Clegg v Farage debate

[not on facebook]

Thankfully Oslo's ridiculous post was removed. Here's the truth behind his claims:

http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/4451633/

Thats quite shocking tbh

But i still stand by my views on the subject Of immigration

1....on open door europe
If the sign on the lift says 'Max 8 people'and 30 Get in,there is going
To be an accident.

2....on europe
Cant keep on handing over £20 and getting £10 back with nothing
Inside the shopping bag

3....on infrastructure
People Cant come into the pub and keep on having large
Vodkas out Of the whip if they have not put into the whip

EXcerpt from tower hamlets

[wilts rover]

10% of prisoners are ex-service personel

No they are not.

The statistic bandied about is "between 3 and 10% are ex forces" but even that I'd take issue with:

former soldiers the highest occupational culture claimed by prisoners

(my bold)

Far be it from me to cast aspersions on the word of these convicted criminals but if some of them told me the sky is blue I'd have to look up. I've heard of homeless people being picked up by ex-forces Police officers who've claimed to be ex-army but when asked for their regimental number they've "forgotten" it. - some people will claim almost anything if they think they'll derive benefit from it.

Sorry for dragging this OT but the 10% stat. is a pet hate of mine, makes it too easy for people to tar ex-servicemen / women with the "they're all mental / alcoholics / violent " brush.

Which was my reason for posting in the first place, it is easy to grossly simplfy, one eastern european is in a gang - therefore all eastern europeans are criminals.

I dont think anyone would claim that about ex-service personel, but compared to the ratio of people in the services to the general population the number of people in prison is shocking. A more in depth report here:

http://www.howardleague.org/fileadmin/howard_league/user/pdf/Veterans_inquiry/Military_inquiry_final_report.pdf

I have worked for the military (RLC and currently a related records organisation), been a prison visitor and worked with homeless charities if that helps my quedos.

[Sad-Rovers]

Which was my reason for posting in the first place, it is easy to grossly simplfy, one eastern european is in a gang - therefore all eastern europeans are criminals.

I dont think anyone would claim that about ex-service personel, but compared to the ratio of people in the services to the general population the number of people in prison is shocking. A more in depth report here:

http://www.howardleague.org/fileadmin/howard_league/user/pdf/Veterans_inquiry/Military_inquiry_final_report.pdf

I have worked for the military (RLC and currently a related records organisation), been a prison visitor and worked with homeless charities if that helps my quedos.

If it was your intent to state the ease at which figures are skewed why post a black and white statement like:

10% of prisoners are ex-service personel 

without providing any sort of context?

From the source you cite:

At the present time the most accurate figure would seem to be the product of a joint quantitative study carried out by the Ministry of Defence and the Ministry of Justice. This asserts that approximately 2,820, or some 3.5 per cent of all those currently in custody in England and Wales, had served in the Forces.

(my bold)

What sort of percentage of the prison population is made up of males 18 - 40, what percentage of forces leavers are also in that bracket? It's very easy to bandy figures about with no context.

[Sad-Rovers]

Let's put things another way, the RBL say there are currently 5.5 million veterans in the UK, 2820 are in prison. Percentage of ex-forces population in prison: 0.0512%

Total population of UK 63.23 million, prison population 85382 gives a rate of 0.135% well over double the ex-forces rate.

[wilts rover]

Aahh yes of course, silly me, you have done a wonderful job of disproving my figures and thus proving what a wonderful job the MOD is doing at helping people leaving the services assimilate back into civilian life. What a waste of time the Howard League report was.

End of debate.

[Sad-Rovers]

Aahh yes of course, silly me, you have done a wonderful job of disproving my figures and thus proving what a wonderful job the MOD is doing at helping people leaving the services assimilate back into civilian life. What a waste of time the Howard League report was.

End of debate.

I'm glad we agree.