Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: bpoolrover on June 03, 2019, 09:20:36 pm
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Have seen that Corbyn is not having the banquet with trump and is addressing a anti trump rally, I find it very strange that it’s possible in a year or 2 he may have to try get trade deals ect with him, surly as possible future pm it is irresponsible at best?
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Corbyn will never be PM....
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Have seen that Corbyn is not having the banquet with trump and is addressing a anti trump rally, I find it very strange that it’s possible in a year or 2 he may have to try get trade deals ect with him, surly as possible future pm it is irresponsible at best?
Wether you like the Mayor of London or not, Trumps tweet slagging him off just before Airforce One landed in this Country was disgraceful, no banquet should have been held for him and he should have been refused entry into the Country, you don’t slag citizens of the host Country off
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Corbyn will never be PM....
:that:
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That’s not the point filo as that’s never going to happen, what’s he going to do if he does not like other presidents or prime ministers just not speak to them?
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That’s not the point filo as that’s never going to happen, what’s he going to do if he does not like other presidents or prime ministers just not speak to them?
The point is Corbyn has principles unlike those kissing Trumps arse today
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Aye and making an enemy of one of the biggest leaders and closest allies is a great idea.
But at least he has his principles.....
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What about putin if he was pm should he snub him and the Saudi leader? Where does it stop?
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I've no problem with any leader taking a stand against Trump. The man is a criminal and a serious threat to Western democracy. Sometimes you have to draw a line.
But Corbyn's stance would be more impressive if his closest advisers weren't Putin apologists, including his Press Secretary and closest ideological adviser who took the stage with Putin to debate western imperialism and the global order a few years ago, with all expenses paid by the Kremlin.
Consistency. You either don't like venal, self-serving criminal-politicians or you do.
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You either don't like venal, self-serving criminal-politicians or you do.
That's sounds like the job description for every politician in this country....
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You either don't like venal, self-serving criminal-politicians or you do.
That's sounds like the job description for every politician in this country....
And that sounds like a very, very silly comment.
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BST and Filo
Are you aware of what happened today? Corbyn rants and raves like a lunatic to the usual rent-a-mob, after snubbing the State banquet last night, and then behind everyone's back requests a meeting with Trump, which the President quite rightly refuses.
As regards Saddiq Kahn, can the Mayor of a city that is rampant with gun and knife crime be regarded as doing a good job?
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BST and Filo
Are you aware of what happened today? Corbyn rants and raves like a lunatic to the usual rent-a-mob, after snubbing the State banquet last night, and then behind everyone's back requests a meeting with Trump, which the President quite rightly refuses.
As regards Saddiq Kahn, can the Mayor of a city that is rampant with gun and knife crime be regarded as doing a good job?
Corbyn is right to discuss with Trump his thoughts that's what sensible politicians do. Obviously slating him before that and prompting him not to accept that request is not a sensible thing to do if you want to persuade him on things.... But then he doesn't want to do that he wants to make Trump look the bad guy. A playbook that is straight out of Trump's method of campaigning.
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Did Corbyn request a meeting with Trump? The only one I can see saying that is Trump himself, the man who lies more than just about anyone in recorded history.
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I doubt that Corbyn would announce to the world that he had been snubbed.
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SS
I think you're confusing me with someone who supports Corbyn wholeheartedly.
I agree with BFYP's post entirely.
My take is that I do agree with Corbyn's decision not to engage with the state visit pomp and circumstance. I'm embarrassed as a proud Briton that our country is rolling the red carpet out for this man. That is a political choice by May, and like so many of those, she's made a wrong call here.
I also agree with Corbyn's request for a private meeting. All political leaders have to meet and talk with people who they find repellent.
What I don't agree with is Corbyn going into tub-thumping mode at the demo. That is utterly counter-productive and not what a LotO should be doing. But he can't help it. Because he's not just anti-Trump. He's anti-American. And that puts him aligned with maybe 15-20% of the population. And that will be used against him for years.
MM/Hound. Labour have confirmed that Corbyn asked for a meeting and was rebuffed. As I say, that will make him look more of a darling with the committed believers. And less PM material to everyone else.
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BST and Filo
Are you aware of what happened today? Corbyn rants and raves like a lunatic to the usual rent-a-mob, after snubbing the State banquet last night, and then behind everyone's back requests a meeting with Trump, which the President quite rightly refuses.
As regards Saddiq Kahn, can the Mayor of a city that is rampant with gun and knife crime be regarded as doing a good job?
Corbyn is right to discuss with Trump his thoughts that's what sensible politicians do. Obviously slating him before that and prompting him not to accept that request is not a sensible thing to do if you want to persuade him on things.... But then he doesn't want to do that he wants to make Trump look the bad guy. A playbook that is straight out of Trump's method of campaigning.
Trump? Look the bad guy? Are you saying any of the below has actually happened? That would be Trump making Trump look bad wouldn't it?
Trump did not shove the prime minister of Montenegro and he didn’t declare that he “fell in love” with the dictator of North Korea. He didn’t hang up on the Australian prime minister, nor attack the pope on Twitter. He didn’t use a phony accent to imitate the Indian prime minister, nor make fun of Chinese leaders’ eyewear. He didn’t refer to African nations and Haiti as “shithole countries.” At no time did Trump confuse the Baltics with the Balkans. Never did he tastelessly comment on the French first lady’s body. He certainly did not invent the country of “Nambia,” nor did he boast about selling Norway a fighter jet that only exists in a computer game. He didn’t mispronounce Nepal as “nipple.”
Under no circumstance did Trump assert that “there is no longer a nuclear threat from North Korea,” nor did he believe North Korea’s dictator over Japan’s prime minister. He most definitely did not land in Israel and announce: “We just got back from the Middle East.” He didn’t skip a visit to a U.S. military cemetery in France because of a little rain. He didn’t accept Vladimir Putin’s word over that of U.S. intelligence, and when told “do not congratulate” Putin on his rigged election victory, he did it anyway. He didn’t refer to Brussels as a “hellhole” nor assert that “Belgium is a beautiful city.” And spelling the British prime minister’s name as that of a British porn actress? Never happened.
His administration didn’t confuse Singapore with Indonesia and China with Taiwan, nor misidentify the Australian prime minister, nor misspell “Denmark.” Not once did Trump vow to “promote the possibility of lasting peach” in the Middle East. Trump simply did not advise the French to dump water on Notre Dame Cathedral from the sky, nor did he claim that Finland avoids fires by “raking” forests. He didn’t fabricate trade figures in talks with the Canadian prime minister. Neither did he falsely accuse South Africa of “large scale killing” of farmers, nor volunteer any thoughts, ever, on “what happened last night in Sweden.”
Trump, furthermore, did not sign the guest book at Israel’s Holocaust memorial with the words “so amazing.” He didn’t pull his name from a Group of Seven communique. He didn’t take a limousine and a golf cart instead of walking with other world leaders at summits. He didn’t struggle with a group handholding exercise in Manila, his knuckles didn’t whiten in the grip of Emmanuel Macron, and Melania Trump did not swat his hand away on the tarmac in Tel Aviv.
Furthermore, Trump did not reveal secret Israeli intelligence to Russia. He didn’t accuse Germany of being “totally controlled by Russia.” He didn’t taunt the French over street protests, attack the idea of NATO, use an all-caps tweet to threaten Iran with annihilation, hail “fantastic” strongmen nor pine for the reign of Moammar Gaddafi.
See https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/americans-must-accept-that-none-of-these-things-ever-happened/2019/06/03/9ed405ec-8638-11e9-a491-25df61c78dc4_story.html?utm_term=.3f2e60d129c3&wpisrc=nl_opinions&wpmm=1 (with all the source links)
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Yes Corbyn did request a meeting with Trump. In fact he has never said he wold not meet Trump - what he said is that he has done nothing to deserve a state visit so he did see why he should go to a state banquet with him.
Nor did he attack Trump in his speech today. In fact he never mentioned Trump at all. What he attacked were the ideas that Trump represents.
As for the Trump fan club, what do you think to his comments today that there have been no protests against him - that was just fake news- and that Teresa May did a great job negotiating her Brexit deal! Or are you going to pretend he never said them and can trust everything he says...
Oh and the piece at the beginning when he talks about his record approval rating - made up
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/06/04/trump-loves-record-poll-numbers-including-ones-hes-apparently-made-up/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.d450972c27ee
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Yes Corbyn did request a meeting with Trump. In fact he has never said he wold not meet Trump - what he said is that he has done nothing to deserve a state visit so he did see why he should go to a state banquet with him.
Nor did he attack Trump in his speech today. In fact he never mentioned Trump at all. What he attacked were the ideas that Trump represents.
As for the Trump fan club, what do you think to his comments today that there have been no protests against him - that was just fake news- and that Teresa May did a great job negotiating her Brexit deal! Or are you going to pretend he never said them and can trust everything he says...
Wilts, I'm not aware of any Trump fan club on here, just people saying it as it is.
Also, are you aware that Corbyn attended a State banquet given for the President of China, a man whose human rights record makes Trump look like a Sunday school teacher?
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Also worth noting this about the press conference
Trump gives interviews to The Sun and Times. Theresa May calls questions only from Sky and the Times. Trump sees Gove privately. There’s a theme. It starts with M and ends with h. And has urdoc in the middle.
https://twitter.com/krishgm/status/1135901388729409538
Hope you are still paying the Sky subscription guys and helping the billionaires out
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Wilts, I'm not aware of any Trump fan club on here, just people saying it as it is.
Also, are you aware that Corbyn attended a State banquet given for the President of China, a man whose human rights record makes Trump look like a Sunday school teacher?
Well there are certain posters who won't be critical of him, whatever he says and whatever he does - even when it is demonstrable lie. You call that 'telling it like it is' I call it...
And yes I know that Corbyn went to the banquet with Xi Jinping. According to Emily Thornberry on the radio this morning he also had a private meeting with him to bring up human rights. Maybe he thought Xi was more open to change & dialogue than Trump?
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy-defence/article/1867686/british-labour-leader-jeremy-corbyn-plans-press-xi
He stopped me going to Tibet btw (Xi Jinping that is not Corbyn)
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Real news or fake comedy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7yRHQtMQnk
Could be either really!
Trump is putting comedy scriptwriters to the sword, just by being himself.
Genius.
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BST and Filo
Are you aware of what happened today? Corbyn rants and raves like a lunatic to the usual rent-a-mob, after snubbing the State banquet last night, and then behind everyone's back requests a meeting with Trump, which the President quite rightly refuses.
As regards Saddiq Kahn, can the Mayor of a city that is rampant with gun and knife crime be regarded as doing a good job?
Do you not think the issues in London are largely to do with austerity?
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the issues in whole Country are caused by 'Austerity ' ( for the many ,of course ). But it's so much easier to blame somebody else , preferably somebody foreign.
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Also worth noting this about the press conference
Trump gives interviews to The Sun and Times. Theresa May calls questions only from Sky and the Times. Trump sees Gove privately. There’s a theme. It starts with M and ends with h. And has urdoc in the middle.
https://twitter.com/krishgm/status/1135901388729409538
Hope you are still paying the Sky subscription guys and helping the billionaires out
Wilts
Interesting link down the page from the tweet you linked to. I've not heard this before but it does show what a malign influence Murdoch is.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Since_May68/status/1135947475536240643
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SS
Knife crime is rising throughout the country.
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/67ED/production/_104250662_chart-knife_sentencing-3evoj-nc.png)
Yes London has a major problem too, but blaming that on Khan without seeing the wider context is risible.
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SS
Knife crime is rising throughout the country.
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/67ED/production/_104250662_chart-knife_sentencing-3evoj-nc.png)
Yes London has a major problem too, but blaming that on Khan without seeing the wider context is risible.
Would you believe that I don't agree with you Billy sadiq Khan and his like minded cronies have over the years denigrated and ground down the Police
To such an extent that if an officer sees a group of Youths behaving in an anti social manner on a street corner, they now will do ll they can to avoid them, they don't want the grief of a Complaint or being accused of being a bigot, they have become risk averse and that's why tosspots can walk round our country with chuffing great machetes and axes stuffed down their Tracky Bottoms.
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Big deep breath Billy. Big deep breath.
Sproty.
When exactly has Khan denigrated the police?
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The Labour mayoral hopeful said he would do everything within his power to continue the reduction of the policing tool. In London stop and search has fallen by 54 per cent since 2010, but the use of a more intelligence-led, targeted approach has led to thousands more arrests.
From the London Evening standard 2010
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Sproty.
And your point is?
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The Labour mayoral hopeful said he would do everything within his power to continue the reduction of the policing tool. In London stop and search has fallen by 54 per cent since 2010, but the use of a more intelligence-led, targeted approach has led to thousands more arrests.
From the London Evening standard 2010
And when was Khan elected? :silly:
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Also worth noting this about the press conference
Trump gives interviews to The Sun and Times. Theresa May calls questions only from Sky and the Times. Trump sees Gove privately. There’s a theme. It starts with M and ends with h. And has urdoc in the middle.
https://twitter.com/krishgm/status/1135901388729409538
Hope you are still paying the Sky subscription guys and helping the billionaires out
Wilts
Interesting link down the page from the tweet you linked to. I've not heard this before but it does show what a malign influence Murdoch is.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Since_May68/status/1135947475536240643
Yes very interesting, I have said on several occasions that I dont think enough is being made of the influence of American (based) billionaires on Brexit - the Russian angle, whilst there, is being used as a convenient smokescreen.
I wouldn't follow that account though, I don't think you will like it. The first tweet says Jeremy Corbyn is the hero this country needs.
Which would be a shame as further down the page is a link to this:
Just got through to @Nigel_Farage on @LBC to ask him what he thinks of the NHS being ‘on the table’ in any trade negotiation. I told him the NHS was the best of British and he asked me what I thought of Blair. I went on to ask him what he thought of the option and he cut me off.
https://mobile.twitter.com/liamyoung/status/1135960387655032832
Farage & Trump eh. Vote Brexit Party and get chlorinated chicken and hospital treatment if you are prepared to pay for it.
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The Labour mayoral hopeful said he would do everything within his power to continue the reduction of the policing tool. In London stop and search has fallen by 54 per cent since 2010, but the use of a more intelligence-led, targeted approach has led to thousands more arrests.
From the London Evening standard 2010
And when was Khan elected? :silly:
If he can't be bothered to say who it was that brought an end to stop & search, cut police funding & numbers and then said the Police Federation were 'crying wolf' when they told her these measures would see crime rise - he ain't going to be bothered to find out when Khan was elected!
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Farage & Trump eh. Vote Brexit Party and get chlorinated chicken and hospital treatment if you are prepared to pay for it.
[/quote]
Well, I doubt the Insurers are going to be interested in the ill, unless they are minted.
Top Dollar premium, skeleton provision for the left overs.
Hospitals, now what are they, your kids will say?
They were a drain on the taxpayer, back in the olden days, you will reply!
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Q/ what do you get if you have a real estate salesman advising the most powerful leader of the almost free world.
A/ Dangerously unhinged juvenile asinine statements concerning middle east peace and security.
Opinion Jared Kushner Just Killed the Palestinian Peace Camp
https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.premium-jared-kushner-just-killed-the-palestinian-peace-camp-1.7317109
''Jared Kushner is profoundly clueless''
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/04/opinions/jared-kushner-clueless-filipovic/index.html
Mod: this is not a slur against sales people just Kushner.
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My piss is boiling.
I've now seen a good dozen videos of fascist anti trump protesters attacking supporters of a democratically elected president.
The latest one I've seen is an elderly man attacked and thrown to the ground.
This is high level fascism, and fuelled by the Vile diatribe coming out of that PRICKS mouth sadiq kahn.
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That’s not the point filo as that’s never going to happen, what’s he going to do if he does not like other presidents or prime ministers just not speak to them?
The point is Corbyn has principles unlike those kissing Trumps arse today
Priciples ARE YOU f**kING KIDDING?
He's met/supported mass murdering terrorists, but refuses to meet a democratically elected president of our greatest ally.
Corbyn is an irrelevant joke.
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My piss is boiling.
I've now seen a good dozen videos of fascist anti trump protesters attacking supporters of a democratically elected president.
The latest one I've seen is an elderly man attacked and thrown to the ground.
This is high level fascism, and fuelled by the Vile diatribe coming out of that PRICKS mouth sadiq kahn.
I don't condone violence in any form but this is what a lot of people think:
It Isn’t Complicated: Trump Encourages Violence
''He doesn’t deserve blame for any specific attack. He does deserve blame for the increase in white-nationalist violence''
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/17/opinion/trump-violence.html
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My piss is boiling.
I've now seen a good dozen videos of fascist anti trump protesters attacking supporters of a democratically elected president.
The latest one I've seen is an elderly man attacked and thrown to the ground.
This is high level fascism, and fuelled by the Vile diatribe coming out of that PRICKS mouth sadiq kahn.
Have you a link for these so we can check them out?
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That’s not the point filo as that’s never going to happen, what’s he going to do if he does not like other presidents or prime ministers just not speak to them?
The point is Corbyn has principles unlike those kissing Trumps arse today
Priciples ARE YOU f**kING KIDDING?
He's met/supported mass murdering terrorists, but refuses to meet a democratically elected president of our greatest ally.
Corbyn is an irrelevant joke.
He hasn't refused to meet Trump. Pay attention at the back.
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That’s not the point filo as that’s never going to happen, what’s he going to do if he does not like other presidents or prime ministers just not speak to them?
The point is Corbyn has principles unlike those kissing Trumps arse today
Priciples ARE YOU f**kING KIDDING?
He's met/supported mass murdering terrorists, but refuses to meet a democratically elected president of our greatest ally.
Corbyn is an irrelevant joke.
He hasn't refused to meet Trump. Pay attention at the back.
Moot point
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That’s not the point filo as that’s never going to happen, what’s he going to do if he does not like other presidents or prime ministers just not speak to them?
The point is Corbyn has principles unlike those kissing Trumps arse today
Priciples ARE YOU f**kING KIDDING?
He's met/supported mass murdering terrorists, but refuses to meet a democratically elected president of our greatest ally.
Corbyn is an irrelevant joke.
He hasn't refused to meet Trump. Pay attention at the back.
Moot point
Not moot fact
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That’s not the point filo as that’s never going to happen, what’s he going to do if he does not like other presidents or prime ministers just not speak to them?
The point is Corbyn has principles unlike those kissing Trumps arse today
Priciples ARE YOU f**kING KIDDING?
He's met/supported mass murdering terrorists, but refuses to meet a democratically elected president of our greatest ally.
Corbyn is an irrelevant joke.
He hasn't refused to meet Trump. Pay attention at the back.
Moot point
ARE YOU f**kING KIDDING?
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Let's not let facts get in the way of anything here.
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That’s not the point filo as that’s never going to happen, what’s he going to do if he does not like other presidents or prime ministers just not speak to them?
The point is Corbyn has principles unlike those kissing Trumps arse today
Priciples ARE YOU f**kING KIDDING?
He's met/supported mass murdering terrorists, but refuses to meet a democratically elected president of our greatest ally.
Corbyn is an irrelevant joke.
He hasn't refused to meet Trump. Pay attention at the back.
Moot point
I understand your confusion BS.
When I heard Trump say that Corbyn had asked for a meeting, and he, Trump had refused it, I also thought the most likely truth was that Corbyn had refused to meet trump.
But, whaddya know? That was the one day in 10 where Trump wasn't lying.
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Great int it? Throughout history, we've progressed through fact-based decision making.
The Right over the last few years has been normalising decision-based fact making.
Trump, Johnson and Farage are the chief exponents, but it seems to be spreading to BS here.
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A Giant Ginger windbag was seen in London yesterday and there was also a large protest with a huge baby blimp.
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Yes there was Sydney,more bad press for the lefties and goody two shoes remainers that were blamed for it .
Meanwhile Trump took the opportunity of giving a lift to the leader of the fastest growing political party in Europe.
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Yes there was Sydney,more bad press for the lefties and goody two shoes remainers that were blamed for it .
Meanwhile Trump took the opportunity of giving a lift to the leader of the fastest growing political party in Europe.
He wasn't in a big red bus was he Selby?
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The point here, is that some idiots on here consider corbyn as having principles, because he refused to sit down with trump and have a slap up dinner.
This is the same corbyn, who meets with mass murdering terrorists, snubs the national anthem, is the leader of an anti semitic party, prefers to sit on a train floor despite empty seats, thinks we should get rid on nukes, thinks people choose to be gay, and who's politics is irrelevant and about 5 decades out of date.
The American president is our greatest ally, we need him, we should welcome him, and deal with him.
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A Giant Ginger windbag was seen in London yesterday and there was also a large protest with a huge baby blimp.
Massive irony is, someone burst it with........................ a knife.
Well done sadiq
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The point here, is that some idiots on here consider corbyn as having principles, because he refused to sit down with trump and have a slap up dinner.
This is the same corbyn, who meets with mass murdering terrorists, snubs the national anthem, is the leader of an anti semitic party, prefers to sit on a train floor despite empty seats, thinks we should get rid on nukes, thinks people choose to be gay, and who's politics is irrelevant and about 5 decades out of date.
The American president is our greatest ally, we need him, we should welcome him, and deal with him.
Too right BS compared with Trump who surpasses 10,000 False Or Misleading Claims Since Becoming President: Report.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/donald-trump-washingon-post-fact-checker_n_5cc6f065e4b04eb7ff98ec18
And bragging about grabbing women by the pussy
https://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/donald-trump-washingon-post-fact-checker_n_5cc6f065e4b04eb7ff98ec18
Paid off women he had sex with, which is not a problem in my book except he lied to everyone about it including his wife.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/feb/27/donald-trump-jr-stormy-daniels-payment-michael-cohen-testimony-hearing-latest
And the list goes on ..........................
Corbyn needs to pull his socks up if he wants to compete with this.
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BS, it would be good to support a few/all/most of your statements with links so we understand better what you are putting forward.
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The point here, is that some idiots on here consider corbyn as having principles, because he refused to sit down with trump and have a slap up dinner.
This is the same corbyn, who meets with mass murdering terrorists, snubs the national anthem, is the leader of an anti semitic party, prefers to sit on a train floor despite empty seats, thinks we should get rid on nukes, thinks people choose to be gay, and who's politics is irrelevant and about 5 decades out of date.
The American president is our greatest ally, we need him, we should welcome him, and deal with him.
He didn't refuse to meet Trump. He actually offered to meet him. I wrongly thought that was a lie by Trump, and I'll happily admit to being wrong on that occasion. I'm sure, as you like to tell it how it is, you'll do the same?
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A Giant Ginger windbag was seen in London yesterday and there was also a large protest with a huge baby blimp.
Massive irony is, someone burst it with........................ a knife
Ang got arrested for doing it!
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BS, it would be good to support a few/all/most of your statements with links so we understand better what you are putting forward.
A Trump supporter. Stupid bitch cut herself in the process, then was arrested by the police for carrying a knife in a public place. Meanwhile, the blimp is fully recovered. :thumbsup:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/mashabl...n-amy-mura.amp
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BS, it would be good to support a few/all/most of your statements with links so we understand better what you are putting forward.
A Trump supporter. Stupid bitch cut herself in the process, then was arrested by the police for carrying a knife in a public place. Meanwhile, the blimp is fully recovered. :thumbsup:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/mashabl...n-amy-mura.amp
Did she need the NHS? :lol:
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The point here, is that some idiots on here consider corbyn as having principles, because he refused to sit down with trump and have a slap up dinner.
This is the same corbyn, who meets with mass murdering terrorists, snubs the national anthem, is the leader of an anti semitic party, prefers to sit on a train floor despite empty seats, thinks we should get rid on nukes, thinks people choose to be gay, and who's politics is irrelevant and about 5 decades out of date.
The American president is our greatest ally, we need him, we should welcome him, and deal with him.
He didn't refuse to meet Trump. He actually offered to meet him. I wrongly thought that was a lie by Trump, and I'll happily admit to being wrong on that occasion. I'm sure, as you like to tell it how it is, you'll do the same?
You'll happily admit to being wrong? Be careful, you lefty liberalists have been suggesting for years that everything you say is right, and anyone who disagrees is an idiot, or a right wing fascist.
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I'll take that as a no then.
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I'll take that as a no then.
A no to what? You were answering Boomstick's post, not mine.
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That’s not the point filo as that’s never going to happen, what’s he going to do if he does not like other presidents or prime ministers just not speak to them?
The point is Corbyn has principles unlike those kissing Trumps arse today
Priciples ARE YOU f**kING KIDDING?
He's met/supported mass murdering terrorists, but refuses to meet a democratically elected president of our greatest ally.
Corbyn is an irrelevant joke.
Oh dear. Who is going to tell Boomstick that Donald Trump was a fundraiser for the IRA. That is he personally met/supported and gave money to mass murdering terrorists.
'In his speech Gerry Adams joked about Sinn Fein playing the Trump Card'
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-attended-sinn-f-in-fundraiser-months-before-ira-attacked-london-a6767601.html
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The point here, is that some idiots on here consider corbyn as having principles, because he refused to sit down with trump and have a slap up dinner.
This is the same corbyn, who meets with mass murdering terrorists, snubs the national anthem, is the leader of an anti semitic party, prefers to sit on a train floor despite empty seats, thinks we should get rid on nukes, thinks people choose to be gay, and who's politics is irrelevant and about 5 decades out of date.
The American president is our greatest ally, we need him, we should welcome him, and deal with him.
He didn't refuse to meet Trump. He actually offered to meet him. I wrongly thought that was a lie by Trump, and I'll happily admit to being wrong on that occasion. I'm sure, as you like to tell it how it is, you'll do the same?
You'll happily admit to being wrong? Be careful, you lefty liberalists have been suggesting for years that everything you say is right, and anyone who disagrees is an idiot, or a right wing fascist.
SS
That attitude doesn't help a sensible discussion. Back stuff up with facts and I'll happily admit to an argument being right. But equally, when people are shown unquestionably to be lying, we need to factor that in when we assess what they claim.
We had a perfect example last week of outrageous and deliberate lying by Farage's organisation with that doctored video, and no Leave supporter here has addressed that issue.
All of us need to be more clear headed in the way we discuss things and appraise information.
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The point here, is that some idiots on here consider corbyn as having principles, because he refused to sit down with trump and have a slap up dinner.
This is the same corbyn, who meets with mass murdering terrorists, snubs the national anthem, is the leader of an anti semitic party, prefers to sit on a train floor despite empty seats, thinks we should get rid on nukes, thinks people choose to be gay, and who's politics is irrelevant and about 5 decades out of date.
The American president is our greatest ally, we need him, we should welcome him, and deal with him.
He didn't refuse to meet Trump. He actually offered to meet him. I wrongly thought that was a lie by Trump, and I'll happily admit to being wrong on that occasion. I'm sure, as you like to tell it how it is, you'll do the same?
You'll happily admit to being wrong? Be careful, you lefty liberalists have been suggesting for years that everything you say is right, and anyone who disagrees is an idiot, or a right wing fascist.
SS
That attitude doesn't help a sensible discussion. Back stuff up with facts and I'll happily admit to an argument being right. But equally, when people are shown unquestionably to be lying, we need to factor that in when we assess what they claim.
We had a perfect example last week of outrageous and deliberate lying by Farage's organisation with that doctored video, and no Leave supporter here has addressed that issue.
All of us need to be more clear headed in the way we discuss things and appraise information.
Billy, the reason I said that to Macho was because he came in like a bull at the gate the previous day, without checking his facts first.
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Wilts.
If Russian involvement in the Brexit campaign was a smokescreen, it was a pretty elaborate one.
For a start, Arron Banks and the Russian Ambassador must have been in on it, since they had 13 meetings in 2015/16, then Banks who hardly had a sixpence to scratch his arse with, so badly were his companies performing, suddenly found £8m down the sofa to give to Farage.
But I do get that you're from the same camp as Corbyn and the 4Ms, whose policy is Thou Shalt Never Criticise Russia Lest Thou Absolves Western Imperialists.
As for that tweet, here's a thing. You can agree with someone on one thing and disagree in something else. Like, for example, the way I can agree with Corbyn's economic policy (McDonnell's actually; Corbyn's not clever enough to get the detail) while thinking his foreign policy is barely above playground level.
Billy please read and responded to what I wrote and said - not what you think I wrote.
That is 'Russian involvement has been used as convenient smokescreen'. Channel 4 News have done some great work uncovering the source of Banks' funds - but I believe that has allowed a further set of people to escape the scrutiny they deserve. If the EU is weakened by Britain leaving who stands to gain in world trade - their biggest trade competitor perhaps?
It's a bit of a long article but worth reading
https://www.globalresearch.ca/how-brexit-was-engineered-by-foreign-billionaires-to-bring-about-economic-chaos-for-profit/5614194
I wont bother responding to your jibes about Russia or Corbyn - but I think you and I are proof that you can agree with someone on one thing and disagree on something else!
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Wilts
Slap on the wrist accepted.
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I'll take that as a no then.
A no to what? You were answering Boomstick's post, not mine.
It happens sometimes when you look at the content of a post before you look at what points you can score off the name of the poster. Again, I got something wrong. I'm happy to admit that. I don't think anyone on this board has ever claimed to know everything, or that they've never got things wrong. I know that doesn't jibe with your worldview that everyone to the left of Farage is part of some secret leftie backslapping club, but there you are.
That kind of sums this whole thing up for me. Ive noticed those on the left of this debate - on this forum and off it - are much more willing to hold their hands up and admit they get things wrong. You? You never seem to do that. You'll deflect, dissemble, ignore things you don't like, go after the poster rather than engage with the substance of what they've said. It's very telling.
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What else would you expect of a BB disciple? He's learnt from the master.
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Not sure I've ever seen anything like Trump's signature.
https://mobile.twitter.com/LeoVaradkar/status/1136334209700761600
It looks like a polygraph readout.
Scaled down in magnitude, obviously.
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I have just been listening to talk radio Billy, they have tried to get a comment by contacting over 40 Labour MP's about Corbyn and some of the other Labour luminaries appearance at yesterdays rally in London.
Not one would come on the radio and comment, they are ashamed of him and the others mate, just another instance of shooting themselves in the foot.
Tomorrow could be a very long bad day.
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''Trump likens Irish border to wall between US and Mexico
Leo Varadkar tells US president Ireland wishes to avoid border or wall after Brexit''
I thought trump had a few brain cells at least but apparently not, not a single one. No wonder he doesn't want the house looking into his tax records.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/05/ireland-visit-donald-trump-arrives-leo-varadkar-discussions
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I'll take that as a no then.
A no to what? You were answering Boomstick's post, not mine.
It happens sometimes when you look at the content of a post before you look at what points you can score off the name of the poster. Again, I got something wrong. I'm happy to admit that. I don't think anyone on this board has ever claimed to know everything, or that they've never got things wrong. I know that doesn't jibe with your worldview that everyone to the left of Farage is part of some secret leftie backslapping club, but there you are.
That kind of sums this whole thing up for me. Ive noticed those on the left of this debate - on this forum and off it - are much more willing to hold their hands up and admit they get things wrong. You? You never seem to do that. You'll deflect, dissemble, ignore things you don't like, go after the poster rather than engage with the substance of what they've said. It's very telling.
Keep going Macho, keep going. You've even got a like from Filo now. What an endorsement that is.
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What else would you expect of a BB disciple? He's learnt from the master.
No Glyn, I'm probably a lot older than BB. Never met him either; I've still got that pleasure to come; looking forward to it.
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I'll take that as a no then.
A no to what? You were answering Boomstick's post, not mine.
It happens sometimes when you look at the content of a post before you look at what points you can score off the name of the poster. Again, I got something wrong. I'm happy to admit that. I don't think anyone on this board has ever claimed to know everything, or that they've never got things wrong. I know that doesn't jibe with your worldview that everyone to the left of Farage is part of some secret leftie backslapping club, but there you are.
That kind of sums this whole thing up for me. Ive noticed those on the left of this debate - on this forum and off it - are much more willing to hold their hands up and admit they get things wrong. You? You never seem to do that. You'll deflect, dissemble, ignore things you don't like, go after the poster rather than engage with the substance of what they've said. It's very telling.
Keep going Macho, keep going. You've even got a like from Filo now. What an endorsement that is.
Well done for backing up what Macho says, especially the last sentence in his post 😀😀😀😀
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''Trump likens Irish border to wall between US and Mexico
Leo Varadkar tells US president Ireland wishes to avoid border or wall after Brexit''
I thought trump had a few brain cells at least but apparently not, not a single one. No wonder he doesn't want the house looking into his tax records.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/05/ireland-visit-donald-trump-arrives-leo-varadkar-discussions
He was purely talking about the border, mentioning a wall was a obviously slip on the tongue. The Irish pm was duty bound to state they wanted no wall, he would have got slaughtered if he didn't.
But hey, believe what you want if it suits your agenda
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''Trump likens Irish border to wall between US and Mexico
Leo Varadkar tells US president Ireland wishes to avoid border or wall after Brexit''
I thought trump had a few brain cells at least but apparently not, not a single one. No wonder he doesn't want the house looking into his tax records.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/05/ireland-visit-donald-trump-arrives-leo-varadkar-discussions
He was purely talking about the border, mentioning a wall was a obviously slip on the tongue.
You SERIOUSLY believe that? That it was a slip of the tongue?
The Irish pm was duty bound to state they wanted no wall, he would have got slaughtered if he didn't.
No duty bound about it, nor risk of slaughtering. No one wants a border, let alone a wall, between Northern Ireland and Ireland. The only person mentioning a wall was Trump.
But hey, believe what you want if it suits your agenda
Seems you'll believe anything except reality BS!
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I'm with BS on this one.
It's clearly a slip of the tongue. He has a set of standard memes that he fires out to his supporters. When his brain has the word "border" flit through it, it's inevitable it's going to be followed by "wall".
Course, if Trump was now asked why he spoke about a border wall in Ireland, his reply would be that he didn't. And those who support Trump would have zero problem with that.
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I'm with BS on this one.
It's clearly a slip of the tongue. He has a set of standard memes that he fires out to his supporters. When his brain has the word "border" flit through it, it's inevitable it's going to be followed by "wall".
Course, if Trump was now asked why he spoke about a border wall in Ireland, his reply would be that he didn't. And those who support Trump would have zero problem with that.
If it was a slip of the tongue BST, why when trump was corrected and the Irish PM said we don't want a boarder or a wall would trump say "I think you do"?
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Because he's an imbecile at a guess. His mouth utters random words without his cognitive powers engaging.
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There's a million and one things to have a pop at trump for, if that's what you like.
But having a go over a slip of the tongue, seems childish.
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''Trump likens Irish border to wall between US and Mexico
Leo Varadkar tells US president Ireland wishes to avoid border or wall after Brexit''
I thought trump had a few brain cells at least but apparently not, not a single one. No wonder he doesn't want the house looking into his tax records.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/05/ireland-visit-donald-trump-arrives-leo-varadkar-discussions
He was purely talking about the border, mentioning a wall was a obviously slip on the tongue.
You SERIOUSLY believe that? That it was a slip of the tongue?
The Irish pm was duty bound to state they wanted no wall, he would have got slaughtered if he didn't.
No duty bound about it, nor risk of slaughtering. No one wants a border, let alone a wall, between Northern Ireland and Ireland. The only person mentioning a wall was Trump.
But hey, believe what you want if it suits your agenda
Seems you'll believe anything except reality BS!
Look. Even trump isn't stupid enough to push for a wall on the Irish border.
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''Trump likens Irish border to wall between US and Mexico
Leo Varadkar tells US president Ireland wishes to avoid border or wall after Brexit''
I thought trump had a few brain cells at least but apparently not, not a single one. No wonder he doesn't want the house looking into his tax records.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/05/ireland-visit-donald-trump-arrives-leo-varadkar-discussions
He was purely talking about the border, mentioning a wall was a obviously slip on the tongue.
You SERIOUSLY believe that? That it was a slip of the tongue?
The Irish pm was duty bound to state they wanted no wall, he would have got slaughtered if he didn't.
No duty bound about it, nor risk of slaughtering. No one wants a border, let alone a wall, between Northern Ireland and Ireland. The only person mentioning a wall was Trump.
But hey, believe what you want if it suits your agenda
Seems you'll believe anything except reality BS!
Look. Even trump isn't stupid enough to push for a wall on the Irish border.
Nothing is off limits as far as stupidity and trump are concerned
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Because he's an imbecile at a guess. His mouth utters random words without his cognitive powers engaging.
Why wouldn't he do that? He has an army of cheerleaders who'll back him up. Including people like John Humphrys, who was claiming Trump had never said the NHS was on the table this morning. Scary times we live in.
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Because he's an imbecile at a guess. His mouth utters random words without his cognitive powers engaging.
Why wouldn't he do that? He has an army of cheerleaders who'll back him up. Including people like John Humphrys, who was claiming Trump had never said the NHS was on the table this morning. Scary times we live in.
You get the feeling MM if farage said lick my boots there'd be such a rush the UK would tip over and sink.
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''Trump likens Irish border to wall between US and Mexico
Leo Varadkar tells US president Ireland wishes to avoid border or wall after Brexit''
I thought trump had a few brain cells at least but apparently not, not a single one. No wonder he doesn't want the house looking into his tax records.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/05/ireland-visit-donald-trump-arrives-leo-varadkar-discussions
He was purely talking about the border, mentioning a wall was a obviously slip on the tongue.
You SERIOUSLY believe that? That it was a slip of the tongue?
The Irish pm was duty bound to state they wanted no wall, he would have got slaughtered if he didn't.
No duty bound about it, nor risk of slaughtering. No one wants a border, let alone a wall, between Northern Ireland and Ireland. The only person mentioning a wall was Trump.
But hey, believe what you want if it suits your agenda
Seems you'll believe anything except reality BS!
Look. Even trump isn't stupid enough to push for a wall on the Irish border.
Nothing is off limits as far as stupidity and trump are concerned
Well, like I said, believe what you want if it suits your agenda.
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So. The moon is a part of Mars?
https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1137051097955102720?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-10949656012897008051.ampproject.net%2F1905292322390%2Fframe.html
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So. The moon is a part of Mars?
https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1137051097955102720?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-10949656012897008051.ampproject.net%2F1905292322390%2Fframe.html
Everyone knows it's made of cheese, the man is an idiot.
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So. The moon is a part of Mars?
https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1137051097955102720?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-10949656012897008051.ampproject.net%2F1905292322390%2Fframe.html
Again, the anti trump brigade are misinterpreting what he says. (on purpose or not?)
We need to go to Mars via the moon, and use the moon as a stop off, and to practice and perfect the technology needed for Mars.
It's not that hard to realise what he meant.
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So. The moon is a part of Mars?
https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1137051097955102720?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-10949656012897008051.ampproject.net%2F1905292322390%2Fframe.html
Again, the anti trump brigade are misinterpreting what he says. (on purpose or not?)
We need to go to Mars via the moon, and use the moon as a stop off, and to practice and perfect the technology needed for Mars.
It's not that hard to realise what he meant.
When a person is an inveterate liar it's difficult to understand what he means at all BS, I'll ask you the same question I asked SS which I don't think he's answered to date, but I may have missed it.
''Steve are you a trump supporter and if so are comfortable supporting a person having been reported by the Washington Post no less as have told 10,000 lies in such a short period of time?
How The Washington Post tallied more than 10,000 Trump falsehoods in less than three years''
https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2019/how-the-washington-post-tallied-more-than-10000-trump-falsehoods-in-less-than-three-years/
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It's really not hard to understand what he means though is it. Unless like you and a few on here, want to use it as a pathetic/ childish way to attack him.
What's lost on the anti-trump brigade though, is by using these ad homenim attacks, your losing credibility and respect, and can't form a genuine and real argument.
I'm not a trump supporter, but I'd rather him than another establishment puppet than Clinton.
But what I can't stand, is idiots like corbyn and kahn attacking/snubbing the office of a democratically elected president, in order to score points with their extremist followers.
Looks like on this thread, people are attacking him over a slip of the tongue, and misinterpreting his tweets. (still unsure if it was intentional)
To me it shows your struggling to find new material to attack him with, and pretty much smacks of low intellect by resorting to those attacks, which are not much above name calling.
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But BS he is a child, he's petulant and when confronted by the truth which is most of the time like a child he denies it, how are you supposed to deal with a naughty child?
You didn't respond to my question about the 10000 lies?
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But BS he is a child, he's petulant and when confronted by the truth which is most of the time like a child he denies it, how are you supposed to deal with a naughty child?
You didn't respond to my question about the 10000 lies?
I agree with what you say about him, but there are ways you can discredit him without resorting to adhomenim attacks.
To deal with a petulant child, is by not being childish and petulant back.
I wouldn't consider myself a trump supporter, so not sure I could answer your question.
However given the choice between him and Clinton, I would have walked through barefoot through broken glass to vote for trump.
It's a real shame mcain didn't run, or win the nomination to run against Clinton.
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But BS he is a child, he's petulant and when confronted by the truth which is most of the time like a child he denies it, how are you supposed to deal with a naughty child?
You didn't respond to my question about the 10000 lies?
I agree with what you say about him, but there are ways you can discredit him without resorting to adhomenim attacks.
To deal with a petulant child, is by not being childish and petulant back.
I wouldn't consider myself a trump supporter, so not sure I could answer your question.
However given the choice between him and Clinton, I would have walked through barefoot through broken glass to vote for trump.
It's a real shame mcain didn't run, or win the nomination to run against Clinton.
I appreciate your reply even though it;s a bit scary, thanks BS
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BS
Ok. I'll buy that.
In which case, his tweet is saying that NASA shouldn't send astronauts to the Moon. It should send them to Mars. Which involves sending them to the Moon.
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The narcissistic force is strong with this one.
https://mobile.twitter.com/axios/status/1136973534419456001
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BS
Ok. I'll buy that.
In which case, his tweet is saying that NASA shouldn't send astronauts to the Moon. It should send them to Mars. Which involves sending them to the Moon.
No, he's saying we should aim for Mars, and not just settle and stop at the moon.
Like I said, getting to Mars and perfecting the technology requires going back to the moon first.
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The narcissistic force is strong with this one.
https://mobile.twitter.com/axios/status/1136973534419456001
Oh, I don't know. You normally sign underneath whatever you're declaring to have read and understood. So it's probably in the right place.
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So. The moon is a part of Mars?
https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1137051097955102720?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-10949656012897008051.ampproject.net%2F1905292322390%2Fframe.html
Everyone knows it's made of cheese, the man is an idiot.
Incorrect Sydney; it's made of green cheese. x
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BS..
I salute your ability to read into Trump's borderline-illiterate ramblings what true meaning is hidden inside.
I've got a couple of thousand others here that you might want to have a go at too.
My favourite is the one that says the Mueller Report totally exonerated him of criminal activity, when the Mueller Report text said in black and white that it didn't exonerate him.
Any ideas what he meant by that one?
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So. The moon is a part of Mars?
https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1137051097955102720?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-10949656012897008051.ampproject.net%2F1905292322390%2Fframe.html
Everyone knows it's made of cheese, the man is an idiot.
Incorrect Sydney; it's made of green cheese. x
Cheese, green cheese just need crackers-trump?
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''Can Trump win in 2020? This Pennsylvania county may be an indicator''
''Frank Behum worked at Bethlehem Steel for 32 years. “The president is a pathological liar,” Behum said on a recent morning near the silent row of rusting blast furnaces that went extinct 25 years ago. “He can’t help himself. He’s been doing it his whole life and getting away with it.”
Noooo this can't be true, our Don, the Donald Trump-a liar, you must have the wrong guy?
com/us-news/2019/jun/09/will-trump-win-2020-voters-pennsylvania-county-indicator-chance
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BS..
I salute your ability to read into Trump's borderline-illiterate ramblings what true meaning is hidden inside.
I've got a couple of thousand others here that you might want to have a go at too.
My favourite is the one that says the Mueller Report totally exonerated him of criminal activity, when the Mueller Report text said in black and white that it didn't exonerate him.
Any ideas what he meant by that one?
Well it kinda depends who said it first doesn't it?.
Anyway, there wasn't any Russian collusion, that's all that matters.
As for being exonerated from any wrong doing? Certainly doubt hillary, soros and his sjw rent a mobs can be exonerated either!
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BS.
Who says there was no Russian collusion?
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BS.
Who says there was no Russian collusion?
Innocent until proven guilty
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So you're now not saying that there was no collusion?
I assume you know PRECISELY what Mueller concluded in his report?
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Like I said, innocent until proven guilty.
If they can't prove guilt, then he's innocent of collusion.
Simple.
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Just for the record, it's well worth reading precisely what Mueller said. In his executive summary, he uses a very specific set of words. He says that it is beyond doubt that the Russian Govt interfered with the 2016 Election in Trump's favour. He also says that there were many links between Russian Govt agents and individuals connected with the Trump Campaign, but "the evidence (of collusion) is not sufficient to support criminal charges."
I guess that's what you're referring to when you say Trump is innocent because that's the line that has been widely reported.
Just bear in mind for a moment, the specific words Mueller used "evidence is not sufficient to support criminal charges".
Not, "we found no evidence.." Rather, "the evidence we did find wasn't sufficient to support prosecution."
Because evidence isn't black and white. There are levels and shades of grey. And if a Special Investigator was going to accuse the President's team of treason, he would need to have cast-iron, A1 evidence.
With that in mind, now look at what he says in the very next paragraph (and remember that Mueller is smarter than anyone you or I have ever met, and would not have done this by accident).
He says, "the investigation established that several individuals connected to the Trump campaign lied to the Office (i.e. the Mueller investigation) and to Congress about their interactions with Russia -affiliated individuals and other matters. Those lies materially affected the investigation."
So. Comment on Mueller's inability to establish sufficient evidence for criminal action, immediately followed by comments about Trump associates lying to impede the investigation.
He then goes on to list the people who he has had sent down for lying to him and Congress and "materially affecting the investigation". Papadopoulos, Flynn, Cohen and Manafort.
Four very close associates of Trump's. Mueller states categorically that all of them lied to prevent Mueller and/or Congress from finding out something about the Trump campaign's interaction with Russia. All four were prepared to do time for that.
Innocent until proven guilty, aye. Just like Mafia bosses often aren't found guilty because they have someone else take the fall to protect them.
EDIT.
Oh aye. I forgot to add. Mueller also says when talking about Trump's obstruction of the investigation (a Federal offence) that it was not his (Mueller's) role to determine guilt, but that if he had evidence that Trump was not guilty of obstruction, he would have said so. And he very pointedly said that he was not saying so.
So. Just stop and think.
There is the Special Investigator and ex-FBI chief saying in as clear a way as he is allowed to, that, if he were able to, he'd prosecute Trump for obstruction of the investigation into collusion with the Russians.
But...why would Trump have obstructed the investigation if he hadn't colluded with the Russians?
And why would 4 of his closest associated have obstructed the investigation into collusion with Russia and been prepared to serve time as a result, if there was no collusion with the Russians?
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But BS he is a child, he's petulant and when confronted by the truth which is most of the time like a child he denies it, how are you supposed to deal with a naughty child?
You didn't respond to my question about the 10000 lies?
I agree with what you say about him, but there are ways you can discredit him without resorting to adhomenim attacks.
To deal with a petulant child, is by not being childish and petulant back.
I wouldn't consider myself a trump supporter, so not sure I could answer your question.
However given the choice between him and Clinton, I would have walked through barefoot through broken glass to vote for trump.
It's a real shame mcain didn't run, or win the nomination to run against Clinton.
Sorry to keep coming back to this BS but like I said I thought your answer was a bit scary, another question, trump's relationship with the christian conservatives appears to be driving the wind-back of women's rights and new laws in the US and in poor countries around the world. Does this effect how you think regarding having democrats in office rather than the republicans.
''Trump’s anti-abortion global gag rule threatening women's lives, report says
‘People are dying’ in Africa and south Asia as a result of policy that bans aid to foreign groups who support abortions, says author of report''
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/jun/05/trump-global-gag-rule-anti-abortion-harms-women-africa-asia-report
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But BS he is a child, he's petulant and when confronted by the truth which is most of the time like a child he denies it, how are you supposed to deal with a naughty child?
You didn't respond to my question about the 10000 lies?
I agree with what you say about him, but there are ways you can discredit him without resorting to adhomenim attacks.
To deal with a petulant child, is by not being childish and petulant back.
I wouldn't consider myself a trump supporter, so not sure I could answer your question.
However given the choice between him and Clinton, I would have walked through barefoot through broken glass to vote for trump.
It's a real shame mcain didn't run, or win the nomination to run against Clinton.
Sorry to keep coming back to this BS but like I said I thought your answer was a bit scary, another question, trump's relationship with the christian conservatives appears to be driving the wind-back of women's rights and new laws in the US and in poor countries around the world. Does this effect how you think regarding having democrats in office rather than the republicans.
''Trump’s anti-abortion global gag rule threatening women's lives, report says
‘People are dying’ in Africa and south Asia as a result of policy that bans aid to foreign groups who support abortions, says author of report''
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/jun/05/trump-global-gag-rule-anti-abortion-harms-women-africa-asia-report
It's certainly something I don't agree with.
But it isn't a republican or democrat issue.
-
Just for the record, it's well worth reading precisely what Mueller said. In his executive summary, he uses a very specific set of words. He says that it is beyond doubt that the Russian Govt interfered with the 2016 Election in Trump's favour. He also says that there were many links between Russian Govt agents and individuals connected with the Trump Campaign, but "the evidence (of collusion) is not sufficient to support criminal charges."
I guess that's what you're referring to when you say Trump is innocent because that's the line that has been widely reported.
Just bear in mind for a moment, the specific words Mueller used "evidence is not sufficient to support criminal charges".
Not, "we found no evidence.." Rather, "the evidence we did find wasn't sufficient to support prosecution."
Because evidence isn't black and white. There are levels and shades of grey. And if a Special Investigator was going to accuse the President's team of treason, he would need to have cast-iron, A1 evidence.
With that in mind, now look at what he says in the very next paragraph (and remember that Mueller is smarter than anyone you or I have ever met, and would not have done this by accident).
He says, "the investigation established that several individuals connected to the Trump campaign lied to the Office (i.e. the Mueller investigation) and to Congress about their interactions with Russia -affiliated individuals and other matters. Those lies materially affected the investigation."
So. Comment on Mueller's inability to establish sufficient evidence for criminal action, immediately followed by comments about Trump associates lying to impede the investigation.
He then goes on to list the people who he has had sent down for lying to him and Congress and "materially affecting the investigation". Papadopoulos, Flynn, Cohen and Manafort.
Four very close associates of Trump's. Mueller states categorically that all of them lied to prevent Mueller and/or Congress from finding out something about the Trump campaign's interaction with Russia. All four were prepared to do time for that.
Innocent until proven guilty, aye. Just like Mafia bosses often aren't found guilty because they have someone else take the fall to protect them.
EDIT.
Oh aye. I forgot to add. Mueller also says when talking about Trump's obstruction of the investigation (a Federal offence) that it was not his (Mueller's) role to determine guilt, but that if he had evidence that Trump was not guilty of obstruction, he would have said so. And he very pointedly said that he was not saying so.
So. Just stop and think.
There is the Special Investigator and ex-FBI chief saying in as clear a way as he is allowed to, that, if he were able to, he'd prosecute Trump for obstruction of the investigation into collusion with the Russians.
But...why would Trump have obstructed the investigation if he hadn't colluded with the Russians?
And why would 4 of his closest associated have obstructed the investigation into collusion with Russia and been prepared to serve time as a result, if there was no collusion with the Russians?
So the conclusion is, 'he might be guilty of collusion, but we can't prove it?'
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But BS he is a child, he's petulant and when confronted by the truth which is most of the time like a child he denies it, how are you supposed to deal with a naughty child?
You didn't respond to my question about the 10000 lies?
I agree with what you say about him, but there are ways you can discredit him without resorting to adhomenim attacks.
To deal with a petulant child, is by not being childish and petulant back.
I wouldn't consider myself a trump supporter, so not sure I could answer your question.
However given the choice between him and Clinton, I would have walked through barefoot through broken glass to vote for trump.
It's a real shame mcain didn't run, or win the nomination to run against Clinton.
Sorry to keep coming back to this BS but like I said I thought your answer was a bit scary, another question, trump's relationship with the christian conservatives appears to be driving the wind-back of women's rights and new laws in the US and in poor countries around the world. Does this effect how you think regarding having democrats in office rather than the republicans.
''Trump’s anti-abortion global gag rule threatening women's lives, report says
‘People are dying’ in Africa and south Asia as a result of policy that bans aid to foreign groups who support abortions, says author of report''
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/jun/05/trump-global-gag-rule-anti-abortion-harms-women-africa-asia-report
It's certainly something I don't agree with.
But it isn't a republican or democrat issue.
It's generally conservative/republicans that want to push these restrictions BS
''Abortion is a winning issue for Democrats – look at the historical record''
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/10/abortion-democrats-record-winning-issue
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Just for the record, it's well worth reading precisely what Mueller said. In his executive summary, he uses a very specific set of words. He says that it is beyond doubt that the Russian Govt interfered with the 2016 Election in Trump's favour. He also says that there were many links between Russian Govt agents and individuals connected with the Trump Campaign, but "the evidence (of collusion) is not sufficient to support criminal charges."
I guess that's what you're referring to when you say Trump is innocent because that's the line that has been widely reported.
Just bear in mind for a moment, the specific words Mueller used "evidence is not sufficient to support criminal charges".
Not, "we found no evidence.." Rather, "the evidence we did find wasn't sufficient to support prosecution."
Because evidence isn't black and white. There are levels and shades of grey. And if a Special Investigator was going to accuse the President's team of treason, he would need to have cast-iron, A1 evidence.
With that in mind, now look at what he says in the very next paragraph (and remember that Mueller is smarter than anyone you or I have ever met, and would not have done this by accident).
He says, "the investigation established that several individuals connected to the Trump campaign lied to the Office (i.e. the Mueller investigation) and to Congress about their interactions with Russia -affiliated individuals and other matters. Those lies materially affected the investigation."
So. Comment on Mueller's inability to establish sufficient evidence for criminal action, immediately followed by comments about Trump associates lying to impede the investigation.
He then goes on to list the people who he has had sent down for lying to him and Congress and "materially affecting the investigation". Papadopoulos, Flynn, Cohen and Manafort.
Four very close associates of Trump's. Mueller states categorically that all of them lied to prevent Mueller and/or Congress from finding out something about the Trump campaign's interaction with Russia. All four were prepared to do time for that.
Innocent until proven guilty, aye. Just like Mafia bosses often aren't found guilty because they have someone else take the fall to protect them.
EDIT.
Oh aye. I forgot to add. Mueller also says when talking about Trump's obstruction of the investigation (a Federal offence) that it was not his (Mueller's) role to determine guilt, but that if he had evidence that Trump was not guilty of obstruction, he would have said so. And he very pointedly said that he was not saying so.
So. Just stop and think.
There is the Special Investigator and ex-FBI chief saying in as clear a way as he is allowed to, that, if he were able to, he'd prosecute Trump for obstruction of the investigation into collusion with the Russians.
But...why would Trump have obstructed the investigation if he hadn't colluded with the Russians?
And why would 4 of his closest associated have obstructed the investigation into collusion with Russia and been prepared to serve time as a result, if there was no collusion with the Russians?
So the conclusion is, 'he might be guilty of collusion, but we can't prove it?'
No, it's 'there's a case to answer but I (Mueller) can't do anything about it, Congress has to do it'.
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BS
The conclusion is that there IS evidence but not strong enough to take to court. And one reason that the evidence isn't stronger is that 4 close associates lied under oath and went down. That's the story.
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Meanwhile back in Trump world
''Trump-Russia: House committee to see Mueller evidence
Deal comes as Democrats weigh up impeachment proceedings against Donald Trump''
''The House judiciary committee expects to receive the first files of underlying evidence from Robert Mueller’s report soon, after a sudden shift by the justice department as Democrats consider impeachment proceedings against Donald Trump.
It is unclear if the deal, announced moments before the start of a judiciary committee hearing with Watergate star witness John Dean, will ultimately be enough for Democrats, who have called for the full, unredacted report and underlying documentation from the special counsel’s work.
However, it signalled the first real breakthrough in the standoff over the report and came at the start of a week of increased activity by the House in the Trump-Russia investigation.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/11/trump-russia-house-committee-to-see-mueller-evidence
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Watch this. It is very important.
https://mobile.twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/1142261675095052288
Watch it. It's showing you where we are going and what we are normalising.
A Trump administration official stood in front of judges, justifying their policy of refusing to give soap and toothpaste to the children of migrants who have been separated from their parents and put in detainment camps.
Watch it. And ask yourself which side of history YOU want to be on when people look back on this era.
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Well, that last post didn't seem to raise any response from the Trump supporters in here.
What about this one?
https://mobile.twitter.com/Peston/status/1146562018096365573
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I'm sure that his spin team will be working on a way to twist it around completely.
There doesn't seem any depths he won't stoop to. I wonder how history will judge him when all is revealed about his political career.
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That's a great question Idler.
On his record to date I think he will be judged relatively kindly. His election campaign and personal conduct are not that remarkable for a US President and he has (so far) not involved them in any major international conflict.
Compare him for instance with:
George W Bush - allowed the conditions for the financial crash of 2008 and we and the Middle East are still suffering the fallout from the invasion of Iraq, ISIS, etc
Woodrow Wilson - took the US into WWI, crashed the post-war economy, saw his party humiliated in the next election and was one of the main movers behind punishing Germany in the Treaty of Versailles (which led to Hitler & WWII)
Richard Nixon - Watergate, impeachment, napalming villages, My Lai
Warren Harding (the bloke who succeeded Wilson) - notably corrupt, appointed friends and relatives to high government positions so blatantly that his Secretary of Interior was the first major official to be jailed for corruption whilst in office
Andrew Johnson - also impeached, tried to settle the fallout from the Civil War by introducing black segregation laws thereby nearly re-starting the war again
James Buchanan - interfered with the Supreme Court and oversaw the actual start of an actual Civil War that saw the death of over 1 million of his own people
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Very skewed take on Wilson, Wilts.
Wilson's policy was entirely aimed at keeping the USA out of WWI until the Zimmerman Telegram and unrestricted U-Boat action forced his hand. At Versailles, Wilson was by far the most far-sighted of the Big Four and restrained the worst of Clemenceau's desire for vengeance on Germany. The history of the 20th century might have been very different if Congress had allowed him to take the USA into the League of Nations. Yes, the American economy hit the buffers after the war, as every economy inevitably did after the dislocation of war in those days. It's highly unfair to blame him for Keynes not having written his General Theory in 1919.
Can't argue with the assessments of the other Presidents. It'd be interesting to hear your take on Soviet/Russian leaders one day.
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Well this could be interesting.
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Jeffrey-Epstein-Arrest-Sources-Upper-East-Side-Mansion--512309731.html
Long-term party-friend of Trump's is had up on charges of trafficking under-age girls for sex-parties.
Trump said of him, a few years ago, "I've known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He's a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side."
Just before the 2016 election, a woman abruptly dropped a legal case in which she'd claimed that Epstein had conned her into going to New York parties on the promise that he'd get her into the fashion model business. Instead, she claimed that she was coerced into a string of sexual acts with Trump, including play-acting a simulated rape that turned into an actual rape. She was 13 years old at the time.
Now, that never went to trial and it's nothing more than an untested allegation. But it'll be interesting to see what comes out of the Epstein case now that he's up in court. Because he's been in court before on child-sex allegations and he was effectively let off by the district attourney who dialed down the charges and let him get off with a plea-bargain which stopped him facing a charge that could have sent him down for life. That DA, incidentally, now has a very senior position in the Trump administration. And is under investigation by Congress for the way he let Epstein off previously.
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The Mueller report in 2 minutes, well worth a watch;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-CCxLmkn-w&feature=youtu.be
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My mind has boggled, thanks SM
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My mind has boggled, thanks SM
Amazing isn't it.
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It's verging on the unbelievable.
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Jesus wept. This is the President of the USA speaking, not some 70 IQ bed-bound internet fantasist.
https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1149345678814060545
Excellent response a few tweets down.
https://mobile.twitter.com/allyonthego/status/1149788539267272709
Well. One certainty. Trump has destroyed the concept of satire. Who's ever going to laugh again at a comedian putting ridiculously surreal words into the mouth of a politician.
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Re the tweet above: This “six more years or 10 or 14” makes me very nervous. The law was changed after FDR was president to limit a president to two four-year terms. I’m now seeing things said by him and other republicans in Congress that hint at a longer term, and wonder if they will try to change the law.
Also, some reporters are warning that intelligence has been obtained predicting that foreign interference in the 2020 elections will be like nothing we have experienced before, 10x or more invasive than it was at the 2016 election.
Not only that, but Mitch McConnell and the republicans have blocked legislation which overhauls the voting system in all states which would shore up our IT. He personally has benefitted from the Russians building a steel plant in Kentucky (the state he represents) which was brokered in a deal with a lobbyist (who was a former congressman who left under a cloud of sexual allegations) who now represents Russian interests and is married to a lawyer who miraculously has now become a judge! Omg. The rabbit hole just gets deeper...
Jesus sobbed and sobbed and sobbed!
Re the Mueller video above, thanks for posting that! It gives clarity and hope, but also highlights how slowly the wheels of justice turn.
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SL
I think it's inevitable that he'll try to have the two-terms rule over-written. He knows damn well that once he's lost the immunity from prosecution that Office gives him, he's in trouble. The Mueller Report couldn't have been clearer that he'd have been in the dock if he wasn't President.
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Billy, the thing that IS funny and ironic about Trump is that he can’t keep his mouth shut. He tweets about whatever is on his mind and he can’t keep secrets at all. That is how he was obstructing justice in plain sight (“I was thinking about Russia when I fired Comey”). This tweet about his term and the number of years, I agree, is something I think he is going to do. I was hoping I was wrong. But I do hope the media and Dems hear this and figure out what to do. There was talk earlier on of extending the timeframe for prosecution, but haven’t heard that recently. Also, does he do it now before the next election in case he loses? Or wait to see what the polls show about his prospects? Dangerous times. I think the biggest surprise for me in all of this is that the corruption is so pervasive and widespread.
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It's easy just to shrug your shoulders and ignore these days. But not very long ago, there wouldn't have been many folk support a leading politician saying this.
https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1150381394234941448
For the record, the two women he is telling to go back to where they came from were both born in America. Both are elected members of Congress.
And their crime? Pointing out that women in an American internment camp have had to drink water out of toilet bowls.
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Sorry Billy but I am afraid we are now at the stage where 'Donald Trump makes racist comment' is not news. What would be news is Donald Trump making a non-racist comment (or refusing to endorse Katy Hopkins).
It was four congresswomen btw, one of whom was born in Somalia, the other three all born in America but with non-American heritage. Like errr, Donald Trump.
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I know Wilts. But you have to keep calling it out or it really does become normalised. You have to keep pointing out that people who share his views are the minority and on the wrong side of history.
And yeah, I've seen now that it was more than just AOC and Tlaib that he was trolling (I'd seen the two of them on TV last night and assumed his tweet was aimed just at them.) AOC has entirely American heritage by the way. Her mother and paternal grandparents were from Puerto Rico. Which gives her a significantly greater call on American heritage than someone whose mother was from Scotland and paternal grandparents were from Germany. Like...err...Donald J Trump for example.
But, according to Trump supporters...
https://mobile.twitter.com/TtroseFl/status/1150501082046636033
See what I mean about them being on the wrong side of history? With logic like that, I'm struggling to imagine how she operates in the real world.
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Yes, correct Billy
I notice that Theresa May has finally seen the light and condemned him and the language he uses - a week before she leaves office!
If only you had done that when you first went to meet him and had not further legitimised him and his actions by giving him the honour of a state visit.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/trump-theresa-may-twitter-racist-aoc-ilhan-omar-cortez-a9005121.html
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Meanwhile, on the subject of nationality and domicile, the plot thickness in the case of Trump's old mate, Epstein.
https://mobile.twitter.com/DemocracyJourno/status/1150784726615187457
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It's easy just to shrug your shoulders and ignore these days. But not very long ago, there wouldn't have been many folk support a leading politician saying this.
https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1150381394234941448
For the record, the two women he is telling to go back to where they came from were both born in America. Both are elected members of Congress.
And their crime? Pointing out that women in an American internment camp have had to drink water out of toilet bowls.
What have you been told about twisting the facts?
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Go on. Which facts have been twisted?
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Trump and Facts on the same page? Is somebody trying to take the p1ss ?
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Meanwhile, it appears that in 2016, the Republicans pushed through a change to standing orders in Congress to the effect that in a debate in Congress, no-one is allowed to call the President a racist. Even when he is clearly a racist.
You are watching how it happens right in front of your eyes. No-one comes to power openly announcing that they are going to embrace fascism. It comes in bits. And it is facilitated when ordinary people shrug their shoulders and ignore it.
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Go on. Which facts have been twisted?
No response BS?
I'll give you some help.
THIS is twisting facts.
https://edition-m.cnn.com/2019/07/15/politics/trump-falsely-accuses-omar-al-qaeda-fact-check/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FSZOsVWf2hS
It's quite breathtaking isn't it? The Leader of the Free World lies in public more than 10 times a day (https://www.google.com/amp/s/beta.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/06/10/president-trump-has-made-false-or-misleading-claims-over-days/%3foutputType=amp) but all he has to do is grunt "Fake Nooos" and he's got a loyal army ready to block out any criticism of him.
I had a colleague who I later found out was fiddling the books at work and having an affair. He used to accuse others of fiddling (they weren't) and regularly told me his wife was playing away (she wasn't). It was like he had to accuse others to normalise his own behaviour. That is exactly what I see in Trump. He knows that he lies more regularly than he shits. So he has to normalise lying. If he can get people believing that no-one is honest and everyone lies, then his lies can be ignored.
Those of you who buy into this, you should be ashamed of yourselves.
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I'm not convinced they do buy into it BST. It's more about triggering the lefties.
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Go on. Which facts have been twisted?
No response BS?
I'll give you some help.
THIS is twisting facts.
https://edition-m.cnn.com/2019/07/15/politics/trump-falsely-accuses-omar-al-qaeda-fact-check/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FSZOsVWf2hS
It's quite breathtaking isn't it? The Leader of the Free World lies in public more than 10 times a day (https://www.google.com/amp/s/beta.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/06/10/president-trump-has-made-false-or-misleading-claims-over-days/%3foutputType=amp) but all he has to do is grunt "Fake Nooos" and he's got a loyal army ready to block out any criticism of him.
I had a colleague who I later found out was fiddling the books at work and having an affair. He used to accuse others of fiddling (they weren't) and regularly told me his wife was playing away (she wasn't). It was like he had to accuse others to normalise his own behaviour. That is exactly what I see in Trump. He knows that he lies more regularly than he shits. So he has to normalise lying. If he can get people believing that no-one is honest and everyone lies, then his lies can be ignored.
Those of you who buy into this, you should be ashamed of yourselves.
There's 4 of them not 2 as you claim.
Trump was referring to the 2 NOT born in the USA.
As for why he doesn't like them, there's alot more 2 it than what you claim.
For instance their policies on Israel, and their far left views.
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Go on. Which facts have been twisted?
No response BS?
I'll give you some help.
THIS is twisting facts.
https://edition-m.cnn.com/2019/07/15/politics/trump-falsely-accuses-omar-al-qaeda-fact-check/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FSZOsVWf2hS
It's quite breathtaking isn't it? The Leader of the Free World lies in public more than 10 times a day (https://www.google.com/amp/s/beta.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/06/10/president-trump-has-made-false-or-misleading-claims-over-days/%3foutputType=amp) but all he has to do is grunt "Fake Nooos" and he's got a loyal army ready to block out any criticism of him.
I had a colleague who I later found out was fiddling the books at work and having an affair. He used to accuse others of fiddling (they weren't) and regularly told me his wife was playing away (she wasn't). It was like he had to accuse others to normalise his own behaviour. That is exactly what I see in Trump. He knows that he lies more regularly than he shits. So he has to normalise lying. If he can get people believing that no-one is honest and everyone lies, then his lies can be ignored.
Those of you who buy into this, you should be ashamed of yourselves.
There's 4 of them not 2 as you claim.
Trump was referring to the 2 NOT born in the USA.
As for why he doesn't like them, there's alot more 2 it than what you claim.
For instance their policies on Israel, and their far left views.
Sometimes it's probably better just not to say anything
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BS.
Facts. You need to get them right.
I corrected my misunderstanding about it being 4 rather than 2. That's what you do when you get something wrong. You correct it.
https://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=270698.msg880451#msg880451
Now. Onto YOUR facts.
ONE of those 4 was born outside the USA.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashida_Tlaib Tlaib. Born in the USA.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandria_Ocasio-Cortez Ocasio-Cortez. Born in the USA.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayanna_Pressley Pressley. Born in the USA.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilhan_Omar Omar. Born in Somalia. Moved to USA as a refugee at 12 years old.
Trump was talking about Congresswomen. Plural. He lumped the lot of them in when he said "Why don’t they ("THEY", not "SHE", note) go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came." Where the f**k exactly was he suggesting that people born in America go back to? And why should it even dawn on his that they are not Americans?
This is the Leader of the Free World normalising the sort of attitudes and language that have been confined to far-right racists for two generations. He's basically saying if you're from a different ethnic heritage, you don't belong there. Whether that's a deliberate decision to classify them as "the other" or whether it's just a lazy "They've got funny skin colour, they must be from somewhere else" attitude is neither here nor there.
You've got two choices when you see this. You confront this attitude or you justify it. Depends on which side of history you want your grandkids to see you.
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There's 4 of them not 2 as you claim.
Trump was referring to the 2 NOT born in the USA.
As for why he doesn't like them, there's alot more 2 it than what you claim.
For instance their policies on Israel, and their far left views.
Hmm, interesting post as always BS. So:
-which 2 were NOT born in the USA?
-is he correct in his condemnation of Ocasio-Cortez (born in New York, 12 miles from where Trump himself was born) for her policy on Israel, which appears to be critisim of the Israeli government shooting 190 unarmed protestors in Gaza that is under investigation by the UN as a war crime
-which dangerous far left views are you referring to other than children should not be separated from their parents and locked up in cages/ the country would benefit from universal free healthcare (such as exists in Britain with the NHS)
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BS.
Facts. You need to get them right.
I corrected my misunderstanding about it being 4 rather than 2. That's what you do when you get something wrong. You correct it.
https://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=270698.msg880451#msg880451
Now. Onto YOUR facts.
ONE of those 4 was born outside the USA.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashida_Tlaib Tlaib. Born in the USA.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandria_Ocasio-Cortez Ocasio-Cortez. Born in the USA.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayanna_Pressley Pressley. Born in the USA.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilhan_Omar Omar. Born in Somalia. Moved to USA as a refugee at 12 years old.
Trump was talking about Congresswomen. Plural. He lumped the lot of them in when he said "Why don’t they ("THEY", not "SHE", note) go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came." Where the f**k exactly was he suggesting that people born in America go back to? And why should it even dawn on his that they are not Americans?
This is the Leader of the Free World normalising the sort of attitudes and language that have been confined to far-right racists for two generations. He's basically saying if you're from a different ethnic heritage, you don't belong there. Whether that's a deliberate decision to classify them as "the other" or whether it's just a lazy "They've got funny skin colour, they must be from somewhere else" attitude is neither here nor there.
You've got two choices when you see this. You confront this attitude or you justify it. Depends on which side of history you want your grandkids to see you.
OK then 1 not 2.
Substitute they for her, slight slip of the keyboard maybe.
As for the reasons for trumps outburst, there still is a hell of alot more to it than you claim.
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But you don't want to educate us all as to what the 'hell of a lot more' is?.
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See BS.
You're doing it. Excusing it. Normalising it.
It WASN'T a slip of the keyboard was it?
Because he said Congresswomen (plural). He said they came from countries (plural) that had governments (plural) that were among the most corrupt in the world. He said, "Why don’t they (plural) go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places (plural) from which they (plural) came."
He said "These (plural) places (plural) need your help."
So it wasn't a slip of the keyboard was it?
Look, if you're on his side, at least be man enough to embrace what he is. Don't try to explain it away and say it's a misunderstanding. Read what he said. Then look in the mirror and ask yourself which side you want to be on.
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Obviously he genuinely thought they all came from abroad.
Maybe his biggest mistake here was not realising they didn't.
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Now you are getting somewhere Boomstick - because you are thinking about what he said and why he said it. Here are some more pointers to help you on your way.
There are several people in congress who were born abroad, one or two who came from countries that match Trump's description. Why did he not refer to any of these people who more accurately fit his tweet?
What single characteristic do those four women have in common?
Why connection has this incident with the release of a video today showing Trump at a party in his house with a convicted paedophile?
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Obviously he genuinely thought they all came from abroad.
Maybe his biggest mistake here was not realising they didn't.
More likely he doesn't care what he says and who he denigrates and he's a big dumb shit.
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Obviously he genuinely thought they all came from abroad.
Maybe his biggest mistake here was not realising they didn't.
You might think it's obvious he genuinely thought that.
I think it's obvious he doesn't give a shit whether they do or not.
PS Still waiting for you to enlighten us what the 'hell of a lot more' is.
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Alright BS. I'll buy that.
He didn't know where they came from. So presumably when he wrote this...
https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1150381394234941448
...he was just guessing? He just assumed they came from (what he has previously called) shithouse countries because...
...well, because why? What is it about those 4 that might make a racist assume they come from shithouse countries?
Have some pride in yourself man. If you want to support a racist, support him. Stop debasing yourself by making stupid excuses for him.
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Here is an interesting observation about Trump which former FBI Director James Comey said during a recent interview. When asked why Republicans go along with him and his lies, he said that when you are in a meeting with him surrounded by his cabinet or others and Trump states something which everyone knows is untrue (i.e. the size of his inaugural crowd) that people don’t challenge him on it. And so on it goes. Lies are told over and over, get bigger and bigger, and not challenged; therefore by virtue of the fact that no one questions or corrects him, they knowingly are swept up and become complicit in them. Comey says many, many people around him don’t have the strength to combat it.
As for his racist tweets towards the congresswomen, I believe he does it on purpose to create a foe and a distraction. He doesn’t have Hillary to attack so he goes to his base and creates a new bad guy. He is trying to make these women the face of the Democratic Party and their views as being those of all democrats. I do agree he needs to be called out on these racist tweets and was very glad of yesterday’s House Resolution to condemn his racism, but the Dems are trying to be unifying while trying not to divide everyone further and it’s a tough line to walk. Mueller will testify next week and hopefully he can be interviewed in a way which clarifies his report and puts to bed Trump’s lies on the outcome of the report, (No collusion/No obstruction) put forth before anyone was able to read the report by AG Barr, purposely obscuring the truth. Maybe the facts from Mueller himself will lead more people to support impeachment.
Also, I read recently an opinion on why republicans continue to support him. They said because he is their Republican President and there isn’t anyone else in line. Also I think the economy doing well causes them to ignore his racist views and Russian leanings. They, like him, don’t believe that Russia is a threat to democracy around the world. Consequently Trump, through his lies and money making schemes in UAE, Israel, Moscow (which are affecting our foreign policy towards them), plays perfectly into Putin’s grand scheme.
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How long before another one of these MAGA nutjobs goes after one of these women?
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Alright BS. I'll buy that.
He didn't know where they came from. So presumably when he wrote this...
https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1150381394234941448
...he was just guessing? He just assumed they came from (what he has previously called) shithouse countries because...
...well, because why? What is it about those 4 that might make a racist assume they come from shithouse countries?
Have some pride in yourself man. If you want to support a racist, support him. Stop debasing yourself by making stupid excuses for him.
I despise racism.
But what I don't like is snowflakes crying racism when it isn't.
It's dangerous and waters down and weakens the word.
I'm not saying trump isn't racist, but crying racism every time he says something you disagree with is weak.
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Alright BS. I'll buy that.
He didn't know where they came from. So presumably when he wrote this...
https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1150381394234941448
...he was just guessing? He just assumed they came from (what he has previously called) shithouse countries because...
...well, because why? What is it about those 4 that might make a racist assume they come from shithouse countries?
Have some pride in yourself man. If you want to support a racist, support him. Stop debasing yourself by making stupid excuses for him.
I despise racism.
But what I don't like is snowflakes crying racism when it isn't.
It's dangerous and waters down and weakens the word.
I'm not saying trump isn't racist, but crying racism every time he says something you disagree with is weak.
''I despise racism''
An admirable trait, racism is abhorrent and has caused grief across the millennia, William Wilberforce if I remember my schooling such that it was, was a respected local lad (Hull I think) campaigner against slavery.
To give trump the benefit of the doubt is to give him a free pass, he has at his fingertips the best advisors that money can buy, they could brief him on every detail possible to know about those he chooses to abuse but he prefers to abuse them to denigrate them because it suits him. If you want me to believe that you truly hate racism then I think you need to reassess your benchmarks on trump.
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"Trump's not a racist, he just talks and acts like one."
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Alright BS. I'll buy that.
He didn't know where they came from. So presumably when he wrote this...
https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1150381394234941448
...he was just guessing? He just assumed they came from (what he has previously called) shithouse countries because...
...well, because why? What is it about those 4 that might make a racist assume they come from shithouse countries?
Have some pride in yourself man. If you want to support a racist, support him. Stop debasing yourself by making stupid excuses for him.
I despise racism.
But what I don't like is snowflakes crying racism when it isn't.
It's dangerous and waters down and weakens the word.
I'm not saying trump isn't racist, but crying racism every time he says something you disagree with is weak.
I don't cry "racist" everytime he says "something". I cry "racist" everytime he says something racist. How can telling someone (born in the USA, of a non-white European heritage) to go back to the country they came from be construed as anything other than racist? If that is not racist language then what the hell is?
What do you do? You're not saying Trump isn't a racist, but all you've done here, when he has categorically and unquestionably been throwing racist abuse around, is to make excuses for him. Embarrassing yourself by claiming that it was a slip of the typing finger by Trump, when it's bleeding obvious what he is doing.
So, if this isn't racist, what WOULD be your red line?
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Aye, everybody cried 'racist' when he said he wouldn't deal with Kim Darroch any more, didn't they? :silly:
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Trump didn't say anything at his last rally when the crowd started chanting ' Send her back' in reference to Ilhan Omar. He's stirring up racism, he said 'Let 'em leave', he has no shame.
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Big day for Mueller but a massive day for trump
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I think you're overplaying it Sydney.
Mueller's been consistent for months. He's said: there's your evidence Congress - YOU decide if you're going to impeach him.
Can't see anything changing today.
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This seemed bizarre at first.
https://mobile.twitter.com/BBCPolitics?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1153700010019688448&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.politicshome.com%2Fnews%2Fworld%2Funited-states%2Fdonald-trump%2Fnews%2F105514%2Fwatch-donald-trump-labels-boris-johnson-britain
"Britain Trump"? I know Trump isn't the sharpest knife in the box, but a 6 year old would know that doesn't make grammatical sense. "British Trump" or "Britain's Trump", yeah, but "Britain Trump"?
Then it clicked. You've got to think like the speechwriter.
Say it with a Russian accent and it sounds right...
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I think you're overplaying it Sydney.
Mueller's been consistent for months. He's said: there's your evidence Congress - YOU decide if you're going to impeach him.
Can't see anything changing today.
It depends whether he wants to ''speak freely'' as Nadler is urging. If he does then there are pizza boxes of information. With only around a third of democrats wanting impeachment at present it wouldn't take much to get that to 50% wouldn't you think?
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Impeaching Trump would be a disaster. He deserves it, no question. But in the current political environment, it would be a very bad thing to do. There's 30% of Americans who don't believe Trump can do any wrong. And they'd be fed Fox News shit telling them this was the Establishment taking down their man. Impeachment would quite possibly lead to civil unrest in that atmosphere.
The Democrats have to play it by weakening Trump, keeping the white nationalists marginalised and banking on pulling in enough sensible voters to beat Trump next year.
Then, when he's not got the protection of Office, let the prosecutors have him.
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I thought this a fair assessment.
''Finally, while we would not sink to name-calling in the Trumpian manner – or ruefully point out that he failed to spell the congressman’s name correctly (it’s Cummings, not Cumming) – we would tell the most dishonest man to ever occupy the Oval Office, the mocker of war heroes, the gleeful grabber of women’s private parts, the serial bankrupter of businesses, the useful idiot of Vladimir Putin and the guy who insisted there are “good people” among murderous neo-Nazis that he’s still not fooling most Americans into believing he’s even slightly competent in his current post. Or that he possesses a scintilla of integrity. Better to have some vermin living in your neighborhood than to be one''
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/29/baltimore-sun-editorial-trump
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Just when you thought the Trump administration could not be any more abhorrent...
https://mobile.twitter.com/AlexLoveWJTV/status/1159264049105973248
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In other news Amnesty International have issued a warning for travelers and visitors to the US 'due to ongoing rampant gun violence'
https://twitter.com/amnesty/status/1159193528787963905
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Just when you thought the Trump administration could not be any more abhorrent...
https://mobile.twitter.com/AlexLoveWJTV/status/1159264049105973248
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cP5---17O4s
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Well here's today's installment.
https://mobile.twitter.com/FLOTUS/status/1159511786695069697
That picture bottom left.
Melania holding a baby at El Paso hospital and Trump gurning at the side of her and giving a thumbs up.
That baby's parents were both shot dead by the white supremacist who went on a killing spree in El Paso. The mother was shot as she curled up protecting the baby.
And that vile, disgusting excuse for a human being and his wife use it as a phot-op and they stand there smiling and giving a thumbs up. A f**king thumbs-up.
Beyond words...
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49306032
This stinks to high heaven.
Here's a man who potentially had incriminating evidence on both Trump and Bill Clinton.
The most important inmate in the USA.
He had already attempted suicide once in custody.
He was taken off suicide watch before he (apparently) killed himself.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49306032
This stinks to high heaven.
Here's a man who potentially had incriminating evidence on both Trump and Bill Clinton.
The most important inmate in the USA.
He had already attempted suicide once in custody.
He was taken off suicide watch before he (apparently) killed himself.
Don’t forget the potential evidence against on of the Royal Family, it seems people in high places get things done to protect their own, and not only in Russia
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And the Leader of the Free World re-tweets this.
https://mobile.twitter.com/w_terrence/status/1160256105399967744
Strange times...
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This is about 2 mths old but very trumpian
''The Saga of Jerry Falwell Jr.’s Bizarre Relationship With a Miami Beach Pool Boy, Explained''
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-jerry-falwell-jr-miami-beach-pool-boy-evang
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Yet another low.
https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1162000480681287683
Calling on a foreign Govt to bar elected US politicians from visiting that country.
The damage he is doing by normalising this racist vindictiveness...
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Yet another low.
https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1162000480681287683
Calling on a foreign Govt to bar elected US politicians from visiting that country.
The damage he is doing by normalising this racist vindictiveness...
You'd have thought that the Great Donald would have taken the lead and shown Israel how to handle this by banning them from leaving the US!
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''Hong Kong: Trump calls on Xi to talk to protesters as weekend rallies loom''
I wonder what The Trump would say if Xi had said 'maybe you should sort out your dumb gun laws'?
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WTF?!
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49367792
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49306032
This stinks to high heaven.
Here's a man who potentially had incriminating evidence on both Trump and Bill Clinton.
The most important inmate in the USA.
He had already attempted suicide once in custody.
He was taken off suicide watch before he (apparently) killed himself.
Don’t forget the potential evidence against on of the Royal Family, it seems people in high places get things done to protect their own, and not only in Russia
If this is the panicked quality of statement that Prince Andrew is putting out, I'd say he's cacking his Solomons.
https://mobile.twitter.com/MarinaHyde/status/1165250086139564032
Like that Twitter thread says, he's basically saying (in tortuously garbled English) "Yes I carried on regularly staying at the house of a paedophile who had been convicted of soliciting a 14 year old girl for sex, but I didn't think he was a bad man."
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49306032
This stinks to high heaven.
Here's a man who potentially had incriminating evidence on both Trump and Bill Clinton.
The most important inmate in the USA.
He had already attempted suicide once in custody.
He was taken off suicide watch before he (apparently) killed himself.
Don’t forget the potential evidence against on of the Royal Family, it seems people in high places get things done to protect their own, and not only in Russia
If this is the panicked quality of statement that Prince Andrew is putting out, I'd say he's cacking his Solomons.
https://mobile.twitter.com/MarinaHyde/status/1165250086139564032
Like that Twitter thread says, he's basically saying (in tortuously garbled English) "Yes I carried on regularly staying at the house of a paedophile who had been convicted of soliciting a 14 year old girl for sex, but I didn't think he was a bad man."
I can't believe that nobody at the Palace told him to steer well clear of someone convicted of paedophilia.
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And then there's his choice of words. "I am at a loss to be able to explain or understand Mr Epstein's lifestyle."
His what? His lifestyle? His f**king LIFESTYLE?
Let's be clear. Epstein was convicted of soliciting a 14 year old for prostitution. He was under arrest for having had a pipeline of such girls for his rich and powerful friends. And Prince Andrew, in a press communiqué meant to absolve himself of any involvement, calls that a LIFESTYLE?
I'd have thought "disgusting and depraved criminal action" would be a suitable description, but Prince Andrew prefers "lifestyle". Like we're talking about Epstein's choice of personal trainer and his favourite colour of tie.
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Meanwhile, it's nice to see that tradition of playing the "Point Out the Biggest Kitson at the G7" game is still being observed.
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Would you buy a used car from either of these two?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/08/25/donald-trump-insists-boris-johnson-right-man-deliver-brexit/
Boris thought bubble: I hope he wore a condom?
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They're like tweedle dum and tweedle dee.
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Meanwhile, a tiny insight into the mind of the Liar in Chief.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49587232
This is so achingly sad, you almost feel sorry for him.
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Meanwhile, a tiny insight into the mind of the Liar in Chief.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49587232
This is so achingly sad, you almost feel sorry for him.
And again it shows the contempt that he and our own pet liar have for the people.
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At it again. The failure of a businessman propping up his failing businesses through corrupt practices.
His Turnberry golf course is haemorrhaging money. £20m loss over two years.
And then whaddya know? The US Air Force start using it as stop-over accommodation for flights which have suddenly started landing at Prestwick for re-fuelling.
It's beyond believe, the stunts this criminal will pull.
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This is insane.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49642658
A senior Trump official, calling senior weather scientists and threatening them with the sack for telling the truth and embarrassing Trump.
f**king hell. No comedy, no drama, no novel could have made this up. But it's happening right here and now.
The scientific truth must be discarded to stop the Man-Child-in-Chief from having a tantrum.
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I see he has sacked John Bolton. I thought my computer had been hacked...
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Well at least he's got one up on the FL if he's taken action against Bolton.
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But seriously. Imagine how much of a headcase Boulton is, if he's too extreme for Trump.
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This.
https://www.bradford-delong.com/2019/09/comment-of-the-day-_rwhttpswwwbradford-delongcom201909aldous-huxley-_brave-new-worldhttpwwwmicroethologyneton.html
I remember reading Brave New World years ago and thinking....but...but...people could never be THAT lacking in interest as the smart folk took their freedom away and told them they were doing it to make them free...
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NYT: whistleblower complaint involves 'multiple acts by Trump'
The whistleblower complaint at the heart of an extraordinary standoff between Congress and the intelligence community is said to involve “multiple acts” by the president, according to the New York Times.
Michael Atkinson, the inspector general for the intelligence community, revealed to lawmakers on Thursday that the complaint involved multiple acts, the Times reported, citing two officials familiar with the situation.
Lawmakers said Atkinson declined to discuss specifics during a briefing with the panel and would not say if the complaint involved the president.
The Washington Post reported on Wednesday that the complaint involves a “promise” Trump made during a phone conversation with a foreign leader.
Trump on Twitter scoffed at the assertion that he would make such a commitment on a telephone call that he knew might be listened to by intelligence officers from the US and other countries.
Time Magazine is reporting that one of Trump’s phone calls with a foreign leader involved a commitment related to US foreign policy that the whistleblower found troubling.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2019/sep/19/trump-news-today-live-whistleblower-complaint-democrats-climate-latest-news
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I loved that bit.
"Trump on Twitter scoffed at the assertion that he would make such a commitment on a telephone call that he knew might be listened to by intelligence officers from the US and other countries."
That's Trump who inadvertently gave classified intelligence to the Russian ambassador at the White House. And it's the President who tweeted about intelligence issues that led to a mole the Americans had in the Kremlin being exposed and having to be lifted out.
It's the President who said in live TV that he sacked Coney "because of this Trump-Russia thing", thereby admitting an impeachable offence.
So yeah. Who believes he could be so stupid as to commit an impeachable offence in a phone call to a foreign President? Apart from every f**ker who thinks about it for more than 3 seconds.
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Here's Trump's tweet.
https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1174696521914339328
Fascinating.
See, if I were innocent and pushing back on this, I'd say, "Is anybody dumb enough to think that I would say anything inappropriate in a call with a foreign leader?"
It wouldn't dawn on me to add the comment that other people would be listening in. And then to say "not that I'd do anything wrong anyway" as an afterthought.
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Donald Chump
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Hi this is Don here, I want to make a complete ass of myself, but first I'll deny it then get that idiot lawyer of mine Giuliani dig the hole wider and deeper then I'll claim it's all above board and nothing to see here, signed Donald Chump,
By the way, I love the Ukraine and all the people there, I have great conversations with them, the best, they love me :woohoo:
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Nancy Pelosi intends to announce a formal impeachment inquiry against Trump later today, according to the Washington Post.
The Post reports:
The announcement later Tuesday from Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) comes amid reports that President Trump may have pressured a foreign leader to investigate former vice president and potential 2020 campaign rival Joe Biden and his family.
A growing number of House Democrats are backing an impeachment inquiry as momentum shifts in the Democratic caucus.
Democratic officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to speak frankly, said she would back the step.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2019/sep/24/trump-and-johnson-to-meet-amid-impeachment-and-brexit-woes-live?page=with:block-5d8a62d38f084ab84172c72d#block-5d8a62d38f084ab84172c72d
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So.
The Democrats have finally hit the Impeachment button.
Not sure it's the best political move as it will only cement those who support Trump regardless.
But
Sometimes you've just got to uphold the law. If he's really been encouraging a foreign country to interfere in the next election ...
...again!
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......And you don't like him!
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He's in a spot of bother now isn't he.
So he's on record as having blocked $400m of military aid to Ukraine at precisely the same time that the Ukrainian president asked him for that aid, and Trump said he needed Ukraine's help digging dirt against his likely election opponent next year.
And then the White House tried to cover that up.
That's as open and shut a case of impeachable offences as you are going to find.
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and that's just the tip of the iceberg
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If trump had a brain he'd be a hell of a lot more dangerous
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trump should put a stop to these bootleg recordings of his stand-up routine:
Audio of Trump comparing whistleblower's source to a 'spy' is released
The LA Times has released audio of Trump’s event with UN staffers this morning, where the president addressed the release of the whistleblower complaint.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2019/sep/26/donald-trump-ukraine-live-news-latest-us-politics?page=with:block-5d8d149a8f08fbb0c171c34f#block-5d8d149a8f08fbb0c171c34f
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This is now bigger than Ben-Hur and looks likely to drag down many others in the whirlpool, it's such a shame, I like trump he brought a refreshing change to world and US politics. :)
White House tried to cover up Trump's Ukraine conversation, whistleblower alleges
Pelosi condemns White House for trying to keep details from public, while Trump compares whistleblower’s source to ‘a spy’
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/sep/26/slug-trump-ukraine-latest-whistleblower-complaint-2020-election
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The Senate won't pass the impeachment though. I do wonder what he would have to do for the Republicans to turn on him.
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I think trump now has the edge on johnson :)
Trump has now jumped from the argument that the whistleblower complaint represented “secondhand information,” as he first argued yesterday, to claiming that the information may have been entirely fabricated.
Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump)
Sounding more and more like the so-called Whistleblower isn’t a Whistleblower at all. In addition, all second hand information that proved to be so inaccurate that there may not have even been somebody else, a leaker or spy, feeding it to him or her? A partisan operative?
September 27, 2019
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2019/sep/27/donald-trump-ukraine-live-news-latest-us-politics?page=with:block-5d8e127a8f08fbb0c171ca33#block-5d8e127a8f08fbb0c171ca33
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The Senate won't pass the impeachment though. I do wonder what he would have to do for the Republicans to turn on him.
You're right about the impeachment. It's a dangerous route to go down, because unless it's 100% watertight it won't get through the Senate; and a failed impeachment can hand a sitting President the next election on a plate, as what happened with Bill Clinton.
I'm a bit surprised at Nancy Pelosi, a woman I admire tremendously as both a politician and a person, after the way she continuously held off impeachment during the Mueller report, but has now gone the other way. The opinion of some pundits on last night's news broadcasts was that she may have succumbed to the hard left, which might not be a very wise move.
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The Muller Report unquestionably made a case for impeachment but the way that Barr spun it made it easy for the Republicans to push back against it. Muller laid out 10 examples of Obstruction of Justice but because Barr took the lead in saying Muller had exonerated Trump (he 100% had not) that concept took root. You for one have never accepted that was a lie SS, even after Muller published a letter to Barr telling him that Barr had totally misrepresented the facts in the report.
This one is different. It's a slam dunk factual case of impeachable behaviour.
Sometimes, politicians DO have to act to preserve democracy, even if it is not in their party's best interests.
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The Muller Report unquestionably made a case for impeachment but the way that Barr spun it made it easy for the Republicans to push back against it. Muller laid out 10 examples of Obstruction of Justice but because Barr took the lead in saying Muller had exonerated Trump (he 100% had not) that concept took root. You for one have never accepted that was a lie SS, even after Muller published a letter to Barr telling him that Barr had totally misrepresented the facts in the report.
This one is different. It's a slam dunk factual case of impeachable behaviour.
Sometimes, politicians DO have to act to preserve democracy, even if it is not in their party's best interests.
There's not much democracy being preserved by many of our politicians, in any of the parties.
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See, there you go again SS.
Claiming that everyone is as bad means that you don't separate anyone.
Tell me what Obama did that comes remotely close to the illegality and venality of Trump.
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This would be hilarious if it wasn't such a frightening window into the incompetence and childish self-importance of the most powerful man in the world.
He tweeted about Congressman Adam Schiff who is a good few inches shorter than Trump.
For some bizarre reason, he called him Liddle' Adam Schiff.
CNN, understandably thought he meant Little Adam Schiff.
This was the thing that Trump considered THE most important thing to address when he dragged himself out of his pit this morning.
https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1177539052683309056
So he claims Liddle didn't mean Little. Ok. He's upset because someone questioned his spelling and grammar and whether he is the intellectual giant he claims.
And in petulantly replying, he confuses an apostrophe for a hyphen, and mis-spells "describing".
It would literally be too stupid to laugh at in a comedy show.
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''Former Ukrainian prosecutor says he spoke to Giuliani 'maybe 10 times'
Former Ukrainian prosecutor Yuriy Lutsenko said in an interview that he spoke with Rudy Giuliani, the president’s personal lawyer, “maybe 10 times.”
Giuliani, the lawyer who thinks like a comedian, or in fact doesn't think
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2019/sep/27/donald-trump-ukraine-live-news-latest-us-politics?page=with:block-5d8e57c08f08fbb0c171cdb9#block-5d8e57c08f08fbb0c171cdb9
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See, there you go again SS.
Claiming that everyone is as bad means that you don't separate anyone.
Tell me what Obama did that comes remotely close to the illegality and venality of Trump.
I was talking about the lack of democracy in our politics. Nothing to do with Obama.
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Same shit different country Steve, trying to say that other parties are as bad as the tories is lazy politics and I think deep down you know this. Maybe labour or the libdems have pissed you off in the past but this tory government is a nightmare, another league and there is no comparison.
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SS.
Apologies if I misread you. I think we were talking about different things.
If you mean that the politicians don't represent your views, that's one thing. No political party fully represents my views at the moment. So I'll have to make a compromise at the next election. And that's the thing. You can vote for someone who most closely matches your views and if you don't like how they behave when they are elected, you can vote for someone else. Not perfect but it's how democracy works. And like Churchill said: democracy is the worst form of Govt ever devised by man. Except for all the other kinds.
I was meaning something different though. I was talking about politicians who deliberately undermine the processes that underpin democracy. That's a different kettle of fish altogether.
In Trump's case, we have a President who has clearly committed impeachable offences. But there's zero chance of him being ejected, because his party places not being a Democrat as a higher thing than not being a criminal.
That undermines the democratic processes. Especially given that the Republicans have an almost hard-wired Senate majority, because every State has two Senators regardless of population. And most of the tiny population States are Republican-supporting. So it's very, very difficult for the Democrats to get control if the Senate. And if the Republicans support their President whatever he does, that means a criminal like Trump is literally unimpeachable.
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Same shit different country Steve, trying to say that other parties are as bad as the tories is lazy politics and I think deep down you know this. Maybe labour or the libdems have pissed you off in the past but this tory government is a nightmare, another league and there is no comparison.
As I've said before Sydney, I've no political allegiancies. As a young man, a coal miner, I naturally was a socialist. That was when the Labour Party represented working class people, particularly in heavy industry in the North. It has now become the party of the London Metropolitan Elite. Just look at where the constituencies of all the Labour leaders are. Also, of course, I feel utterly betrayed by them over Brexit.
I would never consider voting Tory because of what they did to the mining industry. As for the Lib Dems, just think 2010; and think of that disgusting slogan on their T shirts recently, and that's enough said.
Is all that clear enough for you?
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SS.
Did you vote Labour when the leader was MP for Doncaster North? And the Shadow Chancellor was MP for Morley? And the Shadow Foreign Secretary was MP for Pontefract?
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SS.
Did you vote Labour when the leader was MP for Doncaster North? And the Shadow Chancellor was MP for Morley? And the Shadow Foreign Secretary was MP for Pontefract?
I've not voted for Labour since 1997, when, along with most people, I fell for the Blair con.
However, there have been one or two people in the Labour Party who I would have liked to see as leader, none more so than Andy Burnham. He comes over as a fair, sensible, straight talking guy. Only today, he was stressing the importance of respecting Leave voters.
He could be a leader in the future, once his mayorship is over.
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So that comment about where Labour's leaders have their constituencies was pointless then?
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As I've said before Sydney, I've no political allegiancies. As a young man, a coal miner, I naturally was a socialist. That was when the Labour Party represented working class people, particularly in heavy industry in the North. It has now become the party of the London Metropolitan Elite. Just look at where the constituencies of all the Labour leaders are.
Unlike of course someone like the Brexit Party. Who are not actually a political party at all (they have no members or manifesto) but a corporate fundraising vehicle for the millionaire, ex-city corporate banker and long time member of the Brussels EU elite, one Mr N Faragae.
Among whose backers are the multi-millionaire property developer Richard Tice, the billionaire farmer (highest personal recipient of EU farming grants in the UK) and entrepeneur James Dyson, whose patriotism saw him move his tax headquarters to Singapore, the millionaire insurance salesman and errr 'diamond miner' the source of which millions are in some dispute, the millionaire financial trader James Mellon who 'had a good day after Brexit'.
These are the non-metropolitian non-elites who represent the working class are they?
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So that comment about where Labour's leaders have their constituencies was pointless then?
Not really, seeing as it's what a lot of political journalists are saying.
Are you argumentative by nature, or is it just when you're on here?
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As I've said before Sydney, I've no political allegiancies. As a young man, a coal miner, I naturally was a socialist. That was when the Labour Party represented working class people, particularly in heavy industry in the North. It has now become the party of the London Metropolitan Elite. Just look at where the constituencies of all the Labour leaders are.
Unlike of course someone like the Brexit Party. Who are not actually a political party at all (they have no members or manifesto) but a corporate fundraising vehicle for the millionaire, ex-city corporate banker and long time member of the Brussels EU elite, one Mr N Faragae.
Among whose backers are the multi-millionaire property developer Richard Tice, the billionaire farmer (highest personal recipient of EU farming grants in the UK) and entrepeneur James Dyson, whose patriotism saw him move his tax headquarters to Singapore, the millionaire insurance salesman and errr 'diamond miner' the source of which millions are in some dispute, the millionaire financial trader James Mellon who 'had a good day after Brexit'.
These are the non-metropolitian non-elites who represent the working class are they?
We'll find out the answer to that last sentence when the GE comes around Wilts.
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SS.
The GE won't answer the question that Wilts sets.
Yes, the BP may well pick up a lot of working class votes. But that won't change the fact that they have zero interest in representing the interests of the working class.
Did you see their big announcement the other day on tax policy. If they end up with MPs, a price for providing support to a Govt in Parliament will be abolishing Inheritance Tax.
That's a £5.2bn/year tax cut for the richest few percent of the population. To be paid for either by higher taxes for the rest of us, or less money for public services.
They are weaponising your frustration. But not to help YOU. To help THEM.
Do you truly not see this?
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The US Guardian:
China being really close buddies with trump right at this moment, this is beyond mad, this is peak insanity.
''House intelligence committee chair Adam Schiff is less than impressed with Trump’s request that China also investigate Joe Biden... from Politico reporter Andrew Desiderio:
Andrew Desiderio (@AndrewDesiderio)
Schiff emerges from Volker deposition, won’t comment since it hasn’t concluded yet, but says Trump’s Ukraine/China comments this morning were “repugnant” and “a fundamental breach of his oath of office.”
October 3, 2019
I’m sure we’ll hear more from Schiff before the day is out''
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2019/oct/03/trump-news-today-live-impeachment-updates-ukraine-bernie-sanders-latest?page=with:block-5d9631bf8f084ab841732279#block-5d9631bf8f084ab841732279
Any trump supporters here want to jump in and defend your man?
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Yep. This is beyond batshit.
https://youtu.be/rLdqhpsrbUE
This is a US President committing treason in front of the world's cameras. He's asking a foreign Govt, in public to interfere in a US presidential election.
How do the Republican Senators see that and have any excuse for exonerating him in the upcoming impeachment hearing?
More concerning, given that he's just publicly parted company with any sense of logic or understanding of the real world, I hope there's always someone between him and the nuclear football.
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And yet there's more, it gets bigger and angrier as the days go on, just read this latest bit on the mad orange from hell.
''As Trump's lies reach new heights, has the media reached a tipping point?
As the impeachment inquiry closes in, the media faces a challenge in finding new ways to hold the US president accountable''
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/oct/04/as-trumps-lies-reach-new-heights-have-the-media-reached-a-tipping-point
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Don't know if the media has reached a tipping point, but probably more importantly, the public has.
https://mobile.twitter.com/JohnJHarwood/status/1180211064648142851
The Republican party has shown itself to have no morality, no sense of outrage at criminal activity, no sense of shame at supporting this crook. But they do want to win. And as soon as Trump becomes a liability to them electorally, they will kill him.
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Beyond belief that Trump is pulling out of North Syria and leaving Turkey a free hand to attack the Kurds.
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Who talks about themselves like this? https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1181232249821388801?s=09
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Jesus. He's turned into Ming The Merciless.
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Come on you Trump supporters. Line up and give us your take on the Syrian Kurds. Vital, brave allies against IS. Who have now been thrown to the wolves by that disgusting apology for a human being.
Do you support his justification?
https://mobile.twitter.com/atrupar/status/1182039818773155841
He's a monster. An absolute monster. And as thick as a bucket of monkey spunk.
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Come on you Trump supporters. Line up and give us your take on the Syrian Kurds. Vital, brave allies against IS. Who have now been thrown to the wolves by that disgusting apology for a human being.
Do you support his justification?
https://mobile.twitter.com/atrupar/status/1182039818773155841
He's a monster. An absolute monster. And as thick as a bucket of monkey spunk.
Link doesn't work. Is it the WW2 comment?
https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1182047709894774784?s=19 (https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1182047709894774784?s=19)
What a shambles of a man.
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Yes that's the one.
Of course,the decision to give Erdogan the green light here is nothing to do with the Trump family's business interests in Turkey.
They go back a long way.
https://mobile.twitter.com/IvankaTrump/status/193337302066540545?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-35657601683516563530.ampproject.net%2F1910071803120%2Fframe.html
How can ANY of you not be disgusted by this monster?
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According to the Independent website the slime ball is also now supporting the yankee diplomats wife , who ran down the British lad and then used diplomatic immunity to f@ck back to Trumpland.
And there are people here who support him and think he will rescue us if we turn into a a Brexit sh@thole
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Here Foxbat.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-harry-dunn-anne-sacoolas-car-crash-us-diplomat-uk-a9149746.html
He makes a joke about it. He's talking about a kid being killed by a f**king entitled idiot behind a steering wheel. And he turns it into a joke.
Every day I think he can't become more utterly repulsive. Every day he surprises me.
But f**k it hey? He sticks it to the libs, so he can't do anything wrong in some people's eyes.
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Everyday here there is a fresh Hell. Trump betraying allies, pulling out of treaties, Selling America out to anyone who will give him what he wants, reneging on promises, ignoring congressional oversight, and now with the invasion of Syria and the atrocities which are bound to come will surely be blood on his hands.
As for diplomatic immunity, how is it possible that there can be any immunity for vehicular manslaughter? I certainly am not familiar with what immunity covers, but it seems like craziness. But of course Trump will block any attempt to waive immunity and send the diplomats wife back to face justice because he himself is so lawless.
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He has no empathy.
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After watching US TV shows featuring Presidents I was under the impression they had a team of writers carefully crafting every word a President said. NOPE.
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Everyday here there is a fresh Hell. Trump betraying allies, pulling out of treaties, Selling America out to anyone who will give him what he wants, reneging on promises, ignoring congressional oversight, and now with the invasion of Syria and the atrocities which are bound to come will surely be blood on his hands.
As for diplomatic immunity, how is it possible that there can be any immunity for vehicular manslaughter? I certainly am not familiar with what immunity covers, but it seems like craziness. But of course Trump will block any attempt to waive immunity and send the diplomats wife back to face justice because he himself is so lawless.
Here you go Sandy, an explanation from the BBC;
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p07qgbqp
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I'm in a big hole Rudy give me hand will you: sure, I'll keep digging over here, it's sure is nice working with you Don.
''Two Republican donors who reportedly have ties to Rudy Giuliani's dealings in Ukraine have been arrested on campaign finance charges, a spokesman for the Manhattan US Attorney's office has revealed.
Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman are expected to appear in a federal court in Virginia later today after allegedly conspiring to "funnel foreign money to candidates for federal and state office" as well as making false statements to the Federal Election Commission and falsifying records - according to a federal court filing in New York.
Records show they used wire transfers from a corporate entity they controlled to make a $325,000 donation to the America First Action committee, a superPAC that supports Donald Trump, in 2018''
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/giuliani-trump-impeachment-ukraine-probe-republican-donors-lev-parnas-igor-fruman-a9150661.html
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Everyday here there is a fresh Hell. Trump betraying allies, pulling out of treaties, Selling America out to anyone who will give him what he wants, reneging on promises, ignoring congressional oversight, and now with the invasion of Syria and the atrocities which are bound to come will surely be blood on his hands.
As for diplomatic immunity, how is it possible that there can be any immunity for vehicular manslaughter? I certainly am not familiar with what immunity covers, but it seems like craziness. But of course Trump will block any attempt to waive immunity and send the diplomats wife back to face justice because he himself is so lawless.
Here you go Sandy, an explanation from the BBC;
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p07qgbqp
Cheers SM. Interesting and informative podcast, but a very sad story.
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Her husband is not included on the Diplomatic List, which means that she cannot lawfully claim immunity.
Not that this will move Trump, as he has no interest in supporting the UK legal process.
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Her husband is not included on the Diplomatic List, which means that she cannot lawfully claim immunity.
Not that this will move Trump, as he has no interest in supporting the UK legal process.
If that's true, is there any reason we can't request extradition?
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Just read a fascinating piece about Nixon's impeachment.
Nixon was as slam-dunk guilty of offences warranting impeachment as anything you could imagine. He was for ed by the Supreme Court to release transcripts of tape recordings which proved he had orchestrated the cover up of the Watergate break in. There were no grey areas.
And yet.
Only 10 of the 17 Republican congressmen on the Judiciary Committe which drafted the articles of impeachment voted against him. And a week before he resigned, only 31% of Republican voters thought he should go.
It's an interesting parallel with today. Another Republican crook in the White House and again he's being covered by his Congressmen, and his voters refuse to hear anything bad said against him.
They are not going to be treated well by history...
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Glyn,
The info is from Craig Murray:
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2019/10/jonathan-sacoolas-is-not-and-has-never-been-a-diplomat/
The references to the list are linked in the article.
In answer to your question, we could ask for her return...but I do not expect Trump to comply.
International Law is for others, not the USA.
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Her husband is not included on the Diplomatic List, which means that she cannot lawfully claim immunity.
Not that this will move Trump, as he has no interest in supporting the UK legal process.
That's not right, her husband was on the diplomatic list, which automatically gives her the right to be on the list.
Your argument is whether he was a diplomat or not, which is a different argument.
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A new low - if that were possible....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-50000646
"Even by President Trump's own remarkable standards, his off-the-cuff remark that the US alliance with the Kurds is of little importance because they were not at Normandy - they did not fight with the US and its allies in World War Two - is extraordinary."
Even by Trumps low standards that is quite remarkable........... the man is a calamity.
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The Kurds may not have been at Normandy, but they did fight during WWII
https://mobile.twitter.com/ric_cole/status/1182613417640824834
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Like Al Capone, trump could be jailed over tax and:
''Former US ambassador to Ukraine arrives for testimony in impeachment inquiry
Marie Yovanovitch, the former US ambassador to Ukraine, has arrived on Capitol Hill to testify in the impeachment inquiry against Trump''
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Her husband is not included on the Diplomatic List, which means that she cannot lawfully claim immunity.
Not that this will move Trump, as he has no interest in supporting the UK legal process.
That's not right, her husband was on the diplomatic list, which automatically gives her the right to be on the list.
Your argument is whether he was a diplomat or not, which is a different argument.
His name does not appear on the Diplomatic List on the UK Government website and it would be suprising if it did. The Diplomatic List gives the names of the staff attached to Embassies and Consulates in the UK whereas this bloke worked at a facility in Northamptonshire. Not a lot of dilpoming required there.
As to what he was doing in Northamptonshire? Craig Murray surmises this is the real reason why his wife won't be extradited. So we don't get to find out.
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It seems her husband may have been working at RAF Croughton, which wiki says is a USAF Communications centre. There is likely high security classified information there, and most people might well have a high security clearance and diplomatic immunity
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Dutch,
There is a bit more background on the US site The Daily Beast;
https://www.thedailybeast.com/anne-sacoolas-american-diplomat-wife-fled-england-after-killing-19-year-old-harry-dunn-with-her-car
It seems the UK and the USA have agreed to extend immunity on a mutual basis.
That is not in accordance with the Vienna Convention.
The claim is now that "RAF Croughton" is an annex of the US Embassy.
It is said Sacoolas was driving a vehicle with diplomatic plates.
The US will not want this examined in court, so she has gone awol.
I expect the UK to bluster and do nothing.
The Dunn family may have to travel to the US and try to bring an action in the US Courts.
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Thanks Albie - sounds like just the sort of place I was thinking about.
Edit: In my last 10 years in the Netherlands I reached a high enough position within an International Organisation to have diplomatic plates on my car. I was told in no uncertain terms that this gave no immunity whatsoever from any traffic incidents, speeding or even parking tickets. In fact the only benefit was to be able to park in a diplomatic area at Schiphol airport.
Just shows how unusual the arrangement in this case is.
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Giuliani the best friend trump (and the world) ever had ..............................
Trump-Ukraine: John Bolton 'sounded alarm about Giuliani's actions'
Looks like Giuliani has left a trail of crumbs behind him the width of the Grand Canyon, and we are getting an idea why Bolton became persona non grata.
''Hill said Bolton instructed her to tell the National Security Council’s attorney that Giuliani was acting in concert with White House chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney, in a rogue operation with legal implications''
“I am not part of whatever drug deal Rudy and Mulvaney are cooking up,” Bolton instructed Hill to tell the NSC lawyer, according to her testimony''
''She said that Bolton had told her on an earlier occasion: “Giuliani’s a hand grenade who’s going to blow everybody up.”
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/oct/14/fiona-hill-testimony-trump-impeachment-inquiry
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Trump made some sensible points initially, he has gotten worse and worse as his time has progressed. I cannot see how anyone would vote for him, it's an open goal for the Dems.
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What were the sensible points? I think they passed me by.
He's not changed personality here. He's ALWAYS been a criminal and a moral vacuum. The only difference now is that it's spinning out of control.
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''A third Giuliani associate is arrested in New York City
A Florida man wanted in a campaign finance case involving associates of Rudy Giuliani is in federal custody.
federal authorities say they took David Correia into custody Wednesday at Kennedy Airport in New York City''
AND:
''Federal authorities reportedly investigating Giuliani on counterintelligence concerns
Federal authorities investigating ties between Rudy Giuliani and allegedly corrupt Ukrainian figures are reportedly exploring whether those wealthy foreigners tried to exploit their connection to the president’s personal lawyer to gain political influence''
If the associates of Giuliani get their nuts squeezed and rat him out, plus the pressure from being investigated himself and he himself starts to spill his guts I don't see how trump can escape this. They only have to prove conspiracy on any of the charges.
Plus there's more:
ProPublica got their hands on documents that show Donald Trump’s company gave a lender and New York City tax authorities two different set of numbers for two of the company’s Manhattan buildings – 40 Wall Street and the Trump International Hotel and Tower.
The documents show questionable differences in some expense, profit and occupancy figures. For example, the company told lenders that 40 Wall Street was 58.9% leased in 2012 but then rose to 95% a few years later. It told tax officials the building was 81% leased in 2013.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2019/oct/16/trump-news-today-live-elizabeth-warren-bernie-sanders-impeachment-latest?page=with:block-5da750a68f08b13ca7c7bd41#block-5da750a68f08b13ca7c7bd41
I think the game show is almost over.
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Like I say, every day you think he can't get more disgusting...
Then he invites the parents of Harry Dunn to the White House.
And he's got the woman who killed their son waiting in a f**king side room so that he can introduce them. With the press pack in another room, waiting to be called in to get the photos
Just....an empathy f**king vacuum.
I wonder just how badly his dad treated him.
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Like I say, every day you think he can't get more disgusting...
Then he invites the parents of Harry Dunn to the White House.
And he's got the woman who killed their son waiting in a f**king side room so that he can introduce them. With the press pack in another room, waiting to be called in to get the photos
Just....an empathy f**king vacuum.
I wonder just how badly his dad treated him.
Apparently, it was at Boris's suggestion.
They really are two cheeks of the same arse.
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It's 5 to midnight on trumps impeachment clock.
''Donald Trump instructed US diplomats to go through his personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, to make the Ukrainian president’s access to the White House dependent on launching investigations into Trump’s political opponents, the US ambassador to the EU has testified.
In his opening statement to Congress on Thursday, Gordon Sondland, a wealthy hotelier and Trump donor, sought to distance himself from the president, saying he had been “disappointed” Trump had chosen to conduct an important strategic relationship through his lawyer''
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/oct/17/gordon-sondland-testimony-trump-giuliani-ukraine
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“John Kelly never said that,” Trump said, according to CNN. “He never anything like that.
“If he would have said that I would have thrown him out of the office. He just wants to come back into the action like everybody else.”
''The White House press secretary, Stephanie Grisham, confirmed Trump’s response: “I worked with John Kelly, and he was totally unequipped to handle the genius of our great President.”''
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvfzNl1sLcs
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/oct/26/impeachment-state-official-philip-reeker-donald-trump
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He's in BIG trouble after tonight's news folks. His Ambassador to the EU and long-term supporter has just welched on him. Said that he now remembers passing on the message to Ukraine that they wouldn't get military support unless they opened an investigation on Biden as Trump wanted.
That's a key player and a previously huge Trump supporter now saying Trump committed a slam-dunk impeachable act.
The avalanche is starting...
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As long as he has his powerful supporters to blindly defend him, I wouldn't be so optimistic. When I say blind, I mean that almost literally as Lindsey Graham is refusing to even read the transcripts. Are there enough genuine, sane voices in the Republican ranks to get it through? I'm not sure.
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When it goes, it really will be an avalanche.
The morally repugnant ones like Graham are positioning themselves for crawling out of the aftermath and being able to say "I didn't start the avalanche that brought Trump down."
But the avalanche is coming now...
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Trump and the Repugnants have shot themselves in the balls by complaining about closed-door hearings
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The stable genius is proven in court to be a liar and fined $2m, and you know I was just about to say 'let's give the guy a break, forgive and forget' :)
''Donald Trump fined $2m for misusing charity for political ends
New York judge also signed off on agreement to close the Trump Foundation and distribute $1.7m remaining funds to not-for-profits''
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/07/donald-trump-charity-foundation-misuse-lawsuit
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Public hearings on impeachment re Ukraine are starting next week and now Trump says he doesn’t want them to be public! It should be very interesting. There is such overwhelming evidence of extortion, although they keep calling it quid pro quo. Not sure why. I would think extortion is easier for ppl to understand.
I’m hoping as public opinion starts to go against him and consequently members of Congress see that, that they will band together to denounce him. Apparently individually many of them are afraid of him attacking them on Twitter or putting up someone to primary them, so many of them do nothing. Nice.
In our recent local elections this year, I was unable to vote for any Republicans just as a carryover from how I feel about them on the national level, which is just total utter disgust.
I wonder if we’ll ever come back from this on the world stage as well as nationally.
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Sandy, I think the existence of a "quid pro quo" is the legal requirement for this to be considered an impeachable offence.
It is, of course, a slam dunk case. If the Republicans go tribal on this and support Trump, they'll be doing so as a frank, public admission that they out Party above Country. It'll show how far they've slipped since the Nixon impeachment.
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And yet the crowd still applaud https://twitter.com/theJeremyVine/status/1193552771297005568?s=19
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Sandy, I think the existence of a "quid pro quo" is the legal requirement for this to be considered an impeachable offence.
It is, of course, a slam dunk case. If the Republicans go tribal on this and support Trump, they'll be doing so as a frank, public admission that they out Party above Country. It'll show how far they've slipped since the Nixon impeachment.
Yes, thanks Billy I think you’re right. Although in the beginning when Trump released the original transcript of his conversation with Zelinski, he said, “I have a favor though”, and this was said to be asking a foreign govt for help looking into a political rival and a quid pro quo wasn’t necessary. So this would/could be the first article of impeachment. Then after the career diplomats testified saying they actually heard a qpq, this I believe, becomes the second article of impeachment.
At any rate it’s fascinating, but unfortunately there is a lot at stake for our democracy. Unless more ppl as well as members of the Senate get on board with actually removing him from office, I’m afraid he will be more reckless and lawless particularly related to our foreign policy and specifically Putin and trying to exonerate Russia from our 2016 election interference.
I also hope for your sake that Boris is not elected because the similarities between him and Trump surely will help to upend the EU, which is what Putin is working towards.
God, Putin with his long term goals coming to fruition. If only more people would look at history and see it repeating itself.
I think the difference with Nixon was the Republican Party is not the same type of party it is today.
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So, Trump had a charity, the Trump Foundation, which raised money for, among other things, armed forces veterans who had fallen in hard times.
He's now admitted, in court documents, that he stole money from that charity and used it to pay his own election expenses in 2016.
https://mobile.twitter.com/ChrisAlbertoLaw/status/1194075883809714176
Come on.
Line up.
Those of you who have piled in to support him, time after time..
Come on. Come and support this f**king obscenity of a man.
We're waiting.
You didn't appear to give a f**k when he separated the babies of immigrants from their parents and put them in concentration camps.
Maybe you can find it in you to search your souls now he's cheating army veterans?
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Quite a paradox, without question there are two 'leaders' in the world that most wouldn't trust to mind their own grandmothers and yet there are plenty willing to overlook rafts and rafts of factual instances of them having sustained personality defects that has led to serious assaults on women, racist attitudes, conspiricies to assault a person, lies and more all documented.
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Abuse of process?
''He lost at every stage and three civil court judges sitting in Edinburgh ruled in February that he was liable to pay the Scottish government’s legal costs. After months of stalemate between the two sides, the dispute was due to be settled by an independent auditor.''
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/nov/12/trump-firm-settles-legal-bill-over-scottish-windfarm-dispute
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Quite a paradox, without question there are two 'leaders' in the world that most wouldn't trust to mind their own grandmothers and yet there are plenty willing to overlook rafts and rafts of factual instances of them having sustained personality defects that has led to serious assaults on women, racist attitudes, conspiricies to assault a person, lies and more all documented.
who has assaulted a woman?
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both of them bp, do keep up
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I watched Fahrenheit 11/9 about Mr Trump. It was very interesting.
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both of them bp, do keep up
have they been found guilty in court, I’ve not seen that?
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both of them bp, do keep up
have they been found guilty in court, I’ve not seen that?
This is the bit about reputation bp, if you have a record as an honest upstanding citizen when it comes to a 'he said she said' thingy who are most people going to believe a person that lies at every opportunity, has trouble answering a straight question or the other person?
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Fascinating interview on R4 today with the editor of the Financial Times (that well known socialist propaganda rag).
He said he interviewed Trump in person last year and it was like interviewing Tony Soprano. Trump's approach was one of physical intimidation. He said Trump's physical bearing was "one of studied thuggery".
That confirms what you'd expect of the man (sic). His entire career has been based on intimidation of people who he thinks he can control. I can understand that in a two-bit businessman who's not very good at business but bullies his way to success (I used to work for one with the same approach before I found my morals and resigned). But the Leader of the Free World? No, no, NO! Utterly unacceptable. And a leader who tries to physically intimidate a key global media editor into doing what he wants? That has terrifying implications for democracy.
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trump is not a wall flower when it comes to suing people to get retribution or damages, if this isn't true then why hasn't he sued CNN?
''Donald Trump was a nightmare landlord in the 1980s
There's an episode in Donald Trump's past that shows just how far this billionaire businessman will go to get his way.
It began in 1981. Trump bought a 14-story building on prime real estate facing New York City's Central Park.
His plan was to tear down the building and replace it with luxury condos. But first he needed a small band of rent-stabilized tenants out of there.
To succeed, Trump played rough, according to lawsuits filed by the tenants. Renters said he cut heat and hot water, and he imposed tough building rules. Trump even proposed sheltering homeless people in the building''
https://money.cnn.com/2016/03/28/news/trump-apartment-tenants/
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Murdoch never fails his supporters, you too could be a Murdoch zombie just regularly read the sun and the times and before you can say phone Hacking you'll be paying to support trump.
''Fox News covers impeachment hearing by defending Trump and gaslighting viewers
As first public hearing begins, president’s favorite network seeks to exonerate him with onscreen banners and Muppet ads''
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/13/fox-news-impeachment-hearing-trump
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Yet another member of Trump's inner circle convicted.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-us-canada-50438196
So that's
Stone
Cohen
Flynn
Papadopoulos
Manafort
Gates.
All convicted of lying to Congress or the FBI, or obstructing justice on the issue of the FBI's investigations of Trump.
Just ask yourself. Why on earth would they do this if there wasn't something enormous to hide?
Ask yourself which other President has ever required so many close aides to sacrifice themselves to protect him?
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Isn't this the trade body we'll be working with if Johnson gets his way with a Brexit crash out.
Global trade umpire: the next casualty of Trump's tariff war.
The World Trade Organization’s (WTO) Appellate Body may not make headlines like the U.S.-China tariff war, but trade experts say its likely demise next month is a further move away from multilateral rules designed to promote global free trade and towards a ‘law of the jungle’ where might is right.
For two years the Trump administration has been blocking appointments to the top body that rules on trade disputes, which means it will soon have too few members to function at all.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-wto-trade/global-trade-umpire-the-next-casualty-of-trumps-tariff-war-idUSKBN1XS1T0
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Oh sweet Jesus.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-50495289
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This is the tipping point. How the hell do any Republican Senators with an ounce of decency and support for the Constitution now not support impeachment?
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And this is why he got away with it for so long, what a weasel Hale is.
Hale, the undersecretary of state for political affairs, is the third-highest-ranking official at the State Department.
Hale may be able to share more information on why ambassador Marie Yovanovitch was dismissed. Yovanovitch, who testified publicly last week, said that she had asked Hale to defend her against attacks on her credibility.
According to Yovanovitch, Hale reassured her but never issued a statement of support.
In his closed-door testimony, Hale said ultimately decided not to issue a statement because he worried “it would only fuel negative reaction,” possibly from Trump.
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Like I say, every day you think he can't get more disgusting...
Then he invites the parents of Harry Dunn to the White House.
And he's got the woman who killed their son waiting in a f**king side room so that he can introduce them. With the press pack in another room, waiting to be called in to get the photos
Just....an empathy f**king vacuum.
I wonder just how badly his dad treated him.
Apparently, it was at Boris's suggestion.
They really are two cheeks of the same arse.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/harry-dunn-death-dominic-raab-foreign-secretary-legal-costs-diplomatic-immunity-anne-sacoolas-a9210931.html
Tories are suing the grieving Dunn family.
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The Dunn family need to pile on the pressure while the election's on as it's probably their only chance of the gov't backing down.
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This is the tipping point. How the hell do any Republican Senators with an ounce of decency and support for the Constitution now not support impeachment?
About that "ounce of decency" thing...
https://mobile.twitter.com/SaraCarterDC/status/1197362622213042176
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This is a very good summary by Julian Borger
"Fiona Hill rebukes conspiracy theory – and emerges as a heroine for our times
The Russia expert’s opening statement, delivered in her north-east England accent, from the stood out for its bluntness''
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/21/fiona-hill-testimony-trump-impeachment-hearing
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Got to laugh :thumbsup:
https://twitter.com/SaoSasha/status/1197320791706263552/video/1
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Got to laugh :thumbsup:
https://twitter.com/SaoSasha/status/1197320791706263552/video/1
That's brilliant.
Does anybody know how they do that?
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This is a very good summary by Julian Borger
"Fiona Hill rebukes conspiracy theory – and emerges as a heroine for our times
The Russia expert’s opening statement, delivered in her north-east England accent, from the stood out for its bluntness''
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/21/fiona-hill-testimony-trump-impeachment-hearing
For anyone who is interested, the impeachment hearings were riveting. Particularly good were the career diplomats and civil servants who were articulate, clear and unequivocal in their responses. Fiona Hill was brilliant. She is a national treasure and if you look at what is trending on Twitter you’ll see tons of comments about her. Men love her and women are so proud that women have played so strong a role in outing this corrupt president. Her comments are now headlines in newspapers all over the country and she has totally debunked the ‘Ukraine interfered in US elections, rather than Russia’, propaganda as well as the ‘domestic political errand’ which was being done at Trumps behest by Sondland and others in his administration to withhold already approved security aid to Ukraine in return for opening an investigation into the Bidens. (Funny that when the Dems changed the wording from Quid Pro Quo to bribe, no one was having it and many stated there was no bribe, but there was a quid pro quo. Craziness!) Anyway, she stated that this disinformation was started by Russian intelligence services and spread by oligarchs and ppl working for them to create a divide here as well as to eventually allow Trump to undo sanctions on them. Btw, her northeast English accent was lovely to hear and people were very responsive to it.
What still is the big question though is whether Republicans will remain willfully blind to this information to support Trump, or whether they will vote their consciences once the charges brought by the House of Representatives go to the US senate, who have the power to actually remove Trump from office. Gut wrenching times here and I imagine it’s being watched closely by Europe and all democracies.
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Sandy.
Biggest laugh of the week was seeing an American on Twitter say Fiona Hill was taking down Trump and with a Prince Andrew accent.
Her accent is actually closer to Sid the Sexist than the Royal Family.
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Sandy.
Biggest laugh of the week was seeing an American on Twitter say Fiona Hill was taking down Trump and with a Prince Andrew accent.
Her accent is actually closer to Sid the Sexist than the Royal Family.
Closer to Andrew than you'd think then. ;)
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Another good news story out of the US
"Republicans tried to rig the vote in Michigan – but ‘political novices’ just defeated them
After a Republican bragged about cramming ‘Dem garbage’ into certain districts, a grassroots campaign has given the power to redraw political maps to the people''
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/27/gerrymandering-michigan-citizens-voters-not-politicians
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Gerrymandering by Republican controlled states is an utter disgrace. North Carolina has been branded a failed democracy by an iternational watchdog.
In 2016, in the Congressional elections for the House of Representatives, the overall vote split in North Carolina was
Rep 2.4m
Dem 2.1m
The share of seats was
Rep 10
Dem 3
That's because the seat boundaries had been drawn to clump together Democrat areas into one seat. So when the Democrats won, they won with big majorities...lots of effectively wasted votes.
The average % vote in seat win by each party was
Dem 68%
Rep 59%
All from a constituency map deliberately drawn to have this outcome.
It was even worse in 2014. Just look at the shape of the constituencies on the map!
(https://www.wunc.org/sites/wunc/files/styles/medium/public/201610/house_elections_nc_2014.jpg)
It's all part of the same narrative. The Right breaking the taboos of lying and cheating.
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Trump and his regime getting friendly with terrorsts?
Donald Trump says Taliban talks back on in surprise Afghanistan visit
President makes Thanksgiving visit to airbase near Kabul
Confirms talks with extremists have resumed
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/28/donald-trump-taliban-talks-surprise-afghanistan-visit
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Pressure builds for Giuliani as associate enters talks over potential plea deal
‘’Pressure to cut deal comes after revelations that Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman are ‘likely’ to face more charges, attorney says
If Parnas strikes a deal it could put further legal pressure on Giuliani, who is facing a growing number of legal woes including some relating to his international consulting business as part of an investigation of alleged crimes including money laundering, wire fraud, campaign finance violations, making false statements, obstruction of justice, and violations of the Foreign Agents Registration Act’’
I can hear the squealing from here, the dominoes are starting to rock and Giuliani will be next on the rack. My bet is trump will cut him loose and try to bury him but Giuliani being a lawyer will have it all documented.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/06/giuliani-associate-lev-parnas-talks-potential-plea-deal
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Supreme Court rejects Trump administration's request to restart federal executions
On Monday, the Justice Department asked the Supreme Court to allow the federal government to carry out four scheduled executions by reinstating the federal death penalty after a 16-year old.
The Supreme Court just rejected the request — which means there won’t be an execution on Monday.
More context from The AP:
Attorney General William Barr announced during the summer that federal executions would resume using a single drug, pentobarbital, to put inmates to death. U.S. District Judge Tanya Chutkan in Washington, D.C., temporarily halted the executions after some of the chosen inmates challenged the new execution procedures in court. Chutkan ruled that the procedure approved by Barr likely violates the Federal Death Penalty Act.
The federal appeals court in Washington had earlier denied the administration’s emergency plea to put Chutkan’s ruling on hold and allow the executions to proceed.
Federal executions are likely to remain on hold at least for several months, while the appeals court in Washington undertakes a full review of Chutkan’s ruling.
trump moving further right than ISIS? :)
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What is it about right wing politics?
As the House judiciary committee prepares by the end of this morning for the crucial vote on the articles of impeachment against Donald Trump, fury has erupted over the fact that a Republican member last night named the alleged whistleblower who triggered the congressional investigation by complaining about the president’s pressuring Ukraine to investigate his political rivals.
Texas Republican Louie Gohmert last night at the judiciary committee hearing to give initial statements on the articles of impeachment called out the names of several people he would like to see called as witnesses in the expected impeachment trial of Trump in the Senate early next year.
Among those names was that of a man in the US intelligence community, whose name has been floating around as the possible individual who blew the whistle on the president’s allegedly corrupt dealings with Ukraine for personal political gain. The Guardian is not, of course, repeating that name and has no confirmation of who the whistleblower is.
Virginia Democrat Don Beyer tweeted that: “House Republicans just committed an incredible and outrageous breach. The President threatened the whistleblower with violence, and whether the person just named is the whistleblower or not they were just put in real danger. This is unacceptable and there should be consequences.”
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2019/dec/12/donald-trump-news-today-impeachment-house-articles-vote-live-updates?page=with:block-5df237388f081dfdbe4012de#block-5df237388f081dfdbe4012de
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Meanwhile Greta Thunberg gets under the skin of the most powerful idiot in the world
Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump)
So ridiculous. Greta must work on her Anger Management problem, then go to a good old fashioned movie with a friend! Chill Greta, Chill! https://t.co/M8ZtS8okzE
December 12, 2019
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This is an interesting article apart from the trump angle.
''Donald Trump is attacking both Jews and the left with one clean blow''
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/12/donald-trump-is-attacking-both-jews-and-the-left
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Nice barnet
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jan/17/donald-trump-mike-bloomberg-past-new-york-rivalry
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Been survives impeachment,complete waste of money for them as was never going to happen
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I'm not sure why you say that Bpool.
It needed 4 Republican Senators to vote against him to have him removed from office.
6 Republican Senators are on record as saying that they agree that he did commit the offences he was charged with. That clearly shows that a vote against him was a distinct possibility.
For reasons best known to themselves, 5 of those 6 voted in his favour.
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Been survives impeachment,complete waste of money for them as was never going to happen
That's like saying we shouldn't investigate crime because of the cost, but it's on the record forever trump has been impeached.
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No it’s not they don’t vote to see if guilty or not
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What does a jury do Bpool?
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Actually, one thing a jury DOES do is it gets to see evidence from questioning of witnesses.
6 of those Republican Senators went on the record saying that they believed Trump had done wrong.
Then all 6 voted against calling any witnesses.
Then 5 of those 6 voted in Trump's favour.
I suspect there would be one or two calls for a mistrial verdict if a normal jury told the judge they believed the defendant was guilty, said they didn't need witnesses, then voted to acquit the defendant.
And of course THIS is what it was about. Showing the Republican party in its true colours. And the key outcome,which will be amplified and replayed throughout this year is the fact that for the first time in US history, a senator has voted against a President from his party in an impeachment trial. And not just any senator. The last Republican Presidential candidate. He stood up in the Senate today and said Trump was guilty and should be removed from office.
That's a game changer.
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I have done just service and it is a joke but he was never going to get impeached was he so was a waste of money?
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Bpool.
Watch this. Watch every minute of it.
This is the last Republican to stand for President. Do you reckon HE thinks it's a waste of time? Watch him nearly break down with emotion when he describes the responsibility that he and his colleagues are trusted with to uphold their Constitution.
You REALLY think that's a waste of money? You've got an odd handle on democracy if that's the case.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3Ds-rnsJo0_yI&ved=2ahUKEwjkt56xzrvnAhWzUBUIHRhfCkIQwqsBMAB6BAgEEAQ&usg=AOvVaw11dOqRnP1Ctcuvs0-xVYXt
By the way, if it's too long to watch, just look at 0:40-1:05 and then cut to 4:05.
Those clips WILL go down in history as the words of a man who puts his duty to his country and truth above party affiliation. You can how much that tears him apart. His colleagues should hang their heads in shame that they don't have his strength.
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The point is bst every person including you new that trump would not lose, if you were to sue someone and your solicitor said there is no chance you will win but it will cost you millions to do would you do it? My point about jury service was, you have republicans and democrats who were always going to vote for there own party, in jury service your only meant to go off facts, so yes morally yes try get trump impeached financially it was a joke, let him see rest of his time in office out then go to the public vote
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What about this bp, did you agree with jonson that it would be spaffing money against the wall?
''Police uncovering 'epidemic of child abuse' in 1970s and 80s PM told to say sorry for remark about ‘spaffing’ money up wall as 4,024 claims lead to guilty verdicts''
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/feb/05/police-uncovering-epidemic-of-child-abuse-in-1970s-and-80s
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Not at all Sydney
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good as I was getting a little concerned that you might be wandering over to the dark side
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Bpool.
Have you listened to that speech by Mitt Romney?
Do you get how serious the charges against Trump were?
Do you think he committed those offences?
Don't you think that Congress had a responsibility to History to follow through the impeachment process?
Why aren't you questioning WHY more Republican Senators didn't follow Romney's lead?
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That’s not the point thou bst, it was never going to happen and most media outlets seem to think all its done is made him stronger now, his approval rating in his party is at over 90 percent making him the second ever most popular president in that party according to a new poll, so no they were never going to turn on him were they? In this country if the cps no there is no chance of a conviction in a court of law then it does not go to court as would be pointless even if they thought they were guilty
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Bpool. This is not remotely the same as a criminal trial. It's pointless to judge it by those standards.
Congress has a DUTY to press impeachment charges if they think there is a case. That is regardless of the prospect of conviction.
You are saying that, because Republican Senators:
1) refused to engage with the process
2) refused to allow witnesses
3) voted in favour of Trump despite having publicly stated that they believed he was guilty,
that Congress should ignore it's obligation under the Constitution.
Once again. Did you listen to that speech by Romney?
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Yes I did and I think he probably if not certainly is guilty that does not change the fact that he was never going to lose, tell me what was gained from them doing it?
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I'll say it again.
Congress has a DUTY to take this action if there is evidence that the President has committed impeachable acts.
Mitt Romney said that explicitly and unambiguously in that speech.
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BP, if you want to hear it from an American here is my two cents.
it was important to uphold our constitution - which deemed what he did a crime. It was important to amass evidence (as it were) since one of the articles of impeachment was obs of justice - which he used to suppress emails, materials and witnesses. What person would refuse to allow information and witnesses in a trial that could exonerate them? Also, as you know he bribed an ally using previously approved congressional money to leverage Ukraine for his own political gain.
What is going to stop another president from asking for foreign help for their own political purposes. This opens up our country to security concerns because that president is now beholden to that foreign power.
So yes it was a lot of money as was the Mueller trial, but they were important to preserve democracy. If the Dems did not look into what this president did and ask for a trial, imho they would have been as guilty as Trump of debasing the constitution. Also I think the cost of the Mueller investigation was justified as it verified the true amount of Russian interference into our 2016 election, for one.
It’s important because Trump is impeached forever, and this is important so history is aware that he was accused of committing crimes against his own country. Most ppl knew he would be acquitted, but many republican senators have admitted privately they are scared of him and his ability to not only block their re-elections, but threaten their family and future. Not a good look for them and the US. That’s what makes it so important what republican Mitt Romney did. It gave us honest Americans hope for the future.
So yes I think it needed to be done regardless of cost. As far as I can tell most people, except those who blindly follow him and his lies, believe the cost was justified.
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Here's one Republican Senator explaining why she voted to acquit Trump, even though she believes he committed impeachable offences.
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/481782-collins-admits-comments-about-trump-learning-a-lesson-are-aspirational?amp=1&_recirculation=1
Senator Collins said, "The president [asked a foreign] federal government to investigate a political rival [my comment. That's an impeachable act. No debate whatsoever.] And he should not have done that. And I would hope that he would not do it again."
Then she was asked what made her hope he wouldn't do it again, given that that hope was the reason she gave for voting to acquit him. She'd said earlier in the week that she was sure Trump had learned a big lesson from this process and would commit offences like this in future, so she'd vote to acquit him.
Trump then spent most of his State of the Union address on Tuesday saying he'd done nothing wrong and he had nothing to apologise for.
Collins then voted to acquit him on Weds.
Then when asked what confidence she had that Trump would change, she said, "well I may have been wrong about that."
I wonder what people like that see when they look in the mirror. I wonder if they sense how history will treat them?
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Yes I did and I think he probably if not certainly is guilty that does not change the fact that he was never going to lose, tell me what was gained from them doing it?
Making sure the American public know what a crook their President is, as well as what a lot of their Senators think about justice, that's what.
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I wonder if there is an opportunity for a private prosecution?
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Here's one Republican Senator explaining why she voted to acquit Trump, even though she believes he committed impeachable offences.
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/481782-collins-admits-comments-about-trump-learning-a-lesson-are-aspirational?amp=1&_recirculation=1
Senator Collins said, "The president [asked a foreign] federal government to investigate a political rival [my comment. That's an impeachable act. No debate whatsoever.] And he should not have done that. And I would hope that he would not do it again."
Then she was asked what made her hope he wouldn't do it again, given that that hope was the reason she gave for voting to acquit him. She'd said earlier in the week that she was sure Trump had learned a big lesson from this process and would commit offences like this in future, so she'd vote to acquit him.
Trump then spent most of his State of the Union address on Tuesday saying he'd done nothing wrong and he had nothing to apologise for.
Collins then voted to acquit him on Weds.
Then when asked what confidence she had that Trump would change, she said, "well I may have been wrong about that."
I wonder what people like that see when they look in the mirror. I wonder if they sense how history will treat them?
Collins is one of several particularly gutless Trump supporters I call the hand-wringers. They'll wring their hands and make these meek public statements that seem to indicate they're really agonising over how to vote, but when the chips are down they vote to support him every single time. I have no idea why anyone on the left holds out any hope for these people. I was surprised Romney actually went through with it. Collins is a lost cause, though.
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The Russians have just announced the result of the next presidential election, congratulations Mr Trump
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Here's one Republican Senator explaining why she voted to acquit Trump, even though she believes he committed impeachable offences.
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/481782-collins-admits-comments-about-trump-learning-a-lesson-are-aspirational?amp=1&_recirculation=1
Senator Collins said, "The president [asked a foreign] federal government to investigate a political rival [my comment. That's an impeachable act. No debate whatsoever.] And he should not have done that. And I would hope that he would not do it again."
Then she was asked what made her hope he wouldn't do it again, given that that hope was the reason she gave for voting to acquit him. She'd said earlier in the week that she was sure Trump had learned a big lesson from this process and would commit offences like this in future, so she'd vote to acquit him.
Trump then spent most of his State of the Union address on Tuesday saying he'd done nothing wrong and he had nothing to apologise for.
Collins then voted to acquit him on Weds.
Then when asked what confidence she had that Trump would change, she said, "well I may have been wrong about that."
I wonder what people like that see when they look in the mirror. I wonder if they sense how history will treat them?
Collins is one of several particularly gutless Trump supporters I call the hand-wringers. They'll wring their hands and make these meek public statements that seem to indicate they're really agonising over how to vote, but when the chips are down they vote to support him every single time. I have no idea why anyone on the left holds out any hope for these people. I was surprised Romney actually went through with it. Collins is a lost cause, though.
Susan Collins eh?
This is precisely what Democracy needs in the 21st Century.
https://mobile.twitter.com/asmith83/status/1225901847745093632
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And...back into Trump's swamp of illegality we dive.
Julian Assange's lawyer has today claimed in court that he has a witness to a senior Republican approaching Assange with an offer from Trump to pardon him, but only if Assange publicly states that the Russians weren't the source of the Clinton emails that he released in 2016 (the ones that won Trump the election).
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51566470
Of course it would be illegal for Trump to request a beneficial act and then pardon someone under criminal investigation.
Apparently, the senior Republican is Dana Rohrabacher. That's the man known as "Putin's Favourite Congressman", so often has he pleaded Russia's case in Congress.
Oh aye. And Rohrabacher is also big buddies with someone else you might know, who visited Assange in the Ecuadorian embassy a couple of days before Wikileaks published the Clinton e-mails. You might know him.
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-g6XiJz2XWjo/WpGRM-KLmQI/AAAAAAAA70s/A0waT4FJSfoSu5PhNL5XahMaVb2ypOIXQCLcBGAs/s1600/CCad6.png)
It's a f**king cess pit of corrupt self-interest, undermining democracy. They'll be brought to justice. Eventually. And you lot who have supported Farage and Trump will see it. Eventually.