Simple arithmetic and that renewable energy debate

[Viking Don]

It was a while ago now I know, but someone sent me a link to this series of youtube vids of a lecture by Albert Bartlett. There's 8 of them each about 10 minutes long so if you've got an hour or so to kill have a look at them, maybe give the X factor a miss or something.

A word of warning, it's very basic maths, but most people lose interest after the first part, so if you have the attention span of a goldfish I wouldn't bother.

Get those solar panels NOW, you've got until next March before the feed-in tariff drops...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY

[Filo]

It was a while ago now I know, but someone sent me a link to this series of youtube vids of a lecture by Albert Bartlett. There's 8 of them each about 10 minutes long so if you've got an hour or so to kill have a look at them, maybe give the X factor a miss or something.

A word of warning, it's very basic maths, but most people lose interest after the first part, so if you have the attention span of a goldfish I wouldn't bother.

Get those solar panels NOW, you've got until next March before the feed-in tariff drops...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY

OK if you`ve got a south facing roof, us west facers will have to subsidise you

[Nudga]

It was a while ago now I know, but someone sent me a link to this series of youtube vids of a lecture by Albert Bartlett. There's 8 of them each about 10 minutes long so if you've got an hour or so to kill have a look at them, maybe give the X factor a miss or something.

A word of warning, it's very basic maths, but most people lose interest after the first part, so if you have the attention span of a goldfish I wouldn't bother.

Get those solar panels NOW, you've got until next March before the feed-in tariff drops...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY

OK if you`ve got a south facing roof, us west facers will have to subsidise you

West is fine Filo, south westerly roofs are better like.

[Thinwhiteduke]

It was a while ago now I know, but someone sent me a link to this series of youtube vids of a lecture by Albert Bartlett. There's 8 of them each about 10 minutes long so if you've got an hour or so to kill have a look at them, maybe give the X factor a miss or something.

A word of warning, it's very basic maths, but most people lose interest after the first part, so if you have the attention span of a goldfish I wouldn't bother.

Get those solar panels NOW, you've got until next March before the feed-in tariff drops...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY

Gone through this with a few of those 'install for free' companies, I have a south facing roof on a semi detached house, they ain interestes because the roof is ' the wrong shape' for their installation / number of panels they want to install (why they cannot install less panels of a betterr quality / yield I do not know).

I cant afford to lay out the cost myself, and therefore, despite being really keen on renewables as much from a environmental point of view as a cost one, I am f**ked over all ends up.

Guess if I was unemployed and claiming a shed load of benefits it'd be a different story.

They'll be no big take up on renewable energy in this country unil they make it affordable for all.

[Thinwhiteduke]

It was a while ago now I know, but someone sent me a link to this series of youtube vids of a lecture by Albert Bartlett. There's 8 of them each about 10 minutes long so if you've got an hour or so to kill have a look at them, maybe give the X factor a miss or something.

A word of warning, it's very basic maths, but most people lose interest after the first part, so if you have the attention span of a goldfish I wouldn't bother.

Get those solar panels NOW, you've got until next March before the feed-in tariff drops...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY

OK if you`ve got a south facing roof, us west facers will have to subsidise you

West is fine Filo, south westerly roofs are better like.

Nudga.

Is it yourself who installs wood burning stoves etc?

Seen as Im stuck in this godforsaken country for as far as the forseeable future Im wanting to consider havving the electric fire that currently sites in our fireplace taken out and one os those installed, potentially to heat the hot water as well if do-able??

[Viking Don]

TWD - the reason they won't install on your house is because they can pick the best properties for the free installations, so they get the best returns on THEIR investment. They could install fewer panels but they won't as the installation costs alone mean that they're better off fitting a minimum of 18 (I think), to get a better return for the initial outlay.

Also, if you're employed and serious about wanting the panels then you could try getting a bank loan, as most banks are pretty well clued up about the returns the scheme will reap over the next 25 years, meaning you'll get the FREE electricity, pay off the loan in about 12 years (using the money the panels will be earning for you) and then still get the feed-in tariff for the next 13 years (about £1200 per year at todays rate, but that's index linked so it'll be a lot more in 12 years time).

The price of fuel is going to rocket as the supply of fossil fuels dwindle in the next 25 years, it really is a no-brainer, that's really what the youtube link is going on about, not solar power.

However, if you're unemployed and claiming benefits I very much doubt that you'd get them, I don't think there's any claim you can make for solar panels, other than about £500 towards the cost, which I think is open to everyone.

[Thinwhiteduke]

TWD - the reason they won't install on your house is because they can pick the best properties for the free installations, so they get the best returns on THEIR investment. They could install fewer panels but they won't as the installation costs alone mean that they're better off fitting a minimum of 18 (I think), to get a better return for the initial outlay.

Also, if you're employed and serious about wanting the panels then you could try getting a bank loan, as most banks are pretty well clued up about the returns the scheme will reap over the next 25 years, meaning you'll get the FREE electricity, pay off the loan in about 12 years (using the money the panels will be earning for you) and then still get the feed-in tariff for the next 13 years (about £1200 per year at todays rate, but that's index linked so it'll be a lot more in 12 years time).

The price of fuel is going to rocket as the supply of fossil fuels dwindle in the next 25 years, it really is a no-brainer, that's really what the youtube link is going on about, not solar power.

However, if you're unemployed and claiming benefits I very much doubt that you'd get them, I don't think there's any claim you can make for solar panels, other than about £500 towards the cost, which I think is open to everyone.

All well and good fella, however...

- We have just remortgaged as our five year fixed came to an  end last Oct and I wont be able to borrow more on that due to equity (shitty housing market).

- Understandably dubious about another loan in the current climate if I could get one at all as I already have one running.

Hard times...believe me Im interested, and if there was a Company out there offering finance (ie. they installed and provided the loan), Id take a serious look at it preoviding the terms were right for me, but I cant find anything like that.

[Thinwhiteduke]

Got these lot ringing me back tomorrow to come and do a survey and give me a quote....

http://www.apollo-solar-panels.com/

..anyone know of anymore reputable Companies so I can compare and contrast.

Dont know how Id pay for it....but the quote is free anyway. I hear in some areas Local Councils offer grants towaards cost, anyone know if thats the case with DMBC?

Could I persuade JR to loan me the money interest free as long as I sign an agreemen to purchase a Season Ticket for as long as my feed in tariff exists (25 years)?

Failing that has anyone gone through this process and knows of any commpanies offering loans at reasonable rates for such installations?

[Viking Don]

Best way to do it is to find someone you know who has savings in the bank. Parents are obviously useful at times. Then offer them a better interest rate than they're currently getting, which is pretty easily done given the current interest rates, 1% or even 2% more is simple. Draw up a loan arrangement with them for say 12 years, then use the money earned from the solar panels to repay them. They will earn a lot more than you will repay and it's guaranteed lolly for 25 years. You won't need to supplement any repayment with your work earnings.

It's better than getting a free installation (as the installers get the lolly) or getting a bank loan (as the bank get's the lolly). This way you get to share the lolly with the person you borrow from and get free electricity.

After going through various scenarios I decided this was the best way as everyone wins. I got mine from Nationwide Solar - if anyone decides they want them then please PM me as I'd get a small referral fee which I'll split 50/50 with you! They will also split the cost with you if you want, but then they get half the lolly for the duration, so it's best to get them outright if at all possible.

But please go SOLAR. The Sun Aint gonna shine anymore is bollox....

WE'VE GOT SEAN

[Nudga]

It was a while ago now I know, but someone sent me a link to this series of youtube vids of a lecture by Albert Bartlett. There's 8 of them each about 10 minutes long so if you've got an hour or so to kill have a look at them, maybe give the X factor a miss or something.

A word of warning, it's very basic maths, but most people lose interest after the first part, so if you have the attention span of a goldfish I wouldn't bother.

Get those solar panels NOW, you've got until next March before the feed-in tariff drops...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY

OK if you`ve got a south facing roof, us west facers will have to subsidise you

West is fine Filo, south westerly roofs are better like.

Nudga.

Is it yourself who installs wood burning stoves etc?

Seen as Im stuck in this godforsaken country for as far as the forseeable future Im wanting to consider havving the electric fire that currently sites in our fireplace taken out and one os those installed, potentially to heat the hot water as well if do-able??

It is mate, PM on it's way.

[ian1980]

Our compnay has just been MCS accredited for the installation of Solar PV systems.

We will be offering the systems with three payment options:

Buy in full - As has been said, if you can fund the system in full, this is by far the best option as you benefit from free electric and the goverments feed in tariffs (the tarrif is  guaranteed for 25 years, c£1200 per year)

* Roughly a system would cost 10k-12k depending on the size, so the feed in tariff will have paid this off in approx 8-10 years. You then get 15-17 years of feed in tariff income and all the time you are also getting free electric.

Self finance - you can arrange your own finance to cover the cost of the installation. Again you benefit from the feed in tariff and free electric from day one.

We would suggest you set up a seperate bank account and have your feed in tariff paid into this account and your loan payments deducted from this account. Then when the loan is cleared, the feed in tariff continues to be paid in and you can use it as a savings/pension fund.

Fit for free - If you haven't got the money to pay for the system in full and either can't or don't want to take out further finance, then we will be offering a fit for free option.

However, unlike the other companies that take ALL your feed in tariff money (for the whole 25 years) we will set it up so that we take the feed in tariff for the first 10years to cover the installation (you will have the benefit of free electric for those 10 years). Then after the ten years when the system has been paid off, the feed in tariff will transfer to you, so you then get 15years of feed in tariff money and the free electric.

Still early days with this so details are limited at the moment. Once its been firmed up I will post more info.

However, if you do want to take out a system under the buy in full, or self finance option, please let me know.

Cheers

[I-was-there1976]

Do you get free electric all day or just in daylight hours ?

[Dagenham Rover]

Ian1980 you have a pm

[Thinwhiteduke]

Ian1980 you have a pm

Ditto.

[Dagenham Rover]

TWD I found Ian pretty \"switched on\":chair: and helpful  about it

[ian1980]

Thanks DR - was nice to talk with you.

TWD - I have replied to your PM.

IWT1976 - no you don't, you only generate power through day light hours however, it's not just about getting the free electric, which although is nice, is only a small part of the investment. You get a generation payment for all the electric you generate through your system, you get reduced electric bills due to the free electric you use, and you also get a fee for suplus electric you feed back into the grid.

Although you only get a small fee for what you feed back (much less then you pay your provider for usage) so your better off setting you appliances to run through the day (while benefitting from the free electric) then you are selling it back to the grid.

I hope this makes sense but I've had a few bevies so if in the morning this is a bit mumbo jumbo, I'll edit tomorrow and add clearer explanations)

[Viking Don]

Thought this thread had died a death...Nice one Ian!

It's even better than that though - so long as you're system is capable of generating less than 30KW then you don't need an export meter - meaning the amount of electricity you feed back into the grid isn't measured. Instead they will pay you an additional export tariff at 50% of what they charge you (they work on the theory that you'll use about half of what you generate) - so at the moment you pay about 8 pence for 1KWh, so for every KWh you generate you'll get 4 pence extra.

That's in addition to the mad 43.5 pence they're paying you anyway, which bumps it up to around 48.5 pence. That's whether you use it or not. You can use it all and still get that amount. Mad init!

Great offer BTW about fitting for free and only taking the first ten years feed in tariff - sounds too good to be true but I'm glad a company has realised that they can still make a profit by offering that.

Go SOLAR!

We've got DEAN...