Musings #14: Game on the Precipice

[RoversAlias]

Hi folks,

My latest editorial responds to the news that fans will not be allowed back into stadiums in October, and calls for action now to save the sport before it's too late for dozens of clubs and millions of people. You can check it out at the link below:

https://www.intotheemptynet.com/post/musings-from-the-south-stand-14-game-on-the-precipice

Thanks for reading as ever, please let me know your thoughts - how do you think football survives this troubling time?

 

[ss1953]

Another fine read.

Donny Dave has asked for possible links to be included in the VSC links section.
I have suggested Donny Fan sites, and he asked for the links.

Can I pass on the link to your site?

[RoversAlias]

Of course SS, thanks for suggesting us!

[Maps]

Really good read. Thank you. Couldn't argue with a single word of it.

[since-1969]

Does anyone truly believe that this government who have spent over £150billion to keep 23 million people at home during a pandemic , airlines not  to fly and denied countless millions of  foreigners from travellers to come to the U.K. will bale out football clubs . Not a chance . They do not see sport as a priority or even important to the government. Let’s face facts football has an image of greedy over paid tossers who care more for their Ferrari , and their image rights than the clubs they even play for Today ! . Out side of the Premier League most of the government haven’t heard of Rochdale or Crewe etc . The Efl proposed lower wages for all in League 1-2 that’s their contribution to solving the cash flow . The next will be to abandon  the season altogether and restart when the “Government”. says so . We as supporters are the problem and if we keep trying to put any more pressure about restarting and asking for hand outs it will lead to the plug being pulled by the EFL .. There is NO more cash in the tin for anyone .. only years of same old same old tax and more tax .

[Campsall rover]

Does anyone truly believe that this government who have spent over £150billion to keep 23 million people at home during a pandemic , airlines not  to fly and denied countless millions of  foreigners from travellers to come to the U.K. will bale out football clubs . Not a chance . They do not see sport as a priority or even important to the government. Let’s face facts football has an image of greedy over paid tossers who care more for their Ferrari , and their image rights than the clubs they even play for Today ! . Out side of the Premier League most of the government haven’t heard of Rochdale or Crewe etc . The Efl proposed lower wages for all in League 1-2 that’s their contribution to solving the cash flow . The next will be to abandon  the season altogether and restart when the “Government”. says so . We as supporters are the problem and if we keep trying to put any more pressure about restarting and asking for hand outs it will lead to the plug being pulled by the EFL .. There is NO more cash in the tin for anyone .. only years of same old same old tax and more tax .

Sorry 1969 I don’t know what your saying here.
Do you think government ministers think league 1 & 2 players are driving around in £150.000 cars and live in 6 bedroom houses worth £500.000 to a £1.000.000 ( add a bit or a lot for SE England )

I know many politicians are not living in the real world, but come on most of them are not that stupid.
What we need are some serious discussions with the government about how to keep most of our Football league clubs and most top tier non league clubs alive and kicking over the next 6 months and beyond.

Lower down the pyramid from tier 7 & below they should be able to sustain themselves, as the wages they pay to players are very small and they are able to have spectators in their grounds. In fact they may benefit from larger crowds from supporters looking for their Saturday football fix who are unable to watch EFL or Premier League football in stadiums.

We need to create a considerable amount of pressure on Government to make them see the benefits of having restricted crowd numbers in football grounds across the country. Surely outdoor events are much safer than, Pubs, Restaurants, Gyms etc etc as SS has been saying, where large numbers congregate in smaller indoor spaces.
People eating & drinking can’t wear face masks but in stadiums they can.

Pressure on Government is just what is needed. We need some serious leadership now from all the Football governing bodies and the PFA.

[scawsby steve]

Does anyone truly believe that this government who have spent over £150billion to keep 23 million people at home during a pandemic , airlines not  to fly and denied countless millions of  foreigners from travellers to come to the U.K. will bale out football clubs . Not a chance . They do not see sport as a priority or even important to the government. Let’s face facts football has an image of greedy over paid tossers who care more for their Ferrari , and their image rights than the clubs they even play for Today ! . Out side of the Premier League most of the government haven’t heard of Rochdale or Crewe etc . The Efl proposed lower wages for all in League 1-2 that’s their contribution to solving the cash flow . The next will be to abandon  the season altogether and restart when the “Government”. says so . We as supporters are the problem and if we keep trying to put any more pressure about restarting and asking for hand outs it will lead to the plug being pulled by the EFL .. There is NO more cash in the tin for anyone .. only years of same old same old tax and more tax .

Sorry 1969 I don’t know what your saying here.
Do you think government ministers think league 1 & 2 players are driving around in £150.000 cars and live in 6 bedroom houses worth £500.000 to a £1.000.000 ( add a bit or a lot for SE England )

I know many politicians are not living in the real world, but come on most of them are not that stupid.
What we need are some serious discussions with the government about how to keep most of our Football league clubs and most top tier non league clubs alive and kicking over the next 6 months and beyond.

Lower down the pyramid from tier 7 & below they should be able to sustain themselves, as the wages they play to players are very small and they are able to have spectators in their grounds. In fact they may benefit from larger crowds from supporters looking for their Saturday football fix who are unable to watch EFL or Premier League football in stadiums.

We need a to create a considerable amount of pressure on Government to make them see the benefits of having restricted crowd numbers in football grounds across the country. Surely outdoor events are much safer than, pubs, Restaurants, Gyms etc etc as SS has been saying, where large numbers congregate in smaller indoor spaces.
People eating & drinking can’t wear face masks but in stadiums they can.

Pressure on Government is just what is needed. We need some serious leadership now from all the Football governing bodies and the PFA.

At last, someone who agrees with me on something that is so obvious.

[Janso]

There's more that agree with you than you probably think.

[Campsall rover]

Does anyone truly believe that this government who have spent over £150billion to keep 23 million people at home during a pandemic , airlines not  to fly and denied countless millions of  foreigners from travellers to come to the U.K. will bale out football clubs . Not a chance . They do not see sport as a priority or even important to the government. Let’s face facts football has an image of greedy over paid tossers who care more for their Ferrari , and their image rights than the clubs they even play for Today ! . Out side of the Premier League most of the government haven’t heard of Rochdale or Crewe etc . The Efl proposed lower wages for all in League 1-2 that’s their contribution to solving the cash flow . The next will be to abandon  the season altogether and restart when the “Government”. says so . We as supporters are the problem and if we keep trying to put any more pressure about restarting and asking for hand outs it will lead to the plug being pulled by the EFL .. There is NO more cash in the tin for anyone .. only years of same old same old tax and more tax .

Sorry 1969 I don’t know what your saying here.
Do you think government ministers think league 1 & 2 players are driving around in £150.000 cars and live in 6 bedroom houses worth £500.000 to a £1.000.000 ( add a bit or a lot for SE England )

I know many politicians are not living in the real world, but come on most of them are not that stupid.
What we need are some serious discussions with the government about how to keep most of our Football league clubs and most top tier non league clubs alive and kicking over the next 6 months and beyond.

Lower down the pyramid from tier 7 & below they should be able to sustain themselves, as the wages they play to players are very small and they are able to have spectators in their grounds. In fact they may benefit from larger crowds from supporters looking for their Saturday football fix who are unable to watch EFL or Premier League football in stadiums.

We need a to create a considerable amount of pressure on Government to make them see the benefits of having restricted crowd numbers in football grounds across the country. Surely outdoor events are much safer than, pubs, Restaurants, Gyms etc etc as SS has been saying, where large numbers congregate in smaller indoor spaces.
People eating & drinking can’t wear face masks but in stadiums they can.

Pressure on Government is just what is needed. We need some serious leadership now from all the Football governing bodies and the PFA.

At last, someone who agrees with me on something that is so obvious.

It’s not rocket science SS and i am sure there are thousands if not millions of people who agree with you.

Far too many double standards and anomaly’s with regard to the restrictions currently in place.

We need to keep as much of the economy going for the benefit of every single citizen. Sport plays a huge role in the mental well being of those who follow, partake and spectate at sporting events, apart from the large numbers of employees in this sector.
 
I can’t see any viable reason why 4.000 or 5.000 people can’t go to an outdoor stadium which has a capacity of 15.000 providing all the protocols are in place within that stadium.

It’s simply about people being sensible with social distancing. Surely we don’t need to shut down huge swaithes of the economy to beat this virus. That will do more harm than it will do good imo.
.

[since-1969]

Does anyone truly believe that this government who have spent over £150billion to keep 23 million people at home during a pandemic , airlines not  to fly and denied countless millions of  foreigners from travellers to come to the U.K. will bale out football clubs . Not a chance . They do not see sport as a priority or even important to the government. Let’s face facts football has an image of greedy over paid tossers who care more for their Ferrari , and their image rights than the clubs they even play for Today ! . Out side of the Premier League most of the government haven’t heard of Rochdale or Crewe etc . The Efl proposed lower wages for all in League 1-2 that’s their contribution to solving the cash flow . The next will be to abandon  the season altogether and restart when the “Government”. says so . We as supporters are the problem and if we keep trying to put any more pressure about restarting and asking for hand outs it will lead to the plug being pulled by the EFL .. There is NO more cash in the tin for anyone .. only years of same old same old tax and more tax .

Sorry 1969 I don’t know what your saying here.
Do you think government ministers think league 1 & 2 players are driving around in £150.000 cars and live in 6 bedroom houses worth £500.000 to a £1.000.000 ( add a bit or a lot for SE England )

I know many politicians are not living in the real world, but come on most of them are not that stupid.
What we need are some serious discussions with the government about how to keep most of our Football league clubs and most top tier non league clubs alive and kicking over the next 6 months and beyond.

Lower down the pyramid from tier 7 & below they should be able to sustain themselves, as the wages they pay to players are very small and they are able to have spectators in their grounds. In fact they may benefit from larger crowds from supporters looking for their Saturday football fix who are unable to watch EFL or Premier League football in stadiums.

We need to create a considerable amount of pressure on Government to make them see the benefits of having restricted crowd numbers in football grounds across the country. Surely outdoor events are much safer than, Pubs, Restaurants, Gyms etc etc as SS has been saying, where large numbers congregate in smaller indoor spaces.
People eating & drinking can’t wear face masks but in stadiums they can.

Pressure on Government is just what is needed. We need some serious leadership now from all the Football governing bodies and the PFA.

I was being a little flippant ,but I doubt there can be any handouts to football clubs who can do a Bury  or Bolton and Wigan and just walk away . If the government give any money it will be loans but that just adds to a clubs downfall if they are already over stretched . The EFL are the only body who can put a plan together and up till now have failed to persuade the authorities that football can handle this Covid crisis without making things worse . If the trials were allowed to continue IMO I believe clubs would have the cooperation of the supporters to comply. We are all fed up with the lack of initiatives being put forward in support of fans returning. 

[selby]

  The Government have already introduced stage VAT payments which will help.
  The game football will survive, some clubs may disappear, and some Championship sides and above deserve to do so, I hope they don't, but sympathy if they do should be sparing.
  The thing is they will be replaced by teams from below, because the game will survive, let's face it six months ago the predictions were that quite a number would already have gone but apart from Macclesfield are still hanging on mainly because of generous supporters not the people who run the game, who have done very little to help.
   Those are the people who own football clubs and the game, they will still be there when the spivs and crooks have long gone.

[since-1969]

What happens if the season continues  behind closed doors . Supporters who bought season tickets will be entitled to a refund . Then clubs may see some donated back to the club and some supporters who may not . Then there’s how the season panned out if it was a good on and promotion was secured the following season will sell its self . If relegated the opposite may happen and supporters drift away so even less money coming in .
Either way to make sense of anything it’s the supporters who need to be put in charge of the decision making or at least consulted club by club so the Efl can plan ahead . The government is telling us all that we will have to live with COVID-19 and adjust to its effects on society. If a person can take his family to a restaurant then he should with alterations be able to watch live sports . We either except practical changes or risk football , Rugby Cricket etc all being both balled until so many clubs are forced to turn semi -Pro and the leagues are so weakened that the Premier League and Championship? are left to fight over the Sky tv money .

[selby]

  The premiership teams could go a long way to help the whole of the smaller clubs in the EFL without it costing them any more money at all, by equally distributing the Parachute payments paid for failure to three clubs by stopping it immediately and sharing the money out equally for two years to every EFL club.

[Campsall rover]

  The premiership teams could go a long way to help the whole of the smaller clubs in the EFL without it costing them any more money at all, by equally distributing the Parachute payments paid for failure to three clubs by stopping it immediately and sharing the money out equally for two years to every EFL club.

That would be sensible Brian. But do you think sensible and fair are words, that will be translated into actions by the Premier League.
We can all dream on with that idea.

It is so frustrating though as their is enough money sloshing about at the top level to help every EFL club get through this crisis.

[selby]

  The three teams would scream blue murder, the rest of the Championship would scream they want 90% of it and the other 10% left for the others to fight over.
  What is needed is the government to step in and have the guts to say B******S this is the way it is going to be.

[Donnybob]

I will probably get pelters for saying this but it is up to fans to save the game, not Government. The Government doesn't gave a bottomless pit of cash. It borrows funds, distributes them and then the nation pays this back through taxation.

If that money was distributed across 'the 92', tell me how it would be shared. Equally? Or would Leeds and Manchester City get a higher proportion of Doncaster tax payers' contribution?

Folk who like to moan and criticise the Government haven't thought this through, have they?

Now let's look at limited ground opening. Does this improve revenue significantly? No. The only spectators in the ground would be those who have already paid for a season ticket, therefore no income lift at the turnstile. However, there are costs to consider. Stewarding, security, cleansing the stadium facilities afterwards, administration, etc.

Would this be offset by a few refreshment sales? Would these indeed be made available? Cost effective to open, even? Would queuing for a drink be allowed?

Opening up carries risks. Would it then require intensive testing of players and staff?

Would allowing a limited number of fans into the stadium prove to be divisive and breed jealousy? Fans falling out through a sense of entitlement to be there and being let down by the club.

If you seriously want your club to survive, and I fear many clubs will not, then it's time to dig deep. Just send the club the money you would have spent at each game and watch it in the TV. Purchase merchandise, online or through official outlets. If you feel you cannot support the club to this degree, send a tenner, or twenty quid, whatever, even a fiver. Maintain the turnover, keep the wolves away from the door. Take a long term view.

No point moaning about fairness. We are in unprecedented times. Survival of the fittest. The smartest. This isn't going away any time soon. We are in for the long haul. A Government bail out would be like offering a junkie a fix and expecting it to cure his long-term addiction. It won't. It's a sticking plaster to kick the can further down the road. It does not resolve the problem.

How about the club offering an incentive scheme. Free viewing of the game but they bill us £10 for every point won? That would be interesting. You could sign up for a bonus scheme, an extra quid for every goal scored. More revenue, greater chance of survival and we would be coming out of the other side in a stronger position to progress.

It's in our hands.

(I've edited the spelling mistakes, big fingers and a tablet keyboard!)

[drfchound]

Lots of very good points in that post donnybob.

[Janso]

Not sure how much of the income from the shop the club gets, but if you look at it another way, most of the stuff in there costs what you'd maybe spend on two home tickets a month (just an example) if you do have money to spare and wanted to contribute to the club.

Not everybody can in this climate, of course, and there's no shame in it, doesn't make anyone less of a supporter.

[wilts rover]

Actually Donnybob that is exactly the opposite to what the government have been saying.

At PMQ's on Wednesday, in answer to the Mansfied MP's question on what the government are doing to help lower league football clubs, Johnson said this:

Well Mr Speaker, I know what a passionate supporter my honourable friend is for Mansfield Town and I can tell him, and by the way I want to thank John and Carolyn Radford for all they have done for the club and I can tell him that the Secretary of State for culture, media and sport is in active consultation with clubs across the country to see what we can do to help.

If this is true it is suprising it wasn't mentioned by Sunak on Thursday.

If it isn't, well...

https://www.chad.co.uk/sport/football/prime-minister-praises-mansfield-town-owners-all-they-have-done-support-club-during-covid-19-crisis-2982307

[drfchound]

Mr Bradley seemingly doesn’t understand the point that donnybob has made about gate receipts.

[Donnybob]

Unfortunately "the Secretary of state for culture, media and sport is in active consultation with clubs across the country to see what we can do to help” does not amount to much more than hot air and promises. It is a text book politician's answer. Soundbites like 'looking into' and 'active consultation' are a far cry from putting cash in the bank. I suspect clubs that rely solely on the Government delivering on this promise will find themselves in trouble. As the saying goes, show me the money!