The Conservative Party

[Stocksbridge Owl]

As someone who studied politics for many years and have volunteered for both the Tory Party & Labour Party, I like to think I know a little on the subject of politics. I have also voted for both parties in various elections and count Tory & Labour members and activists as my friends. However, I have to say that I really don’t recognise this government as a real Conservative government. It’s almost as if they’ve become a right wing populist government rather than a government that holds true Conservative principles and values. I’ve often disagreed with actions and decisions made by successive governments, but I’ve always understood why they held particular views, from Callaghan to May. This current government though leave me totally bemused. How they can hold Johnson in any regard leaves me utterly baffled and his current comments on Ukraine are a new low.

‘True’ Conservatives such as Heseltine, Baker, Clarke et al must look around and wonder what the hell is going on. They have power, but at what price to them and the country?

The country needs a strong traditional Conservative party just as it needs a strong Labour party. From what I can see, we almost have one but nowhere near the other.

[Ldr]

 It’s almost as if they’ve become a right wing populist government rather than a government that holds true Conservative principles and values.

Thats as accurate as you can get Stocksbridge

[Glyn_Wigley]

They've been taken over by a bunch of spivs. It's that simple.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Bravo Stocksbridge.

I've been pointing out for half a decade that this was the direction of travel that Brexit inevitably set in motion. Brexit was never and could never be the policy of old school moderate Tories. So it's been used to purge them out of the party. They've all either been expelled or have converted.

And here's the key consequence. There is no political vision, no philosophy cementing the Tory party. They don't have the post war One Nation Tory ethos. They don't have the economic philosophical momentum behind them to roll back the State as Thatcher had.

The modern "Tory" party exists for one purpose. To be in power. But it has no vision of what it wants for Britain, now that it has got Brexit done. Effectively, it stopped being the Tory party in 2016 and should have been renamed The Brexit party before Farage took the name. Because that's what it became. A party with nothing at all underpinning it but Brexit.

And now that Brexit as an event is fading into the past, the Brexit Party will do what all parties with no philosophy do. Either disintegrate or revert to populists reaction to try to hold on to power.

[River Don]

It’s almost as if they’ve become a right wing populist government rather than a government that holds true Conservative principles and values.

Thats as accurate as you can get Stocksbridge

They've been pulled that way since UKIP began to eat into their vote.

I think it may have reached its end now though. Putin is showing us where the path of populism ultimately leads.

[wilts rover]

Johnson likes to think he is the heir to Thatcher and Churchill. Yet he kicked Thatcher's private sectetary, her speechwriter and Churchill's grandson out of the party.

It was clear sometime ago that he is the heir to Powell and Griffin. They stopped conserving and started breaking quite a while ago.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Johnson likes to think he is the heir to Thatcher and Churchill. Yet he kicked Thatcher's private sectetary, her speechwriter and Churchill's grandson out of the party.

It was clear sometime ago that he is the heir to Powell and Griffin. They stopped conserving and started breaking quite a while ago.

And demonstrates over and over again how he clearly doesn't give a shit about the word 'Unionist' in the party name.

[Ldr]

Do you understand the significance and history of the word unionist in the party name Glyn?

[Glyn_Wigley]

Do you understand the significance and history of the word unionist in the party name Glyn?

Yes. Unlike Boris.

[tyke1962]

I still maintain the Thatcher government was the worst Tory government we've ever had but that's just my personal opinion .

Hope the evil bitch is rotting in hell .

[danumdon]

I think we can say that on the whole the tory party , very much like the labour party has always been a very broad church, they both have their very extreme elements that are poison to the vast majority of the public, whist at the same time have many who could quite happily exist together in the middle ground, who knows they could maybe one day get together , drop their fringe elements and create something that a democratic majority could vote in.

As for Thatcher, she presided over a very purest tory party who took their musings very seriously and stuck to them, no furlough and bailing out for that lot. I'm sure we could of seen biblical levels of death and pestilence under a government presided over by her in this day and age.

[BillyStubbsTears]

In the second half of the 2010s, BOTH major parties were taken over by extremists.

Labour has come out of that. The Tory extremists are now in power.

[phil old leake]

“ The country needs a strong traditional Conservative party just as it needs a strong Labour party. From what I can see, we almost have one but nowhere near the other.”

Stockbridge there lies the problem

We don’t have either

[BobG]

What's even worse  is that the Labour Party is now, and henceforth, tantamount to unelectable. The loss of Scottish seats to the SNP and the Conservative led boundary reorganisation has made Labour almost unelectable. I don't care where your political allegiance lies, that is catastrophic for democracy. The Tories really will have to go some to not come out of the next electíon as the biggest party.

BobG

[drfchound]

What's even worse  is that the Labour Party is now, and henceforth, tantamount to unelectable. The loss of Scottish seats to the SNP and the Conservative led boundary reorganisation has made Labour almost unelectable. I don't care where your political allegiance lies, that is catastrophic for democracy. The Tories really will have to go some to not come out of the next electíon as the biggest party.

BobG

Sadly that is true Bob.
No doubt the usual suspects will try to argue that your comment isn’t accurate.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Bob. The Tories might be the biggest party, but they have some legwork to out in to win a majority or be able to put a coalition together.

Labour needs to get in as head of a coalition and finally bite the bullet on proper PR. Not once in the past 70 years has a majority voted for right-leaning parties. But we've had 43 years of right-wing, sometimes very right wing Governments.

That would never again happen under PR.

[glosterred]

The Parliamentary Boundary Commission

Parliamentary Boundary Commissions are ‘arms length’ public bodies. This means they are ‘sponsored’ by a UK Government department (in our case, the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities), but are outside of direct Ministerial control. The sponsor department provides funding and other resources (staff, accommodation, IT infrastructure, and often other ‘back office’ support), and monitors that those resources are being utilised appropriately and efficiently. However, Government Ministers and officials have no direct input or control over the substantive work of the Commissioners in the reviewing of constituencies and development of proposals and recommendations for change: decisions on those matters are taken by the independent Commissioners, working within a legislative framework of rules established by Parliament.


https://boundarycommissionforengland.independent.gov.uk/about-us/

[drfchound]

In the last seventy years, has a majority ever voted for a left leaning Party.
Serious question for those more qualified than me to answer please.

[drfchound]

Just found this after a quick Google:

Since 1918 there have been 28 General Elections in the United Kingdom, with the Conservative party winning the highest share of the vote in 19 elections, and the Labour party in nine. The Conservatives recorded their highest share of the vote in 1931 at 60.8 percent, the Labour Party in 1951 at 48.8 percent, and the then Liberal Party in 1923 at 29.6 percent.

It seems that Labour has never had more than 48.8% of the vote, unless I am about to be told differently.

[wilts rover]

“ The country needs a strong traditional Conservative party just as it needs a strong Labour party. From what I can see, we almost have one but nowhere near the other.”

Stockbridge there lies the problem

We don’t have either

The right leaning/far right neo-facist media in this country will never allow a strong-left/left leaning party as it will threaten them and their wealth and privilege.

[BobG]

 I forgot to add to my doom laden post above, No. 13, that I have more than a suspicion that Britain has become the world's first one party democracy.

That's not quite a fair description as other parties will continue to exist. And one day the Conservatives will not be able to form or lead a government, but, practically speaking, I reckon we're not far from one party government today.

The only way to avoid this would be a seismic realignment of the centre left - which has never looked even slightly likely.

BobG

[i_ateallthepies]

In the last seventy years, has a majority ever voted for a left leaning Party.
Serious question for those more qualified than me to answer please.

Every Labour government elected has been Left Leaning, Hound.

[i_ateallthepies]

I forgot to add to my doom laden post above, No. 13, that I have more than a suspicion that Britain has become the world's first one party democracy.

That's not quite a fair description as other parties will continue to exist. And one day the Conservatives will not be able to form or lead a government, but, practically speaking, I reckon we're not far from one party government today.

The only way to avoid this would be a seismic realignment of the centre left - which has never looked even slightly likely.

BobG

How about Russia, Bob.  They have elections but only one outcome ever happens.

[SydneyRover]

Lie down with dogs ................

''Secret recording sheds light on Zac Goldsmith tax evasion case

Zac Goldsmith faces fresh questions about his involvement in a multimillion-pound tax evasion scheme in Spain after a family friend was secretly recorded trying to enlist a police officer to help “resolve” the case.

The family friend, businesswoman Corinna zu Sayn-Wittgenstein, the ex-lover of Spain’s former King Juan Carlos, was recorded telling the senior police officer the Conservative politician’s career would be “dead” if details of the case became public.

The Guardian has obtained a copy of the recording, which was made in April 2015 as Goldsmith campaigned in the general election to retain his seat as an MP''

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/mar/22/secret-recording-sheds-light-on-zac-goldsmith-tax-evasion-case

[drfchound]

In the last seventy years, has a majority ever voted for a left leaning Party.
Serious question for those more qualified than me to answer please.

Every Labour government elected has been Left Leaning, Hound.

Very enlightening pies, thanks for that.
I think you must have not noticed that my post was in response to the post number 15 where bst was talking about a majority voting for right leaning Parties.
I hadn’t noticed until just now that gloster  had posted a few seconds before me so I can understand why you made your intuitive post.

[SydneyRover]

These thoughts had crossed my mind and someone has kindly put them on paper for me ....

''David Cameron volunteering at a food bank? He’s got some nerve''

''The former prime minister David Cameron finally popped out of his shepherd’s hut last week, to inform the world, proudly, that he had been volunteering at his local food co-op, the Chippy Larder, and was about to drive to Poland with supplies they had collected.

For now, try to park the fact that refugee services across eastern Europe have repeatedly said that what they lack is cash, and they would much prefer a wire transfer to have-a-go-heroes making pointless journeys with a van full of stuff that Poland already produces. Because the more striking thing was the audacity of Cameron’s volunteering, which was swiftly pointed out by Zarah Sultana MP – food bank use went up by 2,612% while he was prime minister. There are so many ways he could have been socially useful without rubbing our nose in the poverty he had created (he could have volunteered at a dog’s home, for instance, or worked with bees) that this can only be interpreted as trolling''

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/22/david-cameron-volunteering-at-a-food-bank-hes-got-some-nerve

[Stocksbridge Owl]

Since WW2 we’ve had governments shifting across the left-central-right of politics, sometimes mid term and that’s fine to a degree.  As I stated in the OP, up to this point I’ve always been able to understand why a particular government takes a specific position on something, even when I disagree or oppose that position. My own political stand point is socially left of centre and economically right of centre and I’ve voted at each election based on this (and also my own opinion of the candidates) hence my shift between the two main parties. There are, and have been, MP’s in both parties who I greatly admire.

However, this current government don’t seem to have any policies short of broad, populist sound bites that they may, or may not have any intention of delivering. A number of my friends and former colleagues are still active members of the Tory party and even they will struggle to share what this current government stand for other than being nothing more than a reactionary collection of MP’s rather than a government with a clear plan. In my view, this is troubling.

[SydneyRover]

Not sure how a government led by johnson could ever have a plan, he was accused of being driven by The Mail's headlines (Cummings I think) and I guess that he's not really a tory but a selfie.