismatic leader tells the base that their hatreds are normal, and the politicians a level down who are meant to keep him in check are too self-serving, craven or vowed to do so. Godwin’s Law and all that but this is precisely how You Know Who became all-powerful.
If Trump survives Mueller through the Republicans being prepared to cover for him then God f**king help us.
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That was one thing that I picked out in Abramson's recent threads. Trump and the people around him are deliberately putting up ludicrous legal arguments to muddy the waters, such as Don Jr arguing attorney client privilege just because someone on a conference call happened to be a lawyer. These arguments are ridiculous and hold no water but they cause delays as Trump runs every issue to the Supreme Court. His endgame is to buy time and delay the issue until the midterms, when the Republican establishment will be less inclined to stick the knife into the Dear Leader for fear of not getting elected.
Essentially Trump is going to fall back on extreme bureaucracy to obfuscate and bury the issue somewhere in America's justice system.
If you'd told me all this a couple of years ago, I'd have said there was no way Trump stays out of prison, much less stays president, but then we aren't exactly living in logical times.
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Well now.
If you were guilty as hell of committing treasonous crimes to get yourself into the White House, and if the Department of Justice brought in an FBI Special Investigator to look into these allegations, and if that Investigator was getting damn close to nailing you, what would you do.
This is what I’d do. I’d get my lackeys in Congress to write up a one-sided memo that accused the FBI and DOJ of being in the pocket of my political opponents. I’d stir up the issue of this memo for days. I’d release it to the public, hoping for a wave of support.
What I’d do then is, I’d paint myself as the Saviour of the Nation who was going to clear out these scoundrels. And I’d fire the Investigator and the top officials at the DOJ who hired him. And then I’d have got away with it.
Actually, I really wouldn’t because that would effectively destroy the concept of the rule of law in America. That would mean that, as President, I could effectively get away with breaking any law I wanted. It’d never happen. I’ve just watched too many episode of House of Cards.
Hang on though...
https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/959389424806191104?
If he gets away with what he’s now openly planning, that’s the game up for America. There’s no way back.
I said a couple of weeks ago “If Trump survives Mueller through the Republicans being prepared to cover for him then God f**king help us.” It looks like I was naive in the extreme. He wasn’t banking on the Republicans covering him. Instead they have actually made him a gun and bullets with which to come out shooting. This next week may well be the most important one in America’s history since the Civil War. He must not be allowed to get away with this.
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Yes, it is indeed very scary and I’m wondering whether he will, in fact, get away with it. He is doing what he does best - as Andy says, putting up walls, creating subterfuge, accusing the accusers and lying like hell. And weirdly since the ‘office of president’ has always held a special respect to us, no one is pushing back too hard or at all, tbh. But if the republicans in Congress put their own political ambition before those of the truth and democracy and watch while illegal sh*t goes down - which is very clear to anyone that there were dealings which are close to the edge and need to be investigated, then we have indeed lost the war, and god help us, and who knows what will happen next.
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You can see it rolling out before our eyes. The most brazen attack on the structures of American democracy.
This is how it works this week.
1) The memo is hyped across the Trump-supporting media and the Putin troll factories as “proving” that the FBI and DOJ were institutionally anti-Trump. (They weren’t of course. The FBI announced days before the election that Clinton was under investigation and that probably lost her the election.)
2) They increasingly focus on the Deputy Attourney General, Rod Rosenstein. They will say that the memo “proves” that he wrongly approved an investigation into links between Trump’s aid Carter Page and Russian spies.
3) The calls to sack Rosenstein will be ramped up this week. Trump stirring it on Twitter as he did in that link above, last night.
Why does this matter? Because Rosenstein brought in Mueller as the Special Investigator into Trump/Putin. Trump knows that even the Republican Congress will not allow him to sack Mueller himself. But he CAN sack Rosenstein, using the memo as his reasoning - then replace him with a subservient Deputy AG who WILL sack Mueller.
Watch it play out this week. If the Republican Party allow him to sack and replace Rosenstein without impeaching him for clear and unambiguous obstruction of justice, then American democratic rule of law dies. For the first time in history, the president will have established that he can commit treason and get away with it. That’s why this week is such a huge one.
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This is interesting, or it would be if it weren't so scary. This memo has been built up as a smoking gun even though the tiny amount of evidence it presents is hopelessly twisted, misleading and often based on lies and falsehoods. That this piece of fluff can lead to calls for Democrat, FBI and DOJ figures to be charged with treason is really worrying.
Since it was first mentioned I was questioning why people were buying it even though it was named after Trump's pet Nunes. I still don't understand it fully.
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MM
The people who are buying into it are the ones who have decided that they are on Trump’s side and now want a justification for his salvation.
By no rational measure does this memo offer a route to absolve Trump. But we’re way beyond the rational. This is about belief. This memo is being aimed at believers. They will read into it whatever they want to.
The purpose of the memo is to be just about believable enough to just about enough people so that Trump can claim justification when he fires Rosenstein and replaces him and then...hey...whaddya know? the replacement fires Mueller.
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You can see it rolling out before our eyes. The most brazen attack on the structures of American democracy.
This is how it works this week.
1) The memo is hyped across the Trump-supporting media and the Putin troll factories as “proving” that the FBI and DOJ were institutionally anti-Trump. (They weren’t of course. The FBI announced days before the election that Clinton was under investigation and that probably lost her the election.)
2) They increasingly focus on the Deputy Attourney General, Rod Rosenstein. They will say that the memo “proves” that he wrongly approved an investigation into links between Trump’s aid Carter Page and Russian spies.
3) The calls to sack Rosenstein will be ramped up this week. Trump stirring it on Twitter as he did in that link above, last night.
Why does this matter? Because Rosenstein brought in Mueller as the Special Investigator into Trump/Putin. Trump knows that even the Republican Congress will not allow him to sack Mueller himself. But he CAN sack Rosenstein, using the memo as his reasoning - then replace him with a subservient Deputy AG who WILL sack Mueller.
Watch it play out this week. If the Republican Party allow him to sack and replace Rosenstein without impeaching him for clear and unambiguous obstruction of justice, then American democratic rule of law dies. For the first time in history, the president will have established that he can commit treason and get away with it. That’s why this week is such a huge one.
Here we go. This is step 1.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/thehill.com/homenews/administration/372191-trump-touts-findings-of-nunes-memo%3famp
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/02/02/shocking-memo-reveals-how-comey-disgraced-honorable-fbi.amp.html
http://www.breitbart.com/video/2018/02/03/pirro-desperate-fbi-doj-conspired-undermine-election-stop-trump/
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And here’s step 2 commencing via Fox News.
https://mobile.twitter.com/GreggJarrett/status/959824077115576321
https://mobile.twitter.com/GreggJarrett/status/959766883770818566
It’s rolling out in plain sight.
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I find it hard to believe that half of the US congress i.e. Republican Party would sit back and let the scenario played out in Billy's post unfold with out doing something about it.
Likewise The CIA or the FBI.as president Trump has access to a great deal of information which would undoubtedly destroy both organisations.
Its like the incitement of The Fascist Ukrainian Government to take on the Russians by the then Democratic Govt of the US.
They are all keeping their heads down because they don't want to loose them.
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Sproty
Then you’ve obviously not been paying attention to American politics for the past couple of decades.
The Republican Party was taken over years ago by people who have one aim - tax cuts for the richest and everything else is secondary. That’s why the Koch Brothers gave $600k to Paul Ryan [1] immediately after he rammed through the most reactionary tax cuts imaginable.
The Republican politicians (most of them, there are honorable exceptions) put truth, the Constitution and the well-being of the majority of Americans a distant second to ramming through tax cuts for the wealthiest 1%.
That is why Farage is so chummy with them. They are birds of a feather. Truth doesn’t matter. All that matters is ramming their reaction agenda through.
If Trump goes down, he’ll take the Republican Party with him. That is why it’s in the interests of the Republican Party to give a treasonous criminal a clear path to stay in the White House for now.
[1] Ryan is the most powerful Republican in Congress. He is a perfect example of how Republicans are divorced from the truth. Years before he rammed through his tax cuts for the rich by lying that it was cuts for the poor, he showed what a pathological liar he was in the 2012 presidential election campaign. He was asked on a radio interview what his best ever marathon time was. He said, “Oh, 2 hour’s 50-something.” “Wow! That’s extremely impressive!” said America. Except is was an astonishing lie. He’d done one marathon in his life. In a time of 4 hours 24 mins.
Those are the people who lead the Republican Party. Lie about big things. Lie about small things. Lie about anything.
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Trump told the American voters what he was going to do and he is doing it, good luck to him, the world is benefiting from his policies,if the US thrives we all thrive.
We as a nation will benefit from the Trump administration. All Barack Obama did was threaten us with a big stick.
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Sporty.
So, to be clear, you’re saying that you’re fine with someone breaking the law as long as overall they do things that benefit you?
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What policies of Trump's are we benefitting from then? In his first whole year of being in power, the only thing I can think of that he promised to do and has actually managed to achieve has been tax cuts for the American rich.
As for Obama, are you trying to paint his warning that if we want to make ourselves small fish in a big pond then that is how everybody is going to treat us as some sort of threat?
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Sporty.
So, to be clear, you’re saying that you’re fine with someone breaking the law as long as overall they do things that benefit you?
I kid you not there is a lot more to this than 3 pages of drivel from a washed up British spy.
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1) Steele has a very long track record of working with the FBI to put criminals away. Washed up is precisely what someone would call him who either hadn’t looked at the issue or wanted him to be discredited.
2) Oh aye. There is a LOT more to the Trump case than just Steele’s dossier. A hell of a lot more. It’ll come out, so long as there are a handful of decent politicians in the Republican Party who put their country above their future.
Sproty. I’ll make a prediction now. You’re going to look something between naive and stupid when this washes up. What you are doing is saying you’re happy to turn a blind eye to one of the most important criminal conspiracies in history, because you agree with the politics of the criminals. You know who got to power through people with your approach don’t you?
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1) Steele has a very long track record of working with the FBI to put criminals away. Washed up is precisely what someone would call him who either hadn’t looked at the issue or wanted him to be discredited.
2) Oh aye. There is a LOT more to the Trump case than just Steele’s dossier. A hell of a lot more. It’ll come out, so long as there are a handful of decent politicians in the Republican Party who put their country above their future.
One of us will, Billy one of us will!
Sproty. I’ll make a prediction now. You’re going to look something between naive and stupid when this washes up. What you are doing is saying you’re happy to turn a blind eye to one of the most important criminal conspiracies in history, because you agree with the politics of the criminals. You know who got to power through people with your approach don’t you?
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The US secret services have got a long history of fabricating and escalating stories to suite their agenda, Libya and the over throw of Sadam Hussein spring to mind.
And a more recent example the Ukraine and the tapping of Angela Merkels phones, that was your buddies the Democrats.
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Yes Sproty. And that has what, precisely, to do with the points I raised?
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All quiet on the Trump Front today as he rightly points out a few home truths about the NHS.
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Aye. All those people marching in protest about the NHS eh? I bet Americans are delighted that they spend twice as much per person on health as we do, have 20-odd million people without health insurance and have worse health outcomes than we do.
Of course it was entirely coincidental that Farage was on Fox News spinning his bullshit about the NHS minutes before Trump tweeted his own bullshit.
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All quiet on the Trump Front today as he rightly points out a few home truths about the NHS.
You don't really believe that do you?
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Surely the protests were about supporting the NHS, providing more resources etc, not as Trump tried to say. Farage blames it on immigrants, does he mean doctors and nurses too!!
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Why was Farridge even there in the first place? I know how strongly he feels about foreigners meddling in domestic policy issues, and surely Fox already have a supply of their own homegrown swivel-eyed lunatics.
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Why was Farridge even there in the first place? I know how strongly he feels about foreigners meddling in domestic policy issues, and surely Fox already have a supply of their own homegrown swivel-eyed lunatics.
Because he now earns a living as a rentagob and gives Fox exactly what they want to show the US as an 'expert' about Britain.
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Their agenda is to discredit the idea of universal healthcare by any means necessary. Farage is the sort of 'authentic' voice they'd use to do that from somewhere that has it.
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Here’s a thought.
Why would anyone lie as consistently and badly as the Trump entourage unless there was something REALLY big that had to be fought off?
Latest one. Nunes, the head of the Intelligence Committee that released that memo claiming Trump was being victimised by the FBI. He’s said today that there’s no evidence that Trump ever met George Papadopoulos, the Trump adviser who has pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about his links to Putin.
That’s the head of the Congressional Intelligence Committee saying there’s no evidence.
See me? I’m not the head of the Congressional Intelligence Committee, but I first saw this picture more than 6 months back.
https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/dbMM3U0gOmFwGi7WB8mq6yigAQI=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/10160039/Screenshoot2.jpg
That’s Papadopoulos highlighted and Trump at the end of the table at the very select meeting of National Security advisers to the Trump campaign in 2016.
I knew of that picture. Every journalist in Washington knew of that picture. It’s inconceivable that Nunes didn’t know if that picture. Yet he said today, bold as brass that there was no evidence the two had ever met.
Why would you panic into lying about something so obviously disprovable unless you were terrified about the truth getting out?
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It's how Trumpism operates in the post-fact era. Everything you say is to be taken in isolation, completely free of any sort of context. It's why Trump and his cronies just say whatever makes them look good at any given time, without any consideration of facts, or what they said yesterday, or whether it's appropriate, or even what the party line is. That's how Trump operates, and now his acolytes are starting to follow suit.
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The whole Trump saga took a surreal turn tonight.
Mueller has subpoenaed one of Trump’s campaign advisers, Sam Nunberg. Mueller wants e-mails from Nunberg from his time with Trump.
Nunberg has publicly said “Screw that” and refused to hand over the e-mails. Which puts him in line for a contempt of court action and several years in clink.
Then he goes on TV tonight to explain himself.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UrurClZnLak
And then THIS.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=t7HnJGtmpOE
That’s someone who is so shiting it about his role in the Trump affair, that he’s prepared to go to prison rather than hand over e-mails, then getsshit-faced before going on TV in front of 10million people to explain himself.
I’ve never in my life seen anything like this. Or even imagined I’d see anything like this.
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To me, that is someone who knows he's going down regardless, so he's going to take a lot of people down with him
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We all know what Trump thinks about people withholding e-mails, don't we! ;)
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Jesus f**king wept.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-us-canada-43418892
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You couldn't make it up.
Donald could though. :blink:
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Well this is worth 20 minutes of your time. This is the way that democracy is heading.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mpbeOCKZFfQ
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FBI has just raided the office of Trump’s lawyer.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2018/04/09/us/politics/fbi-raids-office-of-trumps-longtime-lawyer-michael-cohen.amp.html
The net is closing...
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Sweet f**king Jesus. One of the most dangerous moments in global politics in the past 30 years and there’s a tantrum-prone child in charge in the Oval Office.
https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/984022625440747520
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Some of the stuff that Trump says really worries me.
I realise he has to do some chest thumping but he does come out with some rubbish.
I just hope that he has some sensible high ranking personnel calming things down.
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He's either ready for another feed or he's filled his nappy
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Some of the stuff that Trump says really worries me.
I realise he has to do some chest thumping but he does come out with some rubbish.
I just hope that he has some sensible high ranking personnel calming things down.
Trouble is that any White House Staff fitting your description have either jumped ship or been pushed.
The Emperor's New Clothes story comes to mind :chair:
Edit: Can we modify that Emoji into a Nuclear Bunker?
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I think we might need one shortly DU the way this is panning out.
We have a UK trying to make a name again for itself in the world, a newly emboldened La Belle France and Trump and an arsehole in the Kremlin who doesn't realise that NATO has had just about enough of the Russians trying to create a New World Order centred on them . Summat has to give , I guess we gonna have to call out the world's bully for a scrap at some time . Might as well be now.
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What a ride it was following this shit through push notifications to my phone at work. He went from declaring war, to un-declaring it, to blaming the Democrats and the FBI for the whole mess over the course of about an hour.
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Well he may be seen a an idiot, but the Chinese have blinked first over imports if nothing else, the Chinese leader backing off in a speech on quite a few things, and wanting more and wider dialogue.
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Trump...I can't believe he is the most powerful man on the planet.... this will all end with us turned into cinders....frightening!
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Sproty
That’s what happens when people are prepared to listen to bullshit.
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I see Paul Ryan is peaceing out in November. If even he can't be arsed to stick around and fight for his obsession with tax cuts and private health care, you know your country is in a bad way.
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Sproty
That’s what happens when people are prepared to listen to bullshit.
An analogy can be drawn here between the present and 1938, Germany had totally re armed, We and our allies had not kept up and this gave the Germans the edge and confidence to take us on.
The same situation exists Today, Russia has totally re armed with modern effective state of the Art equipment, we apart from the United States have run our armed forces into the ground,we are a disgrace and our European freeloading spend thrift Allies are nothing better than a pile of Dog do!
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I see Mueller has raised the prospect of subpoenaing Trump. That'll be interesting. Seth Abramson's Twitter makes for some very interesting reading today.
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Remarkable interview from Rudy Giuliani on Hannity last night. He said Trump reimbursed Michael Cohen for the $130,000 payment he made to Stormy Daniels, "funnelled" through a law firm in sub-$10,000 quantities so as not to breach spending laws. Now I'm not a lawyer, but in addition to contradicting Trump's story that the affair never happened and he knew nothing about the payment, that would be textbook money laundering, would it not?
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Trump like May over here following Cameron, is having to pick the pieces up left by the worst president in a long time.
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Agreed Selby.
Trump is doing a sterling job of picking up the reins and putting America back on course after the 8 year clusterf**k that went before him. I’m astonished more people don’t give Trump the plaudits he deserves for so selflessly sacrificing himself to putting the world and the country to rights, with no thought of his own needs.
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Billy I am not saying Trump is a good president, just saying that the one before him was poor.
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I agree with what Billy says..You have to hand it to Trump,,he gets criticised because in this generation we are just used to politically correct speeches full of bluff and bluster with no substance..Trump is not afraid to make decisions that benefit his country ,while maybe not sitting well with the rest of the world..Fact remains that USA is doing far better in all the data than the previous administration ever did...
Take today's news on Iran..Trumps right,it was a shocker of a deal that allowed them to continue doing what they wanted..They must have thought all there birthdays had come at once when Obama signed that..
So today while we and other European countries are howling in protest because we are to weak to act.He had the balls to do what was right..it's that simple for me..
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I give up. Maybe there really isn’t any hope...
WingCo
The entire world is against Trump pulling out of the Iran deal, with the exception of the most right-wing PM Israel has ever had, a handful of neo-cons in the White House who brought you Iraq and Stefan-f**king-Gorka.
Trump isn’t doing this because he’s got some fantastic geo-political strategy. He’s doing it because he viscerally loathes Obama and he will do everything he can to see Obama’s legacy destroyed. That’s why he left the Paris Accord. That’s why he left TTP. There’s no driving philosophy about what to do instead. It’s just reaction to the fact that Obama publicly humiliated him at a dinner in 2013.
You know what the story is in the dossier about Trump and Putin? The piss video? He didn’t have hookers piss on HIM. He rented the room that Obama had on a visit to Moscow and he had hookers piss on the bed.
The man is a venal, corrupt, criminal, narcissistic idiot. His dealing with Iran is putting the entire world in jeopardy because in future, any foreign leader that wants to negotiate with a US President will say, “Yeah, YOU might be negotiating in good faith, but you will be gone in 4 years. Who’s to say your country won’t elect another deranged man-child who will rip up this deal?”
He is pissing away America’s goodwill from the rest of the world and the world’s faith in America. And that leads you to a far more dangerous and unstable world that benefits very few.
You’re a smart guy. It scares me to death that you do not see any of this. This is how very bad things start.
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Despite Obama being not-really-very-left in a lot of his policies, a lot of right-wingers see him as the poster boy for liberal, social justice warrior, PC culture. That same culture that's so exaggerated and then vilified by the right-wing press. They'll happily sit by and watch Trump tear up human rights, peace treaties and trade deals left and right if it means that they get to give those namby-pamby leftists the finger. A strange time we live in.
However, the cold truth of this is that all of Trump's domestic "achievements", such as low unemployment, the stronger economy, etc, have come under what are Obama's policies. Trump hasn't actually changed f**k all domestically, apart from his tax cut which hasn't hit yet, but which most agree will really f**k over the 99%. If Obama was such a failure, why are his legacy policies still working so well that Trump keeps trying to take credit for them, despite barely changing anything yet?
Also, it's coming out today that the Stormy Daniels lawyer has found evidence of a $500,000 payment from a Russian oligarch to Trump's fixer, Michael Cohen. Seems like every time you follow the money there's Russian influence. How odd!
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Interesting news breaking about Trump’s head legal fixer - the man who paid Stormy Daniels’s hush money.
https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/05/09/novartis-discloses-it-paid-1-point-2m-to-michael-cohen-firm.html?play=1
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/09/south-korean-firm-that-paid-trump-lawyer-cohen-poised-to-win-pentagon-deal.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/09/att-paid-trump-lawyer-cohen-up-to-6000000.html
See, in banana republics, if you want to get on in business, if you have some big political decision that you want to go your way, you funnel money into the pocket of the head honcho.
This stinks to high heaven of the same thing happening here. Money being paid by huge businesses to someone who a) has the ear of Trump and can “advise” him and b) has been scuttling round the country paying out big bucks to cover Trump’s inability to keep his cock in his trousers.
It’s not even subtle. It’s Goebbels-esque. He said that if you are going to lie, make it a BIG lie and keep hammering it home. You’ll convince enough people to get away with it. Trump is following in those footsteps. Shouting “Drain the Swamp!” At rallies while he is the most debauched, corrupt, amoral pig ever to have his snout in the trough.
And people still buy it! It’s truly terrifying how much some people are prepared to ignore when it goes against what they really want to be true.
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Trump certainly whips up a fervour....
(https://i.imgur.com/bu9rcED.jpg)
What a sad sad country run by a sad sad president.
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Trump has given the next Demacrat candite for President a free run to the White House
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Trump has given the next Demacrat candite for President a free run to the White House
Normally I'd agree, but that's what we said last time!
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You know when Trump says “Make America Great Again”?
You know what other 5 letter word “Great” is an indicator for?
https://mobile.twitter.com/RonaldKlain/status/994807951679508481
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No black people? That's makes for an interesting anagram..!
Trump ban = PT Barnum.
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https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/617252002
Words. Fail.
Just sit back for a moment.
This is the Leader of the Free World, the President of a country built on mass immigration, speaking about human beings and saying “These aren’t people. They are animals.”
You know what this leads to once you start labelling groups of people as sub-human. Untermensch.
Anyone. ANYONE who finds reasons to justify what this man says needs to spend an hour looking at themselves in the mirror. And asking themselves where their values are.
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Was he referring to the good immigrants or the so-called MS-13 murdering, drug dealing rapists?
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https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/617252002
Words. Fail.
Just sit back for a moment.
This is the Leader of the Free World, the President of a country built on mass immigration, speaking about human beings and saying “These aren’t people. They are animals.”
You know what this leads to once you start labelling groups of people as sub-human. Untermensch.
Anyone. ANYONE who finds reasons to justify what this man says needs to spend an hour looking at themselves in the mirror. And asking themselves where their values are.
Think you have misquoted the 'Buffon' on that one Billy!
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Even for Trump that is shocking. Families fleeing the cartel, who have a choice of moving to America or being murdered, are animals.
We saw it with the migrants drowning in the Med not too long back. Katie Hopkins called them "cockroaches" and the right-wingers went along with it. It's a mandate for murder, now being espoused by the leader of the free world. This is where years of fearmongering leads you.
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BB
Why not read the article? It’s all there.
He was referring to undocumented immigrants. I’m sure some of them are murders and rapists. But he wasn’t differentiating.
That is precisely how demagogues work. They play on the (justified) worries that people have about bad “others” to label ALL “others” as bad.
I’m sure there were some extremely evil Jewish people in Germany in 1935.
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BST
I've read the article and in his own un-pc way he did discriminate between them and the immigrants that are good people.
everybody knows by now that PC'ness is not one of his strong points.
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BB
No. He didn’t differentiate. If YOU are reading differentiation into his words then good for you. But others won’t. They’ll read what he actually said.
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Others like you won't. Those like me will.
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I think you’re missing the lesson of history here B.B.
Bad things don’t start because of someone saying “Let’s do really bad things” and everyone joining in.
They start because evil people aren’t believed when they say really bad things. Because right-thinking people excuse it. Or rationalise it. Or don’t believe it and cut them some slack. And then, over time, the bad things get normalised.
Godwin’s Law. When Hitler became Chancellor, the majority of right thinking Germans didn’t believe he was going to do half the things he said. He didn’t start gassing Jews immediately. He started off by repeatedly calling them (ALL of them) a menace. He called them enemies. He called them sub-human. And over time, it became normalised. And then when he started putting his plans into practice, bit by bit, it seemed like an acceptable thing to do.
If right thinking people like you think that it’s OK for Trump to call an entire bunch of people “animals” and “not people”, because YOU think he doesn’t mean what he says then you’re on the first step on that road. Not deliberately, but you’re on it anyway.
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Aye and anyone who disagrees gets branded a namby pamby lily livered do gooder. :laugh:
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Spot on that BST. As you've already brought up Godwin's Law:
The regime in Nazi Germany was without doubt an evil regime. But was everyone living in Germany really that evil? They can't have been. After WWII, Germany rebuilt and are one of our biggest trading partners now, and a fair few of the people who lived during that regime are still alive. They're ordinary people. Were the soldiers working in the concentration camps any more good or evil than our soldiers? Were they any more good or evil than any of us posting on here? I don't think so on the whole. Yet under those circumstances, ordinary people were perfectly willing to send thousands of men, women and children to their deaths. To rip gold teeth out of dead people's heads, and kick the bodies into an oven. Ordinary people - some of whom are still alive today, no doubt - did that. That kind of thing doesn't just happen, it takes years of conditioning for normal folk like anyone posting on here to behave like that.
As BST says, this is the first step on that road. You take a grain of something - a news report of an illegal immigrant murdering somebody, for example - and you focus your message on that. Before long, the issue moves from that one stat or news story into more general terms. Then all illegal immigrants murder people. Then as you hammer home the message more and more, it changes again. Then it's all immigrants who murder people. Then it's anyone from the Commonwealth. Then it's anyone of a different race, or religion. By that point, you've made those people into something less than human. They're "animals" and "cockroaches", so you can do what you like with them.
This isn't just some liberal lefty PC brigade thing, this is properly scary stuff.
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MM
Bang on. When Hitler became Chancellor, the political establishment thought that he’d been run thumping about Jews as an electoral strategy. They thought that he didn’t really mean it, but he’d just used that to gain support because the German people were suffering and they wanted someone to point the finger at. They thought that they could harness that and control it.
They had no idea that he was normalising hatred and that it would lead to Dachau and Auscwitz.
History goes in cycles. We forget that these things can happen. We think there was something uniquely evil about Hitler and the German people. We assume that we are better and smarter. Give it enough time and we assume that we’ve become too civilised to make the same mistakes. And so America ends up electing a nasty, venal, corrupt, hateful man. And when he says dangerously hateful things, people find ways to justify it. And the whole cycle potentially starts again.
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BST. Why is Godwin's Law so maligned and ridiculed when anybody else uses it apart from you?
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BB
I didn’t know it was. I don’t remember ever maligning it. Maybe you should ask folk who do.
Have you ever read Don Quixote?
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Well, I was of the understanding that its use was considered to be a desperate measure to avoid conceding the argument.
Regarding Don Quixote, Don't tell me - You base yourself on him?
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No. It is a witty observation that as the length of an Internet discussion extends to infinity, the probability of someone mentioning Hitler tends towards 1.
It was originally observed because people who were getting exasperated with someone else’s argument would say “you’re just like Hitler/Nazis/fascists.”
Thing is, sometimes there are very good reasons for mentioning Hitler in a discussion. Like, for example, when a nasty and amoral world leader has just branded a whole group of people “sub-human”. Pointing out the parallels with Hitler seem blindingly obvious to me in those circumstances.
I mentioned Godwin as a moment of self-deprecation. I thought that was obvious too, but clearly not.
As far as Don Quixote is concerned, you seem to end up tilting at windmills every time outlr paths cross. I assumed you were a fan.
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If what you said was true that Trump branded a whole group of people "sub-human" then I'd agree with you, but if he was referring to MS-13, murdering drug dealing rapists, as I believe he was, I don't!
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Looks like he has won another one, last Friday, the U.S.A. suspended a threat of punitive tariffs imposed on goods from China, thus avoiding the threat of a trade war at the moment, when China agreed to import £148 billion of American goods to reduce the imbalance on imported values of goods.
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Selby
There’s only been one source for that claim that China has agreed to buy $200bn more of American goods. That’s from the Trump administration.
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/05/20/us/politics/mnuchin-kudlow-china-trade.html#click=https://t.co/nL63oX3oTR
“And while Trump administration officials said last week that China was prepared to increase its purchases of American products by $200 billion by 2020, Chinese officials had pushed back on that claim, and the joint statement the two sides released lacked any such dollar figure.
“Mr. Kudlow had told reporters outside of the White House on Friday that the Chinese had offered at least $200 billion in new purchases of American goods. On Sunday, he walked that back.
“Maybe I got ahead of the curve but the number 200 billion deficit reduction, which is something the president likes, has been around by all the people on both sides,” he said. “But it’s too soon to lock that in.””
One day it’ll sink in. If it comes out of the mouth of Trump or one of his lackeys (especially one with a track record like Larry Kudlow’s) it’s a fair bet that it’s a lie.
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Billy the Dow up 300 points, the guys with the bucks like it, and so do I, a nice little scalp betting long.
Yep I have poor taste. I will leave the rights and wrongs in the world to other people.
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Stock markets are up all over the world. The world’s stock markets have been going through a mini boom over the past 2 years. Including the Italian Borsa which is up nearly 60% on where it was in summer 2016. Stock market performance is rarely correlated with the real economy. So the Dow going up means nothing whatsoever about Trump’s policies (not least because he’s barely passed a policy yet, such has been his historic inability to work with Congress).
But that’s an easy mistake to make. It’s your last sentence that real worries me.
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Oh yeah. But Trump has just suspended his trade war with China. A few days after this news.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-emoluments-clause-indonesia-project-500-million-china-golf-course-norm-eisen-a8353296.html%3famp
Surely that’s a coincidence, no? Or maybe we just shouldn’t worry about the rights and wrongs,eh?
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Billy, it is up because it was on the floor, much like others in Europe at the time.
The bond market, a much more defined market is still having a hard time, the big boys with £millions to invest are not going to invest at 0.27% for two year bonds, and their 10yr bonds are still behind the US. A better indicator of how they are doing.
Having said that I expect the new coalition government to pull back on some of their more extreme statements as time goes on, but a place I don't touch with any investment.
The level of unsecured debt is significant, and should be a worry to everyone in the Euro area.
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Talking of investments, I remember the experts telling us at the time of the brexit vote that the stock market would go through the floor, at the time I was worried and nearly pulled my investments out, glad I did n't now as my investment has grown by 30% since the brexit vote
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Filo, much the same here with my real shares, I have limited my day trading to just a few stocks that I think I can trust my judgment, keep to tight limits setting stops, and don't try to get too greedy, and don't get in too deep.
I had some torrid times getting into this type of trading losing on a regular basis, but stuck at it and latched on to a couple of great traders who took me through the ropes.
I just make a few bob, and don't get in over my head, gambling with their money if possible, I have bad days and would not recommend anyone to just get into it without a lot of time, and willpower to know when to get out, and trade on a couple of fantasy forums for a couple of years before taking the plunge.
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Filo, much the same here with my real shares, I have limited my day trading to just a few stocks that I think I can trust my judgment, keep to tight limits setting stops, and don't try to get too greedy, and don't get in too deep.
I had some torrid times getting into this type of trading losing on a regular basis, but stuck at it and latched on to a couple of great traders who took me through the ropes.
I just make a few bob, and don't get in over my head, gambling with their money if possible, I have bad days and would not recommend anyone to just get into it without a lot of time, and willpower to know when to get out, and trade on a couple of fantasy forums for a couple of years before taking the plunge.
Not even in it that deep mate, just got mine in medium risk stocks and shares ISA
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Filo
I don’t recall anyone predicting a Stock Market crash. The point about Brexit is that it will lead to a long, slow decline relative to the rest of the world.
On which note...
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/d44966ce-1c97-11e8-aaca-4574d7dabfb6
Just realised that’s behind a paywall. Here’s a shameless rip off of it.
https://www.ozy.com/acumen/global-investors-shun-uk-stock-market/85322
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Good move that Filo, but still watch the trends, there will come another time when it will be the best to cash out, and if possible get back in when they hit something like a bottom.
Best of luck to you, it is far better than just leaving it in a bank losing money.
I can never understand why there is nothing said about banks paying a higher % in dividends than interest on deposits.
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Stock markets aren't always connected to the health of an economy. Usually they are, but the stock market can adapt and recover after extraordinary events like Brexit. They're always looking forward, so naturally if an economy is stagnant the markets will rise eventually as the stock markets recover what they lost. Also they generally aren't tied to wages, so I'm not sure making a few extra quid on stocks in the short-term will help your kids out when their wages are still stagnant and they end up provably poorer, year after year, than they would have been.
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Macho, don't give me how poor kids are now. They will have to grow some, get on with life, and do what previous generations have done, get over problems,look to the future and flourish.
Imagine being 18yrs old in 1914 or 1939, they don't know how lucky they are.
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There speaks a member of the most selfish generation in history. The Baby Boomers have had it all, pulled the ladder up behind them and told the younger generation to grow a pair and get on with life.
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BST is spot on there. I'm a millennial, so I get a bit pissed off at boomers who had the chance to buy a house, who reaped all the benefits of postwar socialist policies, who lived in towns like Mexborough when they had thriving industries and lots of jobs, who could go to university without being hammered with debt, who had a decent amount of help and welfare when they needed it, had high potential for social mobility to move up in life... who then turn around and say kids today have it easy. Sure thing mate. Tell that to the kids in Denaby who might well be bright, but get crammed through the school system on a shoestring, into a zero hours contract, because asking for support makes them benefit cheats and scroungers. Personal responsibility is important but it only gets you so far. God knows what would've happened if this government was in power during wartime.
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BST is spot on there. I'm a millennial, so I get a bit pissed off at boomers who had the chance to buy a house, who reaped all the benefits of postwar socialist policies, who lived in towns like Mexborough when they had thriving industries and lots of jobs, who could go to university without being hammered with debt, who had a decent amount of help and welfare when they needed it, had high potential for social mobility to move up in life... who then turn around and say kids today have it easy. Sure thing mate. Tell that to the kids in Denaby who might well be bright, but get crammed through the school system on a shoestring, into a zero hours contract, because asking for support makes them benefit cheats and scroungers. Personal responsibility is important but it only gets you so far. God knows what would've happened if this government was in power during wartime.
Oh woe is me
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Yes the generation that paid 14% for houses, didn't get a vote on the Lisbon Treaty, or the Maastricht treaty, and were sold down the river.
Worst thing we did was have a shag, and come up with a lot of moaning entitled sprogs wanting everything given, made our arms ache when they were young, and our hearts ache when they got older.
We even made the exams easy, and they are still stressed out, and what jobs there are in Mexborough are most likely filled with foreign labour because they get up in a morning, dont moan, and have got some balls, while you lot look for your next fix.
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Shitting on an awful lot of British citizens there Selby. Why can't you stop talking the country down? Are you anti-British? etc etc
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Yes the generation that paid 14% for houses, didn't get a vote on the Lisbon Treaty, or the Maastricht treaty, and were sold down the river.
Worst thing we did was have a shag, and come up with a lot of moaning entitled sprogs wanting everything given, made our arms ache when they were young, and our hearts ache when they got older.
We even made the exams easy, and they are still stressed out, and what jobs there are in Mexborough are most likely filled with foreign labour because they get up in a morning, dont moan, and have got some balls, while you lot look for your next fix.
Thats a tad unfair
I assume you mean you paid 14% interest on you mortgage? Probly nothing really on your mortgage as it was before the property boom.
No one else got a vote on the two treaty's either, instead you got a vote to take us into the Common Market.
A big majority of your generation were able to retire between 50 and 55, making big holes in Pension funds, ensuring later generations will never have that luxury.
I wish I was 18 in 1960 rather than 1981
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That’s about it Filo.
Affordable houses. Decent pensions with early retirement for many. Free University education. The most peaceful era in history. A socio-political scenario where wealth was shared much more equitably than ever before. The luckiest generation in history.
And then when it all ran into the buffers, it’s that generation that has consistently voted to take all those things away from the people who are now coming to maturity. Culminating with the 65+ voters being the ones who have tipped us out of the EU and into a permanently poorer future.
Grand, eh?
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Whoa there buddy, at 71 yrs old I am still paying higher rate of tax, plus quite a bit of stamp duty a year and the top range of council tax, and did not vote to come out of the EU.
Don't bite the hand that feeds you, we contribute to the housing benefit and child allowance you sprogs claim as well.
And Macho if this government, with your generations backing, ever went to war with anyone of substance, we would lose.
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Here's the thing. Nobody's saying you don't work hard for what you get. Nobody's saying you don't deserve any of it. You absolutely do, as does every boomer who was lucky enough to get on the property ladder and raise a family. But the difference is you were far more likely to have your efforts rewarded than the kids of today are. Just assuming that people have gotten lazier is ridiculous. Look at the facts. Don't assume that just because you made it 50 years ago, the kids of today will be given the same opportunities you were given. If everyone always thought that way, we'd still be living in caves.
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MM
Bang on. No-one resents the benefits that the Baby Boomer generation had. They were the product of a society that emerged out of WWII realising that we’re really were all in it together and that the way for society to progress was for everyone to have a fair share.
I was born at the very end of that era, as we were chucking that idea aside and starting to lose sight of the importance of equality of chance. I was lucky enough to be paid to go to University and to be able to buy my first house before prices went berserk. (And having bought my first house at the very height of the interest rate spike in 1992, I can say that anyone who was paying 14% interest wasn’t managing their financial affairs very sensibly - and even if they were paying that rate, wages were also rising rapidly to water down the debt).
What pisses me off is that that generation has collectively closed its eyes to what it has bequeathed to the younger generations. The idea that they were somehow better, more sensible, harder working and more deserving than the generations behind them is, frankly, obscene and ignorant. And wilfully ignoring the fact that the opportunities and protection that they enjoyed have been removed from the younger generations is disgraceful.
I teach young people. They are incomparably harder working, better educated and better organised than my generation were. I employ young people. The same goes for them. It sickens me that these people are maturing in a society that doesn’t say “work hard and you’ll be rewarded” like the one I grew up in. It says, “ work hard and you might just about scrape through, but you’ll have none of the benefits that your parents’ and grandparents’ generations had. You’ll be saddled with debt for daring to get an education. You’ll not be able to afford to buy a house. You’ll have pitifully poor pensions. And if you drop through the cracks, you can f**k off.”
It’ll change. The younger generation will require it. But it’ll probably need the luckiest and most selfish generation in history to die off first.
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You definitely live in a blame culture there then Billy, it must be hell waking up in a morning then.
Not all people are the same, most of the youngsters I have come across are great, and I do mingle some of my time with youngsters, especially in sports, football and cricket.
Houses are out of reach, Thatchers policy of selling council houses saw to that, and estate agents and solicitors going from fixed commision to a percentage fee has done the rest. They gave themselves a up to 10% rise a year for years, raising house prices and land prices. I would hazard a guess that the materials to build a house from scratch is not much more than it was in the 1960's relatively, and the labour costs somewhere near the same or even lower.
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Selby
I wasn’t aiming anything at you personally (although having sent your post at 5pm yesterday starting this off, it’s a bit rich complaining about reactions to it.)
I’m sure you’re really an enlightened person whose heart bleeds at the economic situation the younger generation is in. But the FACT is that it is your generation that has consistently voted for parties who have enacted policies that have pulled the rug out from the younger generation. There’s no argument about that. It’s a fact. It was the pensioner vote that put the stories in power in 2010. And the Austerity policies that they enacted have massively disproportionately hit the young and protected the old. Again, no argument on that. It’s an established fact.
It’s your generation that overwhelmingly voted for Brexit, and for the most part won’t live to see the full extent of he problems that will lead to.
It’s now pretty well established that the Millennials will be the first generation in over a century who will grow up poorer than their parents and grandparents. That’s the result of the selfish decisions that your generation (collectively) have made.
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For the record Billy I have never voted anything else but Labour in my life, but feel let down by every government that have been in power since I had a vote at 21yrs old.
Once in the 70,s I voted for the rates association in the local elections, as I was living in Norton near Doncaster, the then highest rated place in England except for Westminster and the Doncaster ward has always been labour.
When the few local rates councilors were elected they had no places on the committees so were unable to put forward their cost saving ideas, and the major parties stopped them getting a hold.
That was the only time I thought that the big parties would be challenged.
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Selby. As I said, my comments are about your generation as a whole, not you personally.
And I agree that Labour under Blair are as much to blame for this situation as the Tories. They were the ones who were “intensely relaxed” about a few people getting fabulously rich, but they took their eye off the fact that they were getting rich at the expense of everyone else - not pulling everyone else up with them. What the Tories have done though, is to deliberately protect your generation while throwing the shit deal at the young. That is disgraceful and deliberate politics because they know that pensioners are the only group who disproportionately vote Tory.
It’ll change. Eventually.
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Billy, I also have never voted Tory in my life. I think that you are possibly generalising a little too much. The retired generation or at least a good percentage did at least bother to turn out and vote though.
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Idler.
You are focussing on the particular (you).
I’m focussing on the general (the general behaviour of pensioners as a whole).
It’s unarguable that, in general, pensioners were by far the biggest supporters of Brexit and are the the group who disproportionally support the Tories. Look at the results from the most recent opinion poll (page 1, first few rows here. https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/8vbs3n6auc/TimesResults_180521_VI_Trackers.pdf ).
YOU might not do, but that puts you in a minority of the people of your age.
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Of course you are right on a national level BST, but I can confirm that Idler is not in a minority of one on the confines of this board. To say I am disappointed in the older generation re Brexit would be an understatement of colossal proportions, considering I left nearly 40 years of living in The Netherlands, working in International organisations, and now have moved unwittingly to the front line of the post brexit world.
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I sometimes wonder if we are living in some kind of Monty Python sketch with Trump, he's now accused the Canadian bloke, meek and a lier after agreeing a statement by the G7, only to show total cowardice and jump on Airforce 1 and then issue a statement saying he's withdrawing from the statement, he could n't say it face to face, how can anyone negotiate with the idiot?
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Filo, he is the ultimate American industrialist, he will negotiate with you if you have something he wants only, if he has the something you want, he will rob your eyes out before you get it.
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Some people have been suggesting that it's not because of Trudeau he's spat the dummy out, but because of this photo being spread on social media...
https://qz.com/1301625/trump-vs-the-whole-world-is-perfectly-captured-by-this-photo-of-world-leaders/
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Some people have been suggesting that it's not because of Trudeau he's spat the dummy out, but because of this photo being spread on social media...
https://qz.com/1301625/trump-vs-the-whole-world-is-perfectly-captured-by-this-photo-of-world-leaders/
Looks like hes getting a right bollocking from Merkel, sat there like a blubbering child
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Some people have been suggesting that it's not because of Trudeau he's spat the dummy out, but because of this photo being spread on social media...
https://qz.com/1301625/trump-vs-the-whole-world-is-perfectly-captured-by-this-photo-of-world-leaders/
Looks like hes getting a right bollocking from Merkel, sat there like a blubbering child
Which is exactly why he's supposed to have taken against it. Christ knows what the North Koreans make of it.
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I remember thinking when Trump was elected that it might be alright if he just surrounds himself with grown-ups.
This guy is one of his top economics advisers.
https://mobile.twitter.com/mathieuvonrohr/status/1005827317007036417/video/1
Jesus. f**king. Wept.
Canada is the USA’s closest ally and biggest trading partner. Trudeau did NOTHING in his press conference other than say that Canada has the right to stand up for itself if the USA imposed tariffs on Canadian goods.
And THAT is the response? A special place in Hell? Trump showed Trudeau “courtesy” by deigning to attend a G7 meeting? The meeting came up with a “socialist” communique? (Socialist? May? Merkel? Abe? f**k me, what does that make Corbyn then?)
Let’s get this right. Trump will have thrown a f**king fit on Air Force One when those photos of him at the meeting came out. He’ll have told his advisers to go out throwing punches. And sometimes, yes, you do want to posture aggressively in international affairs. But this is about one thing only. Trump’s pride. There’s a man-child with a paper-thin ego in the White House. It is terrifying.
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As Trump goes into a meeting with Kim to discuss nuclear weapons, it’s worth noting that the only two atom bombs ever used in anger were called “Fat Man” and “Little Boy.”
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Amazing all the pomp and circumstance that's gone into this meeting, for what basically seems to amount to a pinky swear. We've been here before with North Korea, though.
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Amazing all the pomp and circumstance that's gone into this meeting, for what basically seems to amount to a pinky swear. We've been here before with North Korea, though.
Theres time for Trump to jump on Airforce One, and go into a twitter rant telling Kim to f**k off yet
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Well, that's Kim pulled into line by the looks of it, now for the noisy neighbours and them pesky Europeans.
Where's that peace award?
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Well, that's Kim pulled into line by the looks of it, now for the noisy neighbours and them pesky Europeans.
Where's that peace award?
I know you're fishing, but I'm bored so I'll bite. The wording of the agreement is very vague and doesn't pin the North Koreans down any more than they already were. They have to commit to "working towards" nuclear disarmament, which is exactly what they're have supposed to have been doing for years anyway. The main difference is concessions from the US side, notably that they won't be running military exercises in the South anymore. So this amazing negotiator actually managed to negotiate himself into a much worse position while not getting a single thing in return - nice one!
Relations with the US are temporarily thawed, which is nice, but really very little was achieved here.
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They might have achieved some nice photos, I think Trump was keen to get some good ones for the holiday album
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Where will that be taken Filo, in Trump's new golf hotel gardens in North Korea.
Give the man credit for trying to do something about a situation other western politicians have let fester and ignored. Iran and Korea built nuclear facilities while people like you fornicated over the last presidents wife while she made pop videos.
That white knight achieved absolutely nothing of substance, just played to the crowd, who gobled everything he said up.
The difference is this guy for all his faults, is a get things done merchant.
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Where will that be taken Filo, in Trump's new golf hotel gardens in North Korea.
Give the man credit for trying to do something about a situation other western politicians have let fester and ignored. Iran and Korea built nuclear facilities while people like you fornicated over the last presidents wife while she made pop videos.
That white knight achieved absolutely nothing of substance, just played to the crowd, who gobled everything he said up.
The difference is this guy for all his faults, is a get things done merchant.
Kim is playing him like a fiddle
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Where will that be taken Filo, in Trump's new golf hotel gardens in North Korea.
Give the man credit for trying to do something about a situation other western politicians have let fester and ignored. Iran and Korea built nuclear facilities while people like you fornicated over the last presidents wife while she made pop videos.
That white knight achieved absolutely nothing of substance, just played to the crowd, who gobled everything he said up.
The difference is this guy for all his faults, is a get things done merchant.
Trump has just torn up the Iran deal which he regularly denounced - it consisted of 110 pages and had detailed arrangements to verify Iran's agreement and is supported by other G7 members.
As Filo said, he's being played.
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achieved absolutely nothing of substance, just played to the crowd, who gobled everything he said up.
Sums Trump up to a T, actually.
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I think you are all seeing what you want to see, and not what is happening.
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I think you are seeing what you want to see, and not what is happening.
Yes you are
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Footage of the cages in which the Trump administration is keeping kids who have been taken from their parents at the border.
https://mobile.twitter.com/DavidBegnaud/status/1008704668816560128/video/1
God al-f**king-mighty.
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And this.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/06/20/politics/immigration-border-separations-tender-age-shelters/index.html
For the avoidance of doubt, when it says that babies and toddlers have been “separated” from their parents, it doesn’t mean they got lost. It means they WERE separated. By border officials. Acting on the instructions of the Administration.
Those of you who normalise or ignore this sort of action. Take a look into your souls.
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It must be bad. Even Theresa May & Gerard Batten have condemned him for it.
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It can happen because he controls all information to his base who unquestioningly believe his outright lies and blame-everyone-else tactics. Very scary. He has the mid-terms as his main goal at the moment, and he is shamefully using children as leverage to fund his Wall. Everything else from trade wars, optimistic claims of North Korea summit, playing tough with 'allies' at G7, leaving UN Human Rights groups etc is spun to his base as making America great again .
As BST has earlier pointed out, Seth Abramson's twitter is a very good read.
https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/1009149094693167106
Also in Abramson's feeds are his analysis of the recent Horowitz report, which Trump falsely claims exonerates him when it never even looked at the Russian connections. The report actually shows there were rogue FBI agents in cohoots with Giuliani in October 2016. These agents threatened leaks of the re-opening of the Hilary email investigation and this was why Comey went against FBI regs to announce this days before the election, thus according to many analysts handing the election to Trump. Giuliani was on air boasting about a 'surprise' a couple of days before Comey's bombshell.
It also seems the Russians were very helpful in finding those new emails........................
Of course no-one in the UK would openly lie about Brexit consquences or be funded by Russians approaching a major national vote...........
Scary times, and a deeply divided and isolated USA.
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Dutch
Abramson is doing an astonishing job. Muller will put together the case on Trump, there’s no doubt about that. But when he does, it’s still up to Congress to act and they will only act if there is a mood in the country to do so. Trump is banking on being able to steamroller his way through this, either by keeping the Republican Congressmen and Senators onside, or in extremis, by sacking Muller. He is bawling out the “No conspiracy - Witch Hunt!” Line every week on Twitter, precisely to convince his base that he is being victimised. So his base pushes the Rep party to back him no matter.
The mainstream media have covered Trump shockingly. They’ve played it as a soap opera and there’s bedn no investigative journalism to inform the public of the extent of his treasonous criminality. Nothing at all to counterbalance Fox News and Trump’s Twitter feed.
Which is where Abramson comes in. As an amateur, he’s been doing what the professional journalists should have been doing. He’s been pulling together the facts, piecing together the story and putting it out there to inform people what the scale of Trump’s criminality is. And now he’s finally getting some traction in the media. So he’s preparing people for the fight that is just around the corner.
If America saves itself from this nightmare, it will be because of Abramson and people like him.
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Well BST, it looks as though your posts on June 20th has had an effect.
Trump obviously reads this forum and has changed the child separation policy.
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Well BST, it looks as though your posts on June 20th has had an effect.
Trump obviously reads this forum and has changed the child separation policy.
Create a problem, solve the problem you've created, then claim it as an achievement.
That's Trump politics in a nutshell.
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https://mobile.twitter.com/mathieuvonrohr/status/1009849442139328512
Well there’s a thing.
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Yes, things are pretty bad here. Andy, Brian and a lot of you have it pretty much spot on. I was hoping that this recent stunt separating the children from their families at the border would start to turn the tide against him. It has to a degree, but we have to keep up the pressure on our lawmakers to stand up to him, as it now turns out his ‘executive order’ was only good for 20 days. He is evil. We also have to change the demographics during the mid term elections, but of course Trump hasn’t looked into the Russian election hacking in any real way as he knows if it still exists it will benefit him. He really is a jack ass in that he is allowing himself to be played and owned by Putin - to the detriment of us and the world. In the meantime he gets emboldened from his perceived victories and sadly I’m not sure there are enough people who see the threat of this presidency yet. It’s an unreal situation and one I would never have seen coming, and all this in six months time.
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Media currently in a frenzy about Melania wearing a jacket that said "I REALLY DON'T CARE. DO U?" on the back, while she was on the way to visit the kids trapped in those detention centres. Can't help but feel like that was bait to distract from the seriousness of the real issue that's going on.
Well BST, it looks as though your posts on June 20th has had an effect.
Trump obviously reads this forum and has changed the child separation policy.
Create a problem, say the Democrats created it, solve the problem you've created, then claim it as an achievement.
That's Trump politics in a nutshell.
Your post was missing an important step.
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With so many controversial issues to speak about several important ones can be temporarily forgotten.
Just for one second, returning to tariffs and escalating trade war, I wonder if there could be more to Trump declaring that Canada and the EU are 'threats to the national security of the USA'. I know that is the only hook he has to levy tariffs from his own Presidential powers, but right there he has declared nearly all of the NATO Alliance members* as threats to his national security. Is he planning to pull the US out of NATO? That would be the ultimate prize for Putin. Trump has complained the US pays 'nearly the entire NATO budget' (actual figure is about 20%, reflecting the relative size of economies).
By the way NATO Article V (attack on one nation is an attack on all NATO member nations, and the cornerstone of NATO) has only ever been triggered once. The irony here is that it was not triggered by a European nation threatened from the east, it was the US itself that triggered it after 9/11. NATO also gave significant assistance to the US after Hurricane Katrina, so the US has also benefitted directly from NATO.
P.S. (* above) Ironically one of the few NATO nations not in the EU is Norway, a country Trump has singled out as a desirable one to have immigrants from. But I am sure he has no idea of which organisations Norway is or is not a member of.
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That will be a fun visit then if May hosts the US president the day after he breaks up NATO!
I cant believe that Trump actually has a plan to pull the US out of NATO, if only because I dont believe that Trump actually has a plan for anything. He seems to make policy up as he goes along.
However he is clearly more interested in pounds, shillings and pence (or dollars and cents) than he is in strategic geo-politics and clearly with the problems the EU countries have with err, US tariffs, migration, the cost of Brexit, they are not going to be increasing their spending because Trump says they have to. I can't imagine it will be a harmonious summit.
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That will be a fun visit then if May hosts the US president the day after he breaks up NATO!
I cant believe that Trump actually has a plan to pull the US out of NATO, if only because I dont believe that Trump actually has a plan for anything. He seems to make policy up as he goes along.
However he is clearly more interested in pounds, shillings and pence (or dollars and cents) than he is in strategic geo-politics and clearly with the problems the EU countries have with err, US tariffs, migration, the cost of Brexit, they are not going to be increasing their spending because Trump says they have to. I can't imagine it will be a harmonious summit.
That's what worries me Wilts. I don't think he will pull the US out, it is just that that would be consistent with things he has said. But then again it would be absolutely stupid to look for any consistency.
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It very much depends on what Putin has on him.
Putin obviously has something enormous on Trump. Because Trump who is famously disengaged about policy detail, pushed through a policy change at the Republican convention in 2016 massively watering down sanctions against Russia over Ukraine. And then, when questioned about why he did it, responded like this (first 45 seconds here).
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VEtEzB3mxT0
That pretty well nails it that Trump WAS involved but doesn’t want to be questioned on it.
The smart money is on Trump having given a soft line to Putin because Putin was offering to pass Hilary Clinton’s stolen e-mails to Wikileaks to win the Election for Trump.
So that’s something reasonably large that Putin has on Trump. Conspiracy to commit treason.
With that hanging over Trump’s head and the rest of his life in jail if it gets out, who knows what he would do to appease Putin?
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https://mobile.twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1010947994596896768
Here’s the endgame coming out of the shadows. This is f**king terrifying.
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That will be a fun visit then if May hosts the US president the day after he breaks up NATO!
I cant believe that Trump actually has a plan to pull the US out of NATO, if only because I dont believe that Trump actually has a plan for anything. He seems to make policy up as he goes along.
However he is clearly more interested in pounds, shillings and pence (or dollars and cents) than he is in strategic geo-politics and clearly with the problems the EU countries have with err, US tariffs, migration, the cost of Brexit, they are not going to be increasing their spending because Trump says they have to. I can't imagine it will be a harmonious summit.
That's what worries me Wilts. I don't think he will pull the US out, it is just that that would be consistent with things he has said. But then again it would be absolutely stupid to look for any consistency.
I notice we signed up to the European Joint Military Intervention Force today Dutch. Do you have any thoughts on that. Can it really operate alongside & outside NATO or is it the beginnings of a Pan-European force to replace it?
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Hi Wilts
It is a few years since I had direct insights into that. But I would think this was years in the planning and thus highly unlikely that it took account of any thoughts of the possibility of the US leaving NATO.
The EU has long wanted its own defence organisation (EDA/EDF) alongside NATO, and NATO would potentially be involved in helping with multi-national interoperability issues - standardisation of planning, procedures, command and control, hardware etc. NATO is the only game in town as far as real experience of multi-national interoperability is concerned and its input and approval for release of the above would be essential for any European Defence Force. IMHO NATO might not be totally happy internally, but would put on a public face of cooperation.
My opinion - no-one is thinking of replacing NATO, especially in a time of increasing threat from the east, but there might be some small operations that a European Force might undertake.
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Sweet f**king Jesus.
https://mobile.twitter.com/JORISLUIJENDIJK/status/1017427050687270912/video/1
That is terrifying. The main is incapable of holding a thought.
Q. “What do you think about Hard Brexit?”
A. “I won the vote in Wisconsin and I’ve got lots of property all over.”
And he’s so irredeemably f**king thick, his claim about Wisconsin and Reagan isn’t even correct.
God
f**king
Help
Us.
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Yep I've been reading the other stuff further up the thread , frankly I'm surprised that we are even entertaining this numbskull and hope that we are now seriously ensuring that the most sensitive Intel is not shared with him or his advisors. Trump quite simply can't be trusted in any way and on any subject.
Brexit was ALWAYS going to weaken the Western Alliance but more than that we have all allowed Putin and his cronies to interfere directly with not only our trade positions as a continent but our very own security by that I mean that of Europe ( EU call it what you will ).
He ( Putin ) is most definitely the puppeteer here and has the destruction of the West, NATO the EU and of course this country firmly targeted, locked on and awaiting the right moment to make his move. We may soon all be left extremely weak and the continent will be at his mercy.
Yet we still insist on sleepwalking over the cliff- edge like out of control and demented mules....stubborn little Britishers that can't see the wood for the trees.
There's far more at stake here than Brexit , for that like the Trump Presidency, Crimea, Eastern Ukraine are only pieces in a jigsaw of a new world map being drawn up in Moscow.
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Wow.
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/07/13/politics/russia-investigation-indictments/index.html
It’s blindingly obvious from the detail that some of the unnamed Americans mentioned in these indictments are Trump campaign big shots.
Roger Stone in particular may feel a net closing in.
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So here’s a thing.
1) The US Department of Justice has just indicted 12 Russian military officers for a range of crimes connected with Trump’s election, including illegally hacking Clinton’s e-mails and passing them to Wikileaks. It is beyond credulity that the Russian military would have done this without the Kremlin’s blessing. The implication is clear that Putin has criminally interfered with the US democratic process.
2) The DoJ informed Trump of these impending indictments earlier in the week...
3...but Trump then went out and announced in a speech that Putin is fine and is not an enemy, and...
4...When Trump leaves the UK, he’s going to Helsinki for a summit with Putin, where he plans to meet in secret, with only interpreters and no officials present.
f**k me. The biggest criminal in US history. Hiding there in plain sight.
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Well BST, it looks as though your posts on June 20th has had an effect.
Trump obviously reads this forum and has changed the child separation policy.
Create a problem, solve the problem you've created, then claim it as an achievement.
That's Trump politics in a nutshell.
Munchausen condition ( MAW ) perhaps ?
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Wow.
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/07/13/politics/russia-investigation-indictments/index.html
It’s blindingly obvious from the detail that some of the unnamed Americans mentioned in these indictments are Trump campaign big shots.
Roger Stone in particular may feel a net closing in.
Wow indeed , it certainly takes some wading through. This Mueller investigation is nothing but extremely thorough and that net is definitely going to catch the boys involved .
If you were to attempt to write a cold war novel - ones imagination could never come up with anything even approaching this.
I'm surprised that the Helsinki meeting is still going ahead in light of these revelations .
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f**k me. The biggest criminal in US history. Hiding there in plain sight.
Trump might be on a shortlist of 1 for worst US president in history but biggest criminal? They did start a civil war that saw the death of over half a million people and Richard Nixon who killed a lot more you know!
I do worry what he may agree to with Putin as regards NATO. It's still unclear as to what he agreed last week (did he really say he would pull the US out in January 2019 if spending wasn't increased to 4% of GDP!) and he was quick to stop the exercises in Korea during the talks with Kim.
Maybe he will stay in Scotland as he appears to like it. Seeing as how he has declared it's not in the UK anymore!
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I’m not aware of any previous US president or person having engaged in a conspiracy with a hostile state to pervert the democratic process. That takes some beating as a crime.
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I’m not aware of any previous US president or person having engaged in a conspiracy with a hostile state to pervert the democratic process. That takes some beating as a crime.
You don't know what Nixon did to win the 1968 election then!
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Well this is getting interesting.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44852812
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Well this is getting interesting.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44852812
He's mad,he's had a go at every ally of America, NATO included and today sucks Putins cock!
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Wonder why...
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What I find incredible is that most sensible people could surely see during the election campaign that this guy wasn't fit for this office.
Granted, it would have been difficult to imagine just how outrageous and downright dangerous he would turn out to be, but the seeds were there for all to see.
How the hell did he fool so many voters into electing him?
I've always been slightly troubled by the Presidential election process in the US; there was always the potential for some unsuitable individual to make it into the White House.
But Trump is on another level entirely.
The most powerful politician in the world.....it is nothing less than terrifying.
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Kim Jung Trump!
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What I find incredible is that most sensible people could surely see during the election campaign that this guy wasn't fit for this office.
Granted, it would have been difficult to imagine just how outrageous and downright dangerous he would turn out to be, but the seeds were there for all to see.
How the hell did he fool so many voters into electing him?
I've always been slightly troubled by the Presidential election process in the US; there was always the potential for some unsuitable individual to make it into the White House.
But Trump is on another level entirely.
The most powerful politician in the world.....it is nothing less than terrifying.
Ever been to middle America? They're more inbred than folks from Barnsley!
America, the only country to go from a period of barbarism to a period of decadence without an intervening period of culture!
https://www.thedailybeast.com/shame-them-everyone-who-endorsed-arming-preschoolers-on-sacha-baron-cohens-who-is-america?ref=scroll
Yep, let's arm 4 year olds! Only in America!
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This is beyond belief.
https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/donald-trump-s-turnberry-firm-paid-50-000-by-us-government-for-weekend-visit-1-4770069/amp?__twitter_impression=true
Corruption, not even hidden. How do we roll back from this now that it’s normalised?
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https://news.sky.com/story/trump-to-invite-putin-to-white-house-in-autumn-11442704
Jesus wept.
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https://news.sky.com/story/trump-to-invite-putin-to-white-house-in-autumn-11442704
Jesus wept.
How else is Vlad going to measure up for curtains? :lol:
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Quote from a currently serving US Ambassador today, after seeing Trump’s arselicking of Putin. M
“Either Putin has something serious on Trump, or Trump’s just a craven coward.”
Or both, of course.
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When Putin visits his buddy in the autumn i wonder if they could be convinced a open car drive through Dallas would be nice?
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Trump lashing out at the Federal Reserve now for raising interest rates. Which they're only doing because of Trump's tax cut. MAGA!
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https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1020642287725043712
Fee fie fo fum
I smell the whiff of a twitchy bum.
The Leader of the Free World saying it’s inconceivable that the police should raid the premises of someone suspected of being complicit in illegal activity.
The Leader of the Free World saying it’s even more inconceivable (although I’m struggle to imagine what could be more inconceivable than inconceivable, but there you go) that someone who is about to be instructed by his boss to commit a major crime should take out the insurance policy of recording the meeting.
Net closing on Donald. It’ll be the ultimate irony if he is brought down, not because of treason (which he is undoubtedly guilty of) but because he couldn’t keep his cock in his pants, then broke the law in paying women hush money during the election campaign.
EDIT.
And more to the point, if he can effectively be hustled by porn models, imagine what a trained KGB officer could do to him.
In fact, don’t imagine it. You don’t need to. Just watch Trump’s bizarre behaviour earlier this week, while he was meeting with Putin.
I always used to think that democracy was strong and that chancers and frauds and criminals would be exposed and seen through before they got close to power. But we’ve got criminals and chancers and frauds calling the shots on both sides of the pond. Just shows you how fragile democracy really is when people start closing their ears and eyes to inconvenient facts.
Worrying times.
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https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1020642287725043712
Fee fie fo fum
I smell the whiff of a twitchy bum.
The Leader of the Free World saying it’s inconceivable that the police should raid the premises of someone suspected of being complicit in illegal activity.
The Leader of the Free World saying it’s even more inconceivable (although I’m struggle to imagine what could be more inconceivable than inconceivable, but there you go) that someone who is about to be instructed by his boss to commit a major crime should take out the insurance policy of recording the meeting.
Net closing on Donald. It’ll be the ultimate irony if he is brought down, not because of treason (which he is undoubtedly guilty of) but because he couldn’t keep his cock in his pants, then broke the law in paying women hush money during the election campaign.
EDIT.
And more to the point, if he can effectively be hustled by porn models, imagine what a trained KGB officer could do to him.
In fact, don’t imagine it. You don’t need to. Just watch Trump’s bizarre behaviour earlier this week, while he was meeting with Putin.
I always used to think that democracy was strong and that chancers and frauds and criminals would be exposed and seen through before they got close to power. But we’ve got criminals and chancers and frauds calling the shots on both sides of the pond. Just shows you how fragile democracy really is when people start closing their ears and eyes to inconvenient facts.
Worrying times.
Time is short for the nation's favourite POTUS , infamy , infamy .....they've got it..... in fa'me.
They are closing in , now I bet he is beginning to have those sleepless nights . The ones that make you mix up your words such that they become double negatives as soon as they slip through his teeth .
Is it WOULD or WOULDN'T , who can tell anymore in Donald's dystopian world ?
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I’ve heard some cringingly embarrassing shite pass politcians’ mouths in my time, but that “would” “wouldn’t” stuff from Trump this week takes the biscuit. What an embarrassment to the office of Kennedy and Roosevelt and Lincoln and Washington.
Agree with them or not, they were men who steered the USA through the most dangerous of times and they did so with clarity of vision and bravery of decision.
This excuse for a man stands in front of his handler this week and cravenly says he doesn’t believe that Russia would launch cyber warfare against the USA. Then when he’s safely 5000 miles away from him, he reverses his assessment.
More backbone in a jellyfish. More strength of personality in a bacterium. More bravery in Harry Forrester. The damage he is doing to America is incalculable.
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I’ve heard some cringingly embarrassing shite pass politcians’ mouths in my time, but that “would” “wouldn’t” stuff from Trump this week takes the biscuit. What an embarrassment to the office of Kennedy and Roosevelt and Lincoln and Washington.
Agree with them or not, they were men who steered the USA through the most dangerous of times and they did so with clarity of vision and bravery of decision.
This excuse for a man stands in front of his handler this week and cravenly says he doesn’t believe that Russia would launch cyber warfare against the USA. Then when he’s safely 5000 miles away from him, he reverses his assessment.
More backbone in a jellyfish. More strength of personality in a bacterium. More bravery in Harry Forrester. The damage he is doing to America is incalculable.
I agreed with everything even the " Harry Forrester " remark - they might just as well do a raffle for the next Presidency .
He should be a national embarrassment after that attempt at diplomacy but in Trump's dystopian world there are many that would still argue that it was still a triumph.
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Ouch!
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/27/robert-mueller-trump-jr-picture-dca-airport-745144
The criminal son of a criminal President and the man who is going to send the pair of them to prison. On the same flight. That must have been a tad uncomfortable.
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It's going to be an interesting couple of months on both sides of the Atlantic.
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Seth Abramson is on course for becoming a true all-time American hero.
Here he is coldly, calmly, clinically and technically setting out why the prosecutors will have Trump’s orange b*llocks on a plate for conspiring with Russia to commit what was effectively treason.
https://mobile.twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/1023224427956396034
This is how democracy works. People like Abramson are the ones who stop the self-serving criminals from f**king us all over.
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Seth Abramson is on course for becoming a true all-time American hero.
Here he is coldly, calmly, clinically and technically setting out why the prosecutors will have Trump’s orange b*llocks on a plate for conspiring with Russia to commit what was effectively treason.
https://mobile.twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/1023224427956396034
This is how democracy works. People like Abramson are the ones who stop the self-serving criminals from f**king us all over.
Thanks for that BST following Abramson's logic was thought provoking and its hard to see any point in that sequence that could be argued withbat any stage. Must admit I had to stop and work it out on occasions.
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The condensed story is:
1) June 2016, in the middle of the Presidential campaign Trump Jr was contacted by a go-between who wanted to set up a meeting with Russian operatives who could offer Clinton’s (illegally) hacked e-mails.
2) Jr jumped at the chance and had a meeting with the Russians. In Trump Tower NY...
3) Jr later claimed nothing was offered.
4) Trump Snr claimed he knew nothing about this.
5) Abramson is pointing out how implausible this is: Snr is a control freak who was in an office 20 yards from this meeting and who has a track record of listening in to meetings in his own offices.
6) Immediately after the meeting, Jr made it received three phone calls from a number that he claims was blocked
7) When asked under oath if his father’s number shows up as “blocked” on his phone, Jr replied “I don’t know”. That’s HIS OWN FATHER’s number...
8) A couple of weeks later, Wikileaks released these hacked e-mails. There was nothing in them but the whole furore dominated the rest of the campaign.
9) A few days after that, Trump went on TV saying “Russia - if you are listening, can you release the rest of the Clinton e-mails?”
10) Cohen, Trump’s solicitor, is now on recird saying Snr knew all about the meeting.
11) Snr says Cohen is lying. Abramson is setting out in some detail why Cohen has no incentive to lie to the FBI about this. Because he’s facing a very long prison sentence already, and can only extricate himself by being truthful. If he lies to them about this, he’s going down for even longer.
It’s there in black and white. Very strong evidence of a conspiracy with a hostile foreign power to tip the 2016 election. That is why Trump is maniacally lashing out on Twitter every week about the inquiry. Because he knows that if he doesn’t kill the inquiry, he’s facing the rest of his days in prison.
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Does treason carry the death penalty in the USA?
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I'm not sure that could happen even if it was to a POTUS - Civil War 2 would break out. Lol
Hmm seems it is
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Realistically, it probably wouldn't happen to a POTUS you're right. And I don't support the death penalty, was just interested if it could actually happen to a man who probably does...
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That is the concern. There's 35-40% of people in the States who seem prepared to accept anything Trump does because...well, he's not a Democrat. So it doesn't matter what evidence is put before them. They won't accept anything coming from people who disagree with them. Sound familiar?
Trump himself has said that he could go out onto Fifth Avenue and shoot someone and he still wouldn't lose their support. I'm not convinced he won't do something even worse when the net really closes in. There's a story that in the run up to his resignation, Nixon was so unhinged by the stress of being caught that the Defense Secretary contacted the heads of the nuclear missile and bomber command and told them that if they were contacted by Nixon, they were to immediately speak to the Defense Secretary before they took any instructions.
There's a similar rumour doing the rounds that the current Defense Secretary, National Security Secretary and Secretary of State have an agreement that at least one of them will always be in Washington and within panic-distance of the White House.
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Right. This is how serious it is for Trump now. He's sent out his attack dog and current solicitor, Rudi Giuliani to waffle and bullshit on his behalf.
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/07/30/politics/rudy-giuliani-collusion-crime-cnntv/index.html
In a nutshell, Giuliani's "defence" seems to be:
1) Collusion with Russia isn't a crime (Plot spoiler - it is! An extremely serious one).
2) Trump wasn't "physically" in the meeting (see Abramson's comments on Trump having a habit of listening in via phone).
If that's the best they can do for a defence, The net closing. Possibly very rapidly.
The condensed story is:
1) June 2016, in the middle of the Presidential campaign Trump Jr was contacted by a go-between who wanted to set up a meeting with Russian operatives who could offer Clinton’s (illegally) hacked e-mails.
2) Jr jumped at the chance and had a meeting with the Russians. In Trump Tower NY...
3) Jr later claimed nothing was offered.
4) Trump Snr claimed he knew nothing about this.
5) Abramson is pointing out how implausible this is: Snr is a control freak who was in an office 20 yards from this meeting and who has a track record of listening in to meetings in his own offices.
6) Immediately after the meeting, Jr made it received three phone calls from a number that he claims was blocked
7) When asked under oath if his father’s number shows up as “blocked” on his phone, Jr replied “I don’t know”. That’s HIS OWN FATHER’s number...
8) A couple of weeks later, Wikileaks released these hacked e-mails. There was nothing in them but the whole furore dominated the rest of the campaign.
9) A few days after that, Trump went on TV saying “Russia - if you are listening, can you release the rest of the Clinton e-mails?”
10) Cohen, Trump’s solicitor, is now on recird saying Snr knew all about the meeting.
11) Snr says Cohen is lying. Abramson is setting out in some detail why Cohen has no incentive to lie to the FBI about this. Because he’s facing a very long prison sentence already, and can only extricate himself by being truthful. If he lies to them about this, he’s going down for even longer.
It’s there in black and white. Very strong evidence of a conspiracy with a hostile foreign power to tip the 2016 election. That is why Trump is maniacally lashing out on Twitter every week about the inquiry. Because he knows that if he doesn’t kill the inquiry, he’s facing the rest of his days in prison.
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Sweet God up above.
This is Trump’s lawyer. Defending him. On THE most Trump-friendly news station. Making an absolute f**king car crash of defending him.
https://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-news-hosts-press-giuliani-on-revelation-of-second-trump-meeting-no-one-asked-if-he-was-there/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
As Seth Abramson says, watch the eyes of the interviewer at 05:20. It’s the eyes of someone thing, “IMG! It’s all true! They ARE criminals!”
And then go to 06:50. Watch how Fox operates. Imagine the f**king panic behind the scenes as someone is screaming “Rescue him! f**king rescue him before he collapses and admits the President is a crook!” And they cut in and bring someone in who puts words into Giuliani’s mouth to help him “for the record” say that Trump did nothing wrong.
Have you ever in all your life seen anything like it?
Not only is Trump a crook, he’s a crook who is so f**king useless, he can’t even get competent people around him to spin his lies.
And not only is Fox a right wing propaganda outlet. It’s a right wing propaganda outlet that, when it’s own journalists uncover evidence of treason, covers it up by picking up the f**king useless lawyer and helping him out.
If the future of the world wasn’t at stake, this would be more fun to watch than House of Cards.
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Actually, this is beyond belief.
Giuliani has been stumbling around all day incompetently blowing Trump’s cover on the whole Russia meeting issue.
At 06:50 in that video, Fox cut in to put a friendly interviewer on. His first question is: “Can we be clear for the record, regardless of whether Collusion is a crime, you are saying there was no collusion?”
At 07:22, Giuliani says “Correct”
At 07:25, Fox News stick a big capital letters banner across the bottom of the page screaming “GIULIANI:THERE WAS NO COLLUSION”
It’s so blatant it is breathtaking. That Kitson Murdoch and his cancer of a news agency conspiring to protect a treasonous President on his knees.
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Just seen as a reply on one of Seth Abramson's tweets under the name of 'Make Anagrams Great Again':
Sir, I think my art riddles can describe demagogue Don's bidding: Tyranny.
Democracy isn't dying in darkness, it's being murdered in broad daylight.
Absolutely brilliant :thumbsup:
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Well, this is a nice place we’re in, int it?
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-us-canada-45241838
You lot out there who support Trump. You DO know where this sort of shit leads to, don’t you?
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So what is the truth then? 😳😳😳😳
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I think he was referring to some versions of the truth not being the truth.
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"He tells it like it is!"
"Truth isn't truth."
Hmmm.
They're basically accusing Mueller of entrapment to try and stoke up the Deep State conspiracy nuts that now control the GOP.
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MM
That’s the tactical approach to the particular threat at the moment.
The strategic aim is the terrifying one. It is basically to throw out of the window the idea of objective truth.
If we allow that, whether through ignorance, idleness or making smart arse wisecracks about it while it happens, then democracy is f**ked.
Consider.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.
Truth is not truth.
It fits doesn’t it?
And now I think about it, “ignorance is strength” pretty much sums up what that Kitson Gove was saying about how people shouldn’t listen to economics experts before the Brexit vote, but instead trust their own gut instincts.
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How the f**k do you get "trapped into perjury"?
"Oh f**k I've lied but only cos I got tricked into lying"?
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You get “trapped” into perjury by lying about something under oath and getting caught lying.
Giuliani is complaining about the possibility of Trump being asked summat that would activate the second part of that sentence. And he’s insisting that Trump has the right of refusing to engage with an enquiry that might result in that outcome.
Stop and think a minute.
There are legal processes in democracies for a good reason. That is that EVERYONE is expected to follow the law or be subjected to the consequences.
What Giuliani is trying to do is to make the case that Trump is above the law and has the right to refuse to engage with a process that may prove his guilt.
That’s what emperors do. It’s what kings do. It’s what dictators do. If the Republican Party tsupports Trump over this (and they have done so far) think of what that actually means about American democracy.
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It was a bright cold day in April and the clocks were striking thirteen...
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Manafort found guilty and Cohen pleads guilty and agrees to co-operate with prosecutors on the same day. Chalk two more people from Trump's inner circle to go down.
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Net's tightening. Can only be a matter of time now.
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You'd think. And that's just based on what's out there in public. Mueller must have access to evidence that'd make your toes curl.
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You'd think. And that's just based on what's out there in public. Mueller must have access to evidence that'd make your toes curl.
I'm sure in Donalds world prison isn't prison, so he's no need to continue shitting his pants on a hourly basis
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Jesus f**king Christ.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2018-08-31/president-donald-trump-interviewed-by-bloomberg-news-transcript
It reads like the emergency services talking to an old soak who's been found collapsed on the pavement.
"Sir. We'd just like to get some information from you."
"Yes. I have very strong opinions on that. Some people love it. Some don't. I I I I'm thinking about it and I can't comment. But I can tell you I have very strong opinions on that. I mean. Look at the numbers. Did you see the numbers this week? They changed 41 to 42.
40.
4.0 to 4.1."
It's the rambling of a man whose mind is falling away.
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And again.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/politics/2018/09/04/transcript-phone-call-between-president-trump-journalist-bob-woodward/?__twitter_impression=true
Sub text. Bob Woodward is the Pulitzer Prize winning journalist whose investigative reporting brought Nixon down over Watergate. He's releasing a book on Trump based on recorded interviews at the White House. He repeatedly asked Trump's aides for meetings with Trump. This is his phone call when he spoke to Trump after the book was published as a courtesy call (because the book paints a picture of utter f**king chaos in the White House, and senior staff questioning Trump's sanity.)
Can anyone read that and not be terrified that this man is in the most powerful position in the world. It's obvious that the aides passed on Woodward's requests to Trump and Trump was terrified of being interviewed by the man who brought Nixon down. But Trump stumbles and lies about it in the phone transcript.
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Jesus f**king Christ.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2018-08-31/president-donald-trump-interviewed-by-bloomberg-news-transcript
It reads like the emergency services talking to an old soak who's been found collapsed on the pavement.
"Sir. We'd just like to get some information from you."
"Yes. I have very strong opinions on that. Some people love it. Some don't. I I I I'm thinking about it and I can't comment. But I can tell you I have very strong opinions on that. I mean. Look at the numbers. Did you see the numbers this week? They changed 41 to 42.
40.
4.0 to 4.1."
It's the rambling of a man whose mind is falling away.
Precisely it's exactly that, the ramblings of a man that knows he's not only been rumbled but also realises that even his great office of State can no longer keep his pursuers at bay for much longer - the game is nearly up. Even his fan base can't save him from the Mueller investigation any longer. He is dead in the water.
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Either Trump is an insecure manchild kept insulated from the world by his aides or he's lying in that transcript. Or, more likely, both.
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It's like Judge Judy says, you need a good memory to be a good liar. Trump lies like sheep shit - wildly and at random. And he hasn't go the memory for it.
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So the Saudi Arabian Royal Family who are bankrolling Trump's son-in-law sent a hit squad to Ankara to murder a journalist who had been critical of them.
Apparently they chopped his fingers off with a bone saw while he was still alive, before dismembering his body. To send a message to others who might want to criticise them.
In ordinary times, the Leader of the Free World might be expected to express revulsion at this.
Trump has spent three weeks playing this down. Then he goes on TV today to say this:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1054834884739502081
Not: State-sponsored torture and murder is abhorrent and we will be taking the strongest possible action against these barbarians.
No. "They had a very bad 'deal' (read - plan to torture and murder an innocent man). They had the worst cover up in history."
This is truly terrifying. This road that we're going down.
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Billy, I am afraid we are already at the end of the road:
'We're getting facts in from multiple places. Once those facts come in, the secretary of state will work with our national security team to help us determine what we want to believe.'
https://www.commondreams.org/news/2018/10/22/softball-interview-kushner-says-facts-first-then-we-determine-what-we-want-believe
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Seth Abramson has a book coming out soon which I'm very much looking forward to. He's laying out a 6-nation grand bargain between the USA, UAE, Saudis, Russia, Qatar, and Israel. Frightening stuff. These are the power-brokers of the world for the next generation in plain sight, but people don't want to hear it because they'd rather side with despots and murderers than "lefties".
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Not sure if this is hilarious or terrifying.
https://mobile.twitter.com/arlenparsa/status/1060228709850980354
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Trump appears more and more to be trying to take on the role of a dictator.
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Hound
It's very simple. He's a criminal. And he will do whatever he can get away with doing, in order to avoid spending the rest of his life in prison. Including going a long way towards destroying American democracy.
Absorb that, and every action he takes makes sense.
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Hound
It's very simple. He's a criminal. And he will do whatever he can get away with doing, in order to avoid spending the rest of his life in prison. Including going a long way towards destroying American democracy.
Absorb that, and every action he takes makes sense.
Rightly or wrongly, you'd better get used to it; he'll p*ss it for a second term in 2020; anyone who doubts that is self deluded.
Incidently, would you regard guttersnipe journalists as decent people?.
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1) He won't win in 2020. Look at the detail of Tuesday's results. Regions that he won by 15% in 2016 were neck and neck this week. And he's now in a nightmare situation of having a Congress that can't protect him from investigation. So the extent of his criminality will now be exposed.
2) The role of the press in a democracy should be to help hold Govt to account. So yes, there are some guttersnipe journalists, but they are not the ones that are asking questions of him. They are the ones like Fox News which are deliberately lying to protect him.
3) I'm assuming you're referring to the issue with Jim Acosta. He was certainly confrontational in asking questions about a political advert out out by Trump that was so disgusting even Fox News refused to air it. But the way in which this is being spin by the White House is obsecene. They are pushing the line that he assaulted an intern. Which he didn't. And that line is being supported by a video which has been deliberately edited to make it look as though he struck the intern. That is an indication of how much the Trump supporters' backs are now against the wall.
You decide which side you are on in days like these.
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Here you go by the way.
This is the doctored video that the Leader of the Free World is using in order to smear a journalist who has aggressively asked difficult questions.
https://mobile.twitter.com/aymanndotcom/status/1060424768653062149?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-3350345551785004801.ampproject.net%2F1811051833450%2Fframe.html
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1) He won't win in 2020. Look at the detail of Tuesday's results. Regions that he won by 15% in 2016 were neck and neck this week. And he's now in a nightmare situation of having a Congress that can't protect him from investigation. So the extent of his criminality will now be exposed.
2) The role of the press in a democracy should be to help hold Govt to account. So yes, there are some guttersnipe journalists, but they are not the ones that are asking questions of him. They are the ones like Fox News which are deliberately lying to protect him.
3) I'm assuming you're referring to the issue with Jim Acosta. He was certainly confrontational in asking questions about a political advert out out by Trump that was so disgusting even Fox News refused to air it. But the way in which this is being spin by the White House is obsecene. They are pushing the line that he assaulted an intern. Which he didn't. And that line is being supported by a video which has been deliberately edited to make it look as though he struck the intern. That is an indication of how much the Trump supporters' backs are now against the wall.
You decide which side you are on in days like these.
I'm not on any side; I'm on my own side; all I'm doing is stating facts. To make gains in the Senate in mid-term elections is almost unprecedented, and shocked everyone. This means he can carry on making appointments, which he's wasted no time in doing. It's pretty obvious to everyone why he got rid of Jeff Sessions. The new guy will go straight for Robert Mueller's throat.
Incidently, who will be leading the Democrats in 2020?; when they start talking about the likes of Oprah Winfrey they're getting pretty desperate.
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Here you go by the way.
This is the doctored video that the Leader of the Free World is using in order to smear a journalist who has aggressively asked difficult questions.
https://mobile.twitter.com/aymanndotcom/status/1060424768653062149?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-3350345551785004801.ampproject.net%2F1811051833450%2Fframe.html
Having asked questions of Politicians at press conferences I can say that the etiquette is that you get one question and there are usually one or two persons on hand to quickly give you the microphone and quickly take it off you to pass to the next person who has a question ,your question is usually passed to an aide before the conference to prevent any low Ballers!
When the young lady approached him he Should she have handed her the microphone. What he is doing is using a self defence technique called blocking ,using your arms and body movements to prevent someone from striking you in the extreme to preventing them touching your torso or removing something from your hand,or in your jacket ,say mobile or wallett, in the scenario of a press conference with the Queen, Primeminister, or other dignitary what he has done is totally inappropriate.
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Scawsby.
The Senate situation was a very odd one. The majority of the Senate seats up for election were in rock solid Republican areas, including ones which the Democrats had won against the odds a few years previously. The Republicans did about par for the course in winning back a couple of those, but the bigger picture was a very strong swing to the Democrats nationwide. In 2020, there are many more Republican marginal seats up for grabs.
Overall, the results in the House and Senate are pretty much exactky what the polls were predicting, with a swing of something like 8-10% to the Democrats - very big by historical standards. And as I say, that's been in a situation where Trump has had cover from Congress. There will be a wave of stuff coming out now the Democrats hold the House.
The overall picture is that Trump would have to make a very big swing in his direction from here to have any chance in 2020.
Regarding the Democrat's presidential candidate, it won't be Oprah Winfrey! There are several very strong candidates who will be coming to the fore over the next few months.
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Sproty.
He wasn't using a blocking technique. He had his hand up pointing at Trump, then lowered it and brushed against her arm. The way that is being spin as some sort of assault is insane. And the fact that the WH is pushing a doctored video which attempts to make it look like a violent action is disgraceful.
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Actually, this is something that IT experts have been warning is coming. We're getting very close to the point where videos can be forged to make genuinely fake news. This one is an amateurish attempt because it is clear that it's been faked. And still millions of people are believing it because it suits what they want to believe. But when videos can be faked with no way of telling, we really are in a tough place for truth.
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Sproty.
He wasn't using a blocking technique. He had his hand up pointing at Trump, then lowered it and brushed against her arm. The way that is being spin as some sort of assault is insane. And the fact that the WH is pushing a doctored video which attempts to make it look like a violent action is disgraceful.
Billy pointing is a precursor to punching.why would he need to point at Trump?
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Hound
It's very simple. He's a criminal. And he will do whatever he can get away with doing, in order to avoid spending the rest of his life in prison. Including going a long way towards destroying American democracy.
Absorb that, and every action he takes makes sense.
Rightly or wrongly, you'd better get used to it; he'll p*ss it for a second term in 2020; anyone who doubts that is self deluded.
Incidently, would you regard guttersnipe journalists as decent people?.
He’ll probably be in jail in 2020
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Sproty.
He wasn't using a blocking technique. He had his hand up pointing at Trump, then lowered it and brushed against her arm. The way that is being spin as some sort of assault is insane. And the fact that the WH is pushing a doctored video which attempts to make it look like a violent action is disgraceful.
Billy pointing is a precursor to punching.why would he need to point at Trump?
Is it? what a load of b*llocks. So when I'm pointing at a dog to my young nephews that means I'm going to bray f**k out of it I suppose?
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Sproty.
He wasn't using a blocking technique. He had his hand up pointing at Trump, then lowered it and brushed against her arm. The way that is being spin as some sort of assault is insane. And the fact that the WH is pushing a doctored video which attempts to make it look like a violent action is disgraceful.
Billy pointing is a precursor to punching.why would he need to point at Trump?
If that was true, James Harper would have been World welterweight champion.
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This is the take home message about Tuesday's vote by the way.
https://mobile.twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1060517002404659201
As Nate Silver says, you'd need a 6% swing to the Republicans to make the 2020 election balanced. Not out of the question, but you need to factor in that Trump can't hide his criminality now that he's lost the House. So the odds are very much against him being able to make a swing like that.
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Hound
It's very simple. He's a criminal. And he will do whatever he can get away with doing, in order to avoid spending the rest of his life in prison. Including going a long way towards destroying American democracy.
Absorb that, and every action he takes makes sense.
Rightly or wrongly, you'd better get used to it; he'll p*ss it for a second term in 2020; anyone who doubts that is self deluded.
Incidently, would you regard guttersnipe journalists as decent people?.
He’ll probably be in jail in 2020
In jail for what?.
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This is the take home message about Tuesday's vote by the way.
https://mobile.twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1060517002404659201
As Nate Silver says, you'd need a 6% swing to the Republicans to make the 2020 election balanced. Not out of the question, but you need to factor in that Trump can't hide his criminality now that he's lost the House. So the odds are very much against him being able to make a swing like that.
OK Billy, let's keep this amicable and fair; let's have a £50 bet, and whoever wins donates it to the Rovers foodbank. I can't be any fairer than that.
If Trump wins in 2020, I win, if A.N. Other wins for the Democrats, you win. How about it?.
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We're well down the rabbit hole now. The leader of the free world (or his office) is openly tweeting out doctored videos to smear and suppress a prominent journalist. I'm shocked at how not shocked I am. Can you imagine that happening in the developed world a decade ago? Can you imagine the shockwaves that'd cause? But in 2018, we'll have forgotten about it by next week. I do question where it all ends, and what the world will look like when it does.
And Rovers have lost 3 on the bounce. f**k me. What a world.
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Scawsby.
Given that the best price you can get on Trump is 13/8, that hardly seems fair on you. If Trump wins, I'll put £80 in.
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And so it goes on.
https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1060723241193484288?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
What's actually happened here is that there is a recount going on, and one very large county is late completing. The Republican candidate, with no evidence whatsoever, has said there is a legal investigation going on into voting fraud in the county. I repeat. With no evidence whatsoever.
And the Leader of the Free World is screaming out his support and claiming that the Republican has won.
This isn't showmanship. This is how democracy collapses. Anyone who looks at this sort of behaviour and shrugs their shoulders doesn't really believe in democracy.
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If possible Trump looks more stupid and devious with every day that passes.
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Here's a novel idea, lets hear from the person who "doctored" the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zo7ORobbXPw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zo7ORobbXPw)
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Well, it's not like InfoWars have previous in propagating conspiracy theories and fake news is it?
So you could ask an independent video expert for his analysis, rather than someone who has skin in the game.
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/11/ap-video-expert-says-white-house-clip-of-cnn-reporter-was-likely-doctored/
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Well, Channel 4 must be getting it wrong as well then;
https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1060843583228514304
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On the one side there's Trump, Breitbart and InfoWars.
On the other side there's everyone else in the world.
Take your pick.
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Yes, it’s pretty surreal here. The stunt with the doctored video is unworthy of this country, yet it’s the new normal here. We call it Friday.
Many of us got a bit excited and slept better for one night after the election when the Dems won the House of Reps, then Trump’s meltdown began and he has sunk lower with denial of press credentials and is now trying to embarrass and shame other reporters for basically doing their jobs. He is also attempting to prevent recounts in states where there were irregularities with voting. Who needs Russia? We seem to be very adept at perverting justice ourselves.
As for the Muller investigation, I just hope that Mueller foresaw this scenario and has taken measures to safeguard what he may have already uncovered. Apparently there was talk that Don Jr was to be indicted shortly, which was the reason for the swift firing of Sessions and his apparent Trump-approved replacement. Trump is acting like a very guilty person caught in a trap, and we can only hope that any evidence of his apparent wrong-doing comes out soon. I just worry he will take everything and anything down with him, as you can see that in his very reckless actions.
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So.
Last week Trump sacked the Attorney General and replaced him with Matthew Whitaker, who has the power to shut down the Mueller investigation, and who is on record several times as saying the Mueller investigation should be shut down.
Conflict of interest? Yeah, perhaps. So you'd expect the Leader of the Free World to be upfront about his connections with Whitaker.
35:35 here. This is what he said a month ago.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D_CI6dPvi2bY&ved=2ahUKEwihxu6H4s7eAhVRzhoKHR-tB-AQwqsBMAB6BAgIEAU&usg=AOvVaw0QFkCKFVZwNwouHRTxHuAt
Then this is what he tweeted on Saturday as he hid in his Paris hotel room rather than get his hair wet at a Remenmbrance ceremony.
https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1061104224090628097
Looks like a man panicking and floundering to me.
Did I say "man"? I don't often agree with Tory MPs but Nicholas Soames was right on the money here.
https://mobile.twitter.com/NSoames/status/1061270124404113408?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-33805761102855944212.ampproject.net%2F1811091510240%2Fframe.html
Trump is a pathetic inadequate. A criminal, venal, cowardly, narcissistic man-child. Who is going to be very publicly humiliated and eviscerated over the next two years.
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Problem is, of course, not what happens to that piece of shit.
It's what happens to democracy now that this sort of behaviour is normalised. 40% of people seem not to care about the pathological lying and the criminality and the incompetence, as long as he's telling them what they want to believe.
Just as with Brexit. It doesn't matter what evidence of lying and criminality from the Leave campaign comes to light. It doesn't matter what evidence of treason comes out. It doesn't matter what evidence comes out of the economic and diplomatic shambles that we've thrown ourselves into. People want Brexit to be right so they'll ignore all that and instead throw abuse at people who point it out for being elitist and condescending.
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So Andy, speaking of Trump not wanting to get his hair wet, I’m wondering if it was more for show to publicly NOT stand with the EU leaders or march with them, so Putin would see he is still with him, not them. That’s my suspicious mind, but it did occur to me there may be more to it. Also he knows his supporters will not turn against him no what he does or in this case, doesn’t do - though he is getting quite a bit of criticism from veterans.
As for democracy, I’m going to wait and see what happens with Trump. Maybe if the Mueller probe gets completed and justice is done, maybe, just maybe it will also restore some semblance to the rule of law. Hopefully his supporters would then see him as he truly is. Also I’m so happy the Dems winning the majority in the House showed the Republicans that a lot of us Americans can’t abide Trump, his policies and lies and those that allow him to debase the laws are voted out.
About Brexit, why doesn’t Teresa May just call for a new vote? She won’t be any less popular than she is now, so what does she have to lose. Is it because she supported reman initially, so she doesn’t want people to think she is not upholding the Brexit vote, even though there seems to be evidence supporting that a new vote would be favorable to the majority due to the shenanigans that went on with misinformation campaigns and probable Russian intervention on the leave side. I understand that a vote should stand, but even under these circumstances? Apologies if this has already been discussed in the Brexit thread.
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It's nice to hear from an American worried about their democracy rather than cheering Trump's ridiculous posturing. Sometimes he reminds me of the way Mussolini used to stand milking the crowd.
Trump reminds me of one of the evil villains that is seen in cartoon shows.
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I could not believe when I heard he had not gone to commemorate the War dead because of "adverse" Weather conditions.
I immediately had a rant saying - what about the dead and injured ? They could not say things like "oi its a bit wet in this Trench" and " its a bit muddy - I reckon I might slip as I run headlong into almost certain death to help future generations by fighting for them in these conditions"
I am not a Trump fan and no matter how I try I always think of the creature in Groundhog Day - was it Punxatawny Phil or something similar. Why I have that image I do not know
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I am surprised more is not being made of his geo-political gaffe in Europe last weekend. He was introduced to the leaders of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, and immedately criticsed them for starting the war in the former Yugoslavia. He was unable to distinguish between the Baltics and the Balkans, despite his wife coming from the latter! When his error was pointed out he criticised them for Nordstream II gas project ....in which they are not even participating. And then he suggested they become more friendly with Russia.
Hilarious if it weren't so dangerous.
I remember that when President Bush visited Northern Ireland in the early noughties that he was asked which part of Northern Ireland are you most looking forward to seeing .... and he said Dublin. I remember thinking this was a new low for an American politician's lack of global awareness and ignorance of anything in Europe. At least Bush had some decent advisors around him to help him out. Trump truly is in a total Emperor's new clothes situation. I am becoming seriously worried about him achieving Putin's holy grail and pulling the US out of NATO if he is around for all of the next 2 years.
However there now seem to be rumours of Murdoch, who owns Fox News etc, pulling his support for Trump. That would hurt him I reckon.
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His latest rant is beyond belief, coming from the supposed leader of the free world
Emmanuel Macron suggests building its own army to protect Europe against the U.S., China and Russia. But it was Germany in World Wars One & Two - How did that work out for France? They were starting to learn German in Paris before the U.S. came along. Pay for NATO or not!
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It would all be hilarious if it didn't have potentially catastrophic ramifications...
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It's nice to hear from an American worried about their democracy rather than cheering Trump's ridiculous posturing. Sometimes he reminds me of the way Mussolini used to stand milking the crowd.
Trump reminds me of one of the evil villains that is seen in cartoon shows.
The whole thing is still surreal, even now. It's a shambles... an absolute disgrace.
Most Americans are embarrassed by the current state of affairs, and appalled at how the country is being represented.
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True that "most" are. But there's still a regular 40% approve of him in the polls.
Just shows how polarised politics is these days. Republicans would rather have a lying, cowardly, amoral, narcissistic, treasonous criminal in the WH than a Democrat.
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Definitely worth a read!
https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/1064726398307315712
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The Leader of the Free World re-tweeted this today.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1057126984285712384
Facts and truth appear to have entirely evaporated from the modern debate.
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Definitely worth a read!
https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/1064726398307315712
I can recommend his book.
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Got it on my Xmas list Dutch. Although, having read his Twitter feed every day for the past 18 months, I've seen most of this.
Here's another development that he predicted.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-46390368
If American democracy survives this abhorrent man-child, Abramson will be a big part of the success story. The mainstream media have been bleeding useless.
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Definitely worth a read!
https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/1064726398307315712
I can recommend his book.
I'm currently working my way through it Dutch. It's an exceptional read!.
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This is part of the intro;
It’s within this framework of experience, principle, and philosophy that I say that I have never before encountered a criminal investigation in which the entirety of the evidence is as damning as it is in the Trump-Russia investigation.
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Definitely worth a read!
https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/1064726398307315712
I can recommend his book.
I'm currently working my way through it Dutch. It's an exceptional read!.
Me too!
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And we think WE have a leader who is hopelessly detached from reality...
https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1073248244787015680
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I can practically smell the sweaty palms that typed that Tweet out. He's absolutely shitting it.
Every time he vomits something like that into the world I think Don Jr is about to be indicted. Maybe this time...
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He will be. Probably before Easter.
It's actually great how slowly and remorselessly the Mueller investigation is rolling on. Imagine what it's like being Trump. Knowing every night before you go to bed, and every morning when you get up and start tweeting that it's coming for you. Slowly. Unavoidably. Inevitably. And there is nowhere to hide.
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And when even the most putrid of rats like Fox News are leaving, you know the ship is sinking.
https://video.foxnews.com/v/5978768497001/?#sp=show-clips
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To be fair, Shep Smith is the reasonable one on Fox News. He's conservative, but not an utterly batshit swivel-eyed conspiracy theorist like almost everyone else on the channel. He routinely criticises Trump, albeit gently. He's there to lend legitimacy to the propaganda machine, so I wouldn't count Fox out just yet. They had Hannity and Pirro literally stand on stage and campaign with Trump during the midterms, after all.
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I'll take your word for it MM. I'd rather stick pins in my gonads than watch Fox News as a rule.
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Remember ever day that a man-child who flies into a rage on Twitter everytime someone takes the piss or criticises him, has his finger on the nuclear button.
He used to have three grown ups watching over him.
Tillerson, Kelly and Marris. Rumour was that they had made a pact that one of them would always be within rubgy tackling distance of the President.
Just in case.
All three have now gone.
It's not the most settling of thoughts.
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Goodness.
https://mobile.twitter.com/kurteichenwald/status/1079850037088342017
It's a heavy read, but if true, this is looking like treason by the Trump campaign.
This is a respected journalist and author setting out detailed evidence that the Trump campaign worked with known Kremlin disinformation platforms to circumvent the democratic process by spreading known lies about Clinton in 2016.
That'd be some outcome. An American President facing the death penalty for High Treason.
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It all looks too convenient doesn’t it.
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Excellent interview (more an interrogation) of Seth Abramson here.
https://chirb.it/baBKt6
That is a man who has his finger on the pulse, who has encyclopaedic knowledge of Trump's crimes, and who never overplays his hand. Every accusation he makes is backed up with impeccable research.
People who are not reading Abramson are totally unprepared for the huge shock coming down the way, when the evidence of the mind-boggling extent of Trump's treasonous behaviour gets set out by Mueller.
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These from yesterday are very interesting;
https://t.co/IYMc7yfiuU
https://t.co/sYXeE4j8BP
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He's a traitor hiding in plain sight. Putin had him by the b*llocks because (at the very least) Trump was illegally collaborating with Kremlin officials during the campaign. And there's almost certainly financial agreements going back way longer.
It is almost too much to take in. It's the biggest political scandal in history.
Think about it.
The President of the USA. Bribed and blackmailed into being an agent of the Kremlin.
The terrifying question is: what is the effect on American democracy when the entire story comes out and is undeniable. What do the 40% who've been happy to turn a blind eye to his criminality, amorality and venality do when it turns out he's the biggest traitor in American history?
What's supposed to happen is that they throw their hands up, admit their error and join in the task of re-building America's faith in itself.
What I fear will happen is that they'll fall for the Fox line that they are being misled by the Liberal Elite, and they are justified in taking to the streets.
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Who is going to take the stance and try and bring him to task BST? Would it have to be the senate?
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If they go for impeachment, the House passes a resolution starting the process, then the President is tried by the Senate. Needs (I think) a 2/3rds majority to actually impeach him in the Senate.
I'll be amazed if it gets that far.
When Mueller finally reports, the Democrats will prefer not to start impeachment. They'll want Trump finishing off his term with the scandal hanging over him day after day, and all the Republicans who supported him ritually humiliated.
The Republicans will try every back room threat they can to get Trump to stand down.
But he won't stand down. Because when he does, he can be tried for his multiple felonies in a normal court. And after that, he will die in prison.
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Wow.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml/jasonleopold/trump-russia-cohen-moscow-tower-mueller-investigation?bftwnews=&utm_term=4ldqpgc&__twitter_impression=true
If this is true (and the report says the investigators have e-mail evidence) then that's him done. Direct evidence of criminality.
What's that old saying? It's not the original misdeed that brings you down. It's the crimes you commit in trying to cover it up.
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By the way. Some viewing here for the "Well at least he's a strong leader" Putin apologists in here.
https://mobile.twitter.com/KremlinTrolls/status/1086333157765337094
That's what he does to a young woman who claims to have incriminatory evidence on Trump.
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What? They arrested her? What else was gonna happen?
Looks like she resisted arrest, and they used appropriate force, and filmed it to prove it.
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You could read around it BS instead of reading into it what you want.
She was in transit at Moscow airport. On the air side. Not on Russian territory. She was getting a connecting flight to Minsk.
Security officers drugged her, stuck her in a wheelchair and pushed her onto Russian territory, where she was then taken away.
But hey. You normalise it if you want.
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No issue, other than the drugging. If indeed that's true.
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No issue BS?
1) She's Belarusian, not Russian.
2) She was being deported from Thailand to Minsk. Via Moscow.
3) There is no record of Russia having an arrest warrant for her.
4) The worst crime she has been accused of by Russia (accused of by politicians, not the judiciary not that the distinction massively matters in practice) is prositution. (Ironic, I know...).
5) Have you ever known someone accused of prostitution be physically and forcibly restrained by 4 security agents in an airport transfer lounge, with no arrest warrant?
6) I'm sure it's entirely coincidental, but she had a fling (possibly paid for) with Oleg Deripaska.
But, I'm sure you're right. No issue.
If you don't want to trouble your conscience with the legal issues, have a couple of minutes with your own soul in a quiet room this afternoon and ponder what that woman is experiencing right now. And whether you really care.
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No issue BS?
1) She's Belarusian, not Russian.
2) She was being deported from Thailand to Minsk. Via Moscow.
3) There is no record of Russia having an arrest warrant for her.
4) The worst crime she has been accused of by Russia (accused of by politicians, not the judiciary) is prositution. (Ironic, I know...).
5) Have you ever known someone accused of prostitution be physically and forcibly restrained by 4 security agents in an airport transfer lounge, with no arrest warrant?
6) I'm sure it's entirely coincidental, but she had a fling (possibly paid for) with Oleg Deripaska.
But, I'm sure you're right. No issue.
If you don't want to trouble your conscience with the legal issues, have a couple of minutes with your own soul in a quiet room this afternoon and ponder what that woman is experiencing right now. And whether you really care.
That Woman is probably dead now,
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It's a shame for us all that didn't happen to George Osbourne when he went on his yacht attempting to solicit donations for the Tories (allegendly). How history may have turned out differently.
Oleg Deripasga. Putin ally, one time employer of Paul Manafort, friend and funder to many well connected people who should know better including not only Osbourne but also Blair and Mandelson.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/04/world/europe/oleg-deripaska-russia-oligarch-sanctions.html
https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla
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What? They arrested her? What else was gonna happen?
Looks like she resisted arrest, and they used appropriate force, and filmed it to prove it.
You're such a f*cking troll. Used to be against the rules on the forum; not sure if it still is?
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That seems to be the mantra of the right these days. Don’t worry about being right, or about having a grown up discussion. Just say whatever you think will trigger those lefties!
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No issue BS?
1) She's Belarusian, not Russian.
2) She was being deported from Thailand to Minsk. Via Moscow.
3) There is no record of Russia having an arrest warrant for her.
4) The worst crime she has been accused of by Russia (accused of by politicians, not the judiciary) is prositution. (Ironic, I know...).
5) Have you ever known someone accused of prostitution be physically and forcibly restrained by 4 security agents in an airport transfer lounge, with no arrest warrant?
6) I'm sure it's entirely coincidental, but she had a fling (possibly paid for) with Oleg Deripaska.
But, I'm sure you're right. No issue.
If you don't want to trouble your conscience with the legal issues, have a couple of minutes with your own soul in a quiet room this afternoon and ponder what that woman is experiencing right now. And whether you really care.
That Woman is probably dead now,
I’m surprised that this woman came out publicly with her claims knowing as she did what would happen. I do remember reading her story many months ago and it was apparently ignored, but now that she states she has recordings of their conversations and other evidence of US election hacking, she has been ‘detained’ by Russia. I also wonder if she’ll ever be heard from again.
On the Trump business I am very happy that finally, finally the mainstream press is getting on board with the Russian investigation, although unfortunately that recent report about Cohen by BuzzFeed news had to be clarified by Mueller's team. The bad news is that according to Seth Abramson’s twitter feed it sounds like Russia is the tip of the iceberg and worse is yet to come. Apparently there are Trump deals with Netanyahu, UAE, Egypt and others, yet to be uncovered. Someone did ask Seth if he thought at the end of this whole business if we would survive as a nation and thankfully he said he thought we would, but who knows; and you also wonder if America as a nation has seen our peak.
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She's been released from detention today. But will be back in court later this month for prosecution. Given the publicity this case has had, maybe even Putin has decided that he can't just do away with her in the way that he has done with others who crossed him and Deripaska.
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And another one in the net.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-47002713
This is the man who acted as a go-between from Trump to Assange to get Wikileaks to leak the e-mails stolen from the Democratic party by Russia.
Mueller is remorselessly closing in on everyone in Trump's team. It's like a glacier just grinding on. Slowly. Unstoppable.
Trump must feel like he's being garotted to death over a 3 year period.
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Oh aye. Slipped my mind earlier. Stone is a close acquaintance of our own, dear Nigel. There was much speculation last year that it was actually Farage who acted as intermediary between Assange in London and Stone.
And Farage, as we know, is already a "person of interest" in the Mueller investigation...
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Thought this was brilliant:
https://worldofwonder.net/quora-nate-white-hilariously-answers-the-query-why-do-british-people-not-like-trump/
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Well, here's the next Trump associate in line for doing time.
Meet Erik Prince. Former head of the private army, Blackwater, who made hundreds of millions of dollars in Iraq.
Erik Prince who has been making some of the secret connections between Trump's team and various Middle East power brokers in what is a conspiracy that is too big to be realistic in a Hollywood movie.
Erik Prince who has carried an air of brazen confidence about him.
Erik Prince being invited to admit committing perjury in possibly the finest interview you will ever see.
https://mobile.twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1104166202354663424
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Jesus f**king wept.
https://mobile.twitter.com/TrueFactsStated/status/1122329252182089729
He is a f**king monster. A moral black hole.
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And this is where politics is in 2019.
https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1131728912835383300?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
That video has been doctored (badly, to be honest) to make the Democrat Speaker look like a drunk and a halfwit. Even Fox News later came out and said it was fake. Even Fox-f**king-News...
But, meanwhile, the Leader of the Free World re-tweets it. And doesn't apologise or delete the tweet. Because he is a moral vacuum.
There's no pride or standards or morality left. All that matters is winning. Any lie, any abuse, any misleading meme is OK, as long as you win and they lose.
And, co-incidentally, look who the people are on this Board and in this country who support and condone Trump. Tells you all you need to know.