Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: BillyStubbsTears on January 12, 2021, 08:29:42 pm
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Going well int it?
10 months into on-line learning, the thick end of a million kids still have no laptops or adequate broadband.
And the party that scoffed that Marcus Rashford was "virtue signalling" over his support for free school meals (yep, one of the fat f**kers on the Tory back benches used precisely those words) is giving a private company £30 quid a week to provide the following food for a kid's meals.
1 Loaf bread,
3 bananas,
2 apples,
2 pears,
3 potatoes,
HALF a tomato,
quarter cucumber,
tin of beans,
tin of soup,
individual butter and cheese servings.
& half a carrot.
The Govt decided not to give the parents food vouchers because this was seen as a more efficient way of managing the process...
But hey! Let's not criticise the Govt, right. Because that is biased.
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I'd be surprised if Aldi would charge a fiver for that shopping list. Half a tomato is really taking the piss.
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Some of the parcels are a disgrace and it needs sorting, if they were given decent food parcels like they should I think it’s a far better idea than vouchers as you would be making sure they had decent food
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I saw on the news that a reporter bought the same unbranded food for around eight quid.
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Food parcel delivered to kids in Finland v food parcel deliverd to kids in England
https://twitter.com/DavidLammy/status/1348962945657675776
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Not even convinced there is a fivers worth of food there
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Owner of the Company outsourced to deliver this is a Tory Party donor, fancy that eh?
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And in Wales:
It started with five micro meals, five fruit plus salad, yoghurt and desserts for each child.
"In December, we had waffles, chips, meat, fruit, vegetables, the usual five meals with salad and fruit per child plus a cracker and a selection box.
"Currently we are receiving 10 day hampers which include frozen veg, fresh veg, fresh salad, fresh potatoes, five frozen meals, frozen chips, chicken nuggets, block of cheese, five frozen desserts, fresh fruit, fish fingers and rice
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/stark-contrast-between-free-school-23306723?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar
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Is it not the schools and local authorities who decide the provider not the government?
The packages are shocking but I don't think its the government that procure them.
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Aldi prices
Loaf white bread 45p
Baked beans 29p
Chicken and veg soup 31p
3 X bananas 39p
2 X apples 20p
2 X pears 24p
FULL vine tomato 19p
FULL cucumber 43p
BAG of carrots 41p
Aldi don't sell individual tomatoes, apples or pears but that is the price based on the cost of individual items taken from a bag. I thought I'd treat them to a full tomato and cucumber and chucked in the entire bag of carrots.
Total: £2.89
Aldi don't do individual portions of cheese and butter so have the full portion.
FULL BLOCK of cheddar £1.79
FULL Tub beautifully buttery 69p
Grand Total: £ 5.37
Edit: sorry maths went awry there.
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Whoever accepted £30 per box payment and then came up with this level of provision should be jailed.
This is fraud against the public purse, and targets the most vulnerable, at the time they need help most, and will result in nutritional deficit for children.
Of all the outrages so far imposed, this is beyond the pale.
No reasonable person could defend this!
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Point of fact correction. The company in question says they only (sic) charged the Govt £10.55 for that box.
Which raises two further points.
1) They are taking more in their own costs than the food is worth. And apparently their USP in their pitch to the Govt was that they could provide a better service than giving food vouchers directly to parents...
2) The figure widely quoted last autumn for the cost of FSM was £20 per week per pupil. So why is the Govt signing a contract to serve up this rubbish for £10?
The economic cost is trivial in the big scheme of things. But the nutritional hit and the sheer shame of being served up that crap is incalculable.
And here is the REALLY stupid thing for the Govt. The PR hit that they take on this far outweighs any possible other political advantage.
Cruel and stupid isn't a very good tag line for a Govt.
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Don't forget these carpetbaggers are buying at wholesale prices.
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Dont forget Johnson has looked into it (no doubt) and has said its ok - lets move on
Well done Marcus Rashford that rarity in my life a Man U player I like (Harry Gregg was the other) - for keeping this in the spotlight. If we ose 1-0 at Old Trafford in the 98th minute I would like him to be the scorer
Levelling up is like Build Build Build - Platitudes both of them but crucially easy for the Ministers etc to remember and get into every answer whether relevant or not
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I'm guessing the sample boxes supplied to Vicky Ford for sign off must have looked somewhat different.
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I'm guessing the sample boxes supplied to Vicky Ford for sign off must have looked somewhat different.
Similar to the centre plate samples we were served at the KM, but never made it on to the concourse
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Maybe people should feed their own kids. If they can't afford to do that then they should keep it in their trousers.
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Circumstances change AL don't tar everyone with the same brush
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Circumstances change AL don't tar everyone with the same brush
Totally agree but in AL's world everything is black and white.
You can be a moment away from life changing circumstances.
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Circumstances change AL don't tar everyone with the same brush
Of course they do. I accept people who fall on hard times need help. I'm referring to the usual suspects who have never done a stroke in their lives. We all know who they are.
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Is it not the schools and local authorities who decide the provider not the government?
The packages are shocking but I don't think its the government that procure them.
They are the same providers who run the school canteens - so yes, they will have won a contract out to tender.
When they provide meals at school this is done to a menu worked up in consulation with the school. However as you can read elsewhere - these 'hampers' they have provided are done to government specifications.
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Circumstances change AL don't tar everyone with the same brush
Of course they do. I accept people who fall on hard times need help. I'm referring to the usual suspects who have never done a stroke in their lives. We all know who they are.
Well with them being kids in school it will be difficult for them to do a days work - or are you not bothered about hungry children?
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Kids shouldn't suffer because they have wasters for parents
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There were 5.7 million people on Universal Credit in October. 2.2 million (39%) were employed
https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1349396616902545411
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Kids shouldn't suffer because they have wasters for parents
We are breeding another generation on the benefits gravy train, when will it end?
We are massively over populated and there must be a solution. IMO Eugenics is the answer.
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Kids shouldn't suffer because they have wasters for parents
We are breeding another generation on the benefits gravy train, when will it end?
We are massively over populated and there must be a solution. IMO Eugenics is the answer.
Eugenics doesn't reduce population so it'd be interesting to find out what you think it's the solution to.
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Kids shouldn't suffer because they have wasters for parents
We are breeding another generation on the benefits gravy train, when will it end?
We are massively over populated and there must be a solution. IMO Eugenics is the answer.
Eugenics doesn't reduce population so it'd be interesting to find out what you think it's the solution to.
it sounds very "final"
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Kids shouldn't suffer because they have wasters for parents
We are breeding another generation on the benefits gravy train, when will it end?
We are massively over populated and there must be a solution. IMO Eugenics is the answer.
Eugenics doesn't reduce population so it'd be interesting to find out what you think it's the solution to.
It's the solution to getting rid of the ranks of the feral underclass of scum that are breeding at an alarming rate. I don't expect much support on here because many won't face up to reality.
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Whether you think this underclass are scum or not, they aren't breeding at an alarming rate.
The only reason the UK population isn't falling is immigration, which remains at high levels.
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Kids shouldn't suffer because they have wasters for parents
We are breeding another generation on the benefits gravy train, when will it end?
We are massively over populated and there must be a solution. IMO Eugenics is the answer.
Eugenics doesn't reduce population so it'd be interesting to find out what you think it's the solution to.
It's the solution to getting rid of the ranks of the feral underclass of scum that are breeding at an alarming rate. I don't expect much support on here because many won't face up to reality.
How does eugenics do that? If you're going to advocate something as a solution to a problem, understanding what it is you're advocating might be useful, no?
The only way eugenics would reduce population would be to breed people who are infertile and who then pass that trait on to their children. Oh, wait a moment...
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Kids shouldn't suffer because they have wasters for parents
We are breeding another generation on the benefits gravy train, when will it end?
We are massively over populated and there must be a solution. IMO Eugenics is the answer.
What a great idea... now, where to start
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Love to spend my working days advocating for fascism on the forums of a 3rd tier football club I don't even support. Do some f**kin work Axholme you freeloading weirdo.
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Cracking interview with Matt Hancockup on GMB with Piers Morgan;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=519liYKKD8g
Now I have reservations about Morgan, but to his credit he gives to "door" Matt good and proper!
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Cracking interview with Matt Hancockup on GMB with Piers Morgan;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=519liYKKD8g
Now I have reservations about Morgan, but to his credit he gives to "door" Matt good and proper!
Slithering like the snake he is
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I normally refrain from posting messages directly from politicians because there is inevitably a bias in what they say. But this one has got me seething. And it seems to be based on established fact.
Keir Starmer raised the free school meal scandal in PMQ yesterday. Johnson said the food parcels that had been sent out were a disgrace. Turns out, the parcels closely matched what the Govt had told the company to provide. So yes, Prime Minister. it is a disgrace. of your Government's doing.
https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1349349541678620673
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Love to spend my working days advocating for fascism on the forums of a 3rd tier football club I don't even support. Do some f**kin work Axholme you freeloading weirdo.
I am doing plenty of work you moron. Who's advocating fascism thicko. I'm advocating science to improve the human race. Don't get upset because it doesn't fit in with your point of view. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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I'm not advocating fascism. It's a total coincidence that every opinion I have is fascist.
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AL
Even if, like in the film Gattaca, we did genetically modify and improve the human race, you're still going have a bunch of smart primates competing for the same natural rescource of the earth.
There would still be winners and losers. We'd raise the bar but nothing would change.
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AL
Even if, like in the film Gattaca, we did genetically modify and improve the human race, you're still going have a bunch of smart primates competing for the same natural rescource of the earth.
There would still be winners and losers. We'd raise the bar but nothing would change.
If there were less people, but of better quality, there would not need to be so much competition for resources. Mother nature would thank us.
The human race can not keep reproducing uncontrolled ad infinitum. There's nothing fascist about stating that fact. Population growth is the number one problem facing the world , even more that covid in my opinion. These are the uncomfortable truths which the powers that be need to face up to, but as far as I can see haven't got the bottle to do so.
To the people who disagree with my points I would ask at what point would you consider the world full up?
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AL
Even if, like in the film Gattaca, we did genetically modify and improve the human race, you're still going have a bunch of smart primates competing for the same natural rescource of the earth.
There would still be winners and losers. We'd raise the bar but nothing would change.
If there were less people, but of better quality, there would not need to be so much competition for resources. Mother nature would thank us.
The human race can not keep reproducing uncontrolled ad infinitum. There's nothing fascist about stating that fact. Population growth is the number one problem facing the world , even more that covid in my opinion. These are the uncomfortable truths which the powers that be need to face up to, but as far as I can see haven't got the bottle to do so.
To the people who disagree with my points I would ask at what point would you consider the world full up?
If there were fewer people of the same quality, there would still not be so much need for competition of resources in exactly the same way.
Either way, you still have winners and losers, you don't genetically modify competition away or natural selection or the physical forces that shape the world.
You will still have a society of winners and losers.
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To answer your second question, just look around.
Pollution, mass extinctions, dwindling fossil fuel reserves, pressure on food supplies, climatic change, increasing conflicts, mass migrations and so on. These are all pointers that the human species is becoming out of balance with its habitat.
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Love to spend my working days advocating for fascism on the forums of a 3rd tier football club I don't even support. Do some f**kin work Axholme you freeloading weirdo.
I am doing plenty of work you moron. Who's advocating fascism thicko. I'm advocating science to improve the human race. Don't get upset because it doesn't fit in with your point of view. :lol: :lol: :lol:
I seem to remember reading that Joseph Mengele called it 'science' too AL.
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RD.
Point of fact. We do not have "increasing conflicts". The past 20 or so years has been pretty much the most peaceful period of the last 700 years, measured in terms of the proportion of the human race killed in armed conflict.
https://www.vox.com/2015/6/23/8832311/war-casualties-600-years
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RD.
Point of fact. We do not have "increasing conflicts". The past 20 or so years has been pretty much the most peaceful period of the last 700 years, measured in terms of the proportion of the human race killed in armed conflict.
https://www.vox.com/2015/6/23/8832311/war-casualties-600-years
I didn't know that, it would be good news side of the ledger then BST, only I think the nature of conflict is changing, it might be more difficult to measure. For instance I read somewhere that more people have been killed in Mexico through the war on drugs, than have been in both the Iraq and Afghanistan wars combined.
Are there any graphs that measure violent deaths?
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Love to spend my working days advocating for fascism on the forums of a 3rd tier football club I don't even support. Do some f**kin work Axholme you freeloading weirdo.
I am doing plenty of work you moron. Who's advocating fascism thicko. I'm advocating science to improve the human race. Don't get upset because it doesn't fit in with your point of view. :lol: :lol: :lol:
You were talking about reducing the population, not improving the human race.
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Love to spend my working days advocating for fascism on the forums of a 3rd tier football club I don't even support. Do some f**kin work Axholme you freeloading weirdo.
I am doing plenty of work you moron. Who's advocating fascism thicko. I'm advocating science to improve the human race. Don't get upset because it doesn't fit in with your point of view. :lol: :lol: :lol:
You were talking about reducing the population, not improving the human race.
It's a strange world you live in when you think the human race would be better served by eugenics than feeding children.
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Wonder who these "better quality" people are that axholme is on about. It's qwhite a mystery.
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All this talk of using eugenics to improve the species, almost as if he wants to create something of a master race. Sound familiar? Definitely not a fascist, though.
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Wonder who these "better quality" people are that axholme is on about. It's qwhite a mystery.
I wondered if people would notice, I didn't want to unter-mention it.
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Wonder who these "better quality" people are that axholme is on about. It's qwhite a mystery.
I wondered if people would notice, I didn't want to unter-mention it.
I can definitely see guile in your response.
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For balance:
The school I teach in has been given enough emergency funding to supply every student who does not have access to computers with chromebooks to assist in on line learning. Vulnerable and critical worker students are still in school every day, being taught by teaching staff full time. They are fed a good meal every day.
It’s not perfect, but what is just now?
I am actually quite proud of the service we are able to give to our young students, and the government should take some credit for that.
Photos of scabby potatoes doesn’t even begin to tell the whole story.
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For balance:
The school I teach in has been given enough emergency funding to supply every student who does not have access to computers with chromebooks to assist in on line learning. Vulnerable and critical worker students are still in school every day, being taught by teaching staff full time. They are fed a good meal every day.
It’s not perfect, but what is just now?
I am actually quite proud of the service we are able to give to our young students, and the government should take some credit for that.
Credit where it's due. Can't ask for much more than that.
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All this talk of using eugenics to improve the species, almost as if he wants to create something of a master race. Sound familiar? Definitely not a fascist, though.
He doesn't need to, J. The master race already exists.
It's in Scawsby. Don't tell BB.
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All this talk of using eugenics to improve the species, almost as if he wants to create something of a master race. Sound familiar? Definitely not a fascist, though.
He doesn't need to, J. The master race already exists.
It's in Scawsby. Don't tell BB.
I said master race, not masturbates!
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All this talk of using eugenics to improve the species, almost as if he wants to create something of a master race. Sound familiar? Definitely not a fascist, though.
He doesn't need to, J. The master race already exists.
It's in Scawsby. Don't tell BB.
I said master race, not masturbates!
I've always been known for having a certain amount of pulling power.
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Good to check out who opposed free meals for poor kids when it was voted on;
https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2020-10-21/division/B3160B57-D3E0-4423-A511-4DE844D74379/FreeSchoolMeals?outputType=Names
I see Nick Fletcher thought this was best for his constituents in Don Valley.
Just so we all know!
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For balance:
The school I teach in has been given enough emergency funding to supply every student who does not have access to computers with chromebooks to assist in on line learning. Vulnerable and critical worker students are still in school every day, being taught by teaching staff full time. They are fed a good meal every day.
It’s not perfect, but what is just now?
I am actually quite proud of the service we are able to give to our young students, and the government should take some credit for that.
Photos of scabby potatoes doesn’t even begin to tell the whole story.
As far as I am aware the school where I am a governor has still not had all the laptops we asked for. We asked for 30 when it was first annouced - at last notification 2 had been delivered.
I have been told that we have been delivering a far more substantial food package than has been reported - and packed lunch for the children in school, no hot food as the canteen is being used as a classroom for social distancing.
So I would give credit to the individual schools and catering companies that are doing the best - or more than their best - for their children - when it is every school and every catering company working under government directions, then I will give the government credit.
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I don't recall anyone criticising the efforts that schools are making.
The issue is provision for kids not in school. And a private company convincing Govt it would be better to let them provided food packages with something like a 300% overhead on the wholesale cost, because it was a better solution than simply giving parents food vouchers. Then serving up the shite we've seen this week.
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I don't recall anyone criticising the efforts that schools are making.
The issue is provision for kids not in school. And a private company convincing Govt it would be better to let them provided food packages with something like a 300% overhead on the wholesale cost, because it was a better solution than simply giving parents food vouchers. Then serving up the shite we've seen this week.
So do you criticise the help that the government is giving schools in terms of chromebooks, in school learning and meals provided for them?
Schools could not do what they are doing without extra support from the government.
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Do children get packages tailored to any medical needs or are they all expected to get the same and lump it if it's not appropriate?
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Do children get packages tailored to any medical needs or are they all expected to get the same and lump it if it's not appropriate?
They should, and hopefully they will. But it will not just happen at the click of your fingers.
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Do children get packages tailored to any medical needs or are they all expected to get the same and lump it if it's not appropriate?
They should, and hopefully they will. But it will not just happen at the click of your fingers.
From what I've seen it looks like 'one size fits all', but I'm not sure which is why I've asked in case anyone knows.
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I don't recall anyone criticising the efforts that schools are making.
The issue is provision for kids not in school. And a private company convincing Govt it would be better to let them provided food packages with something like a 300% overhead on the wholesale cost, because it was a better solution than simply giving parents food vouchers. Then serving up the shite we've seen this week.
So do you criticise the help that the government is giving schools in terms of chromebooks, in school learning and meals provided for them?
Schools could not do what they are doing without extra support from the government.
Isn't that what the government's role is to provide the means to educate all children to the highest possible standard, equal across the board, and if required provide the necessary nutrition to enable them to grow and be able to learn?
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Belton.
Of course schools couldn't do this without the Govt funding. I'm not questioning that. You're setting up a straw man.
I'm criticising PART of the response. You are inferring that I'm criticising it all.
The bits I'm criticising are.
1) why has it taken 10 months to get on top of the hardware issue when Govt knew it was a problem last March?
2) Why has govt outsourced provision of FSM to kids not at school to a company which is providing such a risible product with a 2-300% overhead?
Do you accept that?
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I accept it Billy
You’re only criticising the things you think are worthy of criticism.
But you also posted a menu of food that is absolutely not a true reflection of what most of our needy children are receiving.
Scandalous.
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You’re only criticising the things you think are worthy of criticisism.
Doesn't everybody?
Things that you think are worthy of criticism deserve to be criticised. Criticising things that you think aren't wirthy is just bizarre.
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You’re only criticising the things you think are worthy of criticisism.
Doesn't everybody?
Things that you think are worthy of criticism deserve to be criticised. Criticising things that you think aren't wirthy is just bizarre.
Not even worthy of a response.
Yet I’ve responded. More fool me.
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Belton.
1) Well yes. That's kind of how criticism works. The things you are pointing out are really very straightforward issues that Govt exists to manage correctly. We expect that of a basically competent Govt and it goes without comment. Just as you wouldn't expect someone to post once a month praising the Govt for making sure soldiers were paid on time.
2) I posted a menu that is taken directly from the Govt guidance to the suppliers of FSM to kids not in school, and a list of things that a supplier has supplied. I genuinely do not understand your point.
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Belton.
1) Well yes. That's kind of how criticism works. The things you are pointing out are really very straightforward issues that Govt exists to manage correctly. We expect that of a basically competent Govt and it goes without comment. Just as you wouldn't expect someone to post once a month praising the Govt for making sure soldiers were paid on time.
2) I posted a menu that is taken directly from the Govt guidance to the suppliers of FSM to kids not in school, and a list of things that a supplier has supplied. I genuinely do not understand your point.
Not even worthy of a response, apparently.
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So why post it, Billy?
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Belton.
1) Well yes. That's kind of how criticism works. The things you are pointing out are really very straightforward issues that Govt exists to manage correctly. We expect that of a basically competent Govt and it goes without comment. Just as you wouldn't expect someone to post once a month praising the Govt for making sure soldiers were paid on time.
2) I posted a menu that is taken directly from the Govt guidance to the suppliers of FSM to kids not in school, and a list of things that a supplier has supplied. I genuinely do not understand your point.
Not even worthy of a response, apparently.
Why would you think some one else’s post isn’t worthy of a response just because your post isn’t?
What? Wait? Unless you’re all in this together! Now there’s a thought.
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Anyway. Good to see you're well again.
I wonder if you've been reflecting on the Trump transition while you've been ill.
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Anyway. Good to see you're well again.
I wonder if you've been reflecting on the Trump transition while you've been ill.
Reflecting?
No time for reflecting - I’ve been digging a bunker ready for the annihilation. I’m almost down to China. Do you think I’ll be safe there?
But thanks. Incredibly, I tested negative, but the rest of my family were positive.
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Belton.
1) Well yes. That's kind of how criticism works. The things you are pointing out are really very straightforward issues that Govt exists to manage correctly. We expect that of a basically competent Govt and it goes without comment. Just as you wouldn't expect someone to post once a month praising the Govt for making sure soldiers were paid on time.
2) I posted a menu that is taken directly from the Govt guidance to the suppliers of FSM to kids not in school, and a list of things that a supplier has supplied. I genuinely do not understand your point.
Not even worthy of a response, apparently.
Why would you think some one else’s post isn’t worthy of a response just because your post isn’t?
What? Wait? Unless you’re all in this together! Now there’s a thought.
Well, as BST's said pretty much the same thing as mine I thought it was a safe assumption that you'd want to treat it the same.
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Belton.
1) Well yes. That's kind of how criticism works. The things you are pointing out are really very straightforward issues that Govt exists to manage correctly. We expect that of a basically competent Govt and it goes without comment. Just as you wouldn't expect someone to post once a month praising the Govt for making sure soldiers were paid on time.
2) I posted a menu that is taken directly from the Govt guidance to the suppliers of FSM to kids not in school, and a list of things that a supplier has supplied. I genuinely do not understand your point.
Not even worthy of a response, apparently.
Why would you think some one else’s post isn’t worthy of a response just because your post isn’t?
What? Wait? Unless you’re all in this together! Now there’s a thought.
Well, as BST's said pretty much the same thing as mine I thought it was a safe assumption that you'd want to treat it the same.
Quite right Glyn-I disregard everything in bold type.
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Next time I'll delete everything else and just leave the bit I would have made bold. Maybe that'll work.
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Anyway. Good to see you're well again.
I wonder if you've been reflecting on the Trump transition while you've been ill.
Reflecting?
No time for reflecting - I’ve been digging a bunker ready for the annihilation. I’m almost down to China. Do you think I’ll be safe there?
But thanks. Incredibly, I tested negative, but the rest of my family were positive.
So presumably you got a false negstive test result? That'll upset some folk in here.
Anyway. Grand to see it hasn't had any lasting effects. You're still just as good at misrepresenting as you ever were.
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I was absolutely convinced I would test positive, as I had symptoms and the other five members of my household were positive at the time.
I have no idea whether I was wrong or the test. I don’t know why you would presume it was a false negative.
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I was absolutely convinced I would test positive, as I had symptoms and the other five members of my household were positive at the time.
I have no idea whether I was wrong or the test. I don’t know why you would presume it was a false negative.
That is a bit strange, but good news that you made a full recovery. Hope Mrs Belton and the rest of the family are all well too.
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I accept it Billy
You’re only criticising the things you think are worthy of criticism.
But you also posted a menu of food that is absolutely not a true reflection of what most of our needy children are receiving.
Scandalous.
Do you have any evidence for this Belton?
The only contradictory evidence that I have seen of schools, sending out more than what the government has recommended is from me and you here and a few callers on the radio who say they are local resteraunts providing school meals in their area free of charge. This would appear to be individual schools going against government guidance rather than praise for companies following it.
Marcus Rashford said he had been contacted by thousands of parents, there have been dozens of callers on the radio from all over the country and photos and reports in many local papers, including in Wiltshire, of schools sending out parcels similar to that Billy posted.
I would like to think most are not - but I haven't seen any evidence of that?
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I was absolutely convinced I would test positive, as I had symptoms and the other five members of my household were positive at the time.
I have no idea whether I was wrong or the test. I don’t know why you would presume it was a false negative.
Good to hear you came through it ok, best wishes for all your family.
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I was absolutely convinced I would test positive, as I had symptoms and the other five members of my household were positive at the time.
I have no idea whether I was wrong or the test. I don’t know why you would presume it was a false negative.
False negatives do happen. And it would be very strange indeed for you to be in close contact with several people with the virus, have the same symptoms as them and not actually have the virus. A false negstive test seems like the most plausible explanation.
Anyway, genuinely good news that you're all OK. I was speaking last week to someone I know in South Africa. He said he lost three friends to COVID over the Xmas holiday, all in their 40s. It must be a right bas**rd and personally, I'm hoping I get the vaccine before getting the virus.
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I was absolutely convinced I would test positive, as I had symptoms and the other five members of my household were positive at the time.
I have no idea whether I was wrong or the test. I don’t know why you would presume it was a false negative.
That is a bit strange, but good news that you made a full recovery. Hope Mrs Belton and the rest of the family are all well too.
Thanks, Wilts
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I was absolutely convinced I would test positive, as I had symptoms and the other five members of my household were positive at the time.
I have no idea whether I was wrong or the test. I don’t know why you would presume it was a false negative.
Good to hear you came through it ok, best wishes for all your family.
Thanks, Sydney
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I accept it Billy
You’re only criticising the things you think are worthy of criticism.
But you also posted a menu of food that is absolutely not a true reflection of what most of our needy children are receiving.
Scandalous.
Do you have any evidence for this Belton?
The only contradictory evidence that I have seen of schools, sending out more than what the government has recommended is from me and you here and a few callers on the radio who say they are local resteraunts providing school meals in their area free of charge. This would appear to be individual schools going against government guidance rather than praise for companies following it.
Marcus Rashford said he had been contacted by thousands of parents, there have been dozens of callers on the radio from all over the country and photos and reports in many local papers, including in Wiltshire, of schools sending out parcels similar to that Billy posted.
I would like to think most are not - but I haven't seen any evidence of that?
No evidence in terms of thousands of people contacting Marcus Rashford to say they are happy with free school meals, or dozens of people on the radio expressing their thanks for the meals.
I listened to a radio show where callers were urged to call in about the disgraceful free meals. Several did. I called in to give an alternative opinion from my own experience of local kids and parents being happy with their parcels. I never got past the producer.
I can only assume my views didn’t fit in with the radio station’s narrative.
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I accept it Billy
You’re only criticising the things you think are worthy of criticism.
But you also posted a menu of food that is absolutely not a true reflection of what most of our needy children are receiving.
Scandalous.
Do you have any evidence for this Belton?
The only contradictory evidence that I have seen of schools, sending out more than what the government has recommended is from me and you here and a few callers on the radio who say they are local resteraunts providing school meals in their area free of charge. This would appear to be individual schools going against government guidance rather than praise for companies following it.
Marcus Rashford said he had been contacted by thousands of parents, there have been dozens of callers on the radio from all over the country and photos and reports in many local papers, including in Wiltshire, of schools sending out parcels similar to that Billy posted.
I would like to think most are not - but I haven't seen any evidence of that?
No evidence in terms of thousands of people contacting Marcus Rashford to say they are happy with free school meals, or dozens of people on the radio expressing their thanks for the meals.
I listened to a radio show where callers were urged to call in about the disgraceful free meals. Several did. I called in to give an alternative opinion from my own experience of local kids and parents being happy with their parcels. I never got past the producer.
I can only assume my views didn’t fit in with the radio station’s narrative.
Do you mean like a sort of the truth - the half-truth, and nothing but the half-truth type of propaganda programme that's palmed off as the whole truth?
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I accept it Billy
You’re only criticising the things you think are worthy of criticism.
But you also posted a menu of food that is absolutely not a true reflection of what most of our needy children are receiving.
Scandalous.
Do you have any evidence for this Belton?
The only contradictory evidence that I have seen of schools, sending out more than what the government has recommended is from me and you here and a few callers on the radio who say they are local resteraunts providing school meals in their area free of charge. This would appear to be individual schools going against government guidance rather than praise for companies following it.
Marcus Rashford said he had been contacted by thousands of parents, there have been dozens of callers on the radio from all over the country and photos and reports in many local papers, including in Wiltshire, of schools sending out parcels similar to that Billy posted.
I would like to think most are not - but I haven't seen any evidence of that?
No evidence in terms of thousands of people contacting Marcus Rashford to say they are happy with free school meals, or dozens of people on the radio expressing their thanks for the meals.
I listened to a radio show where callers were urged to call in about the disgraceful free meals. Several did. I called in to give an alternative opinion from my own experience of local kids and parents being happy with their parcels. I never got past the producer.
I can only assume my views didn’t fit in with the radio station’s narrative.
That will be a news programme that has filtered information only going out.
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I accept it Billy
You’re only criticising the things you think are worthy of criticism.
But you also posted a menu of food that is absolutely not a true reflection of what most of our needy children are receiving.
Scandalous.
Do you have any evidence for this Belton?
The only contradictory evidence that I have seen of schools, sending out more than what the government has recommended is from me and you here and a few callers on the radio who say they are local resteraunts providing school meals in their area free of charge. This would appear to be individual schools going against government guidance rather than praise for companies following it.
Marcus Rashford said he had been contacted by thousands of parents, there have been dozens of callers on the radio from all over the country and photos and reports in many local papers, including in Wiltshire, of schools sending out parcels similar to that Billy posted.
I would like to think most are not - but I haven't seen any evidence of that?
No evidence in terms of thousands of people contacting Marcus Rashford to say they are happy with free school meals, or dozens of people on the radio expressing their thanks for the meals.
I listened to a radio show where callers were urged to call in about the disgraceful free meals. Several did. I called in to give an alternative opinion from my own experience of local kids and parents being happy with their parcels. I never got past the producer.
I can only assume my views didn’t fit in with the radio station’s narrative.
So you don't have any evidence that the menu that posted is not what most of our needy children are recieving then?
Despite it being the offical government guidance of what our needy children should recieve?
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Last week I took food from one Academy School around here to a School 10 miles away in the same academy, I can confirm the food I took, in bulk, was broadly in line with the pictures posted during last week
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I accept it Billy
You’re only criticising the things you think are worthy of criticism.
But you also posted a menu of food that is absolutely not a true reflection of what most of our needy children are receiving.
Scandalous.
Do you have any evidence for this Belton?
The only contradictory evidence that I have seen of schools, sending out more than what the government has recommended is from me and you here and a few callers on the radio who say they are local resteraunts providing school meals in their area free of charge. This would appear to be individual schools going against government guidance rather than praise for companies following it.
Marcus Rashford said he had been contacted by thousands of parents, there have been dozens of callers on the radio from all over the country and photos and reports in many local papers, including in Wiltshire, of schools sending out parcels similar to that Billy posted.
I would like to think most are not - but I haven't seen any evidence of that?
No evidence in terms of thousands of people contacting Marcus Rashford to say they are happy with free school meals, or dozens of people on the radio expressing their thanks for the meals.
I listened to a radio show where callers were urged to call in about the disgraceful free meals. Several did. I called in to give an alternative opinion from my own experience of local kids and parents being happy with their parcels. I never got past the producer.
I can only assume my views didn’t fit in with the radio station’s narrative.
So you don't have any evidence that the menu that posted is not what most of our needy children are recieving then?
Despite it being the offical government guidance of what our needy children should recieve?
Look, Wilts, as I have already stated, my experience of free school meals is that they are much better quality than the photos shown on rolling TV news and described in the ‘dozens’ (wow) of callers you have listened to. Do you want me to post the names and addresses of the kids I am talking about as proof of evidence?
I totally accept and I am appalled that many children are receiving sub standard meals, but that does not mean that is the norm.
We are a nation of whingers and whiners. If there weren’t any unacceptable food parcels to moan about, the moaners wouldn’t suddenly wax lyrical about how good the parcels are, they’d just find something else to moan about in a ‘we’ll just brush the good stuff under the carpet’ kind of way.
For what it’s worth, I think vouchers are the best way forward, but that will come with problems of its own.
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Last week I took food from one Academy School around here to a School 10 miles away in the same academy, I can confirm the food I took, in bulk, was broadly in line with the pictures posted during last week
How broadly?
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Last week I took food from one Academy School around here to a School 10 miles away in the same academy, I can confirm the food I took, in bulk, was broadly in line with the pictures posted during last week
How broadly?
Very close, bread, bananas, biscuits, condensed milk potatoes, Carrotts
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Belton, some posters will ask you for evidence of what you have seen but they won’t ask Filo to provide evidence of what he saw.
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Belton, some posters will ask you for evidence of what you have seen but they won’t ask Filo to provide evidence of what he saw.
Can you support your claim hound?
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Belton, some posters will ask you for evidence of what you have seen but they won’t ask Filo to provide evidence of what he saw.
You either trust my word or you don’t, I don’t do lies, and that is what you are implying, frankly I don’t care if you believe me or not
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Belton, some posters will ask you for evidence of what you have seen but they won’t ask Filo to provide evidence of what he saw.
Belton has evidence from his personal experince. I have evidence from my personal experince, Filo has from his personal experience.
Non of us yet has found evidence to say what most of the children on free school meals in the country are recieving - other than what parents and school staff have posted on social media.
Most pertinantly, no-one has provided any evidence to say that the vast majority of these children, in England, are not receiving school packages in line with offical government recommendations that Johnson himself described as unacceptable.
I would be delighted to see it, but as yet all we have is the odd school ignoring the government and going beyond these.
Personally I think the government should link up with local cafes/restaraunts/pubs/taxi firms and get them to provide the FSM - this would provide an income for those businesses and a meal for the children.
Failing that the vouchers do seem to be the way to go as then the money allocated to the child for food will be reaching the family, rather than being scammed off by the corporate service company.
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Belton, some posters will ask you for evidence of what you have seen but they won’t ask Filo to provide evidence of what he saw.
Belton has evidence from his personal experince. I have evidence from my personal experince, Filo has from his personal experience.
Non of us yet has found evidence to say what most of the children on free school meals in the country are recieving - other than what parents and school staff have posted on social media.
Most pertinantly, no-one has provided any evidence to say that the vast majority of these children, in England, are not receiving school packages in line with offical government recommendations that Johnson himself described as unacceptable.
I would be delighted to see it, but as yet all we have is the odd school ignoring the government and going beyond these.
Personally I think the government should link up with local cafes/restaraunts/pubs/taxi firms and get them to provide the FSM - this would provide an income for those businesses and a meal for the children.
Failing that the vouchers do seem to be the way to go as then the money allocated to the child for food will be reaching the family, rather than being scammed off by the corporate service company.
We as a taxi firm do the delivery from one school to another from the same academy
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Wilts.
Point of fact. Johnson didn't describe them as "unacceptable". He described them as "disgraceful".
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:police:
Belton, some posters will ask you for evidence of what you have seen but they won’t ask Filo to provide evidence of what he saw.
You either trust my word or you don’t, I don’t do lies, and that is what you are implying, frankly I don’t care if you believe me or not
Filo, read my post again in the context of where it was written in the thread.
I personally don’t doubt you and certainly wasn’t implying that you were lying.
I wrote it because wilts had questioned Beltons observation.
I brought your observation into it because as one of our Labour supporting posters you are very unlikely to be put under the microscope.
Belton on the other hand is not likely to be able to post without being chased down.
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(https://i.imgur.com/ETxG1PR.jpg)
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Hound.
Could you point out for us where Wilts questioned Belton's observation? I'm struggling to find it.
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I accept it Billy
You’re only criticising the things you think are worthy of criticism.
But you also posted a menu of food that is absolutely not a true reflection of what most of our needy children are receiving.
Scandalous.
Do you have any evidence for this Belton?
The only contradictory evidence that I have seen of schools, sending out more than what the government has recommended is from me and you here and a few callers on the radio who say they are local resteraunts providing school meals in their area free of charge. This would appear to be individual schools going against government guidance rather than praise for companies following it.
Marcus Rashford said he had been contacted by thousands of parents, there have been dozens of callers on the radio from all over the country and photos and reports in many local papers, including in Wiltshire, of schools sending out parcels similar to that Billy posted.
I would like to think most are not - but I haven't seen any evidence of that?
BST. This one.
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I accept it Billy
You’re only criticising the things you think are worthy of criticism.
But you also posted a menu of food that is absolutely not a true reflection of what most of our needy children are receiving.
Scandalous.
Do you have any evidence for this Belton?
The only contradictory evidence that I have seen of schools, sending out more than what the government has recommended is from me and you here and a few callers on the radio who say they are local resteraunts providing school meals in their area free of charge. This would appear to be individual schools going against government guidance rather than praise for companies following it.
Marcus Rashford said he had been contacted by thousands of parents, there have been dozens of callers on the radio from all over the country and photos and reports in many local papers, including in Wiltshire, of schools sending out parcels similar to that Billy posted.
I would like to think most are not - but I haven't seen any evidence of that?
No evidence in terms of thousands of people contacting Marcus Rashford to say they are happy with free school meals, or dozens of people on the radio expressing their thanks for the meals.
I listened to a radio show where callers were urged to call in about the disgraceful free meals. Several did. I called in to give an alternative opinion from my own experience of local kids and parents being happy with their parcels. I never got past the producer.
I can only assume my views didn’t fit in with the radio station’s narrative.
So you don't have any evidence that the menu that posted is not what most of our needy children are recieving then?
Despite it being the offical government guidance of what our needy children should recieve?
BST, and this one.
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Hound.
I'm not sure what point you are making here.
Belton commented on what he knew. No one has queried that observation.
He then stated that most children were getting a much better free school meal than the ones under discussion. That wasn't an observation. It was an unsupported assertion. Wilts, simply asked for the supporting evidence for that assertion.
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It’s a very clear point, Billy.
Wilts asked me if I had evidence to support my personal experiences, and than pushed for further clarification that I had no evidence.
Filo also described his personal experiences (different to mine) but no evidence appeared to be needed for his experience to be accepted.
To be fair to Wilts, he doesn’t appear to have completely dismissed my views because of lack of evidence, but Hound’s very clear and valid point remains.
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Belton, thanks for the support there but as usual the same suspects pile in to cause a scene that is totally unnecessary.
I agree with what you say about wilts and he is generally a fair and reasoned poster.
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I’ll be doing the same run tomorrow, I won’t be revealing the identity of the schools, but hopefully I can get some pics of the bulk order for the week
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Belton. Where did Wilts ask you for evidence of your personal experiences?
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I’m going to move on now Billy.
Thanks for your input in this part of the debate.
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Never changes does it? You misrepresent what people say and when you are picked up on it, you can't find it in yourself to accept the mistake with good grace.
Then you periodically give us a lecture on the approach to discussion in here being toxic.
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It’s a very clear point, Billy.
Wilts asked me if I had evidence to support my personal experiences, and than pushed for further clarification that I had no evidence.
Filo also described his personal experiences (different to mine) but no evidence appeared to be needed for his experience to be accepted.
To be fair to Wilts, he doesn’t appear to have completely dismissed my views because of lack of evidence, but Hound’s very clear and valid point remains.
No he didn't.
I accept it Billy
You’re only criticising the things you think are worthy of criticism.
But you also posted a menu of food that is absolutely not a true reflection of what most of our needy children are receiving.
Scandalous.
Do you have any evidence for this Belton?
The only contradictory evidence that I have seen of schools, sending out more than what the government has recommended is from me and you here and a few callers on the radio who say they are local resteraunts providing school meals in their area free of charge. This would appear to be individual schools going against government guidance rather than praise for companies following it.
Marcus Rashford said he had been contacted by thousands of parents, there have been dozens of callers on the radio from all over the country and photos and reports in many local papers, including in Wiltshire, of schools sending out parcels similar to that Billy posted.
I would like to think most are not - but I haven't seen any evidence of that?
You said that what had been posted was 'absolutely not a true reflection of what most of our needy children are receiving'.
I have never questioned your personal experince, I have thanked you for your personal experince. What I have asked for is the evidence to know that this is what most of the needy children across the country are receiving. Becuase their parents were saying it was what they were receiving.
I presumed you had evidence of what was happening nationally that we were unaware of.
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Belton, It's OK for you to have personal evidence of school meals being of higher quality than the ones shown in the photos but unless you have evidence that most of our UK children are receiving similar higher quality meals your view doesn't amount to much.
The way this forum works, the government is guilty until proved innocent!
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Billy. What never changes is your incessant goading, and your narcissistic need to play your control game on here.
You will keep going until your last breath to ensure you come out on top of any debate on here. I promised myself I would not lower myself to this pathetic level again, hence my ‘I’ll leave it there’ post. An absolutely genuine post to nip this in the bud Before it becomes toxic.
But that has actually riled you even more, hasn’t it?
How dare I not give you the opportunity to ridicule and condescend, and show your superior intellect, wisdom and humour.
I’m a t**t of bad faith when I argue with you, and I’m a t**t of bad faith when I refuse to.
You, and you alone have turned what was actually a rare respectful discussion into yet another personal attack.
Your true colours shown right there.
But I will not be pushed into it anymore by you. I meant what I said a few weeks ago about feeling remorse for my part in any ill feeling, and I don’t intend to be a part of that anymore.
You do whatever you feel is right. You have my pity.
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Wilts.
Point of fact. Johnson didn't describe them as "unacceptable". He described them as "disgraceful".
This must be the biggest indication that the food provided wasn't anywhere near good enough across the board, if johnson is admitting it then it must be bad as maybe this is the first time in his career he has owned up to anything.
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Belton.
I asked you a perfectly respectful question. As I have done countless times over this past 6 months when you have clearly misrepresented something. Your response every single time has been to point blank refuse to address the fact that you had misrepresented the original post, and you then complain of bullying when people point it out. Over and over and over again.
All you needed to do in this thread was hold your hand up and say, "Yep. I misread. Wilts didn't say what I accused him of saying." Dead easy. But you don't. Ever. And that's why I get pissed off with your approach. You say you chose to move on to "nip this in the bud." And if that was your intention, I apologise for misreading it. However, it doesn't address the underlying problem. That you continue to, accidentally or deliberately, misrepresent other people's posts.
That's your right of course. But don't then complain about it being pointed out to you, as though that is unacceptable bullying.
If everyone demands the right to regularly, clearly and unambiguously misrepresent what people say, and refuses ever to correct that, the whole concept of respectful, sensible discussion is out the window.
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It’s a very clear point, Billy.
Wilts asked me if I had evidence to support my personal experiences, and than pushed for further clarification that I had no evidence.
Filo also described his personal experiences (different to mine) but no evidence appeared to be needed for his experience to be accepted.
To be fair to Wilts, he doesn’t appear to have completely dismissed my views because of lack of evidence, but Hound’s very clear and valid point remains.
No he didn't.
I accept it Billy
You’re only criticising the things you think are worthy of criticism.
But you also posted a menu of food that is absolutely not a true reflection of what most of our needy children are receiving.
Scandalous.
Do you have any evidence for this Belton?
The only contradictory evidence that I have seen of schools, sending out more than what the government has recommended is from me and you here and a few callers on the radio who say they are local resteraunts providing school meals in their area free of charge. This would appear to be individual schools going against government guidance rather than praise for companies following it.
Marcus Rashford said he had been contacted by thousands of parents, there have been dozens of callers on the radio from all over the country and photos and reports in many local papers, including in Wiltshire, of schools sending out parcels similar to that Billy posted.
I would like to think most are not - but I haven't seen any evidence of that?
You said that what had been posted was 'absolutely not a true reflection of what most of our needy children are receiving'.
I have never questioned your personal experince, I have thanked you for your personal experince. What I have asked for is the evidence to know that this is what most of the needy children across the country are receiving. Becuase their parents were saying it was what they were receiving.
I presumed you had evidence of what was happening nationally that we were unaware of.
You are right Wilts. Perhaps I could have worded it differently. It is my belief that it it is not a true reflection. It is also a fact that not every child has received the same substandard food.
Unfortunately, we seemed to get a little sidetracked. The problem I have with lists and photos such as we’ve had, is the assumption, that this IS across the board so that it can be used as another reason to vilify the government when, as you quite rightly say, the evidence is not there.
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Belton.
I asked you a perfectly respectful question. As I have done countless times over this past 6 months when you have clearly misrepresented something. Your response every single time has been to point blank refuse to address the fact that you had misrepresented the original post, and you then complain of bullying when people point it out. Over and over and over again.
All you needed to do in this thread was hold your hand up and say, "Yep. I misread. Wilts didn't say what I accused him of saying." Dead easy. But you don't. Ever. And that's why I get pissed off with your approach. You say you chose to move on to "nip this in the bud." And if that was your intention, I apologise for misreading it. However, it doesn't address the underlying problem. That you continue to, accidentally or deliberately, misrepresent other people's posts.
That's your right of course. But don't then complain about it being pointed out to you, as though that is unacceptable bullying.
If everyone demands the right to regularly, clearly and unambiguously misrepresent what people say, and refuses ever to correct that, the whole concept of respectful, sensible discussion is out the window.
That was perhaps a conversation for Wilts and I to have. As I said, it was actually quite an interesting debate. I’ve tried to address that now with wilts.
But then you had to flex your metaphoricalls again, and turn the discussion directly towards you. I have no interest in that. As soon as I realised what you were up to, I pulled pack.
Much to your annoyance.
I really would like to leave it now, if you don’t mind.
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Thanks Belton, I too thought we were having a good and interesting debate and its easy to see where I got confused. I should have made myself clearer, earlier, I think.
And yes I agree with you about some of the other contributions to it. I have no idea why other people decided to use my name and tell me what I think, I'm quite good at doing that myself thanks.
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Belton
If that was a conversation for you and Wilts, maybe you should have stuck to talking to Wilts instead of bringing me into it?
For the record, YOU chose to post to ME, not the other way round. I wasn't talking with you. You initiated the conversation. And in doing so, you said something that was clearly and unquestionably incorrect and not helpful to the discussion. You said Wilts had asked you "if I had evidence to support my personal experiences, and than pushed for further clarification that I had no evidence." He clearly didn't do either of those things. If you post to me and say something that is quite obviously untrue, do you think it's my problem if I pick you up on it?
I asked you to clarify what you had said in your post to me and you chose not to take the opportunity to correct it. Something that has happened depressingly frequently over recent months.
It's a bit rich then to accuse me of spoiling the discussion. If you want to move on, that's grand. Maybe you should have considered that before you dragged me into the discussion?
Wilts. If your post was aimed at me, I've no idea what point you were making. I didn't and wouldn't tell you what you were thinking. I commented in response to Belton's post to me, on what you clearly wrote, with no comment on what I thought you thought.
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Belton
If that was a conversation for you and Wilts, maybe you should have stuck to talking to Wilts instead of bringing me into it?
For the record, YOU chose to post to ME, not the other way round. I wasn't talking with you. You initiated the conversation. And in doing so, you said something that was clearly and unquestionably incorrect and not helpful to the discussion. You said Wilts had asked you "if I had evidence to support my personal experiences, and than pushed for further clarification that I had no evidence." He clearly didn't do either of those things. If you post to me and say something that is quite obviously untrue, do you think it's my problem if I pick you up on it?
I asked you to clarify what you had said in your post to me and you chose not to take the opportunity to correct it. Something that has happened depressingly frequently over recent months.
It's a bit rich then to accuse me of spoiling the discussion. If you want to move on, that's grand. Maybe you should have considered that before you dragged me into the discussion?
Wilts. If your post was aimed at me, I've no idea what point you were making. I didn't and wouldn't tell you what you were thinking. I commented in response to Belton's post to me, on what you clearly wrote, with no comment on what I thought you thought.
I’ll try a different approach, as my first attempt to avoid unnecessary antagonism failed:
I agree, Billy, with everything you’ve said on the matter.
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Belton.
Very simple from me. I would be delighted not to go through this again and to move on to have sensible discussions based on facts and fair representation of what people say, rather than imputing motives (as you did in your "moving on" post when you say you decided not to answer me because you "realised what I was up to", whatever that meant).
If that's where we end up then grand. Bring it on.
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Belton.
Very simple from me. I would be delighted not to go through this again and to move on to have sensible discussions based on facts and fair representation of what people say, rather than imputing motives (as you did in your "moving on" post when you say you decided not to answer me because you "realised what I was up to", whatever that meant).
If that's where we end up then grand. Bring it on.
Oh, I agree.
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Another cracker yesterday.
Investment in new rail lines trumpeted (by the BBC) as "Govt invests £800m to re-open lines closed by Beeching".
Govt press release said it is part of their strategy to improve the lot of "left behind communities".
Great! Loads of new rail for the post-industrial North!
Err. No.
The £800m is £40m for a new link from Newcastle to Ashington, and £760m for a new line from left-behind Oxford to left-behind Cambridge.
Meanwhile, the electrification of the East Midlands Mainline which was "delayed" half a decade ago due to Austerity has dropped entirely off the agenda.
I'm struggling to think of a single city of 500,000+ in the whole of Western Europe that doesn't have an electrified rail line, other than Sheffield.
EDIT:
It's ok folks. Network Rail "wants" to electrify the line.
By 2050...
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.business-live.co.uk/regional-development/network-rail-wants-finally-electrify-18916958.amp
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I think Leeds is the largest city in Europe that doesn't have a metropolitan transit system.
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Bill, I thought the 40m for the North East was to upgrade an existing freight only line
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Transport for the North's budget cut by 40% and £100m for 'oystercard' style combined ticketless system canelled.
https://twitter.com/thomasforth/status/1349476325480914944
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Bill, I thought the 40m for the North East was to upgrade an existing freight only line
Thats right RR its local to me and traversed it in 2019 on a railtour
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Transport for the North's budget cut by 40% and £100m for 'oystercard' style combined ticketless system canelled.
https://twitter.com/thomasforth/status/1349476325480914944
Northern Workhouse. :silly:
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Another cracker yesterday.
Investment in new rail lines trumpeted (by the BBC) as "Govt invests £800m to re-open lines closed by Beeching".
Govt press release said it is part of their strategy to improve the lot of "left behind communities".
Great! Loads of new rail for the post-industrial North!
Err. No.
The £800m is £40m for a new link from Newcastle to Ashington, and £760m for a new line from left-behind Oxford to left-behind Cambridge.
Meanwhile, the electrification of the East Midlands Mainline which was "delayed" half a decade ago due to Austerity has dropped entirely off the agenda.
I'm struggling to think of a single city of 500,000+ in the whole of Western Europe that doesn't have an electrified rail line, other than Sheffield.
EDIT:
It's ok folks. Network Rail "wants" to electrify the line.
By 2050...
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.business-live.co.uk/regional-development/network-rail-wants-finally-electrify-18916958.amp
The maddest thing is, BST, the main line from the old Sheffield Victoria station, (that I used to love), to Manchester, was electrified in the 60s and 70s, and for some reason was abandoned, and Victoria demolished.
I could never understand that.
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SS.
I think what precipitated the Victoria line closure was a fire in the Woodhead Pass that made it structurally unsafe.
But yep, the way that line was just turned off is indicative of how the North has been treated for decades. Having a rail link between South Yorkshire and Manchester that takes over an hour, uses old, small, crowded trains on a line that has very low capacity leading to regular delays. If you were going to design a transport system intended to hamper South Yorkshire's economic potential, this is what you'd come up with.
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It looks like the tunnel was closed to passenger trains due to maintenance costs and frieght continued.
The crew of the train pulling petrol wagons escaped the massive fire without injury, I'd like to know how they were persuaded to go back in to the tunnel and decouple the engine and the 3 tankers still on the rails and drive them out.
''Although the Hope Valley line was recommended for closure in the Beeching Report, instead, the government decided to cease passenger services on the Woodhead line, allegedly due to the high cost of upgrading and modernising the route. In 1970, the last passenger services ran through the tunnel but the line continued to host freight trains. The last train passed through the tunnels in 1981 when the line was closed''
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodhead_Tunnel
Old video of tunnel fire
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kffhEHIEi70
Description of fire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summit_Tunnel_fire
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It looks like the tunnel was closed to passenger trains due to maintenance costs and frieght continued.
The crew of the train pulling petrol wagons escaped the massive fire without injury, I'd like to know how they were persuaded to go back in to the tunnel and decouple the engine and the 3 tankers still on the rails and drive them out.
''Although the Hope Valley line was recommended for closure in the Beeching Report, instead, the government decided to cease passenger services on the Woodhead line, allegedly due to the high cost of upgrading and modernising the route. In 1970, the last passenger services ran through the tunnel but the line continued to host freight trains. The last train passed through the tunnels in 1981 when the line was closed''
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodhead_Tunnel
Old video of tunnel fire
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kffhEHIEi70
Description of fire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summit_Tunnel_fire
I dont think summit tunnel was/is on the woodshed route Syd
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The Woodhead Tunnel can’t be reopened anyway, National Gride use it to run power lines through now
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Transport for the North's budget cut by 40% and £100m for 'oystercard' style combined ticketless system canelled.
https://twitter.com/thomasforth/status/1349476325480914944
Northern Workhouse. :silly:
Northern Poorhouse.
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It looks like the tunnel was closed to passenger trains due to maintenance costs and frieght continued.
The crew of the train pulling petrol wagons escaped the massive fire without injury, I'd like to know how they were persuaded to go back in to the tunnel and decouple the engine and the 3 tankers still on the rails and drive them out.
''Although the Hope Valley line was recommended for closure in the Beeching Report, instead, the government decided to cease passenger services on the Woodhead line, allegedly due to the high cost of upgrading and modernising the route. In 1970, the last passenger services ran through the tunnel but the line continued to host freight trains. The last train passed through the tunnels in 1981 when the line was closed''
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodhead_Tunnel
Old video of tunnel fire
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kffhEHIEi70
Description of fire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summit_Tunnel_fire
I dont think summit tunnel was/is on the woodshed route Syd
I'm must be getting tunnel vision, there are three tunnels called Woodhead 1,2 and 3 so thanks for the correction I thought the summit was one of these.