"Golden Generations"

[DonnyNoel]

Apologies for starting a slightly similar thread to the Euro’s one but this might get some historical juices and debate going.

So after Belgium bow out today do they have to join the opinion-driven genre of not making the most of their golden generation?

Hungary in the 50’s
Holland in the 70’s
Brazil in the 80’s (although I’m well aware they did ok in the other decades)
England early 00’s

Now do we add Belgium to that? Courtois, De Bruyne, Hazard, Lukaku, Witsel….?

[DearneValleyRover]

I think you are spot on

[DonnyNoel]

On the flip side maybe credit to the likes of Spain and France (excluding this week) to doing the opposite.

[RoversAlias]

Absolutely, and this was the last chance for several of them. Vermaelen, Alderweireld, Witsel and one or two others won't be here again I don't imagine for Belgium.

They've wasted years on Roberto Martinez, they really have.

[BillyStubbsTears]

They've been the most talented group of footballers of these recent times. But they've lacked a mester to set the standard and insist on finding that extra bit.

The sort that Italy finds every generation. Gentile, Baresi, Cannavarro and Chiellini. Every truly great side needs one.

[Bentley Bullet]

Absolutely, and this was the last chance for several of them. Vermaelen, Alderweireld, Witsel and one or two others won't be here again I don't imagine for Belgium.

They've wasted years on Roberto Martinez, they really have.

RA, I was under the impression that it was Martinez who created Belgium's rise in international football.

[RoversAlias]

Absolutely, and this was the last chance for several of them. Vermaelen, Alderweireld, Witsel and one or two others won't be here again I don't imagine for Belgium.

They've wasted years on Roberto Martinez, they really have.

RA, I was under the impression that it was Martinez who created Belgium's rise in international football.

Not at all, Bentley. Belgium's Golden Generation came through under predecessor Marc Wilmots and they reached the Quarter Finals at the 2014 World Cup. That team featured Hazard, Lukaku, De Bruyne, Alderweireld, Courtois, Witsel, Vertonghen, Vermaelen, Mertens and Chadli - all of whom played tonight - plus Kompany, Mirallas and Fellaini too.

The BBC's match report of the game at the time even referred to them as "Belgium's so-called Golden Generation" - World Cup 2014: Argentina 1-0 Belgium - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/28069209#tab-Line-ups

Regardless, the national manager rarely has much to do with the rise of such a generation anyway. Sven Goran Eriksson had nothing to do with the collective rise of Beckham, Scholes, Cole, Ferdinand, Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney etc. etc. with England for instance, nor did Wilmots or Martinez with this Belgium side.

Their window is closing, the majority of those players listed above have very few tournaments left in their prime now, if any, and I believe Belgium have squandered their once-in-a-blue-moon team of top stars by having them coached by a mediocre manager who has coasted on minor achievements for far too long.

Unlike England, or an Italy or Germany, a smaller nation like Belgium with a lesser domestic league is far less likely to keep churning out such numbers of talent together as well.

[Bentley Bullet]

Ah right mate. I'm not much of an authority on international football but I did see a TV programme about Martinez in his role as Belgium manager and it gave me the impression that the country in general thought he was the bees knees.

[GazLaz]

People always underplay how much luck you need to do well in knockout competitions. It’s a massive part of it.

[DonnyOsmond]

Absolutely, and this was the last chance for several of them. Vermaelen, Alderweireld, Witsel and one or two others won't be here again I don't imagine for Belgium.

They've wasted years on Roberto Martinez, they really have.

RA, I was under the impression that it was Martinez who created Belgium's rise in international football.

Not at all, Bentley. Belgium's Golden Generation came through under predecessor Marc Wilmots and they reached the Quarter Finals at the 2014 World Cup. That team featured Hazard, Lukaku, De Bruyne, Alderweireld, Courtois, Witsel, Vertonghen, Vermaelen, Mertens and Chadli - all of whom played tonight - plus Kompany, Mirallas and Fellaini too.

The BBC's match report of the game at the time even referred to them as "Belgium's so-called Golden Generation" - World Cup 2014: Argentina 1-0 Belgium - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/28069209#tab-Line-ups

Regardless, the national manager rarely has much to do with the rise of such a generation anyway. Sven Goran Eriksson had nothing to do with the collective rise of Beckham, Scholes, Cole, Ferdinand, Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney etc. etc. with England for instance, nor did Wilmots or Martinez with this Belgium side.

Their window is closing, the majority of those players listed above have very few tournaments left in their prime now, if any, and I believe Belgium have squandered their once-in-a-blue-moon team of top stars by having them coached by a mediocre manager who has coasted on minor achievements for far too long.

Unlike England, or an Italy or Germany, a smaller nation like Belgium with a lesser domestic league is far less likely to keep churning out such numbers of talent together as well.

To be fair they've got some decent lads coming through now, and a lot of this is due to their change in ideas in the early 2000s. Unsure if they'll reach the heights of the current crop but Doku, Kana, Verschaeren, Sardella will definitely keep them challenging in the top 10.

[NickDRFC]

I don’t know much about what’s coming through but you’d think this was the last chance for this crop that’s now come and gone. Kompany, Fellaini and Dembele have already retired, Meunier, De Bruyne, Wiesel, Hazard, Alderweireld, Vertonghen and Vermaelen are all just about 30 or beyond. I think Doku is the only player under the age of 25 in the whole squad. Going to be hard to go through such wholesale change for them.

[DonnyOsmond]

I don’t know much about what’s coming through but you’d think this was the last chance for this crop that’s now come and gone. Kompany, Fellaini and Dembele have already retired, Meunier, De Bruyne, Wiesel, Hazard, Alderweireld, Vertonghen and Vermaelen are all just about 30 or beyond. I think Doku is the only player under the age of 25 in the whole squad. Going to be hard to go through such wholesale change for them.

I can only see Vermaelen, Vertonghen and Mertens going this time. The rest will make the World Cup in 15 months but it would leave them a bit weaker in defence.

[Padge_DRFC]

Close between France and Belgium for me when it comes to players on paper.

England I'd say close third on paper.

Mancini doing a right job with Italy currently.

[graingrover]

There is no doubt that this is a one-off generation of exceptional Belgian footballers. There is no national development academy, and no club spawns stars like Ajax did in Holland, and no U23 team waiting in the wings. My Belgian community friends talk of the three center-backs whose ages add up to100.Moreover, the current crop of stars all operate abroad in disparate football cultures. Nevertheless, this squad has done magnificently well and has made the country proud.

[DonnyNoel]

People always underplay how much luck you need to do well in knockout competitions. It’s a massive part of it.

True, one off day, one mistake, one opponent having the game of their lives and it's all over but for this crop to not get to a major final in the last 4 tournaments will haunt them I think although as pointed out above, its not that long until Qatar.

[Colemans Left Hook]

People always underplay how much luck you need to do well in knockout competitions. It’s a massive part of it.

lucky teams "of the moment" win cups,  how many of you  have realised "covac is fully behind England"  now if that last match had been played in Dublin , it would have been a different ball game.

At least The Irish saved on their electricity  bills

.....  no need to leave the lights on so the German could |"bomb England out"

[bedale rover]

Napoleon always used to say

"I know he is good general but is he lucky"?

[selby]

  England lost their best golden generation  in 1958 in the Munich disaster, and Northern Ireland lost out as well who were good enough to get to the world cup quarter final.
 Also add King Alick and an injured Brian Clough to those great players.

[Campsall rover]

  England lost their best golden generation  in 1958 in the Munich disaster, and Northern Ireland lost out as well who were good enough to get to the world cup quarter final.
 Also add King Alick and an injured Brian Clough to those great players.

Would they have been good enough to win either the 58 or 62 World Cups in Sweden & Chile Brian?

Silly question as of course we will never know.
No European Country has won in South America. Not as yet they haven’t.

[RoversAlias]

  England lost their best golden generation  in 1958 in the Munich disaster, and Northern Ireland lost out as well who were good enough to get to the world cup quarter final.
 Also add King Alick and an injured Brian Clough to those great players.

Would they have been good enough to win either the 58 or 62 World Cups in Sweden & Chile Brian?

Silly question as of course we will never know.
No European Country has won in South America. Not as yet they haven’t.

Germany won the 2014 World Cup Final in Brazil, defeating Brazil and Argentina in the final two rounds to lift the trophy.

[Campsall rover]

  England lost their best golden generation  in 1958 in the Munich disaster, and Northern Ireland lost out as well who were good enough to get to the world cup quarter final.
 Also add King Alick and an injured Brian Clough to those great players.

Would they have been good enough to win either the 58 or 62 World Cups in Sweden & Chile Brian?

Silly question as of course we will never know.
No European Country has won in South America. Not as yet they haven’t.

Germany won the 2014 World Cup Final in Brazil, defeating Brazil and Argentina in the final two rounds to lift the trophy.

Far too recent for me to remember that Alias.

Wondered who would be the 1st to put me right. 

[selby]

  1958 yes 1962 Brazil considered they had won the cup when beating us in the quarter final, Duncan Edwards, Alick Jeffery and Brian Clough  would have been in their pomp.