Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: BillyStubbsTears on February 22, 2020, 05:17:51 pm
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It's painfully obvious. Several weeks now of too many players performing at 80% and no-one demanding that they run through brick walls.
Disappointing but that's the season done now. We're not going to get close to 25 points from the last 12 games.
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Agreed BST, we don't seem to be able to compete with teams who rough us up.
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Season over now. All about getting ready for a rebuild in the summer and having a proper go at getting promoted next season
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It's painfully obvious. Several weeks now of too many players performing at 80% and no-one demanding that they run through brick walls.
Disappointing but that's the season done now. We're not going to get close to 25 points from the last 12 games.
Absolutely true. The team that won the league 7 years ago was everything that this team isn't.
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I think leaving two of your best attacking players on the bench might play a part as well.
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Yeah that’s what we need ‘mesters’.
All the best teams ‘av’ ‘em.
Liverpool.....?
Man City......?
Leicester.......?
Chelsea........?
Barcelona.....?
Mesters my a**e. It’s a cohesive football team we’re short of.
It’ll come....next season.
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It’s league 1 football tho Colin .. the majority of successful sides at this level needs a bit of steel.. we haven’t
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I think leaving two of your best attacking players on the bench might play a part as well.
But only one has got 10 goals the others are in single figures. We have not replaced goals from last season. It’s not mesters it’s not nice footballers it’s goal scorers they cost money and we haven’t got enough. Only one just in double figures.
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I think leaving two of your best attacking players on the bench might play a part as well.
But only one has got 10 goals the others are in single figures. We have not replaced goals from last season. It’s not mesters it’s not nice footballers it’s goal scorers they cost money and we haven’t got enough. Only one just in double figures.
I know this might be hard to believe steve but we are the fourth highest scorers in the division.
Yes, I know that we got seven at Southend but Rotherham and Peterbro have had a few fives and sixes too.
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I know but we don’t have the clinical striker for tight games.
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Yeah that’s what we need ‘mesters’.
All the best teams ‘av’ ‘em.
Liverpool.....?
Man City......?
Leicester.......?
Chelsea........?
Barcelona.....?
Mesters my a**e. It’s a cohesive football team we’re short of.
It’ll come....next season.
I'm talking about MENTAL steel. The sort of characters who demand that players don't drop their standards.
Ours have sunk badly this month and there's no-one you can look at in the team and think "There's the leader."
You reckon those sides you listed don't have those characters? I think they are shot through with them.
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I think We are too slow and don't pass the ball quick enough.
It's like watching 11 slugs on valium.
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It's painfully obvious. Several weeks now of too many players performing at 80% and no-one demanding that they run through brick walls.
Disappointing but that's the season done now. We're not going to get close to 25 points from the last 12 games.
Couldn't agree more. There was no sign of any steel, desire or winning mentality today.
We're a soft touch at the moment. Anyone who really wants to beat us can.
The challenge for DM is to inculcate some winning mentality and attitude into a team where it felt today as if half the players were on a nice little secondment as part of some career development exercise. Not easy.
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It would help if Dazza picked the strongest team.
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Sads yes should have played but nobody else really in my opinion.
For next season we need players like BST with mental steel. We bring in young players who are still developing sometimes they click but are not consistent.
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I think We are too slow and don't pass the ball quick enough.
It's like watching 11 slugs on valium.
Bang on. When we are good, there's a dynamism about our passing. Last few weeks it's been badly missing.
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Sads yes should have played but nobody else really in my opinion.
For next season we need players like BST with mental steel. We bring in young players who are still developing sometimes they click but are not consistent.
That’s the thing with loan players, it’s not as if we are even developing them for our own future gain.
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I lost count of the number of times we played around at the back today and got caught out or almost got caught out. Great when it works but we need to alternate our game a bit.
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Agreed BST, we don't seem to be able to compete with teams who rough us up.
I agree but don’t think it applies today. Shrewsbury didn’t even rough us up. They were worse than us, no idea how we lost.
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Sads yes should have played but nobody else really in my opinion.
For next season we need players like BST with mental steel. We bring in young players who are still developing sometimes they click but are not consistent.
That’s the thing with loan players, it’s not as if we are even developing them for our own future gain.
But will the club spend the money to bring in developed players instead of young loanees. Kane and Wilks came good last season but not going to happen every year.
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Sads yes should have played but nobody else really in my opinion.
For next season we need players like BST with mental steel. We bring in young players who are still developing sometimes they click but are not consistent.
That’s the thing with loan players, it’s not as if we are even developing them for our own future gain.
But will the club spend the money to bring in developed players instead of young loanees. Kane and Wilks came good last season but not going to happen every year.
You mean like Whiteman, Sadlier, Taylor, Halliday, James and Anderson?
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I really think the big issue is the number of loanees.
If you have 5 loan players playing every week, every season , it's all but half the team. You don't get promoted, the loan players go back (maybe even if you do as well) and so it goes on.
We've a huge re-building job this summer. Should Sadlier go (very likely) we need to bring in a minimum of 6 players who are tried and tested at this level, permanent signings, not loanees.
That will probably cost more money than we're prepared to spend. Or maybe not, who knows.
Loans are not the way forward. IMO obvs
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Sads yes should have played but nobody else really in my opinion.
For next season we need players like BST with mental steel. We bring in young players who are still developing sometimes they click but are not consistent.
That’s the thing with loan players, it’s not as if we are even developing them for our own future gain.
But will the club spend the money to bring in developed players instead of young loanees. Kane and Wilks came good last season but not going to happen every year.
You mean like Whiteman, Sadlier, Taylor, Halliday, James and Anderson?
6 good players but 1,2or 3 could be gone in the summer. Along with all the loanees. So we will have to sign more developed players to be a better consistent side.
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Sads yes should have played but nobody else really in my opinion.
For next season we need players like BST with mental steel. We bring in young players who are still developing sometimes they click but are not consistent.
That’s the thing with loan players, it’s not as if we are even developing them for our own future gain.
But will the club spend the money to bring in developed players instead of young loanees. Kane and Wilks came good last season but not going to happen every year.
You mean like Whiteman, Sadlier, Taylor, Halliday, James and Anderson?
6 good players but 1,2or 3 could be gone in the summer. Along with all the loanees. So we will have to sign more developed players to be a better consistent side.
Like Cole and Fejiri?
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Isn’t Cole signed to the end of the season....with an option to extend.
The way he is performing he won’t get the extension.
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We're a frustrating side to watch atm, we were saying on the way home that we're a side full of talent but definitely missing something, a proper midfield mester for starters.
I agree with the OP in the main, I would say Halliday was the exception today though, particularly in the second half he was everywhere trying to drive the team forward.
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Isn’t Cole signed to the end of the season....with an option to extend.
The way he is performing he won’t get the extension.
What I don't get about Cole is why, when the ball is played out to the wing, he goes following it out there to within ten yards of whoever is on the ball. Get in front of goal man, who are we supposed to cross to ???
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I really think the big issue is the number of loanees.
If you have 5 loan players playing every week, every season , it's all but half the team. You don't get promoted, the loan players go back (maybe even if you do as well) and so it goes on.
We've a huge re-building job this summer. Should Sadlier go (very likely) we need to bring in a minimum of 6 players who are tried and tested at this level, permanent signings, not loanees.
That will probably cost more money than we're prepared to spend. Or maybe not, who knows.
Loans are not the way forward. IMO obvs
Agree I think the huge reliance on loans is definitely having an adverse effect on your ability to get out of league one and become a championship club .
It's perfectly fine to keep you stable at this level but that's obviously not the end game at Rovers .
If your better young players are loans then you aren't creating future revenue when they can be sold on at a good profit and give you an edge in League One .
Loans with an option to buy is perhaps worth looking at in the summer as an alternative strategy .
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Bang on tyke.
We will face a virtual rebuild again in summer as well as probably losing some of our own players, people like Sadlier who will be getting totally brassed off at being left out of the team when he clearly is one of our better ones.
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The decision not to play Sadlier in the recent games is just bizarre, and I think
DM needs to explain it.
He’d been in arguably his best form of the season and is our biggest goal threat by some distance. The tinkering with the team is crazy. DM shouldn’t be above criticism, this has been poor management.
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The decision not to play Sadlier in the recent games is just bizarre, and I think
DM needs to explain it.
He’d been in arguably his best form of the season and is our biggest goal threat by some distance. The tinkering with the team is crazy. DM shouldn’t be above criticism, this has been poor management.
I might be wrong, but my theory is it could be something to do with him not signing a contract yet
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The decision not to play Sadlier in the recent games is just bizarre, and I think
DM needs to explain it.
He’d been in arguably his best form of the season and is our biggest goal threat by some distance. The tinkering with the team is crazy. DM shouldn’t be above criticism, this has been poor management.
Agreed Jonathan.
I sincerely hope it’s nothing to do with Sadlier not having signed his contract offer.
We need to keep this player.
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Bang on tyke.
We will face a virtual rebuild again in summer as well as probably losing some of our own players, people like Sadlier who will be getting totally brassed off at being left out of the team when he clearly is one of our better ones.
If you'd had Wilks and Kane signed up last season but had to sell them on after narrowly missing out in the play offs then the budget last summer would have been extremely significant .
I take the point it's hypothetical but it underlines what I'm trying to say about revenue creation .
There's more money to be created in player sales than ST's and sponsorship .
My club have a financial edge over yourselves not because we get a few more through the gate but because we sell players on regularly for millions of pounds .
Which isn't to say it's not without flaws but at league one level it stacks up tremendously .
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I really think the big issue is the number of loanees.
If you have 5 loan players playing every week, every season , it's all but half the team. You don't get promoted, the loan players go back (maybe even if you do as well) and so it goes on.
We've a huge re-building job this summer. Should Sadlier go (very likely) we need to bring in a minimum of 6 players who are tried and tested at this level, permanent signings, not loanees.
That will probably cost more money than we're prepared to spend. Or maybe not, who knows.
Loans are not the way forward. IMO obvs
Agree I think the huge reliance on loans is definitely having an adverse effect on your ability to get out of league one and become a championship club .
It's perfectly fine to keep you stable at this level but that's obviously not the end game at Rovers .
If your better young players are loans then you aren't creating future revenue when they can be sold on at a good profit and give you an edge in League One .
Loans with an option to buy is perhaps worth looking at in the summer as an alternative strategy .
Yeah, perhaps we need to ditch our strategy and adopt Barnsley’s.
Much more sustainable.
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Is it the contractural delay at the root perhaps .
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The decision not to play Sadlier in the recent games is just bizarre, and I think
DM needs to explain it.
He’d been in arguably his best form of the season and is our biggest goal threat by some distance. The tinkering with the team is crazy. DM shouldn’t be above criticism, this has been poor management.
I might be wrong, but my theory is it could be something to do with him not signing a contract yet
It might be of course but it will hardly be encouraging him to do so.
If it is as you say though it is poor management to leave one of your best players out to spite him at the detriment of results.
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The decision not to play Sadlier in the recent games is just bizarre, and I think
DM needs to explain it.
He’d been in arguably his best form of the season and is our biggest goal threat by some distance. The tinkering with the team is crazy. DM shouldn’t be above criticism, this has been poor management.
I might be wrong, but my theory is it could be something to do with him not signing a contract yet
IF it is,and IF it was a case of DM trying to show Sad's,we can win games with or without him,it's not worked so far,and DM should pick,what he thinks is the best players to make a matchday team,to have the best chance of winning.Others are employed at the club to deal with players contracts.But it is an IF,I have no idea why he has dropped him recently.
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I think we do have leaders in this team, mainly Anderson and Whiteman, Copps too. They all shout and marshal team mates on the field.
Shrewsbury were awful today for niggly fouls, complaining and just generally being bas**rds. I don't like it personally and that side is going nowhere under Ricketts. Yes they won today's game (on another day we would have won, we were unlucky really) but there is little quality. It was also the most dead atmosphere I think I've ever experienced in this league.
Anyway, I don't know if what we are missing is "mesters". We do lack experience and with it that game savvy, not enough of our squad has that unfortunately.
I'm not going to lose sleep over today's result to be honest, but the top six is looking very unlikely now.
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I really think the big issue is the number of loanees.
If you have 5 loan players playing every week, every season , it's all but half the team. You don't get promoted, the loan players go back (maybe even if you do as well) and so it goes on.
We've a huge re-building job this summer. Should Sadlier go (very likely) we need to bring in a minimum of 6 players who are tried and tested at this level, permanent signings, not loanees.
That will probably cost more money than we're prepared to spend. Or maybe not, who knows.
Loans are not the way forward. IMO obvs
Agree I think the huge reliance on loans is definitely having an adverse effect on your ability to get out of league one and become a championship club .
It's perfectly fine to keep you stable at this level but that's obviously not the end game at Rovers .
If your better young players are loans then you aren't creating future revenue when they can be sold on at a good profit and give you an edge in League One .
Loans with an option to buy is perhaps worth looking at in the summer as an alternative strategy .
Yeah, perhaps we need to ditch our strategy and adopt Barnsley’s.
Much more sustainable.
As I said it's not without flaws and doesn't work in the championship although we have a little more hope than we had a fortnight ago .
We will lose players in the summer should we be relegated there's no doubt about that , we may even lose them should we survive .
There's no way Woodrow is leaving Oakwell for less than £10m in the summer and he's just one of four who will bring in very good revenue .
He cost us £1.1m in August 2018 .
We had £1.1m to spend as a League One club because we sold Bradshaw to Millwall for a similar amount .
Bradshaw cost us £500k in 2016 .
This is the point of the model , we've come down to League One in the past without a penny to scratch our asses with and relied on the owners generosity to punch the weight .
I understand the Rovers top brass are doing similar but it's not sustainable in my opinion .
When our owner was owed £12m and at the bottom of league one in 2015 things clearly had to change .
The model doesn't deliver utopia by any means but I'm struggling to find a better alternative with the way football is today that gives us championship football even as difficult as it is and remain financially solvent .
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Barnsley donut the right way as Peterborough do buy players that are quality and sell them on, eventually you will become a steady championship club, I think rovers board have done brilliant for us I just wish they would take a little gamble now and again
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Barnsley donut the right way as Peterborough do buy players that are quality and sell them on, eventually you will become a steady championship club, I think rovers board have done brilliant for us I just wish they would take a little gamble now and again
We haven't got everything right by any means and neither have Posh who despite decent revenue brought in still remain a league one club and probably will be next season too .
It's taken far too much time for my club to realise that young players especially at this level need experience around them .
Finally in January we get a 29 year old in with a huge wealth of experience in at centre back and after a couple of bedding in games has become a leader in the back four and now we don't look so vulnerable .
It's a shame we didn't do it last summer when almost everyone could see how vulnerable we were with so many young recruits .
The two lads up front for us are simply immense , Chaplin has 12 goals and Woodrow 13 for a combined fee of £2.3m .
You can't buy 25 championship goals for that kind of money in this day and age you just simply can't .
We will possibly still go down but I'm far more encouraged that lessons in our model have been learnt and we will be smarter going forward .
This is how we have to look at things and it's the same at Rovers , it's an ongoing process .
Far too much instant solutions narratives around fans today .
We are what we are , small clubs in south yorkshire trying to compete or get to one of Europe's top leagues full of big clubs and mega bucks .
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I think you will go down tyke but you will be very strong next year,being favourites to go up and knowing you will be challenging will get you the better players
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I think you will go down tyke but you will be very strong next year,being favourites to go up and knowing you will be challenging will get you the better players
When Woodrow goes in the summer I want Tyler Walker from Forest as his replacement ..... all day long .
Right age for us and with what Woodrow should bring in affordable .
If we can keep Connor Chaplin at the club we will be good to go next season offensively .
No guarantees mind .
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I think you will go down tyke but you will be very strong next year,being favourites to go up and knowing you will be challenging will get you the better players
If Barnsley do go down, and after yesterday's result they've given themselves a chance, they'll do what Rotherham have done this season.
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Big fear for me is at the end of the season. All the loanees go back and the pre season is spent trying to get more loans and we are back where we started
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Big fear for me is at the end of the season. All the loanees go back and the pre season is spent trying to get more loans and we are back where we started
And not just the loanees. I can’t see why Sadlier would stay when the manager has dropped him for games that we needed to win, and it’ll become harder to persuade Whiteman and Anderson to resist interest that’s likely to come in.
Despite what was considered a busy transfer window, I think we’re barely at double figures for the number of players contracted beyond the current campaign. It’s a growing task year on year.
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There are so many factors but energy and commitment is huge. Look at the Blades, every player gives his all every minute of every game. Wilder demands it. Saying that, we’re missing James at left back
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I wonder if Sadlier has been benched because he or his agent have told Rovers that he's definitely leaving in the summer? Even if that is the case though I don't agree with the decision to leave him out, at least not until the play-offs are mathematically impossible.
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I think the Sadlier situation has been discussed extensively and I don’t think that’s the reason. Sadlier wants to play here and I think an improved contract offer would likely have seen this tied up some time ago. But we all know the club negotiates very slowly on these matters. DM has publicly stated that the contract negotiations wouldn’t affect his selection and I take that at face value. The decision to leave him out is presumably tactical, I don’t see the logic behind it myself as not only is he our top scorer but he was also in some of his best form of the season. But it’s not just Sadlier, others are also being rotated to accommodate different players and we’ve altered the shape from the one that had got us into contention.
I certainly don’t think it’s simply a lack of ‘mesters’. I think DM is still learning as a manager and he’s making mistakes with the structure and selection of the team. If we’d stuck more closely to the shape that got us to where we are, and the players that have been big contributors in that, then I don’t think we’d have got zero points from these two games irrespective of any ‘mesters’ we may or may not have. We’ve been playing without a recognised left back, altering the dynamics of the midfield and opting not to play our most threatening wide players. It’s suddenly over complicated things and here we are.
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In my opinion we are missing someone with a bit of ‘bite’ in the team. We seem to be getting bullied far to easily. When we come up against teams who want to play football then I always fancy us. When we are up against a team who throw their weight around a bit, then we get picked off far too easily. On various threads this season I’ve said that, after a striker, we really need a ball winning midfielder who can look to protect the defence a bit. For me, that’s where we’re lacking quality this season.
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I had no intention of implying it is "simply" a lack of Mesters.
But it's a painfully obvious fact that we are lacking the necessary mental steel.
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I had no intention of implying it is "simply" a lack of Mesters.
Fair play, I hadn’t intended it to come across like you’d implied it was only that.
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Alan Little or Rob Jones, Mark Albrighton? Not the most skillful we have had on the books but when we needed a "step up to the plate" moment they are right up there with the best? Agreed?
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Anderson, Wright, Halliday, Whiteman and Sheaf are all prepared to get stuck in. We are just not good enough.
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It's not a question of "getting stuck in". It's about the mental resolve to demand the performances that the players are eminently capable of.
We are easily good enough to compete with the best in this division. We've demonstrated that times many this season. Our record against the top 6 is W4 D2 L4. That's as good as or better than Sunderland's, Portsmouth's Fleetwood's and Wycombe's, and not far off Rotherham's (and they still have 4 of the top 6 to play away). But we fall from that standard way too easily and THAT is the reason we're not going to make the play-offs.
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I think of you contrast our type of game to that of Rotherham for example, you get some incling to the strengths and weakness.
For the most part we try to play 'pretty' football. Rotherham play a more percentage type football based on being strong, getting the ball into the box without any second invitation and being determined to get on the end of it. When things don't go well for them, they dig in, do the ugly stuff we'll.
We don't have that in our DNA. Sometimes brains beats brawn but over a season, particularly at this level, being less cerebral and being more physical wins.
Do I want us to change? Difficult question but what we need is a better mental approach when the champagne football isn't working. We need to learn how to be c*nts when the game needs it.
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People talk about mental steel, but at the same time concede that we are out of the running for a play-off place with 36 points to play for and Rovers being (potentially) only 4 points of a play-off's spot.....
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People talk about mental steel, but at the same time concede that we are out of the running for a play-off place with 36 points to play for and Rovers being (potentially) only 4 points of a play-off's spot.....
It ain’t over yet of course mathematically. But we need 8 wins and 2 draws minimum imo from 12 games of which 8 of those 12 are away from home.
Now even i think that’s a tall order. So we keep going of course but it will take a monumental effort now to achieve the play offs.
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Unlike last year we can’t rely on one team falling away there are to many. I believe, like I’ve said before, we will need 27 pts minimum to make 6th place. Last season in March we only got 9 pts from 21pts we will need 15pts from 18 pts at least.
This time last season we had 54 pts therefore losing the last two games have put us behind that total.
Therefore we must win more games in March.
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People talk about mental steel, but at the same time concede that we are out of the running for a play-off place with 36 points to play for and Rovers being (potentially) only 4 points of a play-off's spot.....
The fans aren’t the ones on the pitch though MM.
I fell sure that the players will still think they can do it.
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The decision not to play Sadlier in the recent games is just bizarre, and I think
DM needs to explain it.
He’d been in arguably his best form of the season and is our biggest goal threat by some distance. The tinkering with the team is crazy. DM shouldn’t be above criticism, this has been poor management.
How's it crazy? He's being pragmatic and picking the team based on the strengths and weaknesses of the opposition. Should he just pick the 11 technically best players over the team he thinks will exploit their weaknesses?
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Barnsley's strategy is a smart way to go, Brentford too. It's all about reinvesting. Brentford are now established in the Championship and pushing for the next league up without getting into millions of debt but by buying young assets, developing and selling them on. They also use analytics to find the hidden gems and players that'd star in how they like to play.
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Genuine question, do Brentford and Barnsley have many loan players.
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People talk about mental steel, but at the same time concede that we are out of the running for a play-off place with 36 points to play for and Rovers being (potentially) only 4 points of a play-off's spot.....
It ain’t over yet of course mathematically. But we need 8 wins and 2 draws minimum imo from 12 games of which 8 of those 12 are away from home.
Now even i think that’s a tall order. So we keep going of course but it will take a monumental effort now to achieve the play offs.
Course it will be hard; however, we reached the play-off's last year with 73 points and played two games more to boot... Definitely not time to give up just yet - granted we need to go on a run to be in the mix, but it is far from impossible. A win against Wycombe could be the start.
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A game and a half ago, we were sitting 6th in the live table, if things can change that much in such a short space of time, they can change back in the same time frame...
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The decision not to play Sadlier in the recent games is just bizarre, and I think
DM needs to explain it.
He’d been in arguably his best form of the season and is our biggest goal threat by some distance. The tinkering with the team is crazy. DM shouldn’t be above criticism, this has been poor management.
How's it crazy? He's being pragmatic and picking the team based on the strengths and weaknesses of the opposition. Should he just pick the 11 technically best players over the team he thinks will exploit their weaknesses?
There's one huge weakness in your argument; the pragmatism isn't working. Leaving out your top scorer and best player from the previous 2 games, and then losing the next 2 games with poor performances tells you everything about how successful this tinkering is.
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The decision not to play Sadlier in the recent games is just bizarre, and I think
DM needs to explain it.
He’d been in arguably his best form of the season and is our biggest goal threat by some distance. The tinkering with the team is crazy. DM shouldn’t be above criticism, this has been poor management.
How's it crazy? He's being pragmatic and picking the team based on the strengths and weaknesses of the opposition. Should he just pick the 11 technically best players over the team he thinks will exploit their weaknesses?
I'd say whilst we should be taking into account the strengths/weaknesses of the opposition, we should also have in mind what suits OUR players best and gives them the best chance to focus on their own game. I'm not sure DM is getting the balance right at the moment if his recent team selections are based on nullifying/exploiting the opposition.
I agree that different players/tactics work for different games, but if players are playing well and are high in confidence, surely them being on the pitch gives us the best chance of getting results?
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Genuine question, do Brentford and Barnsley have many loan players.
Not sure about Brentford but we don't do loans in the same way Rovers do .
We have one loan player at the club at the moment a young 19 year old German right back with an option to sign in the summer .
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Genuine question, do Brentford and Barnsley have many loan players.
Not sure about Brentford but we don't do loans in the same way Rovers do .
We have one loan player at the club at the moment a young 19 year old German right back with an option to sign in the summer .
That’s the way I believe we should do with loans but we couldn’t do financially so they come in and they go home.
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Genuine question, do Brentford and Barnsley have many loan players.
Not sure about Brentford but we don't do loans in the same way Rovers do .
We have one loan player at the club at the moment a young 19 year old German right back with an option to sign in the summer .
That’s the way I believe we should do with loans but we couldn’t do financially so they come in and they go home.
.......and invariably they don’t come back next season so we start again with half a dozen new ones.
Not ideal is it.
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The decision not to play Sadlier in the recent games is just bizarre, and I think
DM needs to explain it.
He’d been in arguably his best form of the season and is our biggest goal threat by some distance. The tinkering with the team is crazy. DM shouldn’t be above criticism, this has been poor management.
I might be wrong, but my theory is it could be something to do with him not signing a contract yet
that's fine but, 1, he is our top scoere, 2, at the moment he is our player, and 3,surely with all this should be in before loans that are more likely to not be here next season, so we should play our own first, unless there is something written that they MUST play if fit. Just my opinion
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Genuine question, do Brentford and Barnsley have many loan players.
Not sure about Brentford but we don't do loans in the same way Rovers do .
We have one loan player at the club at the moment a young 19 year old German right back with an option to sign in the summer .
That’s the way I believe we should do with loans but we couldn’t do financially so they come in and they go home.
The average age of the squad this season was 22 years old , it's probably gone up a little with the arrival of Sollbauer who is 29 and Ritzmaier who is 27 last month .
This was the starting point in 2015 for my club , only sign young players under the age of 24 so they could be developed and sold on at a decent profit .
For three years up until last month we've not signed one player over 24 years of age .
In my opinion you can get be very successful in League One with a young team but at championship level you need at least three in the team who are experienced because the demands are so much higher , something we've failed to acknowledge up until last month and the last time we were in the championship .
The club are on the record that they will not develop players for other clubs , absolutely not .
It's one thing for Rovers to follow a similar approach but the recruitment has to be very good , especially when you begin for the model to grow .
Which isn't to say it can't be achieved but as the model grows then the one's who don't make it don't hurt you so much .
We've had failures , Ryan Hedges , George Moncur Lloyd Isgrove , Matty Pearson , Elliot Lee but because of the early gems with Alfie Mawson , Marc Roberts , Connor Hourihane , Sam Winnall and James Bree we were well in profit .
Alfie Mawson - Free Transfer - Sold for £6.5m
Marc Roberts - £25k - Sold for £3.5m
Connor Hourihane - £250k - Sold for £3m
James Bree - Academy - Sold for £3.5m
The money those brought in cleared our debts to the former owner and allowed the club to bring in ...
Ethan Pinnock - £650k - Sold for £3m
Liam Lindsay - £350k - Sold for £2m
Kieffer Moore - £850k - Sold for £4m
Brad Potts - £500k - Sold for£1.9m
Cauley Woodrow £1.1m Sold For Nothing less than £10m this summer .
The club last summer brought in 4 players for over a million quid each in ..
Luke Thomas
Malik Wilks
Patrick Schmidt
Connor Chaplin
So from a starting point of £12m owed to the owner the club through this model have been able to repay it's debt , become self sustainable and then arrive at a position where they can bring in players at league one and championship level for over a million quid and still remain self sustainable .
The elephant in the room of course is that sustaining championship football hasn't arrived yet .
So to say the model is totally successful would be wide of the mark because that's where the bar is set at my club .
Whether it will deliver that I don't know in all honesty but the drop in to League One isn't the end of the world because the budget is highly competitive and should deliver success .
Which is right where Rovers want to be but as I stated earlier the recruitment at the start has to deliver or the thing never grows any legs .
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There's one thing you're forgetting in all of this Tyke. Despite being a much smaller town, Barnsley are a much bigger club than Donny. Bigger stadium, bigger attendances, bigger budget, richer owners.
As a club, we can't compete with the likes of Barnsley, and I doubt that we ever will.
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There's one thing you're forgetting in all of this Tyke. Despite being a much smaller town, Barnsley are a much bigger club than Donny. Bigger stadium, bigger attendances, bigger budget, richer owners.
As a club, we can't compete with the likes of Barnsley, and I doubt that we ever will.
Well Steve the owners don't and haven't spent a penny of their own money in the 26 months they've owned us and I do mean not one penny .
The attendances are higher but that's not the reason we have a bigger budget these days because to be honest fan income is fairly negligible these days .
The whole idea of the model is to try and compete with clubs who enjoy a bigger budget by creating decent revenue without having owners ploughing millions in to the club .
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Genuine question, do Brentford and Barnsley have many loan players.
Not sure about Brentford but we don't do loans in the same way Rovers do .
We have one loan player at the club at the moment a young 19 year old German right back with an option to sign in the summer .
That’s the way I believe we should do with loans but we couldn’t do financially so they come in and they go home.
The average age of the squad this season was 22 years old , it's probably gone up a little with the arrival of Sollbauer who is 29 and Ritzmaier who is 27 last month .
This was the starting point in 2015 for my club , only sign young players under the age of 24 so they could be developed and sold on at a decent profit .
For three years up until last month we've not signed one player over 24 years of age .
In my opinion you can get be very successful in League One with a young team but at championship level you need at least three in the team who are experienced because the demands are so much higher , something we've failed to acknowledge up until last month and the last time we were in the championship .
The club are on the record that they will not develop players for other clubs , absolutely not .
It's one thing for Rovers to follow a similar approach but the recruitment has to be very good , especially when you begin for the model to grow .
Which isn't to say it can't be achieved but as the model grows then the one's who don't make it don't hurt you so much .
We've had failures , Ryan Hedges , George Moncur Lloyd Isgrove , Matty Pearson , Elliot Lee but because of the early gems with Alfie Mawson , Marc Roberts , Connor Hourihane , Sam Winnall and James Bree we were well in profit .
Alfie Mawson - Free Transfer - Sold for £6.5m
Marc Roberts - £25k - Sold for £3.5m
Connor Hourihane - £250k - Sold for £3m
James Bree - Academy - Sold for £3.5m
The money those brought in cleared our debts to the former owner and allowed the club to bring in ...
Ethan Pinnock - £650k - Sold for £3m
Liam Lindsay - £350k - Sold for £2m
Kieffer Moore - £850k - Sold for £4m
Brad Potts - £500k - Sold for£1.9m
Cauley Woodrow £1.1m Sold For Nothing less than £10m this summer .
The club last summer brought in 4 players for over a million quid each in ..
Luke Thomas
Malik Wilks
Patrick Schmidt
Connor Chaplin
So from a starting point of £12m owed to the owner the club through this model have been able to repay it's debt , become self sustainable and then arrive at a position where they can bring in players at league one and championship level for over a million quid and still remain self sustainable .
The elephant in the room of course is that sustaining championship football hasn't arrived yet .
So to say the model is totally successful would be wide of the mark because that's where the bar is set at my club .
Whether it will deliver that I don't know in all honesty but the drop in to League One isn't the end of the world because the budget is highly competitive and should deliver success .
Which is right where Rovers want to be but as I stated earlier the recruitment at the start has to deliver or the thing never grows any legs .
Looking at those purchases and sales Tyke it is quite remarkable what Barnsley have achieved in that area.
Someone in your recruitment dept is doing a fantastic job.
The model is one we at Rovers should be looking to follow. Easier said than done of course.
Recruitment is key. Getting it right 80% of the time is rare. Barnsley seem to have achieved it in recent years.
If you had signed those experienced players in August then you may not have been in a relegation battle this season as your recent form is outstanding now that you have those players.
I do think whatever league you are in any successful team needs 2/3 older heads in it.
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There's one thing you're forgetting in all of this Tyke. Despite being a much smaller town, Barnsley are a much bigger club than Donny. Bigger stadium, bigger attendances, bigger budget, richer owners.
As a club, we can't compete with the likes of Barnsley, and I doubt that we ever will.
What he's saying isn't about size of the club though. It's about the recruitment. Any size club can adopt a similar model and use it to help themselves grow.
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Scunthorpes head of recruitment & ex Rover Lee Turnbull hasn't been too shabby there either with the likes of Billy Sharp, Gary Hooper, Martin Paterson etc. Still lives in Donny.
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With in our budgetary requirements could we buy 4/5 players with a fee and wages to replace the loans?
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How about this lot, mesters in name at least.
Ken Hardwick
Harold Bratt Ian Gore Warren Hackett John Breckin
Billy Law Paul Birch Wayne Bullimore Alfie Beestin
James Shinner Alan Warboys
Subs: David Carver, Tommy Spurr, Jason Shackell, Josh Payne
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There's one thing you're forgetting in all of this Tyke. Despite being a much smaller town, Barnsley are a much bigger club than Donny. Bigger stadium, bigger attendances, bigger budget, richer owners.
As a club, we can't compete with the likes of Barnsley, and I doubt that we ever will.
What he's saying isn't about size of the club though. It's about the recruitment. Any size club can adopt a similar model and use it to help themselves grow.
That's exactly right , it's nothing new though if you can remember Crewe Alexandra in the 90's producing players on a conveyor belt and reached the championship under Dario Gradi .
Different times but none the less for the size of club Crewe are it was a magnificent achievement .
They stuck around too for a few seasons too I seem to remember .
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Genuine question, do Brentford and Barnsley have many loan players.
Not sure about Brentford but we don't do loans in the same way Rovers do .
We have one loan player at the club at the moment a young 19 year old German right back with an option to sign in the summer .
That’s the way I believe we should do with loans but we couldn’t do financially so they come in and they go home.
The average age of the squad this season was 22 years old , it's probably gone up a little with the arrival of Sollbauer who is 29 and Ritzmaier who is 27 last month .
This was the starting point in 2015 for my club , only sign young players under the age of 24 so they could be developed and sold on at a decent profit .
For three years up until last month we've not signed one player over 24 years of age .
In my opinion you can get be very successful in League One with a young team but at championship level you need at least three in the team who are experienced because the demands are so much higher , something we've failed to acknowledge up until last month and the last time we were in the championship .
The club are on the record that they will not develop players for other clubs , absolutely not .
It's one thing for Rovers to follow a similar approach but the recruitment has to be very good , especially when you begin for the model to grow .
Which isn't to say it can't be achieved but as the model grows then the one's who don't make it don't hurt you so much .
We've had failures , Ryan Hedges , George Moncur Lloyd Isgrove , Matty Pearson , Elliot Lee but because of the early gems with Alfie Mawson , Marc Roberts , Connor Hourihane , Sam Winnall and James Bree we were well in profit .
Alfie Mawson - Free Transfer - Sold for £6.5m
Marc Roberts - £25k - Sold for £3.5m
Connor Hourihane - £250k - Sold for £3m
James Bree - Academy - Sold for £3.5m
The money those brought in cleared our debts to the former owner and allowed the club to bring in ...
Ethan Pinnock - £650k - Sold for £3m
Liam Lindsay - £350k - Sold for £2m
Kieffer Moore - £850k - Sold for £4m
Brad Potts - £500k - Sold for£1.9m
Cauley Woodrow £1.1m Sold For Nothing less than £10m this summer .
The club last summer brought in 4 players for over a million quid each in ..
Luke Thomas
Malik Wilks
Patrick Schmidt
Connor Chaplin
So from a starting point of £12m owed to the owner the club through this model have been able to repay it's debt , become self sustainable and then arrive at a position where they can bring in players at league one and championship level for over a million quid and still remain self sustainable .
The elephant in the room of course is that sustaining championship football hasn't arrived yet .
So to say the model is totally successful would be wide of the mark because that's where the bar is set at my club .
Whether it will deliver that I don't know in all honesty but the drop in to League One isn't the end of the world because the budget is highly competitive and should deliver success .
Which is right where Rovers want to be but as I stated earlier the recruitment at the start has to deliver or the thing never grows any legs .
Looking at those purchases and sales Tyke it is quite remarkable what Barnsley have achieved in that area.
Someone in your recruitment dept is doing a fantastic job.
The model is one we at Rovers should be looking to follow. Easier said than done of course.
Recruitment is key. Getting it right 80% of the time is rare. Barnsley seem to have achieved it in recent years.
If you had signed those experienced players in August then you may not have been in a relegation battle this season as your recent form is outstanding now that you have those players.
I do think whatever league you are in any successful team needs 2/3 older heads in it.
The success rate has slowed down of late Campsall , Diaby , Andersen , Wilks haven't set the championship on fire although they are one year in to four year contracts so there is time for them to improve .
Connor Chaplin for £1.2m from Coventry City is an absolutely phenomenal signing for that outlay at this level , 22 years old and 12 Championship goals in a struggling team and hopefully more to come .
The other lad is Clarke Oduor who came from Leeds United , still a teenager but this kid is real quality , potential PL player here if he carries on developing , the big clubs are already sniffing .
Alpo Halme too has done very well too for £800k from Leeds United .
The two lads up top Woodrow and Chaplin shouldn't leave Oakwell for less than a combined £15m in my opinion given their age and Championship pedigree .
It would be nice to keep them but when the players can earn 20 to £30k a week further up the chain then that's never going to happen .
All we can do is reinvest the fees we receive and crack on the best we can but with a decent budget to work with .
If the players leave who I expect to this summer it wouldn't surprise me to see us go over £2m for a player or two with plenty of cash remaining to sustain the club .
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The decision not to play Sadlier in the recent games is just bizarre, and I think
DM needs to explain it.
He’d been in arguably his best form of the season and is our biggest goal threat by some distance. The tinkering with the team is crazy. DM shouldn’t be above criticism, this has been poor management.
How's it crazy? He's being pragmatic and picking the team based on the strengths and weaknesses of the opposition. Should he just pick the 11 technically best players over the team he thinks will exploit their weaknesses?
Whatever way you look at it, sadlier was in the best form he’s ever been in at the club over 3/4 games and Moore has dropped him for two matches, we’ve lost them both.
The decision to drop him when he was playing so well was absolute madness.
Dowie watched the Bolton game and said he was as good a right sided player outside the prem yet Moore dropped him the next game..
Crazy and makes zero sense
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How about this lot, mesters in name at least.
Ken Hardwick
Harold Bratt Ian Gore Warren Hackett John Breckin
Billy Law Paul Birch Wayne Bullimore Alfie Beestin
James Shinner Alan Warboys
Subs: David Carver, Tommy Spurr, Jason Shackell, Josh Payne
Yes but could we sign any of them in the close season?
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We all pretty much know our strongest team but for some reason DM still not sure, it needs to be picked and stuck with, and if they can all stay fit we can still make play offs, All this swapping and changing for sake of it is ridiculous, top teams do it because they have a strong 25, We dont
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This is what the West Brom fans told us about him when he signed for us. It's hardly a surprise is it?
BobG
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Exactly right Bobg, mate of mine baggies season ticket holder said same thing, I criticised club for sacking him two points off play offs with plenty of games to go,, he said football was Dire, he was constantly changing a winning team, and insisted on playing out from back having bought players that couldn't do that,, All Rings A Bell
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The decision not to play Sadlier in the recent games is just bizarre, and I think
DM needs to explain it.
He’d been in arguably his best form of the season and is our biggest goal threat by some distance. The tinkering with the team is crazy. DM shouldn’t be above criticism, this has been poor management.
How's it crazy? He's being pragmatic and picking the team based on the strengths and weaknesses of the opposition. Should he just pick the 11 technically best players over the team he thinks will exploit their weaknesses?
Whatever way you look at it, sadlier was in the best form he’s ever been in at the club over 3/4 games and Moore has dropped him for two matches, we’ve lost them both.
The decision to drop him when he was playing so well was absolute madness.
Dowie watched the Bolton game and said he was as good a right sided player outside the prem yet Moore dropped him the next game..
Crazy and makes zero sense
Dowies exact comments as a summariser on Sky Sports for that game was "if you want to win the game just give the ball to Sadlier".
Being able to freshen your squad up is fine, dropping players who are showing signs of tiredness, lack of form is also understandable, but not players that are flying and playing consistently well over a number of games and above all don't lose the games when making those changes.
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Sometimes you need to change personnel or tactics depending on the opposition but not every game like DM is doing. Players can't get any momentum and consistency if the team is getting changed every game. It's like at minute hes picking names out of a hat for who starts in that front 4.
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Sometimes you need to change personnel or tactics depending on the opposition but not every game like DM is doing. Players can't get any momentum and consistency if the team is getting changed every game. It's like at minute hes picking names out of a hat for who starts in that front 4.
And think about what it must do to morale as well. If you're playing well and still in and out of the team, it must create a bit of resentment I would've thought.
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Imagine telling Ian Snodin or Dave Penney that they were being rotated?
I don't think that John Marquis would have taken kindly to it either.
Where does it end of the manager deems a player too important to the side to drop even if out of form. That surely leaves an in form player left out feeling seriously annoyed.
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Look at that Man City starting X1 last night, players ‘out of position’, no recognisable striker & yet.....