Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: wilts rover on November 22, 2020, 10:12:46 am
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Deal or no deal?
One senior official says: “To tell you the truth, we don’t know - and frankly, I don’t think the PM knows either.”
Long (but good) read on where we are the moment - and what may/or may not happen this week:
https://www.ft.com/content/9dc54ac8-e38b-4b21-9305-71de25c648d3
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This is what gets me about all the "get ready for Brexit" ads out at the moment.
I work in logistics and import/export and I've not even been told what exactly I need to ready my team for, because we have no idea what it is we'll be working against!
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I feel a capitulation coming from Johnson leaving us with a situation that we may as well have stayed in when you dig down in to the weeds and assess the deal .
There's going to be some very angry people in my opinion .
We voted to leave not compromise .
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I have past caring now I must admit
By the time things pan out and we know whether we were right or not will probably not be clear for 10 years AND as an ordinary man in the street I think it will cost most of the population and I wont be exempt from that
If it works good - if it doesnt then I expect we will rejoin the EU in the distant future poorer for sure but probably no wiser and will have wasted 10 to 20 years
So I have past caring now I must admit
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Said all along that Brexit was always and only ever about the power struggle on the right of the Tory party. It was never, ever about what was good for the country and it is painful to see how genuinely held convictions of ordinary people have been cynically used.
We are at the end game now. It's clear to everyone that all the shite about us holding all the cards and oven ready deals was just knowing lies to buttress support. The only question now is not whether things will be bad after the transition period ends, it is just how bad will they be.
But that's all secondary. The primary purpose of Brexit has been achieved - putting Johnson in No10 in charge of the most far-right Govt in over 100 years.
Those who voted Leave enabled that. They succeeded in the primary task.
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I feel a capitulation coming from Johnson leaving us with a situation that we may as well have stayed in when you dig down in to the weeds and assess the deal .
There's going to be some very angry people in my opinion .
We voted to leave not compromise .
All trade deals are a compromise.
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I feel a capitulation coming from Johnson leaving us with a situation that we may as well have stayed in when you dig down in to the weeds and assess the deal .
There's going to be some very angry people in my opinion .
We voted to leave not compromise .
All trade deals are a compromise.
Which is why I don't like them .
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I feel a capitulation coming from Johnson leaving us with a situation that we may as well have stayed in when you dig down in to the weeds and assess the deal .
There's going to be some very angry people in my opinion .
We voted to leave not compromise .
But therein lies the problem. Nobody knew what "Leave" was back in 2016, and you're not telling me everyone who voted Leave voted for no deal.
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I feel a capitulation coming from Johnson leaving us with a situation that we may as well have stayed in when you dig down in to the weeds and assess the deal .
There's going to be some very angry people in my opinion .
We voted to leave not compromise .
But therein lies the problem. Nobody knew what "Leave" was back in 2016, and you're not telling me everyone who voted Leave voted for no deal.
They voted against the four freedoms Janso and any alignment to that with a trade deal is treachery of the highest order in my opinion .
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To be honest, most leave voters were probably voting against the scale of immigration.
Since Brexit has won the Tories have gone very quiet about immigration. In fact they have dropped all the targets and any talk of getting immigration back to the levels of tens of thousands has stopped.
Ultimately Brexit will not deliver what those who voted for it, thought it would. An agreement will probably be announced right at the very last minute and it will satisfy nobody.
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I feel a capitulation coming from Johnson leaving us with a situation that we may as well have stayed in when you dig down in to the weeds and assess the deal .
There's going to be some very angry people in my opinion .
We voted to leave not compromise .
But therein lies the problem. Nobody knew what "Leave" was back in 2016, and you're not telling me everyone who voted Leave voted for no deal.
They voted against the four freedoms Janso and any alignment to that with a trade deal is treachery of the highest order in my opinion .
WTF has a post-Brexit trade deal got to do with the Single Market Freedoms? F**k all as far as I can see. Still, if in your mind it means that we have no post-Brexit trade deals whatsoever - with anybody, because they're always a compromise - as long as you're happy for the entire economy to go tits up as a result, who cares?
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I feel a capitulation coming from Johnson leaving us with a situation that we may as well have stayed in when you dig down in to the weeds and assess the deal .
There's going to be some very angry people in my opinion .
We voted to leave not compromise .
But therein lies the problem. Nobody knew what "Leave" was back in 2016, and you're not telling me everyone who voted Leave voted for no deal.
They voted against the four freedoms Janso and any alignment to that with a trade deal is treachery of the highest order in my opinion .
WTF has a post-Brexit trade deal got to do with the Single Market Freedoms? F**k all as far as I can see. Still, if in your mind it means that we have no post-Brexit trade deals whatsoever - with anybody, because they're always a compromise - as long as you're happy for the entire economy to go tits up as a result, who cares?
So why do the French believe they have the same access to our waters as they did whilst we were members of the EU ? .
The economy going tits up is another interesting one , the economy goes tits up at regular intervals , did in the 80's , the 90's , 2008 and will do multiple times again .
Membership of the EU doesn't shield you from anything as far as I can see .
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Tyke.
Of course economies slump at times.
But it is unprecedented for a country to wilfully CHOOSE to cut 5-10% off its GDP as a matter of freely chosen policy.
It's bordering on the insane.
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I feel a capitulation coming from Johnson leaving us with a situation that we may as well have stayed in when you dig down in to the weeds and assess the deal .
There's going to be some very angry people in my opinion .
We voted to leave not compromise .
But therein lies the problem. Nobody knew what "Leave" was back in 2016, and you're not telling me everyone who voted Leave voted for no deal.
They voted against the four freedoms Janso and any alignment to that with a trade deal is treachery of the highest order in my opinion .
WTF has a post-Brexit trade deal got to do with the Single Market Freedoms? F**k all as far as I can see. Still, if in your mind it means that we have no post-Brexit trade deals whatsoever - with anybody, because they're always a compromise - as long as you're happy for the entire economy to go tits up as a result, who cares?
So why do the French believe they have the same access to our waters as they did whilst we were members of the EU ? .
The economy going tits up is another interesting one , the economy goes tits up at regular intervals , did in the 80's , the 90's , 2008 and will do multiple times again .
Membership of the EU doesn't shield you from anything as far as I can see .
What the French believe is irrelevant, so I don't care why they think it. It's nothing to do with a trade deal whatsoever, so how about sticking to the subject?
As for economic slumps, yes, economies go in cycles. Up and down. Damaging your own economy on a permanent basis isn't part of an economic cycle.
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So why do the French believe they have the same access to our waters as they did whilst we were members of the EU ? .
Presumably for the same reason we believe we can 'have our cake and eat it' and thus have the same access rights to the EU SM as a non-member that we did as a member.
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What an empty vessel Brexit has become. A sort of ghost ship bobbing along on the sea.
No one seems to give a stuff anymore, certainly not in Government. It's become a bit of a millstone hasn't it, like sh*t that they can't get off their shoe.
My take is that it could go either way; no deal or a sh*ite deal. Irrespective, after 1 Jan we'll have to start kissing ass with the EU again to try and tap into its markets. It'll take ten years to get back to where we are now. If we're lucky.
Of course, there are those who seem to believe that we have a team of government negotiators just chomping at the bit to go out and land some incredible deals with a whole raft of non-EU countries.
That'd be our 'worldbeating' team of government negotiators, many of whom have never had a proper job let alone negotiated anything.
It's a bit like the little, fat, balding bloke who leaves his wife after 30 years in the belief that he'll now be free to go after some supermodel half his age.
Sad. Deluded.
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Back onto the subject topic this is pretty much what I think, Cummings 'departure' and Biden's victory have made a deal more likely - but by no means certain because (from Peter Oborne):
Cummings’ Vote Leave group has long argued that Britain must threaten a ‘no deal’ Brexit – with all the risks that involves in terms of economic consequences. In contrast, most Cabinet ministers are now arguing with great force that Johnson must strike a deal. It looks like Cummings has lost the argument.
https://bylinetimes.com/2020/11/20/how-brexit-and-biden-fuelled-chaos-inside-downing-street/
I expect a deal to be struck very soon. When this happens, we can expect a major explosion inside the Conservative Party – above all from Cummings’ Vote Leave faction.
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I feel a capitulation coming from Johnson leaving us with a situation that we may as well have stayed in when you dig down in to the weeds and assess the deal .
There's going to be some very angry people in my opinion .
We voted to leave not compromise .
But therein lies the problem. Nobody knew what "Leave" was back in 2016, and you're not telling me everyone who voted Leave voted for no deal.
They voted against the four freedoms Janso and any alignment to that with a trade deal is treachery of the highest order in my opinion .
WTF has a post-Brexit trade deal got to do with the Single Market Freedoms? F**k all as far as I can see. Still, if in your mind it means that we have no post-Brexit trade deals whatsoever - with anybody, because they're always a compromise - as long as you're happy for the entire economy to go tits up as a result, who cares?
So why do the French believe they have the same access to our waters as they did whilst we were members of the EU ? .
The economy going tits up is another interesting one , the economy goes tits up at regular intervals , did in the 80's , the 90's , 2008 and will do multiple times again .
Membership of the EU doesn't shield you from anything as far as I can see .
What the French believe is irrelevant, so I don't care why they think it. It's nothing to do with a trade deal whatsoever, so how about sticking to the subject?
As for economic slumps, yes, economies go in cycles. Up and down. Damaging your own economy on a permanent basis isn't part of an economic cycle.
How on earth can what the french believe be irrelevant in trade negotiations when we will shortly have control over our waters as to who fishes here and more to the point where that fish is sold .
It's also relevant because the UK exports the fish it catches and imports the fish we eat .
That's called trade I believe .
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I feel a capitulation coming from Johnson leaving us with a situation that we may as well have stayed in when you dig down in to the weeds and assess the deal .
There's going to be some very angry people in my opinion .
We voted to leave not compromise .
But therein lies the problem. Nobody knew what "Leave" was back in 2016, and you're not telling me everyone who voted Leave voted for no deal.
They voted against the four freedoms Janso and any alignment to that with a trade deal is treachery of the highest order in my opinion .
WTF has a post-Brexit trade deal got to do with the Single Market Freedoms? F**k all as far as I can see. Still, if in your mind it means that we have no post-Brexit trade deals whatsoever - with anybody, because they're always a compromise - as long as you're happy for the entire economy to go tits up as a result, who cares?
So why do the French believe they have the same access to our waters as they did whilst we were members of the EU ? .
The economy going tits up is another interesting one , the economy goes tits up at regular intervals , did in the 80's , the 90's , 2008 and will do multiple times again .
Membership of the EU doesn't shield you from anything as far as I can see .
What the French believe is irrelevant, so I don't care why they think it. It's nothing to do with a trade deal whatsoever, so how about sticking to the subject?
As for economic slumps, yes, economies go in cycles. Up and down. Damaging your own economy on a permanent basis isn't part of an economic cycle.
Many people who voted leave aren't bothered about economics , it's the one thing remainers have never got .
They are more concerned about their culture and communities and democracy getting upheld .
In other words economics is a bystander by comparison to their culture and communities .
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That's a very pertinent observation Tyke. The remain side continually emphasised the economic impacts of Brexit but it never really gained any traction with Brexit supporters.
Michael Caine summed up the attitude with the "I'd rather be a poor master than a wealthy servant" quote.
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The footsie is tipped to hit 9000
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Easy for Michael Caine to say that, when he's never going to be a poor servant.
I humbly suggest that those who say this is about principle rather than wealth have not internalised what a 10% loss in GDP over an extended period will mean to their day to day lives.
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Easy for Michael Caine to say that, when he's never going to be a poor servant.
I humbly suggest that those who say this is about principle rather than wealth have not internalised what a 10% loss in GDP over an extended period will mean to their day to day lives.
Aye , that's what Thatcher always said when she was asking you to sell your soul for 20 BT shares .
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I feel a capitulation coming from Johnson leaving us with a situation that we may as well have stayed in when you dig down in to the weeds and assess the deal .
There's going to be some very angry people in my opinion .
We voted to leave not compromise .
But therein lies the problem. Nobody knew what "Leave" was back in 2016, and you're not telling me everyone who voted Leave voted for no deal.
They voted against the four freedoms Janso and any alignment to that with a trade deal is treachery of the highest order in my opinion .
WTF has a post-Brexit trade deal got to do with the Single Market Freedoms? F**k all as far as I can see. Still, if in your mind it means that we have no post-Brexit trade deals whatsoever - with anybody, because they're always a compromise - as long as you're happy for the entire economy to go tits up as a result, who cares?
So why do the French believe they have the same access to our waters as they did whilst we were members of the EU ? .
The economy going tits up is another interesting one , the economy goes tits up at regular intervals , did in the 80's , the 90's , 2008 and will do multiple times again .
Membership of the EU doesn't shield you from anything as far as I can see .
What the French believe is irrelevant, so I don't care why they think it. It's nothing to do with a trade deal whatsoever, so how about sticking to the subject?
As for economic slumps, yes, economies go in cycles. Up and down. Damaging your own economy on a permanent basis isn't part of an economic cycle.
How on earth can what the french believe be irrelevant in trade negotiations when we will shortly have control over our waters as to who fishes here and more to the point where that fish is sold .
It's also relevant because the UK exports the fish it catches and imports the fish we eat .
That's called trade I believe .
We're talking about deals, not negotiations.
PS We've already sold control of our waters so, no, we won't get it back like you think we will. It certainly isn't up for any negotiations.
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I feel a capitulation coming from Johnson leaving us with a situation that we may as well have stayed in when you dig down in to the weeds and assess the deal .
There's going to be some very angry people in my opinion .
We voted to leave not compromise .
But therein lies the problem. Nobody knew what "Leave" was back in 2016, and you're not telling me everyone who voted Leave voted for no deal.
They voted against the four freedoms Janso and any alignment to that with a trade deal is treachery of the highest order in my opinion .
WTF has a post-Brexit trade deal got to do with the Single Market Freedoms? F**k all as far as I can see. Still, if in your mind it means that we have no post-Brexit trade deals whatsoever - with anybody, because they're always a compromise - as long as you're happy for the entire economy to go tits up as a result, who cares?
So why do the French believe they have the same access to our waters as they did whilst we were members of the EU ? .
The economy going tits up is another interesting one , the economy goes tits up at regular intervals , did in the 80's , the 90's , 2008 and will do multiple times again .
Membership of the EU doesn't shield you from anything as far as I can see .
What the French believe is irrelevant, so I don't care why they think it. It's nothing to do with a trade deal whatsoever, so how about sticking to the subject?
As for economic slumps, yes, economies go in cycles. Up and down. Damaging your own economy on a permanent basis isn't part of an economic cycle.
Many people who voted leave aren't bothered about economics , it's the one thing remainers have never got .
They are more concerned about their culture and communities and democracy getting upheld .
In other words economics is a bystander by comparison to their culture and communities .
The Four Freedoms that YOU said were they reasons people voted they way they did are all economic freedoms...yet you now say economics wasn't why they voted at all! You can't even keep your own story straight.
If people are more concerned about their culture, they should take their televisions and their DVD and music collections and BURN them. British culture is most under attack from American culture than any other country's culture on Earth. And they aren't even living in this country.
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I feel a capitulation coming from Johnson leaving us with a situation that we may as well have stayed in when you dig down in to the weeds and assess the deal .
There's going to be some very angry people in my opinion .
We voted to leave not compromise .
But therein lies the problem. Nobody knew what "Leave" was back in 2016, and you're not telling me everyone who voted Leave voted for no deal.
They voted against the four freedoms Janso and any alignment to that with a trade deal is treachery of the highest order in my opinion .
WTF has a post-Brexit trade deal got to do with the Single Market Freedoms? F**k all as far as I can see. Still, if in your mind it means that we have no post-Brexit trade deals whatsoever - with anybody, because they're always a compromise - as long as you're happy for the entire economy to go tits up as a result, who cares?
So why do the French believe they have the same access to our waters as they did whilst we were members of the EU ? .
The economy going tits up is another interesting one , the economy goes tits up at regular intervals , did in the 80's , the 90's , 2008 and will do multiple times again .
Membership of the EU doesn't shield you from anything as far as I can see .
What the French believe is irrelevant, so I don't care why they think it. It's nothing to do with a trade deal whatsoever, so how about sticking to the subject?
As for economic slumps, yes, economies go in cycles. Up and down. Damaging your own economy on a permanent basis isn't part of an economic cycle.
Many people who voted leave aren't bothered about economics , it's the one thing remainers have never got .
They are more concerned about their culture and communities and democracy getting upheld .
In other words economics is a bystander by comparison to their culture and communities .
The Four Freedoms that YOU said were they reasons people voted they way they did are all economic freedoms...yet you now say economics wasn't why they voted at all! You can't even keep your own story straight.
If people are more concerned about their culture, they should take their televisions and their DVD and music collections and BURN them. British culture is most under attack from American culture than any other country's culture on Earth. And they aren't even living in this country.
So you are saying that the free movement of goods , capital , services and people across the EU zone has no affect on communities or culture and only brings economic prosperity ? .
If that's what you believe then no wonder you lost the referendum .
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I feel a capitulation coming from Johnson leaving us with a situation that we may as well have stayed in when you dig down in to the weeds and assess the deal .
There's going to be some very angry people in my opinion .
We voted to leave not compromise .
But therein lies the problem. Nobody knew what "Leave" was back in 2016, and you're not telling me everyone who voted Leave voted for no deal.
They voted against the four freedoms Janso and any alignment to that with a trade deal is treachery of the highest order in my opinion .
WTF has a post-Brexit trade deal got to do with the Single Market Freedoms? F**k all as far as I can see. Still, if in your mind it means that we have no post-Brexit trade deals whatsoever - with anybody, because they're always a compromise - as long as you're happy for the entire economy to go tits up as a result, who cares?
So why do the French believe they have the same access to our waters as they did whilst we were members of the EU ? .
The economy going tits up is another interesting one , the economy goes tits up at regular intervals , did in the 80's , the 90's , 2008 and will do multiple times again .
Membership of the EU doesn't shield you from anything as far as I can see .
What the French believe is irrelevant, so I don't care why they think it. It's nothing to do with a trade deal whatsoever, so how about sticking to the subject?
As for economic slumps, yes, economies go in cycles. Up and down. Damaging your own economy on a permanent basis isn't part of an economic cycle.
Many people who voted leave aren't bothered about economics , it's the one thing remainers have never got .
They are more concerned about their culture and communities and democracy getting upheld .
In other words economics is a bystander by comparison to their culture and communities .
The Four Freedoms that YOU said were they reasons people voted they way they did are all economic freedoms...yet you now say economics wasn't why they voted at all! You can't even keep your own story straight.
If people are more concerned about their culture, they should take their televisions and their DVD and music collections and BURN them. British culture is most under attack from American culture than any other country's culture on Earth. And they aren't even living in this country.
So you are saying that the free movement of goods , capital , services and people across the EU zone has no affect on communities or culture and only brings economic prosperity ? .
If that's what you believe then no wonder you lost the referendum .
Goods - no.
Capital - no.
Services - no.
People - slightly.
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Tyke.
What don't you like about foreign workers coming to our communities?
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Perhaps we should permanently shut down Indian, Chinese and Italian restaurants and protect our culture!
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I feel a capitulation coming from Johnson leaving us with a situation that we may as well have stayed in when you dig down in to the weeds and assess the deal .
There's going to be some very angry people in my opinion .
We voted to leave not compromise .
But therein lies the problem. Nobody knew what "Leave" was back in 2016, and you're not telling me everyone who voted Leave voted for no deal.
They voted against the four freedoms Janso and any alignment to that with a trade deal is treachery of the highest order in my opinion .
WTF has a post-Brexit trade deal got to do with the Single Market Freedoms? F**k all as far as I can see. Still, if in your mind it means that we have no post-Brexit trade deals whatsoever - with anybody, because they're always a compromise - as long as you're happy for the entire economy to go tits up as a result, who cares?
So why do the French believe they have the same access to our waters as they did whilst we were members of the EU ? .
The economy going tits up is another interesting one , the economy goes tits up at regular intervals , did in the 80's , the 90's , 2008 and will do multiple times again .
Membership of the EU doesn't shield you from anything as far as I can see .
What the French believe is irrelevant, so I don't care why they think it. It's nothing to do with a trade deal whatsoever, so how about sticking to the subject?
As for economic slumps, yes, economies go in cycles. Up and down. Damaging your own economy on a permanent basis isn't part of an economic cycle.
How on earth can what the french believe be irrelevant in trade negotiations when we will shortly have control over our waters as to who fishes here and more to the point where that fish is sold .
It's also relevant because the UK exports the fish it catches and imports the fish we eat .
That's called trade I believe .
We're talking about deals, not negotiations.
PS We've already sold control of our waters so, no, we won't get it back like you think we will. It certainly isn't up for any negotiations.
The argument is about where foreign boats land their catch .
Clearly if they are forced by UK regulation to land their catch in the UK then clearly we gain the economic benefit .
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I feel a capitulation coming from Johnson leaving us with a situation that we may as well have stayed in when you dig down in to the weeds and assess the deal .
There's going to be some very angry people in my opinion .
We voted to leave not compromise .
But therein lies the problem. Nobody knew what "Leave" was back in 2016, and you're not telling me everyone who voted Leave voted for no deal.
They voted against the four freedoms Janso and any alignment to that with a trade deal is treachery of the highest order in my opinion .
WTF has a post-Brexit trade deal got to do with the Single Market Freedoms? F**k all as far as I can see. Still, if in your mind it means that we have no post-Brexit trade deals whatsoever - with anybody, because they're always a compromise - as long as you're happy for the entire economy to go tits up as a result, who cares?
So why do the French believe they have the same access to our waters as they did whilst we were members of the EU ? .
The economy going tits up is another interesting one , the economy goes tits up at regular intervals , did in the 80's , the 90's , 2008 and will do multiple times again .
Membership of the EU doesn't shield you from anything as far as I can see .
What the French believe is irrelevant, so I don't care why they think it. It's nothing to do with a trade deal whatsoever, so how about sticking to the subject?
As for economic slumps, yes, economies go in cycles. Up and down. Damaging your own economy on a permanent basis isn't part of an economic cycle.
How on earth can what the french believe be irrelevant in trade negotiations when we will shortly have control over our waters as to who fishes here and more to the point where that fish is sold .
It's also relevant because the UK exports the fish it catches and imports the fish we eat .
That's called trade I believe .
We're talking about deals, not negotiations.
PS We've already sold control of our waters so, no, we won't get it back like you think we will. It certainly isn't up for any negotiations.
The argument is about where foreign boats land their catch .
Clearly if they are forced by UK regulation to land their catch in the UK then clearly we gain the economic benefit .
UK regulations can force no such thing. Go look up UK waters fishing quotas, FFS.
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Tyke.
What don't you like about foreign workers coming to our communities?
Because of the speed and numbers arriving in the UK it has changed the social fabric of communities we live in and I don't care for it thanks very much .
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I feel a capitulation coming from Johnson leaving us with a situation that we may as well have stayed in when you dig down in to the weeds and assess the deal .
There's going to be some very angry people in my opinion .
We voted to leave not compromise .
But therein lies the problem. Nobody knew what "Leave" was back in 2016, and you're not telling me everyone who voted Leave voted for no deal.
They voted against the four freedoms Janso and any alignment to that with a trade deal is treachery of the highest order in my opinion .
WTF has a post-Brexit trade deal got to do with the Single Market Freedoms? F**k all as far as I can see. Still, if in your mind it means that we have no post-Brexit trade deals whatsoever - with anybody, because they're always a compromise - as long as you're happy for the entire economy to go tits up as a result, who cares?
So why do the French believe they have the same access to our waters as they did whilst we were members of the EU ? .
The economy going tits up is another interesting one , the economy goes tits up at regular intervals , did in the 80's , the 90's , 2008 and will do multiple times again .
Membership of the EU doesn't shield you from anything as far as I can see .
Because we sold the rights to fish in 'our waters' many years ago for a quick buck. Something we're really good, (bad actually), at....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/52420116
https://unearthed.greenpeace.org/2019/03/07/fishing-brexit-uk-fleetwood/
But hey, Brexiters can't see the wood for the trees - it was always thus! Give em a few sound-bites, chuck in a few lies, and they'll follow like sheep!
I'm lucky, I'm well cushioned from the probable effects of a no deal Brexit, but part of me actually wants it to be No Deal just so the crazy less well off fcukwits who voted for it can find out just exactly what they voted for! The other, much larger part of me, hopes that the government will come to its senses and strike a deal so that these same less well off people won't have to suffer any more than they are actually doing right now.
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Tyke.
What don't you like about foreign workers coming to our communities?
Because of the speed and numbers arriving in the UK it has changed the social fabric of communities we live in and I don't care for it thanks very much .
Best complain about this then....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54972671
I wonder why English folk aren't clamouring to take on this kind of work? Maybe you'd like to volunteer seeing as you seem to be opposed to them coming here to do the jobs local people won't?
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Tyke.
What don't you like about foreign workers coming to our communities?
Because of the speed and numbers arriving in the UK it has changed the social fabric of communities we live in and I don't care for it thanks very much .
Do you have any Irish Catholic heritage?
One half of my family came over from Ireland 130 years ago in a tsunami of immigrants who came and worked down the pit. They transformed communities' social background in a matter of years. To a far larger extent than
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Perhaps we should permanently shut down Indian, Chinese and Italian restaurants and protect our culture!
That's exactly the kind of extreme statement to back up your beliefs that will keep Labour out of power for a long long time .
That's exactly the type of attitude that led to Tory votes in the red wall .
We've had Chinese , Indian and Italian restaurants in the UK for as long as I can remember and none of them ever threatened the social fabric of communities what so ever .
In comparison to mass migration at the speed we've seen and the impact on the social fabric of communities your post is absolutely laughable .
The local Chinese changed the social fabric of Darfield , don't think so .
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Tyke.
What don't you like about foreign workers coming to our communities?
Because of the speed and numbers arriving in the UK it has changed the social fabric of communities we live in and I don't care for it thanks very much .
Do you have any Irish Catholic heritage?
One half of my family came over from Ireland 130 years ago in a tsunami of immigrants who came and worked down the pit. They transformed communities' social background in a matter of years. To a far larger extent than
Not sure what comparison I'm supposed to draw from that Billy given I wasn't born 130 years ago and I'm sure you'd agree we live in totally different times today .
Then again I've never understood why Labour people such as yourself tied themselves in to market economics and neoliberalism which is what the EU is all about .
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Tyke.
What don't you like about foreign workers coming to our communities?
Because of the speed and numbers arriving in the UK it has changed the social fabric of communities we live in and I don't care for it thanks very much .
I guess you agree with this decision Tyke?
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/nov/22/windrush-victim-refused-british-citizenship-despite-wrongful-passport-confiscation
Very revealing about you!
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Easy for Michael Caine to say that, when he's never going to be a poor servant.
I humbly suggest that those who say this is about principle rather than wealth have not internalised what a 10% loss in GDP over an extended period will mean to their day to day lives.
I understand, anything that pulls back the rate of growth will hit those at the bottom of the ladder most. So it's in everyone's interest to see growth, growth, growth. Stay in the EU and engage with it for maximise growth, nothing else matters. Except we have never seen economic growth without a corresponding increase in carbon emissions and year in year out emissions grow. Not fall a little bit, not even stabilise.
I don't want to see people suffer but it means we're stuck on this treadmill of growth on a road to nowhere. It really makes me feel weary. It's depressing.
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Was that a "yes" or a "no" Tyke?
I'm saying that, if you yourself, as I am, are a product of mass economic migration, you perhaps have a responsibility to ponder on that before voting for economic harm to be imposed on you and yours because you dislike economic migration.
You are saying that you don't like your community being changed. Neither did the Anglo-Saxon "native" (sic) residents of Denaby and Conisbrough, the kids of whom used to throw half setters at us "Fenians" as we walked to our Fenian school in the 70s. That experience colours my take on how we see "The Other".
My take is also coloured by the fact that one of my kids' grandfathers came to London as an economic migrant in 1972. He's the sort who you instinctively wouldn't have wanted in your community. He actually became a central figure in the social and cultural life of his area of town, setting up youth clubs, Sunday schools and street parties. I'd prefer him as a neighbour than many "ethnic English" (sic) that I actually grew up living next to.
My take? Economic migration has always happened, will always happen, and is generally, on balance, with obvious frictions along the way, a net positive for both the migrant and the recipient country. Culturally, economically and socially.
Finally, you are totally changing the subject talking about the EU's economic philosophy, but I'll answer. There's not going to be a socialist revolution anytime soon. We live in a capitalist economic society. Given that we do, I want the worst excesses of capitalism reined in and controlled. I want workers' rights enshrined in law. Environmental controls. Health and safety legislation to protect people from abuse. The EU has underwritten all that across a continent that has been riven by conflict and exploitation of workers and the environment for centuries.
The Bennites who hate the EU because it seems to be the block to socialism are away with the fairies. And dangerously so, because, in indulging their principles, like you did, they have cut us adrift from that protection and given our futures to Johnson, Rees-Mogg and Raab. For them to mold how they want, without the limitations set on them by the EU.
You will insist that you have done nothing of the sort, but just take a step back and look at the situation dispassionately and it is precisely what you have done.
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Tyke.
What don't you like about foreign workers coming to our communities?
Because of the speed and numbers arriving in the UK it has changed the social fabric of communities we live in and I don't care for it thanks very much .
I guess you agree with this decision Tyke?
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/nov/22/windrush-victim-refused-british-citizenship-despite-wrongful-passport-confiscation
Very revealing about you!
Unfortunately your doing Glyn's trick by being extreme and trying to expose me as a racist which seems to be the liberal lefts play book .
Pretty disgusting really but also unsurprising either .
If we don't agree with such as yourself on immigration then we are racists .
To be honest you ain't even worth the bother , dear me .
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I watched Countryfile this evening. They explained how the government plans to shake up the planning system and basically do away with the green belt. It's all ok though. It turns out farm land isn't particularly green. We can build over a shit load of it just so long as we plant a few trees and create some wild parkland.
I thought it sounded like a load of balls, since basically it means we pour a whole load more concrete over green space. But we're going to need to do this to accommodate the required growth which is vital. After all we need much more of this economic migration. The government are basically going to set up growth zones where local residents concerns can be ignored so the builders can let rip. That should go down well in leafy Oxfordshire, which is one site earmarked for this.
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Tyke.
What don't you like about foreign workers coming to our communities?
Because of the speed and numbers arriving in the UK it has changed the social fabric of communities we live in and I don't care for it thanks very much .
I guess you agree with this decision Tyke?
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/nov/22/windrush-victim-refused-british-citizenship-despite-wrongful-passport-confiscation
Very revealing about you!
Unfortunately your doing Glyn's trick by being extreme and trying to expose me as a racist which seems to be the liberal lefts play book .
Pretty disgusting really but also unsurprising either .
If we don't agree with such as yourself on immigration then we are racists .
To be honest you ain't even worth the bother , dear me .
You're not alone Tyke. They've used racism as their 'joker' card all along.
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Perhaps we should permanently shut down Indian, Chinese and Italian restaurants and protect our culture!
That's exactly the kind of extreme statement to back up your beliefs that will keep Labour out of power for a long long time .
That's exactly the type of attitude that led to Tory votes in the red wall .
We've had Chinese , Indian and Italian restaurants in the UK for as long as I can remember and none of them ever threatened the social fabric of communities what so ever .
In comparison to mass migration at the speed we've seen and the impact on the social fabric of communities your post is absolutely laughable .
The local Chinese changed the social fabric of Darfield , don't think so .
I was taking the piss because that's where your logic eventually ends.
So let me get this right...the people who own, run and staff non-British food establishments and therefore also live in our communities don't change British culture in any way even though they must sell a lot of their non-British muck to make a living from it; it's the ones who don't work in food establishments but live in our communities that somehow 'change the social fabric', whatever that's supposed to be a euphemism for. Is that right?
Burnt your telly yet?
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Good thing we don't have huge communities of Brits living in foreign towns and cities, isn't it.
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Good thing we don't have huge communities of Brits living in foreign towns and cities, isn't it.
It is! There were almost three times more EU immigrants living in the UK than Brits living elsewhere in the entire EU.
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Almost everything about the so-called british culture is imported from tobacco and spuds to tea, coffee, spices and people.
Genetic study reveals 30% of white British DNA has German ancestry
Analysis over 20 years reveals heavy Anglo-Saxon influence, with French and Danish DNA coming from earlier migrations than the Normans or Vikings.
There is no 'our' culture it's a shared culture.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/mar/18/genetic-study-30-percent-white-british-dna-german-ancestry
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Almost everything about the so-called british culture is imported from tobacco and spuds to tea, coffee, spices and people.
Genetic study reveals 30% of white British DNA has German ancestry
Analysis over 20 years reveals heavy Anglo-Saxon influence, with French and Danish DNA coming from earlier migrations than the Normans or Vikings.
There is no 'our' culture it's a shared culture.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/mar/18/genetic-study-30-percent-white-british-dna-german-ancestry
I disagree Sydney. People from Scawsby have pure noble blood.
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The name Scawsby has Scandinavian origins.
It probably began as a Danish farmstead.
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Tyke.
What don't you like about foreign workers coming to our communities?
Because of the speed and numbers arriving in the UK it has changed the social fabric of communities we live in and I don't care for it thanks very much .
I guess you agree with this decision Tyke?
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/nov/22/windrush-victim-refused-british-citizenship-despite-wrongful-passport-confiscation
Very revealing about you!
Unfortunately your doing Glyn's trick by being extreme and trying to expose me as a racist which seems to be the liberal lefts play book .
Pretty disgusting really but also unsurprising either .
If we don't agree with such as yourself on immigration then we are racists .
To be honest you ain't even worth the bother , dear me .
I never mentioned racism Tyke. I asked a streighforward question to which you obfuscated rather than answered. The answer was simple, either Yes or No. I note also that you avoided both of my previous posts - speaks volumes about you really. If anyone isn't worth the bother it's you Tyke. Pity we don't have an ignore function on this forum - you'd certainly be on it.
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NNK, you do have the option to ignore a poster.
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The name Scawsby has Scandinavian origins.
It probably began as a Danish farmstead.
Does that mean we'll still get Danish bacon?
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The name Scawsby has Scandinavian origins.
It probably began as a Danish farmstead.
Does that mean we'll still get Danish bacon?
I expect so, Danish bacon is factory farmed and exported widely. I doubt they stop importing it into the UK, it might become a bit more expensive though. You're be better off going to a local butcher and paying a bit more for some better quality local stuff anyway.
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Yes, buy British, because British is best!
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When it comes to bacon, British isn't a bad bet. Perhaps better advice is expect locally produced food from a smaller, local producer to be of higher quality. Wherever you happen to be.
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So, not much change there then?
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Buying local can be more expensive, so don't expected much change. No.
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Tyke.
What don't you like about foreign workers coming to our communities?
Because of the speed and numbers arriving in the UK it has changed the social fabric of communities we live in and I don't care for it thanks very much .
I guess you agree with this decision Tyke?
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/nov/22/windrush-victim-refused-british-citizenship-despite-wrongful-passport-confiscation
Very revealing about you!
Unfortunately your doing Glyn's trick by being extreme and trying to expose me as a racist which seems to be the liberal lefts play book .
Pretty disgusting really but also unsurprising either .
If we don't agree with such as yourself on immigration then we are racists .
To be honest you ain't even worth the bother , dear me .
I'm not doing that, I'm exposing your crap logic for what it is - crap logic. If you think by doing so I'm trying to label anyone as racist you can f**k yourself.
Saying that's what I'm doing is a good way for you to avoid addressing the issue, though, isn't it?
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Buying local can be more expensive, so don't expected much change. No.
Buying from a local producer is more expensive now, so not much change then.
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Everyone's descended from immigrants, its just a matter of how far back you go
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Of course there will be a deal, Even the so called no deal is an agreed deal.
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There will be a deal because BJ is intent on screwing over his new northern voters. Pointless lockdown, check. Ban petrol and diesel cars, check, go brown nosing to the EU, check. Job done.
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Of course there will be a deal, Even the so called no deal is an agreed deal.
You are Donald Trump and I claim my £5.
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Well 'strong rumours' on t'internet tonight (from the German press) that the German Car Industry ARE about to turn up. And take Nissan away with them to relocate in the EU.
Guess we shall see soon enough if this is true.
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Well 'strong rumours' on t'internet tonight (from the German press) that the German Car Industry ARE about to turn up. And take Nissan away with them to relocate in the EU.
Guess we shall see soon enough if this is true.
Nissan have been garbage since they got into bed with Renault.
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Well 'strong rumours' on t'internet tonight (from the German press) that the German Car Industry ARE about to turn up. And take Nissan away with them to relocate in the EU.
Guess we shall see soon enough if this is true.
Nissan have been garbage since they got into bed with Renault.
Does that matter? It'd still decimate Sunderland.
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There will be a deal because BJ is intent on screwing over his new northern voters.
Oxymoron?
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Well 'strong rumours' on t'internet tonight (from the German press) that the German Car Industry ARE about to turn up. And take Nissan away with them to relocate in the EU.
Guess we shall see soon enough if this is true.
Nissan have been garbage since they got into bed with Renault.
Does that matter? It'd still decimate Sunderland.
Doesn't matter, but is true. The quality on ours is not particularly good and won't be getting one again.
However, it has been denied by Nissan. What we must remember is as the clock ticks and a deal (or not) becomes closer, there will be 'stories' in all sorts of areas designed to build pressure in all directions. Some may well be true, some will not be.
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Nobody says Mercedes are rubbish since they use the same engines from Renault Axholme or Dacia.
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Nobody says Mercedes are rubbish since they use the same engines from Renault Axholme or Dacia.
I can only go on my own experience and I previously had twelve years working for Renault. Each to their own I suppose, I just prefer the reliability of cars made in Japan, however if we all drove the same cars it would be very boring.
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There will be a deal because BJ is intent on screwing over his new northern voters. Pointless lockdown, check. Ban petrol and diesel cars, check, go brown nosing to the EU, check. Job done.
He's screwing his traditional voters down south too....
https://www.kentonline.co.uk/folkestone/news/brexit-trial-creates-lorry-queue-at-eurotunnel-237992/
No, actually, he's simply enacting the will of the people who voted Leave - after all, they knew what they were voting for didn't they.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's called 'taking back control', isn't it?
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Deal or no deal, it's good to know we're fully prepared....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-55137997
....for the chaos leave voters have bestowed upon us!
Still, it seems that all those people with holiday homes in the EU are perfectly happy with what they voted for....
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9000815/Furious-British-expats-blast-EUs-new-post-Brexit-travel-rules.html
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Surely that wold be better called, "Operation Smack Your f**king Head Against The Wall."
It's like some badly written comedy script. A modern country, with fantastic infrastructure and transport links to the biggest single economic market in the history of mankind, choosing to put up f**king roadblocks to make it harder to trade with them.
Just take a step back and imagine what this looks like to the rest of the world. They think we have gone batshit.
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But, but, but, what about all those Unicorns BST?
(https://i.imgur.com/8WRSXjn.jpg)
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Just posted by Robert Peston on his blog, the government's offical assesment of 'reasonable worst case scenario' if there is No Deal (my guess is it has been 'leaked' to prepare the zealots for Johnson signing up to what he promised he wouldn't, but who knows with that charlatan):
1) Flow rates of medicines and medical products "could initially reduce to 60-80% over three months which, if unmitigated, would impact on the supply of medicines and medical products across the UK".
2) "Protests and counter-protests will take place across the UK and may absorb significant amounts of police resources. There may also be a rise in public disorder and community tensions."
3) "EU and UK fishers could clash over the lost access to historic fishing grounds, and there could be a significant uplift in illegal fishing activities."
4) "Competing demands on UK government and devolved administration maritime agencies and their assets could put [maritime security] enforcement and response capabilities at risk."
5) There will be "reduced [food] supply availability, especially of certain fresh products" and "supply of some critical dependencies for the food supply chain... could be reduced".
6) "Low income groups will be disproportionately affected by any price rises in food and fuel."
7) "Border delays, tariffs and new regulatory barriers/costs may result in disruption to supply of critical chemicals used in the UK... leading to the disruption of essential services (such as food, energy, water and medicine). Economic factors could result in some chemicals suppliers reducing operations or closing."
8) "Border delays could affect local fuel disruption. There will not be wider national-level oil shortage."
9) There is a risk of a reduction in the supply of medicines for UK veterinary use which "would reduce our ability to prevent and control disease outbreaks, with potential detrimental impacts for animal health and welfare, the environment, wider food safety/availability and zoonotic disease control which can directly impact human health".
10) "Between 40-70% of trucks travelling to the EU might not be ready for new border controls. This could reduce flow across the short channel crossing to 60-80% of normal levels with maximum queues of 7,000 trucks in Kent and delays of two days. The worst disruption would subside within three months".
11) The transition from "internal security cooperation with the EU" to "non-EU mechanisms" may not be smooth and seamless and may "result in a mutual reduction in capability to tackle crime and terrorism".
12) Around one in 20 local authorities are at risk of financial collapse as a result of higher service demand caused by a disruptive EU exit.
So, higher food and fuel prices, with greater risk of disease and terrorism.
That's as published by the people who lead the Leave Campaign. Still at least we 'took back control'.
Anyone seen the German Car Industry - they are taking their time...
https://www.itv.com/news/2020-12-06/the-12-reasonable-worst-case-outcomes-if-brexit-talks-collapse
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Wilts.
That was leaked to the Guardian about a fortnight. Peston is doing his usual job of reporting when he is told it is convenient by No10.
It is beyond belief that a UK Govt may choose this as policy. Just beyond belief.
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#ProjectFear m8.
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Johnson and his govt are screwed either way. The french won’t accept anything other than near total unfettered acres to our waters as anything less will spell disaster for the whole North French coast fishing industry. Macron has also said he would veto anything less.
Theresa May said no deal is better than a bad deal.
Fact is, we simply have no idea how economically damaging no deal will be.
Any negative impact from no deal will be seen by many as a failure of the current uk govt.
So it’s a poison chalice.
Damned if they do, damned if they don’t.
I’ve read reports that the Navy have a fisheries protection fleet that is being bolstered in the event of no deal.
I can see things getting very messy in the waters off our coast. And we know what happens next. Expect blockades by the french at the ports in retaliation. They may not be the best when it comes to world wars, but they are pretty good at shutting things down.
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Johnson and his govt are screwed either way. The french won’t accept anything other than near total unfettered acres to our waters as anything less will spell disaster for the whole North French coast fishing industry. Macron has also said he would veto anything less.
Theresa May said no deal is better than a bad deal.
Fact is, we simply have no idea how economically damaging no deal will be.
Any negative impact from no deal will be seen by many as a failure of the current uk govt.
So it’s a poison chalice.
Damned if they do, damned if they don’t.
I’ve read reports that the Navy have a fisheries protection fleet that is being bolstered in the event of no deal.
I can see things getting very messy in the waters off our coast. And we know what happens next. Expect blockades by the french at the ports in retaliation. They may not be the best when it comes to world wars, but they are pretty good at shutting things down.
Really? Where can the rest of us see this 'fact'?
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But Eustace keeps saying it'll be fine!!!!!
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Johnson caved in on fish apparently. 5 to 7 year transition period agreed to get new quotas in place.
'Just' level playing field conditions to agree now:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/06/major-breakthrough-on-fishing-rights-brings-brexit-deal-closer?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
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Johnson and his govt are screwed either way. The french won’t accept anything other than near total unfettered acres to our waters as anything less will spell disaster for the whole North French coast fishing industry. Macron has also said he would veto anything less.
Theresa May said no deal is better than a bad deal.
Fact is, we simply have no idea how economically damaging no deal will be.
Any negative impact from no deal will be seen by many as a failure of the current uk govt.
So it’s a poison chalice.
Damned if they do, damned if they don’t.
I’ve read reports that the Navy have a fisheries protection fleet that is being bolstered in the event of no deal.
I can see things getting very messy in the waters off our coast. And we know what happens next. Expect blockades by the french at the ports in retaliation. They may not be the best when it comes to world wars, but they are pretty good at shutting things down.
Really? Where can the rest of us see this 'fact'?
Quite simply because it has not happened yet. We cannot predict the financial future, especially something so complex.
My youngest son works for one of the 4 major global finance companies, and they have no models to work to regarding what effect tariffs and quotas will have on the uk and Eu economies. It’s all just best guess. There are just too many variables at work.
Johnson has said our economy will boom under a no deal, but I have not seen a scrap of evidence to back this up.
The whole negotiating charade has gone on too long imho.
Johnson put down a red line date weeks ago. This has come and gone. I’d love to play him at poker. He is a rubbish bluffer.
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Johnson and his govt are screwed either way. The french won’t accept anything other than near total unfettered acres to our waters as anything less will spell disaster for the whole North French coast fishing industry. Macron has also said he would veto anything less.
Theresa May said no deal is better than a bad deal.
Fact is, we simply have no idea how economically damaging no deal will be.
Any negative impact from no deal will be seen by many as a failure of the current uk govt.
So it’s a poison chalice.
Damned if they do, damned if they don’t.
I’ve read reports that the Navy have a fisheries protection fleet that is being bolstered in the event of no deal.
I can see things getting very messy in the waters off our coast. And we know what happens next. Expect blockades by the french at the ports in retaliation. They may not be the best when it comes to world wars, but they are pretty good at shutting things down.
Really? Where can the rest of us see this 'fact'?
Quite simply because it has not happened yet. We cannot predict the financial future, especially something so complex.
My youngest son works for one of the 4 major global finance companies, and they have no models to work to regarding what effect tariffs and quotas will have on the uk and Eu economies. It’s all just best guess. There are just too many variables at work.
Johnson has said our economy will boom under a no deal, but I have not seen a scrap of evidence to back this up.
The whole negotiating charade has gone on too long imho.
Johnson put down a red line date weeks ago. This has come and gone. I’d love to play him at poker. He is a rubbish bluffer.
A very good response there NR.
It will be interesting to see a comeback to that post.
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NR.
I'm sorry, but you are absolutely wrong on that.
I know the likes of Gove have made careers out of telling us not to trust experts, but the fact is that the topic of transnational trade and the effect of tariffs is one of the most widely researched ones in macroeconomics. We CAN have a pretty good idea of what the effect on our economy will be, precisely because there are so many examples of the benefits that economies gain from striking deals which reduce or eliminate tariffs.
There are no studies which predict anything less bad than a 5-10% hit to our GDP if we leave without a deal. That would be a self-inflicted wound of epic proportions, equal to the entire NHS budget lost every year for the foreseeable future.
There is simply no way that we could possibly make that up through deals with other countries, even if such deals were...err...oven ready. Because we do so much of our trade with the EU. The much-trumpeted deal that we have struck with Japan is predicted to increase our GDP by 0.1% - 1/50th of the minimum we will lose by leaving the EU without a deal.
There are reasons why no major economy in decades has EVER pulled out of a tariff-free deal with a major trading partner. In our collective bout of insanity, we have convinced ourselves that we know better.