Thomas cook

[bpoolrover]

Such a shame so many people have lost there jobs and are unsure about there holiday plans, lets hope they all get sorted soon

[BillyStubbsTears]

The holidaymakers will get home.

The 6000 who lost their jobs won't get sorted any time soon.

The t**ts in the boardroom taking £1m salaries while running a company that was bombing will be just fine though.

[bpoolrover]

Yes is wrong my friend has paid a lot to have a wedding abroad and will end up paying far more , but yes thoughts have to be with the people who have lost there jobs

[albie]

Quids in for the short sellers;
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-thomas-cook-grp-investment-hedge-fund/cluster-of-hedge-funds-set-to-profit-from-thomas-cook-failure-idUKKBN1W81N2

Pity about all the jobs lost and lives damaged, but there goes the casino economy again.

[BigH]

It's not as if the Board didn't see this coming. This year's Carillion...

Proof, as if it were needed, that no exec management team can justify mulltimillion pound salaries on the basis of procuring so called 'talent'.

When the dust settles, there should be big questions for government on this. How can we better protect workers, suppliers, creditors and the taxpayer from idiots who prioritise getting their snouts in the trough over running large scale businesses on a viable and sustainable basis.

[Filo]

All these Thomas Cook aircraft grounded and money is being spent on chartering aircraft from around the world, surely these grounded aircraft could be put to good use returning holidaymakers home

[IDM]

In theory yes but in practice there will be a finite among if time to set up or transfer the operating licences for those aircraft.

[drfchound]

Maybe the liquidator could rent the planes out to other operators to help with repatriation and the money received could go into the pot to help repay people that Thomas Cook owe.

[wing commander]

  Thing is hound they don't own most of them,they are leased and the ones they do own cant be rented as they are in liquidation so nothing can be touched at this stage..

  Bottom line here is that Thomas Cook are paying the price for failing to implement the modernisation business plan from the last time they were in stuck 7 years ago.They raised and borrowed a lot of money then to service the huge debt they had acquired that was due..To counter this they employed a new CEO, her job was to modernise and streamline the business..She only lasted 2 years and very little changed..

  Roll on another 5 years and the debts spiralled to 1.7billion and still losing money means it became a runaway train.Thing is this seems to have shocked a lot of people but it wasn't really, shareholders have been offloading hard onto the open market for the last year.I looked at them myself thinking they might be worth a turnaround trade but the accounts were that bad.And all the brokers had them downgraded to a "sell"
.
   The banks requested the extra security because they realised that even with raising the original amount agreed it bought them a couple of months if that..No private money was ever going to be risked on a company that was in such terrible state and would need circa 1 billion just to give it a years grace to turnaround...

   Amazingly the directors continued to issue themselves big bonuses and because they did that they also had to continue paying shareholders dividend payments.That only stopped in November..

   They are blaming the old favourites Brexit,currency fluctuations and a uk heatwave and whilst they would have had a little effect,none are the reasons for its failure.That lies solely at the feet of the board.It's worth noting that in the same period and in the same trading conditions JET2 have seen massive growth

 

[GazLaz]

Maybe the liquidator could rent the planes out to other operators to help with repatriation and the money received could go into the pot to help repay people that Thomas Cook owe.

They won’t own the majority of the planes.

I had some flights booked with TC. Called Barclays and they refunded the money straight away. Fair play to them. Replacement flights were a lot more expensive though.

[roversdude]

Hedge funds again

[wing commander]

 That's their business,i very rarely short stock myself as I don't agree with the principal but again that's not new news.TC has been one of the highest percentage shorts for the last 2 years on the main market..

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Having worked for a company that was hugely shorted and went in to liquidation, it's not the shorting that caused it and the challenge for those in the company is to prove them wrong.

We can all moan about it but ultimately those funds pay our pensions...

The real issue is they just had more cash going out than in, sometimes when the debt gets too high you get stuck and there is little way out. They probably needed to change their model, but the costs, cash and time to do that weren't there.

[GazLaz]

Hedge funds again

You never hear the story’s when hedge funds do millions in getting it wrong.

[Glyn_Wigley]

All these Thomas Cook aircraft grounded and money is being spent on chartering aircraft from around the world, surely these grounded aircraft could be put to good use returning holidaymakers home

In whose name would they be insured though?

[Glyn_Wigley]

Hedge funds again

You never hear the story’s when hedge funds do millions in getting it wrong.

What happens to their victims investments in those cases?

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

All these Thomas Cook aircraft grounded and money is being spent on chartering aircraft from around the world, surely these grounded aircraft could be put to good use returning holidaymakers home

In whose name would they be insured though?

The OR could easily insure them, companies can and do trade in liquidation with insurance.

[The Red Baron]

  Thing is hound they don't own most of them,they are leased and the ones they do own cant be rented as they are in liquidation so nothing can be touched at this stage..

  Bottom line here is that Thomas Cook are paying the price for failing to implement the modernisation business plan from the last time they were in stuck 7 years ago.They raised and borrowed a lot of money then to service the huge debt they had acquired that was due..To counter this they employed a new CEO, her job was to modernise and streamline the business..She only lasted 2 years and very little changed..

  Roll on another 5 years and the debts spiralled to 1.7billion and still losing money means it became a runaway train.Thing is this seems to have shocked a lot of people but it wasn't really, shareholders have been offloading hard onto the open market for the last year.I looked at them myself thinking they might be worth a turnaround trade but the accounts were that bad.And all the brokers had them downgraded to a "sell"
.
   The banks requested the extra security because they realised that even with raising the original amount agreed it bought them a couple of months if that..No private money was ever going to be risked on a company that was in such terrible state and would need circa 1 billion just to give it a years grace to turnaround...

   Amazingly the directors continued to issue themselves big bonuses and because they did that they also had to continue paying shareholders dividend payments.That only stopped in November..

   They are blaming the old favourites Brexit,currency fluctuations and a uk heatwave and whilst they would have had a little effect,none are the reasons for its failure.That lies solely at the feet of the board.It's worth noting that in the same period and in the same trading conditions JET2 have seen massive growth

 

https://twitter.com/Frances_Coppola/status/1176370817158012929?s=20

[albie]

Just to be clear....in the earlier post I was not saying that TC had collapsed BECAUSE of hedge fund activities.

As others say, TC had fundamental business deficits and had lost ground to competitors, so they were ripe for a fall.

The point I was making is that there are always those looking to profit from the weakness of other companies, and will take the chance when it shows.

The question is really whether this type of activity should be made illegal under a new government.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Just to be clear....in the earlier post I was not saying that TC had collapsed BECAUSE of hedge fund activities.

As others say, TC had fundamental business deficits and had lost ground to competitors, so they were ripe for a fall.

The point I was making is that there are always those looking to profit from the weakness of other companies, and will take the chance when it shows.

The question is really whether this type of activity should be made illegal under a new government.

Absolutely not, the city of london and its associated finance elements are what keep this country going.

[albie]

BFYP,

You have lost me there!
Are you saying that short selling should continue as a legitimate activity in the finance sector?

Trouble is, the effects of short selling strategies extend into the wider economy, and draw in innocent bystanders to the backwash.

See the Bloomberg link I posted in the "Polls" thread...it is far reaching.

Put my mind at rest and clear that up.

[albie]

Update on the Thomas Cook money tree;
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-30/traders-may-pocket-250-million-from-thomas-cook-credit-swaps

Another opportunity soon!