Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: SydneyRover on May 21, 2019, 12:23:13 pm
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Brexiters if you only open and read one link before the vote make it this one, you might just learn a lot.
''The former Ukip leader forged an alliance with the Five Star Movement just as they bulldozed Italian politics using a tightly controlled digital operation. And now he’s putting their techniques to work in Britain. By Darren Loucaides''
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/21/brexit-party-nigel-farage-italy-digital-populists-five-star-movement
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Brexiters if you only open and read one link before the vote make it this one, you might just learn a lot.
''The former Ukip leader forged an alliance with the Five Star Movement just as they bulldozed Italian politics using a tightly controlled digital operation. And now he’s putting their techniques to work in Britain. By Darren Loucaides''
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/21/brexit-party-nigel-farage-italy-digital-populists-five-star-movement
If it's in the Guardian it will be a load of lefty twaddle. Bring on Thursday.
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Leavers acting like ostriches? well I never...
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Leavers acting like ostriches? well I never...
Who were the ostriches on the day of the referendum Bob? Because somehow you lot seemed to miss the result.
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It’s politics 2019 style - time for change, we were gating stale and boring.
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Brexit party all the way.
Arise sir nigel
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I’m so excited come on come on you’ll like it
Vote for Brexit party No 10 Nigel’s den.
The loony lefties need tissues. Sorry my first post
Is too sensible for you remainers.
So looking forward to building my fan club from the left
Narcissistic lot
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it actually beggars all belief, that so many people have been so easily been brainwashed by these muli millionaires, that they think they are on their side , and will vote for a party with no manifesto , knowing it will make ordinary people worse off. Farage and co. must be p1ssing themselves as they let these mugs make them even richer.
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it actually beggars all belief, that so many people have been so easily been brainwashed by these muli millionaires, that they think they are on their side , and will vote for a party with no manifesto , knowing it will make ordinary people worse off. Farage and co. must be p1ssing themselves as they let these mugs make them even richer.
Yes
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As someone who believes we should leave the EU it pains me each and every day that this man, and his party, are the ‘face’ of us leaving the EU.
The fact that normally right minded people are willing to support a man who would quite gladly sell our NHS is a constant source of sadness and confusion to me.
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Sarah O'Callaghan #PeoplesVote 🇮🇪 🇪🇺 🏳️🌈 @LeopoldStotch32 · May 21
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Sarah O'Callaghan #PeoplesVote 🇮🇪 🇪🇺 🏳️🌈 @LeopoldStotch32
Follow Follow @LeopoldStotch32
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Sarah O'Callaghan #PeoplesVote 🇮🇪 🇪🇺 🏳️🌈 @LeopoldStotch32 · May 21
Vote for #Farage and get this. This man is Crispin Odey. He bankrolled #VoteLeave and made 220m when leave won by shorting the pound. Farage helped the markets to fluctuate when he 'conceded' the referendum early. You are being used to fill their pockets. #BrexitParty #EUElection
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So the Brexit Party believe MEP's are overpaid, a waste of time and money and Britain should have no part in the EU parliament, but their leader wants us to vote for him and his colleagues so they can earn over 100,000 Euros a year "doing a job" they wished never existed, and that they actually don't want to do...... f*cking genius or what.
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So the Brexit Party believe MEP's are overpaid, a waste of time and money and Britain should have no part in the EU parliament, but their leader wants us to vote for him and his colleagues so they can earn over 100,000 Euros a year "doing a job" they wished never existed, and that they actually don't want to do...... f*cking genius or what.
Farage lied again to to British public when he said he was broke but had received 450K from that other liar Banks. Farage has been an EMP for 20 years that's around 2mill and yet the EU had to order him to refund the misuse of allowances, he's also earned around 770K for public speaking, why would you vote for a ferret that can't handle and lies about his own accounts.
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As someone who believes we should leave the EU it pains me each and every day that this man, and his party, are the ‘face’ of us leaving the EU.
The fact that normally right minded people are willing to support a man who would quite gladly sell our NHS is a constant source of sadness and confusion to me.
HA
This is what I don't get about left wing Brexiters like you.
I understand your arguments about the EU restricting stronger socialist policies. I get that.
But do you REALLY think that supporting Brexit now, in these conditions, is likely to result in us having a stronger economy and socialist government any time in the medium term future?
Does your desire for (what you see as) the best solution (I disagree that it's best, but that's irrelevant) mean that you are prepared to be a fellow traveller with the Farages and Bankss and Rees-Moggs and Johnsons in facilitating the Brexit that THEY want?
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As someone who believes we should leave the EU it pains me each and every day that this man, and his party, are the ‘face’ of us leaving the EU.
The fact that normally right minded people are willing to support a man who would quite gladly sell our NHS is a constant source of sadness and confusion to me.
HA
This is what I don't get about left wing Brexiters like you.
I understand your arguments about the EU restricting stronger socialist policies. I get that.
But do you REALLY think that supporting Brexit now, in these conditions, is likely to result in us having a stronger economy and socialist government any time in the medium term future?
Does your desire for (what you see as) the best solution (I disagree that it's best, but that's irrelevant) mean that you are prepared to be a fellow traveller with the Farages and Bankss and Rees-Moggs and Johnsons in facilitating the Brexit that THEY want?
BST,
Well...you do make a fair point there, I have to be honest. Brexit has undoubtedly been taken over by the extreme right wing and I really don’t like it. It is an uncomfortable truth for me, and those like me, that the Brexit I hoped for isn’t going to happen unless we have a GE very soon. To answer your specific point, I’m not comfortable at all with being seen as a bed fellow of Farage etc. Unfortunately Labour lost out on being seen as the party to deliver Brexit for a number of reasons. Even though I feel Keir Starmer has done a good job, internal wranglings meant that labour has been seen as indecisive. Consequently they’ve lost support from remainers AND leavers. Knowing what I do know I really don’t know whether I’d vote to leave again...which is quite painful considering I’d argued to leave the EU for a number of years prior to 2016. Equally, though I’ve not seen or heard anything that had changed my view of the EU.
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HA.
I appreciate that answer. One of the clearest and most thoughtful ones I've seen in the many pages of these discussions.
Personally, I do share some of your concerns from the Left about the EU. The way the response to the Great Recessions was handled by the EU was appalling. The 3% deficit limit is stupid.
But these are nowhere near big enough reasons to cut ourselves off from the EU in my opinion. And certainly not for the inevitable boost that Brexit would give to the far-Right here and across Europe that would be inevitable in the current climate.
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Mike Harding #FBPE @HardingMike · 8h8 hours ago
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3 yrs ago -17.4 mill voted Leave 16.1 mill voted Remain. The 16 mill have been abused, called "remoaners and traitors, queue jumpers and citizens of nowhere." The BBC have largely ignored them and the Tory Press have vilified them. The 17.4 mill are in meltdown. Stay strong.
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Not quite accurate to say that 17.4m are in meltdown. 1m of them HAVE been cremated though.
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I’m so excited come on come on you’ll like it
Vote for Brexit party No 10 Nigel’s den.
The loony lefties need tissues. Sorry my first post
Is too sensible for you remainers.
So looking forward to building my fan club from the left
Narcissistic lot
Alright Mick, would love to say you've been missed.
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Not quite accurate to say that 17.4m are in meltdown. 1m of them HAVE been cremated though.
Your views on old people are repugnant.
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SS.
The 1m figure, more or less, is a fact. No escaping that.
As for my grim sense of humour, well death comes to all of us. I treasure the older people in my life and I've lost enough of them over the years to know how heartbreaking that is. But it happens. I find it best to keep a twinkle in your eye while you're here. My old grandad who was the finest man I've ever known used to say "Put me in a bag and chuck me in the Don when I'm done. And get on with your life." He'd have laughed his arse off at the thought of anyone wearing sackcloth and ashes.
If I was being vindictive against a PARTICULAR old person, just for being old, I'd agree with you. That would be repugnant.
But I'm not. And I wouldn't. Ever.
I'm making light of the general concept of our limited time on earth. There's not really much alternative in my opinion.
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Not quite accurate to say that 17.4m are in meltdown. 1m of them HAVE been cremated though.
Your views on old people are repugnant.
Why?
It's not like he said they smell of free food and p#ss
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Not quite accurate to say that 17.4m are in meltdown. 1m of them HAVE been cremated though.
Your views on old people are repugnant.
Why?
It's not like he said they smell of free food and p#ss
Thanks for that Iberian, because we now know the mindset of who we're arguing against. Apart from lacking the grace to be magnanimous in defeat, and stamping your feet like spoilt children, you've now taken to insulting the elderly; and you've all got the temerity to criticise Nigel Farage.
All this just shows that you know you're losing the battle.
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Not quite accurate to say that 17.4m are in meltdown. 1m of them HAVE been cremated though.
Your views on old people are repugnant.
Why?
It's not like he said they smell of free food and p#ss
Thanks for that Iberian, because we now know the mindset of who we're arguing against. Apart from lacking the grace to be magnanimous in defeat, and stamping your feet like spoilt children, you've now taken to insulting the elderly; and you've all got the temerity to criticise Nigel Farage.
All this just shows that you know you're losing the battle.
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Not quite accurate to say that 17.4m are in meltdown. 1m of them HAVE been cremated though.
Your views on old people are repugnant.
Why?
It's not like he said they smell of free food and p#ss
Thanks for that Iberian, because we now know the mindset of who we're arguing against. Apart from lacking the grace to be magnanimous in defeat, and stamping your feet like spoilt children, you've now taken to insulting the elderly; and you've all got the temerity to criticise Nigel Farage.
All this just shows that you know you're losing the battle.
It's been many,many years since I've been called a child. I dont discriminate against age,however respect is something you earn,it doesn't come with age If someone has repugnant views,they are repugnant,therefore you are.
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Not quite accurate to say that 17.4m are in meltdown. 1m of them HAVE been cremated though.
Your views on old people are repugnant.
Why?
It's not like he said they smell of free food and p#ss
Thanks for that Iberian, because we now know the mindset of who we're arguing against. Apart from lacking the grace to be magnanimous in defeat, and stamping your feet like spoilt children, you've now taken to insulting the elderly; and you've all got the temerity to criticise Nigel Farage.
All this just shows that you know you're losing the battle.
It's been many,many years since I've been called a child. I dont discriminate against age,however respect is something you earn,it doesn't come with age If someone has repugnant views,they are repugnant,therefore you are.
???
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Not quite accurate to say that 17.4m are in meltdown. 1m of them HAVE been cremated though.
Your views on old people are repugnant.
Why?
It's not like he said they smell of free food and p#ss
Thanks for that Iberian, because we now know the mindset of who we're arguing against. Apart from lacking the grace to be magnanimous in defeat, and stamping your feet like spoilt children, you've now taken to insulting the elderly; and you've all got the temerity to criticise Nigel Farage.
All this just shows that you know you're losing the battle.
It's been many,many years since I've been called a child. I dont discriminate against age,however respect is something you earn,it doesn't come with age If someone has repugnant views,they are repugnant,therefore you are.
???
Have you tried glasses at. It could be an age thing.
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Not quite accurate to say that 17.4m are in meltdown. 1m of them HAVE been cremated though.
Your views on old people are repugnant.
Why?
It's not like he said they smell of free food and p#ss
Thanks for that Iberian, because we now know the mindset of who we're arguing against. Apart from lacking the grace to be magnanimous in defeat, and stamping your feet like spoilt children, you've now taken to insulting the elderly; and you've all got the temerity to criticise Nigel Farage.
All this just shows that you know you're losing the battle.
It's been many,many years since I've been called a child. I dont discriminate against age,however respect is something you earn,it doesn't come with age If someone has repugnant views,they are repugnant,therefore you are.
???
Have you tried glasses at. It could be an age thing.
Yeah, similar to you talking gobbledegook most of the time.
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Not quite accurate to say that 17.4m are in meltdown. 1m of them HAVE been cremated though.
Your views on old people are repugnant.
Why?
It's not like he said they smell of free food and p#ss
Thanks for that Iberian, because we now know the mindset of who we're arguing against. Apart from lacking the grace to be magnanimous in defeat, and stamping your feet like spoilt children, you've now taken to insulting the elderly; and you've all got the temerity to criticise Nigel Farage.
All this just shows that you know you're losing the battle.
It's been many,many years since I've been called a child. I dont discriminate against age,however respect is something you earn,it doesn't come with age If someone has repugnant views,they are repugnant,therefore you are.
???
Have you tried glasses at. It could be an age thing.
Yeah, similar to you talking gobbledegook most of the time.
Great comeback SS!
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I can smell your vote from here!
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BST, do you see the responsibility you have as one of the more educated members of this forum, in respect of duty in leadership? A duty that doesn't encourage the lesser educated of your supporters to follow your unsavoury points and taking them to an even lower level of acceptance?
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Are the elderly brexiteers aware that Werthers original are German?
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Been wondering this evening why I find this debate so depressing.
Then it hit me.
There's some clever folk in here on both sides of the argument. But there's a difference in the way they argue.
Yes, folk on both sides, me included, get a bit narky sometimes. But there's a reasonably consistent theme on the Remain side: presentation of facts; presentation of logical conclusions from facts; refutation of assertions that don't measure up to the facts.
On the Leave side, there are also regular themes: Whataboutery (Well don't criticise US because YOU did...); refusing to engage in exchange of ideas, preferring to keep repeating opinions rather than take on the central ideas put forward by the other side; eagerness to point out unpleasantness on the other side but apparent unawareness of the same things from themselves.
I'd been getting quite depressed, thinking this is what Brexit had done to us. Then I stumbled on this
https://theinterfaceofdataandlife.wordpress.com/2016/01/05/the-pyramid-of-disagreement-a-critical-tool-for-analyzing-arguments/
Looks like it's a wider human thing. Folk are just at different stages of development when it comes to discussing and arguing.
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Unfortunately Billy, and this is where I have a great deal of sympathy for the leavers, there are only two facts that matter:
a majority of people voted to leave
Parliament is unable to agree on the terms of leaving
yes you can argue about the size of the majority, the economic consequences, freedom of movement, what the leave side promised but can never deliver - all these are reasons for not holding the referendum in the first place or if it it was going to be held making it a super majority (say 55-45).
Because we are now where we are and that is what Farage has tapped into. He doesn't have any answers to the questions, just slogans to con people, but I fear it will get worse before it gets better.
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Unfortunately Billy, and this is where I have a great deal of sympathy for the leavers, there are only two facts that matter:
a majority of people voted to leave
Parliament is unable to agree on the terms of leaving
yes you can argue about the size of the majority, the economic consequences, freedom of movement, what the leave side promised but can never deliver - all these are reasons for not holding the referendum in the first place or if it it was going to be held making it a super majority (say 55-45).
Because we are now where we are and that is what Farage has tapped into. He doesn't have any answers to the questions, just slogans to con people, but I fear it will get worse before it gets better.
And yet Wilts when you think there's little to smile about a rainbow appears .................
''EU fraud watchdog considering Nigel Farage investigation''
''The European Union’s anti-fraud watchdog is considering whether Nigel Farage should be investigated for any illegal activity over lavish payment from Arron Banks, the Guardian has learned''
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/25/eu-watchdog-considering-nigel-farage-investigation-arron-banks
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Unfortunately Billy, and this is where I have a great deal of sympathy for the leavers, there are only two facts that matter:
a majority of people voted to leave
Parliament is unable to agree on the terms of leaving
yes you can argue about the size of the majority, the economic consequences, freedom of movement, what the leave side promised but can never deliver - all these are reasons for not holding the referendum in the first place or if it it was going to be held making it a super majority (say 55-45).
Because we are now where we are and that is what Farage has tapped into. He doesn't have any answers to the questions, just slogans to con people, but I fear it will get worse before it gets better.
You've hit the nail right on the head there Wilts. The referendum should never have been held in the first place. Nobody was interested and David Cameron must have known that the majority of Parliament wouldn't vote for any form of Brexit; but he went ahead with it anyway, because he was certain that Remain would win, and finally see off the Right.
All it means is that we're all arguing and taking the p*ss out of each other, and the country's bitterly divided, with seemingly no way out of it.
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It's absolutely correct that the referendum should never have happened, and without doubt shouldn't have happened as a binary choice on a non-binary question. That is why we are in such a mess now.
That's Cameron's legacy. He's torn open wounds that were barely scratched before 2016. And he did it for nothing other than perceived party polical advantage.
It's astonishing to think that we could have had a PM with such catastrophically bad judgement as that, and that he'll turn out to be only the third worst PM of the 2010s. Or that Gordon Brown will end up judged by history as hands down the most able PM of the 2010s.