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Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Herbert Anchovy on September 25, 2021, 05:33:17 pm

Title: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: Herbert Anchovy on September 25, 2021, 05:33:17 pm
For those of you who weren’t there today, that was (in my opinion) the best we’ve played all season, particularly in the second half.

The way in which we lost the game, so late on, was heartbreaking to say the least. I couldn’t see whether the penalties were legitimate or not from where I was but you always have to give the Ref the benefit of the doubt I suppose.
The players at the end looked completely demoralised; they all clearly care. They also clearly have the talent as shown today. It’s just going to take time.

Be absolutely clear though, if we’d have won today it would have been absolutely deserved. My Plymouth supporting mates agree that both sides did enough to win. But when the football Gods aren’t smiling at you…

I’m not going to get involved in squabbles about our performances as I did last week. I’m sure that plenty of people will have a lot to say and losing in such a way adds fuel to the fire. Instead I’m going to buy a few beers and be miserable all the way back to London.
 
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: DearneValleyRover on September 25, 2021, 05:34:02 pm
Unfortunately they were both pens so can’t even blame Kettle
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on September 25, 2021, 05:36:39 pm
Strangely, I feel more upbeat after today than last week. There were signs of things coming together today against a much better side.

But both penalties were definitely penalties and were both really unforced ones. Bad errors of judgement/concentration by Knoyle and Dahlberg. It does feel like a potentially excellent 3 points chucked away.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: Spud on September 25, 2021, 05:36:57 pm
Gutting that but sounds like the performances are building. Onto the next.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: Colin C No.3 on September 25, 2021, 05:48:01 pm
Thanks for that HA. It just puts things into perspective for those of us who didn’t make the journey.

Good on you for doing so.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: jmt23 on September 25, 2021, 05:50:35 pm
I suppose these decsions even themselves out... Dahlberg got away with wrestling last week, I am upbeat, as it sounded better than previous games.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: PDX_Rover on September 25, 2021, 06:07:42 pm
It was harsh on Rovers, but the performance was good. You can see it coming together.

Onwards.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on September 25, 2021, 06:27:37 pm
I suppose these decsions even themselves out... Dahlberg got away with wrestling last week, I am upbeat, as it sounded better than previous games.

That's not evening out though. He got away with a blatant penalty last week. He didn't get away with a blatant penalty this week. It'll even out when he doesn't foul someone and the ref gives a penalty.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: jmt23 on September 25, 2021, 06:55:25 pm
Good point, but listening to the ifollow it wasn't clear whether its was a foul, sounded more of a dive that the ref bought. I have clearly not seen it yet.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: big fat yorkshire pudding on September 25, 2021, 06:55:50 pm
Disappointing in the end but we seamt to create chances and that's a huge step forward. If we are improving we will start winning games. Looking at the fixtures you'd expect better results in October then we can move on from there.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: Padge_DRFC on September 25, 2021, 07:10:42 pm
Good point, but listening to the ifollow it wasn't clear whether its was a foul, sounded more of a dive that the ref bought. I have clearly not seen it yet.

Stone wall penalty. Shouldn't have even got to that point from a routine catch
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: dickos1 on September 25, 2021, 07:23:12 pm
Neither look like penalties to me,
The first one happens all the time, the bloke was crossing, he’d already crossed and the ball had reached the intended area, the slide from our lad didn’t stop anything that would’ve happened without it.
The second one, the goalie didn’t rugby tackle him, his arms weren’t around him.
The player dived
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on September 25, 2021, 07:36:25 pm
Neither look like penalties to me,
The first one happens all the time, the bloke was crossing, he’d already crossed and the ball had reached the intended area, the slide from our lad didn’t stop anything that would’ve happened without it.
The second one, the goalie didn’t rugby tackle him, his arms weren’t around him.
The player dived

This is a wind up, right?
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: German Rover on September 25, 2021, 07:44:39 pm
Maybe if we had a manager with a modicum of self control it would help.

Complaining about a decision is fine, but losing control to the point where you get sent off helps noone.

We could really do with some leadership on the sidelines against ipswich, but RW will probably be banned.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: Southboy on September 25, 2021, 07:45:44 pm
There are signs of life in the team. Don't get me wrong, when they scored I was gutted but the takeaway from that game is that the team are starting to be just that, a team. No one was awful and some were good but best of all we no longer look toothless up front. If we continue to improve at this rate we'll be fine this season and could be excellent next. Onwards and upwards....
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: Padge_DRFC on September 25, 2021, 07:46:44 pm
Maybe if we had a manager with a modicum of self control it would help.

Complaining about a decision is fine, but losing control to the point where you get sent off helps noone.

We could really do with some leadership on the sidelines against ipswich, but RW will probably be banned.

I'm not sure, I don't think he was debating the penalty I think he was sent off for throwing a water bottle in frustration and it ended up in the home end.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: Little Wolf on September 25, 2021, 07:49:23 pm
Am i the only who saw Dahlberg punch the ball away before the second penalty, clearly got the ball before the man, no penalty
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: dickos1 on September 25, 2021, 07:53:48 pm
Neither look like penalties to me,
The first one happens all the time, the bloke was crossing, he’d already crossed and the ball had reached the intended area, the slide from our lad didn’t stop anything that would’ve happened without it.
The second one, the goalie didn’t rugby tackle him, his arms weren’t around him.
The player dived

This is a wind up, right?

No, why because it’s a different opinion to yours?
Players get to the byline all the time and put in crosses and get caught by a defender trying to stop the cross I’ve never seen a penalty given before.
The second one is a dive, the goalie doesn’t touch him
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: idler on September 25, 2021, 08:04:31 pm
I'd rather be devastated because we were a bit unlucky to lose than how I was feeling in most games after Christmas last season.
I would hope that the players are chomping at the bit to put things right in the next game.
We no longer look as clueless and toothless as we have for large parts over the last few months.
The building blocks are there and falling into place. Let's try to be patient.
Despite today's result we are making progress. Look for the positives.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: Pancho Regan on September 25, 2021, 08:07:19 pm
Neither look like penalties to me,
The first one happens all the time, the bloke was crossing, he’d already crossed and the ball had reached the intended area, the slide from our lad didn’t stop anything that would’ve happened without it.
The second one, the goalie didn’t rugby tackle him, his arms weren’t around him.
The player dived

This is a wind up, right?

From the many posts I’ve read from dickos1, I’ve never once got the impression that he does ‘wind-ups’.
If you don’t agree with his post, why can’t you say so in a more polite manner?



Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: drfchound on September 25, 2021, 08:12:48 pm
Neither look like penalties to me,
The first one happens all the time, the bloke was crossing, he’d already crossed and the ball had reached the intended area, the slide from our lad didn’t stop anything that would’ve happened without it.
The second one, the goalie didn’t rugby tackle him, his arms weren’t around him.
The player dived

This is a wind up, right?

From the many posts I’ve read from dickos1, I’ve never once got the impression that he does ‘wind-ups’.
If you don’t agree with his post, why can’t you say so in a more polite manner?



Totally agree Pancho.
Dickos usually offers very good observations on match situations.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: sedwardsdrfc on September 25, 2021, 08:23:17 pm
The blocking of shots and crosses is a irritating one. If the player gets a shot/cross away and the player blocking doesn't go in dangerously i don't think it's a foul. The defender has to lung into the space to have any hope of blocking anything. Your giving too much advantage to attackers if that kind of contact instantly becomes a foul.

Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on September 25, 2021, 08:32:35 pm
I honestly can't believe anyone is even discussing the first one. Their lad got the cross away. Knoyle slid straight through him a second later. Where else on the pitch would you say "no foul" if a player gets wiped out after playing the ball? Knoyle wasn't remotely close to blocking the cross. It was a bad choice of action and we'd be screaming the place down if that foul happened at the other end and no penalty was given.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: Chris Black come back on September 25, 2021, 08:41:05 pm
Have just seen highlights. Quality not great on the replay but great ball from someone to Hiwula on the first goal. Calm finish from him even if it looked like an own goal. First penalty looked a bit like ball had already been released by time Knoyle tackled him. Dahlberg got exceptionally close to saving the penalty. Second penalty guy threw himself down like pantomime dame so hard to see what actually happened. Dahlberg was at or around him at this point though.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: BigH on September 25, 2021, 08:42:57 pm
It was harsh on Rovers, but the performance was good. You can see it coming together.

Onwards.
I think that's the positive isn't it. We're creating chances and capable of getting a goal. That's a big improvement on where we've been these past 6 months.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: Dutch Uncle on September 25, 2021, 08:44:36 pm
I've only seen the videos, but I have the following comments about the second penalty:

1) If Dahlberg makes the catch and falls on the ball then there is no situation arising.

2) The amount of contact between Dahlberg and the Plymouth payer is difficult to determine, certainly last week against Morecambe was a far far clearer penalty.

3) Following the contact the Plymouth player 'flew' away from Dahlberg like he had been shot from a cannon, against all the rules of Physics unless he put a significant amount of his own energy into generating that flight path. Difficult to tell whether this was exaggeration of contact or full on simulation.

I can see why Kettle gave it but IMHO the Plymouth player's action contributed.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: drfchound on September 25, 2021, 08:47:27 pm
Looking at the highlights the first one does look harsh.
I have lost count of the number of times I have seen similar incidents where players come together after a cross has been made and nothing is given.
I also agree that their player throws himself to the ground for the second one after feeling Dahlberg behind him but I didn’t think there was enough in it to make him go down like that.
Still, we got away with one last week so I guess this one evens things out a bit.
No way was the first one a pen though.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on September 25, 2021, 08:51:44 pm
Have just seen highlights. Quality not great on the replay but great ball from someone to Hiwula on the first goal. Calm finish from him even if it looked like an own goal. First penalty looked a bit like ball had already been released by time Knoyle tackled him. Dahlberg got exceptionally close to saving the penalty. Second penalty guy threw himself down like pantomime dame so hard to see what actually happened. Dahlberg was at or around him at this point though.

Galbraith played the ball to Hiwula. Excellent pass.

First penalty. The ball was fully 2 yards away when Knoyle made contact. Stupid challenge and it is a stonewall penalty.

Second one to be fair it's not 100% clear from the video, but if it was a dive, Agard deserves an award. He fell in exactly the fashion that someone would if they were trying to run from a standing start and someone grabbed their ankle. If he's not been touched but managed to pull off a near-perfect simulation, he should be a stunt double.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on September 25, 2021, 08:53:07 pm
For once I disagree with you Dutch. If you're trying to sprint from standing and your foot gets caught, the natural consequence is that your torso will accelerate forwards.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: Dutch Uncle on September 25, 2021, 08:55:06 pm
For once I disagree with you Dutch. If you're trying to sprint from standing and your foot gets caught, the natural consequence is that your torso will accelerate forwards.

No problem BST. I don't find it easy to unravel exactly what happened - and as I said I can see why Kettle gave it.   
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on September 25, 2021, 08:57:53 pm
Interesting point I've just spotted on the video of the second penalty incident. As the ball came in, and before Dahlberg spilled it, their No4 deliberately jumped into Rowe well off the ball, hitting him in the face. Very poor of the linesman on that side not to spot it. That was the first offence in the action.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: Spud on September 25, 2021, 09:04:50 pm
Not sure if the link's been posted, I may have missed it, but for anyone else

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/12418038/plymouth-2-1-doncaster

Knoyle's challenge is the frustrating one for me, he was never getting there. Then Pontus nearly keeps it out.....
Gotta learn from this, points lost today.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: sedwardsdrfc on September 25, 2021, 09:16:32 pm
Just seen the highlights. My earlier comment re blocking a cross doesn't apply to Knoyle here it's a pen or if anything it's needlessly clumsy and the ref will always give it. On the byline you often get it where to block the cross there's a bit of contact once the balls gone. Don't think this was the same.

Pontus for all the good things he does had dropped two massive clangers costing us points and momentum. Obviously going to be a good keeper but needs to cut out the brain farts soon. Wouldn't be so bad if he was our own young keeper where we'd see the benefits of his experience with us. But instead he'll make the mistakes for us and then go play for someone else next year.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on September 25, 2021, 09:17:08 pm
11:24 here gives some light on the second penalty.

https://www.google.com/search?q=plymouth+doncaster+highlights&oq=&aqs=chrome.3.69i58j69i64j35i39i362i523l8...8.-1j1j4&client=ms-android-ee-uk-revc&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:194feedd,vid:azB0qZw74GU,st:0

It's not perfect quality video, but if you step it through it looks like both Dahlberg's arms wrap momentarily around Agard's ankles. As I say, if Agard in a fraction of a second, chooses to dive in exactly the way you'd go down if your ankles were grabbed as you tried to get moving, then executed that dive flawlessly (including trailing his left leg behind him as he fell as if it had been grabbed) he really has missed his vocation.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: sedwardsdrfc on September 25, 2021, 09:35:03 pm
Just don't drop a simple cross then there's no need to dissect footage. It's about giving the ref a decision to make. We know they are useless and will get more wrong than right
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: Spud on September 25, 2021, 09:45:03 pm
If he was the finished article he wouldn't be here would he? Sounds like Plymouth might have already been out of sight before we scored but for him.

Btw, anyone see Seny throw one in his net for West Brom last night? Found myself watching a bit of it pondering which keeper I'd take back this season, given the choice, then, oh.....
It happens.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: DonnyBazR0ver on September 25, 2021, 09:49:44 pm
Just seen the video and deffo looks like a dive for their second penalty but as has been said, keeper shouldn't have got himself in that position!
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: donnievic on September 25, 2021, 09:56:41 pm
Just don't drop a simple cross then there's no need to dissect footage. It's about giving the ref a decision to make. We know they are useless and will get more wrong than right
exactly if that had been Jones doing it most would be in uproar on here dropping a easy catch and wouldn’t even be arguing the penalty decision
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: rich1471 on September 25, 2021, 09:59:04 pm
Watched it on TV and looked like he dived or had been shot ,but Dahlberg should not have dropped that ball 
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: SydneyRover on September 25, 2021, 10:24:21 pm
For those of you who weren’t there today, that was (in my opinion) the best we’ve played all season, particularly in the second half.

The way in which we lost the game, so late on, was heartbreaking to say the least. I couldn’t see whether the penalties were legitimate or not from where I was but you always have to give the Ref the benefit of the doubt I suppose.
The players at the end looked completely demoralised; they all clearly care. They also clearly have the talent as shown today. It’s just going to take time.

Be absolutely clear though, if we’d have won today it would have been absolutely deserved. My Plymouth supporting mates agree that both sides did enough to win. But when the football Gods aren’t smiling at you…

I’m not going to get involved in squabbles about our performances as I did last week. I’m sure that plenty of people will have a lot to say and losing in such a way adds fuel to the fire. Instead I’m going to buy a few beers and be miserable all the way back to London.

Thanks also HA, when you can't watch the game you can get a bit of an idea with the match report but this gives it from the fans perspective, it does sound like a good game and that we're playing more competitively.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: POD on September 25, 2021, 10:30:19 pm
Just seen the highlights on Quest and I think that both were correct penalties, although in the second incident the player made the most of the foul.
As for Dahlberg, he got away with one against Morecambe last week but wasn’t so fortunate this week.   
It’s very similar to Balcombe last season where he seems to have a mistake in him and sometimes a rush of blood to the head when it comes to the seconds after that mistake.
Let’s hope he continues to learn from his mistakes and keeps us in many more games than he loses. 
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: Bentley Bullet on September 25, 2021, 10:32:19 pm
The second penalty was an absolute dive.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: Lesonthewest on September 25, 2021, 11:29:19 pm
Neither look like penalties to me,
The first one happens all the time, the bloke was crossing, he’d already crossed and the ball had reached the intended area, the slide from our lad didn’t stop anything that would’ve happened without it.
The second one, the goalie didn’t rugby tackle him, his arms weren’t around him.
The player dived

Disagree, both nailed on pens.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: EpsTheMightyReds on September 25, 2021, 11:38:20 pm
I’m going to turn the iPad off before the day gets any worse. At least the boat in Brixham is spot on.
My thoughts for what it’s worth.
We battled hard in the first half and I did fear that we wouldn’t be able to keep it up. Our midfields legs had gone 10 mins before their first pen. I personally think RW should have made a change earlier.
We were obviously at the opposite end to the pens but there wasn’t a lot of dispute from the Rovers fans, the first looked like an unnecessary challenge and definite penalty. The second simply shouldn’t have happened- keepers error in the first place.
Although disappointed, we’re nowhere near as bad as I thought after reading some comments on here. We lack quality and pace up front but we all know that. The encouraging thing is that every player gave every last bit of effort for Richie and the travelling fans - as a supporter, I don’t think you can ask for much more than that
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: Janso on September 25, 2021, 11:47:54 pm
Just got in having left the house at 5:40 this morning.

Really enjoyed the game despite the absolutely soul destroying way it turned out and as said, probably our best performance. Some of their fans even said we deserved at least a point. Much to be positive about, even in defeat.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: dickos1 on September 26, 2021, 12:04:59 am
Neither look like penalties to me,
The first one happens all the time, the bloke was crossing, he’d already crossed and the ball had reached the intended area, the slide from our lad didn’t stop anything that would’ve happened without it.
The second one, the goalie didn’t rugby tackle him, his arms weren’t around him.
The player dived

Disagree, both nailed on pens.

In your opinion!

How many times have we seen a player take a shot but get caught afterwards or play a ball into the box from the byline get caught and nothing is ever given,
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: Pancho Regan on September 26, 2021, 12:12:21 am
11:24 here gives some light on the second penalty.

https://www.google.com/search?q=plymouth+doncaster+highlights&oq=&aqs=chrome.3.69i58j69i64j35i39i362i523l8...8.-1j1j4&client=ms-android-ee-uk-revc&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:194feedd,vid:azB0qZw74GU,st:0

It's not perfect quality video, but if you step it through it looks like both Dahlberg's arms wrap momentarily around Agard's ankles. As I say, if Agard in a fraction of a second, chooses to dive in exactly the way you'd go down if your ankles were grabbed as you tried to get moving, then executed that dive flawlessly (including trailing his left leg behind him as he fell as if it had been grabbed) he really has missed his vocation.

Oh my days, we’re back to measuring the precise dimensions of a gnat’s chuff again.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: PDX_Rover on September 26, 2021, 01:09:05 am
There’s no way on god’s green earth that second penalty is a penalty. I’ve just watched it over and over again and it’s ridiculous. Dahlberg should’ve definitely got the ball but the Plymouth player, it’s pantomime stuff.

The first penalty is stupid. The lad’s got the ball away and falls over in doing so and Knoyle slides into him. I don’t actually think he brings him down.

Find margins and split-second decisions of course, but we were desperately unlucky to lose that one.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: bpoolrover on September 26, 2021, 02:04:17 am
The 1st penalty knowle slides into him even if he has not got the ball it's a foul, just because the guy put a crap cross in it's still a foul, the second one yes it's soft but the goalie had his arms round the guys leg so it's a penalty, yes the forward fell over easily but it's a penalty
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: dickos1 on September 26, 2021, 07:57:11 am
There’s no footage showing if dhalberg has his arms around his legs or not. If you zoom into the still his arms are tucked in and aren’t even touching their player.
The first one, happens all the time he slid into him after the cross had been made, technically that’s a foul but incidents like it happen all the time and I’ve never seen a pen given
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: DonnyOsmond on September 26, 2021, 08:11:35 am
The 1st penalty knowle slides into him even if he has not got the ball it's a foul, just because the guy put a crap cross in it's still a foul, the second one yes it's soft but the goalie had his arms round the guys leg so it's a penalty, yes the forward fell over easily but it's a penalty

Knoyle*

But agree with what you say on the first one. It's just a miss timed challenge.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: Lesonthewest on September 26, 2021, 08:40:25 am
Neither look like penalties to me,
The first one happens all the time, the bloke was crossing, he’d already crossed and the ball had reached the intended area, the slide from our lad didn’t stop anything that would’ve happened without it.
The second one, the goalie didn’t rugby tackle him, his arms weren’t around him.
The player dived

Disagree, both nailed on pens.

In your opinion!

How many times have we seen a player take a shot but get caught afterwards or play a ball into the box from the byline get caught and nothing is ever given,

Of course it's my opinion! In Knoyles case their player outwitted him for a split second & Knoyle commits a late challenge. The second on Dahlberg clumsily makes contact with their player.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: Jonathan on September 26, 2021, 09:05:57 am
I’ve not watched the replays back yet but my instinct immediately after was that we can have few complaints about the penalty decisions.

I did think the Knoyle one was harsh given that he didn’t prevent their player from doing anything (the ball had already been crossed exactly as intended) and I don’t know if their player made the most of the second one. But we were naive in the way we gave the referee decisions to make for both of them. They could so easily have been avoided.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: StocksArmy on September 26, 2021, 10:44:11 am
My opinion is that the first pen is the most harsh. I have watched and rewound both plenty of times. Knoyle should never go to ground which is straight away giving the ref a decision to make but the guy is already on his way down when he crosses it!

The 2nd one I'm not sure if anybody else has a better angle of the challenge but its a blantant pen. The motion in which the player goes down is the giveaway. Also you know Dahlberg grabs him because the ball goes away from him a second before he makes contact. The most annoying thing is how the f*** has he not caught it!? He clearly shouts for it because its on Andersons head and he leaves it for him. Its a joke how many times we shoot ourselves in the foot late in games. No matter who the manager is, no matter who the personell on the pitch is, season after season after season we totally lack concentration. Were 8 games in and already making Danny Bakers next DVD featuring purely ourselves.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: Jonathan on September 26, 2021, 10:55:26 am
This is ultimately what you get with loaning young players. I’m certainly not suggesting Dahlberg was a bad signing, on the contrary I think he’s an excellent keeper and by some distance the best we’ve had since Dieng (and better than plenty that preceded him). But he’s young and has shown occasional weaknesses in concentration and a tendency to make rash decisions. He’ll learn and iron out those faults in time, and Watford will be the beneficiary. He could play at a very high level in the future in my opinion. Come the summer we’ll be back at square one needing a goalkeeper.

But that’s the loan market. And I do get the fact that we couldn’t afford to bring in a permanent goalkeeper of comparable quality. It is what it is.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: Bentley Bullet on September 26, 2021, 11:03:34 am
On the penalty decisions, I agree with Richie Wellens:


“I’m disappointed with the result but really proud of the players’ performance.”

On the penalty decisions, Wellens said: “Is it a penalty? It probably is a penalty but week in week out you will see people getting to the byline and pulling a cross back and the defender going into him and it won’t be given.

“And the second one’s not a penalty. Pontus says he hasn’t touched him and I just watched it back and he hasn’t touched him, the lad’s dived.”
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: StocksArmy on September 26, 2021, 11:10:26 am
On the penalty decisions, I agree with Richie Wellens:


“I’m disappointed with the result but really proud of the players’ performance.”

On the penalty decisions, Wellens said: “Is it a penalty? It probably is a penalty but week in week out you will see people getting to the byline and pulling a cross back and the defender going into him and it won’t be given.

“And the second one’s not a penalty. Pontus says he hasn’t touched him and I just watched it back and he hasn’t touched him, the lad’s dived.”

He also said Wigans 2nd goal was offside though.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: Bentley Bullet on September 26, 2021, 11:12:36 am
I didn't say I agreed with his view on Wigan's 2nd goal, I said I agreed with his views on the penalties at Plymouth.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on September 26, 2021, 11:22:08 am
I'm genuinely bemused that anyone is even talking about the first penalty. The ball is two yards away when Knoyle makes contact. It isn't even remotely close to being a fair challenge.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: StocksArmy on September 26, 2021, 11:24:35 am
I didn't say I agreed with his view on Wigan's 2nd goal, I said I agreed with his views on the penalties at Plymouth.

I never said anything about your opinion. Im pointing out that he is not always correct. Hes got his head in the sand. My opinion of course.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: StocksArmy on September 26, 2021, 11:28:35 am
I'm genuinely bemused that anyone is even talking about the first penalty. The ball is two yards away when Knoyle makes contact. It isn't even remotely close to being a fair challenge.

I would love to have the luxury of VAR and see it close up. I think that happens outside the area its not given in a million years. I think you are right in what you are saying but, the challenge effects nothing in the play and doesnt endanger the player so I think its harsh to say the least.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: Dutch Uncle on September 26, 2021, 11:29:19 am
Interesting to note the phrasing in the BBC/Press Association report of the match:

before Luke Jephcott levelled after Ryan Broom was fouled by Kyle Knoyle in the box.

With the game looking to be petering out for a draw, referee Trevor Kettle awarded Argyle their second penalty in stoppage time, after Pontus Dahlberg was adjudged to have pulled down substitute Kieran Agard after spilling a cross.


The suggestion is that the first penalty was correct and 'was adjudged' suggests there is doubt about the second, at least in the eye of the reporter.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on September 26, 2021, 11:33:16 am
Wellens's comments are just silly. You cannot watch the official video and say categorically that Agard has dived.

I understand the frustration and the stress, but your judgement is devalued if you publicly make comments like this, and the one at Wigan.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: hstripes on September 26, 2021, 11:34:28 am
Absolutely devastated for the 250-300 Rovers fans who travelled all that way to support a team bottom of the table. You're all heroes to a man and woman in my eyes. Hope you all got back safe and no-one is stuck somewhere on the M5 hard shoulder having run out of fuel.

Encouraged by the reports back. Thanks for all of those.

For me 2 cast iron penalties. My test would be what would I think if the same had happened at the other end - in both cases I'd be incandescent if penalties hadn't been awarded to Rovers for those incidents.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on September 26, 2021, 11:35:26 am
I think that's fair enough Dutch. The first one, there's no question. It's clear as day on the video that Knoyle fouled their player. For the second one, the official video doesn't show whether or not contact was made.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: ColinDouglasHandshake on September 26, 2021, 12:02:39 pm
Wellens is slowly turning into the League 1 Mourinho. Not due to an obsessive penchant for defensive resilience, but for whinging about anything and everything.

At Wigan he moaned about the free kick given for the Latic's opener whilst failing to acknowledge that his side failed abysmally to defend the free kick properly and proceeded to give Will Keane more space in the box than is between Boris Johnson's ears.

Likewise the Wigan winner. In your own time Mr Keane.

Poor defending and decision making has cost us at both Wigan and Plymouth and could have cost us the point we mustered against Pompey after Williams gifted the visitors a late penalty, which thankfully was saved. Dahlberg threw one in at Accrington too.

Wellens also claimed prior to the Morecambe game that the handbrake would be well and truly off, we would throw numbers forward and hit the Shrimps with a vengeance.

In reality, we were dire. Slow, created little and displayed the opposite reaction to the managers wishes. We were promised a thrill ride but I ended up that heavily sedated that i was unsure if i was fit to drive home. In the end Rowe proved to be a timely alarm clock.

I didn't hear Wellens apologising that his plan to tear Morecambe limb from limb from the get go failed to materialize. 

There is no doubt in my mind that we are making gradual improvements after a difficult start to the season, with the fixtures and injuries etc and this is the hope i hang on to that makes me think we will be ok.

However, i would like Richie to concentrate on the football and stop using obvious deflection tactics to self preserve his position. At the moment he is not doing a satisfactory job in my opinion, all things considered and this needs to improve soon.

The good thing is there is plenty of time and Richie needs it to slowly steer us around to relative L1 safety. I think he is more than capable of doing this.

Credit to Plymouth, they won. We didn't. Positives from the performance can be taken into the game with Ipswich but with a highflying MK Dons next up at the Keepmoat, things don't get easier.


Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: Chris Black come back on September 26, 2021, 12:11:03 pm
I’ve not watched the replays back yet but my instinct immediately after was that we can have few complaints about the penalty decisions.

I did think the Knoyle one was harsh given that he didn’t prevent their player from doing anything (the ball had already been crossed exactly as intended) and I don’t know if their player made the most of the second one. But we were naive in the way we gave the referee decisions to make for both of them. They could so easily have been avoided.
This is ultimately what you get with loaning young players. I’m certainly not suggesting Dahlberg was a bad signing, on the contrary I think he’s an excellent keeper and by some distance the best we’ve had since Dieng (and better than plenty that preceded him). But he’s young and has shown occasional weaknesses in concentration and a tendency to make rash decisions. He’ll learn and iron out those faults in time, and Watford will be the beneficiary. He could play at a very high level in the future in my opinion. Come the summer we’ll be back at square one needing a goalkeeper.

But that’s the loan market. And I do get the fact that we couldn’t afford to bring in a permanent goalkeeper of comparable quality. It is what it is.

Balcombe last season away at Lincoln. Not sure we will see something that nuts for a long time. Young keepers don’t have the temperament when they come to us. Dieng a little older but I don’t reckon he is fannying around with ball at his feet in the six yard box these days.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: Bentley Bullet on September 26, 2021, 12:22:18 pm
I didn't say I agreed with his view on Wigan's 2nd goal, I said I agreed with his views on the penalties at Plymouth.

I never said anything about your opinion. Im pointing out that he is not always correct. Hes got his head in the sand. My opinion of course.
I've never thought Wellens was always correct, me neither, but on this occasion (PLYMOUTH) I think he was bang on.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: Bentley Bullet on September 26, 2021, 12:38:45 pm
Wellens's comments are just silly. You cannot watch the official video and say categorically that Agard has dived.

I understand the frustration and the stress, but your judgement is devalued if you publicly make comments like this, and the one at Wigan.

You are bound to say Wellens' comments are silly because after all, they differ from yours. No change there!

I wasn't aware that Wellens' view was based solely on what he saw on the official video. Regarding the video, I saw no contact for the second penalty but definitely saw what looked like a blatant dive from their player.

Verdict: No penalty for the second one.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: Spud on September 26, 2021, 01:53:54 pm
Maybe Wellens had a better view of the Agard one than what we can see on the video.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: Lesonthewest on September 26, 2021, 01:57:08 pm
Gutted for the players & our support, thought we looked really good & much more of a threat going forward. Plenty of positives in the performance & if we can find a bit of consistency now, we will start to pick up some points. Unlucky lads.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on September 26, 2021, 03:42:34 pm
Maybe Wellens had a better view of the Agard one than what we can see on the video.

He said "I just watched it back and he hasn’t touched him, the lad’s dived."

So he wasn't judging from what he saw at the time. He's judging from a video. If it is the main iFollow/Sky one, there is no way on earth he can come to that conclusion.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on September 26, 2021, 03:43:34 pm
Gutted for the players & our support, thought we looked really good & much more of a threat going forward. Plenty of positives in the performance & if we can find a bit of consistency now, we will start to pick up some points. Unlucky lads.

Bang on. Yesterday was the first time this season I've thought that if we continue to play like that, we'll survive comfortably.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: Bentley Bullet on September 26, 2021, 03:52:06 pm
Maybe Wellens had a better view of the Agard one than what we can see on the video.

He said "I just watched it back and he hasn’t touched him, the lad’s dived."

So he wasn't judging from what he saw at the time. He's judging from a video. If it is the main iFollow/Sky one, there is no way on earth he can come to that conclusion.
Of course he'd have watched it back! That doesn't mean he's changed his mind about what he thought of it at the time. Maybe it just confirmed his initial opinion?
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: dickos1 on September 26, 2021, 03:52:49 pm
As has been mentioned a number of times knoyles challenge didn’t impeded their player at all, he still made the cross he intended to.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: dickos1 on September 26, 2021, 03:55:41 pm
I was watching match of day last night and Dallas for Leeds had a shot which was saved well but the defender came in on him after he’d got the shot off, no free kick

Happens all the time
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: NickDRFC on September 26, 2021, 04:26:33 pm
I was watching match of day last night and Dallas for Leeds had a shot which was saved well but the defender came in on him after he’d got the shot off, no free kick

Happens all the time

It doesn’t make Knoyle’s challenge any less of a foul. Idiotic tackle to make.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: Bentley Bullet on September 26, 2021, 04:31:13 pm
I don't think anyone is arguing it wasn't a foul. The point is a penalty was given even though it didn't appear to interfere with the progress of play.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: bpoolrover on September 26, 2021, 05:36:10 pm
People are right fouls are not given for that most of the time but that is just bad officials, if you make a foul while the ball is in play it's a foul simple as that, I'm sure he will learn anyway and there were many positives from the game
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: Goole Rover on September 26, 2021, 07:05:52 pm
As has been mentioned a number of times knoyles challenge didn’t impeded their player at all, he still made the cross he intended to.

Agree !
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: scawsby steve on September 26, 2021, 07:12:44 pm
All the defensive minded pundits on the box, Neville, Carragher and others, always say not to go to ground in the box when making the tackle, it's fraught with danger.

Stupid tackle by Knoyle.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on September 26, 2021, 09:51:26 pm
I was watching match of day last night and Dallas for Leeds had a shot which was saved well but the defender came in on him after he’d got the shot off, no free kick

Happens all the time

I watched those highlights. I didn't see that incident. Roughly when in the match was it?
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: Colin C No.3 on September 26, 2021, 11:15:48 pm
Not too sure, but think it was about 3 beers & 2 bottles of Merlot in.
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: dickos1 on September 27, 2021, 02:46:41 pm
I was watching match of day last night and Dallas for Leeds had a shot which was saved well but the defender came in on him after he’d got the shot off, no free kick

Happens all the time

I watched those highlights. I didn't see that incident. Roughly when in the match was it?

Around the 12th min
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on September 27, 2021, 04:03:07 pm
I was watching match of day last night and Dallas for Leeds had a shot which was saved well but the defender came in on him after he’d got the shot off, no free kick

Happens all the time

I watched those highlights. I didn't see that incident. Roughly when in the match was it?

Around the 12th min
In that case, I'm totally lost. The shot in question is at 44:30 in this link and no defender got anywhere near Dallas.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m00103yb/match-of-the-day-202122-25092021
Title: Re: Absolutely Devastated
Post by: dickos1 on September 27, 2021, 11:16:27 pm
Yes you’re right actually
It was the effort by benrahma just before