Viking Supporters Co-operative

Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: SydneyRover on March 30, 2020, 09:47:55 pm

Title: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on March 30, 2020, 09:47:55 pm
''Trump says Republicans would ‘never’ be elected again if it was easier to vote

President dismissed Democratic-led push for voter reforms amid coronavirus pandemic during Fox & Friends appearance

“The things they had in there were crazy. They had things, levels of voting that if you’d ever agreed to it, you’d never have a Republican elected in this country again,”

Trump said during an appearance on Fox & Friends. “They had things in there about election days and what you do and all sorts of clawbacks. They had things that were just totally crazy and had nothing to do with workers that lost their jobs and companies that we have to save.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/30/trump-republican-party-voting-reform-coronavirus''
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on March 31, 2020, 06:04:48 am
How do you get to be the President of the United States with so many personality defects?

This must be one of his best media conferences so far, it's early but I need a drink  :)

''Trump attacks journalists for asking 'snarky' questions on coronavirus testing in US''

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2020/mar/30/trump-attacks-journalists-coronavirus-briefing


Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Superspy on March 31, 2020, 09:04:18 am
The man really is insufferable in these kind of situations with journalists. I can't stand loaded questions as much as anybody else but it's perfectly valid to ask him what the message is when he's been giving out bullshit for weeks. It's just a shit state of affairs when his only response is to shoot down the person asking the question, and we've seen it time and time again throughout his term.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on April 03, 2020, 11:16:19 am
The world turns upsidedown ............. comrade Don

''He made the astonishing claim: “I will always protect your Social Security, your Medicare and your Medicaid” – despite having supported cuts''

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/02/trump-coronavirus-briefing-jared-kushner-witch-hunt

Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: phil old leake on April 03, 2020, 11:34:51 am
Yet the rednecks love him
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on April 05, 2020, 05:26:35 am
Since Chinese officials disclosed the outbreak of a mysterious pneumonialike illness to international health officials on New Year’s Eve, at least 430,000 people have arrived in the United States on direct flights from China, including nearly 40,000 in the two months after President Trump imposed restrictions on such travel, according to an analysis of data collected in both countries.

The bulk of the passengers, who were of multiple nationalities, arrived in January, at airports in Los Angeles, San Francisco, New York, Chicago, Seattle, Newark and Detroit. Thousands of them flew directly from Wuhan, the center of the coronavirus outbreak, as American public health officials were only beginning to assess the risks to the United States.

Guess who said this below?

 “I do think we were very early, but I also think that we were very smart, because we stopped China,”

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/04/us/coronavirus-china-travel-restrictions.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: drfchound on April 05, 2020, 07:59:16 am
I would love to have heard the conversation between Trump and his wife after he said he wouldn’t be wearing a mask, then she posted a reminder on Twitter for everyone to wear one.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on April 05, 2020, 08:27:15 am
She probabaly insists he wear a double one hound  :)
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on April 07, 2020, 12:47:52 pm
https://lawandcrime.com/covid-19-pandemic/major-producer-of-hydroxychloroquine-once-paid-michael-cohen-hefty-sum-for-access-to-trump/

Surely, surely not?

I know you should never assume we have seen the very bottom of Trump's pit of depravity, but surely he's not grifting on CV-19?

But why the hell would he be constantly pushing Hydroxychloroqunine when the medical experts are so cool on it?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on April 07, 2020, 10:21:37 pm
Un-f**king-believable.

https://mobile.twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/1247597794052972549
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on April 07, 2020, 10:27:40 pm
He appears to be untouchable
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on April 07, 2020, 11:06:57 pm
Seems that, as long as he's sticking it to the Libs, he can do what the f**k he wants.

I do wonder what depravity it would take to genuinely shock his supporters.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on April 07, 2020, 11:11:01 pm
But then, just look at his party. It lost any sense of decency years ago.

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/491515-georgia-senator-bought-stock-in-personal-protective-equipment-maker-on-day-of
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on April 08, 2020, 11:44:03 pm
And off he goes again, the scumbag.

He's presiding over by far the worst management of CV-19 of any developed country.

The USA's death toll is looking like being several times higher than any other developed country (and it's not because the USA has a bigger population - that doesn't come into it. That only matters if you reach saturation.)

He said just a few weeks ago that everything was looking fine and CV-19 would just vanish - a miracle would happen. His exact words.

The miracle hasn't happened. A catastrophe has.

So what does he do? He starts a fight with the head of the WHO (who just happens to be a black African - coincidence, I'm sure). He says that the WHO has got the CV-19 management badly wrong. Despite every other developed country making a much better job of controlling CV-19. He says that America is looking at de-funding WHO.

His disgusting, obscene lack of simple humanity just utterly defies belief. Harry S Truman had a sign on his desk that said "The Buck Stops Here."

This t**t has a motto that says, "It's never my responsibility. Find some other sucker to blame."
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on April 09, 2020, 02:59:53 am
thinking about the thread title I should have made it 'trump or democracy'
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on April 14, 2020, 12:09:52 am
Trump having an absolute meltdown (even by his standards) at his press briefing. f**k me, I thought Patel was awful but this clown has her beat bigly. https://twitter.com/Selena_Adera/status/1249830097936363531?s=20
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on April 14, 2020, 12:19:10 am
There needs to be more of that in all countries
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on April 14, 2020, 12:27:07 am
Assuming you're referring to the reporter's response. If so I agree, fair play to the reporter for taking him to task. It's pissing into the wind with him though, all he has to do is ignore the question and throw out insults and his base eats it up. It must be nearly impossible to deal with if you're a career politician or reporter who's used to debating the issues. On a depressing note, I'm not sure Biden is capable of doing so and I think we'll have 4 more years of this.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on April 14, 2020, 12:54:37 am
I thought the reporter was great, hopefully it will get shown in the US. With trump dominating the news it would appear that he controls it and with the support of murdoch he does mostly but there are plenty that don't support but struggle to be heard. It's the same in all countries there is a huge contingent of voters that don't really want to know anything until it smacks them in the face so they read the tits and togger.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on April 14, 2020, 09:50:02 am
The next time he tries bullying a reporter at one of these things, all the reporters should stick together, stand up and walk out and leave him in an empty room.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on April 14, 2020, 12:35:00 pm
Let's hope she asks trump about this next time

''US for-profit healthcare sector cuts thousands of jobs as pandemic rages
Health workers are facing layoffs, furloughs and cuts to salaries and schedules in response to declines in revenue''

Is there a problem with private health care ...... noooooooooooooo

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/14/healthcare-job-cuts-coronavirus-worker-layoffs

Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on April 15, 2020, 12:04:59 am
Trump's announced he's defunding the WHO, so he's not content with killing tens of thousands of Americans, he's making an effort to take the rest of us down too.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: tyke1962 on April 15, 2020, 12:42:21 am
Trump's announced he's defunding the WHO, so he's not content with killing tens of thousands of Americans, he's making an effort to take the rest of us down too.

Just watched it , basically blaming the WHO for the spread of the virus .

A pandemic killing thousands every day and a fecking mad man in the White House .

What times we are living in !!!! .

 :headbang:
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Filo on April 15, 2020, 09:22:55 am
All Nations look the the East at Russia, China and North Korea for the threat to World Peace and stability, they’re looking in the wrong direction, it’s the West and the USA that are threatening all that!
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on April 15, 2020, 09:57:53 am
Every time you think you've reached the bottom of his depravity, he surprises you.

CV-19 is going to kill millions in the developing world. This animal has just multiplied that by defunding the one global organisation that is intended to coordinate international response.

And all because its leader, a black African, had the temerity to mildly rebuke him.

What a f**king mess America has made of its concept of leading the free world.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Filo on April 15, 2020, 11:28:11 am
Trump's name to appear on benefit cheques
As part of the US administration's economic response to the coronavirus outbreak, tens of millions of Americans are set to receive cheques worth $1,200 (around £945).

But according to US media, President Donald Trump's name will be printed on every single one.

The Washington Post, which first reported the news on Tuesday, says it is the first time that a US president's name has appeared on a cheque sent out by the Internal Revenue Service (IRS).

The newspaper said the decision could mean delays of a few days before recipients receive the cheques, although a senior official speaking to CNN denied this.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Sprotyrover on April 15, 2020, 01:51:54 pm
Every time you think you've reached the bottom of his depravity, he surprises you.

CV-19 is going to kill millions in the developing world. This animal has just multiplied that by defunding the one global organisation that is intended to coordinate international response.

And all because its leader, a black African, had the temerity to mildly rebuke him.

What a f**king mess America has made of its concept of leading the free world.
You need to stand back and have a good look at yourself,you are just as bad as TRUMP you are far from impartial and in this thread you have on two occasions tried your hardest to turn the matter into a Race issue!
Just stick to the facts and less of the hysteria please?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: scawsby steve on April 15, 2020, 04:29:36 pm
Every time you think you've reached the bottom of his depravity, he surprises you.

CV-19 is going to kill millions in the developing world. This animal has just multiplied that by defunding the one global organisation that is intended to coordinate international response.

And all because its leader, a black African, had the temerity to mildly rebuke him.

What a f**king mess America has made of its concept of leading the free world.

Why have you mentioned that the leader is a black African?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on April 15, 2020, 06:05:10 pm
I mentioned it because:

a) It's a fact and
b) Trump is a racist. Has been all his life, since he and his Dad were barring black Americans from renting their apartments in the 1970s, up to the present day when he casts racial slurs out like confetti.

It's not even up for debate, although I know you will get yourself worked up about it. I suggest you look at his rap sheet first.

-Turning away black applicants for an apartment, then accepting white applicants the same day. Except they weren't real applicants. It was a sting from the metropolitan authorities, following claims that the Trump organisation was racially discriminating. He settled out of court.
-Saying Mexicans are criminals and rapists.
-Saying Black American Congresswomen, born in the USA should "go back to where they came from", "countries whose governments are a complete and total catastrophe".
-Lying that he saw Muslims celebrating in New York on 9/11.
-Obsessively claiming (wrongly) that Obama was Kenyan.
-Claiming that a judge who was presiding over a fraud case against him should be recused because he was of Mexican heritage - the case had nothing to do with Mexico. And the judge was an American.
-Saying that he wouldn't get fair treatment from a Muslim American judge.
-Tweeting a picture of Hillary Clinton in front of a pile of money with a Star of David on it.
-Calling Haiti and African nations "shithole countries".
-Asking an aide of Korean heritage where she was from, and when she answered "NYC", asking her again where are "your people" from.
-Being fined $200,000 after his casino removed black table attendants and replaced them with white staff because the high rollers didn't like blacks.
-Saying "It's probably true" when asked in 1997 about explosive claims in a book about comments he was reported to have made. The alleged comments included "Black guys counting my money! I hate it"
-Refusing to denounce the KKK when pressed to do after they came out in support of him in the 2016 election. (He did denounce them a few days later, claiming he had a faulty earpiece in the earlier interview.)

I'll stop there. You get the point. Although I have little doubt that you'll ignore all of the above.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: selby on April 15, 2020, 06:16:55 pm
  Where there is big bucks and organisations there is a fiddle' and like with FIFA when the Yanks get mad they will find it. I expect them to go after the big players now, and in the mean time all they have done is taken the advice, don't give your bank details over the phone to someone in Africa.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: scawsby steve on April 15, 2020, 07:05:07 pm
I mentioned it because:

a) It's a fact and
b) Trump is a racist. Has been all his life, since he and his Dad were barring black Americans from renting their apartments in the 1970s, up to the present day when he casts racial slurs out like confetti.

It's not even up for debate, although I know you will get yourself worked up about it. I suggest you look at his rap sheet first.

-Turning away black applicants for an apartment, then accepting white applicants the same day. Except they weren't real applicants. It was a sting from the metropolitan authorities, following claims that the Trump organisation was racially discriminating. He settled out of court.
-Saying Mexicans are criminals and rapists.
-Saying Black American Congresswomen, born in the USA should "go back to where they came from", "countries whose governments are a complete and total catastrophe".
-Lying that he saw Muslims celebrating in New York on 9/11.
-Obsessively claiming (wrongly) that Obama was Kenyan.
-Claiming that a judge who was presiding over a fraud case against him should be recused because he was of Mexican heritage - the case had nothing to do with Mexico. And the judge was an American.
-Saying that he wouldn't get fair treatment from a Muslim American judge.
-Tweeting a picture of Hillary Clinton in front of a pile of money with a Star of David on it.
-Calling Haiti and African nations "shithole countries".
-Asking an aide of Korean heritage where she was from, and when she answered "NYC", asking her again where are "your people" from.
-Being fined $200,000 after his casino removed black table attendants and replaced them with white staff because the high rollers didn't like blacks.
-Saying "It's probably true" when asked in 1997 about explosive claims in a book about comments he was reported to have made. The alleged comments included "Black guys counting my money! I hate it"
-Refusing to denounce the KKK when pressed to do after they came out in support of him in the 2016 election. (He did denounce them a few days later, claiming he had a faulty earpiece in the earlier interview.)

I'll stop there. You get the point. Although I have little doubt that you'll ignore all of the above.

Only black people can know what it feels like to be black and be racially abused. Ask Dennis Rodman and Kanye West if they regard Trump as a racist.

Millions of black people will vote for Trump in November. Would they do that if they thought he was racist?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on April 15, 2020, 07:19:49 pm

SS. In a very strong field of competition, that might be the daftest thing anyone has said in here.

There are dozens of reasons why a black person might support Trump. Maybe they don't watch the news. Maybe they think that reports of him being racist are fake news. Maybe they don't actually give a shit.


Look at that one example of what he said to the black Congresswomen. "Go back to where you came from." Specifically meaning foreign countries.

But they were born in America. He looked at them. Saw black people. And instinctively saw them as different.

Look at what he said about the judge of Mexican heritage. Paul Ryan who was the leader of the Republican party at the time called it "the very definition of racism."

Look at the sting on his apartment business.

But suit yourself. Turn a blind eye to it if you want. Claim it's all made up.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: scawsby steve on April 15, 2020, 08:15:55 pm

SS. In a very strong field of competition, that might be the daftest thing anyone has said in here.

There are dozens of reasons why a black person might support Trump. Maybe they don't watch the news. Maybe they think that reports of him being racist are fake news. Maybe they don't actually give a shit.


Look at that one example of what he said to the black Congresswomen. "Go back to where you came from." Specifically meaning foreign countries.

But they were born in America. He looked at them. Saw black people. And instinctively saw them as different.

Look at what he said about the judge of Mexican heritage. Paul Ryan who was the leader of the Republican party at the time called it "the very definition of racism."

Look at the sting on his apartment business.

But suit yourself. Turn a blind eye to it if you want. Claim it's all made up.

Daft? I don't think so. Let me tell why. You, and plenty of other people, can't distinguish between racism and political incorrectness. Have you ever met real, vicious racists? I have, and have almost got into fights with them. They will constantly refer to black people as n****rs and black b*stards, and will verbally and physically abuse them at every opportunity.

Those c*nts that stabbed Stephen Lawrence to death were racists. Are you seriously putting Trump in the same category as them?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on April 15, 2020, 08:28:13 pm
I'll calmly make my point again.

Trump has a lifelong record of belittling, judging and discriminating against people of other races, because of their race.

That is racism. Full stop. As explained to him by the head of the Republican party.

With that record, the fact that the head of the WHO who had publicly admonished Trump is a black African is absolutely germane to the fact that Trump then lashes out and defunds the WHO. Especially when you factor in the pathetic, snowflake narcissistic nature of the man, which makes him incapable of ever hearing criticism without lashing out.

The fact that he would defund the WHO at this of all moments is bestial. He is an amoral monster.

And he relies on people like you giving him a pass because he sticks it to the Libs.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: scawsby steve on April 15, 2020, 08:43:16 pm
I'll calmly make my point again.

Trump has a lifelong record of belittling, judging and discriminating against people of other races, because of their race.

That is racism. Full stop. As explained to him by the head of the Republican party.

With that record, the fact that the head of the WHO who had publicly admonished Trump is a black African is absolutely germane to the fact that Trump then lashes out and defunds the WHO. Especially when you factor in the pathetic, snowflake narcissistic nature of the man, which makes him incapable of ever hearing criticism without lashing out.

The fact that he would defund the WHO at this of all moments is bestial. He is an amoral monster.

And he relies on people like you giving him a pass because he sticks it to the Libs.

BST, you are a man of facts, evidence, and reason, and yet you are ASSUMING that the reason that Trump is de-funding the WHO is purely racial.

There is no way of proving that is the case.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Sprotyrover on April 15, 2020, 08:50:58 pm
Billy what you did and fail to recognise is that by going down the lines of racism you have managed to derail this thread, what I want to know is why Trump has pulled the funding, Trump was reading from a prepared script which will have been contrived by some of the best Legal minds in the US.why have they done this, Trump has clearly been well advised about the issue , just what is really going on?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: wilts rover on April 15, 2020, 09:03:10 pm
That's correct Steve. You cannot assume that just because someone has a long history of racist speech and actions that everything they do is motivated by racism.

Personally I dont think it is in this case. What I think he has done with the WHO is try and shift the blame for his incompetence.

Trump says the WHO did not act early or decisively enough on covid-19. On the day the WHO declared coronavirus a pandemic Trump said it this was overblown, the virus was under control and he was off to Florida for the weekend to play golf.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on April 15, 2020, 09:29:05 pm
Yes. Agreed. I can't know for certain that this was motivated by Trump's racism.

But you have a man (man-child actually, but let it pass) who can't take criticism from anyone without petulantly lashing out, so insecure is he. That same person has a lifetime history of racism. And a few days after being publicly criticised by a black man, he lashes out at them. As circumstantial evidence goes, it's not the worst case.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on April 15, 2020, 10:09:18 pm
By the way SS.

Your claim that only black people can truly know what racism is.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.axios.com/donald-trump-african-american-voters-poll-racist-59f7adcf-776e-4ef1-bfd6-ff3b04ded233.html
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on April 15, 2020, 10:11:48 pm
"Trump's not a racist, he just talks and acts like one." :silly:
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: scawsby steve on April 15, 2020, 10:33:31 pm
By the way SS.

Your claim that only black people can truly know what racism is.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.axios.com/donald-trump-african-american-voters-poll-racist-59f7adcf-776e-4ef1-bfd6-ff3b04ded233.html

Personally, I wouldn't believe anything the Washington Post says about Trump, but if it's right, then you've nothing to worry about. Sleepy Joe will romp home, and you'll win your bet with me.

Don't forget that bet. I said at the time that there'll only be one true winner from the US Election in November, and that'll be the Rovers foodbank.

Watch this space.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: tyke1962 on April 15, 2020, 10:34:27 pm
The only thing Donald Trump believes in is Donald Trump .

If playing the racist card gets him votes in the deep south then Trump will play that card .

If his putting America First gets the red knecks voting for him then so be it by withdrawing funding from WHO and NATO and b@llax to the consequences .

Trump simply plays to the voter and tells them what they want to hear which is a totally different thing to telling them what's needed to make the country successful .

If the american people put up with the kind of inequality you see over there , the healthcare system they have , the crime and murder rate then crack on because to be honest the US is pretty low on my list as a decent democratic country .

You couldn't pay me to live there .

Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: IDM on April 15, 2020, 10:38:03 pm
By the way SS.

Your claim that only black people can truly know what racism is.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.axios.com/donald-trump-african-american-voters-poll-racist-59f7adcf-776e-4ef1-bfd6-ff3b04ded233.html

Personally, I wouldn't believe anything the Washington Post says about Trump, but if it's right, then you've nothing to worry about. Sleepy Joe will romp home, and you'll win your bet with me.

Don't forget that bet. I said at the time that there'll only be one true winner from the US Election in November, and that'll be the Rovers foodbank.

Watch this space.

Why would you need to believe or disbelieve an American newspaper.?  Trump shows his true colours often enough with his own tweets and press briefings..
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on April 15, 2020, 10:39:21 pm
The only thing he's good at is media and self promotion which is why he's presidente'

 US food banks will need plenty of donations if he wins a second term.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: selby on April 15, 2020, 10:48:56 pm
  I have listened to three experts being interviewed on this subject today, and although all three criticised Trump for stopping the finance, all three agreed that the W.H.O. have been poor at handling the Corona virus situation and have made serious mistakes, especially how they have dealt with China.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Donnywolf on April 16, 2020, 09:19:43 am
The only thing Donald Trump believes in is Donald Trump .

If playing the racist card gets him votes in the deep south then Trump will play that card .

If his putting America First gets the red knecks voting for him then so be it by withdrawing funding from WHO and NATO and b@llax to the consequences .

Trump simply plays to the voter and tells them what they want to hear which is a totally different thing to telling them what's needed to make the country successful .

If the american people put up with the kind of inequality you see over there , the healthcare system they have , the crime and murder rate then crack on because to be honest the US is pretty low on my list as a decent democratic country .

You couldn't pay me to live there .



I agree almost totally Tyke

Added to that he appears to be (as I dont know him) a particularly loathsome person - and as you say interested in himself to the detriment of all others

His agenda is him - and it seems unreal to my (amateur) observations that he is now talking up the prospect of opening up the Country again at EVERY opportunity

Quite ironic as he was talking it down as fake news folks fake news and saying it would not affect them at all

Maybe like the Novel 1984 all his outpourings will be (probably have been) rewritten so as to prove him right all along

One thing he wont change is I personally think he is a loathsome individual
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: selby on April 16, 2020, 09:33:20 am
  And there you go, who what and why Trump is,  and the topic of why the W.H.O. have not done their job, why it made mistakes, and why and how it cow tailed to China who tried to cover up the seriousness of the problem, get's lost in a personality contest.
  If you are paying big bucks out to someone that is not doing the job, then stopping the hand outs, and investigating what they do with your money is the right thing to do.
   Interesting to see just who does contribute the most into the pot, the US and UK the fall guys again coughing up more than the countries held up as the shining lights of all that is good trailing behind.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: IDM on April 16, 2020, 09:37:10 am
No Selby, you investigate FIRST and then if and only if there is no other alternative, would you withdraw funding.

Use the threat of potential funding withdrawal as an incentive for the WHO to correct any failings maybe.

But to stop funding unilaterally without warning is childish and petulant.  “It’s my ball and I’m taking it home”.

You can see that, can’t you.??
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on April 16, 2020, 10:24:08 am
IDM

Doing that at this time, when the developing world is about to be ravaged by CV-19 is much, much worse than childish. It is psychopathic. He is deliberately condemning millions to die.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BigH on April 16, 2020, 12:05:35 pm
I'll calmly make my point again.

Trump has a lifelong record of belittling, judging and discriminating against people of other races, because of their race.

That is racism. Full stop. As explained to him by the head of the Republican party.

With that record, the fact that the head of the WHO who had publicly admonished Trump is a black African is absolutely germane to the fact that Trump then lashes out and defunds the WHO. Especially when you factor in the pathetic, snowflake narcissistic nature of the man, which makes him incapable of ever hearing criticism without lashing out.

The fact that he would defund the WHO at this of all moments is bestial. He is an amoral monster.

And he relies on people like you giving him a pass because he sticks it to the Libs.

To be fair, I don't think it's just a race thing with Trump. He's like that with women, political opponents, journalists, the underprivileged, in fact anyone who doesn't inhabit his own narcissistic, monied bubble.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: IDM on April 16, 2020, 12:14:42 pm
The WHO issue isn’t just about Coronavirus either.  It’s about the USA funding an international organisation which goes against Trump’s America First strategy..
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: ravenrover on April 16, 2020, 02:15:02 pm
And it runs in the family
In December 1950, Woody Guthrie signed a lease at the Beach Haven , or as Woody christened it Bitch Heaven, apartment complex owned and operated by Fred Trump in Gravesend, Brooklyn. There are several handwritten drafts of the lyrics with titles such as "Beach Haven Race Hate" and "Beach Haven Ain't My Home". In its lyrics, Guthrie expresses his dissatisfaction with Trump and the "color line" he had drawn in his Brooklyn neighborhood:[4][5]

Old Man Trump
Words by Woody Guthrie Adapted by Ryan Harvey, Music by Ryan Harvey
I suppose that Old Man Trump knows just how much racial hate
He stirred up in that bloodpot of human hearts
When he drawed that color line
Here at his Beach Haven family project

Beach Haven ain't my home!
No, I just can't pay this rent!
My money's down the drain,
And my soul is badly bent!
Beach Haven is Trump’s Tower
Where no black folks come to roam,
No, no, Old Man Trump!
Old Beach Haven ain't my home!

I'm calling out my welcome to you and your man both
Welcoming you here to Beach Haven
To love in any way you please and to have some kind of a decent place
To have your kids raised up in.
   
Beach Haven ain't my home!
No, I just can't pay this rent!
My money's down the drain,
And my soul is badly bent!
Beach Haven is Trump’s Tower
Where no black folks come to roam,
No, no, Old Man Trump!
Old Beach Haven ain't my home!
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: idler on April 16, 2020, 02:39:06 pm
I wonder how Trump junior would explain those lyrics away?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Filo on April 16, 2020, 02:44:25 pm
I wonder how Trump junior would explain those lyrics away?

Fake lyrics!
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: ravenrover on April 17, 2020, 12:53:47 pm
The interesting part of this is that in a recent programme about Woody there are clips of Old Man Trump with his lovely son about a yard behind him at the apartment block
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on April 18, 2020, 06:36:21 am
What a nasty piece of sh1t trump is not only killing people but inciting them to violence
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on April 18, 2020, 12:45:37 pm
There's a huge issue that has gone almost unreported this week.

Economically strong countries can cope with the economic hit due to CV-19. We borrow in our own currencies, and that means, if necessary, we can print money to pay our bills. It is far from ideal and it will lead to long term inflation, but you don't worry about breaking ribs to get access to the heart when the heart needs surgery.

That's not the case for the vast majority of underdeveloped countries. They borrow against other currencies, mostly the dollar. But the value of the dollar is going up because investors all over the world want security and there is nothing safer than the dollar.

Add to that the fact that countries all over the world are going into vicious recessions and there is a massive debt crisis lumbering over the horizon.

I know there are plenty on here who don't much give a shit if poor countries get the wrong end of the deal, but consider this. Collectively, those countries owe $2 trillion to Western banks. So a debt crisis for those countries means a banking crisis, just like 2008 all over again.

So there has been a move to increase the funds that the IMF has to loan to countries struggling to pay their debts. It's in everyone's interests. As it happens, Gordon Brown has been very active behind the scenes, pulling together over 100 ex-PMs and Presidents to lobby the current incumbents.

Everything was coming together. G20 countries had an outline agreement to boost the IMF coffers by $1 trillion.

Then Washington vetoed it just this week.

This could have the most collosal ramifications.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Filo on April 18, 2020, 12:48:18 pm
Can’t the rest of the world just cast America adrift, let them be the master of their own downfall and not the rest of the world downfall
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on April 18, 2020, 12:49:07 pm
If only.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on April 18, 2020, 12:54:16 pm
Can’t the rest of the world just cast America adrift, let them be the master of their own downfall and not the rest of the world downfall

Trump's doing a good job of that all on his own.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on April 18, 2020, 01:00:15 pm
It all fits with Steve Bannon's philosophy.

He reckons that every 80-100 years there is a major game changing event that re-shapes the world.

Late 1700s Industrial Revolution and American Independence.

Mid 1800s: American Civil War

Early-mid 1900s World Wars.

He actively wants a global massive breakdown. Because he says that it's possible to reconstruct the world afterwards. And of course, he wants the world reconstructed with far-Right leadership.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Filo on April 24, 2020, 07:50:43 am
Trump’s latest miracle cure for COVID19, inject yourself with disinfectant 😳😳😳😳😳😳
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Pancho Regan on April 24, 2020, 08:11:12 am
You really couldn't make it up could you?!
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Filo on April 24, 2020, 08:20:20 am
You really couldn't make it up could you?!

Domestos, kills all known germs 😂
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Hounslowrover on April 24, 2020, 08:31:13 am
He's amazing, we know disinfectant kills the virus, but so does soap and water, I'm surprised we aren't injecting that too.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on April 24, 2020, 09:00:36 am
This from Wiki tells you a lot about trump

Early life and education

In 1964, Trump enrolled at Fordham University. Two years later he transferred to the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania.[6] While at Wharton, he worked at the family business, Elizabeth Trump & Son.[7]

He graduated in May 1968 with a B.S. in economics.[6][8] Profiles of Trump published in The New York Times in 1973 and 1976 erroneously reported that he had graduated first in his class at Wharton, but he had never made the school's honor roll.[9]

In 2015, Trump's lawyer Michael Cohen threatened Fordham University and the New York Military Academy with legal action if they released Trump's academic records.[10]

we all know what BS means in this case?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Pancho Regan on April 24, 2020, 09:27:38 am
Criticising President Trump?
Wash your mouth out with soap!

Or disinfectant.........
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on April 24, 2020, 09:53:21 am
Simply unbelievable isn't it. What an utter prick. I just hope to God none of his adoring supporters try this.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on April 24, 2020, 10:19:34 am
Colonel Dr Deborah Birx is the immunologist who has stood beside Trump at the briefings and not criticised his previous ramblings.

Here she is having that existential moment when you search inside your soul to ask yourself if you can publicly stand up to the madman. And realise that you don't have the courage to do so. And then realise how you will be viewed by history.

Take Camera 2 tweet...

https://mobile.twitter.com/NC5PhilWilliams/status/1253487743046385670
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on April 24, 2020, 10:25:36 am
Mind. Maybe Trump is right about UV.

He's been circulating round a lot of people who have had the virus and his permatanned hide hasn't succumbed yet.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on April 24, 2020, 10:33:55 am
Actually, just thinking about that video. The implications are terrifying.

It sounds like in a private briefing Trump has said, "Hey, what about injecting disinfectant!"

And the advisors know they can't say, "100% no Mr President. That is ridiculous and incredibly dangerous." Because they know he'll fly off into a rage if he's stood up to.

So she mentally facepalms and says "Yes Mr President, we'll look into that."

What other sequence of events could explain that audio and visual?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on April 24, 2020, 10:52:44 am
He must think he's the oracle, thousand upon thousands of scientists around the world and none of them thought to inject disinfectant to kill a virus.

His agents phone must be ringing of the hook

Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: IDM on April 24, 2020, 11:00:12 am
What a stupid Kitson..
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Copps is Magic on April 24, 2020, 11:06:44 am
I would have loved Freud, Jung to have been around today to texamine his specimen.

Its an ego having a protracted war with neural pathways.

I saw him a few days ago having a lucid conversation with a woman about Lyme's disease. He knew the cause, pathology, he almost seemed compassionate.

And then he stands on national TV discussing injecting disenfectant into the lungs.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on April 24, 2020, 11:10:24 am
Antone can send him a letter of ecouragement

https://www.whitehouse.gov/get-involved/write-or-call/
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Copps is Magic on April 24, 2020, 11:16:36 am
The worst of it all... he will win the next election. The democrats have put forward a candidate who literally can not string two coherent sentences together and has a trail of sexual abuse claims behind him. Said it with Hilary and I will say it with Biden.

It truly is something to despair over.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on April 24, 2020, 11:18:16 am
That sounds the same as trump?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: selby on April 24, 2020, 11:19:20 am
  According to a report today the States population is 330 million the equal of the Five of the  biggest Eu countries. The death rate from covid 19 is double that of the States according to them.
 Are they doing something right compared with Europe?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on April 24, 2020, 11:30:08 am
That's true selby, but it depends on how far along the journey each country has gone.

https://aatishb.com/covidtrends/

Have a look at this graph, click the linear scale on the bottom right and restart it on the bottomm left.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on April 24, 2020, 12:09:06 pm
  According to a report today the States population is 330 million the equal of the Five of the  biggest Eu countries. The death rate from covid 19 is double that of the States according to them.
 Are they doing something right compared with Europe?

Selby. No, they are not doing anything better than Europe. They are merely not as far advanced in their epidemic. Be very careful when you listen to people who are going to use this epidemic to score political points.

Below is a graph of how the daily death toll has evolved against the total number of deaths at any point in time. I've summed UK, Italy, France, Spain and Germany  which, put together, have about the same population as the USA. It's obvious that the two data sets are broadly equivalent. It's just that America has a lot further to go. Evidence of that? The European countries, collectively are doing more testing than the USA. Yesterday, they recorded 16,000 new cases. The USA recorded 32,000.

Both the USA and the big European countries are going to end up with somewhere between 100-200k deaths in this first wave. Neither side comes out of this well (other than Germany, which, like California in the USA, has done a stunning job and has lessons for the rest of us).
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on April 24, 2020, 12:33:13 pm
Selby

There IS one major difference between Western Europe's response to the crisis and America's.

In Western Europe, (including us, of course) there has been massive Govt support for jobs and businesses, which has meant that (so far) the increase in unemployment has been not catastrophic.

In America, there has been no such support. And unemployment has gone up from below 6 million to over 27 million.

Just read that again. Unemployment has gone up nearly 500%.

Yes, they have sent out $1,200 cheques to every worker, with Trump's name on them. But that doesn't come close to the furlough scheme that we have introduced throughout most of Western Europe.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on April 24, 2020, 12:40:50 pm
sorry bst have I questioned this, I'm well aware of the unemployment in the USA?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: selby on April 24, 2020, 12:45:39 pm
  Syd, every death anywhere is a tragedy that leaves questions both personally and government wise could it have been avoided?
  Playing the blame game politically can only be done in hindsight, and only satisfies those who want to see certain conclusions and does nothing to alleviate  the suffering of the people who have got caught up with the virus.
  Lessons will be learnt, I hope mostly in the management area of the NHS. especially procurement where heads want to roll.
  Apart from Germany, in Europe most health systems in different countries look like they are going to come out of this with roughly the same numbers, concentrations of numbers in urbanisation's looking to me to be a big problem, and is born out in heat maps even in this country, so you could guess that public transport, entertainment centres, shopping centres, and large work places, which are centred mainly in towns and cities are the main areas of contamination.
    Yes as a country we could have been quicker to lock down, but how much blame can be on the population who that last weekend of freedom despite government advice threw caution to the wind like never before, and in many cases went to parts of the country they had never been before.
   I think the government and to an extent the opposition in their limited way have given a good lead, the weaknesses in the bureaucratic back up was always going to be exposed, and that is where changes have to be made, and the duffers got rid of. A lesson for the future and Brexit is that the two main parties are better working together than just flying away at right angles to each other to try and score Browny points.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on April 24, 2020, 12:47:19 pm
And why are you telling me selby? I think a good look in the mirror would be in order
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on April 24, 2020, 12:49:05 pm
The worst of it all... he will win the next election. The democrats have put forward a candidate who literally can not string two coherent sentences together and has a trail of sexual abuse claims behind him. Said it with Hilary and I will say it with Biden.

It truly is something to despair over.
I agree. I don't see any way Trump loses, I really don't.

On a lighter (scarier?) note, in case anyone hasn't seen the Las Vegas mayor interview yet: https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/1253323490356166663?s=20
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Superspy on April 24, 2020, 01:21:31 pm
The worst of it all... he will win the next election. The democrats have put forward a candidate who literally can not string two coherent sentences together and has a trail of sexual abuse claims behind him. Said it with Hilary and I will say it with Biden.

It truly is something to despair over.
I agree. I don't see any way Trump loses, I really don't.

On a lighter (scarier?) note, in case anyone hasn't seen the Las Vegas mayor interview yet: https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/1253323490356166663?s=20

Good god.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: selby on April 24, 2020, 01:28:08 pm
  Because you and others on here are on a political crusade Syd, and turn everything to show how right you are and how wrong others who don't agree are.
  I honestly think that the media having the same approach to the last election and Brexit just encouraged people to dig their heals in and turned them off, putting reams of stats and disrespecting people  and basically treating them as if they are idiots gets the same result. A big F*** off pill.
   
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on April 24, 2020, 01:40:59 pm
I'm on the side of good politics, honest politics, progressive politics, whereas you have made some quite ourageous accusations about what you think others motives are and then pretend you're just fishing to cover your blushes and you have a jaundiced view of 'today's young people'

Whatever you think of others on here take it up with them not me. You voted for this shower and bragged about it, it's about time you owned it and stopped making excuses for them.

If you have a problem with any particular post I make please refer to it and I'll be happy to put you right or apologise if I'm wrong, the latter I don't if ever see from you, so don't presume to give me a lecture on what you think I think.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on April 24, 2020, 01:41:54 pm
sorry bst have I questioned this, I'm well aware of the unemployment in the USA?

Sorry Sydney. That was an answer to Selby.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on April 24, 2020, 01:54:15 pm
Maybe I'm missing something about the US election, but I don't understand why people on the left think Trump is a shoo-in now Sanders has stepped down.

The Deomocrats need to win Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan or Florida plus one of those three. They are well ahead in the first three and neck and neck in Florida according to polls.

And straight Biden-vs-Trump polls have Biden well ahead nationally, and doing much, much better than Sanders did on the same polling question.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: silent majority on April 24, 2020, 02:58:43 pm
The worst of it all... he will win the next election. The democrats have put forward a candidate who literally can not string two coherent sentences together and has a trail of sexual abuse claims behind him. Said it with Hilary and I will say it with Biden.

It truly is something to despair over.
I agree. I don't see any way Trump loses, I really don't.

On a lighter (scarier?) note, in case anyone hasn't seen the Las Vegas mayor interview yet: https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/1253323490356166663?s=20

Brain cells in short supply. To fill hotel beds you need tourists, and aeroplanes, and people in work. Doh!!
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: silent majority on April 24, 2020, 03:01:01 pm
BST,

All that could change shortly. Those south eastern states are colluding to ensure they can get back to work asap.

Maybe the penny will drop at some point when they start dropping like flies.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: IDM on April 24, 2020, 04:56:28 pm
..or when there’s a cluster of deaths from self-injecting bleach.!
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Filo on April 24, 2020, 05:01:30 pm
Sod the booze Professor Trump has spoken 😂😂
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on April 24, 2020, 06:06:49 pm
BST,

All that could change shortly. Those south eastern states are colluding to ensure they can get back to work asap.

Maybe the penny will drop at some point when they start dropping like flies.


I cannot understand what is pushing Republicans to press for a relaxation of the suppression strategy. It cannot be politically motivated. If they go back to business as usual, even at the lower end of the predictions, there will be a million deaths over the summer and the health system will cease to function. Add if the number of key workers who will be off for weeks with non-fatal doses and the carnage is barely imaginable. They'll be hounded out of office across the country in November if they allow that to happen.

So why are they driving for it? Is it just rank stupidity?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Filo on April 24, 2020, 06:08:40 pm
BST,

All that could change shortly. Those south eastern states are colluding to ensure they can get back to work asap.

Maybe the penny will drop at some point when they start dropping like flies.


I cannot understand what is pushing Republicans to press for a relaxation of the suppression strategy. It cannot be politically motivated. If they go back to business as usual, even at the lower end of the predictions, there will be a million deaths over the summer and the health system will cease to function. Add if the number of key workers who will be off for weeks with non-fatal doses and the carnage is barely imaginable. They'll be hounded out of office across the country in November if they allow that to happen.

So why are they driving for it? Is it just rank stupidity?

It’s America, rank stupidity is in their make up, especially the rednecks
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Sprotyrover on April 24, 2020, 06:14:28 pm
BST,

All that could change shortly. Those south eastern states are colluding to ensure they can get back to work asap.

Maybe the penny will drop at some point when they start dropping like flies.


I cannot understand what is pushing Republicans to press for a relaxation of the suppression strategy. It cannot be politically motivated. If they go back to business as usual, even at the lower end of the predictions, there will be a million deaths over the summer and the health system will cease to function. Add if the number of key workers who will be off for weeks with non-fatal doses and the carnage is barely imaginable. They'll be hounded out of office across the country in November if they allow that to happen.

So why are they driving for it? Is it just rank stupidity?

It’s America, rank stupidity is in their make up, especially the rednecks

Maybe Trump could demonstrate (on himself) how to inject Domestos ?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BigH on April 24, 2020, 07:13:02 pm
Trump is a great communicator. It's what he does best.

And he's playing the American electorate for all it's worth right now.

The only thing that matters to him is the re-polarisation of his vote. After all what has he got to lose?

Play to their ignorance and prejudices. Lie. Lie some more. It worked last time. He hopes that it'll work again.

The worst thing that can happen? He loses a job that he's probably fed up of.

And you know what? Boris Johnson is just the same.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on April 24, 2020, 07:44:42 pm
Maybe I'm missing something about the US election, but I don't understand why people on the left think Trump is a shoo-in now Sanders has stepped down.

The Deomocrats need to win Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan or Florida plus one of those three. They are well ahead in the first three and neck and neck in Florida according to polls.

And straight Biden-vs-Trump polls have Biden well ahead nationally, and doing much, much better than Sanders did on the same polling question.

Anyway. Here's a slam dunk election winning poster.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWYLUDrXYAEe4Vm?format=jpg&name=small
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on April 24, 2020, 08:38:47 pm
BST,

All that could change shortly. Those south eastern states are colluding to ensure they can get back to work asap.

Maybe the penny will drop at some point when they start dropping like flies.


I cannot understand what is pushing Republicans to press for a relaxation of the suppression strategy. It cannot be politically motivated. If they go back to business as usual, even at the lower end of the predictions, there will be a million deaths over the summer and the health system will cease to function. Add if the number of key workers who will be off for weeks with non-fatal doses and the carnage is barely imaginable. They'll be hounded out of office across the country in November if they allow that to happen.

So why are they driving for it? Is it just rank stupidity?

Or could it be something as cynical as:

Poor people with crap medical cover + greater spread of Covid-19 = bigger proportion of dead poor people = fewer Democrat voters? :silly:
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BigH on April 24, 2020, 09:08:41 pm
BST,

All that could change shortly. Those south eastern states are colluding to ensure they can get back to work asap.

Maybe the penny will drop at some point when they start dropping like flies.


I cannot understand what is pushing Republicans to press for a relaxation of the suppression strategy. It cannot be politically motivated. If they go back to business as usual, even at the lower end of the predictions, there will be a million deaths over the summer and the health system will cease to function. Add if the number of key workers who will be off for weeks with non-fatal doses and the carnage is barely imaginable. They'll be hounded out of office across the country in November if they allow that to happen.

So why are they driving for it? Is it just rank stupidity?

Or could it be something as cynical as:

Poor people with crap medical cover + greater spread of Covid-19 = bigger proportion of dead poor people = fewer Democrat voters? :silly:
Too thought out.

I'd go with rank stupidity.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: scawsby steve on April 24, 2020, 09:10:42 pm
If Trump does win, the Rovers foodbank gets £80 instead of £50.

Silver linings and all that?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: wilts rover on April 24, 2020, 09:36:36 pm
I think the American left not believing Biden can beat Trump is down to how they think he will fare in the tv debates - which are supposed to play a big part in the US elections.

Personally I would be very surprised to see the elections held this November - why would Trump hold them if he thinks he might loose and he can 'postpone' them for the pandemic. There wont be a vaccine by then.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BigH on April 24, 2020, 10:07:00 pm
If Trump does win, the Rovers foodbank gets £80 instead of £50.

Silver linings and all that?
Absolutely SS. I think we're all praying for it now aren't we.

F*c* me.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BigH on April 24, 2020, 10:08:22 pm
I think the American left not believing Biden can beat Trump is down to how they think he will fare in the tv debates - which are supposed to play a big part in the US elections.

Personally I would be very surprised to see the elections held this November - why would Trump hold them if he thinks he might loose and he can 'postpone' them for the pandemic. There wont be a vaccine by then.
To be fair to Trump I don't think it'll be his decision.

The Republican Party will decide how to play it.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on April 25, 2020, 10:26:31 am
sorry bst have I questioned this, I'm well aware of the unemployment in the USA?

Sorry Sydney. That was an answer to Selby.

understandable
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Sandy Lane on April 25, 2020, 04:22:16 pm
Hi all, hope you are doing well.  Best wishes to those who are sick or know someone who is.  Sadly, I can’t see this ending anytime soon, particularly here in the US - with a fractured Federal government and an incompetent lunatic in charge.  I hope Boris is smarter after his brush with death and makes more informed decisions regarding your country.

But after reading this thread and also the Coronavirus thread, I just wanted to address some of your posts about politics here in the US.  Here is some information which you can take or leave.  But tbh, sometimes I despair reading these threads so have not read them as much of late.  But here goes:

Trumps’s daily “covid19 briefings” aka political rallies are showing his base how bat sh*t crazy he really is.  They can ignore the back and forth of politics, but they are seeing - daily - how he lies and has not led the nation during this crisis.  The buck will stop with him and the deaths of thousands of people are directly attributable to his failure to act sooner.  And people know this.

As for Biden - all polls show Biden ahead and by some accounts is expected to win by a landslide. But I wanted to say to CIM that he does not have dementia but has a problem with stuttering and has his whole life.  I also used to get nervous when hearing him hesitate when speaking, but I also see him doing a great job at other times.  He himself has explained this during his town hall meetings.  The disinformation on having dementia is being put out by Trumpists to discredit him.  Also, there are not many many women accusing him of sexual misconduct (even though he can get too close at times and sort of creepy).  There is one and she is not being taken seriously, so may also be a set up.  But I’m just not sure. 

So while many may think Americans are “stupid” for electing Trump, please remember that Hillary Clinton should have won but for Russian interference and imho Comey’s untimely reopening of her email debate within ten days of the election.

If there is a silver lining in this, it’s that we are all seeing Trump hoisted with his own petard every day as he tries to downplay this epidemic as people are dying-  which he ignores - and talks himself up.

I’ll try to post a link to a letter sent to our governor, Gov Cuomo (thank the lord for him) from a farmer in the heartland who sees through Trump and thanks Cuomo for giving us the truth. It made me cry and gave me hope.

Please take care of yourselves and your loved ones.

https://twitter.com/NYGovCuomo/status/1253729749177970689

P.S.  If anyone was wondering, Trump can’t cancel the election though he may try.  It’s a law and would need congress to pass legislation - but that won’t happen.  Also, according to an amendment to the constitution the president’s and Vice President’s terms end on January 20, so if elections were not held, their terms would expire and Pelosi would probably be in charge
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on April 25, 2020, 05:48:46 pm
How can Trump cancel the election when according to him there's nothing to worry about? :silly:
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: wilts rover on April 25, 2020, 08:58:52 pm
At least 30 New Yorkers ingested household cleaner (and were hospitalised) after Trump told them to try it

https://twitter.com/dabeard/status/1253900585952313345
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BigH on April 25, 2020, 09:40:35 pm
More fool them.

Eejits.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Filo on April 25, 2020, 09:52:21 pm
At least 30 New Yorkers ingested household cleaner (and were hospitalised) after Trump told them to try it

https://twitter.com/dabeard/status/1253900585952313345

Natural selection!
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on April 25, 2020, 09:56:31 pm
At least 30 New Yorkers ingested household cleaner (and were hospitalised) after Trump told them to try it

https://twitter.com/dabeard/status/1253900585952313345

Natural selection!

You try telling that to the Creationists in the Bible Belt! :lol:
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Metalmicky on April 25, 2020, 10:08:38 pm
We could choose Donalds way.........  Slange Var folks!!

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Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: drfchound on April 25, 2020, 10:11:12 pm
At least 30 New Yorkers ingested household cleaner (and were hospitalised) after Trump told them to try it

https://twitter.com/dabeard/status/1253900585952313345







I wasn’t aware that Trump had told anyone to try it.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on April 25, 2020, 10:51:39 pm
At least 30 New Yorkers ingested household cleaner (and were hospitalised) after Trump told them to try it

https://twitter.com/dabeard/status/1253900585952313345







I wasn’t aware that Trump had told anyone to try it.

Rather disingenuous.

He's the President of the USA.

The Leader of the Free World.

The LEADER. People look to leaders for leadership in crises. Especially desperate people.

The man is an utter Kitson. A moral vacuum. He doesn't give a f**k who he hurts. He's repulsive.

But no. You're right. He didn't tell anyone to do it. By his claims he was just trolling the Press.

What a decline from FDR and JFK to this waste of skin. Pathetically making up an excuse that he is trolling the Press in the middle of a catastrophe, to hide his own narcissistic f**king stupidity.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: drfchound on April 25, 2020, 11:02:53 pm
At least 30 New Yorkers ingested household cleaner (and were hospitalised) after Trump told them to try it

https://twitter.com/dabeard/status/1253900585952313345







I wasn’t aware that Trump had told anyone to try it.

Rather disingenuous.

He's the President of the USA.

The Leader of the Free World.

The LEADER. People look to leaders for leadership in crises. Especially desperate people.

The man is an utter Kitson. A moral vacuum. He doesn't give a f**k who he hurts. He's repulsive.

But no. You're right. He didn't tell anyone to do it. By his claims he was just trolling the Press.

What a decline from FDR and JFK to this waste of skin. Pathetically making up an excuse that he is trolling the Press in the middle of a catastrophe, to hide his own narcissistic f**king stupidity.






You won’t find an argument from me to all of that BST.
There is no way he was being sarcastic, the man is crazy in a very dangerous way.
And.....no he didn’t actually tell anyone to try it, I am glad you agree.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: IDM on April 25, 2020, 11:27:13 pm
No, he seemed to be asking his scientific advisor to see if it could be done..

As if he needed to ask.!

Utter bell end.. I wouldn’t wish him on Leeds.!
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on April 25, 2020, 11:38:52 pm
No, he seemed to be asking his scientific advisor to see if it could be done..

As if he needed to ask.!

Utter hell end.. I wouldn’t wish him on Leeds.!

And like I said yesterday. It was obvious that he's actually asked those questions of his advisor in private, and she's been unable to say "No Mr President, we are NOT doing that, it is insane and dangerous" when he suggests something insane and dangerous. THAT is the truly frightening thing. He's such a sensitive ickle wickle ting that no-one dares contradict him.

Democracies only operate when you have strong people near the top, willing to speak truth to power. And leaders prepared to listen.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: wilts rover on April 26, 2020, 08:36:33 am
At least 30 New Yorkers ingested household cleaner (and were hospitalised) after Trump told them to try it

https://twitter.com/dabeard/status/1253900585952313345







I wasn’t aware that Trump had told anyone to try it.

Why do you think 30 New Yorkers did then hound?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Filo on April 26, 2020, 10:28:50 am
The man child refused to do a briefing yesterday saying it was not worth the time and effort because of the media hostile questions! De dums 😂😂😂
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: drfchound on April 26, 2020, 12:03:39 pm
At least 30 New Yorkers ingested household cleaner (and were hospitalised) after Trump told them to try it

https://twitter.com/dabeard/status/1253900585952313345







I wasn’t aware that Trump had told anyone to try it.

Why do you think 30 New Yorkers did then hound?







You had better ask them wilts.
Are you suggesting that Trump actually told them to do it.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on April 26, 2020, 12:10:23 pm
Hound.

Give it a rest. You KNOW what Wilts is saying. It's what I expanded on last night.

Some people trust leaders.
Some people are desperate for help.

Put the two together and there will INEVITABLY be some people who take Trump's words as a green light. So he's not telling them they MUST. He's telling them they CAN. And desperate people won't see the distinction.

Having an argument over the fact that he didn't stand there and say "Thou shalt inject bleach" is puerile. Give it a rest.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: drfchound on April 26, 2020, 12:15:32 pm
Hound.

Give it a rest. You KNOW what Wilts is saying. It's what I expanded on last night.

Some people trust leaders.
Some people are desperate for help.

Put the two together and there will INEVITABLY be some people who take Trump's words as a green light. So he's not telling them they MUST. He's telling them they CAN. And desperate people won't see the distinction.

Having an argument over the fact that he didn't stand there and say "Thou shalt inject bleach" is puerile. Give it a rest.







Give it a rest?
You what?
Wilts is the one who is spreading the bait here.

Trump certainly did not tell anyone to inject disinfectant.....he did not......clear enough.
Would you jump off the Don bridge if someone told you the fall would frighten the virus out of your body (if you had it).
Of course I agree that he was talking about it but he did not tell anyone to try it.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on April 26, 2020, 12:33:36 pm
At least 30 New Yorkers ingested household cleaner (and were hospitalised) after Trump told them to try it

https://twitter.com/dabeard/status/1253900585952313345







I wasn’t aware that Trump had told anyone to try it.

Why do you think 30 New Yorkers did then hound?







You had better ask them wilts.
Are you suggesting that Trump actually told them to do it.

Well, you appear to be suggesting that 30 individual people, independently of each other, suddenly decided to ingest something potentially lethal and that it's a complete coincidence that Trump said doing just would kill the virus in his briefing just before they all did it.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on April 26, 2020, 12:37:40 pm
Hound.

You are doing the BB thing.

Ignoring the big picture and obsessing about linguistic and semantic detail.

But if you want to do that, here's the point. Trump did not EXPLICITLY tell people to ingest disinfectant.  He did IMPLICITLY tell vulnerable, desperate people who idolise him that it is ok to do so.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: drfchound on April 26, 2020, 01:56:42 pm
At least 30 New Yorkers ingested household cleaner (and were hospitalised) after Trump told them to try it

https://twitter.com/dabeard/status/1253900585952313345







I wasn’t aware that Trump had told anyone to try it.

Why do you think 30 New Yorkers did then hound?







You had better ask them wilts.
Are you suggesting that Trump actually told them to do it.

Well, you appear to be suggesting that 30 individual people, independently of each other, suddenly decided to ingest something potentially lethal and that it's a complete coincidence that Trump said doing just would kill the virus in his briefing just before they all did it.







Glyn, you getting involved was inevitable I suppose.
Whenever someone who isn’t onside with the Labour Party crew gets into a discussion with just one of you, the rest of the team pile in.
It happens time after time.
In response to your post though, I am suggesting f**k all.
I made one point, just one point.
There is no wonder that we see fewer and fewer people posting on this forum.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Filo on April 26, 2020, 01:59:42 pm
At least 30 New Yorkers ingested household cleaner (and were hospitalised) after Trump told them to try it

https://twitter.com/dabeard/status/1253900585952313345







I wasn’t aware that Trump had told anyone to try it.

Why do you think 30 New Yorkers did then hound?







You had better ask them wilts.
Are you suggesting that Trump actually told them to do it.

Well, you appear to be suggesting that 30 individual people, independently of each other, suddenly decided to ingest something potentially lethal and that it's a complete coincidence that Trump said doing just would kill the virus in his briefing just before they all did it.







Glyn, you getting involved was inevitable I suppose.
Whenever someone who isn’t onside with the Labour Party crew gets into a discussion with just one of you, the rest of the team pile in.
It happens time after time.
In response to your post though, I am suggesting f**k all.
I made one point, just one point.
There is no wonder that we see fewer and fewer people posting on this forum.


That same pile in happens with the pensioner tag team 😀
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: drfchound on April 26, 2020, 02:00:41 pm
At least 30 New Yorkers ingested household cleaner (and were hospitalised) after Trump told them to try it

https://twitter.com/dabeard/status/1253900585952313345







I wasn’t aware that Trump had told anyone to try it.

Why do you think 30 New Yorkers did then hound?







You had better ask them wilts.
Are you suggesting that Trump actually told them to do it.

Well, you appear to be suggesting that 30 individual people, independently of each other, suddenly decided to ingest something potentially lethal and that it's a complete coincidence that Trump said doing just would kill the virus in his briefing just before they all did it.







Glyn, you getting involved was inevitable I suppose.
Whenever someone who isn’t onside with the Labour Party crew gets into a discussion with just one of you, the rest of the team pile in.
It happens time after time.
In response to your post though, I am suggesting f**k all.
I made one point, just one point.
There is no wonder that we see fewer and fewer people posting on this forum.


That same pile in happens with the pensioner tag team 😀







Boom, there goes another one......inevitable.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Filo on April 26, 2020, 02:01:39 pm
At least 30 New Yorkers ingested household cleaner (and were hospitalised) after Trump told them to try it

https://twitter.com/dabeard/status/1253900585952313345







I wasn’t aware that Trump had told anyone to try it.

Why do you think 30 New Yorkers did then hound?







You had better ask them wilts.
Are you suggesting that Trump actually told them to do it.

Well, you appear to be suggesting that 30 individual people, independently of each other, suddenly decided to ingest something potentially lethal and that it's a complete coincidence that Trump said doing just would kill the virus in his briefing just before they all did it.







Glyn, you getting involved was inevitable I suppose.
Whenever someone who isn’t onside with the Labour Party crew gets into a discussion with just one of you, the rest of the team pile in.
It happens time after time.
In response to your post though, I am suggesting f**k all.
I made one point, just one point.
There is no wonder that we see fewer and fewer people posting on this forum.


That same pile in happens with the pensioner tag team 😀







Boom, there goes another one......inevitable.

No pile in, just an observation
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: IDM on April 26, 2020, 02:03:35 pm
Trump didn’t directly tell people to inject disinfectant, but the fact that he brought the subject up in a way of questioning his scientific adviser if this was something which could be done, was bad enough.  Anyone with half a brain knows that’s not a good idea to start with, so why ask.?

People will choose to follow, whether this was advice or not.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on April 26, 2020, 02:17:50 pm
At least 30 New Yorkers ingested household cleaner (and were hospitalised) after Trump told them to try it

https://twitter.com/dabeard/status/1253900585952313345







I wasn’t aware that Trump had told anyone to try it.

Why do you think 30 New Yorkers did then hound?







You had better ask them wilts.
Are you suggesting that Trump actually told them to do it.

Well, you appear to be suggesting that 30 individual people, independently of each other, suddenly decided to ingest something potentially lethal and that it's a complete coincidence that Trump said doing just would kill the virus in his briefing just before they all did it.







Glyn, you getting involved was inevitable I suppose.
Whenever someone who isn’t onside with the Labour Party crew gets into a discussion with just one of you, the rest of the team pile in.
It happens time after time.
In response to your post though, I am suggesting f**k all.
I made one point, just one point.
There is no wonder that we see fewer and fewer people posting on this forum.


Making just one point. Like me, you mean? I write for myself, no-one else. Do you?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Bentley Bullet on April 26, 2020, 02:27:49 pm
Hound.

You are doing the BB thing.

Ignoring the big picture and obsessing about linguistic and semantic detail.

But if you want to do that, here's the point. Trump did not EXPLICITLY tell people to ingest disinfectant.  He did IMPLICITLY tell vulnerable, desperate people who idolise him that it is ok to do so.

BST, if you're going to use my name don't lie.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: wilts rover on April 26, 2020, 02:30:54 pm
At least 30 New Yorkers ingested household cleaner (and were hospitalised) after Trump told them to try it

https://twitter.com/dabeard/status/1253900585952313345







I wasn’t aware that Trump had told anyone to try it.

Why do you think 30 New Yorkers did then hound?







You had better ask them wilts.
Are you suggesting that Trump actually told them to do it.

I am asking you hound as you have commented on it. I doubt they will be well enough to ask for a while yet?

Why did 30 people in New York drink detergent?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: drfchound on April 26, 2020, 03:54:33 pm
At least 30 New Yorkers ingested household cleaner (and were hospitalised) after Trump told them to try it

https://twitter.com/dabeard/status/1253900585952313345







I wasn’t aware that Trump had told anyone to try it.

Why do you think 30 New Yorkers did then hound?







You had better ask them wilts.
Are you suggesting that Trump actually told them to do it.

Well, you appear to be suggesting that 30 individual people, independently of each other, suddenly decided to ingest something potentially lethal and that it's a complete coincidence that Trump said doing just would kill the virus in his briefing just before they all did it.







Glyn, you getting involved was inevitable I suppose.
Whenever someone who isn’t onside with the Labour Party crew gets into a discussion with just one of you, the rest of the team pile in.
It happens time after time.
In response to your post though, I am suggesting f**k all.
I made one point, just one point.
There is no wonder that we see fewer and fewer people posting on this forum.


Making just one point. Like me, you mean? I write for myself, no-one else. Do you?






I do, but you quickly join in with your mates.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: drfchound on April 26, 2020, 03:57:01 pm
At least 30 New Yorkers ingested household cleaner (and were hospitalised) after Trump told them to try it

https://twitter.com/dabeard/status/1253900585952313345







I wasn’t aware that Trump had told anyone to try it.

Why do you think 30 New Yorkers did then hound?







You had better ask them wilts.
Are you suggesting that Trump actually told them to do it.

I am asking you hound as you have commented on it. I doubt they will be well enough to ask for a while yet?

Why did 30 people in New York drink detergent?







Because Trump told them to, well according to you anyway.
I haven’t seen anyone else say that he actually told them to do so.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on April 26, 2020, 03:58:09 pm
Hound.

You seem to have a blind spot for these threads were these "mates" have quite strident differences of opinion.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Nudga on April 26, 2020, 03:58:55 pm
Is it possible that Trump was actually saying "either pump yourself full of Gates' aluminium vaccine or pump yourself full of detergent"?

I don't know, is Trump that clever?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on April 26, 2020, 04:00:24 pm
Hound

Simple questions.

Do you think Trump was stupid and dangerous to suggest ingesting detergent would help?

Do you think there was a risk that vulnerable, desperate people might take that as a green light?

In which case, if the answers are "yes" are you really making best use of your ire having this argument?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: drfchound on April 26, 2020, 04:06:39 pm
Hound

Simple questions.

Do you think Trump was stupid and dangerous to suggest ingesting detergent would help?

Do you think there was a risk that vulnerable, desperate people might take that as a green light?

In which case, if the answers are "yes" are you really making best use of your ire having this argument?







Let’s just take this back to the basics.
Post #108....wilts clearly says that Trump TOLD the New Yorkers to take the disinfectant.
I said that he hadn’t.
The usual suspects all pile in ( funnily enough, Syderney hasn’t.....but he will be along soon I reckon).
The rest of the argument is about deflecting the actual point I made.
Anyway, I am out if it now.
The group will have to find someone else to have a go at.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: i_ateallthepies on April 26, 2020, 04:57:29 pm
At least 30 New Yorkers ingested household cleaner (and were hospitalised) after Trump told them to try it

https://twitter.com/dabeard/status/1253900585952313345







I wasn’t aware that Trump had told anyone to try it.

Why do you think 30 New Yorkers did then hound?







You had better ask them wilts.
Are you suggesting that Trump actually told them to do it.

Well, you appear to be suggesting that 30 individual people, independently of each other, suddenly decided to ingest something potentially lethal and that it's a complete coincidence that Trump said doing just would kill the virus in his briefing just before they all did it.







Glyn, you getting involved was inevitable I suppose.
Whenever someone who isn’t onside with the Labour Party crew gets into a discussion with just one of you, the rest of the team pile in.
It happens time after time.
In response to your post though, I am suggesting f**k all.
I made one point, just one point.
There is no wonder that we see fewer and fewer people posting on this forum.


That same pile in happens with the pensioner tag team 😀

Chuff me! I'll be a pensioner next year, does that mean I'll have to become an argumentative t**t with no heart or brains?  Do you think injecting myself with disinfectant might cure it?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: wilts rover on April 26, 2020, 06:45:58 pm
Hound

Simple questions.

Do you think Trump was stupid and dangerous to suggest ingesting detergent would help?

Do you think there was a risk that vulnerable, desperate people might take that as a green light?

In which case, if the answers are "yes" are you really making best use of your ire having this argument?







Let’s just take this back to the basics.
Post #108....wilts clearly says that Trump TOLD the New Yorkers to take the disinfectant.
I said that he hadn’t.
The usual suspects all pile in ( funnily enough, Syderney hasn’t.....but he will be along soon I reckon).
The rest of the argument is about deflecting the actual point I made.
Anyway, I am out if it now.
The group will have to find someone else to have a go at.

Sorry hound, I certainly didn't ask anyone to join in - but its an open forum.

As far as I can remember you and I have always had very civil arguments/disagreements. And please take it as compliment that I hope we have many more in the years to come.

Stay safe.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on April 26, 2020, 07:57:40 pm
At least 30 New Yorkers ingested household cleaner (and were hospitalised) after Trump told them to try it

https://twitter.com/dabeard/status/1253900585952313345







I wasn’t aware that Trump had told anyone to try it.

Why do you think 30 New Yorkers did then hound?







You had better ask them wilts.
Are you suggesting that Trump actually told them to do it.

Well, you appear to be suggesting that 30 individual people, independently of each other, suddenly decided to ingest something potentially lethal and that it's a complete coincidence that Trump said doing just would kill the virus in his briefing just before they all did it.







Glyn, you getting involved was inevitable I suppose.
Whenever someone who isn’t onside with the Labour Party crew gets into a discussion with just one of you, the rest of the team pile in.
It happens time after time.
In response to your post though, I am suggesting f**k all.
I made one point, just one point.
There is no wonder that we see fewer and fewer people posting on this forum.


Making just one point. Like me, you mean? I write for myself, no-one else. Do you?






I do, but you quickly join in with your mates.

I'm not 'joining in' with anybody. If I see someone spouting what I think is rubbish I'll react to it. On my own, speaking for no-one but myself. I've said all this to you before but it seems the paranoia has gripped you once again.

PS As I'm currently recovering from the virus and at the same time having to look after my missus who is worse than I am, I don't think I'm doing anything quickly. Certainly not look through threads and see who's posting in them to help me decide to 'join in' with anything. So get that through your head or I'll come and breathe on you instead.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on April 26, 2020, 08:02:50 pm
At the risk of appearsing to pile on, that's the bit I don;t get myself. If several people think *I* am talking b*llocks and say so, it never strikes me as some sort of co-ordinated attack. Just several individuals taking issue with what I've said.

Isn't that obvious?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: drfchound on April 26, 2020, 08:05:17 pm
Glyn, sorry to hear about your health issues and I hope that you and your wife pull through.
To put this discussion to bed though, please have a read of post #138.
There are lots of people on the forum who speak about “only dealing with facts”, not speculation.
My comment about Trump not telling anyone to take disinfectant is a fact.
Anything else being suggested is only speculative.

PS: I am glad you don’t live near me otherwise will would probably have to lock my gates more often.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on April 26, 2020, 08:12:51 pm
Glyn.

Good luck with your recovery.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: wilts rover on April 26, 2020, 08:56:53 pm
All the best Glyn.

And please, stay off the bleach. Whatever Trumps says.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on April 26, 2020, 09:07:24 pm
When you have the virus you don't want to eat or drink much at all anyway. I dropped two stone, which ordinarily I wouldn't have minded in the slightest, but doing it in two weeks wasn't the best way to do it!
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on April 26, 2020, 09:58:25 pm
Whoa!

Reminds me of when I had salmonella 15 years back. Cracking way to lose 2 stone in a fortnight.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: IDM on April 27, 2020, 12:44:40 am
At least 30 New Yorkers ingested household cleaner (and were hospitalised) after Trump told them to try it

https://twitter.com/dabeard/status/1253900585952313345







I wasn’t aware that Trump had told anyone to try it.

Why do you think 30 New Yorkers did then hound?







You had better ask them wilts.
Are you suggesting that Trump actually told them to do it.

Well, you appear to be suggesting that 30 individual people, independently of each other, suddenly decided to ingest something potentially lethal and that it's a complete coincidence that Trump said doing just would kill the virus in his briefing just before they all did it.







Glyn, you getting involved was inevitable I suppose.
Whenever someone who isn’t onside with the Labour Party crew gets into a discussion with just one of you, the rest of the team pile in.
It happens time after time.
In response to your post though, I am suggesting f**k all.
I made one point, just one point.
There is no wonder that we see fewer and fewer people posting on this forum.


Making just one point. Like me, you mean? I write for myself, no-one else. Do you?






I do, but you quickly join in with your mates.

I'm not 'joining in' with anybody. If I see someone spouting what I think is rubbish I'll react to it. On my own, speaking for no-one but myself. I've said all this to you before but it seems the paranoia has gripped you once again.

PS As I'm currently recovering from the virus and at the same time having to look after my missus who is worse than I am, I don't think I'm doing anything quickly. Certainly not look through threads and see who's posting in them to help me decide to 'join in' with anything. So get that through your head or I'll come and breathe on you instead.

Best wishes to both of you..
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on April 27, 2020, 03:09:42 am
Get better soon Glyn, I don't suppose you really need the advice of the part-time forum moderators but it's alway good for a laugh which may help cheer you up during your recovery.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Ldr on April 27, 2020, 09:19:03 am
Hope you are better soon Glyn
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on April 27, 2020, 09:31:59 am
Thanks everybody. I'm pretty much OK now, apart from having to pace myself and do things even slower than normal. I was bad for a couple of weeks when I had flu/loss of appetite and the coughing and accompanying shortness of breath due to fluid in the lungs. Those two are the real problems - any (and I mean any, however slight) movement makes you short of breath, which makes you cough, which makes you gasp for breath even more, which makes you want to cough more: it's a real vicious cycle. Just going from the bed to the loo was enough to set me off.

I was extremely lucky, however. I discovered that if I laid down and raised my top half at about 135 degrees, it miraculously eased the pressure on my lungs and I could breath fairly easily and therefore not be coughing all the time. Unfortunately the missus wasn't as lucky as me and couldn't get that ease of breathing so she was coughing and gasping all the time, which ended with her having to go into hospital - which frightened the life out of me on her behalf. Thankfully they let her come home after a week, and although she is getting better little bit by little bit, two weeks later she's still coughing a lot and only just able to tackle the stairs (I had to set up a bed downstairs for her).

So...we're getting there, albeit slowly. She's even planning a weekend break for when it's all over - if she can find somewhere that's open!
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: i_ateallthepies on April 27, 2020, 09:38:05 am
Great to hear you are both on the mend, Glynn.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on April 27, 2020, 09:38:46 am
It sounds terrifying all the best SR
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on April 27, 2020, 11:59:24 pm
I see he's at it again. Playing politics with the crisis, the amoral Kitson.

Here he is questioning why the Federal Govt should financially help out Democrat-run states with CV-19 bailouts.
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/494807-trump-asks-why-taxpayers-should-help-bail-out-democrat-run-states

Here are the facts on the degree to which Democrat-run states subsidise the idle, feckless layabouts [1] in Republican states 365 days of the year.

https://apnews.com/2f83c72de1bd440d92cdbc0d3b6bc08c/AP-FACT-CHECK:-Blue-high-tax-states-fund-red-low-tax-states


[1] I shouldn't have to say this, but for the record, that is ironic use of right wing language for those who take out rather than put in. I don't really think they are layabouts. They just happen to have the misfortune to live in states that are run by economically illiterate Republicans.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: ravenrover on April 28, 2020, 10:13:08 am
Accepting no responsibility, in his latest press con, for the hospital admissions due to people using bleach to prevent Covid
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on April 30, 2020, 10:41:34 pm
''Trump erupts over poll slump and threatens to sue campaign manager

President blows his top in Friday argument and reportedly tells Brad Parscale ‘I’m not f**king losing to Joe Biden’ in November''

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/30/trump-brad-parscale-campaign-manager

Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Filo on April 30, 2020, 10:48:53 pm
''Trump erupts over poll slump and threatens to sue campaign manager

President blows his top in Friday argument and reportedly tells Brad Parscale ‘I’m not f**king losing to Joe Biden’ in November''

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/30/trump-brad-parscale-campaign-manager



I love this quote from him

“ “I believe the people of this country are smart. And I don’t think that they will put a man in who’s incompetent”


😂😂😂😂😂😂


I think they already done that Donald old chap 😂😂😂😂😂
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: tommy toes on April 30, 2020, 10:51:45 pm
Glyn
Sorry only just caught up on this topic.
I hope you and your wife are feeling much better now.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: tyke1962 on April 30, 2020, 11:01:01 pm
I see he's at it again. Playing politics with the crisis, the amoral Kitson.

Here he is questioning why the Federal Govt should financially help out Democrat-run states with CV-19 bailouts.
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/494807-trump-asks-why-taxpayers-should-help-bail-out-democrat-run-states

Here are the facts on the degree to which Democrat-run states subsidise the idle, feckless layabouts [1] in Republican states 365 days of the year.

https://apnews.com/2f83c72de1bd440d92cdbc0d3b6bc08c/AP-FACT-CHECK:-Blue-high-tax-states-fund-red-low-tax-states


[1] I shouldn't have to say this, but for the record, that is ironic use of right wing language for those who take out rather than put in. I don't really think they are layabouts. They just happen to have the misfortune to live in states that are run by economically illiterate Republicans.


I think there's quite a lot riding on the US election for us in the UK Billy .

If Trump loses to Biden then it could and should be the end of the populist idiots , which isn't to say Biden is all that but I'm sure you take my point .

Slay the biggest monster and the rest will disappear .
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on April 30, 2020, 11:17:33 pm
''Trump erupts over poll slump and threatens to sue campaign manager

President blows his top in Friday argument and reportedly tells Brad Parscale ‘I’m not f**king losing to Joe Biden’ in November''

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/30/trump-brad-parscale-campaign-manager



I had to read that three times.

First twice I thought Trump's campaign manager was Joe Pasquale.

That would explain a lot.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on May 01, 2020, 12:28:08 am
Look like orange boy wants to counter media surrounding the news that US Intelligence that says the virus wasn't man-made.

''Trump claims he has seen evidence of Covid-19 originating in Wuhan lab
When asked if he has seen anything that gives you a “high degree of confidence” that coronavirus originated at the Wuhan Institute of Virology, President Trump replied: “Yes, I have.”''
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Filo on May 01, 2020, 02:24:47 pm
This shows what a f**ked up Country like America is

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-politicians-in-bulletproof-vests-as-protesters-with-rifles-enter-state-capitol-11981694
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: scawsby steve on May 01, 2020, 08:26:05 pm
Now there are sexual allegations being made against Sleepy Joe. Maybe they're untrue, but you know what political witch-hunts are like in the US.

What goes around comes around.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: selby on May 01, 2020, 09:07:01 pm
 I always liked the Mark Twain quotes
 If voting made a difference, they wouldn't let us do it.
 And,
 We have the best government money can buy
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: wilts rover on May 01, 2020, 09:08:27 pm
Now there are sexual allegations being made against Sleepy Joe. Maybe they're untrue, but you know what political witch-hunts are like in the US.

What goes around comes around.

Yes imagine America voting in a President who had sexual allegations hanging over them. It could never happpen...
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: scawsby steve on May 01, 2020, 09:30:36 pm
Now there are sexual allegations being made against Sleepy Joe. Maybe they're untrue, but you know what political witch-hunts are like in the US.

What goes around comes around.

Yes imagine America voting in a President who had sexual allegations hanging over them. It could never happpen...

Dead true Wilts, but at least it puts it all on an even keel. Which is exactly my point.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: wilts rover on May 01, 2020, 09:45:59 pm
Now there are sexual allegations being made against Sleepy Joe. Maybe they're untrue, but you know what political witch-hunts are like in the US.

What goes around comes around.

Yes imagine America voting in a President who had sexual allegations hanging over them. It could never happpen...

Dead true Wilts, but at least it puts it all on an even keel. Which is exactly my point.

JFK
Clinton

nah I reckon the Democrats are well ahead
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: scawsby steve on May 01, 2020, 09:53:51 pm
Now there are sexual allegations being made against Sleepy Joe. Maybe they're untrue, but you know what political witch-hunts are like in the US.

What goes around comes around.

Yes imagine America voting in a President who had sexual allegations hanging over them. It could never happpen...

Dead true Wilts, but at least it puts it all on an even keel. Which is exactly my point.

JFK
Clinton

nah I reckon the Democrats are well ahead

Do you reckon JFK actually did give Marilyn one?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: wilts rover on May 01, 2020, 10:39:07 pm
Now there are sexual allegations being made against Sleepy Joe. Maybe they're untrue, but you know what political witch-hunts are like in the US.

What goes around comes around.

Yes imagine America voting in a President who had sexual allegations hanging over them. It could never happpen...

Dead true Wilts, but at least it puts it all on an even keel. Which is exactly my point.

JFK
Clinton

nah I reckon the Democrats are well ahead

Do you reckon JFK actually did give Marilyn one?

He'd be a fool if he didn't and I never made him out to be a fool.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Donnywolf on May 02, 2020, 07:18:46 am
''Trump erupts over poll slump and threatens to sue campaign manager

President blows his top in Friday argument and reportedly tells Brad Parscale ‘I’m not f**king losing to Joe Biden’ in November''

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/30/trump-brad-parscale-campaign-manager



I had to read that three times.

First twice I thought Trump's campaign manager was Joe Pasquale.

That would explain a lot.

... well he squeaked home v Hilary Clinton (although of course she got more votes than him across that great Land)
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on May 11, 2020, 12:14:38 pm
Just watching a US PBS prog on how the virus got into the US and Washington State indentified patient 1, not sure what the prog is called will post if I can find it.

Washington State had it sussed by Feb 4 and then were frustrated by you know who, it's worth a watch if you can access it.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on May 11, 2020, 12:18:28 pm
Big news that I'd missed over the weekend.

CV-19 appears to be running amok in the White House. Trump's personal valet has tested positive, as has one of Pence's personal assistants, and Stephen Miller, a senior Trump adviser.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on May 11, 2020, 12:20:27 pm
Just watching a US PBS prog on how the virus got into the US and Washington State indentified patient 1, not sure what the prog is called will post if I can find it.

Washington State had it sussed by Feb 4 and then were frustrated by you know who, it's worth a watch if you can access it.

The prog is called 'Trump and Covid 19' of course it was.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on May 11, 2020, 12:23:09 pm
Big news that I'd missed over the weekend.

CV-19 appears to be running amok in the White House. Trump's personal valet has tested positive, as has one of Pence's personal assistants, and Stephen Miller, a senior Trump adviser.

Not unexpected when you think about it for about a second.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on May 12, 2020, 07:14:30 am
Do you know what the crime is ..................... do you know what day it is?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2020/may/12/you-know-what-the-is-trump-stumped-on-obamagate-details-video
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on May 13, 2020, 08:39:54 am
''Australian arm of group that wrote to Trump peddling bleach as coronavirus cure fined $150,000
Product from Genesis II ‘healing church’ poses serious health risks, Therapeutic Goods Administration says, but it remains for sale on church website''

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/may/13/healing-church-fined-150000-in-australia-over-selling-bleach-as-coronavirus-cure
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on May 13, 2020, 11:53:33 am
It appears the problems in care homes is widely spread

''US nursing homes seek legal immunity as Covid-19 spreads ‘like brushfire’
Healthcare organizations insist protections are essential for under-resourced facilities as horror stories enrage families''

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/13/us-nursing-homes-legal-immunity-coronavirus

Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on May 14, 2020, 12:20:36 am
Fauci has warned that there will be serious consequenses if the US lockdown is lifted too early.

This is a direct warning to trump saying if you do it it's on your head if it all turns to mud you can't come back to blame and fire me. At least there is someone with balls left.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on May 14, 2020, 12:42:39 am
A leading virologist in the USA is testifying to Congress shortly. His written statement has been released. In it he says, "Without clear planning...2020 will be the darkest winter in modern history."

That has chilled me to the bone.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on May 15, 2020, 03:33:18 am
This is more about the US government generally than trump, interesting if accurate

https://twitter.com/nick_kapur/status/1260645957651185665?s=20
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on May 15, 2020, 11:43:52 pm
''Donald Trump says America's coronavirus curve is flattening but a second wave is coming for rural communities''

A view of what's happening in small town America.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-16/coronavirus-second-wave-hits-rural-america/12251058

another lying f*ck with idiot supporters
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on May 18, 2020, 10:20:06 pm
In today's barrel-scraping, f**kwit claims to be taking the drug that he has a financial stake in, and which can make you blind or cause heart problems if taken improperly.
https://t.co/zxiNxlyfEs
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on May 18, 2020, 10:45:47 pm
More likely selling it again rather than taking it
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on May 18, 2020, 11:00:17 pm
Almost certainly. But sadly I think some desperate people are going to die as a result of this little endorsement.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on May 19, 2020, 12:03:11 am
Beyond belief. Truly beyond f**king belief.

How in the name of God does this man hold the office that Abraham Lincoln and FDR once hold?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on May 19, 2020, 12:16:13 am
Beyond belief. Truly beyond f**king belief.

How in the name of God does this man hold the office that Abraham Lincoln and FDR once hold?

Don't forget that there's been some monumentally shit Presidents in history as well as the good ones. I know which pile Trump's going into though.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on May 19, 2020, 12:24:30 am
'onto' Glyn
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on May 19, 2020, 01:24:29 am
Beyond belief. Truly beyond f**king belief.

How in the name of God does this man hold the office that Abraham Lincoln and FDR once hold?

Don't forget that there's been some monumentally shit Presidents in history as well as the good ones. I know which pile Trump's going into though.
True. But not many of them were odds-on favourites to win a second term after four years of being monumentally shite.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on May 19, 2020, 01:56:27 am
'onto' Glyn

No, I'd shove him as deep into a pile as I could. ;)
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on May 19, 2020, 10:17:04 am
Unfo
I can’t do links but a friend in Australia posted an article from DT in in People Magazine 1998.
He said if he were to run he’d run as a Republican as they’re the dumbest group of voters in the country. They believe anything on on Fox News. He could lie and they’d still eat it up. He said “I bet my numbers would be terrific”.
Telling them that and he still got elected. That was probably the last time  that he told the truth.


Unfortunately, you and your friend need to to some fact-checking before spreading real 'Fake News'.

https://apnews.com/afs:Content:5466940186
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: idler on May 19, 2020, 10:21:03 am
Thanks for that Glyn, now removed.
I did imagine that she was a safe source and the cutting did look very realistic.
I could also well imagine him making those comments.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Filo on May 19, 2020, 10:26:55 am
I see the idiot is now threatening permanent withdrawal of funding to WHO, I say if we get this vaccine we only sell to America at the highest price we can, not on the cheap, give him some of his own medicine
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on May 19, 2020, 10:34:05 am
Disinfectant?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: idler on May 19, 2020, 10:38:13 am
Hydroxychloroquine?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on May 19, 2020, 10:39:34 am
However he DID say, "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any voters".

So while he hasn't actually called Republican supporters "dumb", he has effectively said that they are as amoral and lacking in basic humanity as he is.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/03/14/if-trump-shot-someone-dead-fifth-avenue-many-supporters-would-call-his-murder-trial-biased/%3foutputType=amp
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on May 20, 2020, 10:57:29 am
Jesus fecking wept. The man has no shame on top of having no dignity.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52733220
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on May 21, 2020, 11:30:53 am
I know we are all anaesthetised to this moral black hole, but read this. All of it. This is the Leader of the Free World.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52748844

Those of you who support him because he baits the other side. Just ask yourselves which side you'd want your grandkids to believe you supported.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on May 21, 2020, 11:52:22 am
Obnoxious flatters him
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: scawsby steve on May 23, 2020, 08:22:51 pm
I know we are all anaesthetised to this moral black hole, but read this. All of it. This is the Leader of the Free World.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52748844

Those of you who support him because he baits the other side. Just ask yourselves which side you'd want your grandkids to believe you supported.

Totally agree with that BST. I certainly wouldn't want my grandkids to believe I supported a side led by someone who pervs over 14 year old girls.

It seems Sleepy Joe has now become Sleazy Joe.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: wilts rover on May 23, 2020, 09:14:36 pm
I know we are all anaesthetised to this moral black hole, but read this. All of it. This is the Leader of the Free World.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52748844

Those of you who support him because he baits the other side. Just ask yourselves which side you'd want your grandkids to believe you supported.

Totally agree with that BST. I certainly wouldn't want my grandkids to believe I supported a side led by someone who pervs over 14 year old girls.

It seems Sleepy Joe has now become Sleazy Joe.

"I’ve known Jeff (Epstein) for 15 years. Terrific guy,” he (Trump) told New York magazine in 2002. “He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side.”

Classy company you keep Steve

https://www.market**tch.com/story/party-planners-surprise-just-donald-trump-jeff-epstein-and-28-calendar-girls-2019-07-10
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on May 23, 2020, 09:22:02 pm
I know we are all anaesthetised to this moral black hole, but read this. All of it. This is the Leader of the Free World.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52748844

Those of you who support him because he baits the other side. Just ask yourselves which side you'd want your grandkids to believe you supported.

Totally agree with that BST. I certainly wouldn't want my grandkids to believe I supported a side led by someone who pervs over 14 year old girls.

It seems Sleepy Joe has now become Sleazy Joe.

And your evidence for that is?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: scawsby steve on May 23, 2020, 09:32:15 pm
I know we are all anaesthetised to this moral black hole, but read this. All of it. This is the Leader of the Free World.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52748844

Those of you who support him because he baits the other side. Just ask yourselves which side you'd want your grandkids to believe you supported.

Totally agree with that BST. I certainly wouldn't want my grandkids to believe I supported a side led by someone who pervs over 14 year old girls.

It seems Sleepy Joe has now become Sleazy Joe.

"I’ve known Jeff (Epstein) for 15 years. Terrific guy,” he (Trump) told New York magazine in 2002. “He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side.”

Classy company you keep Steve

https://www.market**tch.com/story/party-planners-surprise-just-donald-trump-jeff-epstein-and-28-calendar-girls-2019-07-10

What you're failing to understand Wilts is that there's a massive difference between young women and young girls. When kids are involved, it's a game changer.

Incidentally, when have I been in Trump's company, or even endorsed him? All I have said is that he'll win in November.

If he doesn't, I'll accept it, because that's what I do.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: wilts rover on May 23, 2020, 09:49:32 pm
Was that Jeff(rey) Epstein's defence at his trial for pedophilia?

As I said, classy company.

I still don't think there will be an election in November. I think if Trump is behind in the polls he will 'postpone' it. If there is it is heading for a low turnout - I will agree they are two very unappealing candidates.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: scawsby steve on May 23, 2020, 10:02:29 pm
I know we are all anaesthetised to this moral black hole, but read this. All of it. This is the Leader of the Free World.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52748844

Those of you who support him because he baits the other side. Just ask yourselves which side you'd want your grandkids to believe you supported.

Totally agree with that BST. I certainly wouldn't want my grandkids to believe I supported a side led by someone who pervs over 14 year old girls.

It seems Sleepy Joe has now become Sleazy Joe.

And your evidence for that is?

Of course there's no hard evidence, as it's Eva Murry's word against his, as it is with most sexual allegation cases. However, just remind yourself that this is the guy who quoted the mantra that "ALL women should always be believed". Did he actually mean all women except those that accuse him? Which incidentally now stands at 8.

Have you ever seen this guy on video in the company of young women and girls? It's enough to turn your stomach. I wouldn't want him near any of my granddaughters.

He makes Trump look like a Sunday School teacher. Which begs the question, why would you believe Stormy Daniels, but not Eva Murry? It wouldn't have anything to do with personal hatred would it?

 
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on May 23, 2020, 10:13:33 pm
SS.

You do realise that Biden's camo has released his engagement diary which shows he wasn't at the event where Murry claims he letched at her?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: scawsby steve on May 23, 2020, 10:40:39 pm
SS.

You do realise that Biden's camo has released his engagement diary which shows he wasn't at the event where Murry claims he letched at her?

Yes. The dates are now being disputed by both sides of the argument. It depends who you believe.

Have you seen any of those videos I remarked about yet? One of them is truly disgusting. Oh and there's still the other 7 allegations out there.

Watch this space.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on May 25, 2020, 12:36:02 pm
I see that moral black hole is taking himself even deeper into the cess pit.

Not content with using "fake news" as his insult, he's now ranting that one of his biggest critics in the media, Joe Scarborough, murdered an aide when he was a Congressman 20 years ago.

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1264346866780700675

Even if they had a string of Abraham Lincolns in line to be the next Presidents, it would still take decades to undo the damage this abomination is doing to the civic sphere. He's poisoned debate for a long, long time and he is doing it deliberately.
 
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: ravenrover on May 25, 2020, 01:35:55 pm
And the influence his behaviour seems to have this side of the pond, Boris was full on Trump bluster yesterday
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on May 25, 2020, 01:48:05 pm
Exactly RR.

Cummings on Saturday night: "We are not going to waste our time addressing questions from campaigning newspapers".

Straight out of Trump's playbook.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on May 25, 2020, 02:33:31 pm
Exactly RR.

Cummings on Saturday night: "We are not going to waste our time addressing questions from campaigning newspapers".

Straight out of Trump's playbook.

That might be a face-saving way out of this for DC and Boris - DC 'resigns' to go off to the US and help Trump's campaign.. :silly:
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Filo on May 25, 2020, 03:18:11 pm
Exactly RR.

Cummings on Saturday night: "We are not going to waste our time addressing questions from campaigning newspapers".

Straight out of Trump's playbook.

That might be a face-saving way out of this for DC and Boris - DC 'resigns' to go off to the US and help Trump's campaign.. :silly:

I’m not sure Trump needs any help f**king things up 😂😂😂😂
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on May 25, 2020, 03:36:09 pm
Exactly RR.

Cummings on Saturday night: "We are not going to waste our time addressing questions from campaigning newspapers".

Straight out of Trump's playbook.

That might be a face-saving way out of this for DC and Boris - DC 'resigns' to go off to the US and help Trump's campaign.. :silly:

I’m not sure Trump needs any help f**king things up 😂😂😂😂

And Dominic is certainly not the sort of Yes-man Donald likes to hire!
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on May 27, 2020, 02:32:25 am
Jesus wept, have you seen his latest line on Twitter?

"Transition to Greatness".

Like he's transubstantiating into the body of Christ.

150% proof batshit.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on May 27, 2020, 10:11:53 am
Jesus wept, have you seen his latest line on Twitter?

"Transition to Greatness".

Like he's transubstantiating into the body of Christ.

150% proof batshit.

Ah, but have you seen this..? :lol:

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-52815552

Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Donnywolf on May 27, 2020, 11:27:57 am
They soon forgot about pregnant chads - and a President elected with a huge mathmatical cloud hanging over him

Indeed Trump got less votes than Hillary Clinton but heigh ho - they too need a better Electoral system but nowt I / we can do about that.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on May 27, 2020, 11:41:24 am
Just like Bush got fewer votes than Gore.

I said a few days ago, the Republicans have won the most votes in only 1 of the last 7 Presidential elections. But they have won the Presidency 3 times.

That is a seriously f**ked up electoral system.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: IDM on May 27, 2020, 01:42:48 pm
If I remember correctly, they are actually voting for “elector’s” or similar name, who then make their choice in each state for the presidential candidates.  The electors follow the popular vote in each state but I don’t know if that is mandatory..

I read about this last time around, quite complex and I can’t remember all the details.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Ldr on May 27, 2020, 01:51:04 pm
IDM you are correct, the electoral college is what ultimately decides the presidency. It is rare but not unknown for a member to not follow the popular vote. The number of college members per state is distributed on a population basis. Therefore the highest population states such as California have more electoral college votes
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on May 27, 2020, 02:13:30 pm
Ldr

The problem is that it has all the worst features of our winner-takes-all constituency system, but amplified massively because of the size of the "constituencies" (states).

So there is a huge tendency to focus policy on a handful of swing states.

In November, Biden wins if he wins:

Florida + any one of Pennsylvania, Ohio or Michigan, or just any two of Pennsylvania, Ohio and Michigan.

It's inevitable that they focus on those places.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: IDM on May 29, 2020, 09:38:08 am
“When the looting starts, the shooting starts”

Or..

“We understand your anger, but looting won’t be tolerated”

Which one do you guess Trump tweeted yesterday.?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: IDM on May 29, 2020, 09:55:18 am
Wrong thread Sydders.!!
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on May 29, 2020, 06:31:12 pm
This is what happens in banana republics.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-52849358/minneapolis-unrest-cnn-reporter-arrested-live-on-air
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Filo on June 02, 2020, 08:19:23 am
Trump threatening to turn the Military on their own people 😳😳😳

That kind of stuff ended well in Syria didn’t it?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: IDM on June 02, 2020, 08:24:36 am
6 months before an election..
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: big fat yorkshire pudding on June 02, 2020, 09:13:28 am
Trump threatening to turn the Military on their own people 😳😳😳

That kind of stuff ended well in Syria didn’t it?

His messaging his wrong absolutely.  But it will play well with his followers who see rioting and shops being looted and think something should be done.  Sadly a minority are using it as an excuse for anarchy.  Sad.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on June 02, 2020, 09:26:28 am
Did you hear what he said last night?

"I am taking action to protect the rights of law-abiding Americans, including (and here he slowed down and emphasised every word) your Second Amendment rights."

That was deliberately encouraging the white supremacists to take guns onto the streets under the guise of protecting themselves. There is no ambiguity in what he was doing.

The man would burn the f**king world to secure his re-election.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Filo on June 02, 2020, 09:31:25 am
It were n’t that long ago he was encouraging this in Iran and telling Iran the World was watching, well, the world is still watching, I bet Putin is pissing himself as the West hits the self destruct button
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on June 02, 2020, 01:21:40 pm
Every time gun control measures are proposed in the US, the right loses their shit. They say they need their guns to protect themselves in case of the government turning on their citizens. Now we have the government trying to incite civil war, and the police and army being used to target and murder citizens. And those "patriots" are nowhere to be seen. Wonder why?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: ravenrover on June 02, 2020, 01:33:39 pm
i saw the report of his speech about sending the troops in to sort it out but what was the nonsense outside a church, was he holding up a bible? I couldn't hear what he was saying.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on June 02, 2020, 02:13:36 pm
i saw the report of his speech about sending the troops in to sort it out but what was the nonsense outside a church, was he holding up a bible? I couldn't hear what he was saying.

Trump holding a Bible!

And to think, there are folk so utterly stupid that they will be taken in by that.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: DonnyOsmond on June 02, 2020, 02:56:12 pm
i saw the report of his speech about sending the troops in to sort it out but what was the nonsense outside a church, was he holding up a bible? I couldn't hear what he was saying.

(https://pyxis.nymag.com/v1/imgs/565/5c8/5e4627443c3abec9eb35dfaa7cf1c3e01c-trump-with-bible-dc-protests.rsquare.w700.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on June 02, 2020, 03:34:02 pm
Every time gun control measures are proposed in the US, the right loses their shit. They say they need their guns to protect themselves in case of the government turning on their citizens. Now we have the government trying to incite civil war, and the police and army being used to target and murder citizens. And those "patriots" are nowhere to be seen. Wonder why?

I remember Trump - after a mass shooting a few mass shootings ago - saying everybody should have a gun in case someone runs amok with a gun. That would work out well if the looters were all armed, and vigilantes were out in force shooting anyone who looks at them a bit funny.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Colemans Left Hook on June 02, 2020, 04:09:48 pm
i saw the report of his speech about sending the troops in to sort it out but what was the nonsense outside a church, was he holding up a bible? I couldn't hear what he was saying.

(https://pyxis.nymag.com/v1/imgs/565/5c8/5e4627443c3abec9eb35dfaa7cf1c3e01c-trump-with-bible-dc-protests.rsquare.w700.jpg)

the only reason he is holding a bible is because he can see a "profit in it "  :suicide:

Trumps Bank Account <= $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: KeithMyath on June 02, 2020, 04:30:46 pm
The only reason he went for the photo op was so he could tear gas the peaceful protesters who he has now labeled as Anti Facist terrorists.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: ravenrover on June 02, 2020, 04:42:20 pm
 Aaah just seen a tweet from Trump jnr claiming his dad is a brave man to walk down the street outside the White House to this little church not the actions of bunker man he claims. It appears that the church was being used by local clergy as an emergency eye cleaning station after protesters had been tear gassed, it then appears that the riot police went in and cleared everybody away including the clergy, by force so that Trump could be escorted surrounded by security etc to stand for a photo opportunity. The man has no morals at all
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: idler on June 02, 2020, 06:00:14 pm
Aaah just seen a tweet from Trump jnr claiming his dad is a brave man to walk down the street outside the White House to this little church not the actions of bunker man he claims. It appears that the church was being used by local clergy as an emergency eye cleaning station after protesters had been tear gassed, it then appears that the riot police went in and cleared everybody away including the clergy, by force so that Trump could be escorted surrounded by security etc to stand for a photo opportunity. The man has no morals at all
I'm sure that he has as many morals as brain cells.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: ravenrover on June 02, 2020, 06:06:25 pm
And I think we know where he keeps what few brain cells he has!
Did I read from a valid source? that there have been numerous payoffs to under age children used for sexual gratification of The Donald?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: scawsby steve on June 02, 2020, 08:17:02 pm
And I think we know where he keeps what few brain cells he has!
Did I read from a valid source? that there have been numerous payoffs to under age children used for sexual gratification of The Donald?

Sorry Raven mate, there's no evidence whatsoever of that happening.

Between Trump and Biden, I know which one I'd prefer being stood next to my granddaughters, and it wouldn't be pervy old Joe.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Copps is Magic on June 02, 2020, 08:24:03 pm
Steve, really?

You'd prefer Trump stood next to your granddaughters.

Is this the same guy who said of Jeffrey Epstein;

"I’ve known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side"
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on June 02, 2020, 08:48:02 pm
Pointless Copps.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on June 02, 2020, 08:50:44 pm
And I think we know where he keeps what few brain cells he has!
Did I read from a valid source? that there have been numerous payoffs to under age children used for sexual gratification of The Donald?

Sorry Raven mate, there's no evidence whatsoever of that happening.

Between Trump and Biden, I know which one I'd prefer being stood next to my granddaughters, and it wouldn't be pervy old Joe.
Imagine saying you want your grandkids to stand next to a known sexual predator just to own the lefties on an internet forum. Get help.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: scawsby steve on June 02, 2020, 08:54:05 pm
Steve, really?

You'd prefer Trump stood next to your granddaughters.

Is this the same guy who said of Jeffrey Epstein;

"I’ve known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side"

Copps, there's a massive difference between young women and young girls. There's no evidence linking Trump to young girls.

Apart from the Eva Murry allegation against Biden, just google some of the videos showing him perving over young girls. Don't have anything to eat before you do though; it's enough to make you vomit.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on June 02, 2020, 08:55:16 pm
SS.

I suppose you never saw that video of Trump perving over his own daughter?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: scawsby steve on June 02, 2020, 08:59:30 pm
And I think we know where he keeps what few brain cells he has!
Did I read from a valid source? that there have been numerous payoffs to under age children used for sexual gratification of The Donald?

Sorry Raven mate, there's no evidence whatsoever of that happening.

Between Trump and Biden, I know which one I'd prefer being stood next to my granddaughters, and it wouldn't be pervy old Joe.
Imagine saying you want your grandkids to stand next to a known sexual predator just to own the lefties on an internet forum. Get help.

No, you get f*cking help if you can't argue and produce evidence.

Where is the evidence linking Trump sexually with children?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: DonnyOsmond on June 02, 2020, 09:01:46 pm
Steve, really?

You'd prefer Trump stood next to your granddaughters.

Is this the same guy who said of Jeffrey Epstein;

"I’ve known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side"

Copps, there's a massive difference between young women and young girls. There's no evidence linking Trump to young girls.

Apart from the Eva Murry allegation against Biden, just google some of the videos showing him perving over young girls. Don't have anything to eat before you do though; it's enough to make you vomit.

Trump was accused of raping a 13 year old 4 years ago.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: scawsby steve on June 02, 2020, 09:02:24 pm
SS.

I suppose you never saw that video of Trump perving over his own daughter?

That's pathetic BST. I honestly thought you were better than that.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: scawsby steve on June 02, 2020, 09:05:52 pm
Steve, really?

You'd prefer Trump stood next to your granddaughters.

Is this the same guy who said of Jeffrey Epstein;

"I’ve known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side"

Copps, there's a massive difference between young women and young girls. There's no evidence linking Trump to young girls.

Apart from the Eva Murry allegation against Biden, just google some of the videos showing him perving over young girls. Don't have anything to eat before you do though; it's enough to make you vomit.

Trump was accused of raping a 13 year old 4 years ago.

Accused by who? Evidence?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: DonnyOsmond on June 02, 2020, 09:12:57 pm
Steve, really?

You'd prefer Trump stood next to your granddaughters.

Is this the same guy who said of Jeffrey Epstein;

"I’ve known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side"

Copps, there's a massive difference between young women and young girls. There's no evidence linking Trump to young girls.

Apart from the Eva Murry allegation against Biden, just google some of the videos showing him perving over young girls. Don't have anything to eat before you do though; it's enough to make you vomit.

Trump was accused of raping a 13 year old 4 years ago.

Accused by who? Evidence?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.courthousenews.com/rape-allegations-refiled-against-trump/
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on June 02, 2020, 09:13:35 pm
SS.

I suppose you never saw that video of Trump perving over his own daughter?

That's pathetic BST. I honestly thought you were better than that.

It's his own words SS.

"She has a great body. If I weren't married and...y'know...her father."

Or the one where he was asked what they had in common that they liked and he replied "I was going to say 'sex' but I guess I shouldn't in her case."

Don't go accusing me of being "pathetic" for pointing out the man's (sic) own words.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Copps is Magic on June 02, 2020, 09:15:41 pm
Steve, really?

You'd prefer Trump stood next to your granddaughters.

Is this the same guy who said of Jeffrey Epstein;

"I’ve known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side"

Copps, there's a massive difference between young women and young girls. There's no evidence linking Trump to young girls.


Steve,

That quote from Trump appeared in a magazine in 2002. It was at that exact same time Epstein was trafficking minors in and out of his mansion(s) to be sexually abused. This was not a well-kept secret - to his neighbours, friends, or the police.

At the very least, if you are still adamant you would have your granddaughters stand next to Trump, there is something we must agree on. Because its true. In 2002, Trump glorified the most notoriuous, high-profile pedophile of this century. And they were friends.

I wouldn't want any of my family stood next to the orange man.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on June 02, 2020, 09:18:36 pm
It went to court and he settled. Court doc
linked below. He's a known sexual predator and this is one of several such cases (13, I believe).

Take a step back from trying to score points against strangers on the internet and try and think about what you're saying. You'd be happy for your grandkids to stand next to a know sexual predator who was at least aware of an international child trafficking ring run by his mate Epstein. Is it really that important to you to win an internet argument?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://cdn.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/Johnson_TrumpEpstein_Lawsuit.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjG6azx9uPpAhVhnVwKHXs5AeIQFjACegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw2A-P0GCUETmFTOtiarupfU
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: scawsby steve on June 02, 2020, 09:57:21 pm
Just to end this with a bit of a reminder as to the semantics of my initial post. I didn't say that I'd want or be happy for Trump to be stood next to my granddaughters. I said that between him and Biden, I'd prefer it not to be Biden; the reason being that I've actually seen what Biden's like when he's stood next to young girls.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on June 02, 2020, 10:29:40 pm
Just to end this with a bit of a reminder as to the semantics of my initial post. I didn't say that I'd want or be happy for Trump to be stood next to my granddaughters. I said that between him and Biden, I'd prefer it not to be Biden; the reason being that I've actually seen what Biden's like when he's stood next to young girls.

Now that others have produced the evidence you demanded, are you going to do the same?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: DonnyOsmond on June 02, 2020, 10:35:41 pm
Just to end this with a bit of a reminder as to the semantics of my initial post. I didn't say that I'd want or be happy for Trump to be stood next to my granddaughters. I said that between him and Biden, I'd prefer it not to be Biden; the reason being that I've actually seen what Biden's like when he's stood next to young girls.

And now you've found out the others a child rapist so hopefully you wouldn't want them stood near him either.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Ldr on June 03, 2020, 03:44:40 pm
SS.

I suppose you never saw that video of Trump perving over his own daughter?

That's pathetic BST. I honestly thought you were better than that.

It's his own words SS.

"She has a great body. If I weren't married and...y'know...her father."

Or the one where he was asked what they had in common that they liked and he replied "I was going to say 'sex' but I guess I shouldn't in her case."

Don't go accusing me of being "pathetic" for pointing out the man's (sic) own words.
[/quote
SS.

I suppose you never saw that video of Trump perving over his own daughter?

That's pathetic BST. I honestly thought you were better than that.

It's his own words SS.

"She has a great body. If I weren't married and...y'know...her father."

Or the one where he was asked what they had in common that they liked and he replied "I was going to say 'sex' but I guess I shouldn't in her case."

Don't go accusing me of being "pathetic" for pointing out the man's (sic) own words.

SS may have been mentioned before but the incident BST is referring to is in Michael Moores Fahrenheit 11/9 film
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on June 03, 2020, 04:12:59 pm
Ldr.

The first quote was from an interview with Rolling Stone in 2015.

The second was from a TV interview.

I've never seen any Michael Moore film, so I couldn't comment on what you say.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Ldr on June 03, 2020, 04:33:12 pm
It shows the tv interview BST, very very cringeworthy
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: foxbat on June 03, 2020, 04:38:38 pm
A pandemic kills 100,000 Americans. Trump does nothing.

A depression puts 40,000,000 out of work. Trump does nothing.

Armed white nationalists shut down state legislatures. Trump does nothing.

Black people march for their freedom.

Trump launches a military occupation.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Ldr on June 03, 2020, 04:40:05 pm
A pandemic kills 100,000 Americans. Trump does nothing.

A depression puts 40,000,000 out of work. Trump does nothing.

Armed white nationalists shut down state legislatures. Trump does nothing.

Black people march for their freedom.

Trump launches a military occupation.

There are no words for Trumps actions FB, hes a lunatic
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on June 03, 2020, 08:38:05 pm
This bloke did a Twitter experiment.

Every time Trump tweets, he takes the text word for word and repeats it on his own account.

Not re-tweets. He tweets the text as if it were his own.

68 hours after he started, he got suspended by Twitter for promoting violence.

https://mobile.twitter.com/BizarreLazar/status/1267570556880076801

You Trump supporters. Come on down and give us your two pennorth on this.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: idler on June 03, 2020, 08:41:17 pm
The frightening thing about Trump is that nobody knows just how far he'll go to stay in power. One thing's for sure, once he's out they will be queueing up to take him down.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Filo on June 03, 2020, 08:43:44 pm
The frightening thing about Trump is that nobody knows just how far he'll go to stay in power. One thing's for sure, once he's out they will be queueing up to take him down.

If he loses the election he will be in jail this time next year
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on June 03, 2020, 08:45:09 pm
The frightening thing about Trump is that nobody knows just how far he'll go to stay in power. One thing's for sure, once he's out they will be queueing up to take him down.

100%

If the polls stay this strongly against him throughout the summer, I hope to f**king God there's a big bloke with morals stood close to him every time he's near the nuclear football.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on June 03, 2020, 10:29:09 pm
The frightening thing about Trump is that nobody knows just how far he'll go to stay in power. One thing's for sure, once he's out they will be queueing up to take him down.

100%

If the polls stay this strongly against him throughout the summer, I hope to f**king God there's a big bloke with morals stood close to him every time he's near the nuclear football.

Trump's problem is that because of the virus, he can't do what every other US president usually does when they start getting stick at home: invade or bomb another country. It looks like he's trying to look like a war leader using a domestic issue instead!
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Dutch Uncle on June 04, 2020, 01:12:32 pm
The frightening thing about Trump is that nobody knows just how far he'll go to stay in power. One thing's for sure, once he's out they will be queueing up to take him down.

100%

If the polls stay this strongly against him throughout the summer, I hope to f**king God there's a big bloke with morals stood close to him every time he's near the nuclear football.

Trump's problem is that because of the virus, he can't do what every other US president usually does when they start getting stick at home: invade or bomb another country. It looks like he's trying to look like a war leader using a domestic issue instead!

I agree with your last bit there Glyn, but I still wouldn't count out Trump starting a war with Iran if he thinks his current strategy is not producing the results he wants. Incredibly dangerous times.

And by the way these protests he is stoking won't exactly improve the COVID situation either.

At least Mattis has spoken out, and hopefully a few more will follow.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on June 04, 2020, 02:06:27 pm
The frightening thing about Trump is that nobody knows just how far he'll go to stay in power. One thing's for sure, once he's out they will be queueing up to take him down.

100%

If the polls stay this strongly against him throughout the summer, I hope to f**king God there's a big bloke with morals stood close to him every time he's near the nuclear football.

Trump's problem is that because of the virus, he can't do what every other US president usually does when they start getting stick at home: invade or bomb another country. It looks like he's trying to look like a war leader using a domestic issue instead!

I agree with your last bit there Glyn, but I still wouldn't count out Trump starting a war with Iran if he thinks his current strategy is not producing the results he wants. Incredibly dangerous times.

And by the way these protests he is stoking won't exactly improve the COVID situation either.

At least Mattis has spoken out, and hopefully a few more will follow.

More are doing Dutch.

This, from the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff is both inspiring (in that the grown ups are starting to stand up to this monster) and terrifying (in that it even has to be said).

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwi0i-emnOjpAhVsREEAHRnfA2kQFjAAegQIBRAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.health.mil%2FReference-Center%2FPublications%2F2020%2F06%2F02%2FCJCS-Memo-to-Joint-Force-Support-to-Civil-Authorities&usg=AOvVaw3wOThFaQcySF1U8274exba

I don't recall anything like this in my lifetime and I do wonder how close we are to the culture war turning into a genuine civil war, when the Chair of the JCS feels the need to remind senior officers of what shouldn't ever need to be said.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on June 04, 2020, 02:13:29 pm
The frightening thing about Trump is that nobody knows just how far he'll go to stay in power. One thing's for sure, once he's out they will be queueing up to take him down.

100%

If the polls stay this strongly against him throughout the summer, I hope to f**king God there's a big bloke with morals stood close to him every time he's near the nuclear football.

Trump's problem is that because of the virus, he can't do what every other US president usually does when they start getting stick at home: invade or bomb another country. It looks like he's trying to look like a war leader using a domestic issue instead!

I agree with your last bit there Glyn, but I still wouldn't count out Trump starting a war with Iran if he thinks his current strategy is not producing the results he wants. Incredibly dangerous times.

And by the way these protests he is stoking won't exactly improve the COVID situation either.

At least Mattis has spoken out, and hopefully a few more will follow.

More are doing Dutch.

This, for the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff is both inspiring (in that the grown ups are starting to stand up to this monster) and terrifying (in that it even has to be said).

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwi0i-emnOjpAhVsREEAHRnfA2kQFjAAegQIBRAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.health.mil%2FReference-Center%2FPublications%2F2020%2F06%2F02%2FCJCS-Memo-to-Joint-Force-Support-to-Civil-Authorities&usg=AOvVaw3wOThFaQcySF1U8274exba

I don't recall anything like this in my lifetime and I do wonder how close we are to the culture war turning into a genuine civil war, when the Chair of the JCS feels the need to remind senior officers of what shouldn't ever need to be said.

All these former officials that Trump demeans and insults when they say something awkward...if they're such glaringly obvious horrible, useless people, how come he picked and hired them in the first place? :silly:
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BigH on June 04, 2020, 02:14:59 pm
The frightening thing about Trump is that nobody knows just how far he'll go to stay in power. One thing's for sure, once he's out they will be queueing up to take him down.

100%

If the polls stay this strongly against him throughout the summer, I hope to f**king God there's a big bloke with morals stood close to him every time he's near the nuclear football.

Trump's problem is that because of the virus, he can't do what every other US president usually does when they start getting stick at home: invade or bomb another country. It looks like he's trying to look like a war leader using a domestic issue instead!

I agree with your last bit there Glyn, but I still wouldn't count out Trump starting a war with Iran if he thinks his current strategy is not producing the results he wants. Incredibly dangerous times.

And by the way these protests he is stoking won't exactly improve the COVID situation either.

At least Mattis has spoken out, and hopefully a few more will follow.
There's always been the fear that he would pull down the temple if he didn't get his own way.

Starting to look like that's the way it's going.

Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on June 04, 2020, 02:23:15 pm
The frightening thing about Trump is that nobody knows just how far he'll go to stay in power. One thing's for sure, once he's out they will be queueing up to take him down.

100%

If the polls stay this strongly against him throughout the summer, I hope to f**king God there's a big bloke with morals stood close to him every time he's near the nuclear football.

Trump's problem is that because of the virus, he can't do what every other US president usually does when they start getting stick at home: invade or bomb another country. It looks like he's trying to look like a war leader using a domestic issue instead!

I agree with your last bit there Glyn, but I still wouldn't count out Trump starting a war with Iran if he thinks his current strategy is not producing the results he wants. Incredibly dangerous times.

And by the way these protests he is stoking won't exactly improve the COVID situation either.

At least Mattis has spoken out, and hopefully a few more will follow.
There's always been the fear that he would pull down the temple if he didn't get his own way.

Starting to look like that's the way it's going.



Scorched Earth? I wouldn't put it past him, and I bet the first thing into the flames are his tax returns.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on June 04, 2020, 02:33:38 pm
That CJCS memo reminds me of something I read from a senior Republican in 2016. It was something to the effect of there was no danger electing Trump, because if he ever went too far over the edge, the military would refuse to carry out his orders.

Which always seemed an odd political stance. "You're safe electing our maniac, because if he ever decides to end the world, we will have a military coup."
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on June 09, 2020, 11:17:35 pm
That 75 year old man who was shoved over by police and left on the pavement unconscious with blood pouring out of his head.

This is how the Leader of the Free World responds.

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1270333484528214018
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on June 10, 2020, 12:26:01 am
All quiet on the KKK member who ploughed his car into a crowd of protestors and shot someone though. Of course.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on June 10, 2020, 11:53:18 am
You know how democracy ends.

Would be autocrats don't go on TV and announce that democracy has ended. They keep the trappings of the democratic process but they hollow it out and make it useless.

Very often they start by making it tough for their opponents to vote.

This is what happened in poor regions of Georgia yesterday.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1228541

Dress rehearsal for this November.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: idler on June 10, 2020, 12:01:20 pm
Just wait for Trump to shout "Fake News" and his gullible supporters will swallow it wholesale.
The USA system gets more polluted each time that there is a vote. Nothing seems too low to achieve the desired result for certain politicians.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Ldr on June 10, 2020, 12:15:32 pm
Pair of you would really enjoy Fahrenheit 9/11 and 11/9 this is nothing new
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: idler on June 10, 2020, 01:12:03 pm
I think my copy got burned.😉
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on June 16, 2020, 10:01:33 am
Trump's niece to release expose' on June 28 and said she is the source of tax details to the New Yorks Times exposing his claims of being a business genious as fraud.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/15/books/mary-trump-book.html?algo=top_conversion&fellback=false&imp_id=946910749&action=click&module=Most%20Popular&pgtype=Homepage
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on June 16, 2020, 10:46:29 pm
This is a worrying read.

https://theintercept.com/2020/06/10/boogaloo-boys-george-floyd-protests/

Steve Bannon has always wanted a societal breakdown so that society can be reconstructed how he would like it. This feels like another step in that direction.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on June 16, 2020, 10:55:09 pm
It's been coming for a while, BST. Have you read about Foundations of Geopolitics before? It's, for lack of a better word, a manifesto written by a Russian strategist in 1997. For anyone who hasn't heard of it, check out the Content section on this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics

A couple of choice quotes here;
"Russia should use its special services within the borders of the United States to fuel instability and separatism, for instance, provoke "Afro-American racists". Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics"."

And, just for good measure;
"The United Kingdom, depicted as an "extraterritorial floating base of the U.S.", should be cut off from Europe."

There's a lot more to it, and if you didn't know any better, you'd say it was a history of the last 25 years - but no, it's from the 90s. Bannon is just another useful idiot.


Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on June 17, 2020, 01:02:36 am
I'd never heard of that MM. That is truly fascinating. As you say, it sounds like a retrospective on the past 2 decades. I'd bet my mortgage to a pinch of shite that Putin has read and absorbed every page of that.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on June 17, 2020, 10:39:09 pm
Astonishingly we probably haven't heard the worst about this man yet

''Trump was willing to halt criminal investigations as 'favor' to dictators, Bolton book says
Trump pleaded with China’s Xi to help re-election effort
President urged Xi to build concentration camps for Muslims''

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/17/john-bolton-book-trump-china-accusations-dictators
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on June 18, 2020, 12:14:44 am
Worth noting that John Bolton was THE most extreme right wing member of Dubya's administration. And the Republican party has gone so far to the right that he's now sounding like a shocked realist at what they have let Trump get away with.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on June 18, 2020, 12:39:48 am
it's hardly credible that Bolton is now saying yes we let him get away with this .... I stood by and watched while this happened ...... instead of having trump face a firing squad he's more concerned with building on what must be an already substantial pile for his descendents, ain't America great?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on June 18, 2020, 10:37:04 am
Wow.
This from Joe Scarborough, ex-Reoublican congressman, now news analysis anchor.

https://mobile.twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1273375629631774723

Needs to be said. Facebook has become probably THE biggest threat to democracy.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on June 18, 2020, 11:58:21 pm
Did you ever think you'd live to see the day that an American President would use Nazi iconography to attack American citizens?

Well it's happened.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53098439
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Ldr on June 19, 2020, 09:03:43 am
Interesting, so Antifa are using Nazi iconography? From the same article

"The inverted red triangle is a symbol used by antifa, so it was included in an ad about antifa," Tim Murtaugh, a spokesman for the Trump campaign, said in a statement.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on June 19, 2020, 11:47:56 am
From a Trump campaign spokesman from the same issue actually.

The Trump campaign showed this image last night as an example of this.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EazlITeX0AMZifa.jpg)

A Google search for that image shows no results before yesterday.

Equally, I've Googled "Antifa red triangle" and found no examples.

I'm not saying it's untrue, but if so, it's odd for the Trump campaign to choose to publicise an obscure Antifa symbol. I consider myself pretty well informed politically, but I didn't see that image and think "Oh yeah. That's the Antifa symbol".
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Ldr on June 19, 2020, 12:43:06 pm
I've certainly never seen it before
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on June 19, 2020, 12:43:53 pm
I had a look too, on some of the photos there's an 'A' on a banner with a red ground which sort of looks like a red triangle but nothing like the one trump is using of course.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Not Now Kato on June 28, 2020, 05:14:22 pm
Trump - unbelievable given the BLM situation in the US....
 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53212685
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on June 28, 2020, 10:33:18 pm
That's a very dangerous combination being thick and racist.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on June 28, 2020, 10:36:56 pm
That's a very dangerous combination being thick and racist.

I think the intelligent racist is more dangerous. The thick ones don't even know they're racists.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on June 28, 2020, 10:55:38 pm
Good point Glyn
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on June 30, 2020, 04:24:54 pm
Four months from the election of course, but the polls are looking very bad for Trump.

He's well behind in all the key swing states (Florida, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan) that Biden needs to win, and even in some usually string Republican states like Arizona and North Carolina.


Latest one even has him behind in Missouri, which twice voted Republican against Obama's landslides, and voted 57-38 for Trump over Clinton in 2016.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on July 01, 2020, 08:07:50 pm
And this is why it's pretty well impossible to see Trump winning in November. He's destroyed his own chances by tipping the country into a frightening second wave that will have devastating economic consequences.

https://mobile.twitter.com/paulkrugman/status/1278367822805118979

Standby now for him trying to get the election cancelled.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on July 01, 2020, 11:00:30 pm
War anyone? it won't be China he's a pub bully so will only pick a country without an army.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: tyke1962 on July 02, 2020, 12:08:47 am
The US have had a good look at his administration now , this is a very different thing to challenging for the White House and giving him the opportunity .

He's got his nut jack supporters but there's enough conservative Republicans who've had enough of the shyte show and embarrassment .

He's a gonna .
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on July 02, 2020, 12:19:07 am
I'm expecting he's going to lose by a historic margin in November. Arizona is in play and the Republicans have only lost that state twice since WWII. That is how badly he has f**ked up.

For all Biden's faults, the world desperately needs Trump to be cast out. And everyone who truly believes in democracy should celebrate that. There are things that are way more important than your side winning.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on July 02, 2020, 01:03:58 am
And this is why they HAVE to lose. If there's any hope.

https://mobile.twitter.com/IChotiner/status/1278098449238384640

That's a Republican activist encouraging Republican supporters to get outraged at other people doing something that will save other people's lives.


How far down into the pit are these f**kers?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Not Now Kato on July 02, 2020, 04:49:10 pm
Free to read article in the FT - Dirty money: Trump and the Kazakh connection
 
https://www.ft.com/content/33285dfa-9231-11e6-8df8-d3778b55a923
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on July 03, 2020, 12:33:00 am
So who's taking bets on Ghislaine Maxwell being found dead in her cell and the CCTV cameras having a mysterious fault?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on July 03, 2020, 10:26:34 am
Andrew is sweating under pressure apparently :)
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on July 08, 2020, 07:15:48 pm
Astonishing though it may seem, Trump may not actually be the worst choice for President this Autumn.

Check out Kanye West.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/randalllane/2020/07/08/kanye-west-says-hes-done-with-trump-opens-up-about-white-house-bid-damaging-biden-and-everything-in-between/?utm_source=TWITTER&utm_medium=social&utm_content=3475373719&utm_campaign=sprinklrForbesMainTwitter#413a4ff747aa

He's gonna run America like Wakanda because he's the most powerful person in the world. Apart from all them who have been taken over by alien superpowers.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: IDM on July 08, 2020, 07:25:32 pm
Kanye West.?  He’s a gay fish isn’t he.?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on July 08, 2020, 07:54:30 pm
Batshit, but almost certainly a plant to try and split the Biden vote.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Superspy on July 08, 2020, 08:50:07 pm
I honestly never thought I'd find somebody with a greater ability than Trump at speaking without actually saying anything...enter Kanye West. Absolutely f**king tapped.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: scawsby steve on July 08, 2020, 10:08:01 pm
He did me when, at Glastonbury, he announced that he was a bigger star than Elvis.

He must have meant Costello.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: tyke1962 on July 08, 2020, 11:30:44 pm
This is absolutely shocking .


https://youtu.be/ZLGbBYrqpro
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on July 09, 2020, 12:01:18 am
Not at all surprising Tyke. Or new.

Google "North Carolina Gerrymandering" for an eye opener.

The state legislature is Republican led and for years they have been re-drawing the Congressional boundaries in a way that concentrates big majorities of (often black) Democrat supporters in a few districts and spreads the republican supporters out more evenly. So there are Republican majorities of 5-15% in most electoral districts and Democratic majorities of 40-50% in a few. That has the effect of massively disproportionately giving seats in Congress to the Republicans, compared to their vote share across the whole state.

So, in the 2018 House of Representatives elections, North Carolina had 12 seats up for election. The state-wide vote was:

Rep: 50.4%
Dem 48.4%

You might expect the seats to be split 6-6, or maybe 7-5, right?

The number of seats won was:
Rep: 9
Dem: 3

In the 3 that the Dems won, the results were:

Rep  - Dem
30% - 70%
24% - 72%
27% - 73%

In the 9 that the Reps won it was:
Rep  - Dem
51% - 46%
57% - 43%
57% - 43%
56% - 43%
55% - 45%
59% - 41%
59% - 39%
52% - 46%
and one walkover.

You have to realise that the republican party ave up even paying lip-service to the principles of democracy several decades ago. This is the sort of thing you expect in a banana republic. Getting a Trump as leader was inevitable for a party that lost its soul a long, long time ago.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Donnywolf on July 09, 2020, 05:42:59 am
.... and another reason they TOO should switch to PR of some sort do you think ?

I reckon we need it BT who or rather how the hell do we reach that goal. Like the EU we would need a Referendum I suspect and at the moment there is no chance Johnson would go for one (or PR either) because he knows what will probably happen

Labour have been beneficiaries of FPTP in the past as one of the Big 2 so they have never seemed keen either

(Ignore me - Trump and Democracy - but it started loosely about him
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on July 09, 2020, 11:20:02 am
This is absolutely shocking .


https://youtu.be/ZLGbBYrqpro

I've not seen him before. What a fantastic communicator.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Superspy on July 09, 2020, 06:12:59 pm
This is absolutely shocking .


https://youtu.be/ZLGbBYrqpro

I've not seen him before. What a fantastic communicator.

Completely agree. Might take some time to watch some more of his stuff later. Tyke, thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: i_ateallthepies on July 09, 2020, 06:22:33 pm
This is absolutely shocking .


https://youtu.be/ZLGbBYrqpro

I've not seen him before. What a fantastic communicator.

Totally agree, Glynn.  BUT... confessional time... in a thread about Trump and then seeing this rugged looking guy in a baseball cap, my immediate thought was, 'here goes, hardcore Trump supporter' and even as I had the thought and before he even spoke I was reminding myself I shouldn't judge the book by it's cover.  And yes, a superb communicator.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on July 11, 2020, 11:35:46 am
In case you ever wondered if Trump is actually a fascist. Some indicators from the man who wrote "How Facism Works". Here are the steps he's identified as to how Facism takes over. One step at a time. With the gullible nodding to each one and the idle "meh"-ing.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on July 11, 2020, 11:36:33 am
1. https://mobile.twitter.com/jasonintrator/status/1023955863164399616

Make America Great Again.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on July 11, 2020, 11:38:07 am
2. https://mobile.twitter.com/jasonintrator/status/1024985638909734912

You undermine the concept of objective truth by lying repeatedly and accusing everyone else of lying repeatedly.

Fake News.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on July 11, 2020, 11:39:48 am
3. https://mobile.twitter.com/jasonintrator/status/1026431734718582784

Universities are an independent bulwark of objective truth. So they must be controlled.

This. Yesterday.
https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1281616586273468416
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on July 11, 2020, 11:42:09 am
You can see the rest here... Fill in the blanks yourselves. It's not hard.

https://mobile.twitter.com/i/events/856607127003029504
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on July 11, 2020, 11:43:59 am
His total disregard for convention, pardoning Stone the guy is a meglomaniac.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on July 11, 2020, 11:59:32 pm
Good news amongst the gloom

''Will Republicans ditch Trump to save the Senate as support nosedives?''

''Biden leads Trump by 52% to 40% in a Guardian/Opinium Research poll conducted in late June. Numerous other polls agree the Democrat has a double-digit lead and, crucially, put him ahead in six battleground states. Two in three people now disapprove of Trump’s handling of the pandemic, according to an ABC News/Ipsos poll, with the percentage of Republicans who approve sinking from 90% in mid-June to 78% now''

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jul/11/donald-trump-republicans-election-senate-biden
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on July 13, 2020, 10:42:35 pm
''‘Tsunami of untruths’: Trump has made 20,000 false or misleading claims'

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jul/13/donald-trump-20000-false-or-misleading-claims
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on July 18, 2020, 07:55:04 am
the dangerous goat that keeps on giving

''Trump clashes with Fox News interviewer over false claim about Biden
Chris Wallace contradicts Trump over Biden’s views on policing
President requests document that fails to vindicate him

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jul/17/donald-trump-fox-news-interview-chris-wallace-joe-biden
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on July 21, 2020, 12:58:31 am
When trump demands to see the US figures on the virus and decllares them to be number 1 they are in fact No 1 they're at the top of the worldometer table!

https://www.theguardian.com/global/commentisfree/2020/jul/20/trump-interview-fox-news-election-polls-chances-melting-away
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Superspy on July 21, 2020, 01:45:07 pm
Enjoyed that article, thanks for sharing, haha.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on July 21, 2020, 02:11:06 pm
When trump demands to see the US figures on the virus and decllares them to be number 1 they are in fact No 1 they're at the top of the worldometer table!

https://www.theguardian.com/global/commentisfree/2020/jul/20/trump-interview-fox-news-election-polls-chances-melting-away

Jesus wept! That bit in the video where he says "I heard we had the lowest mortality rate from the virus in the world. Get me the figures."

(Aide passes him the figures)

Trump looks at the figures, waves them aside and then mumbles (once he gets the sheet the right way up) "No. 1 low mortality rate."

The USA has the tenth highest mortality rate in the world and two of the ones above them are Andorra and San Marino...

Just like our Government, utter contempt for truth and utter contempt for the intellect of their supporters. But, then again, if you see that behaviour and still don't condemn it, maybe you deserve to be treated with utter contempt.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: ravenrover on July 21, 2020, 04:55:24 pm
Not to mention "it is what it is" when talking about the number of deaths, but it will all go away in the end and he'll be right he says
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on July 27, 2020, 12:53:39 pm
American carnage on the way.

On Friday, the increased unemployment benefit expires. It's going back down to $150/week, which is way lower than anyone can live on.

Republicans are justifying this because they reckon the higher benefits are stopping people finding jobs.

There are 15million+ on the dole. The virus is still ripping through most of the country. And the Right says "Go to work or starve."

Just when you thought they had reached the very bottom of their pit of greed and callousness.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Donnywolf on July 27, 2020, 04:40:24 pm


Just like our Government, utter contempt for truth and utter contempt for the intellect of their supporters. But, then again, if you see that behaviour and still don't condemn it, maybe you deserve to be treated with utter contempt.


The trouble is with that is there are doubtless 57% of the electorate who voted against the "sitting Party" who are absolutely seething (as I am) watching liar Johnson getting away with porkies so outrageous they literally ARE untrue and yet can do nothing about it

Eminent people take to Social media by the hour - they appear on Telly Radio and all sorts of outlets to add voice after voice of dissent. This place is littered with dissenters as are other Forums I read and what happens ? Nowt What can they / we do ? Nothing other that shut up which they to their credit will not do

Its more frustrating than almost anything I have ever lived through. Thatcher eventually went too far with the Poll Tax and the public rose but seriously what is todays equivalent that would generate or precipitate such an civil uprising - because given the stuff Liar Johnson has got away with so far I see nothing in that category coming over the hill any time soon that wont be similarly ignored
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on July 27, 2020, 06:39:51 pm


Just like our Government, utter contempt for truth and utter contempt for the intellect of their supporters. But, then again, if you see that behaviour and still don't condemn it, maybe you deserve to be treated with utter contempt.


The trouble is with that is there are doubtless 57% of the electorate who voted against the "sitting Party" who are absolutely seething (as I am) watching liar Johnson getting away with porkies so outrageous they literally ARE untrue and yet can do nothing about it

Eminent people take to Social media by the hour - they appear on Telly Radio and all sorts of outlets to add voice after voice of dissent. This place is littered with dissenters as are other Forums I read and what happens ? Nowt What can they / we do ? Nothing other that shut up which they to their credit will not do

Its more frustrating than almost anything I have ever lived through. Thatcher eventually went too far with the Poll Tax and the public rose but seriously what is todays equivalent that would generate or precipitate such an civil uprising - because given the stuff Liar Johnson has got away with so far I see nothing in that category coming over the hill any time soon that wont be similarly ignored

1st January 2021 is coming up fast.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Donnywolf on July 28, 2020, 07:28:30 am
Do you envisage a Poll Tax type uprising / backlash after that date.

It still looks to me that 52% of people (who voted in Referendum) voted Leave and 48 % voted Remain so there is a hard core (how big now would call for speculation) still of Leave voters

The GE was different but under our antiquated FPTP system there are potentially 43% of people who were happy to let Liar Johnson in as PM and his Party as the Government. 57% did not want LJ and his Party in charge and perhaps that rump of the Electorate - already anti Tory - could be the catalyst for genuine dissent ?

I still cant see where any great public outcry will come from though - they have the media onside - they can brief total crap itself proven lies and still not be held accountable. I am totally frustrated by their ability to be where the truth isnt (stolen quote re Geoff Boycott) and could stand it living under them if they just stopped lying / perverting the truth but I fear it is here to stay
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Not Now Kato on July 28, 2020, 10:52:24 pm
The friends of Boris Johnson....
 
https://brexituncovered.blogspot.com/2020/07/the-various-friends-of-sergei-nalobin.html
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on July 28, 2020, 11:24:02 pm
Watching a doco series about Putin it's hard to believe how this lot sold their arses to him, especially as they must have seen him dispose of those that don't play the game.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: River Don on July 29, 2020, 12:10:43 am
Astonishing though it may seem, Trump may not actually be the worst choice for President this Autumn.

Check out Kanye West.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/randalllane/2020/07/08/kanye-west-says-hes-done-with-trump-opens-up-about-white-house-bid-damaging-biden-and-everything-in-between/?utm_source=TWITTER&utm_medium=social&utm_content=3475373719&utm_campaign=sprinklrForbesMainTwitter#413a4ff747aa

He's gonna run America like Wakanda because he's the most powerful person in the world. Apart from all them who have been taken over by alien superpowers.

Kanye is probably out to sell his new album first and formost. And he probably hopes to split the democrat vote, Christ knows what goes on in his bipolar mind but he does support Trump.

I will admit to being a fan of his early music, I don't think there are any producers who are as inventive and prolific in hiphop today as he is. I wonder if they did manage to stabilise him on whatever drugs, if the creativity would be the same.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on July 29, 2020, 01:14:20 am
No correlation between artistic ability and political rationality RD.

Wagner produced THE most spellbinding music of all time. And espoused political ideas that led directly to Auschwitz.

Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: River Don on July 29, 2020, 08:23:08 am
It's any kind of rationality with Kanye. Sadly things do seem to be getting worse since his momma died.

This is a track by Talib Kwali, a rapper with a social conscience, from a decade ago. Kanye did all the heavy lifting with the production. It's pretty cool.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=UVtpXvzzXiA

Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on July 29, 2020, 01:24:03 pm
He's undoubtedly a talent. You could even argue he's a legit genius. Apparently he's now refusing to take his bipolar medication though, as he feels it limits his creativity. I also get the impression he has people around him who are encouraging that sort of behaviour to generate press.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on July 29, 2020, 11:15:52 pm
It often happens with those with bi-polar problems when they are in a good period they think they don't need to take the meds any more MM and the inevitable happens.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: ravenrover on July 30, 2020, 05:54:25 pm
No more needs saying , it has started
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on July 30, 2020, 06:32:39 pm
So he's admitting he's such a shit President he can't even run a simple election properly. Congress won't wear it.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on July 30, 2020, 07:19:27 pm
Who could have predicted Trump would want to cancel the election?

https://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=276596.msg973772#msg973772
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on August 04, 2020, 12:50:46 pm
Jesus wept. Speechless.

https://mobile.twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1290549715591979011

To think there are still 40% of Americans who will vote for this man in November.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on August 04, 2020, 01:00:51 pm
Those blithe lies about deaths coming down in Arizona, Florida and Texas.

They MAY just have plateaued in Arizona. There's no sign whatsoever of them coming down in Texas and Florida, where the daily death rates went up 500% over July.

Government by lying when you are in a corner. About objective truth. Appalling that you can do this and no pay a penalty among your supporters.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on August 04, 2020, 01:02:44 pm
And then this.

https://mobile.twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1290557340278808578
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: idler on August 04, 2020, 02:10:22 pm
It's like a badly written farce. How can anybody vote for him?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on August 18, 2020, 10:34:30 pm
Interesting reading

''US Senate report goes beyond Mueller to lay bare Trump campaign's Russia links
Bipartisan intelligence panel says that Russian who worked on Trump’s 2016 bid was career spy, amid a stunning range of contacts''

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/18/donald-trump-us-senate-report-russia-campaign
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on August 23, 2020, 11:16:06 am
Just a reminder for anyone who still thinks Trump isn't a banana republic megalomaniac.

https://mobile.twitter.com/kenklippenstein/status/1297316972204630016
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on August 23, 2020, 01:14:23 pm
Who the f**k even is Tiffany Trump!?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: tyke1962 on August 27, 2020, 08:58:59 pm
From the barnsley board , thought you'd find it interesting .



http://barnsleyfc.org.uk/threads/how-trump-happened-from-someone-who-lived-with-his-base.294668/
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: wilts rover on August 27, 2020, 09:38:12 pm
Good read that Tyke. It doesn't explain Trump winning Michigan (where one side of the fufure Mrs Wilts Rover's family hail from) but I am sure it's a true reflection of live there for that poster.

Although of course there are people like that everywhere, as I said to the future Mrs Wilts Rover one time when we were watching some prats being stupid and annoying passers-by on Bristol Harbourside.

'Yes' she said 'but in America they let people like that have guns'.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on August 27, 2020, 10:40:39 pm
An interesting read. Quite sobering to read that, then to open Twitter and see Tucker Carlson openly defending the white supremacist who murdered two people with an assault rifle in Kenosha. https://twitter.com/bad_takes/status/1298774196026322946?s=20

That's the biggest personality on the biggest news network in America justifying murder because it was done by one of his fans. Is it any wonder the country is so f**ked?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: tyke1962 on August 27, 2020, 11:04:12 pm
Good read that Tyke. It doesn't explain Trump winning Michigan (where one side of the fufure Mrs Wilts Rover's family hail from) but I am sure it's a true reflection of live there for that poster.

Although of course there are people like that everywhere, as I said to the future Mrs Wilts Rover one time when we were watching some prats being stupid and annoying passers-by on Bristol Harbourside.

'Yes' she said 'but in America they let people like that have guns'.

It's extremely difficult for me to understand what the poster has encountered whilst living and working in the deep south .

I was brought up the other way , my old man was a staunch trade union man whose principles weren't for sale and he was even getting arrested at Wapping in the 80's at an age when he probably shouldn't have .

It's inconceivable to me that I could ever vote for Donald Trump , the Republicans , Tories or anyone on that side of the political divide .

You could make an argument that my upbringing is a form of thought control but working class history tells you that the side that was probably chosen for me is the right side , I've seen very little in adulthood that's made me question it .

If find it totally bewildering that the colour of an ex Democrats President skin would lead to Donald Trump .

A black Tory PM wouldn't matter a jot to me because he's a Tory not a black man , what difference does it make what colour is skin is , its blue to me , which fits all of em .

I suppose a similar thing in this country to the deep south in the US  could be pointed at us with royalty and that privilege born from a bloodline is actually something to celebrate .

Don't get me started with that .

Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on August 27, 2020, 11:42:56 pm
I was in small town Florida a few years ago. Flew in from Atlanta and was waiting for someone to pick me up and take me to my hotel. Stood outside the terminal. It was raining heavily.

A beautiful young woman came out if the terminal and stood a few feet from me, waiting for her own lift. We smiled and nodded.

After a couple of minutes, she looked at the skies and said, "Global warmin', huh?"

The only three words we exchanged but it spoke dozens of volumes.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: tyke1962 on August 28, 2020, 12:21:12 am
I was in small town Florida a few years ago. Flew in from Atlanta and was waiting for someone to pick me up and take me to my hotel. Stood outside the terminal. It was raining heavily.

A beautiful young woman came out if the terminal and stood a few feet from me, waiting for her own lift. We smiled and nodded.

After a couple of minutes, she looked at the skies and said, "Global warmin', huh?"

The only three words we exchanged but it spoke dozens of volumes.

Slightly different slant but I often wonder what it is about football that the Americans don't get .

It's good enough for the rest of the world because the facts are its the best sport of them all bar none .

How insular is it possible to be ? .

You may as well say oh sorry the internet isn't part of who we are and we reject it .

It also leads to the question of why that may be , US sports and franchises are phenomenal money makers for owners .

Feed them baseball , the NFL and basketball as their only real sports and you control the dollars .

You know , I know the reality is football would blow the US sports to smithereens and whats more importantly it would have them competing on a world stage and lead them to a more global world .

No the Boston Red Sox aren't World Champion's and neither are the Chicago Bears , they are the best in the US and absolutely nothing more .


Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: ravenrover on August 28, 2020, 02:30:20 pm
On thst point I like the eay the claim World Champions in Sports that only they, with a few rubbish exveptions, play
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on August 28, 2020, 08:44:06 pm
This, from the Economics Editor of that well known hysterically communist rag, The Economist.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ryanavent/status/1299365116673232896

Can you argue with it?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Janso on August 28, 2020, 08:51:46 pm
https://twitter.com/DanRather/status/1299102345796575233?s=20

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: tyke1962 on August 28, 2020, 09:17:11 pm
On thst point I like the eay the claim World Champions in Sports that only they, with a few rubbish exveptions, play

The thing about football is that you get heartache , even Brazilians suffer heartache with the national team , their own world cup in 2014 for example .

We as a nation are no stranger's to it to say the very least .

The US play very little team sports on the international stage or at least major sports .

Getting told you are the greatest nation in the world every day of your life and then finding out pretty quickly you aren't if they embraced the greatest sport on earth maybe something the ruling classes in the US  don't want to face .

After all a battering in Vietnam is one thing to bust the ego never mind a footballing one every four years .

Easier to be world champs at rounders when hardly anyone plays the stupid sport .
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on August 29, 2020, 10:31:12 am
So what happens in November if Trump loses in a tight race and simply refuses to accept the validity of the result because (he claims, despite having no evidence) there is massive voter fraud?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on August 29, 2020, 07:45:07 pm
So what happens in November if Trump loses in a tight race and simply refuses to accept the validity of the result because (he claims, despite having no evidence) there is massive voter fraud?

He gets turfed out of the White House in January when his terms ends and it doesn't matter whether he accepts the result or not.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: belton rover on August 29, 2020, 07:55:04 pm
If he refuses to accept it then he should be treated like a Whitehouse intruder.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on August 29, 2020, 07:57:40 pm
Glyn.

Of course it matters if he doesn't accept the result and calls on his base to back him. That is how civil wars start.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: belton rover on August 29, 2020, 08:02:20 pm
👋
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on August 29, 2020, 09:52:32 pm
Glyn.

Of course it matters if he doesn't accept the result and calls on his base to back him. That is how civil wars start.

Neither Trump nor his base will have control of the armed forces, the militia or the police. Congress - including the Republican Party - and the new President will. Trump won't have any power apart from rabble-rousing.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on August 29, 2020, 10:11:54 pm
And as I was suggesting, that's a lot of power.

I have faith that American systems are strong enough to overcome him in that scenario. But I can we'll see a path in which there is a lot of damage done on the way.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on August 29, 2020, 11:30:05 pm
No doubt he'll scream and whine but he won't get any support from the Republican Party. They can't wait to consign him to the dustbin of history.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on August 29, 2020, 11:50:44 pm
Glyn

I'm not talking about that sort of support. I mean support like the Facebook groups who egged on that 17 year old kid to go out with a rifle and shoot BLM protesters in Wisconsin.

If Trump tries to fire up people like that with "I've had the Election stolen from me"...
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on August 31, 2020, 12:27:52 pm
This is what I was meaning.

https://www.ft.com/content/8f9543f4-4aa5-4853-80a8-2ed218784140
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on August 31, 2020, 12:35:26 pm
And Trump, as President of The USA has no words of solace for the protestors gunned down by a far-right 17 year old.

But when a far-right protestor is shot and killed the next night, this...even though it's not been established who killed him.

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1300193398477946883

For the record (and again, I shouldn't have to say this, but...) None of those deaths is more tragic or more of a waste than the others.

The point is that the President of the USA is now openly and firmly allying himself with one side. While people are getting killed.

Anyone who doesn't see this for what it is, Trump lining up the cans of petrol and matches to burn America if he loses in November, has not been paying attention this past 4 years.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: belton rover on August 31, 2020, 01:24:48 pm
I was in small town Florida a few years ago. Flew in from Atlanta and was waiting for someone to pick me up and take me to my hotel. Stood outside the terminal. It was raining heavily.

A beautiful young woman came out if the terminal and stood a few feet from me, waiting for her own lift. We smiled and nodded.

After a couple of minutes, she looked at the skies and said, "Global warmin', huh?"

The only three words we exchanged but it spoke dozens of volumes.

Slightly different slant but I often wonder what it is about football that the Americans don't get .

It's good enough for the rest of the world because the facts are its the best sport of them all bar none .

How insular is it possible to be ? .

You may as well say oh sorry the internet isn't part of who we are and we reject it .

It also leads to the question of why that may be , US sports and franchises are phenomenal money makers for owners .

Feed them baseball , the NFL and basketball as their only real sports and you control the dollars .

You know , I know the reality is football would blow the US sports to smithereens and whats more importantly it would have them competing on a world stage and lead them to a more global world .

No the Boston Red Sox aren't World Champion's and neither are the Chicago Bears , they are the best in the US and absolutely nothing more .



I was watching an old episode of the brilliant ‘Modern Family’ yesterday. Jay, the patriarchal  member of the family,  was asked why he didn’t like ‘soccer’. He said he preferred sports where ‘something happens’. He then confirmed his thoughts about nothing happening in a game because it ended 1-1.
That’s why they don’t like ‘soccer’ - because the only thing that can ‘happen’ is for lots of goals to be scored. I think most Americans would prefer football games to consist of nothing but penalty shootouts.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on August 31, 2020, 01:48:36 pm
There was a similar episode of The Simpsons where Homer sat down to watch World Cup 1994, genuinely wanting to be interested.

He picked up the paper and said, "So who is this game? Hmmm....Belgium against Nigeria."

Cut to next scene of Homer having switched to baseball.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: tyke1962 on August 31, 2020, 11:20:17 pm
I was in small town Florida a few years ago. Flew in from Atlanta and was waiting for someone to pick me up and take me to my hotel. Stood outside the terminal. It was raining heavily.

A beautiful young woman came out if the terminal and stood a few feet from me, waiting for her own lift. We smiled and nodded.

After a couple of minutes, she looked at the skies and said, "Global warmin', huh?"

The only three words we exchanged but it spoke dozens of volumes.

Slightly different slant but I often wonder what it is about football that the Americans don't get .

It's good enough for the rest of the world because the facts are its the best sport of them all bar none .

How insular is it possible to be ? .

You may as well say oh sorry the internet isn't part of who we are and we reject it .

It also leads to the question of why that may be , US sports and franchises are phenomenal money makers for owners .

Feed them baseball , the NFL and basketball as their only real sports and you control the dollars .

You know , I know the reality is football would blow the US sports to smithereens and whats more importantly it would have them competing on a world stage and lead them to a more global world .

No the Boston Red Sox aren't World Champion's and neither are the Chicago Bears , they are the best in the US and absolutely nothing more .



I was watching an old episode of the brilliant ‘Modern Family’ yesterday. Jay, the patriarchal  member of the family,  was asked why he didn’t like ‘soccer’. He said he preferred sports where ‘something happens’. He then confirmed his thoughts about nothing happening in a game because it ended 1-1.
That’s why they don’t like ‘soccer’ - because the only thing that can ‘happen’ is for lots of goals to be scored. I think most Americans would prefer football games to consist of nothing but penalty shootouts.

The thing is baseball isn't exactly an all singing all dancing sport .

For large parts of it the pitcher throws the ball , there's a swing and a miss and this seems to go on for much of the time .

It has its home run moments admittedly but it seems a very tactical battle more than anything else .

All those hot dogs and bud must make it worthwhile I suppose .

I don't mind the NFL to be fair , I can get that from their point of view in all honesty .

Thing is , the season starts in September and finishes in December for the majority of teams who don't make the play offs , each club plays 9 home games a season , can you imagine that over here ? .

Even then they can lose a home game if they are due to play over here which is something I really don't get .

Bonkers country .... to say the least .
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on September 01, 2020, 09:36:19 am
Football is not 'the' sport in Oz either it probably ranks maybe third after Rl and AFL but could be lower, which I would put down to it being 'new' and has been poorly managed over the years.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: idler on September 01, 2020, 10:52:27 am
Football is not 'the' sport in Oz either it probably ranks maybe third after Rl and AFL but could be lower, which I would put down to it being 'new' and has been poorly managed over the years.
You forgot cricket and Pom bashing Sydney.😉
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on September 01, 2020, 11:28:03 am
Football is not 'the' sport in Oz either it probably ranks maybe third after Rl and AFL but could be lower, which I would put down to it being 'new' and has been poorly managed over the years.
You forgot cricket and Pom bashing Sydney.😉
Yep, and probably because I'm not a huge fan it was quite a surprise to be on the receiving end of some of it, but only during tests between the two countries. I've been to one 1 dayer in my life, played in one match and scored 1 run, this should be on the lame to fame thread?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: ravenrover on September 01, 2020, 01:18:27 pm
I see Trump is now sticking up for the gunman, he was being attacked he could have got killed so he shot someone to save his own life
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on September 01, 2020, 01:59:57 pm
He went into the crowd with an assault rifle. And apparently he's the victim.

Bad, bad times.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on September 01, 2020, 03:17:25 pm
He went into the crowd with an assault rifle. And apparently he's the victim.

Bad, bad times.
He drove across state lines to walk into a crowd with an assault rifle. Doesn't get more premeditated than that.

The Right will now condone first degree murder as long as the victim is someone they don't like. In the US, at least. Although the refugee crisis over here shows we're not too far behind.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: i_ateallthepies on September 01, 2020, 05:31:57 pm
He went into the crowd with an assault rifle. And apparently he's the victim.

Bad, bad times.
He drove across state lines to walk into a crowd with an assault rifle. Doesn't get more premeditated than that.

The Right will now condone first degree murder as long as the victim is someone they don't like. In the US, at least. Although the refugee crisis over here shows we're not too far behind.

Not the best example to use to compare the UK the the US, Macho.  On this score alone and with the leader of the country condoning it I would say we're light years behind, thankfully.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: belton rover on September 01, 2020, 05:41:53 pm
He went into the crowd with an assault rifle. And apparently he's the victim.

Bad, bad times.
He drove across state lines to walk into a crowd with an assault rifle. Doesn't get more premeditated than that.

The Right will now condone first degree murder as long as the victim is someone they don't like. In the US, at least. Although the refugee crisis over here shows we're not too far behind.

Not the best example to use to compare the UK the the US, Macho.  On this score alone and with the leader of the country condoning it I would say we're light years behind, thankfully.

Yes, but why let ridiculous comparisons get in the way of some more Tory bashing?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on September 01, 2020, 06:54:31 pm
In your eager rush to be a clever dick Belton, you might have missed that I never mentioned the Tories. I said the Right. There are plenty of prominent figures on the right who'd condone it, including in this country. Considering we had the British Union of Fascists in London last week, I'd say it was a fair comparison.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: belton rover on September 01, 2020, 07:17:34 pm
In your eager rush to be a clever dick Belton, you might have missed that I never mentioned the Tories. I said the Right. There are plenty of prominent figures on the right who'd condone it, including in this country. Considering we had the British Union of Fascists in London last week, I'd say it was a fair comparison.

Right/Tories - nit pick all you like.
I think the comparison is anything but fair.

‘Clever dick’! Brilliant.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on September 01, 2020, 07:34:23 pm
MM

That appears to be Belton conflating the Tory party and the British Union of Fascists. I think he's gone into daft mode again.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on September 01, 2020, 08:11:44 pm
MM

That appears to be Belton conflating the Tory party and the British Union of Fascists. I think he's gone into daft mode again.

Perhaps he knows something we don't.

Then again, perhaps not.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: belton rover on September 01, 2020, 08:49:11 pm
MM

That appears to be Belton conflating the Tory party and the British Union of Fascists. I think he's gone into daft mode again.

Billy, I never mentioned, or considered fascists.
If I were you, I would be very, very careful to steer well away from any more racial implications towards me.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: wilts rover on September 01, 2020, 09:05:42 pm
MM

That appears to be Belton conflating the Tory party and the British Union of Fascists. I think he's gone into daft mode again.

Billy, I never mentioned, or considered fascists.
If I were you, I would be very, very careful to steer well away from any more racial implications towards me.


You were the one who introduced the Tories into a discussion about the far-right Belton. Because that's who the far-right are, fascists.

No way would I endorse that. There are some well meaning (but misguided in my opinion) people in the Tory party and among their supporters. There are even some open here, all of whom I have the greatest of respect for and none of whom would I remotely consider fascist.

They do however welcolme proper facists into their party. And allow them to fly their flag in Trafalgar Square. In Cummings/Johnson's Britain in 2020.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: belton rover on September 01, 2020, 09:10:27 pm
Who mentioned the far right?
I didn’t
Macho didn’t
Even Billy didn’t

Just you then.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: wilts rover on September 01, 2020, 09:54:48 pm
Who mentioned the far right?
I didn’t
Macho didn’t
Even Billy didn’t

Just you then.


So in your world the British Union of Fascists as mentioned by Macho and then Billy in posts to which you replied are not far-right!

So err, where on the political spectrum would you place the British Union of Fascists then Belton?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: belton rover on September 01, 2020, 10:09:27 pm
Who mentioned the far right?
I didn’t
Macho didn’t
Even Billy didn’t

Just you then.


So in your world the British Union of Fascists as mentioned by Macho and then Billy in posts to which you replied are not far-right!

So err, where on the political spectrum would you place the British Union of Fascists then Belton?

Macho mentioned Fascists after my comment about the tories.I have made no comment about fascists or the far right. Ever.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on September 01, 2020, 10:16:13 pm
MM said: " The Right will now condone first degree murder as long as the victim is someone they don't like. In the US, at least."

Belton responded: "why let ridiculous comparisons get in the way of some more Tory bashing?"
And
"Right/Tories - nit pick all you like.
I think the comparison is anything but fair."

Draw your own conclusions who is misrepresenting.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: belton rover on September 01, 2020, 10:20:11 pm
Billy, not only are you consistently going back on your word not to engage with me anymore, now your engaging with me through other posters.

It’s very flattering, but you must try and let go while you still have some dignity.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Not Now Kato on September 01, 2020, 10:27:57 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/xqb45Ys.gif)
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: belton rover on September 01, 2020, 10:45:01 pm
Who mentioned the far right?
I didn’t
Macho didn’t
Even Billy didn’t

Just you then.


So in your world the British Union of Fascists as mentioned by Macho and then Billy in posts to which you replied are not far-right!

So err, where on the political spectrum would you place the British Union of Fascists then Belton?

Macho mentioned Fascists after my comment about the tories.I have made no comment about fascists or the far right. Ever.
Who mentioned the far right?
I didn’t
Macho didn’t
Even Billy didn’t

Just you then.


So in your world the British Union of Fascists as mentioned by Macho and then Billy in posts to which you replied are not far-right!

So err, where on the political spectrum would you place the British Union of Fascists then Belton?

I introduced the Tories into a discussion about the right. Not the far right or fascists.
Macho’s post, where he never mentioned the words ‘far’ or ‘fascists’, was the post from which I quoted the Tories.

Now, as I have mentioned before, I don’t pretend to be an expert on politics, but I don’t think linking the words ‘right’ and ‘Tories‘ is misrepresentation.

One or two of you seem to be wanting to play a, potentially, very dangerous game with me.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: wilts rover on September 02, 2020, 03:41:29 pm
And Macho made it clear in the next post that he was referring to the far-right/fascists when you decided to bring up the Tories.

I doubt anyone is playing any games with you, I certainly I am not.

If there is a problem here it is you not reading other people's posts properly - and reading into them things you think they have written as opposed to what they have written.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: belton rover on September 02, 2020, 03:57:15 pm
But Wilts, you and others are constantly doing EXACTLY the same thing that you are accusing me of. Can you really not see that?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: i_ateallthepies on September 02, 2020, 06:35:29 pm
And Macho made it clear in the next post that he was referring to the far-right/fascists when you decided to bring up the Tories.

I doubt anyone is playing any games with you, I certainly I am not.

If there is a problem here it is you not reading other people's posts properly - and reading into them things you think they have written as opposed to what they have written.


And from someone who reckons to be an examiner.  I do hope for the sake of our young people he isn't an examiner of their exam papers.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on September 03, 2020, 12:20:07 am
Look I know there are good people in the states and not all are bonkers but

https://twitter.com/e10rowley/status/1300979928146612224?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1300979928146612224%7Ctwgr%5Eshare_3&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Faustralia-news%2Flive%2F2020%2Fsep%2F03%2Fcoronavirus-a
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: wilts rover on September 07, 2020, 06:02:49 pm
Here's the endorsment we have all been waiting for:

Osma bin Laden's niece supports Trump for President:

https://twitter.com/nypost/status/1302243779932499968
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on September 25, 2020, 12:40:08 am
So what happens in November if Trump loses in a tight race and simply refuses to accept the validity of the result because (he claims, despite having no evidence) there is massive voter fraud?

Here we go. Buckle up folks.

https://mobile.twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1308902276187262978

"Will you commit to a peaceful transition?"

No President in the history of the USA has ever had to be asked that, let alone responded, "We'll see."

And 40% of Americans still approve of him as their President. Those are the ones he's calling out to to respond when he loses in 6 weeks time.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Donnywolf on September 25, 2020, 06:50:28 am
....and its why of course he wants to appoint the Supreme Court Judge before the Election

If he manages it (he's managed everything else he wanted to get) the SC will be made up of 6 Republican Judges and 3 Democrat Judges and he thinks they will be "minded" to support him IF he loses the Presidency and takes his bat and ball home    appeals because he thinks the Election has been rigged.

I cant believe and would never EVER have expected to see what BST has said in the post above - it makes them look like Russia with Putin amending the Rules to cling to power going forward like some African countries leader do and who "we" despise and hope someone will find a way to depose for the good of their people.
I despair


Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: rich1471 on September 25, 2020, 09:56:02 am
The only way trump will leave the white house is by force and he will be kicking and screaming like a child
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on September 25, 2020, 10:38:31 am
And to think. Bell ends like this will have a say in who becomes the most powerful man on earth in 6 weeks.

https://mobile.twitter.com/donie/status/1309229828768489483

Makes you wonder if Democracy is truly f**ked.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on September 28, 2020, 12:00:14 am
trump tax info leaked to NYT shows either he's a crap businessman or is cheating on his tax, who'd have thought?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on September 28, 2020, 12:04:28 am
Aye. Pick the bones out of that.

https://mobile.twitter.com/nytimes/status/1310325842535477248
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on September 28, 2020, 12:10:38 am
Yep and trump's side of the story ......

the Guardian live

“It’s fake news,” he says. “It’s totally fake news. Made up, fake. We went through the same stories, you could have asked me the same questions four years ago, I had to litigate this and had to talk about it. Totally fake news. Actually, I paid tax. And you’ll see that as soon as my tax returns – it’s under audit, they’ve been under audit for a long time, the IRS does not treat me well, they treat me like the Tea Party, like they treated the Tea Party, and they don’t treat me well. They treat me very badly. You have people in the IRS that treat me very, very badly. But they’re under audit. And when they’re not, I would be proud to show you. But that’s just fake news.”
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: dknward2 on September 28, 2020, 12:19:13 am
Still expecting him to win
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on September 28, 2020, 01:03:44 am
Still expecting him to win

If he does now, then we know that America has given up.

He's always been a liar. Everyone has always known that.

But hey! All politicians are liars aren't they? At least Trump has been a success in the cut-throat world of business.

Except now we know that was all piss and wind. He's not made a business profit in 20 years. He has hundreds of millions of dollars of debt.

We now know for certain, he's a charlatan as well as a liar. Never been a successful businessman. Just a tax cheat and a fraud.

It's down to America to decide if it's still a serious country now.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: wilts rover on September 28, 2020, 08:33:44 am
Love this comment:

Imagine being on board with a child-caging climate change denying racist fascist sex offender with 200,000 deaths under his belt and thinking "he's crossed the line now" because he didn't pay enough tax

https://twitter.com/JimMFelton/status/1310332347506659329
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on September 28, 2020, 08:36:48 am
It's not the tax evasion that's the key here Wilts.

It's the fact that it's now clear that he's an utter failure as a businessman.

He's made losses continuously for 20-30 years. Which raises the massive question.

Who is financing him?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on September 28, 2020, 09:42:30 am
Get this!

Trump's tax returns say he made losses in 2008/09 of...


....wait for it...



...wait for it...




$1.4 BILLION!

He's posted losses of $300million from his golf club empire.

He's claimed $70,000 of tax deductible expenses for hairdos.

He has claimed stupendous amounts for undetailed "consultancy costs". Many of the amounts claimed exactly match payments his company made to his daughter.

Is he actually the biggest financial criminal in US history?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on September 28, 2020, 01:49:52 pm
We're so far gone now that I doubt this bombshell will make a blind bit of difference. Trump's supporters won't care - they'll say it's fake news or that not paying taxes makes him smart. His opponents knew he was a crook anyway. And if anyone was still on the fence about him after everything, they'll still be on the fence now.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: dknward2 on September 28, 2020, 06:03:39 pm
The issue is trump supporters tend to be low iq and get behind slogans rather than the actual issue.

Like the one about building a wall and making Mexico pay for it.

I just hope the anti trump voters come out and actually vote for Biden even if they don’t support him just to stop trump getting in again
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on September 28, 2020, 07:19:20 pm
Looks like Cambridge Analytics are back in the headlines: https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1310584937356103686?s=19

Dollars to donuts Cummings has something similar over here, too.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on September 29, 2020, 05:25:55 am
this gem popped it's head up today ...........

''Trump's bid for Sydney casino 30 years ago rejected due to 'mafia connections’''
 
''Cabinet documents reveal police warned NSW government about approving a 1986-87 plan to build city’s first casino in Darling Harbour''

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/16/trumps-bid-for-sydney-casino-30-years-ago-rejected-due-to-mafia-connections
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Donnywolf on September 29, 2020, 06:26:40 am
The issue is trump supporters tend to be low iq and get behind slogans rather than the actual issue.

Like the one about building a wall and making Mexico pay for it.

I just hope the anti trump voters come out and actually vote for Biden even if they don’t support him just to stop trump getting in again

.....mmmmm Yes maybe he missed a trick with the Mexican wall and should have simply said "and we are going to "Build Build Build" that Mexican wall"

... and they Mexico are going to have to "Pay-so give us the Pesos"
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on September 29, 2020, 09:34:03 am
The UK Times has a front page story with Trump quoted as saying it's fake news but the murdoch ownd NY Post doesn't bother referring to the story at all from what I can see.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on September 29, 2020, 10:32:18 am
The UK Times has a front page story with Trump quoted as saying it's fake news but the murdoch ownd NY Post doesn't bother referring to the story at all from what I can see.

He's been laying the ground work for this approach for years.

The chosen approach on the Right these days is not to engage in discussion. It's to deny the objective reality. Trump is the master of this in that he's not even subtle about it. His "Fake Noos" line repeated ad naseum for half a decade has told millions and millions of people on the Right exactly what they want to hear.

"Don't engage with information that goes against your gut instinct. They are trying to deceive you. But you know what your gut is telling you. So go with your gut, not with these "facts"!"

I truly fear where that is going to take us because it's not going away. The Right hasn't had a political philosophy to justify its existence for 2 decades. It exists purely as a vehicle for power. And it sees that this approach works. Not trying to win an honest argument about the direction of society. Just stoking up resentment and telling the resentful it is on their side. I fear it's going to get a lot worse. Possibly starting in November when Trump loses heavily and refuses to step down.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Donnywolf on September 29, 2020, 11:58:19 am
I think that is what he will do.

I am no expert in Politics especially those of the USA but it looks like he is stoking the fires by pumping up his potential supporters that the Election has been stolen and he is the rightful winner

If he loses 52 - 48 it will be interesting to see what people think of a democratic result of that scale

Again no one is harking back to the Florida "pregnant" chads where some Cards stamped in favour of Democrat Al Gore were challenged and deemed invalid - and such a small number of votes cost Al Gore Florida which carried enough "clout" to have made nim President (might have been 6 Seats or however they count up)

Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on September 29, 2020, 12:42:37 pm
I read an article about him the other day which said that he lives in the present that everything done is to deal with what needs to be dealt now without thought for tomorrow or the consequenses and the fake noos bit fits in with that as it allows him to deal with the past in the same way it's all fake there's no baggage. Maybe that's why people that don't delve too deeply believe him because he believes it himself.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: ravenrover on September 29, 2020, 12:52:12 pm
Did I hear correctly this morning that he has done no preparation for the up coming presidential debate and will rely only on intellect?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on September 29, 2020, 01:26:49 pm
Did I hear correctly this morning that he has done no preparation for the up coming presidential debate and will rely only on intellect?

He's relying on Biden to cock it up, in accordance with the picture he's painted (ie 'Sleepy Joe). Certainly not intellect. I'd be surprised if Biden lived down to Trump's image of him and didn't make Trump look like the intellectual pygmy he is.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on September 29, 2020, 01:41:28 pm
So it turns out that Cambridge Analytica was used by the Trump campaign in 2016 to target black Democrat supporters and feed them social media stuff to out them off voting.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1310640924029059074

That is, of course, the same CA that Cummings' illegally used to pour lies into people's social media feed before the Brexit vote a few months before.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Donnywolf on September 29, 2020, 03:00:59 pm
It worked both times
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: IDM on September 29, 2020, 03:06:40 pm
Doesn’t make it right though..
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Donnywolf on September 29, 2020, 03:10:30 pm
Totally agree IDM - its completely wrong but it worked - and who knows it might work for Trump again. The Genie is out of the bottle and I fear it will never go back

Cant believe Trump expresses very very radical views on all sorts of parts of the population and yet they somehow having heard that seem to forget they have heard that and still vote for him
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on September 30, 2020, 08:07:17 am
From the bit I watched ............ nothing unexpected ............ lunatic.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Donnywolf on September 30, 2020, 08:38:41 am
The loser on the night was democracy itself because previous Debates which have reached all time lows were eclipsed by miles last night in what was little more than a Junior School Playground spat.

Thankfully I didnt watch - but the "highlights" and I use the term ironically were enough

Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Metalmicky on September 30, 2020, 09:08:06 am
Anthony Zurcher summarises it well...

In a debate that was the political equivalent of a food fight, the winner is the man who emerged least covered in slop.

On Tuesday night, that man was Joe Biden - if only because his main goal was to prove to Americans that he could hold up under pressure, that he had not lost a step due to his advancing age. He had to show he could take a pie to the face, metaphorically speaking, and keep his cool.

He mostly met that standard, although it was at least in part because Donald Trump, by his constant hectoring and interruptions, seldom gave the former vice-president a chance to say something truly damaging to his own cause.

Twitter Trump - the unconventional, bombastic, insulting and rumour-mongering aspect of this president - was on full display throughout the hour and a half event. Unfortunately for the president, many Americans, even his own supporters, find his social media persona one of his more unattractive attributes.

Trump needed this debate to shake up a race that is tilting against him - and has been remarkably stable, through economic, health and social adversity.

Nothing about this hour-and-a-half free-for-all seems likely to alter the dynamics of this contest or change the minds of the one in 10 American voters who say they are still undecided (although perhaps they'll resolve never to watch another one of these).

Anything resembling a substantive exchange was buried in a cavalcade of bloviation and bickering - and because of this, it was a missed opportunity for the president.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-54350538
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Donnywolf on September 30, 2020, 10:11:53 am
Wait for it - as alluded to already as Trump is getting armed :

Fake Election folks fake Election - I will accept the result as long as I know its been fair

How ironic that they and us and others send representatives around the globe to oversee a Countries election to assure the poulation it is both "free" and "fair". NEVER did I expect those same people to be needed in the US or UK BUT I reckon they ought to get round there FAST
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on September 30, 2020, 12:26:57 pm
Jesus. How are those two the best the USA has to offer? Absolute horror show. I have no idea what any voter was supposed to learn from a spectacle like that.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: scawsby steve on September 30, 2020, 05:44:34 pm
Horrendous to watch.

One of them constantly bullying and interrupting; the other one constantly stuttering and mumbling.

Embarrassing.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: ravenrover on September 30, 2020, 06:05:53 pm
SS Biden actually did/does suffer from a stutter
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: scawsby steve on September 30, 2020, 06:39:18 pm
SS Biden actually did/does suffer from a stutter

He did have a stutter as a child, but overcame it, which is a credit to him.

However, the main concern now is his age, and how that affects his cognitive abilities.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: wilts rover on September 30, 2020, 06:58:28 pm
Steve - last night Trump cae out with this whilst describing Europe! Who is it exactly that is concerned about Bidens' cognative abilities?

In Europe, they live, they have forest cities, they're called forest cities. They maintain their forest, they manage their forest. I was w/ the head of a major country, it's a forest city. He said, 'Sir, we have trees that are far more - they ignite much easier than California.

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1311129668972675072
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on September 30, 2020, 07:24:59 pm
Wilts.

Yeah but...

Man, Woman, Person, Camera, TV
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: scawsby steve on September 30, 2020, 07:28:35 pm
Steve - last night Trump cae out with this whilst describing Europe! Who is it exactly that is concerned about Bidens' cognative abilities?

In Europe, they live, they have forest cities, they're called forest cities. They maintain their forest, they manage their forest. I was w/ the head of a major country, it's a forest city. He said, 'Sir, we have trees that are far more - they ignite much easier than California.

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1311129668972675072

Wilts, when have I ever said that Trump is an intellectual genius?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: wilts rover on September 30, 2020, 09:31:22 pm
Steve - last night Trump cae out with this whilst describing Europe! Who is it exactly that is concerned about Bidens' cognative abilities?

In Europe, they live, they have forest cities, they're called forest cities. They maintain their forest, they manage their forest. I was w/ the head of a major country, it's a forest city. He said, 'Sir, we have trees that are far more - they ignite much easier than California.

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1311129668972675072

Wilts, when have I ever said that Trump is an intellectual genius?

As I said SS, who is it exactly that is concerned about Biden's cognative abilities?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on October 03, 2020, 01:32:10 am
I'm totally resigned to Deep Fake videos destroying the concept of Objective Truth.

Still. Might be a few laughs on the way.

https://mobile.twitter.com/socflyny/status/1287965336030019584
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Campsall rover on October 03, 2020, 07:46:52 am
SS Biden actually did/does suffer from a stutter

He did have a stutter as a child, but overcame it, which is a credit to him.

However, the main concern now is his age, and how that affects his cognitive abilities.
They are both too old. If they are the best a country with a population of 250 million can produce then they have a problem.
Absolute joke. Trouble is it isn’t funny. It’s a tragedy.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Donnywolf on October 03, 2020, 10:22:17 am
... aided and abtetted by a crap Electoral system imo

Why do they not just count the Votes for each Candidate then each vote would be equal instead of the way they do it where 50.1% v 49.9% of the votes counted in say Wyoming gets 3 "delegates" for the winning person

the same 50.1 in Florida would get the winner 29 delegates
the same 50.1 in California would get the winner 55 delegates

Sure its based on population I get that but 1 delegate for Rhode Island 1 for Hawaii - just seems crap to me
So first to 270 wins so go big and throw lots of stuff at California 55 Texas 36 Florida 29 Illinois 20 and Pennsylania 20 and you have 160 right there in just 5 States and you can afford to give no timemoney or promises the way of Rhode Island Hawaii and Alaska with 3 - which to me means votes there matter LESS
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Donnywolf on October 03, 2020, 10:30:34 am
French (since 65) and Russia are both done by popular vote although maybe there are other factors at work in Russia  :chair:
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Bentley Bullet on October 03, 2020, 10:41:33 am
I suppose you could argue that the UK's position in the EU might have been more dominant had the MEP's been selected more proportionately. There was one MEP for every 880,000 British voters, compared to one for every 70,900 Maltese. The EU average is one MEP for 486,000 voters."
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on October 03, 2020, 10:57:24 am
I suppose you could argue that the UK's position in the EU might have been more dominant had the MEP's been selected more proportionately. There was one MEP for every 880,000 British voters, compared to one for every 70,900 Maltese. The EU average is one MEP for 486,000 voters."

If MEPs were allocated strictly by proportion, the Brexiteers would moan we'd lost out because Germany would get three times as many extra seats that the UK would.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on October 03, 2020, 10:57:39 am
SS Biden actually did/does suffer from a stutter

He did have a stutter as a child, but overcame it, which is a credit to him.

However, the main concern now is his age, and how that affects his cognitive abilities.
They are both too old. If they are the best a country with a population of 250 million can produce then they have a problem.
Absolute joke. Trouble is it isn’t funny. It’s a tragedy.

They are far from the best the country can produce. Elizabeth Warren was the stand-out candidate on the Democrat side. She would have made a magnificent President. But the party was obsessed with it being a fight between two old men in Biden and Sanders.

I have to admit, I'm wracking my brains and trying to thing who there is at the top of the Republican party who combines intelligence and integrity like Warren does, and I'm drawing a blank.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on October 03, 2020, 11:04:06 am
SS Biden actually did/does suffer from a stutter

He did have a stutter as a child, but overcame it, which is a credit to him.

However, the main concern now is his age, and how that affects his cognitive abilities.
They are both too old. If they are the best a country with a population of 250 million can produce then they have a problem.
Absolute joke. Trouble is it isn’t funny. It’s a tragedy.

They are far from the best the country can produce. Elizabeth Warren was the stand-out candidate on the Democrat side. She would have made a magnificent President. But the party was obsessed with it being a fight between two old men in Biden and Sanders.

I have to admit, I'm wracking my brains and trying to thing who there is at the top of the Republican party who combines intelligence and integrity like Warren does, and I'm drawing a blank.

Intelligence and integrity? At the moment, Mitt Romney. His policy ideas are a different matter though.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on October 03, 2020, 11:05:59 am
Yeah he's probably about the best they have. Thin gruel though.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Bentley Bullet on October 03, 2020, 11:07:31 am
I suppose you could argue that the UK's position in the EU might have been more dominant had the MEP's been selected more proportionately. There was one MEP for every 880,000 British voters, compared to one for every 70,900 Maltese. The EU average is one MEP for 486,000 voters."

If MEPs were allocated strictly by proportion, the Brexiteers would moan we'd lost out because Germany would get three times as many extra seats that the UK would.

Do you mean instead of losing out on seats in general?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on October 03, 2020, 11:10:34 am
I suppose you could argue that the UK's position in the EU might have been more dominant had the MEP's been selected more proportionately. There was one MEP for every 880,000 British voters, compared to one for every 70,900 Maltese. The EU average is one MEP for 486,000 voters."

If MEPs were allocated strictly by proportion, the Brexiteers would moan we'd lost out because Germany would get three times as many extra seats that the UK would.

Do you mean instead of losing out on seats in general?

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/unitedkingdom/en/media/euromyths/degressiveproportionality.html
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Bentley Bullet on October 03, 2020, 11:14:08 am
That's the article I got my info from!
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on October 03, 2020, 11:19:22 am
And this is what he says

''What about the EU? Well, I think it's important here too that smaller countries (a number of them smaller, incidentally, than my constituency of Yorkshire & Humber) have a voice at the table without being shouted down by their much bigger neighbours. This is the main motivation behind degressive proportionality. But it's also a simple mathematical fact that a strictly proportional system wouldn't work''
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Bentley Bullet on October 03, 2020, 11:39:18 am
My post was in response to DonnyWolf's post regarding PR. I was interested in his views on such a system being used in the EU. I wasn't suggesting I supported it!
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on October 03, 2020, 11:42:00 am
No one does
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on October 03, 2020, 02:24:11 pm
That's the article I got my info from!

...and couldn't be arsed to give a link to.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Bentley Bullet on October 03, 2020, 02:43:47 pm
Correct! I copied and pasted the figures instead.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on October 03, 2020, 03:47:54 pm
Shame you didn't read past what you copied and pasted then.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: idler on October 03, 2020, 06:26:38 pm
I'll be glad when the dinner bell goes and we can get back in school.😳
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on October 04, 2020, 10:31:04 am
Washington Post

''The CDC’s contact tracing agency was not mobilized, and in areas where he held events in recent days, local officials said they haven’t heard from the White House''

Nothing to see here, apparently
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on October 04, 2020, 10:56:18 am
Whether or not Trump is seriously ill, his team continues its pushing of bullshit on the American people.

They reckon he has (heroically, from his deathbed/easily cos he's so strong and not ill*) been in the office at the hospital, working on Govt business. Signing docume...actually,signing blank sheets of paper apparently.

https://mobile.twitter.com/AndrewFeinberg/status/1312586796711149569

*Delete according to preference and choose your own reality.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on October 04, 2020, 12:33:56 pm
Just finished watching the middle two episodes of Watergate and the similarities of Nixon/trump firing people to save his skin are bizarre. I only ever knew the outline of the story the detail is boggling.

You can see where trump got his blueprint from.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on October 05, 2020, 09:54:13 pm
This sums up the sutuation in Washington at present

''White House grinds to a halt as Trump's press chief joins Covid-infected list''

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/05/white-house-trump-coronavirus-covid-kayleigh-mcenany
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on October 07, 2020, 01:13:12 am
Say what you like about the Tories. At least they were secretive and subtle when they directed that Towns Fund money away from safe Labour seats and towards marginals they wanted to win last December.

No such subtlety from Trump.

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1313551795646541824

"Vote for me and I'll leave Democrat states to rot and save YOUR livelihood."

What an utter moral vacuum that piece of shit is.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Donnywolf on October 07, 2020, 06:19:45 am
... and they are being criticised for their Lock down procedure as well dont forget as several of their Constituencies are not locked down despite the stats say they are "more virus ridden" than some IN lockdown

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/no-coronavirus-lockdown-for-top-tory-constituencies-rqtkhxm8s

I have no clue if this is true but why would "The Thunderer" draw attention to it ?

And to conclude is the above Trumps version of levelling up ?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on October 07, 2020, 11:39:34 pm
Just in case anyone is still in any doubt about the utter inhumanity at the core of Trump's original gang, read this.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/06/us/politics/family-separation-border-immigration-jeff-sessions-rod-rosenstein.html#click=https://t.co/VaZ0RZQ6Rb

Simply sickening.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on October 08, 2020, 07:25:10 am
Yep and this data mining company is an enabler

''Palantir has no place at Berkeley: they help tear immigrant families apart''

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/31/palantir-berkeley-immigrant-families-apart
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on October 08, 2020, 09:48:10 pm
I'm betting Melania has the door locked at the moment 
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Dutch Uncle on October 09, 2020, 02:18:53 pm
Yep and this data mining company is an enabler

''Palantir has no place at Berkeley: they help tear immigrant families apart''

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/31/palantir-berkeley-immigrant-families-apart

Ouch

Professor Tolkien would certainly be turning in his grave to see one of his words used by a company like that. I wonder what his children and estate think of it - are Tolkien's creations trademarked?

On a related note, a few days ago Seth Abramson, in response the an article in the Washington Post that Trump wants his giant wall painted black and with huge gates in it, commented 'there is a legitimate argument to be made that Trump has more in common with Sauron than with Eisenhower'    :laugh:
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Metalmicky on October 10, 2020, 10:07:30 pm
Seen a post (on another site) showing the ballot papers being sent out for the US election.........  fook  :unsure:


(https://www.owlstalk.co.uk/forums/uploads/monthly_2020_10/C36427A6-275F-487B-A768-0363906425BD.thumb.jpeg.f4ec0376ac7d6f9d7fb31c5e3b10bd96.jpeg)
(https://www.owlstalk.co.uk/forums/uploads/monthly_2020_10/E2EEE21D-6345-4526-B7C9-38317DCF8F58.thumb.jpeg.2ed0e91f3eca3d7e3cb8a27d07c0bede.jpeg)
(https://www.owlstalk.co.uk/forums/uploads/monthly_2020_10/65FDF050-BF16-4380-A1A9-06BF2D02D2AD.thumb.jpeg.67a63c6592c252cba267d70e7acfb7ea.jpeg)
(https://www.owlstalk.co.uk/forums/uploads/monthly_2020_10/722ECEFE-D19A-4914-A984-8F3701868E48.thumb.jpeg.7c8745e68a28b4e1602d10019a619e21.jpeg)
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Metalmicky on October 10, 2020, 10:09:33 pm
Kanye West anyone..? 

Question is...... could he be any worse?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on October 10, 2020, 10:23:20 pm
No MM. It's true. Donald Trump really IS running for President.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: wilts rover on October 10, 2020, 10:38:17 pm
The endorsement we have all been waiting for:

Taliban supports Trump for President

https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1314973971583053824
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Dutch Uncle on October 11, 2020, 12:07:14 pm
The endorsement we have all been waiting for:

Taliban supports Trump for President

https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1314973971583053824

The saying 'Judge a man by the company he keeps' has never been more apposite
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on October 12, 2020, 09:22:28 am
Cured immune, what a man.

The danger is great as many think they have had the virus and some of his fans may think they are also immune without actually having ever being tested.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on October 12, 2020, 09:53:15 pm
Three weeks out, poll averages.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/wisconsin/
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Dagenham Rover on October 12, 2020, 10:00:59 pm
Cured immune, what a man.

The danger is great as many think they have had the virus and some of his fans may think they are also immune without actually having ever being tested.

The blokes as mad as a box of frogs    I quite liked him to start with    Just shows what my judgements like     about the same as my Super 6 predictions   :)
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on October 13, 2020, 12:47:13 am
DR.

He's not mad. He is genuinely evil. He's in this for no other reason than his own vanity and his own pockets. He will sacrifice anyone and anything to satisfy those two needs.

My abiding fear now is what he does when he loses next month and faces ruin, both psychologically and financially. Because for 100 days after he loses, he's still the most powerful man on the planet. And he has nothing left to live for.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Donnywolf on October 13, 2020, 06:04:19 am
Cured immune, what a man.

The danger is great as many think they have had the virus and some of his fans may think they are also immune without actually having ever being tested.

The blokes as mad as a box of frogs    I quite liked him to start with    Just shows what my judgements like     about the same as my Super 6 predictions   :)

DR - (the old joke coming) I think thats a bit unkind on frogs

I never liked him - but theres no correlation between Super 6 because even though I disliked him and now dislike him tremendously (installing him in 2nd place in the list of people I really dislike without ever having met them - he has overtaken Han-cog) my Super6 predictions are crap too

I think BST is close to nailing him though. He is a bloke that's wanted the power of that Office and all the benefits it can generate for him , his family and "associates" and now he has it he has become "bigger than the Office itself"

If he loses and I dont think thats a given watch for the legal challenges to the Vote - and ways for him to stay in Office

If he wins, watch for a worsening - if its possible - of this almost dictatorship style of ruling AND watch for him trying to alter the Constitution so he can get "4 more years" - and I would think he deffo introduce that autocratically if he could

Personally I hope enough of the USA voters prevail and we see those shenanigens and the toys getting chucked out of his pram because I am sure he is one big bully & spoilt kid used to NOTHING but getting his own way - and I would love it - love it - and might move him back below Han-cog.

Now wheres my Super6 for this week ?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on October 14, 2020, 12:36:57 pm
latest polls of swing seats popular vote

the Guardian is talking about a daunting lead for Biden.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/14/us-election-polls-tracker-who-is-leading-swing-states-donald-trump-joe-biden

Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Donnywolf on October 14, 2020, 02:21:21 pm

the Guardian is talking about a daunting lead for Biden.


Better than a "haunting" lead for Trump

Dont write him off yet though - even if he loses he will be bleating on about cheating.

Democrats may as well cheat cos he will say they have !
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on October 14, 2020, 03:00:26 pm
He's definitely going to challenge the result when he loses. And that is when it gets scary. I expect him to lose by a long way on the Electoral College votes. There will be precious little doubt that he's really lost. But he will claim there is an issue with postal ballots. And it'll go to the Supreme Court. Where he will have packed it with Conservative Republicans once the current one is sworn in.

Dangerous possibilities there...a President who has lost, potentially being supported by the SC. With anger at breaking point in both sides of the population. I've said before, that is how civil wars start.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: idler on October 14, 2020, 03:18:49 pm
I was in a shop owned by an American in Bradford on Saturday.
I felt like I was in a different universe.
He trotted out Obama was a gay Bornean Kenya, Michelle Obama was a trans and their children were adopted and provided by the CIA.
Trump was elected as he was the only honest politician and doesn't take his presidential salary just minimum expenses and gives the rest to US Army vets. All of this will come out very soon and be sure to watch out for Red October, it's coming.
I left the shop almost in a daze but how many Republicans in the US actually believe this crap. The big worry is how many carry guns and when you look at some of the private weaponry it's frightening.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on October 14, 2020, 03:43:33 pm
The day I realised Trump was going to win last time was about this time before the 2016 election. I was in Canada for a meeting and one of the attendees was s very intelligent, highly successful engineer from Florida. Conservative political views but we've got on well for years.

Several of us were having a pint after the meeting and the Brits were taking the piss out of Trump. This American guy was looking into his beer and grinding his teeth. Eventually he said, "Well I'm voting for him."

It was like that moment when the stranger walks in the wild west bar and everyone stops and looks at him. He said, "Yep. Given the choice between a showman Trump and the liar Clinton, I'll go for the showman every time)."

We all said, "But Trump's the biggest liar ever!" He said, "No, Clinton's email issue is worse."

And it suddenly dawned on me. Even people as intelligent and worldly as him were prepared to switch off their critical thinking and find any reason to support Trump because he was on their political side. It felt like the ground had opened up under me.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: ravenrover on October 14, 2020, 05:42:28 pm
I was in a shop owned by an American in Bradford on Saturday.
I felt like I was in a different universe.
He trotted out Obama was a gay Bornean Kenya, Michelle Obama was a trans and their children were adopted and provided by the CIA.
Trump was elected as he was the only honest politician and doesn't take his presidential salary just minimum expenses and gives the rest to US Army vets. All of this will come out very soon and be sure to watch out for Red October, it's coming.
I left the shop almost in a daze but how many Republicans in the US actually believe this crap. The big worry is how many carry guns and when you look at some of the private weaponry it's frightening.

You only have to listen to the Republicans Abroad when they are interviewed on the beeb to get a very good idea what a Trump voter is like. Also watching the idiots who queued for the Trump covid Rally in Florida when some of them were interviewed .... oh my goodness they are crazy
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: silent majority on October 14, 2020, 06:07:07 pm
They're uneducated, that's the biggest issue. They believe what they're told.

There's no critical thinking with the vast majority of them.

My son lived in the US for 15 years, and we spent a lot of time over there, the viewpoints they hold, from nationalised health to communism, to guns and the IRA, and the fact that they still consider themselves to be the best nation on earth is staggering.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Donnywolf on October 14, 2020, 06:17:41 pm
He's definitely going to challenge the result when he loses. And that is when it gets scary. I expect him to lose by a long way on the Electoral College votes. There will be precious little doubt that he's really lost. But he will claim there is an issue with postal ballots. And it'll go to the Supreme Court. Where he will have packed it with Conservative Republicans once the current one is sworn in.

Dangerous possibilities there...a President who has lost, potentially being supported by the SC. With anger at breaking point in both sides of the population. I've said before, that is how civil wars start.

Yes what a supreme irony - Al Gore was effectively robbed by the pregnant chad fiasco in Florida

Cant remember the numbers involved but it was microscopic (looked it up 327 out of 6 million) but the Courts upheld it I think and so by the narrowest of margins that swung Florida and Bush won

Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: EasyforDennis on October 14, 2020, 07:13:28 pm
They're uneducated, that's the biggest issue. They believe what they're told.

There's no critical thinking with the vast majority of them.

My son lived in the US for 15 years, and we spent a lot of time over there, the viewpoints they hold, from nationalised health to communism, to guns and the IRA, and the fact that they still consider themselves to be the best nation on earth is staggering.

The fact that the majority of Americans don't have a passport says it all. The most insular people on this planet.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: dknward2 on October 14, 2020, 08:22:18 pm
Said it before I'm still not convinced that Biden will win. Trump could still win which is more odd the fact of things that he gets away with
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Superspy on October 14, 2020, 08:29:43 pm
It's certainly going to be interesting to see if the scenario the social media giants have been 'wargaming' comes to pass due to the politicising of postal votes - Trump in the lead on election night but Biden clawing into it as postal votes are counted over the following days/weeks.

It's going to be a right mess.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: scawsby steve on October 14, 2020, 08:48:21 pm
He's definitely going to challenge the result when he loses. And that is when it gets scary. I expect him to lose by a long way on the Electoral College votes. There will be precious little doubt that he's really lost. But he will claim there is an issue with postal ballots. And it'll go to the Supreme Court. Where he will have packed it with Conservative Republicans once the current one is sworn in.

Dangerous possibilities there...a President who has lost, potentially being supported by the SC. With anger at breaking point in both sides of the population. I've said before, that is how civil wars start.

I agree with all of that BST, and regarding the last sentence, I don't think the US Civil War really ever ended.

I've a mate, a C&W musician, who went to Nashville last year. He said the hatred of the North is so seething down there, it makes our North/South divide look nothing.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on October 14, 2020, 09:00:34 pm
Trump going after Biden's son now. Expect this to be the "but Hillary's emails" excuse many so-called "moderates" give for voting Trump in.

All the polling is pointing towards Biden, but I'm really not convinced.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on October 15, 2020, 08:27:49 am
I think I reached peak trump yesterday and looked to see how I could donate to the Biden camp but of course you can't as a non citizen.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Colemans Left Hook on October 20, 2020, 04:35:41 pm
Just found out from an expert on Bloomberg that 6% of the voters voted for a third candidate ( not Hilary or Trump) last time and he said that isn't going to happen this time. He hinted that made the difference last time.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on October 21, 2020, 12:25:25 am
Just in case anyone is still in any doubt about the utter inhumanity at the core of Trump's original gang, read this.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/06/us/politics/family-separation-border-immigration-jeff-sessions-rod-rosenstein.html#click=https://t.co/VaZ0RZQ6Rb

Simply sickening.

And this is the consequence. This is what has happened as a result of that mobster's policies.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1244066?__twitter_impression=true

Two weeks to go till he gets the shoeing in he deserves.

Edit: I meant to type "monster" but sometimes the mistypes are as much on the money...
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: ravenrover on October 21, 2020, 09:15:42 am
I see that his medical bloke Fauci now has to go out for his daily exercisr with a bodyguard,  because of something Trump has said, Fed up of hearing him and all the other idiots going on about Covid.
It really seems like incitement to commit murder
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on October 21, 2020, 10:52:57 am
Two weeks ago the FBI foiled a far right terrorist cell who were plotting to abduct the (Democrat) Governor of Wisconsin and put her on trial for treason.

Trump has, ever since then, been screaming at his rallies that the Governor is a bad person who is governing badly.

Deliberately provoking the far right headcases for the coming violence when he loses next month.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on October 21, 2020, 12:07:33 pm
Stochastic terrorism is a staple of Trump speeches. Constantly berate and vilify a person or group without ever explicitly calling for violence, so you have plausible deniability when it inevitably happens. And your cult base - along with the "just saying"-type devil's advocates - will defend you to the hilt to trigger the libs.

Again, I hate to bang this drum, but it's happening here, too. All the messages about lefty do-gooder lawyers coming from Priti Patel, and then a lawyer gets stabbed in his office. Coincidence? Definitely not.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Donnywolf on October 21, 2020, 02:30:11 pm
Two weeks ago the FBI foiled a far right terrorist cell who were plotting to abduct the (Democrat) Governor of Wisconsin and put her on trial for treason.

Trump has, ever since then, been screaming at his rallies that the Governor is a bad person who is governing badly.

Deliberately provoking the far right headcases for the coming violence when he loses next month.

.... and the irony as I have probably said times many - this from the President of the United States of America the country that once had supremely commendable ideals when it came to Democracy and took those views around the world trying to preach to others what a great great system it was

Now they and we are f****d even if Biden wins and even if the Tories are voted out next GE
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Ldr on October 21, 2020, 05:57:20 pm
https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-54240651

fond this an eye opener
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on October 22, 2020, 01:03:49 am
Interesting story exploding about Sacha Baron Cohen and Trump's personal enforcer...
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on October 22, 2020, 07:24:17 am
''These Snarky emails from the president are raking in millions''

''The Princeton researchers told ABC News that they found that approximately 70 per cent of the Trump campaign emails and about 40 per cent of the Biden campaign emails contained at least one of those six tactics.

Using sensationalist or clickbait subject lines to encourage the recipient to open the email

Using forward referencing or information-withholding terms designed to trigger curiosity

Creating a false sense of urgency to create a “fear of loss” response

Obscuring the name of the sender to encourage the reader to open the email

Using false threads, a trick which makes the email look like it’s part of an ongoing conversation

Inserting bogus Re: and Fwd: markers to make it seem like the email was a reply or forwarded''


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-22/donald-trumps-campaign-email-blitz/12781782?nw=0
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Yargo on October 22, 2020, 09:25:17 am
Interesting story exploding about Sacha Baron Cohen and Trump's personal enforcer...
Go on I'll stoop low and indulge, what you got, one of your usual lumps of knackers off Twitter?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on October 22, 2020, 09:26:47 am
I won't spoil it but it's funny
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: big fat yorkshire pudding on October 22, 2020, 10:22:55 am
This election sums up US politics doesn't it. It's the battle to be least bad.  Trump is just terrible but what does Biden stand for? He's just not as bad as Trump but doesn't have much else going for him as I can see.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on October 22, 2020, 11:39:12 am
Interesting story exploding about Sacha Baron Cohen and Trump's personal enforcer...
Go on I'll stoop low and indulge, what you got, one of your usual lumps of knackers off Twitter?
Knackers is right.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: turnbull for england on October 22, 2020, 12:42:09 pm
This election sums up US politics doesn't it. It's the battle to be least bad.  Trump is just terrible but what does Biden stand for? He's just not as bad as Trump but doesn't have much else going for him as I can see.


Im all  for anyone but Trump but Biden  will be almost 82 at end of term if he gets in  - hes 78 20th November.  Can he really be up to the rigours of that post at that  age ?     
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Dutch Uncle on October 22, 2020, 01:07:23 pm
This election sums up US politics doesn't it. It's the battle to be least bad.  Trump is just terrible but what does Biden stand for? He's just not as bad as Trump but doesn't have much else going for him as I can see.


Im all  for anyone but Trump but Biden  will be almost 82 at end of term if he gets in  - hes 78 20th November.  Can he really be up to the rigours of that post at that  age ?     

On the other hand I would fully expect Biden to surround himself with a team of properly qualified and experienced appointees who are not afraid to speak truth to power - the complete opposite of the current administration.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on October 22, 2020, 01:45:17 pm
This election sums up US politics doesn't it. It's the battle to be least bad.  Trump is just terrible but what does Biden stand for? He's just not as bad as Trump but doesn't have much else going for him as I can see.


Im all  for anyone but Trump but Biden  will be almost 82 at end of term if he gets in  - hes 78 20th November.  Can he really be up to the rigours of that post at that  age ?     

Have to say, I think the Democrats missed THE star candidate in Elizabeth Warren. She would have made a superb President.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: dknward2 on October 22, 2020, 01:51:13 pm
This election sums up US politics doesn't it. It's the battle to be least bad.  Trump is just terrible but what does Biden stand for? He's just not as bad as Trump but doesn't have much else going for him as I can see.

Unfortunately can't see America voting for a female.

Was listening to Arnold Schwarzenegger the other day when he was governor he surrounded himself with 50/50 of Dems and republicans so he could here both side of the opinion think Biden would do something similar


Im all  for anyone but Trump but Biden  will be almost 82 at end of term if he gets in  - hes 78 20th November.  Can he really be up to the rigours of that post at that  age ?     

Have to say, I think the Democrats missed THE star candidate in Elizabeth Warren. She would have made a superb President.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: ravenrover on October 22, 2020, 06:07:37 pm
This election sums up US politics doesn't it. It's the battle to be least bad.  Trump is just terrible but what does Biden stand for? He's just not as bad as Trump but doesn't have much else going for him as I can see.


Im all  for anyone but Trump but Biden  will be almost 82 at end of term if he gets in  - hes 78 20th November.  Can he really be up to the rigours of that post at that  age ?     
Rigours of the post !!!!! I don't think that Trump has put a lot into the post, his main rigours have neen posting on Twitter during his tenure
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: drfchound on October 23, 2020, 01:23:12 pm
Just heard Trump on the news talking about COVID.
He says “ I take full responsibility “.
The next words that come from him are “It’s not my fault”.
He is so funny.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: selby on October 23, 2020, 06:11:30 pm
  After Biden's poor showing last night, saying he would close down the oil industry £10 million has been bet on a trump win.
  According to reports Biden was pathetic last night, not reported on BBC of course.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: tyke1962 on October 23, 2020, 06:17:41 pm
  After Biden's poor showing last night, saying he would close down the oil industry £10 million has been bet on a trump win.
  According to reports Biden was pathetic last night, not reported on BBC of course.

Aye well we all know who wins the most in a bookies v punter contest .
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: wilts rover on October 23, 2020, 06:32:26 pm
  After Biden's poor showing last night, saying he would close down the oil industry £10 million has been bet on a trump win.
  According to reports Biden was pathetic last night, not reported on BBC of course.

According to everone else Biden won:

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/22/politics/cnn-poll-final-presidential-debate/index.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/trump-biden-debate-who-won-snap-poll-presidential-election-b1246008.html

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/10/23/us/debate-trump-biden

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/23/biden-trump-presidential-debate-election-viewers

Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on October 23, 2020, 06:34:36 pm
  After Biden's poor showing last night, saying he would close down the oil industry £10 million has been bet on a trump win.
  According to reports Biden was pathetic last night, not reported on BBC of course.

'According to reports'? You haven't been watching the US media then. CNN had a group of a dozen North Carolinian (swing state) undecideds. None of them said Trump won the debate and all but three of them had now decided to vote Biden based on the debate they'd just watched. Which 'reports' are you talking about or are you keeping them secret as usual?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: EasyforDennis on October 23, 2020, 06:39:52 pm
  After Biden's poor showing last night, saying he would close down the oil industry £10 million has been bet on a trump win.
  According to reports Biden was pathetic last night, not reported on BBC of course.

'According to reports'? You haven't been watching the US media then. CNN had a group of a dozen North Carolinian (swing state) undecideds. None of them said Trump won the debate and all but three of them had now decided to vote Biden based on the debate they'd just watched. Which 'reports' are you talking about or are you keeping them secret as usual?

Let me guess. He got that information from Fox News Trumps pet channel.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on October 23, 2020, 06:41:51 pm
  After Biden's poor showing last night, saying he would close down the oil industry £10 million has been bet on a trump win.
  According to reports Biden was pathetic last night, not reported on BBC of course.

'According to reports'? You haven't been watching the US media then. CNN had a group of a dozen North Carolinian (swing state) undecideds. None of them said Trump won the debate and all but three of them had now decided to vote Biden based on the debate they'd just watched. Which 'reports' are you talking about or are you keeping them secret as usual?

Let me guess. He got that information from Fox News Trumps pet channel.

It's usually some random anonymous bloke on an unnamed radio station.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: IDM on October 23, 2020, 08:25:34 pm
  After Biden's poor showing last night, saying he would close down the oil industry £10 million has been bet on a trump win.
  According to reports Biden was pathetic last night, not reported on BBC of course.

Close down, or reform.?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: ravenrover on October 23, 2020, 09:34:33 pm
  After Biden's poor showing last night, saying he would close down the oil industry £10 million has been bet on a trump win.
  According to reports Biden was pathetic last night, not reported on BBC of course.
You obviously didn't listen to Radio 4 news at 5.00pm then Selby,
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: tyke1962 on October 24, 2020, 01:28:40 am
From what I've read tonight the US are expecting the biggest voter turn out by percentage since 1908 .

I'll stick my head out and say it's to vote against Trump , as mental as the Americans are I'd be amazed if it's to support him .

He's got his multi millions of support of course he has but that's because of the size of population and it's a relative factor .

He's about at best a 12% chance of winning according to what I've read from credible sources tonight .

The only reason the democrats aren't giving it the big un is because of what happened in 2016 , even though Blair knew he was going to win in 97 they knew to not get too carried away .

I personally think Trump is heading for a real hiding .

This fecker humiliated will be about the best news the worlds had in a while .

Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: IDM on October 24, 2020, 07:07:53 am
It will be a “relative factor” in some parts of the States..!!

Unfortunately millions of US citizens have no idea nor care less how their country and leaders are viewed elsewhere and are stuck in 19th century mentality.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: EasyforDennis on October 25, 2020, 09:54:29 am
It will be a “relative factor” in some parts of the States..!!

Unfortunately millions of US citizens have no idea nor care less how their country and leaders are viewed elsewhere and are stuck in 19th century mentality.

19th???? You are being kind there.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on October 25, 2020, 10:11:38 am
Huge voter turnout usually goes againt the incumbant but on this occasion it may be to do wirh covid. However I have read many articles on how grass roots organisations have been mobilising to nulify the gerimandering and obstructions to african americans and bame people voting.

Fingers crossed he gets smashed.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on October 26, 2020, 09:33:33 am
Will America really vote in a cowardly bully like this for another 4 years?

https://mobile.twitter.com/PoliticusSarah/status/1320519094295240712

Polls are saying he has a 1 in 8 chance. Quite astonishing that, after seeing him in action for 4 years, 40-odd% still support him. Never mind the 25,000 documented lies. The 500 kids separated from their parents at the border, put in cages and now not able to be reunited. The catastrophic dealing with COVID. The fawning to dictators and abuse at democratic allies. The Mueller report that resulted in numerous close colleagues being convicted of lying and perjury, rather than tell the truth on what they knew of Trump.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: IDM on October 26, 2020, 09:55:31 am

Fingers crossed he gets smashed.

Yes, up the arse with a baseball bat..




Sideways.!!
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: ravenrover on October 26, 2020, 12:37:10 pm
Iteresting interview with Fauci yesterday picking up on comments by Trump and openly disagreeing with him. Marr tried to turn it into a he said you said discussion but he politely put Marr in his place. Pity we don't have people like him in his position willing to come put and say when our Clown and his cronies are telling porkies
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on October 26, 2020, 12:50:38 pm
Marr was appalling in that interview. Worst kind of journalism. Just trying to create a scandal instead of using it to inform people.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: EasyforDennis on October 26, 2020, 01:46:45 pm
Marr was appalling in that interview. Worst kind of journalism. Just trying to create a scandal instead of using it to inform people.

Tell me when isn't Marr appalling?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: drfchound on October 26, 2020, 06:47:28 pm
Will America really vote in a cowardly bully like this for another 4 years?

https://blog.moneysavingexpert.com/2020/04/martin-lewis--working-from-home-due-to-coronavirus--claim-p6-wk-/?_ga=2.75919825.57767697.1603226315-1438800863.1594298240

Polls are saying he has a 1 in 8 chance. Quite astonishing that, after seeing him in action for 4 years, 40-odd% still support him. Never mind the 25,000 documented lies. The 500 kids separated from their parents at the border, put in cages and now not able to be reunited. The catastrophic dealing with COVID. The fawning to dictators and abuse at democratic allies. The Mueller report that resulted in numerous close colleagues being convicted of lying and perjury, rather than tell the truth on what they knew of Trump.







I didn’t know that Martin Lewis was such a tw@t.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on October 26, 2020, 09:21:34 pm
Ha! That'll teach me to post without checking the link I pasted.

This was the link I meant to post.

https://mobile.twitter.com/PoliticusSarah/status/1320519094295240712
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: big fat yorkshire pudding on October 26, 2020, 09:24:20 pm
https://news.sky.com/story/trump-calls-out-biden-for-confusing-him-with-george-w-bush-couldnt-remember-my-name-12115287

Was just reading through and saw this.  There has to be some concern about the guy's general mental fitness, particularly for another 4 years.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on October 26, 2020, 09:27:17 pm
Ha! That'll teach me to post without checking the link I pasted.

This was the link I meant to post.

https://mobile.twitter.com/PoliticusSarah/status/1320519094295240712

I did wonder what the connection was after reading it twice, the bit where he accuses her of giving Biden a 'soft' interview and her reply ................... I haven't interviewed Biden!
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: scawsby steve on October 27, 2020, 02:25:08 am
George Trump?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on October 27, 2020, 03:48:59 pm
I'd put Biden in front of Trump in any mental sharpness test you can think of!

But here's what I was worried about, and why I still think Trump will win (albeit not legitimately) - his other dodgy court pick, Brett Kavanaugh, indicates mail-in votes shouldn't be counted after election night. This means you can mail in your ballot in plenty of time, and if the state can't count it before election night, then your vote won't count. I'll be honest, I don't see how this election gets resolved peacefully, I really don't.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/26/in-wisconsin-ruling-supreme-court-foreshadows-election-night-cliffhanger-432725
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on October 27, 2020, 05:10:55 pm
I'd put Biden in front of Trump in any mental sharpness test you can think of!

But here's what I was worried about, and why I still think Trump will win (albeit not legitimately) - his other dodgy court pick, Brett Kavanaugh, indicates mail-in votes shouldn't be counted after election night. This means you can mail in your ballot in plenty of time, and if the state can't count it before election night, then your vote won't count. I'll be honest, I don't see how this election gets resolved peacefully, I really don't.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/26/in-wisconsin-ruling-supreme-court-foreshadows-election-night-cliffhanger-432725

Been saying as much for a while MM. There's no way on God's earth that Trump is accepting defeat without fighting like the deranged animal he is.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on October 28, 2020, 12:29:03 am
There's a whole lot of rules for different states re posting and recieval times

https://www.brookings.edu/research/voting-by-mail-in-a-pandemic-a-state-by-state-scorecard/
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on October 29, 2020, 12:13:52 am
If he wasn't such an obnoxious human being, Trump in late 2020 would be almost pitiable.

This was him today. Rambling like a drunk on the street corner.
https://mobile.twitter.com/atrupar/status/1321548174427852801

For comparison, this was him in 2015 when he announced he was going to run for President. Still talking bullshit in content, but look at the difference in his demeanour.

https://youtu.be/apjNfkysjbM

Astonishing how deranged he has become.

And to think. After next Tuesday, when he has lost the election by 10%, he still has possession of the nuclear codes for 11 weeks.


Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Donnywolf on October 29, 2020, 06:32:41 am
I'd put Biden in front of Trump in any mental sharpness test you can think of!

But here's what I was worried about, and why I still think Trump will win (albeit not legitimately) - his other dodgy court pick, Brett Kavanaugh, indicates mail-in votes shouldn't be counted after election night. This means you can mail in your ballot in plenty of time, and if the state can't count it before election night, then your vote won't count. I'll be honest, I don't see how this election gets resolved peacefully, I really don't.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/26/in-wisconsin-ruling-supreme-court-foreshadows-election-night-cliffhanger-432725 (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/26/in-wisconsin-ruling-supreme-court-foreshadows-election-night-cliffhanger-432725)

Been saying as much for a while MM. There's no way on God's earth that Trump is accepting defeat without fighting like the deranged animal he is.

.... be prepared for "stolen the election folks - stole it "   :aok:

.... "fake news fake result folks fake result"  :aok:


.... " illegal result folks legal challenge folks" He wont say that he isnt smart enough LOL
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on October 29, 2020, 11:55:07 am
Thing is the republicans have already done so much to tamper with the vote that the democrats won't accept it if he wins. And if he loses, he sure as hell won't accept that. He's created a tinderbox and I don't see any way that it doesn't get set on fire.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: EasyforDennis on October 29, 2020, 12:25:45 pm
And he hasn't rushed to get US Supreme Court Justice Amy Coney Barrett so quickly for no reason.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Dutch Uncle on October 29, 2020, 12:29:00 pm
Quote from Seth Abramson:

It's sickest political plot in U.S. history: you do *nothing* to fight a pandemic; it forces people to vote by mail; a stooge slows the mail; two stolen SCOTUS seats ensure you get an opinion saying vote-counting must stop early.

*That's* how you try to steal an election.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on October 29, 2020, 10:34:12 pm
He's certainly in a moral free zone and capable of anything Dutch
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on October 29, 2020, 10:59:02 pm
Bang on Dutch. That is what is coming next week. Let's see how strong American democracy is, when he loses by 10% of the vote and refused to accept it.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: DonnyOsmond on October 29, 2020, 11:03:16 pm
I'm all for that drama.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on October 29, 2020, 11:44:01 pm
Bang on Dutch. That is what is coming next week. Let's see how strong American democracy is, when he loses by 10% of the vote and refused to accept it.
Wish I had that level of faith. I'm still convinced he'll suppress and tamper with the vote enough to win, and I don't know if American democracy has sufficient oversight to hold him to account for it. Biden being a fairly limp candidate doesn't help.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Bentley Bullet on October 30, 2020, 02:14:32 pm
That's my mind made up on who I'm betting on!
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on November 01, 2020, 05:07:24 pm
Here's an interesting yet slightly concerning poll.

(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/31a737ac9a35495ab7006273279a9cfc4795614b/0_0_720_333/master/720.jpg?width=620&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&s=41cc78d023727d2c7158835274b68f9e)

Biden is nearly 40 points ahead among early voters. But Trump is nearly 40 points ahead among voters who'll vote on election day. Given what we know already about the GOP doing their best to disrupt early votes, even cancelling potentially thousands of votes which may not be able to be counted on election night, the path to stealing the election is clear.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on November 01, 2020, 05:29:10 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9aJ_tTPwPY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGYPRs5co7M
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on November 02, 2020, 10:37:20 am
Standby.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jonathanvswan/status/1322981523608449024
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on November 02, 2020, 11:10:16 am
A couple of pundits have Biden at 85-90% chance of winning yep head for the bunker
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on November 02, 2020, 11:38:52 am
The opinion polls would have to be out by historically unprecedented amounts for Trump to even stand a chance of winning. But I will guarantee you, there is no way he is admitting defeat on Tuesday night. This is likely to get very, very ugly.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: EasyforDennis on November 02, 2020, 12:46:01 pm
What is even worse in all of this is that if/when Trump loses he still remains in office for 11 weeks!!
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on November 02, 2020, 09:09:44 pm
The artificial vote-counting deadline that Trump is pushing for could mean that all the votes cast by post by the overseas US military personnel could get ignored. That'll go down well with the armed services!
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Donnywolf on November 03, 2020, 05:41:01 am
What is even worse in all of this is that if/when Trump loses he still remains in office for 11 weeks!!

Yes its not ideal to have an outgoing President in a position to continue to "rule" and have the nuclear codes ready to deploy . I am sure there are lots of steps to keep that under control - BUT there are people pointing out that Trump can do almost anything he wants including pardoning himself

I read an article where he Tweeted he "could Pardon himself - but why would I because I have not done anything wrong". However with the legal Constitutional experts split on exactly what is and what is not possible - if he does get voted out he may well decide he MIGHT have done something wrong and do it anyway

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/12/can-trump-pardon-himself/578074/
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Dutch Uncle on November 03, 2020, 08:45:57 am
The opinion polls would have to be out by historically unprecedented amounts for Trump to even stand a chance of winning. But I will guarantee you, there is no way he is admitting defeat on Tuesday night. This is likely to get very, very ugly.

Absolutely BST. The best case (!) is that the military evict him. He won’t go quietly, and will try to destroy a lot of things. The ‘Trump train’ in Texas shows the mindset of his supporters. There are two sorts of people in Trump’s universe, those who are with him and will do anything for him, and those who are not, and they need to be insulted and threatened.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Donnywolf on November 03, 2020, 09:27:40 am
A bit like B****t over here then (both ways of course)
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Dutch Uncle on November 03, 2020, 11:38:47 am
What is even worse in all of this is that if/when Trump loses he still remains in office for 11 weeks!!

Yes its not ideal to have an outgoing President in a position to continue to "rule" and have the nuclear codes ready to deploy . I am sure there are lots of steps to keep that under control - BUT there are people pointing out that Trump can do almost anything he wants including pardoning himself

I read an article where he Tweeted he "could Pardon himself - but why would I because I have not done anything wrong". However with the legal Constitutional experts split on exactly what is and what is not possible - if he does get voted out he may well decide he MIGHT have done something wrong and do it anyway

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/12/can-trump-pardon-himself/578074/

Whatever Trump's situation over Federal crimes, and whether he can pardon himself or not for those, there are plenty of State crimes he has committed where he definitely has no power of pardon.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Donnywolf on November 03, 2020, 05:21:21 pm
Good - thanks for that ! Come on USA - get him out and then "get him in"
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Campsall rover on November 04, 2020, 07:51:30 am
He has claimed victory this morning.

The votes are still being counted.

Who the hell does this man think he is.  USA’s 1st Dictator. Thinks he can do whatever he wants.

This man needs stopping now as he is a danger to Democracy and to the World.

I say this as someone who is no supporter of the Democrats as i don’t think Biden will be good for the American economy and that would not be good for the UK imo.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: EasyforDennis on November 04, 2020, 09:52:56 am
He has claimed victory this morning.

The votes are still being counted.

Who the hell does this man think he is.  USA’s 1st Dictator. Thinks he can do whatever he wants.

This man needs stopping now as he is a danger to Democracy and to the World.

I say this as someone who is no supporter of the Democrats as i don’t think Biden will be good for the American economy and that would not be good for the UK imo.

We are all doomed.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on November 04, 2020, 01:57:21 pm
And yet millions are still voting for him. The polls were way off once again. Is Trump a cause, or is he simply a symptom?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on November 05, 2020, 12:05:15 am
I've been saying for years MM, the root cause of Brexit and Trump was the Austerity that both the UK and the USA had imposed on them by right wing Governments in the early 2010s. It was a catastrophically bad economic policy and it led to years of underperforming economies with wages stagnant. In that environment, people work harder just to stand still and they understandably get angry. Farage picked up on that anger here and pointed people to immigrants and the EU, when they were not the root cause. he was a nobody before 2010. Totally irrelevant. But Austerity made him relevant. Trump picked up on it and pointed the anger at China and Mexico. And both of them fed that feeling of blaming The Other for people's lack of prospects. They normalised feelings that people thought they had previously had to suppress.

I was predicting those sorts of social splits back in 2010, when the LDs went into coalition with the Tories here and enabled Austerity. Because there was a massive example from history. Hitler swept to power after Chancellor Bruning imposed swingeing Austerity on Germany at the start of the Great Depression. He came along telling Germans that they deserved better and that it was the fault of the Jews that there were 4-5million Germans out of work. Right wing populists have always gained from badly bungled economic situations. Obviously the past decade has been nothing like as bad as the 30s, but it is from exactly the same root cause.

it's a f**king long way back to heal the divisions in society now.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on November 05, 2020, 02:35:43 am
It's looking increasingly likely that Biden will win Arizona and Nevada, which will give him the 270. He might also get Georgia too, Trump's lead is shrinking at an alarming rate.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Donnywolf on November 05, 2020, 06:25:50 am
... will that mean "Trump's head is shrinking at an alarming rate" (to match)

I DO hope so
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on November 05, 2020, 08:10:30 am
I'm hoping that with all the chaos of challenging votes and legal actions that it distracts him for as possible to reduce the amount of damage he can do.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Donnywolf on November 05, 2020, 09:06:19 am
One of his Legal team was just on TV outlining Trups case - and it appears to the cynic in me that they want the counts stopped (where they are winning like Pa) and to be continued (where they are losing like Az)

She was asked if Trump would concede either now or when Biden gets to 270 or indeed if / when Trump lost the remaining undeclared States and she said NO

She then asked "I find it strange that nobody is asking Joe Biden that same question". Well I suspect the answer to that is he is sat on 253 needing 17 more EC Votes which can come with just taking Pennsylvania for 20 more or a couple of other States such as Nevada and Arizona or Wisconsin where it is a close run thing but there will be a recount as Biden leads by 21000 ish I think it was.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: idler on November 05, 2020, 10:13:03 am
If there is a possibility of Democrats cheating then there is the same option for Republicans to cheat but that is never mentioned. Add Trump's past actions and tweets and I know who I would trust.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on November 05, 2020, 10:22:19 am
It's looking increasingly likely that Biden will win Arizona and Nevada, which will give him the 270. He might also get Georgia too, Trump's lead is shrinking at an alarming rate.

The way the votes are going, I suspect Biden will win Arizona, Nevada, Georgia and Pennsylvania.

The narrative has been that this is a close election. It's only been seen to be close because of how the votes have been counted. In reality, Biden has won the popular vote by 4-5 million, and will, I think, end up 100 Electoral College votes ahead of Trump. A landslide by any measure.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: IDM on November 05, 2020, 10:55:39 am
Saw some captions on bbc news this morning:

Trump supporters protesting in Pennsylvania - stop the vote..

Trump supporters protesting in Arizona (or similar where Biden is just ahead) - count all votes.

As if the rest of the world can?t see the difference.?

Spoilt children led by the biggest Spoilt bas**rd in chief.!!
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: drfchound on November 05, 2020, 11:52:26 am
IDM, that last line of yours..... I said virtually the same thing to someone this morning.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on November 05, 2020, 12:52:15 pm
Thing is, there's a huge community in the US who only get their news from Fox and self-supporting online groups. I do think they genuinely believe that the only way Trump can lose is by the Democrats stealing the election. They simply weren't prepared for the possibility of him losing fairly. And they genuinely believe that they have a duty to protect democracy. It's very scary.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on November 05, 2020, 02:02:04 pm
Speaking of Fox News, here's Trump's press sec being fact-checked on air by them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF1z6X2iOMI&ab_channel=BillBeck

Trump is now too far right and swivel-eyed for Fox News.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: i_ateallthepies on November 05, 2020, 02:13:05 pm
I listened to US expert earlier explaining that the Supreme Court would not rule to overturn the result, that would be out of the question (and Trump knows that) but what they will do is rule politically with a verdict that gives Trump cover against the legal difficulties he inevitably faces after the presidency.
He didn't elaborate on how that would be but might be a more logical explanation of the path that Trump is taking.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Ldr on November 05, 2020, 05:12:28 pm
Thing is, there's a huge community in the US who only get their news from Fox and self-supporting online groups. I do think they genuinely believe that the only way Trump can lose is by the Democrats stealing the election. They simply weren't prepared for the possibility of him losing fairly. And they genuinely believe that they have a duty to protect democracy. It's very scary.

Why does this make me think of the eu referendum 🤔
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Donnywolf on November 05, 2020, 06:02:23 pm
Just watching clashes outside Philadelpihia Count station with all the people Trump mobilised with "they are stealing the Election from you" and the group of people who are desperate for democracy to prevail by supporting the people inside who have promised " to count every legal vote" to respect everyones right to vote - and for that vote to be counted

How bizarre that a nation that sends observers to far flung countries to help them and oversee their Elections to provide a fair result had degenerated into such a sh*t heap of stupidity
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on November 05, 2020, 06:08:45 pm
Thing is, there's a huge community in the US who only get their news from Fox and self-supporting online groups. I do think they genuinely believe that the only way Trump can lose is by the Democrats stealing the election. They simply weren't prepared for the possibility of him losing fairly. And they genuinely believe that they have a duty to protect democracy. It's very scary.

Why does this make me think of the eu referendum 🤔

Dunno Ldr. I don't think anyone suggests that votes were not counted correctly in the EU Referendum, due to a plot to steal the result.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: selby on November 05, 2020, 06:18:18 pm
  Wasn't there questions asked about some votes in a bye election in Peterborough?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on November 05, 2020, 07:16:13 pm
Weren't there?

yes there were questions asked. By Farage because he lost. It turned out there was no fraud when the election was investigated.

Birds of a feather eh Trump and Farage? Lose elections and then make shit up about fraud, which, in your case, seems to get filed away in the memory.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Ldr on November 05, 2020, 09:15:10 pm
Thing is, there's a huge community in the US who only get their news from Fox and self-supporting online groups. I do think they genuinely believe that the only way Trump can lose is by the Democrats stealing the election. They simply weren't prepared for the possibility of him losing fairly. And they genuinely believe that they have a duty to protect democracy. It's very scary.

Why does this make me think of the eu referendum 🤔

Dunno Ldr. I don't think anyone suggests that votes were not counted correctly in the EU Referendum, due to a plot to steal the result.

Am sure several on here wouldnt accept that Leave could win without foul play was the point i was making
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: IDM on November 05, 2020, 09:44:02 pm
I don?t think anyone ever claimed foul play in that vote itself..

Plenty of bullshit in the campaign, and lies, and the ?350 million big red bus etc..

But no one questioned the validity of the vote.  Methinks you?re stirring up old differences, for why I have no idea.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on November 06, 2020, 11:35:59 am
Has anyone got their hands on one the trump bog brushes, they could be a collector's item in a few years?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Campsall rover on November 06, 2020, 01:39:44 pm
Russia & China think this is hilarious. USA making Democracy look farcical.

Just playing into their hands. Big time.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on November 06, 2020, 02:25:02 pm
Steve Bannon today.

https://mobile.twitter.com/FrankFigliuzzi1/status/1324485819042705408

He's there. On tape. Talking about civil war and beheading the head of the FBI and America's chief COVID policy medic.

Just...speechless.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on November 06, 2020, 02:27:26 pm
He can't be charged with incitement to commit a crime in the US?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on November 06, 2020, 02:27:46 pm
Here are some of Bannon's mates by the way. Nice bunch.

https://mobile.twitter.com/BrexitBin/status/1324705316764864513
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: EasyforDennis on November 06, 2020, 02:36:06 pm
Interesting to see all the news channels cutting him off as he is still is giving out false information and lies.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: i_ateallthepies on November 06, 2020, 04:01:08 pm
Here are some of Bannon's mates by the way. Nice bunch.

https://mobile.twitter.com/BrexitBin/status/1324705316764864513 (https://mobile.twitter.com/BrexitBin/status/1324705316764864513)

First time I've seen that Senator McCain concession speech.  Wow! You could see in his face how sincerely he meant every word.  2008, my God, how rapidly a nation can toss itself into the gutter.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on November 06, 2020, 05:16:21 pm
Here are some of Bannon's mates by the way. Nice bunch.

https://mobile.twitter.com/BrexitBin/status/1324705316764864513 (https://mobile.twitter.com/BrexitBin/status/1324705316764864513)

First time I've seen that Senator McCain concession speech.  Wow! You could see in his face how sincerely he meant every word.  2008, my God, how rapidly a nation can toss itself into the gutter.
You can see the beginnings of it though. The crowd starts off booing his mention of Obama. Now, McCain had enough decency to shut it down straight away. All it took was a bloke who wasn't willing to shut those boos down, but to agitate them more.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on November 06, 2020, 06:00:57 pm
Interesting that it never used to happen before America elected a black President. It's like that lit a touch paper.

After Trump's unhinged press conference last night, I watched a discussion on CNN about it. One contributor called it right. he said, look at the places that Trump is complaining about vote fraud. Detroit, Philadelphia, Atlanta. All cities where blacks are the biggest demographic group. He said it was so horrifyingly obvious what Trump was doing - playing to the racism of the rural and suburban whites - telling them that it is the black cities that have stolen their election.

That is a terrifying thing for a President of the USA to be doing.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: IDM on November 06, 2020, 06:10:26 pm
Can he be prosecuted for slander against a whole section of the population.?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on November 06, 2020, 08:39:42 pm
Interesting that it never used to happen before America elected a black President. It's like that lit a touch paper.

After Trump's unhinged press conference last night, I watched a discussion on CNN about it. One contributor called it right. he said, look at the places that Trump is complaining about vote fraud. Detroit, Philadelphia, Atlanta. All cities where blacks are the biggest demographic group. He said it was so horrifyingly obvious what Trump was doing - playing to the racism of the rural and suburban whites - telling them that it is the black cities that have stolen their election.

That is a terrifying thing for a President of the USA to be doing.
And, of course, Trump's whole political career started as a result of pushing the racist Birther conspiracy theory. I can't remember if he started that before or after Obama made fun of him at the White House correspondents dinner. But Trump has had issues with black people for decades regardless.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Filo on November 06, 2020, 08:42:36 pm
Interesting that it never used to happen before America elected a black President. It's like that lit a touch paper.

After Trump's unhinged press conference last night, I watched a discussion on CNN about it. One contributor called it right. he said, look at the places that Trump is complaining about vote fraud. Detroit, Philadelphia, Atlanta. All cities where blacks are the biggest demographic group. He said it was so horrifyingly obvious what Trump was doing - playing to the racism of the rural and suburban whites - telling them that it is the black cities that have stolen their election.

That is a terrifying thing for a President of the USA to be doing.
And, of course, Trump's whole political career started as a result of pushing the racist Birther conspiracy theory. I can't remember if he started that before or after Obama made fun of him at the White House correspondents dinner. But Trump has had issues with black people for decades regardless.


He?s gonna cry big time if he gets a black prison guard
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: IDM on November 06, 2020, 09:03:51 pm
We are good friends socially with a family originating in Colorado.  They are Republican supporting generally but feel embarrassed by the current pantomime and by Trump.

I don?t know enough about homeland USA issues to say whether or not a Republican or Democrat government is better for them, but there most be millions of like minded genuine Republican supporters who are tearing their hair out at the antics of the current presidential incumbent.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: ravenrover on November 06, 2020, 09:38:11 pm
Interesting that it never used to happen before America elected a black President. It's like that lit a touch paper.

After Trump's unhinged press conference last night, I watched a discussion on CNN about it. One contributor called it right. he said, look at the places that Trump is complaining about vote fraud. Detroit, Philadelphia, Atlanta. All cities where blacks are the biggest demographic group. He said it was so horrifyingly obvious what Trump was doing - playing to the racism of the rural and suburban whites - telling them that it is the black cities that have stolen their election.

That is a terrifying thing for a President of the USA to be doing.
And, of course, Trump's whole political career started as a result of pushing the racist Birther conspiracy theory. I can't remember if he started that before or after Obama made fun of him at the White House correspondents dinner. But Trump has had issues with black people for decades regardless.


He?s gonna cry big time if he gets a black prison guard
Especially of he drops his soap
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Bentley Bullet on November 06, 2020, 09:50:02 pm
That's lifebuoy.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BigH on November 07, 2020, 09:09:07 am
Interesting that it never used to happen before America elected a black President. It's like that lit a touch paper.

After Trump's unhinged press conference last night, I watched a discussion on CNN about it. One contributor called it right. he said, look at the places that Trump is complaining about vote fraud. Detroit, Philadelphia, Atlanta. All cities where blacks are the biggest demographic group. He said it was so horrifyingly obvious what Trump was doing - playing to the racism of the rural and suburban whites - telling them that it is the black cities that have stolen their election.

That is a terrifying thing for a President of the USA to be doing.
And, of course, Trump's whole political career started as a result of pushing the racist Birther conspiracy theory. I can't remember if he started that before or after Obama made fun of him at the White House correspondents dinner. But Trump has had issues with black people for decades regardless.
Macho, it was before that night at the correspondents' dinner. Obama clearly taunted Trump that night but he had it coming having peddled the birther nonsense and the claim that Obama wasn't eligible to be US President as a result.

Trump started it.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Campsall rover on November 07, 2020, 11:02:24 am
That's lifebuoy.
BB your getting worse. Your jokes are far too slippery for me.  :chair:
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: idler on November 07, 2020, 01:03:48 pm
That's lifebuoy.
BB your getting worse. Your jokes are far too slippery for me.  :chair:
Too much soft soaping and you'll get barred.😳
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Bentley Bullet on November 07, 2020, 01:06:30 pm
That's lifebuoy.
BB your getting worse. Your jokes are far too slippery for me.  :chair:
Too much soft soaping and you'll get barred.😳

it certainly Lux that way.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: idler on November 07, 2020, 01:10:35 pm
Or as Popeye said. "Get that in your palm Olive".🤔
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Bentley Bullet on November 07, 2020, 01:19:21 pm
Or as Popeye said. "Get that in your palm Olive".🤔

I've heard they do allow prisoners to come in Pears these days.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: idler on November 07, 2020, 01:21:24 pm
That left me foaming BB.😳
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Bentley Bullet on November 07, 2020, 01:35:14 pm
I was gonna say they have to look out for the odd Fairy but I'd have been ravaged by the Snowflakes!
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Filo on November 07, 2020, 01:48:40 pm
Well, I?ve tried my hardest to get Pit head baths soap in there, but its beat me 😂
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Bentley Bullet on November 07, 2020, 01:57:43 pm
Didn't they use Miners Coal Tar soap?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: idler on November 07, 2020, 02:09:29 pm
Isn't miners soap for the under 21s?😳
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on November 07, 2020, 02:29:08 pm
Judging by the size of him, I assume Trump is a carb'holic.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on November 07, 2020, 02:41:50 pm
Judging by the size of him, I assume Trump is a carb'holic.

and Simple.

If only he'd been more of a Dove as President.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on November 07, 2020, 08:48:26 pm
he has hope in his soul
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Donnywolf on November 08, 2020, 09:12:22 am
At least with Trump gone we get a glimpse of Sunlight at last
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: ravenrover on November 08, 2020, 05:46:55 pm
Wonder if they have bubbles in The Pen?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: scawsby steve on November 08, 2020, 08:02:55 pm
Trump's been giving Biden supporters some dirty Lux.

OK, I'll f*ck off.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Bentley Bullet on November 08, 2020, 08:14:19 pm
I've heard Trump's been signed up by one of the TV soaps to make a Camay'o appearance.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Bentley Bullet on November 08, 2020, 08:35:16 pm
Trump's Aunty's daughter works at Buckingham Palace and she's sent him a gift of some tanned animal skin to cheer him up following his defeat. Apparently, it's very rare to get hold of Cussons Imperial Leather nowadays.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: belton rover on November 08, 2020, 10:21:36 pm
I reckon he will get a nivea chance in 4 years.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Janso on November 08, 2020, 11:20:27 pm
I don't think anyone will carexcept his family.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Campsall rover on November 09, 2020, 10:54:37 am
These jokes are not clean enough for this site.  :chair:

Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on December 23, 2020, 01:05:38 am
So, we come to the endgame of Trump's Presidency.

I said months ago that it would be a frightening time as he faced up to the humiliation of losing and being turfed out.

See this.

https://mobile.twitter.com/BillKristol/status/1341488498700894214

That's not some mad lefty complaining about Trump. It is a lifelong stalwart of the Republican party. A member of the administration under George HW Bush.

Look at tweets 9-11 in that thread in particular.

He's referring there to the fact that in 1974, as Nixon was facing his ruin, the Secretary of State for Defence Schlesinger contacted military top brass and instructed them to speak to him before doing anything if Nixon suddenly gave them an order. Because he was so worried about Nixon's mental health.

Bill Kristol, the lifelong Republican stalwart and well-connected insider is today saying that senior military leaders are having "unprecedented discussions. More sober and weight than those in 1974". And he points out in that thread that there isn't a sensible Secretary of Defence in post today.

Like Kristol says, hopefully this comes to nothing. But it is inconceivable that Trump is just going to meekly pass the baton. And the closer we get to him being turfed out in 4 weeks time, the more the stakes rise.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Janso on December 23, 2020, 03:54:38 am
Armed pro-Trump protestors from Proud Boys and Patriot Prayer were trying to break into the Oregon Capitol Building the other day, at one point the police had barricaded themselves inside and someone who was there said one of the armed group claimed to have seen a Chinese fella and this was why they didn't want them getting in.

Nowt to do wi being armed, then.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on December 23, 2020, 11:53:30 am
Penny finally drops for Mike Pence.

https://mobile.twitter.com/thehill/status/1341468875007930368
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Donnywolf on December 23, 2020, 12:34:29 pm
Trump rumoured to be planning a virtual "second Inauguration" to vie with Joe Bidens real and legal one
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 03, 2021, 10:33:03 pm
Wow.
Two weeks before being escorted from the WH, Trump has committed a federal crime. He's been recorded instructing election officials in Georgia to "find" enough votes to overturn Biden's victory there.

In any functioning democracy, he would end his days behind bars for that.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 03, 2021, 11:16:42 pm
Meanwhile, I know some folk in here think it's been OTT to talk of what Trump might unleash to try to stay in power.

Think on this. Ten (some of them very right wing Republicans like Cheney and Rumsfeld) former Secretaries of State for Defense have published a letter today in which they decry the idea of using the armed forces to resolve electoral disputes.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jaketapper/status/1345857646461640709

And of course, Trump has, since losing the Election, stripped out all the professionals at the top of the Department of Defense and replaced them with his own dedicated supporters.

This could still be the most dangerous fortnight of this century.

EDIT. Not just ANY 10 former Secretaries of State for Defense. Every single one that is still alive.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 03, 2021, 11:22:52 pm
The nervous guessing among some observers is that Trump is going to use his rally in Georgia tomorrow to try to get right-wing paramilitaries on the street, then invoke the Insurrection Act to send the military out into cities.

Let's hope this truly is OTT imagination. But I wouldn't put anything beyond such a maniac and career criminal facing ruin.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Donnywolf on January 04, 2021, 06:24:59 am
It really beggars belief that he can act in the way he has been doing

I find it just strange that he can in the face of real votes cast by real people say those votes are illegal without it seems a shred of credible evidence.

He is imvho making himself look stupid and dragging the USA into a place of humiliation. Is there no one to take him on one side and say "look Sir - you lost - get over it" ? There ought to be.

The USA - the great seekers of Democracy - advocating it - encouraging it - and in some cases "installing it" reduced to a shambles by The Incredible Sulk .
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 04, 2021, 10:42:18 am
Wolf.
The problem.is the dysfunctional nature of the right wing of the Republican party.

It hasn't been what we think of as a normal liberal democracy party for 20 years. It exists to serve some very powerful bankrolled and it will literally stop at nothing to secure power.

Trump is just the (current) logical conclusion of that process. But it'll get worse. There's a whole generation of would-be Trumps coming up, including 12 Senators and 100 Congressmen who this week are going to refuse to validate Biden's victory. They are then going to hammer on the myth that The Establishment stole this election from Trump and one of them hopes to surf to the WH in 2024 on that very dangerous wave.

That's assuming America survives the next fortnight.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Not Now Kato on January 04, 2021, 02:22:44 pm
This could prove interesting....
 
https://www.sundaypost.com/fp/donald-trump-could-be-planning-turnberry-trip-as-scots-airport-told-to-expect-a-high-flyer-the-day-before-joe-bidens-inauguration/
 
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: ravenrover on January 04, 2021, 05:36:54 pm
Will he go into isolation I wonder?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on January 04, 2021, 10:41:11 pm
Maybe it's time for the US to look at the length of the 'lame duck' period as it leaves them vulnerable to trump-like actors and foreign powers. With modern voting systems and communication it shouldn't really take two and half months to sort it.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 05, 2021, 12:35:59 am
Apparently the lame duck period comes from the 1700s, when it would take weeks for the new President's men to get to Washington on there wagons and set up the new administration. Retaining it in the modern times is supposed to be a symbol of the trust and bi-partisan nature of American politics that they can expect the outgoing President to have an orderly handover. That gets blown out of the water when you have a narcissistic, sociopathic maniac as the outgoing President.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on January 06, 2021, 07:17:54 am
Looking very good for the Dems with Warnocks declared a winner and Ossoff increasing his lead, just have to wait for the protests and challenges I guess.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 06, 2021, 09:55:39 am
This is massive. An absolute game changer for US politics over the next few years.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 06, 2021, 10:03:35 am
At the same time, it ups the ante for Trump. It means his cover now is absolutely blown. Be interesting to see what effect that has on the far-right paramilitaries who are demonstrating in Washington tonight.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on January 06, 2021, 11:05:17 am
I'm still struggling to believe it, the grass roots campaigners must have worked their collective butts off.

It would be nice to see trump get a bit of comeuppance.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: ravenrover on January 06, 2021, 11:30:07 am
I see he is now putting the pressure on Pence to do"the right thing" and refuse to confirm the Biden victory today
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 06, 2021, 11:44:26 am
That's Trump's last hope in terms of anything remotely resembling normal process.

There has been talk of him invoking the Insurrection Act if violence kicks off in Washington tonight, which would be...interesting.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on January 06, 2021, 11:44:54 am
Quite remarkable if Dems flip both seats as the analysts expect. I wasn't expecting them to, but it seems the GOP politicking over the stimulus checks has done for them.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 06, 2021, 12:15:15 pm
Quite remarkable if Dems flip both seats as the analysts expect. I wasn't expecting them to, but it seems the GOP politicking over the stimulus checks has done for them.

I'd say it's about far wider issues than that and offers a lot of hope for the future.

Partly it's Trump's insanity since losing the Election turning off some Republicans and motivating some Democrats to get out and vote. Probably moreso though, it's about previously disenfranchised blacks finally getting organised and getting their vote out in numbers. That has been a problem for decades. Many blacks in the Deep South have been disconnected from the democratic process, for all sorts of reasons. That is very troubling for American democracy and society and one thing Trump has done is to bring into clear view the fact that if blacks don't vote, they can end up with an unhinged racist in the White House. Across the country, blacks voted in unprecedented numbers in November. And I suspect that has rolled over into this Senate election. If that continues, it can only be good for American democracy.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on January 06, 2021, 12:37:20 pm
Without doubt Stacy Abrams deserves a massive amount of credit for her work organising disenfranchised voters. And of course, there is a myriad of other factors that go into traditional deep red states swinging into (relatively) comfortable blue. I watched the Loeffler/Warnock debate because I hate myself, and it was a trainwreck for Loeffler. It's worth seeking out for just how bad she was. Take a shot every time she says "radical liberal Raphael Warnock" and you'll be on the floor within half an hour.

Despite all that, I do still think they would've stayed red had it not been for the stimulus checks becoming such a wedge issue this close to election time. It was the straw that broke the camel's back in my opinion, although I might be proved wrong by the polls later. McConnell is normally a canny operator but he really f**ked it with this one.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 06, 2021, 06:52:49 pm
Trump supporters storming the Capitol building as the vote to confirm Biden's win commences.

Here we go...
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Filo on January 06, 2021, 07:03:06 pm
Trump supporters storming the Capitol building as the vote to confirm Biden's win commences.

Here we go...

Trump supporters are thick as f**k, they lose the election then all you hear is to result was fixed, they now storm the Capitol building and then say how do you know they are Trump supporters, well it’s no coincidence that Trump incited them to do this earlier today from behind his protective screen
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 06, 2021, 07:27:56 pm
The mob is now inside the Capitol.

Gunshots and pipe bombs reported.

https://mobile.twitter.com/RepElaineLuria/status/1346890833266683904
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 06, 2021, 07:28:24 pm
This is Trump's last throw of the dice. Full on anarchy.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Filo on January 06, 2021, 07:30:45 pm
This is Trump's last throw of the dice. Full on anarchy.

Could the new administration charge Trump with treason, inciting crimes against the constitution
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 06, 2021, 07:33:37 pm
Assuming they actually get to take power then yes, they could.

The danger here is that the reports earlier in the week were true. Trump uses this as an excuse to impose martial law.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Filo on January 06, 2021, 07:39:50 pm
Is it time for the Generals to step in and protect the constitution
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Filo on January 06, 2021, 08:18:35 pm
All those Countries that America sent the military into in the name of democracy eh?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Filo on January 06, 2021, 08:26:55 pm
We get blamed for some stuff we do
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: wilts rover on January 06, 2021, 08:42:43 pm
Lets hope they improve security for the inaguration or it will be a bloodbath.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 06, 2021, 08:47:57 pm
Here's a question.

Assuming the authorities put this back in the can, then what?

How do you let Trump remain in power for another day? If he's unleashed this, what else will he do if not incarcerated?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: selby on January 06, 2021, 08:48:36 pm
  Makes you wonder what we should do with Grieve, Soubry, Starmer, Thornberry and the gang who went against a democratic vote in the United Kingdom for four and a half years doesn't it.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Filo on January 06, 2021, 08:50:32 pm
Here's a question.

Assuming the authorities put this back in the can, then what?

How do you let Trump remain in power for another day? If he's unleashed this, what else will he do if not incarcerated?

I’m sure I read somewhere that the Vice President can take over if the believe the president has gone mad, Trump has obviously made an enemy of Pence after today

25th amendment
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: River Don on January 06, 2021, 08:51:37 pm
After this lot, Trump has shown himself to be no longer a part of the democratic process. He's a would be dictator.

They need to arrest him.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on January 06, 2021, 08:53:59 pm
This is Trump's last throw of the dice. Full on anarchy.

Not anarchy, it's to get the martial law/state of emergency.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: tyke1962 on January 06, 2021, 08:57:14 pm
The Trump legacy played out in front of the whole world live from a failed state .

Truly shocking scenes going on in DC .

The saddest thing about this is I'm not surprised .
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Janso on January 06, 2021, 09:04:17 pm
  Makes you wonder what we should do with Grieve, Soubry, Starmer, Thornberry and the gang who went against a democratic vote in the United Kingdom for four and a half years doesn't it.

Yes they definitely incited armed groups to storm Parliament. Grow the f**k up and drop the shite WUM act.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on January 06, 2021, 09:12:24 pm
  Makes you wonder what we should do with Grieve, Soubry, Starmer, Thornberry and the gang who went against a democratic vote in the United Kingdom for four and a half years doesn't it.

Yes they definitely incited armed groups to storm Parliament. Grow the f**k up and drop the shite WUM act.

I can't help but wonder if he gets a masochistic kick out of looking like a complete arse all the time. :silly:
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Janso on January 06, 2021, 09:35:08 pm
  Makes you wonder what we should do with Grieve, Soubry, Starmer, Thornberry and the gang who went against a democratic vote in the United Kingdom for four and a half years doesn't it.

You may well be right Selby if we had US gun laws , even with my shocking eyesight I could have hit Thornberry's fat ass from 200 yards .

 :thumbsup:

This is a disgraceful comment, particularly in the context of current events.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Ldr on January 06, 2021, 09:39:13 pm
  Makes you wonder what we should do with Grieve, Soubry, Starmer, Thornberry and the gang who went against a democratic vote in the United Kingdom for four and a half years doesn't it.

You may well be right Selby if we had US gun laws , even with my shocking eyesight I could have hit Thornberry's fat ass from 200 yards .

 :thumbsup:

This is a disgraceful comment, particularly in the context of current events.

Funny though
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 06, 2021, 09:42:30 pm
Aye about as funny as a re-run of The Comedians.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: selby on January 06, 2021, 09:48:44 pm
  If that lot had been in the US and not the UK, and if the Brexiteers had reacted differently to the insults and undermining of democracy that  that lot instigated and some of you lot took up the mantle of on here and social media sites, the same thing could have happened here.
   You lot and that lot pushed it to the limit here in in this country many ways.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on January 06, 2021, 09:54:07 pm
Yeah it's definitely not the fault of the literal fascists at all. The people raising confederate flags in the Capitol bear no responsibility whatsoever.

You know an MP was literally shot in the street during the Brexit campaign, don't you?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on January 06, 2021, 09:54:21 pm
Meanwhile in the real world Ossoff leads by 27,000 votes and is projected to win
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: wilts rover on January 06, 2021, 10:35:20 pm
  If that lot had been in the US and not the UK, and if the Brexiteers had reacted differently to the insults and undermining of democracy that  that lot instigated and some of you lot took up the mantle of on here and social media sites, the same thing could have happened here.
   You lot and that lot pushed it to the limit here in in this country many ways.

You mean like that bloke shouting 'Britain First' before murdering an MP?

I'm not a fascist - it's a complete coincidence I support the same things they do.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 06, 2021, 11:14:50 pm
Aye.

Let me translate Selby's gibberish.

If your side had had people as unhinged and criminal as my side, they might have done unhinged and criminal acts.

Utterly pathetic. But sadly, not unexpected.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Filo on January 06, 2021, 11:25:17 pm
A woman has died as a result of Trumps incitement to violence, which Country will he flee to to claim asylum? He’s toast, lots of republicans disgusted
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 06, 2021, 11:36:41 pm
If there's one lesson from tonight it is this.

When you allow and encourage a world of alternative "facts" and conspiracy theories, THIS is where it leads.

It is a wake up for everyone to start getting f**king serious about this and stop wallowing in listening only to what they want the truth to be.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on January 06, 2021, 11:44:02 pm
  If that lot had been in the US and not the UK, and if the Brexiteers had reacted differently to the insults and undermining of democracy that  that lot instigated and some of you lot took up the mantle of on here and social media sites, the same thing could have happened here.
   You lot and that lot pushed it to the limit here in in this country many ways.

Are you including Boris in your undermining of democracy, given that he voted against Brexit numerous times?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on January 06, 2021, 11:49:05 pm
Articles of impeachment reportedly being drawn up, Pence is being urged to invoke the 25th Amendment to remove him. Either way is there any way he isn't turfed out of office now?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 06, 2021, 11:55:19 pm
MM
Pence has de facto taken over from Trump tonight. Apparently it was Pence, not Trump who instructed the National Guard to go in. That should have been the President's decision.

https://mobile.twitter.com/rgoodlaw/status/1346968204250378244
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Filo on January 07, 2021, 09:42:03 am
This woman wasn’t happy about how she was treated during her revolution
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Not Now Kato on January 07, 2021, 10:39:27 am
  If that lot had been in the US and not the UK, and if the Brexiteers had reacted differently to the insults and undermining of democracy that  that lot instigated and some of you lot took up the mantle of on here and social media sites, the same thing could have happened here.
   You lot and that lot pushed it to the limit here in in this country many ways.

Are you including Boris in your undermining of democracy, given that he voted against Brexit numerous times?

Don't forget Mogg and the rest of the ERG, Glyn.  I think it's time selby took the blinkers off.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: wilts rover on January 07, 2021, 01:03:56 pm
  If that lot had been in the US and not the UK, and if the Brexiteers had reacted differently to the insults and undermining of democracy that  that lot instigated and some of you lot took up the mantle of on here and social media sites, the same thing could have happened here.
   You lot and that lot pushed it to the limit here in in this country many ways.

Are you including Boris in your undermining of democracy, given that he voted against Brexit numerous times?

Don't forget Mogg and the rest of the ERG, Glyn.  I think it's time selby took the blinkers off.

You mean Jacob Rees Mogg - the bloke who said there should be TWO referendums I presume?

https://twitter.com/jamesmelville/status/1070632545077858304?lang=en

And that Farage bloke:

https://twitter.com/nigel_farage/status/951400764697653248?lang=en

Selby better put them on his list. Wonder why he left them off in the first place?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 07, 2021, 01:35:25 pm
So, back in 2016, when we already knew that Trump was a dangerous, unhinged sociopath, a Republican-leaning general said it was safe to elect him because if he tried to do anything dangerous, the grown ups would stop him.  I recall reading that and thinking that promising a de facto coup d'etat as a means of reassuring us that it was safe to elect Trump was...let's say unusual.

But I'm guessing that is what is happening now. The Republican party will not impeach him, or invoke Article 25 because they are scared of losing the support of the rednecks who love Trump. But, hopefully, they have locked him in a room and kept him away from the nuclear football. If they have, that is a de facto coup.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: selby on January 07, 2021, 01:46:26 pm
  What have you and your mates got on Kato a bucket? I bet you drive a car that only turns left.
   I have to apologise to those of you who are that big headed you can't get a bucket on.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on January 07, 2021, 02:01:45 pm
Selby, you excel yourself. I honestly thought you couldn't make yourself look any more ridiculous, but I was wrong. Well done!
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on January 07, 2021, 02:15:02 pm
Sorry for supporting fascism, armed fascist coups and white nationalist terrorism are inexcusable whatever your political views and I see that now
Fixed that for you Selby. Assume this is what you meant, otherwise it seems like you're a big fascist.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Dutch Uncle on January 07, 2021, 03:13:08 pm
I often try and stay away from saying controversial things, but for Trump I will make an exception.

He has massively overplayed his hand last night. He has lost a lot of important support, but more importantly another consequence IMHO is that the equation regarding whether to prosecute him after he leaves office or not has changed. There was at least some feeling (which I disagree with) that prosecuting him might be more divisive for the nation than it was worth. Now surely the new administration’s Attorney General has to bring the most serious charges. That would also mean co-conspirators, including his children and son-in-law will also face charges, and hopefully thus bar any of them from ever seeking office?

Trump’s shenanigans in Georgia also lost the Republicans the Senate, and now at least for the first two years, until the mid-terms, the new Administration should be able to pass laws to close the loopholes that allowed Trump to get so far, and better protect US democracy from a future presumably far smarter would-be dictator.   

So, sadly, while the loss of 4 lives is definitely tragic, maybe if this means the future of democracy in the US is better protected as a result, then maybe not a disastrous outcome. Far more (surely in the hundreds of thousands) have lost their lives purely through Trump’s self-serving handling of the pandemic. 

Other democracies should take note, particularly as BST points out, of the consequences of allowing a leader to propagate alternate realities to masses.

Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 07, 2021, 03:32:37 pm
Good luck America. I think you're going to need it.

https://mobile.twitter.com/antoguerrera/status/1347082094560882688

1 in 5 supports the storming of the Capitol. Nearly 50% of Republicans.

My God.

I never understood how Hitler was able to come to power when he was so obviously evil and unhinged. THIS is how. When people prefer to believe the alternative universe of facts that makes a patriotic virtue out of criminality and sedition.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Donnywolf on January 07, 2021, 04:28:06 pm
I find it quite strange reading Twitter that as many as 52% of the Electorate felt that there was "enough" fraud in the Presedential Election to have affected the result

I move on offering no other comment other than - get a different system maybe - removing the Electoral College system with a simple popular vote system.

However having said that if people think (or think after being told) that the electoral sytem is "rigged" I dont suppose however the result is arrived at will be believed

Maybe Rock Paper Scissors at the Half Time Show every 4th Superbowl ?


 
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on January 07, 2021, 04:46:17 pm
I find it quite strange reading Twitter that as many as 52% of the Electorate felt that there was &quot;enough&quot; fraud in the Presedential Election to have affected the result

I move on offering no other comment other than - get a different system maybe - removing the Electoral College system with a simple popular vote system.

However having said that if people think (or think after being told) that the electoral sytem is &quot;rigged&quot; I dont suppose however the result is arrived at will be believed

Maybe Rock Paper Scissors at the Half Time Show every 4th Superbowl ?


 

I don't think changing from a college system to a direct election would have stopped Trump from crying fraud in the slightest.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: wilts rover on January 07, 2021, 04:51:02 pm
Anyone thinking those people are outcasts or marginal to society should also think again.

Interview with the President of the Chicago’s Fraternal Order of Police Lodge:

https://twitter.com/ChipMitchell1/status/1347207462097715200

Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: ravenrover on January 07, 2021, 05:10:43 pm
So 3 people died and 1 person was shot dead, wonder what the stats would have been if the protestors had been predominantly black?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Filo on January 07, 2021, 05:22:31 pm
Although its sad that a woman got shot dead, what did she expect would happen if the tried to break into the chamber with armed Secret Service agents behind the doors? She followed the mob, incited by Trump and paid the ultimate price for it
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: wilts rover on January 07, 2021, 06:40:43 pm
Ex USAF veteran

https://news.sky.com/story/ashli-babbitt-trump-supporter-shot-dead-in-capitol-was-air-force-veteran-12181190
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Ldr on January 07, 2021, 06:52:40 pm
Act stupid, expect pain....
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Superspy on January 07, 2021, 09:47:38 pm
"Play stupid games, win stupid prizes" could have basically been the slogan for US politics for the last 4 years culminating in this shit-show. Here's hoping, as DU said above, that now the Dem's hold all of the power (for the first time in a while) they can use it for the greater good.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on January 07, 2021, 10:29:26 pm
And the enablers we should thank ........

''Labour pointed to interviews in which Boris Johnson said Trump was as worthy of the Nobel peace prize as Barack Obama and described him as a standard New York liberal. In 2018 Johnson said: “I am increasingly admiring of Donald Trump. I have become more and more convinced that there is method in his madness.” Photos of Michael Gove, the now Cabinet Office minister and prominent Brexit campaigner, grinning thumbs-up alongside the president caught the initial mood''

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/07/tory-party-leaders-back-pedal-on-trump-after-us-congress-chaos
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 08, 2021, 12:23:38 am
Sydney

Those are quotes that we should never forget.

The rats now abandoning the good ship Trump, saying "Well I never expected him to go THAT far" are a disgrace. It's been obvious from day one that it would end in this way. Anyone who claims otherwise has either had their eyes closed, or were prepared to ride the Trump tiger when they thought it benefited them, intending to jump off when it started devouring everything around it. Either way they are a disgrace to politics. We should never forget those who expressed support and admiration for the biggest criminal lunatic ever to have taken power in America and we should judge them by those actions.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on January 08, 2021, 01:52:14 am
Trump has finally, through gritted teeth, conceded, it looks like. Probably a last ditch effort to avoid getting hoyed out by the impending impeachment proceedings.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Donnywolf on January 08, 2021, 06:45:33 am
I still find it incredible that he got 70 million people to support him in the Presedential Election. To me a mere outsider from another "democracy" he seems quite mad and didnt ever seem to me to be the Leader of the free world as I have experienced in former Presidents whether Dem or Rep

He seemed to be President of a very small "world" and still in fact does. I have been staggered that he could come on TV / Twitter and seemingly incite the march on the Capitol building whether he wanted what happened later to happen. He then "called them off" but made sure he wove in the words "we had the election stolen - we won - by a landslide in fact - and everyone knows it"

I cannot ever recall anything that seems as far out as that statement although yesterday I saw a poll that said 52% of the Electorate thought the result had been altered by "cheating" which seems strange and probably wrong but I cant find it any more

I would have thought it would be getting on for 60 to 66 % of voters who would have thought the result fair and involved no cheating - then today he has said he will hand over power in an orderly way and all those who ransacked the Capitol were criticised by him and those who committed crime would be punished ? Really ? So that was 3 different stances in less than 48 hours.

In response to the 2 posts above - I think what he has done since the last vote was cast is not concede at all and I am afraid he is never going to and his latest speech I would be wary of. We have seen what he could do and has done and he seems as cunning as they come so is that "latest broadcast" a way to buy time so he isnt thrown out bedore he gets to his last ditch "play" cos I dont know

The one good thing is that surely with the Rats (belatedly) leaving the ship and what a large swathe of the Electorate have now seen and distanced themselves from might just MIGHT prevent him rerunning on 2024 - or will it ? The Rats may well have justified their support by saying "I didnt think he would go that far" but in truth why?

I thought he seemed "quite mad" for a President right from the start of his tenure and all it needed was for them to look at a mere Forum of a Football Club 3000+ from the USA and read what we have been saying all that time. And we were largely bystanders with no votes but certainly had credible views in the main as do the posters on various other Forums you choose to look at be they Football, Aircraft spotting, Bird watching, Home Brewing or any other thing you choose to look at  because most of the free world were telling them for years.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Ldr on January 08, 2021, 08:11:18 am
If you ignore the 2 coasts, america is populated by paranoid redneck hicks.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Filo on January 08, 2021, 08:21:37 am
Trump has finally, through gritted teeth, conceded, it looks like. Probably a last ditch effort to avoid getting hoyed out by the impending impeachment proceedings.


And after inciting the disorder he has now thrown them all under the bus, like he has with anyone he fell out with throughout his whole term, he’s now trying to save his own neck, a long jail term is staring at him
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on January 08, 2021, 08:57:55 am
all fingers crossed Filo
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 08, 2021, 10:14:39 am
His legal team has obviously finally got through to him and told him he is facing sedition charges unless he reads the following script.

He looked like a hostage reading out a statement prepared by his kidnappers.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on January 08, 2021, 01:11:16 pm
Trump has finally, through gritted teeth, conceded, it looks like. Probably a last ditch effort to avoid getting hoyed out by the impending impeachment proceedings.

And after inciting the disorder he has now thrown them all under the bus, like he has with anyone he fell out with throughout his whole term, he’s now trying to save his own neck, a long jail term is staring at him

What's the betting he'll try and pardon himself - as well as all the rioters - before he gets hoiked out of office?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: drfchound on January 08, 2021, 01:46:05 pm
Trump has gone on record as condemning the rioters so it would be awkward for him to now pardon them.
He has already told them that they will be punished.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: River Don on January 08, 2021, 01:56:47 pm
Apparently there is anger amongst Trump loyalists who are just realising that he marched them up the hill... And now he's threatening to prosecute them for doing just what he asked of them.

You've got to laugh.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Filo on January 08, 2021, 02:18:41 pm
Apparently there is anger amongst Trump loyalists who are just realising that he marched them up the hill... And now he's threatening to prosecute them for doing just what he asked of them.

You've got to laugh.

Like I said, saving his own skin, everyone else is expendable in his little game
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on January 08, 2021, 02:56:38 pm
Trump has gone on record as condemning the rioters so it would be awkward for him to now pardon them.
He has already told them that they will be punished.
He's also gone on record as saying he loves them and they're very special. His condemnation was piss-weak and the bare minimum that he thinks he needs to do to avoid getting dragged out of office and slung in jail.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: drfchound on January 08, 2021, 02:59:58 pm
Trump has gone on record as condemning the rioters so it would be awkward for him to now pardon them.
He has already told them that they will be punished.
He&#039;s also gone on record as saying he loves them and they&#039;re very special. His condemnation was piss-weak and the bare minimum that he thinks he needs to do to avoid getting dragged out of office and slung in jail.






Did he say that the rioters were special and that he loves them since the riots though.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on January 08, 2021, 03:02:23 pm
Trump has gone on record as condemning the rioters so it would be awkward for him to now pardon them.
He has already told them that they will be punished.

It didn't stopped him handing pardons out left right and centre to those who were 'the worst people in the world' when they got caught and convicted.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on January 08, 2021, 03:03:32 pm
Trump has gone on record as condemning the rioters so it would be awkward for him to now pardon them.
He has already told them that they will be punished.
He&#039;s also gone on record as saying he loves them and they&#039;re very special. His condemnation was piss-weak and the bare minimum that he thinks he needs to do to avoid getting dragged out of office and slung in jail.






Did he say that the rioters were special and that he loves them since the riots though.
I mean, he said it while it was happening, which is arguably worse.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: drfchound on January 08, 2021, 03:05:13 pm
Trump has gone on record as condemning the rioters so it would be awkward for him to now pardon them.
He has already told them that they will be punished.
He&#039;s also gone on record as saying he loves them and they&#039;re very special. His condemnation was piss-weak and the bare minimum that he thinks he needs to do to avoid getting dragged out of office and slung in jail.






Did he say that the rioters were special and that he loves them since the riots though.
I mean, he said it while it was happening, which is arguably worse.






Ok, cheers, I didn’t hear that.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on January 08, 2021, 03:21:10 pm
Trump has gone on record as condemning the rioters so it would be awkward for him to now pardon them.
He has already told them that they will be punished.
He&#039;s also gone on record as saying he loves them and they&#039;re very special. His condemnation was piss-weak and the bare minimum that he thinks he needs to do to avoid getting dragged out of office and slung in jail.






Did he say that the rioters were special and that he loves them since the riots though.
I mean, he said it while it was happening, which is arguably worse.






Ok, cheers, I didn’t hear that.
No worries. It was in a video posted on his Twitter. I think it's one of the reason Twitter and Facebook banned him, because he was obviously inflaming the situation.

It's only now, presumably after someone sat him down and told him that he's actually in real trouble, he's taking a different tone.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Filo on January 08, 2021, 03:33:05 pm
Trump has gone on record as condemning the rioters so it would be awkward for him to now pardon them.
He has already told them that they will be punished.
He&#039;s also gone on record as saying he loves them and they&#039;re very special. His condemnation was piss-weak and the bare minimum that he thinks he needs to do to avoid getting dragged out of office and slung in jail.






Did he say that the rioters were special and that he loves them since the riots though.
I mean, he said it while it was happening, which is arguably worse.






Ok, cheers, I didn’t hear that.
No worries. It was in a video posted on his Twitter. I think it's one of the reason Twitter and Facebook banned him, because he was obviously inflaming the situation.

It's only now, presumably after someone sat him down and told him that he's actually in real trouble, he's taking a different tone.

I think they’ve sent him to his room and took his phone off him as punishment
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on January 08, 2021, 03:48:09 pm
Er, maybe not Filo.


Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
·
2m
Disruptive
73%
To all of those who have asked, I will not be going to the Inauguration on January 20th.
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
·
1h
Disruptive
73%
The 75,000,000 great American Patriots who voted for me, AMERICA FIRST, and MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN, will have a GIANT VOICE long into the future. They will not be disrespected or treated unfairly in any way, shape or form!!!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1347569870578266115?s=20
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Sprotyrover on January 08, 2021, 06:38:24 pm
Nothing will come of this, the Democrats are bricking themselves the likes of Nancy Pelosi would love to String him up the Problem is those 75 Million Machine gun totting idiots who support him.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on January 08, 2021, 06:53:56 pm
Er, maybe not Filo.


Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
·
2m
Disruptive
73%
To all of those who have asked, I will not be going to the Inauguration on January 20th.
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
·
1h
Disruptive
73%
The 75,000,000 great American Patriots who voted for me, AMERICA FIRST, and MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN, will have a GIANT VOICE long into the future. They will not be disrespected or treated unfairly in any way, shape or form!!!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1347569870578266115?s=20


No doubt his followers will be 'attending' it with Donald promising he'll be marching there with them again...

Mind you, it all depends whether you're daft enough to believe a fecking word the t**t says.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 08, 2021, 06:57:17 pm
As I was saying a few weeks ago.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/01/08/politics/house-speaker-joint-chiefs-milley/index.html
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Filo on January 08, 2021, 08:16:39 pm
I wonder if he’s planning to flee the Country before he’s arrested
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 08, 2021, 11:04:26 pm
Here's the comedy moment of the insurrection.

This bell end died of a heart attack at the Capitol. Induced by the fact that he was carrying a Taser. It went off accidentally while he was trying to steal a painting in the Capitol and tasered him in the knackers.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ConnorASheets/status/1347253411335589888

Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on January 09, 2021, 12:07:26 am
Trump's just been permanently banned from Twitter.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Not Now Kato on January 09, 2021, 08:52:14 am
Trump's just been permanently banned from Twitter.

No more tweeting from the orange one. He's also had his Facebook and Instagram accounts closed indefinitely. Google has withdrawn the Parler app from their Play Store and Apple have threatened to do the same if Parler, (the main area used to coordinate the action taken the other day), don't remove offending posts and put better controls in place.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Not Now Kato on January 09, 2021, 10:40:12 am
A look into the future....
 
https://twitter.com/paulleeteeks/status/1337502815464263681?lang=en
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on January 09, 2021, 03:33:29 pm
Trump's just been permanently banned from Twitter.

An interesting point made on one of the US news channels (I forget which one) - Trump's seemingly innocent tweet saying he won't be attending the inauguration - after the more aggressive tweet he made before - could very easily be construed by those he's REALLY messaging as saying that it would be safe for them to target the inauguration because he wouldn't be there in the firing line. Which does make sense.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Donnywolf on January 09, 2021, 05:53:53 pm
He's doing the USA and politics in general no favours whatsoever is he ?

What a pathetic man he is looking to the (thankfully) 81,282,903 voters who voted against him and a lot of dare I say "sane" people all over the world - although that does of course show which camp I am in

Not neccessarily the Biden camp just the not Trump camp
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: silent majority on January 09, 2021, 06:27:33 pm
If you're up for a long and insightful read on Trumps speech, then try Seth here. It's excellent by the way!

https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/1347972187131670531
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Superspy on January 10, 2021, 01:08:52 pm
Thanks for posting that SM, I've just read it from the tweet you linked through to the end (didn't feel the need to go back to the beginning). The whole speech by trump was even worse than I thought. Scary stuff.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 11, 2021, 11:45:55 am
https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1348549252671299584

Tough one here.

Part of me says that it is vital for the future of democracy that people who were duped by Trump, or who chose to be enablers for him have the strength of character to come out and admit they were wrong and start to address this huge threat to democracy for what it is.

Part of me says, "f**k you Morgan. Either you knew all along what he was like, and you rode the tiger for the ratings. Or you didn't see what was f**king obvious, in which case what sort of useless waste of space as a journalist are you. Either way, you are a threat to democracy and you are part of the problem, not the solution.

Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 11, 2021, 01:50:12 pm
Just a reflection in where the Republican party currently is.

5 days ago, a Republican President openly and deliberately invited a mob to storm the Capitol, saying that the Senators would need to "be brave" if they were to resist doing what Trump wanted them to do.

That's open incitement for the mob to go and wreak violence on Senators.

It's now known that only the nous and courage of a handful of police managed to divert the mob while the Senate was evacuated. Literally, seconds after the last Senator had been taken to safety, a mob which had beaten and killed policemen broke into the chamber.

Now get this.

Senior Republicans are saying they will not vote to remove Trump "because it would be divisive".

Damn f**king right it is time to be divisive. Draw a clear, thick line between those who 100% support democracy and those who turn a blind eye to violent sedition.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: selby on January 11, 2021, 02:45:49 pm
What are you going to do with our lot such as Grieve, Starmer, Soubry, Lord Adonis etc then, what Line are you drawing for that lot a squigly one no doubt.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Hounslowrover on January 11, 2021, 03:01:09 pm
What are you going to do with our lot such as Grieve, Starmer, Soubry, Lord Adonis etc then, what Line are you drawing for that lot a squigly one no doubt.
I suppose they should be arrested too for inciting a mob to invade parliament and killing a policeman.  Oops, I got it wrong Selby! Haven’t you too?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: wilts rover on January 11, 2021, 04:04:37 pm
What are you going to do with our lot such as Grieve, Starmer, Soubry, Lord Adonis etc then, what Line are you drawing for that lot a squigly one no doubt.

People who organise a peacful march attended by a million people the same as those who cause a riot which led to death of two policemen and three members of the public.

When you try and claim false equivalence by equating peaceful process with incitement to riot - you have gone the wrong side of any line.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 11, 2021, 04:15:55 pm
Selby

There are organisations in the USA currently planning to get 1 million people to descend on Washington DC next week with exhortations being sent out to "Execute Pelosi."

And you consider this to be a topic for ribbing people about Brexit?

You are so far beneath contempt it is beyond words.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on January 11, 2021, 05:43:57 pm
What are you going to do with our lot such as Grieve, Starmer, Soubry, Lord Adonis etc then, what Line are you drawing for that lot a squigly one no doubt.
Interesting you haven't once expressed a view on the actual fascists and white supremacists trying to overthrow the government in a violent coup. If you support these fascists, just own up and say it instead of trying to hide behind these false equivalences you keep drawing.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Janso on January 11, 2021, 05:56:44 pm
Mad that people keep rising to this absolute sad act whose life revolves around trying to get a bite out of strangers on the internet.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: selby on January 11, 2021, 06:07:35 pm
  We agree on something Billy, I also think the USA is filled with a bunch of idiots, it just doesn't bother me, ignoring how close some remainers came to overturning the will of the electorate and encouraged mass protests in our capital and the damage caused by them in Trafalgar Square and other parts of London, and the encouragement of civil unrest in this country does though.
  I do see now near if we had not policed the situation better we could have fallen into the same turmoil, which you choose not to because the people causing the problem had your sympathy and backing.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 11, 2021, 06:15:19 pm
Selby

I was on the march in London in October 2019. It was peaceful, good natured, good humoured.

You are a f**king idiot if you compare it to what happened in Washington.

You seem to actively WANT the people you disagree with to be violent insurrectionists, despite the total lack of evidence of that. Your "Well if THIS had happened or if THAT had happened, maybe the Remain supporters would have broken into Parliament, killing police and looking to lynch Rees-Mogg" suggestions of equivalence are beyond contemptible. Grow up you bloody fool.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: wilts rover on January 11, 2021, 06:51:32 pm
With apologies to Selby - back onto the real nutters:

https://twitter.com/ScottMStedman/status/1348466114209071106
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on January 11, 2021, 07:16:37 pm
Mad that people keep rising to this absolute sad act whose life revolves around trying to get a bite out of strangers on the internet.
You're right. It's true that he's a bad troll and normally I would ignore, but this is scary stuff he's playing about with here. He knows full well an MP was murdered in the brexit campaign by someone spouting this kind of shit and he still carries on. His side can do no wrong even when it includes fascists. Needs calling out in this case IMO.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 13, 2021, 12:27:20 am
Interesting!

The Republican party bigwigs seem to be moving towards supporting the impeachment of Trump.

Should be a non-question of course, but until now they have been cowed by him.

But tonight, the Republican Senate Leader has said Trump committed "impeachable offences". If he's on board, I assume a lot of the less batshit Republican Senators will be too.

And one of the leading Republicans in the House of Representatives has tonight said she will vote for impeachment tomorrow.

Let's see if more of them can find where they left their consciences.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 13, 2021, 01:28:56 am
Meanwhile.

This very evening, metal detectors have been installed at the Capitol to stop folk wandering in tooled up.

Several Republican Congressmen and women have refused to go through the checks.

Because...?

Draw the f**king dots.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 13, 2021, 09:28:56 am
Interesting!

The Republican party bigwigs seem to be moving towards supporting the impeachment of Trump.

Should be a non-question of course, but until now they have been cowed by him.

But tonight, the Republican Senate Leader has said Trump committed &quot;impeachable offences&quot;. If he's on board, I assume a lot of the less batshit Republican Senators will be too.

And one of the leading Republicans in the House of Representatives has tonight said she will vote for impeachment tomorrow.

Let's see if more of them can find where they left their consciences.
https://mobile.twitter.com/jmartNYT/status/1349135747132092418

Christ! I actually am beginning to think they are going to do it.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on January 13, 2021, 01:34:10 pm
We've been here before with these spineless Republicans, BST. They'll umm and ahh and say they're "concerned", but when the chips are down they back Trump every time. Call me a cynic but I don't see this going through.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 13, 2021, 01:37:23 pm
Probably right MM. Perish the thought that they are virtue signalling snowflakes.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on January 13, 2021, 05:06:47 pm
We've been here before with these spineless Republicans, BST. They'll umm and ahh and say they're &quot;concerned&quot;, but when the chips are down they back Trump every time. Call me a cynic but I don't see this going through.

McConnell loves Congress, he's never even thought of trying for the Presidency. The attack on the Capitol has enfuriated him because it's an institution he deeply believes in and he also blames Trump for losing the two seats in Georgia and therefore losing McConnell's status as Senate Leader. He can now see a great opportunity of getting rid of Trump from the Republican party and starting with a clean slate - because otherwise Trump is going to hang round the GOP like an extremely bad smell, probably making it more difficult for them to win any seats back.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on January 13, 2021, 05:39:24 pm
The reports of McConnell being open to impeachment are surprising, but still, I think we all underestimate how many of these Republican senators are either f**king insane, or spineless enough to tag along with the loud insane ones. Trump insulted Ted Cruz's wife and dead father, and Cruz still works the phones for him and supports his man like a good boy. I think there are enough of these to fall short of the 2/3rd majority needed, and the rest will fall into line once they see it's not going to pass. They know a decent number of the Republican voters are Trump cultists. Get rid of Trump, and that voter base goes with him.

I would love to be wrong, mind you.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on January 13, 2021, 06:19:12 pm
Further to this, impeachment has passed the house now. Out of 211 republicans, just 5 voted for it. I'd be staggered if it got a 2/3rd senate majority.

E: Apologies, it's advanced to the debate stage, it hasn't passed the house. My mistake. You'd still expect the numbers to stay largely the same, though.

Edit again: also McConnell's office is now refusing to hold an impeachment trial until the 19th - the day before the inauguration. Spineless.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: ravenrover on January 13, 2021, 06:58:40 pm
I see that his latest speech has been seen by the media as a threat in regards to him being impeached, there is a lot of hate and anger out there he says, it's the biggest witch hunt in presidential history according to him
Stoking the fires sgain?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on January 13, 2021, 07:18:15 pm
Poor Donald, he's always the victim.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 13, 2021, 09:33:47 pm
So the American Presidency has existed for 238 years.

In that time there have been 4 impeachments of Presidents.

Trump has half of those...
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Metalmicky on January 13, 2021, 09:46:48 pm
Although being Trump he'll play it as "the biggest and best impeachment ever...."   :lol:
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 13, 2021, 10:00:10 pm
Many Republican Congressmen and women say they are against impeachment because it will only increase division.

Yep, you don't imoech a President who encouraged sedition because it might upset folk.

Meanwhile, one Republican congressman by gave a speech while wearing a mask with the words, "This mask is as useless as my (Democrat) State Governor" written on it.

That should start the healing process.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on January 13, 2021, 10:34:44 pm
A whopping 10 House Republicans voted to impeach, out of 200-odd.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 13, 2021, 10:39:20 pm
And you were right MM. McConnell has block the Senate sitting to try Trump quickly. And is back pedalling on his reported comments about supporting impeachment.

I've done it again. Assumed the Right had finally found its moral compass, and ended up looking the naive idiot.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: MachoMadness on January 13, 2021, 10:56:32 pm
And you were right MM. McConnell has block the Senate sitting to try Trump quickly. And is back pedalling on his reported comments about supporting impeachment.

I've done it again. Assumed the Right had finally found its moral compass, and ended up looking the naive idiot.
His reasoning is quite something though innit? Impeaching Trump for inciting insurrection might end up inciting another attempted insurrection. I wonder what other crimes he could get away with using that logic. He once famously said he could walk out on 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and not lose any votes, looks like he meant within the Republican party as well as with his voter base.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 13, 2021, 11:00:04 pm
Don't gang up on the bully because he might lash out.

That sounds like a philosophy!

You do wonder if any of these "leaders" have ever read any entry-level history books.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on January 14, 2021, 10:48:59 am
The similarities are uncanny, just watched the first episode and it's as though the orange baby had based his blueprint for his power grab on Hitler.

''The Rise of the Nazis''

https://www.pbs.org/show/rise-nazis/
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 14, 2021, 11:07:20 am
I watched that 3 years ago Sydney. You could close your eyes and replace "Hitler" with "Trump" and it was chillingly similar.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Filo on January 14, 2021, 12:06:42 pm
Trump turning on Guilinani now, this might get interesting
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 16, 2021, 01:47:32 am
I won't breathe easily until that t**t is removed from the White House in 5 days time. So I don't know whether to laugh at or be scared by this news.

The head of the biggest bed company in America. Meeting with Trump. And being photographed with a sheaf of notes that appear to have a plan on how to invoke the Insurrection Act and impose martial law.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jabinbotsford/status/1350186100564905985
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Not Now Kato on January 16, 2021, 12:02:35 pm
Donny's on a charge to get a couple of things done before he leaves, (that's if he leaves of course  ;) )
 
https://projects.propublica.org/trump-midnight-regulations/
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: silent majority on January 16, 2021, 12:28:50 pm
Donny's on a charge to get a couple of things done before he leaves, (that's if he leaves of course  ;) )
 
https://projects.propublica.org/trump-midnight-regulations/

Some of those law changes are shocking!
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 16, 2021, 12:44:14 pm
Doubtless there will be some serious backhanders going on there.

Trump has never in his life lifted a finger for anyone without having his palm greased.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: drfchound on January 16, 2021, 01:43:02 pm
Won’t the Biden administration be able to change things back to how they when they get full control?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 16, 2021, 01:54:27 pm
Read the article Hound.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: drfchound on January 16, 2021, 02:09:54 pm
BST, I did.
It says that Biden and co. will freeze pending rules.
NNK said that Trumps people were rushing things through before his terms ends.
That indicates that the stuff being rushed through will have gone through and not be pending.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 16, 2021, 02:15:44 pm
Hound.

Sorry. My mistake. Read it CAREFULLY.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: drfchound on January 16, 2021, 02:21:41 pm
BST.
I am very busy trying to get things done before watching the game.
I did a speed read (which is what you often use yourself) which is unusual because I rarely read links posted by some of our posters.
So, going back to my original question, does it really matter what gets done in the next few days because it will just be undone wont it.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 16, 2021, 06:07:29 pm
Hound.

It says clearly, just above  the bit you quoted, that these laws " may tie the hands of the incoming president" a d just below it says that 50 laws have been finalised meaning "Rule Finalized
50
Rule is in effect or set to take effect, making it harder for the next administration to undo".
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: drfchound on January 16, 2021, 08:18:55 pm
Hound.

It says clearly, just above  the bit you quoted, that these laws " may tie the hands of the incoming president" a d just below it says that 50 laws have been finalised meaning "Rule Finalized
50
Rule is in effect or set to take effect, making it harder for the next administration to undo".






So, harder for the next administration to undo......but not impossible to be undone.
So thanks for confirming then that the changes made this week can be undone later.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Janso on January 16, 2021, 08:30:11 pm
Hound.

It says clearly, just above  the bit you quoted, that these laws " may tie the hands of the incoming president" a d just below it says that 50 laws have been finalised meaning "Rule Finalized
50
Rule is in effect or set to take effect, making it harder for the next administration to undo".






So, harder for the next administration to undo......but not impossible to be undone.
So thanks for confirming then that the changes made this week can be undone later.

That then eats into time and resources that could be doing other things though.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: drfchound on January 16, 2021, 08:31:30 pm
Hound.

It says clearly, just above  the bit you quoted, that these laws " may tie the hands of the incoming president" a d just below it says that 50 laws have been finalised meaning "Rule Finalized
50
Rule is in effect or set to take effect, making it harder for the next administration to undo".






So, harder for the next administration to undo......but not impossible to be undone.
So thanks for confirming then that the changes made this week can be undone later.

That then eats into time and resources that could be doing other things though.





Oh, I agree but that isn’t what I was talking about.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Not Now Kato on January 17, 2021, 01:15:42 pm
Hound.

It says clearly, just above  the bit you quoted, that these laws " may tie the hands of the incoming president" a d just below it says that 50 laws have been finalised meaning "Rule Finalized
50
Rule is in effect or set to take effect, making it harder for the next administration to undo".






So, harder for the next administration to undo......but not impossible to be undone.
So thanks for confirming then that the changes made this week can be undone later.

Won't be of much help to anyone who is executed in the mean time hound!
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: drfchound on January 17, 2021, 01:20:16 pm
Hound.

It says clearly, just above  the bit you quoted, that these laws " may tie the hands of the incoming president" a d just below it says that 50 laws have been finalised meaning "Rule Finalized
50
Rule is in effect or set to take effect, making it harder for the next administration to undo".






So, harder for the next administration to undo......but not impossible to be undone.
So thanks for confirming then that the changes made this week can be undone later.

Won't be of much help to anyone who is executed in the mean time hound!





Totally different scenario.
You might as well include people who get run over and killed.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Not Now Kato on January 17, 2021, 01:22:55 pm
Hound.

It says clearly, just above  the bit you quoted, that these laws " may tie the hands of the incoming president" a d just below it says that 50 laws have been finalised meaning "Rule Finalized
50
Rule is in effect or set to take effect, making it harder for the next administration to undo".






So, harder for the next administration to undo......but not impossible to be undone.
So thanks for confirming then that the changes made this week can be undone later.

Won't be of much help to anyone who is executed in the mean time hound!





Totally different scenario.
You might as well include people who get run over and killed.

Why?  The orange one hasn't passed a law about people having to be run over!  Or are you just being a WUM for the sake of it?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: drfchound on January 17, 2021, 01:27:21 pm
Hound.

It says clearly, just above  the bit you quoted, that these laws " may tie the hands of the incoming president" a d just below it says that 50 laws have been finalised meaning "Rule Finalized
50
Rule is in effect or set to take effect, making it harder for the next administration to undo".






So, harder for the next administration to undo......but not impossible to be undone.
So thanks for confirming then that the changes made this week can be undone later.

Won't be of much help to anyone who is executed in the mean time hound!





Totally different scenario.
You might as well include people who get run over and killed.

Why?  The orange one hasn't passed a law about people having to be run over!  Or are you just being a WUM for the sake of it?





I have no idea what you are getting at or why.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Not Now Kato on January 17, 2021, 01:37:30 pm
Hound.

It says clearly, just above  the bit you quoted, that these laws " may tie the hands of the incoming president" a d just below it says that 50 laws have been finalised meaning "Rule Finalized
50
Rule is in effect or set to take effect, making it harder for the next administration to undo".






So, harder for the next administration to undo......but not impossible to be undone.
So thanks for confirming then that the changes made this week can be undone later.

Won't be of much help to anyone who is executed in the mean time hound!





Totally different scenario.
You might as well include people who get run over and killed.

Why?  The orange one hasn't passed a law about people having to be run over!  Or are you just being a WUM for the sake of it?





I have no idea what you are getting at or why.

You obviously didn't read the content of the link posted hound.  One of Trumps new 'rulings' was to bring forward executions for those on death row, (currently the death penalty had been suspended). One person has already been executed following Trumps action and more are to follow!
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Not Now Kato on January 17, 2021, 03:49:39 pm
Meanwhile, back in the land of the free....
 
https://thebulwark.com/after-white-house-meeting-with-trump-mike-lindell-calls-for-military-coup-on-facebook/
 
God help America!
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: drfchound on January 17, 2021, 04:26:28 pm
Hound.

It says clearly, just above  the bit you quoted, that these laws " may tie the hands of the incoming president" a d just below it says that 50 laws have been finalised meaning "Rule Finalized
50
Rule is in effect or set to take effect, making it harder for the next administration to undo".






So, harder for the next administration to undo......but not impossible to be undone.
So thanks for confirming then that the changes made this week can be undone later.

Won't be of much help to anyone who is executed in the mean time hound!





Totally different scenario.
You might as well include people who get run over and killed.

Why?  The orange one hasn't passed a law about people having to be run over!  Or are you just being a WUM for the sake of it?





I have no idea what you are getting at or why.

You obviously didn't read the content of the link posted hound.  One of Trumps new 'rulings' was to bring forward executions for those on death row, (currently the death penalty had been suspended). One person has already been executed following Trumps action and more are to follow!






NNK, there are some links from some posters that I very rarely bother to read, especially on the political threads.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 17, 2021, 04:36:06 pm
Yet you comment on them. A strange approach.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: drfchound on January 17, 2021, 04:44:53 pm
BST, you really do try to make things out to be something else.
Originally I didn’t need to read the link that NNK posted about getting laws passed.
I simply said that they can be changed when the Biden administration comes in.
You confirmed that yourself, eventually.
Some of your disciples then came on the scene and it kind of snowballed from there as often is the case.
I have said many times that I don’t read all of the links posted by some of the posters on here and even when I do open them, invariably I skip through them and wonder why I ever bothered in the first place.
In one of your elongated messages to me recently you informed me that the tv news and newspapers were full of edited and filtered articles.
Most of the links posted by some of you on here are just that.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 17, 2021, 04:51:52 pm
Hound.
I didn't confirm what you said. Your interpretation of the text there was very different to mine. I read "tying hands" and "making it harder to rescind" as meaning what they, to me, clearly say. And as others have said, how do you rescind a rushed execution?

Regarding the "long post" you refer to, I clearly set out what I think is the different levels of what and who you can trust. If you choose to opt out of reading fact-based articles (as opposed to opinion) from organisations with a track record of generally being truthful and honest, but then comment on the discussion around that, it seems an odd stance.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: drfchound on January 17, 2021, 04:57:48 pm
Hound.
I didn't confirm what you said. Your interpretation of the text there was very different to mine. I read "tying hands" and "making it harder to rescind" as meaning what they, to me, clearly say. And as others have said, how do you rescind a rushed execution?

Regarding the "long post" you refer to, I clearly set out what I think is the different levels of what and who you can trust. If you choose to opt out of reading fact-based articles (as opposed to opinion) from organisations with a track record of generally being truthful and honest, but then comment on the discussion around that, it seems an odd stance.






BST, I hadn’t got as far into that link to get to the part about executions, in indeed it was there.
I assume it was.
Just out of curiosity, wouldn’t the people being executed be on death row because, under USA law, had committed crimes worthy of a death sentence?
Just an observation there by the way.

With regards to the news feed information saga, I suppose Twitter is full of truthful and non questionable information.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 17, 2021, 05:30:21 pm
Hound.

Yes. But there is a ling and drawn out process to implementing the death penalty. And Biden has been a long-term opponent of it. So it is very likely that, if Trump hadn't rushed these decisions, the people who have been executed (who are overwhelmingly black - I'm sure that's a coincidence...) would eventually have had their sentences commuted.

With regards to your last sentence, I give up. If you are determined to play silly buggers and not actually read what I say then fill your boots. I truly do not understand someone who refuses to engage with what someone writes, but then has a strident opinion on it.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: drfchound on January 17, 2021, 07:13:37 pm
Hound.

Yes. But there is a ling and drawn out process to implementing the death penalty. And Biden has been a long-term opponent of it. So it is very likely that, if Trump hadn't rushed these decisions, the people who have been executed (who are overwhelmingly black - I'm sure that's a coincidence...) would eventually have had their sentences commuted.

With regards to your last sentence, I give up. If you are determined to play silly buggers and not actually read what I say then fill your boots. I truly do not understand someone who refuses to engage with what someone writes, but then has a strident opinion on it.






And I find it very odd that you deride news articles from tv and yet constantly post links to twitter which “confirm’ your biased points of view.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 17, 2021, 07:42:52 pm
I post factual evidence from people and organisations who have a long record of being truthful and honest. And who hold up their hands and correct themselves when they are shown to have made a mistake.

I deride any person or organisation that have a track record of lying or misrepresenting.

I treat any opinion piece with caution and I rarely post those.

Clear now?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Not Now Kato on January 17, 2021, 07:57:59 pm
Well one media company owns up to publishing Trumps lies....
 
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2021/01/statement.html
 
It's amazing how a potential law suit brings out the truth about the lies being peddled.  It's a pity that someone doesn't take some of our press to court for all the lies they publish!
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: ravenrover on January 17, 2021, 09:19:18 pm
I see he is off to his place in Florida on Wednesday morning. Speculation he has something planned as an alternative to the inauguration
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: drfchound on January 17, 2021, 11:11:15 pm
I post factual evidence from people and organisations who have a long record of being truthful and honest. And who hold up their hands and correct themselves when they are shown to have made a mistake.

I deride any person or organisation that have a track record of lying or misrepresenting.

I treat any opinion piece with caution and I rarely post those.

Clear now?






Those last two words..........a classic end to a BST post.
Always right ?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 17, 2021, 11:49:43 pm
Hound.

Well it obviously wasn't before.

And no, of course I'm not always right. But I do try to correct it when I'm wrong.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: ravenrover on January 18, 2021, 03:01:43 pm
Some deluded Trump followers asking for a pardon now they have been arrested for the Capitol invasion. "We only did what he told us to do and now I will have a police record and might go to jail"!
Only 1 person DJT cares about, the one he sees in the mirror
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: belton rover on January 18, 2021, 04:22:23 pm
Some deluded Trump followers asking for a pardon now they have been arrested for the Capitol invasion. &quot;We only did what he told us to do and now I will have a police record and might go to jail&quot;!
Only 1 person DJT cares about, the one he sees in the mirror

Thankfully, but not unexpectedly, his ‘supporters’ seem to be deserting the ship.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Not Now Kato on January 18, 2021, 04:28:21 pm
Capitol Building in Washington of full lockdown. No one allowed in or out!  WTF is going on over there?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on January 18, 2021, 04:33:50 pm
Only the ones who've been caught and are shitting themselves at the thought of getting jailtime.

Trump. The man who put the 'riot' into 'patriotism'.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on January 18, 2021, 04:36:23 pm
Capitol Building in Washington of full lockdown. No one allowed in or out!  WTF is going on over there?

The Michigan Capitol building was surrounded by 'protesters' yesterday. It wouldn't surprise me if this happened in other states now that Washington is being tightened up.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Not Now Kato on January 18, 2021, 04:58:25 pm
Only the ones who've been caught and are shitting themselves at the thought of getting jailtime.

Trump. The man who put the 'riot' into 'patriotism'.

Here's one guy who will be hoping for a pardon....
 
https://www.justice.gov/opa/page/file/1356006/download
 
Jon Schaffer, the founder and rhythm guitarist of Metallica-knock-off heavy metal band Iced Earth. Looks like the Department of Justice is going to throw the book at him.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 19, 2021, 01:18:19 am
Well. Scorched Earth policy it is as the man-child leaves the White House.

With the UK and Brazil dealing with dangerous new COVID variants, and with the USA already seeing 3000+ deaths a day from COVID, Trump signs an order to entirely open up travel from the UK and Brazil to the USA.

He's regularly commented on how Biden would get the plaudits for defeating COVID. This is a textbook Trump "f**k you, buster" move.

As I've said countless times, every time you think you've reached the base line of his sociopathic amorality...
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on January 19, 2021, 02:19:56 am
Well. Scorched Earth policy it is as the man-child leaves the White House.

With the UK and Brazil dealing with dangerous new COVID variants, and with the USA already seeing 3000+ deaths a day from COVID, Trump signs an order to entirely open up travel from the UK and Brazil to the USA.

He's regularly commented on how Biden would get the plaudits for defeating COVID. This is a textbook Trump &quot;f**k you, buster&quot; move.

As I've said countless times, every time you think you've reached the base line of his sociopathic amorality...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55713570
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: drfchound on January 19, 2021, 08:31:20 am
Trump is nuts.
It’s a good job that the incoming administration has decided to overturn that decision.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: ravenrover on January 19, 2021, 01:33:40 pm
Biden promptly killed that idea by saying the corridors would not be opened and that restrictions may in fact be tightened. Wonder Trump was hoping to flee to?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 19, 2021, 02:12:46 pm
Let's hope floating that batshit idea to open up the travel corridors is as insane as it gets in his final few hours. Be interesting to see which career crooks he gives pardons to today. He's already given pardons to the main three people who took the fall for him in the Mueller Inquiry. Classic mafia tactics. You take the fall to protect the Don. The Don looks after you.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 20, 2021, 07:01:01 pm
Bloody hell. He's gone!
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: belton rover on January 20, 2021, 07:06:46 pm
Well whaddayerknow!
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: drfchound on January 20, 2021, 07:07:09 pm
Did anyone get executed then.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 20, 2021, 07:09:52 pm
Did anyone get executed then.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-us-canada-55236260
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 20, 2021, 11:56:59 pm
I think this is what you call something like a return to sanity.

https://mobile.twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/1352034453166682112
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on January 21, 2021, 10:44:49 am
Rise of the Nazis, second prog and the parallels in how the German legal system was subverted, sidelined and the rise of the SS. I hope this impeachment is successful.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 21, 2021, 08:10:04 pm
This is a gem!

https://mobile.twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1351983558504579072
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: tyke1962 on January 21, 2021, 08:41:14 pm
So sleepy Joe comes to the rescue on a white horse  ....... as if .

He's got elected because Covid arrived and he isn't Trump , those are his credentials apparently .

Another four years of the Democrats doing feck all other than suck up to the giant corporations and great wealth then .

Doh .... that's how the US got Trump four years ago and 74 million are still with him .

Unless the Democrats put right the reasons Trump got elected and in four years time they have successfully put the US electorate in a postion that to vote Republican scares them to death then I'm afraid the last four years won't go away .

If you want to know where Biden actually stands with the low earner US voter then see if you can find Bernie Sanders anywhere near a top job under his administration .





Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on January 21, 2021, 09:17:44 pm
Aye, Chair of the Senate Budget Committee. Such a nothing job.

Unless you were expecting Sanders to resign from Congress at all?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: wilts rover on January 21, 2021, 09:24:53 pm
Biden has chosen Deb Haaland to lead the Dept of the Interior.

Haaland is the first American Indian to be in a Presidental Cabinet - and there is no group of voters that are any more low earners, in depravation, or fighting big corporations for their rights, than American Indians.

Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 21, 2021, 09:48:50 pm
Glyn.

Exactly.

Biden and Sanders were discussing a role for Sanders in Biden's cabinet. They decided that Sanders was better remaining in the Senate and giving the Democrats control, than risking losing a by-election.

Tyke. I've asked before. What exactly do you think a left-leaning politician can do to attract voters who voted for a criminal, treasonous, seditious, xenophobic rapist?

Specific policies.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Bentley Bullet on January 21, 2021, 10:59:40 pm
Because people who still support Trump don't believe he's those things.

It's like asking what a right-leaning politician can do to attract voters who voted for an antisemitic, communist, terrorist sympathiser.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on January 21, 2021, 11:57:28 pm
Arthur Askey has a lot to answer for.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 22, 2021, 12:23:36 am
BB. It is nothing like that. That is a very poor comparison for reasons I've explained several times before, but you keep on making it.

1) In Britain you don't vote for a PM. You vote for a party. The PM's freedom to implement policy is constrained by what he can get through Parliament. The Labour party MPs would have highly constrained the freedom of a PM Corbyn, because most of them vehemently disagreed with his foreign policy in particular.

That is not the case in the USA. You vote for a President who has huge executive powers, especially on foreign policy. There is far less constraint on him.

2) Then you look at the choice in an election. I've said before that the choice of which PM was going to be in power in 2019 was the worst in living memory. Even if you accept your caricature of Corbyn, the alternative was a career compulsive liar who was committed to what most people on the Left consider to be the most damaging policy to Britain's economic and foreign position in centuries. And whose party is in hoc to Russian gangster funding.

In America, the choice was between a competent if dull centrist politician (who isn't a paedophile, despite the obsessions of some on the Right) and a criminal, treasonous, seditious, xenophobic rapist. And 74 million still voted for the latter.

Tyke is wanting the centre-Left in America to win the hearts of those 74million. I'm asking him how? Personally, if, given the choice between Trump and Biden, they chose Trump, I do not see anything that a centre-Left party can do to ever win more than a handful of them back. The aim must be to neutralise their political effect by energising the 81million who rejected him. Get sensible politics back. And slowly let the demographic shift make a return to Trump's fascism become impossible.

If, as you say, Trump's supporters don't believe he is
a criminal, treasonous, seditious, xenophobic rapist, despite all the evidence, they are beyond reasoning with. And trying to reason with them is a fool's errand. They need to be contained, not understood, so they never wreak this damage on America again.

Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 22, 2021, 01:33:02 am
Yet another far right politician who is either as thick as mince or thinks his supporters can be fed shite.

https://mobile.twitter.com/SenTedCruz/status/1352040800646029312

Shouldn't need pointing out that the Paris Climate Agreement is not about protecting the climate in Paris. But Ted Cruz, a front runner to inherit Trump's mantle, suggesting that to his supporters.

Thick or mendacious. You decide.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Donnywolf on January 22, 2021, 06:02:16 am
I cant think he meant that it was literally Paris. Surely he hoped that certain of Trump's followers would not make that connection for themselves

As with a certain section of supporters / detractors on either side of each debate there are some that WILL believe any old shit that they are fed

So probably not thick (on this occassion) or lying but knew exactly what he was saying in stoking the anti view and hoping for 5% of the gobby people (on either side of every debate) to pick it up and run with it ?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: EasyforDennis on January 22, 2021, 11:56:46 am
Yet another far right politician who is either as thick as mince or thinks his supporters can be fed shite.

https://mobile.twitter.com/SenTedCruz/status/1352040800646029312

Shouldn't need pointing out that the Paris Climate Agreement is not about protecting the climate in Paris. But Ted Cruz, a front runner to inherit Trump's mantle, suggesting that to his supporters.

Thick or mendacious. You decide.

Definitely THICK
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 22, 2021, 12:22:52 pm
Nah, he's not ED. Cruz is many things but he ain't thick.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: ravenrover on January 22, 2021, 01:12:40 pm
74m voted for a Republican President not necessarily for Trump as an individual. They couldn't bring themselves to vote Democrat, it's a bit like the old days in the North voting Labour
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on January 22, 2021, 01:46:07 pm
74m voted for a Republican President not necessarily for Trump as an individual. They couldn't bring themselves to vote Democrat, it's a bit like the old days in the North voting Labour

I think you'll find it's a lot more complicated that simple statement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPmcvCz6sPk
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 22, 2021, 05:18:52 pm
I know several high level professionals from both Govt and private industry in the south of the USA. Many of them, right up to last autumn were saying they were voting for Trump because they discounted the brash, obnoxiousness and thought he was better for the economy.

I've been gobsmacked to hear that they ignored the Russian collusion and the illegality. I've not had a chance to catch up with them about their opinion following the storming of the Capitol, but if they are still Trump supporters after that, America is in a hell of a hole.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: tyke1962 on January 22, 2021, 08:40:44 pm
Glyn.

Exactly.

Biden and Sanders were discussing a role for Sanders in Biden's cabinet. They decided that Sanders was better remaining in the Senate and giving the Democrats control, than risking losing a by-election.

Tyke. I've asked before. What exactly do you think a left-leaning politician can do to attract voters who voted for a criminal, treasonous, seditious, xenophobic rapist?

Specific policies.

Two of my recommendations would be to reform The Senate which is clearly an undemocratic body , just exactly how do the Republicans have 50 Senators as do the Democrats yet the Democrats represent 41 million more people ? .

Some small hick town southern republican stronghold speaks for the US apparently .

Its a remarkable coincidence but every time I see a lack of democracy I see neoliberal tentacles , something I've mentioned previously with regards to the EU .

High time someone had the balls to call out the tech companies on misinformation , lies and fake news , this is clearly a huge part in fueling the Trumps of this world .

With those two in the bag you have half a chance of tackling inequality and improving lives for the less well off .

I can't provide specific policies Billy because unless you start limiting the impact the stay as we are neoliberal factions then policies are unlikely to see the light of day .

Which leads me straight to the bought democracy angle , big business , party funding and lobbying , again the man in the street doesn't have a voice and yet he is the vast majority of the electorate .

A programme of reform must happen and as I say it's time the neoliberalists were cut down to size and sensible capitalism replaced it .

If these kind of reforms don't happen then there's only one option left , the same kind of option that was played out in France in the 1700's or Russia at the beginning of the last century .

I'm deadly serious by the way , this will happen if change isn't forthcoming .

Biden needs make an impact and make neoliberals the enemy and not the black man , whether he or his party have the will is perhaps debatable .

Obama oversaw the loss of a million manufacturing jobs in the US during his administration so you'll have to excuse my scepticism Billy .

Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: ravenrover on January 22, 2021, 09:37:00 pm
74m voted for a Republican President not necessarily for Trump as an individual. They couldn't bring themselves to vote Democrat, it's a bit like the old days in the North voting Labour

I think you'll find it's a lot more complicated that simple statement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPmcvCz6sPk
So you are telling me that all 74m actually voted for Trump the individual rather than him being the Republican candidate?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 22, 2021, 09:43:51 pm
Quote
reform The Senate which is clearly an undemocratic body , just exactly how do the Republicans have 50 Senators as do the Democrats yet the Democrats represent 41 million more people ?

Tyke.

Aye. Grand. Me, I'd quite like Alicia Vikander to demand my participation in working out her erotic frustrations, but there's a problem trying to sort out the mechanism by which that happens.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on January 22, 2021, 09:49:57 pm
74m voted for a Republican President not necessarily for Trump as an individual. They couldn't bring themselves to vote Democrat, it's a bit like the old days in the North voting Labour

I think you'll find it's a lot more complicated that simple statement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPmcvCz6sPk
So you are telling me that all 74m actually voted for Trump the individual rather than him being the Republican candidate?

No, listen to the opinions of those who voted for Trump in that video and then say it's as simple as just switching from one party to the other.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: tyke1962 on January 22, 2021, 10:06:27 pm
Quote
reform The Senate which is clearly an undemocratic body , just exactly how do the Republicans have 50 Senators as do the Democrats yet the Democrats represent 41 million more people ?

Tyke.

Aye. Grand. Me, I'd quite like Alicia Vikander to demand my participation in working out her erotic frustrations, but there's a problem trying to sort out the mechanism by which that happens.


Just a sample of the good people on Fox News with regard to raising taxes for the super wealthy .

Quickly cut down to size mind but you hardly hear of these kind of retorts .

Something once again that needs to change , the Democrats have the microphone in their hand .

I'd kindly suggest they make good use of it .

Propaganda works two ways and in this climate now would be the perfect time .

Unless the Democrats are happy to acknowledge that the top 650 US billionaires have increased their wealth by $3.5tn since the start of the pandemic whilst 24 million US workers have lost their jobs .

Worth 10 minutes of your time .


https://youtu.be/pnoLAMHwf2I

Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 22, 2021, 10:17:20 pm
Tyke.

You are very passionate in your assertion that the Democrats are in hock to the rich. You DO know that the last two Democrat Presidents both raised the top tax rates?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: scawsby steve on January 22, 2021, 10:20:23 pm
BB. It is nothing like that. That is a very poor comparison for reasons I've explained several times before, but you keep on making it.

1) In Britain you don't vote for a PM. You vote for a party. The PM's freedom to implement policy is constrained by what he can get through Parliament. The Labour party MPs would have highly constrained the freedom of a PM Corbyn, because most of them vehemently disagreed with his foreign policy in particular.

That is not the case in the USA. You vote for a President who has huge executive powers, especially on foreign policy. There is far less constraint on him.

2) Then you look at the choice in an election. I've said before that the choice of which PM was going to be in power in 2019 was the worst in living memory. Even if you accept your caricature of Corbyn, the alternative was a career compulsive liar who was committed to what most people on the Left consider to be the most damaging policy to Britain's economic and foreign position in centuries. And whose party is in hoc to Russian gangster funding.

In America, the choice was between a competent if dull centrist politician (who isn't a paedophile, despite the obsessions of some on the Right) and a criminal, treasonous, seditious, xenophobic rapist. And 74 million still voted for the latter.

Tyke is wanting the centre-Left in America to win the hearts of those 74million. I'm asking him how? Personally, if, given the choice between Trump and Biden, they chose Trump, I do not see anything that a centre-Left party can do to ever win more than a handful of them back. The aim must be to neutralise their political effect by energising the 81million who rejected him. Get sensible politics back. And slowly let the demographic shift make a return to Trump's fascism become impossible.

If, as you say, Trump's supporters don't believe he is
a criminal, treasonous, seditious, xenophobic rapist, despite all the evidence, they are beyond reasoning with. And trying to reason with them is a fool's errand. They need to be contained, not understood, so they never wreak this damage on America again.

I find that last paragraph well below your usual level of intellect and reasoning, BST. The USA is now as hopelessly divided as it was in the Civil War, and you're suggesting it's OK for this to continue, as long as one side is physically suppressed from causing damage.

The irony is that your last sentence is in itself very Trumpian. I certainly don't think Joe Biden would agree with it, in his stated quest for reconciliation.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 22, 2021, 10:25:18 pm
SS.

I didn't say anything about physical suppression.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: scawsby steve on January 22, 2021, 11:10:36 pm
SS.

I didn't say anything about physical suppression.

Then how else would you contain them, seeing as most of them are armed?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: tyke1962 on January 22, 2021, 11:14:38 pm
Tyke.

You are very passionate in your assertion that the Democrats are in hock to the rich. You DO know that the last two Democrat Presidents both raised the top tax rates?

I wouldn't go as far as to say in hock to the rich Billy but I'd kindly suggest they haven't done enough whilst in the White House ,

The US of today can't simply be laid at Trump's doorstep that's far too simplistic as in the demise of the Labour Party wasn't owned lock , stock and barrel by Corbyn .

Get in to bed with the neoliberal for a few terms in office on their terms seems to be where we are at , the classic sticking plaster on the gaping wound .

History tells me that men and women of far sterner stuff achieved far more .

Biden seems to be the calm the fcuk down people man whilst business goes on as normal in my opinion .

An interlude , let's cut to the commercials folks we'll be back in two minutes .

I'm beginning to think that there's only one option for the reset .................

When democracy isn't really democracy but simply a confidence trick then go figure where that historically goes .









Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 22, 2021, 11:30:30 pm
SS.
You contain them by continually confronting their ideas, disproving their falsehoods and prosecuting their illegality. You show the rest of the country that the people who condoned and supported Trump, even after he incited an insurrection, are the problem, not patriots to be looked to as an example.

You promote unity, for sure. But on the terms of them confirming to basic standards. Not by putting an arm round them and saying "We understand you."

Fundamentally, it is a war of ideas. You win that by showing every day that their ideas are foul and the people who have led them are criminal self-aggrandisers.

They'll die out, eventually. Look how many of the Insurrectionist have howled "I didn't expect to get arrested!" when the law has grabbed them. Nip them in the bud now and hold them up as examples, rather than going easy on them.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: tyke1962 on January 23, 2021, 12:02:08 am
SS.
You contain them by continually confronting their ideas, disproving their falsehoods and prosecuting their illegality. You show the rest of the country that the people who condoned and supported Trump, even after he incited an insurrection, are the problem, not patriots to be looked to as an example.

You promote unity, for sure. But on the terms of them confirming to basic standards. Not by putting an arm round them and saying "We understand you."

Fundamentally, it is a war of ideas. You win that by showing every day that their ideas are foul and the people who have led them are criminal self-aggrandisers.

They'll die out, eventually. Look how many of the Insurrectionist have howled "I didn't expect to get arrested!" when the law has grabbed them. Nip them in the bud now and hold them up as examples, rather than going easy on them.

Yeh you can do that Billy and put them away for 10 years in the state penitentiary .

You could also look at this another way and look upon them as victims played by people unlikely to be brought to justice who used them to keep things as they are in the US .

I'm not suggesting for one minute they should escape justice by the way .

The Nuremberg trials following WW2 would be my approach if you take my meaning and in relative terms .

I wouldn't expect Trump , Rupert Murdoch or Tucker Carlson to take  cyanide to escape the gallows but that is where my focus would be and you finish them off as career neoliberals .

The red lines are redrawn , the same concept they adopted to finish Scargill and Corbyn as probably two standout left personalities as an example .

It would be a mistake to make martyrs of Trump and co in my opinion , even the tories and the establishment knew that with the above .

You cut the feckin head off the monster , the rest dies as a consequence .

This game can be played two ways Billy the only thing to be debated is the will of those currently in power in the US .





Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 23, 2021, 12:22:16 am
Tyke.

I'm not Mother Teresa.

In my opinion, anyone who has watched and listened to Trump these past 5 years, and thinks he's a patriot, the saviour of his people, a victim, a fighter for the little man or even remotely close to be honest and trustworthy is beyond saving.

If you give them a better job and better prospects, they are not going to turn round and say "Gee! You were right all along! What i fool I've been!"

They just need politically containing and neutralising until the toxicity dies away.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: tyke1962 on January 23, 2021, 12:56:58 am
Tyke.

I'm not Mother Teresa.

In my opinion, anyone who has watched and listened to Trump these past 5 years, and thinks he's a patriot, the saviour of his people, a victim, a fighter for the little man or even remotely close to be honest and trustworthy is beyond saving.

If you give them a better job and better prospects, they are not going to turn round and say "Gee! You were right all along! What i fool I've been!"

They just need politically containing and neutralising until the toxicity dies away.

But that's not how historically you've rid a country of fascism is it Billy which in my opinion is pretty close to what Trump was relatively speaking .

Surely you build something better so there's absolutely no reason to go there again .

You lead by taking people with you , 74 million who voted for Trump is the issue not those who stormed the senate or who voted for Biden .

By not focusing on the real issue the next Trump is only four years away , a smarter more dangerous one perhaps .

The centre left may also want to consider a ruthless streak when it elects it's representatives instead of wet w@nks who run away and are willing to be just as dirty as the opponents they face .

The play is to convert the vast majority of Trump's 74 million and bury the feckers career wise who feed the frenzy .

Things are coming to a head in my opinion after over 40 years of neoliberlism , the stakes never higher .

Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: wilts rover on January 23, 2021, 07:36:30 am
Tyke.

I'm not Mother Teresa.

In my opinion, anyone who has watched and listened to Trump these past 5 years, and thinks he's a patriot, the saviour of his people, a victim, a fighter for the little man or even remotely close to be honest and trustworthy is beyond saving.

If you give them a better job and better prospects, they are not going to turn round and say &quot;Gee! You were right all along! What i fool I've been!&quot;

They just need politically containing and neutralising until the toxicity dies away.

But that's not how historically you've rid a country of fascism is it Billy which in my opinion is pretty close to what Trump was relatively speaking .

Surely you build something better so there's absolutely no reason to go there again .

You lead by taking people with you , 74 million who voted for Trump is the issue not those who stormed the senate or who voted for Biden .

By not focusing on the real issue the next Trump is only four years away , a smarter more dangerous one perhaps .

The centre left may also want to consider a ruthless streak when it elects it's representatives instead of wet w@nks who run away and are willing to be just as dirty as the opponents they face .

The play is to convert the vast majority of Trump's 74 million and bury the feckers career wise who feed the frenzy .

Things are coming to a head in my opinion after over 40 years of neoliberlism , the stakes never higher .



What you either forget or ignore Tyke is that for the vast majority of Trump supporters it is not neoliberlism they have a problem with.

It is no suprise that your time frame fits in with the civil rights movement and the massive changes thise brought to American society - and the people disliked this.

It is no suprise that Trump came to power immediately after America's first black president.

Trump did not create this mood in American society, it has been there since the Civil War and he was a big democratic donor in the 90's, but he and his billionaire backers saw how they could appeal to people who have this attitude to gain power.

Trump was a PR front for billionaire low tax, small state, low regulation, climate deniers to appeal to racists to gain power.

He might have gone, but they are still there and they aint changing anytime soon.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: ravenrover on January 23, 2021, 06:48:01 pm
74m voted for a Republican President not necessarily for Trump as an individual. They couldn't bring themselves to vote Democrat, it's a bit like the old days in the North voting Labour

I think you'll find it's a lot more complicated that simple statement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPmcvCz6sPk
So you are telling me that all 74m actually voted for Trump the individual rather than him being the Republican candidate?

No, listen to the opinions of those who voted for Trump in that video and then say it's as simple as just switching from one party to the other.
I never suggested  they change their support I just query the supposition that 74m Republican voters voted for Trump rather than just the Republican party
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on January 24, 2021, 12:51:19 am
Tyke.

I'm not Mother Teresa.

In my opinion, anyone who has watched and listened to Trump these past 5 years, and thinks he's a patriot, the saviour of his people, a victim, a fighter for the little man or even remotely close to be honest and trustworthy is beyond saving.

If you give them a better job and better prospects, they are not going to turn round and say &quot;Gee! You were right all along! What i fool I've been!&quot;

They just need politically containing and neutralising until the toxicity dies away.

But that's not how historically you've rid a country of fascism is it Billy which in my opinion is pretty close to what Trump was relatively speaking .

Surely you build something better so there's absolutely no reason to go there again .

You lead by taking people with you , 74 million who voted for Trump is the issue not those who stormed the senate or who voted for Biden .

By not focusing on the real issue the next Trump is only four years away , a smarter more dangerous one perhaps .

The centre left may also want to consider a ruthless streak when it elects it's representatives instead of wet w@nks who run away and are willing to be just as dirty as the opponents they face .

The play is to convert the vast majority of Trump's 74 million and bury the feckers career wise who feed the frenzy .

Things are coming to a head in my opinion after over 40 years of neoliberlism , the stakes never higher .



What you either forget or ignore Tyke is that for the vast majority of Trump supporters it is not neoliberlism they have a problem with.

It is no suprise that your time frame fits in with the civil rights movement and the massive changes thise brought to American society - and the people disliked this.

It is no suprise that Trump came to power immediately after America's first black president.

Trump did not create this mood in American society, it has been there since the Civil War and he was a big democratic donor in the 90's, but he and his billionaire backers saw how they could appeal to people who have this attitude to gain power.

Trump was a PR front for billionaire low tax, small state, low regulation, climate deniers to appeal to racists to gain power.

He might have gone, but they are still there and they aint changing anytime soon.

I would think that this is very close to the true picture of trumps rise to power not that he is short of ambition to fill his own pockets but as soon as he became a possibility there would be those more than willing fall in behind to ensure it happened. I would like to think that education would help but as has been said previously, where the hell would you start. It may be better to keep them on the margins and concentrate on getting the minority votes up the gerrymandering sorted along with suppression of voting rights and hope that the offspring of trump supporters are more susceptable to reason, I don't hold much hope for the latter.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Filo on February 11, 2021, 09:09:53 am
If the Republicans in the Senate find Trump not guilty of inciting insurrection true democracy is dead in America and the Constitution becomes a joke
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: ravenrover on February 11, 2021, 09:48:35 am
Start laughing now then Filo, those spineless Republicans will not convict him.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Filo on February 11, 2021, 10:00:18 am
Start laughing now then Filo, those spineless Republicans will not convict him.

I agree, they don’t care less about the Constitution
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Dutch Uncle on February 11, 2021, 12:16:12 pm
The link to substack article within this tweet is well worth a read, especially the Amendment 14 part at the end.

https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/1359641124235866112

Direct link here:

https://sethabramson.substack.com/p/the-conviction-of-trump-remains-a
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on February 11, 2021, 01:56:02 pm
If a President directly and unambiguously inciting people who had been openly talking about executing Senators to riot and storm the Capitol, and that does not result in the Senate upholding the impeachment, you kind of wonder what a President WOULD have to do.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Filo on February 11, 2021, 02:00:29 pm
If a President directly and unambiguously inciting people who had been openly talking about executing Senators to riot and storm the Capitol, and that does not result in the Senate upholding the impeachment, you kind of wonder what a President WOULD have to do.

I’m convinced that Trump could kill most of those Republican Senator’s family and they would still find him not Guilty. The evidence against Trump is overwhelming, this is a show of how much they care about their own party against how much they care about the Constitution
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on February 11, 2021, 02:34:35 pm
Start laughing now then Filo, those spineless Republicans will not convict him.

Especially now that Trump is going to be investigated (and almost certainly prosecuted) at state level. Because being found guilty at state level will get Trump out of the GOP's hair and their Congressmen will still be able to claim they didn't stab him in the back.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on February 11, 2021, 09:00:29 pm
Having a conviction doesn't bar a person from being president in the US.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on February 11, 2021, 10:01:31 pm
Having a conviction doesn't bar a person from being president in the US.

A conviction (with almost certain jail time) for trying to nobble an election is reason enough for the GOP to tell him to bugger off and not come back.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on February 12, 2021, 12:28:53 am
Having a conviction doesn't bar a person from being president in the US.

A conviction (with almost certain jail time) for trying to nobble an election is reason enough for the GOP to tell him to bugger off and not come back.

But if the GOP supporters vote for him in primaries in 2024, it doesn't matter what the GOP top brass say.

And in any case, no-one wins the GOP nomination in 2024 without winning the support of the Trump supporters. Which is why Cruz and Rubio and the like are going to vote to exonerate a man who incited a mob to storm the Capitol, and why they will never criticise Trump.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Not Now Kato on February 12, 2021, 10:11:57 am
This is worth 12 minutes of your time....
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWLBtMz5OuY&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Filo on February 12, 2021, 11:57:19 am
https://www.businessinsider.com/3-gop-senators-met-trump-lawyers-day-before-defense-presentation-2021-2


How impartial can these three members of the Senate (jury) be when they are meeting with the defence team? Democracy has already died in America
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on February 12, 2021, 09:58:47 pm
https://mobile.twitter.com/StefSimanowitz/status/1359599683191062530

Bothsidesism. Being used to excuse voting to acquit Trump.

Of course, only one side has actually stormed the Capitol building after being invited by their President, a narcissistic, amoral, criminal man-child.

But yeah. Both sides are as bad as each other.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: drfchound on February 13, 2021, 09:21:16 pm
Trump acquitted.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Filo on February 13, 2021, 09:35:34 pm
I’ve just watched Mitch McConnell vote to acquit Trump and then make a speech saying Trump was Guilty, how f**ked up are things over there?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on February 13, 2021, 11:12:42 pm
McConnell said that Trump was "morally and practically responsible" for the insurrection. But said he voted against the impeachment because it was unconstitutional as Trump is no longer President.

That's a fair and honest position to take I suppo...

Except. Hang on.

Five weeks ago, when Trump still was President and McConnell was in charge of the Senate, McConnell blocked moves to hold the impeachment hearing before Trump's term finished, saying it wasn't the time.

The man is beneath disgusting. He has just deliberately organised a process to allow a President to get off scot free with inciting a mob to invade the Capitol to stop the legal process of confirming an election.

It is a long, long way back for America out of this pit.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Filo on February 14, 2021, 08:03:10 am
McConnell said that Trump was &quot;morally and practically responsible&quot; for the insurrection. But said he voted against the impeachment because it was unconstitutional as Trump is no longer President.

That's a fair and honest position to take I suppo...

Except. Hang on.

Five weeks ago, when Trump still was President and McConnell was in charge of the Senate, McConnell blocked moves to hold the impeachment hearing before Trump's term finished, saying it wasn't the time.

The man is beneath disgusting. He has just deliberately organised a process to allow a President to get off scot free with inciting a mob to invade the Capitol to stop the legal process of confirming an election.

It is a long, long way back for America out of this pit.

But the Senate voted a week ago that it was constitutional
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on February 14, 2021, 08:14:05 am
And now McConnell is saying trump is not in the clear yet and could be subject to prosecution, so one could possibly read from that that he didn't want an impeached president on the republican books.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: tyke1962 on February 14, 2021, 10:19:32 am
I'm kind of torn on this , there's no doubt he's got away with it and its made a mockery of the US justice system if there ever was such a thing .

However there was also a danger that you could make a martyr out of Trump and more fuel is added to the fire .

Either way it's not good , not good at all .

It's seems an almost impossible task to  fix the US to tell the truth .
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on February 14, 2021, 11:00:19 am
trump has burnt a few relationships getting thus far and when those charged with insurrection get in front of the beak and trump won't/can't help them he'll lose a few more. It may fall in a heap for republicans if he forms a new party and splits the vote, I can't see the same sort of numbers following him as an independent especially as lots of republicans will be working against him, I hope it burns him up and out.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Filo on February 14, 2021, 11:22:58 am
Imagine being sat in a prison cell now, thinking you were carrying out your presidents orders, facing many years in prison, and seeing what you thought was your president, and had your back, abandon you. But then again if you are too stupid to realise that would happen, then you have probably got what you deserved
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Dutch Uncle on February 14, 2021, 03:35:26 pm
I'm kind of torn on this , there's no doubt he's got away with it and its made a mockery of the US justice system if there ever was such a thing .

However there was also a danger that you could make a martyr out of Trump and more fuel is added to the fire .

Either way it's not good , not good at all .

It's seems an almost impossible task to  fix the US to tell the truth .

Don't think that's quite right Tyke.

Certainly Trump has made a mockery of the Capitol political processes to discipline their own, but I believe the US Justice system has had to wait and is now going to get its chance. Hopefully it will be more successful.

But you are right that the political and society divisions in the US are greater than ever
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on February 14, 2021, 09:58:57 pm
Good to see our PM getting this impeachment "kerfuffle" in perspective.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56061624

Nothing much to worry about, according to Johnson. That's the Johnson who once said Trump deserved a Nobel Peace Prize of course. So he clearly knows his shite on the topic.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: belton rover on February 15, 2021, 09:49:06 pm
It’s good to read in that article that both Biden and Johnson are looking forward to a strong relationship. It’s also encouraging to read that democracy appears to have shone through despite Trump’s best attempts to destroy it.
All in all, a really positive article - here’s to a better future for America and for strong relationships between us.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: drfchound on February 15, 2021, 09:51:21 pm
Good to read something positive on this thread Belton.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on May 10, 2021, 04:30:44 am
I see the GoP are clinging to the coat tails trump for their very existence and are ousting anyone that would dare to speak the truth. Have they no pride, no conscience, no idea?

''Republicans gear up to oust Liz Cheney as punishment for criticizing Trump
Goaded on by the ghostly figure of Trump, House Republicans are poised to eject Cheney from her number three leadership post''

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/may/09/liz-cheney-trump-republicans

Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on May 31, 2021, 11:34:57 pm
And so it goes on. The American batshit right openly undermining democracy. Here's Michael Flynn, ex General and Trump's sometime national security adviser saying they should have a Myanmar-style military coup.

Echoing QAnon forums, Michael Flynn appears to suggest a Myanmar-style coup should happen in the...
cnn.com

Oh aye. And the media so scared of calling out fascists as fascists that they say he "appears" to say what he actually said.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on June 01, 2021, 11:16:46 am
And so it goes on. The American batshit right openly undermining democracy. Here's Michael Flynn, ex General and Trump's sometime national security adviser saying they should have a Myanmar-style military coup.

Echoing QAnon forums, Michael Flynn appears to suggest a Myanmar-style coup should happen in the...
cnn.com

Oh aye. And the media so scared of calling out fascists as fascists that they say he &quot;appears&quot; to say what he actually said.

Have you seen what the Texas Republicans have been trying to do to make it harder to vote, and how the Democrats were creative in stopping them?
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on June 01, 2021, 01:10:57 pm
Just realised my post works better with the actual link...
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/05/31/politics/michael-flynn-qanon/index.html&ved=2ahUKEwjExqrKs_bwAhUOLewKHZRvAoQQyM8BMAB6BAgDEAY&usg=AOvVaw2kZQxITo4YBC9OFHW9q509&ampcf=1
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on June 04, 2021, 12:31:40 am
And just for a laugh .................... paid for vids from minor/ex celebs praising satan to Maga supporters.

https://twitter.com/AbediAA/status/1321258082014552066?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1321258082014552066%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.huffpost.com%2Fentry%2Fright-wing-figures-thank-satan-iblis_n_5f9b19a0c5b65a0efac98b01
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on July 31, 2021, 12:58:04 am
Hopefully another few nails in the coffin

''Double trouble for Donald Trump. The US Department of Justice has ordered the Internal Revenue Service to hand over his tax returns to a House committee, saying the panel has invoked “sufficient reasons” for requesting it.

There are also further developments in the saga of Trump’s attempt to overturn his election defeat by Joe Biden, in the shape of the news that Trump pressured top justice department officials to falsely claim the 2020 election was corrupt so he and his allies in Congress could subvert the results and return him to office, according to newly released memos''

pass me the nail gun please

The Guardian US live
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on September 15, 2021, 01:08:18 am
So a year or so ago, I was posting in here about how deranged Trump was and how his behaviour threatened peace and democracy. I was saying that his actions were the sort of thing that could lead to civil war. I was saying that I'd be amazed if senior military staff weren't considering what to do if he ordered a nuclear attack.

And I was told by some folk in here that was a ridiculous over exaggeration.

Well we know that after his election loss, his supporters invaded the Capitol, some of them with the express intention of killing senators who had voted to accept the election result. Success in that sort of putsch is precisely how civil wars start.

But surely I was exaggerating when I said senior military figures would have plans to stop Trump firing nukes?

Apparently not.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/09/14/politics/woodward-book-trump-nuclear/index.html
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on September 15, 2021, 10:59:16 am
Watch out for September 18th at the Capitol: 'Justice For J6' rally: Insurrection 2.

Coming to your reality soon.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: SydneyRover on September 15, 2021, 11:04:23 am
I think following the jailing of some I think we will see a better behaved bunch this time around Glyn
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: belton rover on September 15, 2021, 12:13:09 pm
So a year or so ago, I was posting in here about how deranged Trump was and how his behaviour threatened peace and democracy. I was saying that his actions were the sort of thing that could lead to civil war. I was saying that I'd be amazed if senior military staff weren't considering what to do if he ordered a nuclear attack.

And I was told by some folk in here that was a ridiculous over exaggeration.

Well we know that after his election loss, his supporters invaded the Capitol, some of them with the express intention of killing senators who had voted to accept the election result. Success in that sort of putsch is precisely how civil wars start.

But surely I was exaggerating when I said senior military figures would have plans to stop Trump firing nukes?

Apparently not.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/09/14/politics/woodward-book-trump-nuclear/index.html

Billy. Your shameless scaremongering proved to be virtually fruitless. You were very wrong about what would happen. I’d forgotten you were wrong but now you’ve reminded me again. Your desperation to falsely show how right you are all the time is embarrassing.
Stop.
Title: Re: Trump and democracy
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on September 15, 2021, 12:39:18 pm
I think following the jailing of some I think we will see a better behaved bunch this time around Glyn

The rally is all about freeing those in jail because they believe they're wrongly imprisoned ('Justice for J6') so I doubt that they'll worry about it for themselves.