Let's talk about the Morecambe game

[pib]

Do other teams not get soft or harsh sendings off?

BobG

I didn't say that other teams did or didn't get soft or harsh red cards. I don't watch enough of other teams to know. I was just answering your question and offering an opinion on the ones we've received.

[BobG]

Ok. Understand. But we can't claim some of ours are soft and therefore undeserved whilst ignoring the fact that other teams are very likely to believe they've suffered likewise. And that, of course, points to the fact that on red cards we are dirtier than every other team in this division except Bromley.
BobG

[pib]

Ok. Understand. But we can't claim some of ours are soft and therefore undeserved whilst ignoring the fact that other teams are very likely to believe they've suffered likewise. And that, of course, points to the fact that on red cards we are dirtier than every other team in this division except Bromley.
BobG

I think we can actually. Anyone who has watched many games of football over the course of the decades has their own knowledge, instincts, opinions - whatever you want to call it - on what a red card offence is. These things are, of course, subjective, hence different referees on different days would call a decision differently to one another. This makes it a shaky theory that you can judge the "dirtiest team in the division" purely on cards received. Not that I ever tried to claim we weren't a "dirty team" - it wouldn't bother me to admit that we are.

I wasn't making the comment relative to decisions/cards other teams have received this season, but rather relative to what I understand to be the laws of the game and the offences that we've been punished for this season. If another team, for example, had a player dismissed for moving the ball a few inches to take a free-kick as Gibson was in December, I don't think that renders it less of a soft decision in this context.

FWIW in that example, I see players doing this week-in, week-out, multiple times a game, and not being punished for it. Maybe they are being yellow carded for it in games up and down the land that I'm unaware of, but I've rarely ever seen it happen otherwise at one of the many games I've been at.

[Dagenham Rover]

A lot of Refs in their first EFL season trying to make a name for themselves? We've had stacks of newbies, Just a thought

[ravenrover]

Ok. Understand. But we can't claim some of ours are soft and therefore undeserved whilst ignoring the fact that other teams are very likely to believe they've suffered likewise. And that, of course, points to the fact that on red cards we are dirtier than every other team in this division except Bromley.
BobG

You don't have to be dirty to get a red these days, 2 soft yellows for example.

[i_ateallthepies]

I think we can actually. Anyone who has watched many games of football over the course of the decades has their own knowledge, instincts, opinions - whatever you want to call it - on what a red card offence is. These things are, of course, subjective, hence different referees on different days would call a decision differently to one another. This makes it a shaky theory that you can judge the "dirtiest team in the division" purely on cards received. Not that I ever tried to claim we weren't a "dirty team" - it wouldn't bother me to admit that we are.

I wasn't making the comment relative to decisions/cards other teams have received this season, but rather relative to what I understand to be the laws of the game and the offences that we've been punished for this season. If another team, for example, had a player dismissed for moving the ball a few inches to take a free-kick as Gibson was in December, I don't think that renders it less of a soft decision in this context.

FWIW in that example, I see players doing this week-in, week-out, multiple times a game, and not being punished for it. Maybe they are being yellow carded for it in games up and down the land that I'm unaware of, but I've rarely ever seen it happen otherwise at one of the many games I've been at.

Not remotely the same.  What you see is players trying to pinch ground at free kicks, that isn't what happened with Gibson.  The ref placed the ball and set off to take his position, one of the two players moved it so the ref walked back and spoke to them, moved the ball back, marked the spot with his foam and proceeded to return to his position.  Gibson scooped up the foam with his hand and placed it a yard closer to the target and then moved the ball to the foam.  That is a wilful deception on Gibson's part, the ref saw it and sent him off.  Mind blowingly stupid of Gibson and absolutely correct by the ref.

[idler]

The Chesterfield centre half went down as if poleaxed when Tom put his head on him. This given by the fourth official 50 yards away and the ref not seeing it. Stupid by Tom but not a red in my opinion..
We have also seen opposition players persistently fouling without getting even one yellow. It is inconsistency by the officials that is the problem.

[scawsby steve]

We're not shrinking violets. How many sendings off have we had this season...?

BobG

6.

Clifton v MK Dons (2 yellows - fouls)
Molyneux v Chesterfield (2 yellows - dissent and kicking the ball away)
Anderson v Chesterfield (red - headbutt)
McGrath v Carlisle (2 yellows)
Gibson v Colchester (2 yellows - 2nd one for moving the ball a foot before taking a free kick)
Senior v Morecambe (red - awful tackle)

Even though we've got quite a poor disciplinary record, quite a few of these red cards have been very soft/harsh. Especially the Moly and Gibson ones. Senior's last night doesn't fall into that category though IMO. Shocker of a challenge.

Disagree about the Moly second yellow, Pib. That was sheer stupidity; he'd already seen the ref book Madden for doing the exact same thing.

He left the ref no choice.

[pib]

We're not shrinking violets. How many sendings off have we had this season...?

BobG

6.

Clifton v MK Dons (2 yellows - fouls)
Molyneux v Chesterfield (2 yellows - dissent and kicking the ball away)
Anderson v Chesterfield (red - headbutt)
McGrath v Carlisle (2 yellows)
Gibson v Colchester (2 yellows - 2nd one for moving the ball a foot before taking a free kick)
Senior v Morecambe (red - awful tackle)

Even though we've got quite a poor disciplinary record, quite a few of these red cards have been very soft/harsh. Especially the Moly and Gibson ones. Senior's last night doesn't fall into that category though IMO. Shocker of a challenge.

Disagree about the Moly second yellow, Pib. That was sheer stupidity; he'd already seen the ref book Madden for doing the exact same thing.

He left the ref no choice.

This is my issue with refereeing. There are a raft of new rules every year to try to stamp out cheating/gamesmanship, which I'm all in favour of, but I don't think it's thought through enough or implemented consistently. It's just a blunt instrument to say "almost everything we want to clamp down on is just going to be a yellow card offence" so you end up with disproportionate punishment.

So you can have a goalkeeper handle the ball outside the area, or someone clatter an opponent, and it's the same punishment as Molyneux apparently kicking the ball away (to time waste obviously, at 0-1 down at home, as you do...), or Gibson moving a bit of foam and re-placing the ball for a free kick. Do we really want to see more cards and more sendings off for stuff so petty? I don't. Or could referees, either through common sense or directives from the authorities, be encouraged to clamp down on this stuff without resorting to cards so quickly? I've heard Keith Hackett on the radio advocating this exact point as well, so it aint just me.

Additionally to that, you have some rules come in for 3 weeks and get forgotten about, like substituted players taking the shortest route off the pitch, and the madness of added time we had at the start of last season (or maybe the one before, I can't remember).

[i_ateallthepies]

pib, I think in Gibson's case the issue was his refusal, despite a verbal warning, to accept the referee's ruling.  That in any code of sport is unacceptable and must be stamped out.