Don't Pay UK

[BillyStubbsTears]

BST,

"Who are you going to tax? By how much?"

Your question has been answered several times already....energy production companies (the big 6) via an energy profits cap (permanent, not a temporary windfall tax), and high gas consumption via tiered pricing structures.

And as I've said, over and over again, that doesn't sole the problem.

Half of our gas comes from abroad. We cannot dictate the price for that gas (because the suppliers will sell it to Germany for $x/m^3 if we only offer to pay half that). And we cannot tax companies that aren't British or operating in Britain.

You could (and I think, should) confiscate ALL the excess profits of British gas extractors and you'd still only have enough money to subsidise half of our gas.

[albie]

Incorrect, I'm afraid, Billy.

The UK does not require a fixed volume of gas going forwards, demand is subject to change as well as supply.

If the UK severs the link between gas and electricity prices, making leccy cheaper, some demand will transfer over.
If the UK reserves future North Sea gas for domestic use, via energy export tariff or levies, then the import requirement reduces.

Do both of these, and you are dealing with a net reduction in gas demand.
This reduction will increase over time, as heating system costs for electric decline with scale.
The aim is for the UK to need a lower percentage import for a reduced total demand.

Talking about the current percentage of gas imports misses the point by a mile.
What matters is the total amount required that is not covered by existing contract commitments....in other words, the future exposure to international wholesale fluctuations.

Some short term deficit funding is fine, provided that it goes into reforming the system rather than supporting higher unit charges and zombie suppliers.

Labour got to first base with the price cap, then failed to double down on the possibilities that the price cap enables...completely brain dead!

Public services such as the NHS and schools have no budget for these increases, and will not be able to meet these costs.

Still waiting to hear BST how you plan to prevent inflation from spiralling, and resolving the existing energy debt problem.

[phil old leake]

That’s a really good idea BST confiscate profit from companies investing in the UK   

That will really improve the economic plight we are in and make the UK an attractive place to invest

[tyke1962]

That’s a really good idea BST confiscate profit from companies investing in the UK   

That will really improve the economic plight we are in and make the UK an attractive place to invest

Well someone is going to have to pay Phil because as sure as it's Monday tomorrow a massive amount of people simply aren't going to be able to pay their bill .

The amount of small businesses who are going to go under will be catastrophic because they aren't covered by the cap .

I read the other day that a modest fish n chip shop if they passed the extra costs on to the customer would see them charging £9 for a bag of chips .

If something doesn't give and pretty sharpish it's proper going to go up on the streets in this country .

[SydneyRover]

Yep, they'll have to back to lard

[albie]

Still no significant change from the political class.

Truss/Sunak playing to the golf club gallery, talking about removing green levies, as though that is remotely a good response.

Keith/Reeves still reciting their windfall tax mantra, despite it being blindingly obvious that it is completely inadequate.

How did we come to be in hock to these nonentities?

What really annoys me is that Labour are leaving themselves exposed to a Tory reaction once Truss is in place, and then they will be playing follow my leader yet again.

[wilts rover]

Still no significant change from the political class.

Truss/Sunak playing to the golf club gallery, talking about removing green levies, as though that is remotely a good response.

Keith/Reeves still reciting their windfall tax mantra, despite it being blindingly obvious that it is completely inadequate.

How did we come to be in hock to these nonentities?

What really annoys me is that Labour are leaving themselves exposed to a Tory reaction once Truss is in place, and then they will be playing follow my leader yet again.

By how much is it completely inadequate Albie?

Since Labour announced their figures gas prices have increased a further 40% and electricity futures reached a record high today. That means the gas and electricty supply companies who have been making £billions so far this year for entirely no extra cost will also see another big rise in their windfall profits.

https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/new-shock-european-markets-gas-price-spike-fuels-inflation-fears-2022-08-24/

https://www.france24.com/en/economy/20220826-europe-s-electricity-prices-hit-record-high-as-supply-cuts-begin-to-bite

[BillyStubbsTears]

Wilts.

But our next PM has said it is socialist error to tax profits. She's totally ruled out a windfall tax.

Remember that when the Govt has to borrow billions to help people survive the winter. That borrowing will be directly subsidising BP and Shell profits. And we'll all have to pay that off for years.

[albie]

Wilts,

We know the medium range and longer term forecasts, and we know that some of the uncertainties around those indicate a worsening rather than relief.

Labour should have known the limits to their policy at the time it was promoted. It was nothing like sufficient then, and to not move forwards with an alternative is complacent and shows a deep lack of understanding of the energy economy.

It is less a question of "how Much", and more a question of "as much as it takes". In the wake of that commitment you also look to reform the industry to reflect the public interest.

It is completely inadequate to keep reciting a policy formula which will not address any of the structural issues.
Reeves was interviewed on the BBC and kept to the obsolete script like a bot, without any grasp of what is needed.

There is no public interest in shoring up the privatised energy sector, which is just a channel to syphon off resources to shareholders.
Labour seem to think a 6 month plan to preserve the present framework is adequate....it falls so far short that it really will not touch the sides of a major economic meltdown.

Nothing for example on social tariffs, or on separating the energy pricing of electricity from gas wholesale.
No plan to set up a public supplier at cost, focussed on renewables.

The point is that Labour need to get on the front foot, and start the conversation about change.
There is low hanging fruit to be picked, and Labour are just waiting for the Tories to pick it.....really poor political positioning, as well as tokenism on the everyday cost of living question.

[wilts rover]

Wilts,

We know the medium range and longer term forecasts, and we know that some of the uncertainties around those indicate a worsening rather than relief.

Labour should have known the limits to their policy at the time it was promoted. It was nothing like sufficient then, and to not move forwards with an alternative is complacent and shows a deep lack of understanding of the energy economy.

It is less a question of "how Much", and more a question of "as much as it takes". In the wake of that commitment you also look to reform the industry to reflect the public interest.

It is completely inadequate to keep reciting a policy formula which will not address any of the structural issues.
Reeves was interviewed on the BBC and kept to the obsolete script like a bot, without any grasp of what is needed.

There is no public interest in shoring up the privatised energy sector, which is just a channel to syphon off resources to shareholders.
Labour seem to think a 6 month plan to preserve the present framework is adequate....it falls so far short that it really will not touch the sides of a major economic meltdown.

Nothing for example on social tariffs, or on separating the energy pricing of electricity from gas wholesale.
No plan to set up a public supplier at cost, focussed on renewables.

The point is that Labour need to get on the front foot, and start the conversation about change.
There is low hanging fruit to be picked, and Labour are just waiting for the Tories to pick it.....really poor political positioning, as well as tokenism on the everyday cost of living question.

I agree Labour need to get on the front foot and lead the conversation. I would like to see them push for nationalisation of all public utilities - but thats not going to happen under a Tory government.

Labour have put a costed plan forward to assist people with their engery bills this winter. Since they put the plan forward the amout they would raise from a windfall tax has risen.

You said this was totaly inadequate. There is no point playing fantasy politics in a crises. Why is what Labour have proposed the Tories should do now - immediately - totally inadequate?

[SydneyRover]

Didn't corbyn throw the kitchen sink at the last election, how did that go down Albie?

[albie]

Wilts,

I answered your point in the previous post;
"Nothing for example on social tariffs, or on separating the energy pricing of electricity from gas wholesale.
No plan to set up a public supplier at cost, focussed on renewables".

The windfall tax will not cover the need to reform the sector.
Leaving the system untouched means that the zombie companies will remain on life support, kept going by higher prices but adding no value to the system economics.

[albie]

At last, a challenge to the useless regulator Ofgem in the courts;
https://twitter.com/GoodLawProject/status/1563146547834957824

Lets hope this succeeds, and they are forced to produce an impact assessment of their proposals.

It is beyond belief that we could have reached this point without a forward assessment of wider impacts.
How can Ofgem claim to be acting in the interests of consumers if they have not even conducted (and published) this analysis?

It also shows how poor the response has been from politicians that they have not requested this information from Ofgem themselves.

The "Don't Pay" campaign will have more solid grounds for their position if Ofgem are found to have failed to follow due process.

[tyke1962]

At last, a challenge to the useless regulator Ofgem in the courts;
https://twitter.com/GoodLawProject/status/1563146547834957824

Lets hope this succeeds, and they are forced to produce an impact assessment of their proposals.

It is beyond belief that we could have reached this point without a forward assessment of wider impacts.
How can Ofgem claim to be acting in the interests of consumers if they have not even conducted (and published) this analysis?

It also shows how poor the response has been from politicians that they have not requested this information from Ofgem themselves.

The "Don't Pay" campaign will have more solid grounds for their position if Ofgem are found to have failed to follow due process.

Reported on Novara Media yesterday too .

https://youtu.be/o2jOmL828GM

[tyke1962]

I also understand the Trade Unions are coordinating industrial action and forming what could probably be described as an Alliance to achieve the maximum impact with their demands .

This action isn't to be mistaken for secondary picketing which of course is illegal .

I also understand a day of action is planned for Saturday October 1st by " The Enough Is Enough " campaign across the major cities .

[SydneyRover]

At last, a challenge to the useless regulator Ofgem in the courts;
https://twitter.com/GoodLawProject/status/1563146547834957824

Lets hope this succeeds, and they are forced to produce an impact assessment of their proposals.

It is beyond belief that we could have reached this point without a forward assessment of wider impacts.
How can Ofgem claim to be acting in the interests of consumers if they have not even conducted (and published) this analysis?

It also shows how poor the response has been from politicians that they have not requested this information from Ofgem themselves.

The "Don't Pay" campaign will have more solid grounds for their position if Ofgem are found to have failed to follow due process.

Goodlawproject, great organisation.

[scawsby steve]

I don't know in what form it will take, but there's definitely some sort of revolution coming.

This situation we're all in now just isn't sustainable.

If the establishment can't see this, they're in for a f*cking surprise.

[tyke1962]

I don't know in what form it will take, but there's definitely some sort of revolution coming.

This situation we're all in now just isn't sustainable.

If the establishment can't see this, they're in for a f*cking surprise.

There's defiantly more than a hint of the powers that be for want of a better term are so detached from its people they are literally sleep walking in to what could potentially be civil disorder on a scale not seen since 1990 .

The trick of course was always to just about give enough to enough people to keep them from going on to the streets .

We are extremely close to that not happening .

[SydneyRover]

don't you just love it from the herd, labour labour labour blah blah blah, please give examples, blah, bla, bl, b, 0.

[scawsby steve]

don't you just love it from the herd, labour labour labour blah blah blah, please give examples, blah, bla, bl, b, 0.

What on Earth are you blathering on about?

FFS, Syd, take some Diazepam.

[SydneyRover]

don't you just love it from the herd, labour labour labour blah blah blah, please give examples, blah, bla, bl, b, 0.

What on Earth are you blathering on about?

FFS, Syd, take some Diazepam.

if you don't know why are your knickers in a twist again?