Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: since-1969 on November 25, 2021, 09:16:14 am
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The owners are on safe journey to establish a self sustaining club that is build around many streams of income and not reliant on the owners making up the short fall . It sounds idealistic and sound business practice . BUT it comes at a price . This price is now paid by the fans by tapering their expectations of success year on year . With loan players to fill in the squads deficiencies often players who haven’t played at Efl level . Wages being the main burden on a clubs income is capped by the turnover and spending over all is spread over several transfer windows to maximise its chances of signing available out of contract players . Managers are not expected to exceed the budget or risk players being loaned out to other small clubs to keep within its budget . This model is not designed for success on the pitch but to maintain a balance sheet without the owners required to invest . DRFC are drifting slowly into obscurity with its fan base dwindling year on year. Imo 145 years of the clubs history is being ring fenced and bound up in a metaphoric chastity belt to prevent it ever getting ideas beyond its capabilities to grow . Baldwin and co are a fraud and should leave if ever the club is to get its self respect back to the fans who have seen this demise years before and the pain of the exile out of the League before . Let the supporters have a say now or watch US all walk away !! This my view only !
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Another pile of shite!
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!969, I always wondered if you were an sane, now I know. If you had supported the club under Bates and Richardson you would have been close to suicide. Even 60 odd years later Bates can be looked back on as the owner who stunted the clubs potential the most at a time when we could have kicked on to be a much more respected club than what we became due to him.
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Since 1969.
I will remain polite, I couldn’t disagree more. Have a pleasant day. RTID
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The owners are on safe journey to establish a self sustaining club that is build around many streams of income and not reliant on the owners making up the short fall . It sounds idealistic and sound business practice . BUT it comes at a price . This price is now paid by the fans by tapering their expectations of success year on year . With loan players to fill in the squads deficiencies often players who haven’t played at Efl level . Wages being the main burden on a clubs income is capped by the turnover and spending over all is spread over several transfer windows to maximise its chances of signing available out of contract players . Managers are not expected to exceed the budget or risk players being loaned out to other small clubs to keep within its budget . This model is not designed for success on the pitch but to maintain a balance sheet without the owners required to invest . DRFC are drifting slowly into obscurity with its fan base dwindling year on year. Imo 145 years of the clubs history is being ring fenced and bound up in a metaphoric chastity belt to prevent it ever getting ideas beyond its capabilities to grow . Baldwin and co are a fraud and should leave if ever the club is to get its self respect back to the fans who have seen this demise years before and the pain of the exile out of the League before . Let the supporters have a say now or watch US all walk away !! This my view only !
Please it is your view only. Well I hope it is.
Nothing more needs to be said other than what you have written is insane. Your not living in the real world.
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The owners are on safe journey to establish a self sustaining club that is build around many streams of income and not reliant on the owners making up the short fall . It sounds idealistic and sound business practice . BUT it comes at a price . This price is now paid by the fans by tapering their expectations of success year on year . With loan players to fill in the squads deficiencies often players who haven’t played at Efl level . Wages being the main burden on a clubs income is capped by the turnover and spending over all is spread over several transfer windows to maximise its chances of signing available out of contract players . Managers are not expected to exceed the budget or risk players being loaned out to other small clubs to keep within its budget . This model is not designed for success on the pitch but to maintain a balance sheet without the owners required to invest . DRFC are drifting slowly into obscurity with its fan base dwindling year on year. Imo 145 years of the clubs history is being ring fenced and bound up in a metaphoric chastity belt to prevent it ever getting ideas beyond its capabilities to grow . Baldwin and co are a fraud and should leave if ever the club is to get its self respect back to the fans who have seen this demise years before and the pain of the exile out of the League before . Let the supporters have a say now or watch US all walk away !! This my view only !
The ramblings of someone desperate for attention
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Success can be achieved on a relatively modest budget given the correct set of circumstances. I am against the club spending loads of money to try and chase success, invariably because that success more often than not does not materialize and then the club is left with players who are failing but who we still have to pay along with more debt.
Personally i don't require success as a reason to continue going to games. I'll go regardless but i do expect a lot better from our manager and players than we are getting at the moment.
We must remember that we are Doncaster Rovers, not Chelsea and whilst some may see that as having a small club mentality, this is reality.
The club should gradually shift towards a self sustaining model and fans expectations should be realistic about how this translates to success (or lack of) on the pitch. The club should focus on making the club a lot more fan oriented and community and fan engagement seriously needs stepping up.
The way i see it is that most clubs at lower levels don't achieve success and often serve up dire football. Therefore the trick for clubs like ours is to not only retain supporters given this, but also gain more of them despite the 'product' on the pitch being generally poor.
If fans feel communicated with, engaged with, listened to and made to feel an intrinsic and valuable part of the football club then they are less likely to become disillusioned and then stop attending when the football is crap. As it often is.
Fans that say that they will stop going to games if the club don't spend money and the team don't get success are entitled to their opinion and i appreciate it is frustrating, but these fans maybe should go and watch Liverpool instead.
Yes we could be a club that some sugar daddy pumps money into and we experience temporary success, even getting to the Premier League. However, this will only be temporary and we will eventually slide back down to the level we should be at and then run the risk of being saddled with huge debt.
Wigan for example had a great time for a few short years and even won the FA Cup, but they were in financial difficulty and are now in our league. Same as Bolton. In Europe and the Prem for a few years but eventually dropped through the divisions and nearly went bust. That cannot be allowed to happen at DRFC, even if we are chasing a far less lofty dream of promotion to the Championship.
Build the academy. Give them a chance. Stop signing crap players on 2 year deals and borrowing rubbish kids from Premier League teams when we can use our own would be a start.
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You’re entitled to your opinion but please don’t say we’ll all walk away, that shifts from your opinion (which surprisingly in my opinion is BS) to speaking for all fans. I’m not happy with the league position but thrilled we have the board and manager we have
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Unfortunately football is a business no matter which way you look at it. Isn’t it obvious that any business should want to be self-sufficient, ideally make a profit. I can’t believe the front of people coming on here suggesting that other people should put more and more of their own money in. We know the whole game is skewed because of the massive injections of cash at the top and needs sorting but what is up with people? They’re in cloud cuckoo land! Do they want the board to take them out for a post match meal and a piss-up after games? It’s only fair really!
:suicide:
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Another pile of shite!
Well said, end of
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Very noticeable that it's the same old names having a go and calling the person starting this thread. For those who have posted. It's a pile of shite. Ramblings of a deluded person. Insane etc. Would you like to point out other than it is Baldwins fault what he has said that is incorrect.
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The OP obviously gets over excited toward the end but he does make some valid points about the sustainability model that we're following.
First thing to say that the owners are entitled to go down whichever road they want to. If it were my money I'd not be pumping millions into a League One club either.
But there are consequences to be faced....
I can see us getting relegated and not coming back up. We'll have reduced cash coming in from the EFL, sponsors and gate receipts, as all the "big" clubs are in League 1. What happens then? Do the Owners fork out cash to get us promoted or do we aim to be sustainable in League Two?
In my experience it doesn't take a lot to put the majority of people off going to watch Rovers, so while a hard core will still turn up it'll be harder and harder to attract new fans. Its a savage circle isn't it and all points to a decline.
There's an old saying "if you're not moving forwards, you're going backwards" and that definitely applies to us atm.
I'd also question what the CEO means when he says he wants Rovers to get their identity back.
Which identity is that? The one fueled by John Ryan and the millions of pounds of investment in players that took us from Non League to the Championship? or the one where we bounced round the bottom of Division Four for god knows how many years?
Transfer window opens up soon so we'll get a better idea what the plan is then.
I wonder what peoples aspirations for the club are. How about swapping places with Chesterfield FC, being owned by some sort of Trust and trying to be sustainable & competitive in Non League? Would that work?
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A good post Rugby.
The thing with moving forwards and backwards in the English pyramid is that for every club moving up, there has to be one moving down. I suppose the issue is in defining the range of movement you are prepared to live with either way.
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The OP obviously gets over excited toward the end but he does make some valid points about the sustainability model that we're following.
First thing to say that the owners are entitled to go down whichever road they want to. If it were my money I'd not be pumping millions into a League One club either.
But there are consequences to be faced....
I can see us getting relegated and not coming back up. We'll have reduced cash coming in from the EFL, sponsors and gate receipts, as all the "big" clubs are in League 1. What happens then? Do the Owners fork out cash to get us promoted or do we aim to be sustainable in League Two?
In my experience it doesn't take a lot to put the majority of people off going to watch Rovers, so while a hard core will still turn up it'll be harder and harder to attract new fans. Its a savage circle isn't it and all points to a decline.
There's an old saying "if you're not moving forwards, you're going backwards" and that definitely applies to us atm.
I'd also question what the CEO means when he says he wants Rovers to get their identity back.
Which identity is that? The one fueled by John Ryan and the millions of pounds of investment in players that took us from Non League to the Championship? or the one where we bounced round the bottom of Division Four for god knows how many years?
Transfer window opens up soon so we'll get a better idea what the plan is then.
I wonder what peoples aspirations for the club are. How about swapping places with Chesterfield FC, being owned by some sort of Trust and trying to be sustainable & competitive in Non League? Would that work?
Spot on post, let some of those who are happy to defend our current direction and decision making powers answer some of those questions. Its easy to say also 'spend other people's money' but they have a position of responsibility having signed up for leading the football club, you either invest or go backwards, and as we see with the latter, that can become a vicious circle, of dwindling crowds, lower budgets, reduced quality in the squad, worse results, and continue on repeat. There are a number on here defending the indefensible in my opinion as to those who have overseen the direction of travel over the last 18 months and the mess of repeat manager appointments, poor transfer windows and recruitment etc. I think the wider mass supporter base are not as blinkered as those choosing to defend mis-management and a spiral of poor results this calendar year or that those with money in positions of responsibiiity don't focus on investing and seizing the initiative to stop the aforementioned spiral and likely relegation. Go on other forums / social media and hear the views of Rovers fans or friends and the general view in the ground (can't say on the terraces but you get the gist). The January transfer window and actions or lack of actions form the board will be interesting. You can see the lack of investment from the kit, to the matchday programme, both of lower quality and reflective of the lack of investment on the pitch too!
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The owners are on safe journey to establish a self sustaining club that is build around many streams of income and not reliant on the owners making up the short fall . It sounds idealistic and sound business practice . BUT it comes at a price . This price is now paid by the fans by tapering their expectations of success year on year . With loan players to fill in the squads deficiencies often players who haven’t played at Efl level . Wages being the main burden on a clubs income is capped by the turnover and spending over all is spread over several transfer windows to maximise its chances of signing available out of contract players . Managers are not expected to exceed the budget or risk players being loaned out to other small clubs to keep within its budget . This model is not designed for success on the pitch but to maintain a balance sheet without the owners required to invest . DRFC are drifting slowly into obscurity with its fan base dwindling year on year. Imo 145 years of the clubs history is being ring fenced and bound up in a metaphoric chastity belt to prevent it ever getting ideas beyond its capabilities to grow . Baldwin and co are a fraud and should leave if ever the club is to get its self respect back to the fans who have seen this demise years before and the pain of the exile out of the League before . Let the supporters have a say now or watch US all walk away !! This my view only !
If I spot the facts do I win £5?
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The owners are on safe journey to establish a self sustaining club that is build around many streams of income and not reliant on the owners making up the short fall . It sounds idealistic and sound business practice . BUT it comes at a price . This price is now paid by the fans by tapering their expectations of success year on year . With loan players to fill in the squads deficiencies often players who haven’t played at Efl level . Wages being the main burden on a clubs income is capped by the turnover and spending over all is spread over several transfer windows to maximise its chances of signing available out of contract players . Managers are not expected to exceed the budget or risk players being loaned out to other small clubs to keep within its budget . This model is not designed for success on the pitch but to maintain a balance sheet without the owners required to invest . DRFC are drifting slowly into obscurity with its fan base dwindling year on year. Imo 145 years of the clubs history is being ring fenced and bound up in a metaphoric chastity belt to prevent it ever getting ideas beyond its capabilities to grow . Baldwin and co are a fraud and should leave if ever the club is to get its self respect back to the fans who have seen this demise years before and the pain of the exile out of the League before . Let the supporters have a say now or watch US all walk away !! This my view only !
If I spot the facts do I win £5?
Maybe you should point out the inaccuracies instead?
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As football as a business is unsustainable due to so much artificial stimulus, I think it is the correct decision to try and find other revenue streams to fund the football. The team was in a false position under Moore before Christmas, which made the collapse after the Whiteman sale look all the more catastrophic. The board appointed Wellens which most people were happy with at the time, we were told it was a rebuild, we all knew it was going to be a tough, probably not this tough.
I’m not convinced by Wellens but what he’s been dealt has been awful, poor preparation and injuries. I can see signs of very slow improvement.
It’s easy to criticise, say the kit is crap etc, I don’t like the kit, I’m sure though it was designed in good faith, I’m sure every decision that is made is made in good faith, obviously there’s always an opportunity cost and sometimes you make the wrong decision.
I don’t honestly know what people expect from the owners, we are doing terribly but sometimes that happens you lose irreplaceable players and make bad calls on their replacements. Everything happens in cycles, 7 years of feast 7 years of famine, the graph doesn’t forever go in a straight diagonal upwards line. Have a bit of patience, stop being so fickle, do not ask what your club can do for you, ask what you can do for your club!
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Mess of repeat manager appointments??? WTF
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We were for-warned that this season was going to be about rebuilding, I’m as frustrated as the next person but to get stronger you must have these periods of change.
I’ve said before that you should always be aiming for promotion but when that shows it isn’t going to be the case, you have to temper your expectations.
I don’t think anybody at the club expected us to be second bottom, but if they started on this road they have to give Wellens ample time to get the thing working.
In my opinion he has gone too much down the youthful for the future route and hasn’t though enough about the here and now
We could do with one or two more experienced players in there.
The reason we have had up and down results is because we the balance of youth v experience wrong.
The organisation defensively isn’t good enough, but we haven’t had a regular back four all season.
Midfield ,the blend of players we haven’t found the right one , as we lack a ball winner.
Up front lack of movement but also lack of service are our problems.
I don’t believe in five year plans, they rarely work. It’s laudable trying to put in a young side for the future but you have to build a side for now with the young players in and around the squad. We don’t have the funds to do it that way though, so you need split thinking on that.
The directors cannot keep chucking money at the job, it is important to have the club self sufficient, the trouble is that’s not what gets the fans excited about coming to the games.
Fans want to see attacking, winning football, for some it’s the only entertainment they get after a hard week at work.
I think there needs to be as compromise, the fans need to see the board going for it a little bit, but also keeping things under control .
Whatever it is football is an entertainment business ,and if you consistently don’t offer what the people want, they will drift off and do other things!.
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I think sometimes you also have to give some leeway to individuals who react in a different way to you or i.
Some people go to the match on a Saturday with a hope of a decent game, some interest and excitement and hopefully a good result as an outcome. If the outcome is opposite to what was hoped for then a shrug of the shoulders and a hope that the next game can show the desired outcome. These people will go home and get on with their life's as normal.
You then have the other end of the spectrum, individuals who brood and worry on every turn and instance the club report, they are sat at home waiting for the match and are visibly fretting on the outcome, this person is not going to go home happy, it will ruin his weekend and most of the next week, he will be scouring the forums and any other social media outlet for snippets of info in the hope that the awful mess we are in can be corrected. His whole world and life becomes an inferior place to be because of these outcomes.
I'm sure that ALL on this forum can see some part of themselves either in the two examples or in between, its the life of a football fan.
We need to give all the space and outlet to show their particular thoughts or desires, at the end of the day we are all Rovers fans but we are all very different and we should make efforts to debate and question each others thought process but also give a certain allowance for the cranky ones the eccentric ones and the plain looneys.
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The owners are on safe journey to establish a self sustaining club that is build around many streams of income and not reliant on the owners making up the short fall . It sounds idealistic and sound business practice . BUT it comes at a price . This price is now paid by the fans by tapering their expectations of success year on year . With loan players to fill in the squads deficiencies often players who haven’t played at Efl level . Wages being the main burden on a clubs income is capped by the turnover and spending over all is spread over several transfer windows to maximise its chances of signing available out of contract players . Managers are not expected to exceed the budget or risk players being loaned out to other small clubs to keep within its budget . This model is not designed for success on the pitch but to maintain a balance sheet without the owners required to invest . DRFC are drifting slowly into obscurity with its fan base dwindling year on year. Imo 145 years of the clubs history is being ring fenced and bound up in a metaphoric chastity belt to prevent it ever getting ideas beyond its capabilities to grow . Baldwin and co are a fraud and should leave if ever the club is to get its self respect back to the fans who have seen this demise years before and the pain of the exile out of the League before . Let the supporters have a say now or watch US all walk away !! This my view only !
If I spot the facts do I win £5?
Maybe you should point out the inaccuracies instead?
Ok let’s assume that the OP is pretty accurate with this viewpoint, and I do tend to agree with most of it…
So if the OP is correct and he believes, as do many, that this is the direction that DRFC are heading for the reasons stated……….why the hell bitch about it every day?
If you are told there’s a storm brewing, and you can clearly see it on the horizon, as can all your neighbours…..why continually knock on doors offering the opinion that there’s a storm brewing when it’s bloody obvious?
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Good post Danumdon.
Myself for example have a condition that leads to dichotomous thinking and i often cannot see the grey inbetween or even if i can, often i can't accept it. For example as a black and white thinker, to me, Wellens has us 2nd bottom, playing crap football and thus by that he can't be doing his job properly.
Obviously i know there are lots of mitigating factors as to why we might be 2nd bottom but i cannot accept them. It is easier for me to process the black and white. So we're 2nd bottom after 4 months and i've enjoyed one game so far and because of this we should be looking for a new manager.
Interestingly there was a study conducted that suggested that people have more activation in one hemisphere of the brain than the other and this lent itself to what type of thinker they were or what bias (positive or negative) they saw situations with.
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The owners are on safe journey to establish a self sustaining club that is build around many streams of income and not reliant on the owners making up the short fall . It sounds idealistic and sound business practice . BUT it comes at a price . This price is now paid by the fans by tapering their expectations of success year on year . With loan players to fill in the squads deficiencies often players who haven’t played at Efl level . Wages being the main burden on a clubs income is capped by the turnover and spending over all is spread over several transfer windows to maximise its chances of signing available out of contract players . Managers are not expected to exceed the budget or risk players being loaned out to other small clubs to keep within its budget . This model is not designed for success on the pitch but to maintain a balance sheet without the owners required to invest . DRFC are drifting slowly into obscurity with its fan base dwindling year on year. Imo 145 years of the clubs history is being ring fenced and bound up in a metaphoric chastity belt to prevent it ever getting ideas beyond its capabilities to grow . Baldwin and co are a fraud and should leave if ever the club is to get its self respect back to the fans who have seen this demise years before and the pain of the exile out of the League before . Let the supporters have a say now or watch US all walk away !! This my view only !
If I spot the facts do I win £5?
Maybe you should point out the inaccuracies instead?
How about unsubstantiated suppositions?
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As football as a business is unsustainable due to so much artificial stimulus, I think it is the correct decision to try and find other revenue streams to fund the football. The team was in a false position under Moore before Christmas, which made the collapse after the Whiteman sale look all the more catastrophic. The board appointed Wellens which most people were happy with at the time, we were told it was a rebuild, we all knew it was going to be a tough, probably not this tough.
I’m not convinced by Wellens but what he’s been dealt has been awful, poor preparation and injuries. I can see signs of very slow improvement.
It’s easy to criticise, say the kit is crap etc, I don’t like the kit, I’m sure though it was designed in good faith, I’m sure every decision that is made is made in good faith, obviously there’s always an opportunity cost and sometimes you make the wrong decision.
I don’t honestly know what people expect from the owners, we are doing terribly but sometimes that happens you lose irreplaceable players and make bad calls on their replacements. Everything happens in cycles, 7 years of feast 7 years of famine, the graph doesn’t forever go in a straight diagonal upwards line. Have a bit of patience, stop being so fickle, do not ask what your club can do for you, ask what you can do for your club!
The Board appointed Butler first, when with a fair wind we could have gone top with our games in hand or not far off in early February.
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As football as a business is unsustainable due to so much artificial stimulus, I think it is the correct decision to try and find other revenue streams to fund the football. The team was in a false position under Moore before Christmas, which made the collapse after the Whiteman sale look all the more catastrophic. The board appointed Wellens which most people were happy with at the time, we were told it was a rebuild, we all knew it was going to be a tough, probably not this tough.
I’m not convinced by Wellens but what he’s been dealt has been awful, poor preparation and injuries. I can see signs of very slow improvement.
It’s easy to criticise, say the kit is crap etc, I don’t like the kit, I’m sure though it was designed in good faith, I’m sure every decision that is made is made in good faith, obviously there’s always an opportunity cost and sometimes you make the wrong decision.
I don’t honestly know what people expect from the owners, we are doing terribly but sometimes that happens you lose irreplaceable players and make bad calls on their replacements. Everything happens in cycles, 7 years of feast 7 years of famine, the graph doesn’t forever go in a straight diagonal upwards line. Have a bit of patience, stop being so fickle, do not ask what your club can do for you, ask what you can do for your club!
The Board appointed Butler first, when with a fair wind we could have gone top with our games in hand or not far off in early February.
Really, were we getting Whiteman back? Because it's when he left that results starting going tits up.
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As football as a business is unsustainable due to so much artificial stimulus, I think it is the correct decision to try and find other revenue streams to fund the football. The team was in a false position under Moore before Christmas, which made the collapse after the Whiteman sale look all the more catastrophic. The board appointed Wellens which most people were happy with at the time, we were told it was a rebuild, we all knew it was going to be a tough, probably not this tough.
I’m not convinced by Wellens but what he’s been dealt has been awful, poor preparation and injuries. I can see signs of very slow improvement.
It’s easy to criticise, say the kit is crap etc, I don’t like the kit, I’m sure though it was designed in good faith, I’m sure every decision that is made is made in good faith, obviously there’s always an opportunity cost and sometimes you make the wrong decision.
I don’t honestly know what people expect from the owners, we are doing terribly but sometimes that happens you lose irreplaceable players and make bad calls on their replacements. Everything happens in cycles, 7 years of feast 7 years of famine, the graph doesn’t forever go in a straight diagonal upwards line. Have a bit of patience, stop being so fickle, do not ask what your club can do for you, ask what you can do for your club!
I suggest you reign in the judgements then yourself, who's been fickle, as a season ticket holder, lottery goer etc i am doing my bit! Given our position in the table, i just take a different view to Osterich's sticking their head in the sand or viewing a graph and going,... ohhh it went up for 7 years, now its time for the slide... it's all Ok we can see pretty patterns in the graphs! There should be scrutiny of the workings of the club given the fall from grace over the past 11 months or so.
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As football as a business is unsustainable due to so much artificial stimulus, I think it is the correct decision to try and find other revenue streams to fund the football. The team was in a false position under Moore before Christmas, which made the collapse after the Whiteman sale look all the more catastrophic. The board appointed Wellens which most people were happy with at the time, we were told it was a rebuild, we all knew it was going to be a tough, probably not this tough.
I’m not convinced by Wellens but what he’s been dealt has been awful, poor preparation and injuries. I can see signs of very slow improvement.
It’s easy to criticise, say the kit is crap etc, I don’t like the kit, I’m sure though it was designed in good faith, I’m sure every decision that is made is made in good faith, obviously there’s always an opportunity cost and sometimes you make the wrong decision.
I don’t honestly know what people expect from the owners, we are doing terribly but sometimes that happens you lose irreplaceable players and make bad calls on their replacements. Everything happens in cycles, 7 years of feast 7 years of famine, the graph doesn’t forever go in a straight diagonal upwards line. Have a bit of patience, stop being so fickle, do not ask what your club can do for you, ask what you can do for your club!
I suggest you reign in the judgements then yourself, who's been fickle, as a season ticket holder, lottery goer etc i am doing my bit! Given our position in the table, i just take a different view to Osterich's sticking their head in the sand or viewing a graph and going,... ohhh it went up for 7 years, now its time for the slide... it's all Ok we can see pretty patterns in the graphs! There should be scrutiny of the workings of the club given the fall from grace over the past 11 months or so.
I’ve no doubt you’re a loyal supporter, we’ve probably got 2/3000 like you, Ipswich have got 10,000, Sunderland 20,000.
So what exactly should the club do to get out of this predicament? Don’t you think they are trying? Was Wellens the wrong choice? Should they sack him now? Should they put more money in and subsidise us even more? Would you hold the board directly responsible for the kit being crap? Do you know any parties who want to take over?
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As football as a business is unsustainable due to so much artificial stimulus, I think it is the correct decision to try and find other revenue streams to fund the football. The team was in a false position under Moore before Christmas, which made the collapse after the Whiteman sale look all the more catastrophic. The board appointed Wellens which most people were happy with at the time, we were told it was a rebuild, we all knew it was going to be a tough, probably not this tough.
I’m not convinced by Wellens but what he’s been dealt has been awful, poor preparation and injuries. I can see signs of very slow improvement.
It’s easy to criticise, say the kit is crap etc, I don’t like the kit, I’m sure though it was designed in good faith, I’m sure every decision that is made is made in good faith, obviously there’s always an opportunity cost and sometimes you make the wrong decision.
I don’t honestly know what people expect from the owners, we are doing terribly but sometimes that happens you lose irreplaceable players and make bad calls on their replacements. Everything happens in cycles, 7 years of feast 7 years of famine, the graph doesn’t forever go in a straight diagonal upwards line. Have a bit of patience, stop being so fickle, do not ask what your club can do for you, ask what you can do for your club!
I suggest you reign in the judgements then yourself, who's been fickle, as a season ticket holder, lottery goer etc i am doing my bit! Given our position in the table, i just take a different view to Osterich's sticking their head in the sand or yviewing a graph and going,... ohhh it went up for 7 years, now its time for the slide... it's all Ok we can see pretty patterns in the graphs! There should be scrutiny of the workings of the club given the fall from grace over the past 11 months or so.
I’ve no doubt you’re a loyal supporter, we’ve probably got 2/3000 like you, Ipswich have got 10,000, Sunderland 20,000.
So what exactly should the club do to get out of this predicament? Don’t you think they are trying? Was Wellens the wrong choice? Should they sack him now? Should they put more money in and subsidise us even more? Would you hold the board directly responsible for the kit being crap? Do you know any parties who want to take over?
Try answering some of Rugby Rovers questions. We've covered the rest previously probably 6 or 8 league games ago... not to mention after the first five league games or last April /May when I was hounded for saying we needed investment otherwise this season would be a follow on from the end of the last or even worse.., . Do you want to enlighten me and everyone to what you think should be done or we just continue the downward spiral?
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As football as a business is unsustainable due to so much artificial stimulus, I think it is the correct decision to try and find other revenue streams to fund the football. The team was in a false position under Moore before Christmas, which made the collapse after the Whiteman sale look all the more catastrophic. The board appointed Wellens which most people were happy with at the time, we were told it was a rebuild, we all knew it was going to be a tough, probably not this tough.
I’m not convinced by Wellens but what he’s been dealt has been awful, poor preparation and injuries. I can see signs of very slow improvement.
It’s easy to criticise, say the kit is crap etc, I don’t like the kit, I’m sure though it was designed in good faith, I’m sure every decision that is made is made in good faith, obviously there’s always an opportunity cost and sometimes you make the wrong decision.
I don’t honestly know what people expect from the owners, we are doing terribly but sometimes that happens you lose irreplaceable players and make bad calls on their replacements. Everything happens in cycles, 7 years of feast 7 years of famine, the graph doesn’t forever go in a straight diagonal upwards line. Have a bit of patience, stop being so fickle, do not ask what your club can do for you, ask what you can do for your club!
I suggest you reign in the judgements then yourself, who's been fickle, as a season ticket holder, lottery goer etc i am doing my bit! Given our position in the table, i just take a different view to Osterich's sticking their head in the sand or yviewing a graph and going,... ohhh it went up for 7 years, now its time for the slide... it's all Ok we can see pretty patterns in the graphs! There should be scrutiny of the workings of the club given the fall from grace over the past 11 months or so.
I’ve no doubt you’re a loyal supporter, we’ve probably got 2/3000 like you, Ipswich have got 10,000, Sunderland 20,000.
So what exactly should the club do to get out of this predicament? Don’t you think they are trying? Was Wellens the wrong choice? Should they sack him now? Should they put more money in and subsidise us even more? Would you hold the board directly responsible for the kit being crap? Do you know any parties who want to take over?
Try answering some of Rugby Rovers questions. We've covered the rest previously probably 6 or 8 league games ago... not to mention after the first five league games or last Apri/l May when I was hounded as been a doom mongerer or the like for saying we needed investment otherwise this season would be a follow on from the end of the last or even worse.., . Do you want to enlighten me and everyone to what you think should be done or we just continue the downward spiral?
I’m just going to be patient and get behind the team, see what happens in January. I’m more than happy with the board, not sure about Wellens yet but he deserves more time, I’ll see if we improve when players come back in.
Things will get worse before they get better, we’ll lose at Burton and probably get knocked out of the Cup by Mansfield now Olowu’s appeal has been chucked out but such is life.
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As football as a business is unsustainable due to so much artificial stimulus, I think it is the correct decision to try and find other revenue streams to fund the football. The team was in a false position under Moore before Christmas, which made the collapse after the Whiteman sale look all the more catastrophic. The board appointed Wellens which most people were happy with at the time, we were told it was a rebuild, we all knew it was going to be a tough, probably not this tough.
I’m not convinced by Wellens but what he’s been dealt has been awful, poor preparation and injuries. I can see signs of very slow improvement.
It’s easy to criticise, say the kit is crap etc, I don’t like the kit, I’m sure though it was designed in good faith, I’m sure every decision that is made is made in good faith, obviously there’s always an opportunity cost and sometimes you make the wrong decision.
I don’t honestly know what people expect from the owners, we are doing terribly but sometimes that happens you lose irreplaceable players and make bad calls on their replacements. Everything happens in cycles, 7 years of feast 7 years of famine, the graph doesn’t forever go in a straight diagonal upwards line. Have a bit of patience, stop being so fickle, do not ask what your club can do for you, ask what you can do for your club!
I suggest you reign in the judgements then yourself, who's been fickle, as a season ticket holder, lottery goer etc i am doing my bit! Given our position in the table, i just take a different view to Osterich's sticking their head in the sand or yviewing a graph and going,... ohhh it went up for 7 years, now its time for the slide... it's all Ok we can see pretty patterns in the graphs! There should be scrutiny of the workings of the club given the fall from grace over the past 11 months or so.
I’ve no doubt you’re a loyal supporter, we’ve probably got 2/3000 like you, Ipswich have got 10,000, Sunderland 20,000.
So what exactly should the club do to get out of this predicament? Don’t you think they are trying? Was Wellens the wrong choice? Should they sack him now? Should they put more money in and subsidise us even more? Would you hold the board directly responsible for the kit being crap? Do you know any parties who want to take over?
Try answering some of Rugby Rovers questions. We've covered the rest previously probably 6 or 8 league games ago... not to mention after the first five league games or last April /May when I was hounded for saying we needed investment otherwise this season would be a follow on from the end of the last or even worse.., . Do you want to enlighten me and everyone to what you think should be done or we just continue the downward spiral?
It seems some people accept there was need for a rebuild but are not willing to accept the risk and consequences that come with it.
Sometimes in life you have to go backwards before going forwards again.. When the slide of results came during and after Moore's departure, I fully accepted that we needed a full rebuild and I fully accepted that it would likely take more than one transfer window for any incoming manager to get things moving forward again.
Of course, we would want to avoid relegation but we can't pick and choose these things, neither the board, nor the manager could have foreseen such a prolonged run of injuries however, this season still has a long way to go.
There is no need to panic! What needs to be done is to continue to support our club whatever way you can and be patient. Allow the club and the management team to do what is necessary to execute their plan for January.
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As football as a business is unsustainable due to so much artificial stimulus, I think it is the correct decision to try and find other revenue streams to fund the football. The team was in a false position under Moore before Christmas, which made the collapse after the Whiteman sale look all the more catastrophic. The board appointed Wellens which most people were happy with at the time, we were told it was a rebuild, we all knew it was going to be a tough, probably not this tough.
I’m not convinced by Wellens but what he’s been dealt has been awful, poor preparation and injuries. I can see signs of very slow improvement.
It’s easy to criticise, say the kit is crap etc, I don’t like the kit, I’m sure though it was designed in good faith, I’m sure every decision that is made is made in good faith, obviously there’s always an opportunity cost and sometimes you make the wrong decision.
I don’t honestly know what people expect from the owners, we are doing terribly but sometimes that happens you lose irreplaceable players and make bad calls on their replacements. Everything happens in cycles, 7 years of feast 7 years of famine, the graph doesn’t forever go in a straight diagonal upwards line. Have a bit of patience, stop being so fickle, do not ask what your club can do for you, ask what you can do for your club!
I suggest you reign in the judgements then yourself, who's been fickle, as a season ticket holder, lottery goer etc i am doing my bit! Given our position in the table, i just take a different view to Osterich's sticking their head in the sand or yviewing a graph and going,... ohhh it went up for 7 years, now its time for the slide... it's all Ok we can see pretty patterns in the graphs! There should be scrutiny of the workings of the club given the fall from grace over the past 11 months or so.
I’ve no doubt you’re a loyal supporter, we’ve probably got 2/3000 like you, Ipswich have got 10,000, Sunderland 20,000.
So what exactly should the club do to get out of this predicament? Don’t you think they are trying? Was Wellens the wrong choice? Should they sack him now? Should they put more money in and subsidise us even more? Would you hold the board directly responsible for the kit being crap? Do you know any parties who want to take over?
Try answering some of Rugby Rovers questions. We've covered the rest previously probably 6 or 8 league games ago... not to mention after the first five league games or last April /May when I was hounded for saying we needed investment otherwise this season would be a follow on from the end of the last or even worse.., . Do you want to enlighten me and everyone to what you think should be done or we just continue the downward spiral?
It seems some people accept there was need for a rebuild but are not willing to accept the risk and consequences that come with it.
Sometimes in life you have to go backwards before going forwards again.. When the slide of results came during and after Moore's departure, I fully accepted that we needed a full rebuild and I fully accepted that it would likely take more than one transfer window for any incoming manager to get things moving forward again.
Of course, we would want to avoid relegation but we can't pick and choose these things, neither the board, nor the manager could have foreseen such a prolonged run of injuries however, this season still has a long way to go.
There is no need to panic! What needs to be done is to continue to support our club whatever way you can and be patient. Allow the club and the management team to do what is necessary to execute their plan for January.
Your assuming a rebuild will be successful, or not be over a much longer 5 or 10 year cycle, was our rebuild from the early 80s promotions or late 80s relegation done in a year, or indeed several incarnations of owners and managers.... a rebuild does require investment, let's hope we get some. A rebuild can mean lots of things, a quicker rebuild would be for the wealthy individual on the Board, probably in the top 50 wealthy individuals in the Yorkshire region (just an intentionally very conservative estimate i hasten to add) to say Ok sustainability and self funding is great and aspirational but following a once in a century pandemic and unprecedented period of no crowds or income from gate receipts, maybe a kick start is needed to stop free falling and unravelling all the good work done over many years, focusing on some investment on the pitch to 'sustain' our position in the league we are in. Just a thought. Maybe the rebuild would be less painful and quicker as a result, and less lost revenue from reduced crowds etc. as a consequence of elongated poor results.
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As football as a business is unsustainable due to so much artificial stimulus, I think it is the correct decision to try and find other revenue streams to fund the football. The team was in a false position under Moore before Christmas, which made the collapse after the Whiteman sale look all the more catastrophic. The board appointed Wellens which most people were happy with at the time, we were told it was a rebuild, we all knew it was going to be a tough, probably not this tough.
I’m not convinced by Wellens but what he’s been dealt has been awful, poor preparation and injuries. I can see signs of very slow improvement.
It’s easy to criticise, say the kit is crap etc, I don’t like the kit, I’m sure though it was designed in good faith, I’m sure every decision that is made is made in good faith, obviously there’s always an opportunity cost and sometimes you make the wrong decision.
I don’t honestly know what people expect from the owners, we are doing terribly but sometimes that happens you lose irreplaceable players and make bad calls on their replacements. Everything happens in cycles, 7 years of feast 7 years of famine, the graph doesn’t forever go in a straight diagonal upwards line. Have a bit of patience, stop being so fickle, do not ask what your club can do for you, ask what you can do for your club!
I suggest you reign in the judgements then yourself, who's been fickle, as a season ticket holder, lottery goer etc i am doing my bit! Given our position in the table, i just take a different view to Osterich's sticking their head in the sand or yviewing a graph and going,... ohhh it went up for 7 years, now its time for the slide... it's all Ok we can see pretty patterns in the graphs! There should be scrutiny of the workings of the club given the fall from grace over the past 11 months or so.
I’ve no doubt you’re a loyal supporter, we’ve probably got 2/3000 like you, Ipswich have got 10,000, Sunderland 20,000.
So what exactly should the club do to get out of this predicament? Don’t you think they are trying? Was Wellens the wrong choice? Should they sack him now? Should they put more money in and subsidise us even more? Would you hold the board directly responsible for the kit being crap? Do you know any parties who want to take over?
Try answering some of Rugby Rovers questions. We've covered the rest previously probably 6 or 8 league games ago... not to mention after the first five league games or last April /May when I was hounded for saying we needed investment otherwise this season would be a follow on from the end of the last or even worse.., . Do you want to enlighten me and everyone to what you think should be done or we just continue the downward spiral?
It seems some people accept there was need for a rebuild but are not willing to accept the risk and consequences that come with it.
Sometimes in life you have to go backwards before going forwards again.. When the slide of results came during and after Moore's departure, I fully accepted that we needed a full rebuild and I fully accepted that it would likely take more than one transfer window for any incoming manager to get things moving forward again.
Of course, we would want to avoid relegation but we can't pick and choose these things, neither the board, nor the manager could have foreseen such a prolonged run of injuries however, this season still has a long way to go.
There is no need to panic! What needs to be done is to continue to support our club whatever way you can and be patient. Allow the club and the management team to do what is necessary to execute their plan for January.
Your assuming a rebuild will be successful, or not be over a much longer 5 or 10 year cycle, was our rebuild from the early 80s promotions or late 80s relegation done in a year, or indeed several incarnations of owners and managers.... a rebuild does require investment, let's hope we get some. A rebuild can mean lots of things, a quicker rebuild would be for the wealthy individual on the Board, probably in the top 50 wealthy individuals in the Yorkshire region (just an intentionally very conservative estimate i hasten to add) to say Ok sustainability and self funding is great and aspirational but following a once in a century pandemic and unprecedented period of no crowds or income from gate receipts, maybe a kick start is needed to stop free falling and unravelling all the good work done over many years, focusing on some investment on the pitch to 'sustain' our position in the league we are in. Just a thought. Maybe the rebuild would be less painful and quicker as a result, and less lost revenue from reduced crowds etc. as a consequence of elongated poor results.
Not assuming anything. As long as it takes within reason however for some, immediately is not soon enough despite warnings to the contrary.
None of us know what can or what will be done in January and no matter how loud people shout, nothing will change that.
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The owners are on safe journey to establish a self sustaining club that is build around many streams of income and not reliant on the owners making up the short fall . It sounds idealistic and sound business practice . BUT it comes at a price . This price is now paid by the fans by tapering their expectations of success year on year . With loan players to fill in the squads deficiencies often players who haven’t played at Efl level . Wages being the main burden on a clubs income is capped by the turnover and spending over all is spread over several transfer windows to maximise its chances of signing available out of contract players . Managers are not expected to exceed the budget or risk players being loaned out to other small clubs to keep within its budget . This model is not designed for success on the pitch but to maintain a balance sheet without the owners required to invest . DRFC are drifting slowly into obscurity with its fan base dwindling year on year. Imo 145 years of the clubs history is being ring fenced and bound up in a metaphoric chastity belt to prevent it ever getting ideas beyond its capabilities to grow . Baldwin and co are a fraud and should leave if ever the club is to get its self respect back to the fans who have seen this demise years before and the pain of the exile out of the League before . Let the supporters have a say now or watch US all walk away !! This my view only !
If I spot the facts do I win £5?
Maybe you should point out the inaccuracies instead?
Ok let’s assume that the OP is pretty accurate with this viewpoint, and I do tend to agree with most of it…
So if the OP is correct and he believes, as do many, that this is the direction that DRFC are heading for the reasons stated……….why the hell bitch about it every day?
If you are told there’s a storm brewing, and you can clearly see it on the horizon, as can all your neighbours…..why continually knock on doors offering the opinion that there’s a storm brewing when it’s bloody obvious?
Bitching about this is my way of trying to get to the bottom of why I feel so fed up of what has happened since Grant McCann brought so close a promotion and the subsequent reversal of everything ever since . We had like many clubs some bad luck ,like a points tally left us out of the playoffs with games still to play and the being abandoned by Darren Moore and to cap it , putting another promotion push in the hands of Butler who just didn’t know how to get us over line . If this wasn't enough the clubs decision to pretend to be supporting the club when it’s was clearly obvious this isn’t t the case by its drastic budget cut and sales of key players over months prior to the end of the previous seasons but without reinvesting to bring in better prospects only loans and dodgy has beens . Ritchie Wellens a hero in all minds but with no justifiable track record was given the job , only to keep the supporters happy but even he had his hands tide behind him in the transfer market . Results do not lie .. and this season is a accumulation of many past decisions about the curbing of funds into club . It has been said by Wellens himself that it will take a few transfer windows before the club can show progress ( yet what about the first window just gone ?) It makes me believe that though relegation isn’t planned for , but is excepted as a possible consequence due to these choices by the board , one of which is NOT to breach its funding cap . I want us to show progress yet we all see that these players just to inexperienced but a year in L1 would possibly be ready in L2 . Our Home game form isn’t going to save our season . I stand by what I believe that Ritchie Wellens is learning on the job and HIS lack of managerial knowledge is starting to show how much out of his depth he really is . Imo
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No it’s an accumulation of being screwed over by 2 managers. One particularly talking of a project but decimating the team to bring in a squad of gods own chosen sons on loan. Having been backed to the hilt by the board he promptly relocated to Sheffield. With hindsight appointing Butler was a mistake, but how often has continuity proven effective through the leagues. Whoever came in had a mammoth task. We have a decent squad if it weren’t for the injuries and have started playing decent football. IMO of course
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It's not the first time I've read on this forum about wanting to become a self sufficient club and I do smile to myself when I've read those threads .
My club is a self sufficient club given the owners have never invested one single penny in to the club other than a couple of instalments when they purchased it .
When self sufficiency rides in to your club then there are a number of things to consider .
Firstly balancing the books comes before success on the field .
So even if you are sat in a challenging position in the league or indeed just enjoyed a promotion then expect your better players sold when the offers come in .
You won't become self sufficient outside of trading players with the revenue streams you create , it's impossible for ourselves even with respect higher gates and ST takeup plus greater Sky tv revenue .
Again with respect it would be almost impossible for Rovers to sustain championship football as a self sufficient club and massively difficult to challenge consistently at the top end of league one .
Player trading whilst the only way to self sufficiency also carries a 60% fail rate and those are top end stats .
Competition for unearthed gems is massively competitive , almost everyone has a data led angle too these days .
Recruiting players outside of the UK and in the European Union to cast your net further is now massively difficult unless you are purchasing players from the top flight and have international honours to under 21 level as a minimum .
I would respectively suggest that if your owners are pumping £2m in every season then you want to thank your lucky stars .
Our complained on the record about our fifth placed finish last season was a bit of a failure , I kid you not .
A failure because no real offers came in for our better players ( who they are right now is anybody's guess mind ) .
Money trumps ambition on the field , trust me it will .
Be careful what you wish for and I say that without wanting the extreme Derby and Reading type strategy either .
Football is football , fans want success over a balance sheet .
A self sufficiency model and no success on the field just won't work .
The game needs to come towards clubs such as Rovers and Barnsley rather than looking at self sufficiency .
The latest review that was announced yesterday may go some way to level up the playing field .
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When you keep dropping down the leagues you hopefully get to a point where income and expenditure balance out .
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It's not the first time I've read on this forum about wanting to become a self sufficient club and I do smile to myself when I've read those threads .
My club is a self sufficient club given the owners have never invested one single penny in to the club other than a couple of instalments when they purchased it .
When self sufficiency rides in to your club then there are a number of things to consider .
Firstly balancing the books comes before success on the field .
So even if you are sat in a challenging position in the league or indeed just enjoyed a promotion then expect your better players sold when the offers come in .
You won't become self sufficient outside of trading players with the revenue streams you create , it's impossible for ourselves even with respect higher gates and ST takeup plus greater Sky tv revenue .
Again with respect it would be almost impossible for Rovers to sustain championship football as a self sufficient club and massively difficult to challenge consistently at the top end of league one .
Player trading whilst the only way to self sufficiency also carries a 60% fail rate and those are top end stats .
Competition for unearthed gems is massively competitive , almost everyone has a data led angle too these days .
Recruiting players outside of the UK and in the European Union to cast your net further is now massively difficult unless you are purchasing players from the top flight and have international honours to under 21 level as a minimum .
I would respectively suggest that if your owners are pumping £2m in every season then you want to thank your lucky stars .
Our complained on the record about our fifth placed finish last season was a bit of a failure , I kid you not .
A failure because no real offers came in for our better players ( who they are right now is anybody's guess mind ) .
Money trumps ambition on the field , trust me it will .
Be careful what you wish for and I say that without wanting the extreme Derby and Reading type strategy either .
Football is football , fans want success over a balance sheet .
A self sufficiency model and no success on the field just won't work .
The game needs to come towards clubs such as Rovers and Barnsley rather than looking at self sufficiency .
The latest review that was announced yesterday may go some way to level up the playing field .
The aim was to become self sufficient should things go tits up with the owners however, the owners continue to run the club on a sustainable basis, choosing to continue to support the club with additional funding year on year.
There's a difference between self sufficiency and self sustainability. We incurr losses but we do not rely on external funding and subsequent debt.
Broadly agree with your points though.
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Tyke, with respect, would you mind putting in a call to our Board, because they obviously still think sustainability is working!
Your post is a breath of fresh air. Thanks.
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Yet still put their hands in their own pockets thankfully
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We have gone from aiming for the stars to aiming just to tread water-aim low end up even lower.
I know we can’t afford to go for big signing but it would be nice to be in the game now and again, when good players move clubs. Part of rebuilding has to be improving. Let’s hope this is as bad as it gets.
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Tyke, with respect, would you mind putting in a call to our Board, because they obviously still think sustainability is working!
Your post is a breath of fresh air. Thanks.
Alan I'm sure none of us want to see our clubs run like Reading , Derby County and Wednesday and I certainly don't at Barnsley even though our owners have a combined wealth of £9bn .
The facts are that football is a risk and reward industry and there's no escaping that .
Yes there are the abject failures as I've mentioned but there are success stories too such as AFC Bournemouth and Brentford , two clubs who we both played regularly in the old fourth division back in the day .
I'll say something else too Alan people who get involved in football clubs do so with their eyes wide open and understand the pitfalls .
Self sufficiency has it's place don't get me wrong but in my opinion and with respect it's fits Exeter City , Forest Green etc and will work between league two and a fleeting season or two in league one .
If you want to challenge higher over a sustained period then unfortunately it won't work .
We are testament to that .
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I have been supporting Rovers since 1973' I am used to disappointment and underachieving !
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I have been supporting Rovers since 1973' I am used to disappointment and underachieving !
Extreme fine lines in football , the most important goal ever scored by a Man Utd player in the relatively modern era was the one scored by Mark Robins in that third round cup tie against Forest in 1990 .
Without that Fergie was a gonner and I don't care what anyone says at Man Utd he was out had they lost that cup tie .
Who saw Leicester City winning the PL ?
A one time season when everything just fell in to place .
A bit like ourselves in 97 and last season .
Rovers will have the good times again , will knock a PL team out of the FA cup and possibly get promoted to the championship .
Season's such as we are both having are tough but it's never forever .
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“ Season's such as we are both having are tough but it's never forever .”
Exactly it.
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The owners are on safe journey to establish a self sustaining club that is build around many streams of income and not reliant on the owners making up the short fall . It sounds idealistic and sound business practice . BUT it comes at a price . This price is now paid by the fans by tapering their expectations of success year on year . With loan players to fill in the squads deficiencies often players who haven’t played at Efl level . Wages being the main burden on a clubs income is capped by the turnover and spending over all is spread over several transfer windows to maximise its chances of signing available out of contract players . Managers are not expected to exceed the budget or risk players being loaned out to other small clubs to keep within its budget . This model is not designed for success on the pitch but to maintain a balance sheet without the owners required to invest . DRFC are drifting slowly into obscurity with its fan base dwindling year on year. Imo 145 years of the clubs history is being ring fenced and bound up in a metaphoric chastity belt to prevent it ever getting ideas beyond its capabilities to grow . Baldwin and co are a fraud and should leave if ever the club is to get its self respect back to the fans who have seen this demise years before and the pain of the exile out of the League before . Let the supporters have a say now or watch US all walk away !! This my view only !
Yaawnn.
Sorry, did you say something I shouldn’t have missed?
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Tyke, with respect, would you mind putting in a call to our Board, because they obviously still think sustainability is working!
Your post is a breath of fresh air. Thanks.
Alan I'm sure none of us want to see our clubs run like Reading , Derby County and Wednesday and I certainly don't at Barnsley even though our owners have a combined wealth of £9bn .
The facts are that football is a risk and reward industry and there's no escaping that .
Yes there are the abject failures as I've mentioned but there are success stories too such as AFC Bournemouth and Brentford , two clubs who we both played regularly in the old fourth division back in the day .
I'll say something else too Alan people who get involved in football clubs do so with their eyes wide open and understand the pitfalls .
Self sufficiency has it's place don't get me wrong but in my opinion and with respect it's fits Exeter City , Forest Green etc and will work between league two and a fleeting season or two in league one .
If you want to challenge higher over a sustained period then unfortunately it won't work .
We are testament to that .
Spot on. I accept this though.
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I agree with the club being run sustainable but they have tried to do it when we needed to sign 10 players it should have been done when we had a team that was fit to start the season