Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Filo on April 18, 2018, 11:40:12 am
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I noticed last night that there were notices up at the centre exit in the west stand stating that it will not be used next season. This will create congestion at the two other exits at the end of the games. A daft decision in my opinion
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Yes I noticed that too, can't think of any sensible reason why they would do this. Will definitely cause congestion.
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Surely it can only be either cost cutting or health and safety.
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Surely it can only be either cost cutting or health and safety.
Something to do with the disabled using it I think, but why would the disabled use a staircase when there are lifts?
As far as health and safety is concerned the Stadium was designed and built with three exit points for a reason, and that was probably to stop congestion and an even spread of people exiting the stadium
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It's a Health and Safety decision taken after a recent inspection. I had intended to find out more detail at this Saturday's Supporters Board Meeting. Its not an action that the club are totally happy with.
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It's a Health and Safety decision taken after a recent inspection. I had intended to find out more detail at this Saturday's Supporters Board Meeting. Its not an action that the club are totally happy with.
Would n't you agree that congesting the other two exits is a health and safety issue?
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It's a Health and Safety decision taken after a recent inspection. I had intended to find out more detail at this Saturday's Supporters Board Meeting. Its not an action that the club are totally happy with.
Would n't you agree that congesting the other two exits is a health and safety issue?
There's only one exit from the East stand, that copes quite well.
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It's a Health and Safety decision taken after a recent inspection. I had intended to find out more detail at this Saturday's Supporters Board Meeting. Its not an action that the club are totally happy with.
Would n't you agree that congesting the other two exits is a health and safety issue?
There's only one exit from the East stand, that copes quite well.
Theres less people in the east stand
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It's a Health and Safety decision taken after a recent inspection. I had intended to find out more detail at this Saturday's Supporters Board Meeting. Its not an action that the club are totally happy with.
Just out of interest what was the actual reason why the health and safety took this action..It seems odd on the face of it how 2 exits can be safer than 3??..
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I cannot see why an exit which is a stairway only is to be used by the disabled.
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Perhaps they should concentrate their efforts on stewarding the exit from car park 2! Always standing around at the junction when a simple alternate control system by a couple of them would avoid an accident/incident waiting to happen?
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That makes no sense at all. the stand will have been modelled to cope with the forecasted flow of people (admittedly when full) and include disable numbers within that model as well. This in turn makes sure that the door openings, routes, distances (for fire etc) and so on are compliant with the regulations.
If this design changes then the whole process will need carrying out again to make sure the alterations will not create any knock on effect.
If it is a H&S risk why wait until next season, why not change it now if serious enough
All makes very bizarre reading. Is this some H&S bloke who is pushing his weight around?
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Perhaps they should concentrate their efforts on stewarding the exit from car park 2! Always standing around at the junction when a simple alternate control system by a couple of them would avoid an accident/incident waiting to happen?
They're not allowed to direct traffic.
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Compromising H/S is illegal , so one can only asume the closure of the exit is for another issue and therefore it is only be to used in emergencies.
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I don't have all the answers, as I said I intended to dig into this further. But it's definitely arisen form the latest H&S visit. The notices have been put up to give people plenty of notice but I understand a concession is to be made for any disabled people who wish to use it.
Two exits can cope with the amount of people occupying the west stand, and as I pointed out the east copes very well with just one.
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They did try it at one game earlier this season and it was a nightmare. There were many people who complained and it was re opened for the next match. That time the reason for shutting it apparently was for security reasons. The East exit is at ground level though so the risk from pushing and falling isn't as much a problem.
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A fair bit of congestion in the West exits is caused by some people who are less able on their feet who want to get out straight aftter the final whistle, to get down the stairs quickly and who take up one side of the staircase due to the way they have to hold the rail and position their body, it doesn't help when people are pushing from the back and can't see these less able people
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It's a Health and Safety decision taken after a recent inspection. I had intended to find out more detail at this Saturday's Supporters Board Meeting. Its not an action that the club are totally happy with.
Would n't you agree that congesting the other two exits is a health and safety issue?
There's only one exit from the East stand, that copes quite well.
Theres less people in the east stand
Capacity of the East stand is 3790 and the West has 3670.
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It's a Health and Safety decision taken after a recent inspection. I had intended to find out more detail at this Saturday's Supporters Board Meeting. Its not an action that the club are totally happy with.
Would n't you agree that congesting the other two exits is a health and safety issue?
There's only one exit from the East stand, that copes quite well.
Theres less people in the east stand
Capacity of the East stand is 3790 and the West has 3670.
I'm not talking about the capacity, I'm talking about the number of people that actuall use the stand. You said the east stand copes with one exit, it will do when reduced numbers use it
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it's not the capacity it's the amount of people who use it..There are way more people use the west stand than the east stand on a normal matchday..And you can add to that the corporate clients and premier lounge members who go in the bar afterwards as opposed to leaving the stadium..
That said it's not going to make a massive difference to exiting the ground but just seems a daft idea that will hinder more than it helps but that's the hse for you..
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It's a Health and Safety decision taken after a recent inspection. I had intended to find out more detail at this Saturday's Supporters Board Meeting. Its not an action that the club are totally happy with.
Would n't you agree that congesting the other two exits is a health and safety issue?
There's only one exit from the East stand, that copes quite well.
Theres less people in the east stand
Capacity of the East stand is 3790 and the West has 3670.
I'm not talking about the capacity, I'm talking about the number of people that actuall use the stand. You said the east stand copes with one exit, it will do when reduced numbers use it
Yes I realise that, but you're stating that the West needs 3 exits and the east survives on 1. It's obvious that you sit in the west as you assume there are more people in there, try looking at it from the East side and I think you'll find there's not as many as you think.
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it's not the capacity it's the amount of people who use it..There are way more people use the west stand than the east stand on a normal matchday..And you can add to that the corporate clients and premier lounge members who go in the bar afterwards as opposed to leaving the stadium..
That said it's not going to make a massive difference to exiting the ground but just seems a daft idea that will hinder more than it helps but that's the hse for you..
Seriously WC? Way more?
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yep I would say so when you take the actual numbers who exit the stadium straight after the game..I sit in the South and there always looks a lot more people in the west stand..Then you can add the people who go to the bar..But it's a argument not worth having either way it's not the end of the world...
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It's a Health and Safety decision taken after a recent inspection. I had intended to find out more detail at this Saturday's Supporters Board Meeting. Its not an action that the club are totally happy with.
Would n't you agree that congesting the other two exits is a health and safety issue?
There's only one exit from the East stand, that copes quite well.
Theres less people in the east stand
Capacity of the East stand is 3790 and the West has 3670.
So has the ground capacity been reduced quite considerably then? Based on those figures it would mean the South and North stands have a capacity of 4,000 each (approximately)
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Reduced? Not sure what you mean.
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Come on SM, it is clear that the East Stand has less fans in it than the West. I sit in the middle of the South every single game so I have an equal good view of both those stands and the West is always much fuller than the East. Especially when you take out the most populated area of the East - the premier lounge seats - from where all of those folks won't even be using the 'common' exits at ground level.
It is clear that "the East Stand copes with one exit open so the West will cope with two" is blatantly not a sensible assertion.
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It's a Health and Safety decision taken after a recent inspection. I had intended to find out more detail at this Saturday's Supporters Board Meeting. Its not an action that the club are totally happy with.
Would n't you agree that congesting the other two exits is a health and safety issue?
There's only one exit from the East stand, that copes quite well.
There's effectively 2 exits in the East stand as a a considerable proportion are Premier Lounge users who use the bar after the match and then exit via the stairs & lobby.
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None of the 3 West Stand exits allow for easy passage with the twists and Turns. The one in question is probably the worst to exit with the Double Doors followed by a 90 degree left and 3 90 degree rights
I always hoped there would be Evacuation Doors put in say opposite each Male Toilet with a Roller Shutter Door only opened at Full Time (or in an Emergency) exiting in a straight direction with no Corners to negotiate. This would obviously have had a "cost" in monetary terms and the loss of some space in front of the West Stand
The Steps at each end of the West are a bit better having just 3 twists - 90 Degree Rights or Lefts depending on the end you leave from but I stopped using them because people watching the TV proved an obstruction (may not be on now) together with the people taking a Pee before adding themselves to the "throng"
As I said none of the three are ideal
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Come on SM, it is clear that the East Stand has less fans in it than the West. I sit in the middle of the South every single game so I have an equal good view of both those stands and the West is always much fuller than the East. Especially when you take out the most populated area of the East - the premier lounge seats - from where all of those folks won't even be using the 'common' exits at ground level.
It is clear that "the East Stand copes with one exit open so the West will cope with two" is blatantly not a sensible assertion.
Its a nonsense of an argument, which is why I've been treating it so flippantly.
And I didn't write what you've just typed out either. Don't use quotation marks when you're not quoting me accurately.
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Reduced? Not sure what you mean.
I will ask the question differently then. What is the capacity of the South and North stands.
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Reduced? Not sure what you mean.
I will ask the question differently then. What is the capacity of the South and North stands.
I'll ask.
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Come on SM, it is clear that the East Stand has less fans in it than the West. I sit in the middle of the South every single game so I have an equal good view of both those stands and the West is always much fuller than the East. Especially when you take out the most populated area of the East - the premier lounge seats - from where all of those folks won't even be using the 'common' exits at ground level.
It is clear that "the East Stand copes with one exit open so the West will cope with two" is blatantly not a sensible assertion.
Its a nonsense of an argument, which is why I've been treating it so flippantly.
And I didn't write what you've just typed out either. Don't use quotation marks when you're not quoting me accurately.
Now you're just being pedantic. In so many words that is what you were trying to say, and it isn't the case.
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Its the second time that I've pointed out that you have misquoted my posts to change the meaning. I'm not pedantic I'm annoyed.
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The fact that the east stand concourse is at ground level makes a significant difference to the ease of exit. It is the stairways that cause the congestion in the west stand whereas in the east there are several stairways down to ground level which move much more freely, the movement through the single exit is much better. Don't forget that the east stand capacity is significantly less than the figure you have given SM since the north end was converted to accommodate away support. It is years since the east was used to accommodate home support.
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Might be an idea to move the tv screen away from the Southern stairwell in West Stand, there’s always a crowd watching scores on way out
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Its the second time that I've pointed out that you have misquoted my posts to change the meaning. I'm not pedantic I'm annoyed.
Fine. Your exact words were
"There's only one exit from the East stand, that copes quite well."
It was in response to someone else asking if you felt congesting the other two exits in the West stand would cause another Health & Safety issue. Now your implication is that it won't cause an issue because the East copes with only having one open. It's clear though that the lesser number of fans in the stand makes a difference there.
That's quite simple. I'm glad you're seeking clarification on the issue at the weekend, I appreciate the job you do on behalf of the fans but it would help if you were a little less cagey in your responses to fans on here sometimes. I believe the points raised about the number of fans in each stand and the fact the East Stand exit is at ground level are very valid points raised.
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Intrigued to hear what the health and safety issues are
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Its the second time that I've pointed out that you have misquoted my posts to change the meaning. I'm not pedantic I'm annoyed.
Fine. Your exact words were
"There's only one exit from the East stand, that copes quite well."
It was in response to someone else asking if you felt congesting the other two exits in the West stand would cause another Health & Safety issue. Now your implication is that it won't cause an issue because the East copes with only having one open. It's clear though that the lesser number of fans in the stand makes a difference there.
That's quite simple. I'm glad you're seeking clarification on the issue at the weekend, I appreciate the job you do on behalf of the fans but it would help if you were a little less cagey in your responses to fans on here sometimes. I believe the points raised about the number of fans in each stand and the fact the East Stand exit is at ground level are very valid points raised.
Good, I'm glad we cleared that up. And as I explained earlier I was being flippant because I thought it was a non-issue.
But to be serious for a 2nd, the West Stand currently has 3 exits. Given that there are more people in the West (debatable to be exact) then reducing the 3 to 2 shouldn't make an awful difference if the East copes well with one. Surely there's logic there? If you did observe the fans leaving the stadium you will have noticed that it takes longer for the East stand to clear the bowl than it does anywhere else. Both the South and the West clear the bowl and get people onto the concourse much quicker. Even with that log jam in the East (because it has one main bowl exit and because it has to clear individuals from top to bottom of the stand) it still clears in a matter of a few minutes.
As for appreciating the work I do then I thank you, but I would also hazard a guess that you don't know what I do, or how much time I spend doing it. I am cagey at times because some of the information I have shouldn't really be coming my way at all, and because I'm not the club spokesman then I am careful with what I say. If I was careless with the information then club officials would not seek me out for advice/discussions as they do. That has to be a positive and honesty has been our philosophy since the early days of IRWT.
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A good response and more than satisfactory on this issue, SM.
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Am I right in saying, not spent a lot of time in the east stand, that you move down to ground level through the seats and then out directly at ground level. In the west stand you go down a curved set of steps, both ends and then directly out of the stadium. Therefore you you have more congestion at the top and on the stairs as you go out of the stadium. Has this been taken into consideration when closing one of the exits? Is it relevant?
COYR
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After a series of communications with the club I think we can put this one to bed;
The central stairwell on the West stand is not an entry/exit route.
The route in question is the designated safe refuge area in case of fire, and in our case, will be used by our disabled supporters. It's designed to withstand a longer period of smoke and fire and give time for supporters to be evacuated in a timely fashion by stewards or fire service.
All stadium capacities for ingress and egress are calculated on the two stair exits at either end of the concourse. If you mirror this to the East stand you could say there are three exits one at each end next to the turnstile entrance and the entry/exit route from the concourse into the East reception. This route is not a normal exit route and not part of the safe capacity calculations.
Although the club have been happy for it to be used but now its been highlighted during the inspection the club have to act. The Safety Officer will have no choice but to comply.
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That makes sense now it's been explained.
Thanks SM.
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If the West stand isn't more populated than the East on a match day then it's an optical illusion.
It always looks way more full anyway from behind the goal, not even taking into account that the bottom end of the East stand (towards the North) isn't even open most of the time.
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If the West stand isn't more populated than the East on a match day then it's an optical illusion.
It always looks way more full anyway from behind the goal, not even taking into account that the bottom end of the East stand (towards the North) isn't even open most of the time.
Neither is the top end of the West stand.
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After a series of communications with the club I think we can put this one to bed;
The central stairwell on the West stand is not an entry/exit route.
The route in question is the designated safe refuge area in case of fire, and in our case, will be used by our disabled supporters. It's designed to withstand a longer period of smoke and fire and give time for supporters to be evacuated in a timely fashion by stewards or fire service.
All stadium capacities for ingress and egress are calculated on the two stair exits at either end of the concourse. If you mirror this to the East stand you could say there are three exits one at each end next to the turnstile entrance and the entry/exit route from the concourse into the East reception. This route is not a normal exit route and not part of the safe capacity calculations.
Although the club have been happy for it to be used but now its been highlighted during the inspection the club have to act. The Safety Officer will have no choice but to comply.
Thanks for the explanation, much appreciated. WhatI don't get is if its that much of an issue with Health and Safety why is it still being used for the rest of this season? And why has it took 11 years of continued use, and as far as I'm aware no incidents for them to suddenly decide it should not be used anymore?
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If the West stand isn't more populated than the East on a match day then it's an optical illusion.
It always looks way more full anyway from behind the goal, not even taking into account that the bottom end of the East stand (towards the North) isn't even open most of the time.
Neither is the top end of the West stand.
There appears to be more West Stand blocks open than the East from where I sit.
I know the stands are slightly different but there must be an extra 1/2 to 1 full block open in the West usually.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
(https://preview.ibb.co/btc6e7/eaststand.png) (https://ibb.co/k0STsS)
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Nobody is disagreeing with you pib. Don't know what point you wish to pursue.
It's a nothing argument.
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Nobody is disagreeing with you pib. Don't know what point you wish to pursue.
It's a nothing argument.
I'm not arguing or pursuing a point, I'm just interested. Sorry that you interpret it that way.
As sad as it might be, I'm just interested in our stadium. Not every contribution to the forum is an argument.
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So back to the main point - I am reading your Post SM as that in the event of a fire any Disabled Fans unable to exit via (say) the Lifts would be housed in that area - rather than use that route as an escape Route. Then they could be helped from the Ground when help arrived in an orderly
If so that does make sense.
My next question which I am sure you will know the answer to (as I think I do) - is there is a further floor above that area. So would the people up there be able to exit the Stadium ( probably yes via Press Box area) and so not be blocked in via the Disabled people and probably their carers who may be in that area in the case of the Emergency evacuation ?
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Nobody is disagreeing with you pib. Don't know what point you wish to pursue.
It's a nothing argument.
I'm not arguing or pursuing a point, I'm just interested. Sorry that you interpret it that way.
As sad as it might be, I'm just interested in our stadium. Not every contribution to the forum is an argument.
Apologies pib, I had assumed you were disagreeing with my posts.
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So back to the main point - I am reading your Post SM as that in the event of a fire any Disabled Fans unable to exit via (say) the Lifts would be housed in that area - rather than use that route as an escape Route. Then they could be helped from the Ground when help arrived in an orderly
If so that does make sense.
My next question which I am sure you will know the answer to (as I think I do) - is there is a further floor above that area. So would the people up there be able to exit the Stadium ( probably yes via Press Box area) and so not be blocked in via the Disabled people and probably their carers who may be in that area in the case of the Emergency evacuation ?
Wolfy, yes that's the right understanding. It's a safe refuge area first and foremost, and is constructed to withstand fire for much longer periods so those who are physically incapable of using the main exits can gather there. Apparently all stadiums have to have them.
On your second point. Its not an exit route therefore people gathered around the press box and control room would make their escape into the bowl area and follow normal procedures.
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So back to the main point - I am reading your Post SM as that in the event of a fire any Disabled Fans unable to exit via (say) the Lifts would be housed in that area - rather than use that route as an escape Route. Then they could be helped from the Ground when help arrived in an orderly
If so that does make sense.
My next question which I am sure you will know the answer to (as I think I do) - is there is a further floor above that area. So would the people up there be able to exit the Stadium ( probably yes via Press Box area) and so not be blocked in via the Disabled people and probably their carers who may be in that area in the case of the Emergency evacuation ?
Wolfy, yes that's the right understanding. It's a safe refuge area first and foremost, and is constructed to withstand fire for much longer periods so those who are physically incapable of using the main exits can gather there. Apparently all stadiums have to have them.
On your second point. Its not an exit route therefore people gathered around the press box and control room would make their escape into the bowl area and follow normal procedures.
In that case the notice at the exit is rather confusing. It does state disabled amd authorised personnel I believe. My understanding of that would be that control room and press personnel would be allowed to use this exit?
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So back to the main point - I am reading your Post SM as that in the event of a fire any Disabled Fans unable to exit via (say) the Lifts would be housed in that area - rather than use that route as an escape Route. Then they could be helped from the Ground when help arrived in an orderly
If so that does make sense.
My next question which I am sure you will know the answer to (as I think I do) - is there is a further floor above that area. So would the people up there be able to exit the Stadium ( probably yes via Press Box area) and so not be blocked in via the Disabled people and probably their carers who may be in that area in the case of the Emergency evacuation ?
Wolfy, yes that's the right understanding. It's a safe refuge area first and foremost, and is constructed to withstand fire for much longer periods so those who are physically incapable of using the main exits can gather there. Apparently all stadiums have to have them.
On your second point. Its not an exit route therefore people gathered around the press box and control room would make their escape into the bowl area and follow normal procedures.
In that case the notice at the exit is rather confusing. It does state disabled amd authorised personnel I believe. My understanding of that would be that control room and press personnel would be allowed to use this exit?
Authorised personnel would be stewards and anybody else who would be trained in evacuation procedures.