No idea at all !!!!

[hoolahoop]

We've picked up and scraped points when we've been poor - that's the general consensus of this thread - but is that not the sign of a good team when you pick up points and don't play well?

Indeed it is but the supporters expect at least some outstanding performances don't they ?

[dickos1]

Did Sheffield Wednesday get automatic promotion last year? Did they lose 5-1 to Stevenage, but still gain auto promotion?
The answer to both is yes. Utter nonsense to suggest teams that concede 4 goals don't get promoted absolute drivel.

[JonWallsend]

Did Sheffield Wednesday get automatic promotion last year? Did they lose 5-1 to Stevenage, but still gain auto promotion?
The answer to both is yes. Utter nonsense to suggest teams that concede 4 goals don't get promoted absolute drivel.

Yes but the defeat was away, not home. They changed their manager 15 games from the end of the season after a massive home win over their local rivals and the deficiencies in their squad are presently being laid bare in the next league up.
However as you said- it is absolute drivel to suggest you can't concede 4 and be promoted.
A near miss for us would suit me fine this season.

[the vicar]

Teams that Get bet at home 1-3 and 1-4 in the norm
Dont Get automatic promotion slots do they

Play offs it is Then

so how did southampton go up as champions last season twice they got beat 5-0

[dickos1]

It was away, but we wouldn't get beat away from home like that.
I bet our points tally is better than Wednesday's was at this stage last year.
We have a small squad and when we have players missing we struggle, most of us would've settled for top half finish this year so where we are now is remarkable.

[JonWallsend]

It was away, but we wouldn't get beat away from home like that.
I bet our points tally is better than Wednesday's was at this stage last year.
We have a small squad and when we have players missing we struggle, most of us would've settled for top half finish this year so where we are now is remarkable.

Definitely. We're far exceeding my expectations.

[Dutch Uncle]

I also seem to remember Norwich conceding 7 at home to Colchester(?) on an opening day in league 1 and going to to win the league.

[The L J Monk]

I bet our points tally is better than Wednesday's was at this stage last year.

Nope. They had 43 points after 22 games.

40 points from 22 games would have been good enough for 6th at this stage last season. 11 points off top.

[Bentley Bullet]

Coventry fans were singing 'top of the league? you're having a laugh" and It's never been more appropriate. I hope I'm wrong in thinking we've simply been dead lucky most of the time this season, and that's the reason why we're so high up the league.

I take no pleasure in saying we are the worst second placed team I've ever seen.
No pleasure at all.

[MachoMadness]

You can't be lucky for 20-odd games and get to a point off the top of the league. No team is that lucky, it just doesn't make any sense at all to put it down to luck. f**king hell, isn't it the job of other teams to tell us how we're shite and only on top because of luck? Why are our own fans doing it?

[hoolahoop]

You can't be lucky for 20-odd games and get to a point off the top of the league. No team is that lucky, it just doesn't make any sense at all to put it down to luck. f***ing hell, isn't it the job of other teams to tell us how we're shite and only on top because of luck? Why are our own fans doing it?

Because Bentley Bullet is right..........we are /were the worst top of the league team I've seen at this level but this level is poor.
The Coventry supporters were quite correct.......they were streets ahead of us all over the park yesterday and it hurts ALOT.

[BillyStubbsTears]

See the problem is Hoola that your comment, and Bentley's effectively shut down debate.

Regardless of anyone else's opinion, if the response is "Aye, yeah, we'll we're near the top because this league is shit." then there's no further discussion to be had.

There is no objective way of assessing why the claim that this league is shit should be considered accurate or inaccurate.

Personally, I think the claim is crap - most divisions have a very similar overall quality from one season to the next, with oscillations, sure, as the quality of the teams exiting the division doesn't match perfectly with the quality of those entering. But you're only talking about 30% of the sides there, even if every one of the exiting sides were comprehensively better than every one of the incoming sides (and that is quite demonstrably NOT the case), that would not change the overall quality of the division by a world-changing amount. You would need some mechanism to occur whereby, on average, the sides that remain in the division also lose quality over time. I know of no process by which that should have happened monotone ally to make L1 now so much worse than L1 5 years ago (when, recall, we regularly struggled against some middling opposition at home for the first half of the season...)



You will say that the division has got far worse since then. Maybe yes. Maybe no. Maybe there's some rose-tinted stuff going on.

I'll go for Occam's Razor again. Given that I see no mechanism for that change to occur, I suspect it's more likely to be the rose tints.

[RedJ]

We could have been beat 10 nil it wouldn't take away from the fact we are flying at moment and its just a bad day at the office! In truth, todays result will do more good than anything in the long run

We haven't been great all season but somehow we have picked up points! This league is poor and so is our squad! Ridicule this post all you want but I haven't missed a game in all competitions for 7 years and today was the most incomplete and pathetic performance that I've seen since Yeovil at home with Penney in charge! We need to decide in which direction we are to go from here! If the choice is forward we need big investment if not then goodbye playoffs be happy for the points we have got because survival will be the only aim!

Sure you went to Barnsley away or Leeds at home last season?

[timdrfc]

You can't be lucky for 20-odd games and get to a point off the top of the league. No team is that lucky, it just doesn't make any sense at all to put it down to luck. f***ing hell, isn't it the job of other teams to tell us how we're shite and only on top because of luck? Why are our own fans doing it?

Spot on some of our fans continue to amaze me with there opinions !

[BillyStubbsTears]

I once played for a team in the Dearne Valley Sunday League.

One match we got arseholed by the opposition. Their players were saying we were shit all during the first half. Their manager were shouting that we were shit. Their fans were shouting that we were shit.

Came off at half time and our manager said, "You're f**king shit your lot."

Funnily enough, he were a Donny fan.

[Rovin Reporter]

We've picked up and scraped points when we've been poor - that's the general consensus of this thread - but is that not the sign of a good team when you pick up points and don't play well?

I will take the points how ever they come its a results awarded League and you don't get points for artistic Merritt .

[hoolahoop]

See the problem is Hoola that your comment, and Bentley's effectively shut down debate.

Regardless of anyone else's opinion, if the response is "Aye, yeah, we'll we're near the top because this league is shit." then there's no further discussion to be had.

There is no objective way of assessing why the claim that this league is shit should be considered accurate or inaccurate.

Personally, I think the claim is crap - most divisions have a very similar overall quality from one season to the next, with oscillations, sure, as the quality of the teams exiting the division doesn't match perfectly with the quality of those entering. But you're only talking about 30% of the sides there, even if every one of the exiting sides were comprehensively better than every one of the incoming sides (and that is quite demonstrably NOT the case), that would not change the overall quality of the division by a world-changing amount. You would need some mechanism to occur whereby, on average, the sides that remain in the division also lose quality over time. I know of no process by which that should have happened monotone ally to make L1 now so much worse than L1 5 years ago (when, recall, we regularly struggled against some middling opposition at home for the first half of the season...)



You will say that the division has got far worse since then. Maybe yes. Maybe no. Maybe there's some rose-tinted stuff going on.

I'll go for Occam's Razor again. Given that I see no mechanism for that change to occur, I suspect it's more likely to be the rose tints.

Not at all hence your reply to the observations that both Bentley and myself agree on. If you look at the opposition, size, history and financial clout of teams in this Division 5 years ago ; I believe you will agree that this year's opposition is the weaker.

2007/8 Division 1...........

1   Swansea City    ....................NOW  PREM.
2    Nottingham Forest ..............ESTAB. T2   
3    Doncaster Rovers    
4    Carlisle United    
5    Leeds United    ....................ESTAB. T2
6    Southend United    
7    Brighton and Hove A ...........ESTAB. T2   
8    Oldham Athletic    
9    Northampton Town    
10    Huddersfield Town ...............NOW   T2   
11    Tranmere Rovers    
12    Walsall    
13    Swindon Town    
14    Leyton Orient    
15    Hartlepool United          
16    Bristol Rovers    
17    Millwall    
18    Yeovil Town    
19    Cheltenham Town    
20    Crewe Alexandra    
21    Bournemouth    
22    Gillingham    
23    Port Vale    
24    Luton Town    

I don't believe the Div. 1 of 2012/13 is anywhere near comparable

[Filo]

See the problem is Hoola that your comment, and Bentley's effectively shut down debate.

Regardless of anyone else's opinion, if the response is "Aye, yeah, we'll we're near the top because this league is shit." then there's no further discussion to be had.

There is no objective way of assessing why the claim that this league is shit should be considered accurate or inaccurate.

Personally, I think the claim is crap - most divisions have a very similar overall quality from one season to the next, with oscillations, sure, as the quality of the teams exiting the division doesn't match perfectly with the quality of those entering. But you're only talking about 30% of the sides there, even if every one of the exiting sides were comprehensively better than every one of the incoming sides (and that is quite demonstrably NOT the case), that would not change the overall quality of the division by a world-changing amount. You would need some mechanism to occur whereby, on average, the sides that remain in the division also lose quality over time. I know of no process by which that should have happened monotone ally to make L1 now so much worse than L1 5 years ago (when, recall, we regularly struggled against some middling opposition at home for the first half of the season...)



You will say that the division has got far worse since then. Maybe yes. Maybe no. Maybe there's some rose-tinted stuff going on.

I'll go for Occam's Razor again. Given that I see no mechanism for that change to occur, I suspect it's more likely to be the rose tints.

Not at all hence your reply to the observations that both Bentley and myself agree on. If you look at the opposition, size, history and financial clout of teams in this Division 5 years ago ; I believe you will agree that this year's opposition is the weaker.

2007/8 Division 1...........

1   Swansea City    ....................NOW  PREM.
2    Nottingham Forest ..............ESTAB. T2   
3    Doncaster Rovers    
4    Carlisle United    
5    Leeds United    ....................ESTAB. T2
6    Southend United    
7    Brighton and Hove A ...........ESTAB. T2   
8    Oldham Athletic    
9    Northampton Town    
10    Huddersfield Town ...............NOW   T2   
11    Tranmere Rovers    
12    Walsall    
13    Swindon Town    
14    Leyton Orient    
15    Hartlepool United          
16    Bristol Rovers    
17    Millwall    
18    Yeovil Town    
19    Cheltenham Town    
20    Crewe Alexandra    
21    Bournemouth    
22    Gillingham    
23    Port Vale    
24    Luton Town    

I don't believe the Div. 1 of 2012/13 is anywhere near comparable

Just to balance that one out a little



1   Swansea City   
2    Nottingham Forest   
3    Doncaster Rovers   
4    Carlisle United   
5    Leeds United   
6    Southend United................L2   
7    Brighton and Hove A   
8    Oldham Athletic   
9    Northampton Town..............L2   
10    Huddersfield Town   
11    Tranmere Rovers   
12    Walsall   
13    Swindon Town   
14    Leyton Orient   
15    Hartlepool United         
16    Bristol Rovers...............L2   
17    Millwall   
18    Yeovil Town   
19    Cheltenham Town..........L2   
20    Crewe Alexandra   
21    Bournemouth   
22    Gillingham............L2   
23    Port Vale...............L2   
24    Luton Town ..........Conf

[BobG]

And you both forgot Millwall.....!

Cheers

BobG

[Filo]

And you both forgot Millwall.....!

Cheers

BobG

Correct! but no one likes them, so we don`t care!

[dickos1]

The point he was making I think was that this year there are only 7 teams replacing another 7 teams from one year to the next.
The league can't therefore be miles worse, you've still got mk dons, Stevenage, Sheff united who all reached the playoffs last year in a supposed much harder division. You've got Swindon who are a good side new into the league. Brentford are a far better side than last year, so are Tranmere.
I'm not saying its better this year cause it's not but the way some people go on its like it's dropped to north east counties standard.

[BobG]

That made me laugh out loud Filo. Thanks!

Cheers

BobG

[dickos1]

So the league table from 2008 shows that 6 sides have gone up a division or 2 7 have gone down a division or 2 and 11 have stayed the same.
Hardly great evidence that is it?

[Bentley Bullet]

I can't comment on our away performances because I haven't been to any, but as a season ticket holder I've been to every home game. Perhaps the reason why I've been to every home game is because I've committed myself having bought a season ticket. I'm not sure if I would bother going otherwise. I'm not even sure if I'm losing interest in the game in general, but for some reason I feel disillusioned.

Maybe I feel like this because after Rovers achieved the ultimate dream of Championship football, the actual reality of it wasn't as fantastic as I expected. Was achieving the dream better than living it? Or perhaps the fact that we proved we couldn't financially sustain that level of football leaves me feeling that we'll never be able to in the future, so what's really the point in trying?

The last thing I need now is to witness my team not being able to string three passes together. On Saturday Coventry passed the ball out of defence, through their midfield and looked dangerous every time they went forward. When they lost the ball, they almost immediately got it back after a Rovers player kicked it or headed it aimlessly, and because Coventry looked like they had half a dozen more players than us it was no wonder the stray 'passes' went to them.

It's performances like Saturday's that convinces me we are in a false position. In a way I fear us being up there. Were we to go up as we are now we would struggle to get a point in the Championship. Perhaps we need the pressure off us by dropping down to mid-table security.

[scuzzer]

I can't comment on our away performances because I haven't been to any, but as a season ticket holder I've been to every home game. Perhaps the reason why I've been to every home game is because I've committed myself having bought a season ticket. I'm not sure if I would bother going otherwise. I'm not even sure if I'm losing interest in the game in general, but for some reason I feel disillusioned.

Maybe I feel like this because after Rovers achieved the ultimate dream of Championship football, the actual reality of it wasn't as fantastic as I expected. Was achieving the dream better than living it? Or perhaps the fact that we proved we couldn't financially sustain that level of football leaves me feeling that we'll never be able to in the future, so what's really the point in trying?

The last thing I need now is to witness my team not being able to string three passes together. On Saturday Coventry passed the ball out of defence, through their midfield and looked dangerous every time they went forward. When they lost the ball, they almost immediately got it back after a Rovers player kicked it or headed it aimlessly, and because Coventry looked like they had half a dozen more players than us it was no wonder the stray 'passes' went to them.

It's performances like Saturday's that convinces me we are in a false position. In a way I fear us being up there. Were we to go up as we are now we would struggle to get a point in the Championship. Perhaps we need the pressure off us by dropping down to mid-table security.

That's what i've been seeing at home BB too, i share your pain. There have been some better performances at some away games i've been to but there's generally not been a great deal to shout about full stop - other than the all important points tally. That alone will not put bums on seats though.

I struggle to see how anyone can try to argue with the idea that this league has gone backards since we were last in it, it's a chasm now between the two leagues as the bigger clubs in terms of support / finance that were  in this division have generally started to find their level in the tier above. Sheff U, Coventry and Pompey are in the dvision but haven't got a brass washer between them otherwise they'd be running away with it too back to the 'promised land'.

There's no stats to back it up but your eyes don't always deceive, and some of the fayre on show this year from opposition as well as us has been enough to make youre eyes want to bleed!

[Donnybax]

L1 is a very funny league,, usually teams dont go up playing brilliant stuff. The season we went up was an exception as ourselves and swansea went up playing great stuff but that doesnt normally happen in L1. Teams usually grind out results at this level and do what it takes to beat the opposition, which is what we have done. We do lack some creativity in opening teams up but we are grinding out results. Hopefully copps will be come back in Jan and give us the creativity we need.

[i_ateallthepies]

I can't comment on our away performances because I haven't been to any, but as a season ticket holder I've been to every home game. Perhaps the reason why I've been to every home game is because I've committed myself having bought a season ticket. I'm not sure if I would bother going otherwise. I'm not even sure if I'm losing interest in the game in general, but for some reason I feel disillusioned.

Maybe I feel like this because after Rovers achieved the ultimate dream of Championship football, the actual reality of it wasn't as fantastic as I expected. Was achieving the dream better than living it? Or perhaps the fact that we proved we couldn't financially sustain that level of football leaves me feeling that we'll never be able to in the future, so what's really the point in trying?

The last thing I need now is to witness my team not being able to string three passes together. On Saturday Coventry passed the ball out of defence, through their midfield and looked dangerous every time they went forward. When they lost the ball, they almost immediately got it back after a Rovers player kicked it or headed it aimlessly, and because Coventry looked like they had half a dozen more players than us it was no wonder the stray 'passes' went to them.

It's performances like Saturday's that convinces me we are in a false position. In a way I fear us being up there. Were we to go up as we are now we would struggle to get a point in the Championship. Perhaps we need the pressure off us by dropping down to mid-table security.

That's what i've been seeing at home BB too, i share your pain. There have been some better performances at some away games i've been to but there's generally not been a great deal to shout about full stop - other than the all important points tally. That alone will not put bums on seats though.

I struggle to see how anyone can try to argue with the idea that this league has gone backards since we were last in it, it's a chasm now between the two leagues as the bigger clubs in terms of support / finance that were  in this division have generally started to find their level in the tier above. Sheff U, Coventry and Pompey are in the dvision but haven't got a brass washer between them otherwise they'd be running away with it too back to the 'promised land'.

There's no stats to back it up but your eyes don't always deceive, and some of the fayre on show this year from opposition as well as us has been enough to make youre eyes want to bleed!

Amen to both those posts.