Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Lindy on July 03, 2020, 11:04:50 am
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Can someone explain the point of it under Darren Moore? I thought our owners were aiming for Rovers to be a sustainable club. DM has released our young players and intends to sign loan players. If that is the policy then why not get rid of the academy and save money? That being the case I will be limiting my visits to the Keepmoat. I don’t want to watch a team full of loan players. For me two loan players on the pitch is more than enough.
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Ever thought that DM has his sights set higher and didn’t rate the current crop. It will be part of a bigger picture especially considering that going forward there will be a need for homegrown talent
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Can someone explain the point of it under Darren Moore? I thought our owners were aiming for Rovers to be a sustainable club. DM has released our young players and intends to sign loan players. If that is the policy then why not get rid of the academy and save money? That being the case I will be limiting my visits to the Keepmoat. I don’t want to watch a team full of loan players. For me two loan players on the pitch is more than enough.
Your visits to the Keepmoat will be limited anyway due to playing behind closed doors.
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Can someone explain the point of it under Darren Moore? I thought our owners were aiming for Rovers to be a sustainable club. DM has released our young players and intends to sign loan players. If that is the policy then why not get rid of the academy and save money? That being the case I will be limiting my visits to the Keepmoat. I don’t want to watch a team full of loan players. For me two loan players on the pitch is more than enough.
In the current climate it’s difficult to operate normally, if the U23’s have to be scaled back to get us through this crisis and hopefully maintain or improve our league position, so be it, at least we’ll have a club to support
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I think any decision's made this season have to be taken in the context of the current covid climate.Revenues are being hammered and will continue to be.The club has to shrink the bubble and cut costs to as sustainable level as it can.That will be happening right now with every club outside the Premiership.You only have to look at the release lists and how few new contracts are being offered,and if the u23 programme has to take a back seat for a year or so then so be it.
That said our development/youth programmes have so far produced very very little compared to the investment it's received..We cant seem to produce many players who come through it and become first team players.Yes some do get 1 year pro contracts but then fade away..Maybe this is the time were we have a roots and branch look at it to try and work out why.So when things do return to normal maybe we can produce better...
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This isn’t DM fault it’s a fault of the EFL allowing 5 players in a match day squad to be loan players, he’s only doing what other managers do, I take it you didn’t go much last season, if at all
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Most clubs will be looking at loaning U21 players from the EPL this coming season as they don't fall into the squad cap calculation. Expect to see more not less.
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Can someone explain the point of it under Darren Moore? I thought our owners were aiming for Rovers to be a sustainable club. DM has released our young players and intends to sign loan players. If that is the policy then why not get rid of the academy and save money? That being the case I will be limiting my visits to the Keepmoat. I don’t want to watch a team full of loan players. For me two loan players on the pitch is more than enough.
When the players wear the shirt they are DRFC players, loanees or not.
That has got to be one of the most ridiculous arguments I have seen for not going to the matches.
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Well said the previous two posters, you might not like the player but he is playing for OUR team, remember years ago when players went on loan for a month sometimes you never saw them play because of the weather or how the fixtures panned out like it could have happened in March with 5 out 6 matches away
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I am sure that in the near future news of the next batch of scholarship young players the club have given scholarships to will be posted on the main club site.
The situation at the moment has put things back in time as most people on here will realise, but that does not mean that things have stopped altogether, the club are committed to their youth policy and although the time line has been extended because of the situation with training and coaching curtailed, it will begin again at the earliest convenient date.
In the mean time even for the youth and junior teams training schedules to do remotely and skill sessions have been sent out to the players on line so that at least they are as ready as they can be for the restart. The club have been as proactive as possible in that respect.
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Can someone explain the point of it under Darren Moore? I thought our owners were aiming for Rovers to be a sustainable club. DM has released our young players and intends to sign loan players. If that is the policy then why not get rid of the academy and save money? That being the case I will be limiting my visits to the Keepmoat. I don’t want to watch a team full of loan players. For me two loan players on the pitch is more than enough.
When the players wear the shirt they are DRFC players, loanees or not.
That has got to be one of the most ridiculous arguments I have seen for not going to the matches.
I think it is frustrating giving game time to lads, helping them develop and then receiving nothing for them. A lot of people would prefer to see us develop assets of our own then make money for big teams.
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Amos and Jones might get a chance of that this season Donny with a bit of luck, but only if they are good enough to hold down a place, basically it is up to them and Horton wants to be looking at shoving on. In the two full backs cases they are up against two of our successes of last season so have a lot to do.
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I would rather have loan players in for a year ie Kane, Wilks , Houghton etc than players on short terms contracts,Cole ,Bingham
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Can someone explain the point of it under Darren Moore? I thought our owners were aiming for Rovers to be a sustainable club. DM has released our young players and intends to sign loan players. If that is the policy then why not get rid of the academy and save money? That being the case I will be limiting my visits to the Keepmoat. I don’t want to watch a team full of loan players. For me two loan players on the pitch is more than enough.
When the players wear the shirt they are DRFC players, loanees or not.
That has got to be one of the most ridiculous arguments I have seen for not going to the matches.
I think it is frustrating giving game time to lads, helping them develop and then receiving nothing for them. A lot of people would prefer to see us develop assets of our own then make money for big teams.
What we receive may not be monetary directly, but is given in their performances on the pitch. That’s where the value is..
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I think any decision's made this season have to be taken in the context of the current covid climate.Revenues are being hammered and will continue to be.The club has to shrink the bubble and cut costs to as sustainable level as it can.That will be happening right now with every club outside the Premiership.You only have to look at the release lists and how few new contracts are being offered,and if the u23 programme has to take a back seat for a year or so then so be it.
That said our development/youth programmes have so far produced very very little compared to the investment it's received..We cant seem to produce many players who come through it and become first team players.Yes some do get 1 year pro contracts but then fade away..Maybe this is the time were we have a roots and branch look at it to try and work out why.So when things do return to normal maybe we can produce better...
I read the other day Liverpool had over 200 players registered aside from the first team squad, which is incredible. How many of them a season actually make a league start? 1 or 2 at most? By comparison we have very little options to chose from, plus all the local talent is cherry picked by bigger clubs long before their 16th birthday. Hence why we have almost zero local talent holding down first team spots.
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Can someone explain the point of it under Darren Moore? I thought our owners were aiming for Rovers to be a sustainable club. DM has released our young players and intends to sign loan players. If that is the policy then why not get rid of the academy and save money? That being the case I will be limiting my visits to the Keepmoat. I don’t want to watch a team full of loan players. For me two loan players on the pitch is more than enough.
Is it Moore or DRFC who look long term , IMO Moore wants success on the pitch and would not want to wait for players to come through the ranks . Loans are the cheapest way to success but fraught with dangers as they often move back to to their parent clubs and you have to start again anyway . Rovers are not going ever to put money before success . So with Covid 19 being in charge of events it’s going to be another none season and the clubs finances being restricted to the point of a lower L2 team .
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Wing Commander, you can’t expect much from a group of lads that are playing at Cat3 level. We can’t afford the step up to Cat2, so we have to do the best we can with what we can get in! It’s not easy, as investing the increased levels of funding to the youth set-up, robs us of that level of investment in the first team squad.
Last season, the u18 lads were winning their league at a canter, with something like a 12 point lead over their rivals. So, you can’t say the Club aren’t doing something right. There are 1 or 2 young lads who are well worth keeping on and I hope we hear some news on that, soon.
As for the next batch, talk to Selby about the potential in the u16’s, they sound very promising!
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Can someone explain the point of it under Darren Moore? I thought our owners were aiming for Rovers to be a sustainable club. DM has released our young players and intends to sign loan players. If that is the policy then why not get rid of the academy and save money? That being the case I will be limiting my visits to the Keepmoat. I don’t want to watch a team full of loan players. For me two loan players on the pitch is more than enough.
Is it Moore or DRFC who look long term , IMO Moore wants success on the pitch and would not want to wait for players to come through the ranks . Loans are the cheapest way to success but fraught with dangers as they often move back to to their parent clubs and you have to start again anyway . Rovers are not going ever to put money before success . So with Covid 19 being in charge of events it’s going to be another none season and the clubs finances being restricted to the point of a lower L2 team .
Do you think Covid 19 only affects us?
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Wing Commander, you can’t expect much from a group of lads that are playing at Cat3 level. We can’t afford the step up to Cat2, so we have to do the best we can with what we can get in! It’s not easy, as investing the increased levels of funding to the youth set-up, robs us of that level of investment in the first team squad.
Last season, the u18 lads were winning their league at a canter, with something like a 12 point lead over their rivals. So, you can’t say the Club aren’t doing something right. There are 1 or 2 young lads who are well worth keeping on and I hope we hear some news on that, soon.
As for the next batch, talk to Selby about the potential in the u16’s, they sound very promising!
By U16 will they be first years in the U18s this coming season?
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Times have changed when we played Northern intermediate league there were about 15 teams. There was no academy premier league competitions. The likes of Leeds, Sheffield Wednesday, Sheffield United and Barnsley are academy Cat 2 and playing in those leagues.
Our under 18s have won the league by a canter but they are not playing the better U18 sides week in week out. That’s the academy and I hope at least three of those players get their first professional contract but have we got the money for U23 team.
Having watched the U23 side this season the best players have been retained for me. DM has said the priority for him is to use the money we have to put a first team together GB said we will use the loan market as history as shown teams with loan players have finished more regularly in the play offs. 4 of Wycombe squad tonight are loans from higher clubs it would have been 5 but they could not continue to pay the left back so he returned to his parent club in lockdown.
Darren Moore’s background as been at U23 level it will hurt him if we can’t have a team but yet again the level of the teams we play is not brilliant.
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Can someone explain the point of it under Darren Moore? I thought our owners were aiming for Rovers to be a sustainable club. DM has released our young players and intends to sign loan players. If that is the policy then why not get rid of the academy and save money? That being the case I will be limiting my visits to the Keepmoat. I don’t want to watch a team full of loan players. For me two loan players on the pitch is more than enough.
Is it Moore or DRFC who look long term , IMO Moore wants success on the pitch and would not want to wait for players to come through the ranks . Loans are the cheapest way to success but fraught with dangers as they often move back to to their parent clubs and you have to start again anyway . Rovers are not going ever to put money before success . So with Covid 19 being in charge of events it’s going to be another none season and the clubs finances being restricted to the point of a lower L2 team .
Do you think Covid 19 only affects us?
No ..,but we will not benefit either .
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Lindy and Since-1969 who was the last player to come out of the U 18 side and progress into the first team, them go on to play for a higher club. The answer was Paul Green who started at Sheff Weds then at 16 came to DRFC. As I’ve said Youth football as changed. Loans are part and parcel of football from higher teams. Wycombe have had 5 this season and they are in the playoffs. You may think it’s the cheap way to run a club but this is the way GB and club believe we will progress and DM will do his best to get good loans to supplement our own players.
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Lindy and Since-1969 who was the last player to come out of the U 18 side and progress into the first team, them go on to play for a higher club. The answer was Paul Green who started at Sheff Weds then at 16 came to DRFC. As I’ve said Youth football as changed. Loans are part and parcel of football from higher teams. Wycombe have had 5 this season and they are in the playoffs. You may think it’s the cheap way to run a club but this is the way GB and club believe we will progress and DM will do his best to get good loans to supplement our own players.
Try again. There's a 26 year old who came through our academy who has 80+ appearances in the Championship.
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Lindy and Since-1969 who was the last player to come out of the U 18 side and progress into the first team, them go on to play for a higher club. The answer was Paul Green who started at Sheff Weds then at 16 came to DRFC. As I’ve said Youth football as changed. Loans are part and parcel of football from higher teams. Wycombe have had 5 this season and they are in the playoffs. You may think it’s the cheap way to run a club but this is the way GB and club believe we will progress and DM will do his best to get good loans to supplement our own players.
Try again. There's a 26 year old who came through our academy who has 80+ appearances in the Championship.
husband? Who considering we signed from Leeds as a 16 year old, can hardly be described as coming through our academy?
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As an alternative look at Crewe, of the 16 players that made 20+ appearances for them this season 10 were given their pro debut by Crewe, majority of which came from the academy.
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Lindy and Since-1969 who was the last player to come out of the U 18 side and progress into the first team, them go on to play for a higher club. The answer was Paul Green who started at Sheff Weds then at 16 came to DRFC. As I’ve said Youth football as changed. Loans are part and parcel of football from higher teams. Wycombe have had 5 this season and they are in the playoffs. You may think it’s the cheap way to run a club but this is the way GB and club believe we will progress and DM will do his best to get good loans to supplement our own players.
Try again. There's a 26 year old who came through our academy who has 80+ appearances in the Championship.
husband? Who considering we signed from Leeds as a 16 year old, can hardly be described as coming through our academy?
I think we can, and anyway Husband counts if Green does, since we got Green from Sheffield Wednesday's academy.
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Another point for Lindy to chew on:
As far as having an u23’s next season - how many u23 sides do you think there will be next season? It’s one thing to have an u23 squad, but if they have no-one to play against, how will their development progress? IF we did have a side next season, they would be lucky if they played 10 games, and those games would largely be down to playing in the Premier Cup competition (if we were invited in it next season).
I think the u23’s will be put on ice until such time as we know whether there are enough teams that would make it feasible to have some sort of competitive set-up.
All that means is that the circumstances that we find ourselves in have absolutely nothing to do with Darren Moore, or DRFC! If you can’t see that, then you’re missing something very fundamental. Maybe time for a bit of reflection?
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Lindy and Since-1969 who was the last player to come out of the U 18 side and progress into the first team, them go on to play for a higher club. The answer was Paul Green who started at Sheff Weds then at 16 came to DRFC. As I’ve said Youth football as changed. Loans are part and parcel of football from higher teams. Wycombe have had 5 this season and they are in the playoffs. You may think it’s the cheap way to run a club but this is the way GB and club believe we will progress and DM will do his best to get good loans to supplement our own players.
Try again. There's a 26 year old who came through our academy who has 80+ appearances in the Championship.
husband? Who considering we signed from Leeds as a 16 year old, can hardly be described as coming through our academy?
I think we can, and anyway Husband counts if Green does, since we got Green from Sheffield Wednesday's academy.
Yeah, otherwise we're going even further back. :lol:
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Anyone know the last true academy graduate who joined drfc as a kid, without being rejected from elsewhere, who has gone in to make a career in the EFL?
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Anyone know the last true academy graduate who joined drfc as a kid, without being rejected from elsewhere, who has gone in to make a career in the EFL?
Darius Henderson apparently. Looks like he played for our youth then went to Reading around 17-18.
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Anyone know the last true academy graduate who joined drfc as a kid, without being rejected from elsewhere, who has gone in to make a career in the EFL?
Darius Henderson apparently. Looks like he played for our youth then went to Reading around 17-18.
Was he really? I knew he had an association with Doncaster (born or brought up here) but never knew he was on our books. Surprised he never got a game given he must have been 17/18 during “that” season.
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Anyone know the last true academy graduate who joined drfc as a kid, without being rejected from elsewhere, who has gone in to make a career in the EFL?
Darius Henderson apparently. Looks like he played for our youth then went to Reading around 17-18.
Was he really? I knew he had an association with Doncaster (born or brought up here) but never knew he was on our books. Surprised he never got a game given he must have been 17/18 during “that” season.
https://www.Scunthorpe-united.co.uk/news/2015/july/iron-sign-darius-henderson/
I think he would have been about 15-16 in 97-98 though.
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Although we are an academy 3 level academy our age groups within the academy have had no little success this last season in their age groups.
The u16s in particular have had success at national level, and have also gained a credible draw and were unlucky not to win at Manchester United. And also some of that team played in higher age group teams against Academies from level 1 and 2 for instance against Burnley Huddersfield and both Sheffield Clubs as well as age groups playing Leeds and in tournaments against Newcastle and Sunderland. Also the u16s played a Leicester City rep side that was actually a team from the Thailand national academy.
The other age groups also played teams out of their normal sphere and competed well with the teams mostly winning more games than they lost and a couple of age groups the u13s I think also winning trophies in competition.
So yes we feed off other sides released players, we trial players from grass root football in our and outside the Doncaster Area, and overall we have had a good season and also raised standards at every level which is more important and need to continue.
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Thank you for your opinions on this subject. I still feel the academy is a waste of money if the youngsters are not feeding through into the first team. As someone mentioned Crewe manage to do this. Surely this is the most cost effective way of progressing. We had a good crop of youngsters this year and I was disappointed at seeing them released. I haven’t changed my mind about loan players-two in a team is plenty. Didn’t know you had to prove your credentials before you could comment on this forum. I’ve supported Rovers since 1960 and have had a season ticket since 2003.
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Anyone know the last true academy graduate who joined drfc as a kid, without being rejected from elsewhere, who has gone in to make a career in the EFL?
Jonny Maxted
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Anyone know the last true academy graduate who joined drfc as a kid, without being rejected from elsewhere, who has gone in to make a career in the EFL?
Jonny Maxted
Apparently joined from Tadcaster at 15.
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Thank you for your opinions on this subject. I still feel the academy is a waste of money if the youngsters are not feeding through into the first team. As someone mentioned Crewe manage to do this. Surely this is the most cost effective way of progressing. We had a good crop of youngsters this year and I was disappointed at seeing them released. I haven’t changed my mind about loan players-two in a team is plenty. Didn’t know you had to prove your credentials before you could comment on this forum. I’ve supported Rovers since 1960 and have had a season ticket since 2003.
It is a valid point to be fair, what is the point in having an academy if we only develop someone EFL standard once every 5-10 years, most of which haven't progressed with us long term. But then again Selby knows more about the academy than most on here and it does sound promising about the quality coming through in the near future. I wonder what's helped that change? Perhaps it's Ferguson coming in and "changing the infrastructure" or the departure of Paul Wilson? It is worth having a look over the next 5 or so years and if we're still in the same position of funding something and not receiving any assets from it what's the point? If we are to continue with it and it bring fruition then I do think it'd probably be worth going to cat 2 at some point as clubs from higher categories can take youth from lower category clubs and having 3 cat 2 clubs in South Yorkshire doesn't help and obviously Leeds not that far away either.
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The past is the past, the attitude to, and in the academy is now unrecognisable to what it was, both in the quality, ambition, and the organisation.
The net is now cast wider, although a small team it is organised and well run by Tony Cooke and the coaches are committed and very good at what they do and demanding of their charges the youngsters.
We will never have the most money thrown at the youth set up, and in fairness a couple of years ago it was probably at a low ebb, it isn't now and is well regarded by other clubs who constantly monitor our young teams as they are a force to be reckoned with in the age groups.
We do need Amos, Greaves, and Jones to kick on to cement faith in the system with the supporters and then to follow on with others such as Horton. That will take time over the next few years and whether it will happen is up to mainly the young players to show they are good enough and be given the chance to do so. But we are probably in the best place we have been in to do so now than we have been for a long time and quite a few youngsters not yet on the radar look very very promising, but if anyone knows of a young striker that scores for fun please let the club know.
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The past is the past, the attitude to, and in the academy is now unrecognisable to what it was, both in the quality, ambition, and the organisation.
The net is now cast wider, although a small team it is organised and well run by Tony Cooke and the coaches are committed and very good at what they do and demanding of their charges the youngsters.
We will never have the most money thrown at the youth set up, and in fairness a couple of years ago it was probably at a low ebb, it isn't now and is well regarded by other clubs who constantly monitor our young teams as they are a force to be reckoned with in the age groups.
We do need Amos, Greaves, and Jones to kick on to cement faith in the system with the supporters and then to follow on with others such as Horton. That will take time over the next few years and whether it will happen is up to mainly the young players to show they are good enough and be given the chance to do so. But we are probably in the best place we have been in to do so now than we have been for a long time and quite a few youngsters not yet on the radar look very very promising, but if anyone knows of a young striker that scores for fun please let the club know.
Out of interest what would you say the difference recently? Change in leadership or just everything coming together?
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McCann showed interest The current management definitely, demanding higher standards and the quality of the staff from Tony Cooke down who put in a hell of a lot of work and time into what has to be said limited resource, but are never the less far better than some other clubs have.
The leadership will always come from the top, and we have some good people in the club who have high standards when it comes to the standard of young players they are looking for and are always looking for better which is how it should be.
I can honestly say that the way youngsters are looked after and the coaching and chance they have to impress will be as good as any other side, and if they have the ability to become professional football league players they could do worse than come to Doncaster Rovers.
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“but if anyone knows of a young striker that scores for fun please let the club know.”
Just released one of those who was the Youth team record goal scorer last season!
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We've had Peterson, McKay and Ball too who none have made it.
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Thank you for your opinions on this subject. I still feel the academy is a waste of money if the youngsters are not feeding through into the first team. As someone mentioned Crewe manage to do this. Surely this is the most cost effective way of progressing. We had a good crop of youngsters this year and I was disappointed at seeing them released. I haven’t changed my mind about loan players-two in a team is plenty. Didn’t know you had to prove your credentials before you could comment on this forum. I’ve supported Rovers since 1960 and have had a season ticket since 2003.
Not sure what you mean by your second last sentence..?
Age and longevity doesn’t necessarily mean folks have to agree with you.
In sixty years you will have seen a hell of a lot of ups and downs following this club, which makes your assertion that having too many loanees would prevent you from attending games seem more than a little odd, don’t you think.?