Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: swain_drfc on January 23, 2021, 04:59:40 pm
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That team screamed of being scared. I understand that the squad is thin at the moment but as soon as we brought Taylor Richards on the pitch who wanted the ball at his feet and drive at West Ham we started to create. DM got it wrong today.
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That team screamed of being scared. I understand that the squad is thin at the moment but as soon as we brought Taylor Richards on the pitch who wanted the ball at his feet and drive at West Ham we started to create. DM got it wrong today.
I agree totally
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West Ham were coasting when Richards came on.
They did a professional job on us. They took the game seriously and we were never going to be in it in those circumstances.
Take it on the chin, forget it and win on Tuesday.
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If Richards was dropped due to being naffed off at being subbed on Tuesday, well I dont know what to say..
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You are going to take a bashing for this swain but I totally agree. Out with a whimper and not the look of a team who should be full of confidence. I dont think anybody expected a win but a fight would have been nice.
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Always going to be hard when they take it seriously but conceding after 1min means it's hard to say with how Moore set us up. Obviously wasn't the plan.
What i would say is 4 centre halves at the back against quicker cleverer players isn't the way to go. Blackburn pitch was terrible so suited that game but Wright and John couldn't get close anyone.
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West Ham were coasting when Richards came on.
They did a professional job on us. They took the game seriously and we were never going to be in it in those circumstances.
Take it on the chin, forget it and win on Tuesday.
Agree with all this but I also agree Moore got it wrong.
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Agree that Taylor Richards should have been on from the start. No doubt he will be for the game that matters on Tuesday.
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I give praise to West Ham for picking such a strong starting eleven .As far our lads they stuck to the job and did not let their heads drop .Darren does warrant that the first post match thread to criticise him...but maybe that is another matter .
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I agree 100%, Darren got it wrong today, should of started with Richards and dropped John, we looked a completely different team going forward when Richards came on.
Big game on Tuesday, this one has gone now, chins up and move on.
Must admit though, West Ham do look a bloody good team this year, good luck to them honestly
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Yeah, whilst I'm pretty flat about that game - I'm not quite sure what anybody got out of it. The league is what matters, and so does getting players in.
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West Ham were coasting when Richards came on.
They did a professional job on us. They took the game seriously and we were never going to be in it in those circumstances.
Take it on the chin, forget it and win on Tuesday.
Totally agree
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You are having a laugh, surely? Even if we’d still had Whiteman, Sims and JJ fit, we would have lost that game. We’re down to the absolute minimum, squad wise and it showed. That is the most I’ve seen our back 4 look rattled all season.
Recharge and go again on Tuesday.
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Who’s to say Richards wasn’t 100 percent fit? DM may have been protecting him. He did look very good when he came on though.
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West Ham were coasting when Richards came on.
They did a professional job on us. They took the game seriously and we were never going to be in it in those circumstances.
Take it on the chin, forget it and win on Tuesday.
Agree with this. They were never going to let us play football.
Our entire wage bill is capped at £2.5million. That is the equivalent of a player earning 48k per week. West Ham will have several players on double that and I imagine there will be few in their starting XI that earn less than that.
They are a solid top tier team and Moyes wanted to win today. We were never going to win if they gave a shit and it showed in the result.
Good experience, a few quid in our pockets and our next game will seem easy by comparison!
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You are going to take a bashing for this swain but I totally agree. Out with a whimper and not the look of a team who should be full of confidence. I dont think anybody expected a win but a fight would have been nice.
So we didn’t try then? Sorry can’t agree with you. We were up against a team focused on getting the job done and that is what they did. We gave it our best shot we were up against a very good team, high on confidence. Conceding so early certainly did not help.
Yes we looked better when Taylor-Richards and Simoes came on but DM picked the team based on fitness and with a heavy league programme ahead.
Seriously do you think we would have had a chance whatever our starting line up was today.
If a premier league team is focused as West Ham were then it isn’t going to make much difference.
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Shows the strength in depth that West Ham team have got currently put out a very strong team yet made 7 changes.
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I agree. If James and Halliday are filling positions in midfield then the other player in with them has to be more attack minded as those 2 are both naturally defensive. Smith as the holding man is also more defensively minded so where does the spark come from in the middle? Richards balances that equation far better than Smith. Smith on the other hand looked much better when Whiteman could provide the spark next to him as he could be the one providing that “ball winning” role.
I quite like the 4 CB’s across the back line but let’s be honest no combination we posses could combat West Ham’s attack when firing on all cylinders.
If we lost 10-0 today and go on to get promoted then I couldn’t care less. Let’s hope DM learns from today and we move forward.
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Whether a L1 manager with loan players got it wrong against a million pound plus Premiership team is slightly academic. Unlikely we would have done much better against a vastly superior team on the day, if tactics were different. See Forest lost 5.1 at same division Swansea. It happens, as said accept it and move on...
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We were playing the Premiership form team on their home pitch with a choice of 21 quality players against our 13/14. It would have been nice if we could have got more of the ball (which we usually have in L1) but we couldn’t manage that mainly due to the quality of the opposition.
Try not to be ‘gloom and doom’ and let’s be thankful that we have reached the 4th round of the cup, given the players a great experience to learn from, made quite a bit of money and are still very handily placed in L1.
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You are having a laugh, surely? Even if we’d still had Whiteman, Sims and JJ fit, we would have lost that game. We’re down to the absolute minimum, squad wise and it showed. That is the most I’ve seen our back 4 look rattled all season.
Recharge and go again on Tuesday.
Nah not having a laugh fella. I agree we most certainly would have probably lost however there are ways to lose games. I do feel with Taylor Richards in the side we would have looked a lot more threatening and would have had that outlet to switch defence into attack. That starting line up as I said looked as though we just didn’t want to get hammered. Make your own mind up whether 4-0 is a hammering or not. I’m a massive Moore fan but I just think today he got it wrong.
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The only thing DM will have learnt from today and would already knew we have a paper thin squad. He already said we need more in midfield and today prove it. We move on to Tuesday with only two centre midfield players and utilities we hopefully may have another one for Tuesday. Yes Richards should have started with Smith but they the only two we have for Tuesday. So we move on to the priority game and hopefully we can get a win won’t be easy.
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West Ham did to Rovers (41 places below them) what Wolves should have done to Chorley (109 places below them)
For me the gulf was clear to see after WHU scored early doors and throughout the game but thats what FA Cup games usually produce when Prem play Div 1 and as BST said above lets batter AFCW as that is where we need to be getting a result
Anyway we would not have beaten LFC
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We've had a good run & made a few much needed bob. Full credit to WH & Moyes today, class apart but made sure they had the right attitude to make it count.
We'd have lost that game whatever side we put out today, what if Richards had started & got injured? As it is he's hopefully fresh & hungry for Tuesday, along with AJ.
Onwards & upwards, back to the main event.
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You are going to take a bashing for this swain but I totally agree. Out with a whimper and not the look of a team who should be full of confidence. I dont think anybody expected a win but a fight would have been nice.
So we didn’t try then? Sorry can’t agree with you. We were up against a team focused on getting the job done and that is what they did. We gave it our best shot we were up against a very good team, high on confidence. Conceding so early certainly did not help.
Yes we looked better when Taylor-Richards and Simoes came on but DM picked the team based on fitness and with a heavy league programme ahead.
Seriously do you think we would have had a chance whatever our starting line up was today.
If a premier league team is focused as West Ham were then it isn’t going to make much difference.
Can I just ask how you know Moore picked the team based on "fitness and a heavy league programme"? Also yes conceding early killed us as you say. Therefore we went out with a whimper. Created next to nothing, team selection very negative. What do you want me to say? Can I just point out to you if you care to read my post again that I said i didnt expect to win. Do you really think we had a real go and gave a propper account of ourselves? If you do then im out.
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I thought West Ham played very well today and shows the strength in depth but the side they put out was by no means packed with first team regulars - only 4 of the 11 have played regularly for them recently.
I was disappointed first half that we didn’t really look up for it and we gave them too much respect but to be fair we made more of a fight in the second half. We were second best to a better team so no real complaints from me.
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That team screamed of being scared. I understand that the squad is thin at the moment but as soon as we brought Taylor Richards on the pitch who wanted the ball at his feet and drive at West Ham we started to create. DM got it wrong today.
Did you want to win today or Tuesday because DM understood with a depleted side lack quality to pick from upfront , weakness through gaps midfield and lack of numbers over all to select from , so 4-0 was a good score if we win 2-0 on Tuesday in the league .
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West Ham did to Rovers (41 places below them) what Wolves should have done to Chorley (109 places below them)
For me the gulf was clear to see after WHU scored early doors and throughout the game but thats what FA Cup games usually produce when Prem play Div 1 and as BST said above lets batter AFCW as that is where we need to be getting a result
Anyway we would not have beaten LFC
Think we might have had more chance against Liverpool today than West Ham. But it is irrelevant.
We move on and the focus is on getting 3 points on Tuesday.
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That team screamed of being scared. I understand that the squad is thin at the moment but as soon as we brought Taylor Richards on the pitch who wanted the ball at his feet and drive at West Ham we started to create. DM got it wrong today.
Did you want to win today or Tuesday because DM understood with a depleted side lack quality to pick from upfront , weakness through gaps midfield and lack of numbers over all to select from , so 4-0 was a good score if we win 2-0 on Tuesday in the league .
Oh my goodness - I find myself agreeing with since-1969. What on earth is happening with the world?
I think Moore got it spot on today if the plan was to get this game done and prepare for Tuesday.
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Disappointing to go the same way as the Palace game, L1 results rubbing a bit of salt into it too.
Hopefully a quick 3pts heals all wounds.
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I think that his team selection was to stop them scoring and keep us in the game as long as possible. That went out of the window very early unfortunately.
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I thought West Ham played very well today and shows the strength in depth but the side they put out was by no means packed with first team regulars - only 4 of the 11 have played regularly for them recently.
I was disappointed first half that we didn’t really look up for it and we gave them too much respect but to be fair we made more of a fight in the second half. We were second best to a better team so no real complaints from me.
Spot on. WHU put out a decent side and played some very nice intricate football from the kick off. Disappointing first half, better in the 2nd half, the occasion got the better of a few of the players but that doesn't make them bad players. Whilst it was important to give a good account of themselves today, the side will have been picked with the league position and coming fixtures in mind.
Personally, I feel the side is threadbare, lacks depth, more so now that Whiteman has moved on, and has one or two players in the squad that are not up to League one. But then again DM and his management team are doing an excellent job with what they have.
Just hope that they can keep their league form going and continue to push for the top spots. I for one will be willing them on week after week and will be delighted if they can get something from this season.
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That team screamed of being scared. I understand that the squad is thin at the moment but as soon as we brought Taylor Richards on the pitch who wanted the ball at his feet and drive at West Ham we started to create. DM got it wrong today.
Did you want to win today or Tuesday because DM understood with a depleted side lack quality to pick from upfront , weakness through gaps midfield and lack of numbers over all to select from , so 4-0 was a good score if we win 2-0 on Tuesday in the league .
Oh my goodness - I find myself agreeing with since-1969. What on earth is happening with the world?
I think Moore got it spot on today if the plan was to get this game done and prepare for Tuesday.
Since-1969 must have changed identity.
I think he is one of the best posters over the last few months imo. There was a time i disagreed with nearly all his posts.
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He seems to be managing Richards a little and that's understandable. What's happened to other young loan players should tell the story, all of them have struggled with volume of games.
We all know we are short on bodies. I'm not sure what more the manager could do today.
There were positives. More fitness for Taylor and some of the youngsters will learn from a game against a team full of international quality.
The disappointment is understandable though. The goals were soft and some players didn't really get going. But equally they are never going to play at that level, the gap these days is crazy.
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I really felt this morning that we stood a chance. West Ham clearly took the game seriously, kudos to them for doing so and showing us the respect to put a strong team out - they did to us what we did to fcum in the first round - took the game seriously, showed their class and got a very strong result in their favour.
All that said a goal inside the first two minutes was a kick in the teeth before we even got into the game.
Well played Whum, well done rovers for getting to round 4 again, now let's go get promotion from this league.
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Exactly BFYP
DM is not stupid he knows exactly what he is doing. Young players need managing in the right way and that is what he is doing.
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Players will be rested, were not playing every player Saturday-Tuesday-Saturday-Tuesday.
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You are going to take a bashing for this swain but I totally agree. Out with a whimper and not the look of a team who should be full of confidence. I dont think anybody expected a win but a fight would have been nice.
So we didn’t try then? Sorry can’t agree with you. We were up against a team focused on getting the job done and that is what they did. We gave it our best shot we were up against a very good team, high on confidence. Conceding so early certainly did not help.
Yes we looked better when Taylor-Richards and Simoes came on but DM picked the team based on fitness and with a heavy league programme ahead.
Seriously do you think we would have had a chance whatever our starting line up was today.
If a premier league team is focused as West Ham were then it isn’t going to make much difference.
Can I just ask how you know Moore picked the team based on "fitness and a heavy league programme"? Also yes conceding early killed us as you say. Therefore we went out with a whimper. Created next to nothing, team selection very negative. What do you want me to say? Can I just point out to you if you care to read my post again that I said i didnt expect to win. Do you really think we had a real go and gave a propper account of ourselves? If you do then im out.
Yes I do. We gave it it our best shot.
There is a massive gulf in the two squads. We were beaten by a better team end of imo.
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Exactly BFYP
DM isn’t stupid he knows exactly what he is doing. Young players need managing in the top right way and that is what he is doing.
Not saying that he’s done anything wrong here with Richards but Moore is still a relatively young, inexperienced manager - he’s going to make mistakes, regardless of how highly we all rate him.
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I think that his team selection was to stop them scoring and keep us in the game as long as possible. That went out of the window very early unfortunately.
I thought exactly the same when I saw the line up, Richards & Simoes were on the bench ready for when we were ready to gamble. Like you say, all went out of the window after 90 seconds, ah well.
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Don’t like how the only post match thread has to have a heading like this ..just saying again .
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Don’t like how the only post match thread has to have a heading like this ..just saying again .
You don't like anything negative being said at all ..just saying
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Yes it's the FA cup but in reality it isn't at this time .
In normal times Rovers are backed by 5k fans at The London Stadium and it's a good day out even if you lose 4-0 .
It will be the same for me should Chelsea progress tomorrow against Luton and set up a fifth round tie at Oakwell against ourselves .
An empty stadium and watching on tv doesn't quite do it for me Chelsea or not .
We just about accept the league games on our various devices but glamour FA cup ties against PL opposition is very frustrating .
It's what the FA cup is all about and we can't be there .
Very sad times .
I do take the point context should be in there but I'm sure you all know what I mean .
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Don’t like how the only post match thread has to have a heading like this ..just saying again .
Start your own thread? For someone who professes to hate negativity you don’t half spend a lot of time being negative about posts and posters.
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Don’t like how the only post match thread has to have a heading like this ..just saying again .
Agreed graingrover. DM picked that team with a lot of thought i would expect.
Yes I would like to have seen both TJ & Simoes start but he will have his reasons for not starting them.
Maybe 26 league games in the next 14 weeks might have had something to do with that.
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There was absolutely nothing going into that game that could work in our favour. It came at the worst possible time and was always going to be a case of damage limitation.
The only good thing that could happen, is coming out of the game with no injuries. Hopefully, we have achieved that.
Tuesday is a bigger game for us.
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I agree DM got it wrong today. Too many square pegs in round holes. Halliday should have played RB etc. But with the limited squad we currently have his hands were somewhat tied
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If Richards has a stormer on Tuesday night and we win, I'll be delighted that he rested him today. He has to manage these younger players for their minutes, and he had very little option in terms of rotation today. It is what it is, we were well beaten by a better side.
I wish we had shown more of our qualities but it was not to be. No need to get at the manager or any of the players in my opinion.
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I thought Richards would’ve made a big difference if he’d been in from the off but DM must have had his reasons.
We looked quite a bit brighter when he and Simoes came on.
I felt for Joe Wright. He did a decent job but playing full back is a completely different kettle of fish to centre half, and it can’t have been easy to have been thrown into that against the quality of player he was up against today.
In the end WHU didn’t have an off day, which we would’ve needed to get something, and I think we looked a bit overawed and didn’t do the basics right at times - the number of sloppy mistakes and passes we gave away at times, we would never see in a league game. Maybe the early goal knocked the stuffing out of us.
It was a shame to never really get a foot hold in the game but it’s hard to be too harsh given the difference in quality and money between the two squads.
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I was frustrated at first when Richards didn't start and we were chasing shadows for long periods. I know the game was more or less lost when he came on but you've got to take the positives , hopefully there's elements we can take from the game and learn from also but he was head and shoulders above anyone on the pitch when he was introduced and looks a real class act, hopefully he can carry those performances on in the league and drive us forward.
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Don't think any of us seriously considered an upset today, just disappointed that we didn't give a good account of ourselves on the big stage. Not sure DM got it wrong. We played a Premier league club in form and were well beaten. As the old cliche says, we can now concentrate on the league. Onwards and upwards. RTID
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After seeing Richards perform when he came on, I thought to myself, we can kiss goodbye to him at the end of his loan period, he's well out of our league, and was the only player of ours that didn't really look out of place up against WHU. A star in the making IMHO.
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All this talk about how we should have started with Taylor Richards.
Anyone want to hazard a guess when was the last time he completed 90 minutes?
12 September last year.
Whatever the lad's talents (and they are plenty) an engine that keeps going Sat-Tues-Sat ain't one of them.
He is critical to the rest of our season. We have an insane run of fixtures coming up. Giving him a lung busting runaround for 70 mins today, then expecting him to run the match on Tuesday would have been rank bad management.
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A voice of reason BST
Pleased there are a few of us who can see the big picture.
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A voice of reason BST
Pleased there are a few of us who can see the big picture.
So the rest of us don't know anything about football?
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I find it is a much better philosophy in life rather than to be constantly sounding like puffed up peacocks Janso .
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A voice of reason BST
Pleased there are a few of us who can see the big picture.
Yes it must be wonderful to have your wisdom Campsall.
We are not worthy.
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Campsall, you also said that we gave it our best shot.
That’s another cliche and it’s totally incorrect.
We didn’t give that our best shot. We have much better shots. We went out with a whimper, let’s have the guts to admit that.
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Taylor Richards will be a starter on Tuesday and so will Simoes.
Lokilo offers nothing and since his injury Taylor has looked nowhere near what we've seen him play like. Either could make way Tuesday
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I find it is a much better philosophy in life rather than to be constantly sounding like puffed up peacocks Janso .
No you just prefer to make sly digs at people for no reason on a football forum.
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Campsall, you also said that we gave it our best shot.
That’s another cliche and it’s totally incorrect.
We didn’t give that our best shot. We have much better shots. We went out with a whimper, let’s have the guts to admit that.
That's right Pancho. Chorley and Cheltenham showed how to give it a good shot.
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Taylor Richards will be a starter on Tuesday and so will Simoes.
Lokilo offers nothing and since his injury Taylor has looked nowhere near what we've seen him play like. Either could make way Tuesday
Unfortunately Lokilo flaters to device, another Kyle Bennett
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They were both playing at home though. Just like us when we dumped Man City and Villa out of the League Cup and almost doing the same to Arsenal.
West Ham will be used to playing at their stadium whereas it was somewhere most of our lads could only dream of playing. I think had we had 5,000 of our fans among a big crowd there we would have done better.
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A voice of reason BST
Pleased there are a few of us who can see the big picture.
So the rest of us don't know anything about football?
Did I or anyone else say that SS? No I did not, nor was that implied.
Do you not you think DM is looking after our younger players?
It is only DM and the coaching staff that sees them day after day and knows their fitness levels. Not you or me or anyone else.
I trust DMs judgement in selection.
If we start losing matches on a regular basis then questions can be asked.
Really do not see what he is doing wrong at the moment 7 wins out of 8 in the league speaks for itself.
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They were both playing at home though. Just like us when we dumped Man City and Villa out of the League Cup and almost doing the same to Arsenal.
West Ham will be used to playing at their stadium whereas it was somewhere most of our lads could only dream of playing. I think had we had 5,000 of our fans among a big crowd there we would have done better.
And they would have had 45,000 of their fans getting behind them Idler.
No fans at the stadium today should have worked in our favour, not theirs.
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Some people think this forum is a place for opinion.
Others think it's a place for worship.
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A voice of reason BST
Pleased there are a few of us who can see the big picture.
So the rest of us don't know anything about football?
Did I or anyone else say that SS? No I did not, nor was that implied.
Do you not you think DM is looking after our younger players.
It is only DM and the coaching staff that sees them day after day and knows their fitness levels. Not you or me or anyone else.
I trust DMs judgement in selection.
If we start losing matches on a regular basis then questions can be asked.
Really do not see what he is doing wrong at the moment 7 wins out of 8 in the league speaks for itself.
You won’t be shot if you express disappointment in today’s performance.
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They were both playing at home though. Just like us when we dumped Man City and Villa out of the League Cup and almost doing the same to Arsenal.
West Ham will be used to playing at their stadium whereas it was somewhere most of our lads could only dream of playing. I think had we had 5,000 of our fans among a big crowd there we would have done better.
And they would have had 45,000 of their fans getting behind them Idler.
No fans at the stadium today should have worked in our favour, not theirs.
We’re you at Derby when we beat them 1-0? We were outnumbered that day but we outsang them.
It doesn’t always follow that the most followers make the most noise.
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They were both playing at home though. Just like us when we dumped Man City and Villa out of the League Cup and almost doing the same to Arsenal.
West Ham will be used to playing at their stadium whereas it was somewhere most of our lads could only dream of playing. I think had we had 5,000 of our fans among a big crowd there we would have done better.
And they would have had 45,000 of their fans getting behind them Idler.
No fans at the stadium today should have worked in our favour, not theirs.
Not necessarily. The atmosphere could easily have worked against them - it can be pretty toxic in there when things aren't going their way.
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They were both playing at home though. Just like us when we dumped Man City and Villa out of the League Cup and almost doing the same to Arsenal.
West Ham will be used to playing at their stadium whereas it was somewhere most of our lads could only dream of playing. I think had we had 5,000 of our fans among a big crowd there we would have done better.
And they would have had 45,000 of their fans getting behind them Idler.
No fans at the stadium today should have worked in our favour, not theirs.
We’re you at Derby when we beat them 1-0? We were outnumbered that day but we outsung them.
It doesn’t always follow that the most followers make the most noise.
Yeah I was there Idler, one of the best days of my Rovers-supporting life.
I get what you say, don’t want to disagree with you. Just a bit fed up mate.
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Pancho I’ve been far more disappointed over the years losing to far worse teams than West Ham.
I just feel that the whole FA cup this year seems a bit surreal and not as normal. We would have normally made far more from this run and at least we are still in with a decent shout at promotion.
All part of being a Rovers fan and there are far worse things happening than losing a match. Have a beer and get ready for Tuesday. :scarf: :scarf:
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Could be worse, gents.
Could have won then we'd have missed out on away days to both West Ham and Man United/Liverpool!
Onto Tuesday.
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Pancho I’ve been far more disappointed over the years losing to far worse teams than West Ham.
I just feel that the whole FA cup this year seems a bit surreal and not as normal. We would have normally made far more from this run and at least we are still in with a decent shout at promotion.
All part of being a Rovers fan and there are far worse things happening than losing a match. Have a beer and get ready for Tuesday. :scarf: :scarf:
Agreed mate, and at least I’m at home with my feet up in front of a roaring log fire with a glass of wine in my hand, rather than driving home up the M1 from London as I would have been!
All the best.
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In my book not everyone gets it all right all of the time, how many times has DM let us down in all the games we have played under him. If people keep on knowing him he WILL walk away and not many want him to do that
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You are going to take a bashing for this swain but I totally agree. Out with a whimper and not the look of a team who should be full of confidence. I dont think anybody expected a win but a fight would have been nice.
So we didn’t try then? Sorry can’t agree with you. We were up against a team focused on getting the job done and that is what they did. We gave it our best shot we were up against a very good team, high on confidence. Conceding so early certainly did not help.
Yes we looked better when Taylor-Richards and Simoes came on but DM picked the team based on fitness and with a heavy league programme ahead.
Seriously do you think we would have had a chance whatever our starting line up was today.
If a premier league team is focused as West Ham were then it isn’t going to make much difference.
Can I just ask how you know Moore picked the team based on "fitness and a heavy league programme"? Also yes conceding early killed us as you say. Therefore we went out with a whimper. Created next to nothing, team selection very negative. What do you want me to say? Can I just point out to you if you care to read my post again that I said i didnt expect to win. Do you really think we had a real go and gave a propper account of ourselves? If you do then im out.
Yes I do. We gave it it our best shot.
There is a massive gulf in the two squads. We were beaten by a better team end of imo.
You seem very good at just accepting defeats Campsall. Doesnt make you less of a supporter for giving an opinion on where we think we went wrong. Were all also very aware of how good of a team West Ham are and how professional their performance was. However, If you think that was our best shot then Im sorry but I completely disagree. How is playing 2 fullbacks as midfield sitters giving it our best shot at threatening the opposition. Because thats my argument here. Not that we beat them or ran them close but that we never threatened their goal. Now you can argue with me all night if you want because DM says players learn different positions to play different formations in different games but the fact remains Halliday is our best RB and James is our best LB. As another poster has mentioned the team seems like it was picked to keep out the opposition for as long as possible. Which I agree with. The gulf in class is irrelevant. We should have been better. DM himself has said this post match. Not once did he say we gave it our best shot.
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You are going to take a bashing for this swain but I totally agree. Out with a whimper and not the look of a team who should be full of confidence. I dont think anybody expected a win but a fight would have been nice.
So we didn’t try then? Sorry can’t agree with you. We were up against a team focused on getting the job done and that is what they did. We gave it our best shot we were up against a very good team, high on confidence. Conceding so early certainly did not help.
Yes we looked better when Taylor-Richards and Simoes came on but DM picked the team based on fitness and with a heavy league programme ahead.
Seriously do you think we would have had a chance whatever our starting line up was today.
If a premier league team is focused as West Ham were then it isn’t going to make much difference.
Can I just ask how you know Moore picked the team based on "fitness and a heavy league programme"? Also yes conceding early killed us as you say. Therefore we went out with a whimper. Created next to nothing, team selection very negative. What do you want me to say? Can I just point out to you if you care to read my post again that I said i didnt expect to win. Do you really think we had a real go and gave a propper account of ourselves? If you do then im out.
Yes I do. We gave it it our best shot.
There is a massive gulf in the two squads. We were beaten by a better team end of imo.
You seem very good at just accepting defeats Campsall. Doesnt make you less of a supporter for giving an opinion on where we think we went wrong. Were all also very aware of how good of a team West Ham are and how professional their performance was. However, If you think that was our best shot then Im sorry but I completely disagree. How is playing 2 fullbacks as midfield sitters giving it our best shot at threatening the opposition. Because thats my argument here. Not that we beat them or ran them close but that we never threatened their goal. Now you can argue with me all night if you want because DM says players learn different positions to play different formations in different games but the fact remains Halliday is our best RB and James is our best LB. As another poster has mentioned the team seems like it was picked to keep out the opposition for as long as possible. Which I agree with. The gulf in class is irrelevant. We should have been better. DM himself has said this post match. Not once did he say we gave it our best shot.
We played Halliday and James in midfield at Blackburn and we won. Did we not give it our best shot in that game either.
Look I prefer Halliday at RB to Wright every day of the week. Wright is a centre back.
DM is short on numbers and obviously had his reasons for not starting Taylor-Richards or Simoes.
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I don't think anyone would say we gave it our best shot. We didn't. Given current circumstances, and sad to say it, it was a game too far for us. I don't think DM was prepared to go all guns blazing and risk losing any more players when the main objective is the league. I'm sure in different circumstances, we would have seen a different set up and Richards in from the start.
Losing valiantly 3-2 is still the same outcome.
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You are going to take a bashing for this swain but I totally agree. Out with a whimper and not the look of a team who should be full of confidence. I dont think anybody expected a win but a fight would have been nice.
So we didn’t try then? Sorry can’t agree with you. We were up against a team focused on getting the job done and that is what they did. We gave it our best shot we were up against a very good team, high on confidence. Conceding so early certainly did not help.
Yes we looked better when Taylor-Richards and Simoes came on but DM picked the team based on fitness and with a heavy league programme ahead.
Seriously do you think we would have had a chance whatever our starting line up was today.
If a premier league team is focused as West Ham were then it isn’t going to make much difference.
Can I just ask how you know Moore picked the team based on "fitness and a heavy league programme"? Also yes conceding early killed us as you say. Therefore we went out with a whimper. Created next to nothing, team selection very negative. What do you want me to say? Can I just point out to you if you care to read my post again that I said i didnt expect to win. Do you really think we had a real go and gave a propper account of ourselves? If you do then im out.
Yes I do. We gave it it our best shot.
There is a massive gulf in the two squads. We were beaten by a better team end of imo.
You seem very good at just accepting defeats Campsall. Doesnt make you less of a supporter for giving an opinion on where we think we went wrong. Were all also very aware of how good of a team West Ham are and how professional their performance was. However, If you think that was our best shot then Im sorry but I completely disagree. How is playing 2 fullbacks as midfield sitters giving it our best shot at threatening the opposition. Because thats my argument here. Not that we beat them or ran them close but that we never threatened their goal. Now you can argue with me all night if you want because DM says players learn different positions to play different formations in different games but the fact remains Halliday is our best RB and James is our best LB. As another poster has mentioned the team seems like it was picked to keep out the opposition for as long as possible. Which I agree with. The gulf in class is irrelevant. We should have been better. DM himself has said this post match. Not once did he say we gave it our best shot.
We played Halliday and James in midfield at Blackburn and we won. Did we not give it our best shot in that game either.
Look I prefer Halliday at RB to Wright every day of the week. Wright is a centre back.
DM is short on numbers and obviously had his reasons for not starting Taylor-Richards or Simoes.
I can honestly say no we didnt. Again we created nothing and it took a goalkeeping error and an excellent defensive display to win it but people will never criticise when we win whether there is an issue with the performance or not. We were never going to get away with that again today and we didnt. The difference between the 2 games was we were up against much better opposition.
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Yeah but we gave it our best shot.
Campsall says so.
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You are going to take a bashing for this swain but I totally agree. Out with a whimper and not the look of a team who should be full of confidence. I dont think anybody expected a win but a fight would have been nice.
So we didn’t try then? Sorry can’t agree with you. We were up against a team focused on getting the job done and that is what they did. We gave it our best shot we were up against a very good team, high on confidence. Conceding so early certainly did not help.
Yes we looked better when Taylor-Richards and Simoes came on but DM picked the team based on fitness and with a heavy league programme ahead.
Seriously do you think we would have had a chance whatever our starting line up was today.
If a premier league team is focused as West Ham were then it isn’t going to make much difference.
Can I just ask how you know Moore picked the team based on "fitness and a heavy league programme"? Also yes conceding early killed us as you say. Therefore we went out with a whimper. Created next to nothing, team selection very negative. What do you want me to say? Can I just point out to you if you care to read my post again that I said i didnt expect to win. Do you really think we had a real go and gave a propper account of ourselves? If you do then im out.
Yes I do. We gave it it our best shot.
There is a massive gulf in the two squads. We were beaten by a better team end of imo.
You seem very good at just accepting defeats Campsall. Doesnt make you less of a supporter for giving an opinion on where we think we went wrong. Were all also very aware of how good of a team West Ham are and how professional their performance was. However, If you think that was our best shot then Im sorry but I completely disagree. How is playing 2 fullbacks as midfield sitters giving it our best shot at threatening the opposition. Because thats my argument here. Not that we beat them or ran them close but that we never threatened their goal. Now you can argue with me all night if you want because DM says players learn different positions to play different formations in different games but the fact remains Halliday is our best RB and James is our best LB. As another poster has mentioned the team seems like it was picked to keep out the opposition for as long as possible. Which I agree with. The gulf in class is irrelevant. We should have been better. DM himself has said this post match. Not once did he say we gave it our best shot.
We played Halliday and James in midfield at Blackburn and we won. Did we not give it our best shot in that game either.
Look I prefer Halliday at RB to Wright every day of the week. Wright is a centre back.
DM is short on numbers and obviously had his reasons for not starting Taylor-Richards or Simoes.
You are going to take a bashing for this swain but I totally agree. Out with a whimper and not the look of a team who should be full of confidence. I dont think anybody expected a win but a fight would have been nice.
So we didn’t try then? Sorry can’t agree with you. We were up against a team focused on getting the job done and that is what they did. We gave it our best shot we were up against a very good team, high on confidence. Conceding so early certainly did not help.
Yes we looked better when Taylor-Richards and Simoes came on but DM picked the team based on fitness and with a heavy league programme ahead.
Seriously do you think we would have had a chance whatever our starting line up was today.
If a premier league team is focused as West Ham were then it isn’t going to make much difference.
Can I just ask how you know Moore picked the team based on "fitness and a heavy league programme"? Also yes conceding early killed us as you say. Therefore we went out with a whimper. Created next to nothing, team selection very negative. What do you want me to say? Can I just point out to you if you care to read my post again that I said i didnt expect to win. Do you really think we had a real go and gave a propper account of ourselves? If you do then im out.
Yes I do. We gave it it our best shot.
There is a massive gulf in the two squads. We were beaten by a better team end of imo.
You seem very good at just accepting defeats Campsall. Doesnt make you less of a supporter for giving an opinion on where we think we went wrong. Were all also very aware of how good of a team West Ham are and how professional their performance was. However, If you think that was our best shot then Im sorry but I completely disagree. How is playing 2 fullbacks as midfield sitters giving it our best shot at threatening the opposition. Because thats my argument here. Not that we beat them or ran them close but that we never threatened their goal. Now you can argue with me all night if you want because DM says players learn different positions to play different formations in different games but the fact remains Halliday is our best RB and James is our best LB. As another poster has mentioned the team seems like it was picked to keep out the opposition for as long as possible. Which I agree with. The gulf in class is irrelevant. We should have been better. DM himself has said this post match. Not once did he say we gave it our best shot.
We played Halliday and James in midfield at Blackburn and we won. Did we not give it our best shot in that game either.
Look I prefer Halliday at RB to Wright every day of the week. Wright is a centre back.
DM is short on numbers and obviously had his reasons for not starting Taylor-Richards or Simoes.
I can honestly say no we didnt. Again we created nothing and it took a goalkeeping error and an excellent defensive display to win it but people will never criticise when we win whether there is an issue with the performance or not. We were never going to get away with that again today and we didnt. The difference between the 2 games was we were up against much better opposition.
Totally agree, we were totally outclassed today & I can take that, but that wasn't a cup game today where the lower league side at least have a go, at no stage did we throw caution to the wind. It was like a preseason friendly for them. Not having the saving it for the league bit either, everyone has injuries, look at Cheltenham tonight, they are handily placed in their league, didn’t stop them having a go. As has been said, we went out with a whimper. Big shout for one of out of position players, thought Jo Wright played well.
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Agreed Les, Joe was my MOM
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We did not play at our best today but question if DM had chosen Halliday at right back and James at left back
With Smith and Richards in midfield who would have been the third centre midfield player.
If Lokilo is not good enough who would have played in place of him.
We only had one player who could played both positions that was Simoes.
No Greaves cup tied, No Copps injured, No Gomes injured, No JJ injured, No Whiteman left the club not replaced yet, No Sims injured loan finished not replaced yet.
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That is pretty much the only real change we could of made was Halliday at right back James had to play in midfield really.
We did go out with a whimper but it was more to do with attitude than selection. Seemed to accept our fate when West Ham went 1-0 and just play the game out. As others have said West Ham were class I’m not sure playing more aggressively would have changed a thing but we never had a go or tried to take the game to West Ham no one can say that.
All’s forgiven if we win Tuesday looking at our position who can blame us for focusing on the league.
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As I mentioned on another thread we should have prepared ourselves better for a defensive game, which means James and Halliday in their defensive positions,
that makes the Defence tight, now wright and John in front to add a solid defensive midfield but both can play a bit, not too much mind
Now add Richards smith and Taylor with fej waiting for any scraps
This team would have DEFENDED a lot better than what we put out, to even think that we might be able to compete let alone get a goal there is utter madness...
This in my opinion was the error...
We didn’t look good because we were not equipped to do so....
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Amos was available. He could have played left back.
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Don't think any of us seriously considered an upset today, just disappointed that we didn't give a good account of ourselves on the big stage. Not sure DM got it wrong. We played a Premier league club in form and were well beaten. As the old cliche says, we can now concentrate on the league. Onwards and upwards. RTID
We don’t do loosing on here well , but to criticise our team when our priorities are NoT the FA cup is just not seeing the true picture ,of players performing to instruction . Not saying that we didn’t try but when you go 1-0 down in less than a minute , I should imagine what belief or confidence that a shock could happen hit the reality button and we just showed them too much respect from there on in and didn’t get out of that mind set from that moment to the end of the game .
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I wonder what people would have said if we had had a good go and lost by an even bigger margin?
Also what would that have done for the team’s morale?
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The FA Cup is a chance for the undogs to have a go and Chorley and Cheltenham did just that. We showed good ball control but have no teeth and barely ever threatened West Ham. We are sadly lacking strikers or anyone who can put fear into the opposition.
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If we aren't going to "have a go" Idler what is the point of even turning up? We should have a go at every team we are facing, but we need to be able to do more than just pass the ball around nicely.
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6 defenders in the outfield 10, we were never set up to have a go, which was very disappointing
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I think that the idea was to keep it tight and maybe have a go later in the game as pressure built on the home side. Without changing the players on the pitch I don’t see how we could have had a go once we conceded so early. Making changes very early in the game was a non-starter leaving you with fewer options on the bench later.
I was as disappointed as anyone but we got it wrong and just need to move on as quickly as possible. As well as they played we made mistakes for all four of their goals.
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DM went with a plan based on hoping to stay in the game long enough to give it a go in the 2nd half. Conceding in the first two minutes completely messed that up and he had no realistic choice to rejig the strategy whilst conserving energy for the Tuesday fixture.
He gambled and it didn't come off.
I'm sure every one of you saying we didn't give it our best would still 100% expect us to be giving ourselves the best chance of the three points on Tuesday night, in which case IMO, every one of you have unrealistic expectations. DM made his plan based on realistic priorities and he called it exactly right.
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6 defenders in the outfield 10, we were never set up to have a go, which was very disappointing
That was how we set up at Blackburn.
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Rovers play from the back in league matches and on many occasions are unable to find openings going forward, resulting in constantly playing the ball sideways and backwards, often ending up back to the keeper and starting again. Although sometimes frustrating to watch, our league position shows it is obviously a successful system and credit is due to Darren Moore for getting the best out of his squad by playing that way.
If Rovers struggle to find openings going forward against league one sides, it's obvious that they'd find it nigh on impossible against sides like West Ham. Our predictability was well exposed, and as a result, we had no answer and it looked like we froze.
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6 defenders in the outfield 10, we were never set up to have a go, which was very disappointing
That was how we set up at Blackburn.
I know, and defended well against a Championship side, but lets be honest, we scored from a goalkeeping error and they should have really scored a few, we played well as well as got lucky then
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A voice of reason BST
Pleased there are a few of us who can see the big picture.
So the rest of us don't know anything about football?
I always said you had an eye for a good player ;)
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Some people think this forum is a place for opinion.
Others think it's a place for worship.
And some even think it's a place for talking bo!!ocks
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Some people think this forum is a place for opinion.
Others think it's a place for worship.
And some even think it's a place for talking bo!!ocks
You'll find that's the case with every forum. Sad thing is, those that do talk Bo!!ocks are usually the ones who are oblivious of it.
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Too true BB, too true!
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Too true BB, too true!
Ignorance is bliss and all that!
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Trouble is sometimes can't work out it's ignorance or deliberate
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Yes, give me an example and I'll try to help you. Great minds and all that.
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I'm sure you don't need my help in finding examples
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I don't need YOUR help! I'm trying to help YOU out with your trouble in working out if the bo!!ocks people talk is deliberate or through ignorance. I really don't mind, it isn't a problem.
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Another thread hyjacked and taken off topic by the usual suspect!
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Another thread hyjacked and taken off topic by the usual suspect!
I hope you're not referring to me here.
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All i ever ask is at least give it a go ................if not going too...pull all our players back who are on loan and let them see what can happen to them if they just give all .......you never know 1 or 2 may shine...and be picked up for a few £££s and further their careers and help our coffers or is it coughers..........lol
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just thinking .............looking at it another way ..i bet Man u and Liverpool were scared s**tless about playing us if we won...................
they would think they would kill us..................
just for the hell of it i would have wrote a WIN for us ................and go into equal 1st place as others would have put lose.....
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All the teams from Championship, League 1 or League 2 or non league playing a Premier league side were beaten in round 4 of the FA cup yes we could have give it a go but we would have got the same result.
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All the teams from Championship, League 1 or League 2 or non league playing a Premier league side were beaten in round 4 of the FA cup yes we could have give it a go but we would have got the same result.
There's absolutely no correlation between our game and others. None whatsoever.
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Darren Moore with these words sends the players back to training for the promotion push motivated by his words rather than demotivated by the defeat . As a club, we’re on a journey and we’ve made huge strides but it was a bridge too far on Saturday and we’ll learn a lot from it.”
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Everyone is entitled to dream, or create special fantasies around shock results, but seriously, what did anyone really expect from an away fixture at an in-form Premiership club who are enjoying an excellent season and who fielded a very strong side, at home?
I was dreading Saturday. With the squad available I was hoping we might just keep the deficit to a reasonable score. My biggest fear was an early goal against. When that went in I would have taken 4-0 and said, thank you very much. In reality it could have been many more.
Credit where it's due, West Ham were superb, individually skilful, very creative and organised teamwise and did a professional job on us.
Those clubs who competed reasonably well with much weakened Prem sides tended to do so on bobbly pitches. West Ham's was excellent. And no-one here seems to be affording them much credit for how well they actually played. Good enough to have beaten many Premiership sides and more than comfortably beat ANY League One outfit. They made us look distinctly average, because compared to them, that's what we are.
In reality our game plan was to sit back, get men behind the ball, soak up the early pressure and hope they became frustrated. Perhaps then sneak a goal on the counter attack. We were not set up to take the game to them. That would have been foolish and we would have been picked off time and again by their lightning fast breaks, punished by the sort of forwards we can only but dream of.
Mismatches like this aren't allowed in boxing. We lost gracefully whilst still trying to play a neat passing game. No clogging. No hoofball. Lost to a far superior team. No surprise. No disgrace.
Now is not the time to start castigating the team or the manager. We saw how good we need to be if ever the fan fantasies are ever going to be realised. We are so far away from that it's not true.
You can either enjoy what we have, what we can realistically achieve, or live in some fantasy world where a Billionaire pumps a fortune into the club. I suspect you will wait a long time for the latter.
We lost to West Ham, get over it. Move on. Stop bickering. Back to the bread and butter on Tuesday. That's what really matters.
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Top post that, DonnyBob.
Let’s get back together, as we were before the West Ham game, refocus on getting behind the manager, coaches and players. Together, we can do this.
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Everyone is entitled to dream, or create special fantasies around shock results, but seriously, what did anyone really expect from an away fixture at an in-form Premiership club who are enjoying an excellent season and who fielded a very strong side, at home?
I was dreading Saturday. With the squad available I was hoping we might just keep the deficit to a reasonable score. My biggest fear was an early goal against. When that went in I would have taken 4-0 and said, thank you very much. In reality it could have been many more.
Credit where it's due, West Ham were superb, individually skilful, very creative and organised teamwise and did a professional job on us.
Those clubs who competed reasonably well with much weakened Prem sides tended to do so on bobbly pitches. West Ham's was excellent. And no-one here seems to be affording them much credit for how well they actually played. Good enough to have beaten many Premiership sides and more than comfortably beat ANY League One outfit. They made us look distinctly average, because compared to them, that's what we are.
In reality our game plan was to sit back, get men behind the ball, soak up the early pressure and hope they became frustrated. Perhaps then sneak a goal on the counter attack. We were not set up to take the game to them. That would have been foolish and we would have been picked off time and again by their lightning fast breaks, punished by the sort of forwards we can only but dream of.
Mismatches like this aren't allowed in boxing. We lost gracefully whilst still trying to play a neat passing game. No clogging. No hoofball. Lost to a far superior team. No surprise. No disgrace.
Now is not the time to start castigating the team or the manager. We saw how good we need to be if ever the fan fantasies are ever going to be realised. We are so far away from that it's not true.
You can either enjoy what we have, what we can realistically achieve, or live in some fantasy world where a Billionaire pumps a fortune into the club. I suspect you will wait a long time for the latter.
We lost to West Ham, get over it. Move on. Stop bickering. Back to the bread and butter on Tuesday. That's what really matters.
Great post Donnybob.
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I agree it is a good post, however, rather than picking at DM, I was left wondering are the majority of the current squad even good enough for there next level, should we get there. How many players would we need?
You just start to believe this is a team that could go places, then you get that blast of reality.
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I agree it is a good post, however, rather than picking at DM, I was left wondering are the majority of the current squad even good enough for there next level, should we get there. How many players would we need?
You just start to believe this is a team that could go places, then you get that blast of reality.
That is a question we shouldn't bother ourselves with right now. I think we have an idea of which players are likely to be able to cope at the next level but we have to get there first and how much we have to wheel and deal in the summer will depend on that.
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I agree it is a good post, however, rather than picking at DM, I was left wondering are the majority of the current squad even good enough for there next level, should we get there. How many players would we need?
You just start to believe this is a team that could go places, then you get that blast of reality.
Well we beat Blackburn so does that give a clue to your question? West Ham are in another league both literally and in class.
As DBR says we don’t need to concern ourselves with the step up. We have to achieve it first.
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I agree it is a good post, however, rather than picking at DM, I was left wondering are the majority of the current squad even good enough for there next level, should we get there. How many players would we need?
You just start to believe this is a team that could go places, then you get that blast of reality.
I posted last week on the thread where folk were getting their knickers in a twist about the reliance on loans. My point being that apart from the obvious advantage of getting talent greater than we could expect to get with permanent signings it provides the club with flexibility in its squad staffing. So, with five or six loans in the squad we can flex half the starting eleven painlessly between seasons because they aren't contracted to us.
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Good points :rtid:
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I am not sure how many of our current squad could keep us in the Championship and people will have different views- I think most would agree we are over achieving and that shows what an amazing job DM is doing. As long as he sticks around the players will also keep improving so who knows, they might all be ready for the Championship by next season!
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If we do go up, we only need to find three teams we are better than in order to stay up. There are some perennial bottom feeders in that division and we only have to better them and the likely surprise package from League One in order to give ourselves the chance of survival.
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I like that thinking CBCB.
I remember when we went up to the Championship the first time and looking at the fixture list when it came out and thinking where are the points going to come from.
But they did didn’t they.
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I like that thinking CBCB.
I remember when we went up to the Championship the first time and looking at the fixture list when it came out and thinking where are the points going to come from.
But they did didn’t they.
If the season had started on Boxing Day we would have finished 2nd in the League.
We were also extremely good in the 1st half of the season. We just could not score goals.
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I like that thinking CBCB.
I remember when we went up to the Championship the first time and looking at the fixture list when it came out and thinking where are the points going to come from.
But they did didn’t they.
If the season had started on Boxing Day we would have finished 2nd in the League.
We were also extremely good in the 1st half of the season. We just could not score goals.
I remember that season playing top of the league Wolves just before Christmas at the KM, we totally outplayed them, lost 1-0, came away from the KM wondering how we lost that game, resigned to being relegated, then came Boxing day at the City Ground against Forest, and a 4-2 victory, the rest is history and we survived comfortably
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I like that thinking CBCB.
I remember when we went up to the Championship the first time and looking at the fixture list when it came out and thinking where are the points going to come from.
But they did didn’t they.
If the season had started on Boxing Day we would have finished 2nd in the League.
We were also extremely good in the 1st half of the season. We just could not score goals.
I remember that season playing top of the league Wolves just before Christmas at the KM, we totally outplayed them, lost 1-0, came away from the KM wondering how we lost that game, resigned to being relegated, then came Boxing day at the City Ground against Forest, and a 4-2 victory, the rest is history and we survived comfortably
Ameobi giving that daft free kick away just inside our half. Scored from it.
He was a shambles.
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Never seen a debut like his. Did he ever play for us again after that cameo?
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Don't think so.
We did a check up of him on here other year and I'm sure he was last playing in the Icelandic second division or something equally as obscure.
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If we aren't going to "have a go" Idler what is the point of even turning up? We should have a go at every team we are facing, but we need to be able to do more than just pass the ball around nicely.
Well according to some comments, maybe after going a goal down we should realise it's a bridge too far & give up. This is the FA Cup is it not.
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Tomi Ameobi was last year playing for FC Edmonton in the Canadian Premier League, he was the captain
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Tomi Ameobi was last year playing for FC Edmonton in the Canadian Premier League, he was the captain
Not bad! Achieved more in life than I have so i'll give him that.
I bet he's still shite, though.
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FC Edmonton’s manager is A Koch
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He’s scored 4 in 32 for them.
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FC Edmonton’s manager is A Koch
So is Hull City’s