Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: DRFC_TID_93 on October 11, 2019, 08:08:29 pm
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Anyone watching? Reminds me of the England of old early on, can't defend set plays, no composure on the ball and pretty dull
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Gone backwards since the world cup by the looks of it. Can't believe Rice and Keane are starting again there are better players around.
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Can't understand how Kane kept his place. Southgate banged on for months about how you won't keep you spot if you're out of form, Abrahams got more goals this season and in a team higher in the league. So why not start him?
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It's like watching paint dry!
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Watched 10 minutes, got bored so turned it off.
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Now watching Gardeners World, sheesh!
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Keane is not an international player full stop
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Centre midfield is the main problem we just can't move the ball at all. Think the 3 at the back suits us better to get possession higher up the pitch at the moment we struggle to build anything.
Didn't expect Rice to make the team after the last set of internationals he was poor then
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Can't understand how Kane kept his place. Southgate banged on for months about how you won't keep you spot if you're out of form, Abrahams got more goals this season and in a team higher in the league. So why not start him?
You can't just pick purely based on form for every position, every game. You have to foster a team with a core of regulars and Kane is absolutely pivotal. Much like when we had Marquis, Kane has to start every game and rightly so. He isn't even in poor form, he's performed perfectly well for Spurs even though the team are struggling.
There are others he's giving chances that maybe don't really deserve to be starting in there, such as Michael Keane, but dropping Harry Kane would be daft.
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Can't understand how Kane kept his place. Southgate banged on for months about how you won't keep you spot if you're out of form, Abrahams got more goals this season and in a team higher in the league. So why not start him?
You can't just pick purely based on form for every position, every game. You have to foster a team with a core of regulars and Kane is absolutely pivotal. Much like when we had Marquis, Kane has to start every game and rightly so. He isn't even in poor form, he's performed perfectly well for Spurs even though the team are struggling.
There are others he's giving chances that maybe don't really deserve to be starting in there, such as Michael Keane, but dropping Harry Kane would be daft.
Whilst I agree that you need a core team, I disagree about not dropping Kane, he's looked bang average in this game (although a few have) and he has this season too. Most of those in, are in on merit, however, Keane, Rice and Kane, are three who I wouldn't agree with. Stones when fit is an obvious replacement with Timori coming through as well and Gomez at Liverpool. Winks for Rice is one option in midfield but I struggle to think of anyone else who can play that role. But for me Abraham should have been in on goalscoring form
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Now watching Gardeners World, sheesh!
Yeah Rachel de Thame,
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Now watching Gardeners World, sheesh!
Yeah Rachel de Thame,
Phwoar!
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As said previously Rice & Keane not good enough.
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On a night when England can't win, Andorra are winning 😂
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To put it in 3 words WE ARE SHIT
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Is John Stones injured?
Madison will make a difference when he plays. I think Grealish is better than Rice.
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Centre midfield is the main problem we just can't move the ball at all. Think the 3 at the back suits us better to get possession higher up the pitch at the moment we struggle to build anything.
Didn't expect Rice to make the team after the last set of internationals he was poor then
Exactly no world class players in the midfield. Unfortunately for the wealth off attacking options we have nobody to pull the strings in the middle of the park
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Some daft comments on here tonight.
Vicar - WE ARE SHIT?! Were we shit when we were battering Spain not long ago? France lose qualifiers. Germany lose qualifiers. Belgium lose qualifiers. We’ve just lost our first qualifier for a decade...do you think perhaps you might be overreacting a little bit?
93 - drop Kane? He’s our captain and talisman. You don’t drop him because he’s only scored 4 or 5 goals by October and a raw lad who was playing in the Championship last year has scored a few more than him.
Padge - in hindsight the team selection tonight was off (see below) but Rice and Grealish aren’t comparable players in the slightest.
Wrong team selection tonight - think Winks could have moved the ball quicker replacing either Rice or Henderson and don’t think I’d have started either of the full backs or Keane but come on, the sky isn’t caving in. We remain a work in progress and some way short of the elite - whether we’d won 4-0 tonight or lose as we did that doesn’t change.
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Some daft comments on here tonight.
Vicar - WE ARE SHIT?! Were we shit when we were battering Spain not long ago? France lose qualifiers. Germany lose qualifiers. Belgium lose qualifiers. We’ve just lost our first qualifier for a decade...do you think perhaps you might be overreacting a little bit?
93 - drop Kane? He’s our captain and talisman. You don’t drop him because he’s only scored 4 or 5 goals by October and a raw lad who was playing in the Championship last year has scored a few more than him.
Padge - in hindsight the team selection tonight was off (see below) but Rice and Grealish aren’t comparable players in the slightest.
Wrong team selection tonight - think Winks could have moved the ball quicker replacing either Rice or Henderson and don’t think I’d have started either of the full backs or Keane but come on, the sky isn’t caving in. We remain a work in progress and some way short of the elite - whether we’d won 4-0 tonight or lose as we did that doesn’t change.
I did mean tonight not the last 10 years, but some of that 10 years we were playing shit, and getting through on a wing and a prayer
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That was very average - headless, wasteful and undisciplined...... poor show
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Danny Rose looked very average tonight. Rightly singled out IMO by Roy Keane on ITV for his indisciplined play. I wouldn’t blame him for the winning goal though - the ball should never have been played in the air to him, as he was just about the smallest player on the pitch and had little chance of winning the header.
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Centre midfield is the main problem we just can't move the ball at all. Think the 3 at the back suits us better to get possession higher up the pitch at the moment we struggle to build anything.
Didn't expect Rice to make the team after the last set of internationals he was poor then
This.
Trouble is, you could have said it at any time in the past 50 years and it would be equally as applicable, other than maybe for a few weeks when Platt and Gascoigne were at their peak.
We have never ever produced central midfields with the ability to dominate possession and unpick defences against the very best.
Germany, France, Holland, Italy, Argentina, Brazil and more lately, Spain produce those midfields once a decade or so, over and over and over again.
We produce Frank Lampard and Steve Gerrard and Declan Rice and Ross Barkley and tell ourselves we are punching at the same level.
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Gareth does as well as can be reasonably expected in my opinion .
Which isn't to say he's the best thing since sliced bread but he gets the majority of the time the best out of the squad which is more than his predecessors got .
Look at that squad that went to the 2006 world cup for instance and never put a decent performance in all the tournament .
Really lacking some class in the midfield which is pretty much what you most definitely need to have any chance of success .
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Watching England makes me think 🤔 these guys make millions from the game ? ! But my old Doncaster Rovers would murder any of em ! Anyone else agree?
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Watching England makes me think 🤔 these guys make millions from the game ? ! But my old Doncaster Rovers would murder any of em ! Anyone else agree?
With the sentiment but not the practically , I watched you play Crystal Palace last season in the FA cup for your reference with all due respect .
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Watching England makes me think 🤔 these guys make millions from the game ? ! But my old Doncaster Rovers would murder any of em ! Anyone else agree?
We couldn't beat a poor Portsmouth team last week.
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This thread is laughable. This England side has been on an upward trajectory since GS took over. One poor performance and everyone is all over them. Are they the best team in the world? No, far from it, but they have done ok in recent times.
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Exactly
People saying drop Kane, he’s going to be the best striker we’ve ever had. You don’t drop players like that after a couple of poor games.
He’s scored something like 7 goals in his last 5 games and you want him dropped. 😂😂
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Centre midfield is the main problem we just can't move the ball at all. Think the 3 at the back suits us better to get possession higher up the pitch at the moment we struggle to build anything.
Didn't expect Rice to make the team after the last set of internationals he was poor then
This.
Trouble is, you could have said it at any time in the past 50 years and it would be equally as applicable, other than maybe for a few weeks when Platt and Gascoigne were at their peak.
We have never ever produced central midfields with the ability to dominate possession and unpick defences against the very best.
Germany, France, Holland, Italy, Argentina, Brazil and more lately, Spain produce those midfields once a decade or so, over and over and over again.
We produce Frank Lampard and Steve Gerrard and Declan Rice and Ross Barkley and tell ourselves we are punching at the same level.
Scholes would’ve walked into any of those national sides
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Centre midfield is the main problem we just can't move the ball at all. Think the 3 at the back suits us better to get possession higher up the pitch at the moment we struggle to build anything.
Didn't expect Rice to make the team after the last set of internationals he was poor then
Exactly no world class players in the midfield. Unfortunately for the wealth off attacking options we have nobody to pull the strings in the middle of the park
When was the last time England had a true, World Class Player, a la Ronaldo, Messi et al?
I honestly can't remember one for many, many a year. We got through to the World Cup semi final last year, which was a great achievement, but in many respects I think luck was on our side.
I hope they prove me wrong, but I don't think we've a cat in hells chance of winning the Euro's with this lot.
Take Johnny Foreigner out of The Premier League and it's a bang average league
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We need a player like Lallana in there, he needs to move away from an field and gegular footy. Pity Maddison was out
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It appears that everyone sees things differently.....bad,poor,lethargic,commanding, disciplined, great, .....
To be fair, we are just “ little old England- having a laugh” a bit of a distraction, a novelty to take ya mind away from more important issues like ..why do I have a crate of Magners, and no frickin ice?
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The FA put out videos of the squads training at Burton, and the players are treated like royalty. Everything is done for them, no stone unturned, perfect pitches, rigorous testing, warm down facilities etc.
What's wrong with that you might ask? They're just too comfortable, everything's too easy. There no evidence of any hunger, desire and will to win, when teams up their game we can't cope!
The U21s were coasting 2=0 with 5 mins to go and as soon as the other team made a big last effort they capitulated.
I agree with the comments above though, Rose, Rice and Keane should not be in our first choice XI.
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Centre midfield is the main problem we just can't move the ball at all. Think the 3 at the back suits us better to get possession higher up the pitch at the moment we struggle to build anything.
Didn't expect Rice to make the team after the last set of internationals he was poor then
This.
Trouble is, you could have said it at any time in the past 50 years and it would be equally as applicable, other than maybe for a few weeks when Platt and Gascoigne were at their peak.
We have never ever produced central midfields with the ability to dominate possession and unpick defences against the very best.
Germany, France, Holland, Italy, Argentina, Brazil and more lately, Spain produce those midfields once a decade or so, over and over and over again.
We produce Frank Lampard and Steve Gerrard and Declan Rice and Ross Barkley and tell ourselves we are punching at the same level.
Scholes would’ve walked into any of those national sides
So we've produce one world class midfielder in 30 years. Grand.
And read what I wrote. I didn't say "midfielders" I said "midfields".
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This thread is laughable. This England side has been on an upward trajectory since GS took over. One poor performance and everyone is all over them. Are they the best team in the world? No, far from it, but they have done ok in recent times.
It seems to be the way of popular thinking now. Look how it is on here almost every time Rovers lose - last weekend was a rare exception to that - it's doom and gloom, change everything, it isn't good enough etc. etc.
England are on the right track. Last night was an off-night, it happens. It also wasn't our strongest XI really even if Southgate is giving certain players a chance to impress. The back four wasn't close to what our best combination would be, and we do have issues in centre midfield to work out. But the Euros are 8 months away, there's plenty of time to work it out.
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"and we do have issues in centre midfield to work out."
Precisely my point. That sentence has applied throughout my life. We've never got close to working them out because we don't produce genuinely top class midfield players in anything remotely like the numbers that other countries do. That's the fundamental reason why we've never come close to winning anything in my lifetime. Because we have never, ever been able to control a game against a top class opposition.
It's no good saying there are issues to be worked out. The problem cannot be solved until we start producing generations of the quality of Zidane and Makalele and Viera or Iniestia and Xabi and Busquets or Rivaldo and Ronaldinho or Pirlo and Gattuso or Gullit and Rijkard or Platini, Girese and Tigana, or Rummenigge and Breitner.
We don't. We never have done. We produce midfields that never, ever reach the qualities of those. Last night shows what happens when a moderately competent side take the game to our side. Our midfield cannot control the game. Any of the ones above would breeze through that sort of challenge.
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I honestly think in the cold light of day that this defeat will be good for us. We’ve got results recently and been the worst team and people focus on the result. Yesterday we were poor, there were individuals who showed that (currently) they are not international footballers. Southgate has shown he has the courage to make changes previously and hopefully yesterday provided a wake up call. Let’s not forget we still only need 3 points to qualify so it’s not all doom and gloom.
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This thread is laughable. This England side has been on an upward trajectory since GS took over. One poor performance and everyone is all over them. Are they the best team in the world? No, far from it, but they have done ok in recent times.
look if they play bad they play bad, if they play good then they do buy you can't call it a wasted thread cos it does not say what you want it to say
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World class players.
Terry, Ferdinand, Ashely Cole, Gerrard, Scholars, Beckham, Rooney.
Currently closest is Kane and Sterling.
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In my view Southgate is proving to be the same old same old. Big promises about only playing form players. Two of the worst performing teams at the minute and yet Keane gets in. How’s that work Everton are shit. Kane may be captain but at the moment he’s not performing. Tammy Abraham’s should have started if Southgate was good to his words and so should. Tomori or mings
Picked on reputation doesn’t and never has washed it with me. If spurs are still crap by the time Bulgaria game comes around Kane should be benched or dropped. The same goes for others as well
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World class players.
Terry, Ferdinand, Ashely Cole, Gerrard, Scholars, Beckham, Rooney.
Currently closest is Kane and Sterling.
John Terry and Ashley Cole world class??!!
My God! That's one of the craziest things I've ever seen.
Gerrard was never world class. He was a good Premier League player who played for a team who never even won the league! Even Beckham himself admitted he was never world class. Scholes was a good player, maybe the best midfielder of his time, but I'm talking proper 'world class' like Ronaldo and Messi (as I said)
Sterling will never be world class as long as his bottom points downwards.
Obviously all in my opinion
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World class players.
Terry, Ferdinand, Ashely Cole, Gerrard, Scholars, Beckham, Rooney.
Currently closest is Kane and Sterling.
And that post sums up why we never get close to competing at the very top.
We don't produce crops of truly top class players but we convince ourselves that we do.
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There really is some ridiculous comments on this thread. England have been brilliant under Southgate, are a young squad and have some incredible young talents coming through. Like previously mentioned we’ve beaten teams like Spain since the World Cup and came third in the Nations League.
It’s obvious some Donny fans on here (and lower league fans in general) just clearly have an agenda against the England National team and will probably delighted when we lose so they can have a good moan.
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I’m not sure stating what your team wins or doesn’t win is a good way to gage a world class player.
Ronaldo or messi have never won a World Cup but are the best two players to ever play the game
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World class players.
Terry, Ferdinand, Ashely Cole, Gerrard, Scholars, Beckham, Rooney.
Currently closest is Kane and Sterling.
John Terry and Ashley Cole world class??!!
My God! That's one of the craziest things I've ever seen.
Gerrard was never world class. He was a good Premier League player who played for a team who never even won the league! Even Beckham himself admitted he was never world class. Scholes was a good player, maybe the best midfielder of his time, but I'm talking proper 'world class' like Ronaldo and Messi (as I said)
Sterling will never be world class as long as his bottom points downwards.
Obviously all in my opinion
Ashley Cole was the best left back in the world at his peak without question .
The team who left these shores in 2006 to play in the world cup was probably the most talented squad we've assembled since 1970 .
Ferdinand , Terry , Cole , Scholes , Gerrard , Lampard , Beckham , Joe Cole , Owen and Rooney .
Should have made the final as a minimum .
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World class players.
Terry, Ferdinand, Ashely Cole, Gerrard, Scholars, Beckham, Rooney.
Currently closest is Kane and Sterling.
And that post sums up why we never get close to competing at the very top.
We don't produce crops of truly top class players but we convince ourselves that we do.
Guess they all won the champions League as the weak link in their teams and carried by the rest.
Ashley Cole was the best left back in the world at his peak. Beckham came second to Zidane win world player of the year.
So unless you're Ronaldo or Messi you're not world class?
All the above would have got in any of the best European sides as well.
Wed have beaten Croatia if we had a decent manager in charge.
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Go on lads. Keep telling yourselves. You'll learn eventually.
Managers? That's a farcical argument. We have tried every type of manager.
Home grown and foreign.
Disciplinarian and players' mate.
Sophisticated and agricultural.
Young & fresh and old & battle-hardened.
And we've not ever made a final apart from on home soil, 53 years ago.
You'd have thought we'd have hit on one manager to find the magic recipe. The fact we haven't screams out that the ingredients are not good enough.
But you keep on telling yourselves that our players are as good as any.
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I’m not sure stating what your team wins or doesn’t win is a good way to gage a world class player.
Ronaldo or messi have never won a World Cup but are the best two players to ever play the game
I think you're struggling with cause and effect Dickos.
I never said our players weren't top class because they never won a major international event.
I said they never won a major international event because they weren't top class.
In some ways I feel for Southgate. He knows that England weren't 4th best at the World Cup last year. They had a ridiculously easy path to the semis. They had 3 games against genuinely high quality sides (Belgium X2 and Croatia) and were comfortably second best in those.
Yes, they did well in the nothing competition of the Nation's League, against Spain and Croatia sides in transition, then came up short in the finals.
And that got up the expectations of those who either haven't seen it all before, or haven't learned.
But Southgate knows that this side is where England sides usually are. Somewhere about 8th best in Europe. Probably somewhere around 10-16th best in the world. That's where we typical tend to find ourselves. Sometimes a bit higher, sometimes a bit lower. We'll never be regularly in the top 2 in Europe or 4 in the World, like Italy, Germany, France, Spain and Netherlands (and Belgium these days) are until we start producing players of the quality they do, at the frequency they do.
If you don't accept that fact, you're in for a lot of false hopes.
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World class players.
Terry, Ferdinand, Ashely Cole, Gerrard, Scholars, Beckham, Rooney.
Currently closest is Kane and Sterling.
John Terry and Ashley Cole world class??!!
My God! That's one of the craziest things I've ever seen.
Gerrard was never world class. He was a good Premier League player who played for a team who never even won the league! Even Beckham himself admitted he was never world class. Scholes was a good player, maybe the best midfielder of his time, but I'm talking proper 'world class' like Ronaldo and Messi (as I said)
Sterling will never be world class as long as his bottom points downwards.
Obviously all in my opinion
Ashley Cole was the best left back in the world at his peak without question .
The team who left these shores in 2006 to play in the world cup was probably the most talented squad we've assembled since 1970 .
Ferdinand , Terry , Cole , Scholes , Gerrard , Lampard , Beckham , Joe Cole , Owen and Rooney .
Should have made the final as a minimum .
England's front 6 in the businesses of the 2006 WC was:
Hargreaves, Gerrard , Lampard , Beckham , Joe Cole and Rooney.
Scholes retired from international football 2 years earlier. Owen did his knee in the group matches.
Compare that front 6 to France's.
Viera, Makalele, Zidane, Ribery, Malouda, Henry.
You get my point? France were better in every single position.
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A lot of self appointed experts here on who was and wasn't a world class player.
Let's remind ourselves that before Messi and Ronaldo came along Alan Shearer was voted the third best player in the world in 1996, David Beckham 2nd best in the world in 1999 and 2001, Michael Owen best player in the world in 2001, and Lampard and Gerrard 2nd and 3rd in 2005.
Fair enough I don't always agree with these FIFA award things but to say we don't produce any world class players is cobblers.
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A lot of self appointed experts here on who was and wasn't a world class player.
Let's remind ourselves that before Messi and Ronaldo came along Alan Shearer was voted the third best player in the world in 1996, David Beckham 2nd best in the world in 1999 and 2001, Michael Owen best player in the world in 2001, and Lampard and Gerrard 2nd and 3rd in 2005.
Fair enough I don't always agree with these FIFA award things but to say we don't produce any world class players is cobblers.
Careful you'll get shot down on here for common sense
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World class players.
Terry, Ferdinand, Ashely Cole, Gerrard, Scholars, Beckham, Rooney.
Currently closest is Kane and Sterling.
John Terry and Ashley Cole world class??!!
My God! That's one of the craziest things I've ever seen.
Gerrard was never world class. He was a good Premier League player who played for a team who never even won the league! Even Beckham himself admitted he was never world class. Scholes was a good player, maybe the best midfielder of his time, but I'm talking proper 'world class' like Ronaldo and Messi (as I said)
Sterling will never be world class as long as his bottom points downwards.
Obviously all in my opinion
Ashley Cole was the best left back in the world at his peak without question .
The team who left these shores in 2006 to play in the world cup was probably the most talented squad we've assembled since 1970 .
Ferdinand , Terry , Cole , Scholes , Gerrard , Lampard , Beckham , Joe Cole , Owen and Rooney .
Should have made the final as a minimum .
And managed to draw with Sweden and beat Ecuador 1-0