Subs

[Filo]

Given we have a game Tuesday and an early kick off saturday using substitutes to mange players minutes when in a comfortable lead is totally the right thing to do.

The fact the bench isnt as strong as those on the pitch is a different matter.

Why not just give some players an extra day off from training?
No need to put them through it on Monday.

How do you know that isnt already the plan? Or light training Monday?

Haks needed minutes managing in his previous time with us. Clearly Frankie does as well given the injury scare in last game so they will be conscious of easing him in and building minutes up.

At 3.0 up making them changes was the right thing to do with an eye on Tue IMO.

Obviously not, we let a 3 goal lead slip.

Its an opinion pal, it cant be wrong.

The sub of Haks and Frankie at 3.0 up with a game on Tue was right. The performance of the team from 60mins onwards was the reason for losing a 3.0 lead.

The subs and formation change totally killed us, we lost all structure and shape and conceded territory, everyone in the ground could see what was coming after that. For me we should make sure of the win first and worry about Tuesday afterwards, taking Haks, Molly and Clifton off, our three most dangerous players was barmy

[waldron40]

Given we have a game Tuesday and an early kick off saturday using substitutes to mange players minutes when in a comfortable lead is totally the right thing to do.

The fact the bench isnt as strong as those on the pitch is a different matter.

Why not just give some players an extra day off from training?
No need to put them through it on Monday.

How do you know that isnt already the plan? Or light training Monday?

Haks needed minutes managing in his previous time with us. Clearly Frankie does as well given the injury scare in last game so they will be conscious of easing him in and building minutes up.

At 3.0 up making them changes was the right thing to do with an eye on Tue IMO.

Obviously not, we let a 3 goal lead slip.

Its an opinion pal, it cant be wrong.

The sub of Haks and Frankie at 3.0 up with a game on Tue was right. The performance of the team from 60mins onwards was the reason for losing a 3.0 lead.

But it wasn't 3-0, it was already 3-1.

Wigan scored their first at exactly 60 minutes. Our first 2 subs came on 3 minutes later, and 3 minutes after that Wigan scored their second.

Two more subs came on at 83 minutes, and 4 minutes later Wigan scored again.

[Padge_DRFC]

The fall off in Gibson's performances is a major concern. Yesterday he even kicked the floor instead of the ball at one point. On his day though....

[mushRTID]

The fall off in Gibson's performances is a major concern. Yesterday he even kicked the floor instead of the ball at one point. On his day though....

I thought he was a complete disgrace yesterday. Watching players just run past him time and again. Pretty sure Hurst was shipped out for similar misdemeanours.
The moment you mentioned, in the South East corner? We had 6 or 7 players busting a gut to get in the box.
He honestly can go for me, he’s not what we need in this battle.

[GazLaz]

On subs, the amount of changes that managers make throughout the divisions that make teams worse is massive. They massively over rate “fresh legs” over the potential drop off in level of the player coming on.

Brighton yesterday for example, brought Milner on for Baleba at 1-1. That’s making the team worse in both an attacking and defensive situation. Absolutely no value at all. They went on to concede.

There’s always likely to be a drop off if you replace a first choice starter with a replacement but some of the decisions are wildly detrimental and unnecessary. 

[StocksArmy]

The fall off in Gibson's performances is a major concern. Yesterday he even kicked the floor instead of the ball at one point. On his day though....

I thought he was a complete disgrace yesterday. Watching players just run past him time and again. Pretty sure Hurst was shipped out for similar misdemeanours.
The moment you mentioned, in the South East corner? We had 6 or 7 players busting a gut to get in the box.
He honestly can go for me, he’s not what we need in this battle.

He’s McCanns love child. If I was Middleton I’d have had my transfer request on his desk the moment my name wasn’t on the team sheet against Southampton. How can you get a goal and man of the match performance in the previous game to being dropped for the foreseeable and not even being brought on in the last 2? What’s the story with this? The question needs putting to McCann and the answer not be swerved.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

It's definitely  a concern about our mental resilience and its obvious why we find ourselves in the bottom four. It's human nature when confidence becomes frail, yet, in recent times the players have done well to try and improve things when under pressure. Performances have improved and we'd take the first 60 mins any day of the week.

I think we all were thinking we need a third goal and thankfully we got it, and nearly added to it straight away.

However, at this point there was a shift in mentality that particularly affected our back line, we suddenly dropped deeper conceding territory and not following play up the field as vigorously as before. Bails and McGrath (who had a case for mom up to that point) got disjointed.  Did they get lazy?

We then concede but immediately get a great chance with Broadbent to make it 4-1.

At this point, me and the mates are saying no need to change anything just yet. Let's consolidate, carry on doing what we were doing, for at least another 10 mins.

But no, McCann opted to make those subs, as if they were pre planned at that time no matter what. I don't think it's necessarily who he subbed but the timing that was very questionable. When seeds of doubt have been planted in our back line,  the players just need a kick up the bum rather than being disrupted further.

We didn't regroup sufficiently at the back though and you have to look at our organisation at the back that allows their second goal.

We have another immediate chance to make it 4-2 with Cliftons one on one so we still clearly had goals in us, right up to the final whistle.

So yes, McCann maybe didn't read the situation well at  3-1 by not addressing the defensive shape lapse, and not consolidating to steady the ship  before considering the subs. Yes, we can understand we have another game Tuesday but for the sake of 10 mins, we're the subs that necessary???

[drfchound]

I’m in the same corner as people who are questioning the timing of the substitutes coming on.
We were looking so threatening with our fluid attacking play and looked very likely to add a fourth goal.
I understand the possible need to take the Orient game on Tuesday into consideration but would another ten minutes on the pitch really have taken too much out of the players who went off.
Hacks is always likely to produce something different and Wigan must have been delighted when he went off.
Clifton was having another of his good days and looking likely to score again.
Mols looked miffed when he was hooked as he was on fire and was the biggest threat.
Our thoughts were that we should have given the starters at least another ten minutes, put  another goal away and put it beyond a comeback by Wigan and then think about the Orient game.
In the end I was kind of happy that we didn’t end up with a 4-3 loss because it had that feeling about it.

[StocksArmy]

Villa have just scored a 2nd at Newcastle, before the game kicks back off Emery takes off Onana and replaces him with Lindelof.