If it wasn’t for ‘nukes’.

[Colin C No.3]

If we still fought wars with ‘conventional weapons’, would you then, personally, want NATO to send troops into Ukraine?

[Dutch Uncle]

If we still fought wars with ‘conventional weapons’, would you then, personally, want NATO to send troops into Ukraine?

There's also all those terrifying chemical and biological weapons he has as well 

[normal rules]

If there were no nukes, this conflict would be over. That 40 mile corridor of Russian vehicles would have been blitzed by drone strikes for starters. This Russian Invasion is disorganised and amateur. Possibly the most amateur invasion modern conflict has seen.
The full allied force of US, Uk and EU troops would have descended on Russia.
Scorched earth policy.
Every tucking square kilometre.
Every tank.
Every APC

[turnbull for england]

Equally if they didn't have full air superiority, would there be a 40 mile long target? They know this isn't at risk so are just trying byo bully and intimidate with the threat of what they will do

[normal rules]

Equally if they didn't have full air superiority, would there be a 40 mile long target? They know this isn't at risk so are just trying byo bully and intimidate with the threat of what they will do

Matters not. We managed to pick off hundred of tanks and the like during the liberation of Kuwait .

[scawsby steve]

The gist I get from this thread is that the whole world, USA included, can't act militarily because of the fear of Putin's nuclear threats.

So just what is the intended end game from the West?

[i_ateallthepies]

The gist I get from this thread is that the whole world, USA included, can't act militarily because of the fear of Putin's nuclear threats.

So just what is the intended end game from the West?

Squeeze the financial breath out of him and those who keep him in power.

[BillyStubbsTears]

The gist I get from this thread is that the whole world, USA included, can't act militarily because of the fear of Putin's nuclear threats.

So just what is the intended end game from the West?

The aim is twofold.

1) To make this massively economically painful for Russia in the hope that that someone, somewhere decides to draw a halt to this.

2) To send a message: This is how f**king hard we hit you when you invade a non-NATO country. We are not f**king about. Do not even day dream about putting a toe over the border of a NATO country.

[normal rules]

We were talking about this at work today.I suggested that if Putin gets to the point that’s he feels he cannot win in Ukraine, he could drop a nuke or two or a hundred on Ukraine as a final desperate attempt to save face. And finish the war so to speak, In his eyes. Adopting a “If he cannot have Ukraine, then no one can” type attitude.
The obvious risk being killing his own troops already there.
And the massive risk is that I could not see the western world sitting on their hands if this happened.
It could tip everyone over the edge.
Into biblical oblivion.
Why else would he move his close family to a nuclear bunker far far away in Eastern Siberia.
The Russians are known for their love of chess.
I’m beginning to think this would be his “check” move.
And the response from the west would be “checkmate” for all of us.

[Colin C No.3]

The End Game.

Will that Putin’s decision then, end of?

If after a long & bloody war that we’re told (& I for one am in no doubt will happen) Kyiv becomes a city where we ‘look on’ through our TV screens as a war fought street by street, house by house & the brave citizens of the Ukraine are eventually ‘brought to heel’ by the Russians & in ‘It’s Victory’, where does that leave us?

Do we simply become the televised audience that daily watched & hoped for a better ‘out come’?

Or do we ask, no demand from our government’s that as a country we could have, ‘THEY’ should have done more before the ‘inevitable’ in the Ukraine is painfully & pitifully played out.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

IF Putin presses on with this, the pressure to act militarily will become overwhelming.

The question keeps being asked. Are we going to stand by and watch?

No doubt, the intelligence services across the world will be uniting to study Russias every move on the ground and in and around the Kremlin, and assessing whether Putin has isolated himself from even his closest aids, and can be taken out one way or another.

[normal rules]

If this conflict continues, there will be no Ukraine left to populate.
And Russia , as a nation, will be broke, isolated, and cut off from the rest of the world.
The playgrounds that their wealthy have enjoyed for years will be well and truly closed for good.
Russia will deteriorate into a third world country.
It will become like North Korea.

The glimmer of hope is that that when Putin is finally gone , either prematurely or otherwise, there is a chance a new leader will be appointed. One that values democracy and freedoms.

In the meantime, we must avoid nuclear conflict. At all costs. And that cost at the moment is Ukrainian lives.

[Colin C No.3]

As ‘unpalatable’ as that scenario presents itself nr, they are my feelings too.

For want of a better, or more profound summing up of present events, ‘The West must keep its powder dry’.

[normal rules]

As ‘unpalatable’ as that scenario presents itself nr, they are my feelings too.

For want of a better, or more profound summing up of present events, ‘The West must keep its powder dry’.

The time will come when the collective leadership of those in the West will be needed.
There is leadership being shown currently, through restraint. Which for many is unacceptable. But I believe the alternative to restraint would result in catastrophe.
And so we wait. And watch. And we do everything we can without stepping over that line. We hit the Russian economy. When we have taken it away, we can give it back. We win their hearts and minds.
We influence and persuade through psychological means.
We break him from the inside. Use his own people against him.
But, we must afford him a way out too. We have to. He would not accept any form of defeat or compromise. That would push him into a corner. And oblivion. For all of us.
I’m not sure what that “way out” is at the moment. But it will evolve. Those working at the heart of the allied Intelligence network will be predicting his every move. It is they who will steer the outcome to this crisis.

[i_ateallthepies]

It is inconceivable to me that the top ranking Generals of his armed forces aren't watching his every move and (hopefully) ready to step in to prevent him taking the ultimate step.

[BobG]

I wish that were true Pies.But everything, everything, revolves around Putin. Did you see the photo last week of Putin meeting his army C in C and Defence Minister? They were sat close together 30 yards away from Putin at the other end of the table. And they both looked shit scared.

There is no succession plan. There is not even a succession process. Taking out Putin will lead to domestic catastrophe. And in those circumstances nobody, nobody, is safe.

BobG

[drfchound]

Are we safe with Putin in place though?

[normal rules]

If only there were no nukes.
Whilst it is only a simulation. This makes unpleasant viewing .
https://youtu.be/dxJHecyYBno

[BobG]

Hound. The dévil you know is ALWAYS  better than the devil you don't  know. Surely you know that?

BobG

[normal rules]

There is a saying in the military world that “no plan survives contact with the enemy”.
Putin’s plan isn’t surviving.
At all.

His plan has to change.
But how? And when ?

[ravenrover]

It's started artillery and bombing just flatten everything, create absolute fear in civilians, doesn't matter who it is men women or children achieve the objective. He has history of this.

[drfchound]

Hound. The dévil you know is ALWAYS  better than the devil you don't  know. Surely you know that?

BobG

I do know that Bob, no argument from me on that.