How this forum is damaging tclub

[Filo]

It`s not the forum that`s the problem, it`s the users that don`t engage their brains before posting, there`s nothing wrong with debate and differing opinions, if those opinions are backed up with something resembling facts! To post things like \"I don`t like Mckay\" without backing up why you don`t like him, (probably because they can`t pin any wrong doing on him) is unreasoned and plain stupid, they`re basing their opinions on a story by a tabloid which was proved untrue hence the reason Mckay sued the tabloid for damages in the High Court

Does that include moderators as well?

Moderators (except me)

And bald headed antagonist`s are all included!

How much cock have you had to suck this month mate?

Plenty! not mastered the art of swallowing yet mind, maybe you could give me a few tips

[Sheepskin Stu]

It`s not the forum that`s the problem, it`s the users that don`t engage their brains before posting, there`s nothing wrong with debate and differing opinions, if those opinions are backed up with something resembling facts! To post things like \"I don`t like Mckay\" without backing up why you don`t like him, (probably because they can`t pin any wrong doing on him) is unreasoned and plain stupid, they`re basing their opinions on a story by a tabloid which was proved untrue hence the reason Mckay sued the tabloid for damages in the High Court

Does that include moderators as well?

Moderators (except me)

And bald headed antagonist`s are all included!

How much cock have you had to suck this month mate?

Plenty! not mastered the art of swallowing yet mind, maybe you could give me a few tips

^^^ Nasty beast!

[jucyberry]

First rule of thumb in life is that you can't please everyone all the time..Second is life would be little more than a sterile vaccum if you could..Nothing would ever alter or improve..Questioning is never bad, peurile , immature point scoring however adds nothing to the equasion..

In an internet free world men in pubs over a few pints would still act the same way, say the same things..They would however just be comments soon forgotten as other subjects were discussed.

Now however the thoughts are out there in black and white to be read, re read and fulminated over, words typed in anger and frustration cannot be easily deleted.

Red Baron makes the most salient point I think, whilst the forum is read by a couple of thousand at times of high volume, out of the average thousands that follow Rovers both online and at matches there are perhaps at best just under a dozen who post nothing but negativity. Now, that hardly makes it a huge negative fan base does it?

Perhaps a little perspective is needed, both by JR as he reads this and Brian..Me Im neither half a glass full or empty, I see the glass just as being in the middle.. If that makes any sense at all?

Best post on the topic so far!!

Agreed - excellent JB

Brian - I have also often had similar thoughts to you, despite being a relative newcomer having only been a supporter since 1962. Sometimes (like now actually) it means I post and visit a bit less. But the site would be much the poorer without you and your views.

I agree with JB that JR, great man that he is and great things that he has done, is probably not doing the best market research of his successful business life if he takes the views of a small number on here as representative, or even important. Some are probably not even Rovers supporters anyway. The huge numbers that come out is support of JR everytime a rallying thread appears are more significant.

Also Brian, note the point well-made by others that the board is not the entirety of VSC and its activities. Please don't leave me to become the oldest exiled Brian on this board

By the way JB, as a mathematician I have to point out that the glass is neither half-empty nor half-full - it is exactly twice as big as it needs to be

Ah there, now you've done it Brian, you've gone and lost me.. I'm a self confessed numerical dunderhead..

[Mr1Croft]

What frustrates me is those who post without any kind of evidence as to what they're saying.  If you're going to state something provide some stats or the like to back it up, instead of the usual rubbish such as \"Saunders hasn't improved us\" when the evidence is clear that he has both in opinion and in hard cold statistical facts.  Sadly as I've said a few times there are too many fans and local journalists, blog writers who are so focussed on being proven right I think they'd actually be enjoying relegation.  That in itself is very childish.

As for someones comments on age, that's complete a rubbish.  A teenager has as much entitlement to making a point as someone who is 80 provided their point is stated in a way that makes sense with real evidence.

I agree with that, putting forward stats (as they can be intepreted in many ways) makes for a very well reasoned debate rather tha making statements based on your own imagination.

But that said madmcik and Viva Rovers are to mention a few who put forward stats (in madmick's case) and a well reasoned arguement and discussion (by Viva), they didn't seemingly state we are going down and they will enjoy it when it happened (to say that was the focus of Viva Rovers [strike]blog[/strike] website is an insult). Although I will admit in madmick's case he was sometimes too arrogant and did put forward stats that weren't even true on a few occasions (not to mention his suppposed alias') but both were constantly abused for not being supporters of Saunders who weren't afraid to say where they thought the fault lied, and how it could have been improved. Donnybob is another poster who seemingly wrote very long posts that were well reasoned and well thought out, he no longer posts because there isn't an arguement anymore, anyone who states their mind about Saunders or McKay (judging by the 3 examples; regardless of how they state it) they are called non-supporters of the club and to take their opinions elsewhere where no one at the club can hear them...

As I've said I (like many others here) had my concerns and I expressed them and don't want to dwell on the matter any longer...

[dickos1]

Everyone is entitled to their own views and opinions. The only thing that gets to me is comments like \"I hope we get relegated\" or \"I'm never going again while McKay is here\" that is not someone's opinion, it's just something a doncaster rovers fan shouldn't be saying. As is calling John Ryan an idiot.
People are saying things that are a disgrace and then trying to justify it by saying its their opinion and it's a forum so I can say what I like..
We can discuss all day the rights and wrongs of what's happened this season, (although I do believe we should leave it until the summer) but to start spouting nonsense which could jeapordise certain things, well i just think it shouldn't happen on here.

[nice one rovers]

Graingrover, just a question before you go, Is your spelling of \"club\" a Yorkshire spelling , or a typo?

[Spud]

Every club in the league has, I daresay, an online forum in some form or other. To say this forum is in some way responsible for the club's woes is to misplace the blame. \"Fans\" could always use the traditional methods of voicing displeasure in the past and they continue to do so today - it's just that the internet gives their grumbling a more permanent vehicle.

It seems to me that the problem is how loudly the naysayers can be heard at any given club and whether the moaning is justified. The simple facts are these: Doncaster does not deserve to have a Championship football club because the town does not get behind the team in sufficient numbers; and, in common with the 'sleeping giant' clubs whose fans believe their club is currently well below its true station, we also have a very high proportion of grumblers who sit and moan all the time about pretty much everything. The latter is a particularly frustrating fact because we as Rovers fans are bloody lucky to have had these last ten years and the misery that went before that has been compensated for several-fold.

At matches I have the misfortune of sitting in front of some real whinging bas**rds in Block 10 and it saddens me to sit in a family area where kids are learning the trade of turning up and slating everything that happens in front of them. The same disappointment applies when I read tirades on this forum against the most minor of issues about the way the club is run.

However, my disappointment in all of that is something that doesn't put me off loving the club, going to matches or reading the forum. I resent the grumblers but I don't resent the experience of being a Rovers fan because the rewards have been great. I do however expect more of our directors and chairman and for them to rise above this crap. You don't go into that job to be universally popular because life just isn't that simple. I also expect more of fans who think a passive aggressive approach is going to alter anything that the keyboard warriors on this forum say and do. The \"I'm not angry just disappointed\" approach will just mean the absence of one more positive voice and, as a result, a higher proportion of the negative.

I love JR for doing whatever it takes to keep this club at the highest possible level. He has given more than any fan in the club's history. But I do not accept that the moaners and grumblers are responsible for directors walking away or for JR losing any heart. Rather I think that when it seems like the club is on the verge of falling backwards for the first time in a decade, the bilious background minority is just an easy thing to blame.

[Spud]

Graingrover, just a question before you go, Is your spelling of \"club\" a Yorkshire spelling , or a typo?

Missing apostrophe, and they call the youth of today illiterate  

[Adam]

I'll say this one last time.

People can be negative. People don't have to like John Ryan. People don't have to like Willie McKay. People don't have to like the way the club is run. But respect that they are as much of a person as you and can have a different opinion to the majority.

No one, as far as I'm aware, is starting up a \"*** off John Ryan\" parade and no one is being excessively negative - if they are then that is called \"trolling\". Google it up, old people.

If everyone agreed on everything life would be boring. In any case, if John Ryan or any member of any board or anyone associated with Doncaster Rovers Football Club take anything that is said on the Internet to heart then they need a reality check. What would happen in all the footballers that are on Twitter took everything people said to them to heart? They'd probably quit and kill themselves. But they don't, because they're intelligent people.

Open your eyes people.

For clarification, because I know what you cynical ***** are like, I do not think John Ryan is an idiot and have no bad things to say about his contribution to the football club and town alike over the past few years. I do, however, feel negatively towards the appointment of Willie McKay and his exact role within the football club and fear it could endanger us in the long term even if it benefits us short term.

And breathe.

[RobTheRover]

I am another long standing fan (since 1974) who has also very recently cancelled my subscription standing order to the VSC. Why? For all the reasons Brian has alluded too but also I was dismayed by the actions and reactions of some of the VSC hierarchy leading too and following to the sad demise of the excellent Viva Rovers site.
I wholeheartedly support the club, JR, WM and will continue to do so but this forum and the VSC is no longer what I signed up to!!

Sorry Paul, but that is just wrong.  I am unaware of any actions by anyone connected to the VSC which led to the demise of Viva Rovers (and in fact know of at least one action designed to protect him), and certainly no reaction after Glen decided to pull the plug.  Glen's decision was based on the grief and personal abuse he got from his articles on Viva Rovers, if I understand his statement properly, which can in no way be attributable to the VSC.  I think an apology is in order.

[hoolahoop]

I'll say this one last time.

People can be negative. People don't have to like John Ryan. People don't have to like Willie McKay. People don't have to like the way the club is run. But respect that they are as much of a person as you and can have a different opinion to the majority.

No one, as far as I'm aware, is starting up a \"*** off John Ryan\" parade and no one is being excessively negative - if they are then that is called \"trolling\". Google it up, old people.

If everyone agreed on everything life would be boring. In any case, if John Ryan or any member of any board or anyone associated with Doncaster Rovers Football Club take anything that is said on the Internet to heart then they need a reality check. What would happen in all the footballers that are on Twitter took everything people said to them to heart? They'd probably quit and kill themselves. But they don't, because they're intelligent people.

Open your eyes people.

For clarification, because I know what you cynical ***** are like, I do not think John Ryan is an idiot and have no bad things to say about his contribution to the football club and town alike over the past few years. I do, however, feel negatively towards the appointment of Willie McKay and his exact role within the football club and fear it could endanger us in the long term even if it benefits us short term.

And breathe.

Thank you Adam , you saved me the time of writing a long post. I am with you on virtually every comment.
Just one slight issue on a general basis, those that have espoused the supposed thoughts of a 'questionable' majority ought to supply their beloved stats to back this argument up.
Incidentally, I have no time for folk who want to see us be relegated  to somehow in their weirdly wired-up brains be proven correct in their assertions. I can't get my head why anyone would want to see the club fail, I've been supporting this club since 67/8 and these (as bad as they currently are) are and have been the best of times.

[Rovin Reporter]

Football fans through out the land criticise there club and don't go on to throw their.
dummy out of the pram. If you believe John Ryan follows what we think then he would
not have lasted this long . The vast amount of people in Donaster could not give a flying fcuk for the club
but he does , along with the few of us who put our money  each season. The Vsc is. Just a talking shop and. Has. No influence on anything the club does .  Keep your money and save yourself from from anymore guilt . Bye

[VivaRovers]

...but also I was dismayed by the actions and reactions of some of the VSC hierarchy leading too and following to the sad demise of the excellent Viva Rovers site. I wholeheartedly support the club, JR, WM and will continue to do so but this forum and the VSC is no longer what I signed up to!!

Sorry Paul, but that is just wrong.  I am unaware of any actions by anyone connected to the VSC which led to the demise of Viva Rovers (and in fact know of at least one action designed to protect him), and certainly no reaction after Glen decided to pull the plug.  Glen's decision was based on the grief and personal abuse he got from his articles on Viva Rovers, if I understand his statement properly, which can in no way be attributable to the VSC.  I think an apology is in order.

The bit highlighted in bold there is certainly news to me, so I would be delighted to know what that is and what exactly I was being protected from.

Though it was by no means the main reason, having board members from the supporters' co-operative suggest to me as a non-member what I should and shouldn't write on my own independent site certainly had a bearing on my decision to shut the site in the end Rob, contributing as it does to the site not really being so much fun to do anymore.

In terms of reaction to me closing the site I think Pacman is referring to the apparent glee and satisfaction in Berkshire's posts on a thread about the site closing on here last month.

So an apology probably isn't in order, well not from Pacman anyway.

[RobTheRover]

I'll have to go back and check on posts from Berkshire, but as I've pointed out before (and in fact its in the forum rules) the content of posts is the responsibility of the poster.  Steve's posts (if they did come across as that) are his views, and are not meant to represent an official VSC statement.

I'll speak to you some other time about the other matter.

[VivaRovers]

I'd quite like to know about it now Rob to be honest, if the VSC are bigging up what they've done on my behalf I'd quite like to know what exactly that is. Whack it on a PM or something if there's a reason it can't go on here

[RobTheRover]

No one is bigging anything up.  Wish I'd never said owt now.

I'd rather speak with you about it.  Give me a call tomorrow if you get 5 mins.

[mjdgreg]

I think this forum is better off without the likes of graingrover. He seemed like he had a big downer on anyone under the age of 50 and that because they weren't old their views should command less respect. He is obviously from an older generation that doesn't believe in questioning the establishment. For example I bet he is a big supporter of the Royal family.

This forum needs to encourage new younger blood and not try to talk down to them and bully them if they are perceived to be 'negative'. Who are going to be the supporters of tomorrow when all you oldies have died off?

The modern way is to question those in authority and not blindly follow what they espouse. The world is a much better place for this now. So let's have a little less doffing of the cap and tugging of the forelock and use our brains to question things rather than just roll over like unintelligent sycophants.

This forum is much the worse (and a lot more boring) for the loss of intelligent posters like Donnybob and madmick. Some on here argue that the 'negative' posters should put up stats etc to flesh out their arguments. This made me piss my pants laughing. madmick did exactly that with his stats and business models etc and Donnybob put together by far the most intelligent well reasoned posts on this forum. Both were abused relentlessly and have seen fit to depart . it is this forum's loss not theirs.

[VivaRovers]

No one is bigging anything up.  Wish I'd never said owt now.

I'd rather speak with you about it.  Give me a call tomorrow if you get 5 mins.

Don't take it personally Rob as I do like you, but I'd rather not. Besides I've not got your number (new phone). Just whack whatever it is on a PM or an email,I'm just intrigued as to what it is that's all

[silent majority]

I think this forum is better off without the likes of graingrover. He seemed like he had a big downer on anyone under the age of 50 and that because they weren't old their views should command less respect. He is obviously from an older generation that doesn't believe in questioning the establishment. For example I bet he is a big supporter of the Royal family.

This forum needs to encourage new younger blood and not try to talk down to them and bully them if they are perceived to be 'negative'. Who are going to be the supporters of tomorrow when all you oldies have died off?

The modern way is to question those in authority and not blindly follow what they espouse. The world is a much better place for this now. So let's have a little less doffing of the cap and tugging of the forelock and use our brains to question things rather than just roll over like unintelligent sycophants.

This forum is much the worse (and a lot more boring) for the loss of intelligent posters like Donnybob and madmick. Some on here argue that the 'negative' posters should put up stats etc to flesh out their arguments. This made me piss my pants laughing. madmick did exactly that with his stats and business models etc and Donnybob put together by far the most intelligent well reasoned posts on this forum. Both were abused relentlessly and have seen fit to depart . it is this forum's loss not theirs.

Come off it Mick we know this is you.

Self congratulation is not in order here.

[Mr1Croft]

I'll have to go back and check on posts from Berkshire, but as I've pointed out before (and in fact its in the forum rules) the content of posts is the responsibility of the poster.  Steve's posts (if they did come across as that) are his views, and are not meant to represent an official VSC statement.

I'll speak to you some other time about the other matter.

Which is why I reccomended mods have 2 accounts in my post to the VSC last week, because the intention of the VSC Board Members on this forum may not be to represent the VSC Board opinion, but niether can you blame individuals for taking that matter. The VSC Board members are elected officials and all VSC board members must adhere the principles of Collective Responsibility and must not act in any way to bring the VSC into disrepute.

It's fair enough to say we have to follow a certain set of Forum Rules and that Board members can post their general opinion, but when it is (in this case) considered as a witty comment it can't be seen in a good light because the the Board Members are elected to represent their members' views, and not their own. This forum has become the main focus of the VSC (whether intentionally or not) and people come on the forum for the news, and not the news tab provided, so anything that is not cleary clarified an opinion outside of their duties to the Co-operative people will take what the Board members say as a representation of the VSC.

Of course Board Members are allowed to have an opinion, but they (above all) should take a more relaxed approach of expressing them as they are seen as the representatives of the members, and elected for the best interest of those members.

[Adam]

I'll have to go back and check on posts from Berkshire, but as I've pointed out before (and in fact its in the forum rules) the content of posts is the responsibility of the poster.  Steve's posts (if they did come across as that) are his views, and are not meant to represent an official VSC statement.

I'll speak to you some other time about the other matter.

Which is why I reccomended mods have 2 accounts in my post to the VSC last week, because the intention of the VSC Board Members on this forum may not be to represent the VSC Board opinion, but niether can you blame individuals for taking that matter. The VSC Board members are elected officials and all VSC board members must adhere the principles of Collective Responsibility and must not act in any way to bring the VSC into disrepute.

It's fair enough to say we have to follow a certain set of Forum Rules and that Board members can post their general opinion, but when it is (in this case) considered as a witty comment it can't be seen in a good light because the the Board Members are elected to represent their members' views, and not their own. This forum has become the main focus of the VSC (whether intentionally or not) and people come on the forum for the news, and not the news tab provided, so anything that is not cleary clarified an opinion outside of their duties to the Co-operative people will take what the Board members say as a representation of the VSC.

Of course Board Members are allowed to have an opinion, but they (above all) should take a more relaxed approach of expressing them as they are seen as the representatives of the members, and elected for the best interest of those members.

This will be my last post as I've been contacted about my foul language - foul language which is ever present amongst other members of the forum however they do not get punished. Why? I think you know.

Either way. Anyone who thinks that this forum speaks for the majority is a male reproductive organ. End of argument.

You're all conceited individuals with nothing better to do than find somebody to blame. Grow. Up.

[DRNaith]

That's funny, other forum members haven't yet used the \"he started it\" stance.  

Others have been contacted and will continue to be so when foul language is used.

[Filo]

I'll have to go back and check on posts from Berkshire, but as I've pointed out before (and in fact its in the forum rules) the content of posts is the responsibility of the poster.  Steve's posts (if they did come across as that) are his views, and are not meant to represent an official VSC statement.

I'll speak to you some other time about the other matter.

Which is why I reccomended mods have 2 accounts in my post to the VSC last week, because the intention of the VSC Board Members on this forum may not be to represent the VSC Board opinion, but niether can you blame individuals for taking that matter. The VSC Board members are elected officials and all VSC board members must adhere the principles of Collective Responsibility and must not act in any way to bring the VSC into disrepute.

It's fair enough to say we have to follow a certain set of Forum Rules and that Board members can post their general opinion, but when it is (in this case) considered as a witty comment it can't be seen in a good light because the the Board Members are elected to represent their members' views, and not their own. This forum has become the main focus of the VSC (whether intentionally or not) and people come on the forum for the news, and not the news tab provided, so anything that is not cleary clarified an opinion outside of their duties to the Co-operative people will take what the Board members say as a representation of the VSC.

Of course Board Members are allowed to have an opinion, but they (above all) should take a more relaxed approach of expressing them as they are seen as the representatives of the members, and elected for the best interest of those members.

This will be my last post as I've been contacted about my foul language - foul language which is ever present amongst other members of the forum however they do not get punished. Why? I think you know.

Either way. Anyone who thinks that this forum speaks for the majority is a male reproductive organ. End of argument.

You're all conceited individuals with nothing better to do than find somebody to blame. Grow. Up.

Wrong!, others have been contacted, by pm, like you have, the majority have not made a song and dance about it and got on with posting, a few have thrown the teddy out and wandered into the sunset! Why? only they know!


Just another observation, why are you getting upset over comments made to you on an internet forum? I thought it was your belief that JR and his former directors should rise above that sort of thing, how come it does n`t apply to yourself? :cry:

[sedwardsdrfc]

This will be my last post as I've been contacted about my foul language - foul language which is ever present amongst other members of the forum however they do not get punished. Why? I think you know.

chill the f**k out dont let this shit effect you

[jucyberry]

Perhaps the thing to do, when we finally migrate over to the new site is draw a line under all this nonsense and start again..Everyone on a level playing field because this is now getting stupid..

This is a forum, it's not a matter of life or death , yet some are acting as if they are facing the unravelling of life as we know it.
It doesn't matter if you have one post to your name or ten thousand and one, this is one time that size really doesn't matter, infact a large postal quota might signify that we have far too much time on our hands..  ( I know at the moment I have anyway)

My english teacher always drummed into us that it was quality, not quantity that really mattered .

People are throwing big girly strops left , right and center, as has been said on other threads everything decends into chaos within a couple of posts..

Perhaps we need some big muscly mums to bang their little boys heads together....

[PACMAN]

I am another long standing fan (since 1974) who has also very recently cancelled my subscription standing order to the VSC. Why? For all the reasons Brian has alluded too but also I was dismayed by the actions and reactions of some of the VSC hierarchy leading too and following to the sad demise of the excellent Viva Rovers site.
I wholeheartedly support the club, JR, WM and will continue to do so but this forum and the VSC is no longer what I signed up to!!

Sorry Paul, but that is just wrong.  I am unaware of any actions by anyone connected to the VSC which led to the demise of Viva Rovers (and in fact know of at least one action designed to protect him), and certainly no reaction after Glen decided to pull the plug.  Glen's decision was based on the grief and personal abuse he got from his articles on Viva Rovers, if I understand his statement properly, which can in no way be attributable to the VSC.  I think an apology is in order.

Sorry Rob but I've spoken to Glen and can assure you absolutely that no apology is due. I don't want to rake up any bad feeling on here and give the doom mongers who inhabit any more bullets so PM me.

[Old Popsider]

Okay, for what it's worth I'd like to add my tupennyworth. I think I can lay claim to probably being one of the older posters here, started my very long relationship with Doncaster Rovers at Belle Vue in the season we last played Leeds United in 195? (Let's see who knows the year)

I've read this thread and am a little bemused at some of the things that have been said. When all said and done a forum is a place for discussion of subjects that are of interest to the contributors and others who may interested in joining in the debate.

I don't intend dissecting what's been posted, but, would just like to say that Grangerover is as entitled to his opinion as anyone else without being the subject of some of the dubious postings that have gone on.

Several times I've read something on this forum that I've strongly disagreed with but kept my hands off the keyboard because too much can be said in haste, and it would have been all too easy to add fuel to the fire.

Those who know history will be well aware that a certain person was killed off after taking part in a forum debate in ancient Rome. That is what has happened in a literal sense to Grangerover.

Please people, engage brain in a little thoughtfulness before employing your hands to do some rather debatable keyboard character assassination. After all, if people go the same way as Grangerover then this place will become populated by just tumbleweed.................

[VivaRovers]

I don't appear to have had a PM or an email yet Rob. When you have a minute, please whizz either over