Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Bailey Vickerage on September 13, 2021, 04:12:08 pm
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Just posted on Instagram a photo of him and Ed Williams at Cantley park
“Good day at the office with my boy @_edcwilliams #exiled”
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He’s put the time on there as well. Probably quite significant.
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He’s put the time on there as well. Probably quite significant.
Yh noticed that, didn’t know that Williams had been frozen out aswell. Hopefully it might make them wanna get a move in January.
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Think he’s removed the picture now.
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I think this could be handled by the club a bit better but for a grown man to post that like Omar has is full on embarrassing.
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Especially when he’s been offered a loan at Grimsby and he doesn’t want to go to the National League. You would have thought both would accept loans to the National League at least they are playing football until the next transfer window. The situation is not good for them or the club.
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He’s taking the piss.
Darren Moore did a right job on us didn’t he?
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Couldn’t agree more PDX.
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Has he brought the club into disrepute...?
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Has he brought the club into disrepute...?
That was my thought. Get him sacked.
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Both of them are taking the piss out of the club. I had some sympathy at first but that’s gone completely now, they’ve shown they’re more interested in taking silly pictures than playing football. They’re stealing a living.
Bogle has shown precious little desire in a Rovers shirt and has blatantly refused opportunities to play football elsewhere. He could’ve maintained his wage on a loan deal too but he’d rather do nothing. Pathetic.
I remember Rigo (or whatever he calls himself now) waxing lyrical about Ed Williams when we signed him. You could’ve been forgiven for thinking we were getting the next Steven Gerrard. The only worse judgement than that is Darren Moore’s in handing him a two year contract. Absolute time wasters.
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Bogle and Williams have contracts that they want to continue.....they are fully within their rights to do so.
Leaving them out of the squad, or asking them to train away from the group is very poor management from DRFC.
Some on here think that the club should punish players for keeping to the contract DRFC signed them under....this is nonsense on stilts.
In any other industry this would be seen as an attempt at constructive dismissal, and would provoke trade union involvement.
I am not commenting on whether the deal offered by other clubs should have been accepted, because none of us know what was on offer. Easy to say that they should have left without knowing the details.
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Got to agree with albie they have every right to turn other teams down, bogle might think he is better than the conference
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Don't like players airing the dirty laundry in public and would imagine they're in breach of some kind of social media policy but without wanting to be in the minority here, there's definitely a few managers spoken badly about in autobiographies and podcasts like Undr The Cosh that have made players train away from the main group.
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Got to agree with albie they have every right to turn other teams down, bogle might think he is better than the conference
Yes they do have every right to turn down other offers, they don’t have the right to disrespect their employers on social media though
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Bogle and Williams have contracts that they want to continue.....they are fully within their rights to do so.
Leaving them out of the squad, or asking them to train away from the group is very poor management from DRFC.
Some on here think that the club should punish players for keeping to the contract DRFC signed them under....this is nonsense on stilts.
In any other industry this would be seen as an attempt at constructive dismissal, and would provoke trade union involvement.
I am not commenting on whether the deal offered by other clubs should have been accepted, because none of us know what was on offer. Easy to say that they should have left without knowing the details.
It’s been made clear they won’t play games here, and nor should they. Bogle has shown no effort and Williams has shown no anything. I get that they’re under contract, but the point is they could’ve gone out on loan and played games and still pulled in the same money that they’re contracted to receive. Instead they’ve chosen to do nothing, and are happy posting silly pictures that are ridiculing the club.
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We don't know that they would have pulled in the same money thou that just a guess, and has anyone actually come in for Williams, and to be honest against Accrington bogle put plenty of effort in and it was probably his best game for us
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We don't know that they would have pulled in the same money thou that just a guess, and has anyone actually come in for Williams, and to be honest against Accrington bogle put plenty of effort in and it was probably his best game for us
It’s not a guess. If a player is loaned out they will pick up the same basic wage that they’re contracted to receive. The benefit to us would be that we would (hopefully) receive a contribution towards that from the club that takes them. The player would get the chance to play games and regain confidence and fitness. But Bogle and Williams would clearly rather pick up money for nothing.
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We don't know that they would have pulled in the same money thou that just a guess, and has anyone actually come in for Williams, and to be honest against Accrington bogle put plenty of effort in and it was probably his best game for us
It’s not a guess. If a player is loaned out they will pick up the same basic wage that they’re contracted to receive. The benefit to us would be that we would (hopefully) receive a contribution towards that from the club that takes them. The player would get the chance to play games and regain confidence and fitness. But Bogle and Williams would clearly rather pick up money for nothing.
yes your right I read it wrong sorry, I'm still not sure anyone came in for Williams and bogle still has that right as we were silly enough to sign him
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I think there’s a lot of assumptions being made here by people who don’t know the exact details. To be become a professional footballer takes a lot of endeavour, desire and perseverance. To suggest players who have got to this position and made these sacrifices, are now happy training away from the rest of the team just doesn’t ring true. I don’t honestly think anyone would feel good being deemed surplus to requirements. Now if offers come in for these players, the offer needs to be right for the player, it’s their prerogative to turn it down. Like anyone been offered a new job there’s lot of factors to take into account.
Now putting stuff on Twitter isn’t very clever but I’d say it’s the modern way, 95% of stuff on Twitter is nonsense. Someone needs to have a word with him about this.
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Playing devils advocate Andy Butler was doing the same in a more subtle way. Tweeting about his bike rides at times he would have been training.
He knew what he was doing with those tweets.
I’m quite obviously not comparing their contributions to the club by the way. Butlers will never be questioned. Bogle and Williams have been dreadful for us.
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if wigan paid a million for him and Cardiff "£700,000
he can't exactly be "allegedly" "poor"
"allegedly" maybe "just as thick as my "logo" "
Wigan Athletic
On 31 January 2017, Bogle signed for Championship side Wigan Athletic on a two-and-a-half-year deal for an undisclosed fee;[55] this included a number of additional potential financial benefits for Bogle’s former clubs if Wigan maintained their Championship status in the current season, or returned to the Premier League.[56]
Bogle made his first appearance for the club on 3 February 2017 in a 1–0 defeat against Sheffield Wednesday, coming off the bench to replace Will Grigg in the 67th minute.[57] His first two goals for Wigan came during his full debut on 7 February 2017 in a 2–2 draw at home to Norwich City.[58] Bogle scored his third and final goal of the 2016-17 Championship campaign from the penalty spot in a 2–1 defeat at Queens Park Rangers.[59]
Cardiff City
On 17 August 2017, Bogle signed for Championship side Cardiff City on a three-year deal for an officially undisclosed fee,[60] although Cardiff manager Neil Warnock later stated that the transfer fee was £700,000.[61]
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Has he brought the club into disrepute...?
Why ?
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Has he brought the club into disrepute...?
Why ?
I suspect some may think he could have breached some sort of code of conduct ? Standards of behaviour that are written into a players contract ? I do t k le if there is a such a thing to be fair.
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Has he brought the club into disrepute...?
Why ?
If they have a grievance then there's processes to go through.
Not very clever of them to go down this road is it?
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I think there’s a lot of assumptions being made here by people who don’t know the exact details. To be become a professional footballer takes a lot of endeavour, desire and perseverance. To suggest players who have got to this position and made these sacrifices, are now happy training away from the rest of the team just doesn’t ring true. I don’t honestly think anyone would feel good being deemed surplus to requirements. Now if offers come in for these players, the offer needs to be right for the player, it’s their prerogative to turn it down. Like anyone been offered a new job there’s lot of factors to take into account.
Now putting stuff on Twitter isn’t very clever but I’d say it’s the modern way, 95% of stuff on Twitter is nonsense. Someone needs to have a word with him about this.
Well said.
I'm surprised a bit (well, not really) at some of the things being said about this Bogle post/situation here and on Twitter.
At the end of the day, Bogle and Williams will be fed up. They're here, they're contracted and not me thing has come out suggesting they haven't shown commitment to the club. Wellens has frozen them out of training for the crime of not quite being good enough. Venting about it online is nothing new do, as far as professionalism goes...what do they have to lose? They've already been told they've got no chance of playing and can't even train with the team anymore.
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I think there’s a lot of assumptions being made here by people who don’t know the exact details. To be become a professional footballer takes a lot of endeavour, desire and perseverance. To suggest players who have got to this position and made these sacrifices, are now happy training away from the rest of the team just doesn’t ring true. I don’t honestly think anyone would feel good being deemed surplus to requirements. Now if offers come in for these players, the offer needs to be right for the player, it’s their prerogative to turn it down. Like anyone been offered a new job there’s lot of factors to take into account.
Now putting stuff on Twitter isn’t very clever but I’d say it’s the modern way, 95% of stuff on Twitter is nonsense. Someone needs to have a word with him about this.
Well said.
I'm surprised a bit (well, not really) at some of the things being said about this Bogle post/situation here and on Twitter.
At the end of the day, Bogle and Williams will be fed up. They're here, they're contracted and not me thing has come out suggesting they haven't shown commitment to the club. Wellens has frozen them out of training for the crime of not quite being good enough. Venting about it online is nothing new do, as far as professionalism goes...what do they have to lose? They've already been told they've got no chance of playing and can't even train with the team anymore.
Certainly in Bogle’s case, that’s his choice. He’s chosen this ahead of accepting offers to play football. So what’s he moaning about? And moreover why do you read it as venting? He’s chosen this. And that’s my issue, I don’t see it as moaning, I see it as gloating that they’re getting money for nothing. And that’s disrespectful to my club.
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They likely hope they are long here after Wellens has gone. Look at Luke Shaw under Jose and Dele Alli too both waited on the hopes of him being fired.
Right or wrong it appears to a be a complete mismanaged situation by DRFC.
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Don't like players airing the dirty laundry in public and would imagine they're in breach of some kind of social media policy but without wanting to be in the minority here, there's definitely a few managers spoken badly about in autobiographies and podcasts like Undr The Cosh that have made players train away from the main group.
The way in which the club has dealt with this has been shocking. It has hung the players out to dry. You cannot complain about players going public on "dirty washing" when the club has essentially been scapegoating them in public for a month. As Albie says, in any other industry, this would be a case of constructive dismissal
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In other industries, people with a record like Bogle's would have been legitimately dismissed for being unable to hit the target.
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Just consider if this happened to you.
You go in to work as usual, and a new boss says I don't think you are up to it, you will have to work down in the shed, and have no interaction with colleagues.......not very nice is it, and a form of bullying!
The reason a player might choose to not move on does not have to be about money, or football for that matter.
Maybe his partner does not want to move, perhaps the kids have just settled at school.
Lots of non football reasons to consider.
Rovers are an employer of these players, and need to treat them fairly and with respect to the employment rules. Some folk seem to think that they can moved out against what they see as their best interests....again, put yourself in their shoes for a minute.
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My loyalty lies squarely with my football club ahead of two players that have been nothing short of dreadful since joining, and get paid more in a week than lots of people earn in a month.
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It is not about loyalty, Jonathan.
For me, it is about fairness.
There is no good reason why both could not train as part of the group, but on the understanding that the manager does not think that they fit with his plans.
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It is not about loyalty, Jonathan.
For me, it is about fairness.
There is no good reason why both could not train as part of the group, but on the understanding that the manager does not think that they fit with his plans.
That can only be the managers decision. He has to determine whether they would be a help or a hindrance in training. If he has made his decision that neither will play again, then he probably doesn't want to risk them not pulling their weight in training.
Only speculation of course but the group who will feature have to come first.
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I'm probably being a bit dim here, and I haven't seen the offending post, but from what's been quoted on hereI can't see that it's disrespectful in the slightest. He's had a good day at the office with another guy? What's wrong with saying that?
BobG
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My loyalty lies squarely with my football club ahead of two players that have been nothing short of dreadful since joining, and get paid more in a week than lots of people earn in a month.
It was the club that offered them contracts which pay them that amount. The club is 100% at fault here, both for signing the players then attempting to bully them out of their contracts. Terrible initial decisions, followed by a thoroughly unprofessional publicising of actions that should remain behind closed doors. Think what image this projects to potential future signings.
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I think there’s a lot of assumptions being made here by people who don’t know the exact details. To be become a professional footballer takes a lot of endeavour, desire and perseverance. To suggest players who have got to this position and made these sacrifices, are now happy training away from the rest of the team just doesn’t ring true. I don’t honestly think anyone would feel good being deemed surplus to requirements. Now if offers come in for these players, the offer needs to be right for the player, it’s their prerogative to turn it down. Like anyone been offered a new job there’s lot of factors to take into account.
Now putting stuff on Twitter isn’t very clever but I’d say it’s the modern way, 95% of stuff on Twitter is nonsense. Someone needs to have a word with him about this.
Well said.
I'm surprised a bit (well, not really) at some of the things being said about this Bogle post/situation here and on Twitter.
At the end of the day, Bogle and Williams will be fed up. They're here, they're contracted and not me thing has come out suggesting they haven't shown commitment to the club. Wellens has frozen them out of training for the crime of not quite being good enough. Venting about it online is nothing new do, as far as professionalism goes...what do they have to lose? They've already been told they've got no chance of playing and can't even train with the team anymore.
Certainly in Bogle’s case, that’s his choice. He’s chosen this ahead of accepting offers to play football. So what’s he moaning about? And moreover why do you read it as venting? He’s chosen this. And that’s my issue, I don’t see it as moaning, I see it as gloating that they’re getting money for nothing. And that’s disrespectful to my club.
Why should Bogle just accept any offer to play that comes his way? If you got told by your employer you weren't up to your job, but another company will pay you much less to do the same thing and you should go there for their benefit, would you do it?
Bogle was given a contract by Doncaster Rovers to play in League One. 6 months prior he was a Championship player. Yet now some of our fans think he should go to Grimsby in the National League just to play, or join a League Two side on what must be far less money. He's done nothing to deserve being disrespected by a section of our fanbase, other than not play well for us.
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The whole situation is a shameful matter, RW as not managed the situation correct, he’s been bullish over the situation with OB
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I can understand why they are acting like they are when they have been publicly called out by the manager and not wanted. Wellens and the club have handled this situation badly and I think the only way out of it will be to cough up and pay them off and come to a mutual agreement.
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I think there’s a lot of assumptions being made here by people who don’t know the exact details. To be become a professional footballer takes a lot of endeavour, desire and perseverance. To suggest players who have got to this position and made these sacrifices, are now happy training away from the rest of the team just doesn’t ring true. I don’t honestly think anyone would feel good being deemed surplus to requirements. Now if offers come in for these players, the offer needs to be right for the player, it’s their prerogative to turn it down. Like anyone been offered a new job there’s lot of factors to take into account.
Now putting stuff on Twitter isn’t very clever but I’d say it’s the modern way, 95% of stuff on Twitter is nonsense. Someone needs to have a word with him about this.
Well said.
I'm surprised a bit (well, not really) at some of the things being said about this Bogle post/situation here and on Twitter.
At the end of the day, Bogle and Williams will be fed up. They're here, they're contracted and not me thing has come out suggesting they haven't shown commitment to the club. Wellens has frozen them out of training for the crime of not quite being good enough. Venting about it online is nothing new do, as far as professionalism goes...what do they have to lose? They've already been told they've got no chance of playing and can't even train with the team anymore.
Certainly in Bogle’s case, that’s his choice. He’s chosen this ahead of accepting offers to play football. So what’s he moaning about? And moreover why do you read it as venting? He’s chosen this. And that’s my issue, I don’t see it as moaning, I see it as gloating that they’re getting money for nothing. And that’s disrespectful to my club.
Why should Bogle just accept any offer to play that comes his way? If you got told by your employer you weren't up to your job, but another company will pay you much less to do the same thing and you should go there for their benefit, would you do it?
Bogle was given a contract by Doncaster Rovers to play in League One. 6 months prior he was a Championship player. Yet now some of our fans think he should go to Grimsby in the National League just to play, or join a League Two side on what must be far less money. He's done nothing to deserve being disrespected by a section of our fanbase, other than not play well for us.
I’ve got some sympathy with this. Dropping to non league would be a big reputation hit for Omar. It is one thing staying in league football at League Two but dropping from Championship to non league in a year is pretty bad. He did get offered a League Two gig though which he seemingly turned down. That I think is less defensible especially if it was a big club like Bradford, as rumoured.
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He’s taking the piss.
Darren Moore did a right job on us didn’t he?
Easy to blame Darren Moore (and I'd like to) and pretend the problem has sorted itself, but doesn't blame lay at our wider talent acquisition team? Of which DM was only a part..
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Bogle and Williams have contracts that they want to continue.....they are fully within their rights to do so.
Leaving them out of the squad, or asking them to train away from the group is very poor management from DRFC.
Some on here think that the club should punish players for keeping to the contract DRFC signed them under....this is nonsense on stilts.
In any other industry this would be seen as an attempt at constructive dismissal, and would provoke trade union involvement.
I am not commenting on whether the deal offered by other clubs should have been accepted, because none of us know what was on offer. Easy to say that they should have left without knowing the details.
thats right albie ,you can't just bully people out,
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I think there’s a lot of assumptions being made here by people who don’t know the exact details. To be become a professional footballer takes a lot of endeavour, desire and perseverance. To suggest players who have got to this position and made these sacrifices, are now happy training away from the rest of the team just doesn’t ring true. I don’t honestly think anyone would feel good being deemed surplus to requirements. Now if offers come in for these players, the offer needs to be right for the player, it’s their prerogative to turn it down. Like anyone been offered a new job there’s lot of factors to take into account.
Now putting stuff on Twitter isn’t very clever but I’d say it’s the modern way, 95% of stuff on Twitter is nonsense. Someone needs to have a word with him about this.
Well said.
I'm surprised a bit (well, not really) at some of the things being said about this Bogle post/situation here and on Twitter.
At the end of the day, Bogle and Williams will be fed up. They're here, they're contracted and not me thing has come out suggesting they haven't shown commitment to the club. Wellens has frozen them out of training for the crime of not quite being good enough. Venting about it online is nothing new do, as far as professionalism goes...what do they have to lose? They've already been told they've got no chance of playing and can't even train with the team anymore.
Certainly in Bogle’s case, that’s his choice. He’s chosen this ahead of accepting offers to play football. So what’s he moaning about? And moreover why do you read it as venting? He’s chosen this. And that’s my issue, I don’t see it as moaning, I see it as gloating that they’re getting money for nothing. And that’s disrespectful to my club.
Why should Bogle just accept any offer to play that comes his way? If you got told by your employer you weren't up to your job, but another company will pay you much less to do the same thing and you should go there for their benefit, would you do it?
Bogle was given a contract by Doncaster Rovers to play in League One. 6 months prior he was a Championship player. Yet now some of our fans think he should go to Grimsby in the National League just to play, or join a League Two side on what must be far less money. He's done nothing to deserve being disrespected by a section of our fanbase, other than not play well for us.
At any time since he's been at the Rovers has Bogle ever looked like a Championship footballer or even a Lg1 footballer? He is in a position of his own making, He hasn't even remotely done his job on the pitch since DM left. Richie Wellens, seeing the situation with Bogle when he came tried the supporting approach with him and gave him enough chances to prove himself and has arrived at the decision that he is either not good enough or is not making the effort. The club has put in the effort to get Bogle an Williams loan offers and no club in the EFL has shown any interest, that sort of suggests to me that they too don't rate them as good enough.
And as for requiring them to train alone, BobG has explained the process likely to have been followed by the club.
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People were wanting the club to give Joe Wright a contract and pay him for a year after he got injured and turned us down. Out of fairness and because the club is morally sound. Applied to Bogle and Williams the tables have turned.
We've dealt with it poorly partly because of desperation partly because Wellens is so open in interviews. As others have said in any other workplace DRFC are firmly in the wrong, morally at least if not legally.
I don't think a moan on social media is as bad as what has been communicated about the players through official channels either. Did he lie in any of the posts? seems a genuine reflection of their workday to me... Not saying they are saints who add value to the club but we have obligations to them as employees that doesn't change no matter how useless they are.
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He’s taking the piss.
Darren Moore did a right job on us didn’t he?
Easy to blame Darren Moore (and I'd like to) and pretend the problem has sorted itself, but doesn't blame lay at our wider talent acquisition team? Of which DM was only a part..
managers live and die on how their players perform and are hardly likely to want to buy a player that isn't going to perform.
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Clearly there are some very different opinions on this and that’s fine, I’m not stubborn or thick enough not to recognise the points people have made about how the club could have handled this differently / better. But ultimately I stand by my view that Bogle and Williams are taking the piss out of the club a bit, and that’s what riles me. There are obviously a lot of nicer people than me out there that are more bothered than I can bring myself to be about the effect it’s having on two players that have done so little for us. Is it their fault that we gave them the contracts? Of course not. But Wellens was asking things of Bogle and he just wasn’t doing it - and that’s been there for all of us to see. He doesn’t make the runs he’s asked to, and he doesn’t look interested. So I get why Wellens is frustrated that the players and their agents have shown no desire to find a better environment elsewhere.
Could the club and Wellens have handled it better? Yes I’d have to admit they could have. But, irrespective of that, I’m more inclined to back them than this pair of time wasters.
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When I was at school I spent a couple of weeks studying in a maths group. The other pupils were a lot smarter than me and it become apparent I couldn't keep up with them and do what the teacher was asking.
After a chat with the teacher it was agreed that I would move to a less demanding course.
I wasn't bullied, I just found my level.
I think that's what's happened to these two lads. They haven't been bullied or exiled, they just found their level. :)
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A lot of assumptions being made about the conduct of the club. We don't know that Bogle and Williams have done wrong. But we don't know that the club have, either. How do we know Bogle and Williams haven't been sacking off training, or that they didn't conduct themselves poorly in the transfer negotiations? We don't. There could be a very good reason they're being frozen out - we just don't know, and probably never will.
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Can you image the furore if RW kept the dirty laundry in the dressing room and Bogle wasn’t playing. Can you imagine the questions from fans. He is not injured, why is he not playing? Etc etc.
RW was caught between a rock and a hard place. A no win situation.
It is unsavoury. No one wants this situation. If bogle wants to play football ( which you have to question) then a lot is down to him.square peg round hole perhaps ?
Either way he is getting paid, whilst the football club get no return for their outlay. Instead there is bad feeling and this is doing no one any good.
I suspect there is much more to this than him just not suiting wellens plans. I suspect there have been words said and bad feeling generated which no one will recover from. Why else would you not play a fit player, irrespective of how incompatible his play is to wellens plans.
Wellens was shown the door by Ferguson not too many years ago. He thought he could do the same with Bogle. It has not worked out.
I can only imagine how that conversation went between the two of them. You are not good enough for my plans so I think it’s best for all of you move on? Is bogle the sort of person to take this on the chin, perhaps not?
And here we have a player now who is proclaiming he has been exiled.
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Clearly there are some very different opinions on this and that’s fine, I’m not stubborn or thick enough not to recognise the points people have made about how the club could have handled this differently / better. But ultimately I stand by my view that Bogle and Williams are taking the piss out of the club a bit, and that’s what riles me. There are obviously a lot of nicer people than me out there that are more bothered than I can bring myself to be about the effect it’s having on two players that have done so little for us. Is it their fault that we gave them the contracts? Of course not. But Wellens was asking things of Bogle and he just wasn’t doing it - and that’s been there for all of us to see. He doesn’t make the runs he’s asked to, and he doesn’t look interested. So I get why Wellens is frustrated that the players and their agents have shown no desire to find a better environment elsewhere.
Could the club and Wellens have handled it better? Yes I’d have to admit they could have. But, irrespective of that, I’m more inclined to back them than this pair of time wasters.
100% agree with that Jonathan.
People making comparisons to how Bogle would have been dealt with in any other normal employment environment are a bit wide of the mark IMO. It's not realistic to compare the world of professional football with the 'normal' world of work.
For example, in the company I work for, if we have an employee who is not performing to the required standards, that person would be taken aside and spoken to.
It would be explained carefully and thoroughly to him / her what was expected, and where he / she was falling short. Any assistance or clarification by the company to help the employee understand what was expected and what he / she needed to do to meet the required standards would be discussed and offered.
So far, I think that's what appears to have happened between RW and Bogle.
If the employee still failed to meet the standards required, a disciplinary process would commence. Ultimately, this could lead to dismissal and termination of the employee's contract if he / she failed to improve or to carry out reasonable instructions.
RW isn't able to take that particular route with Bogle because it appears that being crap isn't grounds for termination of contract without the Club paying out a large termination settlement.
RW / DRFC have actually gone further than my company would in these circumstances because Bogle has been offered alternative employment at another 'company' - we wouldn't go that far!
And if the employee decided to have a sly 'pop' at the company on Social Media, that would be (and indeed has been) seen as a disciplinary matter.
Granted, we wouldn't speak to the media about the employee but that's another obvious difference between the world of professional football and the 'real' world of employment.
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To be fair they’ve done nothing wrong, I’ve more sympathy with Williams as he was living the dream, don’t think he’s let us down effort wise but just not a L1 player.
Can’t see where Bogle is (assuming he wants to) going to resurrect his career
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They are taking the piss in that they could have moved somewhere that wants them but chose not too. Most of us would rather be where we are wanted and wouldn’t hold the club to ransom. But they also haven’t done anything wrong that we know of.
Lesson to learn is don’t sign players who ain’t good enough or if they are a gamble which they 100% were a year contract is enough. I know people get on the clubs back about short contracts but in certain situations it’s very understandable I think we all know that.
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Read the bogle thread in the rumour mill, few were thinking of risk then
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To say the club are to blame is shocking. The only thing the club is guilty of is instilling belief in a manager who in turn believed would get a tune out of the players in question. May I add that he didnt get a tune out of either of them before he up and left. Now for our fans..... there was barely a single one of you who gave them the time of day after a handful of performances. Fast forward to a hat full and every single one of us can agree that they are not good enough. Bogle is not only out of his depth but, he consistently brings sweet f all to the team and thinks nothing of showing no desire yet reomoving him from the first team is a disgrace. Why? Ive read a few comments on his performance at Accrington being OK.... Are you joking me or are you using this as a wind up? Im fully behind the club on their stance on this. If any of us went to work and didnt put effort in we would all be out on our arse and Omar Bogle falls bang into that. Its just easier to hide on a football pitch in a team who lose every game. But, because hes on a contract he is allowed to do what he wants it seems.
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Apparently Bogle was willing to go somewhere on deadline day but it all depended on another player leaving from the other club and it didn’t happen. Also, when Paul Hurst enquired about him, apparently he never heard about the enquiry.
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Apparently Bogle was willing to go somewhere on deadline day but it all depended on another player leaving from the other club and it didn’t happen. Also, when Paul Hurst enquired about him, apparently he never heard about the enquiry.
I reckon the 2nd part of that is complete BS
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Whatever the rights & wrongs of what's gone before, slagging your employer off on social media while on full pay for not doing your job is taking the piss, & for me is probably indicative of their attitudes in general, surely they've breached their contracts somehow.
Bogle has had chances & proved either lazy or just not good enough, Williams I think the latter, his effort on the pitch isn't in doubt for me.
As for whoever mentioned the comparison with how we felt about Joe Wright after his injury, well if you can't see how he doesn't compare to these two then I'm not gonna spell it out...
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If I was a player and knew that there was no future for me at a club I would want to get away to somewhere that I could play football on a regular basis and show my club what they were giving up while at the same time hopefully impressing other clubs.
I'm sure that my contracted club would be make up any difference in wages as well.
Eoin Doyle was costing Bradford City a fortune in wages when he was on loan at Swindon and scoring for fun. They recalled him in the January but he said he didn't want to be back there and went back to Swindon after about three games without a goal.
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Clearly there are some very different opinions on this and that’s fine, I’m not stubborn or thick enough not to recognise the points people have made about how the club could have handled this differently / better. But ultimately I stand by my view that Bogle and Williams are taking the piss out of the club a bit, and that’s what riles me. There are obviously a lot of nicer people than me out there that are more bothered than I can bring myself to be about the effect it’s having on two players that have done so little for us. Is it their fault that we gave them the contracts? Of course not. But Wellens was asking things of Bogle and he just wasn’t doing it - and that’s been there for all of us to see. He doesn’t make the runs he’s asked to, and he doesn’t look interested. So I get why Wellens is frustrated that the players and their agents have shown no desire to find a better environment elsewhere.
Could the club and Wellens have handled it better? Yes I’d have to admit they could have. But, irrespective of that, I’m more inclined to back them than this pair of time wasters.
The last time Bogle appeared for us, he had a 35 minute cameo at Accrington and looked as good as any layer we had on the pitch (admittedly, not a high hurdle). He was making runs, winning challenges, holding up the ball and bringing other players into the game.
Based on that appearance, singling him out as "taking the piss" or not performing is a strange one.
My interpretation of what happened is that Bogle has angered the club management by not taking the option of leaving, and he's been effectively disciplined for that. Which is fine, except that much of this has been played out in the public domain, which in my opinion is thoroughly unprofessional.
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To say the club are to blame is shocking. The only thing the club is guilty of is instilling belief in a manager who in turn believed would get a tune out of the players in question. May I add that he didnt get a tune out of either of them before he up and left. Now for our fans..... there was barely a single one of you who gave them the time of day after a handful of performances. Fast forward to a hat full and every single one of us can agree that they are not good enough. Bogle is not only out of his depth but, he consistently brings sweet f all to the team and thinks nothing of showing no desire yet reomoving him from the first team is a disgrace. Why? Ive read a few comments on his performance at Accrington being OK.... Are you joking me or are you using this as a wind up? Im fully behind the club on their stance on this. If any of us went to work and didnt put effort in we would all be out on our arse and Omar Bogle falls bang into that. Its just easier to hide on a football pitch in a team who lose every game. But, because hes on a contract he is allowed to do what he wants it seems.
people at the club are to blame as they signed the players, no one can slag Williams off for lack of effort as he rarely plays to see if he does or not,in saying that he has been poor the times he has playe, bogle as bst has said the last time he played was probably his best game for us, they should be training as normal and just not picked for matches with nothing in public said
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Just consider if this happened to you.
You go in to work as usual, and a new boss says I don't think you are up to it, you will have to work down in the shed, and have no interaction with colleagues.......not very nice is it, and a form of bullying!
The reason a player might choose to not move on does not have to be about money, or football for that matter.
Maybe his partner does not want to move, perhaps the kids have just settled at school.
Lots of non football reasons to consider.
Rovers are an employer of these players, and need to treat them fairly and with respect to the employment rules. Some folk seem to think that they can moved out against what they see as their best interests....again, put yourself in their shoes for a minute.
What if said manager said he'd give you a chance to prove yourself & said employee didn't do as asked of him, & tossed it off, sorry I'm with Wellens on this one.
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Like I say. Watch the last half hour of the Accrington match. Tell me Bogle is top of the list for not doing his job.
But that is irrelevant anyway. The problem is not the club deciding that Bogle has no future with us. It's the way they have publicly handled the issue.
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When he arrived I thought he started really well, holding up the ball, making runs & giving defenders problems. Since then he has turned into one of THE worst centre forwards I have seen, & I'm afraid his half hour at Accrington won't change that, he flattered to deceive.
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Like I say. Watch the last half hour of the Accrington match. Tell me Bogle is top of the list for not doing his job.
But that is irrelevant anyway. The problem is not the club deciding that Bogle has no future with us. It's the way they have publicly handled the issue.
Genuine question. how should this have been handled? If wellens chose not to play him, and make no public announcement of his feelings regarding the player, what then?
I’m at a loss as to how Wellens and or the club should/ could have managed this situation and player. It’s not like he would be suitable for an action plan is it.
“Play better football. Do as I ask etc etc”
Something has happened behind the scenes here since the last time Bogle played and it is not just down to how he plays (or not as the case may be) . Im convinced of this.
Wellens would have had to have lied to fans or created a complete fake story around this to cover the truth that he simply does not want him to play for drfc anymore. The rumour mill would have been rife.
Thankfully this is not a common occurrence, at least not at Rovers.
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To say the club are to blame is shocking. The only thing the club is guilty of is instilling belief in a manager who in turn believed would get a tune out of the players in question. May I add that he didnt get a tune out of either of them before he up and left. Now for our fans..... there was barely a single one of you who gave them the time of day after a handful of performances. Fast forward to a hat full and every single one of us can agree that they are not good enough. Bogle is not only out of his depth but, he consistently brings sweet f all to the team and thinks nothing of showing no desire yet reomoving him from the first team is a disgrace. Why? Ive read a few comments on his performance at Accrington being OK.... Are you joking me or are you using this as a wind up? Im fully behind the club on their stance on this. If any of us went to work and didnt put effort in we would all be out on our arse and Omar Bogle falls bang into that. Its just easier to hide on a football pitch in a team who lose every game. But, because hes on a contract he is allowed to do what he wants it seems.
people at the club are to blame as they signed the players, no one can slag Williams off for lack of effort as he rarely plays to see if he does or not,in saying that he has been poor the times he has playe, bogle as bst has said the last time he played was probably his best game for us, they should be training as normal and just not picked for matches with nothing in public said
they can't "train as normal" tho.
The manager doesn't think they are good enough in terms of effort, commitment or skill levels to be able to contribute to the sessions.
Their presence at training would have a negative impact on the coaching of the rest of the squad.
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Things must be bad with the situation we are in ,that we can afford to leave them to the side.
Tough situation ,the manager has been honest with them ,thinking they would be leaving and it hasn’t happened.
It could have been the ideal opportunity to prove him wrong ,but he has every right to not let them train with the squad, as do the players refusing moves away.
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Let’s just say I think there are some very rose tinted recollections of that half hour at Accrington Stanley. I watched the game and I watched what Bogle contributed when he came on. He did okay at best. Watch it back? No thanks.
It’s unlikely that in years to come the masses will all be reminiscing over the heady days of that half hour at Accrington Stanley where he won a header and played a diagonal ball that didn’t result in a chance being created.
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It has to be questioned how our due diligence on Bogle didn’t pick up on why he’s been binned from every club since Grimsby after a handful of games and very few goals
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The question of how should the club have resolved this has been asked.
There is a lot of speculation and very few known underlying facts. It seems fairly safe to assume that Bogle will have consulted the PFA on this. The CEO and the relevant administrative staff are not likely to have failed to look into the legal position and it is difficult to believe that Wellens consulted them in advance. I say this because they would surely have put out a more carefully worded statement if they had. OK I am speculating now, but Club Doncaster usually do things the right way. Neither side have brought this to a head, so there is an impasse.
Bogle probably ought not to have made this recent advertisement of his feelings in the matter and whilst I can understand that Wellens must have other reasons, unknown to us, for kicking this off in the way he did, it does not reflect well on him. (We know that as a player he was not always entirely self-restrained and his recent outbursts over the refereeing and how he would improve standards etc.,etc., are not reassuring.)
It is never too late to resolve a situation like this by getting the parties together and the major one, the club, is best placed to initiate this. Making peace without making public the facts but withdrawing adverse comment and expressing inappropriate conduct on both sides will either enable Bogle to depart with a degree of dignity or to restore him to the team with a resolution to play his part in a way that helps DRFC progress.
Otherwise this situation will continue to drag everybody down, players, fans and the club management.
If the club have already proposed such conciliation let them tell us.
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Let’s just say I think there are some very rose tinted recollections of that half hour at Accrington Stanley. I watched the game and I watched what Bogle contributed when he came on. He did okay at best. Watch it back? No thanks.
It’s unlikely that in years to come the masses will all be reminiscing over the heady days of that half hour at Accrington Stanley where he won a header and played a diagonal ball that didn’t result in a chance being created.
I've no axe to grind for Bogle, but some of the abuse is simply over the top. Let's put it this way. He contributed more in that half hour than our young Premier League loanee has contributed in four starts. Bogle is not a good player. I get that. But the arguments that he is "stealing a wage" and "taking the piss" are ridiculous. If the manager doesn't want to play him, I have no problem with that. But the way Wellens has handled it by criticsing Bogle's decision not to move is simply wrong. He should just have said that the move had fallen through and that Bogle didn't form part of his plans going forward.
I can only remember anytihng like that ever happening once before in recent years at the rovers, with a manager publicly airing discontent behind the scenes. Ironically, that involved Wellens - when Rob Jones as caretaker implied that Wellens was refusing to play (I think his precise words were "Richie has to decide if he wants to play.") Whatever was going on behind the scenes then should not have been aired, and neither should this.
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Good comparison that Bill that you used 18 year old player who just starting his career in men’s football. Did Bogle do as much work and contribution in that half an hour that Marquis would have done in 10 mins.
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What has Wellens actually said about Bogle publicly that has upset people so much? Can anybody point to direct quotations? I feel like I’m missing something here. It’s obviously seriously upset some on here, and I know BST is always keen to deal in indisputable facts. So can somebody point to the quotes that have been so out of order.
I’m not sure we’d know that Bogle has been supposedly ostracised from the main group if he hadn’t been sharing it himself on social media, where he seems to be rather inconsistent with his versions of the truth. We can debate the rights and wrongs of what it appears Wellens and the club are doing behind the scenes. But where’s the public evidence that’s upsetting people to this extent?
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This for a start.
https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/richie-wellens-on-omar-bogles-future-at-doncaster-rovers-after-he-rejected-chance-to-leave-3357363
That's a manager one-sidedly venting his frustration in public. The player has no opportunity to give his side of the story. It's simply unprofessional. It also painted Wellens into a corner. After going public like that, he was unable to pick Bogle, the only fit striker we had, for the match at Rotherham. So we started with two full backs up front.
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This for a start.
https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/richie-wellens-on-omar-bogles-future-at-doncaster-rovers-after-he-rejected-chance-to-leave-3357363
I just don’t see what’s so wrong with that, I really don’t. It’s not the most damning criticism I’ve ever seen and, in what is if anything in tactful terms, nor is it far at all from what we’ve watched.
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Cukur is worse and offered less and that takes some doing.
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This for a start.
https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/richie-wellens-on-omar-bogles-future-at-doncaster-rovers-after-he-rejected-chance-to-leave-3357363
That's a manager one-sidedly venting his frustration in public. The player has no opportunity to give his side of the story. It's simply unprofessional.
You’ve chosen the word venting. It doesn’t read like venting to me. And Bogle has put his versions forward through his own channels. That’s why this thread exists.
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This for a start.
https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/richie-wellens-on-omar-bogles-future-at-doncaster-rovers-after-he-rejected-chance-to-leave-3357363
That's a manager one-sidedly venting his frustration in public. The player has no opportunity to give his side of the story. It's simply unprofessional.
You’ve chosen the word venting. It doesn’t read like venting to me. And Bogle has put his versions forward through his own channels. That’s why this thread exists.
Have you ever heard a Rovers manager previously publicly criticise a player for not leaving when the manager wanted him to? And Bogle has, as far as I can see, posted a single word on Instagram. He hasn't had the chance and won't have the chance to be interviewed in the press to give his response to the criticisms of his ability and professional attitude that his manager made in that interview
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This for a start.
https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/richie-wellens-on-omar-bogles-future-at-doncaster-rovers-after-he-rejected-chance-to-leave-3357363
That's a manager one-sidedly venting his frustration in public. The player has no opportunity to give his side of the story. It's simply unprofessional.
You’ve chosen the word venting. It doesn’t read like venting to me. And Bogle has put his versions forward through his own channels. That’s why this thread exists.
Have you ever heard a Rovers manager previously publicly criticise a player for not leaving when the manager wanted him to? And Bogle has, as far as I can see, posted a single word on Instagram. He hasn't had the chance and won't have the chance to be interviewed in the press to give his response to the criticisms of his ability and professional attitude that his manager made in that interview
Bogle could make any statement through the press he wanted. His agent would be able to instigate that. You see it all the time. Instead he’s pinged messages around social media groups that he may or may not have known would end up in the public domain, and shared a silly picture that he absolutely knew would.
And I don’t think coaches and managers questioning players in the press is as uncommon as you think. The example of Wellens that you’ve chosen to highlight your point in incomparable to the criticism that Mourinho levelled at Luke Shaw and Dele Alli.
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Cukur is worse and offered less and that takes some doing.
He’s not done much at all but he is a teenager and prior to AFC Wimbledon he had not played a single minute of senior football. There is some mitigation for his performances to date, which granted haven’t been at all good.
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And the general consensus was that Mourinho was totally out of order.
We obviously have different approaches to management. The line I think the overwhelming majority of managers would have taken was to simply say that Bogle was not part of his plans and was available for transfer but that moves had fallen through. Questioning motives publicly is simply unprofessional.
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And the general consensus was that Mourinho was totally out of order.
We obviously have different approaches to management. The line I think the overwhelming majority of managers would have taken was to simply say that Bogle was not part of his plans and was available for transfer but that moves had fallen through. Questioning motives publicly is simply unprofessional.
This has utterly nothing at all to do with my own approach to management, which I expect is neither like your own nor that of Richie Wellens.
Honestly, I think you’re clutching at straws a little here having found that Wellens’ public comments on Bogle are nothing like as bad as you’d been swept up in allowing yourself to believe. I think you’ve allowed yourself to be swayed by what Bogle says is happening, but you’re too stubborn to admit that so you’ll continue to blow up quotes from what is essentially quite a tepid article.
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What Wellens is doing now has been done by many, many managers over the years. It isn’t really our style though, which is why it sticks in the throat a little. Saying that, nobody knows what happened on the training pitch or in the dressing room while he was in the first team squad. What is true is that nobody could have asked him to play like he has played albeit sporadically this season, so he is either ignoring instructions or doesn’t understand them.
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Save the cod psychology Jonathan. What you think I'm thinking is neither correct nor of any interest. I knew precisely what Wellens had said when I first raised it. I think it is unnecessary and unprofessional. You don't. That's a difference of opinion. There's no need to turn this into a personal assault.
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What concerns me is when Jason lokilo left he pointed to an article where lies had been told about him wanting more money. Then there was Andy Butler's acrimonius departure after everyone was promised a fresh start which lasted all of two seconds. Now there is this with Bogle and Williams. He also publicly dressed down Louis Jones and Aj Greaves on the touchline in pre season where he acts like a joke figure and at Harrogate some of their fans were laughing at how pathetic his style was. And this is just what we know about.
He is doing more harm than good and this situation is entirely of his own making through a lack of man management skills. So can everyone else be wrong or is Wellens the wrong one? It would be alright if he was winning games but nine games in he's got a 0% win ratio and the majority of the squad he has signed himself. But we've had some of our worst performances in living memory under his management already including two hammerings by Rotherham who are light years ahead of us on the pitch.
How long do the board give it until they swallow their pride and admit they got the appointment wrong and sack the clown?
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The Bogle story/ episode and the signing of the young loan striker all occurred because there was not sufficient funds to buy our own striker. Even the two we missed out on were loans. Richie was told he had to get rid of players to allow him to bring others in. He endeavoured to do that with only two players were he hoped that could be achieved. They haven’t gone. Funds were made available for a loan striker and we ended up with a free agent.
So this story and Wellens has split the support on this board much like when ODriscoll was manager. It will roll on through the the season. Even if and when Bogle leaves the below average striker whose scored 9 goals in 57 league one games over 4 seasons.
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Can anyone answer my question about DRFC/CD doing something to resolve this?
Normal Rules?
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What we have is an utterly poor situation which has been made worse in it's handling by both the players and management.
I can see the scenario from both sides, the one thing we now have is a proper stalemate that will only fester and get worse.
RW obviously feels that for the overall good of the club Bogle an Williams should of moved on in the transfer window after it was made clear to them they had no part in his future plans, the fact that they decided to sit on their contracts made the situation worse for RW as he was then restricted from bringing in the caliber of player he was looking for, this in itself will now live with the team for the rest of the year and probability beyond as that missing link could and should of been the key to making this lightweight squad tick.
This is what RW will ultimately be judged on and it's going to make him look really bad.
I would imagine most individuals in this poor situation would of reacted in a similar manner.
As for the the players, this situation will probably end both of their careers at a professional level when they both should have some years left in the game, admittedly at a lower level. Their market value is now through the floor.
i would imagine most individuals in this poor situation would not of reacted in a similar manner but extracted themselves now from this shit show and prolonged their careers.
And Williams is supposed to be an educated man!
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I can see both sides of the argument but how you can single out Bogle is beyond me! The whole team has been absolutely abysmal for about 8/9 months. There’s players getting game time who haven’t got the attributes to play football at this level, it’s blindingly obvious.
Lone striker is the hardest position on the pitch to play especially in a team that doesn’t create chances. I know we always have to have a scapegoat at the Rovers but it’s a bit pathetic all this and I don’t think the club has dealt with the situation very well.
If you look at my posts I’m fully supportive of the board and Wellens, just think we need to be a bit more calculated and not hang players out to dry in public, creating a witch-hunt like this.
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Wellens said he'd give Omar a chance. Since then he's played him for 85 minutes in League One total, chastised him for missing a penalty and frozen him from the squad.
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Wellens said he'd give Omar a chance. Since then he's played him for 85 minutes in League One total, chastised him for missing a penalty and frozen him from the squad.
he said he would give him a chance and he did throughout pre season and the first few games of the season.
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I’ll add that I’ve supported (and defended) Bogle as my posting history on this forum would show. But his latest approach of letting things out via social media group chats, and posting silly pictures, has started to show a disrespect and disregard for the club that pays his not inconsiderable wage. Added to which, the leaks coming from Bogle have led to some of the more naive posters imagining and inventing things that Wellens may have said and done. If we stuck to what’s officially in the public domain this situation wouldn’t be attracting the attention that it is. We’d simply be looking at an under performing player (or players) being left out of consideration for the squad having refused opportunities elsewhere.
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Since leaving Grimsby in 2017 his appearances are:
Wigan 14
Cardiff 21
Peterborough 9
Birmingham 15
Portsmouth 12
Den Haag 5
Charlton 17
That to me suggests one of two things, either theres a problem with his attitude or application, or his level is National League, League 2
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Has Bogel made the obligatory statement of “I want to stay snd fight for my place in the team”? As I can’t see it anywhere . Wellens will have expected Bogel to communicate that if he’s staying and wants to try and get back into Wellens plans. Instead we have this ridiculous state of a manager ostracising Bogel from the club and then going cap in hand to get another striker.
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Since leaving Grimsby in 2017 his appearances are:
Wigan 14
Cardiff 21
Peterborough 9
Birmingham 15
Portsmouth 12
Den Haag 5
Charlton 17
That to me suggests one of two things, either theres a problem with his attitude or application, or his level is National League, League 2
People will be getting bored of this now, but my previous post below remains a real eye opener. Now not every striker has to be a 20 goal man (Chris Brown was very highly effective for us) and Omar was brought in to solve a specific problem we had of ball retention up front, but all the same…
He has scored a total of 114 league goals in his career. 78 of these have been in non-league (and the majority of these, 65 at Conference North level). So around 70 per cent of all his league goals ever scored have been in non league and nearly 60 per cent of all his league goals ever scored have been in the semi pro game.
It gets even tougher though. He has only ever scored 17 league goals at League One level or above. That's 17 in 97 games at League One level or above, 1 in 5.7. That unscientific average would deliver 8 league goals if he played a 46 game season. Not so bad.
However, the most games he has managed in the same season for the same club outside of non league is 27, back in the 2016/17 season.
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And the general consensus was that Mourinho was totally out of order.
We obviously have different approaches to management. The line I think the overwhelming majority of managers would have taken was to simply say that Bogle was not part of his plans and was available for transfer but that moves had fallen through. Questioning motives publicly is simply unprofessional.
Which would have immediately prompted the question "Why did the moves fall through?"
To which RW would have to have lied or said "no comment" or words to that effect.
RW is a young manager still learning all aspects of his trade and was never known for holding back, but I find his openness and honesty refreshing. I don't think he's done or said anything out of order in this matter.
Just my opinion.
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Since leaving Grimsby in 2017 his appearances are:
Wigan 14
Cardiff 21
Peterborough 9
Birmingham 15
Portsmouth 12
Den Haag 5
Charlton 17
That to me suggests one of two things, either theres a problem with his attitude or application, or his level is National League, League 2
Every one of those clubs are bigger than us, which as a rule would usually suggest that he’s been competing against better strikers to get a starting role. I doubt in the form he’s in now he’s anything like a good league one forward but then when you’re having less than 40% possession and the game’s being played in your half it’s difficult to look any good up front. He’s not alone, I’d say looking at the recent teams we’ve put out, we’ve only got 3/4 players who are proven league 1 players and none of the midfielders have ever really scored any goals at any level.
Richie’s got a massive job on but I’m sure things will slowly get better. It’s a frustrating time for the fans, don’t know if it makes some feel better to vent all their anger at Omar, when he does finally leave it’ll be someone else.
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He had this record PRIOR to him signing.
The whole discussion here is not about Omar Bogles past (or even to some degree current performance levels) it's about the management of a situation.
I would love to see Wellens succeed at DRFC however we keep hearing of the Rovers recruitment/selection policies being the same over the past few years. And how players have to fit into the DNA of the club. If we are talking about commitment to training the community and the fan base then Andy Butler would still be a Rover. I suspect (with no evidence) he too was an outcast from the squad.
With Williams and Bogle - Wellens made it clear he wanted them gone (perhaps) his mouthing off in the media about the two players is what has caused other clubs to not make offers substantial enough for either to leave.
The circumstances lead to Wellens desperately going from one club to another looking for a forward. The Club (frustratingly) couldn't get choices A or B over the line - instead we have option C (who isn't really a centre forward) but more of a winger. We have 2 decent centre forwards at the club in Fej (injured) and Bogle (outcast) I belive the last centre forward to score a league goal for us was Richards?
So it seems strange to have not tried to build the confidence or relationship with Omar from Wellens point of view. As a manager/coach you are required to manage the players and or coach them to your style or philosophy of play. This is where I think Wellens has failed so far.
Now are Williams and or Bogle throughly unprofessional? Maybe. If so I think we'd have heard by now. But something is wrong at the club or within the squad. I can't remember when a player(s) were publicly frozen out from our teams.
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He had this record PRIOR to him signing.
The whole discussion here is not about Omar Bogles past (or even to some degree current performance levels) it's about the management of a situation.
I would love to see Wellens succeed at DRFC however we keep hearing of the Rovers recruitment/selection policies being the same over the past few years. And how players have to fit into the DNA of the club. If we are talking about commitment to training the community and the fan base then Andy Butler would still be a Rover. I suspect (with no evidence) he too was an outcast from the squad.
With Williams and Bogle - Wellens made it clear he wanted them gone (perhaps) his mouthing off in the media about the two players is what has caused other clubs to not make offers substantial enough for either to leave.
The circumstances lead to Wellens desperately going from one club to another looking for a forward. The Club (frustratingly) couldn't get choices A or B over the line - instead we have option C (who isn't really a centre forward) but more of a winger. We have 2 decent centre forwards at the club in Fej (injured) and Bogle (outcast) I belive the last centre forward to score a league goal for us was Richards?
So it seems strange to have not tried to build the confidence or relationship with Omar from Wellens point of view. As a manager/coach you are required to manage the players and or coach them to your style or philosophy of play. This is where I think Wellens has failed so far.
Now are Williams and or Bogle throughly unprofessional? Maybe. If so I think we'd have heard by now. But something is wrong at the club or within the squad. I can't remember when a player(s) were publicly frozen out from our teams.
That’s a fair point CR that I’d never really thought about, by adopting this stance you are devaluing your assets and making a satisfactory offer less likely.
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No player has been publicly frozen out of our team / training sessions. You’re relying on the word of Bogle (and his photo with Williams) for that.
Now I’m not saying they haven’t been frozen out, but those lambasting Wellens for his public conduct on this would be well served to think about where they got this information from.
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I wouldn't mind seeing the word Bogle frozen out of this forum, he has made it pretty clear he has no interest in being a Rovers player, so why should there be any interest in him?
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Omar's a tool & his agent is a woman beating scumbag.
Be a good day when they're both gone from our club.
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He had this record PRIOR to him signing.
The whole discussion here is not about Omar Bogles past (or even to some degree current performance levels) it's about the management of a situation.
I would love to see Wellens succeed at DRFC however we keep hearing of the Rovers recruitment/selection policies being the same over the past few years. And how players have to fit into the DNA of the club. If we are talking about commitment to training the community and the fan base then Andy Butler would still be a Rover. I suspect (with no evidence) he too was an outcast from the squad.
With Williams and Bogle - Wellens made it clear he wanted them gone (perhaps) his mouthing off in the media about the two players is what has caused other clubs to not make offers substantial enough for either to leave.
The circumstances lead to Wellens desperately going from one club to another looking for a forward. The Club (frustratingly) couldn't get choices A or B over the line - instead we have option C (who isn't really a centre forward) but more of a winger. We have 2 decent centre forwards at the club in Fej (injured) and Bogle (outcast) I belive the last centre forward to score a league goal for us was Richards?
So it seems strange to have not tried to build the confidence or relationship with Omar from Wellens point of view. As a manager/coach you are required to manage the players and or coach them to your style or philosophy of play. This is where I think Wellens has failed so far.
Now are Williams and or Bogle throughly unprofessional? Maybe. If so I think we'd have heard by now. But something is wrong at the club or within the squad. I can't remember when a player(s) were publicly frozen out from our teams.
Richie Wellens is the man responsible for getting the team to be successful on the field of play. He obviously saw something in Bogle that convinced him that he would not satisfy the requirements. On the strength of what we as supporters have seen from Bogle it's hard to disagree with Wellens' judgement on him.
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What have,
Theo Robinson, Adie Mike, Curtis Main, Steve Brooker, Alfie May & Waide Fairhurst got in common?
They all have a better scoring ratio for Rovers than Omar Bogle.
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I wouldn't mind seeing the word Bogle frozen out of this forum, he has made it pretty clear he has no interest in being a Rovers player, so why should there be any interest in him?
Sorry if I've missed him saying he isn't interested. All I see is him backing himself by turning down Bradford. He believes he can play at League One and has a contract to do so. the whole situation has been horrifically managed by Richie Wellens, and will probably put some other players off from joining the club while hes manager.
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No player has been publicly frozen out of our team / training sessions. You’re relying on the word of Bogle (and his photo with Williams) for that.
Now I’m not saying they haven’t been frozen out, but those lambasting Wellens for his public conduct on this would be well served to think about where they got this information from.
Of COURSE Bogle has been frozen out of the team. Read Wellens's interview. And then remember that 4 days later, with Bogle apparently fit, Wellens started the Rotherham match with Matt Smith at centre forward.
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I wonder how many of Wellens' detractors who were against his appointment in the first place are using this thread to claim righteousness in their opposition to his appointment?
Just wondering if the epidemic of political bad losers on the off-topic page has spread to the football section.
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The question has been asked. And yet no one has answered .
How should RW have dealt with the Bogle scenario other than how he has?
A contracted player who is still fit , but manager no longer wants him to play for drfc ( for whatever reason) The public reasons are that he does not play to the style that is expected. I suspect there are more reasons that will probably never be in the public domain.
So how should this have been portrayed to the fans/public. Because you can bet your bottom dollar there are many people, some on here that would be screaming from the rafters if wellens had kept the dirty laundry private and simply refused to play him. Speculation, gossip and rumour would have been rife. Damaged confidence in the clu and lies. And it would have all come out in the wash. Instead RW has been clear and transparent, and while some find that un necessary, unjustified and unsavoury; I applaud RW for taking this stance. Tell it how it is. He expected a reaction from the player, and at the moment that expectation has back fired, doing manager, player and club no good.
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I was happy with the appointment and I still hope Wellens turns it around, I wouldn’t get rid of him even if we were bottom at Christmas.
I’m just interested to know what has gone off, what’s he done that’s worse than any of the other players? We’ve won 2 in the last 20 and we’ve got players playing who are nowhere near league 1 level (in the main due to injuries), why is Omar any worse?
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Since leaving Grimsby in 2017 his appearances are:
Wigan 14
Cardiff 21
Peterborough 9
Birmingham 15
Portsmouth 12
Den Haag 5
Charlton 17
That to me suggests one of two things, either theres a problem with his attitude or application, or his level is National League, League 2
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_Bogle
Birmingham City (loan)
On 7 August 2018, Bogle joined Birmingham City on a season-long loan.[69] He made his debut as a second-half substitute in a 1–0 defeat away to Middlesbrough,[70] and made three league starts during August.[14] However, as Che Adams began to develop a productive partnership with Lukas Jutkiewicz – both had ten goals by mid-December[71] – Bogle became increasingly peripheral, losing his place on the bench to youngster Beryly Lubala.[72] According to manager Garry Monk, not having spent pre-season with Birmingham had made it difficult for Bogle; "he was just so eager to score a goal when he first came in and that probably distracted from the other work that needed to be done." He worked hard to regain a place on the bench,[73] and scored his first goal for the club on 26 December with a shot from distance to secure a 2–0 home win against Stoke City.[74]
the phrase "not the sharpest tool in the box comes to mind"
on a totaly different subject ..... if your manager asks you to do some runs at a certain angle and other things for the team and (a) you haven't the intelligence to do that or (b) WON'T (because you know better) then "Houston we have a problem"
at Grimsby Mr. Bogle had the team set up to play to his strengths along with John Lewis (who helped put him in the shop window)
on another totaly different subject ..
There is a conveyor belt of what CLH calls "hybrid footballers" out there --- they are well built strong on the ball and can run fast and sadly a lot are "not the sharpest tool in the box" and
don't understand tactics, things like anticipating where a ball will land etc ( a skill Mr. Lineker had) MOVEMENT ????
Now back on the subject of Bogle and his stay at clubs ...... as Keir Starmer says quite often in Parliament " we can see a pattern developing here" not E.P.T.A.S. (every picture tells a story) BUT E.M.T.A.S. Every Move Tells A Story
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No player has been publicly frozen out of our team / training sessions. You’re relying on the word of Bogle (and his photo with Williams) for that.
Now I’m not saying they haven’t been frozen out, but those lambasting Wellens for his public conduct on this would be well served to think about where they got this information from.
Of COURSE Bogle has been frozen out of the team. Read Wellens's interview. And then remember that 4 days later, with Bogle apparently fit, Wellens started the Rotherham match with Matt Smith at centre forward.
No. We started without anyone at centre forward. Bogle was left out as we were very clearly trying to move him on. He’s been left out of the squad because he’s not good enough, and Wellens has explained it clearly and tactfully, there’s been no public flogging. There’s only you that’s eulogising over his 30 minutes at Accrington Stanley desperately trying to justify your stance because you cannot bring yourself to admit you’ve got this one wrong.
Just admit that you’ve been misled by a bit of social media posturing, and what you thought had happened is not the case.
Give it up, you’re wrong. Try to live with that. We’re all wrong sometimes, even you! Welcome to the club.
But you won’t admit it. So go on, have the last word.
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I'm doing my level best to keep this polite and impersonal Jonathan, but it's not easy. You're a clever lad and usually a very good poster but I assume you're having a rough couple of days because your being rather childish here.
I haven't eulogised about his performance at Accrington. Grow up. I have simply said it was as competent a performance as any other player that night. Which makes it odd that (if we are simply talking football ability) he was left out of the 18 at Rotherham, while we started without a recognised striker. What had happened between the Accrington and Rotherham matches of course was that Bogle had turned down a transfer and Wellens had very publicly expressed his displeasure at that. That was my point about him being frozen out. You can by all means say he deserves it and it is a sensible decision, but to deny it has happened is simply obtuse.
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Pssst
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Wheater
Oldham Athletic
After originally turning Oldham down in an attempt to remain at Bolton, Wheater signed for local rivals Oldham Athletic on 1 August 2019 on a one-year deal with a second year option included, earning £4,000 per week.[27][28] He made his debut two days later, starting in a 1–0 defeat against Forest Green Rovers[29] and scored his first goal for Oldham on 24 August in a 2–1 away win against Cambridge United.[30] On 29 August Wheater was named the Oldham captain.[31] In January 2020 Bolton made a bid for Wheater, and owner Abdallah Lemsagam assumed Wheater would leave and join his former club, though Wheater decided to remain at Oldham.[32] He finished the season with 35 appearances and 4 goals and his extra year option was activated as he needed to have played 20 matches to get the extra year. On 21 September 2020 Wheater, and teammate Gary Woods, were removed from the first team and forced to train with the youth team as Oldham had been trying to force them out of their contracts.[33][34] On 12 March 2021, he was released by Oldham Athletic.[35]
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I'm doing my level best to keep this polite and impersonal Jonathan, but it's not easy. You're a clever lad and usually a very good poster but I assume you're having a rough couple of days because your being rather childish here.
I haven't eulogised about his performance at Accrington. Grow up. I have simply said it was as competent a performance as any other player that night. Which makes it odd that (if we are simply talking football ability) he was left out of the 18 at Rotherham, while we started without a recognised striker. What had happened between the Accrington and Rotherham matches of course was that Bogle had turned down a transfer and Wellens had very publicly expressed his displeasure at that. That was my point about him being frozen out. You can by all means say he deserves it and it is a sensible decision, but to deny it has happened is simply obtuse.
Thank you for doing your level best. You’re getting closer to admitting that what Wellens has actually said publicly is not that bad.
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I think it is reasonable to suggest that Bogle was left out of the squad for Rotherham because the game was just before the end of the August transfer window and there were moves afoot to find him a move to another club.
If he had got injured at Rotherham it would have scuppered any potential move.
I don’t think there is anything odd in him being left out at Rotherham.
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I wonder how many of Wellens' detractors who were against his appointment in the first place are using this thread to claim righteousness in their opposition to his appointment?
Just wondering if the epidemic of political bad losers on the off-topic page has spread to the football section.
It’s a shame it’s come to this. Billy’s all but lost his credibility on ‘Off Topic’, but instead of accepting that, his condescending arrogance has slithered over to all things red and white. This is the last thing we need at this testing time for DRFC.
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I hope this isn't the beginning of the "Bogle's Shocking Treatment" party.
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Could it be that Bogle is Diane Abbot’s love child?
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The cod heads seem to know him best. These comments from 18months ago.
“In truth ,Bogle has achieved very little since leaving Town. Wigan off loaded him super fast and Cardiff have loaned him out to whoever would have him. He's been lucky in the fact that his lower league goals made him look -on paper- better that he actually is.But the sad fact is the higher placed clubs soon found him out.We've all seen his petulance on field when some defender takes the ball off him or he makes other stupid mistakes.That attitude has been his undoing. Until he sorts his head out he's never going to fullfill the promiss that so many have thought him capable of.Give me Amond anyday.”
“When he was good, he was really good. At other times, he was a petulant twit who wasn’t a team player.
I’d rather us spend that sort of money on two team players”
Petulance, non team player. Out of his depth above lge 2. It all adds up to a stack up with Wellens who has recognised this from the off I suspect, and called him out. It’s no wonder he is not being played.
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On Ed Williams, when I interviewed Wellens on Friday he told me - though this didn’t make my edit - that Williams has been offered to every club in League One, League Two, Conference, Conference North, and Conference South, and only one Conference North side has shown an interest. That he’s not gone there suggests that Williams may’ve turned it down.
I feel for Williams a bit in that he’s currently suffering as a result of not fulfilling the promise that led to him being offered a two year contract. But as others have said in this thread there are ways and means to handle such a situation.
Sadly I can’t offer anything on Bogle as Richie wasn’t very forthcoming and I didn’t want to press him for fear of him not being up for the rest of the interview.
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Could it be that Bogle is Diane Abbot’s love child?
Another easy target, nice one.
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Maybe it was back to Kidderminster Harriers that was on offer.
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Could it be that Bogle is Diane Abbot’s love child?
Another easy target, nice one.
What on earth do you mean?
I think you might have made a wild, ignorant assumption there, Beast.
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I agree with you about Williams VR. But he surely has to go down as one of the worst signings we've ever made.
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A two year contract after weeks of trials. 3 managers never bothered to give him more than a couple of minutes. No major injuries as an excuse. He's the worst i can remember.
Love to know who spotted him. Whether his agent is Moores mate like a lot of the signings we made under him or if it was the recruitment guy. Either way Moore had weeks with him on trial and thought a 2 year contract was sound. Then proceeded to never pick him!
Whatever position were in now i think we're better off without Moore. That much becomes clearer every week
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I'm doing my level best to keep this polite and impersonal Jonathan, but it's not easy. You're a clever lad and usually a very good poster but I assume you're having a rough couple of days because your being rather childish here.
I haven't eulogised about his performance at Accrington. Grow up. I have simply said it was as competent a performance as any other player that night. Which makes it odd that (if we are simply talking football ability) he was left out of the 18 at Rotherham, while we started without a recognised striker. What had happened between the Accrington and Rotherham matches of course was that Bogle had turned down a transfer and Wellens had very publicly expressed his displeasure at that. That was my point about him being frozen out. You can by all means say he deserves it and it is a sensible decision, but to deny it has happened is simply obtuse.
You’re not doing very well with your efforts to keep this impersonal BST.
“Grow up”
“Your (sic) being rather childish...”
Sometimes you really need to hold up your hands and admit you’re wrong.
Give it a try, you might find it a cathartic experience.
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It's a two sided argument Pancho. Who cast the first stone?
BobG
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Bob, serious question, are you scared of BST?
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No BB. Should I be?
Cheers
BobG
Later. I get it. Of course, it depends upon your definition of 'insult' or 'dig' but to my eyes even though he is a friend, both the initial, and subsequent vast majority of such things have come from Jonathan. So having a pop at BST for making a comparatively trivial amount of them is both blinkered and betrays the prejudices of the person making the pop at Billy. Hence me asking 'Who cast the first stone?'
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No, you shouldn't, but I was just curious.
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Bob, serious question, are you scared of BST?
BB I think if you knew Bob and his history with DRFC from the Richardson days you would withdraw that comment pretty sharpish.
And if you dont - then I suggest you read up on it. Then you might not be asking bizarre questions like that.
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Wilts, I'm a Rovers fan, boy and man and do know a bit about Bob's and his dad's history with DRFC during the Richardson period.
I stand by the question though, because then was then, and now is now.
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I'm doing my level best to keep this polite and impersonal Jonathan, but it's not easy. You're a clever lad and usually a very good poster but I assume you're having a rough couple of days because your being rather childish here.
I haven't eulogised about his performance at Accrington. Grow up. I have simply said it was as competent a performance as any other player that night. Which makes it odd that (if we are simply talking football ability) he was left out of the 18 at Rotherham, while we started without a recognised striker. What had happened between the Accrington and Rotherham matches of course was that Bogle had turned down a transfer and Wellens had very publicly expressed his displeasure at that. That was my point about him being frozen out. You can by all means say he deserves it and it is a sensible decision, but to deny it has happened is simply obtuse.
You’re not doing very well with your efforts to keep this impersonal BST.
“Grow up”
“Your (sic) being rather childish...”
Sometimes you really need to hold up your hands and admit you’re wrong.
Give it a try, you might find it a cathartic experience.
Thanks for the advice Pancho.
The "childish" comment was a direct response to someone saying I was "eulogising" Bogle's performance at Accrington and telling me I was "desperately trying to justify your stance because you cannot bring yourself to admit you’ve got this one wrong."
I have a policy in here of trying never to start a personal assault. I'm the first to admit that I don't always live up to that standard. But I absolutely didn't start this one. And if someone does act childishly in starting one like this, I reserve the right to reply appropriately. It's instructive that you were fine with the poster who started the personal angle. Your call.
I'm not admitting I'm wrong on this because I don't believe I am. I think the club has handled this poorly and I've seen nothing to change my mind. Other people are perfectly at liberty to disagree and if they do, that's fine. I wouldn't tell them it's a character fault that led to them disagreeing with me.
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You started it.
Jesus.
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Look at the context Jonathan. I'm being criticised for having a go at you. By someone who seems oblivious to the fact that it was in response to you having a go at me. Simple as that.
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Look at the context Jonathan. I'm being criticised for having a go at you. By someone who seems oblivious to the fact that it was in response to you having a go at me. Simple as that.
In an effort to draw this to a close, I will concede that I do genuinely admire your dogged determination and persistence.
Had I been asked to provide direct quotations to substantiate a thoroughly unprofessional public humiliation, and found an article in which the accused described said performances as “not that great” and said “we’ll see how it goes,” then I’d probably have been inclined to admit that it wasn’t actually as bad as I’d thought. But not you. You’ll carry on down the same line, sensationalising what’s in front of you and point blank refusing to admit in any way that it might not actually be quite as you’d thought. Whilst certainly not an approach I’d want to take myself, I do have some begrudging admiration for it. So we’ll draw a line there.
Apologies if you feel I started it. I know that’s hugely significant.
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Shame on you Billy.
The playground bully goes to sleep happy again that he ‘sits highest on the hill of debate’.
But only in your eyes.
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Jonathan. As I've said several times, we have a difference of opinion. You think Bogle is taking the piss and stealing a wage. And you might well be right for all I know. But my opinion is (much as I'd prefer him to go) that he is exercising his contractual rights and has been no worse than several other players, and that the club hasn't handled the issue well.
People are allowed to have different opinions without resorting to personal abuse. Although increasingly not in here it seems.
And that is my very last word on this.
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I've not seen it posted anywhere in this thread but could the Bogle situation also involve performance (sic) and attendance bonuses.
It could well be that the management have decided that this situation doesn't warrant throwing good money after bad as to a reason for the none appearance of this player.
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Whatever the situation and whomever is at fault, as part of it is being played out in the open it requires resolving for the benefit of the club the players and the fans.
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There's a lot of supposition regarding Bogle. If I was him reading this thread it certainly would be demotivating.
Moore saw something, the board backed him and gave him a contract. Was that the right thing to do.?? Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Bringing a player in is a gamble. They are watched playing in different environments to ours. We have had a number of forwards who didn't work...transfers are a gamble.
However, the lad has made it to the professional ranks. He's one of our own. The vitriol and negativity is mind blowing. There's not many vocations where you have people outside your company passing judgement
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Don't like players airing the dirty laundry in public and would imagine they're in breach of some kind of social media policy but without wanting to be in the minority here, there's definitely a few managers spoken badly about in autobiographies and podcasts like Undr The Cosh that have made players train away from the main group.
The way in which the club has dealt with this has been shocking. It has hung the players out to dry. You cannot complain about players going public on "dirty washing" when the club has essentially been scapegoating them in public for a month. As Albie says, in any other industry, this would be a case of constructive dismissal
100% this.
So if I have a boss who doesn't like me or thinks im not up to the job then the boss can tell me to stay at home and rot ?
Feels like constructive to me
I'm not sure either are good enough though in reality
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Don't like players airing the dirty laundry in public and would imagine they're in breach of some kind of social media policy but without wanting to be in the minority here, there's definitely a few managers spoken badly about in autobiographies and podcasts like Undr The Cosh that have made players train away from the main group.
The way in which the club has dealt with this has been shocking. It has hung the players out to dry. You cannot complain about players going public on "dirty washing" when the club has essentially been scapegoating them in public for a month. As Albie says, in any other industry, this would be a case of constructive dismissal
100% this.
So if I have a boss who doesn't like me or thinks im not up to the job then the boss can tell me to stay at home and rot ?
Feels like constructive to me
I'm not sure either are good enough though in reality
I’m not sure you can compare football players and contracts with other walks of life. If I underperformed at work, I would be taken to task with performance reviews etc, action plans and ultimately there are processes to sack people if attempts to address shortcomings fail.
Pro football creates an environment where underperforming is essentially tolerated. I don’t believe it’s written into contracts if a player fails to fulfil their ability. I suppose it’s because footballers, in general, play ball so to speak. I don’t recall too Many occasions, if any where we have had this at rovers before.
I’m sure most of us have experienced people who turn up to work and take the money by doing the bare minimum. Perhaps Bogle fits this mould. His contract protects him from being sacked without recompense. That’s why footballers live in the worlds they do. They make themselves almost un touchable. Bogle has to live with himself though. His reputation as this goes on will become more tarnished. He still takes the pay packet though. Who are the mugs here?
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Apparently Bogle was willing to go somewhere on deadline day but it all depended on another player leaving from the other club and it didn’t happen. Also, when Paul Hurst enquired about him, apparently he never heard about the enquiry.
Paul Hurst said in a interview on Radio Humberside that he had spoke to his agent early in the window and Bogle before the window closed he did not want to Grimsby.
Also Gavin said today in Radio Sheffield interview that There had been offers for Bogle but he rejected them. So are we saying the club is not telling the truth.
Whether he wants to go is his choice as a contracted player.
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I'm doing my level best to keep this polite and impersonal Jonathan, but it's not easy. You're a clever lad and usually a very good poster but I assume you're having a rough couple of days because your being rather childish here.
I haven't eulogised about his performance at Accrington. Grow up. I have simply said it was as competent a performance as any other player that night. Which makes it odd that (if we are simply talking football ability) he was left out of the 18 at Rotherham, while we started without a recognised striker. What had happened between the Accrington and Rotherham matches of course was that Bogle had turned down a transfer and Wellens had very publicly expressed his displeasure at that. That was my point about him being frozen out. You can by all means say he deserves it and it is a sensible decision, but to deny it has happened is simply obtuse.
You’re not doing very well with your efforts to keep this impersonal BST.
“Grow up”
“Your (sic) being rather childish...”
Sometimes you really need to hold up your hands and admit you’re wrong.
Give it a try, you might find it a cathartic experience.
Thanks for the advice Pancho.
The "childish" comment was a direct response to someone saying I was "eulogising" Bogle's performance at Accrington and telling me I was "desperately trying to justify your stance because you cannot bring yourself to admit you’ve got this one wrong."
I have a policy in here of trying never to start a personal assault. I'm the first to admit that I don't always live up to that standard. But I absolutely didn't start this one. And if someone does act childishly in starting one like this, I reserve the right to reply appropriately. It's instructive that you were fine with the poster who started the personal angle. Your call.
I'm not admitting I'm wrong on this because I don't believe I am. I think the club has handled this poorly and I've seen nothing to change my mind. Other people are perfectly at liberty to disagree and if they do, that's fine. I wouldn't tell them it's a character fault that led to them disagreeing with me.
Ya just another wiki/google A-Hole trying once again to crush argument that rally’s against your opinion….BST just face it, we are all A-holes on here…and your the itch!
Ner,ner,muckybear tell ya mam to wash ya hair ! ( that’s how all your topics end up sounding) …..just saying!
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Whatever the situation and whomever is at fault, as part of it is being played out in the open it requires resolving for the benefit of the club the players and the fans.
I hadn't realised Jonathan and BST were so well known by the squad
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Maybe it was back to Kidderminster Harriers that was on offer.
Richie didn't say, but yes, that was the logic jump I made when he said one Conference North side.
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I've got a bit more sympathy for Williams. He didn't put that cringeworthy post on & for all we know he may have told him to take it off once he saw it. He's never been good enough but he's always put the effort in. I don't mind that.
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I agree with that Monkcaster. Moore signed him, then never played him. Bogle is a different kettle of fish. Practically zero effort when selected, apart from his first couple of games. My wife would put more effort into playing than he does and with his apparent mindset, he’s a complete waste of a shirt. Wouldn’t be at all surprised if he runs his contract down, then retires from football. If he’s as half hearted in training, there’s no way he would ever get selected. Another of Moore’s substandard signings!
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I agree with that Monkcaster. Moore signed him, then never played him. Bogle is a different kettle of fish. Practically zero effort when selected, apart from his first couple of games. My wife would put more effort into playing than he does and with his apparent mindset, he’s a complete waste of a shirt. Wouldn’t be at all surprised if he runs his contract down, then retires from football. If he’s as half hearted in training, there’s no way he would ever get selected. Another of Moore’s substandard signings!
Mate of mine is a Charlton fan and he did tell me we signed a dud. I gave him the benefit of the doubt initially but my god, the man really can't be arsed. Fault does lie with Moore for me, too.
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Moore’s certainly not made any attempt to take him to Wednesday!
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Monkcaster – My Charlton mate also was in hysterics when we signed Bogle. Think I defended at the time as I knew zero about him – went something along the lines of 'lets see what magic Darren can get out of him now he's coming to the KM...'
Oh dear how wrong could I have been.
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Monkcaster – My Charlton mate also was in hysterics when we signed Bogle. Think I defended at the time as I knew zero about him – went something along the lines of 'lets see what magic Darren can get out of him now he's coming to the KM...'
Oh dear how wrong could I have been.
You and me both, sir!
Alarm bells should have been ringing when they paid him up after only 5 months.
I usually try to make light of the situation but when he's sat picking up 1500-2000 a week to take the piss on Instagram as he has done, it cuts deep.
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Wilts, I'm a Rovers fan, boy and man and do know a bit about Bob's and his dad's history with DRFC during the Richardson period.
I stand by the question though, because then was then, and now is now.
Thanks BB, I thought you probably would but maybe had forgotten amidst your vendetta against individual posters. I can assure you he hasn't changed.
Not that its of any interest or any more relevant that what other poster shave written but my view of the Bogle situation is:
- the sooner we get rid of Bogle the better it will be for both him and club, its just not worked out
- a managers job in any organisation is to manage people and get the best out of them for the organisation. So far in his short career Wellens has 4 jobs at 4 different clubs and appears to have fallen out with someone at all of them. I think he might have to rethink his approach to dealing with people or it might be a much shorter career than he would like.
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Give your head a wobble Wilts. If one of the 'moaners' on this forum had said exactly what BST said Bob G would have been one of the first to condemn them.
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Apparently Bogle was willing to go somewhere on deadline day but it all depended on another player leaving from the other club and it didn’t happen. Also, when Paul Hurst enquired about him, apparently he never heard about the enquiry.
Paul Hurst said in a interview on Radio Humberside that he had spoke to his agent early in the window and Bogle before the window closed he did not want to Grimsby.
Also Gavin said today in Radio Sheffield interview that There had been offers for Bogle but he rejected them. So are we saying the club is not telling the truth.
Whether he wants to go is his choice as a contracted player.
I’m not saying the club are lying because I don’t think they are, just posted what I’ve seen and heard.
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It’s Richie Wellens job to get the best from what he has to work with. He has signed a few players now it’s time for players to create partnerships and work together for the team.
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Anyone else Sammy your scouting would suggest that Richie should be looking at ahead of the January window?
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I know as much as everybody else, there are plenty of free agents to be picked at.
I think we need some experience in there we have plenty of youth, the balance needs to be right.
I would move Olowu to left back with Anderson coming back in. I would give Ravenhill a chance in the ball winning role.
With the players we have, we could maybe go with wing backs, and have that extra midfielder in there. The support coming from the wingers, and maybe Rowe making late runs just behind.
The problem with that is the fitness of the player up front and those supporting.
Bostock with the ability he has needs to play, get people around him to win the ball.
We need to get a settled side out and stick with it, get some consistency going.
We are not as bad as the table suggests. We just need a team prepared to work hard for each other.
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I think that the best thing is to look to the future. That doesn't seem to include Omar Bogle so rather than arguments about who is right or wrong let us just move on. Concentrate on what we can do to improve our position.
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Moore’s certainly not made any attempt to take him to Wednesday!
That’s a very interesting and valid point. It does make you wonder doesn’t it. If Moore thought he was so good then why wouldn’t he re recruit him.
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I know as much as everybody else, there are plenty of free agents to be picked at.
I think we need some experience in there we have plenty of youth, the balance needs to be right.
I would move Olowu to left back with Anderson coming back in. I would give Ravenhill a chance in the ball winning role.
With the players we have, we could maybe go with wing backs, and have that extra midfielder in there. The support coming from the wingers, and maybe Rowe making late runs just behind.
The problem with that is the fitness of the player up front and those supporting.
Bostock with the ability he has needs to play, get people around him to win the ball.
We need to get a settled side out and stick with it, get some consistency going.
We are not as bad as the table suggests. We just need a team prepared to work hard for each other.
Dont know why so many ppl have mentioned putting Olowu LB. he’s right footed and has never played there in his life, he can play RB but he’s predominantly a CB. As for Rowe in midfield, yes he may be a bit more physical than the other midfielders we have but still don’t think he’s the kind of player we need in there so would keep him at LB, don’t need him as one of the 2 8s because we have Galbraith and Close.
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Moore’s certainly not made any attempt to take him to Wednesday!
That’s a very interesting and valid point. It does make you wonder doesn’t it. If Moore thought he was so good then why wouldn’t he re recruit him.
Sheffield Wednesday although are in the same division as us, are on a completely different level to us as a club, they’ve got Callum Paterson and then Lee Gregory and Saido Berahino both Sheffield lads with decent pedigree, they mainly shop at different shops. Why would he come in for Bogle?
I know the club has got dubious ownership but they still get twenty odd thousand every week. When people call Moore for leaving it’s just unrealistic, going from Rovers to Wednesday is a massive promotion in his profession, he’s working with players like Hutchinson, Bannam and Gregory he doesn’t need to even look at players like Omar Bogle, that’s the whole point!
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Moore’s certainly not made any attempt to take him to Wednesday!
That’s a very interesting and valid point. It does make you wonder doesn’t it. If Moore thought he was so good then why wouldn’t he re recruit him.
Do you think he would have brought Bogle in to us if he had the money for better strikers. He has now they may get the same result but their pedigree is a lot better. Same as Bostock compared with Banan different circles now.
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Moore’s certainly not made any attempt to take him to Wednesday!
That’s a very interesting and valid point. It does make you wonder doesn’t it. If Moore thought he was so good then why wouldn’t he re recruit him.
Do you think he would have brought Bogle in to us if he had the money for better strikers. He has now they may get the same result but their pedigree is a lot better. Same as Bostock compared with Banan different circles now.
Only DM knows why he brought OB to DRFC. The rest of us cannot fathom why on earth he signed him!!
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I know as much as everybody else, there are plenty of free agents to be picked at.
I think we need some experience in there we have plenty of youth, the balance needs to be right.
I would move Olowu to left back with Anderson coming back in. I would give Ravenhill a chance in the ball winning role.
With the players we have, we could maybe go with wing backs, and have that extra midfielder in there. The support coming from the wingers, and maybe Rowe making late runs just behind.
The problem with that is the fitness of the player up front and those supporting.
Bostock with the ability he has needs to play, get people around him to win the ball.
We need to get a settled side out and stick with it, get some consistency going.
We are not as bad as the table suggests. We just need a team prepared to work hard for each other.
Dont know why so many ppl have mentioned putting Olowu LB. he’s right footed and has never played there in his life, he can play RB but he’s predominantly a CB. As for Rowe in midfield, yes he may be a bit more physical than the other midfielders we have but still don’t think he’s the kind of player we need in there so would keep him at LB, don’t need him as one of the 2 8s because we have Galbraith and Close.
I don’t think he influences the game from left back though, Bailey. Like you say we have a few options in there, I just think Rowe gives you that extra experience in there,and will make the runs into the box.
We need players making those runs to create spaces and goals.
On Olowu for some reason I thought he had played there, probably someone on here had said it before.
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Moore’s certainly not made any attempt to take him to Wednesday!
That’s a very interesting and valid point. It does make you wonder doesn’t it. If Moore thought he was so good then why wouldn’t he re recruit him.
Do you think he would have brought Bogle in to us if he had the money for better strikers. He has now they may get the same result but their pedigree is a lot better. Same as Bostock compared with Banan different circles now.
Only DM knows why he brought OB to DRFC. The rest of us cannot fathom why on earth he signed him!!
I think most people were quite happy when we signed him. Glenn Hoddle signed Bobby Zamora in 2003, he made 18 appearances, scoring one goal in the League Cup. It’s easy to be a football genius with hindsight!
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I know as much as everybody else, there are plenty of free agents to be picked at.
I think we need some experience in there we have plenty of youth, the balance needs to be right.
I would move Olowu to left back with Anderson coming back in. I would give Ravenhill a chance in the ball winning role.
With the players we have, we could maybe go with wing backs, and have that extra midfielder in there. The support coming from the wingers, and maybe Rowe making late runs just behind.
The problem with that is the fitness of the player up front and those supporting.
Bostock with the ability he has needs to play, get people around him to win the ball.
We need to get a settled side out and stick with it, get some consistency going.
We are not as bad as the table suggests. We just need a team prepared to work hard for each other.
Dont know why so many ppl have mentioned putting Olowu LB. he’s right footed and has never played there in his life, he can play RB but he’s predominantly a CB. As for Rowe in midfield, yes he may be a bit more physical than the other midfielders we have but still don’t think he’s the kind of player we need in there so would keep him at LB, don’t need him as one of the 2 8s because we have Galbraith and Close.
I don’t think he influences the game from left back though, Bailey. Like you say we have a few options in there, I just think Rowe gives you that extra experience in there,and will make the runs into the box.
We need players making those runs to create spaces and goals.
On Olowu for some reason I thought he had played there, probably someone on here had said it before.
Did he not score from left back last week?
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Moore’s certainly not made any attempt to take him to Wednesday!
That’s a very interesting and valid point. It does make you wonder doesn’t it. If Moore thought he was so good then why wouldn’t he re recruit him.
Do you think he would have brought Bogle in to us if he had the money for better strikers. He has now they may get the same result but their pedigree is a lot better. Same as Bostock compared with Banan different circles now.
Only DM knows why he brought OB to DRFC. The rest of us cannot fathom why on earth he signed him!!
I think most people were quite happy when we signed him. Glenn Hoddle signed Bobby Zamora in 2003, he made 18 appearances, scoring one goal in the League Cup. It’s easy to be a football genius with hindsight!
It's not hindsight when his previous goal scoring record was there for all to see.
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Indeed.all of the warning signs were there.loan After loan after loan, with little or no return.
Jobs for the boys I reckon.
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A lot of respected managers have made the same mistake haven’t they. Maybe you have missed your calling?
Every transfer is a gamble, you’ve got to make a decision on who is available and who fits into your budget. Getting a good striker is like winning the lottery, I’ve been watching the Rovers for 30 years and seen very few who’ve consistently scored. Strikers who score are even rarer now as most teams only play up with one and they’re they’re outnumbered 2/3 to 1 by the centre halves taking all the hits. Midfielders and wingers need to contribute more goals now.
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Indeed.all of the warning signs were there.loan Amaterasu loan after loan, with little or no return.
Jobs for the boys I reckon.
They were both probably singing from the same hymn sheet. ;)
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I know as much as everybody else, there are plenty of free agents to be picked at.
I think we need some experience in there we have plenty of youth, the balance needs to be right.
I would move Olowu to left back with Anderson coming back in. I would give Ravenhill a chance in the ball winning role.
With the players we have, we could maybe go with wing backs, and have that extra midfielder in there. The support coming from the wingers, and maybe Rowe making late runs just behind.
The problem with that is the fitness of the player up front and those supporting.
Bostock with the ability he has needs to play, get people around him to win the ball.
We need to get a settled side out and stick with it, get some consistency going.
We are not as bad as the table suggests. We just need a team prepared to work hard for each other.
Dont know why so many ppl have mentioned putting Olowu LB. he’s right footed and has never played there in his life, he can play RB but he’s predominantly a CB. As for Rowe in midfield, yes he may be a bit more physical than the other midfielders we have but still don’t think he’s the kind of player we need in there so would keep him at LB, don’t need him as one of the 2 8s because we have Galbraith and Close.
I don’t think he influences the game from left back though, Bailey. Like you say we have a few options in there, I just think Rowe gives you that extra experience in there,and will make the runs into the box.
We need players making those runs to create spaces and goals.
On Olowu for some reason I thought he had played there, probably someone on here had said it before.
Did he not score from left back last week?
Yes he did Gaz, it’s a fair point, I just see him contributing more from a central role.
The manager see’s him as the best fit for that role at the minute and we don’t have many alternatives at the minute at left back.
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My take on Bogle is that RW has told him what he needs to do to get in his team/syle of play, and after repeatedly telling him to comply he has failed. At Accrington RW apparently gave Bogle a rollicking at half time and he upped his game for the last 30 mins. Consequently, i think RW ran out of patience with Bogle and froze him out because he could not trust him to do the job required or Bogle didn't like being told what to do.
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My take on Bogle is that RW has told him what he needs to do to get in his team/syle of play, and after repeatedly telling him to comply he has failed. At Accrington RW apparently gave Bogle a rollicking at half time and he upped his game for the last 30 mins. Consequently, i think RW ran out of patience with Bogle and froze him out because he could not trust him to do the job required or Bogle didn't like being told what to do.
A bollocking at half time would have been very harsh on Bogle given that he didn’t come on to the pitch until the 56th minute.
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My take on Bogle is that RW has told him what he needs to do to get in his team/syle of play, and after repeatedly telling him to comply he has failed. At Accrington RW apparently gave Bogle a rollicking at half time and he upped his game for the last 30 mins. Consequently, i think RW ran out of patience with Bogle and froze him out because he could not trust him to do the job required or Bogle didn't like being told what to do.
Yep. Bogle was so underperforming in the first half at Accrington that he might as well not have been on the pitch.
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Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story!
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Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story!
Thank you for your inside story on this debate, it has informed us all.
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Bogle and Williams should be played in Cup games for sure. If only for the sake of putting them in the shop window for January.
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Bogle and Williams should be played in Cup games for sure. If only for the sake of putting them in the shop window for January.
Give over.
The only shop window they'd show up well in would be 'Grace Brothers'.
Isn't it time to drop Bogle from forum debate now?
You'll never see him in a Rovers shirt of any description again EVER.
Richie Wellens is the manager & he doesn't want him (or Williams) at the club. They are not in his plans & therefore are a drain on financial resources at the club until their contracts run their course. Mis managed or not, those are the facts deal with it!
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The best way for the club to have them not a financial drain is IF they can attract another club in January. Having other clubs at least be able to scout them would be an opportunity. This is my viewpoint DEAL WITH IT.
(Upper case letters for dramatic effect only - but this is a Rovers forum & one gritty win over Morcambe shouldn't paint over the cracks)
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I went home on Saturday and enjoyed my hour’s drive back. I even had a Morecombe supporter in the back who wasn’t quite as happy to say the least.
It wasn’t the greatest of games but there were more positives than negatives for me. Our first win and a clean sheet keeping us in touch.
Players getting more game time together. Players getting more minutes on the pitch and others nearer to making comebacks to the first team or on the bench.
It doesn’t mean that all of our problems are over by any means but it is possibly the first step to getting some much needed confidence into the squad. There’s nothing to stop you enjoying the moment but still being concerned about our need to improve.
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There’s nothing to stop you enjoying the moment but still being concerned about our need to improve.
This. Perhaps we can move away from the "if you do/don't criticise, you're my enemy" atmosphere the exchanges in here would be a bit healthier. Concentrate on the content of what people say instead of ham fistedly trying to read intentions?
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Brexit voters are ill educated, ill informed bigoted racists. Enablers of fascism, unwitting tools of Putin propaganda, willing to bring about mass unemployment and threat BobG's oft predicted outbreak of 3 rd World War. But don't ham fistedly mis read anyone's intention
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Brexit voters are ill educated, ill informed bigoted racists. Enablers of fascism, unwitting tools of Putin propaganda, willing to bring about mass unemployment and threat BobG's oft predicted outbreak of 3 rd World War. But don't ham fistedly mis read anyone's intention
Not on here as well for all that is holy.
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There’s nothing to stop you enjoying the moment but still being concerned about our need to improve.
This. Perhaps we can move away from the "if you do/don't criticise, you're my enemy" atmosphere the exchanges in here would be a bit healthier. Concentrate on the content of what people say instead of ham fistedly trying to read intentions?
Conversely, there is nothing to stop you being concerned about our need to improve but wanting to enjoy the moment when we win.
I think the one thing that literally everyone would agree on is that we still need to improve. But there’s more than enough negativity that’s been circulating (and will again) to mean that it feels a little deflating for it to be pushed to the fore in the immediate aftermath of a desperately needed win. It’s not that anyone is ignorant of our flaws, it’s just that there are people out there that would like to enjoy an all too rare moment of happiness without it instantly being pulled back down.
Conclusion - people are different. And yeah it’s probably got a bit childish on either side. But very few of us (certainly not me) can claim that we get that right all of the time.
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Conversely, there is nothing to stop you being concerned about our need to improve but wanting to enjoy the moment when we win.
I'd be surprised if most of us didn't feel that way. We just all have different emphasis. That should be accepted and respected.
My deep concerns about the overall quality and ability of this squad are not assuaged by someone emphasising how much they enjoyed us winning on Saturday. So I don't understand why someone's enjoyment of the win is affected by other people's concerns over the bigger picture.
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Conversely, there is nothing to stop you being concerned about our need to improve but wanting to enjoy the moment when we win.
I'd be surprised if most of us didn't feel that way. We just all have different emphasis. That should be accepted and respected.
My deep concerns about the overall quality and ability of this squad are not assuaged by someone posting how much they enjoyed us winning on Saturday. So I don't understand why someone's enjoyment of the win is affected by other people's concerns over the bigger picture.
If you genuinely don’t understand that in the context of how some of these ‘conversations’ have gone, then you understand very little about our current situation or about what our club means to us. I’m surprised you didn’t create a pie chart to show the difference between a ‘win’ and ‘the bigger picture’ to cement your perplexity of such illogical thinking.
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Conversely, there is nothing to stop you being concerned about our need to improve but wanting to enjoy the moment when we win.
I'd be surprised if most of us didn't feel that way. We just all have different emphasis. That should be accepted and respected.
My deep concerns about the overall quality and ability of this squad are not assuaged by someone emphasising how much they enjoyed us winning on Saturday. So I don't understand why someone's enjoyment of the win is affected by other people's concerns over the bigger picture.
It certainly couldn’t be any clearer that you like to push your concerns to the fore.
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Conversely, there is nothing to stop you being concerned about our need to improve but wanting to enjoy the moment when we win.
I'd be surprised if most of us didn't feel that way. We just all have different emphasis. That should be accepted and respected.
My deep concerns about the overall quality and ability of this squad are not assuaged by someone emphasising how much they enjoyed us winning on Saturday. So I don't understand why someone's enjoyment of the win is affected by other people's concerns over the bigger picture.
It certainly couldn’t be any clearer that you like to push your concerns to the fore.
I haven't got the first idea what you are talking about. I've actually said very little about the performance of the side this year, precisely because I know the side is bedding in.
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Anyway ……….. anymore Omar Bogle news ?????
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Anyway ……….. anymore Omar Bogle news ?????
I keep thinking I've clicked on the wrong topic too, Dude
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Anyway ……….. anymore Omar Bogle news ?????
Who????