Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: since-1969 on July 14, 2021, 10:55:26 pm
-
Will there be another UK lockdown in 2021?
Although Boris Johnson has said that the lifting of restrictions is ‘irreversible’, he hasn’t ruled out the possibility that some may have to return in the event of another wave of infections, or the arrival of a new variant of the virus.
Watching the rates rise across the board and little sign that it’s growth is slowing and covid cases already effecting pre-season . What is the likelihood of games being effected after the season commences and restrictions being placed on clubs to reduce crowd numbers . What are the clubs instructions if a case happens . Do they just isolate the infected players or the whole team ?
-
I think there should certainly be one as it’s getting too bad now. I know the economy doesn’t need it, but lives need it without a doubt
-
Maybe this belongs in the coronavirus thread in “off topic”
-
So why do people have to stick things on the back burner, is it cos they are scared of things
-
Haven't only 60 percent had 2 jabs still? Hopefully hospitalisation comes down even more when everyone jabbed twice.
-
The problem is, everyone won’t be jabbed twice because some refuse to have it. I know of 3 generations of one family who won’t have the jabs, because they don’t believe in vaccinations. Unbelievable!! Unfortunately, there are a lot more like them.
-
People of a certain age and the vulnerable have all had the opportunity to have the jab now. We can’t legislate for people not wanting it unfortunately. We need to get things back to normal. Having said that, wouldn’t be surprised if we don’t see the first game of the season :crying:
-
Someone I know won’t have the jab “because Covid doesn’t exist, it’s all a massive fraud “ which is strange because two of his cricket club mates have got it and fixtures have had to be cancelled because of it.
-
If we can’t open up now (vast majority of at risk double jabbed) when the death rate is at a similar level to seasonal flu then when can we?? So IMO it becomes about whether your happy to live in lockdown or restrictions forever or not.
Also It seems public opinion is heavily weighted on the side of opening whereas before it was with public consent. The option is still there for anyone worried they can find a way to lock themselves down to avoid catching it.
-
Without doubt, there will be greater restrictions when the Summer has gone. If not National, I'd guess they'll impose Regional restrictions again.
The fact Johnson says it's 'irreversible' is irrelevant as the knob is an inveterate liar.
And when greater restrictions are announced, it'll be leaked to the Press a week before he sends Grant Shapps out to make the Official announcement.
-
Maybe this belongs in the coronavirus thread in “off topic”
Why ? If some people have not bought your season ticket yet , is this the reason they are holding back so it’s relevant . After a year of doubt and financial chaos , this possibility may have long term implications!
-
The problem is, everyone won’t be jabbed twice because some refuse to have it. I know of 3 generations of one family who won’t have the jabs, because they don’t believe in vaccinations. Unbelievable!! Unfortunately, there are a lot more like them.
yes a whole family next door to me won’t have it and it is dammed annoying
-
The problem is, everyone won’t be jabbed twice because some refuse to have it. I know of 3 generations of one family who won’t have the jabs, because they don’t believe in vaccinations. Unbelievable!! Unfortunately, there are a lot more like them.
yes a whole family next door to me won’t have it rather and it is dammed annoying
Why should you be annoyed, if your double jabbed, wear your mask then live your life like that & leave others to live theirs. The death rate is flat lining despite rising cases, do you not think that the more testing will show up in the results.
No one I no doesn’t deny the COVID exists just that the government are over egging it to take our freedoms away. It’s more to do with climate change as Boris Johnson has signed us up to more carbon reduction by 2030.No more foreign holidays for most hard working Brits, just for the rich & ruling classes. I have even had the RSPB_nature telling me on Instagram that we shouldn’t be flying anymore & to stay in the uk!
-
Maybe this belongs in the coronavirus thread in “off topic”
Why ? If some people have not bought your season ticket yet , is this the reason they are holding back so it’s relevant . After a year of doubt and financial chaos , this possibility may have long term implications!
You said you were finished with season tickets, so why bother yourself with potential lockdowns affecting season ticket sales
-
The Israelis opened up after vaccinating a high proportion of the population. They then realised Delta was still circulating and estimate there is still a 50% chance of infection even with double vaccination.
Sickness generally not so bad, hospitalisations much lower but still, bad enough to bring back face masks.
With vaccine effectiveness whining after 6 months and variants of concern popping up all over, I think it's a pretty safe bet there we will see restrictions return occasionally.
-
Someone I know won’t have the jab “because Covid doesn’t exist, it’s all a massive fraud “ which is strange because two of his cricket club mates have got it and fixtures have had to be cancelled because of it.
The sooner he cops a dose of it, the better. He might learn something.
-
The problem is, everyone won’t be jabbed twice because some refuse to have it. I know of 3 generations of one family who won’t have the jabs, because they don’t believe in vaccinations. Unbelievable!! Unfortunately, there are a lot more like them.
yes a whole family next door to me won’t have it rather and it is dammed annoying
Why should you be annoyed, if your double jabbed, wear your mask then live your life like that & leave others to live theirs. The death rate is flat lining despite rising cases, do you not think that the more testing will show up in the results.
No one I no doesn’t deny the COVID exists just that the government are over egging it to take our freedoms away. It’s more to do with climate change as Boris Johnson has signed us up to more carbon reduction by 2030.No more foreign holidays for most hard working Brits, just for the rich & ruling classes. I have even had the RSPB_nature telling me on Instagram that we shouldn’t be flying anymore & to stay in the uk!
Why are conspiracy theory’s becoming so popular now? Is it a Facebook thing or am I just older now and notice it more??
Yesterday someone was saying Southgate was told by governments to make black players take penalties and today climate change targets are the reason for Covid restrictions.
It’s like some blind faith that everything is conspiratorial and nothing no matter what can be taken at face value! So when anything happens there’s a hunt to find any theory that explains the event without giving the actual storey a fair hearing.
-
If we can’t open up now (vast majority of at risk double jabbed) when the death rate is at a similar level to seasonal flu then when can we?? So IMO it becomes about whether your happy to live in lockdown or restrictions forever or not.
Also It seems public opinion is heavily weighted on the side of opening whereas before it was with public consent. The option is still there for anyone worried they can find a way to lock themselves down to avoid catching it.
It's not about death rate and never really has been. It's about the infection rate and trying to stop cases swamping the NHS, not only to the detriment of Covid patients but those with other illnesses too. The vast majority of covid patients don't die but the severest cases still need to be treated in a hospital.
-
If we can’t open up now (vast majority of at risk double jabbed) when the death rate is at a similar level to seasonal flu then when can we?? So IMO it becomes about whether your happy to live in lockdown or restrictions forever or not.
Also It seems public opinion is heavily weighted on the side of opening whereas before it was with public consent. The option is still there for anyone worried they can find a way to lock themselves down to avoid catching it.
Lockdown forever or release now is a very limited option. :laugh:
-
This is what learning to live with it looks like.
No doubt things will evolve with treatments, booster vaccinations, testing etc.,
If the average death rate remains close to the 5 year average, then why should enforced restrictions apply? Even if it goes above the national average for a short time.
In addition, society can't be held hostage by those who refuse the jab. Their choice, their risk. It should also be our choice to be able to conduct our lives as normal as possible.
The people I know who are considered to be in the vulnerable category, don't want to be shielded, or the rest of us be locked down for them. They also want to exercise their choices.
Having choices is better than no choice
-
It's not whether or not they have had the vaccination
It's the fact that it's a variant creating pool of infection
-
Someone I know won’t have the jab “because Covid doesn’t exist, it’s all a massive fraud “ which is strange because two of his cricket club mates have got it and fixtures have had to be cancelled because of it.
The sooner he cops a dose of it, the better. He might learn something.
f**kin idiot!!
A customer of mine had his 1st jab 13 weeks ago and he suffered pericarditis and a heart attack.
38 years old and he's f**ked. A lady I know has got blood clots in three of her fingers.
And another lady who I'll be doing a job for in 3 weeks had short term paralysis from the waist down.
This is why a lot of people, including myself are hesitant.
-
But there’s 60 million or so been vaccinated,
If you were worried about risk rates like this you’d never leave the house
-
But there’s 60 million or so been vaccinated,
If you were worried about risk rates like this you’d never leave the house
Eh?? Never the leave the house? No, just not having the vaccine.
Imagine if I'd said to one you guys that I hope you suffer a blood clot on the brain, I'd be f**kin lynched on here and probably banned.
BST would tell me how morally corrupt I am.
I've been working non stop through out this, I've heard plenty of people say they've tested positive without so much as a runny nose and a bit of a temperature. Sounds like it's you who's scared to go out until everyone is vaxxed up.
-
If we can’t open up now (vast majority of at risk double jabbed) when the death rate is at a similar level to seasonal flu then when can we?? So IMO it becomes about whether your happy to live in lockdown or restrictions forever or not.
Also It seems public opinion is heavily weighted on the side of opening whereas before it was with public consent. The option is still there for anyone worried they can find a way to lock themselves down to avoid catching it.
It's not about death rate and never really has been. It's about the infection rate and trying to stop cases swamping the NHS, not only to the detriment of Covid patients but those with other illnesses too. The vast majority of covid patients don't die but the severest cases still need to be treated in a hospital.
So what’s the plan then? If with the current level of vaccinations we can’t open up when can we? With 100% vaccinations the issues your talking about still exist.
The issue for NHS is the backlog of treatments caused by Covid and getting through them with everyone isolating. Covid patients are at a similar level to seasonal flu at the moment. Ok this will go up but the ability for it to go up hugely is limited.
Basically I’m saying at what point is it ok to open if it isn’t now? What more can actually be done?
-
The risk of Covid outweigh the risk of the vaccine.
-
Someone I know won’t have the jab “because Covid doesn’t exist, it’s all a massive fraud “ which is strange because two of his cricket club mates have got it and fixtures have had to be cancelled because of it.
The sooner he cops a dose of it, the better. He might learn something.
f**kin idiot!!
A customer of mine had his 1st jab 13 weeks ago and he suffered pericarditis and a heart attack.
38 years old and he's f**ked. A lady I know has got blood clots in three of her fingers.
And another lady who I'll be doing a job for in 3 weeks had short term paralysis from the waist down.
This is why a lot of people, including myself are hesitant.
Were any of you Covid deniers like the person I was commenting on?
-
Far better getting the vaccine than not, but each to their own, however most of the ones not getting a vaccine are been brainwashed by social media. Come the Autumn these people won’t be able to travel to countries in the EU unless they have had the vaccine
-
Someone I know won’t have the jab “because Covid doesn’t exist, it’s all a massive fraud “ which is strange because two of his cricket club mates have got it and fixtures have had to be cancelled because of it.
The sooner he cops a dose of it, the better. He might learn something.
f**kin idiot!!
A customer of mine had his 1st jab 13 weeks ago and he suffered pericarditis and a heart attack.
38 years old and he's f**ked. A lady I know has got blood clots in three of her fingers.
And another lady who I'll be doing a job for in 3 weeks had short term paralysis from the waist down.
This is why a lot of people, including myself are hesitant.
f**king hell Nudga, you are a magnet for these problems. No-one else I know has ever known anyone who had these life-changing reactions to the virus, but you have a list as long as your arm. You must be due a change of luck sometime soon.
-
If we can’t open up now (vast majority of at risk double jabbed) when the death rate is at a similar level to seasonal flu then when can we?? So IMO it becomes about whether your happy to live in lockdown or restrictions forever or not.
Also It seems public opinion is heavily weighted on the side of opening whereas before it was with public consent. The option is still there for anyone worried they can find a way to lock themselves down to avoid catching it.
It's not about death rate and never really has been. It's about the infection rate and trying to stop cases swamping the NHS, not only to the detriment of Covid patients but those with other illnesses too. The vast majority of covid patients don't die but the severest cases still need to be treated in a hospital.
So what’s the plan then? If with the current level of vaccinations we can’t open up when can we? With 100% vaccinations the issues your talking about still exist.
The issue for NHS is the backlog of treatments caused by Covid and getting through them with everyone isolating. Covid patients are at a similar level to seasonal flu at the moment. Ok this will go up but the ability for it to go up hugely is limited.
Basically I’m saying at what point is it ok to open if it isn’t now? What more can actually be done?
The plan is to keep covid to manageable levels to safeguard the effectiveness of the NHS as a whole. It's here, it's possible it's never going to go away completely so you have to have provisions ready in case of another wave or outbreak of a variant. With 100% level of vaccinations, yes you're right covid will still be there but I think it's safe to assume the levels of infection and severe effects of the disease will be more manageable than they are now. That's why death rates are irrelevant, dead people don't clog up the NHS, the living patients requiring treatment do - it's the infection rate that drives combative action, not the rate of people dying of it.
-
Did we really have to have a thread like this in the footy section of the forum?
-
Problem is Glyn, the number of infected people requiring hospital admission hasn't actually fallen that much. Pre-vaccination rollout, there was a very steady rate - for every 1000 new positive tests, 70 people ended up in hospital. Now for every 1000 new tests, about 30 people are ending up in hospital.
Since the new positive test numbers are already well up above 30,000 a day, it's pretty well baked in that new hospital admissions will hit 1000 per day in the next week or so. What matters then is how much the spread of new cases continues to increase. Personally I'm baffled at the official line being to expect a peak between 1000-2000 hospitalisations per day, when we have been told to expect new cases per day to hit at least 100,000. Unless there is something dramatic happens very soon to break the link between new cases and new hospital admissions, 100k case per day maps across to something approaching 3000 hospital admissions per day. Which we only exceeded briefly at the height of the first and second waves.
-
Problem is Glyn, the number of infected people requiring hospital admission hasn't actually fallen that much. Pre-vaccination rollout, there was a very steady rate - for every 1000 new positive tests, 70 people ended up in hospital. Now for every 1000 new tests, about 30 people are ending up in hospital.
Since the new positive test numbers are already well up above 30,000 a day, it's pretty well baked in that new hospital admissions will hit 1000 per day in the next week or so. What matters then is how much the spread of new cases continues to increase. Personally I'm baffled at the official line being to expect a peak between 1000-2000 hospitalisations per day, when we have been told to expect new cases per day to hit at least 100,000. Unless there is something dramatic happens very soon to break the link between new cases and new hospital admissions, 100k case per day maps across to something approaching 3000 hospital admissions per day. Which we only exceeded briefly at the height of the first and second waves.
BST - I think the logic is that the vast majority of new cases are younger people who are much less likely to go on to need Intensive care than us Oldies. (I'm assuming you are an Oldie lol).
-
Someone I know won’t have the jab “because Covid doesn’t exist, it’s all a massive fraud “ which is strange because two of his cricket club mates have got it and fixtures have had to be cancelled because of it.
The sooner he cops a dose of it, the better. He might learn something.
f**kin idiot!!
A customer of mine had his 1st jab 13 weeks ago and he suffered pericarditis and a heart attack.
38 years old and he's f**ked. A lady I know has got blood clots in three of her fingers.
And another lady who I'll be doing a job for in 3 weeks had short term paralysis from the waist down.
This is why a lot of people, including myself are hesitant.
f**king hell Nudga, you are a magnet for these problems. No-one else I know has ever known anyone who had these life-changing reactions to the virus, but you have a list as long as your arm. You must be due a change of luck sometime soon.
So are you calling me a liar?
Where is your outrage at Wigleys comment?
-
A friend of mine works at Chesterfield Royal and whilst admissions are increasing, she says there's more younger people being kept in for precautionary reasons because they have capacity. She says there's more turnover of patients in this wave.
That's not saying some people are getting really ill but I guess we have to be careful with the statistics.
The guy from the Zoe app says the data he gets which is ahead of the PHE stats suggests the infections may now we plateauing, although there are of course some regional variations.
Cautious optimism seems to be the watchword.
-
I'm calling you a statistical outlier Nudga.
As for Glyn's comments, basically, anyone who is not immune is going to catch a dose over the next few weeks. He's actually well advised to catch it sooner rather than later - see next post.
-
DBR/Glyn (and Nudga if you are still reading)
The graph below is the scary one for me. It shows that there has been a constant link between hospitalisations and deaths right the way through this epidemic. Including in the current wave, after vaccinations.
But here's the scary thing. To make those two sets of data lay on top of each other, I've not been consistent with the vertical axes. The right hand one (deaths) increases by a lot more than the left hand one (hospital cases). (By which I mean there are 9 doublings on the right hand axis and only 6 doublings on the left hand one.)
What this is saying is that right through the epidemic, before vaccinations or not, if you were admitted to hospital with COVID at a low point in the outbreak, you had a 1-in-16 chance of dying. Whereas if you went in at the very height of the epidemic, you had a 1-in-3 or 4 chance of dying. And there is no evidence yet that the vaccinations have had ANY effect on those relationships. Basically, what seems to be happening is that when the hospitals get overloaded, the quality of care they can give falls off a cliff. And we are running a serious risk of overloading them once again.
-
Just to add, there, of course current hospital cases and deaths are still very low compared to the previous two waves. But the point is they are growing very rapidly, and following pretty much exactly the same relationship as the previous two waves. If something doesn't change, and soon, we are back to the same number of hospital cases and deaths that we saw at the two previous peaks by late summer/early autumn.
For the record, the SAGE modellers are saying that they expect this wave to start tailing off before then. But they freely admit that that is based on a lot of assumptions about how close we are to Herd Immunity. I sincerely hope they are right.
-
Someone I know won’t have the jab “because Covid doesn’t exist, it’s all a massive fraud “ which is strange because two of his cricket club mates have got it and fixtures have had to be cancelled because of it.
The sooner he cops a dose of it, the better. He might learn something.
f**kin idiot!!
A customer of mine had his 1st jab 13 weeks ago and he suffered pericarditis and a heart attack.
38 years old and he's f**ked. A lady I know has got blood clots in three of her fingers.
And another lady who I'll be doing a job for in 3 weeks had short term paralysis from the waist down.
This is why a lot of people, including myself are hesitant.
f**king hell Nudga, you are a magnet for these problems. No-one else I know has ever known anyone who had these life-changing reactions to the virus, but you have a list as long as your arm. You must be due a change of luck sometime soon.
So are you calling me a liar?
Where is your outrage at Wigleys comment?
As I've already said, I wasn't commenting on anyone refusing vaccinations or having a possible reaction to vaccination like all your anecdotes, I was commenting on someone who refuses to believe in Covid and needs to be shown it's very real. So read what I actually replied to and then you can stick your faux outrage somewhere where it's appropriate.
-
Haha faux outrage. Plenty of that around here.
-
It's quite pleasant on here when I'm not involved!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
-
A friend of mine works at Chesterfield Royal and whilst admissions are increasing, she says there's more younger people being kept in for precautionary reasons because they have capacity. She says there's more turnover of patients in this wave.
That's not saying some people are getting really ill but I guess we have to be careful with the statistics.
The guy from the Zoe app says the data he gets which is ahead of the PHE stats suggests the infections may now we plateauing, although there are of course some regional variations.
Cautious optimism seems to be the watchword.
I hadn't seen that comment from Tim Spector but it's great news if true. There's slight hints of a reduction in the rate of increase of new infections from the official PHE data. But of course we are about to give transmission a massive boost next Monday.
-
A friend of mine works at Chesterfield Royal and whilst admissions are increasing, she says there's more younger people being kept in for precautionary reasons because they have capacity. She says there's more turnover of patients in this wave.
That's not saying some people are getting really ill but I guess we have to be careful with the statistics.
The guy from the Zoe app says the data he gets which is ahead of the PHE stats suggests the infections may now we plateauing, although there are of course some regional variations.
Cautious optimism seems to be the watchword.
I hadn't seen that comment from Tim Spector but it's great news if true. There's slight hints of a reduction in the rate of increase of new infections from the official PHE data. But of course we are about to give transmission a massive boost next Monday.
At the same time as reducing it with schools shut. I haven't seen the data but certainly here schools are full of it right now and that is not surprising given there is as yet still no vaccine for kids.
-
But there’s 60 million or so been vaccinated,
If you were worried about risk rates like this you’d never leave the house
Eh?? Never the leave the house? No, just not having the vaccine.
Imagine if I'd said to one you guys that I hope you suffer a blood clot on the brain, I'd be f**kin lynched on here and probably banned.
BST would tell me how morally corrupt I am.
I've been working non stop through out this, I've heard plenty of people say they've tested positive without so much as a runny nose and a bit of a temperature. Sounds like it's you who's scared to go out until everyone is vaxxed up.
I’ve also worked everyday throughout cocker.
Yes some people get mild symptoms, there’s thousands that get serious symptoms what’s hard to understand about that?
-
DBR/Glyn (and Nudga if you are still reading)
The graph below is the scary one for me. It shows that there has been a constant link between hospitalisations and deaths right the way through this epidemic. Including in the current wave, after vaccinations.
But here's the scary thing. To make those two sets of data lay on top of each other, I've not been consistent with the vertical axes. The right hand one (deaths) increases by a lot more than the left hand one (hospital cases). (By which I mean there are 9 doublings on the right hand axis and only 6 doublings on the left hand one.)
What this is saying is that right through the epidemic, before vaccinations or not, if you were admitted to hospital with COVID at a low point in the outbreak, you had a 1-in-16 chance of dying. Whereas if you went in at the very height of the epidemic, you had a 1-in-3 or 4 chance of dying. And there is no evidence yet that the vaccinations have had ANY effect on those relationships. Basically, what seems to be happening is that when the hospitals get overloaded, the quality of care they can give falls off a cliff. And we are running a serious risk of overloading them once again.
As has been mentioned in this thread earlier, the majority of these cases are the younger people who haven’t been vaccinated and who are a lot less likely to need hospitalisation.
So the trend from earlier waves won’t be relevant in this one.
-
But there’s 60 million or so been vaccinated,
If you were worried about risk rates like this you’d never leave the house
Eh?? Never the leave the house? No, just not having the vaccine.
Imagine if I'd said to one you guys that I hope you suffer a blood clot on the brain, I'd be f**kin lynched on here and probably banned.
BST would tell me how morally corrupt I am.
I've been working non stop through out this, I've heard plenty of people say they've tested positive without so much as a runny nose and a bit of a temperature. Sounds like it's you who's scared to go out until everyone is vaxxed up.
I’ve also worked everyday throughout cocker.
Yes some people get mild symptoms, there’s thousands that get serious symptoms what’s hard to understand about that?
I'll reword that for you, Cocker.
Yes there's thousands of people who get mild symptoms and some that get serious symptoms what’s hard to understand about that?
-
DBR/Glyn (and Nudga if you are still reading)
The graph below is the scary one for me. It shows that there has been a constant link between hospitalisations and deaths right the way through this epidemic. Including in the current wave, after vaccinations.
But here's the scary thing. To make those two sets of data lay on top of each other, I've not been consistent with the vertical axes. The right hand one (deaths) increases by a lot more than the left hand one (hospital cases). (By which I mean there are 9 doublings on the right hand axis and only 6 doublings on the left hand one.)
What this is saying is that right through the epidemic, before vaccinations or not, if you were admitted to hospital with COVID at a low point in the outbreak, you had a 1-in-16 chance of dying. Whereas if you went in at the very height of the epidemic, you had a 1-in-3 or 4 chance of dying. And there is no evidence yet that the vaccinations have had ANY effect on those relationships. Basically, what seems to be happening is that when the hospitals get overloaded, the quality of care they can give falls off a cliff. And we are running a serious risk of overloading them once again.
As has been mentioned in this thread earlier, the majority of these cases are the younger people who haven’t been vaccinated and who are a lot less likely to need hospitalisation.
So the trend from earlier waves won’t be relevant in this one.
That's what I'd have expected.
But have a look at that graph I posted. The trend of deaths per hospital admission is, so far, following EXACTLY the same path as waves 1 and 2. That's not an opinion or a prediction. It's an established fact.
-
But there’s 60 million or so been vaccinated,
If you were worried about risk rates like this you’d never leave the house
Eh?? Never the leave the house? No, just not having the vaccine.
Imagine if I'd said to one you guys that I hope you suffer a blood clot on the brain, I'd be f**kin lynched on here and probably banned.
BST would tell me how morally corrupt I am.
I've been working non stop through out this, I've heard plenty of people say they've tested positive without so much as a runny nose and a bit of a temperature. Sounds like it's you who's scared to go out until everyone is vaxxed up.
I’ve also worked everyday throughout cocker.
Yes some people get mild symptoms, there’s thousands that get serious symptoms what’s hard to understand about that?
I'll reword that for you, Cocker.
Yes there's thousands of people who get mild symptoms and some that get serious symptoms what’s hard to understand about that?
'Some' of course though to be in the 10's possibly 100's of thousands. In a recent survey 22% of people who have experienced long covid have yet to return to work.
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/224853/over-million-adults-england-have-long/
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jul/15/long-covid-has-more-than-200-symptoms-study-finds
-
But there’s 60 million or so been vaccinated,
If you were worried about risk rates like this you’d never leave the house
Eh?? Never the leave the house? No, just not having the vaccine.
Imagine if I'd said to one you guys that I hope you suffer a blood clot on the brain, I'd be f**kin lynched on here and probably banned.
BST would tell me how morally corrupt I am.
I've been working non stop through out this, I've heard plenty of people say they've tested positive without so much as a runny nose and a bit of a temperature. Sounds like it's you who's scared to go out until everyone is vaxxed up.
I’ve also worked everyday throughout cocker.
Yes some people get mild symptoms, there’s thousands that get serious symptoms what’s hard to understand about that?
I'll reword that for you, Cocker.
Yes there's thousands of people who get mild symptoms and some that get serious symptoms what’s hard to understand about that?
So if you acknowledge that thousands get serious illness from it, how can you think it’s ok for the people who get mild symptoms to walk about infecting people who may get the serious illness?
-
Nudga clearly hasn't had it. I did it was grim, properly grim. Nothing worse than struggling for breath walking around your house.
But I don't think we need another lockdown, the severe illness is much less of an issue now than it was.
-
Nudga clearly hasn't had it. I did it was grim, properly grim. Nothing worse than struggling for breath walking around your house.
But I don't think we need another lockdown, the severe illness is much less of an issue now than it was.
It affects people in different ways. I know a 95 year old who had it and only felt a bit off it for a week or so.
Then again I know a lad in his late 30s who had bleeding on the brain after it, surgery for 14 hours, where they literally had to take the top of his skull of to relieve the pressure. He's still recuperating months later.
-
Should the club put in some sort of short term strategy in social distancing measures place to help provide confidence for those who may not want to attend if the news of Covid-19 continues to rise .
-
Weekly update from Dr Rupert Suckling - Doncaster Council Director of Public Health:
"Our rates of COVID infection are the highest they have been in the entire pandemic for the period of 4-10 July at a rate of 605.7 cases per 100,000. We have 15 residents in hospital, two of which are in intensive care. Half of the people in hospital are under 50 and half are over 50. Therefore it shows that although the vaccination programme has weakened the link between infection hospitalisation and death it’s not broken completely."
I expect the attendance will be a bit thin for the opening game, that's if we are even allowed to attend.
-
New cases pass the 50,000 mark today and nearly 4,000 in hospital.
But it's starting to look very much like the sheer number of people self isolating is going to make it difficult to keep business as usual going for long.
-
Weekly update from Dr Rupert Suckling - Doncaster Council Director of Public Health:
"Our rates of COVID infection are the highest they have been in the entire pandemic for the period of 4-10 July at a rate of 605.7 cases per 100,000. We have 15 residents in hospital, two of which are in intensive care. Half of the people in hospital are under 50 and half are over 50. Therefore it shows that although the vaccination programme has weakened the link between infection hospitalisation and death it’s not broken completely."
I expect the attendance will be a bit thin for the opening game, that's if we are even allowed to attend.
So we’ve 7 or 8 people in hospital over 50 due to covid….
Go back to last year and we had hundreds,
-
Weekly update from Dr Rupert Suckling - Doncaster Council Director of Public Health:
"Our rates of COVID infection are the highest they have been in the entire pandemic for the period of 4-10 July at a rate of 605.7 cases per 100,000. We have 15 residents in hospital, two of which are in intensive care. Half of the people in hospital are under 50 and half are over 50. Therefore it shows that although the vaccination programme has weakened the link between infection hospitalisation and death it’s not broken completely."
I expect the attendance will be a bit thin for the opening game, that's if we are even allowed to attend.
So we’ve 7 or 8 people in hospital over 50 due to covid….
Go back to last year and we had hundreds,
The maximum number of COVID hospital cases in the Doncaster and Bassetlaw Teaching Hospitals Trust area (so more than just Donny Council) was 234 on 13 November last year.
There have only been 16 days in the entire epidemic when that number was over 200.
https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/05/Covid-Publication-06-04-2021.xlsx
That peak of hospitalisations came 3 weeks after the peak in new cases in Doncaster.
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/cases?areaType=ltla&areaName=Doncaster
What you aren't factoring in is that we are very likely nowhere near the peak of the current wave of new cases. So comparing the hospitalisations now with what they were at the last peak doesn't make any sense. What you need to be thinking about is what the situation will be after we hit the peak of new infections. Which very likely isn't coming for a month at the most optimistic best. Then consider that the number of COVID hospital cases in Donny & Bassetlaw Trust increased three fold in the last week of June (admittedly small numbers - from 3 to 9, but exponential growth starts with small numbers - and then they get a lot bigger very quickly). Whitty said today that total hospital cases across the country were doubling every three weeks. If that does pan out and we don't see the peak in hospital cases until early Sept, which is a very optimistic outlook, you're looking at Donny hospital cases approaching the previous peak by then. Just at the time of year that the NHS usually prioritises routine operations before the winter flu season.
-
What your doing is, attempting to analyse everything whilst ignoring the effects of the vaccination.
The number of cases doesn’t mean the same as what it meant before the vaccine roll out, so to keep suggesting the same things are going to happen is wrong.
The conversion rate from cases to hospitalisation won’t be the same but you talk as though is guranteed to be the same, it won’t be.
Also according to your stats, the 14th July had the lowest number of cases for around 3 weeks so maybe we’re a lot closer to the peak than you keep suggesting.
Throw into the mix that hundred of thousands more people are being vaccinated everyday and you can only conclude it’s not going to be anywhere near as bad as your suggesting
-
I give up. It's like talking to someone with his fingers in his ears. You are repeatedly ignoring the points I'm making.
I am NOT ignoring the effect of the vaccination program. I've factored that into everything I've said on this topic. What YOU are doing is simply assuming that the vaccination program will take the problem away. That is dangerously misguided.
-
I’m not
I’m just accepting that a comparison to rates before the vaccine came along is nonsensical
-
But it ISN'T nonsensical.
There was a rate of serious illness per infection before vaccines. There is one now.
The link between infection rates and rates of serious consequence has changed. But it is there. And it hasn't changed by as much as you seem to think it has.
The truly nonsensical thing is to wilfully ignore what we know abiut this link. Which is what Johnson and Javid are doing every time they make an announcement. They are fostering precisely the reaction that you are manifesting.
-
But the link is because there are still millions of people not vaccinated.
Once more people are vaccinated the link will diminish to one similar to other similar virus’s.
I just don’t understand why your not getting it!
-
I agree. Which is why I profoundly disagree with the unlocking next week.
What we SHOULD be doing is going balls out to get as many jabs in as many arms as possible.
Instead, the rate of vaccination has slowed dramatically in the last month.
So here's where we are. We WILL get herd Immunity over the next few months. But that will be achieved through several million people actually copping a dose as this wave engulfs us. And many of those are going to end up in serious trouble in hospitals, which are going to be stressed again.
And we are in this position because we totally lost control of the Delta variant, so we, pretty much alone in the developed world, are being overwhelmed by a third wave before we can get to herd Immunity levels of vaccination. And we are calling that a success.
-
I'm beginning to think the objective is to allow the wild virus to run free through the younger population to quickly gain herd immunity.
What's happening now is in my view quite sinister.
-
Countries all over the world are getting high volumes of new cases.
Look at France now, Australia, South Korea, parts of USA, Japan.
Don’t pretend we’re the only ones.
What you say WILL happen isn’t a fact, let’s come back in September and see what actually happened and if what you stated as fact really did happen
-
I suppose you could look at what has already happened and see how well the government handled the virus dickos.
-
Dickos you're admitting they are taking another gamble here.
So far they've been really poor gamblers.
And when they lose, it's not just the health consequences, the economic consequences are exasperated. Its a lose, lose.
-
Dickos you're admitting they are taking another gamble here.
So far they've been really poor gamblers.
And when they lose, it's not just the health consequences, the economic consequences are exasperated. Its a lose, lose.
But wouldnt the economic consequences be just as bad if we continue with restrictions RD.
As you say, either way it’s a lose lose situation.
-
Dickos you're admitting they are taking another gamble here.
So far they've been really poor gamblers.
And when they lose, it's not just the health consequences, the economic consequences are exasperated. Its a lose, lose.
But wouldnt the economic consequences be just as bad if we continue with restrictions RD.
As you say, either way it’s a lose lose situation.
This time no, I don't think the economic consequences would be as bad because this time their is the possibility of an exit strategy. Get 85%+ of the population properly immunised, this target is in view.
Then I would suggest continuing with masks and distancing indoors to surpress the virus still infecting the immunised, until immunisation levels across the globe improve.
-
We will never get 85 percent of the population immunised, the take up has slowed right down now and there is no reason to think it will go up much more I wouldn't think, what happens then, do we never open?
-
So far, more than 46 million people have had a first vaccine dose - almost 90% of the adult population.
It's just a matter of getting the second doses done and then the over 12s.
-
I suppose you could look at what has already happened and see how well the government handled the virus dickos.
I’m not arguing that the government have done a great job, I’ve no interest in party politics.
I’d be saying the same things whoever was in charge.
Some people though want to bring party politics into every subject, the virus should have nothing to do with party politics.
Even the Labour leader states this
-
I'm beginning to think the objective is to allow the wild virus to run free through the younger population to quickly gain herd immunity.
What's happening now is in my view quite sinister.
Of course that is the policy RD. Has been for a month.
-
I suppose you could look at what has already happened and see how well the government handled the virus dickos.
I’m not arguing that the government have done a great job, I’ve no interest in party politics.
I’d be saying the same things whoever was in charge.
Some people though want to bring party politics into every subject, the virus should have nothing to do with party politics.
Even the Labour leader states this
Ask yourself this.
Why did Sajid Javid last week say that the vaccination program had reduced the number of infected people who die by 160 fold? When the actual number is 6-7.
And are you saying that a comment like that should not be criticised because to criticise is party politics?
-
So far, more than 46 million people have had a first vaccine dose - almost 90% of the adult population.
It's just a matter of getting the second doses done and then the over 12s.
yes but I was answering to the post that said 85 percent of the population not adult population, then we would have to do the over 12s, so that from now is a minimum of what 3-4 months smack in the middle of winter, you will then say we can't open in winter, so be realistic we won't open till next summer is what your saying?
-
I suppose you could look at what has already happened and see how well the government handled the virus dickos.
I’m not arguing that the government have done a great job, I’ve no interest in party politics.
I’d be saying the same things whoever was in charge.
Some people though want to bring party politics into every subject, the virus should have nothing to do with party politics.
Even the Labour leader states this
Ask yourself this.
Why did Sajid Javid last week say that the vaccination program had reduced the number of infected people who die by 160 fold? When the actual number is 6-7.
And are you saying that a comment like that should not be criticised because to criticise is party politics?
Other than what you’re saying on here, there’s no where else suggesting your figures are any more correct than his.
-
So far, more than 46 million people have had a first vaccine dose - almost 90% of the adult population.
It's just a matter of getting the second doses done and then the over 12s.
yes but I was answering to the post that said 85 percent of the population not adult population
Blackpool,
You were saying we will never reach 85% of the total population.
At the moment, the figure is about 54% done.
The point is that the over 12's will be a significant proportion of the difference.
Vax them up, while still picking up the hesitant, and we would be in a much better position.
The decision to row back on controls is political, and set against the mainstream scientific opinion.
That is why Whitty is trying to swim against the instincts of the government.
-
Albie that will take months, it will be smack in middle of winter so we can't open then so we will not open till next summer at the earliest?
-
No, I don't think it needs to take months.
If we get back to the vaccination rate we had in the spring, we could do it by the end of August.
The current rate is slow, so that should be ramped up.
The consequence of opening up now is to make the future options hostage to fortune.
Managing the possibilities is best served by early decisive action, and not flip flopping every week.
-
There is a window now to get the over 12s vacinnated ready for the new school year.
-
It is suggested that around 8 to 9% of 18 to 25-year-olds are hesitant to take the jab, compared to 4% across other age groups. That could be at least part of the reason for the slowdown in the numbers receiving the jabs.
-
I suppose you could look at what has already happened and see how well the government handled the virus dickos.
I’m not arguing that the government have done a great job, I’ve no interest in party politics.
I’d be saying the same things whoever was in charge.
Some people though want to bring party politics into every subject, the virus should have nothing to do with party politics.
Even the Labour leader states this
Ask yourself this.
Why did Sajid Javid last week say that the vaccination program had reduced the number of infected people who die by 160 fold? When the actual number is 6-7.
And are you saying that a comment like that should not be criticised because to criticise is party politics?
Other than what you’re saying on here, there’s no where else suggesting your figures are any more correct than his.
Do some simple maths.
At the height of the January outbreak, we had 60,000 infections per day and 1200 deaths per day three weeks later.
20 deaths for every 1000 infections.
20 days ago, we were averaging about 15,000 new cases per day. If the fatality rate was now 160 times lower, we would now be expecting to see about 20/160 x 15 = 2 new deaths.
In fact we are averaging about 40 new deaths per day. Javid is wrong by about a factor of 2000%.
You cannot possibly argue with the logic or the infants school maths there. His figure of 160 fold decrease is outrageously and quite astonishingly wrong. The fact that journalists haven't picked up on that says a hell of a lot about their lack of technical understanding.
-
There is a window now to get the over 12s vacinnated ready for the new school year.
according to the bbc there is no announcement Due in the near future that 12-15 year olds will be vaccinated, what then? What when people need a booster jab do we then wait for them? Then the next people need a booster jab and there is winter and a new variant, going down your route we will not open until we're at zero cases
-
Bpool, I've been saying this for weeks, neigh months. Good luck with getting an answer.
-
Countries all over the world are getting high volumes of new cases.
Look at France now, Australia, South Korea, parts of USA, Japan.
Don’t pretend we’re the only ones.
What you say WILL happen isn’t a fact, let’s come back in September and see what actually happened and if what you stated as fact really did happen
139 new cases in Aus on the last update…
-
There is a window now to get the over 12s vacinnated ready for the new school year.
according to the bbc there is no announcement Due in the near future that 12-15 year olds will be vaccinated, what then? What when people need a booster jab do we then wait for them? Then the next people need a booster jab and there is winter and a new variant, going down your route we will not open until we're at zero cases
What then? I don't know. I think it's a mistake not to be a vaccinating now while the opportunity is here.
They should continue ramping up capacity to deliver vaccinations as required. Whether they will is another matter...
-
There is a window now to get the over 12s vacinnated ready for the new school year.
according to the bbc there is no announcement Due in the near future that 12-15 year olds will be vaccinated, what then? What when people need a booster jab do we then wait for them? Then the next people need a booster jab and there is winter and a new variant, going down your route we will not open until we're at zero cases
What then? I don't know. I think it's a mistake not to be a vaccinating now while the opportunity is here.
They should continue ramping up capacity to deliver vaccinations as required. Whether they will is another matter...
they have ramped it up but the number of take ups from the 18plus group has slowed right down and I'm not sure there will be as good a take up as was hoped for, so again what then keep waiting, you make really valid good points rd but still what if we don't reach anywhere near these numbers you hope to reach
-
Countries all over the world are getting high volumes of new cases.
Look at France now, Australia, South Korea, parts of USA, Japan.
Don’t pretend we’re the only ones.
What you say WILL happen isn’t a fact, let’s come back in September and see what actually happened and if what you stated as fact really did happen
139 new cases in Aus on the last update…
Yes, doubling every 4/5 days at the minute, they could be in for a rough ride. Especially when you consider their disastrous vaccine roll out
-
Maybe we aren’t so bad after all.
-
Maybe we should go on the Australian Donny Rovers forum and spend 20 hours a day telling them how shit their country and government is!
-
Maybe we should go on the Australian Donny Rovers forum and spend 20 hours a day telling them how shit their country and government is!
No one would care BB.
-
I suppose you could look at what has already happened and see how well the government handled the virus dickos.
I’m not arguing that the government have done a great job, I’ve no interest in party politics.
I’d be saying the same things whoever was in charge.
Some people though want to bring party politics into every subject, the virus should have nothing to do with party politics.
Even the Labour leader states this
Ask yourself this.
Why did Sajid Javid last week say that the vaccination program had reduced the number of infected people who die by 160 fold? When the actual number is 6-7.
And are you saying that a comment like that should not be criticised because to criticise is party politics?
Other than what you’re saying on here, there’s no where else suggesting your figures are any more correct than his.
Do some simple maths.
At the height of the January outbreak, we had 60,000 infections per day and 1200 deaths per day three weeks later.
20 deaths for every 1000 infections.
20 days ago, we were averaging about 15,000 new cases per day. If the fatality rate was now 160 times lower, we would now be expecting to see about 20/160 x 15 = 2 new deaths.
In fact we are averaging about 40 new deaths per day. Javid is wrong by about a factor of 2000%.
You cannot possibly argue with the logic or the infants school maths there. His figure of 160 fold decrease is outrageously and quite astonishingly wrong. The fact that journalists haven't picked up on that says a hell of a lot about their lack of technical understanding.
Incredible isn’t it, that journalists aren’t backing you up over this.
-
Maybe we should go on the Australian Donny Rovers forum and spend 20 hours a day telling them how shit their country and government is!
I've no idea who you could possibly be referring to there, BB.
-
Maybe we should go on the Australian Donny Rovers forum and spend 20 hours a day telling them how shit their country and government is!
or you could spend your life asking dumb questions on a donny rovers site making an ass of yourself with great regularity aye bb
-
Well, I could do Skippy, but then you'd get jealous of the rivalry.
-
Maybe we should go on the Australian Donny Rovers forum and spend 20 hours a day telling them how shit their country and government is!
No one would care BB.
if all those whom no longer lived in donny or those with an overseas connection left the forum you would be left with a pretty boring white bread collection. no one cares about your petty little squabbles hound
-
So you've no comment on the logic Hound? Just another pointless pot stirring post?
-
Well, I could do Skippy, but then you'd get jealous of the rivalry.
hound does emulate you of course but it's would be a streeeeeeeeetch to claim jealousy
-
By the way, an observation on how f**king useless our journalists are, the BBC Health Correspondent said on TV, radio and on their website numerous times the week before last that at the height of the last wave, for every 1000 infection, there were 60 deaths.
At the peak in January, there were around 60,000 infections per day and around 1200 deaths.
Do the maths yourself.
He also said that as of a fortnight ago, for every 1000 new infections in the current wave there was one death. Which was based on taking the deaths and new cases reported on the same day (27 and 27,000). Bizarrely assuming that people who died had only tested positive on the same day. In fact, the actual figure was 3-4 per thousand.
So he claimed, repeatedly, that the vaccination programme had reduced the danger of dying by 60 fold. Which was about 900-1200% wrong. Bad enough, but much less misleading than Javid's claim. But bizarrely, he didn't comment on Javid's claim. So he's f**king useless both at maths and at reporting.
-
Quick Billy, change the subject! One of your footmen is getting rather embarrassing.
-
Quick Billy, change the subject! One of your footmen is getting rather embarrassing.
hound, selby and SS are on there way bb try to hold on
-
Skippy, If you really think I need anybody to back me up against you and your phony mate you are as wrong as you have been on just about every opinion you've expressed on this forum.
I'll give you one thing though, you are consistent.
-
Skippy, If you really think I need anybody to back me up against you and your phony mate you are as wrong as you have been on just about every opinion you've expressed on this forum.
I'll give you one thing though, you are consistent.
never said they need to bb but it is remarkably like the Larry, Curly, Moe and Shemp Howard show
-
Like I said Skip, you are consistent.
-
Like I said Skip, you are consistent.
Just explain who is spreading batshit stories about british vaccines bb and if so why the majority have ignored this and have been vaccinated? in your own time, you can of course ring a friend ................
-
The majority of people realize the advantages of having the AZ jab far outweigh not having a jab at all. However, because of concerns expressed by other countries regarding the AZ jab, the UK has had to respond to it and has chosen to restrict that vaccine to people above a certain age. As a result, it could well be the case now that had it not been for the concerns about the side effects of the AZ jab the world, and the UK death/infection rate might have been less, because more people would have been immunized.
It is strongly believed that the AZ vaccine was condemned for political reasons, because of its British connection.
-
The majority of people realize the advantages of having the AZ jab far outweigh not having a jab at all. However, because of concerns expressed by other countries regarding the AZ jab, the UK has had to respond to it and has chosen to restrict that vaccine to people above a certain age. As a result, it could well be the case now that had it not been for the concerns about the side effects of the AZ jab the world death rate might have been less, because more people would have been immunized.
It is strongly believed that the AZ vaccine was condemned for political reasons, because of its British connection.
Risks with vaccine use is balanced against the risk to health in ones age group to contracting the virus and the associated health problems. The risk of catching the virus in the UK is extremely high at present and getting worse on a daily basis therefore the the balance is tipping towards having the vaccine as a safer option than not.
Each country has it's own approvals organisation and system that advises governments on the vaccine and age group risk. The AZ vaccine has associated risk for younger people however as the health risk grows as daily virus numbers grow the vaccine risk becomes less. In Australia the AZ vaccine was only recommended by government to those 60+ but as they have totally f**ked up the roll out they have now said younger people can and should consult their GP to get advice on this.
I would have thought that the British government would strongly reject any gratuitous advice from ferringhis on the continent on this subject, no?
And here the UK government is doing exactly that, are you saying that the british public are taking advice from the germans and others rather than their own government, why would they do such a thing if they trusted johnson and hancock etc? Are there not enough other vaccine types available, if not why not?
''UK defends Oxford vaccine as Germany advises against use on over-65s
Boris Johnson and head of UK regulator say vaccine produces immune response in all age groups''
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/28/germany-recommends-oxford-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-not-used-over-65s
-
So you've no comment on the logic Hound? Just another pointless pot stirring post?
Possibly added as much to the subject as you have just done BST.
Double standards I guess.
-
On the issue of age safety of vaccines, this is a relevant link from the government website;
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/the-mhra-concludes-positive-safety-profile-for-pfizerbiontech-vaccine-in-12-to-15-year-olds
The date of publication is interesting, early June.
Now since then we have done bugger all about this, causing a much bigger long term infection problem.
Why?
-
On the issue of age safety of vaccines, this is a relevant link from the government website;
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/the-mhra-concludes-positive-safety-profile-for-pfizerbiontech-vaccine-in-12-to-15-year-olds
The date of publication is interesting, early June.
Now since then we have done bugger all about this, causing a much bigger long term infection problem.
Why? They have pretty much said today only 12-17with health issues will receive it
-
On the issue of age safety of vaccines, this is a relevant link from the government website;
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/the-mhra-concludes-positive-safety-profile-for-pfizerbiontech-vaccine-in-12-to-15-year-olds
The date of publication is interesting, early June.
Now since then we have done bugger all about this, causing a much bigger long term infection problem.
Why?
Why do you think they’ve done bugger all?
-
My best guess is that they think it is less important to vax the kids because they are less likely to die from covid.
That logic only takes you so far.
By all means cover the most vulnerable first, which the UK has done now.
Once past that, you need to clamp down on the spread of infection.
This is where the kids have a role, so if you know it is safe, vax them to reduce transmission.
What you should not do is open up by relaxing controls, then try to get the genii back in the bottle by deciding to vax the kids afterwards.
That's my take!
-
Albie.
It's a no brained to vaccinate teens as this helps get us closer to HI. However, the AZ vaccine hasn't been approved for use in (I think) under-30s. (I know! It's that unpatriotic regulator undermining Britain.)
I read somewhere that supplies of the Pfizer and Moderns vaccines (which have been approved for over-12s) were low. Maybe this is why we aren't vaccinating teens?
-
BST,
My understanding was that the AZ was not the preferred option for the younger age groups.
If there is a supply issue with Pfizer and Moderna, that could be a factor.
I have not seen that there is a problem with supplies.
The JVCI have still not given approval, despite the link from the government website I posted.
Given that others are going full tilt at this, the delay makes little sense;
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/covid-19-vaccination-children
The timing of this is a big problem, given we are going into restriction lifting on Monday.
There is no rational explanation for setting these events in train in this order.
-
Albie.
As I said, I have just read somewhere about the vaccine supplies. No idea if that is correct. But whatever, I could not agree more with your final paragraph.