Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: roversdude on March 12, 2021, 07:27:20 am
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What an arse - wants to impose a 6pm curfew on men to get rid of discrimination.......,,surely this is by discriminating against men
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Even though she called for it I doubt she was ever expecting it to happen. It's probably her response to police saying women shouldn't be out late alone. Women or men should be able to be whether they like at whatever time and feel safe.
Odd though that nothing is mentioned on this forum when women are attacked and murdered But if men's rights are talked about then it's mentioned.
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There are usually threads regarding women and kids being attacked but you are correct it is strange that Sarah Everard wasn’t mentioned. RIP Sarah
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It’s possible for every forum member to start a topic if they think it would create discussion around the topic. I find it odd that someone complaining that the issue has not been mentioned failed to start a thread, perhaps if they did that then discussion would flow
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I'll tag this one on, I thought at the time that if Farrell had immediately supported her by saying she was correct to question their performance it would have put the online heros back in their respective boxes. He may have done since and I missed it but the questions I saw her ask were not particularly hard, wrong or over the top.
''BBC’s Sonja McLaughlan reveals online abuse over Owen Farrell interview''
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/feb/27/bbcs-sonja-mclaughlan-reveals-online-abuse-over-owen-farrell-interview
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It’s possible for every forum member to start a topic if they think it would create discussion around the topic. I find it odd that someone complaining that the issue has not been mentioned failed to start a thread, perhaps if they did that then discussion would flow
What? I was just pointing out B is mentioned without A being mentioned when B is a result of A.
RIP Sarah though.
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I wonder what she thinks would happen to already high male suicide rates should her wish be granted.
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Even though she called for it I doubt she was ever expecting it to happen. It's probably her response to police saying women shouldn't be out late alone. Women or men should be able to be whether they like at whatever time and feel safe.
Odd though that nothing is mentioned on this forum when women are attacked and murdered But if men's rights are talked about then it's mentioned.
Yeah, this. The point is, that by telling women they shouldn't go out alone at night because it's not safe, they're essentially under curfew already. If any blokes are upset by the thought of a curfew - that's the point!
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6pm curfew, makes Friday and Saturday nights on the lash with the lads a bit of a damp squib
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Remember, he said women shouldn’t go out on their own at night, not they shouldn’t be allowed to go out on their own at night.
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Sometimes you need an extreme comment to raise the profile of an issue and get people thinking about it. Folk would do well to think about the substantive issue (safety of women) rather than complain about a policy that is never going to happen.
I go out for a long walk every evening on my own, to wind down after work. My wife won't do that because she says she wouldn't feel safe. There are millions in the same situation.
THAT is the issue that we should be talking about.
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70% of murder victims are male.
Maybe we should all stay in after six. Just keep lockdown going forever.
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Must be 30 years since , running through station underpass toward stairs to Fremchgate, I got level with a woman who's I'd caught up and was passing on stairs and she sort of half lashed out ,half cringed with a look of absolute fear. I'd not given it a thought as was just lateand minding my own but it's stuck with me ever since
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70% of murder victims are male.
Maybe we should all stay in after six. Just keep lockdown going forever.
And what percentage of sexual assault and rape victims are male? What percentage of males get hassled and verbally abused on the street by women?
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Must be 30 years since , running through station underpass toward stairs to Fremchgate, I got level with a woman who's I'd caught up and was passing on stairs and she sort of half lashed out ,half cringed with a look of absolute fear. I'd not given it a thought as was just lateand minding my own but it's stuck with me ever since
It's awful in situations like that. You feel like saying something to reassure them but don't for fear of it making them more frightened.
What a world we live in.
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70% of murder victims are male.
Maybe we should all stay in after six. Just keep lockdown going forever.
Probably targeted circumstances with those. Like knife crime.
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Must be 30 years since , running through station underpass toward stairs to Fremchgate, I got level with a woman who's I'd caught up and was passing on stairs and she sort of half lashed out ,half cringed with a look of absolute fear. I'd not given it a thought as was just lateand minding my own but it's stuck with me ever since
It's awful in situations like that. You feel like saying something to reassure them but don't for fear of it making them more frightened.
What a world we live in.
Yep. Couldn't agree more.
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I see the b*st*rd copper that did that evil deed to that poor lass was taken to hospital yesterday with a head wound.
Good on him whoever did it to him. The c*nt's got more of that coming when he gets inside on his life sentence.
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Apparently he was alone when he sustained the head injury. CCTV camera footage of it, which I assume is true as it's been referred to the IOPC.
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Apparently he was alone when he sustained the head injury. CCTV camera footage of it, which I assume is true as it's been referred to the IOPC.
If that's true, what's the betting on him taking the coward's way out like Epstein did? (Or did he?)
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70% of murder victims are male.
Maybe we should all stay in after six. Just keep lockdown going forever.
Don't forget, if you include prison then the majority af rape victims are male too.
All she's doing is stoking the fire and creating a divide.
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I think and hope most on this forum have an understanding of what the issue is. It’s not about trying to paint all men as monsters or trying to argue that men aren’t subject to violent crimes. But it is about men recognising the fear and danger that all women are exposed to just going about our daily lives. It’s trying to get men to have that appreciation and to be active in reducing that fear. That’s through just been aware of how your presence may cause fear or pulling up others whose action is just not acceptable no matter how funny they may think it is.
I am a 60+ year old woman. The number of times in my adult life where at some point I have felt apprehension or fear or discomfort because of men’s actions is scary. I must add mostly innocent actions but still enough to cause negative emotions. I have spoken to many male friends about this. They have all been totally unaware of how it must feel. Some of you have already given examples of different scenarios........the list is very long.
Maybe it’s something I will raise with the club. Something more we can do to be at the forefront of community and supporter issues. Football clubs have a captive audience so maybe we can use that to really get the message across.
And maybe one day I can walk back to my car after a night match without forever looking over my shoulder, without having my car keys ready as a weapon, without carrying an alarm, without always walking down the middle of a road in fear of anyone jumping out from the shadows, without jumping in my car and immediately locking the door........and no I’m not actually a nervous or easily intimidated person......and yes, of course I could park in the car park or ask someone to walk with me......but why the hell should I!
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Police spending the evening assaulting women on Clapham common, who were holding a vigil for a woman murdered by a cop. Shameful.
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I wonder if there would have been such media reporting and outpouring of grief and fear from women if the young woman had been from Donny or Gateshead or Burnley?
No woman should have to be fearfull of walking alone at any time.
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Police spending the evening assaulting women on Clapham common, who were holding a vigil for a woman murdered by a cop. Shameful.
problem is they are holding a vigil but many are not social distancing ect. So by them being there they are potentially putting innocent peoples lives at risk, we’re nearly at the end of lockdown surly the best thing would have been to wait a few more weeks
Everything I've seen shows the vigil was safe and relatively distanced until the pigs showed up. And naturally they waited until it was dark as well to move in, so they could better intimidate their targets. It's a vigil for crying out loud, mostly made up of women, there's no call for kettling and antagonising them.
Raven, theres an element of truth to that. But at least something is finally happening, ideally we wouldn't need to wait for anyone to lose their lives at all for these conversations to start happening, but here we are.
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70% of murder victims are male.
Maybe we should all stay in after six. Just keep lockdown going forever.
Don't forget, if you include prison then the majority af rape victims are male too.
All she's doing is stoking the fire and creating a divide.
What sex would these rapist perpetrators be btw?
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Male police officers attack women attending a vigil for a women (allegedly) murdered by a male police officer.
And people on her blame the victims.
Welcome to Boris Johnson's facist Britain.
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Male police officers attack women attending a vigil for a women (allegedly) murdered by a male police officer.
And people on her blame the victims.
Welcome to Boris Johnson's facist Britain.
We only have to go back to 1984 to know that the Met like to steam in on unarmed demonstrators
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Wouldn’t expect anything different from the Met I’m afraid still doesn’t make it right though
Slightly different policing on view to that seen when BLM were just allowed to do what they want, from what I saw of last night it was peaceful and generally socially distanced/masks worn
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Was this really a vigil, in the sense of a quiet reflection on the memory of a murdered young woman or an opportunity for a gathering to protest about the treatment of women?
Weren't the Met enforcing what the Government have decided to be illegal ie mass gatherings?
If these people were not prepared to disperse peacefully how else were the police supposed to deal with it?
Should they have allowed a precedent to be set which would be to allow other forms of mass gatherings?
Were they not doing the job that Priti Useless and the rest of her cronies have instructed them to do and now she wants a report on the incident. The next thing will be her condemning the actions taken
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RR.
Have a look at how the police handled thousands of Rangers fans cavorting through Glasgow last week.
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I think they would have needed the army to disperse that lot, Totally wrong gathering as was last night
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In my opinion the police should just have left them be, but that does not mean the people there are not simply selfish, there is no need to congregate in your hundreds to pay respect to someone during a pandemic, someone has already lost there life needlessly and due to these people who were paying there respects others may also lose there life needlessly
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70% of murder victims are male.
Maybe we should all stay in after six. Just keep lockdown going forever.
And what percentage of sexual assault and rape victims are male? What percentage of males get hassled and verbally abused on the street by women?
You've missed my point.
Both suggestions are equally ridiculous. Expecting women to not walk the streets without feeling safe, and the suggestion of a curfew for men after 6pm.
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There is not the slightest possibility of there being a curfew on men. She was using that as a shock tactic to get people thinking and talking about the issue.
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Police spending the evening assaulting women on Clapham common, who were holding a vigil for a woman murdered by a cop. Shameful.
problem is they are holding a vigil but many are not social distancing ect. So by them being there they are potentially putting innocent peoples lives at risk, we’re nearly at the end of lockdown surly the best thing would have been to wait a few more weeks
Everything I've seen shows the vigil was safe and relatively distanced until the pigs showed up. And naturally they waited until it was dark as well to move in, so they could better intimidate their targets. It's a vigil for crying out loud, mostly made up of women, there's no call for kettling and antagonising them.
Raven, theres an element of truth to that. But at least something is finally happening, ideally we wouldn't need to wait for anyone to lose their lives at all for these conversations to start happening, but here we are.
You lost me as soon as you described the police as pigs.
I know quite a few policemen and my son-in-law is a Chief Ispector. To class all police as the same the police in general a disservice. I wonder who you will call if you get burgled?
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Me too, Idler. I too have family in the Police Force. I was going to post something very similar, but opted not to because usually, when I comment on vocabulary choices, it is dismissed as playing around with semantics.
I imagine imagine Macho’s response would be something like ‘can you point out where I explicitly said that all police officers are pigs?’
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My son-in -law is also ginger so gets unwanted comments abuse and comments just for this.
I was at school with Graham (Willie) Watson who went on to have two stints with the Rovers. He was always Ginner Watson at school as a description but no overtones. The world has gone mad.
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My son is a police officer too.
He says that they get loads of abuse every day just for doing their job.
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If the issue is with my lack of civility and not with the police assaulting women, trampling tributes left for a woman who was murdered by one of their own, that tells a story in and of itself. I'm tired of being civil with thugs in uniform. No, I'm sure it's not all cops. But it's too many. It's enough. And they'll always look after their own first. Far as I see it, the police as an institution tar whole groups of people with the same brush, so I have no problem doing the same to them.
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So you are sure not all cops are ‘pigs’ but you are going to tar them with the same brush anyway. I think I’m beginning to understand now.
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If the issue is with my lack of civility and not with the police assaulting women, trampling tributes left for a woman who was murdered by one of their own, that tells a story in and of itself. I'm tired of being civil with thugs in uniform. No, I'm sure it's not all cops. But it's too many. It's enough. And they'll always look after their own first. Far as I see it, the police as an institution tar whole groups of people with the same brush, so I have no problem doing the same to them.
I haven't as yet seen the footage so I can't comment on that action. I do know that at most events/protests attract a section of people more interested in having a go at the establishment or police than supporting the original cause.
This I have witnessed first hand, even at Rovers games.
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Idler, they were predominantly women with candles and flowers. It was a vigil. Some of them had some ACAB signs, but to be honest, the vigil was for a woman who was likely murdered by a cop, so some anti-cop sentiment was to be expected. It was still peaceful and would have passed. But a few hand-drawn signs and rude chants don't warrant police grappling and swinging punches at unarmed women.
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If the police had body cams on it will all come out.
I don’t condone strong arm tactics or violence by either side under any circumstances.
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I think I get it now! So, we can blame Boris for being too soft on social distancing, and then blame him for being too hard on social distancing!
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I don't think you get very much at all bb, at least anything much you can substantiate :)
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Idler, they were predominantly women with candles and flowers. It was a vigil. Some of them had some ACAB signs, but to be honest, the vigil was for a woman who was likely murdered by a cop, so some anti-cop sentiment was to be expected. It was still peaceful and would have passed. But a few hand-drawn signs and rude chants don't warrant police grappling and swinging punches at unarmed women.
It may have started as a vigil but by dark it had become a protest. They were asked to disperse they didn't, action was taken
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Idler, they were predominantly women with candles and flowers. It was a vigil. Some of them had some ACAB signs, but to be honest, the vigil was for a woman who was likely murdered by a cop, so some anti-cop sentiment was to be expected. It was still peaceful and would have passed. But a few hand-drawn signs and rude chants don't warrant police grappling and swinging punches at unarmed women.
I'm sick of hearing this "she was murdered by a cop" or "The Police killed her"
No she wasn't. He wasn't on duty.
She was a murdered by a bas**rd who happens to work for the Police Force.
Were Harold Shipman's victims murdered by the NHS?
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This week's events have shown there's a decent number of coppers who don't mind assaulting women when they're on duty as well.
I seem to remember there was a lot of outrage about Shipman's role as a doctor. There was an inquiry into it and some law changes regarding medications and oversight were pushed through. While it isn't a response to this week's events, the law being pushed through this week gives the police even more Draconian powers to crush peaceful protests. An interesting comparison.
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It should also be remembered that the peaceful protest was also an illegal gathering and against COVID prevention rules.
Why didn’t the people who had gone to pay their respects to the murder victim just go home when they had done so instead of hanging around for such a long time.
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It should also be remembered that the peaceful protest was also an illegal gathering and against COVID prevention rules.
Why didn’t the people who had gone to pay their respects to the murder victim just go home when they had done so instead of hanging around for such a long time.
Because people are dick heads who like to cause trouble and blame everyone else for their actions.
Those there with the ACAB banners were clearly looking for trouble.
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Was listening to the radio earlier, a lady called in with the point that she knows it isn't all men who do this kind of thing, but the problem is women don't know which men are capable, so as a result they suspect ALL men when on their own, walking down the street etc.
The presenter then asked her does she suspect every Muslim is a terrorist due to the actions of a small minority.
She came back with "no - because that is racially profiling".
Food for thought.
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It should also be remembered that the peaceful protest was also an illegal gathering and against COVID prevention rules.
Why didn’t the people who had gone to pay their respects to the murder victim just go home when they had done so instead of hanging around for such a long time.
Do you know that they didn't hound or that they did and were replaced by others arriving later?
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From the Guardian
''Priti Patel, the home secretary, starts by confirming that she has asked HM Inspectorate of Constabulary to conduct a review of the policing of the vigil at Clapham Common.
She says what happened to Sarah reminded women of the precautions they take every day to protect themselves. Patel says she includes herself in this''
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It should also be remembered that the peaceful protest was also an illegal gathering and against COVID prevention rules.
Why didn’t the people who had gone to pay their respects to the murder victim just go home when they had done so instead of hanging around for such a long time.
Do you know that they didn't hound or that they did and were replaced by others arriving later?
There should not have been a gathering of people, it was illegal, hence the police having to get involved. Those police officers in attendance could have been patrolling the streets protecting innocent people instead.
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I want to know who got rid of Boris's water Cannons, we have never had more reason for them than in the last two years.
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It should also be remembered that the peaceful protest was also an illegal gathering and against COVID prevention rules.
Why didn’t the people who had gone to pay their respects to the murder victim just go home when they had done so instead of hanging around for such a long time.
Do you know that they didn't hound or that they did and were replaced by others arriving later?
I see you don’t have a view on the illegal gathering aspect of this.
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It should also be remembered that the peaceful protest was also an illegal gathering and against COVID prevention rules.
Why didn’t the people who had gone to pay their respects to the murder victim just go home when they had done so instead of hanging around for such a long time.
Do you know that they didn't hound or that they did and were replaced by others arriving later?
There should not have been a gathering of people, it was illegal, hence the police having to get involved. Those police officers in attendance could have been patrolling the streets protecting innocent people instead.
A judge on Thursday said a gathering on Clapham Common would not be illegal. Under what law do you say it was and with what legal qualification are you stating this?
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I've got no legal qualifications Wilts, Have you?
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It should also be remembered that the peaceful protest was also an illegal gathering and against COVID prevention rules.
Why didn’t the people who had gone to pay their respects to the murder victim just go home when they had done so instead of hanging around for such a long time.
Do you know that they didn't hound or that they did and were replaced by others arriving later?
There should not have been a gathering of people, it was illegal, hence the police having to get involved. Those police officers in attendance could have been patrolling the streets protecting innocent people instead.
A judge on Thursday said a gathering on Clapham Common would not be illegal. Under what law do you say it was and with what legal qualification are you stating this?
According to the Evening Standard, Justice Holgate said that it would be inappropriate for him to intervene in a row between the Police and the vigil organisers.
He said that an emergency court hearing had helped to clarify the laws around policing of protests during the pandemic.
The judge was also at pains to point out that he had only been asked to consider an declaration on the law rather than grant an injunction on the police or rule on the legality of the vigil.
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I suggest people have a listen to the ex-Chief Constable of Notts on R4 this evening who said that in light of the High Court ruling, it was beholden on the Met to respond proportionately to the vigil and that the Met got it badly wrong with a wholly over the top response.
I'm amazed we are even discussing this to be honest.
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Most people seem to think they did go over the top , but most people also seem to think they shouldn’t have been there in the 1st place and then it would never have happened
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Police were happy for this illegal gathering to go ahead when Kate Middleton rocked up for a photo op. Or did it suddenly become illegal once she left?
And whether it was legal or not, the issue is the proportionality of the response. The protest was entirely peaceful and would have dispersed peacefully had the filth not used it as an opportunity to intimidate and beat up women. If need be, catch people on CCTV and issue fines. Don't steam in swinging punches because one of the women had an ACAB sign that hurt your feelings.
Shocking how many people seem to want to live in a fascist authoritarian state tbh. As my Jewish nana used to say, times like this you know who's attic you'd be safe in.
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It seemed peaceful yes from what I have seen but no way were they social distancing, in which case they should not be there should they? If one of the people there passed the virus onto a loved one of yours I’m sure you will change your views
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So send the police in to kettle them closer together and rile them up. AND spark an additional 2 days of protests as well, that wouldn't have happened had the police decided not to beat up unarmed women. Much safer!
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No as I’ve said on a previous post the police should just have left them to it, but the police would not have been there had they not been there also!
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A Met probationary constable involved in the Sarah Everard search has been referred to the police watchdog over an "inappropriate graphic" shared with colleagues on social media
https://twitter.com/Fhamiltontimes/status/1371530255786258434
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I wonder how many fatalities there will be as a result of this peaceful gathering?
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I wonder how many fatalities there will be as a result of this peaceful gathering?
that’s my issue is attending that vigil worth more than someone else’s life
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No as I’ve said on a previous post the police should just have left them to it, but the police would not have been there had they not been there also!
Remind me again - why were those women there in the first place?
And why did several other vigils on the same day, some of which (including Bristol) also carrying on into the evening, pass off with no trouble whatsover?
Why did this particular police force decide to do what they did?
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A Met probationary constable involved in the Sarah Everard search has been referred to the police watchdog over an "inappropriate graphic" shared with colleagues on social media
https://twitter.com/Fhamiltontimes/status/1371530255786258434
Disgraceful.
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No as I’ve said on a previous post the police should just have left them to it, but the police would not have been there had they not been there also!
Remind me again - why were those women there in the first place?
And why did several other vigils on the same day, some of which (including Bristol) also carrying on into the evening, pass off with no trouble whatsover?
Why did this particular police force decide to do what they did?
I can’t answer about the others as I have seen no pictures of them, the reason they were there? The ones I saw interviewed today said they had to be there to stand with other women, none of them new the poor woman who was murdered but they still had to be there, is that a good enough reason to put other peoples lives at risk?
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Fear conquers all, whether its Covid, racism and now this. .
Another case of lockdown, unless it something I feel strongly enough about it, then it doesn't matter.
The digital world whipping up another frenzy and responsible for society as we know it is imploding... and I fear for the future of our kids.
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I wonder how many fatalities there will be as a result of this peaceful gathering?
I wonder how many people have died because the met police haven't done their job propoerly over the years, too bust on social media?
Six more police officers investigated over photos of murdered sisters
Two Met colleagues arrested earlier for allegedly taking and sharing inappropriate images
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/aug/25/six-more-police-officers-investigated-over-photos-of-murdered-victims
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And what they have done is terrible Sydney I don’t think anyone will disagree does that make it right to put other peoples lives at risk? There has been a few nurses who have killed patients does that make all nurses bad people?
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DId I say that bp, please stop trying to muddy the waters
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Just his way of posting.
Throw in a controversial comment to see if anyone starts an argument with him.
Must be very lonely.
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just a reminder of another who had respect for women ................
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9ga9lHtcXM
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See there is another vigil today with hundreds there, many are holding placards seems more like a protest than a vigil
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What can I get you two plain clothes police, another orange juice and a soda water?
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VIGIL - the act of keeping awake at times when sleep is customary also : a period of wakefulness. 2 : an event or a period of time when a person or group stays in a place and quietly waits, prays, etc., especially at night a candlelight vigil kept vigil at her bedside
Why do people keep calling these protests a vigil?
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Because we have to be very selective with words we use so as not to cause an issue that directs the argument off in another direction.
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Hey sarge ....... don't look now but I just saw that guy over there getting a drink for the woman standing near the bar.
Pretend you're taking a selfie of us and get them in the background, act natural like ..............
Another johnson brainfart?
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Vigil
a period of keeping awake during the time usually spent asleep, especially to keep watch or pray.
"my birdwatching vigils lasted for hours"
a stationary, peaceful demonstration in support of a particular cause, typically without speeches.
"the group held a candlelight vigil outside the jail"
2.
(in the Christian Church) the eve of a festival or holy day as an occasion of religious observance.
nocturnal devotions.
Vigils can also be a form of protest. Especially when the whole topic of discussion is women wanting to reclaim the streets after dark, only to be subject to state violence.
Spin it any way you want, it doesn't matter what you call it - it was entirely peaceful and the only issues occurred when the thugs in uniform decided to steam in swinging punches at women.
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Spin it any way you want, it doesn't matter what you call it - it was entirely peaceful and the only issues occurred when the thugs in uniform decided to steam in swinging punches at women.
You were there? You actually saw this?
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I wasn't there, but I know someone who was. And between her word, the word of countless others sharing experiences of the police's disgusting behaviour not just at the vigil but walking away from it too, and the footage I've seen of the police swinging punches at women who were just standing or sitting down, pretty sure that I'm not too far wrong.
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Did you see these swinging punches connect, Macho?
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Stop making excuses for poorly trained and controlled police belton if you took a swing at them whether it connected or not it's threateninig behaviour.
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I think you’ve got up a bit too early, Sydney.
I’m just after clarification of what Macho saw the ‘Pigs’ doing.
I’m not suggesting takin swings and missing is okay - I’m just wondering, if they didn’t connect their swinging punches, how they missed hitting the women who were sitting down and standing still.
If they did swing punches at these (literally) sitting targets, then that is a disgrace. I just haven’t seen what Macho has.
Anyway, you’ve got more important things to worry about. Like what ‘highbrow’ means.
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if you don't have an answer for my comment you can just say belton
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Have you seen it, Sydney? Can you pop a link on here?
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still not answer then?
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pretend for a moment you're back in school, someone makes a comment and the other person answers or when asked they say 'I don't know' or similar.
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I’ve answered you clearly.
Please explain where you think I haven’t.
Then maybe answer my question. Or don’t, as usual when you realise you have made another monumental error.
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Stop making excuses for poorly trained and controlled police belton if you took a swing at them whether it connected or not it's threateninig behaviour.
this was my comment to yours, please rer-ead all the comments since to see if you made an answer that addressed my concern.
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Well, I found it a bit difficult to work out where one of your points ended and the other one started, but, reading between the lack of punctuation, I believe I replied in full in the very next post.
I know you asked me to imagine I was back at school, but did you ever go?
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it's quite simple belto just address my comment above then we could possibly progress but if you want to discuss semantics I'll can ask bb to join us
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Okay
1. Macho says he has seen footage of Police (or Pigs, as he likes them to be known collectively) swinging punches at women who were stanting still and sitting down.
2. I ask if any of these ‘swings’ connected.
3. You wrongly assumed I meant it was okay to swing and miss, and said it was threatening behaviour.
4. I replied by saying it wasn’t okay for police to take swings and added it would be disgraceful if they had.
5. You started talking gibberish.
I was asking Macho as I hadn’t seen this damning evidence.
Edit: semantics! Try and have a thought for yourself, Sydney. Thinking is so important.
Billy won’t always be here to use his big words.
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Okay
1. Macho says he has seen footage of Police (or Pigs, as he likes them to be known collectively) swinging punches at women who were stanting still and sitting down.
2. I ask if any of these ‘swings’ connected.
3. You wrongly assumed I meant it was okay to swing and miss, and said it was threatening behaviour.
4. I replied by saying it wasn’t okay for police to take swings and added it would be disgraceful if they had.
5. You started talking gibberish.
I was asking Macho as I hadn’t seen this damning evidence.
As we are down to semantics ......................
points 1 & 2 you both agree that swings were made?
point 3 incorrect assumtion.
4 whatever
5 you don't want to discuss the point I made ever so you start diversions and wind ups
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I haven’t seen the f**king footage! How can I agree that punches were swung!
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go and play you silly games with someone that gives a shit
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I’ll tell you what Sydney. You rewrite any comments or questions so they make sense, and I might have another go.
If it’s the bit that includes ‘making excuses’, then I have made it crystal clear that I am not.
But, as I said, if that’s not what you are looking for, then you’ll have to be clearer.
By clearer, I mean understandable.
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I’ll tell you what Sydney. You rewrite any comments or questions so they make sense, and I might have another go.
If it’s the bit that includes ‘making excuses’, then I have made it crystal clear that I am not.
But, as I said, if that’s not what you are looking for, then you’ll have to be clearer.
By clearer, I mean understandable.
Belton, I think the last part of your post is what Sydney is going to have difficulty with.
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From someone with 20000 post but can't reply in the correct place that's really something hound
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LoL.
You have a problem writing in the right place despite knowing that I leave a gap between the post I quote on and writing my response and then blame it on me.
You are so funny.
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I suppose you could go on the football forum and have a cry :)
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Not when you make me laugh so much on here.
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Not when you make me laugh so much on here.
:)
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Not when you make me laugh so much on here.
some nice people on this forum at times hound don’t know why you bother
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If you choose to step outside the law, don't cry when you face consequences. Under current legislation (not saying I agree with as I don't) the gathering was illegal. They knew it, they went ahead, stop whinging
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Maybe women have had enough being treated as second class citizens in their own country and being abused, raped and killed by men, just sayin'
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Maybe women have had enough being treated as second class citizens in their own country and being abused, raped and killed by men, just sayin'
I dont doubt it, my opinion stays the same. Break the law, suffer the consequences
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It took a long time for men to get full emancipation if men stood by women and gave them equal rights and protections maybe they wouldn't feel their only recourse is to try to be heard and break the law to do it.
You are now benefitting from those that lost suffered and lost their lives in the past to get the vote it's time more men accepted responsibility and help get wonem those same benefits.
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BBC
''PMQs: Nichols and Johnson on violence towards women
PMQs: Nichols and Johnson on violence towards women
Close
The prime minister was asked how women were “meant to get justice” when a rape review remained unpublished two years after it was promised.
Labour’s Charlotte Nichols highlighted how, as a MP, she could use Parliamentary privilege to “name the men who have hurt me”.
Boris Johnson said the “fundamental issue” was to address casual sexism and “apathy that fails to address the concerns of women”.''
Johnson is right for once ....................... so why is the report by his government 'sitting on a 'shelf' with other reports he doesn't like reading.
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''Priti Patel wanted police to stop people gathering at Sarah Everard vigil''
''Exclusive: some police chiefs feel ‘hung out to dry’ as memo reveals home secretary’s enforcement call''
What a piece of work Patel is, urges police to act then pulls the rug out when it goes sour. Maybe it's time the bar was raised for entry into the police force too.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/mar/19/priti-patel-wanted-police-stop-people-gathering-sarah-everard-vigil
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If you choose to step outside the law, don't cry when you face consequences. Under current legislation (not saying I agree with as I don't) the gathering was illegal. They knew it, they went ahead, stop whinging
Kate Middleton, the Duchess of Cambridge was in attendence - and not wearing a mask. Are you saying our future Queen broke the law? If so what punishment should she receive?
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10 years in jail if you attack a statue.
£500 fine, a night time curfew and you get to keep your job if you are a policeman and attack a lone woman you don't know in the street:
https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1372964818542542850
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If you choose to step outside the law, don't cry when you face consequences. Under current legislation (not saying I agree with as I don't) the gathering was illegal. They knew it, they went ahead, stop whinging
Kate Middleton, the Duchess of Cambridge was in attendence - and not wearing a mask. Are you saying our future Queen broke the law? If so what punishment should she receive?
At what part of the "vigil" did she attend? The only picture of her I saw she was thete in daylight. How many others were there at that time? Was it peacefull? Not against the law to not wear a mask in the open air. I doubt very much any of the public were allowed within 10m of her never mind 2. Perhaps she interpreted the meaning of vigil correctly
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10 years in jail if you attack a statue.
£500 fine, a night time curfew and you get to keep your job if you are a policeman and attack a lone woman you don't know in the street:
https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1372964818542542850
I’m not sure he will keep his job wilts.
He will probably lose his job when the case is heard.
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Here's some fotage of the incident
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/mar/19/west-midlands-police-officer-attacked-woman-pc-oliver-banfield
police reluctant to investigate their own yet again.
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Keep up Sydney, wilts has already posted a link with the footage.
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You keep adding zero to the conversation hound ............... it still adds up to zero no matter how often you do it
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You keep adding zero to the conversation hound ............... it still adds up to zero no matter how often you do it
A bit like your question to me a little earlier then.
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Here's some fotage of the incident
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/mar/19/west-midlands-police-officer-attacked-woman-pc-oliver-banfield
police reluctant to investigate their own yet again.
while I think the guy should go to jail, if you send people to jail for doing that you would need to build 50 more prisons, unfortunately there is not the space to do that
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We can't have people in the police force that we can't trust bp. There needs to be a stricter criteria for selection if coppers don't know they can't share crime scene data or images, inappropriate images nor break the law. Whey should not be allowed to belong to private social media groups nor use encrypted messaging, if they can't deal with that maybe they're in the wrong job.
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If you choose to step outside the law, don't cry when you face consequences. Under current legislation (not saying I agree with as I don't) the gathering was illegal. They knew it, they went ahead, stop whinging
Kate Middleton, the Duchess of Cambridge was in attendence - and not wearing a mask. Are you saying our future Queen broke the law? If so what punishment should she receive?
I'm not a judge, but if she attended a gathering which is against the law then yes, she should face whatever consequences others face
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We can't have people in the police force that we can't trust bp. There needs to be a stricter criteria for selection if coppers don't know they can't share crime scene data or images, inappropriate images nor break the law. Whey should not be allowed to belong to private social media groups nor use encrypted messaging, if they can't deal with that maybe they're in the wrong job.
100 percent agree Sydney but what ever job your always going to get horrible people that have no criminal record and until they commit a crime have a clean record
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We can't have people in the police force that we can't trust bp. There needs to be a stricter criteria for selection if coppers don't know they can't share crime scene data or images, inappropriate images nor break the law. Whey should not be allowed to belong to private social media groups nor use encrypted messaging, if they can't deal with that maybe they're in the wrong job.
100 percent agree Sydney but what ever job your always going to get horrible people that have no criminal record and until they commit a crime have a clean record
So every policeman is a potential criminal that you can't trust? Have a nice day.
In the Channel 4 news story they said a major contributor to the recent spate of incidents is a less rigerous vetting process for current recruits, under Johnson's push to recruit the 20000 new officers he promised to replace the experienced ones cut under the Tories.
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10 years in jail if you attack a statue.
£500 fine, a night time curfew and you get to keep your job if you are a policeman and attack a lone woman you don't know in the street:
https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1372964818542542850
I’m not sure he will keep his job wilts.
He will probably lose his job when the case is heard.
This happened in July last year, 8 months ago. As of today this this 'bloke' is still employed and paid by the public to be a serving police officer.
Its not that they didn't sack him straight away - if you watch the C4 news story they initially refused to investigate him! It's not just him that should go.
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We can't have people in the police force that we can't trust bp. There needs to be a stricter criteria for selection if coppers don't know they can't share crime scene data or images, inappropriate images nor break the law. Whey should not be allowed to belong to private social media groups nor use encrypted messaging, if they can't deal with that maybe they're in the wrong job.
100 percent agree Sydney but what ever job your always going to get horrible people that have no criminal record and until they commit a crime have a clean record
So every policeman is a potential criminal that you can't trust? Have a nice day.
In the Channel 4 news story they said a major contributor to the recent spate of incidents is a less rigerous vetting process for current recruits, under Johnson's push to recruit the 20000 new officers he promised to replace the experienced ones cut under the Tories.
https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jul/24/alarming-stats-show-309-police-officers-and-pcsos-arrested-for-serious-crimes this was before Johnson was in power,I can’t find any more up to date figures
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You can’t blame the recruitment process for bad eggs getting through. You can put systems in place to prevent that happening as much as possible, but it can never be perfect.
The recruitment process for the police is very rigorous.
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Maybe it isn’t as strict in Australia Belton.
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You can’t blame the recruitment process for bad eggs getting through. You can put systems in place to prevent that happening as much as possible, but it can never be perfect.
The recruitment process for the police is very rigorous.
Not rigorous enough that they employ over 200 convicted criminals
https://news.sky.com/story/assault-burglary-and-animal-cruelty-police-officers-convicted-of-crimes-working-for-uk-forces-12024264
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Maybe it isn’t as strict in Australia Belton.
Constant ad hominems, yet never a word of reproach. How odd.
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Maybe it isn’t as strict in Australia Belton.
Constant ad hominems, yet never a word of reproach. How odd.
Someone of intelligence might see that I hadn’t made a statement of fact.
I thought you were better than that bst..
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Always muddying the waters aye hound, try not to take things personally unless of course you want things to be personal .................. never commited enough to state your position.
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You can’t blame the recruitment process for bad eggs getting through. You can put systems in place to prevent that happening as much as possible, but it can never be perfect.
The recruitment process for the police is very rigorous.
Not rigorous enough that they employ over 200 convicted criminals
https://news.sky.com/story/assault-burglary-and-animal-cruelty-police-officers-convicted-of-crimes-working-for-uk-forces-12024264
''Police officers hold office and are not employees.[5] Each officer is an independent legal official and not an "agent of the police force, police authority or government".[6] This allows the police their unique status and notionally provides the citizens of the UK a protection from any government that might wish unlawfully to use the police as an instrument against them''
Maybe this has to change because although it may protect the police from unlawful behaviour from the government it sure doesn't stop unlawful behaviour perpetrated on the public from the police not in the past and clearly not now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_Federation_of_England_and_Wales#:~:text=The%20Police%20Federation%20of%20England%20and%20Wales%20was%20set%20up,strikes%20in%201918%20and%201919.&text=However%2C%20unlike%20a%20union%2C%20the,powers%20to%20call%20a%20strike.
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Always muddying the waters aye hound, try not to take things personally unless of course you want things to be personal .................. never commited enough to state your position.
You never pick up on it when I do state my position Sydney, in your hurry to have a go at me.
Like on the Coronavirus thread last night for example.
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try and stick to the topic in hand hound
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Filo, as your link states, a conviction doesn’t (and absolutely shouldn’t, IMO) result in automatic rejection. This has been the case since long before Johnson was there to blame.
Also, the cases in the link refer mainly to convictions whilst serving, with no detail. This has nothing to do with recruitment.
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try and stick to the topic in hand hound
You changed the topic though when you questioned what I posted about.
Perhaps you should take your own advice.
Cant you sleep.
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Always muddying the waters aye hound, try not to take things personally unless of course you want things to be personal .................. never commited enough to state your position.
You never pick up on it when I do state my position Sydney, in your hurry to have a go at me.
Like on the Coronavirus thread last night for example.
You never picked up on this correction to one of your accusations yesterday in a different thread
https://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=280483.msg1038398#msg1038398
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Maybe it isn’t as strict in Australia Belton.
Like this lame attempt of a wind up hound?
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Always muddying the waters aye hound, try not to take things personally unless of course you want things to be personal .................. never commited enough to state your position.
You never pick up on it when I do state my position Sydney, in your hurry to have a go at me.
Like on the Coronavirus thread last night for example.
You never picked up on this correction to one of your accusations yesterday in a different thread
https://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=280483.msg1038398#msg1038398
Be careful Filo, you might be accused by Sydney of not sticking to the topic.
Mind, Sydney won’t have a go at someone on his team.
However, I didn’t read it until you highlighted it just now but I don’t see where BST’s post requested a response.
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Maybe it isn’t as strict in Australia Belton.
Like this lame attempt of a wind up hound?
Of course you never post stuff to get a reaction from other posters do you.
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only from you hound :)
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Always muddying the waters aye hound, try not to take things personally unless of course you want things to be personal .................. never commited enough to state your position.
You never pick up on it when I do state my position Sydney, in your hurry to have a go at me.
Like on the Coronavirus thread last night for example.
You never picked up on this correction to one of your accusations yesterday in a different thread
https://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=280483.msg1038398#msg1038398
Be careful Filo, you might be accused by Sydney of not sticking to the topic.
Mind, Sydney won’t have a go at someone on his team.
However, I didn’t read it until you highlighted it just now but I don’t see where BST’s post requested a response.
In other words you were wrong, but declined to respond in the hope it’s forgotten, you respond, without request to most things, not sure why you feel the need for a request on that post
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Always muddying the waters aye hound, try not to take things personally unless of course you want things to be personal .................. never commited enough to state your position.
You never pick up on it when I do state my position Sydney, in your hurry to have a go at me.
Like on the Coronavirus thread last night for example.
You never picked up on this correction to one of your accusations yesterday in a different thread
https://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=280483.msg1038398#msg1038398
Be careful Filo, you might be accused by Sydney of not sticking to the topic.
Mind, Sydney won’t have a go at someone on his team.
However, I didn’t read it until you highlighted it just now but I don’t see where BST’s post requested a response.
In other words you were wrong, but declined to respond in the hope it’s forgotten, you respond, without request to most things, not sure why you feel the need for a request on that post
I just said I hadn’t seen it until you highlighted the post.
Maybe you didn’t see that.
I couldn’t give a monkeys about whether it is forgotten by the way.
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it's quite disgraceful that police forces do not on request gather and release statistics for how many criminals work in their particular force. For whatever reason crimals work in the police force the public should be entitled to know whether they were criminals before they started or became criminals in the force and why they still work there.
It probably won't happen in this parliamentary term in the UK but a law similar to this would help.
David Shoebridge a lawyer and MP got a law passed in NSW that with a majority vote in parliament the government of the day has to produce documents as requested by an MP and this law has been used sucessfully several times, once of which is relevant to this conversation as to how useful it can/could be.
''NSW police spent $24m on legal settlements, including for battery and false imprisonment
Police defended and settled almost 300 civil claims against officers during the last financial year''
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/sep/08/nsw-police-spent-24m-on-legal-settlements-including-for-battery-and-false-imprisonment
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Sydney what benefit could there be to the public knowing that a police officer has a conviction?
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I thought it would be obvious belton but the public should have confidence in those that work in the force and have confidence that if they have been convicted of a serious offence which it appears too many have then the public can know why a decision was made to allow them to stay in.
Those with a criminal record that is not on the public record may be subject to blackmail in the course of their duties or it may affect how they deal with a particular matter.
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Officers without a criminal record might also be subject to blackmail so I’m not sure how you would differentiate between those two scenarios.
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And the world may be flat hound but we know it's not, or some of us do
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And the world may be flat hound but we know it's not, or some of us do
The riddler is at it again.
I was adding a point to your post, just for balance of course.
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Officers without a criminal record might also be subject to blackmail so I’m not sure how you would differentiate between those two scenarios.
This is nonsense hound
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So it would be for an individual member of the public to decide if a police officer’s conviction is serious or not?
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If that's what you think belton
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Officers without a criminal record might also be subject to blackmail so I’m not sure how you would differentiate between those two scenarios.
This is nonsense hound
Why is it nonsense when it is in response to the post of yours that preceded it.
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explain why then it doesn't apply to eveyone on the planet
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explain why then it doesn't apply to eveyone on the planet
Of course it could which is why I made the point that police officers without a conviction might also be subject to a blackmail situation.
You appeared to be saying that only officers with a conviction might be subject to blackmail.
Hope that has simplified it for you.
Anyway, I won’t be replying to you for a couple of hours as I am watching the game now.
Something must be keeping you awake.
Is there a police car outside the house.
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Sydney, I want you to tell me what you think. You have made a statement that I’m struggling to quite understand so I asked you a question to clarify your opinion. I know you think the answer is simple and needs no explanation, but believe me, your responses are rarely simple to decipher.
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I thought it would be obvious belton but the public should have confidence in those that work in the force and have confidence that if they have been convicted of a serious offence which it appears too many have then the public can know why a decision was made to allow them to stay in.
Those with a criminal record that is not on the public record may be subject to blackmail in the course of their duties or it may affect how they deal with a particular matter.
This is what I think belton
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explain why then it doesn't apply to eveyone on the planet
Grow up hound
Of course it could which is why I made the point that police officers without a conviction might also be subject to a blackmail situation.
You appeared to be saying that only officers with a conviction might be subject to blackmail.
Hope that has simplified it for you.
Anyway, I won’t be replying to you for a couple of hours as I am watching the game now.
Something must be keeping you awake.
Is there a police car outside the house.
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I see the chuckle brothers are at it again
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I see the chuckle brothers are at it again
Yep, you and Sydney are a natural pairing.
Keep up the good work.
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Filo. I may be taking liberties, but I’m assuming your really funny ‘Chuckle Brother’s’ quip was partly aimed at me. Yet all I’ve done is respond to your post and Sydney’s. All, especially yours, quite respectfully (though I do admit to lowering myself to a bit of sarcasm when it comes to responding to Sydney’s post’s. He’s just got one of those writing styles that make you want to scream).
If you weren’t referring to me, then I apologise.
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belton it looks as though you and your two star deputy are quite happy with a situation that we have a number of criminals in the police and many forces don't want the public to know how many and none of us know who has made a decision that they can stay and why.
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More gibberish.
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it the cap fits hound
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Only you know your size.
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so try and stop avoiding the question are you happy that their are serious criminals in and running some of the police in the UK?
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You’ve just nailed exactly what is wrong with why debate on here is nigh on impossible, Sydney. I’ve asked you to elaborate on your concerns about police with convictions. You take that as me having no problem with the police taking on criminals.
At least I think that is the gist of what you are trying to say. Is the punctuation free rant just for comedic effect now?
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Because I put up plenty of information and answered your question twice which would show any reasonable person where I stand on the matter whereas you yourself have asked more questions of me without stating your position. What is it?
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so try and stop avoiding the question are you happy that their are serious criminals in and running some of the police in the UK?
I haven’t said but in post 166 you have decided what I think.
How can I argue with the all knowing Sydney.
However, once again you are making stuff up.
You are asking me to answer something that you say you have already asked.
I don’t see a post on here in which you did ask me what I thought about the police employing people who had convictions.
Anyway, I have had a message from another vsc poster asking me why I bother to respond to you when you spout so much stuff that is intended to wind me up.
With that in mind I really shouldn’t let myself be sucked in by your WUM like posts so I am going to try to avoid responding to you and your cohort.
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maybe because you and belton appear to be taking umbridge at the fact I don't like criminals in and running the police and spend your time asking me question all the time avoiding declaring what you think, it sounds like you are defending them is all hound ............. is that unreasonable?
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For what it’s worth, Sydney. I have faith in the vetting system.
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that tells me nothing other than you have faith in the vetting system, I assume for hiring, what about the system that allows criminlals to stay in the job even run the force?
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So I think we're done here with this part of the topic as neither belton nor hound has declared or defended their position around having criminals within and running the police force, despite taking umbridge at someone who does.
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I’ve also made it clear, Sydney, that having a criminal record should not automatically mean rejection. Which in turn means that I think it is okay for some officers to have criminal records. As it should be for teachers, doctors or any other career.
And no I don’t think the public have a right to know who has a record and for what for, because that could very easily compromise their duties. I am quite sure there are fantastic police officers with convictions, as there are poor officers without.
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20 out of 45 forces not releasing data we, well I can assume and I will that they know it will reflect bab=dly on them. Until we know how mant and why regarding criminals in the force there is little chance that we can do anything about it. We know for a fact that officers convicted of assaulting members of the public can keep their jobs ............. how far does this go sexual assault, manslaughter? we just don't know. What is your limit belton where would you draw the line surrounding drumming these criminal out of the force?
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And until we have this information it casts a slur on the whole force and unfortunately a lot of genuine hard working coppers are ''tarred'' with the same brush.
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And until we have this information it casts a slur on the whole force and unfortunately a lot of genuine hard working coppers are ''tarred'' with the same brush.
Only by people like you.
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So tell me how it doesn't belton?
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boo
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Because people who aren’t like you believe in the recruitment and vetting process.
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''people kile you'' pathetic belton no answers to important questions so distract and wind up?
What wrong with the public knowing about police criminal history they know about averyone elses?
What level of crime do you condone and how many times can they do it?
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Have you been on the Fosters for breakfast, Sydney? You’re even more incoherent than usual.
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The most recent case of Sarah Everard with a police officer charged with her kidnap and murder, another removed from the case for sharing inappropriate images on social media and an enquiry into the Met to see whether an indecent exposure incident by the murder suspect was properly investigated.
Nothing to see here apparently?
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As there was a lot of uproar of the police actions during the vigil/protest and probably quite rightly so, it has to be said how awful the thugs male and female ones acted yesterday leaving several police injured 2 seriously
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As there was a lot of uproar of the police actions during the vigil/protest and probably quite rightly so, it has to be said how awful the thugs male and female ones acted yesterday leaving several police injured 2 seriously
Agreed. Appalling and disgraceful behaviour by a number of people/thugs and I hope they arrest and charge every one.
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Yep, disgraceful behaviour and yet not many on on here seem to be bothered.
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Eyewitnesses seem to agree it was provoked by a disproportionate response from the police again. But this time they weren't picking on grieving women, and these people were happy to respond disproportionately themselves. Not justified but entirely predictable. Of course these reports may well turn out to be protestors covering for themselves, I would be interested to see the outcomes of an independent investigation.
Suspect we'll see more of this once the anti protest bill passes. When you try to crush peaceful protest there's only one place that leads.
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It's how dictators strengthen their grip on power, stack parliament and the courts with stooges and remove the right to protest gradually strangling off ways for the populace to have a meaningful say.
Added: they also put hurdles in the way of people ligitimate right to vote, ID cards required at polling stations etc.
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Well, at least one Tory has a solution to the events in Bristol....
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/tory-candidate-calls-for-bristol-to-be-bombed-following-kill-the-bill-protests-259931/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=ukineu&fbclid=IwAR1-SEnBfvVA3yYd4xAe1T2JR377XUi7m5CeHdeSKu18eBAfhSu1B4KJyzk
NOT!
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Well, at least one Tory has a solution to the events in Bristol....
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/tory-candidate-calls-for-bristol-to-be-bombed-following-kill-the-bill-protests-259931/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=ukineu&fbclid=IwAR1-SEnBfvVA3yYd4xAe1T2JR377XUi7m5CeHdeSKu18eBAfhSu1B4KJyzk
NOT!
Looks like you’re telling yourself off there, Not.
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It's how dictators strengthen their grip on power, stack parliament and the courts with stooges and remove the right to protest gradually strangling off ways for the populace to have a meaningful say.
Added: they also put hurdles in the way of people ligitimate right to vote, ID cards required at polling stations etc.
Absolutely....
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/opinion/britains-slide-into-authoritarianism-how-the-tories-are-building-a-one-party-state-259854/
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It's how dictators strengthen their grip on power, stack parliament and the courts with stooges and remove the right to protest gradually strangling off ways for the populace to have a meaningful say.
Added: they also put hurdles in the way of people ligitimate right to vote, ID cards required at polling stations etc.
Absolutely....
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/opinion/britains-slide-into-authoritarianism-how-the-tories-are-building-a-one-party-state-259854/
Interesting article NNK.
It is a bit like Man City running away with the PL because the opposition isn’t up to much.
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+0
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The Shewsbury 24 from the BBC ............ this is what happens when governments and the police are allowed to work in secrecy.
''The group of trade unionists, who became known as the Shrewsbury 24, had run a long campaign arguing that they had been persecuted by the establishment to deter workers from taking action to improve their pay and working conditions.
After the ruling, Tomlinson, who had been sentenced to two years in jail for conspiracy to intimidate and affray, said: “Whilst it is only right that these convictions are overturned – it is a sorry day for British justice. The reality is we should never have been standing in the dock.
“We were brought to trial at the apparent behest of the building industry bosses, the Conservative government, and ably supported by the secret state. This was a political trial not just of me, and the Shrewsbury pickets – but was a trial of the trade union movement.”''
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/mar/23/shrewsbury-24-court-of-appeal-overturns-1970s-picketing-convictions
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The Shewsbury 24 from the BBC ............ this is what happens when governments and the police are allowed to work in secrecy.
''The group of trade unionists, who became known as the Shrewsbury 24, had run a long campaign arguing that they had been persecuted by the establishment to deter workers from taking action to improve their pay and working conditions.
After the ruling, Tomlinson, who had been sentenced to two years in jail for conspiracy to intimidate and affray, said: “Whilst it is only right that these convictions are overturned – it is a sorry day for British justice. The reality is we should never have been standing in the dock.
“We were brought to trial at the apparent behest of the building industry bosses, the Conservative government, and ably supported by the secret state. This was a political trial not just of me, and the Shrewsbury pickets – but was a trial of the trade union movement.”''
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/mar/23/shrewsbury-24-court-of-appeal-overturns-1970s-picketing-convictions
One day the truth will come out about events in 1984, especially Ogreave
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And it should but the tories and their apologist will not be ones to vote for that.
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The Shewsbury 24 from the BBC ............ this is what happens when governments and the police are allowed to work in secrecy.
''The group of trade unionists, who became known as the Shrewsbury 24, had run a long campaign arguing that they had been persecuted by the establishment to deter workers from taking action to improve their pay and working conditions.
After the ruling, Tomlinson, who had been sentenced to two years in jail for conspiracy to intimidate and affray, said: “Whilst it is only right that these convictions are overturned – it is a sorry day for British justice. The reality is we should never have been standing in the dock.
“We were brought to trial at the apparent behest of the building industry bosses, the Conservative government, and ably supported by the secret state. This was a political trial not just of me, and the Shrewsbury pickets – but was a trial of the trade union movement.”''
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/mar/23/shrewsbury-24-court-of-appeal-overturns-1970s-picketing-convictions
One day the truth will come out about events in 1984, especially Ogreave
The lessons of Orgreave still haven't been learned. Reports coming out of Bristol today stating that, in fact, no police officers suffered serious injuries, much less any broken bones or a collapsed lung as reported, it's worth revisiting this from 2008. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2008/dec/15/kingsnorth-climate-change-environment-police
Police brutalise a peaceful protest again, but put out a story that 70 officers were injured in the press. Then, you quietly admit that none of those occurred in contact with the protestors, and you're counting insect bites and headaches as "injuries". It's part of a pattern that'll be familiar to anyone who remembers Orgreave. Provoke and antagonise your targets until they have to fight back, then put out stories to paint the protestors as a violent mob who were looking for trouble. Say they struck first, lie about the force you used, and lie about how many police were hurt in return. All with the help of the media. The truth is, if they look at Orgreave, they'll have to look at dozens of other incidents over the years and it'll get expensive for them.
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I do wonder whether we will ever see the truth about Orgreave released. The CPS decided not to press charges, not because there was no case (anyone who spends 30 seconds on the matter knows there was a conspiracy to pervert justice) but because too much time had passed.
I suspect we will never know the extent to which that conspiracy was organised by the very upper echelons of the police, and how much they were guided by the Govt.
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''There Is No Absolute Doctrine Of Separation Of Powers In The UK Constitution. Overlaps Exist Both In Terms Of The Functions Of The Organs Of State And The Personnel Operating Within Them. The UK Relies On A System Of Checks And Balances To Prevent Against Abuses Of Power. Examine How The Checks And Balances Work To Prevent Against Potential Abuses Of Power And Discuss The Extent To Which The Current Administration Has Sought To Strengthen These Checks And Balances In Recent Years''
Patel giving instructions to police ........... we're on the way to a police state.
https://www.lawteacher.net/free-law-essays/family-law/separation-of-powers-in-the-uk.php#:~:text=The%20UK%20Relies%20On%20A,Prevent%20Against%20Abuses%20Of%20Power.&text=Britain's%20concept%20of%20separation%20of,should%20exercise%20their%20powers%20accordingly.
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Police attacking a journalist covering the protests in Bristol last night
https://twitter.com/Kevin_Maguire/status/1375719301789978630
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Officer punches woman in face
https://twitter.com/barneyfarmer/status/1375710886900404224
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Person lying on floor beaten with baton
https://twitter.com/arranseaton/status/1375586025658011648
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nothing out of the ordinary in a police state
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All one sided heh?
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Seems like it was one sided until the protestors started fighting back, yes. Only one side is responsible for this escalating into what it has.
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Step outside the law, face the consequences, no sympathy
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Step outside the law, face the consequences, no sympathy
Did you say the same at Orgreave and Hillsborough as well?
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Step outside the law, face the consequences, no sympathy
Did you say the same at Orgreave and Hillsborough as well?
I would have if I was old enough. Applies to police too mind.
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All one sided heh?
when the police are armed, trained, wearing protection and have the protection and go-head from the government I suppose you're right rr
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Step outside the law, face the consequences, no sympathy
Which law did that journalist, doing his job reporting the news, step outside of to be assaulted by a police officer?
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''Ambiguous, confusing and a mess is how the current coronavirus regulations dealing with protest have been described by MPs and peers tasked with scrutinising the government’s record on human rights. And it is the backdrop to the police versus protesters debate that should not be ignored''
''The UK government has been keen to emphasise that the police service is operationally independent and it is not appropriate for ministers (PATEL) to instruct forces on how to behave. But the government is responsible for the legislation that the police must enforce''
''In fact, the Joint Committee on Human Rights (JCHR), a cross-party group, concluded that protest has never has been completely illegal during the pandemic, even under lockdown''
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/30/ever-changing-covid-rules-on-protest-set-up-conflict-with-the-police
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''Met police pays damages to women arrested at Sarah Everard vigil
Apology and ‘substantial’ payouts to Patsy Stevenson and Dania al-Obeid mark major climbdown after years of legal battles''
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/sep/14/met-police-pays-damages-to-women-arrested-at-sarah-everard-vigil
Did you blame the women?
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The ginger haired one seemed determined to be arrested with somebody conveniently there to capture the moment. JMHO
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Gosh someone took a smartphone when they went out.
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Statistically a man is more likely to be attacked/victim of a violent crime when out. And more likely to be arrested. So can we all stop falling for this fragile female act just because little precious ginger got arrested for being a t**t. Not in any way condoning what happened to Everard and the guy should rot in jail but stop falling for this feminist driven nonsense that every woman is discrimatrd against or a victim every day
People need to start realising what this 'men are the porblem' propaganda does to men's mental health. It's no wonder rus men are topping ourselves at an ever increasing rate when it's now become socially acceptable for all and everyone to have a go
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''Scotland Yard has apologised and paid “substantial damages” to two women arrested during the vigil for Sarah Everard, in a major climbdown following years of legal battles over the policing of the event.
In a move that the new Metropolitan police commissioner, Mark Rowley, will hope draws a line under one of the darkest periods of the Met’s recent history, the force acknowledged that it was “understandable” that Patsy Stevenson and Dania Al-Obeid had wanted to attend a candlelit vigil at Clapham Common because they felt women had been “badly let down”.
The women told the Guardian the apology had been hard-won and was welcome, but vowed to continue to “speak up about police abuse” and fight for better policing of violence against women and girls''
From the link posted above
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''The two former England internationals swapped X accounts for five days without telling anyone. The results were predictable''
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/sep/14/get-back-into-the-kitchen-what-happened-when-jill-scott-and-gary-neville-swapped-social-media-accounts
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''The two former England internationals swapped X accounts for five days without telling anyone. The results were predictable''
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/sep/14/get-back-into-the-kitchen-what-happened-when-jill-scott-and-gary-neville-swapped-social-media-accounts
Yes it's so vital that we focus on what Russian bots are saying. Don't let's focus on why boys always leave school with lower grades and why men have a shorter life span. But no, let's continue the men are evil nonesense
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I’m guessing they will donate all of the damages to their worthy cause
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Post #21 thus thread
I think and hope most on this forum have an understanding of what the issue is. It’s not about trying to paint all men as monsters or trying to argue that men aren’t subject to violent crimes. But it is about men recognising the fear and danger that all women are exposed to just going about our daily lives. It’s trying to get men to have that appreciation and to be active in reducing that fear. That’s through just been aware of how your presence may cause fear or pulling up others whose action is just not acceptable no matter how funny they may think it is.
I am a 60+ year old woman. The number of times in my adult life where at some point I have felt apprehension or fear or discomfort because of men’s actions is scary. I must add mostly innocent actions but still enough to cause negative emotions. I have spoken to many male friends about this. They have all been totally unaware of how it must feel. Some of you have already given examples of different scenarios........the list is very long.
Maybe it’s something I will raise with the club. Something more we can do to be at the forefront of community and supporter issues. Football clubs have a captive audience so maybe we can use that to really get the message across.
And maybe one day I can walk back to my car after a night match without forever looking over my shoulder, without having my car keys ready as a weapon, without carrying an alarm, without always walking down the middle of a road in fear of anyone jumping out from the shadows, without jumping in my car and immediately locking the door........and no I’m not actually a nervous or easily intimidated person......and yes, of course I could park in the car park or ask someone to walk with me......but why the hell should I!