England

[ForsolongaRover]

We'd have a better chance of winning with Messi in the side, but he's not English. I just think the same rule should apply to the manager, that's all.

Jack Charlton was possibly Ireland’s most successful manager and they loved him. That aside, if you’re relying on principles we seem to have been comfortable at club level to accept such as McCann as our manager, just as the big Premier League teams have poured out the love for their foreign managers. We have had a smattering of Yorkshire managers over the years, but I cannot recall any objections to any of those appointed on the grounds of their place of birth.

People might suggest that loyalty to a country is stronger than that to the team they have supported for ever and the national team. Seriously???

[Bentley Bullet]

It's not about principles. It's about why a rule for England players doesn't apply to the manager.

[DRFC_AjA]

International teams are only able to select players who are eligible to play for them by nationality.

To employ a foreign coach to take charge of our national team is to admit our own coaches are inferior and it is an insult to them and our own country regarding the state of our football.

At what level of the footballing operation is it not an “insult” to have someone non-English employed?

Perhaps English coaches should take personal responsibility for not being good enough. It’s the FA’s job to give them opportunities, which they do. But you can’t spoon-feed individual greatness.

15% English managers in the EPL compared to 70% Italians in Serie A. So yep English are being discriminated against and need a quota. You'd get it in American Football or if other demographics were having a winge

Whats most dissapointing....the "greatest, richest, best" etc etc league in the world is based in England and has produced in 20+ years a grand total of ZERO English managers who've won an international trophy for England and ZERO Englsih players who've done that

And now, after 20+ years of the "best" league and millions invested in St George's Park we've got ZERO English managers good enough at either the men's or women's level.

[Reg of the Rovers]

I'm not sure a quota is the answer. It's a more than level playing field, so there must be something fundamentally wrong with how we develop managers in this country. 20 years ago we changed how we play football at a grassroots junior level to match up with the Dutch / European model - small pitches, small goals, smaller numbers of players, age appropriate ball etc etc to improve the fundamentals of the game - unlike when I played kids football on a full size pitch with full size goals 11 v 11!

Something similar is needed therefore in how we develop our managers. Our top players don't kick on to be great managers (Rooney, Gerrard, Neville(s), Lampard etc all bang average) and we just don't seem to have a pipeline of new top-level managers. How many English managers are managing overseas? Not many I can think of. They tend to retire in to management and learn as they go, at the club they played for - which can't be the right model.

This article from July highlights the problem - if these are the top ten English managers them God help us!

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/ranked-the-10-best-english-managers-in-football-right-now

[drfchound]

I saw someone suggested Darren Moore the other day.
What next, Gary McSheffrey as his assistant?

[Pancho Regan]

This thread prompted me to have a look at the managers of national football teams around the world (yeah I know, but I'm retired OK?!).

I was amazed to find that there are no fewer than ELEVEN Englishmen plying their trade as managers of national football teams:

Gary White - Chinese Taipei
Ashley Westwood - Hong Kong
Stephen Constantine - Pakistan
Chris Kiwomya - British Virgin Islands
Steve McClaren - Jamaica
Lee Bowyer - Montserrat
Charlie Trout - Puerto Rico
Ricky Hill - Turks & Caicos Islands
Jake Kewley - Kiribati (not members of FIFA)
Darren Bazeley - New Zealand
Terry Connor - Grenada

Every day's a school day...........!

[Reg of the Rovers]

Thanks Pancho, that's really interesting. Some fabulous places to live, but not exactly big footballing nations, or particularly household names! I suppose it reinforces the point about the lack of English managerial talent at the highest levels.

If our biggest managerial export is Steve McClaren then something is definitely going wrong.

[DonnyOsmond]

The FA asked for an elite candidate with a trophy cabinet behind them. No English manager has that.

[Reg of the Rovers]

The FA asked for an elite candidate with a trophy cabinet behind them. No English manager has that.

[Padge_DRFC]

I saw someone suggested Darren Moore the other day.
What next, Gary McSheffrey as his assistant?

Wouldn't cope without the loan market

[chrisd_123]

There's a wider issue here around English coaches. I saw some figures the other day about coaching courses in England compared to other countries.

The A or Pro license course is about £4,000 in England. In Germany it's about £500. In England there's also very limited spots on the courses whereas elsewhere it's a lot more accessible. Caveat to this is I saw it online so could be talking complete b*llocks but it is very difficult for a young coach starting out to get onto that ladder in this country.

We are currently developing some of the best players in the world but we need to work on how we develop the next generation of coaches. At the minute high-level coaching in England is just being gatekept.

Not saying a few changes to the cost means we're gonna churn out 6,000 world class coaches but it not going to harm our chances.

My issue with the FA having worked closely with them for a few years is they seem to live in this world where they think they are the greatest organisation on the planet and English football is perfect. It's as if they can't accept when other nations do something better and learn. If someone else is doing something, they almost do the opposite to try and prove a point.

[ncRover]

There's a wider issue here around English coaches. I saw some figures the other day about coaching courses in England compared to other countries.

The A or Pro license course is about £4,000 in England. In Germany it's about £500. In England there's also very limited spots on the courses whereas elsewhere it's a lot more accessible. Caveat to this is I saw it online so could be talking complete b*llocks but it is very difficult for a young coach starting out to get onto that ladder in this country.

We are currently developing some of the best players in the world but we need to work on how we develop the next generation of coaches. At the minute high-level coaching in England is just being gatekept.

Not saying a few changes to the cost means we're gonna churn out 6,000 world class coaches but it not going to harm our chances.

My issue with the FA having worked closely with them for a few years is they seem to live in this world where they think they are the greatest organisation on the planet and English football is perfect. It's as if they can't accept when other nations do something better and learn. If someone else is doing something, they almost do the opposite to try and prove a point.

Could it be that the increased cost in this country is because of increased demand? Lots of coaches from around the world come to England, but not many English go abroad.

England has 92 professional clubs, Germany only has 56. So we should have more supply.

But I bet the % of domestic coaches in charge of Germans clubs is higher across those professional divisions. In the Bundesliga it is 60% domestic and in the premier league 20% domestic. Lots of foreign managers in the championship now too which their won’t be in German 2nd and 3rd tiers.

So I don’t think the pricing is by design but more on our reliance on foreign coaches domestically. But English coaches could try to give themselves more opportunities by looking abroad. Perhaps Brexit makes that harder?

[Bentley Bullet]

We have had two foreigners in charge of the England team already and neither of them came near to Ramsey, Venables, Robson and Southgate in terms of progress.

I think we might underestimate our country's coaching talent a bit.

[VivaRovers]

One of the upshots of the cost/lack of access to coaching courses with the English FA is that a lot of top players and coaches are now choosing to do their qualifications with the FA of Wales as the FAW have built up a really high reputation for the quality of their courses.

Mikel Arteta came through the FAW system, so too did Patrick Vieira, Roberto Martinez and Thierry Henry. It's why Henry was closely linked with the Wales managers job in the summer, and why Vieira at Palace and now Cesc Fabregas at Como both rushed to appoint Osian Roberts to their coaching staff when they had the chance.

So if England could keep their costs really prohibitive, I'm personally all for it.

[SydneyRover]

I saw someone suggested Darren Moore the other day.
What next, Gary McSheffrey as his assistant?

Two on the one hook

[Silkscarf]

One of the upshots of the cost/lack of access to coaching courses with the English FA is that a lot of top players and coaches are now choosing to do their qualifications with the FA of Wales as the FAW have built up a really high reputation for the quality of their courses.

Mikel Arteta came through the FAW system, so too did Patrick Vieira, Roberto Martinez and Thierry Henry. It's why Henry was closely linked with the Wales managers job in the summer, and why Vieira at Palace and now Cesc Fabregas at Como both rushed to appoint Osian Roberts to their coaching staff when they had the chance.

So if England could keep their costs really prohibitive, I'm personally all for it.

It can’t be the relative cost that put those people off the English FA route can it? They’re all millionaires! It will put others off though. FAW must simply be better. But why?

Or maybe they all thought they’d give England a wide berth as they’re not English. So they chose the nearest non-England route to avoid the England team ‘baggage’.

[Scooter]

I saw a post the other day. In England the Pro license is about £13000 compared to about £2000 in Spain. The guy who posted it also applied every year for 9 years and was still rejected

[Usher wide.]

This thread prompted me to have a look at the managers of national football teams around the world (yeah I know, but I'm retired OK?!).

I was amazed to find that there are no fewer than ELEVEN Englishmen plying their trade as managers of national football teams:

Gary White - Chinese Taipei
Ashley Westwood - Hong Kong
Stephen Constantine - Pakistan
Chris Kiwomya - British Virgin Islands
Steve McClaren - Jamaica
Lee Bowyer - Montserrat
Charlie Trout - Puerto Rico
Ricky Hill - Turks & Caicos Islands
Jake Kewley - Kiribati (not members of FIFA)
Darren Bazeley - New Zealand
Terry Connor - Grenada

Every day's a school day...........!

Seems to me Contanstine ‘drew the short straw’ there!

As for Jake Kewley, the man’s living the dream having googled Kiribati.

Apparently (& this is just local folklore) the training pitch is a strip of sand with a pair of coconut trees either end acting as goalposts.

Jake conducts training sessions (& again I refer to local gossip/reports) from a hammock in the shade whist being fanned with palm leaves by the local………locals.

Allegedly Jake has been quoted as saying to a local sports interview team “It’s a funny old game”.