Worst thing about today...

[dickos1]

On the basis of 20 odd games, he has zero end product. In fact, when he gets into a position where he might deliver an end product, he goes back on himself, so probably has a less than zero end product.

That’s what everyone said about coppinger when he was a young un,
Plenty of time for him to improve his end product

[since-1969]

We lost today against a really sh*t team who will not be in this league next season. We actually made them look good, which took a hell of a lot of doing! Worst of all, thug boy Barton will be smiling tonight thinking he’s gone a job on us - he didn’t, we did!! Ffs!! I’m just glad we’re safe this season and have time to build for next season. Such a shame as we were in a great position and what a waste! Can’t see us picking up any points for the rest of the season! Gutted!

I agree with all that .. but I’m concerned that we are kicking all this around as though we have any say . If this isn’t addressed before the end of the season it will have a huge effect on the way the club is seen by the supporters, as no one at board level is trying to put a lid on this and put some perspective as to the pressure they've inflicted on a favoured player now a temporary manager and what he’s having to put up with , with his hands tied as what he can say about anybody’s future let alone his own!! 

[BobG]

There's something odd here. We all remember,at the start of Butler's reign, the many interviews and sound bites about the senior players welcoming and supporting him. We all remember the promise of less predictablity. We all remember the promise of more exciting football. And in those first two matches we saw the benefits: positive, exciting football. And then, overnight, it changed. Now a change of that magnitude, made at such speed, did not happen by accident. It did not 'creep up' over time. It was like a switch had been pressed. There is a reason for this. It is not losing a key player and a manager: if that was the case, we would have been shit in those first two matches as well. But we weren't. I think something happened after that second match. Something serious. It was serious enough to turn the squad into folk disinterested in playing. And for me, the cause was not  Butler. If he had said or done something appalling, he would have been outed. But he wasn't. He hasn't been. I think the cause lies elswehere.

BobG

[sha66y]

Maybe the money men have been coppering up and decided that we really don’t deserve a top 6 budget year on year, and should perhaps get used to a 3rd tier mid table existence..that’s more sustainable with less expectation.....

= less to subsidise, and less to have to throw in to keep afloat....year on year...

Sounds like a good plan to me,

I do not like these silly flirtatious dalliances with the play-offs of late....they tend to bring out the worst in all of us...

[scawsby steve]

Maybe the money men have been coppering up and decided that we really don’t deserve a top 6 budget year on year, and should perhaps get used to a 3rd tier mid table existence..that’s more sustainable with less expectation.....

= less to subsidise, and less to have to throw in to keep afloat....year on year...

Sounds like a good plan to me,

I do not like these silly flirtatious dalliances with the play-offs of late....they tend to bring out the worst in all of us...

How could that be sustainable, with crowds of about 4000? Because that's what it would be if the club showed no ambition.

It's the hope that brings in supporters.

[Filo]

There's something odd here. We all remember,at the start of Butler's reign, the many interviews and sound bites about the senior players welcoming and supporting him. We all remember the promise of less predictablity. We all remember the promise of more exciting football. And in those first two matches we saw the benefits: positive, exciting football. And then, overnight, it changed. Now a change of that magnitude, made at such speed, did not happen by accident. It did not 'creep up' over time. It was like a switch had been pressed. There is a reason for this. It is not losing a key player and a manager: if that was the case, we would have been shit in those first two matches as well. But we weren't. I think something happened after that second match. Something serious. It was serious enough to turn the squad into folk disinterested in playing. And for me, the cause was not  Butler. If he had said or done something appalling, he would have been outed. But he wasn't. He hasn't been. I think the cause lies elswehere.

BobG

Yes, those first 2 games of Butlers we were leaving 3 up when defending corners, then it stopped all of a sudden, why?

[Chris Black come back]

Generally speaking, our defending of set pieces and our exploitation of our own set pieces, has been very poor all season.

[BigH]

I think we're lacking a leader or two on the pitch aren't we?

Other than Anderson - and I wonder where his future lies - there's no one who seems capable of galvanising the players and the team as a whole when the going gets tough.

The only other player with that quality would have been AB himself.

I can sense Coppinger's frustration. A number of the youngsters are in danger of blowing their credentials through poor attitude. Do they not realise that their parent clubs will pick up on this?

[GazLaz]

I think it’s a really easy excuse to single out the young players. They don’t get to the level they have by going out and not trying on a regular basis.

Young players lack the experience to cope when things get tough and it just emphasises mistakes and bad decisions. These players need a clarity from the manager. They need to be guided and understand their exact role and exactly what is required of them in and out of possession etc. It was the job of DM and now AB to put this understanding in place. If players aren’t doing the right things it’s as much the manager to blame as it is their fault.

[donnievic]

We have too many players who couldn’t care less

thats how I see it not really blaming bulter or the board,the players or most of them don’t seem bothered at all

[Getridorit]

We have too many players who couldn’t care less

thats how I see it not really blaming bulter or the board,the players or most of them don’t seem bothered at all

I blame the loan policy.
When the going gets tough, the loan players give in.
They don't care, they will be somewhere else next season earning mega bucks (compared to our own contracted players)

This policy of building a squad of loan players is ridiculous, and has now been proven not to work.
Just 1 step removed from 'the experiment'

2/3 loan players max, to complement a squad of players on contracts of 2/3 years. That's the way to do it.

[mjg]

Richards does not want to put the work in off the ball lazy sod

[Filo]

Richards does not want to put the work in off the ball lazy sod

Bone idle, and needs telling

[BillyStubbsTears]

I think it’s a really easy excuse to single out the young players. They don’t get to the level they have by going out and not trying on a regular basis.

Young players lack the experience to cope when things get tough and it just emphasises mistakes and bad decisions. These players need a clarity from the manager. They need to be guided and understand their exact role and exactly what is required of them in and out of possession etc. It was the job of DM and now AB to put this understanding in place. If players aren’t doing the right things it’s as much the manager to blame as it is their fault.

Bang on and this is making me reflect on my criticism of Richards yesterday.

He was superb earlier in the season in a side that was organised and well-drilled. A side where every player seemed to know what their role was with and without the ball. I don't think it's a coincidence that, since Moore had his head turned, Richards has looked increasingly like that talented but totally indisciplined bkid we all used to play with in the Sunday League, trying to win the game on his own.

[Not Now Kato]

Richards does not want to put the work in off the ball lazy sod

Bone idle, and needs sending back to his parent club along with a note to say why.

FTFY

[normal rules]

I think it’s a really easy excuse to single out the young players. They don’t get to the level they have by going out and not trying on a regular basis.

Young players lack the experience to cope when things get tough and it just emphasises mistakes and bad decisions. These players need a clarity from the manager. They need to be guided and understand their exact role and exactly what is required of them in and out of possession etc. It was the job of DM and now AB to put this understanding in place. If players aren’t doing the right things it’s as much the manager to blame as it is their fault.

I’ve eluded to this in another post. The self discipline of some players, particularly the likes of Richards, has slipped. Integral to this is the players relationship with the manager. They see AB more as an equal, not as the gaffer. And here inlies the problem. There has to be a heirarchal structure to team management. Currently it’s more egalitarian at Rovers. Coppinger making the comments he did after yesterday’s game is a classic example. I could not see the likes of Mourinho or Bielsa allowing any of his players to say that after such a performance. Leadership means standing out front and taking responsibility when things go wrong. I cannot fault copps passion and commitment to the team, but the feedback from the team after yesterday should have come from the manager alone.
I dread to think what the dressing room was like after yesterday. A free for all I imagine.

[idler]

I think it’s a really easy excuse to single out the young players. They don’t get to the level they have by going out and not trying on a regular basis.

Young players lack the experience to cope when things get tough and it just emphasises mistakes and bad decisions. These players need a clarity from the manager. They need to be guided and understand their exact role and exactly what is required of them in and out of possession etc. It was the job of DM and now AB to put this understanding in place. If players aren’t doing the right things it’s as much the manager to blame as it is their fault.

I’ve eluded to this in another post. The self discipline of some players, particularly the likes of Richards, has slipped. Integral to this is the players relationship with the manager. They see AB more as an equal, not as the gaffer. And here inlies the problem. There has to be a heirarchal structure to team management. Currently it’s more egalitarian at Rovers. Coppinger making the comments he did after yesterday’s game is a classic example. I could not see the likes of Mourinho or Bielsa allowing any of his players to say that after such a performance. Leadership means standing out front and taking responsibility when things go wrong. I cannot fault copps passion and commitment to the team, but the feedback from the team after yesterday should have come from the manager alone.
I dread to think what the dressing room was like after yesterday. A free for all I imagine.

Did you not see the Rob Jones pitch side  interview after the Crawley game in our championship winning season in 2012/13?
He said it as it was. "Not good enough". He had a bit of a rant and went into the dressing room where James husband was munching a sandwich and some players didn't seem bothered enough. He wanted the tray of sandwiches and they had a discussion there and then about putting it right.
Look at the players in that team who were bollocked. They took it onboard and moved forward.

[Filo]

Richards does not want to put the work in off the ball lazy sod

Bone idle, and needs sending back to his parent club along with a note to say why.

FTFY

Thats unfair to edit my post

[normal rules]

I think it’s a really easy excuse to single out the young players. They don’t get to the level they have by going out and not trying on a regular basis.

Young players lack the experience to cope when things get tough and it just emphasises mistakes and bad decisions. These players need a clarity from the manager. They need to be guided and understand their exact role and exactly what is required of them in and out of possession etc. It was the job of DM and now AB to put this understanding in place. If players aren’t doing the right things it’s as much the manager to blame as it is their fault.

I’ve eluded to this in another post. The self discipline of some players, particularly the likes of Richards, has slipped. Integral to this is the players relationship with the manager. They see AB more as an equal, not as the gaffer. And here inlies the problem. There has to be a heirarchal structure to team management. Currently it’s more egalitarian at Rovers. Coppinger making the comments he did after yesterday’s game is a classic example. I could not see the likes of Mourinho or Bielsa allowing any of his players to say that after such a performance. Leadership means standing out front and taking responsibility when things go wrong. I cannot fault copps passion and commitment to the team, but the feedback from the team after yesterday should have come from the manager alone.
I dread to think what the dressing room was like after yesterday. A free for all I imagine.

Did you not see the Rob Jones pitch side  interview after the Cheltenham game in our championship winning season in 2012/13?
He said it as it was. "Not good enough". He had a bit of a rant and went into the dressing room where James husband was munching a sandwich and some players didn't seem bothered enough. He wanted the tray of sandwiches and they had a discussion there and then about putting it right.
Look at the players in that team who were bollocked. They took it onboard and moved forward.

AB admitted yesterday he will not question “hunger.” (To play and win)
This is a big worry. The manager is the one that asks those difficult questions.
There are some players that need a good kick up the arse and the manager is the one to do it, if they have lost some of their own self discipline. Whether they take it on board is another matter altogether. And those that are unwilling to accept constructive criticism and be accountable have no place in this, or any team.

[eastender]

I think it’s a really easy excuse to single out the young players. They don’t get to the level they have by going out and not trying on a regular basis.

Young players lack the experience to cope when things get tough and it just emphasises mistakes and bad decisions. These players need a clarity from the manager. They need to be guided and understand their exact role and exactly what is required of them in and out of possession etc. It was the job of DM and now AB to put this understanding in place. If players aren’t doing the right things it’s as much the manager to blame as it is their fault.

I’ve eluded to this in another post. The self discipline of some players, particularly the likes of Richards, has slipped. Integral to this is the players relationship with the manager. They see AB more as an equal, not as the gaffer. And here inlies the problem. There has to be a heirarchal structure to team management. Currently it’s more egalitarian at Rovers. Coppinger making the comments he did after yesterday’s game is a classic example. I could not see the likes of Mourinho or Bielsa allowing any of his players to say that after such a performance. Leadership means standing out front and taking responsibility when things go wrong. I cannot fault copps passion and commitment to the team, but the feedback from the team after yesterday should have come from the manager alone.
I dread to think what the dressing room was like after yesterday. A free for all I imagine.

Did you not see the Rob Jones pitch side  interview after the Cheltenham game in our championship winning season in 2012/13?
He said it as it was. "Not good enough". He had a bit of a rant and went into the dressing room where James husband was munching a sandwich and some players didn't seem bothered enough. He wanted the tray of sandwiches and they had a discussion there and then about putting it right.
Look at the players in that team who were bollocked. They took it onboard and moved forward.

I think it was the Monday night away game at Crawley Live on Sky where Jones went off on one. Didn't Gary Woods let a shot through his hands for their goal.

[BobG]

I think it’s a really easy excuse to single out the young players. They don’t get to the level they have by going out and not trying on a regular basis.

Young players lack the experience to cope when things get tough and it just emphasises mistakes and bad decisions. These players need a clarity from the manager. They need to be guided and understand their exact role and exactly what is required of them in and out of possession etc. It was the job of DM and now AB to put this understanding in place. If players aren’t doing the right things it’s as much the manager to blame as it is their fault.

I’ve eluded to this in another post. The self discipline of some players, particularly the likes of Richards, has slipped. Integral to this is the players relationship with the manager. They see AB more as an equal, not as the gaffer. And here inlies the problem. There has to be a heirarchal structure to team management. Currently it’s more egalitarian at Rovers. Coppinger making the comments he did after yesterday’s game is a classic example. I could not see the likes of Mourinho or Bielsa allowing any of his players to say that after such a performance. Leadership means standing out front and taking responsibility when things go wrong. I cannot fault copps passion and commitment to the team, but the feedback from the team after yesterday should have come from the manager alone.
I dread to think what the dressing room was like after yesterday. A free for all I imagine.

There's an enormous number of assumptions in there NR. If they are not assumptions, could you share some of the evidence that led you to these conclusions? But irrespective of that, the bigger question is Why?' You suggest it is because the players see Butler as 'an equal'. I'm not convinced. These are all players brought up, since their mid teens at least, to respect 'the manager'. For a whole squad of 20 odd players, simultaneously, in the space of 2 weeks (during which time there were two notable victories), to lose the respect inculcated by a lifetime of conditioning, defies logic.

No. Something else is behind this illogical transformation. And given the absence of leaks, rumours and statements, it is a well kept secret. That, on its own, implies quite a lot too.

Cheers

BobG

[BigH]

I think it’s a really easy excuse to single out the young players. They don’t get to the level they have by going out and not trying on a regular basis.

Young players lack the experience to cope when things get tough and it just emphasises mistakes and bad decisions. These players need a clarity from the manager. They need to be guided and understand their exact role and exactly what is required of them in and out of possession etc. It was the job of DM and now AB to put this understanding in place. If players aren’t doing the right things it’s as much the manager to blame as it is their fault.

I don't disagree Gaz, but I do think that AB is missing someone on the pitch who can bring that clarity of thought and purpose through their actions, attitude and leadership.

We all know the sort of player who won't stand for any slacking from colleagues on the pitch. Every successful side has one or two.

[idler]

I think it’s a really easy excuse to single out the young players. They don’t get to the level they have by going out and not trying on a regular basis.

Young players lack the experience to cope when things get tough and it just emphasises mistakes and bad decisions. These players need a clarity from the manager. They need to be guided and understand their exact role and exactly what is required of them in and out of possession etc. It was the job of DM and now AB to put this understanding in place. If players aren’t doing the right things it’s as much the manager to blame as it is their fault.

I’ve eluded to this in another post. The self discipline of some players, particularly the likes of Richards, has slipped. Integral to this is the players relationship with the manager. They see AB more as an equal, not as the gaffer. And here inlies the problem. There has to be a heirarchal structure to team management. Currently it’s more egalitarian at Rovers. Coppinger making the comments he did after yesterday’s game is a classic example. I could not see the likes of Mourinho or Bielsa allowing any of his players to say that after such a performance. Leadership means standing out front and taking responsibility when things go wrong. I cannot fault copps passion and commitment to the team, but the feedback from the team after yesterday should have come from the manager alone.
I dread to think what the dressing room was like after yesterday. A free for all I imagine.

Did you not see the Rob Jones pitch side  interview after the Cheltenham game in our championship winning season in 2012/13?
He said it as it was. "Not good enough". He had a bit of a rant and went into the dressing room where James husband was munching a sandwich and some players didn't seem bothered enough. He wanted the tray of sandwiches and they had a discussion there and then about putting it right.
Look at the players in that team who were bollocked. They took it onboard and moved forward.

I think it was the Monday night away game at Crawley Live on Sky where Jones went off on one. Didn't Gary Woods let a shot through his hands for their goal.

Thanks eastender, yes it was Crawley. Cheltenham was a far better away day.

[ravenrover]

I wonder how many of the loan players start on Saturday, can we put a team out without any?

[swintonrover]

Wonder if Copps could get Terry Gormley in? Our biggest problems are psychological.

[LincolnDonny]

I'm not shocked, surprised or even disappointed how utterly dreadful that was.

I expected it.

I've got used to seeing players going through the motions with absolutely no belief or semblance of a plan.

We've just played a side who will be lucky not to be in the bottom half of L2 next season. And we have been second best everywhere across the pitch.

And I expected it.





Totally Agree

I went into 2nd place in the league if you notice ...........it bloody grinds on me that i was right. FRIGGIN LOSERS..

You all KNOW i love Copps..........and would stand up for him any day
BUT

all those in our team and not many with a heart for the game like him

Those others should be embarrased when a 40 year old shows those many others in the team effort /quality /heart

GET YA FINGER out you lot

Surely you are better than the effort etc you are giving ......dont forget other managers look at your effort/skill and make notes like

DON'T SEEM INTERESTED
NO QUALITY
NO HEART
NO SKILL
NO TEAM PLAYER


NOT FOR OUR TEAM

lost so called players on the dole