Colston 4

[SydneyRover]

But I said that the first time.

yep, sorry I missed it.

[belton rover]

I did add it as an edit.

Get us being polite to each other.

[SydneyRover]

yes, I did see the edit but I thought I would let it go, see what I did there?

[SydneyRover]

Now here's the thing, are you ready for the next stage? you agree they shouldn't have to wait for justice, and yet they have waited for at least two centuries, since slavery was ended, so could you see that as being unjust?

[wilts rover]

The government are attempting to build a tunnel under Stonehenge so that holidaymakers from London can get to Cornwall quicker in the summer. The eastern portal is planned to start in an area known as Blick Mead/Vespian's Camp.

Excavations at Blick Mead have shown continuous habitation and use of this site for c9000 years. It was occupied for around 3000 years before Stonehenge was built - and through the period of building the monument - so the people who lived there almost certainly were heavily involved in building it.

Blick Mead is totally unique in the history and understanding of the history of the very earliest people who lived on these islands. Nowhere else yet discovered has such evidence of continual habitation ever been found. And the government wish to destroy all evidence of it. Give over with your pathetic pleas of 'criminal damage' - that is real criminal damage.

If you want to jail people for pulling down a statue of a bloke you had never heard of that you can go look at in a museum any time you want - yet you are happy to see one of the most historic and unique places on these islands destroyed forever without even a thought - then I doubt it is history you are interested in.

[belton rover]

The government are attempting to build a tunnel under Stonehenge so that holidaymakers from London can get to Cornwall quicker in the summer. The eastern portal is planned to start in an area known as Blick Mead/Vespian's Camp.

Excavations at Blick Mead have shown continuous habitation and use of this site for c9000 years. It was occupied for around 3000 years before Stonehenge was built - and through the period of building the monument - so the people who lived there almost certainly were heavily involved in building it.

Blick Mead is totally unique in the history and understanding of the history of the very earliest people who lived on these islands. Nowhere else yet discovered has such evidence of continual habitation ever been found. And the government wish to destroy all evidence of it. Give over with your pathetic pleas of 'criminal damage' - that is real criminal damage.

If you want to jail people for pulling down a statue of a bloke you had never heard of that you can go look at in a museum any time you want - yet you are happy to see one of the most historic and unique places on these islands destroyed forever without even a thought - then I doubt it is history you are interested in.

I’m not sure that comparison really works, Wilts.

For the record, I think the four committed a crime and should be punished accordingly.
The Stone Henge thing is outrageous and should not be allowed to happen.
Who’s said they are happy to see it happen?

[River Don]

This was a protest trial, in which the defendants focus on justifying their actions with a "lawful excuse". Invariably, this explicitly brings politics into the court.

The defendants accept they caused criminal damage but argue there were still good reasons for acquittal and ultimately the jury accepted this.

Does anyone really think the city of Bristol should be publicly   honouring a slave trader in this day and age?

[SydneyRover]

This was a protest trial, in which the defendants focus on justifying their actions. Invariably, this explicitly brings politics into the court.

The defendants accept they caused criminal damage but argue there were still good reasons for acquittal and ultimately the jury accepted this.

Does anyone really think the city of Bristol should be publicly   honouring a slave trader in this day and age?

Bristol was an area that saw riots due to ethnic tensions way back in 1980.

[River Don]

This was a protest trial, in which the defendants focus on justifying their actions. Invariably, this explicitly brings politics into the court.

The defendants accept they caused criminal damage but argue there were still good reasons for acquittal and ultimately the jury accepted this.

Does anyone really think the city of Bristol should be publicly   honouring a slave trader in this day and age?

Bristol was an area that saw riots due to ethnic tensions way back in 1980.

Hence the judge allowed the jury to consider whether the statue was offensive.

[BillyStubbsTears]

It's similar to the issues in the USA with statues of General Lee standing proud over Deep South cities. Statues like that are not simply about reflecting history. They make political points every day to citizens who have to walk past them and be reminded of both past atrocities and present day discrimination.

[SydneyRover]

There's certainly a long way to go?

''Ashley Cole: police investigate claim of racial abuse at Swindon match
Retired professional footballer was working for ITV Sport at County Ground as Wiltshire club played Manchester City''

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/08/ashley-cole-police-investigate-claim-of-racial-abuse-at-swindon-match

[wilts rover]

The conservatives - a party that doesn't seem to want to conserve anything:

Letter From London
Back to England, where trial by jury has been called into question by Tory semiologists and clickbait Hegelians who think that history is some sort of list.
 
To recap: Eighteen months ago a mob, high on a dangerous psychoactive called idealism, toppled a brass tiki of a local slaver. They had concluded that if morality exists, it probably does not favour placing images of traders in human flesh on pedestals. This week the ringleaders, the Colston Four, were acquitted by a jury of their peers on the reasonable grounds that Colston was a git.

Step forward the broadcasters with channel numbers bigger than their audience figures and Tories with poll numbers lower than their IQs.

‘But he was of his time’ insisted the shockjocks who didn’t know they had an opinion on the subject until at least ninety seconds after they started riffing on it.

‘But he was of his time’ repeated the MPs who didn’t know they had an opinion on the subject until the shockjocks started having theirs. 

Maybe the 80,000 whom Colston enslaved and the 19,000 who died shackled in their own filth, were not of his time.
Maybe the eleventh-century bishop Wulfstan who railed against slavery from Bristol docks six hundred years before Colston made his fortune from it, and a full thousand before his statue failed its Ducklings Level Three, was not of his time either.

Or maybe, this cub reporter is tempted to speculate, the people trafficker who built his fortune on those whom he caused to be manacled, battered, raped, and killed, committed so much of it to philanthropy because he knew that four centuries later there would be swivel-eyed and blue-rosetted successors who were still under his spell.

So, perhaps inevitably, we look to Suella Braverman, the no-win-no-fee Attorney General, who seeks to talk past the verdict and appease all the wrong people by wondering whether to refer the matter to the court of appeal. That trial by jury, a proceeding Ye Olde England exported around the world, is now expendable to the Conservatives, a party that doesn’t appear to want to conserve anything, comes as no surprise. And who cares? As the famous Govian saying goes, “We’ve all had enough of exports.”

https://twitter.com/secrettory12/status/1480086942196850688/photo/1

[wilts rover]

The government are attempting to build a tunnel under Stonehenge so that holidaymakers from London can get to Cornwall quicker in the summer. The eastern portal is planned to start in an area known as Blick Mead/Vespian's Camp.

Excavations at Blick Mead have shown continuous habitation and use of this site for c9000 years. It was occupied for around 3000 years before Stonehenge was built - and through the period of building the monument - so the people who lived there almost certainly were heavily involved in building it.

Blick Mead is totally unique in the history and understanding of the history of the very earliest people who lived on these islands. Nowhere else yet discovered has such evidence of continual habitation ever been found. And the government wish to destroy all evidence of it. Give over with your pathetic pleas of 'criminal damage' - that is real criminal damage.

If you want to jail people for pulling down a statue of a bloke you had never heard of that you can go look at in a museum any time you want - yet you are happy to see one of the most historic and unique places on these islands destroyed forever without even a thought - then I doubt it is history you are interested in.

I’m not sure that comparison really works, Wilts.

For the record, I think the four committed a crime and should be punished accordingly.
The Stone Henge thing is outrageous and should not be allowed to happen.
Who’s said they are happy to see it happen?

I know Belton and thats my point. These things should be reported more so that people can see what is and isn't 'criminal'.

This government are happy to see it happen because it is entirely their project. National heritage groups and local people are disgusted by it.

There was a High Court case that said it should not be allowed to go ahead because of the importance of Blick Mead. As per Colston, the government have said they are going to ignore it and go ahead anyway.

[Branton Red]

Not going to comment on this particular case and the legal technicalities as I'm no expert.

But those wanting to abolish or diminish the use of the jury system off the back of one decision they disagree with seriously need to think again.

Imagine the uproar with debatable/controversial decisions if it was down to privileged, wealthy judges to decide on the guilt or innocence of defendants for imprison-able offences!

Being judged by fellow citizens who are independent of the state is a cornerstone of our freedom. Juries were first introduced by Henry II in the 12th Century, long before democratic elections, and have survived many tyrannical rulers in the time since. This fair system, it's very early adoption here and it's spread to other countries is something we should be hugely proud of not looking to destroy!