Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: roversdude on February 14, 2019, 07:21:06 pm
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Absolute disgrace that one of these wants to come home (back to UK) to have a child
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She says she has no regrets, so for me she’s made her bed now lie in it, let her husband provide for here not the state and way of life she rejected
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Brazenly says she wasn’t fazed by seeing heads in bins after people had been beheaded.
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I’m sure there will be some who will try and put an argument together to back her up.
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I'd like to put up an argument for the girl.
She's lost two kids already, but her attitude stinks so leave her there.
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Have a heart, lads. The poor lass is going home to Bethnal Green
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It comes to something when Jacob Rees-Mogg tonight on QT is speaking sense on this.
As he said, when she was radicalised and went to ISIS, she was 15. She was "married" immediately. In normal circumstances, we'd call a 15 year old that experienced grooming and then was raped by an older man a "victim".
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So suddenly finds the strength to break free
In my opinion should not be allowed back, I’m sure we will go all out and she will jump the queue get a house and possibly a new identity
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She went to join a cult who want to kill us all and wipe normal society from the face of the earth.
How many executions and torturing has she happily witnessed? How much compassion has she shown for IS victims? She was happy to go with the flow while they were on the up, but now the tide has turned she wants to come crawling home. Well i'm sorry love but you no longer have a home here, you made your own bed, so lie in it. Let the Kurds sort her out.
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She only wants to come back because he first 2 children died and is scared the soon to be born child will die as well which i understand , but she has no regrets about going out their or seeing the heads of the victims after they have been beheaded , listen to the interview she gave to the times news paper , prison is to good for her let her rot out their forever.
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She made a decision to join ISIS knowing full well what they were about, now their plan to kill all non Muslims has failed she would like to come back doesn’t work like that, we should accept the baby and leave her there
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It's a wonderful and admirable thing doing right by deserving and desirable people, but like in many other instances, the problem is undeserving and undesirable people want the same privileges. This often leads to genuine people losing out to the frauds.
That's the biggest reason why socialism doesn't work.
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Fascinating responses. Make JRM on QT last night sound like a bleeding heart liberal.
I thought a key feature of why we were better than IS is that we believe in man-made laws, not some perverted interpretation of what some "prophet" is supposed to have had revealed to him by God 1400 years ago.
As JRM said last night,
1) She was legally a child who was groomed into joining IS.
2) Under international law, we are duty bound to accept her back to the UK.
3) If she has committed a crime, we should then prosecute her.
She may well have done horrific things. But it's not your right or my right to say that our revulsion of what she has done means we break international law.
Unless you want to become the sort of society that IS want us to become. One where blood lust and revenge trump's the law.
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Fascinating responses. Make JRM on QT last night sound like a bleeding heart liberal.
I thought a key feature of why we were better than IS is that we believe in man-made laws, not some perverted interpretation of what some "prophet" is supposed to have had revealed to him by God 1400 years ago.
As JRM said last night,
1) She was legally a child who was groomed into joining IS.
2) Under international law, we are duty bound to accept her back to the UK.
3) If she has committed a crime, we should then prosecute her.
She may well have done horrific things. But it's not your right or my right to say that our revulsion of what she has done means we break international law.
Unless you want to become the sort of society that IS want us to become. One where blood lust and revenge trump's the law.
BST. I know we agree on virtually nothing, however i'm always happy to listen to your opinions, but in this case I think you are just plain WRONG. IS is a despicable death cult and there is clearly something seriously wrong with anyone who could claim to support their atrocities. They make the worst of Stalin and Hitler's work look like childish frolics. Everyone knows the difference between right and wrong. She has chosen her pathway and now must be made to pay the price. This is no time for do-gooders.
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BST this forum was much poorer whilst you were in exile, however can’t agree with you on this one, for me she rescinded the right to be a UK citizen
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No she hasn't. She was radicalised and went out there following the belief she was i doctrinated to follow. She's still a UK citizen. What this does highlight however is that the UK and other countries don't have a real plan on what to do with our citizens who have done this.
I blame Brexit. Utter smokescreen for other real policies.
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Genuine question.
I understand that this girl is high profile because The Times decided to put her on the front page, but given that there are already over 400 former IS jihadis who have returned to the UK without any comment, why are concerned about this particular one?
ttps://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/isis-british-jihadis-return-uk-iraq-syria-report-islamic-state-fighters-europe-threat-debate-terror-a8017811.html
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Well, I agree with BST. she should be dealt with by British laws in this country. We have the laws to deal with this here, and if she gets to one of our embassies we must take her in, or a president would be set to ignore others who are innocent of wrong doing.
A whole life sentence would be appropriate.
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Her closing remark on last night's news was something to the effect that ISIS is a busted flush and expressed disappointment at that. In spite of what she has seen these people do and probably been on the receiving end of their ways I have to agree that international law must be complied with and she allowed to return but given that she's a UK citizen her ISIS husband could be granted the right to join her here and then in 20 yrs time (or sooner) her soon to be born child would be an open goal for radicalisation and all of them a threat to UK citizens. Sticking in my craw this one.
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A little historical side note by the way AL.
I assume you don't know much about the bestiality of Hitler's regime. I'm not really sure there's a league table to rank mass murderers, but if there was, I think the industrial genocide is on a par with anything IS has done.
But if it's the means of their murders that marks them out, I suggest you have a little look at what the (fanatical right wing and Christian) Ustase did in Croatia under the protection of the Nazis, within living memory. I think you'll find that in terms of both numbers and sheer unadulterated horror, IS pales by comparison..
And before the usual suspects rush in with their half-formed opinions, this is NOT to in any way justify or support IS. They are abhorrent and need to be stamped out. But we need a bit of perspective. There's the propensity to do horrific things in every society. What marks us out as better than IS and the Ustase, is that we control the impulse to lash out.
PS. Word of warning. Do NOT go looking for stuff about Ustase atrocities if you are easily upset. They are some of the most horrific mass murders imaginable.
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It's a wonderful and admirable thing doing right by deserving and desirable people, but like in many other instances, the problem is undeserving and undesirable people want the same privileges. This often leads to genuine people losing out to the frauds.
That's the biggest reason why socialism doesn't work.
And who decides where to draw the the line BB, you? you're already clouding the the water with politics.
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She will be back before the end of June
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It comes to something when Jacob Rees-Mogg tonight on QT is speaking sense on this.
As he said, when she was radicalised and went to ISIS, she was 15. She was "married" immediately. In normal circumstances, we'd call a 15 year old that experienced grooming and then was raped by an older man a "victim".
How does Rees Mogg know she was raped?
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Because if she was "married" at 15 to an older man and they had sex (which they highly likely did as she's now only 19 and pregnant for the third time) that, legally, is rape
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Should add the "offence" didn't happen in our country where the age of consent is 16. Without checking (I'm tired and half watching a film) I doubt it's as high as that in an IS stronghold.
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Because if she was "married" at 15 to an older man and they had sex (which they highly likely did as she's now only 19 and pregnant for the third time) that, legally, is rape
Given that she left the juristriction of the UK of her own free will, and joined a caliphate, namely Islamic State and the fact that in those comunities child brides are common place and legal in their culture, the age of consent would not come into and the only way she was raped is if she didn’t give consent. So Rees Mogg cannot be sure she was raped and she hasn’t made any allegation that she was raped
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So let me get this right.
If you had a daughter at 15, who was groomed and convinced to travel to another country, where an older man had sex with her, and in that country, child brides were ten a penny.
That'd be cool?
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Because if she was "married" at 15 to an older man and they had sex (which they highly likely did as she's now only 19 and pregnant for the third time) that, legally, is rape
Given that she left the juristriction of the UK of her own free will, and joined a caliphate, namely Islamic State and the fact that in those comunities child brides are common place and legal in their culture, the age of consent would not come into and the only way she was raped is if she didn’t give consent. So Rees Mogg cannot be sure she was raped and she hasn’t made any allegation that she was raped
I don’t think she would have been going over there to make the tea and sandwiches for when the fighters came home after a tough day beheading people.
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So let me get this right.
If you had a daughter at 15, who was groomed and convinced to travel to another country, where an older man had sex with her, and in that country, child brides were ten a penny.
That'd be cool?
Of course, it's dreadful, but would, if the government gave out the message that 'trying it, and even if you don't like it you can come back' help solve the problem? Wouldn't that make it easier for young girls to be persuaded to take that route?
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So let me get this right.
If you had a daughter at 15, who was groomed and convinced to travel to another country, where an older man had sex with her, and in that country, child brides were ten a penny.
That'd be cool?
I had a daughter that was 15 once, 15 years ago, she was brought up to know right from wrong, she wasn’t stupid enough to be brainwashed, and her father (me) didn’t try to brainwash her. This young women was taken to extremist rallies by her father, if she was brainwashed it was by members of her own family. The only reason Rees Mogg is saying she was raped is because she was below the age of consent in this Country, she rejected the values and laws of this Country and went to join something she believed in, she married an ISIS fighter, most probably with her consent, so in this case I don’t think the allegations of rape apply in the sense that how we in this Country see rape
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Filo
Do you agree with the laws of this country?
If you do, under English law that girl could not give her consent to be married at 15.
Would you consider that law to apply if a 15 year old white, Anglo-Saxon Christian girl had been convinced through years of indoctrination to join a cult where she was offered to an older man to be "married"? Or would you say it was her free decision?
The "rape" thing is PRECISELY how we see the issue of rape in this country, under our law. Why should it not apply in this case?
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So if she stole something over there she’d not lose a hand ?
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What on earth has that got to do with it? We're talking about OUR legal system and OUR morals.
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Filo
Do you agree with the laws of this country?
If you do, under English law that girl could not give her consent to be married at 15.
Would you consider that law to apply if a 15 year old white, Anglo-Saxon Christian girl had been convinced through years of indoctrination to join a cult where she was offered to an older man to be "married"? Or would you say it was her free decision?
The "rape" thing is PRECISELY how we see the issue of rape in this country, under our law. Why should it not apply in this case?
I fully understand what you are saying, however she renounced the laws if this Country to go and live by Sharia law, the “rape” as we know it was comitted over there. The only issue with the term rape is the age of consent in this Country, she more than likely agreed for the Man or Men to have sex with her, she has n’t mention being raped and has stated that she loves her “husband” so the issue is under English Law it’s rape, under Sharia Law it is not. She turned her back on English Law when she went to join ISIS
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You're studiously avoiding the point I'm trying to make.
What would your response be if YOUR daughter had been indoctrinated by members of an overseas sex cult to join them and willingly give herself to an older man as a 15 year old, where sex with minors was legal.
Would you say that she went of her own accord and she lives with the consequences? Would you want to look at the case through the lens of English values or the values of that other country?
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Honestly, I would look through the lens of English values, but I would also be of the opinion that she made that choice and has to live by that choice, as much as it would destroy me
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It looks to me she was indoctrinated and persuaded to travel abroad as a minor. While she's been over there the indoctrination has probably continued, in which case that would be the reason she said the things she said. She is still a British citizen and should be allowed to travel home, where I'm sure her family are desperate to get her back. Now she should also be processed and prosecuted if she has has broken the law, and obviously she needs to be educated to undo everything she's been led to believe, and possibly "monitored" until she has been fully rehabilitated. That is what a responsible and civil government would do.
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If, as has been claimed, she was groomed into doing what she did, if she turned Queen's Evidence and helped convict those who groomed her (and therefore stopped them them doing the same to others) I'd leave it at that.
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I wonder if so many people would be willing to give someone a second chance if it was a man wanting to come back?
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My point was Billy that the law in such lands promotes marriage (and presumably consummation of marriage) at a younger age than UK
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It looks to me she was indoctrinated and persuaded to travel abroad as a minor. While she's been over there the indoctrination has probably continued, in which case that would be the reason she said the things she said. She is still a British citizen and should be allowed to travel home, where I'm sure her family are desperate to get her back. Now she should also be processed and prosecuted if she has has broken the law, and obviously she needs to be educated to undo everything she's been led to believe, and possibly "monitored" until she has been fully rehabilitated. That is what a responsible and civil government would do.
Ah, I see where the argument collapses.
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You're studiously avoiding the point I'm trying to make.
What would your response be if YOUR daughter had been indoctrinated by members of an overseas sex cult to join them and willingly give herself to an older man as a 15 year old, where sex with minors was legal.
Would you say that she went of her own accord and she lives with the consequences? Would you want to look at the case through the lens of English values or the values of that other country?
There are tens of thousands of Women who were taken to Pakistan by their loving parents aged 14 to have a 'Family Holiday' only to be married to their older male cousin into a life of sexual slavery and drudgery and numerous British governments have done naff all about it so why start now?
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Good point that sproty.
I don't see many of our public making a fuss about those girls, many of whom are probably born in the UK, being used.
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Sproty.
You got any evidence of tens of thousands of 14 year olds being taken to Pakistan and married off to cousins?
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Well actually I do have first hand knowledge and a lot of them were taken from good old Rotherham by the way.
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Tens of thousands?
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Yes just google. U.K. Forced marriages, Karma Nirvana receive 750 phone calls per month. There are plenty of articles from the sources you love to quote ie The Guardian fill yer boots.
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Tens of thousands of 14 year olds?
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Yeah, but that is only the UK figures.
Don’t forget this happens in the rest of Europe too.
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What are the UK figures? I've seen nowt yet but an unsubstantiated assertion by Sproty.
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What are the UK figures? I've seen nowt yet but an unsubstantiated assertion by Sproty.
I don’t know where he got the figures from but even if there are “only” hundreds, I don’t see many people condemning it.
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Personally, I condemn it unreservedly. The whole concept of forced marriage of any sort is reprehensible.
It also has nothing whatsoever to do with what I was talking about. Which, before it scuttled off down the rabbit hole that so many discussion do on here, was that even someone as sternly right-wing as Jacob Rees-Mogg was pointing out the legal issues associated with the case that we WERE discussing. Nothing more, nothing less.
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But do the government prosecute the husbands of the child brides of forced marriages when they come back to the UK.
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I've no idea. Do some research and let us know.
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I am very surprised that you didn’t post a link to prove that they do.
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As a citizen of the UK the government has a duty to assist her return to this country as it has for all citizens.
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I'm a perpetually surprising man. But you shouldn't be surprised at this. There's no reason for me to have posted anything about it because I'm not the one making wild claims.
That kind of how it works. If you make big claims, you really ought to know they are founded on facts. It's amazing what we can get done when we start from that simple premise.
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BST.
I was asking questions, not trying to prove anything.
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As a citizen of the UK the government has a duty to assist her return to this country as it has for all citizens.
But she chose not to be a UK citizen until she wants to come back bleeding the NHS dry, I’m sure we will pay her airfare and give her a house, new clothes, kit her out with sprog accessories and then welcome her Dutch husband over.
Oh and due to the publicity give her a new identity
F*cking parasite who needs her passport tearing up
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BST.
I was asking questions, not trying to prove anything.
Hound. There's an internet out there. Go and do some research.
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Here is an opinion from the Guardian, many here will disagree, how many commenting here read the original article or just read the headline?
If we don't bring our citizens home for examination/trial/rehab/punishment aren't we just leaving the mess for others to clear up, it's not like we have a spotless record for fueling wars in other countries is it. If Bush/Blair/Howard had not invaded Iraq under the cover of lies for an illegal war there may not have been an Isis. Who knows?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/14/the-guardian-view-on-shamima-begum-return-and-face-the-consequences
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You're studiously avoiding the point I'm trying to make.
What would your response be if YOUR daughter had been indoctrinated by members of an overseas sex cult to join them and willingly give herself to an older man as a 15 year old, where sex with minors was legal.
Would you say that she went of her own accord and she lives with the consequences? Would you want to look at the case through the lens of English values or the values of that other country?
what would you say if your son or daghter was fighting isis and this girl was part of the group that saw your son or daughter killed would you welcome her back then? Or would you say it’s ok she was forced into it?
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BST.
I was asking questions, not trying to prove anything.
Hound. There's an internet out there. Go and do some research.
BST, you are very condescending at times.
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A quote from the Iman of Peace - Iman Mohamad Tawhidi
Home is not where you want to be.
Home is where you belong.
You are already home
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BST.
I was asking questions, not trying to prove anything.
Hound. There's an internet out there. Go and do some research.
BST, you are very condescending at times.
And expecting others to do what you should do for yourself so they can spoonfeed it to you isn't?
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BST.
I was asking questions, not trying to prove anything.
Hound. There's an internet out there. Go and do some research.
BST, you are very condescending at times.
It comes from a frustration of seeing stupid comments bandied about as facts. Go back and look through thread after thread after thread on here and you see the same names posting bullshit that doesn't stand up to the slightest scrutiny.
There's no excuse for it. If you start of with bullshit "facts", you inevitably come up with stupid conclusions and opinions. If there's one thing the internet does, it's to bring information within everyone's grasp. Every one of us could do a bit of basic fact checking before forming opinions.
So, instead of making your posts at 9:40 and 10:01 last night, you COULD have gone and done some research.
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BST.
I was asking questions, not trying to prove anything.
Hound. There's an internet out there. Go and do some research.
BST, you are very condescending at times.
And expecting others to do what you should do for yourself so they can spoonfeed it to you isn't?
…. and you too are very condescending.
Worse than BST actually.
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BST.
I was asking questions, not trying to prove anything.
Hound. There's an internet out there. Go and do some research.
BST, you are very condescending at times.
It comes from a frustration of seeing stupid comments bandied about as facts. Go back and look through thread after thread after thread on here and you see the same names posting bullshit that doesn't stand up to the slightest scrutiny.
There's no excuse for it. If you start of with bullshit "facts", you inevitably come up with stupid conclusions and opinions. If there's one thing the internet does, it's to bring information within everyone's grasp. Every one of us could do a bit of basic fact checking before forming opinions.
So, instead of making your posts at 9:40 and 10:01 last night, you COULD have gone and done some research.
Judging by the amount of stuff you post finding out facts and posting links, you obviously have plenty of available time to do that.
I am afraid I don't have the desire or the time to do the same.
I guess I could have done some research but in all honesty I couldn't be arsed to do it.
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It's fine if you can't be arsed to do research, just don't post opinions and expect them to be taken as facts, especially now you have admitted basically you don't ever check your opinions.
Just because people have opinions, it doesn't mean they should be believed, shouldn't be criticised or even should be listened to.
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It's fine if you can't be arsed to do research, just don't post opinions and expect them to be taken as facts, especially now you have admitted basically you don't ever check your opinions.
Just because people have opinions, it doesn't mean they should be believed, shouldn't be criticised or even should be listened to.
Have you even bothered to read the thread bjw?
I haven’t posted anything that I have declared to be facts, I actually asked questions.
Maybe if you had bothered to have a look you would have seen as much.
Oh, and where did I say I don’t EVER check my opinions, however you do that.
If a poster says “in my opinion” is he wrong when he puts his point of view across.
For example, “in my opinion Marosi is better than Lawlor”, how can you check that.
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BST.
I was asking questions, not trying to prove anything.
Hound. There's an internet out there. Go and do some research.
BST, you are very condescending at times.
It comes from a frustration of seeing stupid comments bandied about as facts. Go back and look through thread after thread after thread on here and you see the same names posting bullshit that doesn't stand up to the slightest scrutiny.
There's no excuse for it. If you start of with bullshit "facts", you inevitably come up with stupid conclusions and opinions. If there's one thing the internet does, it's to bring information within everyone's grasp. Every one of us could do a bit of basic fact checking before forming opinions.
So, instead of making your posts at 9:40 and 10:01 last night, you COULD have gone and done some research.
Judging by the amount of stuff you post finding out facts and posting links, you obviously have plenty of available time to do that.
I am afraid I don't have the desire or the time to do the same.
I guess I could have done some research but in all honesty I couldn't be arsed to do it.
You can't be arsed but you expect others to be arsed on your behalf?
How condescending!
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BST.
I was asking questions, not trying to prove anything.
Hound. There's an internet out there. Go and do some research.
BST, you are very condescending at times.
It comes from a frustration of seeing stupid comments bandied about as facts. Go back and look through thread after thread after thread on here and you see the same names posting bullshit that doesn't stand up to the slightest scrutiny.
There's no excuse for it. If you start of with bullshit "facts", you inevitably come up with stupid conclusions and opinions. If there's one thing the internet does, it's to bring information within everyone's grasp. Every one of us could do a bit of basic fact checking before forming opinions.
So, instead of making your posts at 9:40 and 10:01 last night, you COULD have gone and done some research.
Judging by the amount of stuff you post finding out facts and posting links, you obviously have plenty of available time to do that.
I am afraid I don't have the desire or the time to do the same.
I guess I could have done some research but in all honesty I couldn't be arsed to do it.
You can't be arsed but you expect others to be arsed on your behalf?
How condescending!
There you go sticking your nose in again, this was a discussion between BST and DRFC hound, BST is quite capable of fighting his own corner, go crawl back into your hole.!
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BST.
I was asking questions, not trying to prove anything.
Hound. There's an internet out there. Go and do some research.
BST, you are very condescending at times.
It comes from a frustration of seeing stupid comments bandied about as facts. Go back and look through thread after thread after thread on here and you see the same names posting bullshit that doesn't stand up to the slightest scrutiny.
There's no excuse for it. If you start of with bullshit "facts", you inevitably come up with stupid conclusions and opinions. If there's one thing the internet does, it's to bring information within everyone's grasp. Every one of us could do a bit of basic fact checking before forming opinions.
So, instead of making your posts at 9:40 and 10:01 last night, you COULD have gone and done some research.
Judging by the amount of stuff you post finding out facts and posting links, you obviously have plenty of available time to do that.
I am afraid I don't have the desire or the time to do the same.
I guess I could have done some research but in all honesty I couldn't be arsed to do it.
You can't be arsed but you expect others to be arsed on your behalf?
How condescending!
Glyn, keep your nose out.
By the way, I never asked BST to do anything on my behalf either.
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The problem is she still wants to be with her husband she shows no remorse has no problem with beheadings as she thinks it’s islamically allowed,if she is allowed back she is going to have to be monitored for many years to come
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BST.
I was asking questions, not trying to prove anything.
Hound. There's an internet out there. Go and do some research.
BST, you are very condescending at times.
It comes from a frustration of seeing stupid comments bandied about as facts. Go back and look through thread after thread after thread on here and you see the same names posting bullshit that doesn't stand up to the slightest scrutiny.
There's no excuse for it. If you start of with bullshit "facts", you inevitably come up with stupid conclusions and opinions. If there's one thing the internet does, it's to bring information within everyone's grasp. Every one of us could do a bit of basic fact checking before forming opinions.
So, instead of making your posts at 9:40 and 10:01 last night, you COULD have gone and done some research.
Judging by the amount of stuff you post finding out facts and posting links, you obviously have plenty of available time to do that.
I am afraid I don't have the desire or the time to do the same.
I guess I could have done some research but in all honesty I couldn't be arsed to do it.
You can't be arsed but you expect others to be arsed on your behalf?
How condescending!
There you go sticking your nose in again, this was a discussion between BST and DRFC hound, BST is quite capable of fighting his own corner, go crawl back into your hole.!
I think it's quite funny that hound likes your post where you stick your nose in and fight his battle for him!
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The problem is she still wants to be with her husband she shows no remorse has no problem with beheadings as she thinks it’s islamically allowed,if she is allowed back she is going to have to be monitored for many years to come
Look at the situation where a young impressionable mother could be rehabilitated and her child allowed to grow up in an open society, at least one less terrorist in the making.
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That’s if it works Sydney if she comes back and she creates another terrorist in the U.K. which is prob just as likely. In her latest interview she says people should have sympathy for what she has been thru I don’t understand how she can say such things if she is serious
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That’s if it works Sydney if she comes back and she creates another terrorist in the U.K. which is prob just as likely. In her latest interview she says people should have sympathy for what she has been thru I don’t understand how she can say such things if she is serious
Rehab is more likely to work in the UK than where she is now don't you think bp.
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BST.
I was asking questions, not trying to prove anything.
Hound. There's an internet out there. Go and do some research.
BST, you are very condescending at times.
It comes from a frustration of seeing stupid comments bandied about as facts. Go back and look through thread after thread after thread on here and you see the same names posting bullshit that doesn't stand up to the slightest scrutiny.
There's no excuse for it. If you start of with bullshit "facts", you inevitably come up with stupid conclusions and opinions. If there's one thing the internet does, it's to bring information within everyone's grasp. Every one of us could do a bit of basic fact checking before forming opinions.
So, instead of making your posts at 9:40 and 10:01 last night, you COULD have gone and done some research.
Judging by the amount of stuff you post finding out facts and posting links, you obviously have plenty of available time to do that.
I am afraid I don't have the desire or the time to do the same.
I guess I could have done some research but in all honesty I couldn't be arsed to do it.
You can't be arsed but you expect others to be arsed on your behalf?
How condescending!
There you go sticking your nose in again, this was a discussion between BST and DRFC hound, BST is quite capable of fighting his own corner, go crawl back into your hole.!
I think it's quite funny that hound likes your post where you stick your nose in and fight his battle for him!
Pathetic.
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That’s if it works Sydney if she comes back and she creates another terrorist in the U.K. which is prob just as likely. In her latest interview she says people should have sympathy for what she has been thru I don’t understand how she can say such things if she is serious
Rehab is more likely to work in the UK than where she is now don't you think bp.
yes mate I think it is more likely to work here if rehab is what she wants, at the same time she is a lot less of a threat sat in Syria than in the U.K. if rehab does not work
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Would it be within her rights to say No No No?
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That’s if it works Sydney if she comes back and she creates another terrorist in the U.K. which is prob just as likely. In her latest interview she says people should have sympathy for what she has been thru I don’t understand how she can say such things if she is serious
Rehab is more likely to work in the UK than where she is now don't you think bp.
yes mate I think it is more likely to work here if rehab is what she wants, at the same time she is a lot less of a threat sat in Syria than in the U.K. if rehab does not work
We have a responsibility to look after our citizens no matter what they have done, she was lured from the UK to Syria we should have had the systems in place to help stop her. She may even be able to help with first hand information on how to reduce people being radicalised. I'm not sure that the UK can prevent her entry as a citizen. What we don't want is an angry child groing up to hate us and then doing something about it.
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She says she knew exactly what she was doing when she left so who has said she was lured? Jihadi John if he was still alive should we have had him back? Where do you draw the line?
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She says she knew exactly what she was doing when she left so who has said she was lured? Jihadi John if he was still alive should we have had him back? Where do you draw the line?
A bullet in the back of the head is too good for scum like this lot. As soon as this story broke I knew there would be a list of do-gooders a mile long sticking up for her.
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The government have announced that Shamima Begum is returning to the UK.
Cardiff FC are organizing the flight, the McCanns are offering to look after the baby, Diane Abbot has approved the funding, and Prince Philip is picking her up from the airport.
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Just a few of questions
How confident are we that as a 15 year old she was groomed and radicalised outside of the family environment?
Should she be allowed back into the Uk, she would probably be kept in a detention centre but would the child remain with her or go to her parents?
What nationality is the child?
Imagine the scenario in 16 - 20 years time your Mother is a detained wife of a terrorist, your father is/was an ISIS fighter how do you feel about the UK?
Has anyone asked the question of the family, you live in UK but where do you class as being your home country?
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And you think she will only create one more terrorist - she ain’t gonna stop at one.
Axholme has some radical views but I’m on his side here
How about we allow her back in the country if she carry’s out the beheadings of Lee Rigby’s killers
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Just a few of questions
How confident are we that as a 15 year old she was groomed and radicalised outside of the family environment?
Should she be allowed back into the Uk, she would probably be kept in a detention centre but would the child remain with her or go to her parents?
What nationality is the child?
Imagine the scenario in 16 - 20 years time your Mother is a detained wife of a terrorist, your father is/was an ISIS fighter how do you feel about the UK?
Has anyone asked the question of the family, you live in UK but where do you class as being your home country?
Sorry but at 15 years old she was not a child, but a person already indoctrinated into hatred of the ZuK and our libertine ways she made her own choice to seek out DAesh now she made her bed she needs to lay on it, it is not the fault of the UK that she has already lost 2 children , it is her own doing and it is not doubt Allah punishing her for sins against her religion.
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First up she should not be denied her rights as a citizen to return to the UK, secondly if she can get to any embassy the staff have a duty to assist her, why should the UK as proven war mongers and suppliers of arms to dictatorships abrogate our responsibilities to others, fourthly I like NNK's answer to the problem.
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Just a few of questions
How confident are we that as a 15 year old she was groomed and radicalised outside of the family environment?
Should she be allowed back into the Uk, she would probably be kept in a detention centre but would the child remain with her or go to her parents?
What nationality is the child?
Imagine the scenario in 16 - 20 years time your Mother is a detained wife of a terrorist, your father is/was an ISIS fighter how do you feel about the UK?
Has anyone asked the question of the family, you live in UK but where do you class as being your home country?
Sorry but at 15 years old she was not a child, but a person already indoctrinated into hatred of the ZuK and our libertine ways she made her own choice to seek out DAesh now she made her bed she needs to lay on it, it is not the fault of the UK that she has already lost 2 children , it is her own doing and it is not doubt Allah punishing her for sins against her religion.
Why quote my post Sproty? I don't see an attempt to offer an answer to any of the points, and I didn't say she was a child, the question was whether or not the family were involved for part/all of the radicalisation of a 15 year old
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And you think she will only create one more terrorist - she ain’t gonna stop at one.
Axholme has some radical views but I’m on his side here
How about we allow her back in the country if she carry’s out the beheadings of Lee Rigby’s killers
Unfortunately no-one seems to care about the likes of Lee Rigby because he doesn't fit the pc agenda of white working class equals bad...
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Talking of research,pictures have come to light of her mistreating bound prisoners..Her father has form with Anjem Choudary,i'm sorry people can argue all day long on this but it's just another case of these people fighting against us,telling us how bad are system is and the there way is the promised land..
Until of course the crap hit's the fan,then suddenly its our job to show forgiveness and call them victims..Well I'm sorry but I'm not in a forgiving mood on this one and I wouldn't want her back full stop but if the law says we have to then fine, by all means bring her back,put her in court then lock her up for as long as we can....
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Wing Co.
Yes. If there is evidence of crime then we go through due process.
We are duty bound to accept her back into the country. And if there is evidence of criminality, she should be prosecuted fully.
This isn't about her. It's much bigger than that. It's about whether our committment to law over-rides our instinct to go with mob justice.
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Yes I'm with you BST... In my heart I want mob justice,i dont want her back as far as I'm concerned she's lost that right and I'm not going lie and say any different...
However you are spot on, we live by a set of laws which you cant pick and choose from to suit your own opinion..So if the law states she has that right then so be it
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Wing Co.
Yes. If there is evidence of crime then we go through due process.
We are duty bound to accept her back into the country. And if there is evidence of criminality, she should be prosecuted fully.
This isn't about her. It's much bigger than that. It's about whether our committment to law over-rides our instinct to go with mob justice.
I'll remember that the next time I see an ex serviceman with their arms and legs blown off fighting terrorists...
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I am a ex servicemen and when I was put in situations of danger I did that representing my nation and the laws that it beholds,i don't always agree with them (like this one) but you cant pick and choose or set precedents based on public opinion..
With luck they should find out enough about her activities so when she does come back she can face the British Justice system....
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I am a ex servicemen and when I was put in situations of danger I did that representing my nation and the laws that it beholds,i don't always agree with them (like this one) but you cant pick and choose or set precedents based on public opinion..
With luck they should find out enough about her activities so when she does come back she can face the British Justice system....
The thing is though even if she gets some porridge it's not going to be Devil's Island is it? A short stretch in an open prison and then back out into the public and on the benefits gravy train.
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https://petition.parliament.uk/signatures/55960080/signed
signed
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https://petition.parliament.uk/signatures/55960080/signed
signed
Sign as much as you like, the law is the law; international law is international law. It may let you vent your frustration, but it won't change a thing in this instance.
Oh, and there are quite a few people who have already 'returned' to the UK.
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https://petition.parliament.uk/signatures/55960080/signed
signed
Sign as much as you like, the law is the law; international law is international law. It may let you vent your frustration, but it won't change a thing in this instance.
Oh, and there are quite a few people who have already 'returned' to the UK.
I know they have. It's good to know the powers that be are more concerned with looking after murdering terrorist scum than the welfare of Joe Public the hard working tax payer. I'll bet the families of the Manchester bombing are thrilled by the handling of this matter.
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Theres an island off the coast of Scotland uninhabited and infected with anthrax, she can be repatriated and live there, problem solved
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I'll bet the families of the Manchester bombing are thrilled by the handling of this matter.
No-one is thrilled with the situation - yet again you aren't listening.
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What We don't have to do is assist her return with no consular facilities in the area, thankfully
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Will she be given anonymity? Should people who end up living near her be aware that there's a terrorist sympathiser (to put it mildly) in their district? Is it more important to protect her child than it is our children?
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https://petition.parliament.uk/signatures/55960080/signed
signed
Sign as much as you like, the law is the law; international law is international law. It may let you vent your frustration, but it won't change a thing in this instance.
Oh, and there are quite a few people who have already 'returned' to the UK.
I know they have. It's good to know the powers that be are more concerned with looking after murdering terrorist scum than the welfare of Joe Public the hard working tax payer. I'll bet the families of the Manchester bombing are thrilled by the handling of this matter.
No, the powers that be are concerned with upholding both national and international law. Neither more, nor less.
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Will she be given anonymity? Should people who end up living near her be aware that there's a terrorist sympathiser (to put it mildly) in their district? Is it more important to protect her child than it is our children?
Every chance BB; after all, we're not allowed to know that one of the most dangerous paedophile child killers in this country, Jon Venables, could be living amongst OUR children and grandchildren. That's how f*cking stupid our politically correct laws are.
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She has had her uk citizenship removed
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https://petition.parliament.uk/signatures/55960080/signed
signed
Sign as much as you like, the law is the law; international law is international law. It may let you vent your frustration, but it won't change a thing in this instance.
Oh, and there are quite a few people who have already 'returned' to the UK.
I know they have. It's good to know the powers that be are more concerned with looking after murdering terrorist scum than the welfare of Joe Public the hard working tax payer. I'll bet the families of the Manchester bombing are thrilled by the handling of this matter.
Time to eat your words perhaps?
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Will she be given anonymity? Should people who end up living near her be aware that there's a terrorist sympathiser (to put it mildly) in their district? Is it more important to protect her child than it is our children?
Every chance BB; after all, we're not allowed to know that one of the most dangerous paedophile child killers in this country, Jon Venables, could be living amongst OUR children and grandchildren. That's how f*cking stupid our politically correct laws are.
I know where he is. He's in prison.
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She has had her uk citizenship removed
No obligation to bring her back now.
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She has had her uk citizenship removed
Well done.?
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So we cannot leave her stateless by law so which country is she covered by?
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BAngladesh
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So we cannot leave her stateless by law so which country is she covered by?
Perhaps she has duel nationality with having Bangladeshi parents
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The whole episode is a shame hopefully by not allowing her back it will put other youngsters off going
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Will she be given anonymity? Should people who end up living near her be aware that there's a terrorist sympathiser (to put it mildly) in their district? Is it more important to protect her child than it is our children?
Every chance BB; after all, we're not allowed to know that one of the most dangerous paedophile child killers in this country, Jon Venables, could be living amongst OUR children and grandchildren. That's how f*cking stupid our politically correct laws are.
I know where he is. He's in prison.
And why is the evil scumbag bas**rd in prison? Did you know where he was before he was sent to prison last February? Do you know where he will be next February? Can we be convinced he's still in prison now?
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https://petition.parliament.uk/signatures/55960080/signed
signed
It looks like that petition may have had some influence.
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Anyone born to a Bangladeshi parent is automatically a citizen of Bangladesh
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https://petition.parliament.uk/signatures/55960080/signed
signed
Sign as much as you like, the law is the law; international law is international law. It may let you vent your frustration, but it won't change a thing in this instance.
Oh, and there are quite a few people who have already 'returned' to the UK.
It might have had an influence Kato.
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I think the government no that the majority of people didn’t want her back, by doing this if she appeals it will be to a court so it’s taken out of there hands
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https://petition.parliament.uk/signatures/55960080/signed
signed
Sign as much as you like, the law is the law; international law is international law. It may let you vent your frustration, but it won't change a thing in this instance.
Oh, and there are quite a few people who have already 'returned' to the UK.
It might have had an influence Kato.
As I understand it the Home Secretary has taken legal advice, as is the correct thing to do. That advice seems to have been that if she has dual citizenship then her UK citizenship can be revoked. As I said, the law is the law; international law is international law. They are the deciding factors, not a lot of signatures.
This has happened previously with ISIS supporters from the UK, one of which has won his appeal against the decision - i.e. proved that he did not have dual citizenship.
The government has advised her family that she too has the right of appeal against a similar decision. One can only hope that if she does appeal the legal advice and information regarding her status that the government received was accurate and her appeal will fail, but again, the law is the law and any appeal decision will be based on facts and not signatures.
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The expert legal opinion on the radio this morning was that there's not a chance in hell that the decision to revoke her British citizenship will survive appeal.
But that's not the point though is it. There's an entirely different reason why her citizenship was revoked yesterday.
This is now about Sajid Javid positioning himself to be the next PM when May finally goes.
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The expert legal opinion on the radio this morning was that there's not a chance in hell that the decision to revoke her British citizenship will survive appeal.
But that's not the point though is it. There's an entirely different reason why her citizenship was revoked yesterday.
This is now about Sajid Javid positioning himself to be the next PM when May finally goes.
Exactly. He can say "I was that one that tried to make sure this terrorist didn't come back"
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https://mobile.twitter.com/BarristerSecret/status/1098139734176686080
I'm sure yesterday was just an oversight by Javid.
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https://petition.parliament.uk/signatures/55960080/signed
signed
Sign as much as you like, the law is the law; international law is international law. It may let you vent your frustration, but it won't change a thing in this instance.
Oh, and there are quite a few people who have already 'returned' to the UK.
It might have had an influence Kato.
As I understand it the Home Secretary has taken legal advice, as is the correct thing to do. That advice seems to have been that if she has dual citizenship then her UK citizenship can be revoked. As I said, the law is the law; international law is international law. They are the deciding factors, not a lot of signatures.
This has happened previously with ISIS supporters from the UK, one of which has won his appeal against the decision - i.e. proved that he did not have dual citizenship.
The government has advised her family that she too has the right of appeal against a similar decision. One can only hope that if she does appeal the legal advice and information regarding her status that the government received was accurate and her appeal will fail, but again, the law is the law and any appeal decision will be based on facts and not signatures.
No disagreement from me on any of that.
Any petition delivered to the government with more than 100,000 signatures has to be reviewed by the government.
As this particular one has around 500,000 signatures, all I was saying is that it might have had an influence.
There is a strong public opinion against her coming back here.
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The Home Sec has done the decent thing regardless of the final outcome. I'm sure some slimeball lawyer will do their best to get her off. Probably the same sort of lawyer who prosecute British soldiers for so called war crimes. At least the bleeding hearts can't accuse him of racism.
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The expert legal opinion on the radio this morning was that there's not a chance in hell that the decision to revoke her British citizenship will survive appeal.
But that's not the point though is it. There's an entirely different reason why her citizenship was revoked yesterday.
This is now about Sajid Javid positioning himself to be the next PM when May finally goes.
Definitely a political decision (the right one btw) and May would have done the same when it was her decision. However it doesn't appear to be clearly legal. It's not an easy one, but frankly the popular decision is the easy bit.
I think she's got a cheek to be honest and should be thrown in a cell for a very long time, but the law is the law.
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I just wonder what the reaction would have been if it was a 15 year old white girl gone to join a murderous cult abroad, who then, after possibly being raped a couple of times, giving birth twice and both her kids being killed, gets pregnant again and decides she and the baby might be better off at home.
This girl is surrounded by other muslims, probably former ISIS fighters still dedicated to the cause, meaning she can't renounce ISIS or complain about anything publicly. Is that not a strong possibility?
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I just wonder what the reaction would have been if it was a 15 year old white girl gone to join a murderous cult abroad, who then, after possibly being raped a couple of times, giving birth twice and both her kids being killed, gets pregnant again and decides she and the baby might be better off at home.
This girl is surrounded by other muslims, probably former ISIS fighters still dedicated to the cause, meaning she can't renounce ISIS or complain about anything publicly. Is that not a strong possibility?
I wouldn’t want her back in this country either
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I just wonder what the reaction would have been if it was a 15 year old white girl gone to join a murderous cult abroad, who then, after possibly being raped a couple of times, giving birth twice and both her kids being killed, gets pregnant again and decides she and the baby might be better off at home.
This girl is surrounded by other muslims, probably former ISIS fighters still dedicated to the cause, meaning she can't renounce ISIS or complain about anything publicly. Is that not a strong possibility? I wouldnt want her back either it’s nothing to do with colour or race it’s the fact she has shown no remorse still wants to be with her Isis fighting husband
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I just wonder what the reaction would have been if it was a 15 year old white girl gone to join a murderous cult abroad, who then, after possibly being raped a couple of times, giving birth twice and both her kids being killed, gets pregnant again and decides she and the baby might be better off at home.
This girl is surrounded by other muslims, probably former ISIS fighters still dedicated to the cause, meaning she can't renounce ISIS or complain about anything publicly. Is that not a strong possibility?
Who says she was raped, who’s saying that her kids were “killed”.
Black, white, yellow or green........for me, I wouldn’t want her back in this country.
Her attitude to the Manchester bombing is atrocious.
Let her stay with her IS bloke.
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It appears that the husband is Dutch so does that make the child Dutch? Regarding her nationality at 21 her Bangla deshi citizenship automatically lapses if she has dual nationality, as she is under 21 she would have a bit of a problem fighting the Governments decision to strip her of UK citizenship as she is not stateless
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I dare say that despite the Home Secretary's pronouncement it might be difficult legally to stop Begum coming back to the UK and claiming citizenship. However I think it would be a bad thing for community cohesion if she does return. I can imagine Tommy Robinson having a field day, especially if the Left try to portray her as some kind of victim / heroine.
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The only person if heard describing her as a victim is Jacob Rees-Mogg on QT last week. Pick the bones out of that.
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Course, he could be playing a canny game there...
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Something's really been bugging me about Javid's statement. Someone on the radio crystallised it tonight.
Javid said we could revoke her British citizenship and that wouldn't leave her stateless. Presumably meaning she could take out Bangladeshi citizenship.
Just stop and think what that implies.
She was born, raised and radicalised in Britain. Javid is saying we can wash our hands of her and let a country which she had never so much as visited deal with the problem. And according to a Bangladeshi Govt spokesman today, he hasn't so much as lifted the phone to discuss that with them.
That's not what responsible politicians do. That's how Empires treat colonies. Whatever you think of what she has done, she is legally and morally OUR problem to deal with.
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The only person if heard describing her as a victim is Jacob Rees-Mogg on QT last week. Pick the bones out of that.
You should have seen Sky News the other day. I thought I was listening to the life story of Joan of Arc.
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Well she probably will be burnt at the stake if she comes back here.
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So she comes back and has some part to play in a terrorist attack where kids die (unlikely but possible) where would your morals stand with that?
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She is used as a poster girl for Jihadists to show the next generation how amoral The West is. Some kid buys into that, is radicalised and blows himself up in Trafalgar Square on New Year's Eve.
Where's YOUR morals with that?
f**king hard isn't it?
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So you know what’s going on in her head do you did 1 of your f...ing experts tell you that 2, your not always right bst people are allowed 2 disagree with you and on this subject I would hazard a guess you are in the minority is that fu..ing hard to understand?
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Was she used a poster girl when she started watching the beheading videoes? She was attaractef to isis by watching them(her words not mine) she does not regret joining them, she will wait in hope for her husband and stay with him, maybe in your little world we could invite him to the country to, f..k me boris Johnson said about the post boxes and you wanted him hung drawn and quartered just like most things bst I’m sure this is a way for you to score political points
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No Bpool
My point is that it's a difficult world. With hard decisions to make.
You gave a simple, 1-D example of what might happen. That would be a horrific tragedy if it did happen.
I gave another one, equally plausible. And that, too, would be a horrific tragedy if it happened.
It's genuinely f**king hard to get these things right. There are many possible outcomes.
Back in the early 70s, our Govt's reaction to terrorism in Northern Ireland was to send troops into the back streets in the middle of the night, drag hundreds of young Catholic suspects out of their beds and put them in internment camps without trial.
They put the law on hold because they had to to sort the problem out. Stop people being shot and blown up.
That was a sensible approach, no?
Actually, no it wasn't. It radicalised an entire generation. The violence went on for nearly 30 years. 3000 people were killed.
It's REALLY hard to get these things right.
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Well she probably will be burnt at the stake if she comes back here.
She's not coming back, apparently she's been offered a house in Blackpool..........................but has chosen to stay in Syria.
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If it's the case that the government has been infuenced by public outrage to help them make their decision then thank god for those who expressed their disgust.
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Just seen on tv that Corbyn says that Begum should be allowed to come back to the UK.
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Bentley. Are you saying the Govt should arbitrarily abrogate international law because fewer than 1% of the population have signed a petition?
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Just seen on tv that Corbyn says that Begum should be allowed to come back to the UK.
If there's any doubt about his ability to run the country, then that pearl of wisdom will hammer any final nail in that coffin.
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Bentley. Are you saying the Govt should arbitrarily abrogate international law because fewer than 1% of the population have signed a petition?
No
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Right. Glad we cleared that up.
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"We" didn't clear that up. I did.
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https://twitter.com/bankruptspurs/status/1099370775864328194
Pochettino has strong feelings about it.
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What do they do? Send them to Mansfield?
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https://twitter.com/bankruptspurs/status/1099370775864328194
Pochettino has strong feelings about it.
That is British comedy genius at its finest.
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''Shamima Begum: baby son dies in Syrian refugee camp''
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/mar/08/shamima-begum-confusion-after-reports-newborn-son-may-have-died
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I doubt if there ever was a baby. It was probably someone else's kid using it or a doll to get into the country.
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As trolls go, you're really not very good at this are you?
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As trolls go, you're really not very good at this are you?
Serious comment. I mean how do we know?
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The very fact you're asking the question speaks volumes about the moral universe you inhabit.
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As trolls go, you're really not very good at this are you?
Serious comment. I mean how do we know?
I don't know, how do we know it was a serious comment?
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Axholme is fishing again, however, what he says is something that I've seen repeated hundreds of times over the last few days. But I suppose it's not surprising given how the Javid used the issue to puff his chest out for a leadership contest.