Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: BillyStubbsTears on June 15, 2018, 10:44:22 am
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So. It’s started.
I’ll put my two pennorth in. Russia and Saudi Arabia must be two of the worst sides to play in the finals since Scotland last qualified. Absolutely appalling quality. I’d fancy the Rovers to beat all 22 of them.
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Saudi were terrible, the system they played didn’t help them either. They didn’t have the defenders to pull it off. Russia are a poor side by European standards as well you’re right.
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Some quality goals even taking into account the poor defending. England forwards take note!
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Must admit it was League 2 quality at best
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Loved Cheryshev's two goals. But no, neither of those sides are going to contend for the gold trophy.
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I’d suggest neither side will get out of the group unless Russia were hiding some reserves of quality.
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Bizarre though to have five goals in the opening match. In the past the first game was usually cautious and dull. Is this competition likely to be low on quality generally?
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I’d suggest neither side will get out of the group unless Russia were hiding some reserves of quality.
They are about 1/6 to qualify from the group. I think that’s probably a bad price.
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I’d suggest neither side will get out of the group unless Russia were hiding some reserves of quality.
They are about 1/6 to qualify from the group. I think that’s probably a bad price.
I wonder what their price was before yesterday's game? I can see 2/9 for them but reckon Egypt is worth a punt at 13/8 - I would still favour them to qualify, and glad to see they've left Salah on the bench for today; they're better off easing him in with half an hour in the hardest game and then have him hitting top level against the two poorer teams.
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I’d suggest neither side will get out of the group unless Russia were hiding some reserves of quality.
both countries have untapped "reserves" or should we say things in the pipeline didn't watch the match but after seeing Saudis very recent result a mere 2-1 defeat to Germany - presumably in Germany -- expected if Russia were to win it would only be by the odd goal - results like this just don't happen in the first match perhaps the Saudis lost their NERVE or were influenced by foreign bodies ….
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I’d suggest neither side will get out of the group unless Russia were hiding some reserves of quality.
They are about 1/6 to qualify from the group. I think that’s probably a bad price.
I wonder what their price was before yesterday's game? I can see 2/9 for them but reckon Egypt is worth a punt at 13/8 - I would still favour them to qualify, and glad to see they've left Salah on the bench for today; they're better off easing him in with half an hour in the hardest game and then have him hitting top level against the two poorer teams.
Salah must be still in a lot of pain not to be playing. If Egypt were to get a draw in this game it would be huge for them in regards to how the group plays out.
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I’d suggest neither side will get out of the group unless Russia were hiding some reserves of quality.
They are about 1/6 to qualify from the group. I think that’s probably a bad price.
A draw with Egypt may well send them through though....
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I see the Uruguay coach has the same syndrome or still recovering from the one Kiwomya had.
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f**k me this Morocco v Iran game. National League standard.
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You have teams like Saudi Arabia, Iran and Morocco playing in the World Cup and the likes of Italy, Holland and chille sat at home. Should 5 teams from both Asia and Africa be awarded places. I can see the argument for both sides but the standard of football in the first 3 games has been awful.
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So. It’s started.
I’ll put my two pennorth in. Russia and Saudi Arabia must be two of the worst sides to play in the finals since Scotland last qualified. Absolutely appalling quality. I’d fancy the Rovers to beat all 22 of them.
I've just watched 2 worse sides Billy, and worse by a long way.
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And now we have the battle of the cheats.
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Saudi were terrible, the system they played didn’t help them either. They didn’t have the defenders to pull it off. Russia are a poor side by European standards as well you’re right.
Saudi didn't have any quick wide men but they insisted on playing it wide all the time. Their best football can through the middle, they had a couple of decent ball players but didn't use them effectively. Poor, poor tactics.
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You have teams like Saudi Arabia, Iran and Morocco playing in the World Cup and the likes of Italy, Holland and chille sat at home. Should 5 teams from both Asia and Africa be awarded places. I can see the argument for both sides but the standard of football in the first 3 games has been awful.
It's the World Cup, and so important that the world is represented in the finals. I love the group stage including it's more dire games, in a similar way that I love the earlier rounds of the FA Cup. I can't wait for a giant or two to fall.
The Saudi's were poor in many ways, but some of their close triangle play was very classy. Iceland at the Euros were fantastic.
My beef is players not born in the country they play for, eg:
Portugal now with 3 French, one German, Cape Vedian, Angolan, and a Brazilian
Spain with 2 Brazilans and an Italian.
I realise this generally helps smaller countries like Ireland, but tis just wrong.
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Saudi were terrible, the system they played didn’t help them either. They didn’t have the defenders to pull it off. Russia are a poor side by European standards as well you’re right.
Saudi didn't have any quick wide men but they insisted on playing it wide all the time. Their best football can through the middle, they had a couple of decent ball players but didn't use them effectively. Poor, poor tactics.
Sounds oddly familiar...
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Well this game is excellent. Early penalty, all Spain since then, and then a howler from De Gea of all people. 2 goals for Ronaldo, all set up for a great second half.
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You can't count Portugal out of anything. Very content to counter attack.
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Having seen Portugal’s second goal reminded me of a post about Karius in the CL Final after he let the long shot from Bale beat him.
Someone said that you would never see a keeper of the quality of DeGea letting one in like that.
Whoops.
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Unbelievable side Spain. How were they not favourites!
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A proper lesson in how to pass the ball.
I can imagine some of our supporters not liking it though, “gerrit forrard” comes to mind.
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They've been absolutely tremendous. Brazil, Germany, France etc have some job on their hands stopping them. The movement and understanding between their players is a different level.
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What a player, brilliant free kick
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Stop it Ronaldo, just stop it
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The Ronaldo show will take a bit of gloss off how good Spain were. Miles better side.
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Yep but love him or loathe him Ronaldo is an absolute belter of a footballer - he can do everything.
Spain were brilliant, great players, what a goal from nacho, fabulous football and yet Ronaldo just bided his time and waited to nullify it all. He is simply class.
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Typical hand a bet on Spain to win then when Portugal took the lead had them to at least cover my losses then they went and drew ffs
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You have teams like Saudi Arabia, Iran and Morocco playing in the World Cup and the likes of Italy, Holland and chille sat at home. Should 5 teams from both Asia and Africa be awarded places. I can see the argument for both sides but the standard of football in the first 3 games has been awful.
I'd personally rather watch a variety of different quality teams from a variety of continents, than have a closed shop with all the so-called "top" nations in. It's what the World Cup is all about.
Yes some of the players/teams on show so far haven't been great, but can't really complain with the twists and turns that have been served up so far. A 5-0 thrashing, two last-gasp winners, and tonights Portugal-Spain thriller. It's not all about watching "total football" and every game being of breathtaking quality for me.
It's shaping up to be a brilliant tournament already.
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You have teams like Saudi Arabia, Iran and Morocco playing in the World Cup and the likes of Italy, Holland and chille sat at home. Should 5 teams from both Asia and Africa be awarded places. I can see the argument for both sides but the standard of football in the first 3 games has been awful.
I'd personally rather watch a variety of different quality teams from a variety of continents, than have a closed shop with all the so-called "top" nations in. It's what the World Cup is all about.
Yes some of the players/teams on show so far haven't been great, but can't really complain with the twists and turns that have been served up so far. A 5-0 thrashing, two last-gasp winners, and tonights Portugal-Spain thriller. It's not all about watching "total football" and every game being of breathtaking quality for me.
It's shaping up to be a brilliant tournament already.
It Just got me thinking that the World Cup is ment to be the best of the best but theirs a few sides that are rovers level. I’m not complaining though, I like to see games like Sweden vs Columbia or Denmark vs Peru... I can remember when Senegal shocked the world and beat France In 2002.
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But it is the best of the best. The best countries as decided by qualifying tournaments from each of their respective confederations compete in the World Cup. There you go.
If the shite countries didn't get in, they'd have no incentive or ability to improve.
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I think it’s great so far Iran top a group that contains Spain and Portugal haha brilliant hope they get though
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You have teams like Saudi Arabia, Iran and Morocco playing in the World Cup and the likes of Italy, Holland and chille sat at home. Should 5 teams from both Asia and Africa be awarded places. I can see the argument for both sides but the standard of football in the first 3 games has been awful.
It could get worse (or better depending on peoples viewpoints) as the 2026 World Cup just "won" by the shared Nations Bid of USA Canada Mexico which will have 48 Teams in it.
2022 will remain as 32
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You have teams like Saudi Arabia, Iran and Morocco playing in the World Cup and the likes of Italy, Holland and chille sat at home. Should 5 teams from both Asia and Africa be awarded places. I can see the argument for both sides but the standard of football in the first 3 games has been awful.
I'd personally rather watch a variety of different quality teams from a variety of continents, than have a closed shop with all the so-called "top" nations in. It's what the World Cup is all about.
Yes some of the players/teams on show so far haven't been great, but can't really complain with the twists and turns that have been served up so far. A 5-0 thrashing, two last-gasp winners, and tonights Portugal-Spain thriller. It's not all about watching "total football" and every game being of breathtaking quality for me.
It's shaping up to be a brilliant tournament already.
It Just got me thinking that the World Cup is ment to be the best of the best but theirs a few sides that are rovers level. I’m not complaining though, I like to see games like Sweden vs Columbia or Denmark vs Peru... I can remember when Senegal shocked the world and beat France In 2002.
Does the WC claim to be the best of the best though? It’s called the World Cup not the best of the best cup. I like to see teams from all over the world. The smaller countries getting to compete against the big boys is great for them. Look at Iran yesterday, Morocco were expected to beat them and they caused an upset.
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Every WC has its games that people will talk about in hushed tones in half a century.
Brazil vs Italy in 82.
France vs Brazil in 86.
Nothing in 90 because it was shite.
Romania vs Argentina in 94.
Netherlands vs Argentina in 98.
Etc.
I think we might have seen this year’s one last night. That was football as exhilarating as you could ever wish to see. And I cannot stand Ronaldo as a person, but he is undoubtedly the finest player of all time.
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“Undoubtedly”. He is arguably the finest player of all time but I think there are plenty of doubts - Lionel Messi.
Was an unbelievable game last night though. I wouldn’t be disheartened as a Spain fan though - they’ve really laid a marker there and will be interesting to see how France & Argentina get on today as a comparison.
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Ronaldo has a significant edge on Messi for me.
He has that ability to impose his will on situations which Messi has never done at the top international level. Last night was a career-defining performance. Portugal are a very ordinary side but Ronaldo made them match a superb Spain sidevthrough his own strength of will and ability. It was reminiscent of Maradona in 86 making a bang ordinary Argentina the world champions. Ronaldo did that to some extent in the Euros in 2016 but last night was a step up.
I’ve never seen Messi do that.
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I’d suggest neither side will get out of the group unless Russia were hiding some reserves of quality.
Russia will get out of the group because it is a very weak one. Always happens with the host nation.
They will lose in the Round of 16 unless they get lucky with their opponents though.
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Ronaldo has a significant edge on Messi for me.
He has that ability to impose his will on situations which Messi has never done at the top international level. Last night was a career-defining performance. Portugal are a very ordinary side but Ronaldo made them match a superb Spain sidevthrough his own strength of will and ability. It was reminiscent of Maradona in 86 making a bang ordinary Argentina the world champions. Ronaldo did that to some extent in the Euros in 2016 but last night was a step up.
I’ve never seen Messi do that.
Messi is the only player to have scored competitively for Argentina since November 2016. Given their attacking talent (Aguero, Higuain, Dybala, Icardi, Di Maria) that is remarkable. He single handedly dragged Argentina to the World Cup. I remember watching their match v Ecuador which they needed to win to qualify. He rattled in a hat-trick. Ronaldo might be carrying Portugal, but Messi is carrying a far worse Argentina side.
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Iceland can make any team look bad. Here it is how great Iceland are playing :bscarf:
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Chaps lets not forget one thing. Before the Champions League (Cue 4 "champions" from England) we had the REAL European Cup not European super league, and we had such as Malta Hibernians vs Man Utd at T'Qali- the one pitch in Malta. If we embrace the FA Cup surely we embrace the underdog concept, and if teams from "lesser skilled nations" get their world cup dream then I have every support for them. They know they can't compete on a level playing field so lets get behind them. If we took that concept then Newcastle wouldn't have lost at Hereford?? Eh?
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Maradona rubbing his nose :police: :police: :police:
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Love Iceland, class performance, exactly what I adore about the world cup. The Aussies were very unlucky earlier.
I make that Ronaldo 3 Messi -3 :laugh:
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Dodgy penalty decisions in both games. Even VAR doesn't always get it right
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Ronaldo will be laughing his b*llocks off this weekend.
Disappointed in the Argies. France were poor aswell though to be honest. I thought the penalty in the France game was a penalty and also Argentina should’ve had a second penalty and would’ve if the referee had used his VAR.
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I think there was enough doubt over the one given against the Aussies for it to be right not to give it
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The Ronaldo show will take a bit of gloss off how good Spain were. Miles better side.
That’s the whole point of just what an astonishing performance it was from Ronaldo.
Spain’s players were performing at 8-9/10 across the piece. Portugal’s were 5-6/10. Apart from Ronaldo. He, on his own, made the two sides balanced.
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Just watching the Croatians get a penalty awarded and the commentators are making a big deal out of the fact that the defender had his arms around the Croation forward, saying what a stupid thing it is to do.
Don’t we see that week in week out at Rovers games?
There really should be more refs giving pens for stuff like this.
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Just watching the Croatians get a penalty awarded and the commentators are making a big deal out of the fact that the defender had his arms around the Croation forward, saying what a stupid thing it is to do.
Don’t we see that week in week out at Rovers games?
There really should be more refs giving pens for stuff like this.
They have been over the last season or so, especially at the top level. I guess it just takes a while for it to filter down to the lower league refs, who, on the whole, are poor.
I remember they made a huge deal about it at the start of last season and loads were given in the premier league.
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Anyone else bored to tears by the Ronaldo v Messi debate?
Different players, both brilliant in different ways. Enjoy watching them both. Don't understand why people (not on here) get so partisan about it.
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Smalling does it at most set plays every week for Man Unt.
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Just watching the Croatians get a penalty awarded and the commentators are making a big deal out of the fact that the defender had his arms around the Croation forward, saying what a stupid thing it is to do.
Don’t we see that week in week out at Rovers games?
There really should be more refs giving pens for stuff like this.
Agreed. The BBC commentator on the highlights programme basically said that it's the type of thing that isn't given often but many want to see it given more often. A nailed on penalty.
Five penalties awarded today in four games, two with VAR. One of those two (France) wasn't a penalty to me, but all the others were and Argentina probably should've had another too for the foul at the byline on Pavon.
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Ronaldo has a significant edge on Messi for me.
He has that ability to impose his will on situations which Messi has never done at the top international level. Last night was a career-defining performance. Portugal are a very ordinary side but Ronaldo made them match a superb Spain sidevthrough his own strength of will and ability. It was reminiscent of Maradona in 86 making a bang ordinary Argentina the world champions. Ronaldo did that to some extent in the Euros in 2016 but last night was a step up.
I’ve never seen Messi do that.
Messi has such perfect balance that he can weave his way through a packed defence with the ball at either side of him.
I've never seen Ronaldo do that.
We can argue all day about who's best, because they both have different attributes; however, it was interesting to hear Ryan Giggs describing Messi as possibly the greatest player that's ever lived, especially when you consider that Giggsy was Ronaldo's team mate.
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Smalling does it at most set plays every week for Man Unt.
I think you could have said "every set play". He just has to be the biggest offender at this "tactic". He would have conceded plenty of Penalties if the Refs were actually awarding them as they should
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Ive just see the way that England will b*llocks this up.
If Mexico beat Germany then its very hard for Getmany to win the group. That means one part of the draw opens right up.
Whoever finished second in England’s group will likely have Poland in R2 and maybe Mexico or Serbia in the QF.
Winners of England’s group would have maybe Colombia in R2 and Brazil in the QF.
You watch. England will go and win the bloody group...
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Tell ya what, even though it's not my favoured style, Mexico have been bloody excellent in that first half.
Some great diagonal balls, using the width, quick counter-attacks. Great to watch - and their goal was well deserved and long overdue. Shame they don't have more bite up top, otherwise they'd be 2 or 3-0 up.
Germany have got to go for it in the second half, but if they push up and chase the game too much, they might get picked off on another counter-attack.
One of the best games of the WC so far.
What exactly is your favoured style? 😂
You’re right though, Mexico have played really well but the BBC highlighted it perfectly at half time - their decision making when they broke wasn’t good enough. If the roles had been reversed and Ozil or Mueller had been in those positions they would have used the ball much more wisely.
Will be interesting to see what changes they make if it stays 1-0 for the next 10, 15 minutes.
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Typical Germany, get to the gates of Moscow and lose big time again he he.
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Surely we would be better off finishing second in our group now as it’s highly unlikely Germany will top there group now?!
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Surely we would be better off finishing second in our group now as it’s highly unlikely Germany will top there group now?!
I’m surprised no-one’s spotted that...
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Are Germany highly unlikely to win the group? Could quite easily see them winning twice and Sweden and South Korea drawing with Mexico. I’d say there’s more chance of them finishing second, but it’s not a long shot for them to still top the group.
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Write Germany off at your peril.
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I don't know how good Brazil will be, but up to now there's only been Spain that's really impressed me, and they would have started with a win had it not been for de Gea letting one in that Ross Etheridge would have saved.
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They have no pace at the back and have been exposed, they are going to meet the same tactics from now on and may struggle to get out of the group.
Germany didn't look to have a plan B, do you think their manager could come to us after the World Cup?
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Write Germany off at your peril.
It’s more the fact that I can’t see Mexico dropping points vs South Korea or Sweden.
I fully expect Germany will still finish on 6 points.
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Decent start to the WC so far. A couple of teams showing more than we thought they might with Mexico and Peru (although the latter lost of course) and couple of big boys in Germany and Argentina looking sluggish. Whilst I still think it'll be the more etablished names left competing in July should Germany finish second in their group that could really shake things up. Ditto whoever finishes second in the Portugal/Spain group.
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Brazil showing they are a team of individuals with probably the most overrated player in world football ever, Neymar.
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The Swiss got off lightly with the fouls. Brazil not great by their standards but will improve. Over to the young Lions!
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The big hitters are not having it all their own way, this World Cup is wide open, I keep daying it, England have a good a chance of winning it than they have for a long time
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f**king hate VAR already. Sick of pundits talking about it.
Boring!
Spoiling the game
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All makes perfect sense so far. Germany lose. Argentina draw. Spain draw. Brazil draw. Of course they do, its the first game of the world cup! Smaller nations qualifying, 100% of the country behind them. Pushing their teams to give that extra 10%, defend with their lives.
Germany and the rest won't panic though. Because they've got world class players, too much composure. They'll build and come again. I bet they feel zero extra pressure. Nada.
Now, when Tunisia do the same to England and get a 'historic' (but not unexpected) draw/win we'll collapse like a pack of cards because we don't have any of the above. And from there its one step away from dominating possession against Panama but failing to break them down, and getting turned over by Belgium. We've been here so many times before boys, go back every two years - 'the draw's opening up for England', 'no one looks strong'. Its incredibly premature, but I guess that's what football is about.
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The big hitters are not having it all their own way, this World Cup is wide open, I keep daying it, England have a good a chance of winning it than they have for a long time
Shhhh!
People may turn their nose up at that comment but I agree. Nice attacking team. If they turn up with no fear of losing then England can go far.
Let's see what tomorrow brings!
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That Neymar, just not good enough at this level. ;)
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Fascinating start.
I think you’d have got decent odds on Spain, Germany, Argentina, France and Brazil only picking up 6 points between them from the opening games.
But it’s a marathon, not a sprint. I still suspect the winner will come from that group.
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As England v Belgium is the last game, they'll both know potential routes to the final. If both teams have six points, and the team finishing second has a easier draw, it will be one hell of a spectacle. Both teams playing to lose.
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As England v Belgium is the last game, they'll both know potential routes to the final. If both teams have six points, and the team finishing second has a easier draw, it will be one hell of a spectacle. Both teams playing to lose.
Aye. Could be fun.
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Willian...Neymar....Coutinho...Neymar...Jesus...Neymar...Marcelo...Neymar...
(All together....)
🎤 When you go, will you send back, a letter from America?
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As England v Belgium is the last game, they'll both know potential routes to the final. If both teams have six points, and the team finishing second has a easier draw, it will be one hell of a spectacle. Both teams playing to lose.
We though we had the easier route when we had to play Iceland in the euros!
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Are Germany highly unlikely to win the group? Could quite easily see them winning twice and Sweden and South Korea drawing with Mexico. I’d say there’s more chance of them finishing second, but it’s not a long shot for them to still top the group.
If Germany do finish second in their group, and Brazil win theirs,it could lead to an interesting position for England....
Presuming both England and Belgium win their first two games and are therefore through - in order to avoid being in the side of the knockout draw that would have both Germany and Brazil - the last group match between them would one where both teams wanted to lose!
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Are Germany highly unlikely to win the group? Could quite easily see them winning twice and Sweden and South Korea drawing with Mexico. I’d say there’s more chance of them finishing second, but it’s not a long shot for them to still top the group.
If Germany do finish second in their group, and Brazil win theirs,it could lead to an interesting position for England....
Presuming both England and Belgium win their first two games and are therefore through - in order to avoid being in the side of the knockout draw that would have both Germany and Brazil - the last group match between them would one where both teams wanted to lose!
Aye. I'm surprised no-one's spotted that...
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Well now. The draw has opened right up for the side that finishes second in England’s group.
Looking like Japan or Senegal in R2, followed by Mexico, Switzerland or Serbia in the QF.
Best chance for a generation for England or Belgium to reach a semi.
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Yep, let’s bring a semi on.
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I've already got a semi on.
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Hold on to your hats, who knows what can happen. We'll need a bit of luck along the way. I still have a feeling for once, a wrong will be put right in one of our games with VAR. Someone's gotta win it.
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What’s wrong with ending up meeting Germany or Brazil in a potential quarter final?
Neither are unbeatable, but there’s no shame in losing to them either especially if the players perform to their best abilities..
If the draw meant England played so called weaker nations then they would still need to play a leading side in the semis..?
There will be some surprises along the way..
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IDM
The point is that the more leading teams you come up against, the more likely you are to meet your match.
The oft-used phrase that you have to beat the best to win is ba-baa. What you want is for the best sides to play each other and knock each other out, while you progress against weaker sides and have as few really hard matches as possible.
Plus, whilst your confidence in our ability to beat Germany and Brazil is laudable, it flies in the face of experience. Other that in 1966, we have never beaten top sides (Brazil, Argentina, Germany, France, Spain, Portugal, Holland or Italy) in the knockout stages of the WC.
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IDM
The point is that the more leading teams you come up against, the more likely you are to meet your match.
The oft-used phrase that you have to beat the best to win is ba-baa. What you want is for the best sides to play each other and knock each other out, while you progress against weaker sides and have as few really hard matches as possible.
Plus, whilst your confidence in our ability to beat Germany and Brazil is laudable, it flies in the face of experience. Other that in 1966, we have never beaten top sides (Brazil, Argentina, Germany, France, Spain, Portugal, Holland or Italy) in the knockout stages of the WC.
Look at Wales getting to the Euro semi. Only had to beat one decent, but very flakey, side to get there. You generally need plenty of luck to win a knock out tournament. They are a bit of a lottery.
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If we do beat Belgium to finish top of the group then we shouldn’t really be fearing anyone
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Dickos
I’m afraid you are missing the point. Very few sides ever win the World Cup by beating a string of top-level opponents. Simple probability tells you how hard that is.
If you play an opponent of similar quality to yourself, you’d expect to progress half the time and not progress half the time. The more high quality opponents you play against, the lower your realistic chances of staying the course become.
If we win this group, the likelihood is that we’d face Brazil (favourites) in the QF and France (3rd favourites) in the Semi with maybe Spain (2nd fav) in the final. No team has ever won the WC by beating the top three favourites.
What you are doing is buying into the romantic ideal that “we shouldn’t fear anyone.” But that’s nonsense. There are many opponents that we should fear and that we’d prefer to avoid for as long as possible.
Imagine a three-sided war. Three evenly-matched armies. Only one side can survive. If you were the general of Army A, would you deliberately do battle with Army B, then take on Army C? Or would you do all you could to make sure C&B did battle whilst you took on the victor? It’s bleeding obvious isn’t it?
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I’m not missing the point
But it’s a very dangerous thing to start saying this side will be easier to play against than this side.
We don’t even know who’s going to qualify yet,
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Ok. This is about decision making without having 100% clear facts.
But here’s a fact. Assuming we beat Panama and Belgium beat Tunisia, by the time we play Belgium we will already know how the path to the semi is looking.
Given that fact, if it looks like winning the group puts you up against, say Japan in R2 then the winner of the Brazil-Germany R2 match in the QF, whereas coming second in the group puts you up against, say, Senegal in R2, then the winners of the Switzerland-Serbia R2 game, which one would you prefer?
Bearing in mind, always, that, aside from 1966, no England side has EVER beaten one of the leading sides in the knock-out phase of the WC.
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Of course both teams might be trying to lose that England v Belgium game!
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Switzerland and Serbia are in the same group so it wouldn’t be the winners of that.
Would be one of them probably v Mexico
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As England v Belgium is the last game, they'll both know potential routes to the final. If both teams have six points, and the team finishing second has a easier draw, it will be one hell of a spectacle. Both teams playing to lose.
I'd have no worries if this was the scenario.
Nobody can lose games like England, we're past masters at it!
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Switzerland and Serbia are in the same group so it wouldn’t be the winners of that.
Would be one of them probably v Mexico
Yes. My mistake. Doesn’t massively change the question though.
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I think we are to nice sometimes..I for one wouldn't have a problem with looking at the group after the 2nd round of matches and if it looks like 2nd gives us a better chance,swap the whole team and take it easy..Belgiums goal difference is likely to be better so a draw or a loss would give us 2nd if required...
Like has been said when there is a dark horse unlikely winner it's normally because they had the easiest passage...Yes we could beat Germany,Spain,Portugal,Brazil in a one off game if the gods are with us..But if we have to play a couple of those on a trot we are unlikely to progress..
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That said I've backed the Spanish to win it and England to go out in the quarters...lol
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IDM
The point is that the more leading teams you come up against, the more likely you are to meet your match.
The oft-used phrase that you have to beat the best to win is ba-baa. What you want is for the best sides to play each other and knock each other out, while you progress against weaker sides and have as few really hard matches as possible.
Plus, whilst your confidence in our ability to beat Germany and Brazil is laudable, it flies in the face of experience. Other that in 1966, we have never beaten top sides (Brazil, Argentina, Germany, France, Spain, Portugal, Holland or Italy) in the knockout stages of the WC.
I’m not saying England could or would beat those sides, more that they are beatable - including by other countries ie look what Mexico did..
I want to see England play well and progress, who that is against us a secondary consideration IMHO..
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Just watching Portugal v Morocco.
Morocco look as though they could get something out of the game.
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Switzerland and Serbia are in the same group so it wouldn’t be the winners of that.
Would be one of them probably v Mexico
Yes. My mistake. Doesn’t massively change the question though.
But not sure you can say playing Mexico would be much easier game than Germany.
Only side they’ve beaten recently is Saudi Arabia.
They could even struggle to qualify
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Right. Would you prefer Brazil or Mexiconin the QF?
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It could be my perception playing false, but there seems to have been a lot fewer yellow and red cards so far. I wonder if this is a subconscious effect of having VAR?
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It could be my perception playing false, but there seems to have been a lot fewer yellow and red cards so far. I wonder if this is a subconscious effect of having VAR?
No, I think the refs have been told to go easy on the cards.
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It could be my perception playing false, but there seems to have been a lot fewer yellow and red cards so far. I wonder if this is a subconscious effect of having VAR?
No, I think the refs have been told to go easy on the cards.
Why do you think that TRB.
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To be fair, there have been very few rank bad fouls.
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Well Portugal were lucky to get away with that victory.
If Morocco had had a bit more composure in attack they would have got at least a draw.
At least England were never in danger of losing to Tunisia.
Without Ronaldo Portugal would be a very average team.
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Well Portugal were lucky to get away with that victory.
If Morocco had had a bit more composure in attack they would have got at least a draw.
At least England were never in danger of losing to Tunisia.
Without Ronaldo Portugal would be a very average team.
Morocco just need a decent striker to put their chances away. Portugal look a poor side but always have a chance with Ronaldo in the side.
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It could be my perception playing false, but there seems to have been a lot fewer yellow and red cards so far. I wonder if this is a subconscious effect of having VAR?
No, I think the refs have been told to go easy on the cards.
Agreed, seems they have used cards really well so far. It could be that VAR gives the refs more confidence all round but they have mainly been good.
A shout out for the linos who have been positive with their decisions, less of the obsequious waiting for the ref to decide on the direction of the throw ins before they flag.
One irritating part of the game that could be clamped down on is opposition players standing in front of the ball when a free kick is given, perventing quick options and gfenerally slowing down play. A ten yard advancement for such things would be good.
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Hound
Aye. But they HAVE got Ronaldo. Just like avery ordinary Argentina had Maradona in 86.
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Ronaldo will only take Portugal so far..
I agree there hasn’t been many times when a red card may have been shown. Maybe that will change once the games become more competitive ie winner takes all?
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Hound
Aye. But they HAVE got Ronaldo. Just like avery ordinary Argentina had Maradona in 86.
Yes they have and we have got Harry Kane.
I would like to know whether the Portuguese supporters are having a pop at their team for “only just beating Morocco” in the same way as some of the English people had a go at our team after the Tunisia game.
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Ronaldo will only take Portugal so far..
I agree there hasn’t been many times when a red card may have been shown. Maybe that will change once the games become more competitive ie winner takes all?
Ronaldo proved two years ago he can drag a very average team to the trophy. They were poor today but Morocco lacked the striker to punish them for it. Good teams will (and have: Spain) make them pay but they can't be discounted with Ronaldo in the side.
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Hound
Aye. But they HAVE got Ronaldo. Just like avery ordinary Argentina had Maradona in 86.
The 1986 Argentina side were pretty decent, it was the 1990 side that was ordinary and totally relied on Maradona to carry them to the final
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Right. Would you prefer Brazil or Mexiconin the QF?
Win group and we could be playing the winners of Serbia v Sweden in quarters.
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It could be my perception playing false, but there seems to have been a lot fewer yellow and red cards so far. I wonder if this is a subconscious effect of having VAR?
No, I think the refs have been told to go easy on the cards.
Why do you think that TRB.
I think FIFA don't feel games with a lot of cards are a good look for the game. Also they don't want "big" players banned in the later stages for picking up trivial yellows. Some refs have taken leniency too far - the one in the Tunisia v England game comes to mind.
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Right. Would you prefer Brazil or Mexiconin the QF?
Win group and we could be playing the winners of Serbia v Sweden in quarters.
Aye ok.
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Really really dislike VAR.
the fallibility of the officials is part of what makes the game.
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I'd rather they get the majority of decisions right in all honesty.
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I'd rather they get the majority of decisions right in all honesty.
Yep, agree.
As much as I want Iran to sneak a point from Spain, it was right to disallow the equaliser.
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Hound
Aye. But they HAVE got Ronaldo. Just like avery ordinary Argentina had Maradona in 86.
The 1986 Argentina side were pretty decent, it was the 1990 side that was ordinary and totally relied on Maradona to carry them to the final
Yep. My mistake.
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Well played Iran, well organised and unlucky with the goal. I can see them doing Portugal
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Well played Iran, well organised and unlucky with the goal. I can see them doing Portugal
I hope they can get a point tonight, they deserve it.
It could also help to eliminate Spain.
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Really really dislike VAR.
the fallibility of the officials is part of what makes the game.
That goal was disallowed by the linesman, who stuck his flag up immediately. VAR merely confirmed it and it was the correct decision.
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Really really dislike VAR.
the fallibility of the officials is part of what makes the game.
That goal was disallowed by the linesman, who stuck his flag up immediately. VAR merely confirmed it and it was the correct decision.
It's not my point.
I want all the officials to get the decisions right without VAR stalling the game.
Just sterilized the game more.
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Aye, cos the officials never just stop the game to deliberate a decision in non-VAR games do they...
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Portugal, Uruguay, and Spain were all crap yesterday against unfancied teams. I've no doubt they'll get better as the tournament progresses, but I honestly don't see why England should fear any of them.
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Spain and Portugal looked average today. It’s pretty open isn’t it?
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The fact even Spain find it hard to break down 11 organised men behind the ball shows how hard it is. People need to cut England a bit of slack when they find it hard work.
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Far too often Englands biggest opponents are the English.
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Yes, there's nothing to fear, just to respect and overcome and I think we have the tools to do it.
VAR is working, apart from in our game! It will be improved over time.
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BB
I think the record suggests that our hardest opponents have been Germany, Brazil and Argentina.
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I'm not suggesting that England have a god given right to be the best, but I believe they are hindered by a lack of the right temperament to be successful. This is not least caused by the British press which seems to prefer condemnation over praise, and the gullible readers who assist them in pouring scorn over the nation.
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Thank god for the world cup,everyone interested,lot's of good banter, and just overshadowing slightly the manager question until next week.
If England do well it can only be good for league football, let's hope they do and people get interested again, a bit of good press after knocking the game for so long can only be good for clubs like ours.
It must be doing well, pushing the little angels who play rugby union off the back page of the London rags, and they are doing their best to help in South Africa.
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BB
I think the record suggests that our hardest opponents have been Germany, Brazil and Argentina.
It is entirely possible that Germany and Argentina will not make the knockout stage. Not likely, but possible all the same.
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Is that right B.B.?
I thought our regular failures were due to our inability to produce sufficient numbers of talented, flexible and intelligent players.
Every tournament, I see an upwelling of optimism and support among fans and media alike. The mood of criticism tends to come AFTER the failure, not before.
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I believe we do produce talented players. I think there might be an issue with the way they are coached, regarding discouraging flair etc, but that doesn't mean the press haven't played their part in our failure nationally.
The English Press and Media generally appear to dislike successful people, sportsmen included.
Steve 'Davis, the best snooker player in the world was called 'Boring' by the press, yet Eddie 'the eagle' Edwards, the rubbish skier, was a hero. Frank Bruno was a hero before he became World Champion, then he was ridiculed after he did!
The England football team is a different commodity in respect of the player's changing all the time, but as a new team is assembled they are tarred with the same brush as the failed old team.
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I believe we do produce talented players. I think there might be an issue with the way they are coached, regarding discouraging flair etc, but that doesn't mean the press haven't played their part in our failure nationally.
The English Press and Media generally appear to dislike successful people, sportsmen included.
Steve 'Davis, the best snooker player in the world was called 'Boring' by the press, yet Eddie 'the eagle' Edwards, the rubbish skier, was a hero. Frank Bruno was a hero before he became World Champion, then he was ridiculed after he did!
The England football team is a different commodity in respect of the player's changing all the time, but as a new team is assembled they are tarred with the same brush as the failed old team.
talking of snooker Peter Ebdon was told early on to grow his hair long and dye it blond ? to get noticed and it worked mind u he did have some ability
"Ebdon turned professional in 1991, sporting a ponytail, he made an impact by beating Steve Davis 10–4 in the first round of the 1992 World Championship;"
same gimmick used by Robbie Savage who made a career out of "not playing football" now we have it in darts
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Don’t doubt any of that B.B. Our tabloid press are a disgusting rabble. But I don’t think that changes the fundamental issue with the quality of players that our system produces.
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How long has Iggy Pop been managing Peru?
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Argentina vs Croatia might be a mini-classic.
Two talented sides not afraid to put the boot in. This is what we’ve been waiting for.
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Reyt. What do I know. That’s been ba-baa.
Tense and physical ba-baa, mind.
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Sisto of Denmark caught my eye today, looking forward to seeing more of him.
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Massive f**k up from Caballero.
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Argentina are really poor.
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They have 4 top class strikers and that’s about it.
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Old coke head, barrel chested, hand of God cheating bas**rdos must be crying his eyes out...
Hahahaha
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Whoosh 3-0
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Messi has been embarrassing. His body language for a captain is a joke.
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Messi ? Pffff not fit to lace Ronaldos boot boys boots.
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Don't cry for me Argentina I only lost £1 on you in a sweepstake at work 😂😂😂
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Messi and Argies manager looked a bag of nerves just before kick-off,defeated before kick-off?
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Argentina is almost Ca-BYE-ero :lol:
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If Iceland win tomorrow it would leave the Argies needing to turn round at least a four goal deficit in the third game even if Iceland were to lose to Croatia.
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What a joy to see Maradona blubbering in the crowd 😂😂😂😂
And who's the best player in the world? Ronaldo or Messi?
Ronaldo carry's his Country, Messi hardly gets a touch when playing for his Country, that says it all, Messi is nothing without the quality Barca players around him
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If Iceland win tomorrow it would leave the Argies needing to turn round at least a four goal deficit in the third game even if Iceland were to lose to Croatia.
If Iceland win tomorrow I predict a nice cosy draw between Iceland and Croatia next Tuesday and b*llocks to Argentina.
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What a joy to see Maradona blubbering in the crowd 😂😂😂😂
And who's the best player in the world? Ronaldo or Messi?
Ronaldo carry's his Country, Messi hardly gets a touch when playing for his Country, that says it all, Messi is nothing without the quality Barca players around him
No point in Rovers trying to get him then.
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(http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/uploads/monthly_2018_06/Untitledddd.png.c2865e89a967883ec699ef9bc401b133.png)
:lol: :thumbsup: :lol: :thumbsup: :lol: :thumbsup: :lol: :thumbsup: :lol: :thumbsup:
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Apparently, There was lightning at the end of the game. Maradona looked up and smiled because he thought it was God taking a photo.
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What a joy to see Maradona blubbering in the crowd 😂😂😂😂
And who's the best player in the world? Ronaldo or Messi?
Ronaldo carry's his Country, Messi hardly gets a touch when playing for his Country, that says it all, Messi is nothing without the quality Barca players around him
No point in Rovers trying to get him then.
Would we want him after that performance?
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their manager could not even stick around to see his players off the pitch at the end. coward.
i would love to hear Jeremy Clarksons take on this :)
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What a joy to see Maradona blubbering in the crowd 😂😂😂😂
And who's the best player in the world? Ronaldo or Messi?
Ronaldo carry's his Country, Messi hardly gets a touch when playing for his Country, that says it all, Messi is nothing without the quality Barca players around him
No point in Rovers trying to get him then.
Would we want him after that performance?
He made Coppinger look even more amazing.
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Old coke head, barrel chested, hand of God cheating bas**rdos must be crying his eyes out...
Hahahaha
Harsh but ..... Revenge at the " hands " of Croatia. Lol
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What a shower - no, not England, the Argies were embarrassing.
What a joy.
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What a shower - no, not England, the Argies were embarrassing.
What a joy.
In fairness, over the past 4 years they’ve got to the final of one World Cup and 2 Copa Americas.
Every side has a dip after a while. When we’ve got a record like that, we can start calling other countries embarrassing.
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Sisto of Denmark caught my eye today, looking forward to seeing more of him.
Yes I spotted him from both games, however as a team they do lack quality ( Erikssen excepted of course ). Don't see that we will get much of a chance God they seem so devoid of ideas most of the time - it's like watching paint dry.
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What a shower - no, not England, the Argies were embarrassing.
What a joy.
In fairness, over the past 4 years they’ve got to the final of one World Cup and 2 Copa Americas.
Every side has a dip after a while. When we’ve got a record like that, we can start calling other countries embarrassing.
Very true Billy but they were poor for most of the game , in fact both games - perhaps it's down to the lunatic that's managing them ? However there are enough players with genuine quality out there to have got that team motoring - they couldn't be bothered where was their leader?
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What a joy to see Maradona blubbering in the crowd 😂😂😂😂
And who's the best player in the world? Ronaldo or Messi?
Ronaldo carry's his Country, Messi hardly gets a touch when playing for his Country, that says it all, Messi is nothing without the quality Barca players around him
Utter rubbish Filo; one of the pundits summed it up when stating how frustrating it must be for Messi to have to play in that Argie team with players who aren't in his class. Do you honestly think Ronaldo would make any difference to that team? they were a f*cking disgrace to their country.
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What a joy to see Maradona blubbering in the crowd 😂😂😂😂
And who's the best player in the world? Ronaldo or Messi?
Ronaldo carry's his Country, Messi hardly gets a touch when playing for his Country, that says it all, Messi is nothing without the quality Barca players around him
Utter rubbish Filo; one of the pundits summed it up when stating how frustrating it must be for Messi to have to play in that Argie team with players who aren't in his class. Do you honestly think Ronaldo would make any difference to that team? they were a f*cking disgrace to their country.
Ronaldo plays in a well structured team that plays to his strengths. Argentina are a shambles. Filo is forming an opinion on two games. If it wasn’t for Messi they wouldn’t even be at the WC. He carried them through qualification single handedly, he even got a hat trick in the last game they needed to win after going a goal down.
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Last World Cup it was ronaldo getting all the stick when Portugal didn’t qualify. And he’d been poor in all their games.
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I’m getting sick of reading how, on the basis of these two games, Messi is finished and the proof is there that Ronaldo is much better. Messi dragged Argentina to the World Cup more or less single handed, are you aware of that Filo or just ignoring it? Ronaldo was phenomenal against Spain but prior to this World Cup he had 3 goals in 13 games despite playing for a team that is built around him - not exactly the record of legends is it?
Ronaldo is an unbelievable athlete whilst Messi is a wizard with the ball at his feet. Can we (and I mean this as football fans generally, not necessarily this forum) not just appreciate that we are lucky enough to have spent the past 10 years watching 2 of the finest footballers of all time?
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Here’s a thing.
Every generation has the privilege to see the greatest player of all time because the game gets that much better.
So Cruyff was better than Pele. Then Maradona was better than Cruyff. Then Zidane was better than Maradona. And now Messi and Ronaldo have been better than Zidane.
I wonder who the next one will be?
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The factor is Argentina aren’t a team just a bunch of individuals not playing for each other, Portugal are a team, a poor to bang average one except they have a superstar who elevates them.
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Every side has a dip after a while. When we’ve got a record like that, we can start calling other countries embarrassing.
I was referring to last night's debacle, Billy! They were anything but the side you are referring to. Just enjoy the fact that it's not us you're having to defend!................yet!
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Here’s a thing.
Every generation has the privilege to see the greatest player of all time because the game gets that much better.
So Cruyff was better than Pele. Then Maradona was better than Cruyff. Then Zidane was better than Maradona. And now Messi and Ronaldo have been better than Zidane.
I wonder who the next one will be?
Agree to an extent but I've never heard anyone say Zidane was better than Maradona, and heard very few people say Cruyff was better than Pele.
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Here’s a thing.
Every generation has the privilege to see the greatest player of all time because the game gets that much better.
So Cruyff was better than Pele. Then Maradona was better than Cruyff. Then Zidane was better than Maradona. And now Messi and Ronaldo have been better than Zidane.
I wonder who the next one will be?
Agree to an extent but I've never heard anyone say Zidane was better than Maradona, and heard very few people say Cruyff was better than Pele.
Zidane is probably the best footballer I’ve ever seen apart from Messi. I think he was better than Iniesta which is saying something.
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Here’s a thing.
Every generation has the privilege to see the greatest player of all time because the game gets that much better.
So Cruyff was better than Pele. Then Maradona was better than Cruyff. Then Zidane was better than Maradona. And now Messi and Ronaldo have been better than Zidane.
I wonder who the next one will be?
Alfie Beestin. 😉
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Here’s a thing.
Every generation has the privilege to see the greatest player of all time because the game gets that much better.
So Cruyff was better than Pele. Then Maradona was better than Cruyff. Then Zidane was better than Maradona. And now Messi and Ronaldo have been better than Zidane.
I wonder who the next one will be?
Agree to an extent but I've never heard anyone say Zidane was better than Maradona, and heard very few people say Cruyff was better than Pele.
Go and watch the videos of them. It’s unquestionable that each generation is better than the previous one in absolute terms. Maybe Cruyf and Zidane didn’t dominate the era like Pele or Maradona did their’s, but they were fundamentally better players than the ones from a decade or so before.
As I say, go and look at the videos. It’s blindingly obvious when you do.
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I know, everything has improved from preparation to mentality so that's no question that in absolute terms they look better. But that doesn't change the fact that when the world talks about the best player there's ever been, they don't say that Zidane was better than Maradona.
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I’m not massively bothered what “they” say. There’s an implicit, unspoken assumption in those assessments, which is that they are judging players relative to the standard of the time. I’m talking about absolute standards.
Journalists often cite the Real Madrid - Eintracht Frankfurt European Cup Final of 1960 as the greatest match of all time. And I’m sure it was relative to it’s era. But in absolute terms?
Go and watch it. Tell me what you think.
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1w8i41
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Messi and Ronaldo have taken in to such heights that it'll be interesting to see what the next "great" achieves. These guys are putting in "goal-a-game" averages season after season and have scored so many hat tricks that the novelty of a hat trick has almost worn off. The player(s) to take their mantle may have to be judged a different way.
In some ways we're spoilt that there are two players to have a debate over. Only going from potted history but has there ever been two players competing for the title of best player for so long that have split opinon?
Pele was by himself, then Cryuff took over, then Maradona, maybe the early 90's was a bit blurry til R9 took over, then Zidane, possibly a Kaka vs Ronaldinho duel for a while after that before Messi and Ronaldo took over for a decade or so.
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Platini v Maradona maybe?
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Platini v Maradona maybe?
Possibly in the mid 80's yes whien France were WC semi finalists and Euro 84 . Once a player shines at a World Cup like Maradona did though it's very hard to argue against. Fat little cheating t**t though he was ;)
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I don't believe players are better now than they used to be. Look at Maradona, that fat bas**rd can't run about now like he used to.
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I don't believe players are better now than they used to be. Look at Maradona, that fat bas**rd can't run about now like he used to.
Brilliant!
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This Brazil v Costa Rica game is not a great advert for South American football. Costa Rica don't seem interested in footballing, and Brazil would rather win a penalty than actually score.
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Don't think Messi gets in the top 10 for best of all time for me. Overrated.
Needs world class players round him.
Always gets found out at world cups.
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Why do people keep banging on about Nigeria's kit being amazing? It is absolutely horrendous!
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Its really all relative as was said earlier. Stanley Matthews, teetotaller, non-smoker who had his own juice drinks was far ahead of the footballer of the era, but still stuck to the rigid 5-3-2 watch that cup final, all one dimensional as the magnificent Magyars showed us mid-50's. Anyone remember that "simulted" boxing bout years ago when TV technology was in its infancy and they had a "fight" Ali v Marciano as if they were in real time, to sort of "prove" who was really the best...silly really as its like comparing tea to coffee....Watched a Pele film/documentary recently where the manager wanted him to not play "ginga" style- the trademark loose dribbling unorthodox passing ...yet it would probably have been Garrincha "little bird" who, if he had fought his drink demons who would have had the ccolades of the era...
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Don't think Messi gets in the top 10 for best of all time for me. Overrated.
Needs world class players round him.
Always gets found out at world cups.
Last World Cup he did well, and he got them qualified all by himself.
To say he’s overrated is ridiculous look at all the goals he’s scored and the quality of his goals.
Never seen anyone run with the ball and beat people as easily as he does
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Iceland have shat it.
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Why do people keep banging on about Nigeria's kit being amazing? It is absolutely horrendous!
You might not like their kit but you must have liked that goal. To quote Alan Partridge's sports commentary "SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIT!"
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Don't think Messi gets in the top 10 for best of all time for me. Overrated.
Needs world class players round him.
Always gets found out at world cups.
I didn't agree with it and thought there were more worthy but Messi did get the Golden Ball for the best player at the 2014 World Cup, not sure if that's him being found out!
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Don't think Messi gets in the top 10 for best of all time for me. Overrated.
Needs world class players round him.
Always gets found out at world cups.
I didn't agree with it and thought there were more worthy but Messi did get the Golden Ball for the best player at the 2014 World Cup, not sure if that's him being found out!
Aye, it raised more than a few eyebrows when he got it.
Just look at his embarrassment when he was 'awarded' it
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If memory serves Messi was handed the golden ball trophy about 10 mins after losing the wc final. I'd have been surprised and disappointed if he had been jumping for joy over a individual award at that point.
Having said that he definitely didn't deserve it, when Germany beat the 2016 Euro finalists 5-0 combined and South America's 2 highest ranked teams 8-1 combined - it's a little difficult to justify not giving it to one of theirs:
Kroos, Muller, ozil ... even neuer or lahm wouldn't have been silly. Messi didn't have a terrible tournement but a last minute winner v Iran isn't player of the tournament stuff for me.
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Switzerland had a referendum a few years ago where they voted to clamp down on immigration. I wonder what their national side would be like now if they’d stopped immigration 40 or 50 years back.
Switzerland squad tonight:
Starting XI
1Sommer
2Lichtsteiner
22Schär
5Akanji
13Rodríguez
11Behrami
10Xhaka
23Shaqiri
15Dzemaili
14Zuber
9Seferovic
Substitutes
3Moubandje
4Elvedi
6Lang
7Embolo
8Freuler
12Mvogo
16Fernandes
17Zakaria
18Gavranovic
19Drmic
20Djourou
21Bürki
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What a massive goal that was for Switzerland in the dying minutes..
Serbia got a uphill task to get out the group now.
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That was the best possible result for Argentina tonight.
Unless I’m wrong, if Iceland don’t beat Croatia (which they probably won’t) then Argentina just need to beat Nigeria to go through.
They will do it, I just know they will.
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Switzerland had a referendum a few years ago where they voted to clamp down on immigration. I wonder what their national side would be like now if they’d stopped immigration 40 or 50 years back.....
Never mind 50 years ago, 9 of the curret squad were born outside Switzerland, and the coach Vladimir Petković (Yugoslavia).
Here's the countries they were born in and at what age they moved to Switzerland.
Starting XI
1 Sommer
2 Lichtsteiner
22 Schär
5 Akanji
13 Rodríguez
11 Behrami (Yugoslavia - 5)
10 Xhaka
23 Shaqiri (Yugoslavia - 2)
15 Dzemaili (Macedonia - 4)
14 Zuber
9 Seferovic (Bosnia and Herzegovina - ?)
Substitutes
3 Moubandje (Cameroon - 8)
4 Elvedi
6 Lang
7 Embolo (Cameroon - 7?)
8 Freuler
12 Mvogo (Cameroon - ?)
16 Fernandes (Cape Verde - 5)
17 Zakaria
18 Gavranovic
19 Drmic
20 Djourou (Côte d'Ivoire - 2)
21 Bürki
So two of them, plus the coach, playing against their country of birth.
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Excellent research BRR.
On top of those 9, I THINK, the following are second generation immigrants:
Akanji
Rodríguez
Xhaka
Zakaria
Gavranovic
Drmic
Bürki
Quite an astonishing mix of players representing a country that has firmly put itself against immigration.
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Put that lot together with Croatia and Serbia, pick the best and Yugoslavia would have a decent side nowadays.
Probably a good job it broke up.
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Excellent research BRR.
On top of those 9, I THINK, the following are second generation immigrants:
Akanji
Rodríguez
Xhaka
Zakaria
Gavranovic
Drmic
Bürki
Quite an astonishing mix of players representing a country that has firmly put itself against immigration.
Don't understand your point, if any country clamped down on immigration 50 years ago, their teams would be massively different.
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I think it's making the point that when the national team makes a clear point for the success of immigration, its an interesting situation to be in given the current position
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What current position?
Surely it's a completely mute point.
If immigration was clamped down on 50 years ago, the course of history would have been completely different, and it's as equally possible that the players would have been just as good, worse, or better.
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What current position?
Surely it's a completely mute point.
If immigration was clamped down on 50 years ago, the course of history would have been completely different, and it's as equally possible that the players would have been just as good, worse, or better.
The trouble is that people don't listen to mute points.😉
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I agree with Boomstick. As interesting a point BST made I'm not sure what his message portrays. It's like asking if we'd banned transfers in the football league 50 years ago, relying on homegrown players only that were born within the area of their local team, how would it have affected individual team's position in the league ladder?
I imagine, although the tables would be dramatically different, the quality of the players wouldn't have been affected.
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Let me get this right Boomstick.
You’re suggesting that if there hadn’t been immigration from Africa and the Balkans to Switzerland, the “indigenous” (stupid word but it’ll do for now) Swiss would have produced better players than they have done?
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Let me get this right Boomstick.
You’re suggesting that if there hadn’t been immigration from Africa and the Balkans to Switzerland, the “indigenous” (stupid word but it’ll do for now) Swiss would have produced better players than they have done?
No I didn't say that, and you know it. Keep grasping at those straws laddo.
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No. Accepted. I misread your post. My apologies.
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It’s notable though, that before the current generation of migrants came to maturity, Switzerland were gash. They made 1 WC Final Tournaments in 40 years from 1966-2006. Since 2006, they’ve made 4 in a row and their record is
P13 W6 D4 L3
with whatvlooks like another qualification from the group stages on the cards.
Makes you think.
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No. Accepted. I misread your post. My apologies.
Thanks, apology accepted.
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It’s notable though, that before the current generation of migrants came to maturity, Switzerland were gash. They made 1 WC Final Tournaments in 40 years from 1966-2006. Since 2006, they’ve made 4 in a row and their record is
P13 W6 D4 L3
with whatvlooks like another qualification from the group stages on the cards.
Makes you think.
Interesting, more likely down to other factors like coaching, facilities and standard of their league improving. IMO
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And no-one else has had those improvements?
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Seems possible that it's a combination of:
1) The money available in Switzerland for football.
2) The increased interest in football due at least partly to a more football interested imigrant population.
3) The specific encouragement of their children by sectors of an immigrant population who have more of a football interest.
4) An immigrant population containing a number of passionate coaches.
To deny the effect of immigration is a bit flat earthed.
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And no-one else has had those improvements?
Definitely, Iceland is a great example. With the smaller footballing countries investing more in their facilities, coaching etc improving the standard of their football, it levels the playing field more (pardon the pun) and makes it harder for teams like holland, Italy and usa to qualify.
After all not not everyone can qualify!
I think improving footballing standards as an argument for the merits of immigration can be put to bed.
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There are many factors that go into national team success or lack thereof. I doubt immigration is a driving factor for Suisse but I'm also sure that the changing make-up of nationality affects teams right across the world. This Tunisia team playing now, many of them are born Frenchmen. Germany's team includes Sami Khedira of Tunisian heritage, plus Turkish origin players Mesut Ozil and Ilkay Gundogan. Spain's star striker is Brazilian. I could go on and on. Look how many of England's squad come from minority backgrounds compared to even 20 years ago. So I'm not greatly sure what your point was originally BST.
Switzerland is situated in central Europe so it stands to reason that as the world has become more globalised, immigration policy or not, there will be many people of many backgrounds travelling to and through the country over the past few decades. French, Italian, German, Austrian, Balkan and so on so it doesn't surprise me much that their squad contains many multi-man players.
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England's pace has probably attributed a lot to immigration and that's probably one of our biggest assets.
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My point was that the Swiss squad is quite exceptional in that there are something like 16 or 17 first or second generation immigrants in it. I’m not aware of any other country having a situation like that.
And, incidentally, a big proportion of those recent migrants are from the Balkans. It is precisely immigration from the Balkans that led to the Swiss referendum vote to tighten up their borders.
I find it fascinating that there are many facets to immigration. It’s far from a 100% negative thing. There’s a lot of talk in here about the national boost that WE would get if we did well in the WC. Presumably tgat also applies to the Swiss. But they are being represented by people that a big proportion of their population don’t want in their country.
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just watched batshui miiss 3 sitters in 10 minutes so put £5 on him at 1000/1
hope lukaku gets injured
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he's got one in a row !!!
just missed another sitter
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Sweden 1-0 Germany
They’re in massive trouble here.
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never need a reason drink but if Germany go out i will party , but i did think think they would win it , it is a world world cup of surprises so far
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Sweden should be two up at the break.
I hope they can go on to win this game.
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And Sweden should have had a penalty. Germany should be down to 10. I expect to see Müller etc going down like kelly dolls as they get desperate. I bet June Brown’s half time talk is priceless.
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Ref just missed an off the ball foul by Müller in the box...
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Even with a draw Germany are really up against it. Sweden only need a draw against Mexico.
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Jammy Kitsons.
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A bit like that third goal of Coppinger against Southend but from the other side.
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f**king jammy bas**rds!
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Never in doubt. They'll win it.
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Never in doubt?
Really?
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Sweden were their own worst enemies. They should have kept the ball at the other end when they had it, then gave away a stupid free kick when they didn't need to.
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Master technicians. Can play shite against team's having the game's of their lives and still have that absolutely ice cold composure. If they start playing well, there's no team can live with them.
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Sweden were their own worst enemies. They should have kept the ball at the other end when they had it, then gave away a stupid free kick when they didn't need to.
Yep, it is really easy just to keep the ball at the other end isn’t it.
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They’ll win the f**king thing now.
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They need to improve defensively, the Germans. Better teams will exploit a week back line.
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They’ll win the f**king thing now.
Of course they will. They're the best in the world at knock out tornaments. They just started theirs early.
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He’s been watching Copps vs Southend.
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Master technicians. Can play shite against team's having the game's of their lives and still have that absolutely ice cold composure. If they start playing well, there's no team can live with them.
There eas nothing ice cool about that, shear desparation would be more apt
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Master technicians. Can play shite against team's having the game's of their lives and still have that absolutely ice cold composure. If they start playing well, there's no team can live with them.
There eas nothing ice cool about that, shear desparation would be more apt
That free kick was 'shear desperation'. haha come on.
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Can’t see Germany winning it I’ve not seen a German team play as badly as in these 2 games,if England had played like they had they would get slated
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Master technicians. Can play shite against team's having the game's of their lives and still have that absolutely ice cold composure. If they start playing well, there's no team can live with them.
There eas nothing ice cool about that, shear desparation would be more apt
That free kick was 'shear desperation'. haha come on.
well executed, but you have to question the keepers positioning, it was obvious how the Germans shaped up where that free kick was going
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Guidetti should've booted it into Asda car park.
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It's Jimmy Durmaz who I'd be blaming as a Swede. A needless, stupid foul on the edge of the box in the 95th minute. He had a team mate next to him and the German attacker was going nowhere. It ends up in the back of the net, wonderful strike.
I just hope Brazil get them in the 2nd Round and knock them out. Not that I can stand Brazil anymore thanks to that arrogant twonk Neymar, but the Germans over two games do not deserve to be in the position they're in, they'll surely qualify now.
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The Swedes just sat in further after the sending off, & as much as I would have loved the Germans to go out, Sweden got what they deserved, too negative after the dismissal.
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Been reflecting on that 95th minute goal. I never once doubted that Germany would win. Their collective national footballing ability to insist on NOT underachieving is quite breathtaking to behold.
We regularly underachieve. Germany NEVER do. You never ever come away from a tournament saying, “Phew, that was a surprise, Germany going out so soon.”
My kids are 11 and 10. When that free kick was given, they were bouncing round the room saying, “No! THIS is it! They WILL score.”
Welcome to another 80 years of that, lads.
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The Swedes just sat in further after the sending off, & as much as I would have loved the Germans to go out, Sweden got what they deserved, too negative after the dismissal.
I fully agree with that, mate; against 10 men in a team woefully out of form, Sweden absolutely bottled it. They just pulled everyone back behind the ball and invited Germany on to them; it was obvious then what the outcome would be, even with only seconds remaining.
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Been reflecting on that 95th minute goal. I never once doubted that Germany would win. Their collective national footballing ability to insist on NOT underachieving is quite breathtaking to behold.
We regularly underachieve. Germany NEVER do. You never ever come away from a tournament saying, “Phew, that was a surprise, Germany going out so soon.”
My kids are 11 and 10. When that free kick was given, they were bouncing round the room saying, “No! THIS is it! They WILL score.”
Welcome to another 80 years of that, lads.
As soon as thecfree kick was given I said to my boy (7) “the Germans are going to score here.” You just f**king knew it. They’re very successful of course but also poxy. Just ask Paul Parker.
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... and a big thans to the Commentator who hypothesised the whole of the Game with "what if" type comments. He was terrible
Had to laugh at his brilliant disparaging p*ss taking comment with about 20 minutes to go " what will the Papers headlines be saying in Hamburg Berlin Stottgart etc tomorrow"
.... and when the Winner went in ? "NEVER EVER write off Germany"
I admit I spoke to my Telly at that point - F*ck off - youve been doing it for the whole game - but I dont get paid shed loads for my contributions
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The best thing that happened to Germany was when Jerome Boateng got sent off. His defending reminded of Harry Worley at his worst.
And he'll miss the next game, which is another boost for them.
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It was 100% nailed on they would score in injury time and as soon as that free kick was awarded I said GOAL.
You just can’t write them off even when they are rubbish.
The commentator was writing them off with 20 mins to go. Silly man.
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(https://image.prntscr.com/image/i3-emMAHQwyg9e4uTLVTng.png)
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England won again.
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Poland have completely shat it.
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That group for some reason play before us on Thursday so we will know who we will play before we play.
Colombia looked good last night, Japan probably the ideal opposition
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Getting fed up already of hearing the same old “ we can go all the way’ . They win 6-1 doh . 2 penalties and fluke goal . So really it’s 3-1 against a team who would hardly make it in League 2 . Let’s see after Belgium if this a team worth the trip to the bolkens .
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Excellent piece in the Independant today, for anyone that is interested, with the headline:
Every team needs a player who sums them up, and for Gareth Southgate's England that is Jesse Lingard
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Getting fed up already of hearing the same old “ we can go all the way’ . They win 6-1 doh . 2 penalties and fluke goal . So really it’s 3-1 against a team who would hardly make it in League 2 . Let’s see after Belgium if this a team worth the trip to the bolkens .
I don’t think people genuinely expect us to win the tournament but it’s nice to finally be positive about a England side.
I can’t remember being so confident about us, the way Southgate has us set up is so exciting to watch. Just enjoy the moment fella. We might not get many more.
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Getting fed up already of hearing the same old “ we can go all the way’ . They win 6-1 doh . 2 penalties and fluke goal . So really it’s 3-1 against a team who would hardly make it in League 2 . Let’s see after Belgium if this a team worth the trip to the bolkens .
Being Scottish you would be getting fed up 😬
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Sweden were their own worst enemies. They should have kept the ball at the other end when they had it, then gave away a stupid free kick when they didn't need to.
Yep, it is really easy just to keep the ball at the other end isn’t it.
Well if you think that crossing the ball with minutes to go and giving the opposition the chance to get the ball down to the other end and score rather than holding the ball up by the corner flag I bow to your superior football knowledge.
Strange that just about every football pundit appears to disagree with you though.
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Getting fed up already of hearing the same old “ we can go all the way’ . They win 6-1 doh . 2 penalties and fluke goal . So really it’s 3-1 against a team who would hardly make it in League 2 . Let’s see after Belgium if this a team worth the trip to the bolkens .
Made it further than your lot and I’m fed up of Scottish moaning about England fans being positive and optimistic
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Getting fed up already of hearing the same old “ we can go all the way’ . They win 6-1 doh . 2 penalties and fluke goal . So really it’s 3-1 against a team who would hardly make it in League 2 . Let’s see after Belgium if this a team worth the trip to the bolkens .
Made it further than your lot and I’m fed up of Scottish moaning about England fans being positive and optimistic
It's only because they don't get the opportunity to whinge about their own teams performances at Tournament finals. :lol:
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Sweden were their own worst enemies. They should have kept the ball at the other end when they had it, then gave away a stupid free kick when they didn't need to.
Yep, it is really easy just to keep the ball at the other end isn’t it.
Well if you think that crossing the ball with minutes to go and giving the opposition the chance to get the ball down to the other end and score rather than holding the ball up by the corner flag I bow to your superior football knowledge.
Strange that just about every football pundit appears to disagree with you though.
Even if they had gone to the corner flag, they more than likely wouldn’t have kept it there for two minutes, who does?
We don’t know that the outcome wouldn’t have been the same.
Like I said, it isn’t easy to keep the ball at the other end of the pitch ( yes, I know I used different words).
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(https://image.prntscr.com/image/i3-emMAHQwyg9e4uTLVTng.png)
i new i had heard phrase before by him apparently
"Football is a sport which the English invented, you play 11 against 11 and Germany always win," he said after losing to the Germans in the semi-finals of Italia 1990.
http://www.marca.com/en/world-cup/2018/06/23/5b2ebbe0ca4741a57c8b4659.html
for those of you with very long memories he was hopeless chairing match of the day absolutely "no confidence" for years and the other 2 pundits one x Liverpool controllede the show
shame Lineker with his"vegetable" brain never worked on that fruit and veg stall he bought on Leicester market to run when he retired ..... "turnip-head"
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Reading a Coleman post must be what getting plugged into the Matrix feels like.
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Getting fed up already of hearing the same old “ we can go all the way’ . They win 6-1 doh . 2 penalties and fluke goal . So really it’s 3-1 against a team who would hardly make it in League 2 . Let’s see after Belgium if this a team worth the trip to the bolkens .
😂😂😂
When did penalties stop counting?
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Depends who you ask.
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Like being Scottish in the first place isn't bad enough....
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Awesome header from Morocco to put them in front of Spain! Just need an equaliser from Iran, and another from Morocco?
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More chance of me scoring in the World Cup than Iran at the moment.
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More chance of me scoring in the World Cup than Iran at the moment.
Did you forget to say you'd eat your hat if...?
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Is this a good time to reveal my goal in the five a side world cup during my school days... :coat:
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What a legitimately disgusting game of football Iran v Portugal was.
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Turkish ref is definitely a gypo tonight should have been a couple of bookings not given.
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Just seen the slo-mo of Messi’s ball control for the goal.
My God. Utterly superb.
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It looked good in real time too.
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Looking forward to the whole Ronaldo v Messi debate opening up again...
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It was that second touch with the top of his right foot. Running at full speed and he didn’t slow down at all. But his touch was as gentle as a mother putting a baby to bed. Sublime.
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He's no James Coppinger, mind.
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That pen by Moses, just the same as the one by Stock in the Southend 5-1 game.
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Now hoping that the Argies are going home.
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Ref must have read my post at half time while checking out the new manager debate because he’s giving everything to Nigeria now, hope he doesn’t have the thread open on his I watch
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Well done referee. Let's hope they are now going to penalise all these wrestling defenders in the area.
The more penalties that are given the sooner it will stop.
Also it would be good if commentators and so called pundits didn't try and justify the pulling.
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Handball not given for Nigeria. Then Argentina score. Good goal mind, but FFS.
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Twice now that the Argentina manager has gone straight down the tunnel at the end of the game, without shaking the hand of the opposition manager.
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Handball not given for Nigeria. Then Argentina score. Good goal mind, but FFS.
Was not a penalty that, good refereeing. Nigeria did very well though, unlucky. They're a young side so I expect we'll see them again in four years.
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Handball not given for Nigeria. Then Argentina score. Good goal mind, but FFS.
Was not a penalty that, good refereeing. Nigeria did very well though, unlucky. They're a young side so I expect we'll see them again in four years.
How was it not a penno. Headed it onto his own arm. Nigeria did look very good. Ah well, Argentina France should be a good game.
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Handball not given for Nigeria. Then Argentina score. Good goal mind, but FFS.
Was not a penalty that, good refereeing. Nigeria did very well though, unlucky. They're a young side so I expect we'll see them again in four years.
How was it not a penno. Headed it onto his own arm. Nigeria did look very good. Ah well, Argentina France should be a good game.
To be fair, it wasn’t much different to the one given to Iran against Portugal.
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No different to the one given last night, var not getting rid of inconsistencies
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Wasn't deliberate, certainly didn't move his arm towards the ball nor did it prevent Nigeria attacking or scoring or anything.
I also don't think Iran's last night was a penalty Hound, personally.
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Handball not given for Nigeria. Then Argentina score. Good goal mind, but FFS.
Was not a penalty that, good refereeing. Nigeria did very well though, unlucky. They're a young side so I expect we'll see them again in four years.
The VAR team seemed to think it was, thats why they advised the ref to have a look
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I also don’t think it was but still inconsistent
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No different to the one given last night, var not getting rid of inconsistencies
I heard it's about consistency within the games, not between them. The rules depend on interpretation. Some aspects such as what constitutes a handball really could be better defined, with video examples, for the ref fraternity. Some other things are just dependant on context etc.
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I can't see VAR without thinking Value Added Reseller....
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Wasn't deliberate, certainly didn't move his arm towards the ball nor did it prevent Nigeria attacking or scoring or anything.
I also don't think Iran's last night was a penalty Hound, personally.
Neither did I mate.
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Just seen the slo-mo of Messi’s ball control for the goal.
My God. Utterly superb.
Dead right Billy, and he was brilliant throughout the whole game; I never tire of watching him.
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Just seen the slo-mo of Messi’s ball control for the goal.
My God. Utterly superb.
Dead right Billy, and he was brilliant throughout the whole game; I never tire of watching him.
For anyone who hasn’t seen it, this is what you can do when you’re the most talented player in history.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44624069
Goal of the tournament so far.
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His speed of thought and control were breathtaking. I doubt Ronaldo could have done that, he his more power than guile.
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The control and second touch running at that pace was excellent. Very good finish with his weaker foot too. Great goal.
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I don't think that we will see a better goal for a long time. I still can't believe his touches. Perfection.
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It looks easy, that's what was so outrageous about it. Effortless for him. No other player on Earth could do that though, not even Coppinger!
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It's the combination of speed of thought and ability to make the most exquisite of touches at pace that is so breathtaking. The control with the outside of the thigh was excellent, but it was the second touch with his right foot before the ball landed that was jaw-dropping. Pretty much every striker who has ever lived would have been looking to let the ball drop from the thigh and hit it on the volley or half volley. But Messi sensed that the ball wasn't going quite quickly enough after bringing it down on his thigh. If he'd waited for the ball the drop to volleying height, the defender had a chance to get a block in. So, in a fraction of a second, he chose to take that extra touch with the ball still a foot off the ground. And he made the touch with perfect precision. At full pace. Without breaking stride.
Have a look at the defender's reaction. He thinks he's got him when the ball comes off Messi's thigh. He's shaped up to dive in to block the shot.
Then THAT touch...
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Germany on the brink 😀😀😀😀
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You just f**king know they'll find a way.
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They should be out of it by now but if the Loans don't score the krauts will finish them off. We all know how jammy they are.
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Yessss come on Sth Korea
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SCENES
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Best WC ever?
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Absolutely brilliant, Germans eliminated.
Best team in the world, you’re having a laugh.
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Bye bye Germany, got lucky the other day, but not today 😀😀😀😀
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Absolutely tremendous.
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Noticeable that when the ball broke to the Korean who scored the first goal that not one German defender made a move to try and block the shot.
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VAR is worth it just for this!
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And more to the point Germany end up bottom of the group
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Crouts out yeehAaaa.
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Been reflecting on that 95th minute goal. I never once doubted that Germany would win. Their collective national footballing ability to insist on NOT underachieving is quite breathtaking to behold.
We regularly underachieve. Germany NEVER do. You never ever come away from a tournament saying, “Phew, that was a surprise, Germany going out so soon.”
My kids are 11 and 10. When that free kick was given, they were bouncing round the room saying, “No! THIS is it! They WILL score.”
Welcome to another 80 years of that, lads.
Well, did anyone think that the Germans were going to score in this match.
I for one, am not surprised that Germany have gone out early.
They are a poor poor side and got what they deserved.
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Absolutely brilliant seeing them go out in the groups.
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I hate to put a downer on things but you DO realise that the last time Germany got knocked out in the group stage, a world war started within 18 months.
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I hate to put a downer on things but you DO realise that the last time Germany got knocked out in the group stage, a world war started within 18 months.
Not strictly true, there was no group stage in 1938.
However, the last time Germany didn't get as far as England in the tournament...we won the trophy. Therefore I think it's now safe to say that it's coming home.
;)
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Sorry yes. First round.
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I hate to put a downer on things but you DO realise that the last time Germany got knocked out in the group stage, a world war started within 18 months.
I was reading about that. Apparently the 1938 WC took place after the Anschluss. The Austrians had one of the best teams in the world at the time and several of them were added to the German squad. However in the short time they had together they failed to gel with the German players. As a result, they were knocked out by Switzerland after a replay (no group stages at that one).
So as I don't think there were many players from Salzburg, Linz or Vienna in the Germany side, we're probably safe.
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I’ve lost count of the number of tournaments where Croatia have looked the dog’s b*llocks in the group...then met a strong side in R2 or the QF.
I do agree that they have looked the best side so far and they do have some excellent and experienced players. But they always have a weakness or two when faced with the best.
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Colombia have been improving game by game and whilst I don't think they have it in them to win the tournament they are going to be a dangerous team for anyone to meet. Their movement is very good.
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Uruguay could be the dark horses' it all depends on their temperament!
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So the last four European WC winners (France 98, Italy 06, Spain 10 and Germany 14) have got eliminated in the group stage of the next WC.
Back to business as usual for England in Qatar then.
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I see Martinez is making 10 changes for the England game. As the pundits said, he obviously seems to want second spot in the group for an easier passage in the next round and the quarter-final.
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Imagine what sort of game it will be if England decide to want to finish second as well.
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Imagine what sort of game it will be if England decide to want to finish second as well.
Own goal and yellow card fest! :lol:
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Imagine what sort of game it will be if England decide to want to finish second as well.
Aye. I’m surprised no-one’s spotted that.
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How about this?
1966.
Real Madrid won the European Cup.
Man City won the league (*)
Burnley got into Europe
Chelsea finished 5th
And you know what happened that summer.
(*) Division 2 title, admittedly, but whaddya want? Perfection?
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and I'm very surprised people haven't twigged today is the battle with a Belgium "team" but the war could well end next month as they say we'll meet again !!! for the final curtain
it happened in 1962 as we all know czecks in same group as brazil and met in the final
think czecks got a measly 3 points in the group
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Good goal by the Belgians. Second place will do me nicely. Have not seen any team to fear so far.
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I thought we weren't going out to try and finish second?
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Christ this is boring.
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I don’t think we’re trying to finish second but it’s not a disaster if we do and arguably an easier path? It’s what it is.
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Going beautifully to plan.
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It's to be hoped nothing happens to Harry Kane as without him we are f**ked.
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Not too worried about losing this game but.........Delph seemed to get caught in possession too often, Rashford showed why he isn’t a first choice and Dier showed why Henderson is in front of him.
A shame for Southgate that we lost a great unbeaten run but it is the next game that matters now.
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Dier and Jones should never get near the first 11 for me.
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Dier, Delph and dare I say it Loftus-Cheeck are nowhere near the first team. At least, we've found that out now. Jamie Vardy also can only be played for certain situations - not good enough.
We tried but we failed. Not the end of the World as we have what we wanted really, the easier route to the final.
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Agree with comment about Dier and Jones, never really rated Jones but Dier has gone backwards in his England career
Excellent outcome if not an excellent result
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Dier, Delph and dare I say it Loftus-Cheeck are nowhere near the first team. At least, we've found that out now. Jamie Vardy also can only be played for certain situations - not good enough.
We tried but we failed. Not the end of the World as we have what we wanted really, the easier route to the final.
Loftus-Cheek was our best player by a country mile, though Maguire looked very assured in the second half. None of the other outfield players should be playing Tuesday.
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Dier, Delph and dare I say it Loftus-Cheeck are nowhere near the first team. At least, we've found that out now. Jamie Vardy also can only be played for certain situations - not good enough.
We tried but we failed. Not the end of the World as we have what we wanted really, the easier route to the final.
Loftus-Cheek would stay in for me, there's certainly areas he can improve on but I think he looks good and offers something different to the midfield.
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Dier, Delph and dare I say it Loftus-Cheeck are nowhere near the first team. At least, we've found that out now. Jamie Vardy also can only be played for certain situations - not good enough.
We tried but we failed. Not the end of the World as we have what we wanted really, the easier route to the final.
Loftus-Cheek would stay in for me, there's certainly areas he can improve on but I think he looks good and offers something different to the midfield.
He’s quality RLC.
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Re:Rashford
100% Sterling squares it. 1-1
The reason I'm not in the England squad is because i'd run around like a headless chicken get well too excited, shoot everytime I was in their half and try and dribble around the entire team everytime I was in ours.
Not sure why Rashford isn't out of contention based on the same criteria, in fact people love him for those flaws. (Just watch Slovakia's goal after 3 mins in the qualifiers, dribbling through the team from your own 6 yard box. That'll cost you dearly in a major tournament. until he's matured a bit stick him on the bench!!)
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There is one thing that we found out tonight - boy, did we miss Lingard!
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the phrase "suckers " you won comes to mind. Seriously to stop a situation like this happening again. When it's the last match of the first round fifa ought to give the winners a choice which group they go into -- personally i thought we might have got a draw lots situation -
just checked my facts from 1974 and we have had this situation before
http://www.historyinanhour.com/2012/07/01/east-germany-v-west-germany-world-cup/
1974 World Cup
The East Germany v West Germany match was to be the last tie of the first round, which had started well for both teams: West Germany had defeated Chile and Australia, while the East Germans had defeated Australia and drew against Chile. As Australia and Chile drew 0-0 in their last match, it became clear that both German teams would qualify, no matter the result of the match in Hamburg.
Still, it was an important event, with the West Germans as huge favourites: besides being at home, the team were defending European champions, and had a core of players from the Bayern Munich team that a month earlier had lifted the European Champions Cup trophy after crushing Atlético Madrid in the final.
This goal was enough for the East Germans to win the group, and they celebrated. This was a victory that resounded across the world.
However, as the World Cup continued, things went differently for both teams. East Germany, who had won the group, now paradoxically had the tougher challenge of facing Brazil and the Netherlands in the next round, and were indeed eliminated. On the other hand, West Germany had an easier draw and won the rest of their matches, including the final against the Netherlands, to become world champions, erasing the humiliation of losing to East Germany.
I remember thinking that match was "fixed"
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If Pickfords our best keeper then we’ve got problems.. Rose not at his best but i’d start him instead of Young. Noboby else really took their chance to impress.
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Job done as far as I'm concerned, who would want to be in the other side of the draw?
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Rashford and vardy!
Should put to bed slagging off of sterling! However wellbeck looked useful once on. Therefore promoted to 1st attacking sub for me??
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I've been very impressed with Southgate so far but he got that badly wrong. Yes, a few changes, fair enough. Cahill for Walker and change the wing-backs- no problem. But we ended up with a midfield which reminded me of Rovers at the end of last season when Copps and Tommy were out- no creativity at all. Plus two strikers who made the same runs all night.
On that basis you can see why Henderson, Lingard and Sterling, as well as Kane, are among the first names on the team sheet.
Before the game I thought Rose, who is naturally left-footed, might oust Young but he made such a mess on the goal that I doubt he'll be seen again barring injuries. One big concern was Pickford, who wasn't tested in the first two games but produced some alarming punches and nearly did a Rob Green in the first half. If I was either Butland or Pope, I'd be working extra hard in training tomorrow.
Ok, some will say we have an easier draw, but I'm not sure that Colombia, Sweden and Spain or Croatia isn't as difficult as Japan, Brazil and possibly France. Anyway, the most important game is the next one and personally I'd rather be playing Japan than Colombia. The only advantage I can see is that we're in Moscow rather than Rostov. Very disappointing.
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I would n't read to much into last nights performance, we were giving fringe players a run out, that was nowhere near our starting 11. Columbia will be tough, but everyone in our side of the draw is beatable, this is our best chance for years to reach the final
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The rest for the “first team” will be a big advantage.
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TRB
You’ve got two halves of the draw.
One has:
Russia
Spain
Croatia
Denmark
Sweden
Switzerland
Colombia
The other has:
Uruguay
Portugal
Argentina
France
Brazil
Mexico
Japan
If you were given a choice between the two, which would you choose?
This isn’t a particularly strong England team, but fate has just chucked them a chance to become legends. We’ve got the weakest half of a draw in any WC since 2002 when an awful German side made it to the Final.
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just imagine the consequences of Russia beating Spain tommorrow
seeing Moses "exodus" from being an Englishman to Nigeria (Ross Barkley could have also been playing for them if he had "chosen wisely" ) reminds me conveniently of the phrase "parting of the RED sea" ... after lasts night result more like "parting of the path to the semi finals" for England
and if those "reds under the beds" could beat Spain think we could use McMillan's phrase 'you have never had it so good'
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TRB
You’ve got two halves of the draw.
One has:
Russia
Spain
Croatia
Denmark
Sweden
Switzerland
Colombia
The other has:
Uruguay
Portugal
Argentina
France
Brazil
Mexico
Japan
If you were given a choice between the two, which would you choose?
This isn’t a particularly strong England team, but fate has just chucked them a chance to become legends. We’ve got the weakest half of a draw in any WC since 2002 when an awful German side made it to the Final.
We thought we'd dropped lucky two years ago when we got Iceland. And Columbia are potentially a more dangerous side than Iceland. (The Belgians probably thought the same about meeting Wales).
Apart from the Moscow / Rostov thing the only advantage I can see of last night is that Southgate can't have any doubts about his first XI.
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We did drop lucky against Iceland. It guarantee nothing but makes winning the thing easier. If we are not good enough then we are not good enough, but we have more chance of winning the tournament today than we did yesterday. That’s a fact.
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We didn’t drop lucky in 2016 actually. We f**ked up by not winning the group and ended up in a significantly harder half of the draw. Had we beaten Iceland, we’d have then faced France in the QF and Germany in the SF. We aren’t going to go very far in that half of the draw.
The fact that we got the weakest side in that half of the draw in R2 and lost to them merely showed how shite we were.
The issue now is that if this England squad wants to become legends, they want as easy a path as possible to the final. And that’s now what they have got. It’s irrelevant that we might arguably have had a slightly easier R2 match if we’d win the group. If we can’t beat Colombia, we wouldn’t have been going to be contenders anyway in the other half of the draw.
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Here’s a funny thing.
We’re 3/4s of the way through the WC. But it’s really only just beginning. You tend to remember very little from the First round stage of a WC. The real memories and the outstanding moments of drama come from here on in.
Buckle up.
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just imagine the consequences of Russia beating Spain tommorrow
seeing Moses "exodus" from being an Englishman to Nigeria (Ross Barkley could have also been playing for them if he had "chosen wisely" ) reminds me conveniently of the phrase "parting of the RED sea" ... after lasts night result more like "parting of the path to the semi finals" for England
and if those "reds under the beds" could beat Spain think we could use McMillan's phrase 'you have never had it so good'
Yes, but imagine ‘so-called’ used-to-be USSR (don’t forget what happened with Poland...... NOT FUNNy) and West Germany (or do we just say GERMANy - convenient- haha!) when they meet Portugal ....... don’t even discuss RONAldo who lefty the MIGHtY Man Utd...... too much money????? Doubt it....... 2-1 anybody? Or 1-2 and lets see the replay........Doubt it!!!!! Hang on..... Germany already home talking to Neighbours Nederland....??
I think I’ve read so many of Coleman’s posts I’ve finally got it!!!
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I don't think anyone actually has any idea what he's trying to say the majority of the time.
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I don't think they'll be overly difficult but it is very easy to underestimate them, and underestimate them we should not.
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Simple really.
If England can’t get to a final via a route that will probably pitch them against Colombia, Switzerland and Spain/Croatia, they’d be even less likely to get to the final via Japan, Brazil and France.
England has an easier potential route to the final than they would have had if they’d won vs Belgium. Full stop.
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Am I the only person who thinks Colombia will be really difficult opponents who probably deserve to go into the game as favourites?
It's all well and good plotting routes to the latter stages when there's a tough opponent up next who are very underestimated.
There's nothing whatsoever to suggest England are better than Colombia presently.
On what basis do they “deserve” to be favourites? We both have 2 wins and a defeat from the groups, but our defeat came when we played our reserves against one of the best teams in the world (who admittedly also played a reserve team), whereas they lost to an unfancied Japan. They looked very good against Poland but I wasn’t particularly impressed in their game against Senegal, and if James is injured that’s their biggest threat out. As RedJ says, it’s wrong to underestimate them but I’d still put us as favourites.
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Am I the only person who thinks Colombia will be really difficult opponents who probably deserve to go into the game as favourites?
It's all well and good plotting routes to the latter stages when there's a tough opponent up next who are very underestimated.
There's nothing whatsoever to suggest England are better than Colombia presently.
On any know stats we have to be favourites. Columbia were the most over achieving/ falsely positioned team in the group stages. We are vulnerable due to our mental fragility. If what happened against Iceland happens again we could be playing Rosso Main and we wouldn’t win.
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England's strange combination of swaggering over confidence mixed with an inferiority complex, has meant at past tournament's they've struggled against not only teams with a history, tradition and experience to rival or even surpass our own (regardless of how good their current team is) but minnows such as Iceland 16 and USA 50 as well.
So I think a big part of the optimism about this world cup comes from the fact that in our half of the draw only Spain fit into either category (and their world cup history is almost identical to England's in its underachievement, So I wouldn't be surprised to see them gone before the SF). So they'll be no "we'll never beat them" attitude and no "even if we win by 5 the opponents were shite anyway" attitude, hopefully resulting in the England squad having reduced pressure and doubt.
Whether our current crop of quite average players can go deep in this tournament remains to be seen but they wouldnt be the worst team to Win/get to a Final/Semi-Final of a World Cup in history.
Colombia are better than our potential QF opponents. However, Sweden could physically neutralise us (especially the over reliance on set pieces) but at the last few world cups it was difficult to see us beating Uruguay, Italy or Germany. So I don't think aiming for Semis is getting too carried away as we will be playing teams that are beatable but not shameful and embarrassing to lose to.
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TEAM 3960
NOT AT WC:6
GROUP STAGE:5
2ND GROUP STAGE:1
L16:2
QF:4
4th PLACE:1
WINNERS:1
TEAM 3956
NOT AT WC:6
GROUP STAGES:3
2ND GROUP STAGES:1
L16:2
QF:6
4th PLACE:1
WINNERS:1
one of these is Englands World Cup record and one is Spain's. Not much different but they both have a big chance to get to their 3rd Final Four in Russia.
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I’m struggling to think when a team worse than England’s current one (relative to the standards of the day) has won the WC since the War. Maybe Italy in 2006. They were not the best side but even they had Pirlo, Buffon, Gattuso and Cannavaro who are head and shoulders above the equivalents in this England side.
Not saying they can’t do it, but it would be the biggest WC upset of my lifetime.
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Uruguay and West Germany immediately after the War "worst" seems a bit harsh but most surprising perhaps. Schiaffino was one of the best 4 or 5 players in the world but you could argue that right now for Kane. The Germans in 54 weren't seeded in a group that contained Hungary, Korea Republic and Turkey - so yeah not fancied.
Maybe Italy 06 or Argentina 78 but point taken post 66.
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I couldn’t comment on Uruguay and West Germany but I’ll take your points.
But harsh on Argentina.
They had Pasarella as the experienced hard man, Ardilles with glorious midfield skills and Kempes as good a striker as any in the world at the time.
You’d probably put Kane in Kempes’s class but there’s really no-one in this England squad to match the others. And Argentina had a strong second level of players in Luque and Bertoni. Plus home advantage and bribery, which meant that it wasn’t much of a surprise that they won!
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Home advantage and bribery? Good job we don't have host country's like that anymore.
I'd be more confident if this favourable draw we had was at a time when we had a more experienced team of top top players perhaps (at least a ferdinand, Gerrard, lampard, cole type of a few years ago) but we haven't. Some of the players are so young that who is to say that a Stone's, sterling, alli, tripier etc don't go on to have Stellar careers (Denmark were underdogs but in hindsight Schmeichel and the Laudrup's are considered amongst the best of their generation)
In 2002 we were the 2nd best team at the QF stage and drew the only team that would definitely beat us. This time we've got a couple of coin toss (or better actually around 63% probably) games away from a Semi that dependant on the opposition might be another coin toss. I for one thought we would at best be KO'd by Brazil or Germany in the QF so things could get very exciting.... they could go out or they could go through - and it hasn't been like that for ages!!
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I agree that it's easy to call players legends with hindsight, after they have achieved greatness. But you need to compare like with like.
Raheem Sterling is currently the same age that Mario Kempes was in 1978. Harry Kane is a year older. Jesse Lingard is the same age that Ardilles was in 78. John Stones is only a year younger than Daniel Pasarella was in 78 when we was THE mester of the tournament.
Kieran Trippier is 27 By the time they were 27...
Maradona had been the best player in history for half a decade.
Jurgen Klinnsman had played in 2 World Cup Finals and a Euro final.
Bobby Moore was 2 years past lifting the Jules Rimet trophy
Johann Cruyff had been the best player in the world for three years and was only a couple of years away from retiring from international football.
Zinedine Zidane was the best player in the world and had a World Cup winners medal in his trophy cabinet.
Yes, this English squad is relatively young. But it's not THAT young. If the players were going to mature into genuinely world-leading players, they should be doing it by now. This draw is the sort of chance that comes along once in a generation. If they are GENUINELY players of historic high quality, they will make the final. They'll not be so much better in 4 years time that they'd have a better chance than this.
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Even if England were to go all the way to the Final, and perhaps even win it, I can well imagine that there would still be people telling us that we only managed it because we had the easiest half of the draw,
won because the rest of the teams in it made it the worst for quality than for donkeys years, were lucky to beat so and so on the way, or any other excuse that they could dream up.
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Argentinian player should walk for the second foul on Mbappe. Last man.
They can't cope with him at all.
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Even if England were to go all the way to the Final, and perhaps even win it, I can well imagine that there would still be people telling us that we only managed it because we had the easiest half of the draw,
won because the rest of the teams in it made it the worst for quality than for donkeys years, were lucky to beat so and so on the way, or any other excuse that they could dream up.
Especially the other home nations... :laugh:
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Argentinian player should walk for the second foul on Mbappe. Last man.
They can't cope with him at all.
Double jeopardy rule?
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Argentinian player should walk for the second foul on Mbappe. Last man.
They can't cope with him at all.
Double jeopardy rule?
Isn't that just for penalties? Was only a free kick on the edge of the box.
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Wonderful strike by Di Maria, but shite defending. The French players didn’t press and let him pick his spot.
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Wonderful strike by Di Maria, but shite defending. The French players didn’t press and let him pick his spot.
Irrespective of what the defenders did, nine times out of ten that shot would be over the bar.
A fantastic goal and maybe Di Maria should be given credit for finding space.
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Any top rate player can strike a shot like that with ten yards space.
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Argentinian player should walk for the second foul on Mbappe. Last man.
They can't cope with him at all.
Double jeopardy rule?
Isn't that just for penalties? Was only a free kick on the edge of the box.
Yes it is. I misread the post, I thought it said the penalty.
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Come on now France, beat these cheating diving Argies
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I'm talking about the one that led to Pogba's freekick that he skied.
I cant stand Argentina's dirty tactics in general. They are hacking down anything that moves.
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Here’s a funny thing.
We’re 3/4s of the way through the WC. But it’s really only just beginning. You tend to remember very little from the First round stage of a WC. The real memories and the outstanding moments of drama come from here on in.
Buckle up.
As I was saying...
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As long as Mbappe doesn't become a daft lad, rich footballer and keeps his motivation to improve we're seeing one of the greatest footballers of the next generation.
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From 33s to 11/2 for the Golden Ball, No one's offering a price on Young player of the tournament as far as I can see.
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Great game they. Glad France won. They play with strength speed and fluidity. Three great goals. Argentina a feckless bunch of louts. Adi-f**king-os.
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Mbappe was man of the match, and deservedly so, but it's not as if it's some kid who's come to the World Cup and excelled out of nowhere. This is someone who is committed to a £150m+ transfer to PSG this summer after all. If anything he's underwhelmed so far so it's good to see that there is something behind it that might justify the hype.
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Well who'd have thunk it? Germans out, Argentinians out and now ronaldo's lot out - all before England. Would've got good odds on that pre-tourny!
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I’m guessing, apart from 66, we’ve never gone further than Germany, Argentina, Italy, Holland...
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Probably not! Without jinking em - I like the look of Croatia and Uruguay - both could go quite far!
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Uruguay looked incredibly effective tonight. Completely nullified Ronaldo and gave away very little in general. Interesting next fixture for them vs. France.
A question for you all; how many remaining nations do you think have a realistic chance of winning the tournament? For me, it's three (France, Brazil and Spain).
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Agree with you there al4475. Both have been rock solid. Dependable squads who are organised and will put it all on the line for the team.
You can see why Athleti don’t concede many with Godin at the back he is an absolute wall!
Glad to see Portugal and Argies go home. Can’t help but hold it against them that they have got the better of us numerous times in controversial curcumstances.
I think the Uruguayans will give anyone a game.
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It just doesn't seem real to see so many big names gone, and if only we could beat Colombia who knows ....
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I’m guessing, apart from 66, we’ve never gone further than Germany, Argentina, Italy, Holland...
We haven’t gone further than Argentina yet so let’s calm down.
We couldn’t have lived with France or Argentina on today’s showing. They were both far ahead of us.
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I’m guessing, apart from 66, we’ve never gone further than Germany, Argentina, Italy, Holland...
England have never gone further than Germany on foreign soil (unless you count 1950 when they were banned).
England have gone further than the Dutch 10 times (mainly in the 50s/60s before they were any kind of footballing force)
As for Italy it's 6 times and argentina it's 5.
2002 QF 1962 QF and 1954 QF are the times England have gone further than all 3 (although 2 of them didn't even enter in 1954) - of course we would have to beat Colombia to go further than Argentina this time around.
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I’m guessing, apart from 66, we’ve never gone further than Germany, Argentina, Italy, Holland...
We haven’t gone further than Argentina yet so let’s calm down.
We couldn’t have lived with France or Argentina on today’s showing. They were both far ahead of us.
I don't think Argentina were any good at all, apart from a 10-minute spell either side of half-time. They were lucky to get three goals.
I think England would have done 'em today.
We’ll never know, but I don’t think England would have despatched Argentina the way France did.
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What's made this world cup so good is the unpredictability and there have been some great battles.
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There’s been a theme over the past decade where the better sides have been able to dominate possession and squeeze the life out of the game as a spectacle.
Guardiola all over the place and Spain were the most prominent exponents but even closer to home, it was O’Driscoll’s MO as well.
It was very elegant to watch for the purists (or if it was your side doing to squeezing) but it made the game awful as a spectacle.
Thankfully, we seem to be moving out of that era. There are geniuses all round the world who cannot be shackled (Modric, Mbappe, Cavani & Suarez, Neymar sometimes, Rodriguez and Cuadrado sometimes, Isco, deBruyne and Hazard, even Shaqiri in moments and they can hit you, hard in moments. Even the smaller sides like Iceland and Denmark and Sweden have the ability now to be organised in long periods without the ball, then break fast as a side when they do get it.
We’ve got a wonderfully exhilarating era of football as a result. I hope it stays like this for a long time.
Question now is, do England’s flair players have enough to step up to the top table?
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France for me are the team to beat. Having said that, they still gave away three goals against a very average Argentinian side IMO, so they can be exposed. Uruguay are well drilled if not pretty to watch. Spain have been a bit hit and miss for me so far. Croatia have been strong but not sure they can sustain it... they have a habit of petering out 1/4 finals.
England... on the fence. When it clicks it is effective. But there's little pressure ion them as far as I can tell which I think helps. It wouldn't surprise me if we got to the semis and then who knows. Colombia a big test but definitely winnable.
Brazil - meh. Watch them bloody win it.
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Only found out yesterday that Uruguay has a population of 3.5 million people, very impressive World Cup record based on that!
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Russia scored against Spain and it’s 1-1 now...maybe the russians will make us a surprise? :lol:
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Russia scored against Spain and it’s 1-1 now...maybe the russians will make us a surprise? :lol:
nice to see one of Picquets cheating tricks being spotted for the pen the other apart from shirt pulling (a speciality) is his 2 footed tackle he got a yellow card in the earlier round -- when it should have been a red
we've seen those 2 footed tackles not penalised many times
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I think piquet misses the next game for what its worth with 2 yellows
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Well, I’m in Brussels with work. In the hotel bar watching the match. Full of people from all over Europe enjoying themselves. And I’m ashamed to be English.
Cockney w**ker at the bar. Orders a beer. Barman, a middle eastern guy, is halfway through pouring it and CW says, “Nah! din ya fackin ear me? I want a cognaaac.”
Barman looks at him. Puts the beer down and pours a cognac.
It says “Cognac: €6.50” clear as day on the board.
CW gives barman €5.
Barman says, politely, in English, “It’s €1.50 more sir.”
CW says, “Nah. I ain’t payin fackin €6.50. Show me the bottle. Show me the fackin bottle!”
Barman takes the drink and says, “Nothing for you then sir.”
CW walks off muttering about “fackin Muslims”.
I apologies to barman in broken French and try to explain that we’re not all obnoxious caaaarrrnnnttts.
What a f**king Bell end.
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Oh aye. I’d be ashamed to be Spanish an all. This isn’t football. It’s anti-football. Awful, awful to watch.
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Oh aye. I’d be ashamed to be Spanish an all. This isn’t football. It’s anti-football. Awful, awful to watch.
Russia will have a chance to beat them at penalties
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It’s rope-a-dope stuff.
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Takes a lot to get me rooting for Russia but Spain have managed it.
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Actually. Just realising. You can’t beat watching the WC coverage in a foreign language.
Belgian commentator just said “Akinfaev avait un super match.”
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Picqueeee... Le gol!
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Golovin. Le Speedy Gonzalez de la Russie.
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Ha ha, Russia won at penalties :lol:
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Start believing, the stars are aligning!
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Never EVER a better chance for England.
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Russia remind me of Greece when they won the Euros
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Imagine if Brazil shit it tomorrow afternoon.
Wonder how we'll blow it this year. :laugh:
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Guaranteed we go out on Tuesday now.
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That’s the spirit. Good positive vibes. Not.
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just imagine the consequences of Russia beating Spain tommorrow
seeing Moses "exodus" from being an Englishman to Nigeria (Ross Barkley could have also been playing for them if he had "chosen wisely" ) reminds me conveniently of the phrase "parting of the RED sea" ... after lasts night result more like "parting of the path to the semi finals" for England
and if those "reds under the beds" could beat Spain think we could use McMillan's phrase 'you have never had it so good'
as they say dip your bread
let the dream continue ........ it would be double cream if Denmark could slice the croatian bacon tonight
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Lets hope that the awful brand of football invented by Spain is now dead and buried and we can begin to watch something that is more entertaining and exciting and resembles the 'beautiful game'. Good riddance Spain.
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Croatia have the best chance of winning it now. Best side in that half of the draw.
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Croatia have the best chance of winning it now. Best side in that half of the draw.
don't like them as a "nation" I've been thinking of them as the "new germans" (read into that what you want) they are also allegedly "arrogant" but have a mentality for winning - also a have only a 4 million population.
tv said in every match they play then that match averages the most cards (cant remember whether they meant just yellows)
lets see what we get tonight
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Lets hope that the awful brand of football invented by Spain is now dead and buried and we can begin to watch something that is more entertaining and exciting and resembles the 'beautiful game'. Good riddance Spain.
Agreed, they have been boring for some time now.
I really don’t get all the hype about a thousand completed passes being great football.
Most of them have been ten yard “ to me, to you” passes.
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Denmarj scored in the 2nd minute and has 1-0 against Croatia :lol:
LE...Goal Mandzukic in the 4th minute and now is 1-1
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well I thought that had 0-0 written all over it 1-0 playground goal by Denmark long way to go as it's now 1-1
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At least we should have a match with many goals
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Croatia have the best chance of winning it now. Best side in that half of the draw.
don't like them as a "nation" I've been thinking of them as the "new germans"
What on earth is this even meant to mean?
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The way this is panning out, if England end up playing Russia in the semi, I hope we’ve got some Geiger counters in the hotel kitchen.
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The way this is panning out, if England end up playing Russia in the semi, I hope we’ve got some Geiger counters in the hotel kitchen.
There'll be Novichok spread on every door handle in the hotel
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Croatia have the best chance of winning it now. Best side in that half of the draw.
don't like them as a "nation" I've been thinking of them as the "new germans"
What on earth is this even meant to mean?
wots it like having a negative value IQ ??
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I don’t get Croatia’s tactics.
All they have to do is put a corner in to Schmeichel’s near post...
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Have the Croats got a player who can take corners as good as Mark Duffy?
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With his long throw in, Knudsen from Denmark, reminds me of Rory Delap when he played at Stoke City
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He reminds me of Barry Gill from Frickley Athletic. In all his play.
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Croatia have the best chance of winning it now. Best side in that half of the draw.
don't like them as a "nation" I've been thinking of them as the "new germans"
What on earth is this even meant to mean?
wots it like having a negative value IQ ??
Dunno mate, you'd be the one to ask.
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Have the Croats got a player who can take corners as good as Mark Duffy?
Apparently not.
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Not much to get excited about in the two matches today.
I thought Croatia had looked quite good through the group stage but seem to be lacking direction tonight.
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It was ever thus.
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Fancy Denmark for the penalties, Schmeichel has a good records of saving them. Plus it must be preying on Modric’s mind now...(famous last words, now Schmeichel wont save any and Modric will smash in the winner)
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Didn’t realise that the Croatian keeper would be just as good!
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Wow if we have learnt anything about the penalty shootout every England players needs to take them like Harry Kane. High and powerful into the roof of the net
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I know it’s about nerves, but SURELY every decent player can hit the top 1square metre from 12 yards?
Mind, I only ever took one penalty in a shoot out. Dearne Sunday League Cup. I walked up saying to myself, “Bottom right corner. Bottom right corner. Bottom right corner.” Then I ran up and t**tted it straight down the middle. And I SWEAR, the moment I pulled my right foot back, I was thinking “Bottom right corner.”
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Actually, THAT is the brilliance of a penalty shoot out. Any player with anything less than 100% mental steel will get found out.
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Teams in top half of draw have 8 WC triumphs between them, and 10 final appearances.
Teams in bottom half have 1 triumph and 3 appearances.
Good defeat vs Belgium...
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f**k me you deserve some type of award if you sat through that. Two goals in the opening five minutes, thought we'd be in for a great game. Nowt happened for the next aeon until the penalty.
Croatia weren't great at all, dunno if they just didn't turn up tonight or if Denmark just negated them or if they really aren't all that, but they disappointed me.
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Saw nowt today that England should fear. We've as good a chance as anyone. Interested to see if Brazil turn up. Great WC so far.
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f**k me you deserve some type of award if you sat through that. Two goals in the opening five minutes, thought we'd be in for a great game. Nowt happened for the next aeon until the penalty.
Croatia weren't great at all, dunno if they just didn't turn up tonight or if Denmark just negated them or if they really aren't all that, but they disappointed me.
apart from the first 5 minutes it DID go exactly as i expected "normality soon resumed" how the hell did Denmark beat ireland 4 or 5 nil away in the play offs ??
well I thought that had 0-0 written all over it 1-0 playground goal by Denmark long way to go as it's now 1-1
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He reminds me of Barry Gill from Frickley Athletic. In all his play.
I remember him well Billy; he was a member of the greatest Frickley team of all time, which included ex-Rovers players Wayne Noteman and Russ Willcox.
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SS
I was devastated that Paul Wilson from that side failed a fitness assessment with us. I’m sure he would have scored a bagful for us.
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As much as I hate to say it, at the moment my money would be on France.. I honestly thought they backed off somewhat on Saturday when 4-2 up, had they carried on as they were it could have been 6..
England are going to have to be at their attacking best and score a few, as I think we are a bit ponderous at the back..
Mind you, I pulled out Brazil in the office sweepstake!
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As much as I hate to say it, at the moment my money would be on France.. I honestly thought they backed off somewhat on Saturday when 4-2 up, had they carried on as they wee it could have been 6..
England are going to have to be at their attacking best and score a few, as I think we are a bit ponderous at the back..
Mind you, I pulled out Brazil in the office sweepstake!
yes mbappe who came to my attention when he scored in both legs of the Man city defeat the other season unselfishly tried to give greezeman a goal by an attempted pass instead of shooting
Frances right fullback was terrible against mighty Australia the commentators with short memories really slagged him off then he does a jekl and hyde job. Pogba needs to get away from Man U he's an arm around the shoulder job - the manager is ruining him like so many players -
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Will be interesting to see how tonight goes...here’s what you could have won.
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Martin O Neils comment regarding Neymars pain threshold was pretty funny
" I would n't like to see him leaving the Doctors after his Flu jab"
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Scenes.
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Well, I don’t think any of us could have been expecting this, 2-0 to Japan.
Another shock coming?
Hope so.
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I know this is the other side of the draw, but I keep saying this, England will never have a better chance of winning the World Cup
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Got a feeling they'll find a way now. But you never know. I thought Spain, and Germany, would manage to find a way...
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Yep. Shat it.
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I feel for the Japs.
They didn’t deserve that.
Credit to Belgium though.
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Football eh? f**king hell.
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Klinsman talks out of his arse
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That’s why we love it BST.
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Good honest game too, it can be done neymar
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f**king bedlam in Brussels tonight.
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Question
Is VAR meaning that we are getting better games as there is less chance of getting away with any shenanigans?
Colleague says that people were "shenanigating" in the streets that should definitely be a word!
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I'd say so.
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You need luck to get to the final and Belgium certainly had their share with that first goal!
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I think we will step up a gear tomorrow and win.
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SS
I was devastated that Paul Wilson from that side failed a fitness assessment with us. I’m sure he would have scored a bagful for us.
That goal he scored at Hartlepool to knock them out of the FA Cup was sublime.
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I really don't know how Neymar wasn't carded for that display yesterday. The referee was right there. Embarrassing for the whole game that this stuff goes on on this stage.
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I really don't know how Neymar wasn't carded for that display yesterday. The referee was right there. Embarrassing for the whole game that this stuff goes on on this stage.
It was pathetic. Funny how the great players seem to fall into two distinct groups. There are those like Pele, Cruyff, Puskas etc who carried themselves with dignity and shaped the game and those like Maradonna, Ronaldo and Neymar who are complete and utter cock-ends.
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I really don't know how Neymar wasn't carded for that display yesterday. The referee was right there. Embarrassing for the whole game that this stuff goes on on this stage.
It was pathetic. Funny how the great players seem to fall into two distinct groups. There are those like Pele, Cruyff, Puskas etc who carried themselves with dignity and shaped the game and those like Maradonna, Ronaldo and Neymar who are complete and utter cock-ends.
It's really disappointing because by and large he played very well yesterday. His run, lay-off and continued run for the first goal was quality. Absolutely no need for it. I hope some retroactive punishment is applied but I doubt it will be.
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I really don't know how Neymar wasn't carded for that display yesterday. The referee was right there. Embarrassing for the whole game that this stuff goes on on this stage.
for the simple reason if he got another yellow - he would miss the match against belgium .. Revenue (aka money) my boy
same reason as VAR didn't give the blatant pen against Russia in the Spain match - Russia are the hosts I believe ???
by the way anyone think the Belgian 2nd team might have beaten Japan more easily
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I really don't know how Neymar wasn't carded for that display yesterday. The referee was right there. Embarrassing for the whole game that this stuff goes on on this stage.
It was pathetic. Funny how the great players seem to fall into two distinct groups. There are those like Pele, Cruyff, Puskas etc who carried themselves with dignity and shaped the game and those like Maradonna, Ronaldo and Neymar who are complete and utter cock-ends.
It’s changed as the game has become more intense and the rewards and expectations greater.
We may SAY that we want great players to be fair and honest but we actually want winners. Just ask yourself how often you turn a blind eye to cheating by players on your own side.
Maradona was a cheating Argie for that handball in 86.
Michael Owen was a brave Englishman when he went down for a penalty under negligible contact in 98.
Unless you condemn EVERY cheat, the inevitable endgame is Rivaldo and Neymar’s simulation, or even better, this one.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=R_zdmslupV4
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I really don't know how Neymar wasn't carded for that display yesterday. The referee was right there. Embarrassing for the whole game that this stuff goes on on this stage.
It was pathetic. Funny how the great players seem to fall into two distinct groups. There are those like Pele, Cruyff, Puskas etc who carried themselves with dignity and shaped the game and those like Maradonna, Ronaldo and Neymar who are complete and utter cock-ends.
It’s changed as the game has become more intense and the rewards and expectations greater.
We may SAY that we want great players to be fair and honest but we actually want winners. Just ask yourself how often you turn a blind eye to cheating by players on your own side.
Maradona was a cheating Argie for that handball in 86.
Michael Owen was a brave Englishman when he went down for a penalty under negligible contact in 98.
Unless you condemn EVERY cheat, the inevitable endgame is Rivaldo and Neymar’s simulation, or even better, this one.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=R_zdmslupV4
Well, I was aware that my little list of dignified greats was drawn from a different era and that has to be significant, so I take your point. But as someone pointed out the Belgium v Japan game was full-blooded and fair and proved it can be done without the histrionics.
It's always been there but not as extreme as it is now, but I remember Les Chappell going down like he'd been shot after Alan Biley affected to head-butt him in front of the BV main stand. Biley wasn't within two feet of him. Cue laughter and derision from everyone and the never-to-be-forgotten shout from Ray Ternant, 'Get up yer bellend. They're laughin at yer.'
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When someone is seriously injured or suspects they might be they will remain still. If they roll around like a fish out of water, they are not seriously hurt. it's a dead giveaway, but sadly referees don't seem to recognise it.
Unfortunately, footballers are encouraged to behave that way because referees are very unlikely to give a foul unless the player goes to ground.
Referees have caused the problem.
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Giving fouls more when someone doesn't go down is key. And giving yellows for "wuss conduct" should be a matter of course even when someone is fouled.
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BB
So today’s referees are worse than the ones in the 1960s and 70s?
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BB
So today’s referees are worse than the ones in the 1960s and 70s?
They are not ever refereeing the same sport.
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BB
So today’s referees are worse than the ones in the 1960s and 70s?
They are not ever refereeing the same sport.
That's a red for over dramatising if ever there was one.
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BB
So today’s referees are worse than the ones in the 1960s and 70s?
I don't know! what do you think?
I think players cheat more now than they used to back then, and that makes this generation of referee's job harder. Players cheat more because they are allowed to. Refs have not only let them get away with it, they have encouraged it, by generally only giving free kicks when a player goes down.
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It's like in the box, they'll only give a penalty if it's "absolutely certain". Do you give a foul elsewhere if you only "think" it's a foul? and they only seem to want to give a penalty if the player goes down, even if there's a clear foul and the player has managed to carry on.
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I just want to say how great I think Gareth Southgate is. He is so relaxed and casual and always talks sense. So far, probably one of the best managers we have had for a long time and he is English.
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This game this afternoon is f*cking dreadful. I hope our game tonight is better.
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Going to be f**king tedious if we get Sweden isn't it.
If we go through, of course.
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There were a few moments, but way too much ponderous decision making and fearful passing it back when a cut and thrust through ball was on. Which has been my biggest gripe with Rovers over most seasons since the demise of the Red Arrrows. Something about McCann suggests he's going to kick ass with the players and try and avoid that style.
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My god Sweden are bad. Come on lads!!
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Sweden are dreadful. How are they winning any games.
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shows you how bad germany were if sweden beat them and qualified instead
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This game this afternoon is f*cking dreadful. I hope our game tonight is better.
apart from predicting the the eventual winnners would be Sw...... i fully expected this to be a flask and sandwich job 0-0 extra time penalties etc etc -and had absolutely no intention of watching it - even in the current climate watching the grass "not grow" seems to have been more exciting. perhaps the CIA could use a video of the match "to achieve their aims" in future instead of "waterboarding" ...... there is afterall a shortage of water
:suicide:
as for tonites match the team representing England has a thing called pace (making its belated debut at the world cup) Lingard has that but sadly needs a sat nav in his head to show him where the goal is for the easy chances but he will always more likely score the hard ones.
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shows you how bad germany were if sweden beat them and qualified instead
Sweden lost to Germany.
On the subject of “the modern game”, it has become ridiculous how players scream out in pain when they get clipped, as though they are mortally injured.
That didn’t happen in years gone by.
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didn't realize that Sanchez is the bloke that plays for tottenham - i've always thought he thinks he is better than he really is meaning he is in present world cup terminology he's Boeteng in disguise - a mistake just waiting to happen let's just hope tonites the nite folks
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Columbia are looking a right set of thugs
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Get Sterling off ffs!
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I'm sure Columbia will kick him off for you. They nearly did for Alli
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VAR letting us down again, a clear red card for the headbut
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Get Sterling off ffs!
Get the blinkers off.
I bet you were going to write that tonight come what may.
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Alli has been way worse than Sterling, at least Sterling is getting involved. We started well but faded a bit, hopefully we’ll come out fighting again second half.
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Why does Sterling insist on hitting the ball at the oppositions legs all the time?
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All just keeps giving it away if anyone need to be subbed its him
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Goal Kane :scarf:
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Why are referees so f**king spineless. Give them a yellow card when they surround you. Cheating bas**rds.
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Justice has been done. The behaviour of the Columbians is appalling
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Baccalaureate on 2 seconds and already a yellow card!
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England are really impressing me how they're keeping their composure and control, it's a good sign for a young team.
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Baccalaureate on 2 seconds and already a yellow card!
Baccalaureate on 2 seconds and already a yellow card!
Bl**system predictive texting. He'd only get one of those in cheating
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Wow, didn’t expected for Colombia to score :ohmy:
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Its to be hoped we get another penalty as its the only way we will score.
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Whatever happens, I’m proud that of English football for the first time in years.
Colombia have been a disgrace. If that’s what it takes to win, the game’s not worth it. Harry Maguire should get a special FIFA award for his response to that incident in the box, after the way Colombia behaved.
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Quality game. This could go anyway now, goals, pens, red cards both ways.
Whatever you think about the Colombian tactics, it's worked. England are looking progressively ragged, giving the ball away far too easily.
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Rubbish, Southgate. Get Duerden on
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Reminded of some rovers games when we gave away late goals. :rolleyes:
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I see Dier hasn't improved any since the Belgium game.
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Columbia are looking a right set of thugs
Colombia
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Reminded of some rovers games when we gave away late goals. :rolleyes:
Must have reminded you of a lot of games then.
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A great feeling to win a shoot out.
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Well done lads. :thumbsup:
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Great feeling. England better team but need to be much more creative as they are a good side.
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Yeahhhhhhhhhhhh
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Maguire MoM for me
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We lost our way after going one up but what a feeling to end that jinx
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Maguire MoM for me
Without a doubt, he was immense
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I said before the match how brilliant Gareth Southgate is. England usually fold under the pressure. He brings calmness to the team and that's why we won. Columbia are dirty sods who deserved to lose anyway.
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really pleased for Harry Kane scoring it would have been a disaster for him of all people to miss
hendersons penalty wasn't all that bad but he gave it away how nervous he was by doing the silly keep me uppies with the ball (the xperts say his body shape gave it away )
itv asking questions about penalty strategy - please reveal all - so the future opposition can listen -- hope the players have been taught to say $hite to the interviewers and keep the secrets in house
nice to see cheats didn't prosper
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really pleased for Harry Kane scoring it would have been a disaster for him of all people to miss
hendersons penalty wasn't all that bad but he gave it away how nervous he was by doing the silly keep me uppies with the ball (the xperts say his body shape gave it away )
itv asking questions about penalty strategy - please reveal all - so the future opposition can listen -- hope the players have been taught to say $hite to the interviewers and keep the secrets in house
nice to see cheats didn't prosper
Agree with all of that and ditto on McGuire as MoM.
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Maguire MoM for me
Without a doubt, he was immense
in all the matches so far have you all noticed how Maguire gets his head on 90% of the headers when attacking from corners etc he seems to have a knack of doing it
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Maguire MoM for me
Without a doubt, he was immense
in all the matches so far have you all noticed how Maguire gets his head on 90% of the headers when attacking from corners etc he seems to have a knack of doing it
Anderson will do that for us next season.
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The two Harry's for us were world class! Columbia were utter b*stards but they have to try to win any way possible
so glad we actually won on penalties it was emotional!
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The two Harry's for us were world class! Columbia were utter b*stards but they have to try to win any way possible
so glad we actually won on penalties it was emotional!
When the commentator said just before the shoot out,”now who feels sick”, I was definitely one of those that did.
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Maguire MoM for me
Maguire was superb. I thought he was poor in the group matches but excellent tonight.
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f**king hell. That was tense. I know it's a cliche, but that is a win for football. Then ref should have set his tone early and booked several of them the first time they surrounded him and physically hassled him. Every f**king decision they delayed and complained about. Until we scored.
Adios and good f**king riddance.
That was well cathartic.
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At least Sweden will be a proper game of football with barely a yellow card to be seen.
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Get Sterling off ffs!
He should have stayed on
We got so much worse when he went off
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It was when the shape changed with Dier coming on. Hope Southgate learns from it.
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Columbia are looking a right set of thugs
Colombia
Still a set of thugs
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I think England deserved it and Colombia; big, strong, physical, organised and a pain in arse to play against, were always going to be difficult to play against.
It nearly worked for them so credit where it's due, but the better footballing side won.
I don't know if Sweden will change their tactics a bit on the basis of what they've seen the opposition do tonight.
I don’t get you Rigo, how can you give credit to that, if the ref has anything about him at least 3 would have been sent off for Columbia. Nothing to do with being physical and everything to do with intimidation and the official doing nothing about it
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Colombia? Professional footballers? Professional cheats, more like! An absolute disgrace to this “beautiful game.” My 65 years of a love affair with the game will rapidly come to an end if Colombia set the standard for the future.
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Fairly solid performance tonight.
Got to love McGuire he is a tank. Wins everything in the air, knocks people over and positive with the ball. Dier came on and immediately went into hiding. McGuire was almost always further up the pitch.
I still don’t think we are seeing enough of Sterling and Alli. Sterling is playing like he did in his first season at City. He hasn’t got a great first touch and he seems to run himself into trouble. Alli seems anonymous.
I thought the defence would be the weak link, but they are doing what the midfield are not. Foot on the ball, head up, wait for a team mate to find space and then pick the pass. They are almost playing with a Spanish philosophy.
Great feeling as an England fan tonight. Genuine positivity for the future with this performance.
I also have to tip my hat to Southgate. I thought he would be a terrible appointment but he has been fantastic so far.
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The game was too big for the American ref, let the Colombians bully and intimidate him, should not get another game in this World Cup
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How many people, before the WC started, would have said that our defenders would be the best players on the pitch?
I'm guessing not many!
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Today gave me more hope that we can actually win this, people said how good Colombia 🇨🇴 were, they had no interest in attacking and were god damn awful, while we were not brilliant at least we attacked and until the 90th min they were never going to score
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Ok folks, it's time for some straight talking. Yes, I'm as ecstatic as everyone else that we're in the quarter-finals, and I knew that we'd win the penalty shoot-out, based on nothing else but a hunch. However, I've watched 4 teams perform today; Sweden, Switzerland, Colombia, and England, and they were all absolutely atrocious.
People are saying that this is the most exciting World Cup there's ever been, and they're right, it has been, but why has it been exciting?; because most of the big teams have been knocked out, and why have they been knocked out?; because they were sh*te, and apart from Brazil, and maybe France, the remaining teams are crap as well.
Whilst admitting that this is the most exciting World Cup there's ever been, in terms of quality it's the worst I've ever seen, and I've seen a lot. Roll on England, it's looking like a lottery from now on in.
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Bpool
I agree. Tonight has made me think England can win the WC.
Tonight they showed maturity and calmness under severe provocation. They’ll need more, but maybe not till the final.
And Kane. Have we finally found a Klinsmann? Nothing flashy. But everything correct. Machine-like. That wins you a WC.
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And I wonder what price you’d get onStetling to score in the Final? He looked sharp early on. But a little unlucky. He won’t always be unlucky.
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I think England deserved it and Colombia; big, strong, physical, organised and a pain in arse to play against, were always going to be difficult to play against.
It nearly worked for them so credit where it's due, but the better footballing side won.
I don't know if Sweden will change their tactics a bit on the basis of what they've seen the opposition do tonight.
We rarely agree but I agree with every part of your post . I'm just pleased that they had a player or two out and that they didn't play as well as I saw them play earlier in the tournament. They sure were big and very physical - a good test for us . I get the impression some on here under- estimated them I'm very pleased our team didn't do the same
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We were not atrocious at all. Until about the 84th minute we played well, controlled the game and played sensibly. It all went wayward when we let them come onto us and extra time was simply a case of getting through it. But to say we were 'atrocious' is totally unfair.
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We were not atrocious at all. Until about the 84th minute we played well, controlled the game and played sensibly. It all went wayward when we let them come onto us and extra time was simply a case of getting through it. But to say we were 'atrocious' is totally unfair.
Alias, can you remember Ospinas having to make a save apart from the penalty shoot-out, because I can't.
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We were not atrocious at all. Until about the 84th minute we played well, controlled the game and played sensibly. It all went wayward when we let them come onto us and extra time was simply a case of getting through it. But to say we were 'atrocious' is totally unfair.
Alias, can you remember Ospinas having to make a save apart from the penalty shoot-out, because I can't.
Is that the one barameter of a team being "absolutely atrocious" then? Neither side came close to scoring from open play bar a hit-and-hope from Uribe that Pickford kept out superbly. But we played decent, controlled football for large spells and had a lot to contend with with the physical nature of the Colombian's tactics.
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There were few shots on goal for us because every time we got anywhere near their box there was a push or a trip or some other b*llocks...
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Now it's settled down a bit, can we have an answer to the antics of Colombia and why were they allowed to get away with it? FIFA must be squirming in their seats. If that is the best they can offer, then we may as well scrap referees altogether. And why was that head butt not a straight red - please enlighten me!
The referee lost control of that game from about minute 5 and by the end of the game he looked like he'd had enough!
Colombia should receive a massive fine for their appalling antics!
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Although we didn’t have many shots we controlled the game but for the first half of extra time. There were some young lads in our squad who could easily have lost their rag and retaliated - but they didn’t and you have to give huge credit for that. We got the result and gave a solid team performance. Southgate has them very well drilled.
Even BST has some cautious optimism for our chances now whichbhas to mean something!
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Appalling tactics from Colombia, they were a disgrace. I'm so chuffed they didn't prosper and England eventually prevailed
.
I couldn't believe how the ref allowed the Colombia players to crowd and jostle him, arguing with every decision and wasting time. He should have dished some cards out for that, he gave them far too much leeway and they abused it totally.
Thank heavens the ref did eventually give the pen for the wrestling in the box though.
Other than a lapse by Henderson with the slight 'backward head-butt' we kept our cool in the face of massive intimidation, so huge credit to the England players.
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Appalling tactics from Colombia, they were a disgrace. I'm so chuffed they didn't prosper and England eventually prevailed
.
I couldn't believe how the ref allowed the Colombia players to crowd and jostle him, arguing with every decision and wasting time. He should have dished some cards out for that, he gave them far too much leeway and they abused it totally.
Thank heavens the ref did eventually give the pen for the wrestling in the box though.
Other than a lapse by Henderson with the slight 'backward head-butt' we kept our cool in the face of massive intimidation, so huge credit to the England players.
According to the Colombian manager it was England who were conning the ref, "England have a great weapon in the air. Players fall in the box. They collide and fall. It's hurtful. "
About as much dignity off the pitch as on it.
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f**k them.
It's coming home
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Appalling tactics from Colombia, they were a disgrace. I'm so chuffed they didn't prosper and England eventually prevailed
.
I couldn't believe how the ref allowed the Colombia players to crowd and jostle him, arguing with every decision and wasting time. He should have dished some cards out for that, he gave them far too much leeway and they abused it totally.
Thank heavens the ref did eventually give the pen for the wrestling in the box though.
Other than a lapse by Henderson with the slight 'backward head-butt' we kept our cool in the face of massive intimidation, so huge credit to the England players.
According to the Colombian manager it was England who were conning the ref, "England have a great weapon in the air. Players fall in the box. They collide and fall. It's hurtful. "
About as much dignity off the pitch as on it.
If he said that I think FIFA should require him to attend a drug test, he's obviously been on his Country's most famous export
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Anyone else feel like they were watching Rovers last night? Very few shots, concede late equaliser.
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I would also ask their defender to explain scrubbing the penalty spot with his studs while they were arguing about the penalty.
They ought to be made an example of by retrospective action.
If players from all countries played the game in a sporting manner it would be far better to watch and easier for the officials to control.
Look at England v Brazil in 1970, mutual respect and far more honesty than you see now. I always remember Pele and Bobby Moore walking off together at the end.
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I would also ask their defender to explain scrubbing the penalty spot with his studs while they were arguing about the penalty.
They ought to be made an example of by retrospective action.
There was 3 or 4 of them at it. Colombia regularly cheated in the game.
It was a shame to see England players berating the ref on numerous occasions, however. Until now i think our discipline has been pretty exemplary. Southgate needs to cut that out.
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The Ref was 100% right to give the Penalty on HK - I mean the bloke literally jumped on his back for a piggy back just as the Ref looked that way
Then the antics started - and its true he did himself no favours at all. Pull out a Yello and say its one for every Player in the Box by the time I get out of it myself. There will be no VAR - Its a 100% CAST IRON Penalty
... and did anyone else get sick of hearing the phrase " fouled by Barrios" ? After escaping the VAR Red for the head butt he still continued to foul and "cheat" for the rest of the game and went unpunished. How they finished with 11 is quite beyond me. Goodye and good riddance (to them not you my fellow Forumites)
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Colombia might have played like devils but England had God on their side.
https://mobile.twitter.com/JohnSentamu
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Colombia might have played like devils but England had God on their side.
https://mobile.twitter.com/JohnSentamu
Funny you should say that BST, I paid a visit yesterday.
https://twitter.com/biggazlaw/status/1014137932335190016?s=21
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Yeah well done on almost succeeding at cheating and conning the ref, at least you did what you were good at lads(!)
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Columbia are a poor side, especially without James, and they nearly won. Can’t fault them for how they went about things.
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I wonder if Colombia's two penalty takes that missed will be murdered, anyone remember Andreas Escobar after he scored the own goal that knocked them out once?
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I think England deserved it and Colombia; big, strong, physical, organised and a pain in arse to play against, were always going to be difficult to play against.
It nearly worked for them so credit where it's due, but the better footballing side won.
I don't know if Sweden will change their tactics a bit on the basis of what they've seen the opposition do tonight.
I don’t get you Rigo, how can you give credit to that, if the ref has anything about him at least 3 would have been sent off for Columbia. Nothing to do with being physical and everything to do with intimidation and the official doing nothing about it
They played to their strengths and knew exactly what they were doing. It was a clear and obvious game plan and they nearly executed it to perfection.
Had Henderson been sent off, they'd have got exactly what they wanted.
A gameplan of cheating.
I reckon a team could set out with the gameplan of literally punching all opposition players in the game and you'd praise them for executing it to perfection when they lose the game by forfeit for having too many men sent off.
Colombia were a disgrace last night, and for me it was worse than Panama because you could understand the reasons for Panama doing it - they knew they were vastly inferior to us skill-wise so had to come up with another way to get at us. Not that it worked.
Colombia however are supposed to be a proper football team. I didn't see all this "shithousery" (to use a word a lot are using to describe such sides in this tournament) in their group stage games I saw with Japan and Senegal. They have some excellent footballers even without Rodriguez - Quintero, Cuadrado, Falcao - yet all they wanted to do was find as many ways to cheat as possible. Several of their players were nothing short of embarrassments to their nation the way they acted, particularly Barrios, Mina and Falcao.
Beforehand I was worried because I knew Colombia had some dangerous players and expected them to play football, but they didn't even try. Until the final few minutes of normal time they didn't have a sniff of a goal and barely got out of their own half in any meaningful fashion. Just fouls all over the pitch, constant moaning to the referee and blatant cheating tactics like the penalty spot fiasco. Most kicks in the shoot-out had to be taken from aside the spot because of that as well, perhaps in a small way that ended up benefitting us.
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Reading the comments about Sterling and you've got to remember he's receiving the ball with 3/4 opposition players around him with his back to goal. It's not easy and i think he does a good job. Just missing a goal he is but for me he keeps his shirt, Rashford is better from the bench with is probably why his club manager has used him that way.
Alli however does give it away too easily, i appreciate he's trying to make things happen so you get that a bit but i just don't think he's fit.
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Alli is the interesting one for me. I've seen a fair bit of Spurs over the past few years as my mate has a ST, and pretty much every time I have seen him play he's been on the periphery of the game, or given the ball away far too much. However, he always seems to pop up with a vital goal or an assist for Spurs. With England, he also seems to be on the periphery but he doesn't have those "moments" either to justify his place. Add to that that at this World Cup he has never looked quite fit or comfortable and you're left with the question if he justifies his place.
Not sure he does but he does do a fair bit of defensive work and if you replaced him with Rashford or Welbeck you'd lose that. RLC and Delph are alternatives but they're more defensive minded so you'd miss that potential spark up top. If he's fit, I'd start him against Sweden and hope he starts firing.
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Alli is the interesting one for me. I've seen a fair bit of Spurs over the past few years as my mate has a ST, and pretty much every time I have seen him play he's been on the periphery of the game, or given the ball away far too much. However, he always seems to pop up with a vital goal or an assist for Spurs. With England, he also seems to be on the periphery but he doesn't have those "moments" either to justify his place. Add to that that at this World Cup he has never looked quite fit or comfortable and you're left with the question if he justifies his place.
Not sure he does but he does do a fair bit of defensive work and if you replaced him with Rashford or Welbeck you'd lose that. RLC and Delph are alternatives but they're more defensive minded so you'd miss that potential spark up top. If he's fit, I'd start him against Sweden and hope he starts firing.
Delph is in England at the moment
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It's pretty clear to me from the way games have been refereed that FIFA has told the refs not to flash too many cards. I think in doing so they have done the game and the referees a huge disservice.
No-one wants to see cards being thrown around for nothing, but it has meant some really serious dissent has been tolerated.
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Alli is the interesting one for me. I've seen a fair bit of Spurs over the past few years as my mate has a ST, and pretty much every time I have seen him play he's been on the periphery of the game, or given the ball away far too much. However, he always seems to pop up with a vital goal or an assist for Spurs. With England, he also seems to be on the periphery but he doesn't have those "moments" either to justify his place. Add to that that at this World Cup he has never looked quite fit or comfortable and you're left with the question if he justifies his place.
Not sure he does but he does do a fair bit of defensive work and if you replaced him with Rashford or Welbeck you'd lose that. RLC and Delph are alternatives but they're more defensive minded so you'd miss that potential spark up top. If he's fit, I'd start him against Sweden and hope he starts firing.
Delph is in England at the moment
He's probably mid-air at the moment. He'll be available for Saturday's game (not that I'd start him anyway).
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https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/soccer/worldcup/2018/07/04/world-cup-2018-mark-geiger-colombia-england-radamel-falcao/757567002/
f**k ‘em. And Maradona who weighs in probably angling for some discounted coke. They can moan all they want but they had just as much potential to win in the shoot out and blew it...
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Alli is the interesting one for me. I've seen a fair bit of Spurs over the past few years as my mate has a ST, and pretty much every time I have seen him play he's been on the periphery of the game, or given the ball away far too much. However, he always seems to pop up with a vital goal or an assist for Spurs. With England, he also seems to be on the periphery but he doesn't have those "moments" either to justify his place. Add to that that at this World Cup he has never looked quite fit or comfortable and you're left with the question if he justifies his place.
Not sure he does but he does do a fair bit of defensive work and if you replaced him with Rashford or Welbeck you'd lose that. RLC and Delph are alternatives but they're more defensive minded so you'd miss that potential spark up top. If he's fit, I'd start him against Sweden and hope he starts firing.
Alli is only carrying on his form from last season. He was a shadow of the player he was the previous season. He shouldn’t be starting. I don’t even think he’s fully fit.
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It's pretty clear to me from the way games have been refereed that FIFA has told the refs not to flash too many cards. I think in doing so they have done the game and the referees a huge disservice.
No-one wants to see cards being thrown around for nothing, but it has meant some really serious dissent has been tolerated.
i pointed out on another thread about games involving those "nice" people from Croatia having the most cards average per match
sky came on this morning and IF we are to believe them said Croatia had the top yellow cards with 8 and surprise surprise Uruguay had received a mere one yellow card (obviously past performances are no longer a guide ... regarding them -at this moment in time) Brazil were very low
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https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/soccer/worldcup/2018/07/04/world-cup-2018-mark-geiger-colombia-england-radamel-falcao/757567002/
f**k ‘em. And Maradona who weighs in probably angling for some discounted coke. They can moan all they want but they had just as much potential to win in the shoot out and blew it...
Ha ha, i think he has been snorting to much of his Country's famous produce if he really thinks that 😂😂😂😂😂
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Their behaviour was a disgrace and should warrant a reprimand from FIFA plus action to make sure that it doesn't happen again, by any team. They were almost out of control.
I also can't believe the foul throws that they were allowed to get away with as well. We'd have been bollocked at junior school for trying those, they were almost bent double a couple of times.
The evidence is all on video and anybody with eyes could see who the nasty cheating team were. They were an insult to football.
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I think we've seen gamesmanship beyond belief against England and thankfully some of it has been picked up and punished. We've got to take it as a compliment and rise above it. Hopefully, justice will see us prevail, as long as we keep our discipline.
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No shame these South Americans
'Monumental robbery': Maradona lashes out after England v Colombia game
http://news.sky.com/story/monumental-robbery-maradona-lashes-out-after-england-v-colombia-game-11426216
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He's got a f**king cheek the coked up fat Kitson.
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He's got a f**king cheek the coked up fat Kitson.
I think they've all had a massive coke party after the game, the comments from him and the Colombia camp are laughable
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I had to laugh at the end of injury time when their coach went from pointing at his wrist for the ref to add more time on he changed to blowing an imaginary whistle to end it as soon as they had scored.
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Great support from the Colombians, at least they drowned out our dirge of a national anthem when the English sang it.
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I wonder if Colombia's two penalty takes that missed will be murdered, anyone remember Andreas Escobar after he scored the own goal that knocked them out once?
I remember it well Filo; it was against USA in 94. I couldn't stop laughing at the dirty drugged-up bas**rds even then.
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No shame these South Americans
'Monumental robbery': Maradona lashes out after England v Colombia game
http://news.sky.com/story/monumental-robbery-maradona-lashes-out-after-england-v-colombia-game-11426216
Maradona is probably the last person in the world to complain about cheating.
Glad our victory got under his skin though/
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It's funny how the hand of God only appears when you win if you are Maradonna.
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Ahh, Maradona. That beacon of fair play in football. Surely his opinions about England are completely impartial too...
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Did I see a TV documentary advertised recently that compared Maradona and Pele? There is no comparison, Pele was everything that Maradona is not. If England are pissing him off I'm glad because he's more than pissed me off over the years. Shame, he used to have some skill
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I wonder if Colombia's two penalty takes that missed will be murdered, anyone remember Andreas Escobar after he scored the own goal that knocked them out once?
I remember it well Filo; it was against USA in 94. I couldn't stop laughing at the dirty drugged-up bas**rds even then.
I'm talking about what happened to Andreas Escobar afterwards
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I remember that own goal vividly. They put a close up of his face on the TV immediately after it crossed the line & Escobar had the look of a haunted man.
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There's an excellent film called 'The two Escobars' which deserves a watch. It's on You Tube I think.
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There's an excellent film called 'The two Escobars' which deserves a watch. It's on You Tube I think.
On my to watch list. Not on youtube as far as I can see but easily available here for free
http://watchdocumentaries.com/the-two-escobars/ (http://watchdocumentaries.com/the-two-escobars/)
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I wonder if Colombia's two penalty takes that missed will be murdered, anyone remember Andreas Escobar after he scored the own goal that knocked them out once?
I remember it well Filo; it was against USA in 94. I couldn't stop laughing at the dirty drugged-up bas**rds even then.
It's up to you which teams you prefer but "dirty drugged-up bas**rds"? Where do you get that opinion from?
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Sterling will never win everyone over..he is a quick,hardworking and a risk taker that occupies and frightens opposition giving other players the space to play and use their different attributes,it won’t always come off individually for him but don’t underestimate his effect
Borrowed from a tweet from Kevin Horlock
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I wonder if Colombia's two penalty takes that missed will be murdered, anyone remember Andreas Escobar after he scored the own goal that knocked them out once?
I remember it well Filo; it was against USA in 94. I couldn't stop laughing at the dirty drugged-up bas**rds even then.
It's up to you which teams you prefer but "dirty drugged-up bas**rds"? Where do you get that opinion from?
What?; you don't think Colombian football is dirty?; you must have been watching a different game to me the other night, and they've never been any different.
As regards drugs, surely you know what the Colombian economy depends on. There were suspicions that Escobar may have been murdered because of that, rather than the own goal.
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What?; you don't think Colombian football is dirty?; you must have been watching a different game to me the other night, and they've never been any different.
As regards drugs, surely you know what the Colombian economy depends on. There were suspicions that Escobar may have been murdered because of that, rather than the own goal.
You referred to '94. Not the most yellow carded team per game in that tournement, some of the play was sublime, but the whole team was messed up - see this for example https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/what-really-went-wrong-colombia-usa-94 (https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/what-really-went-wrong-colombia-usa-94)
I can't see any evidence that they have always played like they did in that game the other night. Even in this world cup they had 3 yellows in the group stage, and then the red for handball.
The drugged up people are the Yanks who buy the stuff and created the drug industry in the first place. Or maybe you can refer to something solid that points to the players being coked up?
Several theories on why Escobar was shot. The major factor was the drug thug culture, funded by the US buyers. The immediate reason appears to be more that he was in amongst all that, something kicked off and during the shooting some anger re the goal was expressed.
It's widely reported that Escobar was a gent, a sophisticated player, very much the opposite of being "dirty".
Whatever you might think about that one game, I can't for the life of me see how you can say the team of '94 were "dirty drugged-up bas**rds", or that they were drugged up the other night. You're way off the mark with thise comments, and maybe didn't mean what you said, or how it comes across. I don't know - maybe you had too much coke when typing :evil:
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What?; you don't think Colombian football is dirty?; you must have been watching a different game to me the other night, and they've never been any different.
As regards drugs, surely you know what the Colombian economy depends on. There were suspicions that Escobar may have been murdered because of that, rather than the own goal.
You referred to '94. Not the most yellow carded team per game in that tournement, some of the play was sublime, but the whole team was messed up - see this for example https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/what-really-went-wrong-colombia-usa-94 (https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/what-really-went-wrong-colombia-usa-94)
I can't see any evidence that they have always played like they did in that game the other night. Even in this world cup they had 3 yellows in the group stage, and then the red for handball.
The drugged up people are the Yanks who buy the stuff and created the drug industry in the first place. Or maybe you can refer to something solid that points to the players being coked up?
Several theories on why Escobar was shot. The major factor was the drug thug culture, funded by the US buyers. The immediate reason appears to be more that he was in amongst all that, something kicked off and during the shooting some anger re the goal was expressed.
It's widely reported that Escobar was a gent, a sophisticated player, very much the opposite of being "dirty".
Whatever you might think about that one game, I can't for the life of me see how you can say the team of '94 were "dirty drugged-up bas**rds", or that they were drugged up the other night. You're way off the mark with thise comments, and maybe didn't mean what you said, or how it comes across. I don't know - maybe you had too much coke when typing :evil:
Guinness actually.
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Can't see us beating France, assuming we reach the final - and assuming they do, of course, which I can't see them not doing.
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What an absolute shambolic showing from French and Uruguayan players right now. Paid millions per year to acts like pillocks. What impression do young kids get watching this? Zero discipline, tact, respect, honesty, grace.
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Can't see us beating France, assuming we reach the final - and assuming they do, of course, which I can't see them not doing.
I don’t rate France. Don’t deserve to be 2-0 up here. Good players but not a good team.
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More rolling around antics, from Mbappe this time. At least he got a card for it this time.
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More rolling around antics, from Mbappe this time. At least he got a card for it this time.
There’s a lot at stake. Trying to con the ref is part of doing all you can to win.
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More rolling around antics, from Mbappe this time. At least he got a card for it this time.
There’s a lot at stake. Trying to con the ref is part of doing all you can to win.
No it's not. And besides that pretty terrible point, France were 2-0 up and cruising at the time. It's embarrassing as a player and as an adult, quite frankly.
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We sometimes see it at our games.players rolling around in agony next minute showing no sign of a problem.
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More rolling around antics, from Mbappe this time. At least he got a card for it this time.
There’s a lot at stake. Trying to con the ref is part of doing all you can to win.
If that is the only way to win win how can you look in the mirror every morning? It's time that the authorities had a right clamp down.
I can't remember any Rovers fans praising Lewis Guy for his Tom Daley impressions. There is no room in the fame for it.
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More rolling around antics, from Mbappe this time. At least he got a card for it this time.
There’s a lot at stake. Trying to con the ref is part of doing all you can to win.
If that is the only way to win win how can you look in the mirror every morning? It's time that the authorities had a right clamp down.
I can't remember any Rovers fans praising Lewis Guy for his Tom Daley impressions. There is no room in the fame for it.
Other countries have a different mentality to us. They will do anything can to win.
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Brazil defense shocking.
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Reckon I could run down Brazil's left side and score a goal.
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More rolling around antics, from Mbappe this time. At least he got a card for it this time.
There’s a lot at stake. Trying to con the ref is part of doing all you can to win.
If that is the only way to win win how can you look in the mirror every morning? It's time that the authorities had a right clamp down.
I can't remember any Rovers fans praising Lewis Guy for his Tom Daley impressions. There is no room in the fame for it.
Players will continue cheating as long as they are allowed to get away with it. Yes the players are at fault but the authorities are the biggest culprits. They could stop it tomorrow if they wanted to.
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Extreme close up of Graeme Jones Jones Jones on the box in the Brazil v Belgium game - absolutely brilliant! Lol - c'mon Belgium - let's see you in the final (fingers crossed!)
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Yes, how good is it to see an ex-Rover involved at such a high level?
When I used to see big Graeme playing up front for us at old Belle Vue I always knew he would end up being a coach at the World Cup.....
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No More Neymar...
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Huge credit to Belgium. Actually they played the way I would have expected Brazil to play. They thoroughly deserved that win.
Naymar? Complete and utter prat. Too busy trying to cheat.
I’d say DeBruyne showed him how to play football tonight and I’d have the Belgian in my team any time ahead of that cheat.
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Now, the only teams remained in the tournament are from Europe :woot:
Did you know that General De Gaulle used to claim that Belgium was invented by the English to annoy the French? :lol:
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Belgium's front 3 are the best front 3 in history and are carrying an otherwise 6/10 side. Their trophy to lose now.
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They were lucky Belgium. They were clinical in the first half and dodged plenty of bullets in the second.
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Neymar throwing his foot at Fellaini was a joke. Jesus should have had a penalty though.
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Belgium's front 3 are the best front 3 in history and are carrying an otherwise 6/10 side. Their trophy to lose now.
Messi Neymar Suarez surely?
Can’t believe it’s taken this long to push De Bruyne forward, though.
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Can't see us beating France, assuming we reach the final - and assuming they do, of course, which I can't see them not doing.
If Hazard plays like he did tonight, I can't see France beating Belgium.
Should be a bloody great game though!
As for play-acting, theatrics, etc, I don't mind it - it's just doing what you can to win. But with VAR it doesn't work, which is or isn't a bad thing depending on everyone's own personal viewpoint on VAR.
VAR has been excellent. I was dead against it beforehand as I didn't think it was ready but it's improved the game loads. It's got nearly everything right too, probably 95% or more so the game is all the better for it.
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They were lucky Belgium.
You must be joking Gaz. Belgium thoroughly deserved that win, they were much better than Brazil in every department.
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They were lucky Belgium.
You must be joking Gaz. Belgium thoroughly deserved that win, they were much better than Brazil in every department.
Brazil had by far the better chances.
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Can't see us beating France, assuming we reach the final - and assuming they do, of course, which I can't see them not doing.
If Hazard plays like he did tonight, I can't see France beating Belgium.
Should be a bloody great game though!
As for play-acting, theatrics, etc, I don't mind it - it's just doing what you can to win. But with VAR it doesn't work, which is or isn't a bad thing depending on everyone's own personal viewpoint on VAR.
VAR has been excellent. I was dead against it beforehand as I didn't think it was ready but it's improved the game loads. It's got nearly everything right too, probably 95% or more so the game is all the better for it.
Not liked it one bit during last season whenever I've seen it, largely due to the haphazard way it was implemented by some officials (see Mainz's VAR controversy for an example) but I agree - at the World Cup it's been very good and implemented properly.
If Neymar hadn't spent most of the tournament pissing about, he might have got that penalty around the hour mark tonight.
Hopefully even if it was given the ref would have seen what Neymar did on VAR.
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They were lucky Belgium.
You must be joking Gaz. Belgium thoroughly deserved that win, they were much better than Brazil in every department.
To be fair Brazil missed 4/5 absolute sitters, 2 of them in the first 10 minutes, and should have had a penalty. Belgium were ruthless but they spent the entire second half pinned back, if it wasn't for Hazard putting in one of the best captain's performances I've ever seen constantly bringing the ball upfield they would have been camped in their own penalty area.
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Courtois was immense too. Made some top class saves. Belgium played well from back to front tonight. Yes, Brazil missed some good chances but that's the beauty of the game isn't it? I thought Belgium were the better team overall.
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They were lucky Belgium.
You must be joking Gaz. Belgium thoroughly deserved that win, they were much better than Brazil in every department.
Brazil had by far the better chances.
And missed them all. They were never composed, never played the possession football we expect from them, they always looked vulnerable to Belgium’s attacks....
Second best by some margin.
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Respect for Courtois setting the record straight regarding his comments about Pickfird.
He’s shitting himself for when we meet in the final.......
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Belgium were very good in the first half but we’re hanging on for the majority of the 2nd
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Can't see us beating France, assuming we reach the final - and assuming they do, of course, which I can't see them not doing.
If Hazard plays like he did tonight, I can't see France beating Belgium.
Should be a bloody great game though!
As for play-acting, theatrics, etc, I don't mind it - it's just doing what you can to win. But with VAR it doesn't work, which is or isn't a bad thing depending on everyone's own personal viewpoint on VAR.
VAR has been excellent. I was dead against it beforehand as I didn't think it was ready but it's improved the game loads. It's got nearly everything right too, probably 95% or more so the game is all the better for it.
Not liked it one bit during last season whenever I've seen it, largely due to the haphazard way it was implemented by some officials (see Mainz's VAR controversy for an example) but I agree - at the World Cup it's been very good and implemented properly.
If Neymar hadn't spent most of the tournament pissing about, he might have got that penalty around the hour mark tonight.
Fully agree Rigo.
And whilst I wouldn't call Belgium lucky, as that does a disservice to their excellent first half performance and resilience in the second half, it's undeniable that on another day Brazil would have scored 4/5. Hazard and Courtois both made a big difference as did the midfield duo of Fellaini and Witsel.
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As much as I want England to win today and to do well at the World Cup, is anyone else thinking all the #itscominghome stuff is a bit premature?
Enjoy the occasion today, Sweden aren’t a pushover but we have a good chance of reaching the semi final for the first time in a generation..
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As much as I want England to win today and to do well at the World Cup, is anyone else thinking all the #itscominghome stuff is a bit premature?
Enjoy the occasion today, Sweden aren’t a pushover but we have a good chance of reaching the semi final for the first time in a generation..
I think you're missing the ironic fun behind it. For once I think most are just happy to have a team and management team acting and performing how we all want regardless of how good they are they really actually give a shit and that's all we want.
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That and the fact that #itscominghome
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On the contrary, I think the atmosphere is fully justified.. just being cautious that’s all..
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I'll give Southgate his dues, he's got the country fully backing England for the first time I can remember. There's normally an air of "we're shit", but the hysteria is dragging everyone along and it's bloody enjoyable.
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Belgium's front 3 are the best front 3 in history and are carrying an otherwise 6/10 side. Their trophy to lose now.
I wouldn't disagree with that assessment generally but 6/10 for the rest of the team - a couple of weaknesses in there but 6/10 That is a harsh assessment .
However that front 3 is exceptional - all can hold the ball, dribble the ball, have an exceptional eye for a pass as well as positional sense and an unerring determination as well as ability to fire that trigger at just the right time . A joy to watch yesterday.
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Can't see us beating France, assuming we reach the final - and assuming they do, of course, which I can't see them not doing.
If Hazard plays like he did tonight, I can't see France beating Belgium.
Should be a bloody great game though!
As for play-acting, theatrics, etc, I don't mind it - it's just doing what you can to win. But with VAR it doesn't work, which is or isn't a bad thing depending on everyone's own personal viewpoint on VAR.
Yes this is set-up to be one of those memorable , classic World Cup games . If we fail to get there I would back that Belgium team to win now .
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Lukaku was exceptional yesterday - saw a part to his game that I have never really seen before with his passing and running with the ball. Either playing with Hazard & De Bruyne lifts his confidence or Martinez gives him more license, either way I'd like to see more of it in the Premier League.
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This sums up the Brazil game...
https://twitter.com/markohaire/status/1015515943638851584?s=21
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Lukaku was exceptional yesterday - saw a part to his game that I have never really seen before with his passing and running with the ball. Either playing with Hazard & De Bruyne lifts his confidence or Martinez gives him more license, either way I'd like to see more of it in the Premier League.
He used to play that way for Everton s fair bit, certainly his dribbling skills were always used to good effect there. He's never been a "lump it up to the big man" striker by any means.
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Get in.!
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Could Sterling score with an empty goal in front of him?
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A great touch from the keeper denied Sterling then, but he should have passed to Kane..
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Sterling is going to get one. He's making the runs. Unlucky with that last effort. Difficult to control those balls and keeper got a hand to it. But it'll come. And it will do him the world of good.
Great performance by England so far.
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Could Sterling score with an empty goal in front of him?
Don't criticise Sterling you'll have the Hound on your back.
To be fair Sterling is frightening them to death. They obviously don't know he can't finish.
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A great touch from the keeper denied Sterling then, but he should have passed to Kane..
Yeah, both Kane and Alli (I think) were in better positions.
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FFS how many more chances does he need.
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Maguire MoM for me
Without a doubt, he was immense
in all the matches so far have you all noticed how Maguire gets his head on 90% of the headers when attacking from corners etc he seems to have a knack of doing it
Anderson will do that for us next season.
nice to see him finally getting a result with his header :that: :that: :that:
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Maguire MoM for me
Without a doubt, he was immense
in all the matches so far have you all noticed how Maguire gets his head on 90% of the headers when attacking from corners etc he seems to have a knack of doing it
Anderson will do that for us next season.
nice to see him finally getting a result with his header :that: :that: :that:
I hope your right.
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What a save by Pickford at the start of the second half! :clapping:
Phew!
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Maguire MoM for me
Without a doubt, he was immense
in all the matches so far have you all noticed how Maguire gets his head on 90% of the headers when attacking from corners etc he seems to have a knack of doing it
Anderson will do that for us next season.
nice to see him finally getting a result with his header :that: :that: :that:
I hope your right.
"
quote from bbc commentator "Harry keeps winning everything in there" - ffs amazing observation NOT suppose better late than never
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Yeeeeees! 2-0, Deli Alli.
:woohoo:
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Pickford is some keeper. Holy shiiiiit.
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Referee having an excellent game. Hardly a bad foul at all from either side. Contrast that with the Colombia game.
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All over, England 2-0! Bring on Russia or Croatia! :bbscarf:
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What an absolutely mag f**king nificent complete performance form England.
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What an absolutely mag f**king nificent complete performance form England.
A little OTT. It was a thoroughly competent performance against a Championship standard side. That’s not a criticism by the way. But “magnificent” is stretching it a bit.
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Again job done, theres momentum building in this side, two games to go, we can win this!
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Professional performance from front to back. Totally nullified Sweden. Could have and should have been more... Be interesting to see if there are any dodgy decisions in the Russia Croatia match...
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Live a little Billy you miserable sod. We’ve done something no one, least of all you, thought possible, just enjoy the moment and the possibilities that lay ahead.
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We've done something we haven't managed since before some people on here were born.
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I’m finding it hard to really judge this. There’s an unreality about getting this deep into a WC against such an awful set of opponents.
I’m enjoying England not underachieving, don’t get me wrong. But it just seems a bit odd to hype up a competent performance like that.
Or maybe it’s summat else.
52 years I’ve waited to see England in a WC Final. Next Sunday, I’m in an all-day meeting in Boston Massa-f**king-chusetts.
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What an absolutely mag f**king nificent complete performance form England.
A little OTT. It was a thoroughly competent performance against a Championship standard side. That’s not a criticism by the way. But “magnificent” is stretching it a bit.
Sweden Championship standard side :lol: :lol:
A team that beat France and Italy in qualifying, finished above Holland and then finished above Germany in their group. Which championship side can match that?
I don't know what 66 was like for you Billy but in my lifetime this is the best I've seen.
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It's the style Billy. They're acting like men not spoilt rich boys and I think that's what makes it exciting.
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Italy and Holland have their worst sides for a generation. Arguably Germany too. France? Yeah, good result. It happens.
My point is that we’ve just seen a perfectly competent performance from England against a side that was probably the weakest or second d weakest in the QFs. And that’s fine. You can only do what you need to do to beat what’s in front of you. We’re doing that well. And maybe there’s another gear for when we play a very good opponent. But I’m not really seeing it at the moment.
None of that says I won’t be on the edge of my seat on Weds night. You can be partisan and realistic at the same time.
I wouldn’t know about 66. I wasn’t born. Personally, I’d rank the current lot (in absolute terms and at the moment) behind the 82, 86 and 90 squads. They all showed that they had the ability to go toe to toe with the very best in the tournament and all three were unlucky not to go further. The current crop may well top them all. They’ve done very well to take advantage of the luckiest group and KO draw since Germany in 2002. Let’s see if there’s better to come.
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IMHO all we need to add is a bit more free flowing one touch passing and early crossing to our game.. having the ball in a great position on the edge of their box to cross to 3 or 4 waiting players but ending up at our goalie isn’t great to watch..
But we won.!!
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BST, do you not think you’re contradicting yourself? How can you possibly say in absolute terms that this squad is behind the 82 squad? You talk about how Coppinger, a career lower league player, was streets ahead of the best players in the world 50 years ago, and yet you think that this squad isn’t any better than their counterparts of 36 years ago?
You might call yourself a realist and you could be right, but f**k me it must be depressing. I’m all aboard the it’s coming home bandwagon.
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Nick
Yes. Bad choice of term. In fact totally incorrect choice of term. I meant “relative to the standard of the tournament.”
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wow watching England under Southgate is different we expect them to lump the ball forward get a flick on and chase it , much more intelligent football been played and patient build up not what we expect but if it win again who cares
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Not depressing in the slightest me old cocker. You’ve obviously never seen me in action during a match...
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wow watching England under Southgate is different we expect them to lump the ball forward get a flick on and chase it , much more intelligent football been played and patient build up not what we expect but if it win again who cares
It's very intelligent football isn't it.
And that's what you need in a tournament. All the analysis about levels can be done later, it's irrelevant now.
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In 1990 we only beat one team inside regulation time (egypt) and needed two!! Pens to beat an African team in the quarters (lowest ranked shittiest team left in it), England cried when they won, They cried when they lost, they cried before the match, they cried during the anthem and they cried when they got booked = overated primadonnas the lot of em.
66 they played all their games at Wembley . Worst Uruguayan and French teams in history and even though the Germans had loads and loads of World and European champions on their team they were still one or the poorest german teams ever.
This lot are shit too!! Semi Final whatever!
Best England Team ever = that one in the 80s that got two 0-0 draws in the last 12. Joy division, the clash, buzzcocks, Billy Bragg and i was 21 job done.
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Couldn't give a f**k how good the squads are relevant to tournaments past or how good or bad the standard of the tournament has been as long as we're the ones lifting the trophy at the end of it.
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Couldn't give a f**k how good the squads are relevant to tournaments past or how good or bad the standard of the tournament has been as long as we're the ones lifting the trophy at the end of it.
Even if we don't win the trophy, it's some achievement. People will talk about Spain, Germany, Argentina falling out earlier, Italy and the Netherlands not even qualifying, but before the tournament how often did you hear that this is the worst England World Cup squad ever? That Gareth Southgate was a nodding dog, FA Yes Man (and that was probably the amongst the more polite of descriptions, I heard far worse)?
However we've done it, we've got to the semi-final of the biggest tournament in the world, and we've done it with a squad who seem to be all in it together and have done it with a smile on their face. If people want to pick fault in that, so be it, but for me even if we lose the next round I'll be proud of our side and look back on this tournament as the first one in some years that I've really enjoyed as an England fan.
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All we have done so far is play four teams we are better than, won three and drawn one. Nothing spectacular. It’s just in the past we’ve failed to even do that.
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Don't understand at this point in the tournament how any English man can possibly be negative. We are in the Semi Final of the World F@cking Cup!! We have come across teams that have literally jumped on the backs of our players, rugby tackled our players and beaten them. We have beaten a team today that has previously had 3 clean sheets and beaten major international teams in the last year.
In the past an England team would have lost the last 2 games and drawn against Tunisia team but this team under Gareth Southgate have got fight, a style of player and a passion I have not seen from an England team probably for a long time!! Come on England!!!
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Couldn't give a f**k how good the squads are relevant to tournaments past or how good or bad the standard of the tournament has been as long as we're the ones lifting the trophy at the end of it.
Even if we don't win the trophy, it's some achievement. People will talk about Spain, Germany, Argentina falling out earlier, Italy and the Netherlands not even qualifying, but before the tournament how often did you hear that this is the worst England World Cup squad ever? That Gareth Southgate was a nodding dog, FA Yes Man (and that was probably the amongst the more polite of descriptions, I heard far worse)?
However we've done it, we've got to the semi-final of the biggest tournament in the world, and we've done it with a squad who seem to be all in it together and have done it with a smile on their face. If people want to pick fault in that, so be it, but for me even if we lose the next round I'll be proud of our side and look back on this tournament as the first one in some years that I've really enjoyed as an England fan.
I was very sceptical of his appointment. But he really has made the nation fall in love with this group of players and he's made us believe, even if it does go tits up between now and Sunday.
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I have to laugh when I read some of the posts, knocking this England team.
Good grief, apparently this is the worst set of opponents we have had to face, we have only beaten some second rate teams etc etc etc.
Befor the tournament began I got fed up of reading about the great German, Spanish and Brazil sides, even Belgium, and how we had no chance of winning it when those teams were in it.
Well, we have given ourselves a great chance of winning it and three of the teams that people were salivating over are at home watching us.
If we do end up as winners then no doubt the same people will be telling us how poor France or Belgium were on the day or that we got lucky when so and so happened in the game, but so what?
It will be a brilliant achievement by our young men and they should get the credit they deserve, not be looking for reasons why they were lucky to do so.
Even if we lose on Wednesday it has been a great tournament for us.
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OK so England might win the world cup but it's the worst standard of players at a tournament in living memory. Messi Ronaldo neymar mbappe hazard, none of those will be remembered as all time legends like the class of 82: such as that bloke that got knocked out by the German GK, A 15 year old Maradona and that Brazilian team that were out by group stages and as for OUR team wow! Ian Curtis, Joe Strummer and the goth guy from The Cure. What a team! 0-0 and then another 0-0 best two games we've ever played.
Not like this bunch of over paid, arrogant kids with too many over seas teammates and no winter break or 2nd division of top division reserves, they will never amount to anything.
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There’s a difference between being negative and saying it how it is which me and BST have. Having the chance to get to a WC final without having to beat a major nation is a miracle.
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Who would we rather play in the semi final then, Russia or Croatia?
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Ok, let me rephrase rather than negative, stop being so flipping miserable!!! Cheer the chuff up!! #itscominghome
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In all seriousness if England win the World Cup the THEY'VE WON THE WORLD CUP. If England get to the final of the world cup THEY'VE GOT TO THE FINAL OF THE WORLD CUP. they are currently in the Semis something that has only happened in our major tournament history 4 times (and 2.5 of them were on home soil). I think we're better than Italy, Germany,Uruguay,Argentina,Netherlands etc... at the moment but the truth is our inferiority complex means we probably needed the likes of Sweden, Iceland, Mexico, Croatia and Belgium to KO these big names. I would have loved Germany to stay in and I reckon Southgate would have as well, they were very very beatable and what a glorious story of redemption that would have been. Unfortunately Japan were better than them Mexico were better than them and Sweden should have beaten them too but because all those teams were better than the Germans that somehow makes England shit for not playing them. It's very weird.
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If we win the world cup we won't have won the world cup because gaz and bst, sat in their gazebo sipping cognac, thought the draw was too easy.
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Well this is the best world cup I've seen since 1990.
England have no fear and play with poise and confidence. We're where we are on merit. I don't give a f**k about which half of the draw blah blah blah. This set of players have a quiet confidence about them. They have some resolve. They play as a team, not a bunch of highly paid individuals. That's the difference. I'm loving it, tbh.
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Gaz
Not quite a miracle. And not even the easiest run to a final Germany in 2002 had Cameroon, Ireland and Saudi Arabia in their group. Then Paraguay in R2, USA in the QF and South Korea in the SF.
That was an awful Getmany side. Worst to get to a final in my lifetime. It happens occasionally.
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Why can't people just enjoy it without trying to rain on everyone else! Is there some weird pleasure people get out of bringing others down, a superiority complex or something like that?
We all know the draw is very favourable so i don't get what stating the obvious at every opportunity achieves unless it is a superiority "i know better than you" thing, which is just a bit sad. I'm not on about the forum as much as i am in general where this kind of self gratification seems to be widespread (especially behind keyboards)
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Copps
Come back when you’re sober.
You might then remember I was one of the ones two weeks ago and more saying England should make sure they lose to Belgium to get in the easier half of the draw.
Pretty straightforward to me. I can want England to win and be realistic about the quality of England and their opponents at the same time.
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I saw England win the world cup in 1966!
But there was only 16 teams in the competition that year and 10 of those were European teams a couple from south America and North Korea
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I love how threads develop a life of their own.
This discussion started off with CiM saying England were magnificent, me saying they did a competent job but it’s still hard to know how good they are.
A couple of hours later there’s folk getting their knickers in twist about negativity.
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Pickford has been immense. His focus, his positioning, his shot stopping, his command in the box, and for me the way he's playing the ball out has been outstanding. His kicking is some of the best I've seen. Some of his balls have been inch perfect passes and have been a big factor in England taking an advantage.
Still can't stand the fashion for palming out these days but I guess it's to do with the light balls.
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I saw England win the world cup in 1966!
But there was only 16 teams in the competition that year and 10 of those were European teams a couple from south America and North Korea
Good god - I was calming a couple of lads down in local Sainsburys today - and they were singing / chanting etc. I said whoa whoa dont go too early ! Its different for me I said as I have seen England WIN the World Cup so even if Sweden do us (which is unlikely) I at least have the main prize won already
What I did not realise (and I have the Progs etc) was there were so few Teams in it. Never mind we - still won and my other magic memory was that North Korea were the "underdogs" and well supported as well !
Still can only remember Pak doo Ik as a NK Player
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Brazil 58 crap. They beat Sweden, Wales, Austria and Russia.
Pele
Meh
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..... I at least have the main prize won already
Of course you do, is there anything you haven't won? ;)
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Pretty straightforward to me. I can want England to win and be realistic about the quality of England and their opponents at the same time.
Of course you can. Just as long as you do it at least a few years after the event in a retrospective kind of way. ('they were better than them', 'they were good but didn't achieve anything' etc. etc.). Not directly after the event. It's a knock-out tournament full of drama, luck, irrationality, surprises, styles, tactics. Basically the irrational half of the game you have to submit to if you're ever going to enjoy it.
And you clearly aren't being realistic about the quality of England at all. I think there's a distinct chance England are the best team in this competition. I didn't at first but I do now. To say they're only playing the likes of Ipswich or Rotherham so we can't properly judge if they deserve to make the semi- final- really is doing that.
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I got a wee bit emotional towards the end of today’s game.
I vividly remember watching the 66 Final as a 13 years old lad and as time has passed I wondered whether I would ever get to see my Country play in the WC Final again.
On a couple of occasions I thought we MIGHT do it but this time I really do think we will win it again.
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I saw England win the world cup in 1966!
But there was only 16 teams in the competition that year and 10 of those were European teams a couple from south America and North Korea
Good god - I was calming a couple of lads down in local Sainsburys today - and they were singing / chanting etc. I said whoa whoa dont go too early ! Its different for me I said as I have seen England WIN the World Cup so even if Sweden do us (which is unlikely) I at least have the main prize won already
What I did not realise (and I have the Progs etc) was there were so few Teams in it. Never mind we - still won and my other magic memory was that North Korea were the "underdogs" and well supported as well !
Still can only remember Pak doo Ik as a NK Player
Remember watching North Korea beat Italy 4-3 at goodison park
Awesome game and a massive shock!
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Brazil 58 crap. They beat Sweden, Wales, Austria and Russia.
Pele
Meh
You missed France.
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Copps. Great. You think we might be the best team in the tournament. That’s your prerogative. I think it’s impossible to tell as we’ve played some very ordinary sides. That’s my prerogative. It sort of escalated very quickly from there into folk giving their two pennorth about how one ought to behave and think. Odd really, but there you go.
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I saw England win the world cup in 1966!
But there was only 16 teams in the competition that year and 10 of those were European teams a couple from south America and North Korea
Good god - I was calming a couple of lads down in local Sainsburys today - and they were singing / chanting etc. I said whoa whoa dont go too early ! Its different for me I said as I have seen England WIN the World Cup so even if Sweden do us (which is unlikely) I at least have the main prize won already
What I did not realise (and I have the Progs etc) was there were so few Teams in it. Never mind we - still won and my other magic memory was that North Korea were the "underdogs" and well supported as well !
Still can only remember Pak doo Ik as a NK Player
Remember watching North Korea beat Italy 4-3 at goodison park
Awesome game and a massive shock!
A bit dodgy that memory of yours Bedale.
NK beat Italy 1-0 at Middlesbrough.
Maybe the game at a Goodison that you are thinking about was the one when NK went 3-0 up inside 25 minutes against Portugal but lost 5-3.
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What ever anyone's opinion on the England team is, everyone must agree that this current match has been awful and neither team are anything to worry about!
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We have played only average teams to the extent that the only unbeaten team we have played was Tunisia and only then because it was their first game.
BUT we would usually trip over our laces against one or more of these no worries AND this is tournament football where the aim is to win the trophy, not to play great football or to play every single one of the top-ranked teams. We are a clinical tournament team which at times can play good and intelligent football. That will do me.
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Just a thought: I wonder how well we would have performed under Sam Allardyce? Would we have even made the Finals themselves?
Only wondering!
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Just a thought: I wonder how well we would have performed under Sam Allardyce? Would we have even made the Finals themselves?
Only wondering!
No, what Southgate has done is ditch the old gaurd and picked a squad on form, not reputation. allardyce what not have picked the same squad, things are looking good at the moment for England, are n't we World Champions in one age group and European Champions in a couple of the other age groups?
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Just a thought: I wonder how well we would have performed under Sam Allardyce? Would we have even made the Finals themselves?
Only wondering!
No, what Southgate has done is ditch the old gaurd and picked a squad on form, not reputation. allardyce what not have picked the same squad, things are looking good at the moment for England, are n't we World Champions in one age group and European Champions in a couple of the other age groups?
Probably only because the standard of the opposition was crap though.
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Despite playing so so teams, we've at least done okay, good in places and most importantly warming up nicely. Many of the WC winning teams have had a slow build up to form during the finals, peaking at the right time. The question is, can we hit that higher gear when we need to?
A big plus for us too is the teamwork, the squad spirit, and I think the age of the squad is a plus in terms of fitness, and the attitude supported by the squad spirit.
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I remember a friend of mine saying
"can you believe how stupid France were in 98? No Cantona! No Ginola! What idiots"
I responded "err yeah they did win it though"
then he countered "But they would have won it better with them two in the squad"....... just to remind you they won it 3-0 vs Brazil.
I've had quite a few conversations with England fans from this sort of weird perspective and I genuinely don't understand it.
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Just a thought: I wonder how well we would have performed under Sam Allardyce? Would we have even made the Finals themselves?
Only wondering!
No, what Southgate has done is ditch the old gaurd and picked a squad on form, not reputation. allardyce what not have picked the same squad, things are looking good at the moment for England, are n't we World Champions in one age group and European Champions in a couple of the other age groups?
Very true!
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Jammy bas**rds
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2-1 for Croatia, Vida scored. I don’t think Russia can score their second one
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Man on the post and that header would never have gone in.
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Just a thought: I wonder how well we would have performed under Sam Allardyce? Would we have even made the Finals themselves?
Only wondering!
No, what Southgate has done is ditch the old gaurd and picked a squad on form, not reputation. allardyce what not have picked the same squad, things are looking good at the moment for England, are n't we World Champions in one age group and European Champions in a couple of the other age groups?
Probably only because the standard of the opposition was crap though.
I’ll help you here Hound.
Saying England have progressed AND the opposition has been poor is not the same as saying England have progressed BECAUSE the opposition have been poor.
There’s enough rows on here as it is without finding reasons for one that don’t exist.
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Jammy bas**rds
Nice to see Vigo the Carpathian get on the scoresheet though.
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Croatia the latest team to have shat it.
I would be much more confident playing Croatia than I would Russia, if I'm honest, mad as that sounds.
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Wow, I really didn’t expected Russia to score their second. At penalties everything can happen
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Extra time is doing nin of these teams any favours
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Extra time is doing nin of these teams any favours
In one way for sure, in another, if Russia win their team spirit will be through the roof.
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Croatia it is, then.
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Just a thought: I wonder how well we would have performed under Sam Allardyce? Would we have even made the Finals themselves?
Only wondering!
No, what Southgate has done is ditch the old gaurd and picked a squad on form, not reputation. allardyce what not have picked the same squad, things are looking good at the moment for England, are n't we World Champions in one age group and European Champions in a couple of the other age groups?
Probably only because the standard of the opposition was crap though.
I’ll help you here Hound.
Saying England have progressed AND the opposition has been poor is not the same as saying England have progressed BECAUSE the opposition have been poor.
There’s enough rows on here as it is without finding reasons for one that don’t exist.
Who said anything about having a row BST?
I am going to help your remember a couple of your recent posts though.
“There is an unreality about getting this far into a WC against such an awful set of opponents”
and
“it was a competent performance against a Championship standard side”.
Now those two posts do suggest that you think we have only progressed because the opposition has been poor.
Whether you meant it that way or not, it does read that way.
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We have some of the most miserable fans in the world. We're into the Semi Finals of the World Cup. I have just seen an awful performance against the next team we play which to me suggests we have a very good chance of reaching the Final. Cheer up and get behind Gareth and the lads!! :clapping:
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Hound.
You’re reading it wrong.
The “unreality” was a comment on how odd it has been to get this far without playing a real contender. So it’s very difficult to judge just how good or not England are.
And yes. It WAS a competent performance against a side that is full of players that are nowhere near the top rank. What’s to take issue with on that comment? It’s an observation of fact.
I thought those comments were clear enough but I guess you never know on the internet
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We now have to play two good technical sides to win the World Cup if we do then we can forget the other sides we played if we don’t then we did better than a lot thought.
It’s coming home
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Pretty straightforward to me. I can want England to win and be realistic about the quality of England and their opponents at the same time.
Of course you can. Just as long as you do it at least a few years after the event in a retrospective kind of way. ('they were better than them', 'they were good but didn't achieve anything' etc. etc.). Not directly after the event. It's a knock-out tournament full of drama, luck, irrationality, surprises, styles, tactics. Basically the irrational half of the game you have to submit to if you're ever going to enjoy it.
And you clearly aren't being realistic about the quality of England at all. I think there's a distinct chance England are the best team in this competition. I didn't at first but I do now. To say they're only playing the likes of Ipswich or Rotherham so we can't properly judge if they deserve to make the semi- final- really is doing that.
Well said Copps, agree totally.
I find BST’s glum take on England’s achievement almost amusing.
He’s spent so long criticising our under-achievements, it’s almost like he’s begrudging our success and trying to belittle it in case it buggers up his argument!
For heavens sake BST, loosen up and enjoy the ride!
I had no expectations of this England squad and I too have been let down so many times by previous England teams, but I’ve been up and down off my seat all afternoon and I’m absolutely thrilled that we’ve made it to the last 4.
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And we’re doing what Germany are renowned for.... we’re improving as we progress through the tournament......
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The biggest plus at this World Cup, as far as I can see, is the one on the Swiss flag..
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Bit of over analysis going on there Pancho.
It’s amazing how easily people ignore the bits where I say I want England to win, and build up some great thesis out of the bits that they prefer to read.
Bit silly really, but there you go. I don’t understand why we can’t have honest discussion about this instead of it being so confrontational.
Some folk think England have been magnificent against excellent opposition.
Some think it’s impossible to tell how strong we are because we’ve played very weak opposition.
You can discuss that on its merits. Or you can ignore it. Or you can build up daft ideas that there are folk kicking doors and thumping their kids because England won.
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I cannot understand all the negativity on here, what do fans want. I will tell you this that its good that it is Elizabeth 2nd who is on the throne and not Elizabeth 1st because they would have been dragged into the Tower of London and had their heads removed for treason. I remember when we beat Germany in 66 even then some so called fans were even arguing that our 3rd goal was not over the line. Things never alter !
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It is probably fair to say England hasn’t been really tested by the best in the world, yet is in the semi final..
It’s not England’s fault that the qualifying draw and results meant we didn’t see Italy and Holland in Russia, not their fault how the World Cup fixtures were drawn, nor that a team like Spain didn’t make the semi..
Same thing happens every season in the FA Cup too.?
I think France and Belgium have played better than England, and Croatia have some excellent players..
But England are in the semi final on merit.. Colombia played dirty and England held out, and we were better than Sweden..
I remember 1990 vividly.. yes England’s group games weren’t great and Cameroon were tougher to beat than we expected, but I still maintain England could have won that year. Argentina were not great at all despite reaching the final, and but for a penalty shootout we could have played them in the final..
Anything can happen now..
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England are now a team greater than the sum of their parts.
It's amazing this is happening after some people wrote off Southgate saying he was a fa yes man.
I'm glad Croatia had to play extra time and penalties and later game hopefully that could give us an edge during the game.
Whatever happens let's just be proud of them all
It's coming home
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Niteowler
Where’s the negativity? I’ve not seen any but loads of folk are commenting on it. Where is it?
By the way, that third goal in 66. I hate to break it to you but it WASN’T over the line. And that’s not negativity either. It’s just a fact. As is the fact that the officials said it was, which is all that really matters.
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I saw England win the world cup in 1966!
But there was only 16 teams in the competition that year and 10 of those were European teams a couple from south America and North Korea
Good god - I was calming a couple of lads down in local Sainsburys today - and they were singing / chanting etc. I said whoa whoa dont go too early ! Its different for me I said as I have seen England WIN the World Cup so even if Sweden do us (which is unlikely) I at least have the main prize won already
What I did not realise (and I have the Progs etc) was there were so few Teams in it. Never mind we - still won and my other magic memory was that North Korea were the "underdogs" and well supported as well !
Still can only remember Pak doo Ik as a NK Player
Remember watching North Korea beat Italy 4-3 at goodison park
Awesome game and a massive shock!
A bit dodgy that memory of yours Bedale.
NK beat Italy 1-0 at Middlesbrough.
Maybe the game at a Goodison that you are thinking about was the one when NK went 3-0 up inside 25 minutes against Portugal but lost 5-3.
You beat me to it there Hound; I can remember that group in the North-East; USSR, Chile, North Korea, and Italy; it's strange to think that both stadiums, Ayresome Park and Roker Park, are now gone.
I also remember that after the North Korea defeat, and failing to qualify from the group, Italy went home and were pelted with rotten eggs and tomatoes at the airport.
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There’s always a massive amount of luck involved for whoever wins a knock out tournament. It’s very rarely the best side and it’s no indication of who the best side is. I’m just glad we are getting a bit of luck for once. We’ve had plenty go against us over the years.
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Yeah we can all get excited about England being in the SF but let's be realistic. Our group opponents weren't exactly the best in the world (and we only won 2 of them!)
Argentina were the worst team in the knock out stages (at least North Korea tried to play instead of just kicking lumps out of everyone) and we struggled through against 10 men.
So now we are playing Portugal with 1 and a half world class players but no international history or pedigree (they aren't exactly Brazil,Italy,Spain or Hungary are they? Plus they were 3-0 down to North Korea in the last round) and then we have a Final against one of the teams in the tough side of the draw but we'd take the Soviets or West Germany over Brazil/Italy/Spain any day!
Does anyone think any of our players are the best in the world? B Charlton is good but is he better than Pele, Luis Suarez or Mazzola?, No!)The defense hasn't been truly tested Garrincha would have run Wilson ragged (like he did in 62) and Vava/Pele, Bene/Albert, Amancio/Suarez, Mazzola/Rivera are all better front lines than we've faced or have (seriously when are they gonna drop Hunt he can't even score when he's clean through!)
Our Midfield is bang average and everyone's acting like they are better than the Finney and Matthews era, They just aren't (Square pass Stiles can't be a World Champion without the whole tournament becoming a joke).
Lucky draw, Lucky decisions and playing all the games at Wembley. Everyone knows the best team in the World is Brazil and whoever fluke their way to the trophy will have a hollow victory IMO.
I want England to win of course but don't hate me for keeping it real guys
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If top seeds Germany won this World cup, I wonder if their fans would have said they only played against inferior opposition so it wasn't really a good indication of who was the best!
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The winners of the World Cup are therefore the world champions, not necessarily the best team..
Brazil in 1982 being a prime example of the best team not to win.. if so called lesser teams never raised their game nor took advantage of a good draw, it would make for very boring and predictable tournaments.!
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You have gone and spoilt it for me now BST as i thought we had won it 52 years ago fair and square !
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BB
I’ve no idea if they would. And since no-one on this thread had said that about England, I’ve no idea why you’ve raised that question.
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Brazil in 1982 being a prime example of the best team not to win..
Brazil 82 best team never to win the World Cup! They weren't even the best team at that tournament did you not see England's back to back 0-0 draws in the last 12. That's the greatest team never to win the World Cup best 2 games I've ever seen.... although I was 16, ridiculously drunk and listening to "Blue Monday" by New Order on repeat throughout both games. So I might be wrong
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BST. Why do you deem yourself guilty about my comment?
The country is buzzing at the moment regarding our football team and (almost) everyone is enjoying the moment. It seems to me that the majority are looking for reasons to enjoy the ride, whereas a few are looking for reasons not to.
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Watched the game in Glasgow last night. Always a welcoming and great place to go but a weird place to watch an England game.
The locals put England's progress into perspective for me though by explaining that:
1. Some of the world's best teams didn't qualify
2. The world's best teams have all been knocked out
3. Only the crap teams are left.
So there you have it. Two years of intense competition and we're down to the last 4 and they're all rubbish.
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Niteowler
Where’s the negativity? I’ve not seen any but loads of folk are commenting on it. Where is it?
By the way, that third goal in 66. I hate to break it to you but it WASN’T over the line. And that’s not negativity either. It’s just a fact. As is the fact that the officials said it was, which is all that really matters.
4th one was though 😊
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BB
Guilt? That’s the best laugh of the morning.
I’m genuinely bemused about how these ideas get traction. No one. Not one person has said that England have got to the semis only because they have played poor opponents. And yet there’s a pile of people moaning about negativity and then you wading in with your pointless post.
I thought the idea was that we were supposed to be enjoying the ride?
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Watched the game in Glasgow last night. Always a welcoming and great place to go but a weird place to watch an England game.
The locals put England's progress into perspective for me though by explaining that:
1. Some of the world's best teams didn't qualify
2. The world's best teams have all been knocked out
3. Only the crap teams are left.
So there you have it. Two years of intense competition and we're down to the last 4 and they're all rubbish.
Did you try to explain if they were good they would have qualified?
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By world's best teams I think we should read teams with an international history and pedigree that somehow determines them to be the best countries forever. Italy weren't great in qualifying. Germany were shite in the group stages and could very easily have gone out a game sooner had Sweden been more streetwise. The Dutch have been shite for years. Can't really think of any other major powers who didn't make it there at all.
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Watched the game in Glasgow last night. Always a welcoming and great place to go but a weird place to watch an England game.
The locals put England's progress into perspective for me though by explaining that:
1. Some of the world's best teams didn't qualify
2. The world's best teams have all been knocked out
3. Only the crap teams are left.
So there you have it. Two years of intense competition and we're down to the last 4 and they're all rubbish.
That must explain why Scotland never qualify, they are one of the best teams in the World 😳😳😳😳
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Who cares if we are not the best team and that the draw has been kind, we are in the semi finals of the World Cup with a great chance to go further. I’ll take that
I was worried about Southgate thinking he was going to pick a squad full of egos but nothing but admiration for the job he has done so far
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Things are changing regarding the football superpowers. Look at the recent history of those teams. The Netherlands failed to qualify for a 32 team euros (only 50 odd take part). It's a shock but they've failed again so maybe it wasn't a 1 off. Germany have had their worst WC finish ever. Italy have been consistently bad over the last 4 year cycle. Brazil have got to 1 semi in the last 4 WC's (equalling their worst ever run) and that was at home... and they lost by 6.
I think those countries with the facilities and infastructure to create great football players are casting the net wider and less interested in players passports nowadays. The talent in football is stronger than ever but is spread out a lot more than in the past. There is a real possibility that we will have the 2nd WC Final this decade to involve two countries that haven't won it before. (Hopefully not though)
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It really doesn’t matter what anyone (especially the Scottish and Welsh) fans think. We are still in the semi final and they are not, nor are most of the highest ranked clubs on the planet. It is just petty jealously as we strive forward no matter how we get there. Croatia are beatable and then it’s France or Belgium in the final. Even if we lose the next game we still got further than all but a couple of countries on the planet and no-one can take that away from us.
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roversdude, my view exactly.
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Things are changing regarding the football superpowers. Look at the recent history of those teams. The Netherlands failed to qualify for a 32 team euros (only 50 odd take part). It's a shock but they've failed again so maybe it wasn't a 1 off. Germany have had their worst WC finish ever. Italy have been consistently bad over the last 4 year cycle. Brazil have got to 1 semi in the last 4 WC's (equalling their worst ever run) and that was at home... and they lost by 6.
I think those countries with the facilities and infastructure to create great football players are casting the net wider and less interested in players passports nowadays. The talent in football is stronger than ever but is spread out a lot more than in the past. There is a real possibility that we will have the 2nd WC Final this decade to involve two countries that haven't won it before. (Hopefully not though)
Very good points.
I mused on here a week or so back that we seem to be moving out of the era where the top teams can strangle a game by dominating possession. Defences are now organised and patient enough to say “You have the ball. You’ll not hurt us. Then we’ll get it back for a moment and hit you hard.”
Russia did that brilliantly against Spainband Croatia. Sweden played the same sort of game and it almost worked in their match vs Germany. It might have worked against us too if Pickford hadn’t been in form.
Maybe the game is going to be a bit more level between the big countries and the small countries for the next few years until the next dominating tactic is found?
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Watched the game in Glasgow last night. Always a welcoming and great place to go but a weird place to watch an England game.
The locals put England's progress into perspective for me though by explaining that:
1. Some of the world's best teams didn't qualify
2. The world's best teams have all been knocked out
3. Only the crap teams are left.
So there you have it. Two years of intense competition and we're down to the last 4 and they're all rubbish.
Did you try to explain if they were good they would have qualified?
Keeping my mouth shut and my thoughts to myself seemed prudent. So smiling and nodding and not rising to the bait just got me called a 'smug English bas**rd'. At least they got that bit right.
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Hopefully, the next dominating tactic has already been found. A calm, stress free team that enjoys the game like Southgate has instilled in this team. LOL
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I was very worried about Southgate when he started talking about copying Spain. A strategy that that has increasingly been found out and countered against.
However, he seems to realise most of England's major tournament goals come from set pieces and pens, has then just worked on them relentlessly and it's causing massive problems.
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That’s the thing.
We’ve dominated possession against the sides we’ve played and, while not making many chances, have looked by a million miles the most dangerous side in the competition from set pieces.
So we haven’t had the problems that Spain and Getmany had, of dominating possession without looking dangerous.
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Interesting thing will be against Croatia. They’ll be better than us at holding possession. So what is our Plan B?
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I saw England win the world cup in 1966!
But there was only 16 teams in the competition that year and 10 of those were European teams a couple from south America and North Korea
Good god - I was calming a couple of lads down in local Sainsburys today - and they were singing / chanting etc. I said whoa whoa dont go too early ! Its different for me I said as I have seen England WIN the World Cup so even if Sweden do us (which is unlikely) I at least have the main prize won already
What I did not realise (and I have the Progs etc) was there were so few Teams in it. Never mind we - still won and my other magic memory was that North Korea were the "underdogs" and well supported as well !
Still can only remember Pak doo Ik as a NK Player
Remember watching North Korea beat Italy 4-3 at goodison park
Awesome game and a massive shock!
A bit dodgy that memory of yours Bedale.
NK beat Italy 1-0 at Middlesbrough.
Maybe the game at a Goodison that you are thinking about was the one when NK went 3-0 up inside 25 minutes against Portugal but lost 5-3.
It was 52 years ago!
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This thread is the only place in the entire country I've seen misery relating to England's success. We aren't in the semi finals on luck, we're there on merit and have been a very dangerous side throughout these finals.
If any tournament has proven that you can't just label teams as good/bad based on reputation, it's this one. South Korea beat Germany. So did Mexico. Croatia stuffed Argentina. Costa Rica nearly got a draw against Brazil. Morocco held Spain at the same time Iran drew with Portugal. Japan nearly knocked out Belgium.
It's a nonsense. England have done superbly well. Grinding out a win against a very stubborn Tunisia. Blowing Panama away, better than any other team has done to an opponent in the tournament. Seeing off a violent, horrid but talented team in Colombia and now controlling a Quarter Final and seeing off a previously formidable Sweden team. The only better team Belgium had to beat to get here was Brazil, is anyone saying they've been lucky? Croatia drew with Denmark and Russia in the knockouts, were they lucky?
Just enjoy it. We don't get to see England doing this well very often at all.
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I can’t thinking of those players who will not feature in both games as it’s Looking like the team is selecting its self .
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Aaaannddd...here comes another one.
Could you point out these negative, miserable posts?
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Questions to be answered.
1) Have this England team played to their full potential yet in this competition?
2) Have Croatia?
Two good sides, England have yet to play a team that actually set out to win the game from the start, and not try to hit us on the break.
Croatia technically good, don't exactly play expansively, have great players who fit their system.
I think England have it in them to up their game, but it is all on the day, one mistake could cost either team the game,but I think England could shade it.
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Aaaannddd...here comes another one.
Could you point out these negative, miserable posts?
Gladly BST.
- You referred to Sweden as "Championship standard". That's not true or fair on them.
- You called our performance yesterday "competent". Also does a disservice to how well our side played, and you said these last two comments in direct response to another poster praising the performance.
- You called our draw and path "lucky".
- You labelled this squad inferior to both our 1980s WC squads when we have surpassed them both in achievement, regardless of how good the individuals are on grass or paper.
- On the previous page you bring up our 3rd goal in 1966 not crossing the line, even though you weren't alive at the time.
- You called the opponents we've beaten to date "very ordinary".
You just come across with this air of patronisation sometimes, and certainly in this thread you've made a few comments that have been "Yeah, but..." to put a dampener on things. Maybe you don't even know you're doing it, but several people before me pointed it out so perhaps there's something to it. In fact over the last few pages a few people have made comments about negativity not specifically naming you and you've jumped to your own defence every time regardless.
You're not the only one and I've no doubt you want England to win, but the approach you seem to have towards it all is not one of optimism and positivity in my book, at a time when the majority of the country are being very optimistic and positive for a change.
I like what Rigo has suggested picking out the best bits of this tournament so I'm going to try and balance this post out by responding to that in a sec.
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Goal of the tournament: I agree it's Pavard's wonderful strike against Argentina for France. Just edges out Nacho v Portugal.
Player of the tournament: I'd say Hazard, Lukaku, Kane and Mbappe are all in the mix. Seldom does it go to a defensive player but a shout-out to Umtiti too, he's been imperious at the back for France. Oh, Modric too.
Best Team Performance: Belgium v Brazil, magnificent they were.
Best Individual Performance: Ronaldo v Spain, no question.
Best Game: France v Argentina ahead of Spain v Portugal and Belgium v Brazil.
Most Overrated Team: Germany, it has to be. Many including myself had them down as winners but they were awful.
Most Underrated Team: Dare I say England? They've looked far better than anyone expected and have performed well in nearly every game.
Biggest Flop: Germany just edging out Argentina, who at least made the 2nd Round.
Worst Manager: Jorge Sampaoli by a country mile.
Best Manager: Either Gareth Southgate or Roberto Martinez. I think this one can only be judged after the Final.
Biggest Revelation: This is a tough one. Cheryshev for Russia perhaps. Or Kieran Trippier.
Worst Tactical Decision: Take your pick of Argentina's woes. Where were Higuain, Dybala and Aguero when needed most? On the bench, inexplicably.
Unluckiest Team: Mexico. They looked wonderful for two group games, got lost against Sweden and it cost them a winnable 2nd Round tie. Honourable mention to Morocco, beaten by a last minute own goal to Iran then valiant in defeat to Portugal before nearly beating Spain. Fine margins.
Biggest Shock: Croatia battering Argentina tied with Germany getting dumped out by South Korea.
Winners: Too close to call now. I hope England. I'll be happy for Martinez if it's Belgium. Croatia would be a huge shock overall and France are the only one of the favourites still standing. They're growing in stature with every game, but it's hard to argue Belgium and England aren't doing the same.
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RA
Every single one of those comments is defendable and, I’d suggest, accurate. I take them as sensibly realistic. There’s nothing negative or miserable about them, unless your confidence is so paper thin that you take umbridge at anything less than hyperbole.
Just one think you mis-read. I didn’t say this squad was inferior to anyone. I said that the others had all gone toe-to-toe with the very best in their tournaments and more or less matched them. This current squad hasn’t had a chance to do so, so it’s impossible to make that sort of comparison. Hopefully they will put that one to bed on Weds.
As for 1966. Come on! EVERYONE knows that ball didn’t go over the line. We got lucky on that occasion, just as we struck unlucky in 1986, when we could well have won the competition but for Maradona’s handball. It happens. You take your chance when you get the breaks and you take it on the chin when you don’t.
Now. If you look a little further back in this thread, you’ll see me saying how proud of English football I was on Tuesday night. And how I felt this side was starting to look like they could win the tournament. And how I’ve been on the edge of my seat like most other England football fans.
Or, you can build up some thesis on misinterpretations.
Your call.
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Southgate came out after the Panama game and said we didn’t play that well, which we didn’t. Was he being negative or just highlighting that improvements can be made?
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RA
Every single one of those comments is defendable and, I’d suggest, accurate. I take them as sensibly realistic. There’s nothing negative or miserable about them, unless your confidence is so paper thin that you take umbridge at anything less than hyperbole.
Just one think you mis-read. I didn’t say this squad was inferior to anyone. I said that the others had all gone toe-to-toe with the very best in their tournaments and more or less matched them. This current squad hasn’t had a chance to do so, so it’s impossible to make that sort of comparison. Hopefully they will put that one to bed on Weds.
As for 1966. Come on! EVERYONE knows that ball didn’t go over the line. We got lucky on that occasion, just as we struck unlucky in 1986, when we could well have won the competition but for Maradona’s handball. It happens. You take your chance when you get the breaks and you take it on the chin when you don’t.
Now. If you look a little further back in this thread, you’ll see me saying how proud of English football I was on Tuesday night. And how I felt this side was starting to look like they could win the tournament. And how I’ve been on the edge of my seat like most other England football fans.
Or, you can build up some thesis on misinterpretations.
Your call.
Tofiq Bahramov thought it was a goal
http://www.goal.com/en/news/11522/baku-2015/2015/01/29/8338942/tofiq-bahramov-the-story-of-footballs-most-famous-linesman
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Well, Ali bin Nasser though Maradona has got his head to the ball in 86. Officials get it wrong.
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Southgate came out after the Panama game and said we didn’t play that well, which we didn’t. Was he being negative or just highlighting that improvements can be made?
I missed that. Eeh, the patronising, unpatriotic negative misery guts.
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Southgate came out after the Panama game and said we didn’t play that well, which we didn’t. Was he being negative or just highlighting that improvements can be made?
I missed that. Eeh, the patronising, unpatriotic negative misery guts.
If people in life never saw what could be improved upon we would all still live in caves.
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Billy, I was stood behind that goal in 66, with Andy Lochhead and Ray Pointer and a mate. None of us had any idea whether it crossed the line or not, but Roger Hunt, who was the nearest player with the best view immediately threw his hands above his head and turned away.
He could have just nodded it in, and is the reason I have always thought it was a goal, he had the best view in the house.
We paid £50 each for two tickets off a tout, face value was £3 19s 6d I think.
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ySUM0ZERdA4
Hunt turned away because the ball was nowhere near him.
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Interesting thing will be against Croatia. They’ll be better than us at holding possession. So what is our Plan B?
Will they?
Here's Croatia's possession stats the last five (half) decent opponents they've faced.
vs. Greece (Away leg: 36% Home: 59%)
vs. Mexico (36%)
vs. Brazil (38%)
vs. Argentina (43%)
vs. Denmark (54%)
(I'm excluding teams like Iceland, Russia, Senegal here)
But it doesn't strike me from that they are a particularly possession-based side. To be honest, I know very little about how they play. I do generally think on the other hand that England are regarded as a possession-based side, and that's often been our downfall in the past.
This tournament I'm seeing something different from England. A new kind of patience, I would almost describe it as calm with the ball. Pundits screaming get in the box but clearly they're under instruction to keep possession and build a different way.
Plan B for England will be plan A. More of the above for sure.
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While our draw was favourable and we haven't faced the "fancied" nations in the knockout yet, there's plenty to suggest this England run is not just down to a bit of luck and an "easy" draw.
Plenty of the other supposed favourites have come unstuck, or looked unconvincing so far. Brazil, Spain and Germany are out, France looked unconvincing especially early on, Argentina have been terrible. You can say we've beaten poor sides but some of the better sides haven't always been up against brilliant opposition and have looked ordinary at best a lot of the time.
Also, think back to previous campaigns where England have faced so-called lesser opposition and still come unstuck. Scraped through and looked poor against USA, Slovenia and Algeria in 2010 (arguably an easier group than this year), failed to beat Russia, Slovakia and Iceland at the Euros, failed to even win one group game in 2014.
We've nullified Colombia and probably should've seen out a win in normal time, and that was against a side a lot of people consider as dark horses. They're not considered in the top tier of international sides but aren't far off.
There's plenty going for this England side. It's easy to take it for granted because of the opposition they've faced, but I don't think this would've happened under Hodgson or Capello for example. We're playing better football and look more tactically adept than under previous managers, and there's a feeling of togetherness and positivity for once.
From what I've seen of Croatia, there's a fairly decent chance of England getting to the final. Croatia have got some very good players, and playing England might suit them more than Russia/Denmark, but I still think we've got the players to cause them problems too so it should be a good game.
Either way, I'd find it hard to knock or criticise England in this World Cup so far, even if we get knocked out by Croatia. It's very rare that an England side isn't already home by this point, so we might as well enjoy it and then pick the bones out after.
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I was curious about this "easy draw" conspiracy. Since 1998, when it became a 32 team tournament, the winners run has been;
France 1998 - South Africa, Saudi Arabia, Denmark, Paraguay, Italy, Croatia, Brazil.
Brazil 2002 - Turkey, China, Costa Rica, Belgium, England, Turkey, Germany.
Italy 2006 - Ghana, USA, Czech Republic, Australia, Ukraine, Germany, France.
Spain 2010 - Switzerland, Honduras, Chile, Portugal, Paraguay, Germany, Germany, Netherlands.
Germany 2014 - Portugal, Ghana, USA, Algeria, France, Brazil, Argentina.
2018:
England - Tunisia, Panama, Belgium, Colombia, Sweden, Croatia, FRA/BEL.
Croatia - Nigeria, Argentina, Iceland, Denmark, Russia, England, FRA/BEL.
France - Australia, Peru, Denmark, Argentina, Uruguay, Belgium, ENG/CRO.
Belgium - Panama, Tunisia, England, Japan, Brazil, France, ENG/CRO.
The draws are quite fairly spread, it's not like teams regularly go Uruguay, England, France, Spain, Argentina, Brazil, Germany. In fact the most difficult run of any world cup based on name alone would be England in 66 (Uruguay, Mexico, France, Argentina, Portugal, Germany). No need for negativity here.
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Swinton.
There’s another way of looking at it.
Over the past 40 years England have got past the Round 1 groups in 82, 86, 90, 98, 02, 06 and 10.
We’ve played 13 post-R1 matches before this tournament.
3 vs Germany
2 vs Argentina
1 vs Paraguay
1 vs Ecuador
1 vs Brazil
1 vs Belgium
1 vs Denmark
1 vs Cameroon
1 vs Spain
1 vs Portugal
By that record, this has been a relatively easy draw. There’s no arguing that. By the examples you give, we’ve had a slightly easier run that average to this stage but not ridiculously so.
In a nutshell, we’ve tended to hit one of the top contenders in R2 or QF. Most winners don’t. We haven’t this time. I guess it balanced out over a very long period.
That’s kind of what I was saying two weeks ago, when I said it made sense to try to get an easy draw. Because few nations win the World Cup after beating a string of top contenders. Chances are you get unlucky on one day if you face a string of good opponents. Interestingly, a lot of the same folk were having a pop then, saying we should be confident in taking on anyone. But as your info shows. Few sides win the WC the hard way. We’ve had a stroke of luck this time which we haven’t really had since 90. Let’s hope we can capitalise.
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Billy, I was stood behind that goal in 66, with Andy Lochhead and Ray Pointer and a mate. None of us had any idea whether it crossed the line or not, but Roger Hunt, who was the nearest player with the best view immediately threw his hands above his head and turned away.
He could have just nodded it in, and is the reason I have always thought it was a goal, he had the best view in the house.
We paid £50 each for two tickets off a tout, face value was £3 19s 6d I think.
WOW Selby ...Ray Pointer! Along with Willie Nimmo he was my hero as a kid.
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Of course it was in!
https://youtu.be/HKFyUqvsPuM
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Just spent a bit of time reflecting on Germany's world cup win in 2014.
Before they reached the semi-final and roundly smashed Brazil they scored 10 goals, only 5 of which from open play;
1 penalty
2 corners
2 from freekicks
5 open play
They were also in some extremely close games; Drew with Ghana, got taken to extra time by Algeria and had narrow victories over USA and France. Got me reflecting on England this time round. Certainly suggests having a reliance on set-pieces isn't a problem. And also suggests narrow victories are to be expected and if you ride them great. Germany's style of play was also very laconic and, as we know, clinical. Probably get shot down but I can see glimpses of that in England this year.
Only thing left is a truly memorable performance? Can we do that. I think if Sterling can bang in a few of these chances he's creating then we certainly can.
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A couple of years ago in the FA cup Arsenal played nobody of note up to the semi final, Lincoln City, non league and lower league all the way.
Then they drew Man City in the semi final, and Chelsea in the final, played very well in both games and won the cup,when given very little chance by the so called experts in those games.
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Copps.
Let’s compare like with like.
Last few England matches against decent opponents. England possession stats.
Colombia 52%
Netherlands 52%
Italy 48%
Germany 45%
Brazil 34%
We had 59% possession vs Nigeria at Wembley last month. Croatia had 55% against them in the Group stages.
All the figures suggest that England and Croatia are reasonably similar in their ability to hold possession. I probably over played it in saying that Croatia will dominate possession (although they might if Modric and Rakitic are on form, which they weren’t, so much last night). The point still stands though. It’s unlike that England will get the 58-62% possession figures that we had against Tunisia, Panama and Sweden. So it’s likely that we’ll need some tactical flexibility, because we’re likely to have at least some extended periods without the ball. And we’re going to face a side that can get in behind and hurt you.
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England's 66 team were the first to beat a former winner on their way to the trophy*. Since then in all but 2 tournaments the winners have beaten at least 1 former winner.
If England beat Belgium in the Final they will be the 1st winners to not face a former winner since West Germany (in 74) and the 1st not to beat a former winner since Argentina (in 78) - they lost to Italy and drew with Brazil in their victorious campaign. 12
*From 1970-1998 England didn't beat 1 former winner in 7 attempts.
They beat Argentina in 2002 and currently stand at 1 win from 12 since 66.
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Just spent a bit of time reflecting on Germany's world cup win in 2014.
Before they reached the semi-final and roundly smashed Brazil they scored 10 goals, only 5 of which from open play;
1 penalty
2 corners
2 from freekicks
5 open play
They were also in some extremely close games; Drew with Ghana, got taken to extra time by Algeria and had narrow victories over USA and France. Got me reflecting on England this time round. Certainly suggests having a reliance on set-pieces isn't a problem. And also suggests narrow victories are to be expected and if you ride them great. Germany's style of play was also very laconic and, as we know, clinical. Probably get shot down but I can see glimpses of that in England this year.
Only thing left is a truly memorable performance? Can we do that. I think if Sterling can bang in a few of these chances he's creating then we certainly can.
I’ve been thinking very much the same thing. We have reminded me very much of Germany. I said on Tuesday night that Kane was looking more and more like Klinsmann. Reliable. Cool. Rarely giving less than you expect. Nothing flashy, but rock solid.
And the same can be said of the whole side. We’ve straightforwardly put a set of limited opponents to the sword in the way that you usually expect Germany to do. The “competent” description that got so many folks’ blood pressure up was actually a compliment. The usual Germany wouldn’t need or expect a “magnificent” performance to finish off a limited side like Sweden. They would competently dominate them and flick them aside. And they certainly wouldn’t call a performance like that “magnificent.” For them, it would be straightforward business as usual.
That’s what we looked like yesterday. Whether we have the extra gear I still don’t know and no-one knows because we’ve not been asked to look for it. We’ll find out next week.
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Of course it was in!
https://youtu.be/HKFyUqvsPuM
They froze that before the ball hit the ground therefore making it seem over, it wasn't. But so good to still have this doubt after all these years.
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Of course it was in!
https://youtu.be/HKFyUqvsPuM
They froze that before the ball hit the ground therefore making it seem over, it wasn't. But so good to still have this doubt after all these years.
I'd gathered that, just put it on as a light hearted response. Mind you there were suspicions that the other video on this thread had been tampered with also.
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3384366/Geoff-Hurst-s-goal-against-West-Germany-DID-cross-line-Sky-Sports-finally-prove-linesman-right-award-controversial-strike-1966-World-Cup-final.html
I know it’s the daily mail but Sky sports did an analysis of the 66 final. And computer generated technology proved it crossed the line
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3384366/Geoff-Hurst-s-goal-against-West-Germany-DID-cross-line-Sky-Sports-finally-prove-linesman-right-award-controversial-strike-1966-World-Cup-final.html
I know it’s the daily mail but Sky sports did an analysis of the 66 final. And computer generated technology proved it crossed the line
That's it then. If the Daily Mail says it crossed the line it definitely didn't.
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And here (hopefully) endeth the lesson that statistics are a load of old cobblers. 100%.
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3384366/Geoff-Hurst-s-goal-against-West-Germany-DID-cross-line-Sky-Sports-finally-prove-linesman-right-award-controversial-strike-1966-World-Cup-final.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3384366/Geoff-Hurst-s-goal-against-West-Germany-DID-cross-line-Sky-Sports-finally-prove-linesman-right-award-controversial-strike-1966-World-Cup-final.html)
I know it’s the daily mail but Sky sports did an analysis of the 66 final. And computer generated technology proved it crossed the line
That's it then. If the Daily Mail says it crossed the line it definitely didn't.
Correct - I dont think and never did think that the Ball crossed the Line.
Lampards disallowed CLEARLY over the Line goal was disappointing when not allowed but we got the best of the deal when comparing the 2 of them !
On the bright side "they" finally got their a***s in gear and approved GLT which (subject to the level your Team plays) should prevent similar travesties in the future
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Billy, I was stood behind that goal in 66, with Andy Lochhead and Ray Pointer and a mate. None of us had any idea whether it crossed the line or not, but Roger Hunt, who was the nearest player with the best view immediately threw his hands above his head and turned away.
He could have just nodded it in, and is the reason I have always thought it was a goal, he had the best view in the house.
We paid £50 each for two tickets off a tout, face value was £3 19s 6d I think.
This story deserves a thread of its own Selby!
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Well, Ali bin Nasser though Maradona has got his head to the ball in 86. Officials get it wrong.
But I thought we were talking about 1966?
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3384366/Geoff-Hurst-s-goal-against-West-Germany-DID-cross-line-Sky-Sports-finally-prove-linesman-right-award-controversial-strike-1966-World-Cup-final.html
I know it’s the daily mail but Sky sports did an analysis of the 66 final. And computer generated technology proved it crossed the line
The vid of the actual footage on that page shows clearly it didn't cross the line.
The only question is whether the bottom of the ball was over the line or not - so close. When you apply the rule of the whole ball needing to cross the line, it didn't. But then that rule of the whole ball is supposed to apply for the whole of the goal line (corner to corner), and the touchline, but it's hardly ever applied to those by the refs and lino's, just the bottom of the ball being over or not.
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So what if it was a bad decision and the ball didn't cross the line? Football's full of bad decisions. Why single that one out? I remember at the time the injustice of W Germany getting a dubious free kick that led to their last minute equaliser. I've tried to find the incident but footage seems to only show you the free kick for some reason.
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I think by 'bests' teams most people think about teams with a name associated with a history - history by definition means the past. Argentina, Brazil, Spain, Germany, yadda yadda yadda have all been one of the best at some point in history. In a few years time the record books will say that in the 2018 Fifa World Cup the four best teams at that moment in history were France, Belgium, England and Croatia regardless of how they got to the semis - at the end of the day - all the 'best/biggest' teams (bar France) have been beaten by one of the last four or someone in the last four who knocked out one of the best earlier, or one of the last four knocked out someone who knocked out one of the best before that! If you catch my drift. Doesn't really matter if your name ends up on the trophy. Lol
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So what if it was a bad decision and the ball didn't cross the line? Football's full of bad decisions. Why single that one out? I remember at the time the injustice of W Germany getting a dubious free kick that led to their last minute equaliser. I've tried to find the incident but footage seems to only show you the free kick for some reason.
It singles itself out. A free kick controversy is far less "stand out", a pen controversy stands out more. A winning goal or not in the final of the world cup is a stand out as it gets, and as everyone knows, the 4th wouldn't have happened without the 3rd.
The Azerbaijani lino gave it because he saw the net move, therefore thought it hit the inside of the net and bounced out, so not the crossbar. He couldn't see where it bounced on the floor, and didn't think that was relevant as it was already a goal by then.
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Look at Jack Charlton's frustration when the kick was given especially as ref's were far more lenient then.
Last week a goalie pinched ten yards at a free kick, ten yards further back where it should have been and there probably wouldn't have been a goal.
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So what if it was a bad decision and the ball didn't cross the line? Football's full of bad decisions. Why single that one out? I remember at the time the injustice of W Germany getting a dubious free kick that led to their last minute equaliser. I've tried to find the incident but footage seems to only show you the free kick for some reason.
It singles itself out. A free kick controversy is far less "stand out", a pen controversy stands out more. A winning goal or not in the final of the world cup is a stand out as it gets, and as everyone knows, the 4th wouldn't have happened without the 3rd.
The Azerbaijani lino gave it because he saw the net move, therefore thought it hit the inside of the net and bounced out, so not the crossbar. He couldn't see where it bounced on the floor, and didn't think that was relevant as it was already a goal by then.
I thought he gave it because he remembered Stalingrad. 😉
Incidentally the national stadium in Baku is named after him. He ended up as President of the Azeri FA.
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Strangled the life out of Belgium which they did against Uruguay expertly. I thought Umtiti and Varane were brilliant tonight, the whole team were as a unit.
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Thought France were well organised, had an out ball to Mbappe but Belgium had a couple of clear opportunities to score The ball from DeBruyne that Lukaku made no effort to get on the end of was their best chance IF England get there they are in with a shout but I bet McGuire will be having nitemares now about Mbappe playing wide right JMHO
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If we get through I bet France will be having nightmares about what McGuire might do to them at corners.
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Dejan Lovren will probably cock it up for them.
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France were superb tonight.
They combined defensively water-tight organisation with moments of genius.
That’s the sort of side that you long to see as a partisan fan. They snuffed out the world’s best front 3, and had enough to hit them.
If England beat that side in the Final, there will never be any questions about their right to be called genuine champions.
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If we get through I bet France will be having nightmares about what McGuire might do to them at corners.
I'm convinced tomorrow night that England will get at least one 'free header' opportunity at a set-piece (probably a corner).
If Croatia don't go with man to man marking at set-pieces, they'll get exposed and it could cost them a place in the final. In midfield, I think they're better - just not defensively.
With Croatia it all depends what shape they deploy and if they play on the front foot or allow us to have the ball and play on the break. If they have their two main men in midfield sitting we will beat them. If they are more progressive and have at least one of them linking things up to Mario M up top, things could be different.
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Some of mbappes tactics very dubious.little bit of South American play there. :thumbdown:
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I wouldn’t be surprised to see Croatia playing it cagey and trying to hold us. I think it would be a mistake for them, but I could well see them doing it.
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I wouldn’t be surprised to see Croatia playing it cagey and trying to hold us. I think it would be a mistake for them, but I could well see them doing it.
I agree. That will negate their strongest players I think. Modric will always affect a game, wherever he plays, but it’s to what extent. As good as he is Mandzukic hasn’t got the pace to trouble teams if he is left too isolated.
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I’ve got a feeling Lingard will score the winner. He’s scored some very big goals in his career. If it’s not tomorrow he must be saving it for the winner in the final.
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Well, that's France through to the final.
Don't know about anyone else but I thought they were very, very average tonight. Mbappe aside who is like a young Michael Owen before injuries destroyed his career, they didn't really impress me and beat Belgium by containing them, rather than showing any flair.
Thought Belgium were quite unlucky.
Can’t agree with Belgium being unlucky. They threatened very little and when they did, France defended very well. Pogba seems to be growing as the tournament progresses and Mbappe’s pce is always a threat. If Giroud could get anywhere near the target they could even have had a couple more goals.
Whoever wins tomorrow night is going to be up against it in the final if France play like that.
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Well, that's France through to the final.
Don't know about anyone else but I thought they were very, very average tonight. Mbappe aside who is like a young Michael Owen before injuries destroyed his career, they didn't really impress me and beat Belgium by containing them, rather than showing any flair.
Thought Belgium were quite unlucky.
Can’t agree with Belgium being unlucky. They threatened very little and when they did, France defended very well. Pogba seems to be growing as the tournament progresses and Mbappe’s pce is always a threat. If Giroud could get anywhere near the target they could even have had a couple more goals.
Whoever wins tomorrow night is going to be up against it in the final if France play like that.
Agreed
France weren't far off the perfect side tonight.
To be able to neutralise an attack as potent as Belgium's and still have the best striker on the pitch is pretty much the ideal of football.
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I’ve got a feeling Lingard will score the winner. He’s scored some very big goals in his career. If it’s not tomorrow he must be saving it for the winner in the final.
Can see your thinking there. He seems like a player with a great temperament for these sorts of games. I was reading a BBC feature earlier on whether or not Sterling has been any good due to the divide in opinion on his displays, but I noticed in a lot of the statistical areas they were showing Sterling had done well, Lingard was still better. He has been very good and the more I see of him, the more I like him.
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Shame about Mbappe's theatrics though. Has so much in his locker he doesn't need to be fannying around like that. Whoever marks him in the final should hit him hard and early on, let him know he's in a game.
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RA.
Sterling has been one of England's best players. He's been excellent at making runs beyond the line and pulling defenders out of position. The stick he's got kind of demonstrates what some occasional watchers of football are like - they see the ball hitting the back of the net and nowt else.
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RA.
Sterling has been one of England's best players. He's been excellent at making runs beyond the line and pulling defenders out of position. The stick he's got kind of demonstrates what some occasional watchers of football are like - they see the ball hitting the back of the net and nowt else.
Yes, I think he's done better than most are saying. He was excellent against Sweden aside from his final ball/finish which let him down a few times. The way he took down Henderson's long high pass in front of goal before trying to round the keeper was top class yet no one talked about it afterwards, only the fact he failed to finish or find a square pass for Kane to finish.
Lingard has been better overall but then he's easily in the top 3 performers for England as far as I'm concerned, along with Trippier and Maguire. To be honest the whole side has performed above and beyond what most of us expected them to.
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I'd be tempted to draft RLC in for tonight's game because I'm worried about how much support Henderson will get from them in front of him against Rakitic and Modric. But put RLC in the team I think we could bully them in midfield and I don't think they would be able to handle his power he could just run over the top of them.
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I'd be tempted to draft RLC in for tonight's game because I'm worried about how much support Henderson will get from them in front of him against Rakitic and Modric. But put RLC in the team I think we could bully them in midfield and I don't think they would be able to handle his power he could just run over the top of them.
Not a bad shout that, although Alli's 2nd half performance against the Swedes has been his best in the tournament do far and who else would you take out to replace him?
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I'd be tempted to draft RLC in for tonight's game because I'm worried about how much support Henderson will get from them in front of him against Rakitic and Modric. But put RLC in the team I think we could bully them in midfield and I don't think they would be able to handle his power he could just run over the top of them.
Not a bad shout that, although Alli's 2nd half performance against the Swedes has been his best in the tournament do far and who else would you take out to replace him?
I'd take Sterling out and move Dele or Jesse into his role. With Henderson not 100% fit think he will need that extra help.
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I'd be tempted to draft RLC in for tonight's game because I'm worried about how much support Henderson will get from them in front of him against Rakitic and Modric. But put RLC in the team I think we could bully them in midfield and I don't think they would be able to handle his power he could just run over the top of them.
Not a bad shout that, although Alli's 2nd half performance against the Swedes has been his best in the tournament do far and who else would you take out to replace him?
I'd take Sterling out and move Dele or Jesse into his role. With Henderson not 100% fit think he will need that extra help.
Would be madness to drop Sterling.
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I'd be tempted to draft RLC in for tonight's game because I'm worried about how much support Henderson will get from them in front of him against Rakitic and Modric. But put RLC in the team I think we could bully them in midfield and I don't think they would be able to handle his power he could just run over the top of them.
Not a bad shout that, although Alli's 2nd half performance against the Swedes has been his best in the tournament do far and who else would you take out to replace him?
I'd take Sterling out and move Dele or Jesse into his role. With Henderson not 100% fit think he will need that extra help.
Would be madness to drop Sterling.
Absolutely, would be mad. If anything I'd consider dropping Alli for RLC so we have someone who can carry the ball in the midfield. I'd stick with the same team though.
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Please, if we are one in front with ten minutes to go, don’t tempt fate by writing, we can win this, not long now, hope Croatia don’t score now, etc etc.
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I've never been this nervous about a semi since I watched Brokeback mountain.
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Please, if we are one in front with ten minutes to go, don’t tempt fate by writing, we can win this, not long now, hope Croatia don’t score now, etc etc.
We can win this.
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Watching in a bar in Germany
There was a cheer when we scored
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This referee is shite.
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Bigger cheer when they scored !!
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This is so much like watching Rovers. So much on top but can't score then get punished for not finishing a team off when we had the chance.
I just hope we can hold out and beat them on penalties cos I can't see us beating them any other way now.
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I'd be tempted to draft RLC in for tonight's game because I'm worried about how much support Henderson will get from them in front of him against Rakitic and Modric. But put RLC in the team I think we could bully them in midfield and I don't think they would be able to handle his power he could just run over the top of them.
Not a bad shout that, although Alli's 2nd half performance against the Swedes has been his best in the tournament do far and who else would you take out to replace him?
I'd take Sterling out and move Dele or Jesse into his role. With Henderson not 100% fit think he will need that extra help.
Would be madness to drop Sterling.
Sterling did a grand job.
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Ali off loftus-cheek on for me should have happened before they scored we need some control in midfield
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Not impressed with Alli, we need a bit more control going forward..
A proper game of two halves so far..
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DVR you beat me to it..
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Mandzukic :headbang:
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It had been coming for a while
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Been 2nd best from 2nd half sorry to say ref being conned but should have took our chances
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From minute 46 they bossed midfield.
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Normal service has been restored.
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1 shot on goal says it all
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Normal service has been restored.
Nothing normal about England getting to the semi final.
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Normal service has been restored.
Nothing normal about England getting to the semi final.
I don't think we're back to the England team of old at all. They were really going for it in a way we haven't seen for a long time
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Should have been 3-0 up at half time and feared the worst at 1-0! Bugger, I let myself start to believe - it’s the hope that kills you!!
:sick:
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Normal service has been restored.
Nothing normal about England getting to the semi final.
I don't think we're back to the England team of old at all. They were really going for it in a way we haven't seen for a long time
We are lacking quality. For me we need to ditch Sterling and Ali.
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Yup !!
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England were poor second half, but better in extra time. We should be proud of them. Wonderful tournament. For me, the ref was shambolic. Thought he was going to be strict after the first five minutes but he gave very little and missed a great deal. Lovren could have been off twice over. That said we should have been home and dry by half time.
Still... something to build on. A relatively youngish team. And Southgate a revelation.
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Sad...I was an England fan at this World Cup
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Ali was a bit anonymous but Sterling put a shift in.
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Not enough attacking intent, from the second half onwards, never troubled their keeper after half time, the writing was on the wall after the equaliser, Henderson went awol at HT
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A well deserved defeat. Croatia were by far the better team.
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Kane should have been subbed at the end of normal time
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Not enough attacking intent, from the second half onwards, never troubled their keeper after half time, the writing was on the wall after the equaliser, Henderson went awol at HT
Henderson went awol because he was by himself in the middle of the park getting stretched all over.
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Fair result, no complaints from me..
It seems we were just missing one link in our attacking play - not sure who that should be..?
Disappointed with Alli, at the moment he’s not “that” player to give us that extra spark.. I also don’t get the criticism of Sterling, his pace and touch is frightening..
We need someone like Bale or De Bruyne..
Who would that be?
However, reaching the semi final is a great achievement and more than the Germans, Spanish, Argentinians and Brazilians achieved, never mind the Dutch or Italians..
The other bonus is many of the England players are young enough to go again next time..
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1 shot on goal says it all
One shot, were you watching the game?
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1 shot on goal says it all
One shot, were you watching the game?
Yes I watched it and those figures came on the screen. Maybe it was the second half. But it did show Croatia's 7 shots to our 1
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Fair result, no complaints from me..
It seems we were just missing one link in our attacking play - not sure who that should be..?
Disappointed with Alli, at the moment he’s not “that” player to give us that extra spark.. I also don’t get the criticism of Sterling, his pace and touch is frightening..
We need someone like Bale or De Bruyne..
Who would that be?
However, reaching the semi final is a great achievement and more than the Germans, Spanish, Argentinians and Brazilians achieved, never mind the Dutch or Italians..
The other bonus is many of the England players are young enough to go again next time..
Agree with Alli, never done it in an England shirt for me and playing on club form. I was pleased when he was dropped before the World Cup but obviously he got his reprieve.
When you say we need a Bale or a De Bruyne - which do you mean? Two very different players. For me we need a creative influence in midfield, that’s what’s really lacking at the moment.
All in all though we did what very few thought we would and made the semi finals, we should be given credit for that. Most of the team are young and will be back for 1 if not 2 more world cups so hopefully we can come back stronger, although I doubt we’ll ever get a more favourable draw.
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So apart from the one we scored with, what about the two from Kane that the keeper saved.
I assume you just mean shots on target.
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Ali was a bit anonymous but Sterling put a shift in.
Sterling would have had a tap in if Kane had squared the ball to him instead of trying to slot that chance home just before half time.
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So apart from the one we scored with, what about the two from Kane that the keeper saved.
I assume you just mean shots on target.
Like I said, I just saw it come up on the screen. It could have been shots on target but to be honest I was bored by that point as I knew the game was lost.
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Nick I mean either, someone who can conjour chances out of nothing, and score them too..
Who is going to step up for England in that kind of role over the next 4 years..?
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Ali was a bit anonymous but Sterling put a shift in.
Sterling would have had a tap in if Kane had squared the ball to him instead of trying to slot that chance home just before half time.
More likely he would have f**ked it up like he normally does.
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So apart from the one we scored with, what about the two from Kane that the keeper saved.
I assume you just mean shots on target.
Like I said, I just saw it come up on the screen. It could have been shots on target but to be honest I was bored by that point as I knew the game was lost.
Well it was wrong.
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Nick I mean either, someone who can conjour chances out of nothing, and score them too..
Who is going to step up for England in that kind of role over the next 4 years..?
Jordan Sancho
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So apart from the one we scored with, what about the two from Kane that the keeper saved.
I assume you just mean shots on target.
Like I said, I just saw it come up on the screen. It could have been shots on target but to be honest I was bored by that point as I knew the game was lost.
Well it was wrong.
Croatia 55% possession England 45%
Shots
Croatia 22 England 11
Shots on Target
Croatia 7 England 2
The other shot must have come after the stats came up on the screen
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If the stats were in the second half then they were wrong because the Kane thing happened just before half time.
Let’s not have an argument about this as well.
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I hope to God the British newspapers don't revert to type and decide to give any of the players or the manager a kicking they don't deserve.
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I hope to God the British newspapers don't revert to type and decide to give any of the players or the manager a kicking they don't deserve.
It would be unusual if they didn’t Glynn but somehow this time I think it may not happen.
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They have done the country proud,we are missing that bit of class to open up the opposition in midfield, I would have liked to see Loftus Cheek on with Alie, but hey it has been a great ride over this competition, and the better team on the night won.
Let's hope we can kick on from here, with the youngsters coming through it may happen.
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We're missing a Gazza-type, that can unlock a defence.
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I hope to God the British newspapers don't revert to type and decide to give any of the players or the manager a kicking they don't deserve.
I would hope they don't. Everyone with half a brain cell or more can see how well they've done and how we've all rightly got behind them. They should come back to a hero's welcome quite frankly.
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So apart from the one we scored with, what about the two from Kane that the keeper saved.
I assume you just mean shots on target.
I think kane had been flagged offside for that which would mean it doesn't count as a shot in the stats?
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Although had Kane put the ball in the net, VAR May have shown he wasn’t actually offside..
Doesn’t matter now..
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One thing it has done is f**k up any feel good factor to help Theresa May. She is a dead woman walking but tonight has probably made that walk a bit shorter.
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So apart from the one we scored with, what about the two from Kane that the keeper saved.
I assume you just mean shots on target.
I think kane had been flagged offside for that which would mean it doesn't count as a shot in the stats?
Wrong again.
Kane was onside, the keeper saved the first one.
He hit the post and then it rebounded onto the keeper and out of play on the other side of the goal.
The linesman flagged for a goal kick, thinking that Kane had got the last touch.
It should have been a corner.
By the way, that was the same linesman who failed to give us another corner and a throw in when the the ball had clearly gone out of play off Croatian players in extra time.
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Although had Kane put the ball in the net, VAR May have shown he wasn’t actually offside..
Doesn’t matter now..
Let's face it, that linesman got most things wrong all game.
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Anyone who is having a pop at Sterling is just doing so cause they don’t like him.
He was excellent today and we went down hill when he went off.
Stones had a header cleared off the line, lingard missed a good chance, Kane should’ve done better with the header, he should’ve played sterling in the first half.
First half we were very good absolutely battered them and controlled the game, needed to take our chances
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Alex Oxlade Chamberlain had a superb 2nd half of the season for Liverpool, he could have been that difference in central midfield.
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First half was decent but then we fizzled out. Croatia's experience and know-how kicked in and they were just a bit too streetwise. Stones and Walker switched off a bit on the goals - those two were always the question mark in terms of their defensive ability.
It's disappointing and a missed opportunity, but it doesn't detract from the fact that it's been our best World Cup for a generation. Hopefully the players will learn from it and be contenders again next time. Could do with one or two more creative players through the ranks though.
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I don’t think we fizzled out, they upped their game. It’s a World Cup semi final there was no way we were going to dominate like we did in the first half for 90 mins. That’s why we needed to take our chances. Should’ve been 3-0 at half time
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Just my opinion dickos. I think we dropped a bit deeper, didn't apply as much pressure, and the slick passing turned panicky and forced. We couldn't keep the first half display going due to a combination of things - Croatia improving and digging in, fatigue coming in, lack of experience etc.
Not taking anything away from what England have done though. I didn't expect us to progress beyond the last 16 before the tournament started so to get to a semi-final is a big achievement.
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We didn't manage the game well enough. In the cold light of day, Young went absent and it was crying out for Rose before they scored. Alli was ineffective so Southgate has to learn to be Ruthless with his subs and not wait till its too late. We're not far off and we need to make sure we continue to progress and retain that hunger to get better.
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Proud of the journey we've been on, but fine margins win games and Gareth, you need to respond to tactical changes much quicker!
Our lack of experience also became a factor, but it's all water under the bridge now and the young guns have to learn from it.
We can all see improvement and that is important for the future.
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I don’t think we fizzled out, they upped their game. It’s a World Cup semi final there was no way we were going to dominate like we did in the first half for 90 mins. That’s why we needed to take our chances. Should’ve been 3-0 at half time
I agree with this dickos.
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You can do What Ifs at any event though. I get that the draw "opened up" like it probably never will again, but we can do those What Ifs so often. We were never favourites in 2002 but we could've beaten Brazil, and then we'd have been a semi final with Turkey and a final against a pretty average Germany team away from the trophy.
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No way the keeper should be saving that free kick, it went like a bullet and was about 3 inch below the crossbar, the keeper would’ve been expecting the ball going the other corner.
Great free kick and if ronaldo has scored it everyone would be wetting themselves
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As good a moment as Trippier's free-kick was, the keeper didn't make any effort to dive and it wasn't in the corner - good flight on the ball and everything else, but the GK should be saving that or at least making an attempt to.
I thought the same at first as the keeper didn't stretch for it, but although it was a good yard inside the post, and not too hard, it was perfectly just underneath the bar and significantly, the keeper couldn't see it till too late. Not a chance.
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How many times have you seen situations like Croatia's first goal where the ref has given a foul for dangerous play. Not that I was surprised that he didn't give it as he was garbage last night.
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It wasn't dangerous play though. His foot was nowhere near the defender's head.
Both goals showed that England's defence is still vulnerable. Perisic and Mandzukic reacted far more quickly to the emerging situation than the defenders did. It's fine margins, but that's what makes the difference at this level.
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Just watched the game again and bar 25 mins in 2nd half we were the better side.
Extra time we were also the better side,
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and I'm very surprised people haven't twigged today is the battle with a Belgium "team" but the war could well end next month as they say we'll meet again !!! for the final curtain
it happened in 1962 as we all know czecks in same group as brazil and met in the final
think czecks got a measly 3 points in the group
sorry folks I misread the information I was given from above (not the same one as gaz's) about Belgium meeting England again in The Competition - I forgot to ask my source if it was the final forget he could have meant the 3rd place play off match
an England Belgium final was 33/1 at the time
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and I'm very surprised people haven't twigged today is the battle with a Belgium "team" but the war could well end next month as they say we'll meet again !!! for the final curtain
it happened in 1962 as we all know czecks in same group as brazil and met in the final
think czecks got a measly 3 points in the group
sorry folks I misread the information I was given from above (not the same one as gaz's) about Belgium meeting England again in The Competition - I forgot to ask my source if it was the final forget he could have meant the 3rd place play off match
an England Belgium final was 33/1 at the time
On a related point, didn't Germany and USA play each other twice at World Cup 2002. Or Germany v Turkey?
Got a recollection the third place game in that competition was also a group stage game, or maybe a semi-final.
just realised it was a "bridge too far" as they say for both teams maybe they make a film with that name one day
:suicide:
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Just watching the England v Belgium game. Who's testimonial is it?
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What we can see is Jones is not good enough, Dier to slow be the central pivot. Sterling not afront two player. Rose not good enough Delph better there than him.
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What we can see is Jones is not good enough, Dier to slow be the central pivot. Sterling not afront two player. Rose not good enough Delph better there than him.
Sterling is quality, agree that Dier isn’t good enough though.
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Yeah, I’ve never really seen the fuss about Dier, but I really rate Sterling, although he seems to panic whenever he has time on the ball in or just outside the box. But don’t think you can read too much into this game either way. As Cantley Rover posted, it’s pretty much like a friendly.
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Played really well this 2nd half.
Should’ve scored at least 1
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Yeah, I’ve never really seen the fuss about Dier, but I really rate Sterling, although he seems to panic whenever he has time on the ball in or just outside the box. But don’t think you can read too much into this game either way. As Cantley Rover posted, it’s pretty much like a friendly.
For me Sterling is all huff and no puff. He dribbles down blind alleys, his passing is poor and cannot finish. Other than that he is excellent.
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Played really well this 2nd half.
Should’ve scored at least 1
Yeh shoulda woulda coulda
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Played really well this 2nd half.
Should’ve scored at least 1
Agreed, we are having a good go at them now.
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All over now
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Played really well this 2nd half.
Should’ve scored at least 1
Yeh shoulda woulda coulda
What?
Played well in all the games.
It’s funny how all the people who were saying England are shite and won’t do anything this World Cup are now the ones moaning about getting knocked out in the semi
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What we can see is Jones is not good enough, Dier to slow be the central pivot. Sterling not afront two player. Rose not good enough Delph better there than him.
Sterling is quality, agree that Dier isn’t good enough though.
Gaz I’m not saying he is quality but not in the front two.
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Rashford must be the most frustrating player I have ever seen bags of talent but rarely any end product and so many wrong decisions, to be fair to dier he is the 1 creating the chances
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All over now
Yep, due to us pushing on I think.
Fair play though it was a good break away goal.
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Jones is shocking if Walker had played they would not have scored
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We're just too slow in our build up play, we need to learn how to counter like the Belgians do
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We're just too slow in our build up play, we need to learn how to counter like the Belgians do
Too many passes back to the goalie. Gerrit forward!
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Played very well second half. Plenty to build on.
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Played very well second half. Plenty to build on.
I agree, until we get around the box and then we struggle, Kane for the most part in the last two games has gine missing, not just him either, there just not enough movement in and around the box
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We're just too slow in our build up play, we need to learn how to counter like the Belgians do
while your right mate not many teams can break like they did, we need play to our strengths get more balls in box and as you say speed up on our build up play
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It was just like watching Rovers last season.
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Played very well second half. Plenty to build on.
I agree, until we get around the box and then we struggle, Kane for the most part in the last two games has gine missing, not just him either, there just not enough movement in and around the box
Kane is either not fully fit or just knackered.
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Apparently been carrying an injury since the Colombia game.
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Well why play him in a meaningless game? Gave us nothing going forwards.
Did someone say Sterling was quality? He was quality at giving Belgium the ball back! Much better second half with Sterling in the dressing room.
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Enjoyed that game. Two teams playing progressive football. England a work in progress, missing that element of guile and creativity that Belgium have in Hazard and De Bruyne. The spoke of the team is fairly young as well. Like the look of Loftus Cheek. Big lad but great control and prepared to run at players. Augers well for the future.
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We're just too slow in our build up play, we need to learn how to counter like the Belgians do
It would be nice but I don't think I've seen a team in my lifetime ( apart maybe from that cruyff Dutch team ) with quite so much talent as the Belgians have now . Yes there have been sparkling Italian, German and of course Brazilian/ Argentinian teams in the past but none with the 1-11 talent of this team.
It's a tragedy that they won't be contesting the final tomorrow with a full team , we of course have some work to do but I'm nevertheless proud of our players and manager, especially as many others have said , how well they have conducted themselves
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We’re about 6 years behind Belgium its not fair to compare. If you go back to 2012 when the majority of their players were the same as England’s are now, you will see that they were performing worse than we have here.
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With all the junior teams doing well we have some exiting talent coming through, the problem now is they need game time in the PL, something English talent seems to be starved of
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Thing is, it’s all very well saying we’re x years behind Belgium or we just lack a deBruyne and a Hazard.
We have NEVER produced players of that quality. We have never produced players with the combination of technical ability, drive and tactical nous/discipline that those two have.
There’s something about the way our game is structured that stops us from producing players like that. There’s no sign that any of the current crop of young players are going to mature to become players of that standard.
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Thing is, it’s all very well saying we’re x years behind Belgium or we just lack a deBruyne and a Hazard.
We have NEVER produced players of that quality. We have never produced players with the combination of technical ability, drive and tactical nous/discipline that those two have.
There’s something about the way our game is structured that stops us from producing players like that. There’s no sign that any of the current crop of young players are going to mature to become players of that standard.
Billy i dont know how long you have managed the urge to open your veins, but reading your comments on most things from football to brexit,i think you should call a help line before the deep dark abyss claims you. Bless you my son :silly: :suicide:
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Paul Gascogne for one, would be a player to match either of the two Belgians mentioned in BSTs post.
A genuine World class player.
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Yes he was. He was an utter genius. But he lacked the discipline that so many other geniuses have had. So his career didn’t achieve what it ought to have done.
You’re kind of making my point for me. That’s the one, deeply flawed genius that we have produced in 40 years.
Meantime:
France: Zidane, Platini, Henry, Tigana, Giresse and a group of top players in the current crop that may well match them.
Spain: A whole generation of whom Iniesta and Xavi stand out.
Italy: Baggio, Pirlo and a bagful of superb defenders.
Argentina: Maradona and Messi who are streets ahead of any we have produced.
Brazil: Zico, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Rivaldo.
Germany: A conveyor belt of disciplined sub-geniuses. Matthäus, Klinsmann, Moeller, Rummenigge, Lahm, etc, etc, etc.
Portugal: Figo, Ronaldo.
Belgium: Scifo, DeBruyne, Hazard
Holland: Bergkamp, Gullitt, vanBasten, Rijkaard, Robben.
Even Croatia: Smaller than Yorkshire but they produced Suker, Boban, Prosinecki, Modric. All of them as good as any we have produced in that timescale.
Then even what we think of as lower-level football countries have produced equally talented players in small numbers.
Romania: Hagi
Bulgaria: Stoichkov
Yugoslavia/Montenegro: Savicevic.
Denmark: Michael Laudrup.
You see the point? Every top footballing nation has produced several Gascoigne-level or better players in the past 40 years. Or, in Germany’s case, not many geniuses but a conveyor belt of technically strong, highly disciplined winners. Many other countries have produced one or two On a par with Gascoigne. There’s something about our game that doesn’t produce a sufficient number players of that ability on a regular basis to justify our belief that we’re a major football power. We won’t be regular contenders until we do the same.
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Thing is, it’s all very well saying we’re x years behind Belgium or we just lack a deBruyne and a Hazard.
We have NEVER produced players of that quality. We have never produced players with the combination of technical ability, drive and tactical nous/discipline that those two have.
There’s something about the way our game is structured that stops us from producing players like that. There’s no sign that any of the current crop of young players are going to mature to become players of that standard.
Billy i dont know how long you have managed the urge to open your veins, but reading your comments on most things from football to brexit,i think you should call a help line before the deep dark abyss claims you. Bless you my son :silly: :suicide:
You misread me Darren. I’m a hopeless optimist. I want the very best for my country. It hurts to see us settling for something way, way less than the best, whether in football or Brexit, and convincing ourselves that we are doing ok. We should have much higher ambitions.
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Davor Suker better than any player England have produced in the last 40 years? There's quite a few ballon dor voters who disagree with you on that one. Good striker no doubt but where you get the idea he was a skillful genius I don't know(surprised Marco Matarazzi didn't get a mention).
Also according to your list Belgium produced 1 player All-time of the required standard before this current crop. So hardly a signifier of a deep routed problem that stretches back decades - especially since most of those players talents have been cultivated at a young age in the EPL (Along with Ronaldo, Bale, Fabregas and others who all qualify as 'Home grown')
How many of those Belgians play in their own country? In fact how many on that list spent their teens and 20s playing in their own country?
It would be a very low percentage. So why should English players only play and learn about English football that's probably the problem rather than eugenics or whatever your getting at.
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Nobody is suggesting we’re going to have players of the quality of de Bruyne and hazard.
But when they were the same age as rashford, Ali, Loftus-Cheek cheek. Nobody would’ve been suggesting they would be the players they are now.
Lineker, Shearer and Owen were better than some players on your list, add to that Robson, Gazza, sheringham, these were all amongst the worlds best players
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Gazza DID lack discipline and that's something that should be hammered home to every England fan. He didn't care about the England team he only cared about himself. 90 He cried when HE would miss the final not the team, 94 he missed a load of qualifiers with minor niggles and was a disruptive influence in 98 before and after being dropped (and he also had loads of inappropriate tattoos probably)
However at the end of Hazard and De Bruynes careers you could say "they were good but they were chokers when it came to the big international games" that's what we say about England's "Golden Generation" and if Baggio was English his name would be a swear word. So Gazza, Hoddle,Waddle and even Rooney would not look at of place on your list.
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Gazza DID lack discipline and that's something that should be hammered home to every England fan. He didn't care about the England team he only cared about himself. 90 He cried when HE would miss the final not the team, 94 he missed a load of qualifiers with minor niggles and was a disruptive influence in 98 before and after being dropped (and he also had loads of inappropriate tattoos probably)
However at the end of Hazard and De Bruynes careers you could say "they were good but they were chokers when it came to the big international games" that's what we say about England's "Golden Generation" and if Baggio was English his name would be a swear word. So Gazza, Hoddle,Waddle and even Rooney would not look at of place on your list.
Bit early to be writing off Hazard & De Bruyne as chokers given they are both only 27.
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I did put "at the end of their careers" but point taken I should have qualified it with if they don't win anything.
People seem to be giving Belgium a lot more credit than they deserve at this point. Yesterday on the telly Keane,
Neville, Dixon and Wright all agreed it was a shame Belgium weren't in the final against France because "they would give em a real game" and would be "worthy" champions FRANCE BEAT THEM IN THE SEMI - what more do you want?
It would be like me saying Portugal would have beaten England in the 1966 Final if they hadn't been unfortunate enough to be in the tough side of the draw the meant they played and got beat by England in the SF. It's disrepectful to Croatia and it's massively disrepectful to France.
10 DNQ 12 DNQ 14 QF 16 QF 18 SF - if this is Sterling and Alli''s tournament record at 27 everybody would be saying drop the F*ckers - not calling them world class geniuses who've won even if they don't actually win.
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We come away with the ranking of fourth, realistically I would put us about seven or eight in that competition, and teams not there, like Italy and Holland who if they had got there, may have done well,
That is an improvement in the last four years that most people would have taken after Brazil, so good on them, the bar is now set higher, we need to carry on improving at the same rate, not easy.
If we do in four years we may be a big problem to the rest of the world.
And well done Russia, for putting on such a good show.
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Italy and Holland didn't get there because they were and are currently shit. What about that is so difficult for the people of the world to actually grasp?
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I thought that RedJ. Italy and Holland had their chance at this World Cup and got nowhere near. The current Dutch side in particular is atrocious compared to what we're used to from them.
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I wonder if people said the things people currently say about the Netherlands about the likes of Hungary when they started to turn to shit?
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Nobody is suggesting we’re going to have players of the quality of de Bruyne and hazard.
But when they were the same age as rashford, Ali, Loftus-Cheek cheek. Nobody would’ve been suggesting they would be the players they are now.
Lineker, Shearer and Owen were better than some players on your list, add to that Robson, Gazza, sheringham, these were all amongst the worlds best players
Dickos
1) You make a fair point about age. That’s the challenge for that crop of players then. Can they mature from being the best that WE have, to bring the best that the world has.
2) You putting that list of players forward, depressingly makes my point for me again.
You’re right. Those were AMONG the best players in the world. But EVERY country of any football pedigree produces players who are AMONG the best players in the world. My point is that the ones we produce do not hit the heights that the very, very best do.
You list was mainly of goalscorers. I deliberately tried to steer clear of players who were predominantly goalscoring strikers because, frankly, they are very common at the highest level.
So I didn’t mention Butrageno, Raul, Battistuta, Rossi, Papin, Klose, Suárez, Sánchez, Lewandowski, Larsson, Romario, Salas. All of those and many, many more, could be ranked alongside the ones you quote and most of them wouldn’t be considered to be in the top 20-30 of all time.
Similarly you mention Robson who was a fine player. But in that mound, so we’re Viera, Keane, Gattuso and others, none of whom would be considered in the very top pantheon.
But I can see I’m pushing water up hill. I’m asking why we don’t produce a Ronaldo or a Messi or a Zidane or a Maradona, or a Ronaldinho. And you suggest Sheringham.
It’s what I was talking about in another post. Convincing yourself that what we have is the very best when it clearly isn’t.
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Not suggesting sheringham was as good as Zidane, look at Scholes people like Zidane and iniesta have stated that he was the best player they ever played against.
This World Cup we’ve equalled our best ever major tournament outside of England, yet people are still looking for excuses as to why.
Just be happy it happened and look forward, I just think it’s hard for people to accept it when we have a successful national team as they’ve spent so many years being happy slagging them off.
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Barely bet these days but gone a fiver on 3-0 and 3-1 France ! Probably a waste of one of the fivers !
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Just watching the closing ceremony on itv. What a miserable t**t Roy Keane is.
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Nobody is suggesting we’re going to have players of the quality of de Bruyne and hazard.
But when they were the same age as rashford, Ali, Loftus-Cheek cheek. Nobody would’ve been suggesting they would be the players they are now.
Lineker, Shearer and Owen were better than some players on your list, add to that Robson, Gazza, sheringham, these were all amongst the worlds best players
Dickos
1) You make a fair point about age. That’s the challenge for that crop of players then. Can they mature from being the best that WE have, to bring the best that the world has.
2) You putting that list of players forward, depressingly makes my point for me again.
You’re right. Those were AMONG the best players in the world. But EVERY country of any football pedigree produces players who are AMONG the best players in the world. My point is that the ones we produce do not hit the heights that the very, very best do.
You list was mainly of goalscorers. I deliberately tried to steer clear of players who were predominantly goalscoring strikers because, frankly, they are very common at the highest level.
So I didn’t mention Butrageno, Raul, Battistuta, Rossi, Papin, Klose, Suárez, Sánchez, Lewandowski, Larsson, Romario, Salas. All of those and many, many more, could be ranked alongside the ones you quote and most of them wouldn’t be considered to be in the top 20-30 of all time.
Similarly you mention Robson who was a fine player. But in that mound, so we’re Viera, Keane, Gattuso and others, none of whom would be considered in the very top pantheon.
But I can see I’m pushing water up hill. I’m asking why we don’t produce a Ronaldo or a Messi or a Zidane or a Maradona, or a Ronaldinho. And you suggest Sheringham.
It’s what I was talking about in another post. Convincing yourself that what we have is the very best when it clearly isn’t.
It's all very subjective though.
Look at Claude Makelele and how highly Real Madrid's crop, including Zinedine Zidane, rated him.
He wasn't a top player in terms of flair or quality, but he was the most important player in three club teams that he represented and absolutely outstanding in his role.
Yet, shockingly, he was never considered as a superstar.
He was never considered a superstar because he did the dirty stuff. Like most defenders are never considered superstars or rarely get anywhere near major awards, because they don't tend to be the ones doing the skill moves or scoring/assisting goals week in week out.
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Barely bet these days but gone a fiver on 3-0 and 3-1 France ! Probably a waste of one of the fivers !
i expect the froggies who by the way drew 0-0 at home to mighty Luxembourg in the world cup qualifiers to beat the "thugs" by 3 goals (someone might even monopolise the scoring) let's see if the croats DARE damage the french in the first half with their fouls like they did England
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Cheating French t**ts.
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Own goal Mandzukic, so it’s 1-0 for France
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1-1
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1-1, goal Perisic
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2-1. Not convinced that was deliberate handball, but it's subjective.
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Croatia are being cheated out of this.
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For me it’s a handball, his hand comes down and blocks the ball coming through.
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2-1. Not convinced that was deliberate handball, but it's subjective.
It wasn’t deliberate, but now the rules says it’s handball if the hand is not in a normal position (it doesn’t matter if it’s deliberate or not)
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Going on previous decisions given in the tournament that was a penalty.
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Look how chuffing fast the ball travels. No way is that a deliberate hand ball.
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Reading all over social media people saying including Match of the day pundits that it wasn’t a free kick or a penalty.
100% contact on griezmann although he was already diving
100% handball as his hand moved towards the ball
I think the ref has it spot on
Anyone who disagrees imagine if rovers had these decisions impact upon them
This is why football is ace
Shearer and Rio saying they are bad decisions is a joke they would be the first players to appeal for these
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https://twitter.com/263mj/status/1018522287857758208?s=21
Watch this replay, definitely a penalty.
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Penalty for me, hand to ball, not ball to hand
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Penalty for me, hand to ball, not ball to hand
His hand tracks the movement of the ball so a penalty.
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The more I see it, the more I think it is.
I think the problem - for want of a better word - is the law is very subjective.
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https://twitter.com/263mj/status/1018522287857758208?s=21
Watch this replay, definitely a penalty.
He's jumping and the player immediately in front misses it. Play it full speed and then tell me how he can get out of the way.
I don't see how anybody can make a concious decision to deliberately handle (or not handle) the ball in a quarter of a second.
IMO it's over-analysis gone mad, all this.
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It’s never a penalty.
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Thank god Croatia's soul destroying technocratic approach to football won't win this world cup.
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Crotia have been the best team and find themseles 3-1 down
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Barely bet these days but gone a fiver on 3-0 and 3-1 France ! Probably a waste of one of the fivers !
i expect the froggies who by the way drew 0-0 at home to mighty Luxembourg in the world cup qualifiers to beat the "thugs" by 3 goals (someone might even monopolise the scoring) let's see if the croats DARE damage the french in the first half with their fouls like they did England
please can we have 2 goals more for greezeman 3 for mbabbe or is it 4 for pogba
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4-1 Mbappe
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Lol@ Lovren, he thinks he's one of the best defenders in the world, your team has shipped four goals in the World Cup final, think again 😀😀😀😀😀
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Lol@ Lovren, he thinks he's one of the best defenders in the world, your team has shipped four goals in the World Cup final, think again 😀😀😀😀😀
and he behaved like an Agentinian/uruguyan 1966 animal on Englands black players in the first half of the match and no bookings
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Barely bet these days but gone a fiver on 3-0 and 3-1 France ! Probably a waste of one of the fivers !
.... or both Fivers. They did offer me £40 to cash outand I tried to eke it out to see if it made £60 as I was on for £130
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Lol@ Lovren, he thinks he's one of the best defenders in the world, your team has shipped four goals in the World Cup final, think again 😀😀😀😀😀
and he behaved like an Agentinian/uruguyan 1966 animal on Englands black players in the first half of the match and no bookings
How he did not get Carded for the first 2 Fouls he did is beyond me - mind you how did that bloke get away with the pull back on Mbappe in added time of first half ? Cast iron Yellow not given
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Lol@ Lovren, he thinks he's one of the best defenders in the world, your team has shipped four goals in the World Cup final, think again 😀😀😀😀😀
and he behaved like an Agentinian/uruguyan 1966 animal on Englands black players in the first half of the match and no bookings
It's debatable wether he's the best defender at Liverpool, never mind the World
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Barely bet these days but gone a fiver on 3-0 and 3-1 France ! Probably a waste of one of the fivers !
.... or both Fivers. They did offer me £40 to cash outand I tried to eke it out to see if it made £60 as I was on for £130
my very happy bank manager doesn't mind if there is extra time anything to get greaseman 2 goals
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Lol@ Lovren, he thinks he's one of the best defenders in the world, your team has shipped four goals in the World Cup final, think again 😀😀😀😀😀
and he behaved like an Agentinian/uruguyan 1966 animal on Englands black players in the first half of the match and no bookings
It's debatable wether he's the best defender at Liverpool, never mind the World
“Debatable” when they’ve got Van Dijk haha, think you’d struggle to find anyone to have that debate with!
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Pity for Croatia - best (maybe 'most dominant' is a better word/phrase) side in the final - they deserved better in that game - and wouldn't it have been nice to say 'at least England were beaten by the winners? Lol - but fair play France - job done.
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Lol@ Lovren, he thinks he's one of the best defenders in the world, your team has shipped four goals in the World Cup final, think again 😀😀😀😀😀
Four Croatia defenders and I think Lovren was the worst of them today.
Also, I think it was a penalty. He moved his hand towards it albeit probably instinctively. It didn't affect the outcome of the game because France were ruthless in the second half and clearly a side with more quality up front and a better understanding of how to approach these big games.
Worthy winners of the tournament. Their knock-out run took in Argentina, Uruguay, Belgium and Croatia. Not bad at all, that.
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Nobody is suggesting we’re going to have players of the quality of de Bruyne and hazard.
But when they were the same age as rashford, Ali, Loftus-Cheek cheek. Nobody would’ve been suggesting they would be the players they are now.
Lineker, Shearer and Owen were better than some players on your list, add to that Robson, Gazza, sheringham, these were all amongst the worlds best players
Gerrard, Beckham, Rooney and Scholes, off the top of my head are a match for some of the players on BSTs list too.
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What a thoroughly enjoyable world cup.
England surpassed expectations and seen some cracking goals and ridiculous decisions. Ace.
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Ashley Cole ,maybe only a defender but he was world class
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Ashley Cole? He was awful.
Anyway, best WC since 1990 imho.
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Cole was world class without doubt.
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Ashley Cole? He was awful.
Anyway, best WC since 1990 imho.
Ashley Cole was/is a world class tosser but he was some player, he was the best left back in the word for several years. I can’t believe that someone would call him awful unless they’re describing his personality.
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Ashley Cole? He was awful.
Anyway, best WC since 1990 imho.
Ashley Cole was/is a world class tosser but he was some player, he was the best left back in the word for several years. I can’t believe that someone would call him awful unless they’re describing his personality.
I don’t get why people don’t like Cole as a person. People used to think the same about Defoe as well. Misconception on both parts I think.
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It was his book and what he wrote about being offered a new contract by Arsenal, throw in what’s admittedly paper talk about sleeping around and it doesn’t paint a picture of a pleasant individual.
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Ashley Cole? He was awful.
Anyway, best WC since 1990 imho.
Ashley Cole was/is a world class tosser but he was some player, he was the best left back in the word for several years. I can’t believe that someone would call him awful unless they’re describing his personality.
I don’t get why people don’t like Cole as a person. People used to think the same about Defoe as well. Misconception on both parts I think.
I think with Cole it was the comments in his autobiography re Arsenal "only" offering £55k p/w when he wanted £60k p/w. It was coming around the time that fans were starting to resent the money explosion so he took a lot of flak for it. He did a small interview with The Guardian lately about his life in America and the unfair media perception of him and he came across quite well.
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Ashley Cole? He was awful.
Anyway, best WC since 1990 imho.
Ashley Cole was/is a world class tosser but he was some player, he was the best left back in the word for several years. I can’t believe that someone would call him awful unless they’re describing his personality.
I reckon Paulo Maldini and Roberto Carlos would have something to say about that
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Ashley Cole? He was awful.
Anyway, best WC since 1990 imho.
Ashley Cole was/is a world class tosser but he was some player, he was the best left back in the word for several years. I can’t believe that someone would call him awful unless they’re describing his personality.
I reckon Paulo Maldini and Roberto Carlos would have something to say about that
He was at his peak when Maldini had mainly switched to centre back and Carlos was just starting to decline. He was the stand out LB at WC 2006 and the best in the world.
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Both were entering their 90s when he was at his peak to be fair.
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You can only be compared to the players around at the time. It's not your fault if your peers are starting to age. There was a time when he would have got in most good sides, home and abroad.
His comments about his wage at Arsenal were very ill advised. Didn't he say that he felt like a slave? An absolutely ludicrous comment that endeared him to no one.
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Ashley Cole? He was awful.
Anyway, best WC since 1990 imho.
Ashley Cole was/is a world class tosser but he was some player, he was the best left back in the word for several years. I can’t believe that someone would call him awful unless they’re describing his personality.
I reckon Paulo Maldini and Roberto Carlos would have something to say about that
He was at his peak when Maldini had mainly switched to centre back and Carlos was just starting to decline. He was the stand out LB at WC 2006 and the best in the world.
Exactly this.
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Ashley Cole? He was awful.
Anyway, best WC since 1990 imho.
Ashley Cole was/is a world class tosser but he was some player, he was the best left back in the word for several years. I can’t believe that someone would call him awful unless they’re describing his personality.
I don’t get why people don’t like Cole as a person. People used to think the same about Defoe as well. Misconception on both parts I think.
I think with Cole it was the comments in his autobiography re Arsenal "only" offering £55k p/w when he wanted £60k p/w. It was coming around the time that fans were starting to resent the money explosion so he took a lot of flak for it. He did a small interview with The Guardian lately about his life in America and the unfair media perception of him and he came across quite well.
Ask Ronaldo who the best left back he’s played against is....
Regarding the money at Arsenal, he was promised a deal that never ended up materialising. They said one thing and did another, that’s what pissed him off.
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Ashley Cole? He was awful.
Anyway, best WC since 1990 imho.
Ashley Cole was/is a world class tosser but he was some player, he was the best left back in the word for several years. I can’t believe that someone would call him awful unless they’re describing his personality.
I don’t get why people don’t like Cole as a person. People used to think the same about Defoe as well. Misconception on both parts I think.
I think with Cole it was the comments in his autobiography re Arsenal "only" offering £55k p/w when he wanted £60k p/w. It was coming around the time that fans were starting to resent the money explosion so he took a lot of flak for it. He did a small interview with The Guardian lately about his life in America and the unfair media perception of him and he came across quite well.
Ask Ronaldo who the best left back he’s played against is....
Regarding the money at Arsenal, he was promised a deal that never ended up materialising. They said one thing and did another, that’s what pissed him off.
True, and also worth noting that was the start of Arsenal's decline when they started letting the big name players leave to rivals for better contracts.
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Thank goodness it’s over, just could not get interested in it and didn’t watch the final in fact only watched 3 games in total. The trouble is it reaches saturation point just as the coverage of the Premier League has. Every paper you pick up every time the tv or radio is on the social media coverage everyone in the pub talkng about it it’s all just too much. Now where is that darkened room I need to go and lie down I need to think about something more relaxing like errrrm oh I know Brexit😱
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Thank goodness it’s over, just could not get interested in it and didn’t watch the final in fact only watched 3 games in total. The trouble is it reaches saturation point just as the coverage of the Premier League has. Every paper you pick up every time the tv or radio is on the social media coverage everyone in the pub talkng about it it’s all just too much. Now where is that darkened room I need to go and lie down I need to think about something more relaxing like errrrm oh I know Brexit😱
Each to their own I suppose.
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Thank goodness it’s over, just could not get interested in it and didn’t watch the final in fact only watched 3 games in total. The trouble is it reaches saturation point just as the coverage of the Premier League has. Every paper you pick up every time the tv or radio is on the social media coverage everyone in the pub talkng about it it’s all just too much. Now where is that darkened room I need to go and lie down I need to think about something more relaxing like errrrm oh I know Brexit😱
If you only watched three matches then you have seriously missed out, excellent football and excellent drama throughout this entire tournament. It hasn't left me burnt out either, I can't wait to go and watch Rovers again in a couple of weeks!
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Played 6. Won 2 in 90mins 1on penos and got beat 3 times. The only way the world cup is coming home is if someone Knicks it.
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I have to say I fancied France before a ball was kicked, although not strongly enough to back them with hard cash. I wondered if it might be a World Cup too early for them. After the Group stage, where they were underwhelming, I tended to rule them out and it was only after the Argentina game I took much notice of them. Even then I thought Belgium would probably do them in the semis.
They are an example of team that timed their run just right. They reminded me a lot of Italy in 1982 who stank the place out in the Group Stages, only getting through a modest group on Goal Difference but then coming to life against Brazil and Argentina in the second phase. England's performance was a lot like 1982 as well. Very impressive in the early stages but unable to find another gear as the tournament progressed. At least we got further this time.
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Played 6. Won 2 in 90mins 1on penos and got beat 3 times. The only way the world cup is coming home is if someone Knicks it.
Played 6. Won 2 in 90mins 1on penos and got beat 3 times. The only way the world cup is coming home is if someone Knicks it.
2 of the defeats were meaningless, you’ve included the Croatia defeat but not the Columbia win. Both were after 90 mins.
If you can’t get excited about our joint best major tournament ever outside of England then there’s summat up with you.
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It almost as though people are comparing England's performance to a mythical average that doesn't exist.
If you don't win in the 90 it doesn't count as a win but if you go on to get beat it counts as a loss! Is very weird. I'm sure Croatia fans don't think this.
The easy route theory is an interesting one. In the UK it's "No, Germany,Brazil, Dutch, Spain or Italys"
ROW "they played Sweden in the QF - A very easy opponent as the couldn't even get a result against a German team in total disarray"
I don't know what this says about UK football fans but it is interesting.
Also all 4 of England's KO opponents were group winners. France played two 2nd place teams to get to SF. (Admittedly they convincingly beat both the group winners they faced and we lost to the same opponents).
That win against Sweden was the kind of win a champion has (no dramas fairly easy) and they were heading that way against Croatia too but then lost a bit of control. it's going to be difficult going forward as the average England fan gives the players more respect for winning a coin toss against Colombia than a football match against Sweden.
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I also find the plaudits Lukaku is getting absolutely baffling.
Kane scores 6 goals mostly against the total shit teams but then gets criticism for only scoring 1 in the last 5 games.
Lukaku scores 4, none in the last 5 games, and all his goals were against the same shit teams Kane scored against.
It's especially head scratching considering the flak England's midfield get for not creating compared with the "genius" tag attached to de Bruyne, hazard and Co. Lukaku fluffed loads of chances and only scored against crap teams but is "world class" compared to Kane can anyone explain this?
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I also find the plaudits Lukaku is getting absolutely baffling.
Kane scores 6 goals mostly against the total shit teams but then gets criticism for only scoring 1 in the last 5 games.
Lukaku scores 4, none in the last 5 games, and all his goals were against the same shit teams Kane scored against.
It's especially head scratching considering the flak England's midfield get for not creating compared with the "genius" tag attached to de Bruyne, hazard and Co. Lukaku fluffed loads of chances and only scored against crap teams but is "world class" compared to Kane can anyone explain this?
Lukaku played extremely well in the knock out stages. He fluffed a couple in the 3rd place play off and I don't think he scored after the group stages but his all round game was superb for most of the tournament.
Kane scored more but was far less effective - of course some of this may be to do with the fact that Lukaku had De Bruyne & Hazard alongside him whereas Kane had Alli and Sterling. I don't want this to come across as a criticism of Kane as to score 6 goals is an outstanding achievement, but after the group stages the only really good game that I think he had was against Colombia, and a decent performance against Sweden.
I think Lukaku had a better World Cup but I'd rather have a fully fit and firing Kane in my team.
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I think lukaku only played well in the knockout games against Brazil, he didn’t do much against a very poor Japan side and neither did he do much against France.
Kane’s best game of the tournament was against Columbia he was outstanding, he was also good against Sweden in the first half bit from then on he was poor, including the Croatia and Belgium games
But nobody has really played well in every game, messi and ronaldo struggled in games.
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Can't remember if I said it on this thread or not but Kane was carrying an injury after the Colombia game apparently.
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Thank goodness it’s over, just could not get interested in it and didn’t watch the final in fact only watched 3 games in total. The trouble is it reaches saturation point just as the coverage of the Premier League has. Every paper you pick up every time the tv or radio is on the social media coverage everyone in the pub talkng about it it’s all just too much. Now where is that darkened room I need to go and lie down I need to think about something more relaxing like errrrm oh I know Brexit😱
If you only watched three matches then you have seriously missed out, excellent football and excellent drama throughout this entire tournament. It hasn't left me burnt out either, I can't wait to go and watch Rovers again in a couple of weeks!
Agreed, I got really into this WC in a way I haven't in recent major tournaments. Thoroughly enjoyed all of it and watched most of the matches, working meant I had to miss a few of the 3rd round group games. I haven't been particularly inspired by what's gone on at Rovers over the summer but I can't wait to be in a stadium watching a live match again. Season ticket at the ready...
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Can't remember if I said it on this thread or not but Kane was carrying an injury after the Colombia game apparently.
Agreed, he took a serious battering from those Colombian cheats and it must have had an effect on HK.
As for those two posts by Tarkovsky, well they perfectly sum up the anti England team bias that some “sing when we’re winning” people ( I won’t call them fans) have.
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Lovren is deluded. He thinks he's one of the best defenders in the world so anything else he says must be taken with a pinch of salt.
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I see Dejan Lovren's come out and had a moan about the referee, France and claiming Croatia played the better football.
All well and good, but...
1) The free-kick for the first goal may not have been a free-kick, however, the referee didn't score the goal or tell Croatia's defenders to sit way too deep - thus inviting on pressure where any touch is going to cause major problems for the GK.
2) The penalty for the second goal was questionable, however a French player got his head to the ball first. Now if defenders do their job properly, this shouldn't happen.
Poor excuses in an attempt to justify his team's own shortcomings, which he was partly responsible for.
France were fortunate to win so comfortably looking at all the data out there. Croatia were the better team. Nobody say “France were obviously the better team because they won” because that’s an opinion of a moron.
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Look at Croatia's build up to the first goal. As the ball comes in a Croatian looks round and then moves making no attempt to play the ball but stopping the defender getting a clean header in. They pulled exactly the same stunt on Trippier which led to their goal against us. Small niggle things but two goals for them.
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I for one was pleased that Argentina lost - simply for the handling offence by Maradona which I still feel is as bad an example of winning at all costs (by a Player) as could be found.
So although I had empathy with Argentinians in general they took a back seat to my fervent HOPE that Maradona didnt get what was so obviously so blatantly important to him
Similarly I have no axe to gring with Croatia and Croatians - they have suffered enough historically BUT I absolutely hated how Lovren got away with so much in the Tournament in general and especially against us. Did he get a Yellow Card at any point against us ? I dont think so and his first two Fouls were each worth a Card in the context a) of the game and b) in their cynicism - especially the block on Sterling (could be wrong)
So I wanted France to condemn HIM to a losers Medal which they duly did - and though he wont ever read this he is certainly NOT one of the Top 10 defenders in the World. I dont know where he stacks up and personally dont care
I would love Liverpool to launch a real assault on the Title and Champions League sooner rather than later - but now I will have to hope it comes after he has gone
Hows that for bearing a grudge
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Lovren is in the running for the golden cock award for biggest d**khead that's for sure. Behind Neymar and that Colombian coach who shoulder checked Sterling at half time IMO.
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Messi GOAT in Spain
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Had there been a fair play award then we would have come 1st by a country mile. I am amazed half of the teams have managed to get all their players home in one piece. There must have been so many tripping over the steps of the aircraft or being run over by the aircraft tow trucks whilst rolling over the tarmac. :facepalm: :facepalm:
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Had there been a fair play award then we would have come 1st by a country mile. I am amazed half of the teams have managed to get all their players home in one piece. There must have been so many tripping over the steps of the aircraft or being run over by the aircraft tow trucks whilst rolling over the tarmac. :facepalm: :facepalm:
Yes on the face of it we behaved (it seemed) in a very sporting way - something again GS probably instilled into the Team as one or two of them are a bit feisty - and one of them in particular !
That said I think we could have had a Red Card in probably the first game when Ashley Young dropped an elbow into someones chops. I cant remember if the Ref saw it or not but I was convinced that VAR would have him but seemingly that was not in their remit
Lucky "boy" I reckon cos that would probably have been his last appearance in an England Shirt but instead he got 3 or 4 more
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Lovren is in the running for the golden cock award for biggest d**khead that's for sure. Behind Neymar and that Colombian coach who shoulder checked Sterling at half time IMO.
Neymar got Best Actor
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I for one was pleased that Argentina lost - simply for the handling offence by Maradona which I still feel is as bad an example of winning at all costs (by a Player) as could be found.
So although I had empathy with Argentinians in general they took a back seat to my fervent HOPE that Maradona didnt get what was so obviously so blatantly important to him
Similarly I have no axe to gring with Croatia and Croatians - they have suffered enough historically BUT I absolutely hated how Lovren got away with so much in the Tournament in general and especially against us. Did he get a Yellow Card at any point against us ? I dont think so and his first two Fouls were each worth a Card in the context a) of the game and b) in their cynicism - especially the block on Sterling (could be wrong)
So I wanted France to condemn HIM to a losers Medal which they duly did - and though he wont ever read this he is certainly NOT one of the Top 10 defenders in the World. I dont know where he stacks up and personally dont care
I would love Liverpool to launch a real assault on the Title and Champions League sooner rather than later - but now I will have to hope it comes after he has gone
Hows that for bearing a grudge
I was glad Iran got knocked out. I’ve never forgiven Persia for the Battle of Thermopylae.
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I for one was pleased that Argentina lost - simply for the handling offence by Maradona which I still feel is as bad an example of winning at all costs (by a Player) as could be found.
So although I had empathy with Argentinians in general they took a back seat to my fervent HOPE that Maradona didnt get what was so obviously so blatantly important to him
Similarly I have no axe to gring with Croatia and Croatians - they have suffered enough historically BUT I absolutely hated how Lovren got away with so much in the Tournament in general and especially against us. Did he get a Yellow Card at any point against us ? I dont think so and his first two Fouls were each worth a Card in the context a) of the game and b) in their cynicism - especially the block on Sterling (could be wrong)
So I wanted France to condemn HIM to a losers Medal which they duly did - and though he wont ever read this he is certainly NOT one of the Top 10 defenders in the World. I dont know where he stacks up and personally dont care
I would love Liverpool to launch a real assault on the Title and Champions League sooner rather than later - but now I will have to hope it comes after he has gone
Hows that for bearing a grudge
I was glad Iran got knocked out. I’ve never forgiven Persia for the Battle of Thermopylae.
That's almost a marathon grudge BST.😉
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Having seen Portugal’s second goal reminded me of a post about Karius in the CL Final after he let the long shot from Bale beat him.
Someone said that you would never see a keeper of the quality of DeGea letting one in like that.
Whoops.
DeGea again.
That is three sloppy goals he has conceded in the last few games.
Even the best keepers make cock ups.