Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Alan Southstand on February 19, 2018, 09:59:24 pm
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Fergie was talking about the recent draws against some decent sides post-match Saturday. He said Charlton had a budget 'six or seven times bigger' than his.
A little bit of context. #drfc
Quote from journo in Free Press. Really does make you think about what we're up against, trying to get back to the Championship. Money doesn't guarantee anything, but there is no wonder we are where we are!
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Fergie was talking about the recent draws against some decent sides post-match Saturday. He said Charlton had a budget 'six or seven times bigger' than his.
A little bit of context. #drfc
Quote from journo in Free Press. Really does make you think about what we're up against, trying to get back to the Championship. Monet doesn't guarantee anything, but there is no wonder we are where we are!
Just shows budgets are not the be all and end all then. On that basis Charlton are under achieving and should just about be already promoted and Shrewsbury should be in the bottom 6
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Fergie was talking about the recent draws against some decent sides post-match Saturday. He said Charlton had a budget 'six or seven times bigger' than his.
A little bit of context. #drfc
Quote from journo in Free Press. Really does make you think about what we're up against, trying to get back to the Championship. Monet doesn't guarantee anything, but there is no wonder we are where we are!
Monet is probably painting a different picture then Alan.
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Sorry Fellas, but for that to be true Charlton would be massively in breach of the League One Salary Cost Management Protocol.
They do not benefit from parachute money, so the hated owners would need to be putting in a fortune in loans converted to equity to make it possible.
I can't really believe this unless some proof is available.
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According to the Swiss Ramble tweets posted on this forum, in 2015/16 Wigan spent £11.9m on wages, the highest in League 1 (slightly higher than Sheff Utd). Only possible presumably due to PL parachute payments.
Rovers apparently spent £4.1m on wages in that same season. Not all clubs' data is available, but I'd expect that to be about average for this division.
Even if Rovers' wage bill has reduced since then, to say £3m, which I doubt, Charlton would still have to be shelling out £18 - 21m on wages for Fergie's claim to be true.
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What would we do with £18m . We barley spent half that much in the last 5 years never mind in one. There should be an automatic cap on wages and transfer fees , if football has a future .
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Clearly Fergie was exaggerating, but his point holds true that some clubs in this league - Charlton, Wigan, Blackburn especially - have vastly superior budgets to Rovers making the task all the more difficult.
Even if two of those sides go up this year the problem will remain when they are replaced by Birmingham, Hull or Sunderland as looks likely at the moment.
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What would we do with £18m . We barley spent half that much in the last 5 years never mind in one. There should be an automatic cap on wages and transfer fees , if football has a future .
I would think we will have spent around 18- 20 million over the last 5 years.
So how is that barely half?
You have got a real downer on our owners haven’t you. As I keep saying be careful what you wish for.
Do you want a well run club which is financially sound and will still here in 5/10/20 + years time,
or do you want boom and bust. Charlton Athletic along with many other clubs are not financially sound. I know which I prefer.
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Campsall, I suggest you check your comments on Shrewsbury. They were second to Bury in their summer dealings and have since added to their squad in January. They are definately going for it this season.
As for proof, Alfie, you're never going to get that, as no-one really knows our own figures.
It's funny, isn't it, this is the first real indicator we've had from anyone senior at the Club and straight away, people are jumping on the comments and questioning whether they're true or not!
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Campsall, I suggest you check your comments on Shrewsbury. They were second to Bury in their summer dealings and have since added to their squad in January. They are definately going for it this season.
As for proof, Alfie, you're never going to get that, as no-one really knows our own figures.
It's funny, isn't it, this is the first real indicator we've had from anyone senior at the Club and straight away, people are jumping on the comments and questioning whether they're true or not!
Do you think Charlton have a budget of £18m - £21m Alan? - could you identify where this has been spent?
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Campsall, I suggest you check your comments on Shrewsbury. They were second to Bury in their summer dealings and have since added to their squad in January. They are definately going for it this season.
As for proof, Alfie, you're never going to get that, as no-one really knows our own figures.
It's funny, isn't it, this is the first real indicator we've had from anyone senior at the Club and straight away, people are jumping on the comments and questioning whether they're true or not!
Dealings and budgets are different though. They brought in a few yes.
The bookies had them favourites to finish bottom before the season started.
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Charlton have made a lot of money from selling players, they are entitled to spend what they want to get promoted.
We can only spend what the owners are willing to allow us. Like it or not we don’t have a choice, until someone else potentially buys the club.
How do things stand after Dick Watson’s death? I presumed him and TB went halves on covering any shortfall. Will TB have to cover it all on his own now or are the Watson family still going to put money in?
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Isn't part of our business plan now that we develop players who we will then sell on?
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Isn't part of our business plan now that we develop players who we will then sell on?
I believe that is the case but we don’t bring many through to our own first team.
Maybe another Alick Jeffrey will come along one day.
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Vaya, I can't even tell you what our spend is, never mind Charlton! I don't give a damn about what Charlton do or don't pay out.
Don't ask me the questions, ask someone at the Club.
Or, 'don't shoot the messenger' as the saying goes.
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Charlton have made a lot of money from selling players, they are entitled to spend what they want to get promoted.
We can only spend what the owners are willing to allow us. Like it or not we don’t have a choice, until someone else potentially buys the club.
How do things stand after Dick Watson’s death? I presumed him and TB went halves on covering any shortfall. Will TB have to cover it all on his own now or are the Watson family still going to put money in?
Gazlaz do you not think a plan will have been put in place to cover such an eventuality.
Our owners are not the Trotters from Peekham. Give them some credit. Andy Watson Dick’s son is on the board isn’t he.
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Vaya, I can't even tell you what our spend is, never mind Charlton! I don't give a damn about what Charlton do or don't pay out.
Don't ask me the questions, ask someone at the Club.
Or, 'don't shoot the messenger' as the saying goes.
So what you're saying is you've no idea what Charlton's budget is, what our budget is, but we are where we are in terms of league position as a result of the respective budgets. Although you don't know what they are.
Think that's cleared that up.
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That’s Peckham of course. Don’t know where Peekham is.
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Vaya, read what the quoted statement says and that
should
clear things up! Either that, or seek out and clearly state on here what the situation is, rather than insinuate I don't know what I'm talking about. It is my opinion what I think about the statement and clearly, you don't seem to have one!
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Vaya, read what the quoted statement says and that should
clear things up! Either that, or seek out and clearly state on here what the situation is, rather than insinuate I don't know what I'm talking about. It is my opinion what I think about the statement and clearly, you don't seem to have one!
Alan, with the greatest of respect, you've initially said " there's no wonder we are where we are" in the context of the size of Charlton's budget, then gone on to say you've no idea what out budget is, or what Charlton's is.
You're more than entitled to your opinion, but it seems a little confusing for people when by your own admission you've formed it without knowing either of the parameters involved.
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Have you read the quote?
If so, it should be perfectly clear to you and anyone else who might be remotely interested, how I have formed my opinion.
If it isn't perfectly clear, then I would suggest that it's you who has the problem. Whatever our budget is, Charlton's is reputed to be 6 or 7 times bigger. How clear does it need to be?
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The accounts are due with Companies House by the end of March, so we will then see the overall staff costs for the last financial year.
Staff costs include the players, but also other employees. The budget that DF is referring to is presumably the amount he has to spend on the playing resources.
I think some are forgetting that the playing budget needs to be seen in the context of the profit and loss position of the club overall.
For example, if Charlton spent £14m on staff costs in 2016, but that was matched by a £13.5m operating loss, then the road to the poor house opens up.
The Charlton owners are trying to sell the club at the moment. Loading it up with debt beforehand does not seem very sensible to me.
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Isn't part of our business plan now that we develop players who we will then sell on?
I believe that is the case but we don’t bring many through to our own first team.
Maybe another Alick Jeffrey will come along one day.
Not much chance or that with EPPP. The first sniff of potential he'd be gone to a PL club for about £20K.
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Isn't part of our business plan now that we develop players who we will then sell on?
I believe that is the case but we don’t bring many through to our own first team.
Maybe another Alick Jeffrey will come along one day.
Not much chance or that with EPPP. The first sniff of potential he'd be gone to a PL club for about £20K.
It's a lot less than £20k for a club like ours with a lower rank academy
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Isn't part of our business plan now that we develop players who we will then sell on?
I believe that is the case but we don’t bring many through to our own first team.
Maybe another Alick Jeffrey will come along one day.
Not much chance or that with EPPP. The first sniff of potential he'd be gone to a PL club for about £20K.
Which is why it will be difficult for our club to develop and sell young promising players.
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What would we do with £18m . We barley spent half that much in the last 5 years never mind in one. There should be an automatic cap on wages and transfer fees , if football has a future .
We would probably water it down
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THE BUDGETT SHOULD BE AN INDICATION OF THE BOARDS AMBITION FOR THE SEASON TO COME.THE MANAGER SHOULD HAVE A SAY IN WHAT HE NEEDS TO TAKE THE TEAM FOREWARD.THE TROUBLE ROVERS HAVE NOW IS THERE IS NO FOOTBALL MAN ON THE BOARD WHO CAN HAVE SERIOUS SAY TO WHAT IS NEEDED.ITS NO SECRET THAT I HAVE NEVER LTKED THE OWNERSHIP AND SOME OF THEIR IDEAS.THE TEAM SEEM TO TAKE SECOND PLACE IN THEIR THOUGHTS WHAT DO THEY WANT A TEAM THAT COULD BE LOOKING AT AT LEAST A CHALLENGE FOR A PLAY OFF PLACE OR A TEAM LOOKING OVER THEIR SOULDERS AT RELEGATION PLACRS
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Acko you are talking absolute rubbish.. we are in better shape off the field and who do you think gave the go ahead to sign Whiteman and the two emergency defenders?
Oh and by now you should know “netiquette”..
If you don’t, then google it!
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THE BUDGETT SHOULD BE AN INDICATION OF THE BOARDS AMBITION FOR THE SEASON TO COME.THE MANAGER SHOULD HAVE A SAY IN WHAT HE NEEDS TO TAKE THE TEAM FOREWARD.THE TROUBLE ROVERS HAVE NOW IS THERE IS NO FOOTBALL MAN ON THE BOARD WHO CAN HAVE SERIOUS SAY TO WHAT IS NEEDED.ITS NO SECRET THAT I HAVE NEVER LTKED THE OWNERSHIP AND SOME OF THEIR IDEAS.THE TEAM SEEM TO TAKE SECOND PLACE IN THEIR THOUGHTS WHAT DO THEY WANT A TEAM THAT COULD BE LOOKING AT AT LEAST A CHALLENGE FOR A PLAY OFF PLACE OR A TEAM LOOKING OVER THEIR SOULDERS AT RELEGATION PLACRS
How are things looking at Hull Acko?
ARE THEY OKAY?
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Didn’t Charlton sell a player for £11m? Not surprising they have more money but with the exception of around six clubs I would expect our budget to be as competitive as the rest. At the end of the day however it’s how the budget is spent and whether the manager can get the best out of the players.
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Didn’t Charlton sell a player for £11m? Not surprising they have more money but with the exception of around six clubs I would expect our budget to be as competitive as the rest. At the end of the day however it’s how the budget is spent and whether the manager can get the best out of the players.
Lookman to Everton. £7.5M rising to £11M.
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Our budget is probably decent, in this league, judging by size of our club compared to others. At the moment its just handicapped by some presumably high earners (Williams/Evina) who aren't really part of the plan.
Then theres also Lund and Etheridge who i know we got rid of but they still would take a cut of any budget up by paying wages and terminating contracts. Once all these players are off the books hopefully that money can add the extra quality to take us where we should be in the league!
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We have to be financially efficient although the players still on the books suggest it could be better. However, that didn't stand in the way of recent over and above acquisitions.
I shudder to think of the wastage at some other clubs as we're not used to trading at some of the levels we see, nor can we.
I'm still more comfortable with relative prudence as I think the fall out from failing to achieve with double or triple the budget would bring even less patience from the fans!
The formula remains the same at any level in terms of managing a club well, and putting together a team that performs consistently.
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THE BUDGETT SHOULD BE AN INDICATION OF THE BOARDS AMBITION FOR THE SEASON TO COME.THE MANAGER SHOULD HAVE A SAY IN WHAT HE NEEDS TO TAKE THE TEAM FOREWARD.THE TROUBLE ROVERS HAVE NOW IS THERE IS NO FOOTBALL MAN ON THE BOARD WHO CAN HAVE SERIOUS SAY TO WHAT IS NEEDED.ITS NO SECRET THAT I HAVE NEVER LTKED THE OWNERSHIP AND SOME OF THEIR IDEAS.THE TEAM SEEM TO TAKE SECOND PLACE IN THEIR THOUGHTS WHAT DO THEY WANT A TEAM THAT COULD BE LOOKING AT AT LEAST A CHALLENGE FOR A PLAY OFF PLACE OR A TEAM LOOKING OVER THEIR SOULDERS AT RELEGATION PLACRS
Stop shouting please.
What are our owners if not 'football men'? Are most clubs owned by former players like, or are they owned by successful businessmen? Our ownership have been at the helm for over a decade in which time they have guided us to our best run in the league system since the 1950's. More importantly than that, they have kept us steady financially and we are now apparently in a better position on that front than we have been in a very long time. We are competing at the level a club our size should expect to be able to. What is the problem?
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We have to be financially efficient although the players still on the books suggest it could be better. However, that didn't stand in the way of recent over and above acquisitions.
I shudder to think of the wastage at some other clubs as we're not used to trading at some of the levels we see, nor can we.
I'm still more comfortable with relative prudence as I think the fall out from failing to achieve with double or triple the budget would bring even less patience from the fans!
The formula remains the same at any level in terms of managing a club well, and putting together a team that performs consistently.
Absolutely bang on. Why can’t some others see it though?
Our business and playing model should be to follow clubs like Burnley and Preston.
Preston are a club I think is probably a club we can aspire to follow. Yes they have some great history but you have to go back to the 1950’s the last time they were in the top flight. Since then they have trawled all three divisions below. They are are a club that get gates of around 12,000 and are and have been holding there own for a number of years in the second tier. One season they may make the play offs AGAIN as they did it once or maybe twice. Their day in the sun may happen very soon.
No reason we cannot do what they have done. We are potentially as big a club as they are.
We just need to establish ourselves in the Championship again over a sustained period and our fan base will build. This season our ave gate is 8,000 for a bottom half 3rd tier club THATS GOOD.
Another 4000 no problem inc away fans season. Remember 2008/09 ave gate 11,940
Patience is needed. We can do it. BELIEVE. Rome was not built in a day.
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THE BUDGETT SHOULD BE AN INDICATION OF THE BOARDS AMBITION FOR THE SEASON TO COME.THE MANAGER SHOULD HAVE A SAY IN WHAT HE NEEDS TO TAKE THE TEAM FOREWARD.THE TROUBLE ROVERS HAVE NOW IS THERE IS NO FOOTBALL MAN ON THE BOARD WHO CAN HAVE SERIOUS SAY TO WHAT IS NEEDED.ITS NO SECRET THAT I HAVE NEVER LTKED THE OWNERSHIP AND SOME OF THEIR IDEAS.THE TEAM SEEM TO TAKE SECOND PLACE IN THEIR THOUGHTS WHAT DO THEY WANT A TEAM THAT COULD BE LOOKING AT AT LEAST A CHALLENGE FOR A PLAY OFF PLACE OR A TEAM LOOKING OVER THEIR SOULDERS AT RELEGATION PLACRS
How do you describe a 'football man' that you'd like to make Rovers' business decisions? If we are to aim higher we need people running the club that know how to run a business to it's best potential, not play football. Perhaps you'd be happier if we let McIndoe loose with the DRFC credit card?
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THE BUDGETT SHOULD BE AN INDICATION OF THE BOARDS AMBITION FOR THE SEASON TO COME.THE MANAGER SHOULD HAVE A SAY IN WHAT HE NEEDS TO TAKE THE TEAM FOREWARD.THE TROUBLE ROVERS HAVE NOW IS THERE IS NO FOOTBALL MAN ON THE BOARD WHO CAN HAVE SERIOUS SAY TO WHAT IS NEEDED.ITS NO SECRET THAT I HAVE NEVER LTKED THE OWNERSHIP AND SOME OF THEIR IDEAS.THE TEAM SEEM TO TAKE SECOND PLACE IN THEIR THOUGHTS WHAT DO THEY WANT A TEAM THAT COULD BE LOOKING AT AT LEAST A CHALLENGE FOR A PLAY OFF PLACE OR A TEAM LOOKING OVER THEIR SOULDERS AT RELEGATION PLACRS
How do you describe a 'football man' that you'd like to make Rovers' business decisions? If we are to aim higher we need people running the club that know how to run a business to it's best potential, not play football. Perhaps you'd be happier if we let McIndoe loose with the DRFC credit card?
I'd say life long Rovers fans Andy Watson is as much a football man as any of us are.
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appologise for the cappital letter writing but it was done for me by a nurse in the hospital im in.But i stand by what was said and i thought this was a chat line so people can voice their oppinions.that does not seem to be the case,if an oppinion is not what certain other people beleave you stand to be insulted.vaya thinks everybody should agree with him after all he knows everything.
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appologise for the cappital letter writing but it was done for me by a nurse in the hospital im in.But i stand by what was said and i thought this was a chat line so people can voice their oppinions.that does not seem to be the case,if an oppinion is not what certain other people beleave you stand to be insulted.vaya thinks everybody should agree with him after all he knows everything.
How are things at Hull acko? - I'm interested in your opinion.
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appologise for the cappital letter writing but it was done for me by a nurse in the hospital im in.But i stand by what was said and i thought this was a chat line so people can voice their oppinions.that does not seem to be the case,if an oppinion is not what certain other people beleave you stand to be insulted.vaya thinks everybody should agree with him after all he knows everything.
Most replies are merely expressing the differing opinion in a respectful manner. I can't speak for Vaya but otherwise this has been a perfectly reasonable exchange of discourse so far.
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We have to be financially efficient although the players still on the books suggest it could be better. However, that didn't stand in the way of recent over and above acquisitions.
I shudder to think of the wastage at some other clubs as we're not used to trading at some of the levels we see, nor can we.
I'm still more comfortable with relative prudence as I think the fall out from failing to achieve with double or triple the budget would bring even less patience from the fans!
The formula remains the same at any level in terms of managing a club well, and putting together a team that performs consistently.
Absolutely bang on. Why can’t some others see it though?
Our business and playing model should be to follow clubs like Burnley and Preston.
Preston are a club I think is probably a club we can aspire to follow. Yes they have some great history but you have to go back to the 1950’s the last time they were in the top flight. Since then they have trawled all three divisions below. They are are a club that get gates of around 12,000 and are and have been holding there own for a number of years in the second tier. One season they may make the play offs AGAIN as they did it once or maybe twice. Their day in the sun may happen very soon.
No reason we cannot do what they have done. We are potentially as big a club as they are.
We just need to establish ourselves in the Championship again over a sustained period and our fan base will build. This season our ave gate is 8,000 for a bottom half 3rd tier club THATS GOOD.
Another 4000 no problem inc away fans season. Remember 2008/09 ave gate 11,940
Patience is needed. We can do it. BELIEVE. Rome was not built in a day.
I've often looked at Burnley as a club whose achievements we could emulate.
I've lived not far from Burnley for 30 years and know several of their fans and a bit about the town and its history.
It's not a big place; Donny has a much bigger population. And Burnley are a relatively small club but extremely well-managed.
If they can make it to the Premiership, not once but twice in recent years, then I hold onto the hope that we could achieve the same, or at least sustain a presence in the 2nd tier.
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We have to be financially efficient although the players still on the books suggest it could be better. However, that didn't stand in the way of recent over and above acquisitions.
I shudder to think of the wastage at some other clubs as we're not used to trading at some of the levels we see, nor can we.
I'm still more comfortable with relative prudence as I think the fall out from failing to achieve with double or triple the budget would bring even less patience from the fans!
The formula remains the same at any level in terms of managing a club well, and putting together a team that performs consistently.
Absolutely bang on. Why can’t some others see it though?
Our business and playing model should be to follow clubs like Burnley and Preston.
Preston are a club I think is probably a club we can aspire to follow. Yes they have some great history but you have to go back to the 1950’s the last time they were in the top flight. Since then they have trawled all three divisions below. They are are a club that get gates of around 12,000 and are and have been holding there own for a number of years in the second tier. One season they may make the play offs AGAIN as they did it once or maybe twice. Their day in the sun may happen very soon.
No reason we cannot do what they have done. We are potentially as big a club as they are.
We just need to establish ourselves in the Championship again over a sustained period and our fan base will build. This season our ave gate is 8,000 for a bottom half 3rd tier club THATS GOOD.
Another 4000 no problem inc away fans season. Remember 2008/09 ave gate 11,940
Patience is needed. We can do it. BELIEVE. Rome was not built in a day.
I've often looked at Burnley as a club whose achievements we could emulate.
I've lived not far from Burnley for 30 years and know several of their fans and a bit about the town and its history.
It's not a big place; Donny has a much bigger population. And Burnley are a relatively small club but extremely well-managed.
If they can make it to the Premiership, not once but twice in recent years, then I hold onto the hope that we could achieve the same, or at least sustain a presence in the 2nd tier.
Absolutely. If there was no chance football would die.
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appologise for the cappital letter writing but it was done for me by a nurse in the hospital im in.But i stand by what was said and i thought this was a chat line so people can voice their oppinions.that does not seem to be the case,if an oppinion is not what certain other people beleave you stand to be insulted.vaya thinks everybody should agree with him after all he knows everything.
A nurse with spelling and punctuation just as appalling as yours? Even down to not putting a space after a full stop? That's an amazing coincidence.
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We have to be financially efficient although the players still on the books suggest it could be better. However, that didn't stand in the way of recent over and above acquisitions.
I shudder to think of the wastage at some other clubs as we're not used to trading at some of the levels we see, nor can we.
I'm still more comfortable with relative prudence as I think the fall out from failing to achieve with double or triple the budget would bring even less patience from the fans!
The formula remains the same at any level in terms of managing a club well, and putting together a team that performs consistently.
Absolutely bang on. Why can’t some others see it though?
Our business and playing model should be to follow clubs like Burnley and Preston.
Preston are a club I think is probably a club we can aspire to follow. Yes they have some great history but you have to go back to the 1950’s the last time they were in the top flight. Since then they have trawled all three divisions below. They are are a club that get gates of around 12,000 and are and have been holding there own for a number of years in the second tier. One season they may make the play offs AGAIN as they did it once or maybe twice. Their day in the sun may happen very soon.
No reason we cannot do what they have done. We are potentially as big a club as they are.
We just need to establish ourselves in the Championship again over a sustained period and our fan base will build. This season our ave gate is 8,000 for a bottom half 3rd tier club THATS GOOD.
Another 4000 no problem inc away fans season. Remember 2008/09 ave gate 11,940
Patience is needed. We can do it. BELIEVE. Rome was not built in a day.
I've often looked at Burnley as a club whose achievements we could emulate.
I've lived not far from Burnley for 30 years and know several of their fans and a bit about the town and its history.
It's not a big place; Donny has a much bigger population. And Burnley are a relatively small club but extremely well-managed.
If they can make it to the Premiership, not once but twice in recent years, then I hold onto the hope that we could achieve the same, or at least sustain a presence in the 2nd tier.
Pancho Reagan, I think Burnley are are one off to be honest. For a town of 80,000 people and a carchment of only 130,000 including Colne, Nelson, surrounding villages and Skipton in Yorkshire as I know a lot there support Burnley ( nearest league club ) They are a remarkable Club to keep getting into the top flight. Early 1960’s they were one of the best teams in the country with probably THE best youth set up in the country.
I liken Rovers more to Preston due to population and catchment, although ours is still considerably more. 300.000 to preston’s of around 200,000
Type of history over the last 45/50 years. There’s is better but they have had bad times as well as good. Burnley I know came down to the 4th tier in early 80’s as well I know.
We have more potential than a lot of people realise I think. Doncaster is the largest town (MBC) that isn’t a City in the country.
Food for thought.
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A lot in the Halifax area support Burnley as well. In the 60s coached used to run from Bradford on a Saturday for fans wanting to watch a first division game.