Budget

[DonnyOsmond]

How are the Tories electable?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Well they clearly are DO.

The bigger question is WHY? When they have given us the most disastrous economic performance for 200 years.

The OBR released figures yesterday that Sunak conveniently ignored.

The ONLY thing that matters to our long term economic health is productivity. If we don't improve the amount we produce per hour, we don't get better off.

Between 1945 and 2009, our productivity increased on average by 2.5% per year. That's important. It meant that, for example, in 1980, an hour of work would produce 28% more value output than the same hour did in 1970.

That's why we get better off.

Anyway, from the OBR's figures, productivity growth from 2009-2019 has been 0.3%.

So in 2019, an hour of work produced just 3% more value than in 2009.

This is a horrific national problem. And not even a word about it in the Budget.

[Monkcaster_Rover]

I work in the Motor Industry & I've come in this morning to see the government grants been reduced & in some cases, completely removed from electric vehicles.

Enjoy your Thursday! I know I will.

[MachoMadness]

Enlightening, this thread. It shows you can kick some people up the arse for 10 years and, when you finally stop, they'll turn around and thank you. Fascinating mindset ingrained in some people.

[Bentley Bullet]

Yep, those who don't think the same as you are really thick.

[idler]

Surely such a seismic change in policy should make anyone question the reasoning behind it BB?

[Bentley Bullet]

Idler, playing the man instead of the ball is often condemned on his forum. Playing millions of people instead of the ball is stretching it a bit! In fact, playing enough people to elect a majority government instead of the ball is taking it to an all-time level!

I've been accused of playing the man instead of the ball in the past. I don't get mad, I just get even.

[SydneyRover]

So getting back to Idlers comment BB?

[Bentley Bullet]

Syderney, the 'seismic change' is a different subject to playing the man instead of the ball.

[SydneyRover]

Syderney, the 'seismic change' is a different subject to playing the man instead of the ball.

Who said it wasn't, it's a fair comment addressed to you.

[Bentley Bullet]

And I answered it!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Surely such a seismic change in policy should make anyone question the reasoning behind it BB?

That's the bit I don't get. This is a shift bigger than anything we've seen in politics since the War. It's massive. The Tories have insisted for decades and they've screamed for the past 12 years that the debt is all that matters. We have to get the debt down.

And then, with the debt at the highest level it has been since before Bobby Moore picked up the World Cup, they turn round without a moment's thought and say, "You know that debt? It's not actually that important."

Which is EXACTLY what people on the Left have been saying for 12 years, ever since the GFC. And they've been accused of not being serious. Of being Marxists. Of being irresponsible. Of being a danger to our children's inheritance.

All b*llocks. Every single word of that criticism was based on b*llocks that ignored basic economics.

So yes, I'm delighted it's changing. But I simply do not understand people who aren't furious that it didn't change 10 years ago. Because Austerity was never about economics. It was the most cynical political con trick of our lifetimes. It was a put up job to give the Tories a stick to beat Labour with. And it worked. And the penalty we have paid is a totally lost decade. And if you don't hold cynical politicians to account when they do that, guess what? They will do it again. And again.

[Not Now Kato]

Yep, those who don't think the same as you are really thick.

There's certainly a strong argument to suggest that maybe those less well off people who voted Tory to 'get brexit done' without knowing what type of brexit was going to get done were BB.

[drfchound]

Enlightening, this thread. It shows you can kick some people up the arse for 10 years and, when you finally stop, they'll turn around and thank you. Fascinating mindset ingrained in some people.

I suppose it could also be that some people weren’t kicked up the arse during the last ten years.

[BillyStubbsTears]

That's right Hound. Pensioners, as a demographic group, did financially better than anyone over the past decade.

I don't begrudge them that. But I do wonder about some of their attitudes to the folks who are working to pay those pensions.

[drfchound]

I have only been retired for just over two years BST but on a personal note, I can’t complain about the ten years before then either.

As for the people who are working to pay the pensioners of today, well I did my fair share of that in the forty eight years that I worked.

[Bentley Bullet]

Yep, those who don't think the same as you are really thick.

There's certainly a strong argument to suggest that maybe those less well off people who voted Tory to 'get brexit done' without knowing what type of brexit was going to get done were BB.

Maybe then you should ask the question of why 'the party for the poor' Labour party deserted their wishes to get Brexit done.

[scawsby steve]

BST, every journey starts with a single step.

Very clear to me.

Shame all the steps in the 2010s were backwards ones.

The third amigo enters the scene.

It's actually four Hound, with NNK making up the quartet of all knowing, all wise sages.

It's strange though how all 4 of them continuously keep backing political losers.

[BillyStubbsTears]

SS.

The great German physicist and astronomer was once asked why he spent his spare time arguing against commonly held ideas like superstition against witches. Why not make his life easier by accepting what the majority thought.

He said, "I always want to be on the side of the majority: unless they are wrong."

Being in a majority, and being right is not always the same thing. You'd do well to ponder that instead of stooping to weak ad hominems.

[scawsby steve]

SS.

The great German physicist and astronomer was once asked why he spent his spare time arguing against commonly held ideas like superstition against witches. Why not make his life easier by accepting what the majority thought.

He said, "I always want to be on the side of the majority: unless they are wrong."

Being in a majority, and being right is not always the same thing. You'd do well to ponder that instead of stooping to weak ad hominems.

Actually you're right; I should stop and think a bit more. After all, you could be Rovers' biggest asset next year. All you have to do is go on BB's PvO competition and tip Rovers to lose every week.

That way we'll be certs to win the f*cking league next season.

[idler]

The problem here is that some people let personalities get in the way of reason.
Just because you don't like or usually agree with a person doesn't mean that they will always be wrong.
Some of the disagreements on here are pathetic.
I hope that in the fullness of time folk can reflect and admit when they are wrong and let personalities colour their views.

[Bentley Bullet]

Idler, I resent that remark. In the unlikely event of me being wr......wro....wron..... incorrect in future, I'll be the first to admit it.  I would have done so already if I'd ever been wro Incorrect in the past.

[idler]

I know what you mean BB, I'm never wr*** either. My wife might tell you that I'm not right a lot of the time though.🤔

[Not Now Kato]

BST, every journey starts with a single step.

Very clear to me.

Shame all the steps in the 2010s were backwards ones.

The third amigo enters the scene.

It's actually four Hound, with NNK making up the quartet of all knowing, all wise sages.

It's strange though how all 4 of them continuously keep backing political losers.

So Steve, you either think that less well off people didn't vote Tory to 'get Brexit done', (in spite of it being the only thing coming from them during the election campaign). Or that they knew exactly which form of Brexit that was going to 'get done' and thought it was a jolly good thing for themselves and the country  then?
 
Whichever one you chose you're going to look rather daft, unless of course you agree with me; but then, what would have been the point of your post?

[SydneyRover]

Remind me Steve when will brexit get done?   

Added: and while your replying tell us what we'll get and will match up with what you voted for?

It's understandable if you don't know as no one else does either.

[foxbat]

Historians  will be astonished that so many less well off people voted to be even worse off so that a few millionaires could keep their money offshore and avoid paying any tax.