Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Filo on December 09, 2017, 04:59:13 pm
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Another loss to a late injury time winner
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We need a striker who believes in his ability. Too many opportunities missed DF must be thinking the same .
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Go on then, who's gunna be the first one to mention 'luck'?
Game lasts as long as it lasts.
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We saved a dubious penalty so how much luck do we need .
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Lawlor should have done better with the goal, a bobbler from 25 yards.
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It's not luck, but if we take our own chances then it's just a consolation.
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Lawlor should have done better with the goal, a bobbler from 25 yards.
We should have out of sight by then !!
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Lawlor is a bit susceptible to shots from range.
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Looked like it took a deflection.
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The sbit was from distance but ut was no bobbler and his penalty save was good and like in another post we should have been out off sight we have to shoot more and stop trying to walk it in
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It's not luck, but if we take our own chances then it's just a consolation.
What if they took their chances?
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They only needed the one taken to beat us.
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Fourth time isn’t it? Rochdale, Shrews, Rotherham and today.
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What's more annoying is that time was up and we were attacking, then Mason kicked it straight to their player instead of chipping it over his head.
They broke away and 5 seconds later it's in our net.
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Not been today but it sounds hard to take ...must admit from 80mins checking phone constant and shitting mysen that we can hold on and then we concede....should have known better...how many times before we learn.
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We are failing to take our chances is what is costing us games. While the game is level either team can win the game last on by one goal, in our case it is usually the opposition.
Must ask why isn't Marquis scoring? Confidence or being shown up as not good enough in a higher league?
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Marquis did a really good job of leading the line and holding up the ball. Thing is, he can't do that and be a goal poacher. We need the other strikers to do that and for more goals from midfield.
We should never have lost today. After the first 20 minutes we were the better side. How six minutes got added on is unbelievable.
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These are games we need to win or at the very least get a draw. Now we are looking over our shoulders at the bottom four, we are only 3 points above the drop zone. It now makes next Saturday's game against Oldham a must win game.
TRB, Thanks for your feedback, sounds as if Marquis is doing his best, but not given opportunities to score goals, that has to down to the manager's tactics, which need revising.
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We have been just outside the drop zone for weeks on end and yet still some supporters see this as ok and acceptable.
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It's getting concerning how many times lawlor is getting beat from distance. Fair enough in there in the top corner but he should be doing better with others.
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At least someone was happy with our result
https://www.sportinglife.com/football/news/punter-wins-pound40k-off-pound10-acca/131920
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Who would have thought Chesterfield winning at home !!
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Do we have a divine right to be in the top six. No we don't.
Do we have a Devine right to be in the top half. No we don't.
We have just got promotion from a poor quality league.
The standard in league 1 is much superior.
Some people on here have high expectations. This season is a season of consolidation in this league.
If we get relegated again then I agree that will be uacceptable.
We have 25 games to play, 75 points to play for.
For haven sake get a sense of reality. Let's see where we are at the end of Febraury.
If we are in and around the bottom 4 then I would suggest a change of manager.
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I thought we played well today and didn't deserve to lose. The trouble is that we don't score goals, particularly away from home, and it makes you vulnerable.
At the moment, if you give me 20th at the end of the season I'll take that.
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h
Lawlor should have done better with the goal, a bobbler from 25 yards.
Just seen the goal. It was a good 35 yards out and whilst it was well hit, a keeper should not be beaten from that distance if he has a reasonable starting position. As the shot was made, he was way too far over to one side of the goal and couldn't recover. A basic positional mistake from the keeper. We would have been happy with a point, but everyone needs to concentrate right to the end.
With regard to the penalty, how the ref could give that as inside the box from the position he was in is beyond me - unless the linesman intervened?
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Regarding expectations, of the 40 teams newly promoted to League One over the previous 10 seasons:
- 8/40 finished in the top six (3 of these were promoted).
- 6/40 were relegated.
- The average final position is 13th.
- The average final points total is 60.
Let's not pretend that any team promoted to this league will automatically find it tough to compete. It's actually relatively rare for a promoted team to struggle in League One, and those who were expecting a solid mid-table finish from us this season are not being unreasonable in my book.
With 23 points from 21 games we are not currently on course to perform at the level of the average promoted side, and I can live with that. It's not a big deal. But a relegation battle is hardly encouraging, and relegation unthinkable.
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Quite agree POD....just what I was thinking...
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Regarding expectations, of the 40 teams newly promoted to League One over the previous 10 seasons:
- 8/40 finished in the top six (3 of these were promoted).
- 6/40 were relegated.
- The average final position is 13th.
- The average final points total is 60.
Let's not pretend that any team promoted to this league will automatically find it tough to compete. It's actually relatively rare for a promoted team to struggle in League One, and those who were expecting a solid mid-table finish from us this season are not being unreasonable in my book.
With 23 points from 21 games we are not currently on course to perform at the level of the average promoted side, and I can live with that. It's not a big deal. But a relegation battle is hardly encouraging, and relegation unthinkable.
The average place to finish at the end of the season is 13th! And I'm sure some of those sides would at some point during the season be 4 points below 13th.
Let's wait until the end of the season before making daft comparisons
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You would imagine that we are one of the larger and better resources sides to have been promoted from League Two in that reference period - so that is a perspective that ought to be considered also.
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Only comparison worth doing is where they all were after 21 games
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The table only matters at the end of the season. You said it yourself.
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Exactly
But if you're doing it you've got to use the same parameters
Can't compare 46 games with 21
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The main gist of the post was about our realistic expectations for the season as a whole, taking into account the actual performance of our predecessors. This came about because of the assumption that promoted team = struggle.
I then said "we are not currently on course to perform at the level of the average promoted side". What I said there is true. If it makes you feel better - we may (or may not) "be on course" to do so at some point between now and the end of the season. There is no comparison between 46 games and 21 games - only between 46 games and where we are currently on course to be after 46 games.
Hope that helps.
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Not really no. Cause if you look where they were after 21 games it might be a different story. I imagine teams coming up take time to settle in so will generally have a better 2nd half to their season
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Jesus wept.
The post was about expectations. You don't wait until the end of the season to establish where you expect to finish, you do that at the beginning and reassess throughout.
Over the season, teams are (rightly or wrongly) continually assessed as to whether they are on course to meet those expectations. If that didn't happen then no manager would ever get sacked or players bought / sold in the transfer window. Mr. Chairman might not be best pleased if he wasn't able to act to change the course of the club mid-season.
We are not currently on course to achieve the average final placing of a promoted team. No one is saying that this is gospel and we definitely cannot change the course of where we finish. I thought that point was made loud and clear.
As for your sentence on promoted teams, maybe you could go and find some facts to prove your imaginings. It might be interesting.
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Akinfenwa, give it up mate. No amount of your generous helpings of logical explanation and patience are going to get you anywhere with Dickos. There is none so blind as he who will not see.
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You got two likes, I wonder which 2 likes your post 😂😂.
I don't expect the likes to be anything other than negative, a prime example is this forum is unbelievably quiet after a victory. Mainly cause you lot have nowt to say
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First step to solving a problem is acknowledging that it exists.
Just about everyone accepts that where we are and how we are doing is not satisfactory.
Just about everyone.
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Maybe he's just reached the point that he's painted himself into a corner.
Maybe it's just complete delusion.
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You got two likes, I wonder which 2 likes your post 😂😂.
I don't expect the likes to be anything other than negative, a prime example is this forum is unbelievably quiet after a victory. Mainly cause you lot have nowt to say
unless you are the biggest wind up merchant in Doncaster,I respect your optimism.you are entitled to your views.we are though going through difficult times which we may or may not come through.the end of the season will show.it cannot all be bad luck, I wonder what you views are to improve the current flirt with the bottom of the table.i am in no way trying to get at you,cheers.
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First step to solving a problem is acknowledging that it exists.
Just about everyone accepts that where we are and how we are doing is not satisfactory.
Just about everyone.
I've never said I'm happy with where we are now, but as per you don't let facts interfere with your agenda
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Ok, this is good. We are making progress.
If the situation is unsatisfactory, then the next step is to identify what are the causes?
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you keep saying what the manager should do after a defeat i.e. Play 4 at the back, play round pegs in round holes, play two up front, when we then win you say I've been saying for ages we should've been doing this.
When we lose though playing two up front, playing 4 at the back, playing round pegs in round holes.
This doesn't seem to get mentioned
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Another loss to a late injury time winner
TOO many - but doubtless already discussed above !
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Genuinely, with 25 games to play I am expecting us to pick up 25 or so points.
This is based on DF’s record in recent times in L1.
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Even with no improvement on our 21 games we'd end up with 51 points.
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Lawlor is a bit susceptible to shots from range.
He's the new Ben Smith of this decade.
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Lawlor is a bit susceptible to shots from range.
He's the new Ben Smith of this decade.
I agree he is poor and I had higher expectations of him. However it's tiresome that the spotlight is always on him because WE don't allow him to make the odd error without it almost always costing us the game.
I am concerned about the way we keep getting hit with sucker punches . That's not bad luck ... It's being suckers.
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He's the new Ben Smith of this decade.
Now you're just talking shite.
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He's the new Ben Smith of this decade.
Now you're just talking shite.
Eh?
Ben Smith acquired a reputation, unjustly IMO, for being continuously beaten by long-range shots.
This happened about half a dozen times during the spell when he broke into the first team with Blackpool away in a 3-1 defeat, where they scored all their goals in the last 20 minutes, being a game that springs to mind.
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Even with no improvement on our 21 games we'd end up with 51 points.
So even that outstanding end of season tally would only be just over a point per game.
I just hope we don't have our usual end of season / end of season except for five games crash.
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You're missing the point, everyone is saying how rubbish we've been in these games yet with no improvement whatsoever we would have enough points to stay up.
Only a very slight improvement would see us comfortable
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The hypocrisy in that last sentence is remarkable
Last season you're classing the end of season as the last 5 games yet the season before you're classing the end of the season as everything but the last 5 games just to suit your argument
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We are League 2 standard that is all that can be said , we proving our self to be wanting more League 1 standard or above players .
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We proved we're too good for league 2 by clinching promotion with 5 games to spare.
Must've been one of our most comfortable promotions ever
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We proved we're too good for league 2 by clinching promotion with 5 games to spare.
Must've been one of our most comfortable promotions ever
we proved nothing only that we can F*** up and finish 3rd in a 2 horse race .
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We proved we're too good for league 2 by clinching promotion with 5 games to spare.
Must've been one of our most comfortable promotions ever
we proved nothing only that we can F*** up and finish 3rd in a 2 horse race .
How can you finish third in a two horse race. That’s impossible. We finished 3rd in a 24 horse race.
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Punters wouldn't be happy if the odds on favourite that they had backed threw away a good lead and trailed in third.
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Punters wouldn't be happy if the odds on favourite that they had backed threw away a good lead and trailed in third.
We were about 1/10 weren’t we? So not impossible to happen.
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Not impossible but very unlikely don't you think?
What upset me most was that we didn't go down fighting so to speak.
We were just abject failures for most of those games. Had we fielded a stronger team against Blaclpool the pressure would have been off. We couldn't cope mentally to me.
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I’m hesitating to get into this figh....
...ahhh b*llocks to it. Here goes.
A couple of points of fact.
1) It’s self-evidently the case that we have had a slightly unbalanced first set of 21 matches. In those games, we’ve played every one of the sides currently in the top half (in fact, every one of the current top 14) and only 9 games against sides in the bottom half.
2) We’ve already played 4 of the top 6 away from home (ie on paper, we’ve played 4 of our hardest 6 games of the season).
3) We’ve played 2 of the bottom 6 at home (ie we still have 4 of our nominally easiest matches of the season to come).
Now, come the middle of January, the situation will have reversed. Between now and then we play 4 home games against sides in the bottom 10 (3 against sides in the bottom 4). Our other 2 games are away to sides in 15th and 10th places. In other words, this is (on paper) our easiest run of the season.
If we’re still hovering above the relegation zone by then, then yes, we are in a serious relegation fight. Until then, I respectfully suggest that it’s too early to really tell.
My gut feeling from how I’ve seen us play this season is that, given a couple of good additions and a fair run without injuries, we’ll finish about mid-table. But I’m prepared for an arse-wobble if we don’t pick up a good few points from the next 6 games.
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All based on premise that these clubs stay in same positions for rest of season...otherwise it doesn’t make sense.
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In other words, the table at the moment is meaningless?
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All based on premise that these clubs stay in same positions for rest of season...otherwise it doesn’t make sense.
In other words, the table at the moment is meaningless?
Surely not
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We have manage to conjure up every denomination or combination of loosing games from wining positions this season . It’s no wonder we can’t get any decent form , when we cat even get a form of an average side .
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How many times have we lost games from a winning position then?
How many times have we won games from losing position?
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Punters wouldn't be happy if the odds on favourite that they had backed threw away a good lead and trailed in third.
We were about 1/10 weren’t we? So not impossible to happen.
I was severely braised off, I had us at 9/1 from before the season started, to win the league.
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The hypocrisy in that last sentence is remarkable
Last season you're classing the end of season as the last 5 games yet the season before you're classing the end of the season as everything but the last 5 games just to suit your argument
Sorry, you are wrong.
I wrote end of season / end of season except for last five games because whenever someone says we had an end of season collapse in the relegation season, you come on and tell us that we didn’t have an end of season collapse that year because we did well in the last five games.
( not strictly true either when you consider the pathetic performance at Crewe).
You conveniently omit to include that 19 game run without a win.
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I feel sorry for Bury. All their remaining games are against teams above them, they're just having no luck at all!
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The hypocrisy in that last sentence is remarkable
Last season you're classing the end of season as the last 5 games yet the season before you're classing the end of the season as everything but the last 5 games just to suit your argument
Sorry, you are wrong.
I wrote end of season / end of season except for last five games because whenever someone says we had an end of season collapse in the relegation season, you come on and tell us that we didn’t have an end of season collapse that year because we did well in the last five games.
( not strictly true either when you consider the pathetic performance at Crewe).
You conveniently omit to include that 19 game run without a win.
We had a disasterous middle part to the season, nobody ever said we had a disasterous end to that season until we had a poor end to last season. And now all of a sudden the disasterous middle part of that season has now become a disasterous end of the season just so a point can somehow be made that we always fail at the end of the season.
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The hypocrisy in that last sentence is remarkable
Last season you're classing the end of season as the last 5 games yet the season before you're classing the end of the season as everything but the last 5 games just to suit your argument
Sorry, you are wrong.
I wrote end of season / end of season except for last five games because whenever someone says we had an end of season collapse in the relegation season, you come on and tell us that we didn’t have an end of season collapse that year because we did well in the last five games.
( not strictly true either when you consider the pathetic performance at Crewe).
You conveniently omit to include that 19 game run without a win.
We had a disasterous middle part to the season, nobody ever said we had a disasterous end to that season until we had a poor end to last season. And now all of a sudden the disasterous middle part of that season has now become a disasterous end of the season just so a point can somehow be made that we always fail at the end of the season.
Really?
You are telling me that no one suggested we had a disastrous end to the season in the year we went down?
Almost everyone said it.
As far as I remember it was only you who differed because you said we had done well in the last five matches.
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The majority of people were saying why haven't we been playing like this for the last 20 games? Why are we beating Wigan now when we couldn't beat anyone a few weeks ago.
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I’m hesitating to get into this figh....
...ahhh b*llocks to it. Here goes.
A couple of points of fact.
1) It’s self-evidently the case that we have had a slightly unbalanced first set of 21 matches. In those games, we’ve played every one of the sides currently in the top half (in fact, every one of the current top 14) and only 9 games against sides in the bottom half.
2) We’ve already played 4 of the top 6 away from home (ie on paper, we’ve played 4 of our hardest 6 games of the season).
3) We’ve played 2 of the bottom 6 at home (ie we still have 4 of our nominally easiest matches of the season to come).
Now, come the middle of January, the situation will have reversed. Between now and then we play 4 home games against sides in the bottom 10 (3 against sides in the bottom 4). Our other 2 games are away to sides in 15th and 10th places. In other words, this is (on paper) our easiest run of the season.
If we’re still hovering above the relegation zone by then, then yes, we are in a serious relegation fight. Until then, I respectfully suggest that it’s too early to really tell.
My gut feeling from how I’ve seen us play this season is that, given a couple of good additions and a fair run without injuries, we’ll finish about mid-table. But I’m prepared for an arse-wobble if we don’t pick up a good few points from the next 6 games.
I don't think you're far off with that summary.
Even without the necessary additions in January, I still think this crop of players are good enough to carry us to a respectable finish.
Until January, even early February, I still expect results/performances to yo-yo on a weekly basis as when we do sign new players they'll need time to settle in and make their impression.
We'll see what happens.
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Of the six teams currently below us, we have played five, hammering Plymouth and squeeking past ten man Bury, losing to Rochdale and Wimbledon and drawing with Gillingham. It is a modest record.
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We've played all 6
We lost to Northampton too,
An important factor in your analysis is that 5 of these 6 games were away from home.
So not that modest really
Of the 6 sides directly above us we've played 4 of them and beat 2, drawn with 2 and lost to none of them.
8 points from 4 games and no defeats.
An excellent record
3 of these 4 games were at home
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Sorry, you are right - we lost to Northampton as well. I am not sure it is credible to expect any saviour in playing these teams at home - we have won as many games away as at home this season in the league and only two teams in the entire league have won less than us at home. It is not on th basis of evidence, any kind of advantage for us this season.
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Sorry, you are right - we lost to Northampton as well. I am not sure it is credible to the point expect any saviour in playing these teams at home - we have won as many games away as at home this season in the league and only two teams in the entire league have won less than us at home. It is not on th basis of evidence, any kind of advantage for us this season.
I thought you might ignore the point about us getting 2ppg against the 6 sides immediately above us..
As I said 3 of these 4 were at home which kind of makes a nonsense of your arguement
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Sorry, you are right - we lost to Northampton as well. I am not sure it is credible to the point expect any saviour in playing these teams at home - we have won as many games away as at home this season in the league and only two teams in the entire league have won less than us at home. It is not on th basis of evidence, any kind of advantage for us this season.
I thought you might ignore the point about us getting 2ppg against the 6 sides immediately above us..
As I said 3 of these 4 were at home which kind of makes a nonsense of your arguement
Not when you take into account that we have won as many away games as home games.
With our ppg record against the teams below us that doesn't bode well.
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But we're unbeaten against the 6 sides above us! This is a prime example of the negative people ignoring anything that is positive.
Our home record is better than our away record regardless of how many we've won,
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But we're unbeaten against the 6 sides above us! This is a prime example of the negative people ignoring anything that is positive.
Our home record is better than our away record regardless of how many we've won,
Not considering rose tinted specs people ignoring any negatives then and thinking all is rosy.
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Who's suggesting everything's rosy?
Your mate suggested our record against the 6 sides below us isn't very good,
I pointed out the record against the 6 above us was extremely good.
Neither of you can bring yourselves to acknowledge this
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Who's suggesting everything's rosy?
Your mate suggested our record against the 6 sides below us isn't very good,
I pointed out the record against the 6 above us was extremely good.
Neither of you can bring yourselves to acknowledge this
How can our record against the six sides immediately above us be considered as very good when we have only played four of them ?
Maybe that can be judged when we have played them.
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Sorry, you are right - we lost to Northampton as well. I am not sure it is credible to expect any saviour in playing these teams at home - we have won as many games away as at home this season in the league and only two teams in the entire league have won less than us at home. It is not on th basis of evidence, any kind of advantage for us this season.
How about the fact that all three of those home wins have come in the past 5 home league games? And perhaps you add into that the superb home win against Scunthorpe in the Cup. That makes it W4 D1 L1 in our last 6 home games against L1 opponents.
Like I’ve said times many, we struggled to find our feet early in this season. But we’ve been in really quite reasonable form for a while now, especially at home. Seems odd that the more our form and performances improve, the more you insist that we are rubbish.
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Who's suggesting everything's rosy?
Your mate suggested our record against the 6 sides below us isn't very good,
I pointed out the record against the 6 above us was extremely good.
Neither of you can bring yourselves to acknowledge this
How can our record against the six sides immediately above us be considered as very good when we have only played four of them ?
Maybe that can be judged when we have played them.
You just can't bring yourself to do it can you?
Ok we've played 4 of the 6 sides above us winning 2and drawing 2.
I.e. No defeats
By the way it was your mate who begun the compare and attempted to compare 5 results from those 6 below us!
You must have missed that
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Who's suggesting everything's rosy?
Your mate suggested our record against the 6 sides below us isn't very good,
I pointed out the record against the 6 above us was extremely good.
Neither of you can bring yourselves to acknowledge this
How can our record against the six sides immediately above us be considered as very good when we have only played four of them ?
Maybe that can be judged when we have played them.
You just can't bring yourself to do it can you?
Ok we've played 4 of the 6 sides above us winning 2and drawing 2.
I.e. No defeats
By the way it was your mate who begun the compare and attempted to compare 5 results from those 6 below us!
You must have missed that
First of all, the poster you are calling "my mate" is not known to me, apart from his forum name of course.
Secondly, i didn't miss the 5 / 6 game thing.
However, he did apologise and correct himself when it was pointed out to him.
You have to abide by the same rules though when making comparisons though, trying to compare our record against six teams when it is actually only four.
Also, i think a point was being made that our record against the teams below us isn't good.
After it was pointed out that we had mostly played them away a poster said that our wins at home only matched our away wins so playing the teams below us doesn't guarantee that we will beat them.
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Bloody hell folks!
We are too close to the wrong end of the table, and need to pick up points regardless of the opposition and their relative positions in the table, at home and away..
The games that have gone are past.
The most important game of the season is the next one, and then the next one after etc..
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I agree,
Just winds me up same people going on about the past and finding something negative about everything
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Yep, and those people who say everything is ok because we aren't in the bottom three/ picked up so many points in the last so many games / blew a title when we should have won it easily / are playing well but not winning / accept that one ppg (ish) is acceptable etc wind other posters up too.
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I've never once said everythings all ok, I can just acknowledge improvement. And not just ignore it just because I've never liked the manager.
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can't we all just wait until after the next 4 games have been played before carrying on this very interesting [sic] debate?
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BJW, another 4 games ?
Earlier in the season we had people saying lets wait until 10 games, then it was 15 and then it was Christmas (next four games).
Not having a pop at you here but i wonder what will be the next "deadline" if we are still in a precarious position after the next four games ?
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BJW, another 4 games ?
Earlier in the season we had people saying lets wait until 10 games, then it was 15 and then it was Christmas (next four games).
Not having a pop at you here but i wonder what will be the next "deadline" if we are still in a precarious position after the next four games ?
I actually looked before when you/MrFrostsdad said "people were saying wait until 10 games in" - can you point me to who said that?
I picked the next 4 games as it's general consensus that these are winnable games against teams around/below us, so we will be more clearer as to which direction we are going.
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TBH bob, there were numerous times when the 10/15 game thing was written about.
However, i am sorry but i can't take the time out to search for them.
I agree that the next four games are ones where we have a realistic chance of winning but sadly our inconsistencies don't fill me with confidence that it will happen.
I would be delighted if it happens.
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I do think DF & Staff etc read our comments and if so they are in no doubt that the supporters who and by his own admition are entitled to aire stong views . I also believe it’s because our following is few unlike larger ckubs that it has more clout and if attendances are to grow ; its the over all view of everyone that needs to be considered.