Energy Profits Levy

[BillyStubbsTears]

Jesus.
Mike Graham. Reinforcing pensioners' ignorance since 2006.

[selby]

  The spread of Human living space and the destruction it brings of natural living habitat is responsible for species disappearing together with the wide spread use of insecticides Wilts and you well know it.
  As for the higher water levels nobody I have ever heard factor in the use of water by human consumption that grows every day in both Industry and sustainability when predicting higher water levels the use of sea water world wide de salinizing it will become much more prevalent in years to come as fresh water consumption rises and natural water courses disappear. It will become one of the human race's major consumption problems in years to come.

[selby]

  Talking of one of the best predicters on Covid, and hey presto the font of all knowledge. the Christmas cancelling expert himself.

[River Don]

I don't know about all that Selby, what I do know is personally I am experiencing weather conditions that don't seem right. Right now all the summer flowers are blooming early because it feels like summer has started early again.

But beyond our own little patch we are seeing extreme fire seasons all around the globe. Canada, California, Siberia, Iberia, Scandinavia and Australia. This spring temperatures in Northern India and Pakistan are extreme already. We see the ice melt everywhere. I just don't believe these sorts of things are just a coincidence. They are real and seem to be growing in severity year by year.

I know that's not scientific but the global temperature charts are.

[selby]

  The save the world educated idiots might not know but India have purchased 250% more oil and gas since the war in Ukraine started and at a discount, and are saying to the rest of the world, you look after your patch , we will look after ourselves.
  And get ready the banks will push up interest rates, they have done it all my life every 15 years or so let the mortgage debt get big on fairly low rates and then hit it with rate rises.
  The youngsters having one or two holidays abroad a year, a BMW or MERC on the drive, all the latest gadgets, and living beyond their means will have to pick up the tab now.
   I can't see the bankers being left out of the big profit game, there will be more pain coming along for the chancers.
  Could walking to school become more popular instead of the school run at last?

[albie]

Selby,

Much ado about nothing...what does this have to do with Sunak and the Energy Profits Levy?
Some facts to consider;
https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-cutting-the-green-crap-has-added-2-5bn-to-uk-energy-bills/

As an aside, what do you think the UK should do to reduce consumer energy bills, and respond to climate change?

[selby]

  Albie I would make it a matter of planning that all new buildings would have to have solar energy and the facility to export excessive energy into the grid, and that would include all massive ware houses.
  All new buildings to have triple glazing and no direct entrances with triple door entrances also which is common in the Scandinavian countries.
  Rain water collection tanks built into estates for agricultural  and industrial purposes and washing. Install many more water turbines in water courses and connect them to the grid, they are relatively easily maintained work 24hrs and can generate and be used in different sized water courses, there are quite a few installed in Wales on small water courses that serve small villages and a larger one in the river Aire near Methley next to a flood wear.
  I would look to move away from EV's to Hydrogen cars and Vehicles unless the manufacturers moved to self charging EV's while in motion which would reduce the need to stop to charge the batteries.
  Build the RR mini Nuclear power stations, and push for nuclear fusion.
  Generate more electricity with incinerators burning waste and would generally look at every way we could generate electricity cheaply.
  Introduce pay per mile road tax, and make public transport cheap and accessible by taxing a cup of coffee a pound a cup, beer is taxed all coffee is imported is just water and powder and anyone willing to pay £2-80p plus for a cup and half a beer is £2 and includes tax deserves to pay over the odds.

[albie]

A much better response Selby, with some good points.
Still not clear on the Energy Profits Levy plan from your point of view, and how energy costs can be made more affordable short term.

Some problems though;
1)
Hydrogen cars are a niche market which has been squeezed by the fall in battery costs.
They may have a role when green hydrogen is available, but it is more likely to gain a foothold in industries like steel production.

All the big vehicle manufacturers are committed to EV going forwards.

2)
The RR small modular nuclear do not yet exist.
It is a research project a long way from production, with no indication of costs.

3)
Waste incineration turns organic carbon to carbon dioxide at the point of combustion, which adds to greenhouse gases.

All incinerators use propane burners, so the net energy balance needs to account for this.
Using the products of fossil fuel industries, such as plastics, to generate energy is the same as burning those fuels direct.

Much better to recycle these products as feedstocks for other industries, reducing the demand for new resources.

Agree on the rest.
Public transport promotion and road tax per mile are obvious solutions.

If we agree that road tax per mile is a sensible option, then can we agree that rail fares per mile should also be encouraged? After all, we want the price between modes to be fully understood by all, don't we?

[selby]

  Albie, Hydrogen is on the back burner because the industry has already committed to batteries and spent big bucks not because it is better for the customers, and is miles behind in infrastructure, and its main selling point it is cheaper will be tested when in about seven years the power train starts to drain big time and the cars are next to worthless.
  The ones to suffer will be the enthusiasts who rushed in and splashed out at the novelty.
  Combustion in incinerators is being improved all the time with higher temperatures and metals being available and are being used more and more. The nuclear mini stations want to be pushed quickly as does fusion as there is a possible large market and fusion is the dream and only big investment would get the best out of them so the government has a role to play.

[albie]

Selby,

Nobody in the auto industry agrees with you about hydrogen for cars, that is just the reality of the market direction of the sector.  Far from being worthless, the batteries are the most valuable element in an EV, and have secondary uses.

You seem to think that batteries will remain as at present, when in truth the development of new battery capability is moving at lightening speed. There is minimal hydrogen infrastructure in the UK for vehicles.

RR do not have regulatory approval yet for small modular reactors. Construction time is given as 6 years by RR, should the regulation and finance hurdles be overcome. They are not a likely solution in this decade.

SMR are pitched at private investor capital according to RR on their site, but in the UK private venture capital has declined conventional nuclear on grounds of cost.

To make a business case, RR need to show that they could match the falling cost of electricity production from wind and solar.
These are about 4x cheaper than ordinary nuclear at the moment, and that gap is widening.

I thought you were a market capitalist, but some of the solutions you prefer have no support from the investment community.

[albie]

Decent summary of the missed opportunity of the Energy Profits Levy here;
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/may/31/sunak-uk-oil-subsidy-could-have-insulated-2m-homes-says-thinktank

If it were really about helping low income groups with energy costs, then this is the direction which should have been taken.

[BobG]

Reading that, Albie, you really do have to wonder what the hell is going on in Government these days. Surely they can't be as stupid as to think the 91% tax break is a good policy? If we believe that, then what other reasons are there?  Favours for friends? Or selves? Can anyone think of ANY other reason that isn't as mendacious as these two? I can't.

BobG

[albie]

It used to be called pandering, Bob.
Special favours for "special interests", it is a hallmark of this government.

Labour were no better, with Reeves replying to Sunak cheering copying Labour policies, seemingly unaware of Thatcher and windfall taxes from the early eighties, or the wider energy poverty implications. The woman is as dull as dogshit.

Selby won't want to read this piece in New Scientist, which gives some detail on the waste created by small modular reactors;
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2322252-mini-nuclear-power-stations-may-produce-more-waste-than-large-ones/

That should sink the ship with private venture capital for good.

[SydneyRover]

Labor in Oz attempted to gain govt by your prescription method Albie and posted every policy under the sun which allowed the government and murdoch to tear it all to pieces and we got morrison.

Albo changed all that, he 'shadowed' the govt, low key and determined and is now in power with a majority. I don't expect anyone to follow Oz politics but if you do you will see hopefully politics off the front page. If he gets it right his next term will be the one where he is allowed by the public to turn to the left.

Politics is a long game, I thought you would understand that.

[SydneyRover]

''This $30 billion project plans to power Singapore with Australian solar''

''The project, led by Sun Cable, aims to provide 3.2 gigawatts of dispatchable electricity, through 4200 km of high voltage direct current (HVDC) submarine cable and 12,500 hectares of solar arrays. It could power up to 15 per cent of Singapore’s electricity needs from 2028''

https://createdigital.org.au/30-billion-australia-asia-powerlink-project/

Most of the technology for this type of generation and transmission is already here.

[albie]

Really not seeing your point, Syd (post 43)...how does the election in Oz relate to the Energy Profits Levy, or Rachel Reeves failure to understand what Sunak was doing?

There is a big difference between keeping your powder dry and simply failing to understand what is on the table!

Reeves was outflanked by Sunak from the left, with a much bigger package of consumer support than Labour proposed.
She failed to demand Ofgem reduce the price cap, did not understand the negative impact of the 91p in the £ tax incentive, and still thinks that the private model of the energy sector can be made to work.

Latest from the shadow treasury team is a push back against the good sections of the Sunak announcement, the call to show helping low income groups does not cause inflation;
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/may/30/labour-urges-spending-watchdog-assess-impact-chancellors-21bn-package

This is just nonsense.
The £21bn cost of living emergency package will have a low impact on inflation, relative to other actions, and substantial borrowing is a good thing if it brings relief to fuel poverty.

[SydneyRover]

Let me know when the tories start to take dictation from labour Albie and I'll mark it in my diary.

[albie]

Right on cue, the UK govt is announces approval for new gas extraction with the Shell Jackdaw project, rejected in October before Cop26.
https://www.greenpeace.org.uk/news/jackdaw-permit-greenpeace-reaction/

Despite the excuse that the gas will help to offset Russian gas, it will in reality be sold on international markets.
The timing during the four-day Jubilee weekend speaks volumes.

It shows the tension between climate change policies, and energy costs and security issues.
A solution that meets both objectives is available at lower cost than this subsidy to the fossil industry.

Unleash the lawyers!

[BobG]

Reading that, Albie, you really do have to wonder what the hell is going on in Government these days. Surely they can't be as stupid as to think the 91% tax break is a good policy? If we believe that, then what other reasons are there?  Favours for friends? Or selves? Can anyone think of ANY other reason that isn't as mendacious as these two? I can't.

BobG

I note that in 2 full days nobody, nobody, has put forward a single reason why our beloved Government has implemented this 91% tax break for an industry the government is committed to phasing out asap. BB is noticeably absent for one. We can only conclude therefore that, somewhere, this is yet more corruption from the most corrupt government this country has seen in not quite 200 years.

BobG

[wilts rover]

Bob, I am going to take a wild stab in the dark here - but might it have something to do with the £ millions in funding people connected with the fossil fuel industry have donated to Johnson & the Tory Party?

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/fresh-sleaze-claims-tories-take-25439527

[BobG]

Ooh! I never thought of that!

Bob

[SydneyRover]

With the added advantage of a war with those that want action on global warming.

'woke, sciency, lefties want to let the british public freeze'

'poor british families, teachers, nurses, cannot afford to fry chips'

[albie]

Boris and his boys may be partial to a bung, and bribery and corruption may be part of the business expenses of the fossil industry, but there is also a bigger problem at play.

The energy multinationals make their money on units of energy sold....the higher the price per unit, the greater the profit return.

So they have zero interest in demand reduction, or energy efficiency.
If the UK insulated its leaky older housing, and put high energy efficiency standards into codes for new build, the likes of Shell and BP would have a lower domestic demand for their product.

Now if B+C is the method of getting Bozo onside, then preventing energy efficiency becomes as important as the green light for new exploration.

So hit the poor and middle income groups with a triple whammy....
1) avoid the windfall tax by getting consumers to foot the bill for new exploration and development costs,
2) crank up the bills with Ofgem allowing the price increases,
3) and continue to sell the fossil fuel to the uninsulated customers.

Lock in this model for the energy sector by including some new nuclear, with high costs per unit index linked into the future, and you have a roadmap to rising returns.....Eye watering infrastructure cost borne by the public purse, of course!

Until the climate emergency really kicks ass at least.

[SydneyRover]

Very well put Albie

[BobG]

I think you should endeavour to spread your message to a far wider audience Albie.  Complex subjects made intelligible, sense, practicality and an eye for the rtidiculous in both political posturing and political action. The world needs you to speak loudly Albie.

BobG

[albie]

Cheers Bob, thanks for that.

I do post stuff elsewhere, but it is very handy to put things here to see the reaction from a range of perspectives. The pushback sometimes shows something interesting.

We all start as Rovers fans, but in here we get to explore different topics and understand how others see the world.

One of the big plusses of the internet, if folk can step back from being rude to someone because they see things differently to you.

[drfchound]

Albie, the big problem on here is that too many posters only see their side of the argument and hardly ever understand that other people have a different point of view which to them is perfectly reasonable.
Insults are commonplace too.