Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: tyke1962 on June 26, 2021, 12:50:36 pm
-
For some reason nobody has started a debate on this forthcoming byelection so I thought it would make for an interesting topic .
Plenty of soundbites coming out of Labour HQ insisting this isn't Hartlepool , thanks for the geography lesson Sir Keith .
Galloway seems to have attracted the muslim vote who make up 1/5th of the electorate on a anti Israeli ticket which seems particularly extraordinary given Batley isn't situated near the Gazza strip but that's George for you .
Labour's choice of candidate and how she was chosen to stand is perhaps an indication on how desperate they are for their chances at this byelection .
I understand the Tory candidate didn't have the good grace to turn up for a public debate with the other contenders the other night .
The Tories may arrogantly feel they already have this in the bag or they are keen to avoid Mr Galloway who is possibly one of the best debaters around in UK politics whether you agree with him or not .
Interesting to see how this plays out with such a collection of flawed and divisive characters up for representation .
-
Labour's choice of candidate?
A local woman. Sister of an MP who was chased and shot dead in those very streets by a nationalist maniac.
And yesterday, the Labour candidate was chased through Batley by a Galloway supporter shouting anti-gay abuse at her. While Galloway stood and watched not 109 yards away.
The man is despicable. Taking Putin's coin to spread hate and division through the left. A f**king disgrace to the country and to politics.
-
The 'Galloway supporter' who chased Ms Leadbeater was a property developer from Birmingham who is reportedly a friend of far-right polemicist Katie Hopkins.
I can't imagine having far-right 'supporters' like that will help George's claim to be the supporter of the ordinary person in the street too much.
-
I have always thought the Tories would win this, big Brexit vote and lack of enthusiasm for Starmer's labour here - but now given the Hancock farce I am not so sure. The public are very good at teaching politicians and political parties they don't like a lesson.
-
And he was videoed up on a stand yesterday, screaming for people to vote for Galloway and reject Labour, while Galloway stood 2 yards away watching approvingly and not saying one word to contradict him.
Not sure you're getting this Wilts. Galloway's job is not to get elected. It's to stop Labour winning.
-
Labour's choice of candidate?
A local woman. Sister of an MP who was chased and shot dead in those very streets by a nationalist maniac.
And yesterday, the Labour candidate was chased through Batley by a Galloway supporter shouting anti-gay abuse at her. While Galloway stood and watched not 109 yards away.
The man is despicable. Taking Putin's coin to spread hate and division through the left. A f**king disgrace to the country and to politics.
The murder of Jo Cox was a despicable act and I was as shocked and saddened as anyone .
My point is Kim Leadbetter is on the record as disengaged from politics following her sister's murder and wasn't even a member of the Labour party until recently
This is an election to decide who best represents the constituency and the murder of her sister isn't relevant , as harsh as that may come across .
Whether she's had her hand put behind her back to fight this election I obviously don't know but given Labour's present situation it's worthy of debate none the less without you adopting your usual anti right wing rhetoric and guilt tripping .
The best person for the job Billy , nowt more than that is my point .
If any of the candidates would like to step forward and explain to the electorate of Batley why a school teacher from the area is still in hiding for fear of his life I'd like to hear it .
Local candidates would be even more welcome if they are playing the " I understand local issues card " .
-
So who would you vote for in that election Tyke?
-
So who would you vote for in that election Tyke?
As a local I don't think I'd be voting for anyone on the basis nobody seems to have the minerals to speak out on the teacher still in hiding .
If you put a gun to my head then I'd vote for the Yorkshire Party .
-
I live in Batley. It’s absolutely impossible to vote for anyone other than Labour here. The Tories are likely to take the seat though due to Galloway splitting the labour vote. He’s a vile man, causing racial division for personal gain.
I really don’t understand how the Muslim population can think handing the Tories an extra seat can be a positive thing for their campaign for Palestine.
I think a lot of their anger stems from not getting a Muslim representative as the labour candidate. Everything I’ve seen from Kim indicates she has the best candidate by a million miles, genuinely cares about the region and has bundles of energy to throw at the cause.
-
The focus on Galloway is a real shame in that it will give an easy point of blame when Labour lose this seat.
Just 18% of people polled in the constituency think Starmer would make a better Prime Minister than Boris.
I genuinely hope Galloway doesn't get enough votes that it will have any impact on the result as its another chance for the party to lay the blame somewhere else instead of accepting what's coming their way in the next General Election.
-
Well it's alright saying this and that about Galloway and his motives for standing at this byelection but it doesn't alter the fact that Labour aren't cutting through .
If they were it wouldn't make a jot of difference who stood against them next week .
I understand the muslim Labour support was always historically pretty strong in the area so if Galloway is taking that away then surely Labour haven't stepped up to the mark in Batley .
I despair at times with the blame shifting rhetoric , if you can't get elected in an extremely winnable seat then perhaps it's time to look in the mirror .
The Muslim vote only counts for 20% of the electorate when all is said and done .
-
This is the sort of person that Galloway is.
https://mobile.twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/1408783112809684992
Someone described his approach as Seagull Politics. Fly in. Make unpleasant noises. Shit everywhere then fly off.
-
This is the sort of person that Galloway is.
https://mobile.twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/1408783112809684992
Someone described his approach as Seagull Politics. Fly in. Make unpleasant noises. Shit everywhere then fly off.
Your looking at this the wrong way Billy , if Galloway is taking Labour votes then what does that tell us about the present day Labour Party ? .
-
Tyke.
Look at how he is doing it. And tell me how you are supposed to deal with that.
As I've said, Galloway has ONE aim. To take enough votes from Labour to make sure they lose the seat.
He is targeting two groups. Left singers who want Starmer out. Anti-Semitic, anti-LGBT radicals in the Muslim community.
You tell me how Labour should address that.
-
Tyke.
Look at how he is doing it. And tell me how you are supposed to deal with that.
As I've said, Galloway has ONE aim. To take enough votes from Labour to make sure they lose the seat.
He is targeting two groups. Left singers who want Starmer out. Anti-Semitic, anti-LGBT radicals in the Muslim community.
You tell me how Labour should address that.
First of all Billy , Galloway is perfectly entitled to stand in a byelection on any ticket he chooses in a democracy as were the BNP or the old National Front for example .
I go back to cutting through again which rises above the other candidates .
A vision and policies which bring people together , at present Starmer can't bring his own party together so who on earth is going to trust him to bring the country together ? .
A vision and policies Billy that take the electorate with you .
He looks incapable of becoming that man , the whole party is a shambles from top to bottom and in opposition .
Instinctively people will go with those who hold power under such circumstances if the opposition aren't up to it .
That's why Blair won three elections as much as anything because the Tories were a shambles in opposition .
It's up to Labour to come up with the solutions and become electable and cut through .
Criticising the government only goes so far , never mind about Galloway what are you going to do ? .
People take one look at Starmer and think no thanks I'll stick with the devil in office .
-
I see Galloway has learnt from the 1964 Smethwick election.
-
Worth noting those who would perhaps vote labour have contrasting views on many things isn't it? It's all well and good criticising the labour party for not meeting all those views but frankly in some cases they aren't compatible.
-
Worth noting those who would perhaps vote labour have contrasting views on many things isn't it? It's all well and good criticising the labour party for not meeting all those views but frankly in some cases they aren't compatible.
Nobody expects the Labour Party to be a one size fits all bfyp , well I certainly don't despite certain accusations levelled against me on this board .
I spent the best part of 20 years in the trade union movement compromising so I don't need any lessons on that .
My personal view is and one shared by many on what is now known as the legacy left is that it's almost impossible to achieve a compromise with the centre of the Labour Movement and the metropolitan , graduate Labour voter .
These fractures started in the mid 90's when quite rightly by the way Blair went after the middle class vote that enabled him to crush the Tories so emphatically in 1997 .
From that point on the seeds were sown that's put the party in the position it finds itself today .
All the New Labour eggs went in to one basket with people like Mandelson saying well " the northern working class have no where else to go " so basically feck em .
I went to a couple of Labour Party conferences through my trade union in the 90's and they looked down on us like we were a piece of shyte on their expensive shoes whilst they courted bankers and big business people .
I saw this with my own eyes , old NUM lads wanting a word on the pensions , vibration white finger or all the other things connected with mining , they wouldn't give you 20 seconds of their time never mind speak at one of the many meetings that week that form part of a conference .
Then of course clause 4 was sent packing , this no longer becomes a perception this thing becomes reality .
By their own admission they didn't do enough in the post industrial heartlands , that's on the record by the way .
13 years they had in power , just absorb that fact .
I'm supposed to go along with shyte and get guilt tripped in to the notion that any Labour government is better than the Tories , that's not necessarily true because if it was the Tories wouldn't have the gains they have today in the former industrial heartlands .
Once Mandelson came back from the dead under Sir Keith that was the final straw , I even lived with the fact they couldn't even stay true to their own election manifesto on brexit and that they plotted almost everyday to bring the then leader of their party down despite the bloke winning two leadership contests emphatically whether you agreed with him or not and in opposition .
Starmer then wins the leadership on a promise to work on the work Corbyn started and be the electable and acceptable face and then picks fights with the trade unions and purges the left .
With my background and seen this all before who on earth could carry on supporting this shyte show .
Who in their right mind puts up a pro EU candidate in Hartlepool when the town voted over 70% to leave the European Union ? .
You'll rip the pyss out of me no longer and the chips fall where they fall .
There's only so much one can stomach and that's that , I've given it a good go for more years than I should have .
Feck em .
-
https://twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1409126784017342465?s=21
Putting my thoughts across more articulately.
-
The focus on Galloway is a real shame in that it will give an easy point of blame when Labour lose this seat.
Just 18% of people polled in the constituency think Starmer would make a better Prime Minister than Boris.
I genuinely hope Galloway doesn't get enough votes that it will have any impact on the result as its another chance for the party to lay the blame somewhere else instead of accepting what's coming their way in the next General Election.
Labour supporters already have their excuses in place Wes if they don’t win this by election.
That poll you mention suggests that Galloway isn’t the only problem.
-
None of which will be:
We focused too much on trying to smear George Galloway and did very little to actually promote what we have done during our time in charge of this constituency.
We've still not addressed any of the issues that emanated from Hartlepool in terms of people knowing what the Labour Party stands for anymore.
The continuity candidate still hasn't done a single thing since taking leadership to suggest he still wants any actual left wing voters to give them a cross at the ballot box (and there's nearly always another choice on the paper).
Sadly I can't see them taking heed and booting Starmer until the next general election, Doncaster will almost certainly be under 3 Tory MPs.
-
The focus on Galloway is a real shame in that it will give an easy point of blame when Labour lose this seat.
Just 18% of people polled in the constituency think Starmer would make a better Prime Minister than Boris.
I genuinely hope Galloway doesn't get enough votes that it will have any impact on the result as its another chance for the party to lay the blame somewhere else instead of accepting what's coming their way in the next General Election.
Labour supporters already have their excuses in place Wes if they don’t win this by election.
That poll you mention suggests that Galloway isn’t the only problem.
Is this the real hound finally showing his colours, fell of the fence hound?
-
None of which will be:
We focused too much on trying to smear George Galloway and did very little to actually promote what we have done during our time in charge of this constituency.
We've still not addressed any of the issues that emanated from Hartlepool in terms of people knowing what the Labour Party stands for anymore.
The continuity candidate still hasn't done a single thing since taking leadership to suggest he still wants any actual left wing voters to give them a cross at the ballot box (and there's nearly always another choice on the paper).
Sadly I can't see them taking heed and booting Starmer until the next general election, Doncaster will almost certainly be under 3 Tory MPs.
Not sure it can be called 'smear' when it appears to be accurate?
-
https://twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1409126784017342465?s=21
Putting my thoughts across more articulately.
thanks Gaz, he's a good speaker, first time I've heard him.
-
Mason is an interesting case. He's a Marxist by belief, but he has the common sense to know that compromises are necessary on the Left. And that a Labour party in power, even if it is not your ideal, is infinitely better than the party that you want it to be in opposition. He supported Corbym with criticisms. He supports Starmer, with criticisms. What he doesn't ever do is wish the Tories beat Labour in order to win an argument. The Labour party needs a lot more like him.
-
None of which will be:
We focused too much on trying to smear George Galloway and did very little to actually promote what we have done during our time in charge of this constituency.
We've still not addressed any of the issues that emanated from Hartlepool in terms of people knowing what the Labour Party stands for anymore.
The continuity candidate still hasn't done a single thing since taking leadership to suggest he still wants any actual left wing voters to give them a cross at the ballot box (and there's nearly always another choice on the paper).
Sadly I can't see them taking heed and booting Starmer until the next general election, Doncaster will almost certainly be under 3 Tory MPs.
Not sure it can be called 'smear' when it appears to be accurate?
In the last 24 hours some of the worst photoshopped images of Galloway holding guns have been shared on Twitter, I've yet to decide whether its been done maliciously or for humour, if its the latter it really isn't funny in the slightest. Its also the kind of behaviour that plays straight into his hands.
-
None of which will be:
We focused too much on trying to smear George Galloway and did very little to actually promote what we have done during our time in charge of this constituency.
We've still not addressed any of the issues that emanated from Hartlepool in terms of people knowing what the Labour Party stands for anymore.
The continuity candidate still hasn't done a single thing since taking leadership to suggest he still wants any actual left wing voters to give them a cross at the ballot box (and there's nearly always another choice on the paper).
Sadly I can't see them taking heed and booting Starmer until the next general election, Doncaster will almost certainly be under 3 Tory MPs.
Not sure it can be called 'smear' when it appears to be accurate?
In the last 24 hours some of the worst photoshopped images of Galloway holding guns have been shared on Twitter, I've yet to decide whether its been done maliciously or for humour, if its the latter it really isn't funny in the slightest. Its also the kind of behaviour that plays straight into his hands.
Very true, often attacking someone can make them stronger if many perceive those being attacked are being attacked unfairly. He's very clever at twisting those things around as are many on the extremes, Farage another. Even a big part of Corbyn was that attacking him just strengthened the resolve of those who supported him.
-
The focus on Galloway is a real shame in that it will give an easy point of blame when Labour lose this seat.
Just 18% of people polled in the constituency think Starmer would make a better Prime Minister than Boris.
I genuinely hope Galloway doesn't get enough votes that it will have any impact on the result as its another chance for the party to lay the blame somewhere else instead of accepting what's coming their way in the next General Election.
Labour supporters already have their excuses in place Wes if they don’t win this by election.
That poll you mention suggests that Galloway isn’t the only problem.
Is this the real hound finally showing his colours, fell of the fence hound?
Sorry Sydney, I don’t understand the context of your post.
Also, did you mean “fallen off the fence” when you wrote “fell of fence”.
-
The focus on Galloway is a real shame in that it will give an easy point of blame when Labour lose this seat.
Just 18% of people polled in the constituency think Starmer would make a better Prime Minister than Boris.
I genuinely hope Galloway doesn't get enough votes that it will have any impact on the result as its another chance for the party to lay the blame somewhere else instead of accepting what's coming their way in the next General Election.
Labour supporters already have their excuses in place Wes if they don’t win this by election.
That poll you mention suggests that Galloway isn’t the only problem.
Is this the real hound finally showing his colours, fell of the fence hound?
Sorry Sydney, I don’t understand the context of your post.
Also, did you mean “fallen off the fence” when you wrote “fell of fence”.
nope, meant what is writ hound and it gives pedants a reason for being aye?
-
QI: ''Former Conservative Mayor backs Labour candidate in by-election
Kim Leadbeater’s campaign in the Batley and Spen by-election has won the support of former Liberal Democrat and Conservative councillors in the constituency''
''Andrew Palfreman, former Conservative Mayor of Kirklees, who lives in Birkenshaw, said: “There is more to Batley and Spen than the centre of Batley and what voters have consistently wanted is an MP who might be not be favourite with the Whips but who lives, breathes and stands up for the local community.
“In my opinion there is only one of those on offer - but naming her would not please the party I represented and served for all those years.”
She appears to be popular with sections of the community
https://www.batleynews.co.uk/news/politics/former-conservative-mayor-backs-labour-candidate-in-by-election-3283996
-
Part of the problem on the Left is that people get influenced by suave gobshites like Bastani here, who literally prefers to fight Labour moderates than the Tories.
https://mobile.twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1409228399072055297
He is talking ignorant bullshit here. Leadbetter is 100% right that you cannot fund long term current spending from borrowing. You CAN and SHOULD fund a response to shocks like the GFC or COVID from borrowing. You CAN and SHOULD fund capital investment from borrowing. Bridges, rail lines, broadband etc. One-time, fixed cost stuff that will boost the economy and pay back.
You CANNOT and MUST NOT use borrowing to pay for ongoing long term current costs like nurses' salaries or social care. You have to pay that through taxation.
What Bastani is doing there is either ignorantly or deliberately painting the 100% correct words of a Labour candidate as somehow being to the right of the Tories. And people lap it up.
-
Tyke.
Look at how he is doing it. And tell me how you are supposed to deal with that.
As I've said, Galloway has ONE aim. To take enough votes from Labour to make sure they lose the seat.
He is targeting two groups. Left singers who want Starmer out. Anti-Semitic, anti-LGBT radicals in the Muslim community.
You tell me how Labour should address that.
Seemingly this is how they address it.
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1409510410391277572?s=19
Seems to me like all of the candidates are stoking up division in that area...
-
It is an established fact that Modhi is a Hindu nationalist who has passed quite viciously anti-Muslim legislation. And Baroness Warsi herself has called out the Tory party repeatedly for it's issues on Islamophobia. So those criticisms are based in fact. But personally, I really don't like that sort of politics.
-
Tyke.
Look at how he is doing it. And tell me how you are supposed to deal with that.
As I've said, Galloway has ONE aim. To take enough votes from Labour to make sure they lose the seat.
He is targeting two groups. Left singers who want Starmer out. Anti-Semitic, anti-LGBT radicals in the Muslim community.
You tell me how Labour should address that.
Seemingly this is how they address it.
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1409510410391277572?s=19
Seems to me like all of the candidates are stoking up division in that area...
Deary me. With that added on to a local Labour Councillor caught on camera removing George Galloway posters today it really isn't a good look for the party who have been crying about how mucky the campaign has been.
-
Tyke.
Look at how he is doing it. And tell me how you are supposed to deal with that.
As I've said, Galloway has ONE aim. To take enough votes from Labour to make sure they lose the seat.
He is targeting two groups. Left singers who want Starmer out. Anti-Semitic, anti-LGBT radicals in the Muslim community.
You tell me how Labour should address that.
Seemingly this is how they address it.
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1409510410391277572?s=19
Seems to me like all of the candidates are stoking up division in that area...
I could be wrong but it appears that racism is alive and active.
-
It is an established fact that Modhi is a Hindu nationalist who has passed quite viciously anti-Muslim legislation. And Baroness Warsi herself has called out the Tory party repeatedly for it's issues on Islamophobia. So those criticisms are based in fact. But personally, I really don't like that sort of politics.
Absolutely agree I have a number of Muslim friends who live in India (not totally strict Muslims but still Muslims).
Interesting though, Corbyn was doing the right thing talking to many people. Johnson talks to the leader of one of the largest countries in the world and......
It should be noted also that it's fundamental in this country that all sides should campaign freely. To me it appears none of them can and that isn't right.
-
So do we know who the scummies where who physically attacked Labour canvassers over the weekend? It's getting Daft over there by the look of things!
-
https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1409567135966416902?s=19 (https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1409567135966416902?s=19)
Labour are clearly rattled in a big way and are now throwing the kitchen sink at trying to hold on to this though not with pledges nor policies.
I imagine the internal opinion polls aren't looking too favourable.
-
https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1409567135966416902?s=19 (https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1409567135966416902?s=19)
Labour are clearly rattled in a big way and are now throwing the kitchen sink at trying to hold on to this though not with pledges nor policies.
I imagine the internal opinion polls aren't looking too favourable.
It is all going to end in tears for them.
Incredibly bad election strategy.
-
https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1409567135966416902?s=19 (https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1409567135966416902?s=19)
Labour are clearly rattled in a big way and are now throwing the kitchen sink at trying to hold on to this though not with pledges nor policies.
I imagine the internal opinion polls aren't looking too favourable.
Jesus wept !!!
-
That old Mandelson magic comes shining through again.....let's fight elections without talking about our policies, worked so well in Hartlepool.
The harsh truth is that the extreme centrists in the driving seat for Labour have not got 2 brain cells to rub together.
Making an avoidable mistake is a regrettable error, but repeating it suggests Starmers team have not got the brains of a gnat!
-
Some folk really showing their true colours here. Not a word of criticism of Galloway from people who have claimed to be Labour supporters.
-
https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1409567135966416902?s=19 (https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1409567135966416902?s=19)
Labour are clearly rattled in a big way and are now throwing the kitchen sink at trying to hold on to this though not with pledges nor policies.
I imagine the internal opinion polls aren't looking too favourable.
Jesus wept !!!
I'm surprised at jesus, I thought he would take a more impartial role
-
Some folk really showing their true colours here. Not a word of criticism of Galloway from people who have claimed to be Labour supporters.
Well wide of the mark, BST.
The real issue is why the Labour right have created the vacuum into which someone like Galloway can operate.
All he is doing is exploiting the emptiness in the Labour offer to voters, and filling it with his populist memes.
It is as easy as shelling peas, when Labour makes its sales pitch a nothing agenda.
This will keep happening at every by-election until Starmer grows some backbone.
Little chance of that with unelected disgrace Mandelson, and moral leper Alastair Campbell on show.
Not pointing to a brighter future is it?
Talk today about bringing Blair back as an MP.......Jesus really would weep at that!
-
I would imagine it's reasonably difficult to turn labour fortunes around following the worst election result since when??? and plenty want to revive the corpse. A lot of ex-labour supporters need to go to cat skinning classes as they appear to have forgotten how the art of politics work.
-
Albie.
Do
So many words of criticism of Labour.
Not one of Galloway.
-
BST,
Galloway is a shit, exploiting the lack of political voice that Labour is offering.
He can only operate in the space created by the absence of viable opposition policies.
Galloway is the product of the failure of Labour to engage, he needs Starmerism in order to thrive.
Starmer gives him oxygen, and allows him relevance.
If you can't see that, then you do not understand the dynamics of the demographic shifts in voting behaviour taking place.
A question for you in good faith;
Do you think that the re-emergence of Mandelson and Campbell will help Labour increase their vote share across the country?
-
Maybe the whole idea of labour winning at the next election following such a devastating defeat needs to be looked at in perspective and not through the intensity of each byelection. To even suggest that the rebuild necessary could be done even if there was a full five years to work with would be a stretch. Barely 18 months from a grand slamming I would think that there is a 5 year plan under construction and a longer one that will see opportunities taken as they arise but a steady rebuild going on, similar to club doncaster. If there was an easy way it would have been done some time in the previous 10 years.
Disunity is death
-
Maybe the whole idea of labour winning at the next election following such a devastating defeat needs to be looked at in perspective and not through the intensity of each byelection. To even suggest that the rebuild necessary could be done even if there was a full five years to work with would be a stretch. Barely 18 months from a grand slamming I would think that there is a 5 year plan under construction and a longer one that will see opportunities taken as they arise but a steady rebuild going on, similar to club doncaster. If there was an easy way it would have been done some time in the previous 10 years.
Disunity is death
Well if such a plan existed Sydney which doesn't look the case you are assuming 2019 was rock bottom .
The party is heading for oblivion make no mistake about it unless it decides what it wants to be .
At the moment all it's saying is we aren't the Tories and the country is saying NO THANKS .
The thing is there isn't a right lot to beat and it's getting hammered by not a lot to beat .
What's that saying about Labour ?
-
Isn't it more about what you are saying about labour, from your tone, intentional or not it sounds like you'd prefer them down and out. Worst defeat in your lifetime and mine, that's fairly rock bottom and the party needs all hands to the pump not sniping and wishing the worst I would have thought. I don't want to keep harking back to Corbyn but when you keep banging on about where labour are now and where they are heading, remember he put them right there. If you don't accept history you can't expect to learn from it. Corbyn was unacceptable to the electorate, not all his fault he had all the morons on his case spouting rubbish from the mail about terrorism etc but there was a lot he should have sorted but didn't. Labour are in the position they are as a direct result of the management they had in place and the decisions they made or didn't make up to the last election, which I'll remind you again was only around 18 months ago. Have you thought that Starmer may have done better if he had rock solid support at the top, and it is why he's clearing the decks, remember if you're not helping you're in the way.
-
Remember when the Labour Party was representative of the working person and trade unions? Me too , just barely, maybe that’s an issue too
-
Remember when the Labour Party was representative of the working person and trade unions? Me too , just barely, maybe that’s an issue too
I totally agree Ldr, but in the UK atm the electorate don't appear to want a government based on a hard left, not enough to get out and vote for one. They I'm sure didn't want a law breaking hard right tory government either but it doesn't matter that ship sailed in 2019.
-
It seems that there is much division in the Labour Party and even on this forum there is much discord between posters who not so long ago were united.
Too many appear to be finding fault with the likes of Galloway, and the Tories of course, rather than looking at where their own Party is going and the lack of leadership.
-
BST, have you ever heard of a guy called Ranjeet Brar?
-
Here’s what I genuinely don’t understand. The UK hasn’t voted for a truly left wing Labour Government for decades, probably since 1945. In 1950 that majority was slashed and in 1951 the Tories won power. Since then, Labour has only ever won whilst taking a centre left position successfully delivered by Blair and to a lesser extend Wilson. The moment Labour moves to the left, as they did with Foot, Corbyn and to a degree Callaghan, the voters don’t want to know! So, why on earth would Labour continue with a left wing policy that the country has voted against on countless occasions?
In the 80’s when I was active on the far left of the party, there were members who were more concerned with outing Kinnock than Thatcher. The ideological battle was more important than the political battle. And what happened? Thatcher, despite tearing the country apart, won election after election.
For Labour to win again, they need to take the centre ground. They cannot be a far left party ever again. What’s infuriating is that I can see history repeating itself with people far more concerned with infighting than beating the Tories. The country is a very different place to the one in which the Labour Party was formed and Labour needs to reflect that.
-
Albie.
Galloway is gallivanting around trying to drag the Muslim vote off Labour by painting Starmer as a crazed Zionist. How the hell is that him "operat(ing) in the space created by the absence of viable opposition policies."
But I'm glad to see you condemning him. I've seen plenty of people on the Labour left sticking the boot into Leadbetter and never saying a word about that t**t.
-
Gaz.
No I haven't. Who is he?
-
HA.
Bang on (other than there is no way that Callaghan took Labour to the left - much the contrary).
The massive Corbynite myth is that there is a mass of people out there desperate for a very left wing Labour Govt. That has never been the case, certainly not for a Corbynite sort of foreign policy. The Left laud the Attlee Govt, but Attlee would have been appalled at Corbyn's foreign policy stances. The truth as you say is that Labour can ONLY win by uniting the left and centre. But the moment Labour moves towards the centre, the Left see them as the Red Tory traitors.
-
Albie.
Galloway is gallivanting around trying to drag the Muslim vote off Labour by painting Starmer as a crazed Zionist. How the hell is that him "operat(ing) in the space created by the absence of viable opposition policies."
But I'm glad to see you condemning him. I've seen plenty of people on the Labour left sticking the boot into Leadbetter and never saying a word about that t**t.
If you were confident about what Labour were offering you wouldn’t be concerned about Galloway or any other party
-
Ldr. No, of course Labour is in a pickle. For a start, they are picking up from a position where Corbyn took them to sub-20% polling for the first time in a century. What disgusts me is knowing that there are people on the left of Labour who actively want Galloway to pull more votes off Labour, so they can continue their fight with Starmer.
-
Gaz.
No I haven't. Who is he?
His dad was the chairman of the communist party of GB.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harpal_Brar
He knocked on my door canvassing for the Workers Party at the weekend. Very strong links between the two parties.
-
Albie.
Galloway is gallivanting around trying to drag the Muslim vote off Labour by painting Starmer as a crazed Zionist. How the hell is that him "operat(ing) in the space created by the absence of viable opposition policies."
But I'm glad to see you condemning him. I've seen plenty of people on the Labour left sticking the boot into Leadbetter and never saying a word about that t**t.
BST,
In the leadership election, Starmer was emphatic in his position as a Zionist, and a supporter of Israel.
He said so clearly (as did others), and in doing so closed the door on many Muslim voters in seats like Batley, because they see this as a betrayal.
When you need to hold the support of minority communities, this was a deeply stupid move in terms of a political strategy. He can't see that, because he has no political awareness of consequences.
All Galloway is doing is stepping into that void....the space was provided by Labour, by the error of Israeli support, and then by the policy free campaign.
Leadbetter is trapped between the devil and the deep blue sea.....toxic attacks from the right, and a lame duck party machine and leader. She deserves praise for sticking at it.
What is the answer to my question on Mandelson and Campbell?
Speak up, Lad...the silence is giving me tinnitus!
-
Gaz.
No I haven't. Who is he?
His dad was the chairman of the communist party of GB.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harpal_Brar
He knocked on my door canvassing for the Workers Party at the weekend. Very strong links between the two parties.
That makes sense. The CPGBMLnis one of those organisation that's gone so far left it's actually far right. Just like Galloway who supports it.
-
Albie.
You are misquoting Starmer. He said he was a Zionist in as much as it meant Israel has a right to exist.
That is deliberately misrepresented by the Left as being uncritical of Israel.
-
BST,
"I support Zionism without qualification" - those are the words of the UK Labour Party leader, Keir Starmer.
Now you and I can throw different interpretations about what he meant by it, but the bottom line is how it was heard by those he needs to vote Labour.
Stop this fart arsing about, you know as well as I do that the whole political campaign from Labour is a shitshow, but you won't say it because it looks bad after cheerleading for it for ages.
Fess up and accept some responsibility.
Start off by telling us what you think about Mandelson and Campbell pulling the strings......or are you waiting until after Thursday, keeping the powder dry?
-
Albie.
Read the entire quote..
While declining to refer to himself as a Zionist, he said: “I do support Zionism. I said that last night. I absolutely support the right of Israel to exist as a homeland.”
“My only concern is that Zionism can mean slightly different things to different people, and as Lisa [Nandy] said, to some extent it has been weaponised. I wouldn’t read too much into that. I said it loud and clear – and meant it – that I support Zionism without qualification.”
Cack handed in terms of not realising how that would be weaponised, but that's a lesser crime than the so called Labour supporters who are doing the weaponising.
-
Albie.
Do I want Campbell and Mandelson running a Labour campaign? No of course I don't.
But these situations don't just come out of thin air. Two years ago, you had the people YOU wanted running the Labour party and we were at 18% in the polls.
18 months ago, I was out canvassing for a Labour Govt in the most chaotically w**k campaign ever, with new spending pledges being thought up on the hoof and people on the doorstep saying we had zero credibility.
I campaigned then because for all its mess, a Corbyn Govt would have been far better than a Johnson one.
Now we are in s situation where the Left are actively rooting for a Tory to defeat a Labour candidate on Thursday. So don't give me any lectures on who to support. I'd take a Mandelson influenced Labour Govt over any Govt of the current Tory party. I don't believe the same applies to you.
-
Thanks for the clarification on Campbell and Mandelson.
You can't say the Left are in favour of Galloway, some people might be, but most that I know on the left wish Leadbeater well. It is not helpful to tar everyone with the same brush, and most of those who will support Galloway at the polls are NOT from the left.
I would prefer any Labour government to Johnson, but my point is that the present strategy is failing disastrously, and those responsible for it need to man up and accept their role in that failure.
On the matter of zero credibility, I would suggest the situation is getting worse by the week, and Labour will lose votes in ethnic minority communities, former red wall disillusioned voters, and young voters in cities will move greenwards.
It is the perfect storm for collapse, all set against the most corrupt Tory administration in history.
Not good at all!
-
Hang on Albie. You were telling me Galloway operates in the space Labour has opened on the left.
-
George Galloway told people to vote for the Brexit Party in 2019 and Tory in the recent Scottish elections. Why anyone with even brief access to the internet even thinks this self-serving charlatan self-publicist has any shred of 'left-wing' credentials is deluding themselves.
Like those ex-members of the RCPGB who now work in Johnson's government (or were put in the HoL by him) all he is interested in is making profit from chaos and disruption.
-
And yet Wilts.
Have you ever seen a word of criticism of Galloway in this campaign from the Momentum opinion formers like Bastani?
-
Didn't Owen Jones do something on him at the weekend on his video thing? Or maybe these people could help:
https://twitter.com/PeoplesMomentum/status/1405123498079629317
https://twitter.com/YoungLabourUK/status/1405501639671357443
https://twitter.com/YoungLabourUK/status/1409136555848044548
If Starmer's Labour is unable to motivate people - that's down to him and the people he put around him. Not the people who feel let down and unmotivated.
-
Not sure what you are posting there Wilts. None of them mention Galloway.
-
To note
https://news.sky.com/story/labour-keir-starmers-leadership-in-turmoil-as-poll-finds-69-of-members-would-prefer-andy-burnham-in-charge-12345377?fbclid=IwAR0LYDpcbxY3wRVUgUBQZpGBY4P96TmtUHzvKDPbTX1YxqlzwOHOPlcHsCY
-
Strange.
The complaints from Lab members are that Starmer is too far to the right. Yet Burnham was the very image of New Labour.
-
Do members know what they want anymore mate?
-
Burnham is not an MP, so is not eligible.
The Starmer quote I posted is from the leadership hustings. It was in the public domain before the quote BST mentions.
Hang on Albie. You were telling me Galloway operates in the space Labour has opened on the left.
Galloway looks to harvest votes in the gaps between other candidates.
If there is no left candidate, he will pitch to that audience.....just the same in terms of right wing memes.
There is no consistency in his position, it is simply a calculation of where available votes are to be found.
Labour could have closed down some of these opportunities, but have chosen to adopt a policy free campaign. Voting Labour to keep out a Tory is simply not good enough any more for many.
-
Albie.
Wrong
The FULL quote I gave was the one from the hustings. Bottom of this article
https://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/keir-starmer-elected-labour-leader-i-will-tear-out-poison-of-antisemitism/
-
BST,
Wrong
That quote is from AFTER the hustings, not from the hustings...the article says that.
At the end of the day, it is splitting hairs.
Starmer said he supports Zionism without qualification, and in doing so lost much of the muslim vote.
This is a serious avoidable mistake.
You were on here saying that Corbyn was over concerned with foreign policy issues.
Now I lived in W Yorks for a while, and canvassed some of the areas like Batley.
I can tell you that concern for Palestine was a big issue then, and that was some years ago.
The point remains that you do not antagonise folk you want to vote for you, and if Starmer cannot see that he needs to give his head a wobble.
-
BST,
Wrong
That quote is from AFTER the hustings, not from the hustings...the article says that.
At the end of the day, it is splitting hairs.
Starmer said he supports Zionism without qualification, and in doing so lost much of the muslim vote.
This is a serious avoidable mistake.
You were on here saying that Corbyn was over concerned with foreign policy issues.
Now I lived in W Yorks for a while, and canvassed some of the areas like Batley.
I can tell you that concern for Palestine was a big issue then, and that was some years ago.
The point remains that you do not antagonise folk you want to vote for you, and if Starmer cannot see that he needs to give his head a wobble.
Have you got the full quote from the hustings themselves? I haven't seen it anywhere. It is crystal clear in that quote in the Jewish News tat he is talking about the right of Israel to exist. Why people on the left would broadcast that as "Starmer is a Zionist" with all the toxic connotations of that word is anyone's guess.
Then there is context, which the Corbynites never like to address of course, but here it is. Labour were hammered in 2019 by the perception of anti-Semitism, which Corbyn allowed to grow by his refusal to kill the subject. I personally know four lifeling Labour voters who refused to vote Labour in 2019 because (rightly or wrongly) they thought Labour was institutionally anti-Semitic. That issues needed flattening once and for all (although Rayner re-twitting an anti-Semitic post and Corbyn refusing to accept the crticisms of the internal report shortly after Starmer took over were hardly designed to put the matter to bed). That is the context in which he made that comment. I agree that it is cack handed and gives bullets to his enemies. I just wouldn't have expected those enemies to be in his own party, bt there you go.
Finally, I never said Corbyn was "over concerned" about foreign policy. Foreign policy is vitally important. What I didn't like about Corbyn was his simplistic approach that led him to prioritise the stance of Russia over the stance of his own country. Time and time and time again. I never heard one word from Corbyn of unqualified condemnation of Russian actions when he was Labour leader. He was arguing their case on Salisbury and on chlorine gas attacks on Syria. And he toed the Seamus Milne line that the barrel bombing that flattened Aleppo must never be criticised because it would "take away attention from the bigger crimes of Britain."
That is the Labour party that Starmer inherited.
-
The original quote from April 4 seems to have been retrospectively edited, although it is widely referenced in other publications.
This is unsurprising given the nature of the comments. Starmer was not alone in this, all the candidates did similar.
The Jewish News is not a reliable publication for accuracy by the way.
Russia is nothing to the point here...we are talking about Muslim voters, and their liklihood of voting Labour.
The party has made it much less likely to hold their support, and if you then factor in loss of support along red wall lines you are in a difficult place.
I hope Labour hold the seat, but I think Leadbeater has been dealt a poor hand by the Party, and that could have been averted. Too many mis-steps!
-
Where is your evidence that there has been retrospective editing?
The Times of Israel reported it the same.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/keir-starmer-elected-uk-labour-chief-apologizes-to-jews-for-party-anti-semitism/
They also quote another newspaper's reporting:
He also told the Jewish Chronicle: “If the definition of ‘Zionist’ is someone who believes in the state of Israel, in that sense I’m a Zionist.”
It is clear with a tiny bit of research that Starmer meant "supporting the right of Israel to exist" when he said he was Zionist. But predictably, elements of the Left are weaponising that quote for their own ends.
-
BST,
Jewish lobby news sources are selective in content.
Retrospective editing happens all the time, including in mainstream media, but usually a correction is acknowledged.
The original is referenced in many other publications, as I said above. It was in the April 4 edition of the link you put.
Once again, a deflection tactic.
Talk to the subject, which is the Labour campaign in Batley and Spen.
I take it you think it has been a model of success...let's see on Thursday!
-
Can you ping me a link to one of the publications that have the "original" quote?
-
It will not help if the link through is to an article which has been amended.
But feel free to check for yourself.
More relevant to Batley and Spen is this piece from Peter Oborne;
https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/uk-batley-spen-by-election-labour-muslims-blaming
Depressing, and unhelpful to rebuilding relationships harmed by the first mis-steps.
-
The news today that whats left of the members would back Yvette Cooper to replace Starmer when they lose Batley on Friday according to a poll, an MP who is almost certainly being ousted from her position in Pontefract at the next election. Stunning.
-
The news today that whats left of the members would back Yvette Cooper to replace Starmer when they lose Batley on Friday according to a poll, an MP who is almost certainly being ousted from her position in Pontefract at the next election. Stunning.
Another pro-EU MP as well, Wes. Unbelievable.
-
It will not help if the link through is to an article which has been amended.
But feel free to check for yourself.
More relevant to Batley and Spen is this piece from Peter Oborne;
https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/uk-batley-spen-by-election-labour-muslims-blaming
Depressing, and unhelpful to rebuilding relationships harmed by the first mis-steps.
I'm not following. Was that a "No" to my request for a link?
-
The news today that whats left of the members would back Yvette Cooper to replace Starmer when they lose Batley on Friday according to a poll, an MP who is almost certainly being ousted from her position in Pontefract at the next election. Stunning.
The people of this country get the government they deserve.
-
As much as kier starmer is struggling to pick up votes with labour I think he's getting a lot of unfair criticsm. The laughable point is those saying Burnham would be a better leader, far from it.
Having said that, labour could put some policies out there and create an identity. He may well be the right leader but at the wrong time in some ways.
-
The news today that whats left of the members would back Yvette Cooper to replace Starmer when they lose Batley on Friday according to a poll, an MP who is almost certainly being ousted from her position in Pontefract at the next election. Stunning.
It wasn't a Labour members poll. It was a Sky poll of 850 members. And 38% of them is hardly a resounding endorsement is it. Compared to the 69% who want Andy Burnham. Although Starmer isn't going anywhere (he says in the Yorkshire Post).
-
Following a few questions, maybe in humour it's sometimes hard to spot, and taking it back to a more relevant thread ............... is there problem having educated people with good jobs in the labour party, if so what is the problem?
How will the labour party survive if you had to have worked darn pit and have a northern accent just to get elected as part of the labour party. Shouldn't there be a celebration of the differences rather than exclusion.
Are there any qualifications required to support or enable the tory party? It's fairly obvious to most that the tory party and it's club magazines are happy to stoke the fires of xenophobia and difference. Look at the party faithful around here, they are only too happy to disrupt genuine conversation rather than engage.
-
Following a few questions, maybe in humour it's sometimes hard to spot, and taking it back to a more relevant thread ............... is there problem having educated people with good jobs in the labour party, if so what is the problem?
How will the labour party survive if you had to have worked darn pit and have a northern accent just to get elected as part of the labour party. Shouldn't there be a celebration of the differences rather than exclusion.
Are there any qualifications required to support or enable the tory party? It's fairly obvious to most that the tory party and it's club magazines are happy to stoke the fires of xenophobia and difference. Look at the party faithful around here, they are only too happy to disrupt genuine conversation rather than engage.
Depends how you judge educated doesn't it ?
Life experience .
Common sense .
Knowledge .
Engaging .
Thinking outside the box .
Many things contribute to intelligence and a university degree isn't necessarily one of them in politics .
-
Following a few questions, maybe in humour it's sometimes hard to spot, and taking it back to a more relevant thread ............... is there problem having educated people with good jobs in the labour party, if so what is the problem?
How will the labour party survive if you had to have worked darn pit and have a northern accent just to get elected as part of the labour party. Shouldn't there be a celebration of the differences rather than exclusion.
Are there any qualifications required to support or enable the tory party? It's fairly obvious to most that the tory party and it's club magazines are happy to stoke the fires of xenophobia and difference. Look at the party faithful around here, they are only too happy to disrupt genuine conversation rather than engage.
Depends how you judge educated doesn't it ?
Life experience .
Common sense .
Knowledge .
Engaging .
Thinking outside the box .
Many things contribute to intelligence and a university degree isn't necessarily one of them in politics .
Nothing inside or outside the box with those thoughts Tyke, what I'm saying is all these things should be included not excluded, educated or not it shouldn't matter, but certainly shouldn't be seen as detrimental if you are, which is the feeling one gets if you read some of the posts.
-
The point on the education voting for parties and membership is interesting. But the one bit that sticks out for me is how well paid graduates seem to be able to think they relate to the working classes. It is a very different lifestyle, culture and way of life. I found it very tough to fit in to that culture at university coming from a working class background and I still see those differences in colleagues, friends etc. That crosses in to how politics is made up these days.
The key to it is balance and the perception for many is that labour have lost that and moved too much towards the higher class educated city types. The problem remains that labour can't attract that balance in enough numbers to win.
I look at myself as a typical "muddle class" as Jason manford calls it and struggle to relate to any of the parties at all. How in a changing society do any of the parties succeed with that? The Tories have shifted fairly successfully but they risk losing out in the south because of that and it's a balance they will struggle to maintain. How do labour find that space?
-
I have read about that sort of experience before and it's a failure in others of course not yourself pud, but that probably doesn't make you feel any better. Unfortunately If the non-university members opt out any imbalance will be exaggerated.
added
I remember when I was seconded to an engineering office where the chief eng' looked down on those that had attained their degrees at night-school rather than at uni, there's no end to the b*llocks in people's heads.
-
Starmer shuffle....?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jun/20/starmer-makes-another-change-to-top-team
-
Following a few questions, maybe in humour it's sometimes hard to spot, and taking it back to a more relevant thread ............... is there problem having educated people with good jobs in the labour party, if so what is the problem?
How will the labour party survive if you had to have worked darn pit and have a northern accent just to get elected as part of the labour party. Shouldn't there be a celebration of the differences rather than exclusion.
Are there any qualifications required to support or enable the tory party? It's fairly obvious to most that the tory party and it's club magazines are happy to stoke the fires of xenophobia and difference. Look at the party faithful around here, they are only too happy to disrupt genuine conversation rather than engage.
Depends how you judge educated doesn't it ?
Life experience .
Common sense .
Knowledge .
Engaging .
Thinking outside the box .
Many things contribute to intelligence and a university degree isn't necessarily one of them in politics .
Nothing inside or outside the box with those thoughts Tyke, what I'm saying is all these things should be included not excluded, educated or not it shouldn't matter, but certainly shouldn't be seen as detrimental if you are, which is the feeling one gets if you read some of the posts.
The detriment is played out on the door step and at the ballot box when canvassers and politicians get a flea in their ear or a lost deposit .
Time and time again Labour are told , " your only interested in the middle classes " .
Sending pro EU candidates up to Hartlepool to fight an election in a massive leave area tells you nobody in the Labour Party listens .
They don't get it and unless we see more authentic Labour candidates that understand areas inside the former red wall and have a vision and policies that cut through then expect many more tonkings at the ballot box .
-
Tyke
Bizarre post on the day of a by-election in which Labour are putting up a local working class candidate.
There's the other thing that you keep on forgetting. These Red Wall seats that voted for Leave. Remind me in how many of them the majority of LABOUR supporters voted Leave?
Here's a clue from an enormous survey that the British Electoral College undertook in 2019.
"In Labour held sets with a Leave majority the figures (of what Labour voters backed) are...: 64% remain and 25% leave. "
I keep telling you this and you keep on not getting it. You, as a Leave supporting ex-Labour supporter are in a tiny minority of all Labour voters. You are asking Labour to pander to you. They did in Spring 2019, and they ended up at 18% in the polls. I don't mean this personally, honestly, because I want people on the Left to unite, but in simple terms, your demands are not important enough. I wish you would realise that and support a party that might get you some of what you want, instead of you being part of the reason why you will get zero of what you want.
-
Tyke
Bizarre post on the day of a by-election in which Labour are putting up a local working class candidate.
There's the other thing that you keep on forgetting. These Red Wall seats that voted for Leave. Remind me in how many of them the majority of LABOUR supporters voted Leave?
Here's a clue from an enormous survey that the British Electoral College undertook in 2019.
"In Labour held sets with a Leave majority the figures (of what Labour voters backed) are...: 64% remain and 25% leave. "
I keep telling you this and you keep on not getting it. You, as a Leave supporting ex-Labour supporter are in a tiny minority of all Labour voters. You are asking Labour to pander to you. They did in Spring 2019, and they ended up at 18% in the polls. I don't mean this personally, honestly, because I want people on the Left to unite, but in simple terms, your demands are not important enough. I wish you would realise that and support a party that might get you some of what you want, instead of you being part of the reason why you will get zero of what you want.
With the greatest of respect, BST, it's you and the Labour Party who are not getting it, because you keep getting f*cking tonked. What good are all these surveys and stats you keep posting, if Labour are getting blathered all the time?
They've simply elected the wrong leader. Nice man? absolutely. Intellectual man? absolutely; but he was a terrible Shadow Brexit Secretary, and completely mis-read the people in the North and North-East, which has never been forgotten.
Is he seriously the man to win a majority for the Labour Party? Never in a million years.
-
SS.
I've never once underestimated the scale of the electoral problem that Labour has. It's massive. But it is nothing compared to the problem they'd have if they embraced the approach that Tyke wants.
As I've said three dozen times, Corbyn tried that in 2019. And he took Labour to its lowest poll figures in a century.
-
So is there any common ground that can be made between the centrists and the left in the Labour Party?
If so, who would be the best bet for leader, in the event of a leadership contest?
Thoughts anyone?
-
Only one man can sort that out SS.
-
Tyke
Bizarre post on the day of a by-election in which Labour are putting up a local working class candidate.
There's the other thing that you keep on forgetting. These Red Wall seats that voted for Leave. Remind me in how many of them the majority of LABOUR supporters voted Leave?
Here's a clue from an enormous survey that the British Electoral College undertook in 2019.
"In Labour held sets with a Leave majority the figures (of what Labour voters backed) are...: 64% remain and 25% leave. "
I keep telling you this and you keep on not getting it. You, as a Leave supporting ex-Labour supporter are in a tiny minority of all Labour voters. You are asking Labour to pander to you. They did in Spring 2019, and they ended up at 18% in the polls. I don't mean this personally, honestly, because I want people on the Left to unite, but in simple terms, your demands are not important enough. I wish you would realise that and support a party that might get you some of what you want, instead of you being part of the reason why you will get zero of what you want.
No problem then Billy , you lot carry on your journey to number 10 , nowt to worry about then if we are such an irrelevance .
Should be a shoe in then in 2023 / 24 .
Crack on kiddo .
-
So is there any common ground that can be made between the centrists and the left in the Labour Party?
If so, who would be the best bet for leader, in the event of a leadership contest?
Thoughts anyone?
None that I can see , I couldn't stand to be in the same room as them never mind talk to them .
-
Tyke.
What exactly DO you want? You are never ever going to get a Labour party that gives you exactly what you want. Neither am I. Why are so vitriolicly against any form of compromise with people who are mostly on your side?
-
Tyke.
What exactly DO you want? You are never ever going to get a Labour party that gives you exactly what you want. Neither am I. Why are so vitriolicly against any form of compromise with people who are mostly on your side?
In my experience its for the fairies to even believe that some kind of compromise can be reached with you lot .
Why even get under hot under the collar Billy we are irrelevant aren't we ?
https://labourheartlands.com/labour-constituencies-voted-to-leave-the-eu/
-
No Tyke you are not irrelevant. You are just a long, long way from being a majority in the party or the country.
Labour cannot win without you. But Labour sure as f**king hell cannot win with only you.
Your call.
And don't flatter yourself that you have the faintest idea what "my lot" are.
-
Reports of a high turnout, 70% being mentioned (which would be remarkable as higher then the last GE) and Labour 'quietly confident'. We'll see tomorrow morning I guess.
-
No idea how this is going to go, but Galloway is now claiming he's been taking votes off the Tories which suggests he's worried Labour are going to win and he's making out it was him wot won it for them.
-
The Yorkshire party think tories are in front at the minute then labour and the workers party next, they say it is very close thou
-
It's funny watching coverage on tv and social media, you have a labour guy saying they think they have lost, a Lib Dem saying to close, a George Galloway one saying there in 2nd place, tories saying Galloway have took some of there votes and it's to close to call and the Yorkshire party saying labour are now ahead
-
Sky had said a Tory win now seems will be a labour hold lol
-
Result now tipped to be Labour by around 300
-
Amazingly Tories already "spinning" as to where they went wrong - before they have declared Result
-
Result now tipped to be Labour by around 300
Which means extra time (a recount)?
-
Result now tipped to be Labour by around 300
Which means extra time (a recount)?
Labour by just over 300
-
I'm quite happy with that I think she will make a good mp, it's refreshing to see someone with so much enthusiasm and positivity, donnywolf, of course the tories will spin it what would you expect them to do? By the sound of it they have probably not put enough into it to win and simply hoped they would win by Galloway taking labour votes and under estimating the vote labour would get
-
thank you Mr Murdoch for playing a straight bat and maintaining the Times' reputation for editorial independence.
-
Labour source on the Conservative campaign: "Turns out if you try and let George Galloway do your dirty work for you- it'll certainly be dirty but it won't work."
https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1410827151377670144
-
A victory for hard work and getting out there and engaging people. The Tories put zero effort into the campaign and thought they would just have to roll the bell into an empty net. A lazy and arrogant that has bitten them in the arse.
-
Galloway says he is going to court to overturn the result, given his vote count was well behind Labour and Conservative he must want the Conservatives to win. It’s there for all to see a far left candidate wants a right wing candidate to win, and folk bleat about The labour centre uniting with the left
-
donnywolf, of course the tories will spin it what would you expect them to do?
I know every Party spins everything - particularly after by-elections - and I referred to the Tories doing it before the result ONLY to highlight the fact that they thought they had lost
-
Galloway says he is going to court to overturn the result, given his vote count was well behind Labour and Conservative he must want the Conservatives to win. It’s there for all to see a far left candidate wants a right wing candidate to win, and folk bleat about The labour centre uniting with the left
Galloway going to court you say? He must have the busiest lawyer in the world.
A good result for Labour in the end especially with Galloway outperforming expectations.
As already said the Tories really relied on the vote split to be enough and it wasn't.
As my Tory supporting friend has pointed out, its no huge loss if it means Keith gets to lead Labour into a General Election.
-
Galloway says he is going to court to overturn the result, given his vote count was well behind Labour and Conservative he must want the Conservatives to win. It’s there for all to see a far left candidate wants a right wing candidate to win, and folk bleat about The labour centre uniting with the left
Galloway going to court you say? He must have the busiest lawyer in the world.
A good result for Labour in the end especially with Galloway outperforming expectations.
As already said the Tories really relied on the vote split to be enough and it wasn't.
As my Tory supporting friend has pointed out, its no huge loss if it means Keith gets to lead Labour into a General Election.
Galloway said that, not me
-
Well it's hardly a ringing endorsement for Labour but a win is a win and at least stops some of the bleeding .
I sincerely hope Kim makes a success of it and can heal many of the divides that exist in the area .
-
Well it's hardly a ringing endorsement for Labour but a win is a win and at least stops some of the bleeding .
I sincerely hope Kim makes a success of it and can heal many of the divides that exist in the area .
That second point is most important. A typical unique by election but one that was far too nasty.
The conservatives need to think about recent things a bit more. I suspect the Matt Hancock affair hasn't helped (polls suggest that) and possibly enough in isolation to cost them the votes. No disasters for anyone and kier starmer will be relieved this morning. Now he needs to push that party on further.
-
Galloway says he is going to court to overturn the result, given his vote count was well behind Labour and Conservative he must want the Conservatives to win. It’s there for all to see a far left candidate wants a right wing candidate to win, and folk bleat about The labour centre uniting with the left
Galloway going to court you say? He must have the busiest lawyer in the world.
A good result for Labour in the end especially with Galloway outperforming expectations.
As already said the Tories really relied on the vote split to be enough and it wasn't.
As my Tory supporting friend has pointed out, its no huge loss if it means Keith gets to lead Labour into a General Election.
Perhaps if the Left concentrated on fighting the Tories rather than fighting Starmer, you might be able to make your pal eat his words.
-
Well it's hardly a ringing endorsement for Labour but a win is a win and at least stops some of the bleeding .
I sincerely hope Kim makes a success of it and can heal many of the divides that exist in the area .
Agree with you Tyke - not a resounding win. The fact that Starmer has hailed the result as 'fantastic' says a lot - at least it keeps him in a job......... for the time being.
-
No Tyke you are not irrelevant. You are just a long, long way from being a majority in the party or the country.
Labour cannot win without you. But Labour sure as f**king hell cannot win with only you.
Your call.
And don't flatter yourself that you have the faintest idea what "my lot" are.
You only have to read the comment sections in The Guardian to obtain the view of what " you lot " feel about the brexit voter in the former red wall .
Feck pondering to the tory racists in the red wall .
Wanting to steer Labour towards a policy of rejoining the EU .
Hoping Brexit is a complete and utter disaster and leavers suffer terrible consequences for having the audacity to vote differently .
Anyone who puts their head above the parapet and announces he voted leave is quickly subjected to the bigot and xenophobic card and bullied .
It's an intolerable mindset .
Under such circumstances it's almost impossible to find compromise .
-
Galloway says he is going to court to overturn the result, given his vote count was well behind Labour and Conservative he must want the Conservatives to win. It’s there for all to see a far left candidate wants a right wing candidate to win, and folk bleat about The labour centre uniting with the left
Galloway going to court you say? He must have the busiest lawyer in the world.
A good result for Labour in the end especially with Galloway outperforming expectations.
As already said the Tories really relied on the vote split to be enough and it wasn't.
As my Tory supporting friend has pointed out, its no huge loss if it means Keith gets to lead Labour into a General Election.
Perhaps if the Left concentrated on fighting the Tories rather than fighting Starmer, you might be able to make your pal eat his words.
The irony of your post isn't lost on me .
Many within the centre of the Labour Party plotted everyday to bring its twice elected leader down rather than fight the Tories as well you know .
-
Tyke.
You keep that mindset old lad. You keep your Brexit. It'll be a Brexit defined by Tories for the rest of your life.
You just don't get it do you? Brexit has been weaponised by the Tories to keep this split going on the left. You are walking straight into their trap.
Simple question. Do you ever want an economically left wing Govt again in your lifetime. Just yes or no, it doesn't need a machine gun rant.
-
Don't lecture me on loyalty. I didn't just vote for Corbyn's Labour party, I was on the streets campaigning for it. Because the difference between you and me is I'd rather see a Labour Govt that I didn't fully agree with than see Johnson's spivs and kleptocrats running us.
Maybe you need to have a think what you really want.
-
Tyke.
You keep that mindset old lad. You keep your Brexit. It'll be a Brexit defined by Tories for the rest of your life.
You just don't get it do you? Brexit has been weaponised by the Tories to keep this split going on the left. You are walking straight into their trap.
Simple question. Do you ever want an economically left wing Govt again in your lifetime. Just yes or no, it doesn't need a machine gun rant.
The only people who have weaponised brexit these last five years are people such as yourself and a number of others on this board , you only have to look at the number of threads on the subject and the constant trashing of the referendum result .
The Tories don't have to weaponise anything you do it for them .
Of course I want an economically left wing government the question is do those in charge of the party want one ?
-
Don't lecture me on loyalty. I didn't just vote for Corbyn's Labour party, I was on the streets campaigning for it. Because the difference between you and me is I'd rather see a Labour Govt that I didn't fully agree with than see Johnson's spivs and kleptocrats running us.
Maybe you need to have a think what you really want.
Did the centre of the Labour Party plot against Corbyn , ? yes or no will suffice .
-
Erm, folks aren’t trashing the referendum result - it is what it is..
The problem with brexit is the rolling goatf**k on how it has been implemented, however much it has been overshadowed by the pandemic.
Anyway…
-
Galloway says he is going to court to overturn the result, given his vote count was well behind Labour and Conservative he must want the Conservatives to win. It’s there for all to see a far left candidate wants a right wing candidate to win, and folk bleat about The labour centre uniting with the left
Filo,
What makes you think Galloway is a left candidate?
Genuine question, because I think he is just an opportunist, as likely to be right wing if he reckons votes are to be had.
Great result for Kim, really pleased for her.
Achieved despite a very poor campaign from Labour head office.
-
Both Labour & the Tories are framing the result in their own ways. They’re both valid, but offer differing views of the end result. Labour should be pleased as their vote was undoubtedly split thanks to Galloway but they still won. The Tories should be pleased because they got within a whisker of gaining a previously untouchable seat.
The challenge now for Labour is to understand, and act upon, just why people in their traditional heartlands feel that the Tories represent their hopes, aspirations and concerns more than they do. It’s worth remembering that the Tories have, historically done nothing for these places except to decimate the very industries in which they relied on, yet they’re seen as a better option than Labour?
While Labour spend their days naval gazing and infighting, they’re never going to find the answer.
The Tories need to work out how to keep these places blue (or target blue) whilst managing the huge cuts to public services which are inevitably on the way, and in which many people in these places rely.
Many in the Labour Party need to concentrate on the political fight rather than the ideological fight.
-
Both Labour & the Tories are framing the result in their own ways. They’re both valid, but offer differing views of the end result. Labour should be pleased as their vote was undoubtedly split thanks to Galloway but they still won. The Tories should be pleased because they got within a whisker of gaining a previously untouchable seat.
The challenge now for Labour is to understand, and act upon, just why people in their traditional heartlands feel that the Tories represent their hopes, aspirations and concerns more than they do. It’s worth remembering that the Tories have, historically done nothing for these places except to decimate the very industries in which they relied on, yet they’re seen as a better option than Labour?
While Labour spend their days naval gazing and infighting, they’re never going to find the answer.
The Tories need to work out how to keep these places blue (or target blue) whilst managing the huge cuts to public services which are inevitably on the way, and in which many people in these places rely.
Many in the Labour Party need to concentrate on the political fight rather than the ideological fight.
That previously untouchable seat was Tory until 1997
-
One of the ways Starmer and the Labour Party could go about healing the divides is to roll out a big campaign and put some serious resources around recruiting for want of a better term real people to eventually become Labour MP's .
A road map in to politics for everyone
The single mother , the nhs nurse on the frontline , the tube driver , the small business person , the lad who wasted his education and found himself in a warehouse on a zhc .
A real programme on a government by the people for the people campaign .
Or would this campaign force the Labour Party to face some uncomfortable truths and put too many noses out of joint and a threat to a cosy existence ?
-
One of the ways Starmer and the Labour Party could go about healing the divides is to roll out a big campaign and put some serious resources around recruiting for want of a better term real people to eventually become Labour MP's .
A road map in to politics for everyone
The single mother , the nhs nurse on the frontline , the tube driver , the small business person , the lad who wasted his education and found himself in a warehouse on a zhc .
A real programme on a government by the people for the people campaign .
Or would this campaign force the Labour Party to face some uncomfortable truths and put too many noses out of joint and a threat to a cosy existence ?
I'd have thought momentum would have been full of them already tyke?
-
Galloway says he is going to court to overturn the result, given his vote count was well behind Labour and Conservative he must want the Conservatives to win. It’s there for all to see a far left candidate wants a right wing candidate to win, and folk bleat about The labour centre uniting with the left
Filo,
What makes you think Galloway is a left candidate?
Genuine question, because I think he is just an opportunist, as likely to be right wing if he reckons votes are to be had.
Great result for Kim, really pleased for her.
Achieved despite a very poor campaign from Labour head office.
Because he only tries to attract votes from the left.
Given that he is funded through RT, as are many other ostensibly left wing populists, I'm wondering if there's a Kremlin policy to destabilise and fragment the Left.
-
Both Labour & the Tories are framing the result in their own ways. They’re both valid, but offer differing views of the end result. Labour should be pleased as their vote was undoubtedly split thanks to Galloway but they still won. The Tories should be pleased because they got within a whisker of gaining a previously untouchable seat.
The challenge now for Labour is to understand, and act upon, just why people in their traditional heartlands feel that the Tories represent their hopes, aspirations and concerns more than they do. It’s worth remembering that the Tories have, historically done nothing for these places except to decimate the very industries in which they relied on, yet they’re seen as a better option than Labour?
While Labour spend their days naval gazing and infighting, they’re never going to find the answer.
The Tories need to work out how to keep these places blue (or target blue) whilst managing the huge cuts to public services which are inevitably on the way, and in which many people in these places rely.
Many in the Labour Party need to concentrate on the political fight rather than the ideological fight.
That previously untouchable seat was Tory until 1997
[/quote
The seat went through a number of boundary changes up to 1997 so until that point it’s difficult to compare like for like. Labour have held the seat for 24 years with majorities ranging between 3000 and 6000. That is fairly untouchable.
-
Galloway says he is going to court to overturn the result, given his vote count was well behind Labour and Conservative he must want the Conservatives to win. It’s there for all to see a far left candidate wants a right wing candidate to win, and folk bleat about The labour centre uniting with the left
Filo,
What makes you think Galloway is a left candidate?
Genuine question, because I think he is just an opportunist, as likely to be right wing if he reckons votes are to be had.
Great result for Kim, really pleased for her.
Achieved despite a very poor campaign from Labour head office.
I'd be interested to know what you thought they did wrong .......... and right Albie.
-
There's an interesting graph showing that labour's vote in the seat steadily fell away from around 2000 to 2015-2017 where it peaked to above the 2000 level before dropping again below 2015-2017 from where it continued down to today's number.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batley_and_Spen_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
-
Not sure why the link above doesn't work properly but it shows the vote falling off a cliff around 2016-17, it will be good to have someone 'local' to have look and interpret what appears to be a big call to expect a new leadership team to turn it around.
-
First of all, congratulations to the Labour Party, and particularly Kim Leadbeater. She's a good person, and has fought hard for this seat.
However, regarding Starmer's leadership, a 2.9% swing to the Tories in a safe Labour seat is nothing to be ecstatic about; and before anyone mentions it, it's not just because of the Galloway vote splitting the Labour vote; apparently he ate into some of the Tory votes as well.
Also, according to Professor Michael Thrasher, there's evidence of tactical voting by some Lib Dems to bolster the Labour vote.
A bit of relief for Starmer, but far too early for the champagne bottle corks.
-
Galloway says he is going to court to overturn the result, given his vote count was well behind Labour and Conservative he must want the Conservatives to win. It’s there for all to see a far left candidate wants a right wing candidate to win, and folk bleat about The labour centre uniting with the left
Filo,
What makes you think Galloway is a left candidate?
Genuine question, because I think he is just an opportunist, as likely to be right wing if he reckons votes are to be had.
Great result for Kim, really pleased for her.
Achieved despite a very poor campaign from Labour head office.
I'd be interested to know what you thought they did wrong .......... and right Albie.
Sydney,
There is a good summary from Andrew Fisher here;
https://inews.co.uk/opinion/batley-and-spen-by-election-why-labour-won-kim-leadbeater-activists-matt-hancock-keir-starmer-1082853
I agree with most of that.
Contrary to BST claiming Galloway looks to attract the left, I know no-one on the left who support him.
Many will agree with him on Palestine, but there is little else to appeal to the left, and a good deal to oppose.
-
That friend of murderous right-wing dictators (including Putin here), Galloway, conducted a homphobic campaign against a local women whose sister was murdered by a fascist in the streets where he stirring up hate. What exactly is left-wing about him? That he supports a Palestinian state - so do the United Nations!
Anyone who thinks he is doesn't know him or what left-wing politics actually involves - but have been suckered by the right-wing media to discredit anyone who actually campaigns for fairness and equality.
-
Missed this earlier - Tory Party chair telling Nick Ferrari that the Tories didn't loose the bye-election!
https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1410884537698115588
-
They didn't lose the seat in the sense that they didn't have the seat before, however, they did narrow the gap on Labour.
-
Galloway says he is going to court to overturn the result, given his vote count was well behind Labour and Conservative he must want the Conservatives to win. It’s there for all to see a far left candidate wants a right wing candidate to win, and folk bleat about The labour centre uniting with the left
Filo,
What makes you think Galloway is a left candidate?
Genuine question, because I think he is just an opportunist, as likely to be right wing if he reckons votes are to be had.
Great result for Kim, really pleased for her.
Achieved despite a very poor campaign from Labour head office.
I'd be interested to know what you thought they did wrong .......... and right Albie.
Sydney,
There is a good summary from Andrew Fisher here;
https://inews.co.uk/opinion/batley-and-spen-by-election-why-labour-won-kim-leadbeater-activists-matt-hancock-keir-starmer-1082853
I agree with most of that.
Contrary to BST claiming Galloway looks to attract the left, I know no-one on the left who support him.
Many will agree with him on Palestine, but there is little else to appeal to the left, and a good deal to oppose.
I know no-one on the Left who supports Galloway therefore no erstwhile Labour voters voted for Galloway.
Didn't take long for you to join in the last minute Galloway spin that he was really hurting the Right.
Galloway pitched himself as a traditionalist, nationalistic pre-woke left wing. Anyone not realising that that has appeal among elements of the post Industrial Labour support really doesn't understand the Left.
-
They didn't lose the seat in the sense that they didn't have the seat before, however, they did narrow the gap on Labour.
So by your logic, Labour didn’t lose the last general election, because they weren’t in government before it.??
-
Labour didn't lose the last election in the sense that they weren't in power before, however, they did lose a hell of a lot of seats to the Tories.
-
One of the ways Starmer and the Labour Party could go about healing the divides is to roll out a big campaign and put some serious resources around recruiting for want of a better term real people to eventually become Labour MP's .
A road map in to politics for everyone
The single mother , the nhs nurse on the frontline , the tube driver , the small business person , the lad who wasted his education and found himself in a warehouse on a zhc .
A real programme on a government by the people for the people campaign .
Or would this campaign force the Labour Party to face some uncomfortable truths and put too many noses out of joint and a threat to a cosy existence ?
I'd have thought momentum would have been full of them already tyke?
That's probably very true but clearly my point sails over your head which tends to be the case with yourself .
Perhaps you might want to remind yourself that the so called best education money can buy produced Cameron , Osborne and Johnson .
Clearly you can't see the political space that could be opened up here but then again relying on The Guardian to keep up from the other side of the world has its limitations .
It's a well known fact people read the publications that produces the content they want to hear .
Doesn't necessarily make that content right anymore than the Mail , Sun or Express does .
Here's a bit of advice you'll probably ignore , if you want to read what the tories are really up to or how neoliberalsm is totally on its ass then read the FT Sydney .
-
BST,
"I know no-one on the Left who supports Galloway therefore no erstwhile Labour voters voted for Galloway."
No, some were deceived into doing so.
"Didn't take long for you to join in the last minute Galloway spin that he was really hurting the Right."
No, I never said Galloway was hurting the right.
I think he took his share of the vote from across the spectrum.
"Galloway pitched himself as a traditionalist, nationalistic pre-woke left wing. Anyone not realising that that has appeal among elements of the post Industrial Labour support really doesn't understand the Left."
No, wrong again.
The idea of nationalistic left wing is bizarre, as a key element of the left is its internationalism.
He may have appeal to some who have voted Labour in the past, but so does Boris Johnson.
I'm afraid the voices in your head are singing again, BST.
Have a nice lie down!
-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batley_and_Spen_(UK_Parliament_constituency)#/media/File:Batley_and_Spen_vote_share.png
This graph that shows that from 2017-2019 the vote fell dramatically, can someone please explain why this wasn't sorted by the previous leader and team?
-
Albie.
I present Tyke.
I'm sure he'd consider himself left wing. He's also anything but an internationalist.
Your definition is rather one-dimensional.
-
I wonder if it is the first time in history that members of a political party argued amongst itself why their party won a by-election?
-
Galloway says he is going to court to overturn the result, given his vote count was well behind Labour and Conservative he must want the Conservatives to win. It’s there for all to see a far left candidate wants a right wing candidate to win, and folk bleat about The labour centre uniting with the left
Filo,
What makes you think Galloway is a left candidate?
Genuine question, because I think he is just an opportunist, as likely to be right wing if he reckons votes are to be had.
Great result for Kim, really pleased for her.
Achieved despite a very poor campaign from Labour head office.
I'd be interested to know what you thought they did wrong .......... and right Albie.
Sydney,
There is a good summary from Andrew Fisher here;
https://inews.co.uk/opinion/batley-and-spen-by-election-why-labour-won-kim-leadbeater-activists-matt-hancock-keir-starmer-1082853
I agree with most of that.
Contrary to BST claiming Galloway looks to attract the left, I know no-one on the left who support him.
Many will agree with him on Palestine, but there is little else to appeal to the left, and a good deal to oppose.
Thanks Albie, can't get access atm but will try and read it. If I were a gambler I would not have put money on labour winning this byelection, I would have supported and tried to rally them but as shown from 2017 the vote was going only one way and to get a turn around from that to a 'save' was a superb effort for labour in anyone's books. Labour did slow the slide just enough and a win is a win.
-
Even the telerag says it was a byelection the tories expected to win, that's saying something, aye?
-
I'm quite happy with that I think she will make a good mp, it's refreshing to see someone with so much enthusiasm and positivity, donnywolf, of course the tories will spin it what would you expect them to do? By the sound of it they have probably not put enough into it to win and simply hoped they would win by Galloway taking labour votes and under estimating the vote labour would get
Shabana Mahmood said, Leadbetter was the only candidate that lived on the area.
-
I wonder if it is the first time in history that members of a political party argued amongst itself why their party won a by-election?
It appears to be the first time that supporters of a government that lost a bye-election say they didn't lose a bye-election. Welcome to Boris Trump's Britain.
-
They didn't lose the by-election in the sense that you can't lose something that wasn't in your possession in the first place. However, the Tories did gain support while Labour lost support, although not enough for it to be a Tory gain. It would probably have been a Tory victory had it not been for the Hancock fiasco.
It would have been much more laughable if the Tories had claimed victory like Corbyn did after losing a General Election a few years ago
-
They didn't lose the by-election in the sense that you can't lose something that wasn't in your possession in the first place. However, the Tories did gain support while Labour lost support, although not enough for it to be a Tory gain. It would probably have been a Tory victory had it not been for the Hancock fiasco.
It would have been much more laughable if the Tories had claimed victory like Corbyn did after losing a General Election a few years ago
tautology r us
-
Tautology is the only way to go when something has to be repeated that has been perfectly well explained in the first place.
-
Tautology is the only way to go when something has to be repeated that has been perfectly well explained in the first place.
is that what you were taut at school bb?
-
I wasn't taut at school, I was a bit of a slacker.
-
the tories still lost batley though aye?
-
They didn't win, aye.
-
when Toryrags say they shouldn't have lost ...................
-
I'll have to take your word for that, I don't read Toryrags.
-
It would probably have been a Tory victory had it not been for the Hancock fiasco.
I like that.
More people would have voted Tory if the Tories hadn't shown what a shower of shite they are.
-
And more people would have voted Labour if they hadn't shown what a shower of shite they are.
-
They didn't lose the by-election in the sense that you can't lose something that wasn't in your possession in the first place. However, the Tories did gain support while Labour lost support, although not enough for it to be a Tory gain. It would probably have been a Tory victory had it not been for the Hancock fiasco.
It would have been much more laughable if the Tories had claimed victory like Corbyn did after losing a General Election a few years ago
Now combined with 'The Tory's didn't loose a bye-election' we have a fall of nearly 7000 votes as 'gaining support'!
2021 - Ryan Stephenson - 12973
2019 - Mark Brookes - 19069
-
Nobody has come out of this too well let's be honest in such a bitterly fought contest .
Let's hope things settle down over there and the divisions can be addressed .
-
Does all this mean that Rovers will go all season without losing then.