Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: River Don on March 17, 2021, 11:07:40 pm
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https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/mar/17/global-oil-demand-could-exceed-pre-covid-levels-without-clean-energy-moves
The International Energy Authority are expecting an unprecedented surge in oil consumption as we emerge from the pandemic.
Within a couple of years we will exceed pre-pandemic levels of consumption, going above 100 million barrels a day for the first time. The pandemic slump in oil consumption will prove to be just a blip.
Be under no illusion this is a far greater crisis than the one we are currently so concerned with.
The Covid thread on this forum has been going strongly all year. I expect this one to drop away very rapidly, starkly demonstrating the lack of concern that surrounds this urgent issue.
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If they can find a way to blame Boris the lefties will make it their next port of call. Be patient RD.
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Totally agree with you RD, I feel many think it is not their problem and expect that others deal with it as with most difficult decisions. What is not palatable to many is that this is both a personal and political challenge.
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My conscience is clear; my carbon footprint is zero.
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Genuine question SS (very sad that we have to write that these days...). How have you managed that and how do you measure it?
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My conscience is clear; my carbon footprint is zero.
No ones carbon footprint is zero, everday items are manufactured by using carbon emissions in some form or other
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Bit of creative accounting going on from Scawsby here.
If he can post on here, he has a carbon footprint.
How big his carbon footprint is, that's a different question.
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Bit of creative accounting going on from Scawsby here.
If he can post on here, he has a carbon footprint.
How big his carbon footprint is, that's a different question.
Exactly
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I think Scawsby might be thinking that ‘Carbon’ is an expensive footwear brand and, being from Scawsby, he’s never had a pair.
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As individuals there's not too much we can do as society needs a huge change to solve it.
There are too many conflicting strategies on climate change unfortunately. Something has to change significantly to solve it. It won't happen in our lifetimes I doubt.
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As individuals there's not too much we can do as society needs a huge change to solve it.
There are too many conflicting strategies on climate change unfortunately. Something has to change significantly to solve it. It won't happen in our lifetimes I doubt.
Given a lot of us on here probably have another 30 years or so, it's got to be well on the way to being solved in our lifetimes. Otherwise at the rate its going, it'll be too late.
I'm sorry to say, I don't think we will fix it. The reason demand for oil is rising is because developing countries have growing populations that are becoming more wealthy. Its nigh on impossible to do anything about that. The small reductions in carbon emissions achieved in the west are not enough to compensate.
Today the government has slashed the subsidy on electric vehicles, in the same year they have held fuel tax.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/mar/18/uk-slashes-grants-for-electric-car-buyers-while-increasing-petrol-vehicle-support
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Looks like its game over for the bottom trawlers, if this is sound;
https://time.com/5947430/bottom-trawling-carbon-emissions-study/
The reduced subsidy for EV that RD mentions is aimed at the high end buyers.
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We cannot prevent fossil fuel use in the developing world. Practically or morally. So we have a need to develop huge carbon capture technology very rapidly.
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Disagree with the assumptions behind that, BST.
The objective is to replace fossil based consumption with renewable options. This will have effect once the latter is cheaper than the former.
Think of how mobile tech bypassed landlines in Africa.
Same thing is happening with renewable energy, and will happen with electric vehicles at scale and at exponential pace.
Carbon capture is a sideshow, and those who go down that route will have stranded assets on their books as the tech coming down the cost curve isolates them.
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As individuals there's not too much we can do as society needs a huge change to solve it.
There are too many conflicting strategies on climate change unfortunately. Something has to change significantly to solve it. It won't happen in our lifetimes I doubt.
Given a lot of us on here probably have another 30 years or so, it's got to be well on the way to being solved in our lifetimes. Otherwise at the rate its going, it'll be too late.
I'm sorry to say, I don't think we will fix it. The reason demand for oil is rising is because developing countries have growing populations that are becoming more wealthy. Its nigh on impossible to do anything about that. The small reductions in carbon emissions achieved in the west are not enough to compensate.
Today the government has slashed the subsidy on electric vehicles, in the same year they have held fuel tax.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/mar/18/uk-slashes-grants-for-electric-car-buyers-while-increasing-petrol-vehicle-support
Nice that the UN Climate Conference is named after our very own James Coppinger.
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I genuinely hope you are right Albie. I'm sceptical that developing countries will be able to develop carbon-free power sources quickly but I admit I'm no expert - that's a gut instinct.
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As individuals there's not too much we can do as society needs a huge change to solve it.
There are too many conflicting strategies on climate change unfortunately. Something has to change significantly to solve it. It won't happen in our lifetimes I doubt.
Given a lot of us on here probably have another 30 years or so, it's got to be well on the way to being solved in our lifetimes. Otherwise at the rate its going, it'll be too late.
I'm sorry to say, I don't think we will fix it. The reason demand for oil is rising is because developing countries have growing populations that are becoming more wealthy. Its nigh on impossible to do anything about that. The small reductions in carbon emissions achieved in the west are not enough to compensate.
Today the government has slashed the subsidy on electric vehicles, in the same year they have held fuel tax.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/mar/18/uk-slashes-grants-for-electric-car-buyers-while-increasing-petrol-vehicle-support
I don't disagree and I said that being 33 myself, but I just cannot see it for the reasons BST mentions and the power of those with vested interests in oil etc (including most of our pensions I expect).
It's not just fuel but energy (theoretically easier) and other aspects - cotton, steel, plastics etc. The more we produce the more damage.
And this is where policies conflict isn't it?
The government wants to reduce emissions but reduces the grants for EVs - disappointing, they also are not subsidising a charging infrastructure anything like enouth. Labour want to privatise a steel company if possible, but also reduce emissions from a blast furnace - it isn't compatible.
I looked at an electric car on my next vehicle options but for a family car it just doesn't work.
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Labour want to privatise a steel company if possible, but also reduce emissions from a blast furnace - it isn't compatible.
Sweden have done it - using hydrogen
https://www.rechargenews.com/transition/-world-first-as-hydrogen-used-to-power-commercial-steel-production/2-1-799308
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Genuine question SS (very sad that we have to write that these days...). How have you managed that and how do you measure it?
I suppose I'm just talking about personal choices. I no longer smoke, no longer drive a car, no longer use buses, and no longer travel on planes.
However, I admit there are other reasons involved for these decisions as well.
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Labour want to privatise a steel company if possible, but also reduce emissions from a blast furnace - it isn't compatible.
Sweden have done it - using hydrogen
https://www.rechargenews.com/transition/-world-first-as-hydrogen-used-to-power-commercial-steel-production/2-1-799308
That is an interesting article wilts.....and yet on the same page is an another article telling us that the amount of wind and solar power required is immense.
It shows how difficult any transition is going to be.
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I think Scawsby might be thinking that ‘Carbon’ is an expensive footwear brand and, being from Scawsby, he’s never had a pair.
I'll have you know, Belton, that everyone in Scawsby walks round in Gucci shoes.
The fact that they're all nicked is of no consequence.
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Labour want to privatise a steel company if possible, but also reduce emissions from a blast furnace - it isn't compatible.
Sweden have done it - using hydrogen
https://www.rechargenews.com/transition/-world-first-as-hydrogen-used-to-power-commercial-steel-production/2-1-799308
Wilts if you read it they aren't replacing blast furnaces with it but the furnaces within other areas (different science and end product) a step but not the full one.
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This virus has had some positive effects on the global climate.
I can only give an example of this very close to home. My wife works for the local council in children’s services. She used to drive around the county clocking up circa 700 miles a month. Since lockdown she has worked form home and conducted meetings with families and other professionals online. She has been told in no un certain terms that her working life is likely to never return to how it used to be. This is the same story across many areas of Lincolnshire County Council staff we are told. We have got rid of a car going down to being a single car family. I don’t know the exact carbon reduction in this , but it must be significant . She has worked form home for a whole year now so that’s about 8500 miles less travelled in a two litre diesel car. That’s about 1700 kg of co2.
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The sooner the jump to hydrogen is made the better, I believe battery cars will just be a stepping stone to get there.
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This virus has had some positive effects on the global climate.
I can only give an example of this very close to home. My wife works for the local council in children’s services. She used to drive around the county clocking up circa 700 miles a month. Since lockdown she has worked form home and conducted meetings with families and other professionals online. She has been told in no un certain terms that her working life is likely to never return to how it used to be. This is the same story across many areas of Lincolnshire County Council staff we are told. We have got rid of a car going down to being a single car family. I don’t know the exact carbon reduction in this , but it must be significant . She has worked form home for a whole year now so that’s about 8500 miles less travelled in a two litre diesel car. That’s about 1700 kg of co2.
Probably that scenario will apply to loads of people NR.
Even as a retired person, my mileage last year was only 60% of what I usually do and my wife’s car only did 1000 miles instead of the usual 4000.
Lots of businesses have latched on to the fact that they won’t need as many people to go into the office and staff will continue to work from home.
Will we even need to continue with the HS2 project when the last year has shown how business meetings can be done on zoom.
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Talking of hs2. My youngest son works for PWC in Birmingham. He is most definitely a millennial, and travels to London often by train for business purposes. He does not get hs2 at all. Thinks it’s a waste of money. It makes me wonder which contracts the govt have their finger in and who stands to make serious dough out of it.
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On the matter of hydrogen, it is investigated on R4 in "The Bottom Line" at 8.30 tonight.
Green hydrogen is a very small fraction of the hydrogen production at present.
More likely as a natural gas replacement than a transport fuel for cars maybe!
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The increasing efficiency of renewables will help in making the transition from traditional forms of energy production.
''Solar panel efficiency is a measure of the amount of sunlight (irradiation) which falls on the surface of a solar panel and is converted into electricity. Due to the many advances in photovoltaic technology over recent years, the average panel conversion efficiency has increased from 15% to well over 20%. This large jump in efficiency resulted in the power rating of a standard size panel to increase from 250W up to 370W''
https://www.cleanenergyreviews.info/blog/most-efficient-solar-panels
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Genuine question SS (very sad that we have to write that these days...). How have you managed that and how do you measure it?
I suppose I'm just talking about personal choices. I no longer smoke, no longer drive a car, no longer use buses, and no longer travel on planes.
However, I admit there are other reasons involved for these decisions as well.
I can confirm that SS has never been a believer in using buses, mainly because he always missed the last bus from Donny of a night. Often saw him with his mop of hair and Crombie making his slow way along York Road. I'm guessing the hair and crombie are long gone but not the aversion to public transport :)
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Labour want to privatise a steel company if possible, but also reduce emissions from a blast furnace - it isn't compatible.
Sweden have done it - using hydrogen
https://www.rechargenews.com/transition/-world-first-as-hydrogen-used-to-power-commercial-steel-production/2-1-799308
Wilts if you read it they aren't replacing blast furnaces with it but the furnaces within other areas (different science and end product) a step but not the full one.
Blimey give them chance, they have only just started it!
It was discussed on the radio this morning, which is how I heard about it, as the future for steel making to become mainstream in the later part of the decade. If it is then I am sure we will hear more about it.
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Labour want to privatise a steel company if possible, but also reduce emissions from a blast furnace - it isn't compatible.
Sweden have done it - using hydrogen
https://www.rechargenews.com/transition/-world-first-as-hydrogen-used-to-power-commercial-steel-production/2-1-799308
Wilts if you read it they aren't replacing blast furnaces with it but the furnaces within other areas (different science and end product) a step but not the full one.
Blimey give them chance, they have only just started it!
It was discussed on the radio this morning, which is how I heard about it, as the future for steel making to become mainstream in the later part of the decade. If it is then I am sure we will hear more about it.
We will see. I'm not sure either the climate or steel industry can wait that long. The industry operates on tiny margins with competition. To make something worldwide that is both green and profitable is something that I struggle to see happening anytime soon. The cost of even developing new tech in that sector is eyewatering.
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Labour want to privatise a steel company if possible, but also reduce emissions from a blast furnace - it isn't compatible.
Sweden have done it - using hydrogen
https://www.rechargenews.com/transition/-world-first-as-hydrogen-used-to-power-commercial-steel-production/2-1-799308
Wilts if you read it they aren't replacing blast furnaces with it but the furnaces within other areas (different science and end product) a step but not the full one.
Blimey give them chance, they have only just started it!
I thought you were talking abut the UK’s life without the EU for a second.
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''Oil firms knew decades ago fossil fuels posed grave health risks, files reveal
Exclusive: documents seen by Guardian show companies fought clean-air rules despite being aware of harm caused by air pollution''
Armed with full disclosure the world could have moved forward to combat deadly air pollution and fight the effects of global waming at the same time.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/mar/18/oil-industry-fossil-fuels-air-pollution-documents#:~:text=The%20oil%20industry%20knew%20at,seen%20by%20the%20Guardian%20reveal.
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Genuine question SS (very sad that we have to write that these days...). How have you managed that and how do you measure it?
I suppose I'm just talking about personal choices. I no longer smoke, no longer drive a car, no longer use buses, and no longer travel on planes.
However, I admit there are other reasons involved for these decisions as well.
I can confirm that SS has never been a believer in using buses, mainly because he always missed the last bus from Donny of a night. Often saw him with his mop of hair and Crombie making his slow way along York Road. I'm guessing the hair and crombie are long gone but not the aversion to public transport :)
You're right, Raven, the afro hair and the crombie are long gone; and so has the youthful Mungo Jerry face, which has somehow morphed into a cross between Arthur Mullard and a f*cking gargoyle.
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I wonder if young Greta will be outraged about the biohazardous filthy blue masks clotting up the oceans?
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She's too busy looking after the greta good Nudga :lol:
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As a follow up to the reduction in grants for EV, here is an article about those still eligible;
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-9377363/EVs-Government-subsidise-slashed-plug-car-grant.html
Focus on the lower priced market, away from Tesla.
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I genuinely hope you are right Albie. I'm sceptical that developing countries will be able to develop carbon-free power sources quickly but I admit I'm no expert - that's a gut instinct.
They don't have to when companies in the West will fund it for them as a carbon offset of their own emissions.
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I suppose what it is with developing countries, as much as the industrialisation taking place, there are more fundamental changes taking place.
So a growing population that is becoming more wealthy is likely to be eating more meat and more red meat. Better housing requirements means more building, more roads, generally more concrete being poured so more carbon. That's before we get to motorbikes and cars that are still much more likely to be powered by combustion engines. The lifestyles are inevitably becoming more carbon intensive with wealth.
The bottom line is despite all the initiatives in the west like carbon offsets, green energy and the introduction of electric vehicles, almost every single year emissions still rise globally. Which means, given the time constraints there has to be a much more robust approach than we have seen so far. I'm not sure it can happen without falling living standards.... Which no politician can tolerate.
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RD.
Maintenance of living standards in the developed world (in fact, maintenance of at least a gradual increase in living standards) is a prerequisite for any policy.
If history tells us anything (both long gone history and the experience of the past 10 years) it is that once you break the social contract that people in developed countries can get on by working hard, you immediately empower a populist Right that would pull the plug (no pun) on the altruistic (actually, "enlightened self-interest") approach that we are going to need over the next 50 years, of subsidising the low-carbon development of the developing world.
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Ski-ing way off piste here, Lads.
If you look at the key trends in the power sector, then no subsidy is going to be required.
https://assets.bbhub.io/professional/sites/24/BNEF-2021-Executive-Factbook.pdf
Bloomberg New Energy finance gives an indication of future trends.
See the section of graphics on power from p.23.
The only sector which will require subsidy to remain active is the fossil fuel sector.
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Albie,
We've been seeing reports like that for 30 years or more. The only pertinent graph in it is the first one which shows Co2 levels steadily growing. In fact if anything the rate is increasing not slowing.
So while some trends in energy production maybe down other trends are obviously still going up. The initial report I linked to says the IEA are forecasting oil production to rise. Not fall.
The difficulty is growth. While some areas maybe coming more efficient and some fall away, overall there are ever more people wanting ever more. So I can't help but be pessimistic really.
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RD,
Sorry, but no renewable energy professional will agree with you, and neither do investment analysts!
I thought we were talking about Africa, and the potential for development on a clean path rather than the historical trajectory of the developed economies.
The IEA arose from the oil crises, and has been essentially a lobby for fossil fuel interests.
In the past, most work on energy systems from a reputable source has sought to extrapolate current trend by linear assumptions.
Every previous IEA report made the same mistake, and every forecast from them has proved incorrect, and by a large margin.
The IEA has belatedly revised its assessment of renewables;
https://www.carbonbrief.org/solar-is-now-cheapest-electricity-in-history-confirms-iea
The critical error is always to assume that a single sector change does not imply a system wide re-allocation of priorities.
The point I am making is that the cost basis for a fundamental shift is now in place, and that will change everything in its wake.
That said, repositioning of developed economies is a challenge. It is not the same challenge that faces sub-saharan Africa!
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I wonder if young Greta will be outraged about the biohazardous filthy blue masks clotting up the oceans?
Do you not think it is funny that in general the same people who say that Shamima Begum was too young to know what she was doing when she joined ISIS are the same people who think that Greta the doom dwarf has all the answers?
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The far right coalition government here is resisting all attempts for a sensible approach to mitigating the effects of climate change, but is being thwarted by an energy industry that will not finance thermal coal or gas power stations and are building solar farms and battery banks leaving traditional forms of power generation as stranded assets. This has brought significant price reductions to households, the opposite of what was predicted by the right.
The labor state governments here are in a role reversal with Qld, WA and NT forging ahead with fracking and coalmines ... Lino's (labor in name only) while NSW, a right wing coalition has recently announced a 32bn renewables package.
''In a move that experts say highlights the seismic changes underway in fossil fuel industries including natural gas, the owners of the Dampier-to-Bunbury gas pipeline want to bring its effective end-of-life forward from 2090 to 2063''
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-23/dampier-to-bunbury-gas-pipeline-lifespan-slashed/13239444
In a press release Greta sends her love and suggests we wait for AL to grow up before judging him.
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Given the reducing costs of renewable energy technologies, any rational economic choice will be to select the least cost option for new capacity.
The resource base comes free of charge, so those with abundant sunshine and wind are quids in going forward.
Rather than political decisions being dominated by the need to access oil or gas, maybe the future is in electricity export transfer, and storage in batteries.
Hydrogen is an interesting means of transfer, if it is derived from clean tech sources.
Sydney has hit the nail on the head about the delay introduced by the legacy industry. Incumbents defending their patch is the big brake on change, but on cost grounds alone they can't win.
Diversion strategies like CCS just get in the way, and gobble up money better spent on real solutions.
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The far right coalition government here is resisting all attempts for a sensible approach to mitigating the effects of climate change, but is being thwarted by an energy industry that will not finance thermal coal or gas power stations and are building solar farms and battery banks leaving traditional forms of power generation as stranded assets. This has brought significant price reductions to households, the opposite of what was predicted by the right.
The labor state governments here are in a role reversal with Qld, WA and NT forging ahead with fracking and coalmines ... Lino's (labor in name only) while NSW, a right wing coalition has recently announced a 32bn renewables package.
''In a move that experts say highlights the seismic changes underway in fossil fuel industries including natural gas, the owners of the Dampier-to-Bunbury gas pipeline want to bring its effective end-of-life forward from 2090 to 2063''
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-23/dampier-to-bunbury-gas-pipeline-lifespan-slashed/13239444
In a press release Greta sends her love and suggests we wait for AL to grow up before judging him.
Hasn't she got any home work to finish?
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Albie,
The rescource base is far from being free. Yes the wind blows and the sun shines for nothing but turbines, solar panels and batteries all have to be manufactured, transported, maintained and quite regularly replaced. That comes with both economic and environmental costs.
Add to that the cost of running a parallel natural gas system, to kick in when it's not windy or sunny and it all adds up.
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Eventually batteries and storage and other energy storage facilities will make it unecessary to run traditional power plants.
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Eventually batteries and storage and other energy storage facilities will make it unecessary to run traditional power plants.
Pembroke Nat gas powerstation has a power output of 2,200MW.
The largest battery installation in the world is the gateway Lith-ion battery at San Diego. It can supply 230MW. For one hour.
I'd say we are still a very long way off replacing Nat Gas with batteries.
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Nw energy sources are being developed all the time RD and yes the tipping point is a far away but I wouldn't want my money in thermal coal
''BHP commits to selling its thermal coalmines within two years.
Move follows pressure from investors but company stops short of full exit from coalmining''
''BHP confirms coal exits as profits underwhelm''
these show that large miners are looking elsewhere and mines that are inefficient or produce poor quality coal will go first
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The UKs biggest powerplant is still Drax. Except that's been converted from coal to burning trees now.
I'm not really convinced burning wood pellets is a sustainable green form of energy. It certainly won't be if other nations follow our lead.
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It's green if the wood is from a sustainable source the main problen I would think as with incinerators is the fine particle pollution.
'''Invisible killer': fossil fuels caused 8.7m deaths globally in 2018, research finds
Pollution from power plants, vehicles and other sources accounted for one in five of all deaths that year, more detailed analysis reveals''
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/feb/09/fossil-fuels-pollution-deaths-research
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It's the sustainable sources that's the problem, trees just don't grow that quickly.
If the Chinese decided they wanted to follow the British lead and go green by burning trees in their coal fired powerstations then Canada's forests wouldn't last long, assuming the Canadians were willing to sell them the wood. At best it's only a limited solution that will require strict oversight and management of forests.
That's not to say particulate pollution isn't also a significant problem with burning wood.
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I got the 'main' bit wrong about pollution RD the main problem is global warming but fine particle pollution and associated deaths and suffering should deter most sensible governments from building new ones and speed up the retiement of those still in service.
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https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bill-gates-backs-bid-to-cool-earth-with-chalk-dust-llrbmwlmr
Don't worry, uncle Bill will save us by spraying chalk dust into the atmosphere to block out some of the sun's energy.
Not sure chalk dust particles on people's lungs has been thought of though?
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paywall Nudga
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Albie,
The rescource base is far from being free. Yes the wind blows and the sun shines for nothing but turbines, solar panels and batteries all have to be manufactured, transported, maintained and quite regularly replaced. That comes with both economic and environmental costs.
Add to that the cost of running a parallel natural gas system, to kick in when it's not windy or sunny and it all adds up.
RD,
Apologies if I have not been clear. I was referring to the fuel cost to allow the installation to work, not the cost of infrastructure.
Energy investments are measured by something called the "levelized cost of energy".
In brief, this takes the capital expenditure of the infrastructure, adds in the cost of the energy source (zero for solar and wind), then amortises the total over the lifetime of the facility.
This is to allow comparison of costs over time, to inform decision makers.
So all the running costs, including replacement of parts, is fully accounted.
As Sydney says, the operation of a parallel gas system is a transition requirement, but over time it will be retired in many locations. The UK is planning to phase out new gas boilers from 2025 at present.
Technologies offering lower capital costs, (which are continuing to fall), with much lower operating costs, will win out in all places where governments are not in hock to fossil fuel interests.
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Albie,
The rescource base is far from being free. Yes the wind blows and the sun shines for nothing but turbines, solar panels and batteries all have to be manufactured, transported, maintained and quite regularly replaced. That comes with both economic and environmental costs.
Add to that the cost of running a parallel natural gas system, to kick in when it's not windy or sunny and it all adds up.
RD,
Apologies if I have not been clear. I was referring to the fuel cost to allow the installation to work, not the cost of infrastructure.
Energy investments are measured by something called the "levelized cost of energy".
In brief, this takes the capital expenditure of the infrastructure, adds in the cost of the energy source (zero for solar and wind), then amortises the total over the lifetime of the facility.
This is to allow comparison of costs over time, to inform decision makers.
So all the running costs, including replacement of parts, is fully accounted.
As Sydney says, the operation of a parallel gas system is a transition requirement, but over time it will be retired in many locations. The UK is planning to phase out new gas boilers from 2025 at present.
Technologies offering lower capital costs, (which are continuing to fall), with much lower operating costs, will win out in all places where governments are not in hock to fossil fuel interests.
How does the levelised energy cost of solar and wind compare with natural gas, if the transitional parallel gas system is included? I expect just running gas would be cheaper because there's only half the infrastructure to maintain.
I did not know the UK is planning on phasing out new gas systems by 2025... Just 4 years. That will still allow for a few decades of gas power from existing facilities, though won't it?
It must because there will have to be some huge leaps forward in battery technology before we can rely on that. What else is there? Dropping weights down mineshafts? Some sort of hydro storage? New small scale nuclear facilities?
It's going to be very challenging.
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Small Modular Nuclear reactors are in development at the moment. Whether they will be safe, efficient or practical, I've no idea, but the Govt is chucking money at the development of them.
https://www.rolls-royce.com/products-and-services/nuclear/small-modular-reactors.aspx#/
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RD,
It depends on your location, and the incentives in place to support each option.
For a general summary;
https://ourworldindata.org/cheap-renewables-growth
Battery costs are falling at a rapid pace, and are likely to continue to drop in the mid term.
A supply bottleneck could arise if raw materials are constrained, but much of the research is looking at replacing the expensive elements in the battery chemistry.
Edit;
The gas boiler ban applies to new build from 2025.
Bozo announced 2023, and then backtracked.
It may change again, you never know with Bozo.
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Speaking of u turns, I saw today that Merkel has done one in Germany with regards to the Easter holidays.
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The small modular nuclear option seems to me to only produce high cost electricity with all the downsides of conventional nuclear.
There is a review of the difficulties here;
https://climatenewsnetwork.net/small-nuclear-power-plants-no-use-in-climate-crisis/
This is how vested interests operate in a situation where the political process is captured by incumbents.
Public money is diverted into sidelines that divert from the main objective by the most efficient means, because the established players make a margin on the status quo.
Nuclear does offer low carbon electricity, but at a significant extra cost to providing the capacity via renewables.
The Our World in Data linked I gave above sets this out. The cost per unit of energy is way above that from solar or wind.
As with Hinckley Point, the price of electricity has to be guaranteed by government at a level above market rates.
This means a premium on sales, and customers carry the tab for years.
What happens to those industries whose energy costs will make them uncompetitive at those rates?
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Stopping corporate donations to political parties would solve most of the problems.
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I don't know why solar panels aren't fitted as standard on every new build that goes up - seems like a cost effective way of generating renewable energy without having to put turbines up or use the small modular nuclear option mentioned above.
We bought my panels in mid 2015 and qualified for FiT (Feed in Tariff) payments - renamed SEG (Smart Export Guarantee) payments in 2020. The initial outlay was £5,200, but we have recouped well over half of that already in FiT/SEG payments alone - about £2,900. The solar panel company stated that it would take approximately 9-10 years to break even - so this is on par.
We also save between £20-40 a month on our electricity bills by using the energy created by the solar panels at home - obviously saving less in winter and more summer - we both work, so don't perhaps make the best of the benefits by using more of our produced electricity during the day. However, even taking the lower figure as a benchmark, we will have saved in excess of £1.3k on top of the SEG payments. The good thing about this (for us) is that we will continue to receive SEG payments for the next 14 years, and also save on our energy bills beyond this point - I've been told they panels still generate electricity for 25-30 years...
It seems madness not to incorporate these into every new build going forward - I know that FiT/SEG payments are no longer, but there are savings to be made.... both to bills and the environment.
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It may not be directly linked to climate change, but regarding water, I’ve never understood why new builds boat have underground water collection tanks fitted in gardens. We have a well from 1930 that’s was built with the house. It collects all the rain water off the house and has an overflow into a 1metre cubed soak away, that we added as a precaution. I use the water to clean the car (no streaks left) and to water the garden. At a time when We should conserve water, it amazes me new houses don’t have this factored in.
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I've heard that in order to eradicate the water shortage problem, Kier Starmer has suggested diluting it.
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I've heard that in order to eradicate the water shortage problem, Kier Starmer has suggested diluting it.
Perhaps the funniest thing I’ve read on here for a while.
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So, it turns out it's not only Western US and Canada experiencing truly extraordinary temperatures again this summer..
Siberia is again too.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/14/siberia-wildfires-russia-army-planes-and-thousands-of-firefighters-battle-blazes
Temperatures 8-10 degrees hotter than the norm. That's not just an usually hot summer. That's really extreme.
And its all happening at the same time as the American North.
I think we're cooked.
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I wonder how many mammoth remains will be uncovered the Palaeontologists will be swarming all over them. You never know what else might get uncovered
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More bad news.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jul/14/amazon-rainforest-now-emitting-more-co2-than-it-absorbs
But then, everywhere you look things are going in the wrong direction.
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It is a serious trend in Brazil and western countries should be clear they will not accept imports from there.
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It's a serious trend all around the world, it's hard for the western world to lecture others when we are not pulling our weight.
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Who is responsible for that all of us or governments? Should governments force us to change our ways? The UK government has a fairly ambitious programme but it's still too slow.
As an example my new car is taking months and months to be built as they can't get certain parts. That will hold up the transition from fossil fuel vehicles and it needs to be stronger.
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Who is responsible for that all of us or governments? Should governments force us to change our ways? The UK government has a fairly ambitious programme but it's still too slow.
As an example my new car is taking months and months to be built as they can't get certain parts. That will hold up the transition from fossil fuel vehicles and it needs to be stronger.
It's a governments job to make the correct decisions for the country, the US and now Europe are changing and will probably introduce tariffs on those countries not having credible greenhouse gas reduction targets. In Australia this will mean a change of lifestyle for many if the government doesn't change and be quick about it. It's a coalition with a conservative liberal party and a right wing national party where the tail wags the dog. All three major parties including labor take millions in donations from fossil fuel companies and so the status quo continues of doing very little.
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The German floods.
Another extreme weather event that has surpassed scientists expectations.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jul/16/climate-scientists-shocked-by-scale-of-floods-in-germany
Things seem to be moving faster than expected.
Some experts fear the recent jolts indicate the climate system may have crossed a dangerous threshold. Instead of smoothly rising temperatures and steadily increasing extremes, they are examining whether the trend may be increasingly “nonlinear” or bumpy as a result of knock-on effects from drought or ice melt in the Arctic. This theory is contentious, but recent events have prompted more discussion about this possibility and the reliability of models based on past observations.[i/]
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The German floods look utterly horrific. I was in Bad Neuenahr a couple of years ago. Lovely little Rhineland town hugging the Ahr river. It looks devastated today. 80 dead and 1300 missing.
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''What does the EU’s carbon tariff proposal mean for Australia?
Trade minister calls the carbon border adjustment mechanism ‘a new form of protectionism’, but experts warn we must prepare''
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jul/15/what-does-the-eus-carbon-tariff-proposal-mean-for-australia
Bring it on, do it now ................. force governments sitting on their hands to do something.
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Floods have been bad in a few of my old stamping grounds - Valkenburg and Roermond in the Limburg region both under water... after the Meuse burst it's banks... so terrible.
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''What does the EU’s carbon tariff proposal mean for Australia?
Trade minister calls the carbon border adjustment mechanism ‘a new form of protectionism’, but experts warn we must prepare''
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jul/15/what-does-the-eus-carbon-tariff-proposal-mean-for-australia
Bring it on, do it now ................. force governments sitting on their hands to do something.
This is really interesting and the detail might be quite important. Inevitably the cost will pass to the purchaser so in effect there's a double taxation potentially unless producers receive a rebate. For example, iron purchased from Australia incurs a tax for carbon, how does that impact upon a steel producer in terms of their carbon credit position?
Also in this circumstance does it lead to a change in approach on say China? With their cheap steel how does the EU plan to ensure it doesn't just move the issue elsewhere. The detail must be very complex as surely it impacts on the UK trade deal too?
Worth adding that finding the balance between these things is the greatest challenge our generation faces. We need to find a way to prevent natural disasters.
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Apparently the Germans had fair warning that the floods coming......
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/f8f10926-e71b-11eb-8a8d-0766fc17d1b5?shareToken=a71c5419e6f768b7c2dc88da3e0cddcf#
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This virus has had some positive effects on the global climate.
I can only give an example of this very close to home. My wife works for the local council in children’s services. She used to drive around the county clocking up circa 700 miles a month. Since lockdown she has worked form home and conducted meetings with families and other professionals online. She has been told in no un certain terms that her working life is likely to never return to how it used to be. This is the same story across many areas of Lincolnshire County Council staff we are told. We have got rid of a car going down to being a single car family. I don’t know the exact carbon reduction in this , but it must be significant . She has worked form home for a whole year now so that’s about 8500 miles less travelled in a two litre diesel car. That’s about 1700 kg of co2.
Probably that scenario will apply to loads of people NR.
Even as a retired person, my mileage last year was only 60% of what I usually do and my wife’s car only did 1000 miles instead of the usual 4000.
Lots of businesses have latched on to the fact that they won’t need as many people to go into the office and staff will continue to work from home.
Will we even need to continue with the HS2 project when the last year has shown how business meetings can be done on zoom.
hound don’t hold your breath on HS2. They seem hell bent on going ahead and wasting ridiculous sums of money on this crazy project.
No it is not required and this money would be so much better spent on modernising the existing rail network across the north of England. That would possibly have a significant effect on the “levelling up “ this government keep talking about but seem incapable of actually carrying it out.
Sydney please read this post. I have just criticised the government. Please take notes. :)
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This virus has had some positive effects on the global climate.
I can only give an example of this very close to home. My wife works for the local council in children’s services. She used to drive around the county clocking up circa 700 miles a month. Since lockdown she has worked form home and conducted meetings with families and other professionals online. She has been told in no un certain terms that her working life is likely to never return to how it used to be. This is the same story across many areas of Lincolnshire County Council staff we are told. We have got rid of a car going down to being a single car family. I don’t know the exact carbon reduction in this , but it must be significant . She has worked form home for a whole year now so that’s about 8500 miles less travelled in a two litre diesel car. That’s about 1700 kg of co2.
Probably that scenario will apply to loads of people NR.
Even as a retired person, my mileage last year was only 60% of what I usually do and my wife’s car only did 1000 miles instead of the usual 4000.
Lots of businesses have latched on to the fact that they won’t need as many people to go into the office and staff will continue to work from home.
Will we even need to continue with the HS2 project when the last year has shown how business meetings can be done on zoom.
hound don’t hold your breath on HS2. They seem hell bent on going ahead and wasting ridiculous sums of money on this crazy project.
No it is not required and this money would be so much better spent on modernising the existing rail network across the north of England. That would possibly have a significant effect on the “levelling up “ this government keep talking about but seem incapable of actually carrying it out.
Sydney please read this post. I have just criticised the government. Please take notes. :)
Funny that you should mention HS2 Campsall.
Only the other day I was reading a couple of posts on the forum in which prominent Labour supporting contributors were slamming the government for not doing enough to level up the great North South divide sufficiently.
They must have conveniently forgotten that the Torys had decided to press on with HS2 which will of course make a massive difference to the levelling up programme.
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HS2 will draw economic activity from the weaker to the stronger region, in this case London.
There is evidence of this from other infrastructure developments.
If you want to boost economic activity in the north, you provide the development there, not reducing journey times to the magnet in the south.
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HS2 will draw economic activity from the weaker to the stronger region, in this case London.
There is evidence of this from other infrastructure developments.
If you want to boost economic activity in the north, you provide the development there, not reducing journey times to the magnet in the south.
Exactly albie, which I why I have been surprised by one poster in particular who says that HS2 is a must despite him saying that there isn’t enough investment in the North.
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HS2 will draw economic activity from the weaker to the stronger region, in this case London.
There is evidence of this from other infrastructure developments.
If you want to boost economic activity in the north, you provide the development there, not reducing journey times to the magnet in the south.
You just sell one-way tickets albie
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I see for the first time ever the met office has issued an extreme heat weather warning for parts of the uk this week.
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This virus has had some positive effects on the global climate.
I can only give an example of this very close to home. My wife works for the local council in children’s services. She used to drive around the county clocking up circa 700 miles a month. Since lockdown she has worked form home and conducted meetings with families and other professionals online. She has been told in no un certain terms that her working life is likely to never return to how it used to be. This is the same story across many areas of Lincolnshire County Council staff we are told. We have got rid of a car going down to being a single car family. I don’t know the exact carbon reduction in this , but it must be significant . She has worked form home for a whole year now so that’s about 8500 miles less travelled in a two litre diesel car. That’s about 1700 kg of co2.
Probably that scenario will apply to loads of people NR.
Even as a retired person, my mileage last year was only 60% of what I usually do and my wife’s car only did 1000 miles instead of the usual 4000.
Lots of businesses have latched on to the fact that they won’t need as many people to go into the office and staff will continue to work from home.
Will we even need to continue with the HS2 project when the last year has shown how business meetings can be done on zoom.
hound don’t hold your breath on HS2. They seem hell bent on going ahead and wasting ridiculous sums of money on this crazy project.
No it is not required and this money would be so much better spent on modernising the existing rail network across the north of England. That would possibly have a significant effect on the “levelling up “ this government keep talking about but seem incapable of actually carrying it out.
Sydney please read this post. I have just criticised the government. Please take notes. :)
I have it all written down, don't you worry bout that, but if modernising the existing system would be better why didn't they do that? what did the scoping study show, they did do one?
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And if anyone wants a sobering read, check out what Holocene Extinction is. It’s been happening for some time, thousands of years in fact. But the extinction rate is accelerating exponentially.
In The Future of Life (2002), Edward Osborne Wilson of Harvard calculated that, if the current rate of human disruption of the biosphere continues, one-half of Earth's higher lifeforms will be extinct by 2100.
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I see for the first time ever the met office has issued an extreme heat weather warning for parts of the uk this week.
I'm not sure it's quite as significant as it seems. I think it's a new rating. We've experienced these conditions before but they weren't officially calling it an extreme heat event.
It does look like it's going to be baking hot though, the weatherman said there could be damage to infrastructure. I suppose that means melting road surfaces and suchlike.
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And if anyone wants a sobering read, check out what Holocene Extinction is. It’s been happening for some time, thousands of years in fact. But the extinction rate is accelerating exponentially.
In The Future of Life (2002), Edward Osborne Wilson of Harvard calculated that, if the current rate of human disruption of the biosphere continues, one-half of Earth's higher lifeforms will be extinct by 2100.
Dunno about this but we can all see the majority of British men now appear to be forced to wear shorts throughout the summer months. It's a disturbing trend and clear evidence of climate change.
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A bus shelter in Solihull exploded due to the heat.
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I think we all had grandfathers who would wear a suit and tie, even on the beach in high summer. Being true men, they would perhaps roll the trouser legs up and go for a bracing paddle in the chill of the North Sea. The only other time men had to show some leg was if they were doing sports or fighting in North Africa.
(https://c8.alamy.com/comp/2C9P1F9/1950s-historical-a-british-family-resting-on-a-log-on-a-pebble-beach-all-formally-dressed-the-man-wearing-a-suits-the-young-man-a-jacket-and-tie-and-the-women-all-in-long-coats-which-in-this-era-was-normal-everyday-clothing-even-when-visiting-the-coast-england-uk-2C9P1F9.jpg)
July, Brid in the 1950s.
Nowadays it's like the Bahamas all summer long.
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I remember a mate telling me stories about the warnings of damage to the ozone from spray can propellant associated with global warming and that they used to muck about and empty cans wanting to bring it on.
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A couple of years ago, on the day we had the highest temperature ever recorded in the UK, I was on a ferry from Dover to Calais. Arrived at Calais and they couldn't open the bow doors to let cars out. They had expanded in the heat and stuck shut. Took us 3 hours to disembark. Our infrastructure is going to come under increasing strain as extreme heat becomes more commonplace.
And yes, I fully appreciate my own micro role in the climate crisis, driving across Europe.
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And if anyone wants a sobering read, check out what Holocene Extinction is. It’s been happening for some time, thousands of years in fact. But the extinction rate is accelerating exponentially.
In The Future of Life (2002), Edward Osborne Wilson of Harvard calculated that, if the current rate of human disruption of the biosphere continues, one-half of Earth's higher lifeforms will be extinct by 2100.
Dunno about this but we can all see the majority of British men now appear to be forced to wear shorts throughout the summer months. It's a disturbing trend and clear evidence of climate change.
The real threat is men who wear vest tops in public in 12 degree 'heat'. They're the ones who really need to be stopped.
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Everything is on Fire.
The driest conditions for 150 years have crated a tinderbox in Siberia.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/20/everything-is-on-fire-siberia-hit-by-unprecedented-burning
Shocking considering it's much the same in the Western US at the same time.
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More extreme weather.
This time heavy flooding in China. Imagine going to work on the tube and then having the carriages fill up with water. People have drowned on their commute.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/20/heavy-flooding-hits-central-china-affecting-tens-of-millions
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Another deluge and flooding in London.
I don't think places like Doncaster can afford to ignore what's going on, it suggests there is going to be extreme rainfall again in South Yorkshire before long.
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COP26 may be the last opportunity to make real change RD, if leaders of 'democracies' don't make the correct call who is going to do that. Will people around the world stand by and allow their leaders to squib on doing something positive, it can't be all left for the next few generations to clean up after the past few generations have done very little surely, there maybe no choice in the very near future.
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Another deluge and flooding in London.
I don't think places like Doncaster can afford to ignore what's going on, it suggests there is going to be extreme rainfall again in South Yorkshire before long.
I’d be interested to know at what capabilities the drainage systems around the country are capable of operating at. Nowhere near 100% I’d guess.
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I don't think any drainage system could withstand those sorts of deluges GL, it's like rivers changing course and just undermining whole areas.
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The main concern in Donny has got to be the river and how easily populated areas around Bentley and Toll Bar flood.
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It looks like the great planetary reset is accelerating alarmingly and no matter how much money you throw at it, it doesn’t care….the balance has teetered to irreversible on this current trajectory,
in a 100 years time this shit pot planet will roast and floods in equal measure,
I blame that Greta lass,………bloody do gooder!
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That Mel Gibson film, was it Waterworld, might be turning into reality then.
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It looks like the great planetary reset is accelerating alarmingly and no matter how much money you throw at it, it doesn’t care….the balance has teetered to irreversible on this current trajectory,
in a 100 years time this shit pot planet will roast and floods in equal measure,
I blame that Greta lass,………bloody do gooder!
It does look grim.
We know the recent northern heat dome effect in Canada and Siberia were predicted by the most pessimistic computer models.
We know the full effect emissions released today won't be fully felt for years. So we know things are certain to deteriorate.
We know emissions are not yet falling even. So things are certain to deteriorate further.
And we know the ice will continue to melt and distort long established weather patterns.
I'd say we're certain to be in for a rough ride from here on in.
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The leaders know what’s happening and they know that it’s practically irreversible whilst mass consumerism feeds our needs….
There is nothing I can do , I have no sacrifices left to give, so I will do all I can to give those I love and care about the best that I am able to provide….
I’m safe , my son and daughter are safe but my sons great great grandchildren will be living in a whole different climate….
Party like it’s 2099
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It will be game over for mankind in fifty years maximum. Reason one is overpopulation. Every other problem is a symptom of this. Nature will take back the cities and in a few years the birds will sing and wildlife will walk the overgrown streets.
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Everything will be ok though, cos we are all going to be driving around in electric cars soon.
And they are very climate friendly aren’t they . ?
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Over population is THE issue .
Everything else is a symptom of this .
They won't do anything about it, because for the whole monitory pyramid to not collapse, a constant supply of new workers are needed .
For the human species to advance to the next level, a whole paradigm shift is needed.
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It will be game over for mankind in fifty years maximum. Reason one is overpopulation. Every other problem is a symptom of this. Nature will take back the cities and in a few years the birds will sing and wildlife will walk the overgrown streets.
There are suggestions we could soon be hitting tipping points that will lead to heat 5°c above the preindustrial average.
If that happens most parts of the globe would become unhabitable. For people, birds and a lot of other wildlife.
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It will be game over for mankind in fifty years maximum. Reason one is overpopulation. Every other problem is a symptom of this. Nature will take back the cities and in a few years the birds will sing and wildlife will walk the overgrown streets.
There are suggestions we could soon be hitting tipping points that will lead to heat 5°c above the preindustrial average.
If that happens most parts of the globe would become unhabitable. For people, birds and a lot of other wildlife.
I'll bet the ants near my back door step will still be there.
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It will be game over for mankind in fifty years maximum. Reason one is overpopulation. Every other problem is a symptom of this. Nature will take back the cities and in a few years the birds will sing and wildlife will walk the overgrown streets.
There are suggestions we could soon be hitting tipping points that will lead to heat 5°c above the preindustrial average.
If that happens most parts of the globe would become unhabitable. For people, birds and a lot of other wildlife.
Ya just gotta look out ya window to see that 5 degrees warmer would be a welcome change, …ray ban and speedo have had enough out of me……it’s payback time!
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We are simultaneously witnessing weather disaster in Germany, the highest temperatures for June in Finland and the US, the catastrophic heatwave in British Columbia, and extreme heat in Siberia.
These are all outlier events that exceed what one would expect if it were 'only' a 1.2C warming impact (that's the amount the Earth has already warmed since pre-industrial times).
Greenhouse gas levels are already too high for a manageable future for humanity.
Quite frankly, coronovirus will be a drop in the ocean compared to what is coming.
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this flood map looks scary
https://www.getthedata.com/flood-map/doncaster
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this flood map looks scary
https://www.getthedata.com/flood-map/doncaster
Maybe they should stop building so many houses so there is somewhere for the water to drain off?
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''Foreign control of North Sea oil licences threatens UK’s net zero goal
Study warns regulator must take action as private equity firms and state-backed groups begin to dominate''
I expect all these licences will be nationalised shortly.
''An investigation by Channel 4 news has uncovered deleted tweets from Steve Brown, the chief executive of North Sea oil minnow Orcadian Energy, which claimed that the global drive to meet the Paris Accord target to reach net zero carbon emissions by 2050 is “insane”. The now deleted personal tweets are understood to have been posted before the company listed on London’s junior stock exchange last month''
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jul/29/foreign-control-of-north-sea-oil-licences-threatens-uks-net-zero-goal
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We are simultaneously witnessing weather disaster in Germany, the highest temperatures for June in Finland and the US, the catastrophic heatwave in British Columbia, and extreme heat in Siberia.
These are all outlier events that exceed what one would expect if it were 'only' a 1.2C warming impact (that's the amount the Earth has already warmed since pre-industrial times).
Greenhouse gas levels are already too high for a manageable future for humanity.
Quite frankly, coronovirus will be a drop in the ocean compared to what is coming.
News today that this year is turning out to be one of the warmest/sunniest and wettest on record in the UK.
We're losing our temperate, mild, dull conditions and things are becoming more extreme and less predictable.
We'll miss that fine rain that wets you through. Nowadays it's either baking hot or monsoon.
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Plenty of that fine rain about this morning RD.
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Plenty of that fine rain about this morning RD.
Did your siblings tease you a lot as a child hound?
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Plenty of that fine rain about this morning RD.
Did your siblings tease you a lot as a child hound?
No, why have you posted that and why do you try to bait other posters.
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I'm naturally inquisitive hound
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Shit stirrer.
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Shit stirrer.
Attention seeking guardian reading volvo driver :lol:
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WUM
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Shit stirrer.
Attention seeking guardian reading volvo driver :lol:
I'm OK with the 1st 2 but what's wrong with being a Volvo driver?
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Shit stirrer.
Attention seeking guardian reading volvo driver :lol:
More likely a Tesla or VW ID.
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I hadn't realised these are a Volvo brand.
https://www.polestar.com/uk/
Very nice looking electric car.
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I hadn't realised these are a Volvo brand.
https://www.polestar.com/uk/
Very nice looking electric car.
It is a nice looking car RD but it does have a look of the Volvo saloon about it.
I had never heard of Polestar before now though.
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I hadn't realised these are a Volvo brand.
https://www.polestar.com/uk/
Very nice looking electric car.
i thought Polestar was Chinese?
It is a nice looking car RD but it does have a look of the Volvo saloon about it.
I had never heard of Polestar before now though.
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I hadn't realised these are a Volvo brand.
https://www.polestar.com/uk/
Very nice looking electric car.
i thought Polestar was Chinese?
It is a nice looking car RD but it does have a look of the Volvo saloon about it.
I had never heard of Polestar before now though.
Volvo is Chinese too now, isn't it?
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I hadn't realised these are a Volvo brand.
https://www.polestar.com/uk/
Very nice looking electric car.
i thought Polestar was Chinese?
It is a nice looking car RD but it does have a look of the Volvo saloon about it.
I had never heard of Polestar before now though.
Volvo is Chinese too now, isn't it?
Yeah, for over ten years.
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I hadn't realised these are a Volvo brand.
https://www.polestar.com/uk/
Very nice looking electric car.
i thought Polestar was Chinese?
It is a nice looking car RD but it does have a look of the Volvo saloon about it.
I had never heard of Polestar before now though.
Volvo is Chinese too now, isn't it?
Yeah, for over ten years.
Polestar was a performance offshoot of Volvo. A bit like AMG I suppose but more research orientated. They repurposed it as an electric vehicle brand.
It's owned 50/50 with Geely, who are Volvos parent company.
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Shit stirrer.
Attention seeking guardian reading volvo driver :lol:
I'm OK with the 1st 2 but what's wrong with being a Volvo driver?
I'm not saying every volvo driver is this .
But all Liberal college professor types with patchy elbows drive volvos.
Not to mention those hyper annoying hipster types with man buns, who probably own a triumph bonneville too thinking they're cool.
Oh and architects with man buns also drive volvos, before they roll naked in the snow with their inlaws .
That said, the old T5R was a very cool car . But obviously lost on those with said patchy elbows and man buns .
:lol:
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He we go again.
Exceptional heat and forest fires in Turkey. Most of the Med is sweltering and on alert for fire.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/30/turkish-fires-sweeping-through-tourist-areas-are-the-hottest-on-record
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He we go again.
Exceptional heat and forest fires in Turkey. Most of the Med is sweltering and on alert for fire.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/30/turkish-fires-sweeping-through-tourist-areas-are-the-hottest-on-record
Anyone would have thought it was summer ? ! :lol:
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There's no way you're not a WUM. Absolutely clueless on everything you post about.
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There's no way you're not a WUM. Absolutely clueless on everything you post about.
Oh dear, are we a bit cranky ?
Is it time for your kale porridge and skinny latte ?
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There's no way you're not a WUM. Absolutely clueless on everything you post about.
Oh dear, are we a bit cranky ?
Is it time for your kale porridge and skinny latte ?
Looks like you hit the mark Janso
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:lol:
There's no way you're not a WUM. Absolutely clueless on everything you post about.
Oh dear, are we a bit cranky ?
Is it time for your kale porridge and skinny latte ?
Looks like you hit the mark Janso
:lol:
I guess you haven't had your avocado on toast yet ? Or has the guardian not been delivered yet ? :lol:
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:lol:There's no way you're not a WUM. Absolutely clueless on everything you post about.
Oh dear, are we a bit cranky ?
Is it time for your kale porridge and skinny latte ?
Looks like you hit the mark Janso
:lol:
I guess you haven't had your avocado on toast yet ? Or has the guardian not been delivered yet ? :lol:
Wrong again, just finished a pizza and now halfway down the label of a very good shiraz.
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Isn't it annoying when regular WUM posters leave the forum because they have been found out - and then rejoin again under another name...
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There's no way you're not a WUM. Absolutely clueless on everything you post about.
Oh dear, are we a bit cranky ?
Is it time for your kale porridge and skinny latte ?
Get a life you sad act.
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:lol:There's no way you're not a WUM. Absolutely clueless on everything you post about.
Oh dear, are we a bit cranky ?
Is it time for your kale porridge and skinny latte ?
Looks like you hit the mark Janso
:lol:
I guess you haven't had your avocado on toast yet ? Or has the guardian not been delivered yet ? :lol:
Wrong again, just finished a pizza and now halfway down the label of a very good shiraz.
:lol:
Deffo a hawaian
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There's no way you're not a WUM. Absolutely clueless on everything you post about.
Oh dear, are we a bit cranky ?
Is it time for your kale porridge and skinny latte ?
Get a life you sad act.
Oh dear :laugh:
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Isn't it annoying when regular WUM posters leave the forum because they have been found out - and then rejoin again under another name...
As long as that f*cking Iberian Red doesn't re-join again under another name.
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Speaking from experience a WUM should never change his handle,you need to be recognised like what I am.
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Speaking from experience a WUM should never change his handle,you need to be recognised like what I am.
Just like your leader that thinks he can fool most of the people all the time, ooops,
You think you needed to tell us selby next you'll be confessing to posting racist comments.
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A sobering video on YouTube entitled “Earth at 2° hotter will be horrific. Now here’s what 4° will look like. | David Wallace-Wells”
Interesting reference within it to the destabilisation of politics in Europe relating to refugees and migration from places like Syria. The author of the video suggests climate change would force 100’s of millions if not more people to vacate equatorial regions as they would simply become too hot to live in. He cites brexit being a by product of recent migration ( his words not mine). And claims that migration could be exponentially worse if the earth climate continues to heat up only by a few degrees.
And we may see this as soon as 2050.
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A sobering video on YouTube entitled “Earth at 2° hotter will be horrific. Now here’s what 4° will look like. | David Wallace-Wells”
Interesting reference within it to the destabilisation of politics in Europe relating to refugees and migration from places like Syria. The author of the video suggests climate change would force 100’s of millions if not more people to vacate equatorial regions as they would simply become too hot to live in. He cites brexit being a by product of recent migration ( his words not mine). And claims that migration could be exponentially worse if the earth climate continues to heat up only by a few degrees.
And we may see this as soon as 2050.
I think we already see this, people displaced by new harsh climate conditions simply head north looking for a new life in more prosperous regions. It will be difficult to gauge, so many flee war and oppression but its bound to be a factor.
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A sobering video on YouTube entitled “Earth at 2° hotter will be horrific. Now here’s what 4° will look like. | David Wallace-Wells”
Interesting reference within it to the destabilisation of politics in Europe relating to refugees and migration from places like Syria. The author of the video suggests climate change would force 100’s of millions if not more people to vacate equatorial regions as they would simply become too hot to live in. He cites brexit being a by product of recent migration ( his words not mine). And claims that migration could be exponentially worse if the earth climate continues to heat up only by a few degrees.
And we may see this as soon as 2050.
Well they can't come here. We can't build more housing as where would the water soak away to. Full up. Next.
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If just a tenth of what he speculates comes to fruition, we ain’t sen nothing yet.
Circa 1 million refugees has caused instability across all of mainland Europe and the uk. Multiply that by just 10, which is very very easy given his modelling, add into that less habitable land available due to sea level rises. It makes for an interesting future for our children and children’s children.
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Well the leader of the free world is on board.....
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I wonder if the yanks will ever ban the sale of new gas guzzlers. .?
They don’t really do small engined cars do they?
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I see Sicily has recorded Europe’s highest ever temp of 48.8 c. Smashing the previous record set in Athens in 1977.
I can’t imagine what this must be like. I’ve been in Southern Spain with Air temps of 40 c when it’s uncomfortable to breathe in air that warm. Another 9 degrees on top must be pretty rough.
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Well the leader of the free world is on board.....
This goes to the heart of the dilemma cheap oil means economic growth, expensive oil is still a massive drag on economic growth.
For politicians the answer is always go for growth.
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Well the leader of the free world is on board.....
This goes to the heart of the dilemma cheap oil means economic growth, expensive oil is still a massive drag on economic growth.
For politicians the answer is always go for growth.
Would that be all politicians RD.
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I see Sicily has recorded Europe’s highest ever temp of 48.8 c. Smashing the previous record set in Athens in 1977.
I can’t imagine what this must be like. I’ve been in Southern Spain with Air temps of 40 c when it’s uncomfortable to breathe in air that warm. Another 9 degrees on top must be pretty rough.
High temperatures in the Saudi lowlands ( Riyadh) are around 48C during the long summer, however in the high ground ( Taif) it’s about 41C ….104-106f but seems a lot cooler because of the altitude…
Perhaps the Muslim world should start looking after there brothers and sisters and not just watch them migrate towards the infidels in the west….
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I see Sicily has recorded Europe’s highest ever temp of 48.8 c. Smashing the previous record set in Athens in 1977.
I can’t imagine what this must be like. I’ve been in Southern Spain with Air temps of 40 c when it’s uncomfortable to breathe in air that warm. Another 9 degrees on top must be pretty rough.
High temperatures in the Saudi lowlands ( Riyadh) are around 48C during the long summer, however in the high ground ( Taif) it’s about 41C ….104-106f but seems a lot cooler because of the altitude…
Perhaps the Muslim world should start looking after there brothers and sisters and not just watch them migrate towards the infidels in the west….
Let’s hope so. As of last year the population of the 17 country Middle East region was 456 million. If it gets too hot for even them and just 1 % of them migrate North to cooler climes, that’s a 4.5 million person problem. If 10% decide it’s time to migrate, that the population of Spain.
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Well the leader of the free world is on board.....
This goes to the heart of the dilemma cheap oil means economic growth, expensive oil is still a massive drag on economic growth.
For politicians the answer is always go for growth.
Would that be all politicians RD.
I can't think of any politicians who don't target growth.
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Well,it looks like heat, no food, no clean water or sanitation and a few bombs chucked about doesn't stop them breading.
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Well the leader of the free world is on board.....
This goes to the heart of the dilemma cheap oil means economic growth, expensive oil is still a massive drag on economic growth.
For politicians the answer is always go for growth.
Would that be all politicians RD.
I can't think of any politicians who don't target growth.
Some posters on here would certainly disagree with that mate.
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Well the leader of the free world is on board.....
This goes to the heart of the dilemma cheap oil means economic growth, expensive oil is still a massive drag on economic growth.
For politicians the answer is always go for growth.
Would that be all politicians RD.
I can't think of any politicians who don't target growth.
Some posters on here would certainly disagree with that mate.
Well the only politicians who might think different will be Greens but even they don't say they don't believe in growth.
I'd be surprised anyone is going to disagree.
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Well,it looks like heat, no food, no clean water or sanitation and a few bombs chucked about doesn't stop them breading.
I’m assuming you mean breeding, as opposed to mixing flour and water?
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RD.
A word pal. Hound, for some reason, is having one of his "Who? Me?" attacks and having a pop at me. You are wasting your breath.
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Yes
Anyway
According to this estimate we have just four years left to act.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/aug/12/greenhouse-gas-emissions-must-peak-within-4-years-says-leaked-un-report
This at a time when apparently Bidens government is urging Saudis to release a load of cheap oil on to the market.
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RD.
A word pal. Hound, for some reason, is having one of his "Who? Me?" attacks and having a pop at me. You are wasting your breath.
Rubbish BST and you know it.
I have only, in your words, havd a pop at you, because of your totally abhorrent comment about drug dealing being a minor crime.
My comment on this thread includes numerous posters who might argue to suggest that those nasty Tory politicians might be more interested in themselves rather than growth.
It isn’t all about you.
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Well,it looks like heat, no food, no clean water or sanitation and a few bombs chucked about doesn't stop them breading.
I didn't know there were many Warburtons in The Middle East they're all interbread
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RD.
A word pal. Hound, for some reason, is having one of his "Who? Me?" attacks and having a pop at me. You are wasting your breath.
Rubbish BST and you know it.
I have only, in your words, havd a pop at you, because of your totally abhorrent comment about drug dealing being a minor crime.
My comment on this thread includes numerous posters who might argue to suggest that those nasty Tory politicians might be more interested in themselves rather than growth.
It isn’t all about you.
Aye, like I said "Who? Me?" mode.
As for my abhorrent comment, you and your mate BB have not once sat down and considered the context or in fact the very words I said.
My point about it being "minor" was connected to the sort of sentences it attracts. It was making a point about the gross disproportionately of deporting someone brought up in this country whose only crime was committed at 17 and deemed worthy of seven months inside.
I shouldn't be surprised at your insistence, always, of ignoring the whole bloody point in your crusade to stick the boot in. But I regularly am.
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I see you've managed to con one of your disciples into believing your attempt at backtracking on your absurd comment already!
Strange though that your claims of your statement being misrepresented in context won't disgust you enough to show empathy towards any Tory MP's whose statements you will misrepresent in the context in future.
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Yes
Anyway
According to this estimate we have just four years left to act.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/aug/12/greenhouse-gas-emissions-must-peak-within-4-years-says-leaked-un-report
This at a time when apparently Bidens government is urging Saudis to release a load of cheap oil on to the market.
I reckon we are past the point of no return. As has been alluded to, all this talk and the Americans are applying pressure for oil to be cheaper.
It will be damage limitation and learning how to survive over the coming hundreds of years. And while none of us on here will live to see the outcomes, it’s a sobering thought.
Still, in a few tens of thousands of years there will be another ice age and the world will reset itself. Whether humans will last that long remains to be seen.
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I see you've managed to con one of your disciples into believing your attempt at backtracking on your absurd comment already!
Strange though that your claims of your statement being misrepresented in context won't disgust you enough to show empathy towards any Tory MP's whose statements you will misrepresent in the context in future.
I'm not backtracking anything. I agree that drug dealing should result in prison sentences. I further believe that the legal system treats that as a minor imprisonable offence, compared to offences of say, sexual assault or other serious violence. I also believe that it is grossly disproportionate to illegally attempt to deport someone who has lived in the UK for 90% of his life and served a 7 month sentence for a crime committed when he was 17. I note that both Johnson, and Gove when admitting their own criminal behaviour as young men, claimed that we should give young people who make mistakes a chance to pull themselves round. I fully support that idea although I don't get why that applies to them personally and not the people they are trying to illegally deport.
If you have issues with any of that, feel free to respond on the relevant thread. If not, take a bit of advice and belt up before you make yourself look even more stupidly vindictive.
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The maximum sentences for intent to supply drugs are:
up to life in prison, an unlimited fine or both for a Class A drug
up to 14 years in prison, an unlimited fine or both for a Class B or Class C drug
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Yes but in the specific case I'm referring to, we are not talking about an offence anywhere near the top end of that scale. Which is why the lad was given a 15 month stretch, of which he served 7 months.
So the question remains. Do YOU think it is disproportionate in that case (given that the lad had been in the UK since he was a bairn, given that this was his one and only offence, given that he committed it when he was 17, given that he'd kept his nose clean for several years after getting out of nick) to try to deport him? Even before you get the point that Patel was breaking her own law in deporting him, and was only stopped from doing so because of pro bono work by lawyers.
Do YOU think that is wrong. If you DO, what the f**k are you arguing about. If you don't you need to spend a bit of time examining your conscience.
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Tell me more. What is this lads name and when was he deported?
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Yes but in the specific case I'm referring to, we are not talking about an offence anywhere near the top end of that scale. Which is why the lad was given a 15 month stretch, of which he served 7 months.
So the question remains. Do YOU think it is disproportionate in that case (given that the lad had been in the UK since he was a bairn, given that this was his one and only offence, given that he committed it when he was 17, given that he'd kept his nose clean for several years after getting out of nick) to try to deport him? Even before you get the point that Patel was breaking her own law in deporting him, and was only stopped from doing so because of pro bono work by lawyers.
Do YOU think that is wrong. If you DO, what the f**k are you arguing about. If you don't you need to spend a bit of time examining your conscience.
You are doing what you do best BST, changing the narrative to suit your case.
In your original post about this you said that SOME of the people due to be deported were for crimes as little as drug dealing.
You have now changed that to one individual person in an attempt turn the argument round.
No surprise there then.
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Tell me more. What is this lads name and when was he deported?
Tajay Thompson. Look him up. And here's a couple of corrections from me.
1) He came to the UK at 5 years old, not 2 as I said before.
2) Ha was convicted at 17 of possession with intent to supply class A drugs, not class C as I'd said before. The prison sentence was as I said, 15 months, 7 served.
He wasn't deported in the end. Pro bono lawyers secured his release from the deportation scheme at the 11th hour. Patel responded by putting out a spiteful Home Office video noting that she was fighting against "activist lawyers". That in an atmosphere where the police were breaking up online pans to physically assault some of the lawyers.
The lad was released i 2016 and to kept his nose clean until he was arrested in 2020 and told he was being deported for the crime that he'd already served time for.
And although I really SHOULDN'T have to say this, I clearly do when you get going. I am NOT belittling class A drug dealing. I hate it and I'm happy to see both dealers and those who provide the market for them do the time they deserve.
While you are at it, look into a few other cases that the psychopath in the Home Office wanted to deport. Here's one. You can find plenty more at your leisure.
Reshawn Davis. 30 years old. Lived in the UK since he was 11. Arrested and told he would be deported in 10 days, for a crime he committed 10 years previously, for which he served 2 months, and for which it would now not be legal to prosecute him ("Joint enterprises"). Committed no crimes since leaving prison. Has a 6 year long marriage and a kid.
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Yes but in the specific case I'm referring to, we are not talking about an offence anywhere near the top end of that scale. Which is why the lad was given a 15 month stretch, of which he served 7 months.
So the question remains. Do YOU think it is disproportionate in that case (given that the lad had been in the UK since he was a bairn, given that this was his one and only offence, given that he committed it when he was 17, given that he'd kept his nose clean for several years after getting out of nick) to try to deport him? Even before you get the point that Patel was breaking her own law in deporting him, and was only stopped from doing so because of pro bono work by lawyers.
Do YOU think that is wrong. If you DO, what the f**k are you arguing about. If you don't you need to spend a bit of time examining your conscience.
You are doing what you do best BST, changing the narrative to suit your case.
In your original post about this you said that SOME of the people due to be deported were for crimes as little as drug dealing.
You have now changed that to one individual person in an attempt turn the argument round.
No surprise there then.
Hound
I tell you what, how about you stop asking me to wipe your arse, and go an look up some of the information yourself.
There are PLENTY of examples of people being arrested for deportation after conviction for drug dealing. Tajay Thompson's case is the most striking, given that he came to the UK as a kid, committed the crime at 17 and kept his nose clean for 4 years after that until Patel decided that she wanted him out. You don't seem to give a f**k about that so I'm not really sure what else I can do to persuade you. Perhaps you can step down from your snide insinuations of bad faith in what I'm posting (which you usually drag up at some point) and go and look up the information yourself. And then come back and tell us what YOU think, eh?
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Yes but in the specific case I'm referring to, we are not talking about an offence anywhere near the top end of that scale. Which is why the lad was given a 15 month stretch, of which he served 7 months.
So the question remains. Do YOU think it is disproportionate in that case (given that the lad had been in the UK since he was a bairn, given that this was his one and only offence, given that he committed it when he was 17, given that he'd kept his nose clean for several years after getting out of nick) to try to deport him? Even before you get the point that Patel was breaking her own law in deporting him, and was only stopped from doing so because of pro bono work by lawyers.
Do YOU think that is wrong. If you DO, what the f**k are you arguing about. If you don't you need to spend a bit of time examining your conscience.
You are doing what you do best BST, changing the narrative to suit your case.
In your original post about this you said that SOME of the people due to be deported were for crimes as little as drug dealing.
You have now changed that to one individual person in an attempt turn the argument round.
No surprise there then.
Hound
I tell you what, how about you stop asking me to wipe your arse, and go an look up some of the information yourself.
There are PLENTY of examples of people being arrested for deportation after conviction for drug dealing. Tajay Thompson's case is the most striking, given that he came to the UK as a kid, committed the crime at 17 and kept his nose clean for 4 years after that until Patel decided that she wanted him out. You don't seem to give a f**k about that so I'm not really sure what else I can do to persuade you. Perhaps you can step down from your snide insinuations of bad faith in what I'm posting (which you usually drag up at some point) and go and look up the information yourself. And then come back and tell us what YOU think, eh?
BST, I don’t want you anywhere near my arse thank you.
I also don’t give a monkeys about looking up the information on who was to be deported and in reality I don’t need to because you will be doing it anyway.
In simple terms, just so that you fully understand, I am only debating the facts that you clearly originally suggested that drug dealing was a minor crime and it has taken you a day to admit that it actually isn’t.
And secondly that you have changed your little rant from saying that some of the people were set to be deported and today have changed your narrative to one individual to back your silly claim up.
Now will you stop trolling my posts, as you were constantly doing before your “holiday”.
There’s a good lad.
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BST, where did you get your original (flawed) figures from, and why should I accept your new 'corrected' story as gospel? Besides that, even if your amended story is true, don't you think his sentence was somewhat lenient compared to the fate he would have been dealt in some other countries?
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You are beneath contempt Hound.
Every single time we have a difference of opinion it comes to this. You claiming that I am deliberately trying to deceive. Every single time you are wrong. Every single time you just rinse and repeat. You have no intention of ever discussing anything substantive. You just stand at the side chucking you snide insults.
What people do you normally deal with on a day to day basis that has given you this obsession with reading the very worst implications into the opinions of someone you've never met, and a refusal to accept that they might actually be being honest? I haven't changed ANYTHING in my discussion of this. I said SOME of the people racked up for deportation by Patel were "minor" criminals, by which I meant they had served relatively short sentences. You, doing what you always do, frame that as a moral outrage that I am belittling drug dealing. I gave ONE example originally because it is the most egregious. I've just given another one to BB which you seem blissfully unaware of.
You COULD go and look up Damion Thompson. Howard Ormsby. The unnamed bloke from this week's deportation list who served a short sentence for possession with intent 10 years ago and has never committed a crime since, before Patel had him picked up last week. But of course you won't. Because you have no interest in anyof that. You just want to convince yourself I'm the sort of Kitson you want me to be.
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BB. I confused two cases while I was reading stuff quickly between jobs at work. I've corrected it. The main points (him coming to the UK as a young kid and serving a 7 month stretch for something he did as a 17 year old) are right. But of course I don't expect YOU to believe anything I ever write. You're the Waldorf to Hound's Stadler. Offering nothing but jaundiced, snide observations at other people's expense.
If you're interested in Tajay Thompson, go and put your big boy pants on and look it up yourself.
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BST, my last word on this.
I don’t have to prove anything, everything I have said about the drug dealing thing is there to be read, if anyone is interested, which I very much doubt.
You clearly have changed your position from the original post.
If you don’t want to be corrected then please put what you really think rather than something vague, with the intent of upping your hatred of all things government.
You DID say that some people were set for deportation for minor offences such as drug dealing, not what you are now claiming to have said.
If you decide to change your story, that’s fine, but have the balls to admit that you have.
Also, if you don’t want to read what I write you could always block me, as you have allegedly done with Belton.
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Hound. My last word also and apologies to everyone for this going so badly off topic.
I did NOT change ANYTHING in my story.
I said SOME people were being lined up for deportation because of drug dealing. SOME were.
I said that the cases were for crimes "as minor as" drug dealing. If you take your "Oooh! Outrageous! BST condoning drug dealing!" head off for a moment and think what that sentence says, it is f**king obvious. I'm using it as a relative assessment. The courts consider drug dealing on the scale that we are talking about to be a minor crime RELATIVE TO things like rape or stoving someone's head in. THAT was what I meant. But because you have this obsession with reading the very worst interpretation into everything I say, you process that as me belittling drug dealing as a crime and then back pedalling when you and you pal wade in.
I truly cannot understand what drives that obsession.
I WILL now block you because this isn't particularly healthy for anyone. I don't particularly like blocking anyone, because I am a big believer in robust, exchanges of opinion between people with different views. But it is very rare I ever experience that with you. By the way, what you mean by "allegedly" I have no idea, but I'm sure it makes some sort of sense to you.
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Thank goodness for that, no more being trolled by bst.
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BST, What is patently obvious is that you only deal in jaundiced, snide anti-government observations. You only deal in stories that tell of government failures because they are most probably the only stories you search for or at least only report on.
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Climate change wasn't it?
Globally this was the hottest July ever recorded. The hottest of the warmest month of the year modern humanity has experienced.
Burn baby burn.
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BST, What is patently obvious is that you only deal in jaundiced, snide anti-government observations. You only deal in stories that tell of government failures because they are most probably the only stories you search for or at least only report on.
Maybe as head of the tory boys fan club you should be posting the good news stories about how well the government have implemented brexit, the numbers of trade deals they have signed, how well manufacturing is going and any other number of key indicators of a growing economy. You could wax lyrical about the how well the relations are going in the Irish border regions and how brexit has had a positive effect on the movement of goods in the region. When you start doing your job properly you may then be entitled to dictate what others on the forum should comment on, no?
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After the fire the flood.
The worst anyone in the region have ever seen, again.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/13/turkey-flood-deaths-rise-fresh-fires-erupt-greek-island-evia
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And we are about to open up a new olifield, jesus wept:
https://www.energyvoice.com/oilandgas/north-sea/west-of-shetland/341269/boris-johnson-insists-cambo-field-contracts-cannot-be-torn-up/
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Climate change wasn't it?
Globally this was the hottest July ever recorded. The hottest of the warmest month of the year modern humanity has experienced.
Burn baby burn.
How come we only got a handful of warm days……….. it’s not fair…in 50 years time whilst half the world burns under sweltering sun’s, and the other half has to learn how to swim….we will still be wishing for a bit of a nice summer…
Now’s a good time to look at investment potential , whether it’s dinghy’s or portable cooler boxes
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Climate change wasn't it?
Globally this was the hottest July ever recorded. The hottest of the warmest month of the year modern humanity has experienced.
Burn baby burn.
We've been in denial about this for over a century.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Rainmaker1973/status/1426502611109359616
We need massive changes of policy now to avert disaster. Depressingly, the politicians and newspapers that brought you Brexit and the anti-lockdown arguments are now setting themselves to oppose net zero carbon. This is their next Culture War battlefield. They would literally prefer the planet to burn than miss a chance to bait the Left.
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Another day, another extreme flooding event. This one is affecting a couple of cities and over a million people.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/14/million-urged-to-seek-shelter-as-floods-and-landslides-hit-japan
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Climate change wasn't it?
Globally this was the hottest July ever recorded. The hottest of the warmest month of the year modern humanity has experienced.
Burn baby burn.
How come we only got a handful of warm days……….. it’s not fair…in 50 years time whilst half the world burns under sweltering sun’s, and the other half has to learn how to swim….we will still be wishing for a bit of a nice summer…
Now’s a good time to look at investment potential , whether it’s dinghy’s or portable cooler boxes
It must just be me then. I thought we were having another really warm summer. I've been in t-shirts and shorts for weeks.
What is noticeable to me is the grey days are warm, between 65 and 75°F.
I remember summers when overcast skies meant there could be a chill in the air, even in July. That doesn't happen anymore.
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Climate change wasn't it?
Globally this was the hottest July ever recorded. The hottest of the warmest month of the year modern humanity has experienced.
Burn baby burn.
We've been in denial about this for over a century.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Rainmaker1973/status/1426502611109359616
We need massive changes of policy now to avert disaster. Depressingly, the politicians and newspapers that brought you Brexit and the anti-lockdown arguments are now setting themselves to oppose net zero carbon. This is their next Culture War battlefield. They would literally prefer the planet to burn than miss a chance to bait the Left.
Contrary to the people who never miss a chance to bait anyone who isnt on the side of the Left.
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Climate change wasn't it?
Globally this was the hottest July ever recorded. The hottest of the warmest month of the year modern humanity has experienced.
Burn baby burn.
How come we only got a handful of warm days……….. it’s not fair…in 50 years time whilst half the world burns under sweltering sun’s, and the other half has to learn how to swim….we will still be wishing for a bit of a nice summer…
Now’s a good time to look at investment potential , whether it’s dinghy’s or portable cooler boxes
It must just be me then. I thought we were having another really warm summer. I've been in t-shirts and shorts for weeks.
What is noticeable to me is the grey days are warm, between 65 and 75°F.
I remember summers when overcast skies meant there could be a chill in the air, even in July. That doesn't happen anymore.
Me too RD.
Since April there has only been one day that i havent been dressed in shorts and tee shirts.
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Speaking from experience a WUM should never change his handle,you need to be recognised like what I am.
You're many things my friend, but you're certainly not a WUM. Recognised, yes, WUM, no.
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Food for thought?
Total fuel consumption of U.S. airlines is approximately 19 billion gallons annually.
Total fuel consumption for mining Ore for construction of electric car batteries is approximately 21 billion gallons annually.
The 21 billion gallons of fuel burned can only produce enough Ore to build 250,000 electric car batteries.
The lifespan of an electric battery is 10 years and is not renewable. By 2050 these batteries will fill landfills with 50 million pounds of waste that does not break down.
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.....and there probably still wont be enough charging points either.
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The global emergency requires a new politics, but it is nowhere in sight. Governments still fear lobby groups more than they fear the collapse of our living systems.
That gets right to the heart of the matter.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/19/life-earth-second-place-fossil-fuel-climate-breakdown
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Another step in the right direction
''‘Green steel’: Swedish company ships first batch made without using coal
Hybrit sends steel made with hydrogen production process to Volvo, which plans to use it in prototype vehicles and components''
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/aug/19/green-steel-swedish-company-ships-first-batch-made-without-using-coal
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Get ready to pay for it though. Early assessments of production price of full-scale hydrogen-based direct reduction indicates a 20%– 30% higher cost compared with conventional steel production.
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sorry guys, another interesting clip from the paper
''Climate crisis made deadly German floods ‘up to nine times more likely’
Study reinforces the hard evidence that carbon emissions are the main cause of worsening extreme weather''
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/aug/23/climate-crisis-made-deadly-german-floods-up-to-nine-times-more-likely
It's good to see scientists are making direct links between the changing weather patterns and man made causes.
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Food for thought?
Total fuel consumption of U.S. airlines is approximately 19 billion gallons annually.
Total fuel consumption for mining Ore for construction of electric car batteries is approximately 21 billion gallons annually.
The 21 billion gallons of fuel burned can only produce enough Ore to build 250,000 electric car batteries.
The lifespan of an electric battery is 10 years and is not renewable. By 2050 these batteries will fill landfills with 50 million pounds of waste that does not break down.
Talking sense on here will get you nowhere. I'm still waiting for people's thoughts on little kids being used mining in Congo for cobalt.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jan/03/child-labour-toxic-leaks-the-price-we-could-pay-for-a-greener-future
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https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2021/aug/30/hurricane-ida-2021-live-update-louisiana-storm-hits-new-orleans-path-tracker-mississippi-river-latest-updates
Ida, major disaster.
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https://www.theguardian.com/weather/video/2021/sep/02/hurricane-ida-flash-floods-cause-chaos-in-new-york-video
Some impressive footage of the flas floods in New York City
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And when the waters subside, they will all jump straight back in their v8 gas guzzlers.
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Food for thought?
Total fuel consumption of U.S. airlines is approximately 19 billion gallons annually.
Total fuel consumption for mining Ore for construction of electric car batteries is approximately 21 billion gallons annually.
The 21 billion gallons of fuel burned can only produce enough Ore to build 250,000 electric car batteries.
The lifespan of an electric battery is 10 years and is not renewable. By 2050 these batteries will fill landfills with 50 million pounds of waste that does not break down.
Talking sense on here will get you nowhere. I'm still waiting for people's thoughts on little kids being used mining in Congo for cobalt.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jan/03/child-labour-toxic-leaks-the-price-we-could-pay-for-a-greener-future
Lolololol
Don’t let a real story get in the way of stat gathering….
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It might be an expensive winter, there are fears Russia is limiting its natural gas supply into Europe to push prices higher...
In theory this should provide incentive for a greater shift towards renewables but will it in practice?
I see in here in the UK on still hot days we are still having to fire up the Ratcliffe on Soar coal fired powerstation. Apparently this happened again today. We're not weaned off coal yet then.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/aug/12/national-grid-fires-up-coal-power-station-for-first-time-in-55-days
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And RD as the world warms and traditionally colder countries have to use aircon ..........
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It might be an expensive winter, there are fears Russia is limiting its natural gas supply into Europe to push prices higher...
In theory this should provide incentive for a greater shift towards renewables but will it in practice?
I see in here in the UK on still hot days we are still having to fire up the Ratcliffe on Soar coal fired powerstation. Apparently this happened again today. We're not weaned off coal yet then.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/aug/12/national-grid-fires-up-coal-power-station-for-first-time-in-55-days
Yet all we do is antagonize Russia. Why can't we get on with them?
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Leger week and it's 80°+ this afternoon.
Weird.
I saw a supermarket manager pop his head out at Tesco. He said in genuine surprise to no-one in particular "bloody hell! It's like being abroad!
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Leger week and it's 80°+ this afternoon.
Weird.
I saw a supermarket manager pop his head out at Tesco. He said in genuine surprise to no-one in particular "bloody hell! It's like being abroad!
Firstly, was the supermarket manager you saw just any old supermarket manager or did he perhaps work for tesco?
And secondly, how did you hear him make that quote and assume it wasn’t meant for you?
And finally, was this supermarket in the UK or abroard?
These are the real questions that need answering on a sweltering afternoon during ledger week!
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Leger week and it's 80°+ this afternoon.
Weird.
I saw a supermarket manager pop his head out at Tesco. He said in genuine surprise to no-one in particular "bloody hell! It's like being abroad!
Firstly, was the supermarket manager you saw just any old supermarket manager or did he perhaps work for tesco?
And secondly, how did you hear him make that quote and assume it wasn’t meant for you?
And finally, was this supermarket in the UK or abroard?
These are the real questions that need answering on a sweltering afternoon during ledger week!
For clarity, the bloke works in that particular Tesco store. He was within earshot but he wasn't close to me, others were nearer him. He wasn't directing his remarks towards anyone. The Tescos is in Yorkshire, Clifton Moor near York to be precise.
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That's a big un
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''UK criticised for ‘dropping Paris climate goals in trade deal with Australia’
UK-Australia deal also criticised for allowing import of beef produced to lower standards''
these new trade deals must have taken a lot of working out?
Undercutting local farmers, oops farmers are to get subsidies, so imported beef from Oz is subsidised by the british tax payers, whoopee.
And no pressure on Oz to do anything about it's appalling record regarding climate change.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/sep/08/uk-dropped-paris-climate-goals-in-trade-deal-with-australia-say-green-activists
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Leger week and it's 80°+ this afternoon.
Weird.
I saw a supermarket manager pop his head out at Tesco. He said in genuine surprise to no-one in particular "bloody hell! It's like being abroad!
Firstly, was the supermarket manager you saw just any old supermarket manager or did he perhaps work for tesco?
And secondly, how did you hear him make that quote and assume it wasn’t meant for you?
And finally, was this supermarket in the UK or abroard?
These are the real questions that need answering on a sweltering afternoon during ledger week!
For clarity, the bloke works in that particular Tesco store. He was within earshot but he wasn't close to me, others were nearer him. He wasn't directing his remarks towards anyone. The Tescos is in Yorkshire, Clifton Moor near York to be precise.
Hot Damn !
That made me look a right proper Charlie!….lol
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Serious question alert!
Is it really a “ climate crisis” from were you’re currently sat?
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Serious question alert!
Is it really a “ climate crisis” from were you’re currently sat?
Just because we don’t see it, doesn’t mean it’s not happening. It’s very subtle and difficult to relate to on a day by day or even year by year basis .
Over the past 100 years, global temperatures have risen about 1 degree C (1.8 degrees F), with sea level response to that warming totaling about 160 to 210 mm (with about half of that amount occurring since 1993), or about 6 to 8 inches.
In the uk, we only ever experience this change in the winter months when low pressure storms combine with high tides.
It’s going to be more frequent though.
Seems minor, but we take our dog to walk on the beach in between Skegness and Gibraltar point quite frequently, and have done so for the last 20 years. The change in the coast line there is dramatic. Tens of metres of coast have been washed away just in my time. It’s very evident to see when you have been going there year after year. This is not a stretch of coast that is naturally eroded.there are no coastal defences there like there is at chapel point or mabelthorpe. This is down to sea level rise and winter storms and high tides.
It is very gradual, but very apparent.
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Serious question alert!
Is it really a “ climate crisis” from were you’re currently sat?
Just because we don’t see it, doesn’t mean it’s not happening. It’s very subtle and difficult to relate to on a day by day or even year by year basis .
Over the past 100 years, global temperatures have risen about 1 degree C (1.8 degrees F), with sea level response to that warming totaling about 160 to 210 mm (with about half of that amount occurring since 1993), or about 6 to 8 inches.
In the uk, we only ever experience this change in the winter months when low pressure storms combine with high tides.
It’s going to be more frequent though.
Seems minor, but we take our dog to walk on the beach in between Skegness and Gibraltar point quite frequently, and have done so for the last 20 years. The change in the coast line there is dramatic. Tens of metres of coast have been washed away just in my time. It’s very evident to see when you have been going there year after year. This is not a stretch of coast that is naturally eroded.there are no coastal defences there like there is at chapel point or mabelthorpe. This is down to sea level rise and winter storms and high tides.
It is very gradual, but very apparent.
I get that statistics support a crisis, but in good old Blighty we love our occasional week of hot weather, we even like our milder winters, but we don’t need to worry what happens abroard unless it impacts on our holiday plans….
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If predictions are correct, holiday fave destinations like Benidorm, Venice and Barcelona will be under water in the next 100 years.
Doncaster by the sea anyone ?
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Serious question alert!
Is it really a “ climate crisis” from were you’re currently sat?
That's the thing with climate change the effects are mostly slow and gradual but then there are sudden extreme events too.
In the UK the extreme events tend to be rainfall or high winds. You might live in Toll Bar and keep finding water knee deep in your living room. That's happening more often. You might have the garage roof torn off in a storm, or your car damaged by large hail stones.
Most of the time it's easy to ignore. These problems are becoming more frequent though and more extreme. There was a guy on TV in Erftstadt-Blessem, where a sink hole opened and washed half the village away. You don't expect it here, in India maybe but not here.
So where from I'm sat right now, it's not a crisis. It's barely touched me personally beyond my trains to London being cancelled one day because of a Landslip on the line. And my Nan being evacuated because the River Don was getting very close to her front door.
Even then it's impossible to say these events were caused by climate change. Just that they were more likely because of it.
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What is coming is beyond most people's comprehension:
https://twitter.com/MrMatthewTodd/status/1440237998117822467
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What is coming is beyond most people's comprehension:
https://twitter.com/MrMatthewTodd/status/1440237998117822467
Our generation have been responsible for a crime against the future, in not taking this problem on seriously enough and quickly enough. Our great grandkids will rightly curse us as ignorant wasters, just like we curse the politicians who let Hitler off the leash 85 years ago.
The hired hands of the oil industry who have elbowed their way into debates for decades to argue that a) this wasn't happening, then b) that it was happening but it wasn't man made, then c) that even if it was man made, the action needed to stop it was too expensive ...they'll be called the biggest mass murderers in human history by future generations.
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I think you are referring to the cursing of the “authorities” ………….not us!, not me, not you!
Normal people do not make grand eco gestures, apart from a bit of domestic recycling…
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I think you are referring to the cursing of the “authorities” ………….not us!, not me, not you!
Normal people do not make grand eco gestures, apart from a bit of domestic recycling…
Maybe they don't shaggy but ordinary people carry the future in their hands, if they just stand around like sheep and don't push politicians to make the right decisions instead of political decisions they will.
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RD, if you go through Toll Bar and look carefully the water mark on the roadside older terrace houses is nearer the upstairs window, and my mate has a water mark in the loft of his old farm house in West Haddlesey marked up flood 17 something, its gone on for centuries. Askern was at the edges of the Humber inland sea, and the Dutch drained the lowlands in the Thorne area.
The thing is past generations managed it,invested in it, put time and effort into it, set up things like drainage boards with local management who knew what had to be done. Its what future generations will have to do and it remains to be seen if they will be up to it like our forefathers were.
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Syd, just heard some numbers of coal fired power stations in China, according to the report they have 1089 currently operating another 189 are in the construction stage and 450 in the planning stage.
Most of the new and planned ones as big or bigger than Drax, and America has plans to expand their oil shale and fracking operations while we closed our fracking down two years ago, if the heating goes off in Jan/Feb that will go down as a great idea unless you can switch over to coal that is, some open fires might be opened back up.
I guess there is some pissing into the wind in this country.
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What is China's emissions target?
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Look it up I'm not bothered.
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Look it up I'm not bothered.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1kT4u_D5PA
Net zero by 2060
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they are kidding you on.
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A giant leap for football, a giant leap for mankind.
''Forest Green Rovers flash up climate emergency warnings during match''
''Forest Green Rovers have brought the climate and ecological crisis into sharp focus by taking the unprecedented step of using their pitchside advertising hoardings to display real-time facts and figures about fossil fuels, plastic waste, and other critical issues during their League Two game at home to Swindon. The match, televised by Sky Sports, was broadcast across 120 countries''
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/oct/09/forest-green-rovers-flash-up-climate-emergency-warnings-during-match
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I like what Forest Green Rovers are doing in terms of the green way they run the club and actually offering fans actual nutritious wholesome, locally sourced food to eat at games rather than the generic grease in a breadcake / in pastry or a chocolate bar that is provided by all other clubs to fans whose palates haven't evolved over their many years of attending football matches.
The animal slaughter numbers is a great reminder too that needless cruelty still pervades the farming industry.
In terms of a football ownership model, they are a basket case. Dale Vince has pumped millions in and at any point if he pulls out, the club is simply unsustainable financially. I would imagine it would cost Vince a hell of a lot of money to leave the club free from any debt. I'm not saying he wouldn't do this of course but it must be an expensive club to run for such a small club with minimal revenues from supporters etc.
It certainly is an interesting story that continues to unfold down in deepest Gloucestershire.
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https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/10/13/insulate-britain-is-in-bed-with-the-establishment/
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The South Pole has just endured the darkest and coldest winter for years, temps -69C and thehttps://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2021/10/01/south-pole-coldest-winter-record/ area of sea ice is massive compared with the last few years.
Right. That's a relief. Clearly the increases in temperature everywhere else in the world over the last century are nothing to worry about. Just a lefty plot to piss off old folk.
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It's a bit rich, well very rich really down at the palace ....................
ere charlie, ave you sorted that cowardly ozzie PM out yet?
doin' it mummy ........... I ope you ain't forgot ta ave a go at the world leaders
yeah done it .................. easy-peasy
some months earlier .....................
''Queen secretly lobbied Scottish ministers for climate law exemption
Monarch used secretive procedure to become only person in country not bound by a green energy rule''
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jul/28/queen-secretly-lobbied-scottish-ministers-climate-law-exemption
and charlie ....... Charlie ....... CHARLIE ......... yeeeeeees mummy
get yerself round dere and give them guardian tw@ts a good kickin'
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Now it looks like Carrie, i mean Boris, is wanting to ban all gas boilers by 2035! Should be surge in sales in 2034.
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Man Utd squad has FLOWN from Manchester to Leicester for today's match.
What an example of the irresponsible disconnection from societal responsibility of the wealthiest.
Absolutely f**king disgusting.
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Taken from the bbc sport website:
“Manchester United have defended their decision to fly the 100-mile journey to their Premier League game at Leicester.
United say they would not normally fly to the game but plans changed due to "circumstances". There were reports of traffic congestion on the M6.
Flying is a significant contributor to global warming and world leaders are meeting later this month in an attempt to avoid a climate catastrophe.
Manchester United defended its commitment to clean energy.”
That is their version of events I suppose.
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Now it looks like Carrie, i mean Boris, is wanting to ban all gas boilers by 2035! Should be surge in sales in 2034.
This is putting the cart before the horse.
Heat pumps aren't effective unless the property is very well insulated. Putting heat pumps in the UKs cold houses instead of gas boilers won't be very effective.
Instead of subsidising heat pumps and banning gas boilers, the effort should be going into insulation.
And they need to tighten up standards in house building now. We're still building properties with gas boilers today, when they could be laying ground heat source pipes and insulating to German standards.
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Now it looks like Carrie, i mean Boris, is wanting to ban all gas boilers by 2035! Should be surge in sales in 2034.
This is putting the cart before the horse.
Heat pumps aren't effective unless the property is very well insulated. Putting heat pumps in the UKs cold houses instead of gas boilers won't be very effective.
Instead of subsidising heat pumps and banning gas boilers, the effort should be going into insulation.
And they need to tighten up standards in house building now. We're still building properties with gas boilers today, when they could be laying ground heat source pipes and insulating to German standards.
It's not quite the case though.
The industry is committed to alternatives to gas boilers, and the next step will be a gas/hydrogen mixture followed by a full conversion to hydrogen.
Heat pumps are not the main choice as an alternative either. Heat pumps will play a part but we are seeing multiple sources and choices, mostly around heat pumps, solar, and a strong reliance on central boiler plant or district energy schemes with single family homes getting their hot water for heating and DHW through Heat Interface Units (HIU's).
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Now it looks like Carrie, i mean Boris, is wanting to ban all gas boilers by 2035! Should be surge in sales in 2034.
This is putting the cart before the horse.
Heat pumps aren't effective unless the property is very well insulated. Putting heat pumps in the UKs cold houses instead of gas boilers won't be very effective.
Instead of subsidising heat pumps and banning gas boilers, the effort should be going into insulation.
And they need to tighten up standards in house building now. We're still building properties with gas boilers today, when they could be laying ground heat source pipes and insulating to German standards.
It's not quite the case though.
The industry is committed to alternatives to gas boilers, and the next step will be a gas/hydrogen mixture followed by a full conversion to hydrogen.
Heat pumps are not the main choice as an alternative either. Heat pumps will play a part but we are seeing multiple sources and choices, mostly around heat pumps, solar, and a strong reliance on central boiler plant or district energy schemes with single family homes getting their hot water for heating and DHW through Heat Interface Units (HIU's).
I accept all of that SM but Johnson is promising a £5,000 grant to replace a gas boiler with a heat pump.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/10/14/households-pushed-scrap-gas-boilers-5000-grant/
Whatever heating solution we go for, improving home insulation has to be the best start. For me that's where the investment should be going.
Edit. On second reading that DT article is a bit misleading, it focuses on heat pumps. It might include other 'green' options.
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The grant is only good for about 67000 units. Which won’t go very far will it ?
On the subject of external heat pumps. A local plumber who has done a course to install these say that they are prone to freezing up if the weather drops below zero. And then they fail, big time. So they have to be built inside something frost proof.
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Now it looks like Carrie, i mean Boris, is wanting to ban all gas boilers by 2035! Should be surge in sales in 2034.
This is putting the cart before the horse.
Heat pumps aren't effective unless the property is very well insulated. Putting heat pumps in the UKs cold houses instead of gas boilers won't be very effective.
Instead of subsidising heat pumps and banning gas boilers, the effort should be going into insulation.
And they need to tighten up standards in house building now. We're still building properties with gas boilers today, when they could be laying ground heat source pipes and insulating to German standards.
It's not quite the case though.
The industry is committed to alternatives to gas boilers, and the next step will be a gas/hydrogen mixture followed by a full conversion to hydrogen.
Heat pumps are not the main choice as an alternative either. Heat pumps will play a part but we are seeing multiple sources and choices, mostly around heat pumps, solar, and a strong reliance on central boiler plant or district energy schemes with single family homes getting their hot water for heating and DHW through Heat Interface Units (HIU's).
I accept all of that SM but Johnson is promising a £5,000 grant to replace a gas boiler with a heat pump.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/10/14/households-pushed-scrap-gas-boilers-5000-grant/
Whatever heating solution we go for, improving home insulation has to be the best start. For me that's where the investment should be going.
Edit. On second reading that DT article is a bit misleading, it focuses on heat pumps. It might include other 'green' options.
Got to agree with insulating, a bit like decorating the house with a leaky roof.
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It is not possible to use hydrogen as a replacement for gas with the current infrastructure.
All pipework would need to be replaced.
A low percentage blend is possible, but to meet climate goals it would need to be green hydrogen from renewable sources. The development of green hydrogen production will happen, but not at scale until some years hence.
Hydrogen is unsuited to domestic heating and vehicles, where electrification offers greater payload. For home heating electric via heat pumps gives 400% efficiency, so where it is viable it is the best option.
For new build, ground source where possible, air source if not, should be the default.
Insulation is a fundamental, irrespective of the type of heat provided.
Very disappointing strategy in total, far from what is needed.
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It’s been some 15 years ago, but I worked for a company upgrading boilers in power stations to take biomass. The ones dotted around Doncaster were all supposed to run on coal, but after the demise of the coal industry and cheap Poor quality coal being used it caused havoc with efficiency of power station boilers. All of them were retrofitted to burn oil and gas, in the 90’s as well as coal. We then added biomass to the mix, we trialed at eggborough but the project never got off the ground. Drax did years later. What I dont understand is why we are not just going back to oil in power stations, not great for the climate but surely would atleast make electricity production.more affordable than relying on gas while the prices are so high. What a shame someone couldn’t come up with a carbon capture technology for us to use the coal beneath our feet with little of the down sides. Oh that’s right we did, and South Korea we’re willing to fund it in our own town, but the torys we’re too busy courting the Chinese to build a nuclear power station. Still boils my blood, 8-9 years on
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How much does Robert Peston get paid?
To write shite like this?
https://mobile.twitter.com/Peston/status/1450448339179352066
Ooh! Ooh! How awful it could be if we found a cure for cancer and all the taxes that we get from companies that make radiotherapy equipment would be lost!
How did we survive the end of WWII when we lost all the taxes from people who had been making Spitfires for the past 6 years?
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I suppose all the Spitfire builders just built different planes.
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It is not possible to use hydrogen as a replacement for gas with the current infrastructure.
All pipework would need to be replaced.
A low percentage blend is possible, but to meet climate goals it would need to be green hydrogen from renewable sources. The development of green hydrogen production will happen, but not at scale until some years hence.
Hydrogen is unsuited to domestic heating and vehicles, where electrification offers greater payload. For home heating electric via heat pumps gives 400% efficiency, so where it is viable it is the best option.
For new build, ground source where possible, air source if not, should be the default.
Insulation is a fundamental, irrespective of the type of heat provided.
Very disappointing strategy in total, far from what is needed.
These are the answers to most of the problems on a domestic level, combined with solar panels and batteries where possible.
Yes it will cost more but never more than what climate change is causing via flood and storm damage and much worse is to come.
My brother live in a typical central terrace house built maybe around 1910 he put insulation in between the ceiling beams and then run another lot over the top the other way. Voila! warm house.
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It is not possible to use hydrogen as a replacement for gas with the current infrastructure.
All pipework would need to be replaced.
A low percentage blend is possible, but to meet climate goals it would need to be green hydrogen from renewable sources. The development of green hydrogen production will happen, but not at scale until some years hence.
Hydrogen is unsuited to domestic heating and vehicles, where electrification offers greater payload. For home heating electric via heat pumps gives 400% efficiency, so where it is viable it is the best option.
For new build, ground source where possible, air source if not, should be the default.
Insulation is a fundamental, irrespective of the type of heat provided.
Very disappointing strategy in total, far from what is needed.
Albie, I'm not sure where you're getting this from but it's not correct, or I should say the context isn't correct.
For instance, you quote the efficiency of heat pumps but fail to note that the problems associated with that technology will cause the implementation of it to fail. The sheer cost alone will be a sizeable burden despite the grants that are available. The grant package is miles away from anything remotely workable.
And I say all of that from a position of holding a senior position in the largest manufacturer of climate solutions globally, and that I sit on certain technical committee's that advise various governments around the world with what is possible.
Electricity is the future, there's no doubt about that, and we are currently converting ships in various countries to run on electricity, we're also converting construction plant machinery to run on hydrogen. There are lots of success stories around, and we are leading the filed with many of these technologies, so much so that our own factories will be carbon neutral within the next few years.
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What's the point in fifty years time we'll all be brown bread in any case. Why make ourselves miserable now when we won't be here in the future?
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What's the point in fifty years time we'll all be brown bread in any case. Why make ourselves miserable now when we won't be here in the future?
If not dead then underwater.
Future predicted maps of the uk show it to be an archipelago, with most major towns and cities underwater.
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What's the point in fifty years time we'll all be brown bread in any case. Why make ourselves miserable now when we won't be here in the future?
Churchill 1940 in AL's Universe.
"I have nothing to offer but...ah f**k it. We'll all be dead in 50 years anyway. Let's make peace and have fun."
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What's the point in fifty years time we'll all be brown bread in any case. Why make ourselves miserable now when we won't be here in the future?
Churchill 1940 in AL's Universe.
"I have nothing to offer but...ah f**k it. We'll all be dead in 50 years anyway. Let's make peace and have fun."
Mine's a pint. Cheers.
-
It is not possible to use hydrogen as a replacement for gas with the current infrastructure.
All pipework would need to be replaced.
A low percentage blend is possible, but to meet climate goals it would need to be green hydrogen from renewable sources. The development of green hydrogen production will happen, but not at scale until some years hence.
Hydrogen is unsuited to domestic heating and vehicles, where electrification offers greater payload. For home heating electric via heat pumps gives 400% efficiency, so where it is viable it is the best option.
For new build, ground source where possible, air source if not, should be the default.
Insulation is a fundamental, irrespective of the type of heat provided.
Very disappointing strategy in total, far from what is needed.
Albie, I'm not sure where you're getting this from but it's not correct, or I should say the context isn't correct.
For instance, you quote the efficiency of heat pumps but fail to note that the problems associated with that technology will cause the implementation of it to fail. The sheer cost alone will be a sizeable burden despite the grants that are available. The grant package is miles away from anything remotely workable.
And I say all of that from a position of holding a senior position in the largest manufacturer of climate solutions globally, and that I sit on certain technical committee's that advise various governments around the world with what is possible.
Electricity is the future, there's no doubt about that, and we are currently converting ships in various countries to run on electricity, we're also converting construction plant machinery to run on hydrogen. There are lots of success stories around, and we are leading the filed with many of these technologies, so much so that our own factories will be carbon neutral within the next few years.
Elon Musk has the whole electricity thing nailed on.
The whole of the USA can be powered by a solar farm that is 100 miles square using a battery the size of 1 mile square. So a very small corner of Ohio.
China could do the same he claims. And they have the space to do it too.
The sun is the largest power source we have . It’s infinitesimal the amount of power it gives off. Yet we piss around with hydro, wind and fossil fuels.
Electricity is the future. And we need to make use of the suns ability to create it a lot more.
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Trouble is we don't tend to get as much in UK, now if rain and cloud could be harnessed .........
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What's the point in fifty years time we'll all be brown bread in any case. Why make ourselves miserable now when we won't be here in the future?
Speak for yourself, I hope not to be!
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SM,
Not really sure of the point you are trying to make....what is not correct?
I agree the grant package is inadequate, and I made a point of saying heat pumps where viable, yet you say I "fail to note that the problems associated with that technology will cause the implementation of it to fail"....what do you mean?
Inappropriate use of hydrogen is being promoted by legacy fossil fuel interests to give life support to their dying industry.
It is not simply a matter of replacing gas supplies with hydrogen on a like for like basis. The economics of the transition is dynamic, not static.
You said to RD that hydrogen would be used for home heating;
"The industry is committed to alternatives to gas boilers, and the next step will be a gas/hydrogen mixture followed by a full conversion to hydrogen."
This is a very poor use of the (scarce) resource.
https://twitter.com/janrosenow/status/1448955118490116104/photo/1
Hydrogen has smaller molecules than natural gas, so the distribution network would need a full retrofit. The energy needed to pump H2 around the gas grid would be three times higher than for natural gas.
Hydrogen has a role to play in high carbon and energy demand sectors, like steel, cement, shipping etc.
Decarbonising the hydrogen supply chain has not yet been done.
Using hydrogen produced by electrolysis would raise overall power demand, not the objective of policy.
There are potential savings to overall system costs from the use of networked heat pumps and storage. Faster decarbonisation of electricity could reduce wholesale costs by around 15% in 2030.
The Heat and Buildings strategy kicks the can down the road on hydrogen, promising a decision after the next election on whether to take things forward.
There is a reason for that!
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https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/10/20/how-environmentalism-turned-politics-on-its-head/
Hits the nail on the head. Live in a cave and die by 30. Logans Run?
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Wonder how these heat pumps will work in Tower Blocks and streets and streets of terraced housing?
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Wonder how these heat pumps will work in Tower Blocks and streets and streets of terraced housing?
Exactly. It's a load of rubbish. Am i expected to dig up all my plants , shrubs, lawn and garden features to fit a new heating system? Sod off Boris.
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Wonder how these heat pumps will work in Tower Blocks and streets and streets of terraced housing?
Exactly. It's a load of rubbish. Am i expected to dig up all my plants , shrubs, lawn and garden features to fit a new heating system? Sod off Boris.
Don't sweat it AL. Keep on using your gas guzzler and your central heating and in 20 years you'll have your own source of wave power on your doorstep in Axholme.
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Wonder how these heat pumps will work in Tower Blocks and streets and streets of terraced housing?
Exactly. It's a load of rubbish. Am i expected to dig up all my plants , shrubs, lawn and garden features to fit a new heating system? Sod off Boris.
Don't sweat it AL. Keep on using your gas guzzler and your central heating and in 20 years you'll have your own source of wave power on your doorstep in Axholme.
It'll need to rise a bit to get over the bankings along the Trent side.
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Wonder how these heat pumps will work in Tower Blocks and streets and streets of terraced housing?
Exactly. It's a load of rubbish. Am i expected to dig up all my plants , shrubs, lawn and garden features to fit a new heating system? Sod off Boris.
Don't sweat it AL. Keep on using your gas guzzler and your central heating and in 20 years you'll have your own source of wave power on your doorstep in Axholme.
It'll need to rise a bit to get over the bankings along the Trent side.
If all the ice on earth melts then sea level will rise 68 metres.
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Wonder how these heat pumps will work in Tower Blocks and streets and streets of terraced housing?
Exactly. It's a load of rubbish. Am i expected to dig up all my plants , shrubs, lawn and garden features to fit a new heating system? Sod off Boris.
Don't sweat it AL. Keep on using your gas guzzler and your central heating and in 20 years you'll have your own source of wave power on your doorstep in Axholme.
It'll need to rise a bit to get over the bankings along the Trent side.
If all the ice on earth melts then sea level will rise 68 metres.
Not in my lifetime.
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Wonder how these heat pumps will work in Tower Blocks and streets and streets of terraced housing?
Exactly. It's a load of rubbish. Am i expected to dig up all my plants , shrubs, lawn and garden features to fit a new heating system? Sod off Boris.
Don't sweat it AL. Keep on using your gas guzzler and your central heating and in 20 years you'll have your own source of wave power on your doorstep in Axholme.
It'll need to rise a bit to get over the bankings along the Trent side.
If all the ice on earth melts then sea level will rise 68 metres.
Not in my lifetime.
And in those 4 words lies the problem for future generations.
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One of the worst of human traits. Selfishness.
There are some very apt and poignant quotes from the movies classic The day the earth stood still.
“Only when we are on the edge of existence, looking into the abyss, will we change.”
Of course by then, it will be too late.
The human race made its decision to consume its own habitat hundreds of years ago. They just did not realise it at the time. We are more aware or “woke” to it now. And yet we still do little or nothing except brush it off as not affecting our little worlds.
Instead, we worry today about which plastic toys we will waste money on this Christmas, where our next tank of fuel is coming from, where will will fly to for our
next holiday or which new mode of transport we will plough tens of thousands of pounds into.
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Wonder how these heat pumps will work in Tower Blocks and streets and streets of terraced housing?
Exactly. It's a load of rubbish. Am i expected to dig up all my plants , shrubs, lawn and garden features to fit a new heating system? Sod off Boris.
Don't sweat it AL. Keep on using your gas guzzler and your central heating and in 20 years you'll have your own source of wave power on your doorstep in Axholme.
It'll need to rise a bit to get over the bankings along the Trent side.
If all the ice on earth melts then sea level will rise 68 metres.
Not in my lifetime.
And in those 4 words lies the problem for future generations.
No one in the past was concerned about what happens today. Why should we sentence ourselves to a life of misery when it won't make any difference in the long run. China and India will still pollute the world to death regardless of what we do here. I don't care much for future generations, i'm bothered about the here and now. Mankind only has a limited lifespan left, in not many decades nature will take the earth back.
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And in those 79 words lies the problem for future generations…..
I’m by no means a climate activist, everyone is guilty of saying much but doing little, me included but as a species humans have evolved quicker, when we are put at adversity. In my opinion it will take a massive slap in the face to wake up this planet to what’s increasing round the corner. That massive slap will be in the order of millions dying/through lack of water. This is happening now, but soon in the next 5 years it will be the worlds biggest problem.
“By 2025, half of the world’s population will be living in water-stressed area. Currently
In the least developed countries, 22% of health care facilities have no water service, 21% no sanitation service, and 22% no waste management service, this is expected double by 2025”
So unless you want millions of people in rafts seeking something as basic as a glass of water arriving on our shores maybe the worlds powers, governmental & Business need to do something about it.
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Kevin Costner dealt with it.
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And in those 79 words lies the problem for future generations…..
I’m by no means a climate activist, everyone is guilty of saying much but doing little, me included but as a species humans have evolved quicker, when we are put at adversity. In my opinion it will take a massive slap in the face to wake up this planet to what’s increasing round the corner. That massive slap will be in the order of millions dying/through lack of water. This is happening now, but soon in the next 5 years it will be the worlds biggest problem.
“By 2025, half of the world’s population will be living in water-stressed area. Currently
In the least developed countries, 22% of health care facilities have no water service, 21% no sanitation service, and 22% no waste management service, this is expected double by 2025”
So unless you want millions of people in rafts seeking something as basic as a glass of water arriving on our shores maybe the worlds powers, governmental & Business need to do something about it.
All the more reason to become self sufficient and stop all immigration. We need to look after ourselves and keep people out. We can't be a home for every waif and stray on the scrounge from all over the planet. Over population is the number one problem, until there is a solution nothing will be solved. I don't see why we should suffer because people abroad refuse to stop breeding.
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There won’t be much room for people here in the UK if sea levels are going to rise by 68 metres coz most of the UK will be underwater anyway.
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There won’t be much room for people here in the UK if sea levels are going to rise by 68 metres coz most of the UK will be underwater anyway.
We will all be long dead when that happens
Apart from Kevin Costner
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And in those 79 words lies the problem for future generations…..
I’m by no means a climate activist, everyone is guilty of saying much but doing little, me included but as a species humans have evolved quicker, when we are put at adversity. In my opinion it will take a massive slap in the face to wake up this planet to what’s increasing round the corner. That massive slap will be in the order of millions dying/through lack of water. This is happening now, but soon in the next 5 years it will be the worlds biggest problem.
“By 2025, half of the world’s population will be living in water-stressed area. Currently
In the least developed countries, 22% of health care facilities have no water service, 21% no sanitation service, and 22% no waste management service, this is expected double by 2025”
So unless you want millions of people in rafts seeking something as basic as a glass of water arriving on our shores maybe the worlds powers, governmental & Business need to do something about it.
All the more reason to become self sufficient and stop all immigration. We need to look after ourselves and keep people out. We can't be a home for every waif and stray on the scrounge from all over the planet. Over population is the number one problem, until there is a solution nothing will be solved. I don't see why we should suffer because people abroad refuse to stop breeding.
Agree completely, and all those lefty, humanist, ethical tree hugging Crusties need to be booted out as well. What a Utopia…. All hail Boris! :suicide:
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And in those 79 words lies the problem for future generations…..
I’m by no means a climate activist, everyone is guilty of saying much but doing little, me included but as a species humans have evolved quicker, when we are put at adversity. In my opinion it will take a massive slap in the face to wake up this planet to what’s increasing round the corner. That massive slap will be in the order of millions dying/through lack of water. This is happening now, but soon in the next 5 years it will be the worlds biggest problem.
“By 2025, half of the world’s population will be living in water-stressed area. Currently
In the least developed countries, 22% of health care facilities have no water service, 21% no sanitation service, and 22% no waste management service, this is expected double by 2025”
So unless you want millions of people in rafts seeking something as basic as a glass of water arriving on our shores maybe the worlds powers, governmental & Business need to do something about it.
All the more reason to become self sufficient and stop all immigration. We need to look after ourselves and keep people out. We can't be a home for every waif and stray on the scrounge from all over the planet. Over population is the number one problem, until there is a solution nothing will be solved. I don't see why we should suffer because people abroad refuse to stop breeding.
This from a citizen of one of the most densely populated countries on earth...
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I see we have one or two ostrich's among our number.
Well, here is a tale of things to come;
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/climate-change-flood-map-shows-25275202
Not too clever, is it?
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Oz has released a plan to reach net zero emissions by 2050, hooray, yeah, woo hoo
by technology, it's just that it hasn't been invented yet, awwwwww
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And in those 79 words lies the problem for future generations…..
I’m by no means a climate activist, everyone is guilty of saying much but doing little, me included but as a species humans have evolved quicker, when we are put at adversity. In my opinion it will take a massive slap in the face to wake up this planet to what’s increasing round the corner. That massive slap will be in the order of millions dying/through lack of water. This is happening now, but soon in the next 5 years it will be the worlds biggest problem.
“By 2025, half of the world’s population will be living in water-stressed area. Currently
In the least developed countries, 22% of health care facilities have no water service, 21% no sanitation service, and 22% no waste management service, this is expected double by 2025”
So unless you want millions of people in rafts seeking something as basic as a glass of water arriving on our shores maybe the worlds powers, governmental & Business need to do something about it.
All the more reason to become self sufficient and stop all immigration. We need to look after ourselves and keep people out. We can't be a home for every waif and stray on the scrounge from all over the planet. Over population is the number one problem, until there is a solution nothing will be solved. I don't see why we should suffer because people abroad refuse to stop breeding.
This from a citizen of one of the most densely populated countries on earth...
Exactly. We're full up. No room at the Inn.
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Can't Attenborough piss off?
Another preaching to us all about saving the planet when he's spent the last 40 years plus flying all over the place and using recording equipment most probably made in China.
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Can't Attenborough piss off?
Another preaching to us all about saving the planet when he's spent the last 40 years plus flying all over the place and using recording equipment most probably made in China.
Another 'I've had my life and done what i want but now you've got to live in a cardboard box.' merchant. Typical BBC hypocrite.
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A message from the Australien Government on Climate Change
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIyKmqEdgR4
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What you could do for renewable energy with extra billions.
''Shell and BP, which together produce more than 1.7bn tonnes of greenhouse gases a year, have not paid any corporation tax on oil and gas production in the North Sea for the last three years, company filings reveal.
The oil giants, which have an annual global footprint of greenhouse gases more than five times bigger than Britain’s, are benefiting from billions of pounds of tax breaks and reliefs for oil and gas production''
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/oct/30/shell-and-bp-paid-zero-tax-on-north-sea-gas-and-oil-for-three-years
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Everything is made in China because people want things and want cheap things.
Lots of foods are transported around the world for us to eat because we want them and don't want empty shelves or to rely on British seasonal veg.
We all want the latest gadgets.
People want cheap clothing.
The list is endless but the upshot is that we are all the problem because we are selfish t**ts and thus the world may end up dying because we not only won't change our behaviours, but because most people don't see that they are actually the problem. Others are always the problem - not them. This is particularly true of those cretins at the COP26 and the likes of Greta Thunberg etc. All preaching to others but failing to acknowledge they are part of the problem.
COP26 is a colossal waste of everyones time. Why would you even think it acceptable to take a flight to a climate conference and then start lecturing others about how to stop climate change. It is this breathtaking lack of self awareness that hits the hardest. It is almost as if they are actually to dumb to realize how their behaviour looks to others in terms of setting an example.
Anyway, it is simply too late because people simply won't change their consumerist behaviour. The human need for more will kill us all.
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When I were a lad if it wasn't grown here it wasn't available, Avacados, Peppers, Tomato etc in Winter not a chance. I didn't know Avacados and peppers existed until 1970's You got what was grown seasonally over here, foodstuffs weren't shipped halfway around the world as they are now
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Talking about a lack of self awareness.
Norwich City today at their game against Leeds promoting climate change measures by recommending fans do lots of things at the game or before the game to help with climate change etc. Giving fans initiatives about how to help in their own little way on a matchday.
Then Norwich will probably fly their entire squad to away games at Liverpool / Newcastle etc.
Just another example of being preached to by f**king numbskull hypocrites who haven't even got the intelligence to work out that such recommendations make them look stupid.
On a similar point. I'm sure i read somewhere that recently Man U squad flew to Leicester for a game? Madness.
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Talks about climate crises affected by - errr, climate crises:
https://twitter.com/Torcuil/status/1454779406006853636
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Did anyone see the vehicle convoy that follows Biden around. There must be two dozen of them. All flown specially from the US.
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Incredible story on countryfile currently. The town of Fairbourne in West Wales is predicted to be the first abandoned in the uk due to rising sea levels.
Climate refugees.
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I foresee that right move soon will have to advertise height above sea level soon on property listings. If I was 20 or 30 now, I’d have to think long and hard about buying a house anywhere near the coast that is at or near sea level.
It’s beggars belief how many houses are being thrown up near us in Lincolnshire not 3 miles from the coast. All at sea level.
We complain about economic refugees flooding into the uk, but before the end of this century we will have our own refugees. Starting with circa 0.75 million people who need re homing from Lincolnshire.
And where will all the veg come from once Lincs is underwater.?
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Incredible story on countryfile currently. The town of Fairbourne in West Wales is predicted to be the first abandoned in the uk due to rising sea levels.
Climate refugees.
I just read an article about this NR.
The locals certainly don’t appear to be accepting what the local council are saying about it.
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It seems that even Australia has issues complying with climate change policies:
The UN found that: "There has been no improvement in Australia's climate policy since 2017 and emission levels for 2030 are projected to be well above the target."The Climate Change Performance Index ranked Australia last out of 57 countries responsible for more than 90% of greenhouse gas emissions on climate policy.
It highlighted the country's no-show at a UN climate summit in September and its withdrawal from an international fund to tackle climate change.
Australian emissions will be only 16% lower than 2005 levels in 2030.
More important than specific targets - Australia as a fossil fuel producer has so far failed to acknowledge the need to plan for a world of net zero emissions, says Myles Allen, a climate change expert at the University of Oxford.
You never hear about problems down there.
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Fairbourne has been identified as unsustainable to defend, given predicted sea level rise. The best estimate at present is that the area will be abandoned between 2052 and 2062, though the range of uncertainty is between 2042 and 2072. This is based on a rise in critical sea level of 0.5 metres.
“Managed retreat” is a phrase that will plague communities all over the world in the coming decades.
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It seems that even Australia has issues complying with climate change policies:
The UN found that: "There has been no improvement in Australia's climate policy since 2017 and emission levels for 2030 are projected to be well above the target."The Climate Change Performance Index ranked Australia last out of 57 countries responsible for more than 90% of greenhouse gas emissions on climate policy.
It highlighted the country's no-show at a UN climate summit in September and its withdrawal from an international fund to tackle climate change.
Australian emissions will be only 16% lower than 2005 levels in 2030.
More important than specific targets - Australia as a fossil fuel producer has so far failed to acknowledge the need to plan for a world of net zero emissions, says Myles Allen, a climate change expert at the University of Oxford.
You never hear about problems down there.
That's maybe cos you spend most of your time on off topic looking for ways to score points rather than being part of the various discussions hound, read back through the thread and grow a bit.
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''Revealed: a third of England’s vital flood defences are in private hands
Some defences are at risk of failure but private owners cannot be forced to make upgrades''
A third of England’s most important flood defences are in private hands, an investigation has found, with more than 1,000 found to be in a poor state and some at risk of “complete performance failure”.
''Data obtained under freedom of information laws by Unearthed, the investigative arm of Greenpeace UK''
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/oct/31/revealed-a-third-of-england-vital-flood-defences-are-in-private-hands
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I think the leaders of the world should make flying expensive. Very expensive.
We fly far too much.
I looked at flight tracker last night and the skies are literally ful of planes. All over the world.
The global aviation industry produces around 2% of all human-induced carbon dioxide.
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I think the leaders of the world should make flying expensive. Very expensive.
We fly far too much.
I looked at flight tracker last night and the skies are literally ful of planes. All over the world.
The global aviation industry produces around 2% of all human-induced carbon dioxide.
This is a curly one NR, in some countries air travel is the only viable way to avoid days of travel and it also it also becomes a rich persons domain if the price goes up. Following 9/11 the skies became a lot clearer, as the did in parts of India shut down due to covid. Maybe joy flights to space and back should be knocked on the head and force them to develop cleaner methods. I fly with my partner but only usually to a destination + return but very rarely fly short haul. So yes I am guilty of flying. Fast train competition should be developed to reduce a lot of the short haul route such as Syd to Melb which is one of the busiest routes. There could be encouragement to take less baggage and tax more for over a certain amount, our joint baggage weight is rarely more than 20kg, but this should not be to make more room for air freight. Air freight could be cut drastically and be made prohibitively expensive for almost everything except medical or supplies for people in trouble or urgent supplies. On a personal level we are having an energy survey done for our home to try and get the maximum renewable energy advantages for such things as solar, heat pump water heating and induction cooking. We tossed out the gas heater a while ago and use only reverse cycle Air Con. All lighting is led or compact fluoro' and I have been working through the house insulating and sealing windows, I have quite a bit to do as it's an old property. A large percentage of our furniture is second hand and repaired and I have made pieces myself from salvaged timber. We have a tumble composter and grow herbs and small veg and recycle everything possible with little going to landfill. I have spent this week trying to rehome quite a bit of good quality but second hand furniture. We also support green candidates for both state and national positions. Not just voting but actively campaigning. We can do this as the greens would never support the coalition and we don't have fptp voting. You have seen what our current coalition PM is like this week at Glasgow.
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This is all good sr. You sound like my kind of person, but our personal sacrifices regarding international travel need to go much much deeper than this.
I see in the news this morning that Ryanair are looking to slash prices on their flights so they can fill them over winter.
Whilst some might say they are getting the most out of their carbon footprint, it’s clearly a case of money over climate.
I’d be interested to know how many on this forum would be willing to forgo international holidays for the sake of their carbon footprint?
Not many I suspect.
We proved over lockdown that we can still do business , even international business without the need to be face to face.
The visual benefits were all there to see during lockdown. Fish were seen again in waters around Venice. Smog cleared from Chinese and Indian cities.
We have been very quick to go back to how it used to be sadly.
Covid has shown us a glimpse of what we can be.
We are so small minded though, so self consumed with our own little worlds, we simply cannot see what’s coming .
I heard on the news last night that china will be at peak coal production/ burn in another 4 years. Meantime they predict the Maldives could be under water, the whole archipelago, within this decade.
It’s all too little too late I’m afraid.
Since the industrial revolution we have been f**king this planet. We continue to do so, in the name of growth and progress.
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I think the leaders of the world should make flying expensive. Very expensive.
We fly far too much.
I looked at flight tracker last night and the skies are literally ful of planes. All over the world.
The global aviation industry produces around 2% of all human-induced carbon dioxide.
This is a curly one NR, in some countries air travel is the only viable way to avoid days of travel and it also it also becomes a rich persons domain if the price goes up. Following 9/11 the skies became a lot clearer, as the did in parts of India shut down due to covid. Maybe joy flights to space and back should be knocked on the head and force them to develop cleaner methods. I fly with my partner but only usually to a destination + return but very rarely fly short haul. So yes I am guilty of flying. Fast train competition should be developed to reduce a lot of the short haul route such as Syd to Melb which is one of the busiest routes. There could be encouragement to take less baggage and tax more for over a certain amount, our joint baggage weight is rarely more than 20kg, but this should not be to make more room for air freight. Air freight could be cut drastically and be made prohibitively expensive for almost everything except medical or supplies for people in trouble or urgent supplies. On a personal level we are having an energy survey done for our home to try and get the maximum renewable energy advantages for such things as solar, heat pump water heating and induction cooking. We tossed out the gas heater a while ago and use only reverse cycle Air Con. All lighting is led or compact fluoro' and I have been working through the house insulating and sealing windows, I have quite a bit to do as it's an old property. A large percentage of our furniture is second hand and repaired and I have made pieces myself from salvaged timber. We have a tumble composter and grow herbs and small veg and recycle everything possible with little going to landfill. I have spent this week trying to rehome quite a bit of good quality but second hand furniture. We also support green candidates for both state and national positions. Not just voting but actively campaigning. We can do this as the greens would never support the coalition and we don't have fptp voting. You have seen what our current coalition PM is like this week at Glasgow.
Nice one Sydders your 'Drum' sounds like a cross between the Greenham Common peace Camp and Steptoes back yard!
You could really make a massive contribution to reducing greenhouse gas emissions by keeping yer gob shut!
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I think the leaders of the world should make flying expensive. Very expensive.
We fly far too much.
I looked at flight tracker last night and the skies are literally ful of planes. All over the world.
The global aviation industry produces around 2% of all human-induced carbon dioxide.
This is a curly one NR, in some countries air travel is the only viable way to avoid days of travel and it also it also becomes a rich persons domain if the price goes up. Following 9/11 the skies became a lot clearer, as the did in parts of India shut down due to covid. Maybe joy flights to space and back should be knocked on the head and force them to develop cleaner methods. I fly with my partner but only usually to a destination + return but very rarely fly short haul. So yes I am guilty of flying. Fast train competition should be developed to reduce a lot of the short haul route such as Syd to Melb which is one of the busiest routes. There could be encouragement to take less baggage and tax more for over a certain amount, our joint baggage weight is rarely more than 20kg, but this should not be to make more room for air freight. Air freight could be cut drastically and be made prohibitively expensive for almost everything except medical or supplies for people in trouble or urgent supplies. On a personal level we are having an energy survey done for our home to try and get the maximum renewable energy advantages for such things as solar, heat pump water heating and induction cooking. We tossed out the gas heater a while ago and use only reverse cycle Air Con. All lighting is led or compact fluoro' and I have been working through the house insulating and sealing windows, I have quite a bit to do as it's an old property. A large percentage of our furniture is second hand and repaired and I have made pieces myself from salvaged timber. We have a tumble composter and grow herbs and small veg and recycle everything possible with little going to landfill. I have spent this week trying to rehome quite a bit of good quality but second hand furniture. We also support green candidates for both state and national positions. Not just voting but actively campaigning. We can do this as the greens would never support the coalition and we don't have fptp voting. You have seen what our current coalition PM is like this week at Glasgow.
Nice one Sydders your 'Drum' sounds like a cross between the Greenham Common peace Camp and Steptoes back yard!
You could really make a massive contribution to reducing greenhouse gas emissions by keeping yer gob shut!
I love it when you go all potty mouth sprot cos I know it gets to you, now go f**k yourself, nicely though.
-
I think the leaders of the world should make flying expensive. Very expensive.
We fly far too much.
I looked at flight tracker last night and the skies are literally ful of planes. All over the world.
The global aviation industry produces around 2% of all human-induced carbon dioxide.
This is a curly one NR, in some countries air travel is the only viable way to avoid days of travel and it also it also becomes a rich persons domain if the price goes up. Following 9/11 the skies became a lot clearer, as the did in parts of India shut down due to covid. Maybe joy flights to space and back should be knocked on the head and force them to develop cleaner methods. I fly with my partner but only usually to a destination + return but very rarely fly short haul. So yes I am guilty of flying. Fast train competition should be developed to reduce a lot of the short haul route such as Syd to Melb which is one of the busiest routes. There could be encouragement to take less baggage and tax more for over a certain amount, our joint baggage weight is rarely more than 20kg, but this should not be to make more room for air freight. Air freight could be cut drastically and be made prohibitively expensive for almost everything except medical or supplies for people in trouble or urgent supplies. On a personal level we are having an energy survey done for our home to try and get the maximum renewable energy advantages for such things as solar, heat pump water heating and induction cooking. We tossed out the gas heater a while ago and use only reverse cycle Air Con. All lighting is led or compact fluoro' and I have been working through the house insulating and sealing windows, I have quite a bit to do as it's an old property. A large percentage of our furniture is second hand and repaired and I have made pieces myself from salvaged timber. We have a tumble composter and grow herbs and small veg and recycle everything possible with little going to landfill. I have spent this week trying to rehome quite a bit of good quality but second hand furniture. We also support green candidates for both state and national positions. Not just voting but actively campaigning. We can do this as the greens would never support the coalition and we don't have fptp voting. You have seen what our current coalition PM is like this week at Glasgow.
Nice one Sydders your 'Drum' sounds like a cross between the Greenham Common peace Camp and Steptoes back yard!
You could really make a massive contribution to reducing greenhouse gas emissions by keeping yer gob shut!
I love it when you go all potty mouth sprot cos I know it gets to you, now go f**k yourself, nicely though.
Oh dear Sydders that's twice you have told me to go forth,I suggest you leave the 'Tinnies' alone and then take your own advice.. go forth!
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I think the leaders of the world should make flying expensive. Very expensive.
We fly far too much.
I looked at flight tracker last night and the skies are literally ful of planes. All over the world.
The global aviation industry produces around 2% of all human-induced carbon dioxide.
This is a curly one NR, in some countries air travel is the only viable way to avoid days of travel and it also it also becomes a rich persons domain if the price goes up. Following 9/11 the skies became a lot clearer, as the did in parts of India shut down due to covid. Maybe joy flights to space and back should be knocked on the head and force them to develop cleaner methods. I fly with my partner but only usually to a destination + return but very rarely fly short haul. So yes I am guilty of flying. Fast train competition should be developed to reduce a lot of the short haul route such as Syd to Melb which is one of the busiest routes. There could be encouragement to take less baggage and tax more for over a certain amount, our joint baggage weight is rarely more than 20kg, but this should not be to make more room for air freight. Air freight could be cut drastically and be made prohibitively expensive for almost everything except medical or supplies for people in trouble or urgent supplies. On a personal level we are having an energy survey done for our home to try and get the maximum renewable energy advantages for such things as solar, heat pump water heating and induction cooking. We tossed out the gas heater a while ago and use only reverse cycle Air Con. All lighting is led or compact fluoro' and I have been working through the house insulating and sealing windows, I have quite a bit to do as it's an old property. A large percentage of our furniture is second hand and repaired and I have made pieces myself from salvaged timber. We have a tumble composter and grow herbs and small veg and recycle everything possible with little going to landfill. I have spent this week trying to rehome quite a bit of good quality but second hand furniture. We also support green candidates for both state and national positions. Not just voting but actively campaigning. We can do this as the greens would never support the coalition and we don't have fptp voting. You have seen what our current coalition PM is like this week at Glasgow.
Nice one Sydders your 'Drum' sounds like a cross between the Greenham Common peace Camp and Steptoes back yard!
You could really make a massive contribution to reducing greenhouse gas emissions by keeping yer gob shut!
Yes Sproty, it appears that it is ok to ban flying just as long as some people can fly themselves, whether that be to one destination or to many.
A bit of the I’m allright Jack.
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Again hound you jump in, how many times have you done that and got it wrong.
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This is all good sr. You sound like my kind of person, but our personal sacrifices regarding international travel need to go much much deeper than this.
I see in the news this morning that Ryanair are looking to slash prices on their flights so they can fill them over winter.
Whilst some might say they are getting the most out of their carbon footprint, it’s clearly a case of money over climate.
I’d be interested to know how many on this forum would be willing to forgo international holidays for the sake of their carbon footprint?
Not many I suspect.
To answer your question NR, I for one wouldn’t give a hoot if I never flew in an aeroplane again.
So yes, I would be happy to forgo international holidays if it helps.
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International travel should have been banned for five years when covid arrived. Totally unnecessary in most cases.
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This is all good sr. You sound like my kind of person, but our personal sacrifices regarding international travel need to go much much deeper than this.
I see in the news this morning that Ryanair are looking to slash prices on their flights so they can fill them over winter.
Whilst some might say they are getting the most out of their carbon footprint, it’s clearly a case of money over climate.
I’d be interested to know how many on this forum would be willing to forgo international holidays for the sake of their carbon footprint?
Not many I suspect.
I doubt I will ever fly again my Carbon footprint will be negligible unlike 'SYDD OF THE DUMP' who seems to love whizzing around Australia clearly looking for a means to escape as he hates the place!
To answer your question NR, I for one wouldn’t give a hoot if I never flew in an aeroplane again.
So yes, I would be happy to forgo international holidays if it helps.
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This is all good sr. You sound like my kind of person, but our personal sacrifices regarding international travel need to go much much deeper than this.
I see in the news this morning that Ryanair are looking to slash prices on their flights so they can fill them over winter.
Whilst some might say they are getting the most out of their carbon footprint, it’s clearly a case of money over climate.
I’d be interested to know how many on this forum would be willing to forgo international holidays for the sake of their carbon footprint?
Not many I suspect.
I doubt I will ever fly again my Carbon footprint will be negligible unlike 'SYDD OF THE DUMP' who seems to love whizzing around Australia clearly looking for a means to escape as he hates the place!
Haha, excellent way to reply sprot
To answer your question NR, I for one wouldn’t give a hoot if I never flew in an aeroplane again.
So yes, I would be happy to forgo international holidays if it helps.
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Glad you liked it
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Further topical news, considering this it the climate crisis thread and that COP26 is underway:
From The Guardian, just for balance:
Australia has trashed the Paris agreement and exposed itself as the worst kind of climate hypocrite.
The Morrison government has shown that it quite simply does not do what it says on the world stage
With the events of last week, the Morrison government has shown that it quite simply does not do what it says on the world stage. Our climate indifference isn’t just reckless for our economy, our environment and our people. It is also reckless for our diplomacy as Morrison’s visit to Glasgow will surely now demonstrate.
There are four critical promises Australia made in Paris which it has now broken. These weren’t just handshake agreements, they are international law.
First and foremost, Australia agreed that every country should come back to the table at COP26 to ensure the short-term targets set for this decade represented the “highest possible ambition”. That is what Glasgow is all about and more than 100 countries have now made new commitments for 2030 in the lead-up, including the United States which we originally established as a benchmark for our own ambition.
Instead, the Morrison government quietly informed the UN on New Year’s Eve last year (when most public servants weren’t even working and most Australians were too busy firing up their barbecues to pay attention) that they didn’t intend to honour that promise. The government’s latest decision to not even align our existing target with our new projections is a completely gutless decision. It wouldn’t have even required them to do an ounce more, but would have at least demonstrated they understood their international obligations.
Australia has also callously ignored its promise to deliver on the Paris agreement’s long-term goal to reach net zero emissions globally by 2050.
Even by Yes Minister standards, calling the government’s net zero pamphlet a “plan” is courageous.
Written by Thom Woodroofe.
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i had been meaning to sugest you google "Thatcher climate change "
and her nostradamus mode
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/blog/2013/apr/09/margaret-thatcher-green-hero
"Margaret Thatcher will be remembered for her short lived "green period" in the late 1980s when she helped put climate change (or global warming as it was then known), acid rain and pollution on to the mainstream political map. Tutored by Sir Crispin Tickell, British ambassador to the UN in New York, she made several dramatic environment speeches.
The first, to the Royal Society on 27 September 1988, galvanised the emerging green debate in Britain and helped swell the membership of groups like Friends of the Earth and Greenpeace. The ecological and scientific arguments she used were not new, but their impact was profound:"
https://www.economist.com/open-future/2019/11/22/climate-freedom-and-denial-what-green-thatcherism-teaches-us-today
there is an excellent programme doing the rounds on radio4 about her
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Nice one India. Carbon neutrality by 2070.
Ffs.
Narendra Modi just does not get it I suppose.
Perhaps he will when the Maldives, part of the Indian subcontinent is under water in under 10 years. There are huge parts of India at or below sea level too.
He will have a re think when the water is lapping at his front door. When it’s too late .
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Perhaps we should force India to use the aid we give them solely on climate change initiatives?
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It’s very frustrating. We think we have population problems. India has a pop of 1.2 billion. That’s 15 and a half times the pop of uk. The country is run on two stroke motors. Tens of millions of them.
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Further topical news, considering this it the climate crisis thread and that COP26 is underway:
From The Guardian, just for balance:
Australia has trashed the Paris agreement and exposed itself as the worst kind of climate hypocrite.
The Morrison government has shown that it quite simply does not do what it says on the world stage
With the events of last week, the Morrison government has shown that it quite simply does not do what it says on the world stage. Our climate indifference isn’t just reckless for our economy, our environment and our people. It is also reckless for our diplomacy as Morrison’s visit to Glasgow will surely now demonstrate.
There are four critical promises Australia made in Paris which it has now broken. These weren’t just handshake agreements, they are international law.
First and foremost, Australia agreed that every country should come back to the table at COP26 to ensure the short-term targets set for this decade represented the “highest possible ambition”. That is what Glasgow is all about and more than 100 countries have now made new commitments for 2030 in the lead-up, including the United States which we originally established as a benchmark for our own ambition.
Instead, the Morrison government quietly informed the UN on New Year’s Eve last year (when most public servants weren’t even working and most Australians were too busy firing up their barbecues to pay attention) that they didn’t intend to honour that promise. The government’s latest decision to not even align our existing target with our new projections is a completely gutless decision. It wouldn’t have even required them to do an ounce more, but would have at least demonstrated they understood their international obligations.
Australia has also callously ignored its promise to deliver on the Paris agreement’s long-term goal to reach net zero emissions globally by 2050.
Even by Yes Minister standards, calling the government’s net zero pamphlet a “plan” is courageous.
Written by Thom Woodroofe.
Yep, morrison is a liar, not as bad as johnson but a liar all the same.
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England is more densely populated than India.
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I haven't driven a car for 23 years, and my last plane flight was 14 years ago.
Brownie points please.
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I haven't driven a car for 23 years, and my last plane flight was 14 years ago.
Brownie points please.
2 brownie points awarded to SS
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Good news for jobs in northern England and when I get a greener car next time I trade-in for the newer model.
''Rolls-Royce and Qatar to invest billions in UK green engineering
Engine maker and Gulf state to fund startups looking for new ways to hit net zero''
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/nov/01/rolls-royce-qatar-invest-billions-uk-green-engineering-startups-net-zero
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I haven't driven a car for 23 years, and my last plane flight was 14 years ago.
Brownie points please.
I haven't been abroad for about 15 years also but i do drive a car. I am vegetarian though if that helps?
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I have a caravan so when I'm on holiday I park my holiday home on eco friendly gravel, not like going in a hotel where the foundations have been dug up and filled with water resistant concrete.
Do I qualify for owt?
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Raised a smile that BB. :lol:
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I have a caravan so when I'm on holiday I park my holiday home on eco friendly gravel, not like going in a hotel where the foundations have been dug up and filled with water resistant concrete.
Do I qualify for owt?
Do they not grow the concrete in the foundation trenches?
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Cop26 news. some of the world's biggest coal-dependent countries, including Australia, India, China and the US, did not sign up to the pledge to end reliance of coal .
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That’s not really surprising though.
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Surprising no. Disappointing yes.
China will increase their coal prod for at least the next three years.
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Cop26 news. some of the world's biggest coal-dependent countries, including Australia, India, China and the US, did not sign up to the pledge to end reliance of coal .
Fortunately in Australia, banks, insurers and others will not get involved in new mines. Unfortunately some of the existing mines are massive.
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I see emissions are getting back to and beyond the pre-pandemic level. So much for building back better.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/nov/04/reality-check-global-co2-emissions-shooting-back-to-record-levels
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I haven't driven a car for 23 years, and my last plane flight was 14 years ago.
Brownie points please.
I haven't been abroad for about 15 years also but i do drive a car. I am vegetarian though if that helps?
I haven't taken a flight for maybe 10 years now. Mainly it has to be said because it's an experience I'd rather not have to endure.
The last time I went abroad was to Italy, and we visited Venice for a day. I did not enjoy the experience, the place was so overcrowded and so expensive. Looking at one of those monster cruise ships towering above the ancient buildings, it brought it home how damaging tourism can be. And that I was part of the problem.
I probably will go to Italy again, I love the place. But I won't visit Venice or Florence or Rome. And I'll probably go by train, that is a form of travel I enjoy, and travelling on trains abroad gives you an experience of a country in itself.
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By the end of this century, the only way you will be able to visit Venice, and see it , will be from a submarine.
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By the end of this century, the only way you will be able to visit Venice, and see it , will be from a submarine.
If that Guardian article is right and we are on course to hit 1.5 degrees C in just eleven years... Then at that rate by the end of the century, there won't be anyone around to visit anything.
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I’m not one to be worried too much by things. My dad, god bless him, is a “I won’t be around for it to bother me type generation”
But I have genuine concerns about the future of life, in the uk as well as the wider world in coming decades.
This sat morning, out of interest, I’m getting up early, about 5-30 am and popping down to the local sea bank , which is only about 3 miles away from my house. Prior to weaving my way along Caistor high st to scunny of course.
I’m taking the dog for a walk, but sat morning around 6-30 am will be one of the higher tides of the year, coinciding with the relevant moon cycle. It’s about a 7.2 m tide. I’m interested to see just how high it is.
House wise, we probably have one more move left in us. Probably to a bungalow. I’m giving serious consideration to how high above sea level that property would be. Which would mean a move from Lincolnshire altogether.
It’s not really a thing currently in the housing market, but I can see it being the top priority for prospective house buyers in years to come.
And yet we still build houses on flood plains.
Beggars belief.
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Prof Pierre Friedlingstein, at the University of Exeter, UK, said: “To achieve net zero by 2050, we must cut emissions every year by an amount comparable to that seen during Covid.
Just think about that for a minute. Remember how difficult lockdown was? And then think to achieve the goal we would need lockdown levels of cuts, on top of lockdown on top of lockdown for years to come.
There is no pain free way of achieving this.
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Stop the lunacy and get this signed.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/599602/signatures/new
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Stop the lunacy and get this signed.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/599602/signatures/new
What's the point?
If we don't try and do this then we're f***ed.
And we aren't really trying anyway, most of the measures are either green wash or put off into the future.
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An absolutely ridiculous petition. The sooner we cut emissions, cut plastic and create an environment that's better for our children the better.
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The planet is f**ked anyway. We are trying, in vain, to put a sticking plaster on the Hoover dam which has just sprung a big leak.
I watched pt 2 of universe last night.which is pretty mind boggling.
We are f**king our planet yet spending billions on trying to find other planets around the universe that may be capable of sustaining life.
The nearest possible one being 146 light years away.
Which we will never ever be able to get to.
And to put that into perspective, the fastest space probe we have would take millions of our years to get there. But would never have the capacity to store enough fuel. So is literally impossible.
The future of the planet will first be a world with considerably more surface water than
We have currently, leading to mass migration of the populous, leading to ever greater over population. The likes of which we simply cannot comprehend.
The talk of a North Sea wall seems like pie in the sky at the moment.
But I can see this being a reality.
I cannot see any other way to protect the tens of millions in this part of the world from permanent flood.
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Why should i pay what's in it for me?
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Why should i pay what's in it for me?
Assuming you live on the Isle itself, AL, and if you live long enough, you will be able to experience climate change first hand. As your area, like mine, will be in the firing line of rising sea levels.
If you don’t and you have kids, they most certainly will in their lifetime.
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I’m lucky enough to be a homeowner.
It’s not happened yet, but it will. Homes will start depreciating as a result of where they are.
You only have to look at the blighted communities whose homes are literally being taken by the sea every year. Yorkshire coast Norfolk coast. The homes in these communities are worthless.
Insurers will start shying away from this risk too.
Owning a home in a flood risk area has not really hit home yet in the uk. We pay a slight premium for living near a watercourse etc, but nothing too extreme.
But it will. And soon.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prR1UQBMrAw&list=UU876yBInncBfsiknqMdHvuA&index=27
This bloke should be PM.
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Why should i pay what's in it for me?
This kind of question makes me think the reason for climate change denial, is simply that some don't like the potential impacts on their lifestyle.
What's in it for me?
I don't like it therefore it cannot be true.
Therefore the scientists have to be wrong.
It is as base as that, isn't it?
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Had a little look on rightmove to prove a point to myself.
There is a very nice 5 bed detached bungalow in Happisburgh, with wonderful sea views. Sited in a private secluded cul de sac next to the ancient church there.
Idyllic.
But it’s about 200 m from the ever eroding cliff there.
It’s just been reduced (again) to £300,000.
Now a property like this , in Norfolk should be worth circa three quarters to a million pound.in fact there are plenty just a few miles inland priced at just this.
We don’t think it will affect us if we don’t live on the coast.
In time, it will. And sooner than you think.
I joked a few weeks ago about “Doncaster by the sea.” The more I think about it, the less funny it is.
If you look at the predicted models and heights above sea levels locally around the Humber South Yorkshire area, it does not take the brains of a scientist to see where the risk is. Most of the moors around Thorne are below sea level for instance.
We had a taste of it recently when areas around fishlake were swamped and east of Lincoln.these were just minor breaches of watercourses.
All the early warning signs are there .
What do we do about it i hear you ask?
Well, I don’t think the shenanigans in Glasgow will help on the grand scheme of things.
So the next best thing is to make sure you are prepared.
My next house move will be to higher ground.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prR1UQBMrAw&list=UU876yBInncBfsiknqMdHvuA&index=27
This bloke should be PM.
Short sighted idiot.
I am no eco Kitson. Far from it.
Ask this clown where his spuds will come from when Lincolnshire is under water.
Mind you, he sounds like a city dweller, so probably has no comprehension of where they come from or what they need to grow.
I imagine his life revolves day to day around Going To work, getting home, having his tea cooked for him and then getting his leg over if he is lucky enough.
Mind you, he will be happy when he can catch his own jellied eels in his own back garden.
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It's difficult to know what to do about potential flooding. With these extreme heavy rainfall events flash floods can affect anyone. NR
In fact neighbours just down the road from us were flooded out just a few weeks ago. To make it worse they live on a lane where there is a Yorkshire water pump house or something. Anyway it got inundated and it sent a whole load of sewage into three or four properties. They had tankers pumping it out for days.
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I’m not talking about floods from rainwater though. They have always happened. For centuries and longer compounded in recent centuries by what we build and where we build it. Built up areas where every driveway has block paving and tarmac with no where for water to go etc.
No, I’m talking about the sea.
I don’t know if you ever get to stand at the seas edge often. We walk the dog on the beautiful stretch between Skegness and Gibraltar point often. The sea defences are non existent. The sand dunes are slowly being eroded and there is not much left of them.
It won’t be many years before the highest tides will come inland, there is nothing to stop it.
Add to that rising sea levels and there is a recipe for catastrophe.
The only silver lining is the tide itself. It goes out twice a day which would offer respite. But there will be swathes of low lying areas across the uk that will simply have to be given up to account for tides.
Frieston shore near where I live is a good example. It’s an rspb reserve. Not too many years ago they breached the sea wall in three places to allow the sea in. A managed retreat I think they call it.
The sea completely fills it at high tide. Held back only by the existing and old sea bank
There is not enough time, or money to surround every low lying area in the uk with walls and banks. Not going to happen.
So the sea will come. It’s just a matter of time.
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I understand that NR. Those glaciers in Greenland are just going to keep melting and keep dumping millions of gallons into the oceans. I'm just making the point you can live up a hill and still not be secure.
With the right climatic conditions we will see a massive storm surge inundating large parts of England and the Netherlands. It happened before and it will happen again but it will be worse next time. and it is only a matter of time.
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Well if the scientists are right, if every drop of ice around the world and both ice caps melted then the sea will rise globally by 68 metres. So that my starting point. Lol
Incidentally, if they ever happened. The uk would end up as an archipelago.
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http://flood.firetree.net/
Try this, it maps the potential areas that will flood at different depths.
13m and Donny is gone.
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Before that is most of the crop growing area in south Lincs. Just 3-4 m would leave a lot of empty supermarket shelves.
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http://flood.firetree.net/
Try this, it maps the potential areas that will flood at different depths.
13m and Donny is gone.
Rather than wasting money on HS2 and scrounging migrants they should build better flood defences.
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That map puts sincil bank and blunder park under water at 9m too.
No loss there.
I see Hull would be pretty fecked also.
That’s a lot of displaced people.
Time to invest in a boat.
5 metres puts a lot of east London as a pond too. As well as Bermondsey. Which AL may want to take note of .
Can lions swim ?
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They will have to redesign parts of the hs2 network in a watertight tube.because rails won’t work under water .
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They will have to redesign parts of the hs2 network in a watertight tube.because rails won’t work under water .
Seaweed on the line.
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That map puts sincil bank and blunder park under water at 9m too.
No loss there.
I see Hull would be pretty fecked also.
That’s a lot of displaced people.
Time to invest in a boat.
5 metres puts a lot of east London as a pond too. As well as Bermondsey. Which AL may want to take note of .
Can lions swim ?
Haha, probably not. But we'll have all drowned in the sea of shit which Rowett serves up long before then. In the words of The Clash, 'I live by the river.'
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That model makes interesting viewing.just two metres and the isle of axholme is pretty much gone. Only good for picking sampher picking perhaps and twitching for sea birds. Plus parts of the M180.
When you get to double figures, the whole area from Brid to Driffield down to spurn point and Hull. All gone. Scunny ends up nearly an island.
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Perhaps a bit misleading, that map.
Water wouldn't just rush into all those areas at a couple of meters, some of it would remain dry below sea level. As the sea level rises more significantly though, to like 5m, then there would be no holding it back from large areas.
And 5 meters is by no means an unrealistic prediction.
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That model makes interesting viewing.just two metres and the isle of axholme is pretty much gone. Only good for picking sampher picking perhaps and twitching for sea birds. Plus parts of the M180.
When you get to double figures, the whole area from Brid to Driffield down to spurn point and Hull. All gone. Scunny ends up nearly an island.
The Island of the Damned?
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Cleethorpes, in the future.
(https://eyeonlatinamerica.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/panama-guna-yala-el-pais.jpg)
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2021/10/01/south-pole-coldest-winter-record/
Get wrapped up.
Just last year the papers were full of a massive sea ice chunk breaking off and heading to the island of South Georgia an old whaling station where they thought it would ground and slowly melt and change the whole eco system in that area and raise sea levels. I have not heard it has happened, could the scientists have been wrong just twelve months ago?
In the last few years we have been subjected to scientists saying the earth is warming up, the present favourite, a couple of years ago we are heading for a small ice age due to sun spots that determined our weather patterns the then flavour of the year. Take your pick one might just happen.
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I’m not one to be worried too much by things. My dad, god bless him, is a “I won’t be around for it to bother me type generation”
But I have genuine concerns about the future of life, in the uk as well as the wider world in coming decades.
This sat morning, out of interest, I’m getting up early, about 5-30 am and popping down to the local sea bank , which is only about 3 miles away from my house. Prior to weaving my way along Caistor high st to scunny of course.
I’m taking the dog for a walk, but sat morning around 6-30 am will be one of the higher tides of the year, coinciding with the relevant moon cycle. It’s about a 7.2 m tide. I’m interested to see just how high it is.
House wise, we probably have one more move left in us. Probably to a bungalow. I’m giving serious consideration to how high above sea level that property would be. Which would mean a move from Lincolnshire altogether.
It’s not really a thing currently in the housing market, but I can see it being the top priority for prospective house buyers in years to come.
And yet we still build houses on flood plains.
Beggars belief.
You could stay in Lincolnshire and move to the Lincolnshire Wolds, Caistor is on the Lincolnshire Wolds I think, if it isn’t it’s very close
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2021/10/01/south-pole-coldest-winter-record/
Get wrapped up.
Just last year the papers were full of a massive sea ice chunk breaking off and heading to the island of South Georgia an old whaling station where they thought it would ground and slowly melt and change the whole eco system in that area and raise sea levels. I have not heard it has happened, could the scientists have been wrong just twelve months ago?
In the last few years we have been subjected to scientists saying the earth is warming up, the present favourite, a couple of years ago we are heading for a small ice age due to sun spots that determined our weather patterns the then flavour of the year. Take your pick one might just happen.
The a South Pole experiencing the coldest winter on record is just another example of extreme weather, another example of the effects of global warming. Is this meant to reassure us?
Why don't you just admit, you really don't care?
There are very few who are prepared to admit it. I'd actually think more highly of your honesty if you did.
Edit: Selby, low lying, by the river Ouse. One of the most vulnerable places in the country to flooding.
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The wolds is an option. It’s a bit remote for the most part and gets some grim winters.plus the road network is pants.
Louth is very nice. But the Lincs wolds essentially becomes a Long Island, surrounded by water if predictions are right . North Sea to the east. Trent and witham valley to the west and south both of which will suffer with sea rise. Humber to the north of course.
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The wolds is an option. It’s a bit remote for the most part and gets some grim winters.plus the road network is pants.
Louth is very nice. But the Lincs wolds essentially becomes a Long Island, surrounded by water if predictions are right . North Sea to the east. Trent and witham valley to the west and south both of which will suffer with sea rise. Humber to the north of course.
Derbyshire it is then.
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Interestingly , most of the west coast, NW NE and Scotland are relatively untouched, even with significant sea level rise. The east coast though, SE and parts of the midlands are pretty fecked. And it won’t take much either. The Humber and Trent valley will put paid to that . And the larger water inlets in the SE.
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Looking at the global map, there aren't many places more vulnerable than the UK to sea level rise in Europe. The Netherlands of course but not that many. France will be largely untouched. Then again France will be baking hot in the summer.
My sister lives in Tottenham. It's a shite hole if you ask me but it's bloody London. She has a neighbour who can remember when it flooded. It was probably the storm surge of 53.
They better hope that Thames flood barrier is sufficient for the next time.
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Stop the lunacy and get this signed.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/599602/signatures/new
What's the point?
If we don't try and do this then we're f***ed.
And we aren't really trying anyway, most of the measures are either green wash or put off into the future.
The point is, it's the next battle in the far right's Culture War.
They fired up the impressionable over Brexit. Then they got the same people wound up over COVID conspiracies. Now they are aiming to get the same folk out in the streets ready to defend their right to f**k the planet.
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Page one in the Billy book of smears, ‘I don’t agree with it, therefore it’s far right’
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I can see all of you moving to Scawsby very soon.
Then you'll all be under my jurisdiction.
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Looking at the global map, there aren't many places more vulnerable than the UK to sea level rise in Europe. The Netherlands of course but not that many. France will be largely untouched. Then again France will be baking hot in the summer.
My sister lives in Tottenham. It's a shite hole if you ask me but it's bloody London. She has a neighbour who can remember when it flooded. It was probably the storm surge of 53.
They better hope that Thames flood barrier is sufficient for the next time.
It isn’t. It designed to defend against a surge. Rising seas will just go round it. Not only that, but it is placed to protect central London only.
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I can see all of you moving to Scawsby very soon.
Then you'll all be under my jurisdiction.
I'm sure I read that Scawsby had a massive cloud burst of rain a few years ago. The fields above the area became saturated and then a slurry of wet soil slid into the houses.
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Page one in the Billy book of smears, ‘I don’t agree with it, therefore it’s far right’
No. It's organised by the far right, therefore it's far right.
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''Half world’s fossil fuel assets could become worthless by 2036 in net zero transition''
It's already happening.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/ng-interactive/2021/nov/04/fossil-fuel-assets-worthless-2036-net-zero-transition
The government has known this has been coming for how long?
''Up to 80 workers at New South Wales' largest coal mine have been ordered by BHP to accept transfers to interstate mines or resign from their positions.
''MELBOURNE, April 30 (Reuters) - As BHP Group (BHP.AX) looks at options to spin off or sell its thermal coal assets, the miner is facing pressure from climate conscious investors who want divergent paths and that's even before getting to the tough task of finding a buyer.
The world’s largest miner has been in talks with stakeholders on its plans to divest the Mt. Arthur thermal coal mine, its stake in a steel-making coal project with Japan's Mitsui (8031.T) and a stake in a thermal coal mine in Colombia.
Some large shareholders are pushing the miner to exit immediately while other investors want a slower exit, to ensure the mine is wound down responsibly''
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-16/bhp-tells-miners-in-nsw-hunter-valley-move-interstate-or-resign/100460530
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They will replace coal mines with cobalt mines. For electric cars. I believe oz is the second biggest producer in the world.
It has its own health issues, and it f**ks local water supplies where it is mined.
It’s another mineral that in small doses is a good thing, but pulling it from th3 ground in the quantities needed to supply the world hunger for electric cars will not end well.
Then there is how to dispose of it.
To say lithium-ion batteries will become the new oil, but a low-carbon future will almost certainly mean high-cobalt energy storage. In 2017, the world’s battery makers used 41,000 tonnes of cobalt (a third of total production). By 2025, this is expected to increase to 117,000 tonnes.
The surge in production will increase the dangers of exposure to high doses. To prevent this, more studies and better safeguards are needed now – particularly in Congo and other countries where people and habitats are most at risk. Failure to do this will mean batteries wreck lives rather than saving the climate.
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Cobalt will be removed by new battery chemistries, because it is a high cost element.
The key to reducing costs is replacement of current battery technologies with new generation solid state;
https://cleantechnica.com/2021/10/29/solid-state-batteries-are-coming-solid-state-batteries-are-coming/
I agree that cobalt mining is highly problematic, but few think it is a long term player.
Innovation in the battery sector is backed by serious R+D budgets, and new chemistries have already been proven in the lab.
The pace of change is going to be rapid across the industry.
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Cleethorpes, in the future.
(https://eyeonlatinamerica.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/panama-guna-yala-el-pais.jpg)
That looks much nicer than Cleethorpes.
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I still find it difficult to understand why people seem to not care about the environment and planet, I really do. Maybe it's because I'm an outdoors person with a breathing condition affected by pollution.
The one thing that staggers me is that with Covid we've had isolation, masks, lockdowns etc to save lives. It's estimated 4 times as many people die every year because of pollution than because of Covid. It seems ok to accept pollution deaths but not Covid - that cannot be right.
Equally we shouldn't be removing quality of life because of climate change, pollution etc we should be investing properly in alternatives. That doesn't just include to oil or coal, but to plastics, transport, energy, farming - literally everything. As an outdoors person for example I need energy drinks (difficult to run marathons etc without them). Why can I only get them in single use plastic bottles? Why not reusable? Why have we no alternative to flying using aviation fuel as yet? It shouldn't be so hard to achieve. We often talk about the risk of automation/technology in employment, so why not train many more people in permanent jobs to solve these problems? If that means higher taxes so be it.
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I still find it difficult to understand why people seem to not care about the environment and planet, I really do. Maybe it's because I'm an outdoors person with a breathing condition affected by pollution.
The one thing that staggers me is that with Covid we've had isolation, masks, lockdowns etc to save lives. It's estimated 4 times as many people die every year because of pollution than because of Covid. It seems ok to accept pollution deaths but not Covid - that cannot be right.
Equally we shouldn't be removing quality of life because of climate change, pollution etc we should be investing properly in alternatives. That doesn't just include to oil or coal, but to plastics, transport, energy, farming - literally everything. As an outdoors person for example I need energy drinks (difficult to run marathons etc without them). Why can I only get them in single use plastic bottles? Why not reusable? Why have we no alternative to flying using aviation fuel as yet? It shouldn't be so hard to achieve. We often talk about the risk of automation/technology in employment, so why not train many more people in permanent jobs to solve these problems? If that means higher taxes so be it.
We're being taxed to death as it is. It's the only tune they know.
It's like electric cars, they should prove to us the advantages so we'd all get one, but no all they do is ban ICE and if you can't afford electric it's tough. Hopefully hydrogen will come to the rescue.
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Cleethorpes, in the future.
(https://eyeonlatinamerica.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/panama-guna-yala-el-pais.jpg)
That looks much nicer than Cleethorpes.
Yes, I think it's an island in the Pacific that has been inundated by the rising tides. I bet their fish and chips weren't as good.
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The wolds is an option. It’s a bit remote for the most part and gets some grim winters.plus the road network is pants.
Louth is very nice. But the Lincs wolds essentially becomes a Long Island, surrounded by water if predictions are right . North Sea to the east. Trent and witham valley to the west and south both of which will suffer with sea rise. Humber to the north of course.
Derbyshire it is then.
I already live here so suits me. :P
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So why did the Prime Minister have to get back to London from Glasgow COP 26 that he needed to charter a private jet?
The Daily Mail were interested, so they tailed him. He was met off the plane by an entourage of Range Rovers, that whisked him straight to London.
They went straight to the Garrick Club.
Yes, he wasted all that money and used all that CO2 to get back to his club for drinks. This is how seriously he takes it.
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How many foreign holidays has he had in the last few years too? During a feckin pandemic an all?!
I've been to Dunbar by car for 4 nights and spent a week in Westward Ho! in the summer but didn't go by helicopter. Citroen C3 was sufficient.
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Save your bottles and mix your own
https://www.woolworths.com.au/shop/productdetails/86696?produp=998387636®ion_id=201800&cq_src=GOOGLE&cq_cmp=Woolies_8458_BAU_Shopping_Smart_F%26B%20High_WW-0001&cq_con=SmartShopping_Food%26Beverages&cq_term=PRODUCT_GROUP&cq_net=u&cq_plt=gp&cq_med=71700000045164926&cq_gclid=EAIaIQobChMI9NnVsY-C9AIVWZJmAh1TBwADEAQYASABEgI2ffD_BwE&cmpid=smsm:ds:GOOGLE:Woolies_8458_BAU_Shopping_Smart_F%26B%20High_WW-0001:PRODUCT_GROUP&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI9NnVsY-C9AIVWZJmAh1TBwADEAQYASABEgI2ffD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
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Snakes in the grass.
There are more delegates at COP26 associated with the fossil fuel industry than from any single country, analysis shared with the BBC shows.
Campaigners led by Global Witness assessed the participant list published by the UN at the start of this meeting.
They found that 503 people with links to fossil fuel interests had been accredited for the climate summit.
These delegates are said to lobby for oil and gas industries, and campaigners say they should be banned.
"The fossil fuel industry has spent decades denying and delaying real action on the climate crisis, which is why this is such a huge problem," says Murray Worthy from Global Witness.
"Their influence is one of the biggest reasons why 25 years of UN climate talks have not led to real cuts in global emissions."
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Oz seem to be having trouble embracing electric cars.
https://youtu.be/fLflYkgnNBY
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Apparently COP are struggling to come to an agreement on firm commitments to keep the goal of 1.5C alive.
It's very difficult to understand how this can possibly be. I know 1.5C is an arbitrary figure really, 1.5C is by no means ideal it might well be too high but they must be aware of the consequences in letting it slip and surpassing it. 2C is, they think, the crucial point, where they expect feedback loops and a rapid acceleration toward 4C and basically the end of everything.
Half a degree isn't much leeway.
Humans struggle with slow moving things, but often things do move slowly and then fast and all at once. Look at the history of the economy for proof of this.
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Oz seem to be having trouble embracing electric cars.
https://youtu.be/fLflYkgnNBY
More than that NR the government has trouble recognising CC at all, period. Their climate change response has more in common with Tommy Cooper's bottle glass, glass bottle routine.
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Apparently COP are struggling to come to an agreement on firm commitments to keep the goal of 1.5C alive.
It's very difficult to understand how this can possibly be. I know 1.5C is an arbitrary figure really, 1.5C is by no means ideal it might well be too high but they must be aware of the consequences in letting it slip and surpassing it. 2C is, they think, the crucial point, where they expect feedback loops and a rapid acceleration toward 4C and basically the end of everything.
Half a degree isn't much leeway.
Humans struggle with slow moving things, but often things do move slowly and then fast and all at once. Look at the history of the economy for proof of this.
If you consider the global sacrifices that were imposed by covid lockdowns. The reality of what needs to happen to get climate change and global warming in check is like global lockdown, but multiplied many many times over. And for a considerable time.
Countries, governments , people, are simply not prepared to make this level of sacrifice. We will, as a race, pay a very heavy price for this.
They are saying that 2.5 degrees increase by end of this century is the current reality.
That will be catastrophic for eco systems across the globe.
Utterly devasting for Many low lying countries across every continent including the uk.
More extremes of weather. More drought, more floods, more famine. Extreme heat.
Biblical levels of migration.not economic, not fleeing conflict. But climate refugees.
Reports on the news tonight that Cape Town is the first major global city to run out of water. They are cutting down pine trees to try to stop them taking up,water.you cannot make this shit up.
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People might take this a bit more serious if they labelled it correctly!
Saving the planet?…..NO!
Saving parts of Humanity………very Probably!
The planet is going nowhere and will take care of whatever new environment it gets saddled with, however huge amounts of people will die……it’s by time the media used the correct wording if only as an impact statement…
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COP26 is looking like a disaster.
We are heading for a very bad place.
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A disaster indeed.
Here is a useful thread from Climate Action Tracker on the extent of the problem;
https://twitter.com/climateactiontr/status/1458072899122655236
The vested interests hold the political process in hock to their donations and sponsorships, so no surprise if they succeed in deflection via these international corporate lobby festivals.
It always amazes me when people think that these fundamental questions can be resolved through the economic systems which brought them about....they can't.
Not much chance of the toddlers running our political parties and country seeing that any time soon!
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As it is, this is a suicide pact.
They've got to do better than this, no matter how painful because failure to act will be worse. Obviously this still isn't fully understood yet.
It does highlight how vital coal is to India and China.
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''Half world’s fossil fuel assets could become worthless by 2036 in net zero transition''
It's already happening.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/ng-interactive/2021/nov/04/fossil-fuel-assets-worthless-2036-net-zero-transition
The government has known this has been coming for how long?
''Up to 80 workers at New South Wales' largest coal mine have been ordered by BHP to accept transfers to interstate mines or resign from their positions.
''MELBOURNE, April 30 (Reuters) - As BHP Group (BHP.AX) looks at options to spin off or sell its thermal coal assets, the miner is facing pressure from climate conscious investors who want divergent paths and that's even before getting to the tough task of finding a buyer.
The world’s largest miner has been in talks with stakeholders on its plans to divest the Mt. Arthur thermal coal mine, its stake in a steel-making coal project with Japan's Mitsui (8031.T) and a stake in a thermal coal mine in Colombia.
Some large shareholders are pushing the miner to exit immediately while other investors want a slower exit, to ensure the mine is wound down responsibly''
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-16/bhp-tells-miners-in-nsw-hunter-valley-move-interstate-or-resign/100460530
Very god Sydders, this is why your adoptive country has joined into a coaltion with the likes of China ,India and U.S, so you Ausies can carry on export ing $90 Billion AUS every year for a further 30 years, Ya dirty polluter!
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Not as newsworthy as a firestorm or a vast flood but the middle east from Turkey, through Jordan, Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan is currently suffering a drought of epic proportions.
This in a year of so many weather extremes.
https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2021/11/camels-weep-their-young-perish-syrias-killer-drought#ixzz7C5SgG1rU
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''Half world’s fossil fuel assets could become worthless by 2036 in net zero transition''
It's already happening.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/ng-interactive/2021/nov/04/fossil-fuel-assets-worthless-2036-net-zero-transition
The government has known this has been coming for how long?
''Up to 80 workers at New South Wales' largest coal mine have been ordered by BHP to accept transfers to interstate mines or resign from their positions.
''MELBOURNE, April 30 (Reuters) - As BHP Group (BHP.AX) looks at options to spin off or sell its thermal coal assets, the miner is facing pressure from climate conscious investors who want divergent paths and that's even before getting to the tough task of finding a buyer.
The world’s largest miner has been in talks with stakeholders on its plans to divest the Mt. Arthur thermal coal mine, its stake in a steel-making coal project with Japan's Mitsui (8031.T) and a stake in a thermal coal mine in Colombia.
Some large shareholders are pushing the miner to exit immediately while other investors want a slower exit, to ensure the mine is wound down responsibly''
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-16/bhp-tells-miners-in-nsw-hunter-valley-move-interstate-or-resign/100460530
Veru god Sydders, this is why your adoptive country has joined into a coaltion with the likes of China ,India and U.S, so you Ausies can carry on export ing $90 Billion AUS every year for a further 30 years, Ya dirty polluter!
Please understand sprot that I'm not a god and can't fix everything you tory voters support but I do my best which in many cases falls well short of the mark. I campaign against coal and gas and climate change and against governments that support the fossil fuel industries.
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What everyone can do which doesn't take a lot of effort is to email their pension fund, bank or whatever to ask them to only invest in ethical products and to disinvest in fossil fuels. Merely by asking will put these institutions on notice that the groundswell is building.
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The experts are predicting the reality of cop26 is that the world is going to suffer 2.4 degree raise in ave temp.
An utterly catastrophic legacy we leave for future generations.
And the crazy irony is that India is against phasing out coal. A country that is likely to be one of hardest hit.
Humanity will kill itself. And many other species while they are at it.
political bickering across the globe will be futile in the coming years.
Survival will be the only thing we have left.
I never thought I would imagine this, or even consider it a reality, but I believe the world, the whole world, and every culture and society are heading for a dystopian future.
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The experts are predicting the reality of cop26 is that the world is going to suffer 2.4 degree raise in ave temp.
An utterly catastrophic legacy we leave for future generations.
And the crazy irony is that India is against phasing out coal. A country that is likely to be one of hardest hit.
Humanity will kill itself. And many other species while they are at it.
political bickering across the globe will be futile in the coming years.
Survival will be the only thing we have left.
I never thought I would imagine this, or even consider it a reality, but I believe the world, the whole world, and every culture and society are heading for a dystopian future.
Angst is all well and good, what are you doing NR?
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India a country with a bigger space programme than our own, can’t get itself out of the Dirty Coal addiction. I have to say it Maggie Thatcher was a true visionary! And years ahead of her time, we can look back now and thank her for breaking our dirty Coal Habit.
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India a country with a bigger space programme than our own, can’t get itself out of the Dirty Coal addiction. I have to say it Maggie Thatcher was a true visionary! And years ahead of her time, we can look back now and thank her for breaking our dirty Coal Habit.
the biggest of all is inside your head sprot
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The experts are predicting the reality of cop26 is that the world is going to suffer 2.4 degree raise in ave temp.
An utterly catastrophic legacy we leave for future generations.
And the crazy irony is that India is against phasing out coal. A country that is likely to be one of hardest hit.
Humanity will kill itself. And many other species while they are at it.
political bickering across the globe will be futile in the coming years.
Survival will be the only thing we have left.
I never thought I would imagine this, or even consider it a reality, but I believe the world, the whole world, and every culture and society are heading for a dystopian future.
There are a whole lot of tipping points, that are estimated to be reached in the 1.5-2.0 degree of warming range. They can't be sure where these tipping points might be met, it's possible we have already reached one with ice melt.
These tipping points combined might quickly lead to other catastrophic tipping points being met in a cascade effect. Go beyond 2.0 degrees of warming and there are serious risks. It could very rapidly spiral above 4.0 degrees and that's goodnight. Reach 2.4 degrees is unthinkable. 1.5 degrees is more than risky enough.
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What everyone can do which doesn't take a lot of effort is to email their pension fund, bank or whatever to ask them to only invest in ethical products and to disinvest in fossil fuels. Merely by asking will put these institutions on notice that the groundswell is building.
Even less of an effort you could choose yourself what to invest your pension in, then you've full control.
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What everyone can do which doesn't take a lot of effort is to email their pension fund, bank or whatever to ask them to only invest in ethical products and to disinvest in fossil fuels. Merely by asking will put these institutions on notice that the groundswell is building.
Even less of an effort you could choose yourself what to invest your pension in, then you've full control.
This maybe true unless of course you are investing in shares, unit trusts or the like then you still have to check. The attractive part of pension funds I would think is that the average person (includes myself) does not have the facility to determine the risk of individual investments and therefore it is wise to spread it, which is why funds do well.
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The experts are predicting the reality of cop26 is that the world is going to suffer 2.4 degree raise in ave temp.
An utterly catastrophic legacy we leave for future generations.
And the crazy irony is that India is against phasing out coal. A country that is likely to be one of hardest hit.
Humanity will kill itself. And many other species while they are at it.
political bickering across the globe will be futile in the coming years.
Survival will be the only thing we have left.
I never thought I would imagine this, or even consider it a reality, but I believe the world, the whole world, and every culture and society are heading for a dystopian future.
Angst is all well and good, what are you doing NR?
I work from home. Probably never going on a foreign holiday again.
Keep heating down to a minimum.
Travel less. Stay local. Buy local produce.
We already eat very little red meat,
Keep recycling .
What else is there?
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If personal choices are all that can be done then we've got no chance. It helps but it's nowhere near enough. We need big strategic decisions on national and international levels to stop using hydrocarbons for power, heating and transport.
COP26 shows that the developing countries are (quite rightly) saying to us "But YOU built your economies and got rich using cheap oil and coal. If you're telling us we can't do that, put your hands in your pockets and spread the proceeds around. Otherwise we'll continue on the path to Hell that you laid out."
I can see Drax from the end of our road. For most of my life, every time I've out the lights on or boiled a kettle, that monster had been polluting the planet. Why should the next generation of Indian kids be deprived that cheap energy without expecting me to pay to help them get clean energy?
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Unfortunately remaining on the path to hell is not going to improve living standards in Asia for very long. This must be understood.
It maybe unfair but I can't see that there is any alternative, the scale of cuts in emissions means all are going to have to make sacrifices.
If it seems unfair on Asia, then it is really unfair on Africa and South America but we can't afford for these areas to develope with fossil fuels.
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Maybe people in these countries could help by not having loads of kids. The number one problem in the world is overpopulation. End of.
Alleged climate change is just one more symptom of this illness.
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I mentioned India, but the Uk is directly in the firing line for sea level rises.
And the govt of the uk, current and future are in no way prepared for this.
Neither are the people.
In time, there are going to be millions displaced. And that’s just in the uk.
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Kids in the developing world have a tiny carbon footprint.
It's westerners with big cars, central heating systems, air con and a penchant for red meat and foreign holidays who are the main culprits.
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I watched top gear last night. And who doesn’t love top gear?
This is a programme that is watched by tens of millions around the world in various languages.
They promote gas guzzling super cars amongst other things.
It glorifies petrol consumption. And they spend a lot of money doing this .
Speed, power, emissions, pollution.
Specials across the world where they tackle dangerous roads etc. And then ship their damaged cars back on planes at huge expense. Because they like them.
This programme is the very epitome of all that is wrong when we consider our fossil fuel use. For us to change, for us to really change , this programme, along with many like it has to alter its approach. Radically.
And right there is the very crux of how much, as a society, we must change, especially in developed countries to make a real difference to climate change.
I watched the repeat of the Nepal trip they did yesterday afternoon before the new series started.
They quite literally dragged three cars around the himalaya. One eventually being abandoned in the middle of no where after spewing half its engine of oil all over.
All in the name of entertainment?
They then got three super cars and ragged them around silverstone. Belching high levels of pollution no doubt. For fun. To see who was fastest. Why?
The carbon footprint of this programme over the years must be collosal.
Enjoyment over survival?
Travel over environment?
Money over climate poverty?
To many , a programme such as this would be sacrilege. Oh no , you can’t get rid of top gear I hear the cry. It won’t be the same without super cars.
And that, is where we fail.
Because our collective attitude to real change is that it is too much for us to bear.
We don’t like change. Especially when it affects our very own lives.
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NR, I watched Top Gear with much the same feelings. I used to enjoy it, back when the Clarkson and Co were younger. This group don't have the opinions or wit to keep it interesting.
But the overriding impression I got watching last night was one of excess and needless waste. I had to turn it off half way through.
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RD. I suspect, sadly you will be in the minority.
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It’s only a matter of time before the bbc come under pressure form climate change groups to change tack on their programme.
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RD. I suspect, sadly you will be in the minority.
The number of massive SUVs we see on the road suggests so.
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RD. I suspect, sadly you will be in the minority.
link=topic=280465.msg1104356#msg1104356 date=1636985412]
RD. I suspect, sadly you will be in the minority.
[/quote]
Count me in with the minority, I have never watched the programme even from back in the days of Raymond Baxter!
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I mentioned India, but the Uk is directly in the firing line for sea level rises.
And the govt of the uk, current and future are in no way prepared for this.
Neither are the people.
In time, there are going to be millions displaced. And that’s just in the uk.
It's not a problem, the government will give the displaced Brits a four bed house to live in somewhere nice. I believe that's the usual procedure for refugees.
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The global decision-makers are the money men, they probably see Climate change as a massive opportunity for a double whammy. Keep milking the fossil fuels and driving climate change until the natural disasters are so frequent and severe that nations across the globe are willing to pay whatever it takes for technology to reverse the calamity... and the money men are quids in... again.
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But what do the money men do when it is so hot they cannot breathe?
What do the money men do when the sea is lapping at their door?
What do the money men do when their inner city mansions are surrounded by water?
What do the money men do when their people are literally fighting each other for food, space and water.
What do money men do when all they have left is money. And nothing to spend it on.because there is nothing left to buy?
The only asset left will be life itself.
Survival.
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I have been watching Universe. Which is fascinating.
My wife refuses to watch it , simply because she cannot get her head around some of the things that are talked about On this programme.
I tried explaining to her that some of the twinkling lights in the night sky is light that is 4000 yrs old . The light originated when the Egyptians walked the earth 2000 yrs bc. And this is just the youngest stars.
I get the distinct impression, many of this world population see climate change the same way. They simply cannot comprehend what is happening. What has happened. What is fact. What is real. What exists. Because we only see what is In Front of us in our generation. In our 70-90 yrs ish.
we have no concept of the universe being billions of years old. We fail to recognise the big picture.
Our time here is limited.
Humanities time on earth is limited too.
We just don’t see it.
And we won’t.
Until it is too late.
I believe it already is.
My dad, age 74, god bless him, sums up the general mood. “I won’t be around for it to bother me “
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We have just got our first quote in for solar panel, around $7k for a 6.6kw system (with govt rebates) but we will probably have to pay a couple of grand more for optimisers as we have shade issues.
When we have selected the system we want we will look to change from gas storage to an electric hws and then from gas cooking to electric (induction) a conventional electric oven won't make a great deal of diff' but if anyone cooks with an induction top please post your experiences.
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Induction hobs are superb. Had one for 5 years and I wouldn't dream of changing. Lightning fast, efficient, easy to clean. Cheap enough to buy too. It's a no brainer.
Similarly a boiling water tap. No more boiling a litre of water for a cuppa. And the hot water available instantly.
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cheers for that billy
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No problems SR. The boiling water tap is brilliant. Apart from the convenience, it uses about 10% of the electricity that you'd use if you had a kettle on 8 times a day for 2-3 minutes each time.
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Ok thanks I'll check it out, the only time I've seen anything similar here is a Zip heater which is just an after market v-small instantaneous water heater above the sink, normally in an office situation.
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I have been watching Universe. Which is fascinating.
My wife refuses to watch it , simply because she cannot get her head around some of the things that are talked about On this programme.
I tried explaining to her that some of the twinkling lights in the night sky is light that is 4000 yrs old . The light originated when the Egyptians walked the earth 2000 yrs bc. And this is just the youngest stars.
I get the distinct impression, many of this world population see climate change the same way. They simply cannot comprehend what is happening. What has happened. What is fact. What is real. What exists. Because we only see what is In Front of us in our generation. In our 70-90 yrs ish.
we have no concept of the universe being billions of years old. We fail to recognise the big picture.
Our time here is limited.
Humanities time on earth is limited too.
We just don’t see it.
And we won’t.
Until it is too late.
I believe it already is.
My dad, age 74, god bless him, sums up the general mood. “I won’t be around for it to bother me “
Quite poetic and profound NR.
I was once chatting with my best mate and his wife and I said something like, that happened about a hundred years ago, so not long at all. She looked at me puzzled and says, it's longer than I'll live, that's a longtime if you ask me.
She's very smart, much better qualified than me, in computing but it struck me what a short term view of the world that is. In the grand scheme of things, a century is just the blink of an eye. But some see it as a lifetime. Forever. If I say that we've only had mass market aviation for 50 years, going holiday abroad is a new idea, then there are many who think, well that's longer than I've been alive, it's the way things have always been and will be.
A big part of the problem with climate change is getting people to comprehend timescales.
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Fossil fuels are the product of millions and millions of years. It's like a battery that has been trickle charged with the energy of the sun, through plants and organisms absorbing and storing that energy.
And we've released vast proportion of that energy and carbon in the space of a century, the majority of it in the last thirty years. On the planetary scale that really is the blink of an eye.
When you think of it that way, isn't it obvious that such a sudden, dramatic change is bound to have consequences? Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.
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There's the old story about the senior Chinese Communist politician in the 1960s who was asked what he thought about the French Revolution. He pondered for a while, then said "It is too soon to tell."
Chinese leaders used to have a reputation for seeing the long game. I hope to God they do over climate change.
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Brexit supporters see the “long game”.
Sorry, couldn’t help it.
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Kids in the developing world have a tiny carbon footprint.
It's westerners with big cars, central heating systems, air con and a penchant for red meat and foreign holidays who are the main culprits.
Damn!
That’s me summed up, love my 2 holidays a year, love a good steak once a fortnight, drive a SUV and have just recently got a new boiler ……..
But I’m not so sure that these little luxuries are really affecting anything!
I mean ! what should I do as an alternative ?
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Kids in the developing world have a tiny carbon footprint.
It's westerners with big cars, central heating systems, air con and a penchant for red meat and foreign holidays who are the main culprits.
Damn!
That’s me summed up, love my 2 holidays a year, love a good steak once a fortnight, drive a SUV and have just recently got a new boiler ……..
But I’m not so sure that these little luxuries are really affecting anything!
I mean ! what should I do as an alternative ?
It’s an interesting question. I’d love to have my own wind turbine in my back garden.
But planning laws, nimby attitudes etc prevents this.
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Kids in the developing world have a tiny carbon footprint.
It's westerners with big cars, central heating systems, air con and a penchant for red meat and foreign holidays who are the main culprits.
Damn!
That’s me summed up, love my 2 holidays a year, love a good steak once a fortnight, drive a SUV and have just recently got a new boiler ……..
But I’m not so sure that these little luxuries are really affecting anything!
I mean ! what should I do as an alternative ?
You're right there clearly is no alternative. Not until nature forces an alternative upon us.
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With global warming we won’t need to go abroad soon.
Palm trees in Balby next ?
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Here is an article about adding hydrogen to natural gas, it's far from plain sailing.
''Is hydrogen the solution to net-zero home heating?''
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/mar/21/is-hydrogen-the-solution-to-net-zero-home-heating
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Speaking of hydrogen, are people aware than Sheffield has one of the very few hydrogen filling stations in the uk?
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''This future of cheap power is already here — at least sometimes.
Last Saturday in South Australia, renewables accounted for a staggering 135 per cent of total demand, breaking the world record for the proportion of solar and wind supplied to a large grid.
As a result of all this excess generation, the spot price of power fell to minus $35.95 per megawatt hour.
Energy generation was curtailed, batteries charged up, and the excess exported to Victoria, which is connected to the SA grid.
"It's a glimpse of the future," says Frank Jotzo, a professor of climate change economics at Australian National University (ANU).
"The direction of travel in Australia for electricity prices is very clearly down."
https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2021-12-03/solar-power-how-cheap-will-it-get-household-electricity-bill/100664690
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What a great photo
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-09/how-nottingham-plans-to-become-first-uk-net-zero-city/100599878
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I wonder if anyone has thought of skinning electric cars with solar cells?
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This annual race has been running for some time and there is work going on for flexible panels even talk about power producing paint.
https://alicespringsnews.com.au/2021/11/19/solar-race-fingers-crossed/
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Despite the government's attempts to keep coal on life support .............
''''Australia’s coal-fired power plants likely to shut almost three times faster than expected, report suggests
Latest blueprint by Aemo says grid has already ‘outpaced all expectations’ and anticipates ninefold increase in wind and solar by 2050''
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/dec/10/australias-coal-fired-power-plants-likely-to-shut-almost-three-times-faster-than-expected-report-suggests
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Nothing about climate change in the news for a while. Must have disappeared.......
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Nothing about climate change in the news for a while. Must have disappeared.......
It's not the hot topic at the moment cdh.
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Nothing about climate change in the news for a while. Must have disappeared.......
We're all gonna die of summet else at the minute!
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There’s plenty of new news on this. 26 m people across Kenya and Sudan starving, the killer tornado in us, claimed to be the biggest ever to hit Tennessee. Rainforests in a Indonesia being ripped up to create bio fuel. All being linked to climate change news.
Meantime in the uk, the daily mail has Shirley Ballas on the front page because she has hair extensions age 62. Oh and the Xmas party fiasco of course.
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Nothing about climate change in the news for a while. Must have disappeared.......
Fake news. Just an excuse for us to pay more tax. I wonder what they're going do do when they've screwed every last penny out of us?
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The Thwaites glacier is dumping 8 times more of its ice into the ocean than it was 10 years ago. Due to warming seas.
Doesn’t sound like much, but this glacier is the size of the whole of GB.
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The highest temperature ever recorded in the Arctic, 38C (100F), has been officially confirmed, sounding "alarm bells" over Earth's changing climate.
The World Meteorological Organization (WMO) on Tuesday verified the record, reported in the Siberian town of Verkhoyansk on 20 June last year.
The temperature was 18C higher than the area's average daily maximum for June.
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You will be pleased to know that the world record for the amount of coal burnt in the world was reported to have been set just last week. Britain to it's shame hardly took part in this momentous moment.
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You will be pleased to know that the world record for the amount of coal burnt in the world was reported to have been set just last week. Britain to it's shame hardly took part in this momentous moment.
You're a very strange character.
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Just thought ir was such an ironic fact that in the face of all the save the world popularity and the war against burning coal the world powers that be burn more coal than ever before in their quest for power.
Say one thing do another comes to mind. The food and wine were good in Glasgow though, and most of the unwashed swallowed what was said.
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What percentage of that coal was burned by China and India though?
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Don't forget the Yanks
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European gas prices hitting new highs again.
Gazprom limiting supplies into Europe apparently.
I wonder, faced with energy bills becoming something like 75% higher in the spring, how many wouldn't welcome new exploration in the North Sea and fracking back on the agenda?
It does feel like we're approaching crunch time, can we really transition to green energy, will it really be reliable and affordable?
Looking at the way we are still so reliant on gas and the way manufacturing nations are still gobbling up coal, I can't say I'm confident.
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As you are aware RD gas is a fossil fuel marginally or no better than coal, it will take a massive effort to persuade the irrationals to tackle the amount of change that will be required to solve this one.
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Maybe we could stop demonising Russia and try to get on with them for a change?
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Maybe we could stop demonising Russia and try to get on with them for a change?
Well they have made some changes to the UK already
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Maybe we could stop demonising Russia and try to get on with them for a change?
Getting on with Russia seems to involve handing over Ukraine, and abandoning the Baltics, Poland and the Balcans to their fate.
And then there is still no guarantee of cheap reliable gas supplies.
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Maybe we could stop demonising Russia and try to get on with them for a change?
Getting on with Russia seems to involve handing over Ukraine, and abandoning the Baltics, Poland and the Balcans to their fate.
And then there is still no guarantee of cheap reliable gas supplies.
How many times do have to carryy on interfering in the business of other nations. If the west would stop trying to muscle in on Russia's sphere of influence none of this would be happening. The EU engineered the overthrow of the legitmate Ukraine government to install the current regime. Why should we put our neck on the line for the baltic states, what have they ever done for us?
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Or half of Europe during World War ll?
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As you are aware RD gas is a fossil fuel marginally or no better than coal, it will take a massive effort to persuade the irrationals to tackle the amount of change that will be required to solve this one.
Gas is actually much less productive of CO2 than coal for the same amount of energy produced.
Burning 1kg of anthracite releases about 3kg of CO2 and produces about 9kWh of heat.
Burning 1kg of methane releases about 2.75kg of CO2 and produces over 14kWh of heat.
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Maybe we could stop demonising Russia and try to get on with them for a change?
Getting on with Russia seems to involve handing over Ukraine, and abandoning the Baltics, Poland and the Balcans to their fate.
And then there is still no guarantee of cheap reliable gas supplies.
How many times do have to carryy on interfering in the business of other nations. If the west would stop trying to muscle in on Russia's sphere of influence none of this would be happening. The EU engineered the overthrow of the legitmate Ukraine government to install the current regime. Why should we put our neck on the line for the baltic states, what have they ever done for us?
Places like Lithuania and Poland don't believe they are in Russia sphere of influence anymore. They overwhelmingly voted to join the EU. They now have democratic traditions, the people in these countries don't want to be a part of a new Russian empire, simple as that. Poland is a member of Nato.
Russia may not like it but times have changed.
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Maybe we could stop demonising Russia and try to get on with them for a change?
Getting on with Russia seems to involve handing over Ukraine, and abandoning the Baltics, Poland and the Balcans to their fate.
And then there is still no guarantee of cheap reliable gas supplies.
How many times do have to carryy on interfering in the business of other nations. If the west would stop trying to muscle in on Russia's sphere of influence none of this would be happening. The EU engineered the overthrow of the legitmate Ukraine government to install the current regime. Why should we put our neck on the line for the baltic states, what have they ever done for us?
Another bit of homework for you.
Look up "quarrel in a far away country, between people of whom we know nothing".
You'll find it educational.
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Maybe we could stop demonising Russia and try to get on with them for a change?
Getting on with Russia seems to involve handing over Ukraine, and abandoning the Baltics, Poland and the Balcans to their fate.
And then there is still no guarantee of cheap reliable gas supplies.
How many times do have to carryy on interfering in the business of other nations. If the west would stop trying to muscle in on Russia's sphere of influence none of this would be happening. The EU engineered the overthrow of the legitmate Ukraine government to install the current regime. Why should we put our neck on the line for the baltic states, what have they ever done for us?
Another bit of homework for you.
Look up "quarrel in a far away country, between people of whom we know nothing".
You'll find it educational.
Yes i know all about it thanks. Two world wars neither of which we needed to involved with. It's funny how they only want to know us when the fighting kicks off. If they are that bothered about being in the EU let them sort it out, it's not our quarrel. Anyone who thinks any good can come from picking a fight with Russia is off their head. We've lost the lives of too many service people over the past few years for nothing, we don't want to lose any more. Let these countries stand up for themselves, we are not the world's police man.
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Remind me not to call the fire brigade should “Little Englander Towers” in The Isle catch fire, as it’s none of my business and I shouldn’t get involved.
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Remind me not to call the fire brigade should “Little Englander Towers” in The Isle catch fire, as it’s none of my business and I shouldn’t get involved.
What good can come from war mongering and interfering in the affairs of other nations?
Will we ever learn?
WW1
WW2
BOSNIA
IRAQ
AFGHANISTAN
How many more British dead?
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You can go back a bit further in time than that if you want AL.
UK has a proud history of interfering in the affairs of other nations, generally to it’s own national benefit at the expense of those other nations.
And how many dead, never mind just British.
Though I am with you if you mean wars never solve anything: “jaw jaw is better than war-war”.
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As you are aware RD gas is a fossil fuel marginally or no better than coal, it will take a massive effort to persuade the irrationals to tackle the amount of change that will be required to solve this one.
Gas is actually much less productive of CO2 than coal for the same amount of energy produced.
Burning 1kg of anthracite releases about 3kg of CO2 and produces about 9kWh of heat.
Burning 1kg of methane releases about 2.75kg of CO2 and produces over 14kWh of heat.
There's a lot of fugitive emissions to take into consideration and the age and efficiency of the plant producing the power, bst.
Added
I guess the age of a coal plant make a difference too.
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It's not just unseasonably warm here.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/31/24c-in-spain-15c-in-the-alps-oddly-warm-end-to-2021-in-parts-of-europe
Heatwaves in parts of the US and wildfires in Colarado.
Christ knows what new extremes we're going to see this coming summer.
Happy New Year.