Liz Truss

[Dutch Uncle]

Truss was brought down by the financial (particularly bond) markets reaction to her economic plans.

The financial markets are influenced by the hard-headed pragmatic financial self interests of it's participants. Not by political idealogies.

Liz Truss is, whatever we think of her actions, a highly intelligent individual - she got into Oxford having studied at a standard Comprehensive school. She's not stupid - far from it (which doesn't preclude her from being wrong).

Therefore I agree with the OP that her opinion she was brought down by some left-wing establishment stitch up is suggestive of somebody with a mental health issue.

Regardless of her politics, actions and the results of those actions on others I expressed a concern for her mental well being when her premiership unravelled. I maintain that concern.

I hope her close family are giving her the support she needs plus wise counsel.

Human ‘intelligence’ is a strange and inconsistent thing. I am not speaking from an academic point of view, but one of personal feeling and observation. Many people who for example win a place at Oxford may be ‘intelligent’ in a very small field  where they truly excel, but can be remarkably obtuse or ignorant of many other things. Some of the most ‘intelligent’ academic scholars can be woefully short of common sense and judgement, especially when it comes to handling people. IMHO Truss fits this mould. In my experience only a relatively small number are either true polymaths or blessed with all round common sense, and they really stand out, especially those with courage. I have been blessed to meet just a very small number. Possibly the all-round smartest was a very high-ranking military man, a razor sharp thinker, personable, and with oodles of pragmatic basic common sense. A true leader, the type of which would be good for politics but would never want to do it.

I went to study Mathematics at Oxford from Doncaster Grammar School, embarrassingly at the same college as Liz Truss. Within Oxford, Merton actually has a formidable academic reputation. I did well academically but also clearly fit that mould I was talking about. It has taken me half a century, most of it living abroad, and in particular marriage to a very understanding and positive wife to broaden my knowledge and experience base. Only as I get older, and ironically my mind less sharp, do I feel I am beginning to better understand many things, including people (not all mind you), and fully realise how narrow and actually unintelligent I was. I am now far happier than I ever was.

Whether Liz Truss is capable of a similar transition is very debatable, and in my opinion impossible if she tries to stay in politics.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Interest rates aren't only raised to fight inflation. The reason they went up because of Truss was to prop up the pound by trying to keep attracting foreign investment to the UK (and therefore create demand for the pound, keeping its value up). If they hadn't done so the pound would almost certainly have become worth less than the dollar for the first time ever.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Yes but all that is connected.

A falling pound isn't necessarily a bad thing in isolation. It's bad for the economy in the sense that it makes exports more expensive, and so tends to push up prices - in other words, it boosts inflation.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Excellent and simple explanation here, of why Trussonomics was aiming at the wrong target as well as being stupid.

https://twitter.com/michaelujacobs/status/1622520765005299715?s=20&t=K2_XA00qOCqyfpSZj0HGCw

[ravenrover]

Truss was brought down by the financial (particularly bond) markets reaction to her economic plans.

The financial markets are influenced by the hard-headed pragmatic financial self interests of it's participants. Not by political idealogies.

Liz Truss is, whatever we think of her actions, a highly intelligent individual - she got into Oxford having studied at a standard Comprehensive school. She's not stupid - far from it (which doesn't preclude her from being wrong).

Therefore I agree with the OP that her opinion she was brought down by some left-wing establishment stitch up is suggestive of somebody with a mental health issue.

Regardless of her politics, actions and the results of those actions on others I expressed a concern for her mental well being when her premiership unravelled. I maintain that concern.

I hope her close family are giving her the support she needs plus wise counsel.

Human ‘intelligence’ is a strange and inconsistent thing. I am not speaking from an academic point of view, but one of personal feeling and observation. Many people who for example win a place at Oxford may be ‘intelligent’ in a very small field  where they truly excel, but can be remarkably obtuse or ignorant of many other things. Some of the most ‘intelligent’ academic scholars can be woefully short of common sense and judgement, especially when it comes to handling people. IMHO Truss fits this mould. In my experience only a relatively small number are either true polymaths or blessed with all round common sense, and they really stand out, especially those with courage. I have been blessed to meet just a very small number. Possibly the all-round smartest was a very high-ranking military man, a razor sharp thinker, personable, and with oodles of pragmatic basic common sense. A true leader, the type of which would be good for politics but would never want to do it.

I went to study Mathematics at Oxford from Doncaster Grammar School, embarrassingly at the same college as Liz Truss. Within Oxford, Merton actually has a formidable academic reputation. I did well academically but also clearly fit that mould I was talking about. It has taken me half a century, most of it living abroad, and in particular marriage to a very understanding and positive wife to broaden my knowledge and experience base. Only as I get older, and ironically my mind less sharp, do I feel I am beginning to better understand many things, including people (not all mind you), and fully realise how narrow and actually unintelligent I was. I am now far happier than I ever was.

Whether Liz Truss is capable of a similar transition is very debatable, and in my opinion impossible if she tries to stay in politics.

Thanks DU my point but better put

[danumdon]

Yes but all that is connected.

A falling pound isn't necessarily a bad thing in isolation. It's bad for the economy in the sense that it makes exports more expensive, and so tends to push up prices - in other words, it boosts inflation.

Surely a falling pound makes imports more expensive and exports cheaper?

[mugnapper]

https://news.sky.com/story/liz-truss-rules-out-future-pm-bid-but-doesnt-regret-her-short-time-in-downing-street-12804810
Terrible news.  The country is doomed, doomed I tells you!!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Yes but all that is connected.

A falling pound isn't necessarily a bad thing in isolation. It's bad for the economy in the sense that it makes exports more expensive, and so tends to push up prices - in other words, it boosts inflation.

Surely a falling pound makes imports more expensive and exports cheaper?

Yep. Mistake by me. I meant imports, not exports.

[Branton Red]

Human ‘intelligence’ is a strange and inconsistent thing. I am not speaking from an academic point of view, but one of personal feeling and observation. Many people who for example win a place at Oxford may be ‘intelligent’ in a very small field  where they truly excel, but can be remarkably obtuse or ignorant of many other things. Some of the most ‘intelligent’ academic scholars can be woefully short of common sense and judgement, especially when it comes to handling people. IMHO Truss fits this mould. In my experience only a relatively small number are either true polymaths or blessed with all round common sense, and they really stand out, especially those with courage. I have been blessed to meet just a very small number. Possibly the all-round smartest was a very high-ranking military man, a razor sharp thinker, personable, and with oodles of pragmatic basic common sense. A true leader, the type of which would be good for politics but would never want to do it.

I went to study Mathematics at Oxford from Doncaster Grammar School, embarrassingly at the same college as Liz Truss. Within Oxford, Merton actually has a formidable academic reputation. I did well academically but also clearly fit that mould I was talking about. It has taken me half a century, most of it living abroad, and in particular marriage to a very understanding and positive wife to broaden my knowledge and experience base. Only as I get older, and ironically my mind less sharp, do I feel I am beginning to better understand many things, including people (not all mind you), and fully realise how narrow and actually unintelligent I was. I am now far happier than I ever was.

Whether Liz Truss is capable of a similar transition is very debatable, and in my opinion impossible if she tries to stay in politics.

Thanks for your perceptive and (ahem) highly intelligent reply Dutch. That's a top post.

I agree with you that there is a difference between academic intelligence and a broader definition of overall 'human intelligence'.

My own experience of many academically intelligent people confirms your view that many such people are lacking in basic common sense or the empathetic intelligence to know how to handle other people.

My original post was stating that Truss' academic achievements would suggest someone who should be clever (perhaps a better term that intelligence)  enough to understand that she was brought down by the hard-headed based reaction of financial markets to her policies rather than some imagined left-wing conspiracy (though MM makes a good alternative argument on her thought processes).

[Branton Red]

Why are they continuing to push up interest rates ? , they did so again last week .

Raising interest rates to curb spending and attempt to bring inflation down takes longer to work than the BOE would like you to know , 12 months and in some circumstances 2 years .

Inflation is likely to come down before the rise in interest rates kick in and yet .........

So why are they waging war on mortgage payers and renters who have the cost past on to them ?

Whose interests do you think they are representing ?

Inflation hits the poorest in society the most i.e. those who spend the highest proportion of their income.

There is a fair argument against rising interest rates to combat temporary (though still damaging) cost push inflation which we have now.

However, in this case, your ire should be directed at the US Federal Reserve rather than the BoE. They were very aggressive in increasing US interest rates in 2022.

The BoE had to raise interest rates in response or else the £ would have weakened even further against the $ and hence all other currencies. The price (in £) of commodities which trade in $ (e.g. oil) would have risen and import prices would have risen also.

This would have made UK inflation even worse. Which again would have impacted the poorest most heavily.

In the summer (unlike the Fed) the BoE increased interest rates at a sensibly sustained rate - 0.25% at a time to avoid causing households major shocks.

Then in the autumn (back on topic!) we had Trussonomics. Given the major adverse reaction of the markets to this the BoE had little choice but to increase interest rates further and faster than it would have done otherwise in order to calm the markets and limit the damage of the Kwarteng Budget.

IMO the BOE has handled the last year's tough challenges pretty expertly.

[tyke1962]

Let me say this , her ability as a leader was non existent , absolutely no observation skills and cloth ears , not even remotely fit for purpose to lead this country .

However her and then Chancellor's budget compounded the economic crash  specifically with regard to pension funds but they didn't create that climate .

The Bank Of England did so despite the rubbish she's spouted today about left wing economic establishments blah blah blah and not my fault guv .

There's actually something in what she says .

Hi Tyke

I think the current BoE Governor has been a pretty sensible hand on the tiller under trying circumstances. Would be interested to know why you think otherwise

I would be very interested as to why Tyke, or anyone else, thinks the Bank of England are left wing - which is what Truss alleged!!!

Putting interest rates up during rising inflation is a right wing policy. It has helped the rich (with savings) and hurt the poorest (rising prices).

Richard Murphy goes into this in detail on his blog:

https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/

When did I post that I thought the BOE were left wing ?

In the quote above you talk about the BoE policies and then say of Truss 'there's actually something in what she says'. She said she had been brought down by the 'left-wing economic establishment'.

I think you've not read the bit where I said the rubbish she spouted today about left wing economic establishments .

I think you then need to re-read the bit where you say 'there is actually something in what she says'.

If she wasn't brought down by the 'left-wing economic establishment' there is nothing in what she says.

The BOE are a law to themselves in my opinion and it's high time governments put them back in their box .

Truss was barking up the wrong tree blaming the left for her demise but the tree exists in my opinion .

[wilts rover]

Truss: I agreed with everything that Kwasi Kwarteng did.

Reporter: Then why did you sack him?

Truss:, Ahh, ermm, ahh...

https://twitter.com/PoliticsJOE_UK/status/1622642727341916169

[Dutch Uncle]

Truss: I agreed with everything that Kwasi Kwarteng did.

Reporter: Then why did you sack him?

Truss:, Ahh, ermm, ahh...

https://twitter.com/PoliticsJOE_UK/status/1622642727341916169

This may have been put up before but is brilliant 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QwGlMpbFZk

[danumdon]

Why are they continuing to push up interest rates ? , they did so again last week .

Raising interest rates to curb spending and attempt to bring inflation down takes longer to work than the BOE would like you to know , 12 months and in some circumstances 2 years .

Inflation is likely to come down before the rise in interest rates kick in and yet .........

So why are they waging war on mortgage payers and renters who have the cost past on to them ?

Whose interests do you think they are representing ?

Inflation hits the poorest in society the most i.e. those who spend the highest proportion of their income.

There is a fair argument against rising interest rates to combat temporary (though still damaging) cost push inflation which we have now.

However, in this case, your ire should be directed at the US Federal Reserve rather than the BoE. They were very aggressive in increasing US interest rates in 2022.

The BoE had to raise interest rates in response or else the £ would have weakened even further against the $ and hence all other currencies. The price (in £) of commodities which trade in $ (e.g. oil) would have risen and import prices would have risen also.

This would have made UK inflation even worse. Which again would have impacted the poorest most heavily.

In the summer (unlike the Fed) the BoE increased interest rates at a sensibly sustained rate - 0.25% at a time to avoid causing households major shocks.

Then in the autumn (back on topic!) we had Trussonomics. Given the major adverse reaction of the markets to this the BoE had little choice but to increase interest rates further and faster than it would have done otherwise in order to calm the markets and limit the damage of the Kwarteng Budget.

IMO the BOE has handled the last year's tough challenges pretty expertly.

Branton, i agreed with your post right until the last sentence.

I wouldn't agree that the BOE did deal with the situation expertly, a case can be made that the bank should of acted very much sooner and as it transpired with slightly larger increments to deal with Inflation. All the "expert economic" advice at the time was to go sooner and bigger to try to cap inflation earlier, if they had gone down this road the consequential effects of the pandemic, War, soaring energy prices and the fallout from Trussenomics could of been handled in  much more sympathetic manner.

I believe the Governors and the Banks dithering has increased the pain now.

[BillyStubbsTears]

This is what I mean about her being mentally unwell.

100 days to think of a credible story that would survive the lightest scrutiny. And she's got nothing.

I agreed with Kwarteng

We were both right

The BoE and the Treasury were part of a left wing plot against me.

But...err...

I sacked Kwarteng because the BoE and the Treasury were telling me everything was going wrong.


100 days and her best line is "I was too weak and was forced into a decision I didn't want to take."

And that's her BEST line.

And she is so utterly lacking in self awareness and understanding of how cringingly awful that will look, that she thinks it's suitable to dive back into the fray.

You have to worry about her state of mind.

PS. And then there's the way she mumbles into that "He was in Washington" line. What in the name of heaven had that got to do with anything?

[BillyStubbsTears]

PS.
Inflation doesn't automatically hit the poorest. That's way too simplistic.

What matters is the relationship between inflation, earnings and interest rates.

If earnings (job salary or benefits) go up higher than inflation, then clearly the earners are better off.

If inflation is higher than interest rates, debtors (usually the poorer in society) see the value of their debt diminish, while creditors (aka Capitalists) see the value of their capital diminish. 

[Donnywolf]

She is (or it seems that way as I don't personally know her) a totally deluded individual in political circles

A classic "changer of sides" to suit the narrative , sorry to suit her narrative.

At least with the EU debate Johnson wrote 2 letters one in favour one against them waited to see which the the best for HIM . Truss however wrote letters and pieces as an active campaigner for Remain.

There are endless examples of this if people look for themselves. The piece about her daughters for example and the photo of her in front of a Stall which pleads with people to Stay in EU for instance

But then she switched immediately and whereas I am a nobody who held my view we would be worse off Leaving , I would not and haven't been persuaded I was wrong

She however saw an opportunity and did a complete 180 and became a fervent Leaver . Opportunities certainly arose didn't they even despite her EU stance

.... maybe deluded is an affront to her actually and she is not much different to all the others who pop up for a few months in the limelight , an opportunist with limited ability.

Raab
Keegan
Philp
Clarke
Shapps
Dorries
Patel
Braverman
Et al

[BillyStubbsTears]

She's always had very passionate, strongly held beliefs.

As in, at any given moment, she is strident about what she believes in.

It's just that the beliefs change on a regular basis.