The failings of a formation

[Canadian Rover]

We've all discussed the shortcomings of the midfield and how we are overran and don't get enough possession or creativity. I see this as a fault of the formation.

We are playing 5 at the back (not 3) Seaman and Maxwell aren't giving enough to support play in the middle and offer very little in terms of pressing and closing down of the opposition wide midfielders. Our wingbacks drop back and defend into their natural positions of fullbacks. The wingers Molyneux and Hurst feel they are attackers (almost Sterling/Salah like in position) and they do not work against the opposition midfield but are primarily responsible for the opposition full back.

This leaves our midfield 2 of Close and Biggins as a 2 vs 4 or 5 at times and they are chasing shadows and when they are in possession have little short options to pass to other than going backwards.

The team are playing with a 5 at the back and not a 3 the wingback system is ineffective.

Until the middle can be higher in numbers we will continue to lose or as per last night be over ran in midfield and have little possession as shown against a very very poor Rochdale team.

That's my take would like to hear others.

[danumdon]

I think you've pretty much answered the issue yourself, its not the formation so much as the personnel.

Due to our obvious weakness in midfield DS has been attempting to increase the numbers in there by playing a wingback system, unfortunately for him the key personnel that we currently have in the club are out injured, im talking about people like Olowu, Rowe and Younger. If these players were available for selection it would allow and free up players like Knoyle to play wingback, who is by far the best attacking right wingback we have.On the left we are relying very much on a very young, new and inexperienced Maxwell to do the same, that he's been getting picked pretty much every match tells you how much DS is investing in him to play the position, unto now he's made a decent stab at it.

To me the wingback position for a side that wants to play this formation is the most important position on the pitch, with two good wingbacks, bombing up and down the flanks it allows the midfield to get a foothold in the game but also allows your Hurst's and Moly's to push up more , cut inside and run beyond your Miller to allow your attack the best possible chance of capitalising on the breaks that are created, if the wingback are not good enough or tied down to defending due to a weak central three then the whole system gets bogged down, you end up playing 5 at the back with the central midfield overrun and the lone striker isolated and running his nuts into the ground for no reward, something similar to what we have just now.

I would say that in this window its important to get an experienced left wingback to take the pressure of Maxwell and allow him time to adjust and grow into the position, a big, strong and pacy left sided centre half would also be a massive plus as that would cover the left allowing currently Anderson and Williams to cover the centre and right sides of the three, this would free up Knoyle who to me is a massive loss from that position, he was totally wasted last night in a game where if he'd been allowed he could of tore that right flank to shreds for us, Seamen another young inexperienced player tried for us but like Maxwell needs time to grow.

So wingbacks are are most important requirement and we need them reinforcing in this window. I'd say an experienced left sided back, and central defender plus a big, strong, creative box to box player who can tackle for the central midfield would totally transform this side.

The right money spent in this window on these positions could i think save our season, its not to late to still challenge and get out of this god forsaken league.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

A very good summary that danumdon.

Agree it's more about the personnel and being able to adapt on the pitch and do their jobs. We can equally be poor in a 4 4 2 or a 4 3 3, if the players are not playing with the right intensity and desire.

Like you say, there are a couple of key signings we need plus some other jiggling about with players who aren't going anywhere with us, so we can get Kyle Knoyle back into his preferred position pronto.

It only takes a couple of tweaks here and there to raise the standard and get the best out of the rest of the players.

[Canadian Rover]

Can you really see us signing another centre half this January?

Anderson, Williams, Oluwu, Younger, Faulkner, Long.

Plus Rowe + Knoyle (who maybe Danny sees as centre halves)

It will be interesting to see what we do in January. I wonder what system Huddersfield played during Danny's time coaching and managing.

[steve@dcfd]

343 answer

[Chris Black come back]

Unless Rowe is out for a long time, I wouldn’t be investing in another left sided senior player.

If we really have to bring in more bodies then it is a central midfielder and then a central striker as priorities.

The defence is a terrible unit but we’ve got so many on the books that we are just going to have to make them work better, rather than wasting yet more money.

[sedwardsdrfc]

This is how I saw the problem. Maxwell in particular was starting way too deep in the press meaning he never go close to their player. Then we have 3 centre backs marking what 1 striker?

To have a 3 work all of them have to be able to come out of their position and engage wingers or midfielders. Or else we just have too many players way too deep to get near them.

We had the players on the pitch to just go 4411 or 4231 with Knoyle playing as a proper right back and Molyneux coming into a 10 position. The game was crying out for it after the 1st half.

I like the bigger picture of what Schofield wants to achieve but I’m not sure we’ve the players to do it

[DonnyOsmond]

343 answer

We play 3-4-3 in possession.

[danumdon]

Can you really see us signing another centre half this January?

Anderson, Williams, Oluwu, Younger, Faulkner, Long.

Plus Rowe + Knoyle (who maybe Danny sees as centre halves)

It will be interesting to see what we do in January. I wonder what system Huddersfield played during Danny's time coaching and managing.

I can't see it unless we can offload some already on the books.

When i look at that list i ask myself how many of them could be useful to us at the higher level, that would be my minimum criteria for any of them.

As things stand it's hard to pick out a full complement. We've suffered with a very porous defence for the last three years plus, and its not been addressed with the additions we made, we are desperate for an experienced left back, could you imagine a Reece James in our setup now on the left with Knoyle on the right as attacking wingbacks, throw in a Mills type of young centre back to complement them and our defence and attacking from deep would be massively transformed.

Something would have to happen soon anyway as most will be out of contract by the end of the season.

Do it now and hit the ground running.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

This is how I saw the problem. Maxwell in particular was starting way too deep in the press meaning he never go close to their player. Then we have 3 centre backs marking what 1 striker?

To have a 3 work all of them have to be able to come out of their position and engage wingers or midfielders. Or else we just have too many players way too deep to get near them.

We had the players on the pitch to just go 4411 or 4231 with Knoyle playing as a proper right back and Molyneux coming into a 10 position. The game was crying out for it after the 1st half.

I like the bigger picture of what Schofield wants to achieve but I’m not sure we’ve the players to do it

Would agree with Maxwell. Sometimes neither here nor there. He's not really shown to be a tough tackling Scot I hoped he would be and, isn't lighting things up going forward either. Yet, I think there is a player in there.

Said the same about Knoyle who has pace to burn but rarely used it, then all of a sudden this season, he's blossomed. It seems to take a while for players to settle and find the confidence to do what they're capable of consistently. For that reason, I think we should give Maxwell the benefit of doubt. Similar with Hurst who can be quite weak in possession, losing the ball too easily. We need to be patient and give them the game time they need to develop.

[danumdon]

This is how I saw the problem. Maxwell in particular was starting way too deep in the press meaning he never go close to their player. Then we have 3 centre backs marking what 1 striker?

To have a 3 work all of them have to be able to come out of their position and engage wingers or midfielders. Or else we just have too many players way too deep to get near them.

We had the players on the pitch to just go 4411 or 4231 with Knoyle playing as a proper right back and Molyneux coming into a 10 position. The game was crying out for it after the 1st half.

I like the bigger picture of what Schofield wants to achieve but I’m not sure we’ve the players to do it

Would agree with Maxwell. Sometimes neither here nor there. He's not really shown to be a tough tackling Scot I hoped he would be and, isn't lighting things up going forward either. Yet, I think there is a player in there.

Said the same about Knoyle who has pace to burn but rarely used it, then all of a sudden this season, he's blossomed. It seems to take a while for players to settle and find the confidence to do what they're capable of consistently. For that reason, I think we should give Maxwell the benefit of doubt. Similar with Hurst who can be quite weak in possession, losing the ball too easily. We need to be patient and give them the game time they need to develop.

Fully agree, players like Maxwell and Hurst are having their first real stab in the mens league in England, i would certainly persevere with them as they still have development in them, the situation is a bit like Faulkner really, do we blood them now steadily or do we throw them in  and hope for the best, we've done it for two but not the other one?

[mushRTID]

This is how I saw the problem. Maxwell in particular was starting way too deep in the press meaning he never go close to their player. Then we have 3 centre backs marking what 1 striker?

To have a 3 work all of them have to be able to come out of their position and engage wingers or midfielders. Or else we just have too many players way too deep to get near them.

We had the players on the pitch to just go 4411 or 4231 with Knoyle playing as a proper right back and Molyneux coming into a 10 position. The game was crying out for it after the 1st half.

I like the bigger picture of what Schofield wants to achieve but I’m not sure we’ve the players to do it

Would agree with Maxwell. Sometimes neither here nor there. He's not really shown to be a tough tackling Scot I hoped he would be and, isn't lighting things up going forward either. Yet, I think there is a player in there.

Said the same about Knoyle who has pace to burn but rarely used it, then all of a sudden this season, he's blossomed. It seems to take a while for players to settle and find the confidence to do what they're capable of consistently. For that reason, I think we should give Maxwell the benefit of doubt. Similar with Hurst who can be quite weak in possession, losing the ball too easily. We need to be patient and give them the game time they need to develop.

Fully agree, players like Maxwell and Hurst are having their first real stab in the mens league in England, i would certainly persevere with them as they still have development in them, the situation is a bit like Faulkner really, do we blood them now steadily or do we throw them in  and hope for the best, we've done it for two but not the other one?

Let’s be honest, if we had the top end squad we should have/are hoping for…Maxwell and Hurst are every bit squad players at this stage of their careers.

[BobG]

For those with grey beards they will all know very well that youngsters often need quite a bit of time before blossoming. Peter Kitchen was dog poo in his first 18 months. Happily the managers of the time ignored the countless number of experts on the terraces.

BobG

[danumdon]

Yes, that’s called experience, we can’t give a youngster any but in the meantime they can sure benefit from someone else’s.

[Sammy Chung was King]

If you play three at the back the full backs become very important. Ours just aren’t producing enough quality. Maxwell has the ability we need to see more from him. Knoyle is wasted at centre back, we negate his ability to impact on the game playing him there.