Government defecit reduction

[BillyStubbsTears]

Just heard the first news about the Govt's £6billion cuts. Apparently ministers will no longer be able to use First Class rail.

Given the difficulty in actually finding a seat in 2nd Class, I look forward to finding George Osbourne sat in a puddle of piss outside the shitter on a train.

Seriously, mind, this is utterly 'kin stupid. Saving fifty quid on a train ticket is a waste of money if it means that a minister spends a three hour journey with sat next to a human beatbox when they should be sorting out vital Government business. It's the worst kind of populist politics - appeal to prejudices, save peanuts and actually make Government worse and LESS cost effective.

[Dagenham Rover]

In the mid 70's I was travelling back to Barracks  got on the Kings X train, got a seat (novelty I know) only to find Harold Wilson sat opposite me. The train was some 4 hours late after getting stuck outside Grantham as we got into London he leaned over and said \"If your C.O. gives you any grief tell rthe bugger to ring me\"
Don't know to this day wether the C.O. believed me or rang him up  B)

[Thinwhiteduke]

To be honest BST - Im more interested in the axing of the Child Trust Fund Scheme, which seems to be of little concern to a significant proportion of the British population.

Now to a degree, it doesnt affect me, my kids both have the Trust funds set up. I just want to know how this Government handle the Funds that responsible parents have set up (unbelieveably a quarter of eligible parents NEVER set up a fund for their kids, despite being given either £250 or £500 by the previous regime to do so).

Will they either honour those existing Trust Funds(because we additionally pay £50 a month for each of our two children into said scheme), or just pay back the money thats already in the system. Either way Im easy.

As for the First Class Rail issue - I agree, its a drop in the ocean, but any saving is a saving, and the Ministers can always 'upgrade' out of their own pockets if they so want, therefore avoiding siiting with us 'great unwashed'  

[River Don]

To be honest BST they get paid enough to be able to put their hands in their pockets if they want to upgrade to first class. It's not like they HAVE to travel with the great unwashed.

[BillyStubbsTears]

River Don wrote:

To be honest BST they get paid enough to be able to put their hands in their pockets if they want to upgrade to first class. It's not like they HAVE to travel with the great unwashed.

Totally missing the point. It's not about some kind of perk, or about avoid 'common people'.  It's about being able to work efficiently. It's similar to Davies making a big deal about cutting out the Mayor's car. I don't want people who are making decisions about 10s of millions of pounds of public money to wait fir the bus, or stand on trains. I want them to be able to work effectively.

Personally, I consider travel time to be work time. I frequently buy first class rail tickets through my company to be able to work sensibly and efficiently when I am travelling. Because it us a cost-effective decision to make. And that is just for a small company with a turnover of well under £1million. It is utterly barmy to prevent senior public officials and in particular, ministers from doing similar things.

[River Don]

I've been on the Hull train and seen Austin Mitchell and a couple of others who given the conversation I assume were MPs in the first class section, knocking back the vino and laughing raucously. Vital work I'm sure.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

I'm all for it.  They can pay the upgrade if they so wish.  I've never had problems doing work in standard class so why should they?  If they book a seat like everyone else (they could use the quiet carriage and the bookings even allow a table to be booked) then I fail to see what the issue is.  It's not like they get paid minimum wage is it?

Many of us in the real world get no travel expenses at all, so they're lucky.

AS for uni funding being cut, well the choice of universities cutting places because of this would be ridiculous.  Most of my lecture theatres are half full at best half the time, uni housing here has lots of empty rooms and my uni wastes money on a lot of things it probably should not.  For example I know someone who got given £40 by the uni to have a picnic out of the communities fund.  What a farce that is, it really is not needed and should be saved.  My uni loses money but that's not through teaching, it's the research side that leaks the money that's for sure.

[Keith Myath]

They could do what we do...... i.e. plan their day better so they don't use the Train as an office and actually get all their shit together before they leave through the front door (like me).

My travel expenses reap me next to f**k all, i have to travel in a week what most will do in a month, why should they be any different, what other proffession gives you free 1st class travel??? Non.

Maybe some Harsh realities for these pampered pillocks will help them see the bigger picture and give them the drive to actually do something about it!

[Surrey Rover]

BillyStubbsTears wrote:

 I don't want people who are making decisions about 10s of millions of pounds of public money to wait fir the bus, or stand on trains. I want them to be able to work effectively.

Clearly (given the current state of the finances) govenment ministers previous access to first class rail travel hasn't really proved to be an asset has it?

[RoversDave]

From personal knowledge, I would expect that all Local Authority CX's travel First Class and so does anyone who goes with them. Plus they are probably on three times the basic pay of an MP

[Barmby Rover]

big fat yorkshire pudding wrote:

I'm all for it.  They can pay the upgrade if they so wish.  I've never had problems doing work in standard class so why should they?  If they book a seat like everyone else (they could use the quiet carriage and the bookings even allow a table to be booked) then I fail to see what the issue is.  It's not like they get paid minimum wage is it?

Many of us in the real world get no travel expenses at all, so they're lucky.

AS for uni funding being cut, well the choice of universities cutting places because of this would be ridiculous.  Most of my lecture theatres are half full at best half the time, uni housing here has lots of empty rooms and my uni wastes money on a lot of things it probably should not.  For example I know someone who got given £40 by the uni to have a picnic out of the communities fund.  What a farce that is, it really is not needed and should be saved.  My uni loses money but that's not through teaching, it's the research side that leaks the money that's for sure.

[/b]

You mean the research that feeds into our industry to keep us all in jobs as technology etc gets incresingly complicated? All research is good because it increases human understanding, even if it seems to benefit no one at the time. Of course incresing the totla of accountants by getting more through the education system really increases the productivity of our country? Maybe it does, and just a little personal dig BFYP, but what we do as individuals does not really count, it is what the whole does that is more important, and we do not always see the rlevance of what is happening  if we don't know all the facts, that's the point.
Train fares seem to be a drop in the ocean, and it is window dressing, it always amazes me how we get the big banner headlines for dole scroungers etc but we never chase the tax dodgers in the same way, or we get the furore about pubs creating social problems, but don't stop supermarkets selling cheap alcohol. I wonder why?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Pudding. A couple of points.

1) A student can do coursework in a crowded second class train carriage, therefore a senior civil servant/minister should do the same  regardless of the consequent effect on decisions affecting the economy, national security etc. Discuss.

2) You clearly do not understand university finances. There is not a single one of the top 30 universities in the country that would be remotely financially viable without research income, both direct (through research grants) and indirect (through consequent commercialisation, spin-out companies and patents). Furthermore, (at the top universities at least) it is the possibility to work on challenging and world leading research that attracts the highest quality academics. Stop research and you would end up with third rate teachers teaching classes twice the size that they currently do.

PS. When I was a student 25 years back, I couldn't afford train fares. It was National Express coaches for me. Maybe your generation hasn't got it so bad after all eh?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Surrey Rover wrote:

BillyStubbsTears wrote:

 I don't want people who are making decisions about 10s of millions of pounds of public money to wait fir the bus, or stand on trains. I want them to be able to work effectively.

Clearly (given the current state of the finances) govenment ministers previous access to first class rail travel hasn't really proved to be an asset has it?

I refer you to my previous messages on related points.

Historians will note three big things about this economic crisis.

The scale of the defecit is one of those, but only one. It's the one we have to deal with now, because the other two have already been addressed (and apparently forgotten about).

The other two are the fact that we still have a functioning world banking system at all, and that (given the severity of the world economic collapse) British unemployment gas been remarkably low.

In other words, the UK politicians that we rush to stick the boot into figured out how to save the world banking system, and engineered an economy that was remarkably resilient to even a 7% drop in GDP.

We COULD have done what Maggie did in 1980, which is to run a very low defecit in the teeth of a recession. If you were down in Surrey by then, you probably missed the effect that decision had. My dad worked at Mecborough dole office in them days. The signing on rate hit 30%. It would be again now if we had followed Osbourne's advice two years ago to cut public spending savagely just as the private sector was collapsing.

It's about choices. There are different ways to address a given problem. We're now going to see the Tories' way, which has always been to hit the poorest and cosset the better off.  Yesterday was a good example. Why start by cutting Child Trust Funds which, however imperfect, were aimed at helping poorer families develop the habit if saving for their kids' futures. Why not cut the tax perks on higher earners who can save 40% tax on investments for THEIR kids? Cutting back on those tax perks would have saved a similar amount to scrapping the CTF. But it would have been a different section if society paying for it.

As I say, priorities.

[Snods Shinpad 2]

The whole class system on trains is an ancient relic that should have been scrapped a long time ago anyway.  Here's a radical idea. How about the facilities being of a decent enough standard for everyone to be able to travel in comfort and be able to work if they want, rather than this antiquated system of the well off being treated better than the great unwashed.

I'm with Keith on this. The more politicians are exposed to the realities of their policies the better.